« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 1177 - Johnny Flynn

2020-11-23 | 🔗

Johnny Flynn and Marc already developed a rapport while they were road-tripping through Canada. They were playing David Bowie and Bowie’s publicist at the time, but they still got to enjoy each other’s company. Now they get to converse just as themselves, as they talk about the movie they made together, Stardust, as well as Johnny’s personal journey from a fishing boat to acting school to rock bands and record contracts. Johnny also brings up a bit of advice Marc gave him when they were on the road that changed the way he looked at his life.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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What's happening, I mark Mare- and this is my podcast W you're. Welcome to it. You right. What are you doing? What do you do for thanksgiving it? You keep a tight He lay low. You keep in house like not not people. come into the house. The weird thing it's happening on all levels in terms our people, seem to understand this virus. It seems kind of clear to me that their figuring out how to treat it a little better, but that doesn't mean it's not a heinous, dangerous erratic. In terms of how it affects each individual bit of toxic viral. Contagion. it's worse now than it's ever been. That's that's the odd thing I mean it, that's indicative of something going. Are you guys all right? I don't want the fuckin virus,
today on the show I talked to Johnny Flynn, he was he play day, with both in the film that term there. gonna, be an that's opening soon, I believe it opens on Wednesday from not mistaken. Yes, why? this day November, twenty fifth in fear. There is an on demand. The fish star dust with me. and Johnny Flynn you might know him as a recording artist. He says, is get several records people enjoy in using the movie a beast in the movie Emma sanity. Origin Series called love sick. and I talked him today. The interesting thing about that movie That is the sort of weird it's it's amazing to me what people get, how they director anger The other was its immediate reaction to the initial promotion of his film from from people who were like we die.
Bowie. Nerds worked up upset. that they didn't think David wanted a movie about him that didn't think, They do not allow the music but I'll. Tell you one thing about this movie, if not I'll pick it's a little window into a period in time and David's wife, where he wasn't quite sure,. How he was going to do what he wanted to do or who he was necessarily it's. It's an important, cross roads in any creative persons, wife if they're conscious enough to be to know her standing there and I don't think any of us really picture David Bowe. Is being in secure or unsure of himself or not really knowing how to take the next step creatively, but we should It's one. Those things review work at all, different decisions. You made about his own character, and persona in this, and that it would be. When did that start? How did that start? What was the decision making process? This is sort of a a
a very engaged and respectful exploration of that of that money we're David Bowe, we didn't know who David boy should be or who David boy was. It's called still opens Wednesday, the twenty fifth this Wednesday in feed there is an streaming. Enjoy that I know a d the hold out the both loyalist to refuse to believe. somebody you Eddie, fifty your career pudding, things out into the world allowing spreading himself out to be judged and criticise, then appreciated and celebrated in demanding a certain, out of recognition and admiration and understanding that debt anybody should sort of he got up and say why won't understand more. I want to. I want to explore David Bowie.
in a piece of writing a book record, a movie public people, public artists, specially great ones, are pro, active there provocative to other artists who make stuff. This is those things this is part of that stuff, start, as is the name of the movie, but speaking of the the plague and the fact that things how things have changed your mind? how terrified we all were when it started what we were doing washing boxes. Leaving boxes outside washing vegetables, washing our hands not going in thy places running in and out of places. We learned a few things about the disease about the spread of it about your weather. Boxes were say for how much we should clean. Things surfaces. might not, but we ve lost, for instance added that is more contagious and we thought it was in that mask certainly helps stop the spread or women,
the spread of the contagion. But the bottom line is whatever The case however, we saw then it's worse than ever been now and people have slacked off because as they they've learned to live with the reality of it, but fortunately most people Have not had to learn to live with the disease itself. A great many people have add people and their families die or get the disease, but most people have not gotten the disease. And that is slowly changing, but the attitudes are not. I don't know if it's entitlement self centeredness a lack of empathy or giving zero fox. but the reality is this: it will. You do, don't know what it's gonna do to you when you get it.
There are people that assume a unhealthy. Doesn't matter really it may people are worthy of the Trump got treated with it. You can't have that treatment, but I'm guilty of it. This is the fuckin problem, I'm guilty of it Nobody can guarantee your safety if you're gonna do things you have You decide you have to take your, calculated risks they help. You maintain your Sandia Wanna, was your mind or get suicidal, because, the fear of disease, but you don T carry yourself, but my point being. Is that people won't. You continue doing things they want to do it. what do at least start doing things they want to do, and businesses want to start making their services available to people that want them. Whether it's a restaurant, whether it's a comedy club, whether it's a movie production they're, putting the risk on the individual the people
providing services, They know that they can guarantee your safety. No, but he can guarantee anybody. Safety really So it's on you decide so make sure you, your straight with your mind in your heart, in terms of the decisions are making and also- you have to remember that it's not all about you. That seems to be a very difficult thing: fur people, not american, just people myself included. I'm inconvenienced, I mean being a choice to take a risk. because I want to be able to do certain things. What if that puts a lot of us people at risk. I'm not I'm not not going to talk to I'm not going to do that. I'm not don't do that? That's not who I am, but you If you do this, I don't know I don't know, but I'm not gonna, it's it's Reality are right. Ok, I know. I know that I think is what
that the core of most people's behaviour right now in most people's rash innovation in justifying you poke added just enough. You'll, get like. I know. I know I know it's dangerous, I get it look we're all angry man. Supported, take, carry yourself it's from important, not to kill people with your lack of concern. earn or irresponsibility. Hey? Can I say something here: you're not if you're dealing with any of these things, anxiety, depression, depression, relationship, conflict, anger hard for everyone out there and better help online counselling offers licence professional therapists a train to listen and to help it's a simple process. You got a questionnaire to help, assess your specific needs and then get matched with accounts, or in under forty eight hours, you can easily schedule secure video or phone sessions plus x, unlimited messages to communicate with therapist at your convenience
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Finally, I am doing something proactive. Something people told me to do for years. That could make it difference in my life. Why do I fight that shit also another? word about Thanksgiving, don't look at. We, of course in the mouth, is that what this is everybody complains about their fuckin families nonstop over the. How dare you don't have to go. You can just say I can't because I don't want to die or kill you so stop. ask me to come. You know I shouldn't, I know, right there, mom just tell dad. You have a work. I I love but I'm not going to be there and then you hang up that phone and go. Oh, my god. This is a gift. It's a gift I want to take a minute to tell you about an awesome way to pay the people you know and trust in its called zone
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is met. He saw the world period. The movie opens this. Wednesday November twenty fifth and theatres and on demand and I met him on the set and death is the first time we really talk since we ve done the moon, so this is a Johnny. when and me talking. I see your instagram posts when you're doing the live ones. Pastor, Yes, every now and then, when you just like ripping arrive Russia, India and I that post as well to be there in the in the flesh. I mean yeah. You know. Obviously I am not as good egg, tar player as you and that's not true. I do my bit does not change. He had its true. can't finger pick man. I was listening to some of your occurred yesterday and destroy like fuck man. I gotta. Why can't I fingerprints
you can try, you can do what is it, how long's it taking out a practice forever. I was lucky. I was unlike a thing, Is it all about eight, twenty, two and tat there was one guy in the company you haven't. Hake is like a master of that thing. It thing- and I oh yeah, we were touring around the world knows like this. Is my and my for a year doing two Shakespeare players and I was quite a lot of the time and I just decide this is my does my year, I'm gonna, do it, Apprenticeship, The anger pick and thing is TAT: master yeah but hey, I'm not now I'm fingerstyle mediocre, but but I did that year doing so you can do your thumb separate from the other fingers. I can do that but what I really wanted to be able to do is flat between Peck say Richard Thompson. Has this dialogue and a cup of value I think, Lightning Hopkins did I our way-
instead of the because the DOT Watson way is this discipline thumb where you go beyond the atom bomb and they re on rum pump up a bum and If you can do the if he d with a flat pack holding between thumb and forefinger, what you would do with the thumb and then you move everything down once you have to use your your little finger, pink ranger, that's what you did. That's what I do, because it means I can tear into you know I can go into a into a solo or you know when I'm with the brand or whatever right or you could do big is big rhythm. With the yeah yeah yeah. I can go back and forth right. Well, get you know I'll get it. You could do I mean I'm just it's. I've got I can do it a little bit, I'm a little better, but not that style when we jumped in and wherever there was a hamlet in an hour Milton Ontario yeah weariness in the state in doing so. The cost of right
yes right and I was like is like a refugee bunker. There was right here. You ever everyone can hear us right besides. I was really blown away by. I thought shit. I can't I can't keep up so, goodbye. Nor have I know you are, in my view, a great your great. Talking about Peter Green for four eyes like spreading of the gospel of Peter Glee inside a seat I was I was listening, send today they were thinking about you, but you know: that's gonna, really deep icily I ate, and now I am now I'm like I'm a cab, evangelical, footsore tone, and he was right. I used the tone master right. Are you that guitar man that guitar had the weirdest tons. I was noticing that too, when I was listening to the records that at some point,
because I had a kind of catch up on. You know what you do, but the like, as the records moved on, it seemed like you're, electric tone, God dirtier, yeah yeah. I allows me, or the Peter Green Business here I bet, the I was always into that stuff and, to be honest, I pay my please I was a little bit sniffing about like Chicago Blaize, you and I was a bit of it. not not not Paris but like I saw into like old country, please show and that that fingers stuff and that you know Charlie Patten and oh yeah, yeah yeah, I mean oh those guys sure that yeah, it It took me a while to accept that, because there's a bit more showmanship to it and actually reading the book that you gave me the path is loud, things code, it's great right, yeah, yeah, yeah, you game and and thinking about,
the technology. and seeing light and just allow me actually need to go on a journey with that bets. I've been I've been listening to Bb, king and that kind of stuff and thinking yeah this one? You can do this now, yeah, it's a middle aged thing, but the tone journey you're on the tone journey yeah I bought leads of pedals and everything I'm just. Oh, my god, yeah I stay away from the pedals. Just get your sulphur vintage vendor amp yeah- I do I have. I have a please deluxe, yet they are the best near ready, ass, so right what's good to see a man eater, you t. So what do you think of the movie when you watch a movie, our movie star dust? I really I mean I thought I thought is really sweet right. You know it's it's a small, it's a small right home it simply so pissed off at the trolls about like with the a we family didn't want it in the care of what are you
I can't even pay attention to it. I feel bad. You know just just of like just shut, shut up and don't see it. If you don't want to see it, it's not a biopic. No, it's it's! It's a movie about this weird little. However, in time, is a dangerous, some dangerous attitude to have as well. It's a kind of council culture, bullshit unit is the Movie is journalistic end and his and objectivity that I think Gabriel wanted by not being in bed with the estate. Being disrespectful to this subject: budgets having that were thrill object, if it's in there to tell luxury they want is really. It was Be about you know, our artistic evolving as an artist and trying to sort of source the the the kind of impulses that boy had had and and and where is creativity came from, an early age, it's not some sort of arching thing and also in sort of a kind of an interest,
think Buddy Film yet comes down to you and me yeah, no sweet. I like I like road movies, You know, and we went we went on that journey. We were hanging out there. It was cool yeah, I'm really not that horrible car in those hard places the issue very quickly with do you remember the dp yeah he's aids? Is eighty now he's but he's got what any has hearing in one year and he has one vocal could it was crazy eight year old, dp running around but he's like they're real deal. Man he shot John Lennon and all that stuff yeah. He can make it look like the like. The real thing, which is all of that is, I think, what makes it good and it's. I was surprised how good it look dude, because when he she'd Sutton, that quick, I'm just like. Are you sure you got it to you? Are we good yeah we move on here? I know I think you did a great job, think it's I was talking to somebody said yeah. If I
wanted. I could you know you look like if I squid I get there. I didn't do enough case, but I heard How many kids you got now nine year, three I want it eyes. I see an apology. I've united is funny something that's been bug. You know the day they came to San and then If you remember they spy thought about, it afterwards were having lunch. And I, like you said on the table in and we were coming into the room to find a place to sit in Europe there on your own in the table This thinking on his lunch baby beat. You know he doesn't want to be bothered by these screaming. Yet I know what they're like when they get going in the right direction, this woman locusts sooner? But here and there We set on a different on a different table. Looking over like oh did you want to sit
with me and I and I felt, and then I set off to it's like. Oh I'm, sorry, we didn't sit with you and you were like. Oh it's all right, but I knew, the icy in a moment, I thought he would have been ok with it and I wanted to say it was only that I was trying to protect to you from my mania children. I am so glad you brought it up because I've been carrying mass, it's where every time your name comes up and like fuck that guy and is yes, you're, not when you, I find it a nerve for now it there. It was fine, so like Where was I I got him realise in I kind of did the little home but that you did it I don't know what the musician shepherding like. It seems to me that the acting like it, something you always did was both of them right away. I grew up in it whether the attic, where do you, where we, where you from I'm know
What good is really complicated. We buy grew up mostly in on the South coast and a little village in an accountable Hampshire, which is right pretty, but not much happening. In England in England yeah then, and then, when I was about fourteen, my parents moved to a fishing village in West Wales to to this, to beautiful, beautiful, close So village and am- and I worked on a fishing boat there growing up so I buy you wear, He bore. No, why I was born in South Africa. My dad was an actor. He was on tour with a player and my mom, whose parents had gone out to South Africa to be? teachers was living in South Africa. She met my dad they they. command. They had me, so your dad was on a tour in South Africa beer. He was turning a play here. So was he a big?
after a while, he was kind of begging England, at the time in the UK, He did like age actor stage and a better. Like he played Ivanhoe in a BBC thing. Ivan. He was in Disney doktor sin. Sixty He did a lot of b movies and he did a hammer, movies and stuff, but he was like an Rsc got you like a stage- and I am saying he sang and right son said he- he had a similar dynamic to mean he often within musicals and stuff. In the days when musicals were kind of credit cards, so your Mama South African yeah, I mean she's born there, yet her parents were set of british by the sand, but she was yeah yeah so when he so your dad if there for a while when she was pregnant with you're here there. they ve moved there. He just drop everything he had Is there really loved her? I think he did ass. He did
yeah. He had a family, he had three kids, the youngest of which, with some sixteen so was no small thing. He left. You know he went out. so he was married when he fell for your mom. You but they were sitting. My understanding is that there is a separated that they'd market kind of gun their own when she met somebody, the first I've met somebody. At the same time it was actually My dad's friend and we and I'm very I'm very close with them. So I that's not around anymore, but my dear the first wife and and and have found that they come to see me plays and they you know I go and visit them that we had Christmas together. It's really and you've got a bunch of half brothers yeah yeah. They. two half brothers and a half sister and they did the brothers are both actors as well, I looked up one of one of them look familiar. He looked scary here, he's it that way the scary ones in in game of thrones, but he anyways, I can use the nineties
He also weirdly had a kind of pop career in the nineties and the Uk Accidental one cause. He sang a song in a show that he was in and then he got offered money to put it out as a record. What's that guy's name Jerome Flynn, my re Flynn yeah, so you got a bunch of actor singer, you kind of, but very you know we were right. about it and we're very different different from each other, then my sister is also an actor okay, I never know what it when it say: actor actress and she's. Things and she's in my ban, says she's another records and stuff and toes with me, and she has a great voice. And she's my full sister forces right, our youngest sister? Ok, so you grown up urine you're on the fishing boat, our view on the fishing boat, fifteen, sixteen tat today or that easy. As you know, is a life decision, the holiday just yet so right you, I wasn't a career choices, no buy stuff.
thank you is like the best job I ever had left daily lives, loves to put the eyes amazing, I mean something so mystical and peaceful, and you know simple in the exchange and kind of weird is well you're holding something up from the I saw this a fixation with the sea, a good one. I think so No, I mean I'm terrified of it like like you're, I like say you don't know, what's gonna be in the cage, I'm like yeah exactly. I assume there's there's no massive monsters under the sea and they're generally yeah, if I'm in the sea they're nearby, in my mind that we're just a few feet away from some giant monster. That day is gonna reveal, wouldn't you when you, rather that they were there than than the not their journey. It says I I just don't need to be near him, I'm happy the sea can be filled with monsters which it is. I have no problem with that,
but I dont need be swimming near them. Ok, that's my feeling here on a boat, Ok, it's eleven live right. Of course, I don't want to. I don't need to kill him. I ve seen have you seen my octopus teacher on Netflix, not yet. I watched a trailer for it. I feel like I got the idea great idea idea. It is great I think you crack openness, Look I just seem said to me: I mean how much crying do I have to do. What have the guy the guy? What follows around in Octopus Nedda dies. Yeah in what you did the trailer right, particularly. I have your it's good I'll watch it eventually Netflix is the show is for you to do the voice on the trailer. So when do you so like in this fishing
villages that where you start acting, when did you want design company? I, when I went off to drama school when I was eighteen, nineteen maybe yeah. The way you know they were. The desert of traditional rate in this country is, if you wanna, be. tat, you may you might go through university or just gonna get lucky or get spotted it whatever. But if he really. A going for you guys, drama school and it's like a vacation training like a three year course, Now it's really hard to get in yeah. You know, there's, like you know, five thousand people tend thousand people auditioning for twelve places or something I got into a good one and I was always playing music. I was, I was dying in Ban- school and stuff, and then, when I was in London, on Square started running a club night with a couple of friends. Basically just so we could play so. We could put ourselves on to play and we we put on This gave some invite all our friends
early on like what was the music, though I mean like, were you in a rock band, because I yeah in the first record. You know it was, you were doing kind of folky shit right away? I mean with that ways a thing or did you did you start with rock and then move I grew up listening so that a punk, music and loaded lake, thrashing duff and I was always. It wasn't that I was there. I think this is. Why is quite difficult, a muffin kind of opinioned by the folk circuit and I get invited to play by folk festivals and and then the ban in the traditional folk musician. is often a light through the foot who the fuck you eat anything because I don't know all those hundreds of that still goes on. Oh yeah, big that still happens. The mill in this country really yeah, really it's big and they he's coming back in a big big way. What the fuck is based,
broke into a kind of mainstream? Me said if I mean it, if he is a few I find it I find really. I was hated being called folk because I had this kind, tation of like know just something kind of really and I like: people are very brag, hoo hoo who had that energy in and they knew that the folk he was just a way of raging the political system for your written into punk rock and then the first bands, your in one the Angle- Mobility Branco verbatim. What happened was in that time in two thousand and four two thousand five, when I first started playing out lie when you're in drama school. Just yeah. coming out a jot coming out of John Disco, yeah, so you're, EAST you're playing your in drama school by Europe so playing guitar at that point yet, and you ve got as you play with and he's
hard to run a night. We again, can jam woody, what are you guys most play army? more like rock band stuff, then it's like Canada back right, I'm band yeah good! So, So then we're going to drama school now in drama school enjoy I must go. What do you do like you? What's a program you earning Shakespeare's out? Will you you do had like Moses? like it's, basically basically high school, correct or no it's college. It's college yeah, it's after school yeah, it's you know, college yeah, and the training is mostly Shakespeare. It's you have a say, spare class. You do a lot of Shakespeare plays, but you do movement, unlike it's kind of a bit lanky is a bit isabel up itself gives you everybody text, Precisely this is how kind of concept of the desert ass. I please say about breaking down and you do act, exercises where you way you stare into a mirror for ten hours and you you did try
this kind of stuff- or you do that- stuff, along with the classical stuff yeah yeah and then and then classical stuff, and I think, they're English sort of thesis sensibility is that that stuff is intertwined. and if you're, really rebellious than your reading books eyes. Reading interviews with Stella had learn, unlike that's you sure, that's kind of yeah? No that's like fifty years ago, that's avantgard in, like english drama schools, Guy there that there they don't do that they're, not method. There are not more classical, not so much yeah they and their quite proud of that, as they think that that's the the generally. But we also had some interesting directors who had come in. They would expire thus to these kind of individual know minds and creatives. Who would just do their thing and, and that was cool
I don't know it's a way of becoming like people proof if you're like in a fire company where every week you're doing a different play and rap kind of thing at the end and then right, yeah and is, running time is running the club knights and I was playing. I was asking sometimes on the South Bank night in London, United is going down my guitar eyes running at running everywhere. guitar on my back and and from somebody's house to play this job. To do this thing. Was it was it always? The plan, though, was it there wasn't both of them kind of ran equal with you, music and acting. It wasn't like you know you You were doing the acting. What you wanted to do more music. There were just sort of both what you did, because it seems that way here, at that point. I didn't really believe that I would it in either thing. So I working very working really hard and I really wanted to take acting seriously because I've been music scholar at school, which meant that I
been playing a lot of classical music get serve to get jobs for life. Erin. I bet they violin and stuff like that. Oh you can read music and play violin here. Is that you playing the violin on those early records, yeah yeah, the value that does some wild, weird violin, oh and there's some cello as well. That's quite out there as well. That's not me yeah! It's not me tell is not me so out there hello. Would you where'd you pull the outside the out their cello from like John John Caille, those Sancho is an inspiration for that They were and are less the way were another ties with the bad you know I wanted to. I wanted to have. Are you sure you don't want to get to that? First, sound yet, but I wanted to make loads of things together. Basically, I wanted to have. Well. That's all that's the thing I notice is like in the imo a curious about the folk yeah real folk, fake folk war.
because out of nowhere like a few months ago, a guy. I got turned on to the incredible string ban and and didn't? I didn't know their shit. I didn't know anything about him. I was going through this book of like the hundred essential rock records. You know and, and I have most of em and the ones I dont have a like. He had oh, but There is the incredible string dynamic. I know nothing about these guys yeah. So I bought one record. yeah. I got it wasn't even the farmers daughter or the hang and daughter record it was maybe the first. I gotta, listen, there's an album. The circle is unbroken listening. Very first one yet, and I was Why you're my mighty self titled and I was like holy shit. What the fuck is this Yeah. Then I got this. The second record, your the FAO, the five thousand layers of the whatever year, then that right, I think, that's the best one, the annex great there then
hence daughters goodbye. I think that the layers of wherever back my fate so since your question. I discovered that stuff like sitting they sixties? I suddenly discovered like a like fair put convention and the incredible? band and a lot of those early island record things this. The angle pentagonal yeah- and I say this- really cool got such a thing and it's so rooted in my own tradition. You know my my right gaelic list. This is my inheritance. You know this is he and I I read this interview with with Fairport convention, because I love, I love Richard Thompson. I love this out he's insane. I know that guy he's, like he's the
so good he's amazing? I interviewed him and then, by coincidence he was playing the night before I played in Dublin and we ve got there and I was all jet lag and turn inside out, but I went down then you can use plain there and I just interviewed him a few weeks before so we actually knew me. He had a frame for me, and I was able to hang out with him backstage, but I've never seen him lie before man keeking he can I want to get our inside out here, where he that it's his it's his arm, picking style that I copyright, that's what I went right and the open the lesion leaf. yeah well Legion. In these days. That was huge for me, but the Vista did with his now Ex wife with Linda we Richard and went albums best man is so good an either by all of em, I know that that stuff so quite spread out but went hearing that stuff you go. This is rooted in something that I have a right to play.
You know that these sums are influenced by scales that are in my idiom. You know their interest in my bones. Through my you know: I am from in and I grew up playing. We were wet, but where is examined written our? I only read what yeah I might you know my dad was said of Irish but yeah. I am I grandfather. My dad is scottish. My mom's welsh Right and my dad's mom was was a cockney like a proper. can a Londoner. I use you just you felt like it was. You know it was a historically propria in that you know you lived in breed this stuff somewhere through my little annex looking for some authenticity, some sense of belonging and an idea in the big thing I say, listen to that upon can stuff grant, but the big For me is Dylan like huge, like, ah still he's, I'm a disciple of Dylan and and everything that that lead
it's a you know whether it's like the pool, but I always please Maso Asia he's four Minnesota, but ok! Now you that's what I mean by night. I I wonder how many guys, It is that, but I can't I can't just rip off, and so I have to be who I am and then I am off everybody. If you stop feeling you've been ripping off ever since figure that out, but but that, in that beautiful amazing is a core value, is the same heap. He just smashed all these things together in an absurd, and it became his own, unique thing right the story that we told me to go back to that. To bring it back So it was really. It was the kind of those those kind of psych folk. and rock folk bands of the mid to eight sixties. That kind of blew you away. I could see that man, because I had never heard you know I've just got the pen tangle record, and I I found them. I thought they would be a little boring.
But I just got my first pan tangle record after getting all over the Fuckin incredible string ban records and there equally as as interesting, because The way that the thing I what about the incredible shrink, then, is that they were using Pizarro instruments. You know international instruments, but they word showcasing them. They were just integrating them everything, sort out balance. It wasn't like worried. Brian Jones, on the sitter. It was like they honour the sound and integrated into something that fell very loose, but had a lot of sense. to it, but hung together so beautifully. It was almost like each one of those records is some sort of you know kind of miracle of unity. I dont know how they do it, but it doesn't feel like they sounded. a lot of times like they were really playing all at once and there wasn't much separation yeah. I a man when I, when I first heard the I've, had light spiritualist Parents is listening to the incredible string ban. It feels like, like an have writer
but without tee. I that you feels like. Is that really? What you just said is the looseness and and they just yeah their hearts like searching for something together. It's like so it's exquisite and am it's crazy, yeah mean nuts, not just that all you have to done this book white vice, Joe Boyd Virginia had an I have. It is really good, but he tells the story of when he when he discovered them in an and than recording the Draken. All those guys is ready and his First job was he was the tour manager when he was like twenty. He took like Reverend Gary Davidson's Razetta, Thorpe sunny, Terry and Brownie Magee all around Europe, as the manager of this blue train to and he's, and he can't keep them together and they're all like fighting and it's really cool wow. I gotta breeding season sit on my bed table forever, scrape
So so now you ve put together this. This is what you ve decided your legacy. Is you know you ve mashed, if your brain with the fair poured in Thompson and and tango and incredible string, band and Dylan, and then you, but what what sort of comes first through you, I mean we're out. How do you decide gives it seems? Like you started doing some, some television, the media, that the average right- and it was a point earlier on where I was really passionate about being an actor, and I wanted to work in like new writing. Theater. I wanted to work at the roll call votes, which is like a political issue writers there, so they they just have writer's name his name, the headlights, the, and I worked. I I was in fact I was an usher. This place called the Bush, which is like it was a room above a pardon I, I saw is amazing. Little studio play is a bit like the old days, step and move forward a black box, yeah yeah, kind of data that you
it is changing the world. You know one one mind at a time: cutting changing the world with an audience of seven years. At a time here, not even sometimes just three yeah but You know I got out of college and because the eyes- and I got an agent and the various We'd, better get. You know I was. I was being signed up for these things, get on a tv show or something and realize that this isn't. Where my heart, Is this? Isn't what I wanna do? I couldn't get a job in those places I wanna wanted to work. So I and then I can and I put more into the music as it was an eye I would use. I would get a tv job and I would use the money to pay my band. Said I got injuries uneasy. It seemed fortunate. You know because you're you know you're twenty years younger than me, so you know and you're liking a lot of the things that I liked, which was you know, be before my
Time is well. Even the sixties was before my time that we all are sort of in Greece, asked in this wave of all that stuff that was done before us by, but lucky that you romanticize this stuff, because it seems that you know whether or not that theater that you wanted to be part of was actually changing minds or not, and I had the same thing you like this stuff is He is making a difference, but just whether it was or it wasn't or whether or not. You know that that sort of sentiment has repeated itself with young performers. It did enable you to have some set of personal integrity around knowing what you didn't want to do and held you out of you know like, I'll do the tv gig but I'll fund over money into something that I have complete control over yet terms of my expressing my creativity yeah I mean I'm. I am, I still believe you, I think I think united Legged, evolve underground. United. Does that
that whenever unquiet, snake the ban. The only a hundred people died, but gods from and then and then now you know and now every band you know and it all bleeds down. I just can't I think when you really invest in stuff with integrity, it pays dividends like on a global scale, even if he only play that show for three people or whatever I I don't know. I just. I think if you apply that to everything sure I think that's true and I and I think that yeah I've definitely done my share of shows for nobody, and I I think, if anything, it does kind of harden your resolve around what you're doing and and make you better. And then you know, there's always gonna be like one or two people that are like. Do you remember that night, when you a form for four people and that one guy through something that you know like yeah fuck yeah, he's like a as the best I ever saw, I am glad you are one of the four that side yeah, but but when you're going back and doing the music, I mean
you decide you were you writing songs just on the guitar and then your kind of building them out it's hot, describe. What doing I was like. I was just can of doodling. All the time as I was a lot of, why did was was lyrically Bay you know I was I stay ass, I studied them. How does a note books in it. all those years of being a student and being in London and being broke. And and and stuff I just my way, processing things. I never kept a diary that I would get on the internet. We ve got tube. Ok, it doesn't actually go in a circle anymore, but I used to be able to go on the tube and go in a circle and just stay on and stay on. The line and I would get on in the morning and, get off for in the afternoon and just go round and round, and I just wanna go away processing. See
faces and scribble in my my notebook. If I didn't have anything to do or advice on the bus. No. I I think I have a and I think that kind of thing suits me very Well, just I d just the world and it comes out in lyrics and a little melody mine stuff Walking around you know, you'd idolized, always huh they'll tunes in NAM I have to run home in years before I phones and stuffs after sure, to find, then I would find go through. I had hundreds of notebooks. I go through the notebooks and match the right lyric to the right melody and is like a Jake so for me I was listening to so much music and collecting music because it was all still kind of cities- and you know we're almost- was a virgin I'd really hated when the digital thing came in case of so proud of these boxes of cities that I'll caravan behind I spent years
now you don't even know where they are. I got a fucking. I got hundreds of cds, I'm not even sure where they are, but now I got the record thing going, which is add a fucking control I like, I like my records here I love it. Yeah I've been by our seat would not record time seat would MAC. I was just like other, be united to Stephen I didn't get. I die broken changed your mind. You, if you were the gospel, the gospel mark You got others Peter Green. records, I do and they sound so good on the vinyl yeah. Do you know You know that song. I think I played waited for you, man of your wishing Edna jumping each year the site with the original one. Did you know that like the guy who wrote it was kind of a A british kind of an odd bridge Performer, and I just I just now I forget the guy's name now, do you know it now
hold on hold on he's like he's kind of his own weirdo, but is in its does alive version is really that's the best didn't we won. There is, but the guy's name is Duster Bennet Ray and I went out and got it does. I reckon he's kind of like this dude he's almost like a one man band guy and- weird thing about em. thinking of John Mayer produce them let's see yet he was virtuosi court, he He played he's like a one man band in this and he He plays a guitar drums and harmonica it's his song, dude and If you listen to this, it's one, those moments, you're gonna, listen, turn you, oh, my God, Peter Green Fuckin guy lifted this guy vocal style. My right, you know, as I do
what this guy wiser White place he had in the world have like they're like Mary Poppins right, but it was but you know it was like gum. you you you'll, see it like you. I who is this weirdo and I don't much about him, but I know that Jimmy Vena set its duster bennets on and then I went and got some dusty. Bennett, music and he's I totally own thing, but you can completely here his total in Florence on Peter Green, ok, cool I mean it's just I am duster. Bennett did you're gonna like oh, my god, you If my life again well, I see I just found it man. I don't know why it took me so long to check it out, because I just love the song. So I wanted to hear what the original thing sounded like I don't think in there there is no studio version of that of fleet. I'm not doing it. I I found that it is only the live one on the right track. our solo man, Jesus yeah, nice great
baby king said he found new. Only one, the only white guy that medicine we prepare the maybe you're right, I'm so like well you feel about Shakespeare, you good with it. Do you yeah, I mean like? Did you do a lot of Shakespeare? I love Shakespeare yeah. I did a lot. I did. yeah. I did that tour when I was right was kind of writing the first finger, picking tour yeah the finger picky tour and and I I looked at desire say I was bored I was never really bored it was it was. I the youngest one. Was all male than now. you know kind of modern dress, but, like we were like a traveling troop in in the man of an old Elizabeth in all male true and we went all around the world. We were in New York and the back in London, Hong Kong, Australia and we would like and then
quite they were wild these guys they were, like. You know, bunch of guys I've ever and and and. Really fun yeah: it was really rogues and nearly died, but it was it I loved nearly die from person. yeah they just yeah. I won't go into details they've. Laid they played hard and they They were putting you through your prices. Yeah they're, like let's see what this kids made out of, I found the inches. I found some pictures of that Teresita. I thought fuck. If anyone sees these they're just like, It was really it was quite the Butch, but like not in a morally bankrupt way. Just just You do not get it. You again, you ate. The funny thing is is like a year. You can have ended up one of them. but they did
I am, I know some of them still there ready anyway, I cut, but then I am not saying their bad guys Johnny, but you know what I'm saying it's like you know you get taken. The pace is in either you're gonna get a monkey your back or you're, not there yet higher higher ambitions. My friend, well, they yeah, the boozing in the english states. A thing is quiet, quiet, so they go hand in hand. They have that's in the old rep companies they have. They have bars. in the side of the stage you used to be able to go get a point. While you wait for your q whatever anyway, this were straight out of that cannon and then I at the end tour. I got, I got could the US in New York. I got this colon, Universal. wanted to see me for five album deal to mercury, which is the same label. I just realized that I worked for the movie, the boy you hear that you ever saw this to mercury
for one of them and then they they promised me the world and then they take it away and they were They were really cowardly. Actually, they were kind of there you did the first hour, with them alarum yeah, I did that album. I think they were a bit shocked at how much I went into the the the folky thing They will. I was the drums and the radio hits the pop saw yeah. So but also with the two thousand and eight crash and the downloads with killing the industry and and also raise a light, was the big abandoned the written on the label and they bombed their last out and burn, so they were like Having said you know, you're your career artists, you can do whatever you want. They Ok, now give us five radio hits his five thousand and you have to demo five radio.
a sure fire, you know a class bangers, otherwise you're you're out and I am I think I just handed in like the sound of like dogs, fighting icon purpose, I just cut out of the deal they rebel fuck? You man? playing your game It didn't suit me, and I just this was a very It was was very, very uncomfortable thing Actually I mean you know me, I'm I'm kind of shy. I and I felt They were pushing something that I wasn't happy with an adequate. I don't know what they want it for me. I just anyone, but out of them, record do the first record when they, so considering there were no record says TAT I sold like. I don't know. It says are now, but in the first year delight, fifty thousand Sunday was pretty good
We run only bread sign to last highway in the states which is in a Johnny cash in hand, Williamson everything that was a big army now for the first time in gains those offices and banning them. I always felt like a bit of an impostor possibly decide. What am I doing like. I suggest. be playing the small club in I just I don't know you light There has been pushed too hard and I think I said yeah, but you became very popular right. Yeah I guess so. I think if I, if popular. I think it is because I was honest trying to be honest. All the time like That was what mattered to me. I don't want to sell any bullshit and ironically, if your popular, because of that then
you know pretty soon, you're going to be happening. Yeah. You know, you can't see the people that you're trying to be honest to and then and then you know, there's nothing else to do, but to sell bullshit, so it becomes vacuous. You know if you guys play if you, if you, if you're, that the person you wanna play in clubs for twenty people, but you get out and you get put on a support tool for fifty thousand people or whatever it's not right, not necessarily but did you the union do? But you do that you go out. We didn't know the way we did a little, that we did a bed of that and some of our friends with her Lecter with life Mumford sons and people at that, because it fails to me that was why the world that enabled you know that I put music. You are doing to find some sort.
public following was that there was a kind of like folk e singer, songwriter e many people on stage we any different country instruments here, but you ain't it. What do we see what's he doing another sense, but you re like, I'm trying to claim that listening, but there wasn't there. Wasn't anyone doing it with it was the way to go because it was rebellious to see name it. Have you any idea existing pop music yeah, that was, it was the end of that what they called the new rock revelation like the strokes and the high rate of that stuff and and me and my friends were putting on his club knights and we we felt like I don't know if we wanted to be original and so the way to be original was to get your case to guitar and forgotten. goodbye yeah, and then you know you know
those guys are really sweet and the first time we came to America, they were supporting. Me and lower modeling and then they because if the formula that music and just how it connects to people that they went huge, and they, and then they would invite us until his own people always affiliated us, but I see, you know we were sitting around their record came out around the time. Our second record came out kind of thing. The Mumford record here. They all the other ones. Aren't there are the women errors? Are they another one of that type of thing? I see their american there, the guy later, the guy who produced our first record, did that big hit for them that we did it. We may airs yeah. We made up s record in Seattle and a second echoed with an american producer, because I was asked, I think,
You know I wanted some of the energy of that like Grunge, know the purity of that, and I was in love with the pixies. And that their melodies and the courtiers, I wanted to see what would happen if you put that in the voice of it in a guitar thing. What seems it between Shakespeare between Shakespeare and Fairport Convention and incredible, A string band handed pixies and Bob Dylan. By giving your sword eyebrow aware of way of what you dig, but like I notice that there was sort of an evolution of production then sound going on throughout the four or five records as they evolved kept to the core. You kept the core of who you are in terms of writing. some of the instruments by theirs, definitely a shift in gets. Our town and the number of instruments and and certainly there the production became more defined as he went on there were there were there were their hits.
No, I mean we're not a hit back. You know, that's just not something that I'm striving for, but it's weird I mean. Sometimes it happens yeah you know. Well, we have yeah, we've we've I've had, I suppose. Oh I get a bit like awkward talking about it, but the certain songs have become like radio favorites. The other day I was in the kitchen, and so I wrote a song which was used for the theme tune for a show which was popular here called the detectorists. And I write his son him in it and in this area, in Spain on the radio like all the time an airport maybe once or twice a week. Somebody come up to me or attack me on the shoulder and or write to me. on nine and say we're getting married in a week. You know, can you sing a song or we're gonna play the some. How often do you gotta get the grew, a wedding and duties on? Never never that's a floodgate, I don't want to yeah for you. I wanted
you also said said something that stuck with me We were working together, which is, I was like. I was a bit washed up with playing live at the time, I was telling you about it, a new like it's really simple just day something new every time: that he said something that scares you and you said that every time you working you're doing a movie in a different town or whatever you book into the local comedy, store and right you do it. You do a bit and yeah since then I've, always you on whatever it is. I just animal. So I say yes to things are no fucking terrifying. I was scared to come under this by the way, because I'm a fan of the show right but just I'm now into doing shit. That scares me and it's because of you. So that's cool! does, and I was working for you spread in my I parameters. You know why I'm living on a different scale of
I know that the worst that can happen his eye, I freaked out, and it's not so bad. Exactly yeah, but you know that also it puts you into a sort of present. Do you know what I mean like you know you? Can There's a response. You get to stuff that you ve polished, that's Like rewarding, but to sort of step, out there, you in being the type a guy you are with the sort of design. Air for authenticity, that there those moments where you take those kind of chances and the it's a much different experience in terms of how you connect yeah, you know in it connects to connects to you know. You know if know, we'll get man. Well, that's good! You do your written, that's good! Thank you thanks! but alongside I mean either there, it seems to me that you are known as a as a prettier significant actors. Well I mean it's you like you know, like my manager,
one of my managers, Kelly she's, a huge fan of your music and I hadn't. Even when I took the gig for start us, I didn't know you or your music right and she's like a huge fan. And I didn't even know that existed so so, but it just means that you have a very a large and dedicated van base. That is Egypt and completely based on the D. The sword not until you give your output not because you're some sort of weird overproduced hit me Chen right yeah, but it also seems that you know act Can you get a lot of credit as well, so that sort of in terms of evolving that, alongside the music, I mean. How are you conscious of that process? How did you re engaging in Europe? France and that this sort of on we're anger towards commercial, acting gigs What happened was I went off and did that
you have been when, when I got off the record deal after the theater and I've done a couple of year, Eli TV I felt I did have, maybe anything none of it was particularly satisfying for my soul, and then and am I gonna- do and then I was right, this is what I'm doing and I tried to kind of resign as an act. I wrote to my agents, I was like I'm being. I'm being a musician. Now I'm out I'm out and then because I d, I decided. I can't do it with any distraction, I'm giving everything I wanna be right out. In my view, the music bleeding thing, yeah and then the area I did it, wait for light four years years. Five, you know what we did he requests and we talk. I was I untold solidly and making the records and
We went all over the world and we had an amazing time. My banned it felt like your response. Will you know you After work so fucking hard as it I'm staying out universe, we were in it. us together, driving ourselves, sometimes when we went to America would all be in light. One kind with the drums like this, yeah and driving coast to coast. We Did that like eight time and man. I was amazing bows, so exhausted and am I needed, I was, I miss Ashton, had the inclination to tell really good, stories you know- and I loved in theatres,
and then out of the blue. I got it so you had a family right by this point. Did you want to stay home and was what I was about to have? I was about to have a kid. I didn't have a kid yet. I was off on and off with my no wife, you know being in mid twenties and then and then I go an offer from the royal court, which is the theater that I was telling about that. I wanted to work at and it's the only place I ever wanted to worry and they gave me a great job in a play with Juliet Stevenson. Could the heritage and an eye and then and then my wife got pregnant It's such a small theater that there's no understudies and they were like the baby. the babies during the last week and you have to scientists contracts they your onstage every night, no matter what so I had to agree with her that would potentially missed the birth of the baby, I did the job I didn't miss the baby. You made it for the birth and made for the boat
but then ok, so this stage, so the shifted to the acting was primarily you know you, you started a family, you are exhausted from a m. Touring too much and you got a great opportunity with the theatre that you respected and from there just kind of guy, go out. I guess I kept going yeah. And at that point I guess meeting being offered the kind of jobs that always always wanted to do, and it was lucky the lucky thing to a place where I was like. Well, it's either going to happen or it's not and it kept happening in so you got opportunities to do to do more Shakespeare and then the movies- and I guess that movie Beast- is the one that really was you Judy I like that firm, I think, was because yeah I've ever seen Jesse was amazing. He was in it with me, and it was this director, Michael Pierce, he'd spent about ten years, developing the story, and anyway, yeah stuff shit like that that that was. This is what
I dreamt of all along. I think because I looked too young when I was twenty four to play anything interesting, I looked like a fifteen year old, so I had to look like a twenty five year old as a thirty road, And then it could well now you're in well. It seems like here. You know you're aging. Well, you got a nice family going. I was excited to do the movie with you. I'm glad that I'm glad It's coming out. Yeah me too. I'm glad that the fucking, the trolls have tuck they're watching the elections there. it. You know what it's like it doesn't matter. You know, You know it was. It ultimately- and you know I got to be honest with you- a lot them will see it. It yeah it just just they're not gonna, be able to help themselves. You fuck them yeah, yeah yeah, no, exactly But I was sorry I just the thing I want is, because the trailer- and maybe the name start. I don't want
people have the wrong impression. The trader sets it up like it's this big bombastic accompaniment, it's about trailer and an amusing. None of that that music nor in our movie here, but also I could just that people are missing the idea. That is just a small story about a guy wrestling with some demons. Try I'm afraid of becoming like is his mentally ill brother and and trying to sort of figure out who he is eminently truly that's what it's about yeah, it's not like some big Bowie biotech by once it gets reviewed and once people see it that word or get out now, try to make that clear to night when I do Fallon Comin yeah nice one. It's really good to see great to see you too man yeah keep in touch all right. Buddy, I'm gonna! Do I'm gonna, send you some of the new new stuff. I've been doing it's completely different, it's not it's! Not! The only focus our Gerda, more town,
Is this the loads of red light? Johnny point the time I go about it? thanks. No less than ideal Ozma by right there you go that was Johnny Johnny talk to me. After that you said you didn't like his interview body, whose wofully wofully me he, but I think that's just the way he is, and also the movie that Johnny and I are in Stardust opens, Wednesday November twenty fifth? I would see it even if your boy, and people are liking and offered if you're feeling depressed overwhelmed her anxious, better help offers licensed online councillors were trained to listen and help talk with your counts. in a private online environment at your convenience, just fill out a question an error to assess your specific needs, then get match with accounts were in under forty eight hours, better help an affordable option and productivity of listeners. You get ten percent off your first month with the discount code,
w tee. I get started today have better hd LP that come swash deputy I've talked to a therapist online and get help Now I will play a beautiful. distorted slower. instrumental version. On that I wrote my playfully last week and work in progress I'm done in this just trying to evolve I'll bet you maybe I'll get into the studio with the studio with it a couple other songs, but wherever this is just so different approach to it, no singing, just the slow grumbly tubes, disdain of a couple of p nineties.
homer lives. Monkey
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Transcript generated on 2020-11-24.