Edward Norton knows the importance of slowing things down. While many entertainers feel the need to move immediately from project to project, Edward has learned from his peers, his idols, and his own experience that sometimes it’s all about what you don’t do. Edward talks with Marc about the lessons he learned from working with David Fincher and Milos Forman, the inspiration he takes from David Bowie and Bob Dylan, and the stories behind American History X and The Incredible Hulk. Edward also explains what inspired him to write, direct and star in a very unique adaptation of Motherless Brooklyn. This episode is sponsored by the Adult Swim Podcast, Watchmen on HBO, Stamps.com, and The RealReal.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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all right! Let's do this! How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the fuck Nix what's happening? I mark Mare- and this is my podcast- welcome to it. How's it going Edward Norton, Edward Norton is on the show today
Edward Norton got a new new new movie. Coming out. It's got. A mother was Brooklyn, comes out
first, it was good to talk to him intends guy. How is everybody you, ok
from San Francisco, I made the drive
on Friday. Thinking that I would have a man
the data of nice drive and go up the coast. Maybe so
for luncheon big sir may be taken in go back,
get my mind to the times right thought that that
your phone Northern California Coast was the answer to all the problems with the poetic beauty. Navy stop at Essen and do some time travel may be an increase
your group were flotation tank of some kind, but did I do that? I did not. I didn't,
do any of that. I took the fight
straight back to the five straight down the five, the world's most heinous drive it makes five hours seem like nine, the cat
really taken too long and arduous worry that enough anything was on fire. The road obese blocked
by just took the straight shot by had big plans nonetheless,
there's something about that city, and I did have some. I did say I had some goes to have to reckon with
I think I did. I think I did folks
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as we had into this week. I do want to help not help
but I want to bring attention to a couple of
pals a couple,
a thousand doing shit. If I could,
whose open for me, if you guys he's been on this, show before the very funny guy
and a lot of his act. If you ve seen him or her to mining pr, a lot of his act revolved around his father's battle. With Alzheimer's.
and if it was a lot of wood, Christmas sort of involve with in dealing with his father and and sort of the humour that could be found in that you know without making fun of his father, obviously, but
the past few years, he's just been pouring his heart and soul into a recording this
scattered, and it's really about his father and his father's past. You know
up through moving from Cuba, you're being a labour camp in Cuba year. Transition into the states answer
that haunted his old man, you interspersed with his with Chris relationship with him through his disease, but you know it's
it's quite a work up its passion project and its deep and it's funny and it's moving it said produced by W. Am I see and you can get it I imagine we can give every where you can get podcast. It's called
it's my buddy Chris Garcia, now my other by Dean Del RE, who you know he's just as five hundredth episode and got Paul Stanley on their part.
guitars dimly singer kissed, indeed very excited. So there's a couple.
I'd gas Rex recommending Nay not paid plugs just friends, Chris, Garcia, scattered podcast and
Dean Del raise five hundredth with Paul Stanley
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Trip to the trip to San Francisco get up,
up there now. I don't know how I lived there for a few years, a couple years,
I talk to you about it before I went up there,
Those posters are yet that's primary reason. I drove up day swept the posters
the square size
they're like me in lieu shorts, who did a great job opening for me in some people work at the theatre, the venue, I'm just saying: there's gotta sticking
credit cards in the machine do and the numbers I you know I just haven't done that a while, but I had a very long line of people
came up literally added a ninety eight posters. I brought just five posters short.
A couple hundred people were waiting online at me
me and take pictures and by the posters, but we moved on them and I cut a deal with those last five people.
To tell you what it is. I want anyone to get jealous by death. I work some out with them because they were waiting around for like a fuckin hour and I work some hours great meeting other people. It was a great show in San Francisco the Masonic with sweet. It wasn't scary to me this is the sector,
praetorian than I
worked out and again I believe I transcended you usually. I think there is a masonic ritual that they need to that needs to happen in the masonic space at some time. During the
spaces history would
I fulfilled the last I was there. I came in second in the boy
comedy competition. Thus you know sort of
playing out. The failing of the Jew ceremony
which is a masonic secret. Masonic right.
Ritual that was
the bug it used to be something they would your kind of, though they would bring a Jew in by they
do that now, and they just hope it happens. Coincidentally, so I actually serve this purpose. Back
ninety three. So the failings of the Jew ritual,
dine in this space was thus
sort of initiated? Now,
I needed to transcend that. I had the order wrong of who won in who lost with that ninety three competition
Carlos how's, your argues. First, I was second Stephen, be was third recurrence, was for
Fourth pad in Oswald, was fifth
so I went in there knowing that I had a trance and I to transcend a few things. That city is always been kind of a haunting mind fuck. For me, but not in the same way, the Boston was just more of it in a different way: men a loop, your way by tat, I went in there for the masonic fearless kick.
We would have. We all talk like our president. Would that be unbearable. I'm not gonna begrudging while ye I will ya. I am glad that the? U S military did their job and over a period of time or is able to track down and kill. Abu Bachar, all
bag daddy, the one of the leaders of ice is one of the leaders of the caliphate they got in there, and I imagine I am glad they were still there because a couple weeks ago, this president wanted to date wasn't taken all the troops, atta, syria- and I imagine that the Kurds probably did allow the groundwork for this attack and, as I guess will hear about that, perhaps remember the Kurds who we abandoned, because it is president. Why guess he looked out this time on the timing?
then it's good, I'm glad
a guy's dead, but the way
President Trump takes credit. I did the fact of people still enjoy or or look up to him or her look to him
for leadership. What if everyone talked like him? How can people not see you?
you know how annoying and embarrassing and fucking horrifically in secure this fucker is, I just don't get it? Are you gonna go and talk about? My set in,
like our president, is that we should be able to work up to the president and and motto ourselves after that after him, and I hope that a lot of Americans are doing that hope. Their children are doing that. So I'm gonna do that now. So I
formed in San Francisco. I had probably the best said ever
just for me, but I think,
economic that has ever performed anywhere. I think it was really the best.
I am really
the best comic that ever lived and I'm not I'm not even making this up. I- and this is just the truth- that too,
try the best set of comedy ever performed any wherever there's been many set before. There's been plenty of very funny people, Richard prior your bill, hedge, all these people by day there's no one doing it is good. Is me at this point in time? How
I can annoying, as is that, would have
Will you knew in real life? Talk like that cheap,
is so, but
to be honest with you. I did have the best set of comedy ever
in San Francisco die just want to put that out their research perfect,
perfect set. It was good
good and all the people were great and I was happy to see everybody around
dimension at Edward Norton is here dimension it so
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drove back down from
just go on Sunday yesterday and me
It was just like there's smoke in Dutch
hanging over. All of it may judge
I've been through that cow stinky part just a flat. Five
and I dont know what came over me and that's it sort of a guy. I had another fuck it, but you
after you, man
I had to do it. I was driving down from San Francisco and I went to in and out burger had a double double fries. You know
I posted a picture of it on Instagram? Could I do that? Sometimes we broke fuck, it's not that it's waken, those fry sockets Ike inside in serious Gore, may it's in and out it's always the same. It's fucking nails it. It was good and
feel bad about it, but it was going to feed the fries fast enough, their good and now,
square Mile ketchup
and so I did that
pretty exciting in them. For some reason, I stopped at Mcdonald's, gotTA, Mcdonald's, coffee and this. This all happened today, chasm recording this on Sunday and right now,
fuckin can it
whacked out of my brain on fast food products. Yes, yes, I am
I work? Let's get into this and it's alright, I'm ok, you're, ok and we are right.
Edward Norton we talked and we talked about his but he's got this new movie mother was broken, which comes out there this Friday November,
Friday November first
and you know we did it. You know I was excited to meet him. He sat down and we just
started going, and this is that dear me, are you? Are you gonna? Do you know me? I hear my gravel,
You do not my gravelly affectation. I've had Mcnulty in here.
We are embarking on hand, we're on drier exam
it is gone, it has gone, it has gone beyond self parity and into actual life span. Yeah it ours, brace, read its leg, did you,
What am I did on, which movie I work
the motto movie that then he busted his knee on
and I had to drop out of a really
and so we got a much more? We got a much more rational and seen actor in John Boy. What movie was as to its New York CUP from cold pride and glory when you work with those guys there don't like? Do you see yourself as part of some sort of
Film tradition, anyone you work with multi. Does it affect you dear? Are you like that Mcnulty or do you not register it? It's funny. You said that cause. I I
to have this conversation with full of men who
with my friend, we came up in New York together, you know starting theatre companies and an end
I remember one time saying to him like d:
get the sensation that we're just really square
compared to these guys that these guys that we're like kind alike,
this nerds right, who kind of came up in God and an effective being cool in one way or another right. But the tree
his these guys are just a thin, tickly, weird, a shit and and in a way that we are just not, and he said I feel like. I I think about that. All the time really. We have both done things with the Neuro here and we had both
and things with Like Harvey Cartel right and you know, and I think
Bob and an owl patina wearing Robert Duvall Right and Nick Industries
a lot of em
they either really
took too many drugs and there's like a residual effect or joking aside
I have I do have. Is
he says that, like the first chance,
creation of them of american Film actors post
Brando. I think it is very hard for people today. What happened
The people like Brando is that it gets reduced into a really small narrative, ran and people end up
the end up losing an orphan.
A sense of what the scale of the impact of something was in the context of that money.
Right, and I think that if you
anyone who was young when he hit the
screen. It wasn't
like a new cool star, it was such a seismic. It was.
Before and after a moment for American Michael mattering car right and our youth you're young married, it was like that
that is the God had. That is what we
spire, while the one year, but also also the thing, is again, it gets
like Brando in the tank top and Stanley, what s right, yeah, yeah, but but but Brando
this incredible he had such a feminine within it
ask your looks like a Roman. He was so things here, but he has this kind of weird marble. Mouthed sensitivity same within come requests to a little right. Little bed yeah, I dont for me.
He Montgomery, Clifton James Dean, and these were like nickel anti brand, where I really don't think they were like anywhere
a class of the caravan,
deeply strange poetic. You writing surely had, but I think that if you talk to like Nicholson,
near Merrill Street.
And the people who came in the next wave, especially the men here it was
all about him. He he was like this enormous ground,
additional thing and all the
people who had never seen themselves as us
even aspiring to be within that all
people went out of non traditional kind of pathways into this now
new idea of a naturalistic. You know
these rights and I think, like the greatest generation
Generation of american film actors came
wait because of Brando, and it happened right at that moment of the counter,
culture, and so you got like Jack,
the Chino, India and Morgan Freeman Arrival and on and on and on and on, but I
they were very different sort of people than the people who kind of
then the theatre in high school and come up, you know come up to bring it back around here. You know me I like I am, and so
I always, but they were always. I mean like Brando to you, don't get a sense it that
you're you're a little younger than me, but like the idea that you know you did Highschool Theatre,
the idea that you know you did Highschool theatre in any kind of pursue theatre in New York and do whatever that whole thing is
post brand of that a little bit of theirs yeah. A little bit I mean don't forget like his mother, was an actress in his sister was too in Nebraska yeah and he could have all of them. He followed them to New York kind of further
teenage bohemian dream of of just of being,
an artist right. He didn't know where I highly right right. He told me
What city was
he was never happier than when he was sellen lemonade and in washing square park. He told you that yeah he were he worked. You know he played bongos with his friends. He I think,
happened. Him had in a way was a kind of a tragedy for for him.
Some dimensions cause he. He was a person who, like deep
We deeply loved his anonymity via an end and the experience of being able to be a kind of a wandering bohemian beyond all that evaporated by the time, use twenty five years old,
gone gone leg and and- and
and he had a deep such
conflict about that that he was it
created a negative love. Hate relationship with the work itself
I mean it feels like you kind of- must have experienced a bit of that to you sort of
that going in your coming
as quickly as you did that this would be a rip you apart publicly that you would be denied a public life.
If you weren't careful yeah yeah, I think I think
But you know in a funny way by the time we all got into those experiences.
Honestly, I think there was more wisdom about it. I think you're more bribe. There were more people to convey to you be careful.
Yeah and aspects of it and to be totally honest, like they were poor stars to look to the.
They didn't have back then, like, I think
when the other figures Dillon,
like Brando, there's really is before Dylan after Yonah. Wasn't there wasn't
that kind of Zeit gazed variety generation for him here, but every I go back and watch Scorsese doc. You know the note,
correction home, one yea every couple years, just because it so
it's so amazing and inspiring to me to see a guy at twenty,
twenty one years old facing this
wall of reporters
putting all this shit on him. You're the voice you generation and he's just go and other than I can really to man. You know and they're saying what does it mean unpack it for us and he goes out. I wrote it. I dont know what it means. What do you think it means, but for a twenty Eightth really stop and think about the experience
that we ve all gone through and it's only intensified in the modern world of social
the impact. Isn't everything quick bait yet the war. But the expectation is that things can
only be enhanced by
talking more about them today and there's this kid.
Twenty years old. Twenty one years own with the world
adulation at him and he has that sense. The density
at that age to not
be skeptical to know that if I
let you inside it, you will ruin it. I will be ruined and
you think I'm trying to do gets destroyed by
answering your fucking question and that's it
it's incredible it actually, every time I watched it
kind of amazes
and moves me, because when you look like John Lennon later right, right, going back
Cursing the chaise stadium concert in just playing the keyboard with his elbows cause. No, he knows no one can hear right and dissent we're never play in live again like it lay I'd,
even then it took him a wilder realise like this.
Gonna ruin our lives and they, by the way they break up the Beatles over there. Like.
We want to have lives. We wanted but Dylan sort of maintains that disposition today he maintains a sort of mystery mystique.
Around how engages with the press on with the public. Absolutely at an I love that he's it turn.
He said I ll talk
out the musicians I love around about anything, but I'm not gonna unpack
What I'm doing, however, I do
think what incredible about that doctor?
you look at the new one. Did you like that moment in the new doc, where he gets out wrongly Andrea, actually part of he performs if the first show and the guy the camera goes? How do you feel any turns around us about what I know? It's it's just the best and
What I think is a man,
using in these things Scorsese made about him, are that sir,
Now he has gotten him now.
As a man in his seventy easier to say,
if you really watch it he'll? He says in the first when he goes look
was looking to what was going on around me and I was interested in what he gets museum and I took it and rain
to that. But I wasn't gonna talk about that. Were you he Lily says yeah yeah I constructed Azure yeah, it was the conscious tat was a character, but
I'm gonna blowing a break it down for their time and what I love about. That is.
He does a little enrolling thunder- think Joe, he says: hey Man
we ve been singing? I e basically says we were singing others kumbaya shit, but we had very Norman Watergate and it was like we better now
still shut up rhino either to play, and that that one bit
at film were heaped playing hard rain like Tom York.
I were talking about it when we were working on the music of this film
I didn't even really ever make Tom for above
Dylan Fan bright. I m really know they wasn't but
he Lily said. That's the one most punk rock things. I've ever seen
Laying taking those you know those folk song, the up
and basically going no man like the decision.
Working make a menace, we gotta be
What's going on here. It's it's incredible,
There are so few and I think Scorsese he has really caught. Something
she's that this guy
always was focused on
What do I need to do that keeps me
edge about the whole thing and feeling like I'm out there on the
bright white line actually doing something. No matter what anybody says, no matter whether they get it now, you know he was such a lake. I'm going
we're here. Once you get caught,
with what I'm doing I'm going over here and you're gonna screaming yelling go, don't plugin play electric here, but you know
Don't you like yours, go fuck yourself. If you don't come, if you know
come now. You're gonna come later. We enter Europe, you'll get it later here, but the confidence,
the very young person today.
Weekly! Go! If you get this
if you get it now, I really don't that's not what I'm here for right, I'm here to do it it's. Why he's authentic worthy
the of light? The mystique did you
It is in this assessment you have as younger person. Errors is something you're looking at over. I came I mean I I
where these. What were these lessons for you yeah yeah, and I thought I mean
but there were people there, there's other people that work were
now effect on you who you realize are.
Either by design or because it there.
Wisely reticent about
ruining the very bubble of like
in their creating. By going,
therein blather ring or not having the wrong way, Jonesy Riley in here the other, Gerhard Schmid. You know he agreed to do it and he said-
down any goes. I don't want
talk about myself. I want to ruin my mystique
and thank God we know each clown painting in my house, whose we talk about clowns for twenty minutes, but eventually he started talking to each other. I think, but but let's be clear, like doing did a radio show in a way which is a great. He did it's one of the great news
Carla, Jean things you know and all those rifts like. We can talk about coffee, Joe here now and black. You know all that shirt stuff you go it's gonna like is.
I augur fee, which is one of the weirdest. You know that
it's incredible, but he doesn't ruin anything.
Because what he does he go. Hey, there's a lot we can
through Breslau weaken riff about me, I'm common ground in and there's a lot that I want to share the right, but think about how much value that has to have, because what you love out his own work. He goes highlighted
you don't know about my marriage and earlier about the shit. Let's talk about great songs, about mothers, Yoda ain't and you go ego just
These also, you sort of this weird, almost vaudevillian curator of things to like he has this new persona, the guy that just gonna die on the road. You know
in his western jacket. Yes,
the kind of impressive in a weird way. You just gonna,
he doesn't have to do it
and he needs to do it yeah, I
to close the highwayman. I I respect the
Yeah too, that is people who are not afraid
and there are very few to go hey. You know what I've done. This gig I've done my thing, yeah
I'm not tapped into the main vain ray what people needing right now and also our
I just want to be a human being. I want to go back to quiet
whatever it is, I make furniture. I wanna like you, you respect them
lot. I think I've well I'd. I think it's very, I think the dignified and whether you know like what ten assumes got the bitch goddess of success.
Very, very hard for people to say
Do I want to die? Having done,
the same, a version of the same thing over and over now, some people are real, like trade craft.
Like right again. Is it maybe does like one Diane Rona as thing I, I wrestle. I do
wait till the kind,
restorative sensation of just not doing
I'm staying where I live. Respect great when I hear somebody that I know or somewhere like a who lives in comedy or whatever and show business, and I am assuming awhile and
gotten out somehow I am like
Congratulations, you, God, damn it good for you. I talked about
stern. Do in there. He would sit right there to honour what that means to you, I went to first is great yeah. He's
completely out of his mind, an absolutely out of my life
We have memory that my great memory, but out of his mind, remembers everything
but a challenge that I think you remember, I think nitrates routes will be remembered with vivid detail and extremely narrow set of experiences and it actually, there was enormous blank space.
From decades really status,
for once. I ve me once did didn't remember
Large portions of the twenty years from sixty five, eighty five like it and he didn't literally, have any memory of of
Please get lost yet if you don't do drugs, I don't know I mean the daring. You awesome things I don't I don't know
that's sensation. Yet now, let's go get point nickel,
during said about Nicholson that year he just is basically retired, because his reasoning is
he doesn't want to do anything if it's not as
but are better than what he's done before. That's reasonable yeah right yeah. I mean I don't too weird reft, but
I was really struck by this thing I heard the Dalai Lama say that he he's got that
working for the ideas he's fine
he too, but I, but I saw something where someone said selfishly. What are you? What are you still
hope for yourself the remainder of your life, and he said he said I hope
the courage to
they crawl into a cave and be a monk again
and, like my wounds for a period before I die- and I was like that's incredible for
him? No for someone to say.
I need time to go
to being like knee, humble or
and actually with myself and do not have the burden of this
This thing that I and other people were: how are you with that would being with yourself
are you any good at it?
I love it at the longer. I do it the better rife.
The more the other voices slip away in the dopamine hit. That, like comes from some sort of
well shit, we're after me. I know about the affirmations of the work here that the work is always fun. I always find the work great everything else that comes around it.
Messes with your head, and you got a really
really work at keeping
your head and I like fixated on the target that had substance or who you
our two royal or even for the work layer Hugo widen
we do this. Why did I go at this year and when whatever were doing, can we retain the focus on the path to
achieving what we were trying to achieve with it in terms of what it does for people
watching it. Not what anybody says about it, not what gets
conferred on it in the short term. Not any of these are his matrix of agendas
noise and publicity yeah, and you can't be immune to you can be the toughest sort of you know.
Shit. I dont believe that anybody's autumn,
the key immune
the two like that, just a constant chorus of voice
to try to get you to pay attention. Oh my god, you worse now yet to how things are performing,
outside the the direct
conversation you are trying to have through what you did
if people right area- and I think like I have to think a lot about,
Equally, if I looking go well, here's thing
they did. That there's no question
we hit the target of what we were going for here for our tried for arch people,
people are age, our friends, our experience, things it connect area
Actually many of them failed
on many of the other metrics that other people are. We talking
specifically we might give you like, like you, ve, taken, would like fight club area, for which I would say, looking
and where it sits. Yet it went right on through.
The people, we made it for you and it says what we wanted it to say great movie, and it was about the things we wanted it to be about, but it was
huge flop, initially
the box office very, very
Did you like the movie? I love
I was overwhelmed by I. I love the experience of doing it as profoundly is anything. I've worked on Yahoo. I've been looking and had some really good experiences, but
also, I remember you're going to something with bread and the gang
I am. I remember him, give me this funny looking gone. He said
hell. You think this is gonna go and I said
He's can go very badly and he said I
you two, let's get high and he
and he had a joint. We always do down here and and
Never we went to this thing. It some film festival,
and people booted
food and on
Maize Anna and peoples and people walked out, and we
we sat in the back and we want
and there was all this negative feelings
in IRAN and in it
and he turned to me in the dark and he goes that's the best movie on ever gonna be in, and I said I think so too, like we were hugging each other, a kind of like WP. We were so we were really Valorously only saw it in an audience. It was yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
And it was kind of like straight out movie itself. It was like we're failing
we're we're not men. Will I grow like all the other. Things are happening and we were kind of like a yet enjoying it connected mom, but I think, but I think that many many many of the things all of us would point to is
they have mattered to us here that I saw something once of all the critics who panned raging bull and then ten years later put it on their best of the right. I saw that Libya and you just want alike fuck. You put your middle finger again. Just go like you,
again you, let's go back to like you when you're sitting there with the would fill up back in the day,
I mean what were your goals? Yeah me wet? How did you come to New York yet to start to do this,
an end. You know like you're like because he's he was another.
Sensitive amazing artist that threat
buckled under the weight of something,
but what were you guys in a what
dreams. At that time, just do theatre any. What we really think I mean yeah. I think a lot
think. Come if you went to New York in that,
period. I think there was there was still in the lure of what years
Back in the early nineties, where'd you come from,
you want a yellow into Gallager Anna ICE good, I'm New York, all the time from the Haven T
she plays cleared. It was undergrad. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I say history in here
studies and, as you have a plan, not
I had a dim uncut.
Couldn't sensation that I wanted to go to New York for the theatre?
but I had a hard time, just sort of
owning that embracing it and I kind of went there,
what sort of a generalised sense of I want in Europe. You know I wanna be in New York with your family and do it my families
eight my parents were real lovers of the arts and General yeah. They weren't artists in any way their aficionados of everything. Oh yeah, loved, music, love, theatre, love, more
these, and so so the household was filled with Afghanistan. Yeah, that's nice! Yeah
One of my uncle's is a great musician ones. A painter and my mother taught Shakespeare in ok. You know went
took place in my father is of opera.
If, in a really theatre boffin, would you grow up New Baltimore
so is this step along the uneasy at other free museums, and he had the outer last year. It was some but
Baltimore had a we close it easy. We were closely
you know, centre stage with great regional theatre ballroom.
We had, like you, know, centre stage with great regional theatre involving high, but then DC had absolute national theatre and things like that, but it also had like there was the nine thirty club,
in DC was the great because, in the end, that era
in Baltimore really only had like nettle it didn't
like I can all music seen for it was like, is like Yankee either and like Springsteen right
the word or you were, like ladies remnant- Havana yeah right, but then there was
like MID atlantic gum. All
station called W H. Firstly, I was incredible and that at
the bread pop the clash yeah, the Indians, who had a very big breed, good, punching, bagasse, efficacy, airliner, three million- that was an island
the cousin who play me. I am in things like. I was affected by that.
It's funny Spike Jones, and I realise that I used to go she shop for being parts at this bike store.
He worked out when he was like fourteen in d, C, N, Rockville or a relay that area. Do you think you cross, Pat? We I lit when he said that he said you know I used to work like this thing and I,
melted my mind. I had this sensation of like could I have bought my shamardal cranks from spike,
well. You know, and we were both like clay afford.
Thirteen forty air easy
because, like you ignite, you don't seem like that
the fallen into the angrier zone of that world. No, he said
pretty sweet to now. Yeah like this, with ice,
I think I just felt alienated in mean hoo hoo
you know, I don't trust people who don't feel alienated. Nice girl likes basing our big effect on me, even though that wasn't like the hip thing.
People forget, though, like if you were from that ISA.
the narrative of getting out
like the narrative of getting out and
I talked to him that this one's darkness, on the edge of town such cinematic, that
I could really like filled my head with,
record here even more than a newborn run. His attaboy has really evocative ever darkness,
but darkness only. It sounds like a war movie really is hidden. Really it's like film
teens yeah. You early feel it's like film scenes of young people who taught you yeah yeah. We did when it when it was the thirtieth
really the rat
I've got to do. I did this. I interviewed him about like dark.
Yes, and we are aware of the I talked to him at his place for just a general show yeah, it's a heavy chat. Man are, you know like when you around Bruce and on what I wasn't Bruce fanatic, but the I respect Ghana of the regular, but when you around me like this is this is a weighty man.
That was why I mean I think right. I think his book is great. One of the greatest books ever written by an art
about him, his own life. I think it's,
What was surprising to me about it was how hard on him Sophia's me Jesus yeah, and I like that
No not like that. No, I think he has
with this all in that Broadway, shall we as also one song ass. He has a ever sigh. I think
It is very, very rare for some one of his stature to to have the instinct and the.
The capacity to dig that deep into what
his own metamorphosis was from pain and poverty in where come fear and an end to unpack it in a way that has value for other people, yet so that they can
continue to see themselves
in him now that, even though he's
my eyes wise in these older and he's coming to terms with his own demons and because of his stature. He sharing that in it strengthens people may be
feel less alone who were similar to him and never assume. That's right. You were like that and and by the way he says
He says it begin here. I've been
Can this kind of illusion sleight of hand thing, and we and we ve been doing this together for while I've been doing this so that we could feel these things
but now we are.
Deal with my ghosts and we're all hitting the aid, you know like it, just keeps yeah he's taking you into like
that's the amazing thing about him to a new level right right. When I talk to him, no, I am sure you know this as well as at his pipe
like persona, it is pretty smooth like you know, it's real guy man, I'm just you know. Oh yeah yeah he's got this thing, but it seems real earnest were genuine, but she's right around the corner. From that, as you know, I get to a dark, it's heavy and its,
I tell you how you gonna get into that, and I got him at a good moment, because I think
This will, ultimately, what he started to share was the other.
Balance. It he s derived between. I don't think that his public persona is disingenuous, but it's what guy
through, I agree, I think I think that his
doing the work and
themes yeah is saving his life as much light saving.
Everyone else's life. To me, that's the only way you can
If you wrote, when you were twenty five, forty years later, with the key,
in a conviction, actual right, like almost spiritual, religious conviction right. I think here
it saved my life? It continues to save my life here
and I mean it with you, therefore right and that's why people have a thing with him.
Again. It's like it's a different future pussy feel comfortable is on stage. He said:
like the only place where he can trust and feel
ok and you're, not
afraid. You know, I think, from people
I knew I knew David Bowe a bit
Her Magdalen, I'm not sure everyone we do. I knew I knew David Bowe a bit here. We lived around the corner from each other in
where New York, New York, I at least have coffee with them.
Times, and he was
incredibly valuable in a different way, but also
cause. He would sit with you like this and he would look at you
But you know Davy Jones here and just be like.
Hey yeah like like. He would talk to you as the guy just like us. He does the work right, builds the thing
He puts it out there.
And retreats back into a very healthy for I place on the whole you he was very very great. I think it saying you know,
to live in the thing it doesnt have
be a thing. You walk around in all that time. I didn't hear anything about him. You're like that's right. He didn't
He was like the king of the that you guys after and yet Shifter
absolutely the guy who was like hey. I stand for the freaks and the weirdos. Everyone outsiders by people were right.
Crying on the floor when he died, because people were like that, guy
we made it ok for a weirdo Yahoo, yeah we're do. I owe you like. No one else yeah, but then, if
he said he'd say you build it
and you can hang it on the hook and walk away from it and be yourself because some
like you do in your thing. You are who you are and
Not every actor is gonna have an effect.
Per unit. Some do ya
I think what I'm always kind of.
More and more here, I know weighing
you're taking on China like not key,
acting by remote dont prison.
The path on remote.
Control or on cruise control. We are likewise
do another movie right. You don't I mean and working less
may actually have
a double value of letting me
be mean more within a path. That's
Your interesting for completely other reasons, other endeavours, not public or other parts, your brain personal reason, personal or even just do in other types of work.
You, like the beginning sure you know what I mean. I feel like a different ceta
muscles, and then you know
Have the privilege, if you like I'm pretty little,
about this, I can't get this out of my head. This is that thing that I
Neither do I want to do more.
Or I've got some to say, go,
I can do it and it won't be lessened
because you haven't been. Aren't you
oh you're, not going out your want a year. Rivalry it'll be better. Why you like
haven't seen you in a while.
Yeah I mean I feel, like I know, you're doing again. You're you're, like we were like sentimentally, breaking out their lucida. You like I need a dose of whom were that northern gas worthy. Then I got him input and put on death snatching how ya doin nothin. I love. I love it when people, why it's a very telling thing when the real barometer, if a person comes up and that's the first
Unlike near my eye, like white, when people guy I loved you and death of energy
So you're New York and you're doing that thing, you started a theatre group to wit, sort of Yemen. My friend Gmail
created this thing called the signature
get her company that was,
a brilliant idea. He gonna, like everybody, gets retrospective exe.
Playwrights. What what if we just did a theatre company that did the body of work of a playwright that was each of its season,
and he enlisted great play
it's really early on, because nobody treated them that way right. Nobody said
What are you doing Edward all, be guess what will you do?
holding an and you curious what
You feel didn't get understood or downright everything, and they flocked to, and I got involved very early on as an
after the end was might like my first paying gig.
But then it will. It was such a singular and cool thing. I I sort of join that company and get to work without being and other people like yeah yeah. We owe Arthur Miller and SAM Shepherd, really Orton Foot area men and do a yo yo. We did seasons with every great american playwright, whose life
there is still an and then later gemini many
Layer, Gemini built this huge performing arts centre on forty second street, that what you
It's all right. It's three, three theatres
Bulgaria designed it and if I have been there, I'm sure you ve been there are a great little intimate any bakers. Yes, yes, you are one of our writers and resident yeah great for three,
John there, yet Riah absolutely ha. I was there, that's great! Well I mean that must have been my blog. I mean, which would give like a coincidence in time to get him
but something like that meet the same shepherd to work with them personally or an l b as well yard and foot I mean Jesus, neither the menu the Gates Marie, I mean foreigners
Kennedy would lose you daddy. Where I sat here
I did some jobs toughen in school, but I said he with a variety of people in New York. I trusted very.
Few people now thought most have were most.
Was Bessie the ones attached to legacy name acting right programmes,
getting into it. They will
tail end of someone else's legacy tried and hold onto a lighter holter personality right. They were created,
dependency between themselves and actors, not they were actually
Trajectory trying to empower actors to be professional. Trying creek create keep the cult going yet at basically the constant you're not ready right this guy Terry Schreiber was a truly he. He was like to me a great
carpenter. He would say you need
are the tools in your kid
You should know about this idea vision of how to approach the
but that won't work in ivory
and you know about this and right- I thought it was the right thought
I remember thinking at the time actually early on. I I did this film. You know my first
some from fear. But then I was in his Woody Allen.
So my do we are financing around. There was a musical yes, I always like yeah, it's like. So all we are all your sense. Memories gonna be really like a great help. Do you know when you do in my head? The ants in hair, Winston, you know means is the notion. I still think that the notion that there is an idea about acting- that's encompassing here is it's ridiculous sure is completely wait. Wait now to go from formal, feared that the musical aiming was that, like some like
when prime of your breaks and in its exciting and big- and you know everyone's lit up about you and you,
offered. Unmusical I mean
were you I come just driver and I'd think get dancing, but it wasn't. I got. I need that. I made that before open
before the first million came out. I am I made them immediately.
Horses, Larry Flint before
Maybe I came in here now, yet we were just finishing it up
It came ass. He did sort of a rush of movies
and which was wonderful, is incredible time. I I still feel-
it was very heavy but by weight,
for the reasons that become complicated people going Bob I'd so great, but more cause no
but he's bothering you nobody sandy things, but you're working
with Milos Foreman right, you know and who to me
as one of the like, probably in the pantheon of the top ten,
people in film that I would have fantasized about working.
With an I'm getting to sit at his feet like
and watch him. Do it
it me forever. At an end, it was unencumbered by bullshit. You know that no New York, no one knew you were and he was haven't
go off in work on the script them in a while
He validating me and it's not in it. Is these values landward? If, yes, then, let's let's work, let's dig in: let's do the thing on exhorted set a standard here. What, but what could be better and any thought that like this is like, because rare rarely do people work like that yeah he
he was very unique in the sense tat he had this baked in what I'll call healthy perspective, because you know you.
He lost his parents to the Gestapo leaves nine. You know he survived. The live. The war out is an orphan and then comes of age.
Here. The communist like
you know the iron curtain system has to become
an artist up and through
that navigation yeah
and then gets trapped out by the Soviets
cracking down in Prague.
Some movie in the: U S, it doesnt dwell at all, and you know he Tommy considered suicide. He said he thought I can't go home. I have
no career. I have nowhere to go here and he may cookies nest which, by the way,
nobody wonder, but they made it independently here all the studios path.
On every single studio passed on it and they spent months
putting it around a critic, Michael Douglas yeah. I am I because of what he said. Michael Douglas said, you go take a vacation. I got this
and Michael in a muscle, Dat move around to critics here until there was such a weight behind
did me: I got Dislike Lois,
he'll from arise, but again to me
here's a guy who is just like hey everything, that's great feels have
fate you every image, memory and saying to me like I was there
sounds like I don't buy that there's things about this at all,
understand and the way he
was so different from things
life and related area with Flint or yeah there that the script Amelia. What was he going for housing things? It was the way
worked so fluid and so on unstructured. He would
cross cameras, so that, if anything happened, he got it here. He would let.
Improvisation, between actors go on and on and on do you I can provide. I do yeah, but I sometimes
Where I was at the time coming from theater, I it I found it.
Of going all we're supposed to be doing,
one thing today and if we, if we
see, it happen as though a well performed play yeah. It can't possibly have been gotten and then he would
Sort of now you know I got this
little bit that little and I began to realize that he was. He was just
going clay out of a cliff right. He wasn't even remotely attempting to sculpt write anything he
He was. He had his maneater for indeed that go against everything you believe every well. It was incredible as I must talk about, like you know when
about learning the other things, his sense of the plan
the of film
amazing, he believed in casting an editing and shooting was just filling up again
I can write that he was gonna assembling,
Jeanne around later right, Adam. That was in
terribly eye. Opening
to me and you, I think you ve been
his thumbs had been nominated for, like as many as anyone his you're like that, and here he was like every
single one that I've done felt like this is a view
half baked idea or where we we're way out on a limb were failing IA everyone's telling us
prevailing, no one wants to see a movie about Mozart. No, you know I mean these things and when you
downloaded from people who have done.
Thus shit right. You're like this is like the forever stuff here, and you realize that for them, if
Not on the rails right, it's a very important thing to learn to learn
yeah, because then you just you
gonna get into the weeds on it,
thing: why do that? Has ambition you're gonna get into the weeds?
and the only way to not panic anyway.
To actually lean in is to go
this is how these go like this is. This is how these go right, like the sensation yeah. This happened. The sensation of disaster right is ready intrinsic to many of the best things, and he I may I Maginot experience out on a few movies. I mean I've. Your features like a brilliant demanding in kind of hard to did to work with in terms of takes and whatnot. Yet yes, but let's start, the thing is that
the thing that I find myself always wanting to lay call bull shit on young people. People will say you ve, read, reductive
challenging he challenges directors here, like fish,
there's challenging he's demanding it's like yeah, but
The idea that we don't like that is ridiculous,
actors know that we all did before cook. Bait click bait makes it worse, but
the manufacturing of antagonistic stores, you're
Is a load, a shit like it's like great
Things come out of people pushing each other hard, yeah and Fincher, pushes everybody heart and he's review
by everyone who worked with him for it. You are you're some funny. He I interview and we did like two and a half hours and he decided
was incomplete and he wants but isn't
but I'm not any say, like always relieved the funny I didn't say resort as budgetary. He doesn't want to takes. That's absolutely all. I use a heart ass, any says kind of proof.
Sleep extreme things together, let the he's he's the funniest.
Motherfucker I mean he's so funny and he's got vision Emmy. Nobody can do.
I had. I only had to watch to that guy's movies and go whatever he's doing to get that. I want to crawl inside in and
periods. What it is, it doesn't mean it won't be difficult and it doesn't mean that you won't say hey what about this. What about that? That's, how things that are good, get done and- and the thing is like the people
who were chasing those things when you get it done, you're like locked in for life like you, have
experience together for life, and then you- and you also have the evidence of the work when also it's like. I finish
not like exerting eager
were domination right, although he public. Oh yes, I am not be he's. Not he's he's trying to make something great. If you go for the ride and is at the end,
If your name into shaken hands your leg,
survive yeah. We did it with you. We want to help combat, yet we did it. We we didn't
fuck around it didn't come we didn't come here. You know to crews,
control again. We came here to like see. If can we do anything
trusting and when people for a card or push hard or have opinions that are about the
thin, nobody who serious goes what an
soul, because it's not that are not its it when people are making
about them or its
where it's all about friction having nuth per
for all things to the thing itself via you known
but he is noise yeah, why mean cassettes
both from what you're saying in from the guys you work within the trainees sort of got on the job with me.
Four men in an adventure
in any event what he out to a certain degree that you know,
It seems that what was certain inside of you in terms of who you respect in this going
back to actors. To is that you know we're here to do the best thing we can do and if, if
in a situation where I don't feel that's happening, you I'm going to have to step up, yeah or or
I'm just trying to reconcile whatever this reputation mandated also value being challenged. Well, it's also. It's also that there's not a lot. That gets
done that really messes with your head via in any number of ways that isn't a tricky beast.
Now and when you're doing it like finding those things, it's it's tricky its. Isn't it
It means its elusive in Europe,
you're out on limb in a creative sense, and it's almost two million
Is very hard to imagine something: that's real.
The good that wouldn't be hard.
To do why some level sure most of the pictures of fight, the vague, eight in fact, finches sent me this. He just sent me this
Some magazines quantity, the twenty year thing of it said aid is bunch pictures from the set right here here they are, we send Amelia and is looking at
and I should first of all
we're all laughing we're all just we're all laughing and all these pictures
or would be an absurd, and I I just I was going
looking at these pictures, I was filled with.
They made me laugh it made me. I was filled with a feeling of like
facts in bordering on, like longing eyes like this is just this was just is
we were like you. Ok now can go through all things get we and we were on and we recommend ambling right yeah. It's great
I think I think, there's
world theirs is filter world. That too,
stories about these things that sound
good, because they have conflict venom. It happened when we did Martinez checks, but, like
worked, I worked hand in glove with Tony K. We
running a gun in the gorilla rang. We shut that thing like
true guerrilla style and
he said that we would like almost be,
Tears at the the
struggle when we get through stuff, we're like hugging each other, and what was the struggle of the movie down the road it is. It actually had very little do with me, despite the delay to Tony, is very
passionate, artemisia, very passionate and he a great photographer to which is not being reductive. He is a he's. He shot that film shot and operated here. You know and- and he gets him inside it- I think he struggled
A lot of density of new wants that we all felt you won't get this right, like the others.
Of density to a lot of intensity allotted density.
New, wants that we all felt
you won't get this right. Leg is
saying some stuff:
and you want to make sure the balance of of the kind of this
the impact of these very negative, antagonistic ideas. Younger rage
It resolves out into
the tragedy here you needed to be for it to have a over them.
The message or healing theoretical, bright and other bounces night, and I
studies anxiety, it was important.
The work to him. You want the press
as to go on and on and on and their became these like logistic,
all right realities in the studio that when it reached a certain point, they mostly just put it.
Half on like right. This is as far as it can go
and then what I would call the performance artist of Tony came out
who has done really funny things over the over the
here's the ATA performance heart, provocative pieces and
kind of started. Turning his relationship.
With the studio, and I
that kind of, like you'd, o pulled into it by default
in a way here cause me and my friend, David David had written it. We had rewritten it in here and of our story anyway.
So I was involved in it, for I only but ultimately what he turned his like argument
the studio in this kind of a performance, our peace, any tat needed
more negative right than it was when you are in truth. They just didn't you.
And tony Tony Tony, you is a provocateur right, but if like, if
sought Tony today. I know for sure we'd run up to each other and I'm cinnamon using you fear. He knows we made something like
really amazing. Terrific again- and I know I've heard from all I know- is proud of it, and I am proud of
The way we did it together was was ball.
Out like it was, it was great, it was. It was actually great
How do you feel like in retrospect honestly and in his personal for thing, for me in?
Do you feel like you, you dodged bullet with you know not
having to be the hawk for your life. It's not like that. I I saw,
within this theme of kind of the man
accurate of of
yeah problems where the honor I dont think I
I don't know, does the boy because that would sound like I haven't you.
The view of our relieved that you're not the hawk today that not even relieved. I think we re it's what I would call a win win. You know what I mean like. I know, and I really mean it like really right. First of all, the scope real, what that character,
is. I grew up on that. I grew up on the the com
book idle, Bixby show you know I learned
Rebecca yet totally landed, Anum subscribe
You have the marble title. You loved it lawyer debate.
Is a terrific actor. Shorter van is a terrific actor. The there's me and Mark buffaloes, like one of their sex, was my generation. You know it's like that.
Be telling right
instead of like, like God, it is like
the people you care
There has a
something so like mythic in it here that
People of substance have taken.
Wax added lay a hamlet. I mean it's like you know, I mean I mean an idea that being part of that fast it clear it's like it's. I love it. I love
I love that my kids, when they would see it it's like being part of the tradition of people who have done something sure good I got in the
Lula, Terrier, and I were really trying hard.
Marvel hired me to write a version of this directive to rewrite the script. Leah did and actually wrote like a to film. They weren't ended,
whole thing yet of this merged
I argue universe that wasn't happening in a rural area there and when I went in when they came to me and said, like this I said: listen, I do it if we could take this on sort of them
Chris no one took on Batman, we re talking about that. At the time. I like long, dark and serious kissing, longer
serious and I were
in a kind of pitched too film thing of like
hope, rising and hoped Rex, like that was my idea. Was that one
the origin story. I really am
stood is kind of a person.
Able to manage hallucinatory trip we away and the idea that in the next one
he's coming into his capacity to lake, be occur,
she's dreamer and away, or we will be able to control eyes near yet how yet and that I was merely like the flicker at the end of the movie right and we had. We had things
I deeply comic. We were incorporating care
to SAM and
things that were were really deep, part of the issue of thy rat mythic story and
and Louis, and I were
He turned on by the idea not to sound like hell
about it, but have actually kind of like
I think no one did so successfully.
The dark- I go yet with a dark going into that when that
print kind of a vigilantly thing, the hawk is approached its the myth of Proteus. It's like the guy who reaches for a fire of the gods and get burned right and carries that burn
and has a moral quandary. That's why we love the bill. Bixby show cause he's he's
scape he seeking a redemption run. The curse is put on himself via an and that's,
We were really turned on by, and I think you know. Ultimately
though, initially enthused about a certain. I think there was in retrospect
There was an idea
tonality of this thing that was gonna. Maybe
all emerge and come together.
Scared people or it it. It was one,
those things I did
currency of opinion,
in a tone of direction. In
total weight of seriousness and adult complexity,
it should bear weed
urged you know I'm here. I am with
Ultimately, it wasn't it. Ultimately, they were there call and it became
More of one thing than another, not ruined, I got a lot of people really enjoy it, and there are many aspects of it in a way.
I think they were really dig it yeah and I'm glad to do. It was out
appointed yeah. I was disappointed.
Only because the aspiration I thought we'd,
been taking aim at for the little.
Or change to me and without it
throwing it under the bus where I live,
Llewelyn Terry. I thought he was like a wonderful purse
then a really good artist and area, and the truth is two degree. I
A little bit angry, it had to do their work
for who were long gone from Marvel, who had come
sold me. I felt the bill of goods
That's what we want right. That is what we want where you are saying here, that's what we want and now it wasn't which
Sometimes we ve gone. You know I wish
low, Strader about like what the depth of tolerance was for what we want to go for a ride enemies. It is there
once more Kevin Foggy here. I got him like a house on fire. I think a great guy real comic fan right over there was people running a shop.
Had time who are not comic that right who actually did not totally get lake.
What I was about, but we too,
the measure of the whole thing look. You know I had last year
I did a different kind. We have ever done it's important
great tradition. There a thing
was being engineered much larger than it itself
it will mean we are physically unawares. Like love, armies,
much money that I can't in you know resist it might, but, but
Ultimately, the right thing happened, which was not
had no negative emotions formulated, which was as I can do it you're going.
In a way in a direction and that's great and number one. I saw some stupid thing o mark in everything
park. Ruffles like one of my dearest friends in the business, is he's one of the main idea. We came up the same tanya I M is one my absolute favoured
turns out they write a pitcher against each other in our now just Pierre people, it's like this thing and it's like it's like nothing could be better than
being in the club with mark. Yes, the funniest thing. We laugh about area, he has kids, it's it's the greatest if fit with what he was wanting to do at the time.
Aunt em and by the way I pursued things that were priority for me.
Yeah I get to make bird man, I D Grant Budapest and, most importantly, I read
We focused on writing a thing
It's been in my head mothers programme and made it
the end. It was hard to make. It was hard to give the resources together. It needed my focus.
It's been two years that have been set
we started shooting it. It was five years before that, trying to get the money utterly yet and I an idea is difficult and it was,
deeply felt, and I wanted total focus like
if I could not have done the work as an actor
I couldn't, I will only be able to do bird man sure at the time, which is why the Greeks, creative
sperience of my career. You have grant and I wouldn't made my own foam. That's been passion, project mine for a long time, if a minute, so I am throw thrilled and marks had a great lake
is great and has great thing exonerate and by the way this is crazy. Thing is like
Kevin, find you, the guy who rancey that guy has, as a comic fan,
the execution on that
like vision visit its
has to be one of the most successful things
ever been pulled off in the movie business in the trade? This like integrate.
Thing like does nothing like it ever the marvel you yeah he like in terms
the following: an idea and a plan that was
True to the world of the comics and the way they all came together.
They annihilated it, I mean they ve killed it. I get that. Do you think it's a culturally good thing.
Down at an artist. It's it's it's a that's dip,
discussion, which again people can really misinterpreted thing,
fact that I am I like the fact that I might, I think you you
as a Disney shareholder anchor. You know, you're, like these guys
are doing what they were charged with doing church and its end and look. It has lots of joy in it. It has lotta a lot of the humor and off that thing, but you know I.
I have my concerns that have nothing to do with
Marvel per SE. I I
you worry about lake? Let's put
social media you know at the top, nonetheless
dangers on to me. I think
by Jones. Is movie was really? Are
to something her if people are descending
This vortex of.
Of narcissistic, sir,
narrative and fantasy
and fantasy and the fantasy.
A component of it. That I think is.
If you say so dangerous is that it's like high, fruitless
Porn syrup it's enough
makes everything tastes good, an addictive, but it
It ain't making you healthy. If I you be a healthy physical him being right, and I think that thing
turn people into passive receptors
of narrative in which the dopamine gets sort of Jack Jack Blight,
not only is nothing required
of them know, can no challenge, no provocation to no real
of questions throw raising of questions like what am I supposed to think
facing the problems the. What am I supposed to do? What is my morality, one? What? What is these things and you
You look at our country and you worry, maybe just general
they speaking, how what are we doing its creating
evaded people who don't think
supervising and drop out the sky and fixed of, but where
their view of what is heroic is actually
warmed by a sense of being pro active, being themselves
person who, as a human being with a lot of
daily battles and fucking. Problems in everything is gonna, get up
Their ass and do something about
A lot of what we are doing is not cultivating those people, you know them.
And I think that arm
Let me put it this way. This matrix of social media is to me
we ve to take them measure of of the damage being
and by the turbocharging within it, of all
Demons in our nature and also just the onslaught of information. The pummeling every day. I think if we in a wee wee like these, they were the first tv generation the up, and you look like
I remember one Nirvana was hitting and people were gone. You know why
so dour. Why so things all the baby boomers we're gonna go unlike the are. What is all this slight? What error never mind like where's, your where's, your and in annual just like pages, like just buzz right
off man like every year. We are larger in for a lot more information, alot younger than you had a lot more reason for us
This is on the up to me. I don't even think you can measure the multiple of intensity
that social media and the distortion that the intensity of that information.
Can flow, which now is highly untrustworthy to admit
By outside actors to to mess with brain
brains and to mess with people.
Sense of civic connection to each other in Ireland and the truth. Yet the truth, via the we got, we got litter leaf. Roy
Daddy scary, and unlike you, combine that with
combine that with this
amendments calling for people voting for it or yeah, and- and I think that and that that is, that is
Mary Ann and, like you, combine that with the things that I would say, deactivate people
you know, act as a near by fructose opiate?
Everyone call it it some, I do think lake. He know what the witch housekeeper Lake put this idea of people as copper top
like the plug, doesn't have you in the back your head to be gettin dangerously close to where you're being turned
to an aspect of the things that separate you
from your money.
And soon cell yeah and in many ways a pawn in these games of, like they taught the mathematical
no crowds, you know I mean, there's things that
you're part of you, your nihilism, has been mind to you
you and your anger, as as a sort of part of an ideological momentum that you might even give a shit about in my negative about it. I would even say it you ain't, you know it's your fear, it's! What's what getting mind is your fear cause all human human
beings have anxieties. The world is just an anxious place and our brain
is literally formed by
millions of years of evolution to have a very strong.
There is a strong loop, there's, a powerful loot between
the pact, the imaginative power of our minds,
the ability to concoct
You know anxiety the earlier it activates are adrenal system, it perks us up and the things that just tweak that in ways that amplify fear
an amplified. What I would call the negative reaction to fear or the
defeating reaction to fear, which is essentially
anger, enmity sense of conflict. The sense of the faceless other visa is like part of what you
should, you know, resent be afraid of whatever sure, all of that
he activating the harder thing, which is to say I am anxious, I'm afraid of a lot of things, and I got my own deep well
Struggle whatever MIA, but what is it that gets
you sort of two go. I've got
I've got reserves this stuff I can do. I can be.
A part of it, and I can I can pay it forward positively. You know I mean this is like and engage
other Punic, Adrian rival and gaiters other people in real life and try to
cultivate up, positivity and
yeah and live in the world and be an actor in the world. Emily
funny is. Is this film that I made mother was broken yeah it? It actually took me it's in
detective. You know how I, what are you you got? Syria has great took meal. It's me a while to get around in my own way to imbracing that what were
talking about was a big part of it, because the
character that I plays afflict, is afflicted and in his afflict
and he's gonna gone down into this whole of.
Of isolation and marginalization. He's not really moral person which, like most nor the detective characters, aren't there that the person who
the guy, the shadow we're like they get you into the outer world eyes under this rosy american narrative right yeah that was great about the
still no war. It is like Hey Sonny,
California the place where you go to change your life, making American dream guess what built on the theft of war,
and incest Yoda me like
whatever it is like the crime as China, yet grime under the did you hear that
Eric and story were tellin and here's what s really going on radio. So it's always, as it's always had a healthy,
don't think it is just cheap, John,
I think it's, namely the outer real, reveals the others that are in need of a mere. Usually those characters aren't aren't necessarily moralists there and allow times their anti heroes gathered a lot of times. All they are is that very american thing of going home.
And put one over me and I don't like it. You know not only them end of dying, Amelia, red memorials of dying or like Nicholson ends up like repeating what he did
the past, where each eye to help someone insured together in the worst way, and you you didn't muttering to himself as
It is possible as little as possible, like it's like the old,
bleak nihilistic lake.
I kind of like had this moment where I thought. Maybe this terrific detector,
who's been abused by so many people in isolated because they know what it was in either and I had ten rounds see the unseen here. Has
He said to himself. You know what I really don't.
I really don't give a shit about the forces of history. Leave
girl. You now leave her alone and an that's enough for me
the eight thousand interesting turn, but I, but as it got, but as I got going further than from the book. No, no the book takes place in the nineties. It's a very freely
It's a very liberated the adoption of the book interesting, but I I I stay.
a lot of what we're talking about. I was like I, I I felt
actually, that the character, the issue about the raw plays
is a moral and ethical person who's, a black woman who's in the fifties whose really a lawyer and is seen as a
it could she's fighting
No she's fighting and when he hears about his problem, she kind of says she sympathy
big, but she goes, we all got are yeah are daily battle scenery and he and she will it registers on him that she's,
she's on the lie she's on the barricades here in a way during the real figure, an end in the end, I think I realised that it. I wanted to
break away from that kind of dark.
The thing an end, because in the end you know
Have him be effected two degrees he realizes like
saw pretty monolithic and faces and big, but I'm gonna take a swing. I'm gonna ominous stick a knife in it in some way that I can
his grizzled instantly tat memorable character and I felt kind of greedy about it in a way.
In time. The character was great in this novel motherless Brooklyn, if Greece of Instant
can a memorable character and I felt kind of greedy
about it in a way I was like. That's that's five course me.
Oh sure, every area is short. I like underdog, correct, yeah, you I'm sure you Johnny, he asked
I find it very interesting y yeah, it's real, but it's also just off the wall.
Yeah, it's it's a lot of things, and yet all these powers,
axis I loved it, but I've always been interested
in what went on in New York. In the fifties, I felt that there was
your construction. Yes, it's because it interesting that thou above and character is yes, it is obviously resonates now he is sort of a trompe in character in a way.
The now does not. I think, the charter.
China is a more on the end and are you in an album of people who are actually Jean right right, but there the power Elam? Yes, yes, and then you go around. Power,
right in the middle of the Post war period of light left
However, in things happen in America on a wide as they all these guys at your device it all. These guys were in the Fox hold together in some way, or some of them went to war. Yeah yeah, I mean cause you like. You, don't see that enough about that generation actually coming home, yeah an end,
And the way that things did, you know things.
Changed a lot between the depression before the warm and what
Erika was after the war is kind of is expressed in the form. It is like.
We went from a country that was totally focused on on health,
rise out of difficulty.
To a country. That was
where power was essentially became the
currency of the realm? You know we became power
or became thou value right, and we built this military industrial com
this global present says the as a superpower end and for all of our talk. We we became the bully in some ways
You're, the one that we have you know it's like,
you, what do you? What can burns is that Vietnam, oh yeah, I'm fine bone
slowly shattering and had an idea. Did you yeah
It's that it might. My father was a veteran easily enough. That is marine and I had read.
You know, studied and read, and he was aired yeah yeah, using in sixty seven
see DMZ, but here, but the thing in that it all
the waste, all the pain, all that everything, but you go back in
beginning of that, and I thought can
illuminated in a way that is so important for people to take. In that light,
Hoochie men was reaching out
to the United States specifically and saying now that we have fought this war with. You fought the Japanese
we are you we
are you in seventeen? Seventy six. We want to be free people,
we want come out from under the yoke of european imperialists. You know count colonial em.
We are you, you are beacon, help us become
you I mean literally here. They were saying that in writing that to us they
they wanted us not like a generals. They wanted a year
leaning in to help them become more like rice right and an we saw
we power brokered away. We said to the hour pals, you know
HU. We bailed out of world WAR two
got ya, go back in and build your french colonial plantations in slave these people again, and then what
they get pissed off and feel like betrayed
to reach out to you, know people we ve,
and tat in China and the Soviet Union, and you think about it,
the magnitude of the Miss
on that. You think about the magnitude of
horrible? It is here that we sent
all these young people to lose their lives and kill
three million Vietnamese,
our country shattered lives, basically to bully and try to put down
people who came to us saying our impulse is to be you.
We want to be like Alyosha, it's it's so and that I just thought that film
everybody in America should see a foam because this
this notion that it's not like flag waving patriotism without looking at what
the delta. Where do we go? What's the delta between like
since you, you said the America were trying to be, the America were still trying
the be all and end what we're doing you can't call yourself patriot. If you don't say
we're gonna revisit these narratives an account for our Missis,
I talk to your father, but oh yeah, I mean yeah, I'm in here he was, he was thought. It was one of those things you might have
watch Vietnam's of a red and he's a historian scholar, but but I think I
he might have been
only convergence could allow gotten into like sit down in an
Ray marinate in all
anyway, but it
it's a masterpiece. I mean. Certainly I agree absolutely. I agree with my own eyes right is it can stop watch and making them always a masterpiece? It it it's. How
but she talked to you know that,
Fourthly, Vietnamese. You know- and it was tat like wordy- find some of us now
It is a mindless know. Every American should see that elderly or how did this inform owner, was working well because in the fifties yet,
New York City, which at the time it was the becoming the
The capital the world essentially was
under all the narrative of what we think led New York to become them?
Our cities is the truth of it is New York
The state were run by an authoritarian
autocrat with absolutely
and contested imperial power, who was a racist?
and who and who literally baked his racism into the infrastructure of New York, modern New York and the
the segregation of New York,
the creation of what became actual slums, the projects was a function,
Of the racist will of like one person who never held
Like the office and completely.
Overwhelmed all of the democratic institutions designed for progressive ideas to build move
word, and nobody knows this, like the people know it but very
Few people understand the degree to which, like, like you know it,
if you look at New York in the fifties, this
set the ability of the affair,
can system to hacking by the
impulse towards brutal authoritarian racist
was like on sharp display in New York.
even as the sky, was
competent as one of great public servants and a man of the people. You know I mean an
and he was literally doing things like building
great public beaches and then setting overpasses
at a level that, upon all that self was true in all true yeah, see really set out. As I said, I right when I saw a common producer. I said it's like the Chinatown for New York City. I get it.
Like it, I mean at that of that flattering.
I think, but no
the complexity. The plot, like it, you because it's you know you know I watched all movie. I was completely engaged. I was
engage with your character. I was engaged with the unfolding in the narrative. I didn't know who the bad guy wasn't feeling after so gently and
you know it's one, those kind of movies where its clear
a period, peace, it's in a war but were-
from the beginning. You right I'd pay attention there.
There's things going on yet in this is gonna really come together in a lot of different strands and it really
It helped me the whole time and then I realized tat. Now they know it's true. I must be a moron too now know the deeper history in on your weight by way. So this is really important because I found you read. I really think that sometimes critics there's this tendency and
Do you think it's an aspect of the residual effective watching
the kinds of passive experience he that we're talking about
There is an assumption that audiences are tired, jaded, not interested in.
Suffocation or complexity or narratives. Did they feel behind right right, but
the idea that an experience of a store
and that yours you're not sure
it's gone in the union. Sure your clear on exactly what is going on is in, and
An experience is is so
ridiculous. It's like the people. I think people get there.
He checked out when they are ahead of the story.
You know when you get ahead of a story. What is its weight? Turns you brain into my, should get your talking about them and I think that, but also comprehension is not the goal.
The of all great art, like Bob Dylan ain't lookin for you to come,
her hand no right what the hell sure you know, tangled up in blue means or whatever you like an end to me. If you
come away from a throw my mother's Brooklyn having drifted through an aesthetic experience and terror.
Through that carries you through it in, in the same way that, like forest Gump, takes you through right, the history of everyone,
again after the war in only mean like, if you,
I'm through it and you go. I felt empathy
he pulled on my empathy because
guy's, an underdog, and I want to support
the underdog an eye.
I have had the experience of being made
the history of New York. Did this happen to us? Was the city
The second level you kind of come away with just
an essential sense that lake
These things really happen. Is this
history of New York. Did this happen to us? Was the city
this way where national yeah, then then that to me is a success because you have provoked the question you have provoked if
believe any watch a movie and says
Did they really do that? Did they put bridges to low floor buses to keep blacks and Letty Nose off of Jones Beach, like I showed an early catholic,
Chris Rock and George Wolfgang Theatre director. Ankara's at me is that it
true, and I like it. He does that mean
it's my mind, you know it. I mean like a, and I think that that's six
as I think.
Well, you did you knew what they were, what you created to because of the period piece in the way you shots of it. It does at times feel like a man
the goal landscape,
like you looking at that old city at New York and for what it was, and he found these beautiful shot into sought so nicely in the light is so nice? And yet, when you come up on that
Authority building. Yet there is a sense of sort of like is
Is this real aid because you do create the power
that, guy that out Baldwin's character as
is being representational of of sort of will and unbridled power? Yes and the reality that power centres are not where we are
I'd like the ice. You read the obituary of one of these guys and realize lake,
We're assessing like the legacy of the Coke brothers, as they write go there
you don't great reward like
Where will you know it's like you?
If you read the obituary of one of these guys and realize lake.
Modern american conservative politics has essentially been engineering dictated by disguised
energy business, who figured out a very clear acts? Machinery for distracting you with
kinda kinds. Like social arguments.
You know how the rules you screwed you and I think it's like that.
The idea that power is not only not where you think it is in american life, but that people who
the mass that kind of power ten.
To be the ones who are also
Expressing that in
me too era in which
is that we have only really begun to fully account for and corrupt. You know, Indiana can hold to account sure right and again, like you
people going shithead,
you know how much of this are we willing to tolerate like what he is gone
about Chinatown is dead,
I challenge anyone. You things become a classic. I
Think of you wipe two persons hard drive and they watch that fell
there's nobody who watch that phone for the first time who
any idea? What's really going on a tenth of the way through the movie? Now you have no idea what's going on and if he asked a hundred people who say it's wonder, that's films.
Fifth year her. What happens they couldn't?
rate that that was the whole joke of it. Is that you he gets his nose got the snoop gets Jaska, yet you cause legal, you couldn't finding own. He that a number of people, not one in a hundred, could say
Their dumping water during the drought to drive prices down on the things that I can pick up things under the names of old people through this thing called the albacore club yet fortunes. Nobody remit!
is that they remember that EL
a corruption is that it stole its water and for
these were made and that the peace,
who doing that were also fucking, her daughters, leg literally? That is the fact that the kernel of what were taken and because to your point, that
is this monolithic romance
vision a valet. It isn t
Ella. Aesthetic me it is the dream away with the sea me snuff, going on there it and because Nicholson is,
his version of of the
guy. You note with this
great american sense of like young people's screenwriter classes,
he's got no motivation in Chinatown. He just he goes some
put something over on him. They pretended to be someone else and hired him and made him. Look like a fool. That's it he's like. I don't like being place. That's the whole
and eventually it
thing to John Houston, like how
much is enough: how much do you really fucking need? How much better can you eat and it's just to the point it for its era?
it's like saying how
much of this or are we gonna get subjected to
before we just get pissed, often enough to do something about it. That's all that really, that movie is about right, Wendy,
It allowed these coincidental that that movie heads.
At the end of the Vietnam WAR rise? Watergate is kicking off rights.
We in the funny thing is: is that even
the reaction of the Vietnam WAR, and even with your whatever social progress we ve made were were sort of
there again or we might not have ever left yeah and that's
I think to me the value of goin to the fifties. It's like saying: hey.
This is kind of intrinsic there.
Then you know
companies doesnt about the deep state it's like, but the truth is
the scariest thing in America is the way that Power centre
Chile Onan and manipulate our politics, and I
and stayed again no matter what date, despite the fact that the world is ending yet, even though their there like whether or not their evil their rights.
If we intelligent people that are willing to deny a certain
sophisticated intelligence in the name of power in capitalism, it did
This, however, gamble. Isn't it yet
it's an eyelid. It is the definition of a nihilistic burnt
you know it's like burn it all down I'll be gone? I mean it literally is: I will be gone so
this is what I've been doing this. What we ve been doing. This is what we can keep doing.
And you know there's a moment in the film where
Baldwin, who is
I gotta say I think-
It's one Alex like if I
he's a good ally, been in no doubting locked out. I mean if you like, Alec Baldwin England, Glenn rosiak grow like the hefty Lee J. The idea, you know Alex
is seize on fire and some party at home. I was riveted on riveted when I watch him, but he has that thing raise giving that speech, and he says you know he
literally says, like I look around
this room- and I don't see you out of
boys or goody goody progressives with their paralyzing ideals. I see you know the p
of my tribe, who get things done and that's the Roma
the notion that ideas and ideals
are in the way of enterprise that that right,
might is right. It knowledge right at knowledge, is something to be Poohpooh dire and digest the enterprise.
Getting things done- is
is its own value, and it's like it. This is sixty years ass.
The era of this thumb were
didn't you know
were hidden young game and it's weird it's
you kind of like how is lived. This is one what women poem he talks about, how everything is the same. The key
two hundred years thinking forward to us and that Fratricidle war. He says these things, these incredible riff, unlike
disease in the hearts of fresh subtle were in all these things. They are there.
Weighing down on me too, and their weighing down on you read in the future
and if singer, but I really do think that
difference of the age we're living in what you said.
We are in the end game, because all
all our GEO. Political and social arguments are
they end up. Looking like people who were squabbling at a dinner table, while their house
barely burned down,
top their heads, because
There is no, like you can say, like with
what the civil war and were still fighting it,
What we want, we rulers on footwear were too, and these things are still playing out there.
Communism in democracy in all the dialect
These things are working themselves out.
The environmental collapse. Doesn't
time frames a resolution. It doesnt have a snap back in a recovery that we can survive and that's in that's the by product of pure industry pure or that the without that other stuff is like you know, almost a distraction
in all this? That's why so violently amoral right now, I think it's like
something about. Like my Grandad's generation yeah, he was in the Navy in war were too, and this perceived threat
kind of a totalitarian races
ideology, rises up this this idea of not just Nazis and but but based.
They totalitarianism rise up
people say this- is like an authentic threat to
The idea of a humanist like world and work like people
all of the world rise up and like give their lives to
you know I mean I think
that there is a moral equivalence to the people. Now
doing the violence to the idea,
the idea of Europe
sustainable future on the people,
people the end gamers
now that the Luddites, the the capitalists, with short term balance sheet pressures, fanatic unused fanatics, saying we care
so much about whose, on this
in court and appending Roby Wade that we
he will align with these false prophets these false christian.
I will throw everything that actually defines the value system to focus on these things
and we will permit and celebrate,
The moral lie that
humans are doing is not creating and unlawful in unlivable were white, but I talk about this on stage are now that the problem, yet you in your right by by the other the deeper thing around that in Christianity, is an order for Jesus to come back. The world has to end so on some level there gunning for it.
Of a visa who never spoke to, like
Is it such a misguided intensity on the end of times, narrative that they are will
and to abandon the actual tenants of g of Jesus Yeah
who never spoke to like end of times, but
other than to say that a rich man will have
the time entering Heaven and passes dive needle
abandoned all the court tenants care for the least of
Fear user, you all in recycling, favor of nihilism, Pierre Nihilistic, old testament, vision of like these things, but worse to me, is,
We are at this point. I think, where corporate interests
The violence that corporate interests is doing here to the
When do we live on is,
Approaching I action
personally feel them a moral equivalent to the violence that was affected by ETA.
L, a or on the planet
and on people we are. We are moving into where it's not even a false, equivalent to say
the number of people affected.
At threat of their lives, to the climate,
crisis that were engineering is equivalent.
To the millions of people
dislocated and killed by total
terrorism and war war to millions of people like are going to be displaced, dislocated forced out of homes where fires these it's it's like.
Adam and the people who were the people who are
perpetuating that the the Sis
that's turbocharging this I
have a hard time, not like people
but not demonizing. One side or the other, I think people
who are under the sway. People are being hoodwinked in bamboozled, a hunt
percent. You gotta talk to each other. You you ve, got to talk to people. Try
whose fear led them.
To vote for a shower
a tan and also do not believe so.
Yeah, and I do believe that there is no journalistic integrity or fair,
to be her. You know, there's there's aka, but you ve got to, and I sometimes think that, like it,
a guinea Malcolm X, his message for
why marginalize? Why do you need to see you? You are being hoodwinked? You are being bamboozled, real leader would be nice, yet you are but but
You are being played. You are being
aid. You are. You are hard working patriotic a merry
and you are being played
ground in to them.
Scenery of corporate interests over your interest and tending
world you are being hoodwinked. Yeah you having hoodwinked, and even if you don't even climate change, literally you're healthcare is going
taken away. You're your taxes,
are not going to go down. You are
and pay four billion years,
our companies to get richer and richer and happy expensive at a plant entities, many of you and your children- and it's just like
like those we have taught you, but the
You know you and you can say, like
there were german military officers who right where Nazis right, but the people who,
perpetrating these things are, they are the tone,
solitary in future,
you're, the fascist of our era and like
The idea that we're gonna be
massive about that is terrifying. Yes, I agree, but that in it
but at the end- and I hope my farmers a lot of fun- the other movies get no but ivy by whereby they like it is
that power, but also about the things, but I think it's funny cause
you know aircraft wrote. Forest company is like one of the greatest writers of
In modern Hollywood, RE wrote for his, I love him and I always use when it has forced Gump gets dislike.
And I get so like a rap the I know you eat you relegate in your head to maybe something a little. You know that I can watch it yeah, it's a pretty to thee. Politically yeah ironic,
like he's this lovable guy with his
limitations yet through when you watch him navigate, and it is fun fun and it's funny, but it. But it's also like about America eating itself.
Yeah, I mean we're an lying to itself and how he
is able to sustain up a pure sense of care for someone else,
through it. I mean it's it's it's. A much more
much more grown up movie than I think we'll darker than we get him remember than you remember. We watch it, but I may I liked your movie alot now yeah and I'm glad we talked about this. I think we should add another note, because we can take and drive it right in Detroit theirs
You love forest gum, ill of models for the banks. The airport,
Ok Edward, nor in his new movie mother was Brooklyn comes out there this Friday November. First, I was good conversation. Oh, my god, my phone is transcribing what focus our attention?
not necessarily don't forget- watchman- has come to age. We owe inspired by the groundbreaking graphic novel of the same name: game in a window. Offs watchmen is set in an alternate history of present day America or the lines between vigilantes unmasked.
I'm fighters have been permanently blurred. Starring, Regina, king and Jeremy Irons, watchman airs sundays at nine p m only on HBO. Ok, all right, I'm fat! You, some good ta.
Transcript generated on 2020-03-25.