« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 1240 - Steven Soderbergh

2021-07-01 | 🔗

There’s a reason Steven Soderbergh’s movies are always so unlike whatever movies he’s made before. He tells Marc his goal is to take things that have worked in other contexts and turn them into something that doesn’t feel like anything else. They talk about how this pertains to Steven’s movies like No Sudden Move, Behind the Candelabra and the Ocean’s Trilogy. They also discuss making movies on the iPhone, why his retirement didn’t stick, and how Contagion holds up against the real thing.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey folks, big news, big news, people if you ve been around a while, you might remember the first W tee shirts, which featured my three cats at the time and me well. We got the original artists are buddy deem to do a new shirt as me, and Buster and Sammy its full color this time and you can get it as a tea or a tank top as well as on a nice new mug hell, there's even a beach towel in some new stickers go to pod so, dot com, Swash W e f to check, out. The new designs are quick on the March tab at devotee of POD Dotcom, some of the class Deputy of March items are on sale right now, so take advantage of that: and I wish the new stuff to do it. ah why, while you're over there, that's pods bag p, o D S, W, H, g dot, com, Swash, W E, F or click march at devotee of pod dot com show me, Jimmy the Red and boost stir, a guy
all right. Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the plot buddies, what the fuck stirs what's happening? I doing are you holding up in the heat? Where are you it's it's Fuckin over man? We are watching the planet die its dying, I guess some of you have better seats and others currently, but we will all be the bleachers seats, are gonna, be fine. Come then ex few years doesn't matter where you sit and you're gonna see the show, You know what I'm saying you're, holding up our bureau making do, I hope, your keeping cool, I hope, you're, not sure, looking out, take it easy man slow it down get into a child's mind in lizard heart just you know, on a given the shade and turn it down slow down that metabolism get in his dark, but his life
I do you know what I'm saying it's hot, but it's school to reality. Today on the show. I talk to you, Stephen Solberg, the director goin on, way back to the sex, wise and videotape ocean Eleven twelve and thirteen traffic contagion the list goes on. I'm a huge fan of a vow of traffic, but I'm I'm a bigger fan, behind the candelabra. The the Liberace movie. He did, I think, for HBO. Oh I guide Fuckin Michael Douglas, just Gives into it man who were you talking to mumbles I love that movie, I love it. I love it ah. It's interesting about him because in comparison to guarantee, know who draws
from every type of movie ever in just kind of mashes it up matches. Together in his sort of Montana, collage of a thousand styles and shots and oh, my gosh is showed Hamburg, actually quite different e, he actually box into a style or tone for an entire film Annie holds it but he doesn't stay the same. I mean they're, all he's challenging himself. I think with tat Our Jean also with just tone style, and I watched the new film no sudden move, which is a straight up nor would dont cheat on beneath Del Toro and its multi layered, very complex nor and and it's totally tight, very specific, indifferent than his other movies. You just ass. He devil. you take chances. Any is a masterful director, I'm glad we got to talk, we did do it over zoom, because that was the way was set up initially, so
That is a that's gonna happen was exciting you talk to him as will intimidate. I was more intimidated by so De Bourgh. Then I was tearing Tino Cassandra, Burke seems like a kind of shit this guy straight shooter, just a widow yeah Hetty dude, but it worked out fine w deal with marked mariner sponsored by better help online therapy, as we begin to see light at the end of the covert tunnel, a lot of people you're, feeling down and emotionally out of sorts. You may not field pressed her at a total loss. But if feeling a little bit offer your relationships are suffering that could be assign. You should talk to somebody on in therapy can help better help is not a crisis wine. It's not a self help line. Its professional therapy done securely online, fill out of it Jane Eyre to Hell better help, assess your needs and match you with your professional licence, therapists who you can start
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Bob CAD gold plate to do the documentary about bury Mr Lucky but it was also the the founder of the influential Boston area. Comical ding ho, which you might have heard me talk about with the with lots of come especially the Boston guys will Jimmy tingle is one of those guys in Jimmy how, to organise a fortieth anniversary celebration of the dingo that you can. Why, this weekend. As far a fundraiser Jim is joined by Stephen Right, POL pot, Stone Bobcat, go to it then Leary Lenny Clark, Don Gavin Jack Gallagher. Tony pee can Roger System and in just a ton more like so many more comics to laugh and celebrate of berry and ding how you can watch it by making a donation to support berries, wife Helen, I wonder He died in twenty eighteen. His wife Helen was in the middle of her fight with stage for Non Hodge. a lymphoma, the fundraiser
I was with her medical and living expenses. The tribute is airing July. First, second and third, that's tonight, tomorrow and Saturday go to Jimmy tingle dot com for tickets,. the ding, how the ding HO I remember going there when I was in college when I first started doing comedy back in the mid eighties. I first saw it was. It was probably the last the last summer the doing how was open, but I was able to get on that stage who is back when tingle water, Monica tingles act remember IRAN wench was in it in a team called Bob and Enron. Lenny Clark used to host the open MIKE where he would do forty five minutes between acts. ah Mark Clark was the door guy. And die it was. You know, who's connected to the chinese restaurant, which I never ate at the we think I remember about performing
the ding. How was one time I was about to go on? I spilled drink on my pants and look like I'm pissed myself, and I had to go on like that, how to work with it. I had to work with it. I dont remember having a good set. I can remember what the inside of the club look like. I can remember what it felt like to be. On stage there by I don't remember anything about performing there, but I remember it I remember being there a member sitting at the bar withdrawn, wench and and and his partner Bob. after I came out the bathroom or after I Spelter A drink I myself and went to the bathroom to try to dry and to no avail, and I was just starting out and it was another traumatic experience. Really been thinking about this lately alot just thee PTSD necessary to sort of continue
pursuing comedy like I was thing back at some. The gigs that we were doing like has people when story up in the comedy store, people like eyes, nobody here MIKE. So what Don't you remember doing this, I mean injured when men people said at the beginning, now it's pact by them. this couple weeks. It was small audiences. They were distance, it can only let certain amount of people and people were complaining. I'm like a you fuckin at your mind, just get your work done for FUCK's sake. I mean do People forget I've done, shows for two people for people: eight people, nine people, twelve people, fifteen people- spread out I've two hundred miles to perform for seven people have done in shows in bars and discos in bowling alleys in fucking veterans halls. I've done shows, I mean I dont even know I did it. I was an angry neurotic furious jewish kid. In my early twenties.
just roaming all over the New England countryside, to walk into situations. I fucking no idea what is getting into to go up cold in and do a half hour before forty five, I dont know how I did it just thinking bout. It now makes me in arrest and uncomfortable in fucking, satisfying for that guy. Ambient. I wasn't I just I don't know who the kid was I do know that I oxygen somehow I kept going. I die each day I had shattered my That's a rejection to the point where some our another- I manage it, but there I still feel it the sensitivity, the terror, now when I do a theater and not even when I go on to store whatever but like somebody asked, having glance over personal records he's like do you you want do show at the at the record store and the man I thought,
of walking into a record store and doing yeah, just a gig on a small stage or whatever, just gig in a room. That's not a stand up, room or theatre not like would replace him like a candle. It man, I want to stress that I like the parameters defined the idle one year I don't I just I can't do it after years performing in every shit hole, You can imagine of all kinds, you know even if their bar, as it does mean that their built for performances, hotel ball rooms, I'm just like I M not. It was like The same thing with performing yet these outdoor shows are driving chose during the pandemic. Kid dad I want to stress that Gimme, a comedy club gimme, a small theatre, a big theater. I don't care. But the anxiety of just going up either cold or even within opener in it in a situation that
is makeshift. I'm just fucking. I can't it's like a trigger man. and I don't know if I would frame it is PTSD, because I m me I intentionally put myself into. Although situations were for years for years, going after the comedy store was like visiting the abuser and I dont when I really think about some of those gigs, it's just This to me, I did it. I learned my fucking craft. I know how to get in shape now, but I just terror and this even the thought of it. Now I m going on tonight you I've dynasty. typewriter with a bunch of half, you know have ideas, a few jokes, a few things and I'm gonna rip it out. and that's how I do it like my brain is on fire, I'm on edge. I'm furious at everything, a few is it myself in this it happens. Innately I dont know why. This is the way that my brain,
needs to generate why The method, but, like I it's like. I know like today heading into this thing, my brain I'll, just fuckin rip open out and I'll start putting things together and outline is stuff and I'll just go. Kick it around up there in front of people. It's terrifying. it's too there's nothing, not horrendous, sweet stressful about it. But it's always the way, I've done it, and this is how we gonna do it my happy about it. I don't know Oh, what's going to happen, I never give myself. The benefit The doubt given I've done this for half my fuckin life. At this point I am just ought I am the edge man and I know one somewhere votes- I came as not sober behavior. You may be need a meeting. Your draw your this or that this is but it goes, and I never remember that this is the way it goes I want to quit. I don't want it do it, this way, model wanna, do it anymore, I don't wanna am just get myself into this fucking. Now
down mode yes, it's my innate way of building up the courage, fucking do these show, because it's all life or death. For me, I'm not going up there with a waste and like mother choked in work, I'm goin, put it on the line. I guess that's what I live for, what makes it all worthwhile is for me to do stop there not knowing. What's going to happen to put myself in the situation where I have to be funny and not exactly sure where it's going to come from and wait for it to come and open come then oversights delivered to you. You don't know where from you just like your sort of like your kind of fishing, the air on fishing in the ether to see Viking catch some tag, some joke some brilliant system a moment. Will it come. Will it come in It comes out of nowhere its like there. It is it's been delivered that moment,
it's fuckin horrible, to have to depend on that wouldn't be easier. Just a right of fucking joke Marin would not be it You call on maritime, you dude, you re, relax man Remember the feeling you got as a kid being tucked into bed. Do you or the feeling, you get now in the arms of somebody. You of safe and secure right should be shared in the best case scenario, it's a feeling. security. That only comes to a human connection and that's why the people simply safe home security are so important. Of course, simply It has an award winning system that has all the technology. Belgium whistles, you d expect these days, but the people it simply safe, really take it to the next level where, it's a fire, a burglary, a medical emergency, a burst piper, even a problem. Why you're setting up the system simply safe as a person with the expertise you need? We are
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and this is me talking to Mr Solberg Attire man. His things got me like all those people in that one room, the aid it is causing me more stress, then having to be in person with that many people soon soon even there will be. Are you gonna make a movie are on. Zoom is something you can do. Oh god, when anybody want to see them, I dont know we soon to be used to it. I mean it's no, but it's gotten it me ain't just like in right I don't know. Do I get like anxious on them because feels very perform it, it yeah and When I feel like I'm expected to
deliver I I get like really I get really anxious is like a new thing. I mean do you waiting for performer yeah. Did you ever? Were you ever nervous sure I wish you have five minutes ago is filled with dread and anxiety, and it wasn't until I saw your face and others there's there is it'll, be fine oh yeah, I get dread Alla time. Might not much doing stand up anymore. I don't know when that went away, but it it was It was about thirty years into my career. I spent it along I'm pretending not to be afraid and then and surely one day you like I'd. I know how to do this. So you are generally have anxiety when you have to approach a film. No, no, that kind of stuff doesn't make me nervous at all. Professional staff to me is not worth like getting really emotional about personal stuff. I get very anxious
About and that's what I mean, something something is like leaked over: you don't mean the hunting, what used to be strictly professional now, fuels that gets leaking into something personal ads making. He really anxious what are you saying that in this age of social media platforms and easy act- ass, the almost anybody that your boundaries are being a little strained it has its terrible. Yes, it's really? It's it's done its work. Worst experiments ever you may the general experimental of capitalism's exploration of social media and mining, our brains entirely well just just as another chapter in need you now How did we get here but yeah? You know it's just and also the the continue or experience of,
counter intuition regular of watching people. You you'd think awakened Absolutely no what's gonna happen here, and that is absolutely not what happens like it's not how people react right. Or a spot like that's its disorienting. Like an example of that. Well, I think it's when you try to let's say instead of our eyes, were disincentive eyes herbs. People to do what finger and now the rice, and so how many times it happen. The plan is announced. A few do acts we will give you are rife horribly wrong, either There, too many people show up in the thing just crashes yeah. Nobody shows up in its a complete waste of time. got in both instances. We
feel an image hypocritical, but we feel are first reaction. Is how did you not see that coming right, right, right, right, others, just it's just so crazy. Fifty four The proposition that you could see both things coming in your hoping that it can be more than one person that the real bad thing is: when you get there and there's no one there, but to people you can feel like. Well, I mean there's two. So what we gotta put on a show. I guess like you said it's fifty fifty and that's that That implies a certain reality of of were acknowledgement of sir de it is unsettling sure I get a nice real, it's real in its true, but its unsettling white boy. I mean you, don't have their very few things we have control over. I imagine a movies one of them that surprised by ninety five percent are right. It. Certainly in terms of the year when you're working on the thing.
The amount of control that you're able to exert on that thing, is it- the normal of my most people, most people, gotta work and have that kind of power? Of course, by. At the same time in mind, experience you, the any if you you're, you're mistaken, if you feel you really Control over the chimney human beings involve yeah yeah, that's it we're just are too many people are you know it, I saw you. I do now closer with Tom Papa, but I see him alive doing carbon s. On the other night terms, a good friend is falling. Yeah yeah, it's like I said, do out to sit in the back of the room, has gone on after my Cynthia watching him like watching something that has always existed in commie he's got some Of timing that seem sort of like ever present, you know
throughout the entire undertaking, since a stand up starting doing stand up. You know yet it's it's your right, it's a sound in there with theirs theirs it's a verbal of equivalent of a kind of music. Yes right, yeah yeah, a rhythm rhythm, the out for sure goes all the way back goes all the way back to the Bush belt. So you just you basically just called him. The oldest comic yeah humans. For us I'll, do a right to their face there there part of the continuity for sure, so I I watch I watch a new movie I was thinking about. Could I get took the Ets? it's it's like a multi tiered Anwar. I guess, is really what it is in and it s really it it sort seeks to address almost all the the buttons of new are in a way. Doesn't it absolutely also ya in that thinking about the universe at the movie that you, based on the underneath. I start,
I just saw Richard Roberts. Yod Mock movie, recently got a couple of em and yeah, there's something profound and simple about the way that guy made movies. Was he some sort of influence on you when approaching this type, a material? absolutely. I mean. that. Like you said, there's a there's just up there. Clarity to it that I think is deceptively simple, in Roberts movies, yeah, but also in the best examples of this. John or I like, when it's done when it stun really well the day. They achieve a sort of clarity that requires. In my experience, a lot of very specific effort here and- and so I think, Sometimes that gets lost interest in you outright, but there's just dumb. for this I wanted to
when to distorted b, in the room, if a certain kind of film from that period, but I, I didn't want it to be a purely representational the creation of that Europe Wide Definite I felt that I mean a devil, has a very controlled and consistent look to it in terms of the year there the tone of the color right and also in the way it seems like you, structured, almost all the shots. I couldn't tell whether my screener or was intentional or is a very wide lends its of you so that so that now is there, four realises that totally on purpose and what what effect do you get from that? What is it do psychologically? What do I need to know? oh well I'd die. Would I would I would never venture a guess as to what its effect might be. but but its intention, I think, was
You saw him, in an era. The two are all way bring you out of space in which you have a, Ninety degree grid essentially right a world in which things are, that squared off right I mean that I know that sends incredibly pretentious, but that really fellow wrong to me to have images that that what were that sort of square right Ok, so I purposely went and found this set of lenses that embraces the inhale. Anomalies of me anymore. If a glance ok like They are just like we're going with its right, yeah yeah, it's got its bendy. The eyes were just we're, gonna do it than I thought. This is perfect for us
so interesting. As I've said, they're gonna die. This must be the screener. I guess Completely adapted are now at a time of day, which was that it was good the gay, but now I gotta go back and watch it is like no. This is on purpose. This is it no, but I now you just did content with anything that is a sort of the old, reliable way of moving forward. No, not at all, it's it's! It's more. Is there a way to blend different things that have worked before in this something that doesn't feel exactly like either Olympia the story, how you, because you just I mean the execution of the story and how it continues to unfold in how you have you know you ve got you ve got a mob movie. You gotta revenge movie. You know you got a guy seeking some sort of purse then we'll just as you got several different factions of the mob, then you ve got the inner wanted
biggest american industrial, black Siskiyou involved in this document. We your approach, TAT Material Day, you realize liking. Oh, I guess the real challenge outside of of finding these. These new ends is your. How do you flattened this story enough for it to us sink in I know exactly where I think that That's too. the running conversation and it doesn't really conclude until you ve, walked and delivered the movie. What information should be released at what point? and by whom right right? like that's Lydia is really really comes down to that, because how you end up doing that directly affects the audiences in building the ability to engage. and sort of Give you a little bit runway like you, want them chasing you a little bit
they need to feel intention right, a mate they they need to feel like their interest, will be rewarded, and so, if you if you confused them or war, somehow allow them to disconnect you're just gets here, urge him to pick them back up. So this was a movie. Where were you when we are constantly analyzing? What character knows why when this scene, come here so late. We really wanted the mass to be clean, yeah. Why meta definitely wise, because even if you like you're like not unlike Chinatown or some of the more complicated nor movies, you know even either if you think you miss Sub Day by the time all the the subs, all the stories pay off you like, oh what? Oh, no, yes, others that triple like what the fuck all really and then, at the end, you sort of like aright was good we're gonna because look we were we were in love.
in one regard, we were following the math, of the typical, no war, because the movie does not end with a gun battle right right and it doesn't know, and with the with with the woman dying or or getting away with something right now no, not in the version. I did the idea, why I mean it it's really interesting in this movie. It though you have given, like I talked to share and stone about mosaic you and I was able to watch out unfortunately, I just watch the movie version I didn't in setting up for it, but it's Like in this outing, the Can you really did that was you know, I'm kind of pushing the envelope was using that lends, so it bent out at the sides which also I can create another. I think back on it and you know what you're saying about the ninety decreasing, but it also is a reminder of of that. They watching a movie and some degrees, which is you debts which
Strip a kind of the old, their french new wave trick. You know a surprise you it's an illusion, but yet Well, I didn't want it. I didn't I didn't. I didn't think of it in my mind as a move, as opposed to a film. I think that those are slightly different things, and so for me, but that the more movie the more movies it was, the better our interests, So what you wanna tell me what the difference is. So I make sure I know. One of them winds awards gate can you tell me which would go? I think I think it's. I think its fairly obvious, that if you If you add somebody, if you were doing like you, know the equivalent of a flashcards task here, where you you, you held up the poster for A piece of cinema yet and just ass. The apparent like do you can
a film or a movie and just to Baghdad via their, the ones that they are fighters films. Would it would in the aggregate have more wars ha. I think and you didn't make one of those you made a movie, this is a move in the movie movies are debating. Are we putting around the world that you're not gonna want to win awards? You not expecting awards, it's it's in terms of its intention. Ok, so what is that to enter Tang, suggest, entertain and when you do something like Mosaic, which was involved in app and involved sort of aid, an ability to sort of in as the gate, the movie the movies plot through other means and go? deeper than you would normally. That is Also? I assume a more complex Entertainment? Yes,
yeah that was waiting. Even there was certainly didn't know what to call it. He I like that that was stout was a thousand challenge, shovel why? What do you think was then, from your point of view, the last movie, you may hear them at last film, less chair, a really an end. So as I do that come down to a business decision for you, though it just it just is it you look at the material and you take the gig, efforts, if it's not hell yeah there, two categories, healthcare and now ok- so how you can be anything that urethra absolute, because I have to be honest way. I am at the behind the candelabra I've watched like four times. Oh my god,
J Yo Yo, primarily for the line where Michael Thou Goest goes. Who were you talking to mumbles they do. I mean you must have been on the set of that of that it wants you, Michael Douglas, do that you must have just been entertained every fuckin day they really chests. you know ran toward it. If they do Really it was really. until watch. My plan Just just do it like just do it and then it was a really. It was a really for me, a really special kind of experience. Because in theory, I was gonna, be my last any way but yeah. I know that I've heard that you could I do that to like it over the pandemic. I realize like not only do I not miss stand up, and maybe I'm all better, but I give you sort of like. Why was I doing this to begin with how come
I feel relief, maybe I'm down, so why? Why drove you too, to decide? that you'd make might be done. I think Just the business was making me a bit nutty. I didn't understand the process? spy, which Lord, scale important decisions about you know where everything should go yeah we're being made because they seem so so much in opposition to me I experience of how to solve creative problems like how to how to answer a question? I it seemed absolutely aware that that that there was- and there is a certain amount of information that I dont have asked S2 about- why they make the decisions they may right. You know I'm I'm I am even though I'm working for them.
I don't know it assumptions they make about growth, I'm all migration subscript cause. I don't know, making a lot of ties. The decisions they make based on their own fear of failure. Well, if that's true, that's not a knock, because that most of the that's most of its yeah, that's so, I just wish that at that point in TWAIN. Third, in my unwillingness to acknowledge here, you know I was just making me really frustrated and I say that I think afterward. I realized a kindness I let it and bleed. I thought it was about my job and it wasn't about my job. We're has once I started doing my job again. I was really happy and server. I realize that I allowed you know my my
Georgia. Bafflement too, who to really take me off course and slow me down. Yet I shouldn't I shouldn't be like giving that much real estate like just go to work right to judge yourself against this sort of like yeah nebulous Support meant for with the intentions of the industry yeah, while the EU is again weird yeah like I was in some free floating like funeral or some anyway, it's stupidly I'd, let it kind of rhino bleed into my day, job, we're, and once I once I got past that everything got better you did not for awhile right, it was there. It was very, very brief. It was It was embarrassingly paramour. The plan b. I gonna do this now. I was gonna, do that was going to take painting less still you, yes and how
How do you find east of painting now? Without that? I never did you never. Never you never know I mean it. I got. Should I think too, two lessons in and then I got the script for the neck and that green you people of that, there is we in that wages? I love donor in that's like like steady work, that's not gonna make a movie is right. We got a whole thing to do here. That's gonna! Go over your many episodes yeah, oh, so much fun. There was so much fun now when you, talk about it. It's like you! When you talk about the job. You know because, like you're you're, a guy who, like there are certain movies you ve made that you have made an indelible impression on me. I mean all the way from the beginning, because I went to college with Steve Brill so when you cast him. Oh shit really. Are we to do comedy together, omega yeah, but remember that movie is being like some sort of globally. You know
game, changer on so many levels. Right, let's, let's, let's not debate there. Would you like to India lets. It was an unexpected sitting right. So then, that such you going and then over the course of the sing like we're you you know, did you did you study Phil yeah, but not formally not formally so, you may enter aimed at a school for it, so this is it like. So you kind of an auto died act in this medium, bye, bye, bye law- I am just I've- just itself- taught yeah really by law if in a legal base- and I think you would the downward Kate would have to say that. so the evolution of this skill set will that Well, that's interesting to me because any time you change. The approach that you take. This movie is really the movie you just made is
like any other movie. You made to some degree because you are also right, because your constantly employing you know everything that you ve learned everything that your fan of in everything that you want to try in each movie, but use but you do have certain consistency around like you know too, Oh no! I guess what I'm trying to get at is you see you can, talking about the job? So do you not see yourself, as in Did you see that their directors is primarily an occupation that you apply to in any way that the material demands? Do you not think that a point of view or some sort of otter authorship is necessary. Well I'm an absolute believer in the idea of a just cider right like the other needs to be a decider right, and I think the best results have been when
that decider is very, very specific, and rigorous about. All of the choices have to be made to get something done. You know It's I tell people like if you like, answering questions. Do not take this John yeah. answered. Quite that's all it is, but you but you're answering them in the face of the NATO. Ask if not before asking you questions. Are they yellow you, like actors Producers like yeah, oh yeah, lighting people like where you have which lines would we so ok, everything's, all right? everything all the time. That's that's the job and the or the more unified The answers are, I think the better, the better the peace. Do you think the ever think that, because of your your natural, compulsion to to you knew things in change things up. All the time has
in some way dinner. I do a specific voice Do you feel that people can see a sort of a movie and guide the Soderball movie, I didn't know I I I don't think I don't know again to me, their entropy tat becomes true that becomes a. A potentially gain. first thing: then you're men. I don't I think, being a brand in any sense of the word and in terms of its a terrible idea, because you expected to deliver on their brand the actors that yeah exactly done its n n n. You know, what's what keeps me you know activated is the possibility of some
in front of me that that I'm gonna Learn something new right, an end get here yet challenged in some way. That's gonna be knew where it has demands that I've never had to meet before my that by definition, I wanted to keep changing. There is a point earlier on. I think right where you know you you were new were pushing the envelope for yourself and you and I think some movies, we're not received, as you know, in any real way, but I mean book, but do you see those in retrospect, as necessary warning experiences, o absolutely in every particular its fund a loose people money. I don't enjoy I don't enjoy losing money for people Why? the point is have to give it. If, if at any stage
I mean unless you're talking about catastrophic failure after catastrophic killing you can. second guess yourself? You can only make something that you want to see that you would stand in line to go there and then, if you're if you're getting into some sort of predictive state, I just think now you don't know where of north is and so Luckily, occasionally like these centric circles. You know something that people seem to want to get eyeballs on at that particular moment than theirs, could be a follow up here than it does like that. I've done all in a row that have done like that have done a couple in a road that tank like it's just all all the same methodology right. So it's this is, I don't know what else to to listen to other, then
my own desire to see something right, so you so, in other words, you're, not you're, not thinking like this isn't gonna sell. Your thinking like I want to follow this route. Is I love this thing and I'm gonna make it yeah? I think you need to have an understanding of the real world economics. an idea that requires, certain amount of resources to do well right the potential audience for it like I do. I do think you you, you don't be stupid, that too often, What do I mean you ve had experience with I mean you, I mean, I don't guess you like doing these junkets on some level only when they live. You know what I did. I I just I said. Here's how I would like to structure these I'd like
to be law. I'd like the conversations to be law the then I can do the right and so that NATO that'll give out. It's the only way to stay, saying right in its also the only way to have fall through, but also the downside of that, but in because you're a sophisticated thinker and intellectual person, but the only downside of the longer for many years. It gives them more things to take out of context, but that's the deal. if you're going to roll right yeah, but in Algeria when that, when the, when speculating about the film industry area, because The third rail then enough here then, no. The pendulum has gone very far in a certain direction. There's a lot more importance to have took it is very hard Speciale through that. How do you think you're film everything contagion held up to the real thing dear reader, I mean I think the science is is- is sound the things we missed,
were again big giant examples of irrational behaviour? Here you know we're just we missed a lot of that but that was a leader, readership problem yeah you that you would be in a situation in which the, in would be in some sort of disarray and confusion? these are things that in a week in trying to keep it fairly, intimate that we we we miss- and we thought the position- a mere than the amount of real estate, that the Jude LAW character occupying contagion, wouldn't be any larger than that. We never imagined that it would become like past yeah yeah yeah yeah we looked at it is like twelve percent and when it the fifty percent, we're like loud and see that coming right right, but other than that the process
for the people that are in the middle of it, You know we tried to real show it's it's it's a very complex thing. very smart people working on how are you out you handle it? Would you do over the year? You are we were in New York the whole time until From the beginning and chill I have to go to Detroit to shoot no said move in September. So we were in a kind of there for that period which, which had a lot of but a lot of pain, beer and just location the bite I ended up after we ve been. No sudden move in LOS Angeles. I went from Detroit to LOS Angeles just in time for their wave. so it's really
it's really been while to see it to see it. evolve like this. In the end to to to really take on the fact that, when we were making contagion and all The people we were consulting with were saying. You know that is going to happen. Right, like you, you just can't quite wrap your mind, run it and then, and then to see it. and in many ways I mean a ban, the number of the mortality? Of course, in contagious was my tired, but in many ways what was terrifying about this was to talk to some of our consultants and have them go. Oh this actual real world thing is Worse then the one we came up with four contagion really so they're, like just there d like this thing, they call it knows too toes there like this is bad
in terms of the complexity and full body. You know, innovation that caused the the like this thing is normally covered yeah yeah yeah there like our thing, was locked simpler. It just ideology quicker in most cases this. This is a sum it up. it's a real it's a real testament again to to. These these scientists there's some technology that exists now it exists that right. That's why we got to a vaccine so fast, pretty may in any case like it. It's interesting, like you, said to me: you know that there are bigger problems and then yes studio issues yeah movie Bend movie business issues but you know you seek to. You
we we all did just lock down and everybody watched more movies and more entertainment than they ever when their white they caught up on movies? I saw things that in what they say, I think that in sea, before they nay, they used to ground themselves and keep saying, but I keep asking me love, is that even in this movie that you just made the movie no sudden move, there. There is an environmental message. There is a a message in there. I guess it's not unlike some of the more Some of the nor is a deal with with in a wood with nefarious industry and in politics, the, but is it it is appreciate, an end and current. Realisation of of you know, industry, fucking people and more living in the garbage. So I guess as a filmmaker do, is there a risk its ability as an artist. How do we do just go on making movies, because I don't know what art is going to really change. anybody on people always talking about like well.
Aren't you you got to do. You are cuz, that's where change comes from like what a paintings like we would Canadian. What do you mean it's going to change anything like I got them such from this movie. I just watch which you are not calling a film, and yet, in all a lot of times I can do is go like while we it was fucked up back, then you know but contagion. That was that the permanent that that's, under the future. What is the responsibility? Well, personally, feel it's to be is accurate, as you can generally speaking, yeah. Why why and again we get into a very subjective space of well. How can when you talk about mine- you talk about being accurate, her what's troop yeah, you know what Then what is a lie? What's stood what's the movie equivalent of a lie and it's a long list, earnings- and there are some very There'S- some very good-
and certainly some some some very successful movies on it, and then the question becomes well, but if the eye Well understands that then? Is it really a lot like if they know yeah under what you're doing just do it right here, I am to say that they can't have that yeah by what you guys makes it you have it, but I'm saying it's really personal, I my mind. Definition of a movie lie. is going to be different from somebody else. Like what I watch. A movie lie. Well, the people can change in two hours we get it yeah, I won't I won't go is dark that people can change right, but it is weird sort of relationship that we have with with with stories in general, but movies, I think, especially because there so powerful because its
a powerful medium when you experience it, you know in a theater with our people there's nothing, really exactly like it many still any still enjoy that you're still making movies. With that in mind, I am I every I would like their movies being on a giant screen, yet it simply becomes a matter of economics like if, if I don't If I'm not making the kinds of movies that that draw people to movie screens there is that's, not a business. I guess we, I guess, if we just keep making the tvs, bigger and people have a dedicated room in their house and the other expect it's getting close it is banned by the way. Speaking of I don't know why none, how together, why? I say that for the moment that sounded great, but so you like you, have experienced an ok, so you made a couple movies on iphones was apt to prove a point or because why mean the ugly?
I met Mazur Confront of way to say it. You work you Eve, didn't experiment in you founded successful, and you were impressed by the results and it is an option for you, but This movie you just made, you went found these lenses that were far from an Iphone and so do they do those exist on the same plain to you, oh sure, apps fully in all instances. The the the here The motivation is the same, which is too you know see. If there's some get a malign of the real world genre, my own pray, occupations, the format form of distribution right now to so in the case of the unseen and pipeline bird.
Fascinated by this technology and end wouldn't wanted to see if there were things tat. I could do with this technology that I couldn't do with any other technology. Just don't sepia like what's what's possible, what's not possible, what's different and in that way, because they were indeed formats. It took me to movies to really get to feel that, in my walk away, was I think both of these are closer to what I wanted if I'd use, quarter, normal cameras, that I was able to put the lands in places. That were specific to these devices and move the camera in a way that would be very dangerous to move anything larger right and that that was contributed. Is to write like the visual scheme of the filter, and you did
have? To put it all, that was the best spurs and you didn't have to put any one endangered, get the shots, Well, that's what I mean that makes sense. I guess you also learn that in a pinch, if. economic collapse in the infrastructure doesn't hold. If your phone is too, working, you can make a movie, I approach of this industry, so your education like saying the EU itself time I mean who are the most informative you know, people in your life as each movie as you got opportunities after that, first movie was primarily de peas. Who were you liking it? Where did you pick up the language of film from Well, I'd I'd, you know, I'd seen lot of films. I did when I says saying himself taught or that I didn't go to school for film is a little disingenuous only because the reality was. I was going to a laboratory high school on the LSD campus
and every day after school, I was hanging out with the actual college films do ok yeah so for four years. I was that class every day after school. Ok, ok, see you yours joking it in the real stuff, yeah I've cell table in process in everything else. And so then the once I graduated high school the plan seem very straightforward, right, right, speck, screenplays and eight short films made. That's how you the Euro, That's how you get yourself notice here. You know you can get anywhere if you don't make stuff, so whose ideas in terms of liking O the films that drove you you're that you were your sort of like rosetta stones. What were they well at that point. it would have been. I mean castle arrest, you had existed for a long time, so he was kind of em Ankara, Bia, but then Claudia whilst girlfriends,
the big deal and then then, you have Jarvis younger, even Lynch spite we like it's it's you can feel you can feel the hunger in the middle of the decade with studios, just took back complete control, a desire to see something that fell hand made right right right, Sir, like Solana, in terms of people, you could judge yourself against and in terms of what you thought you wanted to do. Those were the guys well get those what yeah those were, those those seemed what's that words, they weren't arms length, but they were not an impossible. It was possible. its Roy drifting out of all those people. You ve gone on to make your more. I think, independent comes more studio films in any of em really well, Well, spike euro spice been very active young maid movies for everybody else,
in Germany, the owns all of his own negatives, so yeah That's a success that I know that I cannot claim to your own any negative, the ions seven. So when who did oceans the damage That's a franchise right, the potentially but like you know what we're talking about in terms of of the possible buddy of becoming that those movies were definitely a brand? You may your your point of view or Solberg Signature might not have been a brand, but after you did to those real like one more, that's it You know I mean I was the those from those movies. For me here provide an opportunity to play there
that's Unita like there's. No there's, no, there's nothing else. That comes my way that really allows for that exact form of of being a child. for me, because even something like Logan Lucky is, is much more control. The visually then one of the oceans moving right. So air there in my mind there just their version, these sort of little. In a little rainbows. Amazing, is yours type, a movies with that expensive, a cast of that kind of talent they dont really just like they used to I mean it was Are we commenting to do for big studios to do? Does Matt have comedies or even war movies with you know ever Ray studio player, they had and- and they were spectacles so idea just that thing that you kind of ree.
And did adder or or at least engaged gauge that that that type movie again for the first time and you have decades probably well. It was you know, I think, a testament to to the late great Jerry Weintraub into the cast tat. We were able to do three of those in six years and keep everybody when they must have loved it. They must not worth only you, you don't just saying that that speaks to their that speaks to their connection, and you know that's that's. That's him, That's a rare thing! You know! Bs, yes, ass any in in it we like to me, but I decide relationships in an movie stars and even though I've talked to so many different people, I still have a certain amount of phantom in awe and assumptions around. You know people making a working even with Elliot Gould, YO and and Karl Reiner
yet these different decades of show business represented along with this new generation of of movie stars. I mean for you'd like Stepping into that, even though you ve got to help the thing and provide a space, is your party, that's like holy shit. Well, I was scared I mean I was I was now. I was for a lot of reasons. The the the the opportunity that provided if, if, if it were, you know well executed We were significant via gets its. It just means more freedom, failure to take an even bigger chances on things like it, just Europe Conversely, if if, if it crashes the next closes off learned not to write you know these are not, problems in any real sense, bear
there there strictly. What in trying to figure out what the next two or three years of work would look like, you know how people respond as something is. Gonna have a big effect on that yeah yeah. So, Oh, so, if I have something that feel is ambitious and a certain sort away. It's gonna take a real live leap. it's on the part of the people financing it. You probably don't want to go in with that. After the catastrophe right and not a little more, those were huge movie and then be mad about it. You know, like you know. You know, I think you need to be smart about timing, the timings timings really important and I've been the beneficiary of many on many occasions, but it's it's. You know that's just showing up in with them.
I think at the right time, village, which just you can't force them right: yeah yeah in sometimes it's just luck, cosmic timing. But I would argue you know, being the right place at the right time. If actions with somebody are, are really you know toxic or a few, if you're, if europe- just not very good at at any sort of cannon. Some people are born. You know work. with them in a way that they don't feel diminished or threaten me, ask something like a few You can't figure that out we'll be asked to that place. Which will mean being in the right place at the right time. A yeah a like in that seems to be like it seems that the unwary you're. Speaking too, there were there, but people that were like that, and because of that
because of the intimidation factor and end. The fear factor were able to dominate the industry and and now those that paradigm is shifting and there, a relief there. Is that what you're addressing? which I hope is gonna shifted, should shift its its you feel like you ve, been bullied indifferent times by direction. Entities by individuals- that's good, but you know the guys No, it's more! It's more! You know that that the visa, I was just never in a situation in which, I was dealing with somebody who viewed me: that sort of friends its worry way or I wanted to torture, media you're right you're right I mean they. Ve got pleasure out of my displeasure. I just went
and that's nothing? I never was in a room with somebody who didn't turn out to do that. Right but I never had anybody do that to my face in a room right right. Do you as some these guys actors over and over again your relationships with them, you know many Matt Damon enacting cheated couple times to six six wow. What what? What are you expect where our that relationship evolved in and how do you work with actors generally speaking future? Do they just you expect them to know what to do who'd you show up and do their job entrust their interpretation of it. Or are you more? Is it more collaborate, Well, yeah I mean I'm, I'm hoping they really bring a lot to the table here, like I'm I'm I'm I'm really lying to you now have the.
Default mode, be that they are. You know completely yeah leaning forward and and sharing anything that their thinking of feeling and I'll do the same end. And I'm look for I'm looking, for, ideas and looking for to be stress, testing. You know not just in what way is the working with people, especially dawn beneath your, but not only them there it'll just talk about their role here, they talk about the whole thing. They talk about scenes, that their non ran because they know, like it's a whole as a whole they re, not any one person, so they evades you it. They have the experience and the intelligence to oh you ve got him. You ve got a look at the whole thing
yeah they're, so good he had done was so good and beneath shows ear. He does his sang and he's always great, but your mandate in his dislike, yet their approach only good actors. I guess it's sort of astounding really, in its. It must be clear. It must be earned. I can imagine what it's like to be good. At that In what way you tell me marred tell me what is like to be a good act, I'm trying I'm trying to say what is it feel I'm trying Stephen I'm trying to fit. You remember like afterwards. Like do the one time I acted on stage and a high school, I have no memory of the actual thing. I we're coming out. Member leaving a literally don't remember what idea, why think Ike? you know, as I try to do more of it imply myself to the opportunism having and taking more chances with it. I feel I find that their once you walk into
what you're going to do or where you're going to come from that being the it's an awfully present experience and when you come out of it, it's like like that, feel Then you had like what has happened and then but then the fact is, you have to repeat it, which I think is the bigger part the job is like. How do you keep doing now? and in an how do you make that continually interesting and you ve got with guys it? Somehow figured that out, o the absolute because that's the whole job, it's like hey that was great. You're, really nailed it. Now we're going to do it twenty more times and they do it I dont, know, you'd, I'm I'm I'm trying to unite. I enjoy in Ireland. I- and I will- and I want to believe I'm I'm doing- ok with it and sometimes but I do and that's good, and do you enjoy? Do you enjoy everything that goes with it Other tasks yeah like this year- I mean it is the social part of it. Ok,
yeah yeah. Most of the time me I'm a little like you know, in order to sort of maintain my thing in not bleed like you because of my insecurity over my life. I've known like you, don't hang around if you're, not if you're feeling needy you get off so I didn't write it out and then you know Convince yourself that you're, ok and get back in saddle? You know so put out that yeah enjoyed. I like a standing around eating talking about What were you gonna? Where are you going to say that we were pushing till the end. Your advice about the towel on them hotel. Room chair is is so right and so true. and so useful here, but I just wanted to say thank you and I wanted you to know that every time I place a towel a hotel room chair. I think about what
I'm honored and moved, and I'm thrilled that I helped in some way or you can reach one person were good. Gladly Romania and I and interior movies have been very important to me. Many of them, I e r unforgettable, and, if ever really changed the way I look at film. Well, I appreciate that. Yes, as a movie direct, and I appreciate it how a thing is just a guy that spend time in hotel rooms Take care man. I really enjoyed the movie ain't. You got to talk to you. no sudden move is now streaming on HBO Max, entreat yourself to any number of Stephen sort of films. What a great talk gotta get to talk to that guy I'm glad to help them out with my my
important towel advice for motel room desk chairs yeah, I believe that was an attempt to normal this package, the sponsored by better help, as we begin to see light at the end of the covert tunnel, a lot of people are still feeling down and emotionally out of sorts online we can help better help is a crisis line, it's not self help its professional therapy done securely online. You can start communicating and under forty eight hours, wherever you are in the world, schedule, weekly video or phone sessions and changed therapists if needed. and our listeners get ten percent off their first month of online therapy at better help dot com slashed. Beauty. I visit better hd lp dot com, so I W Tia here comes to guitar.
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Transcript generated on 2021-07-19.