Hey folks, documentary film maker and self described anxious. New Yorker John Wilson serves as writer, director cameraman producer and narrator of the all new HBO Doc you comedy series how to who had John Wilson in a year meekly hilarious, odyssey of self Discovery and Cultural observation Williams. The lives of his fellow New Yorkers, while attempting to give every day advice, unreliable topics, or two with John Wilson and HBO original a streaming October, twenty third on B, o max. Also too, your great idea into a reality with Square Space Square Spaceman makes it easier than ever to launch your passion project, whether you're showcasing your work or selling products of any kind, with beautiful templates and the ability to customize. Just about anything, you can easily make a beautiful website yourself and if you do get stuck scores,

it is twenty four seven award winning customer support is there to help had disgraced based on calm, Swash W idea for a free trial, and when you are ready to launch use the offer W D have to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website, or domain. Ok, Let's do the show all right. Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the fuck's stirs what's happening? I mark Marin. This is my bag as WTF, welcome, welcome to it how's it going What are we a month? Seven of this shit, Are you good morning, good afternoon, good evening, housing exercise going how's the walk. Has your dog as you kid How's your leg, how's your hand how's your fuckin head Are you using whatever options you have at your disposal to maintain

Your sanity, without hurting sell for others. Are you trying to mind your mind, so they don't. mine your mind? Do you know? mark is Do you know what a mark is not me, a mark, the intended victim of a swindler hussar or the like a mark. An object of derision, scorn, manipulation or the, like example, he was an easy mark for this from being bull, shit marks, a nation of Marks Why am I bringing that up? Why? My bringing that, if I tell you man, president, alluded to leaving the country if he loses

good riddance if he can maintain powering continued degree aid. Nature of the rule of law. As we drift further into authoritarian, as don't email me. The other three fuckin trumps porters. You listen to me. Don't email me with your fuckin delusional bullshit about what Really happening dont. Do it? It's not my fault that your mark but you didn't mind your mind or that you're so myopic that you ability to contextualize or see through the VA. EL of garbage is muted. destroyed. Wouldn't it

beautiful beautiful if he loses and move to the entire operation and family to Russia where he can be protected. Wouldn't it be the best thing in the world if this mother Fucker lived in exile and Moscow got a lot of debt? charge is hanging over his head. I would just I love that story is the best possible ending, as the world ends Paddy Smith, is on the show. Today. Patty Fucking Smith is on the show today. Patty Smith, are you fucking Kidding me, when was the last time you listened to her first three albums in a row. She's got her latest book out you're. The monkey is now available on paper. Back might read some of her other stuff, just kids and devotion and few other books, but she's here, and I don't want to talk to her for a while.

and she's here. I am her first zoom interview. I was her first zoom call Addy Smith was a zoom virgin before me and I'm thrilled to have had that honor and you'll hear me talking to Patty. I just love what there's she's dead you're fucking deal. She is the one and only Patty, Psmith she's a right goods. Man all there all the time right up front, fuckin lover. True beatnik legacy, that's rise, trying to get out there's no context anymore really hit dissolving everything is all the time not It is true everything is permitted. That's not true!.

That's it already refund has sent a sob a bit that boroughs used to do and then Jim Carol did it in a song. I can't think like that, but the context of history. Is diminished. When everything happens, all the time and no one is educated properly, no one is really schooled in critical thinking or or civics. Or even american history in a proper way. Global history, myself included, Just all there all the time nobody knows who did wider, what anyone Importance was in the context of history, the big monsters the do gooders. Nobody knows really how they fit in. the generation of young people. Who might say yeah, you know Oh Hitler, the guy with the mustache right, that's the context, but history is being diminished.

And that's why, on some level I was happy to talk to Patty B, she comes directly from the New York that was still being occupied by a beatnik idea that was still being occupied by art, is sort of like pushing the envelope that first wave of Florence artists, the first wave of punk yo in the sort of like the b, up city of the early seventies stuff was forming. Things were happening. There was no internet Everything was wrong. Dirty yeah, that history but she is a direct legacy. She knew it. Oh she knew Ginsburg. They both took her under her their wing, she's friends with the Maple Thorpe she data, SAM Shepherd Tom remain, but she was everything in. cauldron of that stuff in the seventies when those old timers were kind of fading out a bit but still had some? wisdom to share.

because I wanted to be part of the beat Nick legacy. I respect Did that history. I was a hero? Worshipper, even I didn't quite understand it and I think any of those People exist anymore, the people that sort of worship these times, is it nostalgia? Is it wanting to live in the past. or is it honouring the arc of history an and where you land in it and where you come from. When I was in college, I was like all up in it written the books about the beatniks reading the beatnik books, written Beatnik euros Arthur Rambo. Bota lair. Blake Ginsburg was a Blake Guy, a Rambo guy, they are all Rambo guys, patties. Sereno woman, a Blake woman that

poetic legacy, the poetic journey of that particular type of poetry,. Shadow, your senses, man break it all down by guy, got some quotes here from these feet from the people from Rambo. The poet, therefore, is truly the thief: a fire is responsible for humanity for animals. Even he will have to make sure his visions can be smelled, fondled, listen to. If what he brings back from beyond, has form he gives it form if it has none, he gives it none. A language must be found of the soul for the soul and will include everything. Perfume sounds colors thought grappling with thought: Arthur Rambo hero, Patty Smith, here of the beats you're of Ginsburg. I always feel

I don't get. It always thought there was more there that I didn't understand it. How do I crack this fucking code. And then he kind of lighten up with it just take it in take what you can get the beats the mark Boroughs was a great comedian, great philosopher. I think he said something very relevant. My favorite boroughs quotes applied directly to what we're late through, like this one from naked lunch. I think The junk merchant doesn't sell his product to the consumer he sells the consumer to his product. He does not improve and since FI his merchandise. He a grades and simplifies the client. God bless America. Here's a direct message to the piece of shit president of the United States. We have currently quote

source of the world, there is one mark. You cannot beat the mark inside end, quote the mark, the intended victim of a swindler hustler or the like death from the dictionary, my point being there was a progression. There was a progression from the beatnik idea through. HU, the poetry of Patty Smith. Through the play writing SAM Shepherd on into punk rockin boroughs was dug in New York for a while, but Patty broke out. There's nobody like Patty Smith, but she was shaped and molded in the college of fucking poetic, art. The vision of rainbow I remember when I walked. I came from one year. I went

the living batch bookstore, where my mentor Gus blazed. EL presided, he was the proprietor. There was a poster on the wall for some sort big shindig up in Naropa, this must have been in the ABC early eighties at that beatnik school yeah. I think it was a the incident. I remember seeing this poster and they're were all gonna, be there all the living beats at that time. Boroughs Ginsburg Gary Snyder may be cruelly. I don't know who was there and war when they were going to be there, and I was such a I can fan boy man, I was it. I said that Yes, I said I gotta get up there. Do they get what you want to hang around with those geriatrics for do your own man and it might be but they were great. I knew those guys and then he made a joke I want to. I didn't want to believe it was a joke. Maybe it wasn't a joke, but he said yeah I met

Caraway once at a party and San Francisco. He was sitting on the floor in the corner drunk, With vomit on his shirt, talkin a NEO Cassidy, Saint live like a tree. Neil live like The tree, the Dallas Gus man is a funny mother, Fucker, change. My head changed my mind changed my heart, but I've been to the places I've been to the graves, I've worshiped at the altars and I come here I am this. Is it look? Every but he's looking for a change of pace these days, people and now as a great time to launch idea that you ve never got off the ground and square space can help. You turn your dream into a reality. You can easily make a beautiful website for whatever it is your working to do. Do you want to showcase your writing or do a streaming video show or have a place to sell the things you make Squarespace makes it easy with beautiful

and puts created by world class designers and the ability to customize just about anything with a few clicks. They also have twenty four seven customers, ports are. There will always be someone there to help. And you'll never need to do. A software update square space takes care of that. For you, everything is optimized for mobile right out of the box and there's nothing to patch or upgrade ever Squarespace empowers millions of people to turn great ideas into something real. So what are you waiting for head to Squarespace com wtf? for a free trial and then you're ready to launch use the Africa You D have to save ten percent off your first purchase of. website or domain. That's squarespace dot com, WTF offer code, wtf. my buddy dean Del raise, got a big show drop, and today you got all fellows formation DC over the Arctic. a couple of interviews so big day,

it's like when I interviewed Obama, dean interviewing Ac Deasey is a big day. The podcast is called. Let there be talk. go dig on that Doctor Get some Brian fill in the other guy, but you know they're, they're, back and dean talk to him. So now I got Patty Psmith here. Just so so fuckin excited about it furiously. I was your first zoom out, but why well of she enjoyed it right. Her third and latest memoir is called year of the monkey it's now available in paperback wherever you get books. and this is me and Patty Smith,. Doing her. First zoom dig it

What's your cat's name, Cairo, look at that she's nineteen years old and she's a she's a bit infirmed and she doesn't like to be separated from me. So I'm not here, It does not. Now it's great I just had to. I had a I just had to put down a sixteen year old, I'm sorry, it's terrible cheese and his sister went about six months ago, and then I got I have this other one is about four, so I got one left she's, the last of three we had so, but she she's a little. indian Runt. She was born, really small, kicked out of the litter box and kicked out of the Mama's box. and they didn't think she'd last very long and she's nineteenth the run through tough, that's right I was in a right, but I was pretty scruffy emphasis on anything. You seem

pretty tough, pretty early on I mean I was people would say: I was sickly because I was sick all the time, but in the fifties you had everything measles Chicken scarlet fever monk mumps tuberculosis. As a toddler I mean back, then you got everything and two kinds of measles it didn't necessarily mean that you were a sickly child. Just meant that you were negotiating all of the things that came out out at you, so I'm pretty good at negotiating those type of things. So you know I'm hoping that that will give me an extra strength and that- person situation what is situation? It is yeah. Well you disturbed. You know having been through so many different kinds of illnesses. I know and this one seems extremely troublesome, unpredictable

potentially dangerous, so I've been respecting it. I've had my I like my talk with it and said I respect you, I'm seventy three. I have a little ocular condition I'll, be prudent, and even though I'm restless and agitated I'll be prudent, and I do it I'm supposed to be doing so. That's that's all. I can get wet grip I like this. You said, and in one of these epilogues you said there, like ig nausea, that we were obliged to work off work off In every way available as I acknowledge that we have that's that's every day. Well, that this I acknowledge that I was speaking of then, because I wrote that very early What are our sitting patient in terms of our government right. I really talking about our plan,

because situation and what we have to deal with daily by day, in, of course, that melted it with. as you said you know, work now we're dealing with a pandemic that makes us deal with things not only mentally but physically yeah. Now you're talking bind I've, but I do try to keep busy night. I try to keep. as possible. I've been saying use whatever option. You have at your disposal to maintain your sanity without hurting yourself or others. Yes, I like that. That's good, and also do things that benefit you, I mean it benefits. Many, alone in my house, I'm quite messy, so it better it's me to become more disciplined to be to clean up for after myself, too to shed things. It has benefited, may to beg you no more

domestically aware, even though I didn't really want to- and I dont like staying put, but I feel a better. I feel, like my surroundings are healthier there. You know they. They give me more space to think yeah. So something like that, you know just we all. to do whatever we can to survive emotionally. Physically and andor? Psychologically, psychological yeah? I mean and I think it's been interesting for me because spending this type of time with yourself, it's it's not it's again it's not really challenging, but it is revealing you know I mean in the book in in some of your other work, I mean as a pole, or as an artist you you're, sort of your job party or job, is to do to reflect and spend time young meditating on life and whoever you are in relation to the world and Europe expression by white. But now he really find out which are made of

in terms of emotional survival, psychological survival. You know what's in here written to you. it's amazing- how that list of things that you think more important you get smaller, you spend this type of frightened time alone, AIDS that yeah well I mean. Really I mean I I am used to being on my own. I am used to travelling and being on my own all over Europe or while I'm working or away from my band. I, like my solitude, I'm not that social, I'd like to write on my own, but that in motion. Yeah being a stationary alone is a lot different and, and I have found it, challenging so As you said, I've had to really go into myself in get to know what I'm like in this particular scenario where it has been. It has

then challenging, but I've learned a lot. I feel healthier, I'm ten! to myself, I'm doing my own cooking them and trying to develop new disciplines. but I find that I pace a lot talk to myself more than well, I mean it seems like when I look at your life, I mean like there's this idea. You know that There's some precedent for for the type of chaos or for how bad this country can get in there, but it seems to me that you grew up in the fifties, but you got to New York what in the late sixties right? Yes, sir must have been insane right. Well mean for me it was excited. because I lived in a very merle area of South Jersey And I M just to see people on the streets was exciting. You- and I want to see all these stores to see so many bookstores summit, eight possibilities for work?

was one in the exciting things. There was no work for a twenty year old in. South Jersey or in Philadelphia, because there was a huge shutdown of the New York shipyard in Camden, thousand people lost their jobs and there were no real jobs for young people. Suddenly, your was for me, and you know it was like a golden height. It was down in our city like myself at the time line, nineteen sixty seven, the city was narrowly bankrupt, was very cheap to live in New York City. Then there were hundreds. It seemed a bookstores places to get a job. People on the streets. You know I didn't buy the ETA and there was things to say: everywhere museums it. It was amazing to me. So it didn't feel like like I watched. I saw some documentary footage of you, not you with with Robert but also in Vienna,

I don't know what the interview was, I think was an atom Curtis documentary, you know. out New York, but I always get the feeling you know, which it may be wrong that it fell chaotic and frightening, but by that wasn't a sense oh no! I was never frightened in New York. He always I did. I mean because I mean New York had its dangerous areas, there are areas back. Then you just didn't go into didn't go down all the way down avenue see in these village arrive. There were, certain areas that you stayed out of, but I I found all of the on the action exciting. people on the streets- I mean I, you know in the parks. There are all these people protesting and singing and playing chess, and I you didn't see that where I came from it was Citing I mean I never was armed. In fact, it was a lie

at scarier walking down a dirt road at night and passing the pig farms in South Jersey Nineteen sixty seven then walking through these village. That's for sure, why always got That too, I always felt I I was felt the safest in New York because at any point every time you could work outside in there be people s right and thereby that if something went down, someone was going to step in and go. Oh, oh whoa! No, you! You can't do that. You know Someone was gonna how bout yeah I've. I really I felt tat. I ve never been harmed in New York City. Never never been harmed by another person, and you know I flourished here I mean I'm yeah New York is much changed, not the New York that I knew when I was young by dumb. I feel very grateful to it. What seems like you? I was thinking about liking or how to frame a conversation or to think about your worker,

or you know how you kind of became, who you are? Is that your kind of like theirs? your generation, this sort of beatnik legacies and the people that sort of cane lighted. The type of of environment, that created the art that that your general reaching came from that. You came from. It was really the last one like that. I mean it. Just there were such a creative kind of new. is two things it was like risks to be taken and there were a sort of rock and roll swash beatnik ethic to it all and a sort of desire to push buttons even further that end was also earnest and it seemed I get a small community and you still had some of the old guys around we were all that

nicely said I feel like. I should just be listening to you you're much more particular than I've been lately but well, I think also we were all bread on rock and roll. We were, it was a were post work is we we wanted new things will we didn't want the same. You know we didn't want to things her parents desired, which will safety security, are there little house and you know, nothing wrong with the things that they wanted and we wanted something there. I wanted to be free of all that I didn't want to have things set up For me, I didn't want to be a secretary or a her dress or a homemaker I want did you see what else was out there and the nice. Thing about New York at that time there were kids from all over all over America who came like minded, we were all

listening to the same music. We all you know are cause Those were the same, you know whether it was you know, human rights A rights civil rights, the other or in Vietnam we we had our cause and are and are in love, we're very, were intent, So you know you felt kinship wherever you went, and even the people there were more well known when I lifted the Chelsea. You know any given moment. Janis, Joplin or the omens? brothers or Jimi Hendrix her, and all these people would walk, and the only thing that separate braided assault. Was they a bigger rooms? Where are they more money to spend at the bar, we all do the same. You know you had some or Kaden, sinners speech. We all

get to know each other. There wasn't that was it. Wasn't the cult of celebrity the way that it is now it was more like that's such and such an he's done, as you know, is created these songs that were singing or that is really inspired us. It wasn't the people weren't taking people's pictures and asking for autographs, we all sort of lived together. community of creative people pushing the envelope yeah right and and and I don't know why- cuz I'm like I'm fifty- I just turned fifty seven. So you know a lot of this stuff for me coming into it and in being in college, and you know, kind of being obsessed with the beets and then getting upset The next generation of artists that you were part of any other every time I inner spent any time at the Chelsea. You know was not yet it was. just a mythological place. Almost you know, that's funny, because it was almost when I

When I went there and sixty nine with Robert people were that about it, then he over, because You didn't have to people like Bob Dylan and Needy Cedric until and Tom Medicine than the people before us had left her died, but people there were still there were pretty good idea, was seven. We were More absurd early. right we were the Rock n roll generation who was there? I mean what was most surely Clark lived there. Harry Smith was their you'd, see Arthur, see, Clark, sovereign, Dolly came in and Janice Joplin there for a while and Leonard. the Kohen, all kinds of musicians. There are very few. We go into the the bar and extortion say, whoever was playing with would be at the EL lot, but they were just and I lived there, so they were in my house and he will go and

I remember sitting at the bar at the lot bar because we're working on a project with William and was William Burrows in our Ginsburg Carl Solomon and Denis Hopper, then sampling. came in and it was just another night. You know Terry Southern- he was writing a script for William. We were in a version of of junkie. Oh really, I want to play Mary, but it all fell apart, but for a while just hanging out with them it's pretty great, I can't imagine I just like when I read this book. You know new, the one that's coming on paper back now, you're the monkey I mean it seems like yours. Sort of straddling some of the stuff that boroughs did you moving between reality, not reality dream not dream you having guides, you know and in because like

when all they should start to go down. For some reason, I went back to boroughs to try to decode some stuff Cosette in my I always feel like it's all in. They are somewhere that you all The answers are within boroughs somewhere, you just have to figure out I find them and sorted out from some of the other science fiction and weirdness. He believed it was all out. There was all out. and he believed also, if you were lucky enough to have suffered scarlet fever, which both him and I had. You had an open channel for all of these things. To come from this great cool so he what you were getting from William. He was a good point all because William got all of those things everywhere else. He believed in that. So you is the right guide for you, so so the scarlet ever created the ability well believe that it didn't create the ability but that it opened the portal

wider in the wild boys, Johnny and the wild boys had scarlet fever. We had a club man, William called the Scarlet Fever club, and but he you really believe that if you had suffered- a really deep favour at a very young age. It opened your portable forever, interesting year. I went I for some reason. I started to into the, though I stern lands, he you know It seems to me that I and I think that may be you're dealing with a bit of it to that, like he had to somehow reckon with mortality. In a very sort of practical way for himself and it seem like yeah. His interpretation of the book of the dead was how he you gonna go about it is that true

I suppose I've never analyzed. I never thought about it. I mean to me, I mean that's the kind of thing I have to talk. I just read his yeah me too, but, like I wanted answer somehow and any like, I had to keep going back because structurally he's a little tricky for me, but like you know, when I started to see that he was dealing with all these different levels that that, once the guy person, dies goes through. He created characters with names were each of those levels that were boroughs characters, I was sort of able to figure out. Oh this is the journey man you know so, It was a little you think further I do I mean to me William, sometimes reading William are reading. Certain writers is like listening to call train or something do our saxophone solo right. I don't I never analyze it. I guess I'm just there and I just with them- and I go away as far as they're gonna. Take me and and then I come back and Donny

remember where we ban, because so immersed in the going. I think that's right. I think that's the best to do it. I always assume, like I sing something: there is another, Oh, I didn't he's got so many blanks their yeah. He wants you to fill in anything. You have to be the third mind with with William right, because I I remember. One Williams. Great disappointment in himself was that he couldn't write a straight lace, detective story or a straight lace novel. He and we talked him that this all of these books every. If you think about it, they start very conventional. yeah you're you're, going on here, you're, going with this old guy sitting there with his. You know, shotgun gun on a barrel or something you're gonna go straight through some plot with him and then he starts. Cutting things up in

going into several layers of worlds and he told me he just couldn't help it. That's that's the way his mind works and that's his process would have loved to have written even a two bit detective novel. That's for your I've read his essays and it's interesting when he writes with that The clarity or you read the interviews but like you and I get it there's a magic to it. You guys I mean you're a magician as well. There is a magic to this idea of, of transcending space and time you're through cut ups and through you know I mean I get it and I like it, so you were able to spend time with boroughs early on before you used started singing or as a poet, I met him in nineteen. Seventy. I think I met him I had a big crush on him, so I was always you gotta pick em. come into the Chelsea Hotel and he was.

Oh handsome any was always so well dressed and I just had the biggest crush on him and I would try to eat. I returned, to him and I think he was amused by me, but also here To trust me, I don't know we became friends, this, but also sometimes in the course of the night. William would get extremely dishevelled because they come. into the Chelsea, and you had to come through the lobby and then go through the store into the bar he would start out with, you know perfect, tie in and sue did an overcoat and they need left. He was a bit stumbling. You get a bit intoxicated and I would wait, and then I would get on a cab and make sure that you know he didn't leave anything behind and just be as like little.

Guardian angel girl, that's sweet. We just got to be friends and friends throughout his whole life and right to the end of his life and he was the very kind and very principled man. I know people know all different aspects William here and here with many things and dumb. But to me it was very good to me. He was a good teacher My husband died. He was some so supportive. He was kind of my children. You know I'd love, I loved him. Well, I feel a lot I mean that's one thing that comes through the writing and and your life is like, like the amazing, deep and lasting friendships. Is really it's like enviable. I mean you know when the way you talk about William and the way you talk about SAM Shepherd in the book. Just these

this real appreciation of of friends and people. You love and other artists that you respect it's just it really struck me. Because I don't I don't. I think things have become kind, chaotic and odd in, and I guess people still do it. But when I look at my life, I have a few friends, but there too, because you, the generation and the people that you guys, the crew of you are so a daunting in in in in your output in and who you were in the world. I just that you not only friends, but you stay together until the end I mean it's really kind of amazing, and it really is what life is about. I mean at least half of it right. Will you find a few people that you? Really trust to you feel you know understand you. I was just lucky the people then that I

was close to as a young girl and remain closed still in their passing. We had all of us had worked centric relationships as well as sometimes romantic relationships, river, maybe purpose my boyfriend and but when we you know had to You know transition our relationship. We had so much to salvage are, you know our mutual respect for each other, the work that we did weak with each other, how we trust in each other's opinion, how comforted we felt by each other, and so there was no reason to you. I'll tear our friendship apart. We we had an wee wee. Wee wee had worked very hard but we saved it and the same with salmon. I sound was my boyfriend when I was young It was some that was quite didn't.

Citing period, but we also work together, but we had a great trust and great communication and friendship that we had, and I aspects of that working relationship is not trust were way more important than you know, a romantic relationship. If that's not, why your destined to have. There is often greater jewel there. If you recognize it and work to to keep it alive and we did yeah, it's beautiful and who is it sort of early on the only way? I could picture view too at that time was by actually in a reading or seeing a production of cowboy mouth, and I was like wow that that that seemed exhausting we live in. Writing that was sound was the easiest thing I mean it of the salmon. I

decided mutually that we would part here he did the family, it was the right thing to do, but we were you know we were. We were sad and but One night he just said we were in the Chelsea Hotel Hotel any stood. Let's ride a play, let's not weep, let's ride a play I said I don't know how to write a play was late. You do zoom. I don't know how to do that here as them, so he said well I'll set up the scenario, and you be here character and I'll, be my character. So he set up a scenario and then he started writing and when it was my time to talk, he would just hand me the typewriter. We were sitting on a bed, any slide over the typewriter, and then I would write my part and then I would slighted back and we wrote a play, an up and dumb dust it had

a naturalness to it, but both of us being guenaud low? where's of language, lot of which in it too, if you so I can you know these reflections in this book in a particular way. I don't I don't know all the books specifically by know I I've kind of immersed myself in the music. Now just yesterday, I listened to the last album you did, which was great and I I was you. I listen to the first four and caught in the middle and picking up pieces here and there and then look at the gaps and, unlike what is going on there, I just do a lot of thinking before I talk to her no kidding You stop me in my tracks a couple of times. I did in a bad way. Now the way I was like, yellow, especial when you were talking about William and and where the frank. The layers asked you regard. I was just like again, I just went with you and then you question me a question about what you said and I was like. I was

off with you man. I didn't. I wasn't analyzer what you were saying. I would add that I will. I think I can do that with jasmine, and I can do it with TAT, exactly that's what it's all about, improvisation, it's the miracle of improvisation. I can walk into that stuff. You know but, like I think, there's some part of me that, like I guess it's not it's on about craving answers, but it is sort of about about making sense. You know what I mean and, like you know, and I'm looking to him to make sense. You know control needs control to survive. You know like I'm like what is that me so, but that's me, he was up both the two and it's like the whole life. Here was to explode. The senses. Gonna was, I mean, think about it with doing caught up in all of the things he was doing here. He was always looking for new things. William was looking for Lake

a new language, a new acid bet. You know some new aspect of the psyche, but he wasn't really looking to make sense. A part of him did craved right, the straight detective story, but when he was writing, he was looking for things he was looking. He was looking for something that no one had said before. No one had seen before because that to William was what an artist did. Write makes sense. so that get rainbows another one like you know, did the championing of, Rambo that you do in my Jim Karel DE, like there people that do it. The beats. Do it like that brought me to Rambo and again, like others. I do. I just take this stuff. It its value in you, you you do because the images are mine, blowing. That's what you're looking for right, I'd, ever been an analytical person dared to speak to us, I was like eleven years old when I saw Cuba's. We are the first,

art for the first time Q business spoke to me At eleven years old Jackson Pollock spoke to me eleven years old. I can't say why I mean one kids well the time of rock n roll. Maybe it was that you know that fifty energy, but I've never really been able of even sought to analyze why things have spoken to me Why Rambo spoke to me? I didn't even understand his poems when I was like fifteen, but they were their beauty. Just captivated me. I didn't care about what they meant yeah, the esteemed some, it's not so difficult to comprehend why these lay and now but back then it was like a reading. Wittgenstein the world is like the world is everything that is the case. You know what does that mean? Well, I don't know, but I'm there you know I'm there with you man, I don't know what you're talking about, but I'm right with you yeah. I want

I wrote some downwards. It said you know, I don't know what it means, but when I'm reading it it feels like I'm thinking. It yeah yeah, who said that me well there. You go again that that is a clear statement and I oh exactly what you're talking about, I like that in their regions, like it's like feeding it to you now and then something all is something reconfigure, something in your brain, whether you understand it or not. Well, and and sometimes light, do we understand music earlier Listen to you know, Hendrix are Beethoven or something- and you know you don't need to break that down. If it's like speaks to you or makes you weep or just makes you feel you know you know like you could conquer the universe. There's a what's analyze it's it's oh yeah, you gotta. Let it happen yeah, there's! No, I'm I'm! No! I'm not graded analyzing things, but when I feel

I just always assume that I don't like understand certain things but You know, as you get older than those things, become fewer and less important. That's for fuck sure that you know There is another way to look at that how great it is there's still stuff out there. We don't understand. Oh it more exciting, more more adventure, he understood everything ghetto then we might might get up get a little born. I I when I love when things beguile me, I can look like one of the things I love. The do is look at lake geometry. Books are higher mass books that have or that have all kinds of diagrams in London. I don't what it is, but it's so beautiful and the language of mathematics is so beautiful. I've never been able to figure it out, but I'm endlessly entertained by.

yeah. I know I'm no good at math either good. yeah. What is it what's? Goin out there? Just people is a thing they're doing out people put their car radios up to his loud as possible, open the window and sang how well you know, people cannot for on out of their skin. They need it's early. The thing is, I know, is becoming a thing to say: sometimes see the same cars circling owner when it think there you know hoping they'll be discovered. Although the only really I mean he's been eating ass, she didn't have happy that there have been a good time. what about Ginsburg one Jimmy Ginsburg? I meant Alan again right near the Chelsea Hotel, and I have written about this injustice. Is I met Alan, I knew Hawaiian. Ginsburg was, of course you and I

state think I learned about Alan Ginsburg through Bob Dylan. It seems to me right. I had never. Madame and then I think, probably early nineteen, seventy one or somewhere in nineteen. Seventy I was going to the automatic. To get a sandwich is really hungry and Robert, and I had hardly any money and I didn't have enough money, just hand money for a savage side. Put the money in the night went to get my sandwich out and it wouldn't open because they add up the price from light zero dollars and fifty five cents for this cheese and mustard sandwich to zero dollars and sixty five cents. So I was like devastate because I was so hungry here and now here this waste behind me and I was dressed like that long? we're code on in like a mico ski cap. You know yeah. kind of cool look and I mean I was like twenty two or something and I This guy says, can I can I help, and I

I turned around and Sullen Ginsburg and I just I was like well and I just like He put a dying man. I got my my sandwich and then he went and got me a cup of coffee and then he that with me, and I was like speechless. I thought I Ginsburg is like getting me food and coffee, and then He starts talking away to me and then finally, I answer on how we start he was talking about. Camden, then I am from general area. So I started talking about Whitman Beer and need look negroes. Are you a girl and I was I've already read this, but since you asked me and it's a true story- and I said yes is that a problem and he went oh no! No! No! No! I'm sorry! I thought you were very pretty boy and I I I I figured out so I ask myself what do I have to give you

back the sandwich jerk. You know he can. I keep to that of a year and its pounded laugh and he said no, it was my and just we just hit it off. We kept talking about Walt Whitman, but he had come to my rescue because he thought I was right is often mistaken for deciding where make up ready Like tat, I just had an androgynous look here, so I was that's how Alan and I met and em away it's funny. Tis I met William cause. I was trying to pick him up the agenda which was equally fruitless because when William realized, I was trying to pick him up. He said my dear I M a homosexual. I dont care. That's ok, tat both of these men really, where such from me great teacher,

and great friends I mean really again when, when my my husband died. Ninety four and I too small children had to come back to New York. I was really at the lowest point in my life it was Allan who came. Alan came right to my rescue. Drew me back into working again, actually talked above Dylan to ask Bob to maybe take me on a tour help me get work. We are so these men in I met these men, both the nineteen seventy and humorous circumstances, but they were lifelong friends for window and he started to do like you seem like you landed on poetry like you, it seemed like you were doing a lot of stuff and you continue to do a lot of stuff, but poetry seem to be the thing was that a decision you made at some point like this is it you know I wanted to be an artist, that's what I want to try. It's me in order was the whole Retrim right at the end. I dream.

being a painter and I offer this road, and I always right poetry since I was about fourteen year, but when I first came to New York working at a bookstore, Robert I lived in a little apartment and I didn't drawings, but it was really The lion's share of my energy women, poetry And that's really hell. I wound up, performing or and and recording later it's all the poetry was the genesis. Again and horses, the first law of horses right. Gloria is from a poem. I wrote in nineteen seventy right and an Redondo Beach King

from a poem a lot of and the idea of improvised thing came from the way I wrote and performed poems. So I guess I've always been poetry centric. When it comes to my work. Even now, when I write a lot less poetry, I still feel it invading my looks like in India the monkey on any of these books at irate yeah I'll eat something in our thinking. Oh that's. Three quarters palm butter are definitely yeah. There's like I ended up like last night. I listen know I was listening, tangerine dream, you have read: Yes, us reading them the rest of your book and I guess I'd read like over half of it already. I've got tangerine dream on reading your book, and I was- and am I underline in shit like this- is poetry, there's that, like

It definitely see parts where you know if you just, hasty differently. They just be poetry. A lot of the poetry I wrote- I was younger was of centric or relationships centric or know, and is just as I I got older I've written. I dont right some much of that anymore. So I'm I find myself gravitating completely to prose we I mean I I was thinking about that. Like you know what you just said about the. You wanted to be an artist in an artist is all of it and I think it seems to me like, even in that, this being your first zoom- and I I mean I'm very excited to be part of a Patty Psmith first it's not so bad. I was, I mean I did I have to say I was a little worried about it. I thought Wolf, yet I dont know I I I just didn't know what to expect here. It's it's all right it.

It's fun so far. It works yeah but like yeah when you talk about being a full artist in that you know that you did all you had to do all these things whatever it was that there is this general sense of the artist and art I was talking to my buddy SAM lip site last night he's a writer. Genius. I love him and with the it struck me that even you know the that you, don't you don't zoom. You now have the head Phones in you live the life of an artist, but you also seems with me. In reading the book that you look to art to resign. Of all the fundamental questions of of existence. You worked to art for relief. You look to art to make sense of world, you look to it when you're just hanging out in coffee. That theirs is, most have religiosity two to one can do for somebody if they surrender to its wholly and fully it seems that the life you live. That's thank you that that's really a nice thing to say,

but I think it's also. I look it when I, is very young. I always looked at being well that one is called to be an artist calling to be a poet while it could be anything calling to be it could be a priest for a musician graveyard. I mean it's, you no one has a calling, but you know I felt like it. It was my calling I've never wanted to do anything else. They don't really not that adapt to do anything else part. A part of my life, my whole life and I was very ill and he tell me I've been very ill or, at the you know, at the brink of despair. It always,

come comes to me and always gives me refuge or red always gives me a voice. It always or arm makes me feel that I have some worth in that chair. I have something you know too, to offer the Canon of of art or offered to people are offered to the future issues, but you know, I think it is all of these things are linked together. If one has owing: where does the calling come from you? No one can say from God from nature. You know from some kind of vast energy pool and- and I believe in those those things I mean how I believe in it shifts as I evolved, but I've always connected art for me has not been a godless pursuit

so I always am. I have it all within my work. I have connections with everything within my work, but I girls understood that being an artist in others, certain amount of sacrificing and also there is a certain amount of self. orientation. I mean a self tenderness being it's not I'm not talking about. being conceded, I'm just talking up it you're you become a sort of work and an one's own work, centric created, of course, centric, which can be it the detriment to how much time or how much of yourself you give to others oh there is, you know it's not like it's

the most benevolent of all the vocations, but it's the one. I it's the one. I got it's interesting. Because I feel a calling, I feel like I had a calling- and I felt like I had no choice but to be a stand standard comic. I mean that was it like. There was no. There was no other thing to do so. That's what I did and I do have one is other things we do I do this now and but whatever by its Thee nobody to identify the calling and then actually have it in your brain that you have. No other option is something strange. You know I, you know, commitment that I can't explain it, but maybe it's it's a God thing. It's a spiritual thing, but like there's literally one you have it in you, honor it you're. There are no other choices and then, when she gets tough you're like why, I guess I'm just fucked, or else it's gonna get me out of this. I dont know I have no idea. I also

think of it. For myself, I've been very lucky because luckier unlucky, because I summers like I have like like I live on, the on constant fork in the road and I'm always going up this road or that road, because one great part of me as a performer is entrenched in collaboration public life. collaboration with it with that with a crew with technology with the people. With with my band it's entirely collaborative and and it's very outgoing and and then the other part of me requires no one and desire has no one, the writer part of major. It really requires no tech. Ology coming, I can get a note book in a pencil. I can be off by myself

I don't need anything I don't need any one and its and I keep isolating, or going back and forth to these two vocations, which is again why is that Months of this of our lockdown was difficult because I had my bags packed, I was gone on world tore off all year of touring. I got myself ready for that. I will. I was my gift to my people, because at seventy three, One can start questioning how long you gonna be doing this and I was ready for that. I might be wholesome He was ready for that to be outgoing, to be More giving to be more open with people and I'm and then suddenly locked down and solid.

And stationery, which I wasn't mentally or physically prepared, for so I was Quite restless, the least, but but I've gotten into a groove I see, I see the instagram stuff, you seem to be kind of like it at least writing daily, taking pictures I daily, but the first couple months. I didn't write as much as I wished. I had to read the first couple of HANS was really getting a new mindset. Report, programming myself to suddenly being blown to being in one place. not going anywhere not doing anything publicly So it was some. You know I I I had to return, but you know I'm doing over an hour. You seem good, you know you can do the zoom cause with anybody paddy. By give you get

used to this. You can hang out with people like this. It's really funny it's just I just I saw my kids did once and they asked me to sit in it. We re not dislike for like three minute. This is my first I mean I did that, but this is the first all by myself doing with figuring out and the reason I thing and everywhere I- I stood about four minutes. I was like I'll be right, back kids and I look my kids, but it was like all his talking in all these. I was like. Let me out of here yeah the other thing when you are talking about art and about you know, like you know about writing about choosing writing. You know that writing becomes the the primary as you get older. Is that what you're able to do? I mean a certainly in this book, and I am just kids as well. As you know, you're able to take your experience with people. You love and people you respect, and then you know

as they pass on. You know you integrate them into the universe of your own creativity through. You know how you present them in these books, it become characters. Yet you know none of us knew like I didn't know sandy at all. You know, but like I had one When I went looked him up and I saw the work you get us other records we produce that. I hear what you had to say, but you're sort of interpret. in a very moving on of their passing it. If we create another world for their existence. It's kind of it's a beautiful thing, but it seems like you know that you are doing a lot of reckoning with this loss business. You know Well, I have my whole life. It's just seems to be something that you know, and especially in the past. Well, I had a string of losses in rear. My my pianist Robert Maple for my brother, my husband, my parents and

So many friends in salmon Sandy and one year was there was quite a blow, but I know the I think Robert asked me to reach us kids. I would have never written that book ever I'd, never wondered a writ right nonfiction. I just wondered write fiction and poet. Robert asked me to write it the day before he died. I promised I would and it took over ten years to write it and dumb what I was trying to do is give people give give people as a human being, you know what this his video sink Christy's and you know his work. I think the way out He was her loving. He was or I think he wanted to be remembered. it more spectrally, but he also knew he could trust me. Anne and SAM was alive when I, when I

M Train Sam is occur. Sam is in entering the his The M trainers himself unease in empty train, as my sort of like Guardian Angel Cowper Greater, and he had he loved this he he saw himself in just kids and he knew that I presented him as We were in that's what he said to me. I said where you mad: where was he Are you ok with what I wrote he said was just like the was yeah I'd like giving people I like sharing my people with with with everyone right now about my brother. Very few people knew brother, my brother was an extraordinary person. He died, winning forty two, and I just want people to know him, and I I don't know why

I don't. I don't even know what to say. I feel like you, you put a mirror up to me and I'm thinking. Oh, should I be doing bad or will it, but it is of course, of course you should we do it's like. I was sort of amazed because you know I recently lost somebody that that I loved and tragically and quickly and reckoning with loss. You know I've never had to do it. You know this is the first time like you know my my parents are still fuckin alive, you know, and you and this woman was yo my my girlfriend and she was in my house, and I never had to to deal with that that the trauma the tragic than the absence of living with the absent. So what do you do with them? So I felt. those virtually reading, yet this in an reading your parts of just kids that ye now it seems that, you are integrating YO that absence in two You know what life is. I mean it's as

nothing unusual about loss and about death. It's the most common thing, in the world, but it's like it's really a lot to deal with, but it's perfectly human Well, I I also like I a lot of my relationships. A lot of my friendships would belong, Distance- We will then see each other for a while, so you know, but I always felt them with me. I always felt SAM with me when I travelled here. If I didn't see him for a couple of months No I'm for half a century! I knew that he was in my corner. He was in his and innovate. It doesn't feel any day friend, I do long to see him as he does such a beer for man and he was so protective and I just his presence. I miss his physical presence, on more than I could have imagined, but

but I also feel alone, I'm sure I'll write something else again and he'll be back again bring him back always some because they always be with me here. I I don't see why he didn't be with me right horse course. And- and you have been together for a million years now right, yes Lenny, not long, after I met SAM Lenny. And Sandy were very good friends well, we all knew each other like Sandy was was like sandy right. Is that Perlman Perlman yeah Pearlman we're As the manager and may producer of a boost, our call for a lot of record. Yes, any wrote a lot of their size He wrote a lot of their lyrics in the concepts grandma

A lot of those songs, astronomy, a star. I wrote some of the lyrics. I wrote career of evil and summit. The other ones, but the night met. Sandy was my first poetry, reader, and I was with SAM and Lenny- did a little. guitar with me play some feedback once palms and. And sandy bromine came up to man and told me I should be he frightened abandoned, asked me if I wanted to come in addition to sing to be the others singer with IRC on what became Blois vehicle. They were called stock. Far stood the time. Can I just thought that was. I thought it was really funny anymore. It twice it SAM. I said. I said this guy said the funniest thing to me, and he said I don't think that's so funny you could do that

in a year and area, but I was nineteen February. Seventy one- and I wasn't even thinking about doing anything like that. I wanted it. You know, I I think I had my first poetry book in and I was very poetry was my vocation, that I was magnifying, never even occurred to to the St Mark's poetry project, what it was called. Yeah. It's weird the convergence of liking that scene and upon rock scenes all sort of like swirling around and then, if it blows up, the weird thing is about about you. as I am listening to you. You know from from horses in the first three records dislike here you're fuckin rockstar mean that she had holds up and, like you know, whatever you were doing like with the poetry or whatever. There is when you seen on those sites or worthy, I saw you perform here and allay couple years ago at that small club. I it was

member when Johnny Depp came up, I think Joe Perry was air, does good show. You were great, rocked hard A girl, like you know when you when I see you do that. I was to record that, like this, is you know it's yours sing? you are force in rock and roll. I mean I mean I sure the poetry poetry is great, but was there a certain amount of relief when you started you rock and roll. Oh absolutely I mean that's, that's why it happened, because I got bored really quickly. You know I mean just ring palms. I had so much energy. I had really seventy eight speed natural energy dialogue just a wired kid and I couldn't really they contained easily. I found that dumb. You know it is happened, it started slow, but women, it fire started happening and I started improvising over three cords yeah.

I could just spew language and plus I I'd like to you know that the physical physicality of it and the but in I was still thinking of it as poetry. I wasn't thinking them, you know it That I was like a rock n roll singer, I didn't have any say in our vision. MR of me singing I was of the performer. I still think them myself as a performer woke when evolved to rock n roll and we were recording and going on the road. Of course, you know I loved Rock n Roll Rock roll saved my life. When I was a kid in o being part of the the evolution of rock and roll was help for me, and I wanted to be, like the best I was gonna, be even a minor rock oral star. I was gonna, be a good one. I don't know even talented, I just mean I would put all of my

everything into being like you know all in real deal yeah because now who wants to, be a mediocre rockstar. Nobody there's there's a lot of them around, though so when you they, who were I mean it's pretty yeah, pretty specific rock here of that kind of compel Joe I mean I mean I mean I loved, I loved you Morrison and in a way I mean I love Bob Dylan course. Bob Dylan was a very important and mentor of for me, but One of the pit people that I learned so much from here. was Johnny Winner really well, because

I got a job for a while with Steve, Paul Steeple loaded to signing up to his record. He opened up a record com, In nineteen, seventy one called blue sky record here. Anyone you gimme a record contract here in nineteen seventy one in it, but he wanted me to he wanted to form me. yeah, and I said, offered me a lot of money? And I said I ain't doing that. I actually to embarrass about that. I said this guy offered me like. Huge amount of money, but it's not something I want to do when he said you know you gotta keep your name clean. You got it never do anything. You know isn't right, for you. keep your name clean wow, so I but I needed I wanted to shift. I need. I wanted a different job, so I didn't take that, but I took a different job from him

sort of shadowing Johnny, were when they went to go to England, because Johnny's, color, blind and- they needed somebody with them did Goethe. You know, walk cross the streets, look at the traffic lights. and Rome around with him and Johnny liked me: Johnny Chelsea Hotel for a while and Robert Design, some of his clothes, so so I started going to some Johnny's concerts while he wasn't like anybody that where did thought, I would like the army- and I was I Jimi, Hendrix all Jimi Hendrix all the time here, but I saw it Johnny live many times and I have to say seventy seventy one. Seventy two. I never saw anybody like him any One is fierce. Is him he he would leap,

first person, I ever saw that leaped into the people into the people with Leap right off the stage he commanded that pole stage and the energy that that I had an body. Language was like nothing. I never saw was like a wizard yeah yeah was my favorite guy. I mean it wasn't even like my kind of music but his physicality, and I learned a lot from him yeah he's I give is a monster. Guitar player I mean he's in always always was at today You know he was almost bore. Witness was like he is like bewitched. I learned a lot from him. I learned a lot. Of course you know our model so a little after Bob Dylan, and you know why I was wasn't too embarrassed about you know modeling myself. After these guys are now I'm you know. Bob Dylan model himself after rambling Jack Elliot for years,

but I am you know, I just got what I and I was myself, but I like that certain things from these people, like I'm certain things I know from from Jimi Hendrix right, that's things from Lotta Lenny Beer in Algeria, so I just took the things from masters because had no train and I have no musical train and I didn't believe- and I didn't replicate them- I just observed armed what I could learn from of corn just yet because, like I can't I get becomes seamless and you know you near you- take the magic of the the the the heroes and you you integrate them into your sense of self, and evidence in a new kind of bloom and your own thing. You know you don't you know, you don't become them, but you have it Beverly magic. I like the way you characterize Johnny there, You just saw that he was a vessel hidden away what it was it was in there. You know a night and also he was fearless

told you Morrison and Jim Morrison, he was asked them, but an he'd like push things too far. She could, but he always think afraid, interacting very paranoid style performer. He seemed because he had you could feel no, what zone demons whatever he feared. I was young, I mean, I'm Stipe saw him in nineteen. Sixty eight something or sixty seconds. But what I got from him wasn't the same thing I got from Giovanni right. I thought you know he had you know I'm sure you sometimes he might have felt like the Jim Morrison. But you also fell a self love,

thing or something he had a strange right it blood. He lacks self love. I think, and I don't either. I can't say that I understood him, but his style didn't appealed to me right right now. I looked at him and I thought I didn't feel until mandated by his presence rye. Why fed items like Johnny, and even I can see that with you that year, you're you're all in and you you're not afraid. You have the vulnerability of being all in like this is it. You know it's gotta be word for some EU, but this is what it is right. Well, I just I just think or the thing that I wanted for our band for myself was just that we were ourselves right. You know it

however flawed I don't know even sometimes when I was backward or sometimes when it seem like. I was like an like an asshole. I did it didn't matter. It was all I had to use the word offending kids just stare. We didn't have any artifice artifice right now. We have an end. I, if I sensed artifice or because of repetition, YO a lack of complete, engage meant. Then I would like the Mentally County council myself about that cause. I don't I don't want that. I just wondered I just thought of another great perform a lot Morley. What a great perform area homely! Isn't he wisdom awesome performer, here is another one that had you could feel him. It was like shamanistic. You could feel entered right now, just beautiful

energy yeah, it's all about it sure. But what about some of you? temporary? What about you? What do you think I envy while he was? He was he came out before he was ass. It came in sixty years ago. I got a former here. Yeah I mean yeah he's a younger and deadly redo is older to your younger than those guys. But there around right. They left their mark on the city, a gauges started younger night, you know he was this it was started in the sixties after the of the five year I didn't. Dare I never even saw again before until Adrian little life. You know he wasn't there, wasn't on my radar Bethulia, because I guess I guess your husband. you used to hang around their house or something right. Well I mean even I mean my husband I didn't know about you know I was from Self Jersey. I didn't even hear about the velvet underground. there. You know yes lake. I came to New York,

and had to learn a lot about our present culture right and I didn't know anything about the MC five right yeah. You know when I first saw Fred. I just saw him is, as the guy in you know are grown and that was that here and how your kids good my gizzard there there are great my my daughter does works tire of tireless Slayer burn in Hell, for climate change. Awareness is a non profit, she's a musician and she writes. and my son is a great guitar player as a family. They're awesome, my kids are just they they magnify the best of their other, and I see myself some within the men. I love my kids

gray. Sometimes we all play on stage together and I love my kids Is there always my kids year? My son is come up with once we were playing. I don't, I think, we're or in Spain or something there is life thirty thousand p. a lot of festival, and my son was playing on leave guitar that night and we run some song. I can't remember I'm singing the chorus. and then there was a breakdown and my son is gone. Mom, mom, mom and I'm boil any Santa having a little rough time. He was having a little rough time. Physically said. I don't know what kind of sola be doin but do the best. I can and I still get do the best you can jack but we're like talking.

he's always my Sandia, I'm always harm in already laid great, but please you now. I remember also We were toying with Bob Dylan in Summary, poor, and I asked him what, so like having your mom is your mom and Ngos she's. My mom she makes dinner she's yell at Auschwitz, the clothes- and that is the best- serve all I dont want, be anything else but but mom to my kids. What he had a lot of time there were. You could really focus for awhile right. Well, they were quite young when they lost their father, but six since twelve, but but when their father was alive. We were always with each other every day to spread night, both left public life and we live very simply and we're always together in a way so.

we have a lot to. Remember. Fear unaware all that time to gather information, but also date. They just my daughter, place piano. She sounds like Fred, I myself. Sometimes it is playing guitar and just two. comes the faces he makes or the town city trawls you're very unique. There were very active Fred and I've stones. Asian actually almost burst into tears here and my son play it's. So much would sound just like his father. and he wouldn't even be conscious of it, while I bet you find out just in there just carried. Ah yes, absolutely at his eyes, its spend proven to me that You know we know. There's so many ways that we. We become, though we are, you know from the people let nurturers and from you know

experience in what we study in all of these league. The influences that we have but also blood is blood, can be a gift to the earth for sure yeah. I definitely believe that's true and another Jersey guy Bruce you are you friends. What Bruce. Well, I mean, I know him I mean, don't have we're not. later we don't hanging out heard anything other We are happy to see each other better. Yeah I mean I'm sunlight, I'm I'm not really a musician, Don't really have a musician lifestyle or hang out with you. No use, since I mean even when let me and I are together were like you know, we're late two bombs area writer but Instead, all right gonna hear our friends hanging had ended, deal ended, Dylan Thing,

as he is he present in your life by leaving, I was present in my my life. No one would hear about because then there is the matter I was private man, you can imagine, but no bob not in my life except in my the way that he is he's been in my life, since I was fifteen years old and I've had time when I've spent got to talk to him a lot or sit and listened to and play in and then years not it's I don't mean on. I don't have any establishment. Patients ship with him. He knows I'm in his corner. So right. How did you like Sure you told told story story, I don't know. I just watched it. How did the the Nobel Prize GIG come up Nobel Prize job came because- they asked me to it was the Nobel people right I play allowance

and actually sort of you know a light in Sweden, the Nobel people asked, if I would sing for who ever one day literary lore. You know who won for the opera prize for literature in that year. There was some talk, it might be more commie, yeah oh, I thought I would sing a song wing because of the wind, a bird chronicle. Well, it wasn't it now to be Bob Dylan, and then I I thought. Oh my gosh, I singing I'm gonna be singing for Bob. I, I can't believe it sing one of my songs. I should sing one of his. I chose Our drain hark gonna fall because I held it, even though it was an early song and encompasses everything his poetry, his you know, his is him you, man

a day, his sense of the environment. His sense of you know all of the things that he believed that we all believe in are in that song, and I thought it was the perfect her. You know yet great. Way to introduce him and of course I had this terrible at this those strange way, doubt nerves, but that is one of the greatest moments of life. performing I've ever seen in my life, a its it is so personal it. So the way it can have. I know muslin just a horrible for you, but ass it was. I thought I would die. Yeah I can I really I don't have any when it comes to perform an I don't mind growing up. Anything and I squirrel belied, but it's my

screw up here, but we were another person's work, especially Bob Dylan, who is as men. How much to me right. My whole Is it was a it was terrible, but but the self correction of it was beautiful because it was ultimately an act of respect and you know, but it that moment where you make the decision to the Ike wait a minute like every time I will I should like. Oh my god as a performer, like idea, almost makes me cry because it's because it so on it's so honest and yet I don't know, I thought it was great and everybody. It seem like everybody kind of woke up and realise that they were seeing a human. It was an amazing moment. Well it all its. universally to to people that way and I'm grateful for that because at the moment, with the orchestra behind me in

in these cameras because they were global cameras going all over the world it out now of cameras, looking down and the king and queen of of Sweden and all the noble lords sin and all of this expectation and then suddenly to just freeze I just froze. I mean a song the by new backwards and forwards. Just suddenly escapement off at them I didn't know what to do. I ve never I've had these things happen: me on stage. Right can laugh and make a joke. I say: well it like we'll do this and then talk to the people. I've had paranoid where I had to actually taught myself down with the people and say, I don't know what's wrong with me, but I feel really self conscious and people are always with you I know that people most of the time people are with here. If, if they come, they are gonna, be with the right it was

stuff, it's the way so humiliating and so frightening, but it turned out that you know it made people people seem to identified, because everybody has these moments where there the worst? What moments uncivilized everybody has these moments? I guess it's just decided to be. The poster poster girl further were as moment of your later, but I I don't know if it s eyes you all about it now like, I feel about everything. If its. If it served anybody, then it's ok, we're in a box that says you gotta serve somewhere serve yeah yeah. I know it's. It's seem to serve people

Did he say anything about it, not to me directly bed, I I know from the family that everyone seem very happy facing contact with good will with with them thing, while its great talking to you I wanted. I was gonna talk more about some of this. This line the evidence of an awareness of the relative value of insignificant things like it seems a year like you. I see some of your photographs too, and I have a lot of little things that that really become personal magic object, sort of like Yo Yo triggers of of of emotion and nostalgia and and place in time. I love that apply creation of that and I like the way you look at them. Thank you mark that so nice. Well, I guess we ve done mosey on, but I had. This was really fun

great. I wish I could sometimes a little more articulate, but I'm just night my You know I become very mentally abstract in these months, but really fun to talk. No thought it was great, and I love talking to you- and you know who is always telling me that we wanted wanted us to you- know: Barry skills you're he's. My is one of my favorite people. He is really I've been blessed to have him. Is that, as a crew member and a friend- and I dont know if you know this but you know he has my husband's motorcycle a really. I don't know this, my spend had a hardly a sports stir and bury- and I just had it in a year you know now, none of us right, a motorcycle liner was you know you can't leave a motorcycle for years, not right doing anything and back

dream I found out was to have a hardly sports sports sports and he is really has really taken He has loved that very also, I have to say reminds me of my late brother, tired. I always say he gets the tardy award and bear Are you out my brother was the head of our crew when, when we performed in the seventies and ended bury became the head of our crew? when I will return to performing in the nineties and done here. This really shepherded that that that motorcycle, because everywhere He named sonic after flowers grinning its sleep. He had it. On our heads great. I didn't know that, like I know him from doing Conan ay I as a comic he Hill healed, detailed work,

Am I guitars. Occasionally will talk about this in that, but he's a great guy, but he always used to say like Lakota, they talked a patty. You guys got attire the gipsies we spend the money keeps, then you have to do business in the half dead and he entered about being in one's corner. He is in your corner. That's for sure that three one I just want to acknowledge that day is a great guy net. You know he was always championing Yes and I'm glad it happened me to love, to do it again. Sometime cause, there's a million things. We could talk. Ok, I can sit help. We impersonal, you know like me, you will get back to some sense of normal, come to New York with the microphone them will do it. Although I forgot the way I mean I'm gonna cost, the any interviews I ve I've done in the past six or seven it's a ban on the anybody. So Actually, I almost forgot that when I you just talking

it's not great, I'm gonna so happy that you we got involved in the zoom thing and any end. to work it out. Yet all right, we'll take care yourself is officially view deserve even zoomed, Patty Smith, thanks Mark talk the again soon Lubbers, so much Fatty Smith. The book is here the monkey and everything else she's ever done to listen to those first, three or four records Dan. Right out of the gate. Just fucking mind, blown and remember doc, memory filmmaker and self described anxious. New Yorker John Wilson serves as writer, director cameraman producer and narrator of the all new HBO docking comedy series how to with John Wilson in a unique We areas odyssey of self discovery and cultural observation, Wilson, films, the lives. this fellow new Yorkers, while attempting to give every day

by some related topics. How to John Wilson, an HP original streaming October, twenty third on HBO Max, live like a tree. Neil dean raise got easy DC and let there be talk today and now our place in bitter now I'll. Do it.

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