The guy. All right? Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the FUCK Nics, what the fuck's terms, what the gets how's it going art mare- and this is my podcast w T have welcome to it today- is Thursday appeared. Downloading and listening on the day. It comes out. Today's, New year's eve. Tomorrow Friday, the beginning of a new year, it doesn't Do you like. It usually does. Does it yeah. I don't know you and I spent fuel earth. Today, little time yesterday, trying to figure out. you know what to say.

Do I have a list deserve a top ten. Twenty twenty is area. A cow. Down of- bullshit. This fact that bad this or that? that's trending, now what are my thoughts on what by likes and dislikes twenty twenty What do we do with it? I think for a lot of us there's no reason to, necessarily get involved with the pop culture? rationalization or distraction nor relief attempts at Context, realising this last year on, your team level on Iraq, should be level on a pie. culture level at all. Is there really? I mean a lot of it helped us get by, but of seems like a boy.

like a smear like a haze. I'm exhausted frosted from twenty twenty, I mean I've never felt like. I feel now for a lot of different reasons, and I assume many of us have had probably the first year of our life, A body in brain and it is exhausted from distributing cortisol I'm worn out on a fibroid level. from four years of the pig king. CHAOS master They came along with that, I'm exam. I stayed. from almost a year of. covered in belligerent here spots ability on behalf of so many people childishness exhausted by the fact that now after four years and then a plague how exactly who my fellow Americans are

and what many of them are made of. I'm exhausted, because I know who I am more clearly now because of grief, covert isolation, Trump panic wild fires. It's been a while. top year, man I mean I know tangibly what happened to me: I know that I had to put two cats down. This year I know. that someone, I loved alive. basically died in my house. I mean, I know those things happened. I know the Play came. I know how was handled from it. top down

from my neighbour down from across three down I know all of us have had a difficult time. I want to feel optimistic. I want to feel hopeful. I wanted I take this opportunity, like we do every year to lie to ourselves there's! No one's gonna be a good one. I don't know about you, but you know it, I'm hoping for some fuckin relief? Just a little relief would be good, rate sure we got a little relief in early November but I mean tangible walk outside look around kind of relief. That's me help for new year.

I'm sorry, you ve gone through what you're going through in what you went through this year. I am my empathy can we reach so much, but I do get a sense of some people have much worse time than me, a lot of people still having a bad time, grateful that I have some things in place that enable me not to lose my mind or wallow in sadness that could have proven chronic Disastrous we for my friends, If, over the audience ungrateful the people who reached, out to me during this last year, so this before I don't know, I guess I'll say it again. I have You like to be grateful for any a lot to be said about it. Unlike anybody else, a lot to be afraid of, and we move forward. I want you to have a better new year. I'd love

but if you had a happy one, but I don't know what you're hoping for. but I'm hoping for relief, just a little bit of relief would be so welcome, Just a little bit: ok, ok, ok, it's gonna, be ok! That's my for this new year for some relief It's gonna be ok. Now great. not even necessarily better. I just want some relief, want things to be okay and I go because to be able to see past right now again, a little bit with a little bit of excitement, hope. Tat an old man. That's a stretch

things have been laid bare, but my hope for us all. So if you can find some gratitude, find it can find some. beta frame the last year pot. The Tivoli. Maybe because of but you now know about yourself about your family, the connections he made. The lovely you found how you took care of people? Are you took of yourself how people took care of you? You can find it could be grateful for that for what overly for us all a little relief and maybe just occasionally the ability to go like tomorrow's gonna be ok, tomorrow's going be good? I can't wait. till tomorrow, so today on the show David, writs. I talked to David writs. Now David writs is one US prolific biographers of music industry stars he's the guy here. biographies on Marvin Gaye Jimmy scattering the Frank when he's co written a ghost written biography,

for dozens, more re Charles, be king at a James, JANET Jackson, Buddy guy I done Rickles. He I wrote the autobiography of Atlantic Records producer, Jerry Wax or which is how I got hooked up with him. I played Wechsler in the movie. Respect is also written. His own interesting, autobiography called the God Groove Booze journey to faith This is not your average jewish guy story. just down in Libya and in resting guy who's, been through some interesting things and he's meadow out of amazing people and he's gone through a journey of his own. and I thought I would talk to him Since you are a winner of podcast, you ve, probably heard of audible. Obviously we ve had audible as a sponsor for more than ten years but here something might not know you can now find and follow w e f on audible, along with hundreds of thousands of other pod guests all the audible, app and all free, no membership, no credit card needed for over two,

Only five years audible has been the leading provider of audio books in all kinds of spoken, word, entertainment and a gas or a big part of what people listening to for information, inspiration and entertain. Now can find them all in one place, so get are you t F, along with other popular shows, by searching for the show in the audible app while you're their brows around? Maybe you'll find some new favorites go to audible, dot com, slash pods or text pods that's p, o d s to five five hundred. You can download the audible app and follow us there that's audible, dot, com, swash, pods or text. Pods too, five hundred five hundred. So Talking to David Routes is a bit of a musical history. Any definite has some, through our experience into some of the great artists of our times. Confined links to all of his work at rates

our eye: TC rights, dotcom writs! rights dot com This is me talking to David Writ, Nice to see you David, I you know, I know we talked wants a while back and you help me out a bit with that Jerry Waxwork, your friend. How did that go by the way? a third of men, to call you and ask you and I didn't ever, did you enjoy the process you I did. You know and are you having read your book about? Jerry was very helpful and then talking you a bit about a return a bit about Wechsler was helpful in and I think the director was very happy with my performance, but I think that ultimately, the other works where you describe your in here in the book it euro. with them and also in Europe. The God. Groove was probably a deeper: do

then the one you're gonna see in the movie where Because it is in his movie, it's her exactly. You can't go that deep in oh, I mean you don't have time and he is incredibly complicated and You know you you're incredibly complicated. I gotta be honest with you and I had this book of yours sitting around for a long time, and I you know- and I know you ve written books about you- know a lot of different people right by just the other day. You MIKE why I've I've, I've, I talked to him. I dont. I really reading books and people of written before I talked to them because it makes me led to much so the That being said, I read most of it oh I don't. I did not read the end, so wording that you're gonna have to where you have to get to that. Naturally, but the God groove your book, a blues journey to faith is a great book. It's a ball z book and I don't say this about much, but I think a lot of it has to do with the things have in common

I found you not just a jewish sharing, not Is the narcissistic father thing not just the black hole? sure black music thing. But maybe that's where there's a lot of things tat. We have covered. but dad but, like I said, I don't know how it ends. I assume that you have Jesus in your heart now. I think it was that where we were going well, you know I am definitely I definitely be leaving Jesus and that's interesting because at the other think we come, and I do mean we haven't come in that particular word g, this, but I think right both commanded, the twelve steps. That's how I got into Christianity through the twelve steps and end. The irony is that is that, when I earth twenty into one of three different. Was there against that I've been in for the last thirty years. If he had told me, you had a be leaving Jesus. I would again be away so part of the genius of

program to me, is to re language Christianity to take to the christian part out of it right idiots. It's it's! It's structural Christianity without Jesus, exactly the right! I get it it's it's. The deeds without the dude yeah deeds to me are the due to a mean. In other words, the deeds are the dude in that for I don't care within Baker, anything I I think our job as we communicate with other people is to be sensitive to their cultural. His three with certain words, so I won't you certain words certain people, because I know it was kind of trigger them there for its only out of the ego that I have to tell you, you have to use the word. Jesus you don't have to use any word I mean I've to to. Me. It's about

the brotherhood in their sister head of the twelfth have programme, is all about further. allowing ace ear it too Wash over us to hear from each other and to hear was as a result of embracing the Spirit What you go on in call that spirit how you while I'd morality or theology you adapt. I don't care where I am I I am not at all even jellicoe and I dont like proselytizing because I believe that platform ties and comes out of Vigo. You ve got to use my lying. I get so yeah yeah you're, saying that what you gotta get him to his God consciousness and either you're going to tap in or you're, not or or or don't even call it got consciousness if by word God is abhorrent to you. If the Spirit moves you whatever highbrow here again, but it wouldn't sure thing to me is that you,

now your body jewish is, you can be, I greatly and I mean It seems to me that you you were, but where were you born? I was born in New York. and live there until I was about five and moved to New York, New Jersey and live there twice that twelve and then we went to trust him. South Carolina for a year and then I went to taxes were meant to going and it my old man was travelling on are travelling Sazen by they come from likely Your pay, your grandparents were the emigrants, yeah yeah Easter, european, the traditional, what part you ever track. It know you never do You are aware there not from from that be. beyond behind the paler parliament generally, I know the territory but but I've I've never done and in a way way I mean I don't care

air in a certain way, because that kind of new them very very well and they were not articular. in English and I I don't I mean what they Well, they say well, my my the old man's parents spoke? It was very broken English, with a heavy yet this accident, but their first language was yiddish. and ere. You speak English. No, I don't My only know what the usual words are in that, did you? Parents did your father? Yes, he and he was good at it and he was proud of it and and- and I enjoyed hearing him speak it but again never bought, The two I'm learning in it now

even occur to me, so your memories of New York, as as when you were very young or very it seems very clear, very clear because they had to do was jazz. I mean, in other words my first passion as a child, because my old, my old man, love jazz, my first passion ass, a child jazz and- and I was born in nineteen forty three. So I still got to hear the Titans unity, they Parker in early holiday and so and so forth, and that's what really kind of marked by early. and by the way, going back. Just should Christianity without trying to cure here. Is that the two things Then I will ever have talked about it. A captain is interviews and are trying to push it, but the tooth that led me to Christianity were both the twelfth day programme, an african American.

Music, because I made that clear. You no eight in its like a bite when you were a kid you're New York, until you five and then you're Newark New Jersey, from seven to eleven yet, but on your face Are you? Are you it? Wasn't you weren't a religious family? Were you know he was He was one of the reasons I gotta wanta well with Jerry Wechsler, said Jerry was my my aunt Izzie Father right, he was I'm rich, my old man was not here, he produced Rachel Carson Risa frankly, with my old man didn't hatchet? Do he hung out with Wilson ticket which my own Jew But he talk like my old man, I mean my old man at a jury was intellectual. He was a litter the intellect and your father was too yeah yeah yeah. You know they read

I powered books. They knew Einstein and fry well, yeah right, they knew were they read. You know, saw below and for browsing Bernard Mohammed S, interesting that that generation right of Jews that you your father was a traveling salesman, but the but the prince, and put on education, by second, your first generation second generation Jews two to sort of like dignity. define us as a culture that you know you you better knowledge is power. Education is how you get ahead, because I cannot let you do a lot of things You better be smart right at all oh, they were killers, I mean they were intellectual killers, in other words, how why is the jury as well as I did is because he was like my father in if you got into an argument with him a bow, Oh, whether sunny Rawlins was a better tentacular. Then it's funny state

or whether T bone Walker was a better guitars in other guy, is argumentation style was to sort of destroy you. If he could. My most important subjects exactly ass. He had too, and so there was a passion it pack as a conversation was now, it doesn't mean. Underneath there wasn't love and affection. in their positively worth, but he beat you down. Is that what you're saying a just be happy? This should at EU there and men, and that's one of the reasons why could tiptoe through his tulips and become his gun? writer who ve everybody about your father. What about your father? Did he ain't? We would know we had a falling out pretty early on because I understood he was he was an intellectual abode

as was a jerry, and so I had to take em on either have to take them on board my personality or you have always, as when you son of a narcissistic father at some point, you can have to push him over the edge you gotta kill em off at a certain point- and I know that sounds like kindness straight ahead: ADA pull shit, but in my case. It was true because, because they will eat you up where they deny you a sense of self exactly because because they only me, idea only saw me as an example exactly that's exactly something we share and that's deep shit and realizing that is it It's weird in deep thing that you know that you're you're, just seen as an appendage, and when the of its hard to see you as an appendage one the year it starts hitting you exactly and even in my own Kerr Rear one.

They got all off and I was doing ok and I was rings looks he was never happy that I was a Goethe. Writer because he wanted me to be you know so broad this all bell, or one of these guys, are being undermined. You no matter what you did probably so I think so. I think that probably too he was proud, but he could never tell me that and also he could never stop criticising my work as being superficial, as opposed to doing the poets. Surprise, a variety of all of you either way it sends us out into the world sorted like you know. Having me input they the Implant self consciousness in a self loathing in us cause. Own judgement of ourselves and then you kind of wandering around emotionally and tethered looking for guidance,

from a very early age, because Your ear Europe apparent are incapable of what would your mother did? she was strong? She was a seem strange she so, ultimately he became one of the people she worked for on fears urge eighty pennies one of the chair. She would get in the truck and come to your have instead of measure your windows for the drapes and she felt right and you the great salesperson and totally on intellectually, but on intellectual, but there three very intelligent and very kind of practical and doubter and cold. My dad was very emotional and warm and hug ie and my mother was rather kind of distant and end, but one of these idiots To believe that we get the pair, Instead, we should get or ill least in my case, I got exactly the parents

I need you gave it. I mean like look. I understand you. I do that too, because your honestly, that idea of young nothing happens in God's world that isn't whatever. But the truth is that You gain nothing from not seeing it that way that exactly a day. You know without it being. You know more of regret, you you you have to frame it like that way at some point, or else you just gonna. You know you you're going to have a regret, won't, but it's helpful to frame it. That way, in that my my goal, oh, is to live in gratitude, because I think I get it. I got you know. No, I know anyway, we don't go crazy. doesn't mean they weren't shitty added and in a very important ways, worst shitty, and I can look at that and in other ways they were great, but in any event, because I'm

happy with who I am now, I should have needed them to go through whatever I went on. I appreciate your at an end, and so, if you can get it, gratitude. However, the hell you get to gratitude, whether it is sort of a pool like you suggest that I need to frame it that way, which I don't agree with. In the end. As I said you're talking to you now. I am grateful to my mom. I am grateful May I add for being too they are actual highway, so your connection with with jazz anger african american music, black music. at the time. You know something that you know I identify with as well, and this was something that, her father loved and it was the jazz age and you were did you get to see a lot of life stuff. When you were very young yeah. I did. I thought I saw the tightened

or to me the tight and you haven't. We, like your father, took you what how do you do that he took me each operator, clarity hall. He took me to Jeff Cloud Newark. I saw a little what Jimmy Scarecrow later. And became a guy who's, your fee, I wrote. I saw a bird and Billie Holiday and Macrobian Clifford Brown in and also set of getting back to the religious part of it. As I look back, these were religious epiphanes at the time I didn't. I can call it that, but I so a moved and so oh amazed and so shook, and so try his early music by early music, it mainly fucking crazy. I know that you framed this as your journey towards Oh God, head but you know, but when you were a kid you just excited right, yeah, but you're, trends for

In other words, you are ecstatic. I guess that's what I was an alcoholic, ecstasy the authority is kind of like going. I remember, I got a scene in the book where I got on african american church, and looks great in their view, continue bacon. In writing. You know, and I can't go in the church because I'm doing Jesus, it's kind of creepy and I've been told, is created everything in my country's held me? That's not me, and yet everything its drawing me into their church, the people, happy the music jamming and what its taken me for ever understand is when I went to hear Charlie Parker Ad bird lander count base. You ever was it was entering into a church, and I was in experience in ecstasy that mercury, informative. Can, that was, wasting my hard and exciting me and taking me beyond what is the norm.

Human condition, and I didn't know what to call that except I had to go out and I had a by air. Rebuilding howdy, I've album and every year, three young and then, when I moved to I'm taxes, the big deal that happened to me was moving to taxes I was twelve and a half because new Europe was Algiers in Texas, was the blues and I'll have to think about the blues so you want to that. You went to the source exactly, and so, when I heard avi bland be king and of Lightning Hopkins, I others good. It all comes out of the blues and it's a blue. experience and again it's a transformative experience in the cliche if you play the blues to lose the blues, but you also listen the Blue, to lose the blues. And then even thought of deeper than all that we

or in the human condition. At least for me, is the blues condition we are born to die, for whom we ve all got the blue view known what what was it that baby king told you about This conception of Jesus he didn't say that much is no. He wasn't there. Wasn't he the one who told you that God had the blues? Yes, yeah, yeah yeah! I know he did. Have we tell me, God had the blue sent his son? Is human sundown no end and that that in some ways Jesus was a personification of one blues. Yet man and then I guess you asked you, when Jesus was was resurrected. where the boys gone and baby said. No of course not the boys don't go away. Just communicated differently right, yeah yeah, and I'd be leave. That is true that I think once we embrace the blue

sensibility of life. I think we are our sea region, That's also a great boy, another point: the book with a Jimmy Red story, which I mean I would encourage Anybody'D it to read these books for these gummy. You d, like Zella, you just what it locked into these fuckin moments, because your passion for something yet, but I don't think it was locked. Lots of your people tell me that My feeling about it I chased after Gemini arrived after Marvin Gaye Emory Ban returns Ryan. I was rejected a lot by people who didn't looking out. I mean I just made it a point I came in. I want to know who you are. You know why? I guess luck is not the right. I mean I think what was lucky is. Is

that you got in that car would Jimmy read, but that you know he happened to pull out a razor and either and cut his girlfriend, and you guys end up with a fuckin emergency. Romany tells you that, in order to understand the blues, you gotta live of those driving. That was a gift dude. I mean why Agri no amount The persistence was going to deliver that to you. No, no, no! No! No! No! I agree and and and that's always been it's like chain. After Marvin Gaye the way a chase after him and getting together with him, but what's up about that for a minute. Let's talk about the arc of it. Ok, yeah. You know that you'll do this music gets you going like. You know that you love this music. You love all of you of the entire spectrum. I get the blues in the gospel, we are what sort of come together to make the rb and make the jazz and the jazz comes full circle and supposed to Jesus all the way out of it and creates a new spirituality. I get all that now couple of questions I have before I go into the arc of your careers.

shot if you put into. I was just talking to my producer about this before we start talking that there is a type of issue that is completely compelled and immersed in black culture. I dont know If it goes both ways, I don't feel like it dies, but there are certainly jewish booze players and then also jewish boozing, jewish music intellectuals, and you are civil rights proponents. The Jews have been. You know, matched with the black experience for a long time in America, Where do you think that comes from? If you put a serious partner that no and the reason I have there is no obviously am I wrong. No, you can make a great argument and you can show historical evidence for it, and I mean no, it is a highly intelligent art I have never put myself I mean there are other jewish people. I know a happy begin. Others Peter were right

only likings Yazoo issue for great scholar in a great writer of armies, I can name alone over the jewish people MIKE Warfield right I mean Peter Green and Paul, Schaefer there, whose whose Look, I rode in whose, but the great great new vision and a scholar of r and d in Blue and then you get the great the great exploiters of the black people in the jewish religion, right, the chests and and and didn't you know, so it goes on and on and so yes, there are. Bob said have been. I think one book was called rhythm the Jews, I mean that it has been a whole. This there's gotta be a hundred Phd conscious, music, its politics as well as politics, antisocial, that's the kind of I guess it comes from social activism and from the initial kind of like a marxist sort of social activists and an athlete right again. The reason

and I have not. That is of not kind of primary interest to me because I experience with. It rests in mystery, I don't know why. When I heard Lily round front for the first time when my father took and two Carnegie Hall or when I heard Shirley Parker recalled train or whoever it is. I dont know why my heart, beating I untruth I felt this connection. It didn't have to do with power. You didn't have to do with. It was a this row, emotional experience, When we moved the Charleston I was twelve anything or about eleven have, and I didn t my parents really didn't. Prepare me for the segregation This is a bad one. Forty three into of nineteen fifty five, so I got on the bus, and I said

Naturally, went to the back of the bus to sit with the african american people could say I was more comfortable, You're right, I don't have any attitude I was just there were more comfortable, they annual the bus driver. You asked me: what are you doing? I didn't understand. I bet and understand and more or their politics, it wasn't just music it with sports, because I was an incredibly passionate broken. Dodger, then when I was a kid and that was the dodgers of raw, I can't the and Jackie Robin and so in my mind, african of merit Kids were a superior raised because the tooth If I was interested in which was the top there is in jail s. They were they excelled at all. All my heroes were black so and also your view brought up in a house where your father was you know incredibly embracing. There was not join there is not separation due respect.

And appreciation yeah an offer. I am not particularly pull political folk, so I mean you know, I'm a liberal worm dammit. Rapid, I'm not It was never an activist. I've been oh writing, forever, and and and so anyway, what does you set out to do, though? I mean the writing seemed a kind of overtake you well begin a you know. I've got kind of weird history. In the beginning I went to graduate school had just taken New York at Buffalo with his guy Leslie Hitler whose the kind of a well known critic and a US Our aim is guy and in the world, the union, criticism, an of war You become here so I got in here may and I was repeatedly programme and I pass my page.

you are, but I never wrote vegetation. I got tired of academics, I didn't feel like. I withdrew academic and I move two thousand and I began an agency because I wanted make a lot of threat. And do you mind, moved a Dallas what your family and you grew up there and that's when like art it right- and I think it is an agency that seconds ok, I'm gonna make a lot of money. right and I had work my way through college writing as and I was good it writing commercials and shit an idea that an end some power of mine. I begin an agency and we did that for about five years and I got soda bored. I didn't care about them, Yet I would ram. I was selling So that's when I began to think about chasing after the trials. I went to the library thought. No, there was no biography, only valuable that what was that moment, though I mean it's like you, yeah was there that you decided. I made some point you

tired, you're bored with your life is in advertising Asian, then added nowhere. You like a great Charles's, might take it here's. Why? Because an and therefore again, I'm kind of grateful for everything, I'm a good salesman. And I can hustle and advertising showed me that I could hustle. So I just look get him as a potential ply, but you look back, but you loved him. I loved him. I loved him and I didn't love the products. I was advertising but right, but you decided you wanted to write about What would you want to be his friend? Did you want to meet him? You decide said you wanted to write his biography and when the Pulitzer Prize, but then I at an agent who told me his biography is needed is not as commercial autobiography, and I told him I don't care I've got to win the Pulitzer Prize and the eight biographer. If I didn't know what the fuck does have one unjust dad to be proud, you exactly and then the agent asked me a question, a question that

my wife and the question was what book would you rather read a book about his life writ by an eight year like you or a book in his own voice, his life and his oh. I would much rather read the book so my zone. So then the agency to me right the book you want to read not the book that you believe you should write and that changed we and even to day I continued write the books. I want to read write. Some but did but this whole compulsive kind of process. chasing downright Charles, very compulsive yet, but it was like it you know. Is it became your ear, get that the main object of your life and high on pot and- and I'm not. I mean I checked into them. But she's motel on watching boulevard process. We from its off this. And stocking him aunt stocking

No doubt the office in theirs is tough. Guy John Adams managers stones. You can have anything do assumes, and then I call western union I say: can you were sent out the Braille and they said yes, then I start said, in telegrams in Braille every day about how I was crazy about him and I loved him- and I knew anything about him and I wanted to work ultimately, he calls me up any in the users. Who are you I'm a guy across the street in the motto and humbly enjoying Jus that give coming around. I often just over, and I knew once I got in a room with him. He would feel me and did he could really fun hard he could feel my spirit and I did love him. I mean I mean he was the artist he the earliest artist who had them.

Had they can impact on the early Rachel. Charles fuck me up as much as any arts, and so it did it just happened end, and I could talk to him I was in into I mean I was intimidated, but I can hang in there. I mean I can ask them of questions. When you lose you I mean I I discovered I was good at it and what, I knew that it was his book in that my own book everything change, because I gave him the power and once you give a way power in a crime it of collaboration? U turn out to have more power because powers off the table and people are more willing to give and take and be free in the discussion I get up and, like you know, in that moment you know where you finally sit down with Ray Charlie. You sit down your ass.

Yeah. You got the hang of it here. You know you you, you smoky Robinson, be king added James, a wreath of all these people all the way You know you buddy guy. You wrote that everybody, but But I have to assume that moment a guy like you, who's got. You know the boundaries probably warrant great, your sense of self, not great, you know, so your ability to kind of in a innately, symbiotic and codependent way to lie. I can do somebody who is A self centered but amazingly giving artists. probably almost innate liking, for I became an appendage fairly quickly. Now, yes, and also helped again, bye, bye, bye advertising, because in advertising, where I did them well, you have a client and the clock instinct charge any learn the guys, the client for outcomes, out of advertising.

now. The academic part was helpful. In that I knew literature to an extent I mean right. You know I knew what you wanted to be close to re Charles. I want to be close to him and I also wanted him to know. He didn't have to be scared of me, because these people have been interviewed a zillion nine. I hereby journalists who twitter words in their angry at the press, and I kept, I told a man. This is your book and and the truth is we translated into pray, oh- and he put it, you know, hands over the brave only may change it and he was a great editor, but he was a brilliant guy. He was a brilliant, brilliant but he was like one that he was willing. Not, unlike I mean, here's the different degrees of k, genius on behalf of people, public people right it sounds like ray. You know was willing, engage you and trust you.

and when you did, you know, presented with a book that was written in his voice by him with you. You know he was okay with it, even with the darker elements exact, because he can give a shit, in other words a guy who was so confident about who he was right and arrogant. I mean, we can try agree. I knew it was great: and he was the most competent I've ever met has supposed to you. Marvin Gaye, with the opposite, was completely in secure practice brother re. That was a big book right. You know it did well. Did they based the moving on a year they did, but but It's it's a whole long story, it's a diminished Virginia that's just along that doesn't have a happy that were particularly not Typically interesting Hollywood store that you ve, heard zillion, oven, but, but I tell you, but you do ray and then, if you think you're gonna start just here, you're going to be the guy exactly that

as the bite, the helps these guys go straight. Their stories. Nothing happened, exactly yeah, and that's where the hustle have to kick in because They very at a certain point than your exactly right. I thought everyone was gonna call me. I had done Rachel's autobiography and noble These calls me and that's when I understand that I am in the advertising business again. I have to chase if reply. I have to get some work where I got a chase after Marvin Gaye I gotta chasing after the never brothers it gotta chasing after this one, and that when an eye at a certain point mark. I also realized diet. The chief, I mean you or the Terrible in that you don't like to be rejected, but I can take it. Jackson Euro, I mean it, it it ain't, gonna kill me and also I knew

It gave me a lot of confidence. Cookies are tough. You know he was a tough cookie. I mean really tough. Guy you're end, not particularly cordial, and so you know when I finally got Marvin Gaye, who have been asked, Read it with the opposite, like rain? It was of the tough uncle who was very certain demanding- and you have been your tough Marvin was your relaxed, older brother, but it was weird, though you know the way you can kind of characterize. What you're saying to me now, but it seems to me that out of the fifty books you wrote However many it is about all these different artis there. You know you need you spend some time the book talk about body guy. You know you talk about baby. You talk about the others. it story about. Lightning Hopkins in the song about the stuttering kid they helped you sort of frame your own stutter different right bright, but it It seems to me

that rate, Charles, the reasons you just said was impact full, but that your once you got into this skin and the law I've Marvin Gaye they your mind was fuck blown further for light and dark like you, you are in have to assume initially way over your head will not sure tell me what you mean by way over Why mean, like you know? You know who you are? You know you get it into who you are, but so, like all of a sudden you with your work, Marvin Gaye, who is like yours, is fundamentally insecurity, array knew who he was, and he I do we was, and you know in anything that comes from a lot of things you know get getting through life blind you know in and having you know, I mean implants you in yourself in a way that you, I can, however, have otherwise, but you're also being a great artist but Marvin being fundamentally shattered, insecure, a broken person you're with with deep you,

deep seated conflict around sexuality around his parents around his relationship with his with Jesus with his mother Mother Father. I mean I'm just saying that over your head in the sense of U S similar problems, but through Marvin, hit through Marvin's journey, which was ultimately tragic and horrible. You know you were able to come to grips with some of your own stuff. That was so hard won, but he usually must been terrifying. Terrified with Marvin, because he was such a gonna- do this right. Is it really kind of a precious thing but Marvin Gaye, was you know I just didn't I you know I just did a book with when cravat, whose enormously charming man and a very sweet, loving man and More was it was in that cattle, I mean it now again

He doesn't have nearly the turmoil and an end and that kind of Misha gases Marvin Gaye, but more than was you just want to be with him all the time because he was so cool. He was relaxed and now again you were high most of the time. Some moments doping snorting cocaine, so I mean that was part of it and and I also think I get sober to ninety ninety Marvin with killed them before so. Our whole experience together involved not just listening to music in talking about theology and literature, but it also involve being high and- and let me get mean, but this guy was, like you know, going down hard man well when I, when I met him. He was not going down hard when I met him. He had just done here my gear, which is a great sort of master work,

and I was thrilled with it out- this- is the outcome of that is divorced from Anna Gordon Gay, and I was it there have been other women. I wrote a letter, the allied timed. Comparing It's Charlie, missing Ellington is even wonder so I mean this. Album was and again I I adored his music, I adore is music and then I adore it. So it was not and and and the other thing about Marvin, which was interesting. Even when I went to Europe and we had our last meeting when we rode actual I'm here together, more it was always able to day o heat me, oh Way from him when he was really in the kind of darkest periods of his life, for example, he told me, don't touch the pipe. You know when he began. Fooling was deprived people

don't touch it, and then he would never tell me anything any other. I mean that wasn't typical of him, so he, very protective of me- and when he did have these extremely dark period. He kept me away from him because I think he saw me as someone with the shops to write his story. And also may be vulnerable to not be able to handle the pipe positively and an chances are if he had offered to me. I probably I put you know because You know now recently I've done books with willing Nelson and I'm doing a book with look doc and aim a recovering marijuana timing. Marijuana to me, with my name, dropped, and I had a good may. I leave no. There wasn't me

marijuana and none of us to get straight, but I can be, was William Snoop and not worry about getting high or a you know, but back nineteen. Eighty, two being with Marvin Gaye in the idea of turning down. joint for him. Was it even rim? most would be possible wasn't even remotely Papa. You didn't even get involved, smokin coke, did at once so right. I did it one time and, and it was so good and so every green light went on in my brain. I wanted to get on the roof and tell the neighbours the Good NEWS and it turned out that the person who got me the stuff was killed after he left my house in some drug

and that got me so scared that I never kind of touch it again, but that didn't, keep me from Milton part I mean that happen in eighty five. Eighty six. I continue to get high for another four years. Until I get over, Tina. Ninety, but I think But what you really characterizing the book for me, you know and in that we're not leaning too much in this conversation is that you know the through line of the God grouping of your book and in in talking about working with these. These artists was sort like you know, seeing your path, two spirituality unbelief and it seemed to me that Marvin Gaye, you know, and his struggle with himself would drugs. And yet I'm is a guy that you know lost his fuckin mind from cocaine. psychosis and push his father to shoot him.

And you know in- and you know you talk about the aftermath of that and about his father kind of like not real, forcefully ya, intentionally, not remembering killing his own son, but my eye, my question, is it seemed that the reason I said over your head was at its seem night, the way that Marvin framed his relationship with Jesus in the midst of em We think that he was going through in the midst of what you know. What was seemingly someone surrendering to the devil? You know what inspirational to your or some sort of cautionary tale or somehow strengthened, retroactively, your your idea of what belief was told really agree, because when you are with him, when I was with him, I could see the Jesus in him. I could see the end. When I listen to his music, particularly what's going on- is a christian album so that here He is worth a gospel artists to me add!

and, as you know, there is theirs. The eight show Laura, the thing that he said, trust the story, don't trust the story. Teller, and Marvin story, as its expressed in his music is filled with. Hope in light and love I would also filled with turmoil because she's a blues, artists and blues artists have to work their way through the blues, but because he was gospel artist. I am inspired by Mark continued, the eye problem. isn't Marvin more than any artist, and I music all day long, which you haven't. You go back to work. Are you I love? What's going on? I love I. I love I love him all I mean I liked the concept out much more than the single, though I do love her through the greater but you know, I love I trouble man, I love

What's going on. I love, though, let's get in on above. I want you and interpret chief truly love here, my dear date, because it spoke to me so powerfully that I had to meet him and my hustle Marvin story- I don't know if I put it in the book or not, is that when it was a tough because the album with attack when it came out is being kind of personal and hook here is about his give wars and rising Marvin talking about when we talk about. Let's go He was attacked by guy in the early times and I thought to myself is If I as the attack, an I write, a letter Here too, the editor dear for ending the album. Marvin will read the letter, get in touch with me and I'll. Get me that's exactly what happened. call me up anyone who are you- and I were this guy I've written a book and rape and usable come on over man. This talk, I really

She, your understanding, this album so now again. I was completely genuine, I mean, and but but but but but I was also why, to meet here, but but I may seem like threw him you're able to sort of, like you know, find like he became the barometer of your ability to accept your son, because of your own sexual identity. You, you know I issues or discomfort threw him you know and his proclivities around, cross dressing and his father, the preachers cry, stressing which you know which the omens ultimately damaged Marv a bit in and in here is just seem that he not unlike Jesus, what as the guy that you know you work too and said what this guy can rise above this in an end, I have got in his wife that there's some

pathway from me yeah. Maybe I don't leave that's true and was also true. Is that we'll just sexual I'm hearing, which is an interesting of metaphor for through the whole thing. We're together an oath skin in April of nineteen. Eighty two, the, but this is him he ran away because he was so fucked up right. Yet the Irish after Romeo's is why Our Moliere he's depressed. He was in England he within a why he hasn't had a hit got to give it up. I mean he's at the lowest state of his life and he winds up into beautifully clean. Our enormous indulgent looking at the North sea. again me being the hustler chasing after him. We gotta do the book we got into the union at the book and I've got to young kids. I don't have any Brad I'm here I'm gonna go see. Fuckin.

Eight over dinner Mozart, which is what Marvin Western, you'd, do anything, you hang out here so I get there and on the coffee table. Is this and it s an M book of cartoons, which is very kind of you know kind of disturbing Annie asked for, and this music he's playing on them. The boom bar and he needs the story to go with. It and I'm not really thinking about the music track. I'm thinking about it, book and I say Marvin. This is some sick shit. What you need is sexual healing adhesives. What's that you know: you're gonna love a person for the four who they are and that involve pain in your here from all the complexities and you except lava black and he said, would you just write? Some poetry, How would that work is a poem, so I am glad that I write when blue teardrop through you and

take these words, and he puts him to the track which was written by his keyboard is the brown and the song is written. In my mind- and this is my son- listen to me and where I think you're gonna hit the nail on the head in my mind, of working as a ghost. In other words I am ghost writing for Marvin Gaye yeah he's script right, but it turns out to be my own script, where I need was sexual hearing and acceptance of the complex my own actuality, because one of my one of by primary addictions is actual, so it took me ever to a Stan, that's what I thought was a sound written for him, which was. Was also a song that became kind of

matter of my own and what is, the spiritual component of that that The resolution of May. sexual come pose. Seventy members, that's true. No roses happened at twelve step meetings that had to be brought into the church of the well steps that need it s. A ritual resolution, because I'd I'd try if you go to shrinks- and you know that as I did with as I did with cocaine and marijuana is well. I don't wanna go to pop like meetings. It had made a mistake that worried me, I'm alcoholic. I wanted to go as Upper Middle Class Jew. I want you to go to the privacy of the shrink, pay him a hundred and fifty dollars an hour and get cure They just didn't work. I just didn't work,

what followed by it in an ego that somehow Marvin was able to sort of balance in your message with something that you know. He believed that that in that that sex and and Jesus that there was not that did you talk talk about the book about a few of the artists who you are you there Initially there was something about gospel being sexually eyes by re. Charles Eddie was seen as the devil's music, and then there was an evolution where it wasn't the devil's music. You know all music. Is God music in that that Marvin Sportive exemplified this guy? Who was able to hold both of those worlds in each of his hands until he went out of his mind and decided that the devil was winning. So what Baghdad have on you, do wage wait when he might believe it. I mean in others, in other words that, where the Jew in me with great, because

because I had it at least but I call that, as I don't mean that could have happened if you were a Hindu but I had the critical acumen to argue. with him, a goal that is crazy. You know that that that charter, Parker or maximum oh sure or in a common, is just as much a thief a instrument, as God s as your or Lightning Hopkins, Charlie Patent or whoever and this kind of this kind of I thing is crazy. It it is it's in all superstition. I understand word coming from, but I. Rejected and by the way, intellectually Marvin rejected it but from an emotional point of view, given his upbringing in his debts church, he could.

Which is. Why was kept convoluted because of child abuse? yeah, but I mean we argued about that and I remember one of the last night we were together in Belgium there It was a documentary on coal train and we were watching Coltrane, and this was called trains kind of a ritual period. After a love, Supreme yeah he's really preach in an Marvin's going wisest, eddies really out their debate, and an israeli after and Marvin got it. I mean he categorically understood that we were in the church of John culturing, and so even say this is you. Of the devil's music and end, but but his child good conditioning and his kind of drum he was Raw materials is child, so was o risa and so with rage, and when you have childhood trauma and you,

I have the means to you: just need help. You know what a media, but also I got in that community. That's not suddenly that happens. A lot dude yeah yeah You know you and give you keep it a yell at home, you well in the case of re he was so wrong. The mining, but you know using your brother now losing your eyesight him. He knows you're fact, but that's not the same as like a Pentecostal Minister, Father fucking, your brain up now but it's where I don't know how you compare tromp, I mean that it held the trauma to go into hell, they're trying to manufacture buddy, You know it's it's it's not an it's, not abuse its, not gas providing its. I bet it important distinction. I agree with you, it is it is. It is not abuse at the hands of a parent, and am I right

and I think it's important distinction and that may be why. Ray was able to live a relatively long life, but did thoughtful important remember about Ray, and this is a story that, with not told in the movie, but only its important story- that right it died of alcoholic, liver disease, you're right, the debt yeah, gay or yellow junkies, it's hard to think. If they don't they, allowed him to switch to the the weird booze exactly he gave up heroin and that's the triumphant thing in the movie body. every day he made the gin and coffee and five tablespoons sugar and drank earlier from Financial, now you and now again he was operative so he would argue with you when you return lose out all right, but they had its funding that they can you get hurt. Get that monkey off your back, like Keith Richards, William Boroughs. They did that thing with the young. After whatever they figure out how to keep tamping it down.

An eye by the way sure, I'm not in that category I mean again, I don't drink or drug or idea. You know about you, but I'm extremely compulsive person in in My work on compulsive about clothes- I like em, look all right, so we are even if it's not making your life unmanageable David right here, I just don't you want to get the idea that I'm cured, I mean I am pretty Europe. The other thing I want to know we're on our way. We just put it that you're still fucked up brain and also I accept the fact that on a mess and one things I like about jazz, then dump fund, particularly- and I love fund unilaterally. Ohio players and I just talked and boots oh yeah, but a genius to you

one of the reasons I was sunk and it is because it's a mess and and its up its its raw it's wrong in some Asian. What I'm saying and I values Doesn't it be that way too? I die. I think I am a mess. I think you mean condition. Is the method. I think that's why we relate so much to the blue, because the blues is a kind of messy music by taboos that the magic of it also like you know the magic of comedy comedy you're having. You know you ve done a couple bucks we're done, Rickles as well. Here is They are able to there's a cathedral she's in the simplicity of the blues- have a good joke. and that you know, if you can take the pain and the chaos of what it is to exist in the human world and kind

render it down to a phrase or one four: five or Europe you're good rinds. Ever yet, of time. Jokes, you have. The relief afforded the heart by those things is maggot agree with you more energy you know, I am so glad that you mention there because you want of my because every day I write thousand words I you know, I read while in every day I write every single day. I don't take off times because I'm juggling for books at once this, my computer. Of nature. In my love of my work and I like to see it- and I like the type but one of the things that key going is going on Youtube and listen to call train I'm in the grey or who is the also comics, I'll go and watch George Carlin thing for half an hour and it's like Charlie Parker, I mean parliament is just a crazy Yes, it's fine! I never it's like. I don't gotTa Carlin like so much I. If I'm going down the rabbit hall like out,

like lately. I've been doing some Rodney and I feel that way about him. I've, I've, I've actually kind of rediscovered. in the last four or five King pain, do that guy earlier I underestimated him when he first came out everyone Jack, I'm going back I'm saying he's a blues artist man I mean how for sure Remsen, but but I'm also getting off on. They got all the old Johnny Carson stay out. I've been I've been watching com. our soon whisper, buddy, hag, short, buddies, great telling all time, jewish stories in cats kill stuff and and that's it a kind of blues genius and for sure you know, and then a prior of course without saying an end for comedy to me I'll be with you com in ITALY. These a sort of a sort of nutrients. You know we live in its is toxic world that we win

and we always hard crushing in toxics. You know her run watching You ve in this guy is toxic, any poison, our culture that we need sort of nutrients to be healthy and not go crazy. Who to me the nutrients or no, See Wilson and Richard prior and buddy hacking and Roger. Ain't, your field and beyond what I didn't saying as you would use whatever means your disposed of, maintaining your sanity without hurting yourself or others were in. And also I put it to you know, I think we can achieve ethically the I put it a tiny bit differ which is my job, I got two jobs. One is not to go crazy. And one is to make a living. because if I, if I go

crazy. I won't be able to make a living, but hey mega. Why that'll give wave of raising the right? What did you have to be crazy to make a living now? And I think it's a it's? It's it's a control, kind of craziness, sure a court Yeah after several white right you once you get the hang out of how to work your own crazy fuck. Do it what what Did you take spending time with dawn Rickles? What was your Like added you assess his heart. Well, I could it was done after here what is a very with. Was I meet you great and, as you know, one of the key engine in in the Jackie letter looking for a decision. Honor. To do it it it origin or I have worked with three comics the hardest thing for me to do is to voice a comic, sure why

because, like you know, they ve got their lives, they ve got it like. I imagine it's a little easier, but not with the, Rita, but it's probably a little easier to chip away at a musician. By blowing of smoke up the rash you get an easier route to their heart may be whereas occur, make is pretty well guarded all the way down. Gordon and also what the comic and you know more about this, so I should be asking you. If I don't see, I don't know if that's true Let's have a mean streak I mean I can't think need is an important ingredient to time. Then I think- and I see that as a is anything wrong or sort of negative. I think the expression of anger is important for culture and and and that's. Why rod he's great rickles- is great birth rates. Are I'm not the other ones? You did who'd you don't irish, always the angriest, mall and gradual was was a cry

busy, Jean Pierre, you gotta layer that charm, on top of their rage, buddy so right, but on Sure, though, re series of a kind of a meeting is a sort of nastiness that difficult for me because under more gay or a razor? Even there is. A love so weakness in the kind of again a kind of a godliness childlike like great, but so in dance case he had you didn't have is fastball, which is very important in defining the dawn and compared to buy groggy is almost none of Don Rickles jokes were work break or written. He was. It was all driven by timing and and and beats and rage, but

You know like riding wrote, jokes, I mean you're gone, you know most of the things he says, don't make sense. No, no, no, not exactly it's all the vice but his rhythm media, alive of of this kind of perpetual saying and so that I didn't have that because he was older and not well way. I mean here it was a great experience here I was honoured to do it. I had a guy oh through four or five rafts. Until I got the voice right and it's like you were talking about their, there are joke. there's just this kind of risen, compulsive stream consciousness man on on paper. It Not as early as it is out loud yeah so, but you know, turned out was a hit book and made me either. I was happy with the whole thing we did. We actually we did to books and

and I would love to do more comic, who the other two anti display and sit there. Jesus, she's, a sweet guy right, and that was an easy book to delete it. He's like he knows how to talk about his heart. Andrew was tough guy. The staff- and there is a lot of heat between us and it was deaf but by the way if you watch that Bear tv show vinyl here and you, The Andrews part in here he's a heaven please I don't know. I've talked to you and I know of die, no dice you'd, I really really really talented, brilliant guy in a certain way, but the collaboration, it was not easy, but also like you know, you kind of you know you. If you're trick works, you know you get these people to kind of your present a well rounded portrait of themselves You know that they are but a lot of people don't have the equipment to get into their hearts or The courage to speak, open

about there bisexuality, like you do or you know or or yeah your struggle with spirituality and it as a Jew, YO kind of like landing on visas were or or sexual abuse or or sexual traumas child. So you know, there there just some people that you never going to get there, and I bet I thought that was sort of interesting about you again with a rather than you. this persistence and this not unlike originally with Ray that you know this was this was the God had for you was to talk to her and any talked everybody around her and everybody did newer about everything and they all told you she ain't gonna, give you anything and that's it dark tunnel dude and did you ever because I remember talking to you about respect, and you said, while look you know cause eight, the originally were involved and you're not involved than the estate is protective. I mean in wretch back. Do you know what was that experience for you? I mean you wrote a book with her and then you wrote a book about her.

Like you got to where you needed to be with. Well, you go back to me as a hustler, because hustle that book harder than a book here I chased after for eighteen nineteen twenty years while because again to me, was re, Marvin and refer the active. I just had to do it and ultimately, I caught up with her and when I caught up with her, it was one of the house. at moments of my proof, the actual life. When she told me yes, you can do that. I jumped out of my skin man, I was up for night. I was just getting and I remember the first time I went to her house. I went through the night before just make sure when I went there the next day I wouldn't get often lose my way, and then everybody tone we like Jerry and her brothers, They. Also me you're gonna get anywhere she's got to walk around her, but I was arrogant I was happy. I was arrogant because my arrogance allowed me

to do this autobiography button. My arrogance was, I'm gonna be so charming and so sweet. I'm going. To turn a melter near and I'm gonna get the intimacy could to me These books are all about intimacy. You no they're all dead in its at I did not make a dent in her armor I mean we had some good times in the kitchen eating food, didn't you, the wonderful coke and losing the gas will music and listening to Nancy. Was I mean it isn't that we have achieved China? How so you man right, but there was, I didn't, get to the heart, part of the story. I don't think so in either book. No, I think again, this is, Are you go talking, but I think respect is a good biography of her eyes. I think it represents. And because it isn't just my point of view with a lotta people for you, I think if you read respect you get a pretty and deep

standing of Eureka and proud of the book. Ok, what does your relationship with them production that I was in? I don't have anything to do with why, they option the option, my book and and and also Hollywood. Let me be fully candid, Hollywood is not particularly interesting to me big at anything. Turkey mean I'd love to. Watch movies and but as a participant, I don't have any control, I'm just a guy, a homo computer, I have no Jews I usually people if they option a book the option to book they go off and they make it and there's a director. do they know, it's called me to say, ask me anything though I knew I was grateful to him Are we making junior who, when the producers for having options book- and I know he had a high regard for the book and I hope the book was useful to the screen writers but I have had nothing to do with the screenplay and have had no input

I wish it well, I hope it's a great movie. I hope your braided Jennifer's great and I hope it helped her cheek and funny thing. I know I'm each if she is a crazy good, so I hope it perpetual. I hope it- the legacy of a wreath hope the tea I hope that the television movie honour races, great too, for I mean I ll draw great, but all I could control Well, I couldn't control the auto biography so the autobiography comes out. She takes over. she keeps me around, but she's really rewriting everything to Bulgaria and I'm not happy with it, because, I think is very superficial. Takes out the dark parts. Take out the door part really doesn't own up to her childhood traumas then, fifteen years go by and I just can't live with my self because I feel like I know the story,

I knew John Hammond Jerry, Wet Lorraine of her brothers and sisters. I did a million interviews and I can feel it. Die. Who else is gonna? EL the story with the enemy it now. What did I have an end again? There is anybody else and I know her yet I worked with her for two. Here, so I made up my mind, I'm going to go out of my comfort zone, I'm not gonna, be a ghost writer Adam. Going to write a biography here and and I knew it would make her unhappy and therefore took me four want to do it because I dont, like making people unhappy going back to my advertising. Client orientation keep the client, you know so so, but I just knew that had to tell her story. According to my understanding of the story and utilise all my, to let relationships with people who are close to us or consequently I am proud of the book-

an unhappy I wrote the book and that interest in doing a lot. Biography, I'm still Unum ghost. Writing is my main say, however much you like. But after that you can talk anymore, look, she was angry. And understandably right and they now so the other thing that seems in the book that you know Marvin Gaye cut you out of the loop on the royalties on sexual healing and that debt. That was friction, up until he died. What happened with that? Have that resolve itself I won the case because I had a tape of us writing. This your ipod, your misery when the case and have been a copy right. Oh owner of the sanctions, one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine or one thousand nine hundred and ninety and nn- That was an instance where Marvin was not well at the end of his life in turn out well,

and he was angry and you know there was litigation, but and watch or told you to do it. You were fine weather overhead so alive. I said I can sue. Marvin Gaye from year flow welcome back. You know. Obviously, if you ve got the hang of this and it's what you do, this ghostwriting thing in your sought out now by a lot of different types of people, It seems that there are people that you loved doing and did because of your own need to do them and then there's people that you do because you can I like you know you know that runs the Gamma Jerry Labour MIKE Store where you ve done it. You know I'd Natalie called Joe Perry, buddy guy My tab, Willie now seen you talked about, after the original one We were compelled to do like ray and smoking and b b in now,

Yes, my question and your kind of landing missing is- What what are you find in in creating a symbiotic intimate relationships with all these different types of artist, primarily music? What is it between them. I think we're two on within Europe, grew up in a household where you waited for pause in the conversation, so you could interrupt the person and make your own point and when they are keeping the I have that. Oh yes, we learn how to emphatically listen, yapped and listen. with your heart. You know it helps with that fuckin meetings- yeah! That's where One of the first places I learned to listen. Could you get to talk for two and a half minutes to three and a half minutes and the other thing you do. you have to shut up and listen to people. So I think as I look back over the whole career.

What I've learned is to listen to people with my heart. be curious, inject Humor is incredibly important a year on. Seventy, eleven years old, I'm gonna be next week as members. In any event, and as I look you and I'm enjoying all age, I levelled age and I feel you energetic and but but to me off if ghostwriting and I'm doing more and more in M love it more and more the singing It's me going is love to listen, loving to be curious, and loving to inject and not taking it? All that seriously I think I was what we share idea. I've gone coming upon that very same thing with what you know, mark most people,

who struggle with writing. working people, the worries of pro with it I'm having a good time. Don't take it all that, Sir seriously it's a book, maybe it's good, maybe bad, I'm kind of play. What fine or the artists as well what it. What are you find in common that there? What are they all share? They are driven an end and that the other thing I keep it I am driven. You are driven and I'm intrigue by what is the origin of the drive? What is the nature of the drive and the answer is, I don't know, and I love the fact that I dont know, because I keep on trying to understand it Why is not interesting, you're willing to accept the mystery of God at it? and also your commit. How are you have one? find out what drives people but also willing to accept the fact that I may never know I mean just take take.

You I mean you ve done him, do you know you ve got all sorts the things in your life- you can change it to be driven. You continue to hustle your way through Hollywood in Bob here. Why I mean is Annie. Why didn't you drive into a ditch yeah? as opposed to keep going down a highway right now I don't know either I mean I did I mean the How long have you sat with yourself? It's difficult exactly. Exactly so slow. So so all I can tell you that I am grateful. I am driven towards other people who are driven because I relate to them and on intrigue by them and and and and in this world were so easy to be depressed and drive off the cliff and give banana shit. People like Thorpe wroth and going through complete novel, ten high, that's worrying what were you asked just driven

driven up I've actually read aloud, the book rather but now, I'm beginning at the beginning, and that a port knows complain about which I just loved it more this time than I did the first act, but the who The thing about full Roth bees never stopped right. I can't stop. Writing why I not yet sometimes I asked a question in two ways: it's not it's not the cure. the question. I want answers, it's like really do we need more? Why I'm glad. You guys got enough momentum in these famous enough to keep working but Jesus not getting any better, as it were but also, I think, didn't you lay Shin I wanna be stimulated. I want and an end, and really grateful that I love Lulli Armstrong is much today's idea. When I heard him when I was well, that's your magic. You know, you know you hear music dude and you your music, when you re years old and again

a lot of music just grows with you its deeper gets different means different things. yeah over your whole life. You know it by dint of maize, into the work of its greatest any day. Man I enjoyed it. I had a great time and here's a hug through work or loudly thanks man. I think this is one of the better interviews overhead, but I was pretty sure or that it would be thanks data see you soon, ok, great how was David rich many books, the one that I last rebels, the God groove it was journey to faith in his memoirs, but he's also written books with or about Marvin Gaye Jimmy Scattering of Franklin re Charles. We became a James, JANET Jackson, Buddy Guy Don Wrinkled Jerry waxwork

it's all at writs rights, dotcom, aright, Easy W. I feet. Yes, come again fine gratitude, if you can Find hope was just hang on, where we really maybe things will get back to something? We are familiar with something comfortable or at least at least okay, open for ok people happy new year. guitar

uh huh

our lives Monkey labs, fond lives yeah

Mozilla.