When Zoe Lister-Jones found herself dealing with the anxiety and uncertainty we all encountered during the pandemic, she made a movie about the end of the world. Marc talks with Zoe about how she often finds herself channeling her fears into her work, including a filmography which she calls a direct investigation of lifelong codependency. They talk about Zoe’s start in acting, growing up with artists, and her experience jumping into studio filmmaking with The Craft remake.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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all right? Let's do this? How are you what the fuckers, what the plush bodies, what the fuck sticks, what's happening? A marked mare- and this is my pod CAS w e f. It's called
how's it going. These shows it you're. Listening to now we're done
last week because we needed
this week done
because my producer Brendan is,
taking as some are and are with the Pham. As
say when you have a family and take our inner me. I dont know from that
but so this is actually occurring the day after
I played Largo with my band, the unnamed band
because I didn't want to name them out of a sense of it.
security. I just wanted to play
And many of you knew about the lead up in what was I, what was at stake
very interesting what was at stake, which was, as I explained to you all a while back. It was the trauma, the trauma of failure, the trauma of failure in front of people.
Which oddly I made my life as I talk to you. We weeks before the
for months about the the final
show it music camp. Where I crept out
with a bunch of guys were wasted, my god only to recap the story. The movement
performing on stage in the capacity that I did last night, which would have been last week.
Are you listening now was to this of own it?
be the ban leader. Do the singing pick the songs and do it with enough
confidence to where I was
falling into myself onstage.
in trying to disappear as I perform on stage. That's that's some.
The magic of insecurity is not entertaining, which means, if Europe day
trying to do a show of any kind, but inside
I do like I
want be here. I'm gonna check out
I leave my body here and there and see if they can see.
At magic of horse. Eighty they can see it you'll find
because you ve left you ve left your body. It's
oppressive. Even I don't even think would be a if you set up like that. If you said now, I'm going to leave my body and wet my
I empty machine perform
for you. Why?
I go elsewhere and feel bad about
but I dragged that machine through. So
I don't know if you'll see this magic, but it's happening.
If he presented like that people do I go. This sounds like it should be good, not good. It's not it's sad,
and it's it's not entertainment. So, ultimately the attempt was too
at least immersed myself in the songs on the plane. I we seven up belief in my singing
I playing to have to do it with this guy,
The guys that I have chosen to us too
support me in one that being Jimmy Vena, who is gonna,
a couple songs but then ended up point all us on his part, the band and was into it so I'm playing with Jimmy Bovina, who you know from being cones bandleader who
don't be so many links over the years, and let me you so many guitars and
I got a real hero of mine, real honour to play with them in a way that I have
before, which was as an equal.
Obviously I am not I just play when I play
an emerald jolting choppy in Choky up there, but I think that that all that a kind of
ease up pretty your time, and we definitely I definitely
transcended the trauma. I definitely
reconfigured it in my mind. I did act
if sound therapy
a sound based trauma.
out of tune, sound based trauma,
on the show. Today I talked to Us Zoe Lister Jones ass. She came
a point when I was actually talking
how Hunt Helen
If you remember Helen said she had just shot a movie directed by Joey and that she was an interesting person would make very good guess
and I watched a movie
Movie is how it ends, which came out early. This summer is now available to buy or rent on digital plan
form, she's an actor.
who was irregular and the serious DE located Whitney the new girl she'd been emerge.
These, like the other guy, she directed to other features, band aid and the craft legacy
and I thought well. Why don't? I talked to this woman about her work.
And she agreed, and it was
is very funny. I liked her,
I think you'll enjoy it. So
Oh, the songs is a great show I had
Rico, Martin, do comedy and for him armoire, who, I think very funny when the funniest guys
he's like a young dude he's funny,
don't you even, I think it's funnier haven't felt this way
I haven't, had the sort of a
poverty, man crush on any a comic since probably barbarity.
Yeah he's gonna his huge now, so maybe maybe you'll become a big star, not talk to me. Maybe that is that's what I saw it. I saw it
I got a sad obsessed woman,
Funny guy! That's all I'm saying Jesus Christ back off back off work if you're feeling depressed or struggling with uncertainty
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yeah. So, basically the structure of the show was we got
who's going got, will a blues gone those little shuffle to it? Nab the band went out there and they started that. I walked out strapped on my guitar.
Do a monologue setting up the evening will better that jump, wooes feel behind me kind of
Britain away old school did I
and rifts some some
relatively MIDI blues rifts, though it's weird that
like I don't play with people, often and so that the difference in com
but is between me gotta,
really kind of locking in here in the garage and meet on stage with somebody just felt a little guilty. A little tentative I'd like to get past that,
This is it. This is a big deciding thing for me. Is that ok, I've done it.
Now. Do I just put it behind me and say: like that's done, or do I try?
get better at it does
we'll need another cranky Jew
middle age, white guy, playing guitar with his friends publicly. Now am I,
trying to be a professional musician. No, do I think I'm good
not have to be entertaining alongside my comedy, I think so I think so doing
get better. Yes, am I going to judge myself against people were
much better than me, and use that to be myself up with probably probably gonna do it, or that was I
b with what I did. I was so we did that we
the blues and we went into the space man three
What would Jesus then lorry did somebody
funny dark humour that came back. We did
What goes on by the velvet underground? We did the strong by the diamonds, then not for him did some some work up there. Some funny work.
and now I came back. We did the ISIS yeah we did. We did ISIS by Bob Dylan
That's where I am. I might have made a mistake and judgment
very long song by thirteen versus very dirty kind of late, mid period, Dylan Peace from Burma
the desire album, which is one of my favorites.
In quite a story,
but not Dylan's, on most people now so I went into a dirty thirteen
Earth Dylan's on that
most people don't know
three quarters of the way through the show, not not great choice in terms
my ability to get through it without going like wow this going on for a while, sorry diminished.
Maggie through this could muster up.
the small, about a confidence I had for the evening and apply it
to getting through ISIS without make
funny comments and how long it was
such a great song mad that I ruined it. Then after ISIS, I did some car
but then we came back with a broke down palace. It was there
before then Shoutings birthday, which was last Friday. I think
One of the reasons I did the show was for Lynn. She would have liked it added
Broke down pilot palace- and I cried during rehearsal- didn't cry
the night of the show. By did like sorted,
of our time remembering the words and courts I had to keep looking at abiding was defence mechanism against not
crying during it that we got it
close to show that we came back.
we did Robin and tumbling muddy waters on which I believe in some weird way, was necessary to know how to play. Your own is necessary to own that song, booze guy, so you got do your version of ignores sort, sounded, beat far dish
which Vienna pointed out seventy eyes.
We can went into a bee part direction, which I was a great
not only do I understand muddy waters, but finally,
You stand before you right. That's what it sounds like that's where we ended up as private, proud of it proud of the evening. It all went well one good.
Four conductor, Brunner semi, always goddamn chocolate and they're, making
I'll go now, and it's so fucking good in this isn't a paid plug it. Just I just want to say that
It's amazing and go fuck yourself in fact fuck the chocolate bars I have like forty of them. What am I
you with that. I'm just gonna eat em and get doughy and weird it's gonna. We d, pasta, fuckin me
to shovel the coals into the shame engine. Will you I got to find the funny? That's a quotable. What's put that on my gravestone when I die a fucking, a clogged heart from pasta and Chaka
shovel calls into the shame engine. I gotta find the funny zau. They said I like it. I like it
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when you and role in interactive monitoring again, that's ass. I am
p s I as a if Ye Dotcom, Swash, W E, f yeah, listen, Zoe
Mister Jones is here heard your movie? How it ends is available to buy or rent on digital platforms. It's got Helen Hunt, Fred Armament.
Olivia Wild Nick crawled
I believe Whitney Cummings Charlie Day Paul, Sheer Bradley Whitford and a bunch of other
people? You know, unlike not
including me. While I did
not on her with wider leaving ever on. This is me talking to Joey Lister, John.
enjoy. So how often you go to dermatologist.
every six months
in two years since I've been mark
I had a base or sell on my face.
Gotta go on go on Wednesday, but it didn't feel like that long ago, covered in whatever time get got weird. I've always been I'm
I'm a super hypochondriac, but I also don't go to that
after enough, it's adults enough-
I go every year, the doktor- I don't know you every year, public there.
Like they were like two years. There is a tool
You're saying I didn't go the dentist. That's not! Ok! My dentist retired bottlenecks
to do about that. Either we gotta get a different. I know
yeah I mean how do you?
The idea of trying to find a dentist is, is in I've money
but the idea of working for one that's good. I never think I get the Goodwin ever hear of anything now. Do you
no, in fact I was wondering if I was cursed the other day we might like to a terrible drive
terrible luck in the service industry in general or was that were brought that on
This is a really like boogie ass can be greater. Funding is a pathetic display. Time frame were await nowhere,
Yeah well, bad works. Had it mattered,
at a really bad massage-
really gonna start loving. You dont know with the massages. Its end
Never now and- and I just feel like- I always yeah- I just always strike out with massages- are in general, with massages and specifically, and then also
can you get massages
people tell me like you, should do a regularly again, I'm not bragging, but
could afford to have a massage even once a month, but the idea,
Just like the touching you dont like that?
it's ok, nine I dont minded, I trust a massage person, and I don't I don't even care of male female does matter right by you know you.
Better. Do something will ya?
That's the whole point I was like in. I had been travelling a lot for where were we
then I'd just shot this other movie
Andrea inside just like my body was like. I just needed some sort of body too much plain
inaction too much plain action and then my therapist said that I
it had to get up.
massage it, while the polarity massage that integrates your masculine unfeminine energy way home from you, what is it
they're, both polarity Mozilla, where they give
they figure out the angles while so so is everything? Is Europe?
haven't gotten one yet but I'll report back. Are you ready for that, though? It sounds, like you know, they're going into great Tommy, I'm looking for integration here,
lifelong search so way what movies issued Montreal? Why work go out?
no, I don't know I'm not enough. Really you I'd like to work more.
I shot I shot out
asters new movie, you know he directed Midsummer an hereditary and he so this was just acting, which was really nice via big part. Now did you make choices?
I did make choices. Yeah there's knows
small parts. Only.
Tourism, never diameters. This act here
and was it a funny movie.
He described it as a four hour nightmare comedy, which I
it's very while I bet you like so many of you were was in his right now, I'm in four hours its. I think it's so brilliant. I think he's so brilliant and I am just like yeah. I was so hype to be part of it.
it's weird. Yes, ok, yeah! It's like weird yeah. I've got word: did you grow up weird
yeah, my my I grew up in Brooklyn before it was.
Brooklyn yeah in the eighties, like back when it was like reasonably priced, yeah,
and my parents to their own home brow and does not like yeah. My parents are both visual artists and day just they would like.
into the cool neighborhoods before they were cool, but they could never afford to buy anything. So we never got the up upside of that sort
then even do the kind of like were here amongst the ruins. Now
making a life, but we own the black. Now, oh god, no no
My dad is still never owned,
home and my mom only bought her first homelike in her fifty,
Are they together now
They went away when I was nine early, yeah ha the idea.
That's right! Better I've decided my parents thinks it will
I mean probably not for the kid in the sense that you know it's jarring, but, like my parents put up when there, when I like thirty five, and am I ve while the whole thing was a lie,
You know you know it's
you can handle. It is an adult but you're, just sort of like Helen
was whatever I guess. You know, that's crazy,
Did they appear happy to you now their terrible?
individually and together there are worried that other just selfish people, that's what happens. You realize your parents, Roy wow,
people with problems. I grew up with the idea. I now that that
like revelation that your parents are, human beings is just so devastating the worst one didn't want it to happen. For you recent early hurl prickly. Firstly, there is very little pretence:
performance of like now
I'll say why? Because was there whether artists and look? What was the mediums? My mom,
The video artists me like NOM doom, Pake Kind, ass. She stuck in tv. She done stack those tvs,
Hers is like a little more narrative, then he's like superficial. Perhaps a and installation of your mother's work would have a podium with just an old black and white TV set on it running what now
No, she doesn't do didn't do installations. Hers is she's. She you're hurt
This is where leg, ah
any screens, one scream
one screen like she did a lot around like patriotism and propaganda, she's Canadians issues like very interested in Canadian yeah, you dual citizen, I am dammit,
get out now just get out for
and I know I don't think it's time. If you do, you think it's now,
so you ve put time it s. I know that I guess how do we know women when we're,
we're not saying we can work with Hitler. How do we know what, when we come to an end,
junction idea. Well, it got it got really scary. Yet now it feels less scary, but but still
It's not me. I was scary, but something
not holding now
Andrews are always endanger, always always any. You know you can't deal and the thing is
does the more you say it. The more we become annoying Jews to the people, they don't I'll yeah,
my god, I don't. You know you hear that many of us there's really in the big picture, not that many Jews. It's funny because, like
I feel that, although the stereotypes that use run high would I
I am usually the only Jew.
in a cast their true. I might add,
They're talking about the actors when they're saying the juice run, Hollywood, that's true, but yeah
what is more, but it is still in a sort of like odd you know, like yeah
it s just an interesting thing like they're there. I guess maybe up there's the heard there are like a dearth of due to its actor. There used to be valued user. I think they were more popular in the seventies arrived this theory that once
antidepressants became accepted and culturally kind of ok yeah.
the whole neurotic do still kept, can wore out oh she's, so weird
theory, but there were whereas interests narrower. Why mean that idea? I've thought about it. Who is really
based on comedians,
because in the seventies there are all Jews, this black black and, if you like, but there is a wider Jews complaining about this or that
and then something happened in the eighties like it got too. I think you really act yakking
to the point where people are like you know you can. You can probably fix this year,
whatever you're going up there in Korea proudly stopped?
scratching about here, because I feel that when I watch Richard Louis, unlike still right here when I was,
any hilarious by and I know it's an act to a degree though he does. He is in the moment, but is sort of like nothing's resolve China result,
but have you resolved anything? A few things you have I entirely
spin out over more imaginative bang is like it's. Never it's never result as just an endless sort of cycle of panic, but yeah, but I'm getting older dread. No big,
there I mean I find that, like I'm, not a depressive, do you not know? Oh you. You have course come on for real yeah. That's a priority
No, it doesn't surprise me. I just I question a question: how you think it's like
two easier, like a humble brag, yeah.
Listen to that you lately!
they ve traveled, so interested by the desire to work for using the polarity way, and I think the polarity one's going to fix it. Everything yeah, yeah yeah, knock the dread biologists, gender and walk out of their protestant
of that you right out of India. There you go worked it out, cried a little of it, not even hungry
because I found I find the dread anxiety right, yeah panic,
when taken to its logical highest pitch here just becomes something like
freshen you there's an overwhelming that happened. Yes and then you get shot down right so, but
I think that's anxiety on nothing. Those depression
I've, I've been misdiagnosed. What
well, I think I have ever come like a combo platter of like anxiety over one.
There is also despair and despair. Nor more despair can come from anxiety because you're like
let's all wrong the abbot, despair
It is reasonable, most
until his earnest world without despair. Yourselves. I give you right,
Our religious right.
or it or spiritual, which has its own problems. But I think disparaged is rational.
and you just have to manage it- yes
If you can like, I
struggled in quarantine, as so many people did, but like climbing, climbing out of the mock spare.
Well yeah, but it was like, but the Ets at a certain point where you made a movie during it yet which I
I thought was a good move? Yes, I'm talking about, then I wonder tat I was the ivy having I would it be like who is a hand up here, so you grew up with
this waking up with them with the video with the editing? Yes, editing, yeah, she had just her now rather know. Well, I have two half sisters who are in Canada, but I
was raised, like an only child in New York,
so they're my dad's previous marriage? Oh he's, Canadian, too
no, but he now skin,
He is he left. He left the states because he was in the army and then he
I called to Vietnam and he went to Canada Draft Roger.
No, he was a deserted because he was in the around better disorder
so he actually had a crazy.
Here's a link, it saved his life, yes, but
he once been artist, and so he like asked to be stationed in New York. He thought that he could be an artist wall in the military more widely from California.
and then he
his job was to go like knock on people's doors and tell them that their
Her husbands or
others are, sons were dead, so his
it was a bright brutal.
it's a lesion here and so
I mean to save his life, but he had had a pretty traumatic
experience in the army. Religious he's sitting estate is sitting at an army building or base in the city, and there
works or like here's the list, and
today and then he'd have to go all over New York, knocking on the doors and he got punch
in the face got guns drawn on em. He got, I mean what you really want to accept it yeah yeah,
and he's an orphan. So I mean talk about like an orphan yeah like the boat his both his parents died by the time he was fourteen, so like bent
also be delivering that news to people, it's just a wild sort of in White ACT
grief, so it wasn't combat he was running from it was
daily on Swat of death announced,
well. No. He ran from the combat cause any got called to go to Vietnam.
How long did he
stay in Canada. He stay
therefore he came back then
You're like seventy seven. Seventy eight. So
What is your mom come in the picture?
They met Vancouver in Brunei, Syria gap and she came into the picture. I imagine he had the other two kids yeah, so he had
and then she moved to New York and he moved with her.
Is he still underground and shall we do after that? His
no he's not underground deepen, as you been vindicated her what's the word we have proved well so Carter, part and all the draft agenda, but he didn't pardon deserters and my mom likes to believe that it was her. She wrote a letter and was like a pardon.
The people who didn't even service pardon the people served, and then he did. I dont think was my mom's letter that did it, but we can ensure Lord. I was the other owed in and peace that is, it is,
captured on a video peace. No, she never made a story about his hero to scream play about it that I think, are option in the seventies, but then nothing ever came of. It sounds like a good seventy movie here towards more like you just the walks around.
People their family members are dead. He and then he he just the end is just him. You know I'm getting off the plane, Canada, Japan and that's it the right to
They did so ready to hear balance that I have been a studio movie simulator.
So then they madmen, so he don't he's like a conceptual photographer
so I did a lot of like photo grams in shit. You know what that is. Maybe
like what like projecting light through lenses, aunt photographic paper
rather than like snap and shoot projecting right. I get it so wake
but is it abstract yeah? Ok, it's not like I get. It sets out its
just sort of an extension of white when you kind of like put a calm and
suppliers and end from other thing. Yes, a piece of photographs paper and then you exposed for a second. Then you develop and you look a man. Re ignite act sets different than that,
we are somewhat similar technique, Leah, color,
You some color paper. He also need a lot of like collage work and then him my mom collaborated on
really cool stuff in the seventies to abandon me their relationship and it
because of an argument over
our first photographs
now all that when I'm before you even born so now choose its stories you here, which which part the
their collaboration, the yoke of their yeah, though this will cause you were you born you're born later. I knew I hear other stories now and, of course,
always been like very interested in their dissolution. My dad move down the block and I did a crazy thing when they split up, which was an outbreak worried about her moved in the street for well. I decided to spend every other night with him, which is like a really, but you just walked down there
I did, but it was like yeah, it was to stir a strange, is worth yeah. Did he appreciates
I'm not sure I think I
it was just like I sort of went into like parent mode like I was worried about him. Why
The aim of this sort of like is this word, starts envy the obsession with the co dependency business, one hundred percent yeah. You got it
she do like Asian most your work about that. That's right,
investigation where they dependency
so boundaries now
hard hard now
now very bad at those button they weren't alcoholics no, but they were just
we are profoundly selfish. People were no, I mean they're what their wonderful people I mean, I believe, like we're all add ex. Even if it's not whatever it is, you know no they're they're great. I just Stumm beyond just fucked up, you know like we all our parents fuck up their kittens, there's just no way not to it is. I think why have always will
I've always had a hard time rub my head around having kids gotta have a fifty seven year out and I'd never never think about it
yeah? It's like. I just don't know how you don't fuck em up with that, but there is no time for children now how God now I mean
I've never been like
the Berlin to marriage were
You did it. I did
We we recently separated, but I did get married.
Match Weiss though I'm ok, I factor two wives. No children that take us out is that takes a certain type of ass. All the I think, my second wife
sensation, forgery, ethic, might mice, my second life
put it like this. You think I'm bringing children into this.
but they wanted here's. Your wives wanted. I think the first one we want to do, but I was to sort of like idea, I'm too self
in panicky in and prone to anger, attire Theo S. Now I didn't I never I just didn't. Do it now, fine with it yeah, I'm sorry gets every. Thank you.
No good. We use every spent, I mean,
like a seventeen year relationships- oh my god, something to celebrate like we did that that's cool huh, that's like just though the endeavours, the only person
you re all right. We we did, we sort of went. We went in and out of open of an oven, open relationship,
I have so much indigestion.
How can someone with anxiety and no boundaries begin to think like this good idea, once she's gonna fuck other people? Well, my so my mom's friends who has like raised around our Polly amorous as ours,
raised around. A lot of this ideology are like that like non monogamy is something tat like contend with. You know it's not.
thing to say
a fat but
then yeah, I think in practice it is rarely five. You engage you like you know, you're jealous possessive. Oh it's
its constantly engaged yeah.
It's a muscle that it I'm just saying that something about polymers is right. I dont know if those people
are well grounded or absolutely totally on tethered and
like I don't know like what I don't
I understand relationship and that great at him right,
But the idea that, like us, how would you do this afternoon? I was with Joe yeah what
oh right, the guy you fuck on Thursday how's that how do you just
likewise but wheaten you? I dont, understand that I will say that
it comes back to integration
the integration of when your partner comes back from a fucking somebody else into the home. Is that it? That is that's a tough,
I always had a hard time with it. You know
it never got easier. I don't think that's unusual. I maybe we're just maybe amount advanced enough about things in advancing. I think it is like up. I don't! I think it's
hard to shift the programming even for like her.
hard core veteran holly amorous. You know, like I think, there's
There is it's it's impossible not to be jealous or possess it. I don't think you I don't. I've ever met with the long term that is and what that looks like you know to mean- and I go out at times like at, but I don't want it.
If I you know, if I start commenting on this
indeed any emails, you can come after you,
that'll care for bunches. Swingers come after me
and now under setting out your knee, she might answer depriving get mad. I call them swingers at some sort of like dated terror. It is date of your horse. I know well, but I believe we are putting the Newt this new generation who I'm kind of obsessed with the fluid people
as who are also there also like I mean there
just as anxious as we are may be more so because they were raised with like phones and Instagram, and we don't ask member pan out for those people. You know where
fortunate near younger than me that you ve got you,
at least your yeah you're kind of rooted in current some sort of strange
our cystic seventies artistic ideology. Ah, you now, as european just having these passive pair
and through our upper
middle class with jobs, you don't understand the gist of what you be brought up by the internet right,
you know. I don't know way. That goes.
I don't either I mean yeah instruments like
It's amazing and its terrible. These rooms, island, I don't have a facebook page twit
I just I go in and out with. Sometimes I guess but its it hurts me all the time, Instagram City most easy, one yeah,
I'll sit and do a fag into our live. Instagram me I don't give a fuck and that
helps you just like release shit. I don't know what you're doing I got into the habit of it during the pandemic to engage with people yet because my girlfriend died. I was alone and I was trying to figure out
What do I do with that, and how do I
Am I going to do? Carry him or the weird thing about that time was I I never thought I need
never miss stand up?
and if that you understand, is that the thought I had was like. Maybe I'm
a better you're, not
the only to lean on those. Strangely out as soon as we will start Duenna gonna fuck game on, I guess cause a farmer I kind of,
but also how would I do on petitions that healthy, I'm terrible idea. I judged myself against people all the time and in ambient at other to Aung San Suu Kyi, yet courtier grant you if course we're fucked. Here
I won't they have you bet you do. We, though the army, and sometimes you the only way I can wrap or you don't, though,
you know I mean I don't. I don't think so you I see who your friends are gonna, be here.
We all know what's going on with what an old man and I will say like the independently with anything because, like the break
Ups that I witnessed happening, which is like always happens, but when, when like couples break up, we ve been,
double dating with or who you at least like look at
as far as like they ve got it all figured out, it's always its
good it's a good lesson. They nobody had to figure it out if you
look at what they have and who likes them and be like if it would comics like. If I, if I judge myself again some more successful comic, I look at their fans like I can walk down the hall in the comedy store ban. You know I love bill. Burr he's a friend of mine were different in the way we approach it.
and he was doing the main room shows and like luggage, Alzheimer's Disease huge, and I I have my audience and I define and make a living, but there's
These guys are really here is Bilbil more famous than you.
yeah yeah? I mean he sells more tickets, so so far more famous it it's I'll, try my word or more famous than him. If that makes any difference, lies appreciate yeah yeah
so I walked down the hall and I work in the main room where he's running his hour and I just look at the front row stage right and I see a dude there. No, my onawandah dude. I got nothing for that. Yet got nothing for them
and like that would not to talk to him if we could be polite in May
a sort of like you know. You are your mind yet, but that's a second
Are you and that's the depth of the connection? Yet here
so? That item of that's helpful but committed or who you are?
of an ray you want very lie right,
I mean yeah.
I can show you forgot, draining fail bird life, but there's some others that are not investing in ideas in bills, IKEA he's because having some revelations by out of its very good sir, when do you start doing things,
Well, I went and why you I graduated film acting, which is where I met my my ex husband, who I will just say we are still best friends and and collaboration, and we may use move. You remember how it ends together in his and I ve made numerous easily get made a number movie. Then that was really. My start was that we started making movies together cabin where you sure, no
after all after and why you we entered into an open relationship right away, two years into our relationship, we were young, you know we measure, we were like twenty of where you and so on.
our first film was about our open relationship, is called breaking upwards andor. We basically play
versions of ourselves telling
and then that like opened a lot of doors for us and then we went on to make like a number of other features together they did the band one, while the bat
Darrell, and I made three features
but a future together and then I went on to his name for the people. Darrell wine dry.
To extraordinary microbial Oliver's then coordinates by you. Ok
I went on to direct my first teacher cause. He directed all those films we that CO wrote them in cobia, stamina, right in them here and so bandaid wasn't my direct toil Debray, which was with
yeah dad Holly, I'm right arm a sin, and that was my like coming out party mandate as a director and it was written and I hired a crew made up of entirely women, which was also really cool and fun, and that's the right thing to do
yeah. I was amazing, cause it. It
It was an amazing social experiment and artistic experiments have them added to do. How was it received it? What is it? What did it bring to you? It
received very well it prepared at Sundance in competition, which was really exciting. I got like that was a bucket list thing to play. The echoes
Sunday Y, all,
and then yeah it opened it opened a lot of doors. So then I went on to direct my second feature, which was a reminder of the craft
which is that ninety I saw that like a year, ingenuity why? Why that
they came to me and asked by one to pitch on it and dumb, you know it's like them.
missed horror, basically band
did want a periodic, as it was like a sir. A pretty seminal like colt film in my
coming of age or Algeria, so
then I pitch, I got the gig and I wrote it and directed it and when made that it was you know of that too
not as why. What do you think I am wrong.
I think bandit I made entirely independently,
and- and that was a studio picture which I think is always just a more difficult process.
Think there's a lot of crooks in the kitchen and an eye, and I think
because I was like servicing.
legacy like that of the craft, which I like hat in other alot of there is a lot of it so funny because, like you know in the world of directors wanting to yes sort of carrying the,
burden of honouring a legacy of that.
Once color, you know you never win yeah, but
you bet it's, I usually it's because I gonna wanna you'll make
something like the other
such a masterpiece right in, but
for the craft. I mean that
The thing there was room is really going to judge you right
unless horrifying element. It has risen right, let's worsted volunteers in their yeah out there for black did come after you know you know,
I think gum listen, there's might this as a screenwriter
to crack note. That thousand thousand only break that. That's what I call myself as a screenwriter. I feel like the third act is just it's so fuckin
to get right and I think that that's why
The movie struggled with,
its third act in an I'm incredibly proud of it. Like I, I said
I think it's a really special movie but yeah
like I don't know any direct through them like happy with
entirely happy with their found cause, it's always just being ripped from you in the ETA. You know like when this one was particularly wild.
I was told it was coming out like a month before it. It came outside to finish it really fucking quickly because they wanted to,
look out for Halloween during the pandemic, but though
what's good is like something like that. I would imagine like doesnt, really stick to you
yeah and then I think was helpful that I went and made. I think I think like it was
great cause. I got to make like a studio movie and as a woman, that's also like not a thing that happened. He will make more here so that we will do anything. I also yeah. Do you
blank, is a Dino Lynnwood idea of her experience with studio movies with her like not never doing that again wrangle some money together and shoot this out in two months or yeah,
had surgical career and I'm so sorry
Last year I never met her, but I was watching
from afar and my mom is actually friends with Tanya, her sister costume,
Psycho in Brooklyn, really rather superfine, oh, but
yeah means. I don't know it's
it's a golden handcuffs. You know lagging, I don't put it.
universe that I dont want to make a big movie cause? I couldn't get our money and resources yeah in your minds will throw you had the ring and soothing port of tat, but I, like I, mean how it ends was like a really. I made that right after the craft- and I was a really nice like reset cause that was super guerrilla craft just came out yet last year earn twenty one.
And how it is, but like I just want to make, make sure everyone knows that you act a lot here and,
like you know, he had some pre harrowing roles.
Two seasons of Whitney
I say that with our armies now do have witnessed she's. I actually do she's amazing and I had been
even though I was likes me,
still young, I had been.
like auditioning for so long and couldn't fucking catch a break in the tv world, and she gave me that,
Bacon, I'm so grateful to her like I bought my first
just because a Whitney, so that's where do where was at its very still live bout with
it was really funny. I went in
auditioned for her,
I sat down and said why you famous- and I was like-
not a lot to answer that question and then she really you know she Fatima takes people fighting for you sure, as industry here to get shit, and you know before
that was Glaser Glaze, as I was already an as really find you, ok yeah. It has a real caught falling steadily still yeah. I will.
the two Johns John Benjamin John Glazier, so funny
They sell funding and so specific again
set in their ways, yes faster than we have thing
I feel bad talking should about the craft legacy because it is, you know it is a thing visit thing. You didn't, though I know
oh, but I did. I did kind well, you haven't seen
I mean I think it's like such
The film after reading upwards was a Fox searchlight movie that dare I made together. That was
critically like not well reviewed, starring, Gregor Wig and dumb, which will mazurkas called Lola verses, and it's funny
like we ve had this discussion of like when people ask about it. My first
stinks to go yeah like don't watch it. You know, even though right.
The I'm proud of it in many ways, but there's like the self protective mechanism that comes into go like you're, gonna, look at the rotten tomato sore and then you're going to judge me right, which also like fuck rotten tomatoes. But you know it's weird about me. I don't even every look at it, you don't know, I don't know what the fuck people
working. I I don't know where people find the time I don't.
Like I'd like that,
is I'll. Come I dont check anything if somebody, I respect, says, maybe watches my guide, a check it out, or this looks interesting
go right. This is the problem. Is that now
rotten tomato scores on the Itunes when you press so
twenty pull it up, even if you're not seeing it out and pay attention to well, that makes me feel better anyway. They
the crafted. I think it did well otherwise adjust that the critics you know there are problems with the third act, which is like fine threats, heard three x hard
Do it's an amazing cast its an amazing cast of
incredible young women and its? I think it's as an important story to tell so that something was easier in the seventies with her neck yeah,
Does anyone have one?
the guy. Just go on a bus once ended up
since cave it sound their eyes were scattered. There were two everything. What people want to closure
they wanted a yeah
so the new movie, with lights figure that out
the reason I like it was cause. I you know when I looked you up as I got person,
this person like what did she do my anathema,
she's, the one who knows all the call good,
I could tell them. The movie might hear she called him to theirs was so like the reason I like it is a kind of white. The conceit of it is what it is, but it's sort of like this, where it is an art film. I decided I thank you
Did you decide that yeah right, you know like bottom
I did try guru like it's, not you not eight. It's a poetry, peace thanks, yeah,
I think because, like the developing
process on the craft was like so intent
it was really nice too. Like are now open up.
I don't know the process to like allow for it to be whatever it. We are to be treated like more fluid
then poet I can be. I guess because I didn't have to be like hitting like and then the king
max happens and then merely Martin
By that I mean that's what I like about you you're so funny, because
I'm thinking like man, she really did is on a budget, and you know
I guess the only expense or stopping traffic, but it turns out there were no traffic yeah,
I was doing all they paid, for which there are the people at the end of the street cars now, but it was the middle of the valkyrie know. We had a crew of three people. There was nobody stop stop.
This is your cars around yeah. I mean
who would hold for like us
Car Helen Hunt about oh yeah, yeah she's, the best where she is
You know it was amazing. I mean that was like part of, I think our intention and making it was a sort of like serves a time. Capsule.
for this totally surreal moment,
on the streets of outlay that it looks. It was so apocalyptic Pino Rear,
inherently that we are like with get out there and shoot it and also I fell
to be like one. Those movies were like it's like the journey of it like you did. You know that that every theirs
someone else's use an asteroid hanging in the sky. Really
exactly like your asteroid. We mean in a movie
But not a series really. He up
Joseph Gordon live it and Mr Kerr,
That is a good idea.
But it's not it's his it's a manifestation of his anxiety, but it looks like these same effect really like the exact so putting a while and then like Atta Mackay, his new movie. I think
Also. I know it's an ashtray, but something's gonna hit the earth. I guess we all it's funny. It's like.
We made breaking upward and then like caveat Katy asphalt and made a movie about an open relations there, a bunch of like openly gyp moving ahead of time. I feel like it's funny like there's something that happens in the outer now either
earlier desired. Collective active unconscious cottage s, yeah, it's annoying yeah! I dont know why that is. It makes you wonder about things you know me. Let's go incident was going on our part of one mind. I'd be, I should say the name of the movie. How it ends is what we're talking about currently on the pod cast souls, but but
each point like how did you when you say
So the ideas like you had a time that
what was going to everyone knew it, and this was the day of air
I mean I think the intention was like I was
Having we're both of easy as the world was trying to process what the fuck is going on with the pandemic and with quarantine and being like trapped, but it was this, like, I think,
dichotomy of being
apocalyptic, like nightmare, but also just like being its weapons and watching Netflix every day was so like. Why,
you know right, and so I like the idea we haven't seen like an apocalyptic comedy that wasn't like may ham. Violence goes on the serfs Abdel yeah, but we are so good Samaritan over what is it called
with the sale and yeah, but it's like its manners out on those rights, maize, and so this was like well, what would like there's a certain
point: I mean we're sort of stolen it where we were dislike resigned to,
this new, nor more more in also it's interesting how this culture comforts itself here now
just sort of Viking of bread.
and yet I watching thing
or bail on asylum just like. Why? Just who have that, like the as that started to wear off like everybody, was sort of excited its Eric. What we're gonna do things during their like three
and send that I give me had he had one fucking Nokia, children, middle bread is going to stop this from here I was so grateful not have children and the pandemic. Oh my god, journey of those people. I know
but so yes, so you too, you thought that the disconnect was interesting, yeah
and so like. What would it look like if, like we had all been preparing for the end of the world, which we kind of we're doing so that on the
ass day and not the end of the world. Being on the last day that people were resigned
Here too it s, sort of it was just a more introspective self reflective energy. And what was that
look like an end, so we started to explore that and also we were trying to shoot
everything outdoors and six feet apart, so it worked. Assertive haven't like
one right hawk journey right with you're, more the device of your younger, so yeah, what's echoes now
Ellie spanning various she's amazing she'd, also the star of the craft ocean.
Isn't that nice DNS hearing some mouse, remarries town, yes, she's, yeah, she's great,
Yeah! That's right! Yeah! She goes by.
right away somewhere job
vets but she's at the heart of the whole story and she's amazing she's. We
work on the crap together like I fell in love with her, and then I would like to make a weird little monsieur. That's right there, like you know. How does that you know how does that continue to work? Like that's what I think
but establishes it as a man
detention on something right, yeah as an
film, is that you know I'd this is this. Is her younger self and that's ok, yeah we're just gonna
We're walk with envy ass overlapping two hours. Yet that's the log line,
it's gonna be
the governor game, you yeah what
also because, like I mean
was doing a lot of inner child where, with my therapist knew, were yes,
and my mom had sent me
look like it's like figures.
Talk to your inner child, because
since the inner
because the inner toilets, like so anxious Albright right, like Ivy League Widows, Joseph the overwhelm that we feel is like actually Archer and her child
like. How do we speak to that person unlike reap here and now I get Niagara I've. I've applied some its heart.
It's so hard. Do you read the fantasy bond now what's to have read it? I don't know it just
changed my mind about the? Why I am like. I am
Michael lately what I realized about the child, the outside of the fantasy wrong shocks, pointy later a very I've just I can't sullen
it is worth reminding. But it's like I've explained sponsor now
I doktor Firestone Robert fires to know
no, this book- and I think it's like one of these rosetta stones and really, whatever of contextual, icing, a certain type
figure meant after here.
Like you, I used to be this way about the denial of death, the earnest Becker book about transference. Never at that, we
but I do I just get locked on these things
reconfigure how I see some yak. As things are just there just
they're just re, may have you, I said yeah tell all of it
what's happening to me, those knowing like my country,
if you like, what about the good times, man and I looked back and might not too many hours,
any you know. Why would the x explain why, like if you feel
uncomfortable or, socially awkward or, or you know stressed, like her,
always any party of your life can be anything other than panic and embarrassment so like
this sort of sites any time they had a good thing happened, yeah the path,
and leading up to a year, that the only the good time equates to a guy got through it. One-
percent right, I now
do that so much lately, where I'm like? I'm just wait.
for the thing to be over in writing as a main am excited about right, because
this caused me so much anxiety. I try to go like no living the thing right or even end
victory. Any small victory celebrate it, because if you sell
read it, then it all gets taken right right, I'm all right! That's great!
now we did it. He asked
is what it is. Yes
Yeah. That was very disturbing me that, like all the memories are traumatic because you didn't feel good about yourself, I know
what we do. We're not
a person anymore. There is self acceptance. Now we have to achieve things here. We have somehow
spider, anxiety, weirdness, have our ambitions have compelled us
to accomplish things in their think. We want to do so
I mean I think it is possible to sort of
enjoy them. I think it's possible to enjoy the process. I dont know
oh I'm trying I'm trying
it's just that there's so much anxiety, but it's likely out and not having anxiety in this world is an impossibility. So,
but like all we got is this if, in as things become more tribal and more
sort of like insulated. Everyone's got their own little world
you might as well enjoy that because it doesn't matter to the rest of it yeah. That's. Why
saying I just one be partying right because like, but what does it look
My therapist says that I need us. I need to embrace play. There's that's that
Then there is one person shall embracing in raising minutes. Ted talk. Oh that's! So good.
And it's just get me me like doing drugs on what are you gonna? Have a guy she's my gorgon gerardi boilers. Michael, is a good idea. The audience gets my joy character to talk about a man here, there's an old story about a guy, a better road comic. Sometimes it's attributed to John Foxes, dead or Teddy Bourgeois on whose
I've. Where he's on stage some club and
he'd been DUMBO wake. Who knows how much
there is now
she started bleeding in the middle of a sat, need really notice it,
but the audiences and roused me he just without missing
he looked at the eyes. I work done any one party anymore
so the best
so yeah, nothing. We may not my twenty twenty one
Eric through line beginner, not cocaine. Just what does anyone burning very exact, no like last
I went to New York and there,
Are these like outdoor masked?
dance parties on the street. You dance party person, yes, love to dance and you do it yeah. So that's nice! So nice
that someone the things you like that just getting through it. No but
it was like me being like? Oh, this is living. I brought my mom, whose incredible you, I guess you do sounds as if you did the key get taken away.
generation, you don't like our cities,
they're carry the interviewed him recently and I really dug in I get it. I get it yeah. I understand why
This is, I missed it.
I will not a matter of minutes that was like Prime
like I, was at an why you right from two thousand two thousand for right so was like
yea as citizens and rapture, all those bans- Eureka S book by who, as you know, the answer you I love that book, I was so obsessed with the erika- has done that book like it's like, not my time at all rien. That book is sort of like what was I was around. How did I miss all of this is when you are in York, then what year two thousand as a four year
oh no. I just left right left my miss it, but-
mean I was still I do, but I was so locked into comedy right. I moved out here in two thousand to after nine eleven with a woman and woman. Does she didn't she? Freedom
out and how to get out
I was here in two thousand and interesting. She was
downtown and got out a train. The reigning ash. Here I was sleeping.
got up, and I looked at opened up my AOL Homepage to one tower and am I did not a proposed what and then I was on my roof and the story of the much in it
yes so being in New York? For that, I feel
more than the coming out of a pandemic. There things anxiety that weird sort of de destabilized environment yeah, although
It's like New York, obviously is so such an amazing place in terms of the coming out of things like that, where I I felt like
I feel like even now, New York, not postmen damage, but wherever we are now in right is like it alive.
I have to go back. I would I'm dying to go because I'm working on a thing with my friend SAM website and
and were writing- and but I just want an excuse- go back I'm doing than your comedy festival. If this melanoma under my name, doesn't it
Where is the top anything away? My ass tat? Nothing! That's
I think we need to use because get older. Sometimes that's that's life. You got the heads taken pieces,
What is its November o nice? Do I'm going?
dial tones house fur on Thanksgiving. If you want a couple, really that's six
my mother, trying to get me to Florida. Oh no, don't go there.
but how why you got worse, petty upon live, well,
she's. I think, like my central park,
she was an ariosto movie and we got really closeness
a lot of time and now I just want to spend every waking moment with area, so you dad Sudan's at the masked. What was it we're yeah at that where it was
it was this street in in Fort Green, that they shut down and it started with them, like you know,
people's heard, banging pots fur essential workers at a certain time every night and they started turning their speakers out, and then it became this like Dance party s
the night, so every night, from five to seven out, go that's good. It was so far
that's nice and early curfew in, I get it at your system here
and I was there- I brought my mom and she wept because it was it was like. Oh my god, you know yet
like be around people than they would play like Emily K speeches. At the end, it was cool with a b yeah there be like bees
behind yeah it followed,
in New York of your that. I wasn't therefore
were that I've always like, of course, been nostalgic for the three year New York's amazing, with that with community said yes and the community in the way people coexist in two year, each other. It's it's there's no place like it and always annoys me having lived there for so long when people
judge it as a survival New York's and K Height, the midwestern view of New York. It's you don't even fuckin yeah
the only time you said your friends church were up each other's ass, every fuckin dead, yeah, we're smelling,
sweat it day, yeah, you got strangers touching yeah and we love it and we're
for inviting it
that's the best city on earth? I never thought that I would live here, but here I am so K here. If you ever myself
his nice so the movie like did you learn how to
I was the writing and in terms of deciding what
each person or stop meant, I would say like half.
of the scenes, were very tightly written and then the other half were outlined.
and we were improvising off of
structured outlined so like the scene with Helen Bradley Wit, furrier and with all the machines with Kelly, those were all written, because I think that was really important right to to get that shit.
right right, but then the scenes that were more like just comedic and like fun, sort of
some Whitney was improvising,
when he was steadily rising. We went to a house and
and she found that already was that the party-
at her house house tonight
stand by that many people here, but like shit
that, like weird bubble area and she's, like others, put this on my body and rolled on the street, uncovered we're mega but she's down for whatever we got Polly to shoot
polish Iman night, so she improvised in, like the opening when she's like on the phone shameful
the polish oars and get the party, and I like you
Then you can actually get polish border Controverting Ali was sex, not approved and Polly showed up had no idea where he was and what he was doing, but was what are we doing? Ok,
What's your name,
just excited to be like close to have a like yeah. He seems like it
my guy, I've known him since you like you, know one. I was a at the comedy store but like, as you gets older,
and he hidden
he's onto himself without great yeah and its it just sort of peace,
a my son's idea moved to Vegas. It's so good. He can get food with every night and back.
ah, the women are prostitutes like all of them, so it's hard to day
just like the idea that, like your keys,
got money saved me. I kiss you did real estate in the movies and they now he's out of
at the store they bought em. Out of that any just sort of like I can get guess,
I don't like Vegas, but if you just want to eat good food every night, he probably can write anything new, showing Mare nine. I guess so I don't know, but his is a man of their for your site. I'd like it just you
something you either think is like. This is great. If you have money, this is great and you don't gamble.
Rarely shows whatever
I don't I never go there. You don't look at me like I'm, saying, promoting something now, never gather there. It makes me feel
corrosive their yeah
its corrosive weird and just like the like, when you
one those rooms at a big hotel with no vip treatment. It sort of like this,
I can even imagine doing that. Should I just just being a hotel gas is like a house. Cape
general. No! No now I love being a hotel guest, and I do I really like if these things just like I have to do anything. Yeah men
animal ever I'm goin away tomorrow, where you going SALT Lake City, why, under the element, you know why be Mormon, don't you took out,
right do comedy for the Jack Mormons. What are Jack women's ones that are over it? Oh really
is an actual term gonna. Look it up now
Jack Mormon Mormon, who is not strictly observant wow,
like a modern orthodoxy or a sympathetic, Non Mormon living among Mormons s, tricky
rhetoric on warm? And that's me you will that's everyone
lives and suddenly ready for whatever reason other than being more right, while not all sympathetic,
the camera gotta be asked only I run the place yeah, you can't walk or never bandies Mormons.
Weird, it's ok,
is to work very like I made my shows vat soundly, and that was the only play.
where there was significant refunds. Really was God help me find anything now? This isn't a facade?
I'm trying to work on our some doing club work, I'm not doing a very good at the iraqi Lady fuck around it
there's like some cities, I saw a twelve hundred taking common lady mixer. So are we done? Fiercer
I'm not. I think I feel we covered a lot. Thank you for coming over and I enjoyed the movie and I hope people like it,
Thank you is it opening a movie. Then it is a movie
but it's also on Itunes and Amazon. Get it anymore, get it anywhere.
I would ask you to make those things you do.
Did you see the Camry, how your house yet
No, but that's an option.
But in costume and
It was eighty two hundred million why? Where million dollars,
for the asteroid effect that wasn't really I act and also my fees. Ok,
they were a grey area and he really come rake some fuckin investors over the collie added for european policies. It Larry I his writers, crazy. If it is clear how you gonna pick me up
am I going to ride over with you Whitney,
My second and I'll show you talk about the bond. Ok, great
though it is your job funny, charming talented should put that first, talented, powerful works. Hard does good work charming funny there,
probably ordered reminder right now. A lot of people are feeling down and emotionally out of sorts online therapy can help better help,
not a crisis line. It's not self help its professional therapy John securely
I and you can start communicating and under forty eight hours, wherever you are in the world, better help is committed to great matches. So it's easy and free to change their if needed.
if you have a sponsored by better help on line therapy and our listeners get ten percent of their first month at better help dot com. So I study
tat, that's better. Eighty lp dot com thrash w G get matched for they better help their past and get started. There's some telecast report, japanese telecast, avoid with some echo some bouncy bouncy some trembling.
Bomer lives monkey the Fonda Cuttings is everywhere
Transcript generated on 2021-09-02.