Even when he was a kid, B.J. Novak wanted to achieve greatness. His hard work and ambition brought him to Harvard, to the Lampoon, to doing standup, to getting on The Office, to writing a massively successful children’s book, to directing movies and creating the new anthology series The Premise. But one thing remained elusive: B.J. couldn’t really understand why Marc Maron seemed to dislike him so much. It’s a mystery Marc himself wasn’t sure he could solve. Until now, in the garage, face to face.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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all right, let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the FUCK annex what's happening?
Mark Mare- and this is my podcast- welcome to it today-
September, twenty. Seventh. That is the day when
dropping this episode.
timber. Twenty seventh is also the birth date of me. Fifty
Eight years ago today, I was born fifty eight years ago.
I was born. I dont know I
lives, so many lives, and I know that I'm getting
older, but I don't always see it. I dont. I do feel it. I know something
Where am I gonna feel older? I
you feel older, I'm highly attentive to to my body, to my brain I
believe I'm aging. Ok, I think one of the reasons is because I have no children.
I don't have any horses in this race- is on how it goes. I ve
children. So that means I do not really see myself aging. In the same way, some people do
as their children get older, they can see themselves dying. I don't have that that cynical and also
see their kids growing and it's a beautiful thing. I imagine but tat
I don't get my look in the mirror. I dont see myself as age
I see I'm older, I get it. I know I look.
different than I used to buy. I don't really know until I look at pictures that that,
I'm fifty! Eight years old,
because, when I look at pictures and my good at old head, look at that,
look at that old head. Doesn't matter,
what what I wear it doesn't matter which boots, which hipster paths which western shirts right
TAT bit. There's an old head sitting. There now sure
old head. Yeah, that's what's happening.
I know I see it but
I am grateful to be alive. I'm grateful to process, I guess I know I've been a bit dark lately, perhaps a bit dry as they say
There were covey, racket
I'm plugin along you know we had a good time in Portland in Seattle. The sets coming along, but I wouldn't I'd rather a second, I
on the show today I talked to be J Novak and those of you who know the history of me and then
history. This show no
be J, and I are oh, it's really only me. I it's a one sided issue that
I've had with them
a guy over the years and its really just basic, petty resenting.
that's all it ever- was really just old comic
I'm not bitter, but I do get
Alison, I do get resentful, but you know be J. If you don't know anything about this thing that I'm talking about you,
from the office and movies like inglorious bastards in his children's books are popular
sure they knew anthology show called the premise but
my trip with him was years ago, when he arrived on the scene, he was a contemporary of my ex wife meekness. Who was all
so a comic seem around his younger than me, but TAT he was just one
those guys it was it was. It was never
It was never going to struggle,
in the way that some fish
uncle. He was always going to be employed, he was
he's going to be given opportunities and its some. It's it's
the mixture of things I guess, but in the immediate sent back then certainly he had tried to Yahoo
trade is handed stand up. He wrote some
good, jokes, and then he just me could do it every wanted. He became a writer and an actor and movies and rights movies. Now he's gotta show, if show
out of Harvard, so that was another thing to hang on and there was a lot of personal privacy
actions and I was making onto him all them bad and in on my show Marin every season I somehow wedged in a Dj Novak reference just gonna, bust and balls, just kind of taken up
can a shot, but it's there.
her out. Almost I think it's on every season. I think every season of the show I went
out of my way to her
best be J, Novak's balls and he will bring this up to him. He he kitten
the last time I saw him before this interview. I think he I for some reason he was on the patio of the comedy store with somebody I dont know. Why was I don't think he does stand it anymore, I'll ask em.
but he just said to me: I said how you do any goes. You know we're cosmical connected and I think I said yes. Yes, I did that. I did that so
It was only its one sided though, but you it's my side in, and God knows that, whatever
density I bring to the world, have alienated alot of people and I feel it
come doing it again. Actually to be honest with you
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are you stance,
I never go to the post office again
dean and I went to Seattle,
and Portland. We did a show at the Neptune nice
that shows all three I've chose
and to do I did a smaller venue and see out of an last I'm Neptune. I believe the Neptune theater was where I did. My first theatre show ever are the last time:
Seattle, I did the more I remember. Lynn came,
That's a huge waste, Andrea sort of like I don't need it from
and ticket sales. Are okay for most people, but it still a little crimped by the fact that the pen
Emma is not over but
I repeat what the came out to see us to see me. It was the first time out, like nineteen eighteen nineteen months,
excited a very interesting energy kind of a frenetic vibe, but we took some time
up there with one of their day early, because I like Seattle, I like the climate and energy.
I usually tried to do a bunch of stuff gets.
If food I was looking for a guitar. There is a lot of drama around a guitar shop that
went down on Instagram because I was like
treated like shit. I've, a guitar shop, look
just a guy going and we were excited man and I don't want to bring it up. I want to bring up the name again. It's done
I caught a cause. Such a shitstorm, mostly
pile on on the guitar shop.
I did realized something from that is that
any sort of grief
it's any sort of meat
for petty justice, not talk and big justice, I'm not talking bra.
spectrum righteousness, just any public acknowledgement of an injustice, a minor one in this case just being treated like a fucking.
Yeah douche bag and then posting it. It just attracts, hunt
grids and hundreds of grievance junkies,
that everybody wants an outlet to soon
air there grievance or to say fuck, you fuck, you fuck that and it struck me
after I went through this, that that is what's going on culturally politically in our discourse. Is that in
time of invite,
mental catastrophe and polluted
go chaos and impending fascism and a few
of powerlessness on behalf of everybody in this time of plague that everybody
looking for an outlet for their anger
Therefore, there there,
wings of powerlessness for their needs. Their me
he had to be vindicated door or their need for or for relief.
Having their grievance addressed in this is the two sides of it. There two sides of it: it's a battle of petty grievances or made
a bull shit, but this is the deal
the deal is like somehow or another
the idea of surrendering to the reality that we're all fact that the only grievance we should all have is on some level we're fucked and that there are
people in our lives and in our cities that we don't know who are much more.
Fuck than us, but on some level were all kind of responsible for the fucking and and that's it. We all-
feel powerless in the face of things out of
control. So how do we kind of me
our grievances in the middle, like there's that I don't think, there's any way to like what they use.
the call across the I'll bet. It's not this isn't about
politics anymore. There's no reaching out. People are just pissed off, feel
powerlessness and at the edge of it either
There's a crackling there.
and undoing, there's an
impending sense of chaos and doom on unaware.
of a social level, environmental level.
and a disease level. So
How do we go on thinking
he's gonna, be ok or least even honouring the patterns that we we ve grown.
These two and our lives now
I dont know if there's a way to get us all on the same grievance. It's it's really only a few and we all have them
and if we were able to come together and understand the the right
just grievances. Then you may
things could happen, maybe maybe at least
the slight corrective. But if everybody's, like no fuck, you know fuck, you fuck, you.
yeah? You show em, you show em your fuckin wrong, you're fuckin wrong. You don't know what the truth is. You don't know what the truth is where you get your information where you get in your information saw fuck it
distraction were all just being persecuted by
boy that wants to fucking, complain and argue as they fucking rape the world and turn out our
God Damn desires, to keep profits going,
that sounded a whale heavy handed back, but you
But if you notice, you know any opportunity,
to air grievances aggressively. So much more,
satisfying the people. Anger lie
ending, is more satisfying to people than acknowledging powerlessness,
surrendering to the reality that we have and trying to figure out how to
come together and fix it. That said,
I did go to another guitar store and bought a beautiful Stratocaster, which is what I was looking for it and break the bank. I got a relic. I got a nice one. It though I'd say that the purchase had it was about twenty percent, spite against the first guitar up the place
did get the guitars thunder road guitars
in Seattle who were very nice to me
and I was a york
I don't need another guitar. I am fortunate to be able to get one, I'm not a great
our player, I'm not a professional guitar player, but it is my hobby and it really is
it is really the only Harvey I have.
And now my life is a complete and everything is good. That's my birthday present to me. Thank you mark. What's up
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be J Novak, and I tried to be
The premise is new: show is dreaming now on effects on Hulu with new episode,
to every Thursday, and this is us well me trying to make
things right. So it's like a fifties, house pipe burst and understand you think they're coming a simple! It's not simple! I never thought was simple. Never now at least complex to me. I have no aptitude for understanding that no, I dont beauty
I can tell what why do you think that I think you have a sense of mechanics just looking around the room and guitars anyone away guitars nurse gear they like I am, but I
I get a lot of the guitars for free, I'm not a gear, you enough, wax!
what it sounds a little flexi, but not when you do you know what I'm doing is I'm trying to.
prove to you that I'm not a gear head, I don't,
Oh, I don't know how about. I don't know much about any of this shit. Ok, but I can. I can work a tool you're telling me you can't do it all. I can do like wrench right right, so you could put together and IKEA thing. I don't even like props is in actual fact I can't hold. This panel has terrible eating pens, terror.
then you worried about your continuity, its office. In your issue. I worked with James Baker once a he is from enacting school, where it's all about the price he would walk through since a car. I Tol put the pin down here and then I'll pick up the cause of the effort here and then off
finally touch the Doorn on bail out. I now Italians are seen in this area
the school. I think it's how you guys you ve been doing it at one time keep an interesting because I worked with Eric starts.
On my show and he really wanted to eat and he wanted in, and it was a thing he wanted to eat this out.
likely. If you put food in front of me and seen in two areas-
I cannot tell you how I owe the fort right over there.
our guy just swallowed something better.
At the chewing an aid going to. Let me talk and look around and they put a fork down put the fort down just finished. What am I doing here? Women
why'd you invite me, you gotta show our oh yeah sure, but like mark come on
what we know how you feel about me, but that was that's the old mark. I dont. Is it the old mark or kind area for the motor oil artist? I'm a fan out just listening to your interview. You just said
no I'd, you know that assure you and I'm not gonna, not listen.
But you were just saying like two: two episodes got like your first impression. You never shake a first impressions.
Well, I think why I know I have heard you. I've heard you break open,
Of course I am, I believe, what you're saying, but I also believe like Alan while I mean it, but she
can first impression and that first impression, being reasonable or correct, are two different things,
give. I can't shake something that I know I'm wrong. Yet I can live with that and I
I can just live with it, but I don't have it on my experience. I always have a first instinct and then I mentally can get away out of that, but I always revert to my first instinct. So I thank you
Maybe I'm just trying to figure it out today. That's why I'm here now to figure something out. No absolutely you're like ninety
Last time I saw you was on,
or to the communist or permanent. What you're doing
but you were meeting someone there. Ok,
and you came up to me or I came up to United Hay and you have to mean
tat. You know
We are now cosmical connected. I do feel that the hip, because of me you're, my behavior and yes, I did that. I doubt you said
at an unruly. You said: well, I'm in the mare inverse yet another in Emma Character and they mark Marin world. Here your name comes up in every season in in a derogatory way. I'm I'm you didn't want to show that did you. I did not watch the show. I was too
about the showing that did not make me want to watch this.
But it was. I thought I was good. Hearted ribbing, I didn't sound, it didn't sound was now no nationally, I think most
of what was going on in terms of my opinion of you earlier on. They talked about my producer because you do
do alive deputy ef. I don't think, there's a problem. I think
the kind of got through some of this stuff.
I'm here not enough. You're out it was twelve minutes. Yeah yeah.
ok, so Y, what bother me initially? Rather, yes, I mean no
point coming here without getting
at this yeah getting real, that's level, fun yeah. Why can be real? It, though, is an hour
My dear sir nervous, my nerve, you make me nervous Nova I'd, I mean I should be the nervous one.
you're, not nervous you I mean this is like this. I know this this angle, you you're you're, just going to turn it on me and why you know I've been worth thinking about it for a long time, but I'm not here. No one will want you tell me I like how how is it makes you feel. I'm indeed is it something that you think about like. What's Mark Marin's problem,
yeah yeah a little bit, but I also think you know you cannot
we saw conscious- and I think it yeah you go through
I went through face and then it was happy like you know what you put yourself out.
there and that's the fun of it. The young people, just don't like people, some people, like other people, sometimes there's a reason. Some them there's. No reason why I feel that way about all kinds of people, redo idea,
so you have PV problems were people for no reason, then I chalk, I do, of course, but you did enough
homework on? Listening to? My shouting, no at some point is that first impressions never go away. We recently recently to argue
is another tobacco sky lessen the lot lawyers.
think the original
I was just your basic jealousy, resentment too. You know probably like, as I think that, on some level I've I've kind of that to put it into some perspire
after watching five episodes of the premise five, I watched all the one
There were very well thank you, yeah. I bought a copy of your dad's book
the that jewish humor book there, the edited dream, but a condition. The big
the big book of jewish humor Vander? I found
did. I don't know why maybe someone sent to me, but, but that was your dad. You grew up with that book. Yeah yeah, that was an important book very important bucker in your hand, and your family yeah
and in all jewish hammers, it's almost eight thematic bar mitzvah gift here, because it,
exploring jewish kind of fund yeah. You know it's better than like the Torah
Remember Gostar watching the shown emerged respect. I got a copy of the book right here. I brought it out just because I thought I was breaking and bring it up in some sort of like glutted as you dad, but it
your dad and then I watched her. I did you write the episode, the purpose of yes, like that, that's like a basically jewish joke. I yeah I
so structurally. Here you could entire structure. You could tell that story with that tag right. You know it.
like five minutes as a joke
the game of this was how do you make it feel epic at right, sort of like the aristocrats of of a one minor,
did you know you did think that when you are doing here I mean I thought of sort of. How would you? How would you adds as much possible depth to something that simple so
Was the cause like the entire and I'll get back to my original opinion of you like, because I did contextual,
Why are you in light of my experience with you before,
my judgment. You then
and then your output? Since so
now I think, after watching the premise and unfamiliar rising myself with your children's book work and your short fixed
and their brief period and stand up some you're acting semi directives. If I may, I thought about you, I thought well what
How am I going to have to reckon with this?
with this guy he items of my feelings about him. What are they were based on? Yet we are, but what I want to know.
The premise, the premise
The premise was to deal with topical issues that,
have some juice to them, culturally,
in a way a fictional, I sort of
dromedary is sheer kind of forming a story fly into it.
and are you sort of a black mare? Does firm tat feels its feels black
not by like not remember, this is more like yeah. This is the comedy drama of of real life, NEA
I feel that black mirror influence, but the who may unhoped Charlie Burger Chart Charlie Burkhard. Does he talk in front,
reach up his own. No, but he does he does another shall where he does talk having I've now. Gentlemen, he's also hopes that in a way doesn't send me now
that show makes the idea.
Hosting and having your face on the billboard with oil
the billboard was not my call budget rod sterling. It's not what I did later. I like the idea,
It sounds like you don't I, like. The idea of I oppose
because I thought well, let's I like one rod, sermon, came on like when Hitchcock him on. I like the idea that there is some one show
something I did see. I we didn't see any of those.
as I saw this greener Scot? I was gonna want Jerry. Very brief. I didn't like it is a little flavour character of the first one prize on now. Universities are on their yeah. There's three ya: gotta watch the talking Hagen
idle back like my own Eric all I mean, maybe I'm over thinking. Our relationship is so
little funny amends like ten seconds
just like hey guys here it is, and I try to be a little funny or tease it a bit by right. It's really just to give some some character. We as well
I mean how many did you write? You rode all them. I
but a co run all them, because I thought you got some real good acting at a people. Yet somehow thanks, I mean burnt.
that's right as good as I've seen you he's amazing, but also thought that
I played the in the Butler Guy
that guy was yeah, he's amazing airplane. I don't know who I think I've seen em horizon escape from Ghana Maura negotiating agenda. They can of course is very yeah. He's great has great, so you got good at
to this end the go play Justin Bieber, for I forget his name. Lucas had these greater. Yet I was good in the girl was in wins move,
Asian and books Marty very up yet is so. Why did acting and the the first act?
so about the the white, the sort of liberal free.
Bud NASH that
The first one is just a SEC Social Justice Sex take their so you're. Thinking about this,
so how does the writing process starfleet you're right? But this is a topic. I know people like this guy, I might be kind of like this guy,
how do we sort of unpack
the bullshit. There goes the other direction for me. I think what is funny and really yeah
I think what is funny and then the only ideas that survive are the ones I owe you can actually go a little deeper there. So, what's funny to me, is what, if you
aw, you know a police brutality, racial incident on them in the DE background of
her sex tape? That was the original idea that you, like your one day, you're like ok,
the first idea was what if the first idea was what, if a guy had an affair filmed it yeah and then saw a ghost,
can it like a supernatural goes with the prophecy, couldn't show it to any right because, like he wasn't buzz
film Eddie. He was cheating area, you know best
If we had what what the hell does he do with this prophecy and then it gets out just Tugboat Dan Mince actually who helped out o Michaud Giddy Stowbody, oh yeah, yeah, Harold,
France and go to school together at Harvard yet bright.
So anyway he's the one who said well what, if it's you know it was during all of that and then that you know that thought. Oh, my
That's so red shall these characters. Who were the lawyers who near offended me I'm the guy right and then it became depth, but you know I
I you remember me from the early days I'm a one liner, guy
Basically, what are the one liners that could turn into the head depth and those are the ones who became absence.
I guess you're one minor guy, but it seems like there there's almost something like I was. I was right as a comic,
but not generally as a writer who obviously railway moved on from there? But but there are the
They are our intellectual conceits here right,
and a lot of that stuff. There is there.
An exercise in these in these episodes
I think they d, the cross examination, the second cross examination, the white liberal guy that tend to deconstruct
that personality that that was sort of an intellectual
Abby Eye and then and then there is the though, when she goes further
victorian in that one? Where sheep?
and have lays out that thing for asthma and the virtual reality. That is definitely that's. Almost a term paper
yeah I mean I like that kind of online. You guys I'm just during that. You know what I'm saying likes enable don't. I really do I like Oscar Wilde. I like people that have things
they get quoted that can be pulled out as pieces? The can stand alone that that are
I did that
our team America, that famous scene with Dixon Pussies nozzles. Like writing me, that's the legacy of team America right off the team, America's a perfect restructured movie, just it went for sure philosophical swings. No, no, no running for a half hour show that's
and of why I wanted to do these selfsame stories cause for me. It sort of like not what's the meme of it. But what are you what's the memorable part?
will also like, even in the corporate kind of presentation of that guy, I mean my dog the buck, plug that
You know that was sort of sat arising. That type of presentation add to the point where you know
it becomes convincing that you had right. Well, that think of a context.
Through which initially
whatever his analysis was despite the fact that they were uncomfortable
but plug initially they can apply it to others.
corporate products. Yes by the end of it there like. Well, maybe it, but what I o k what's a buck plug the catching the world, and I have to go out and write a presentation that convinces people like yeah. That could be the and you wrote that other so.
What we basing that on. Well, that not too
the way the episode, although it certainly you can,
you could maybe see it coming, but that's all attention of the episode I getting about damage rising tide, ya, know the presentation here: did you I do research or did you watch other presentations
it did research to the extent of ok. What are the numbers? How can you justify this right, our what it could save lie? Those are real numbers, the others, a real numbers, and so did you have to sit and how many lives could you save a fit out Colonoscopy Cameron, thereby plugin? If you could do this and that more EU pitching that around with people that we're just allow is all about her. I had a little help a little help from a couple writers without basically me yeah.
No one else is gonna write but plug like that. The Y know very well that sort of one of those ones where is is very much like blackmailer mirror
well, yeah, round and round. Yes in structure yeah yeah yeah, just like you know the title yeah
you now and then in a where we go again. How seriously can you take something and it's about an end and sort of the moral is the
Furthermore, a question picketing both of these men can't escape it. Yes, yes, but it's got a double punch. Yes,
sorted out there like an
The second punch sort of like
it, diminishes in a little bit. The first punch cause you,
my ass, correct, yeah. Both of them have these psychosis due to their trial,
my innocence her he night and one of them do so.
They're, watching this and and and seeing these parts in these in the in the shows where
you know you fit. You say there memorable in their philosophical, were they are, but there
also things at your brain works on, so I can looking at the arc of who you are and what my reaction to you initially was. What just like you,
This guy's a disappoint mother who
is it going to who has a an understanding of whatever his talent is. He knows its limitations to some degree and he knows how to apply it.
to whatever it is that he wants to accomplish, and he
to achieve those things and to me you know that
is enviable and in also makes me wonder like well, I mean I knew you as a comic briefly,
You know. I think you at the time knew enough.
Not unlike many guys. I started out with that. You didn't want to be a comic for life because it was not something you were going to be able to do and make the big money.
I did at the time. Whatever I do I commit to I mean it.
Roger? I dont think anyone thought I was gonna, be it forever and
I see what you see, look back, but it when I was in it. I was like I got an I gotta be the best ever I got it
you are already writing television. I was.
It was between that when I started, sir,
you gotta be the best ever whatever
Why do I I start like that and then yeah yeah and you re not
her face doling out. Oh no. I saw that here somebody,
I get it, but what I'm trying I'm just comparing you to make his that's all I can do is I'm like relatively. Nor did you ever hear and an end, but I've gain some empathy overtime.
Five gained anything it's it's abroad,
of my empathy. What will you ask me
did you- and I think I know the answer. I think you vacillate knowing you between in your life, I'm I'm the greatest, I'm the
or a strike? Well? No! I dont want. I don't know that I ever think like I'm,
competitive and I know
I wanted to be a great comic. I dont know that I would ever believe on the great. Oh, I never going to be the greatest right like on venom agree. I do. I do believe. I've done good work and I am somewhat under appreciate. So that might be a problem
between you and I is that you do at that.
I'm ok work and that over a piece of paper,
But I mean I don't know why that is. Do you? I think my
I think my work was good and on the path to very good. I think it was some. It was just
easily more easily saleable. But what do you think I'm a year,
I mean as a writer, you could discourage tight joke right as a persona like ok, you could plug him into whatever right now, but I guess
my my assumption, not unlike any other bitter old man who were
who does comedy cause. I ve talked about that time. Where were you
I did I want on stage after you.
talked about it on the original bike. Ask as our sort hung up with within it was probably closer to us.
Yeah cause. I watch you do you're jokes and then I want one up there and just kind of rift in out something and killed, and you
came up to me in very earnest. We said that how do you do? I could never do that
Why couldn't you do that, because I was in my my sort of thumbs.
drug dealer path of years towards empathy is towards letting go and opening up and being myself. That is what is very hard
for me? So that is why my jokes and my act,
was so tightly written, so impersonal,
It was. How do I write the funniest possible thing? How do I say it as best I can
I did find about what you I. What
I could never do, and I'd like to be able to do some day is.
say here is me, and I don't know what to make of this, and we all do you think
I haven't been able to do that.
I would like to try again and see I would not stand up in anything in anything. I think
I come out around the edge.
It's like, and I think that that a lot of credit people do like my children's book is not personal right, but it shows okay. There is some sort of
Men are rebellion. Creativity, irony that I didn't get in childhood here. This is what I wish my parents had said. The energetic had spoken. So that is very me the
it certainly not you know autobiographical you, your dad Reich his books. My dad! No, never did
Ah, I think you might have written a manuscript for one wants that he showed me he's around yeah, so
he was, he did there. He drove me here. He added
big book of the Georgiana he did he go.
He co wrote a few autobiography, yet though
Gaia Cocoa on some Nancy Reagan, summary of what,
republican. You know
Jesse, James Liberals to the irony is I didn't look. It is his
his residency aegis. He worked with Tipp O Neill. Your work with Joseph now plaza our magic Johnson
adding for me at least, do get me Magyar? How are you an email address? I twelve amazing invest here incredible there,
still live in New England. My parents, here,
So what are you why? Why is it? What were you doing? You don't how well may siblings you got two younger brothers have Ado with hunger in show business.
Yes, my mental brothers, a composer for tv really Bojean,
horsemen museum yeah did he go to Harvard,
You got job, oh Jack, Odin Horsemen here is the composer for it S. Amazing. Is you
I got Danielle Norka my show to it at the gate and they represent a. We did all right. So if you weren't, what was it you were brought up with? That would make you so compulsively kind of a competitive and focused to the point where you are still hobbled in,
being able to be comfortable as a great question. I dont know my parents never understood it. They did not put in
the pressure on me whatsoever,
I'm going all the way to calm down gold like going, I already operating in Europe a seven year old, younger yeah, like what are you
What are you first remember? Why are you remember somebody Nebraska my dad? He mentioned this a lot if a kid could win the Nobel Prize, which he thought was held,
oh, yes, I meant it. I wanted to be an inventor. I wanted to be a billion. I wanted to be all kinds of things here:
like whatever was sort of greatness yeah. I just thought that was. That was the only thing to do.
right, the unknown in you don't remember, and I am sure that I there's a flip side like
I felt I was nothing unless I did something huge. You know right, but they can always comes from that too, but I don't know what that is, but you don't did you have heroes at that age? Einstein.
we Einstein was like you ever read a kids book about you know like who is right that our diet, yet they are all those people. I incinerator sign a lot here. Did you go the math direction ever?
I see you know it's weird like
chemical thing kicks in IRAN puberty when you suddenly continue in math.
Threw down. I didn't you hear me
I was gonna mavericks via the you're good
I didn't say I was good in fifth grade when writer and that was it wasn't a prodigy then like
You know they say they say if you want to know, if someone's celebrity awesome to fill out a form like theirs
something that we can no longer do. I was just fourteen us fucking enough anymore I'll. Do
biogas- impress anybody with math. Ah, yes, that's true
so you always had this compulsion to be the best to be great, to be a famous yeah and to be
own for inventing something here. So I think that one can happen,
inventing something I don't know, I don't know I'm
The point I am trying to make sense of others like is that that children's book- it's weird about children's book, that if you write a good one which you did its forever yeah
yeah like you'll, be making money after that, and that is the purest thing I ever did. I doubt that is one thing where I I I
like how do I make a great children's, because I call my god. I know exactly what you read this three year old go home right, you don't have anything to crack. Em up knows my friends, good, your friends at it. You experimented on your friends.
Although phrases like that, nine, not you know you but yeah yeah. I would read him books and as an old boy, I know what he's gonna like a home in road it, and then
Try it out on an yeah
any didn't actually like it better than when I was into it out like I know, there's gonna work just two young quite near it tell people what the they can see that the book with no pictures and your book, where the adult soda breaks a fourth one as I welcome
but is this in there I makes the grown up say silly words and make fun of themselves ripe, roadhouse that there's no picture, there's no pictures but
the conceit. As I bet you think, this book would be boring, but look what it's gonna make me do right. It's love! It has lobbied. That's amazing
thing. That's religion in his answer. The imo.
I do now- is something you're gonna do more of I'd like to buy it.
I guess I'm I'm a little pressures about that, because I really do care
a lie wooden just do it from money. I too have to do another kids, Berea Sweden do the first kids were promoting. No, you did it because you want to try.
I too right a great
Try just honestly like it sounds so like
like a life lesson I wanted to make children laugh honestly. I thought to be the most fun thing in the world
Well, then, I made more money on at than anything else in your life.
that's the western younger. You got the lesson I'll be how the short stories, as they say,
It is fine to define you happy with those. Did you cram those like once you got a deal? Did you rightly
twelve I'd headwaters were not worry stories out, yet there sixty four stories in the book. I wrote my two hundred yards.
A tear? It was right after the office, and I was like all brain, like melted from like,
eight nine years and a writer serenity? I wanted to just
on my own every idea that I'd never expressed so early on, so you growing
with no pressure from your parents, but this
amazing amount of ambition to be great right, so why
near when you're like in your teens. What were you doing to to try to figure out
When did you know it was gonna, be right? I was anger. I was always
good at writing, and I never thought it was anything interesting ever teacher that
over there I mean I would just out of his my natural thing as it has two math, but I thought it was like,
anything interesting? What did you write that made? You know what I've rabbit. I would go far from right, a funny essay in Vienna now really in high school sure
but, like I just thought well, I'm I like being funny
Here's this assignment, but again I didn't think it was cool or anything.
And then are ya know
uncle. I was like I sat and ones like. I sat in the front the buzzing
in the back of us as the middle, the bus, most kids sit in the middle. The box and losses are built, but many others like a normal on. I was cool and uncool. You could move through the group's euro.
I could unease cockades, wouldn't take me everyone now, then you workable, I wasn't cool, but I was uncool with you weren't, just like whatever his head he's kind of funny, it's kind of awkward that also that was it. So
He was not binary as a kind of I don't. I didn't see it that
by which I mean maybe it's not, but I think that there is a middle zone as like. You can do your homework and like find a party with we'd now and then the like. That's where I was right,
But there is, I feel
that there is a middle zone of people that are almost cool and can usually hang out with the cork it once in a while,
we are sure that middle to me, as I'm sure yeah, I think so,
Why? But I would say I would characterize it more slightly without a sense of self, in kind of a desperate for friends.
Yeah. That's me. Maybe I don't know that was my middle. Was that, like I didn't care about jobs,
and there were several different factions of cool kids, and I wasn't that big druggie, but I found a crew of guys at I thought were
you know that really wanted to hang out with, and I tried very hard to do that.
succeed, yeah yeah! You did that problem
we by being funny funding for them than allowing an annoying yeah yeah. That's what idea could make the cook laughed some, yes sure yeah! Then then you're sort ideas are right and yeah yeah
and then there was a senior show at my high school? That was like that. It was a big deal
Senor you write like a parody, show air, and I remember like a genuinely equal kid coming up to me in the cafeteria
saying the word is you're the one to write the senior show
I was like this is it this is my calling me, I'm the guy, that's supposed to write funny things for the quartet there and that's what I
and ever since, and literally John Brzezinski was in that high school class with me,
pardon the shout, suddenly remembered he, of course, your members.
you guys were friendly behind us. All. Remember me: yeah we're friendly yeah
But let me literally I've been like oh writing for the more popular kids, Lamb, thousands Lucy
cook it. He was Acadia tall tall basketball player, but nice guy in high school really know dick know where their dicks
high school. There was no, everyone is lovely for. Did you go
would you go to public school yeah like a good public school?
Newton Newton South here yet new,
This was an area like it's weird to like how jewish, because Boston Jews are different, are not the same as new. Tell me: yeah there there, the research. I think they try to pass more interesting that
like maybe more them or Germans? Will my father is canadian
Kennedy, I refrained from material Good Guess, Toronto, but that's it don't think we're FEMA friend wants it,
dream a canadian jail? He asked why she's like it takes the edge off
it does I a proper will theirs.
So. The weird thing between, like German, Jews and YO, just standard ass cannot get there's a peasant, Jew,
and then there is a german jus thing right and the german closer. It hasn't. You yeah, but I gotta Europe. Yes and you are now since you I'll take it by tab
german juice or through the air like a wipes. Yes exactly so you
I wasn't what it was like Canadian Jus, be they just integrated there? Can it your mom to know Connecticut, like normal, normal to change up shop girl. I've never said TAT S what they ate african etiquette. You know yet
I get it back from, but originally from New York or family are always Connecticut thing than she.
from stand for, I think her dad lived in Britain or you re or Romania, would she had all the grandparents grown up now I had a couple and then loss of shortly after and did you how Julie was it for you,
I mean I grub kosher home.
I still kosher wow, that's really Julie yeah.
I mean they still do area no kidding, I'm pretty jewish. So you did.
Friday and Saturday on your barometer. I think I do
nor did sadder in the bar mitzvah, like we weren't, like Jammer Chavez, but on, but to sit
two sets EU nationals. They aren't nothing and EU that's yeah, so your father was pretty religious eleazer. It still is.
And how do you feel, but I'm some religious do yeah now. Do you do you study
no I don't
had he Torah currently? No, but have you I mean bar mitzvah as a kid, but that's just it
But you don't you don't read like you know. If you look at your dad's animate hebrew book, I wouldn t know, but I mean budget. I don't softly like you know, you're doing a show now that deals philosophically with issues here
and the way that you know you present is it in
in any way by. You know your education around,
Judy is all completely yeah. I think so. I think there's a structure of comedy that has very on you know. How does that?
unlikely person outsmart somebody right what is sort of the unlikely twist that you could have seen coming? If you thought of it, it's a very
structured sense of comedy that I love via growing right yeah. So who are you guys grown up while one that you know Jonathan cats was like
your honor is. Did you did your folks know here? Yeah, can you lived in Newton well, groomed, very large, who was a famous comedian and his show Doktor Carr any idea how many women? When I worked with him, he had the he had the Qatar with, because the Cosette bit where he would play em
he would do the song. I can remember what it was.
he played. I remember who is a guitar base, but he would do I go to clothes. He would do a song that we all knew and then you know like you would be. His voice is doing it. I it was like you know, I'm an old one
Save the last chance for me or something like that right and he would
this be singing it and then out of nowhere this background voyages without oh, I know. Oh, I know that I, what song is that
the lessons from it. It is a well yeah. So
It was like. I used to work with him. I, as a comic yeah, but in Europe
doktor cats. I wasn't after cats- maybe maybe twice but like
he was like, not unlike me in that scene.
You know that it's kind of an anomaly because Boston Comedy was not in any way a jewish really not really been right,
he's not jewish, isn't even right is a jewish. I don't think he's yours I assumed I don't think so
please now, David Cross, he ever Gatsby. That's after, but like that the core group
of the guys were working like the clubs in comedy hookah like MIKE Mcdonnel
oh, that the that are economically. Then there's you be tangled meeting over here, one of the more sophisticated as long as the sophisticated theatre, shining clack, the agony, Rigel, R and D.
Gavin Kevin Knox, who did the comedy Georgian Eddie hosted every
What then, was one guy size were richer, rich eyesore who passed
why Bob said Bell. I dont believe, as do they were all these rough, a Yankee Sweeney reality out of in areas like before. Yes, yes, yours, when these are the guys it you know, I started comedy. Oh
for those guys on on one nine years? That's how it started for me with no off clubs and cross was launched or hasty. We kind of
I used to state as our time- and we ve had this here. This is a good
a good. Probably this somewhere with with with you'd in
Dan up in a way were I interviewed Dave across two or three times since we eat he became huge, like I remember when he
far away with cross comedy would
It was an improper Sierra sketch group and I went on to go to New York to to pursue stand up, so I came here to do the group thing I went there in here.
Stand up was always abstract was not. It was hard. So when you
but it datum. You know, like
he tells a story about point. Jimmy's indeterminate guy came up at the audience and bit his ear they, but, but because of our back on his as comics
and I know him for years. In any enemies, obviously done great things much much beyond stand up I've,
to him to his face. Not thinking was offensive twice,
on the radio who would known
but you would be the guy huh do get successful, ok and at some point is what have you got a new. I know anyway, but my dear
feel you know, or why would you do that's right, but in my mind I just remember being on stage we off stage waiting for him to finish opening at at the front in Vermont
bombing just going. I cannot comment on spring me up. You got to stay up
there's, no sort of Larry David's trajectory to you is that you're gonna call me, I think so, yeah yeah, I know, but I think he was a little more choices. We all is correct and we will be hated by the crowd and you can bear it cause you believe in yourself so, but he would die, could not do. I think he wary
he was actually angry it damn it seems, but David was due.
we need something at interesting. Like David was you know he would do these characters Emmi? He was.
Have we alienating them any new? He would, but it was truly fund
you know I keep. You did all these different character as he would do very you know he would take real chances with. You know he would go up on stage doing it
a voice or for ten minutes hooker and an end in go so over the top with it that people would start now,
Thing and he would stop- and I dont know, if you're laughing at me with more your lap with any really kind of took it. That's funny, it was me
Calvin. Ask then I love that thought a year I yeah, but
interesting. Sir John was was a family friend cats yeah and
and you guy has he doing here- we're doing good good good.
you lived with them as for so long yeah he yet he actually he made me. I think he he mommy compliment
something was very nice he's always been a sweet eyes, so your guitar, no hidden semi guitar,
David Mammoth, who at out is hard to understand sometimes, but you go back with
if one change, sometimes you just tolerated, but so how did
He impact you so yeah you're saying that, as you were a kid, the funny people that they had an influence on you,
John was one year where he was one minor, guy sure and in a very written and structure. Do I thought that's what comedy was Thea Hum and that was but who'd you watch by courier heroes.
Mitch. Hedberg was an earlier hero, so does it get? Those are the key.
Next year. One liner people blew me away, Rodney
you know you, I was too young to get right now. I do you have it.
In General, Donald, obviously timely, but yeah the people you see on us, and I will do you now. I'm forty two zero gettin up there you're grown permanent kid. So I like the jewish idea like ice, do like I wrote a bit about
yet it when you read your twitter cherry red biblical tails
are. You read the Bible in general, there
I think the line I wrote was in Christianity. The wages of standard is death and injury,
it is in the wages, a sinner, negotiable, aha, that their son
to be an ongoing conversation. Well, Simon Rich, you know him one of my favorite comedy writers. Here he has a very sort of Judea, equally influenced. I think sort of
More all. It's funny Judy as the act as you are always negotiating with God, and there is so legalistic. Yes. Well, if you do this, but then that, if you think of it, this way right and that's funny yet funny to negotiate while he had the mackerel starting today is very logic based, but it's also a conversation with with the the extra.
nations of behaviour of spirituality, of God, of what's right and wrong yet justice, I outgoing kind of thing it's great yeah, but but
I assume that that the jewish
issues like I just find it gonna fascinating that this book that you're dead road is is, is sort of like it's all over it covers everything covers you know, like does to tell
mood tail? Consider here. You know they proceed
tales in one line alignment of come here, and you know it also comics, like actual
many Bruce, but but no but, like you know, like oh chronic, Europe's Ya Ya, mad magazine is an area where all kinds of things, so
you. Never your dad, never sat down and said you're funny. They were always more concerned with your weird sort of unbridled. They were concerned about me on my dad
loved. When I was a comedy writer did not like me being a performer. I could tell you just added, but didn't like it very unconveyed in
and he's a ghost writer. So it's like the opposite of. He never was a nice novel
he wrote a little nonfiction obeyed and write a novel and these nonfiction. How did you read it? Well, these first book
and good for him was.
About marijuana and nineteen, eighty high culture, and he s like he always does
to that cause. Forest cool- and I was There- is our me out
I didn't know that he was doing drugs Quantum court until I was much older, oh yeah, he smote we'd every night of my life and I did not know, even though he was a kaleidoscope, collector among other things, and we're just crack up
watching cartoons of me at night the data are Seinfeld every night right, ice cream and and
you know comedy realized. It was made him very happy so does here, but he didn't write that and then you're my parents. You know when I did a prank or something my dad would, my mama being
my dad would like it, but then they did not. Think of me as a fake id Nathan
what's funny you're, but you know I don't know,
you don't think. I think they thought that I would maybe get in trouble for that stuff. You know my so so, but they were
They were supportive in it seems pretty well grounded and not a you're pushing you in any direction. They were just sort of like ie.
whatever you want to do
You do, I guess so they didn't seem that interested they weren't,
they're nice. They were very all over me, but they never were like. What are your plans are goals? I would tell them closely Billig come down like they made my mom very nervous, really, aha. Why
item she's, a very anxious person wants, I told her. I can you believe, Elon Musk, as were twenty
billion dollars and she's at all. I said
did you just get nervous, he would lose it and she's
I guess I did
like she's just nervous about successor right on rebuilding of it. I don't know.
there. They did not like that. I was so driven her because I thought you
but it wasn't because they day they were concerned. I liked him more than my mama's were anxious about it. My dad yeah, but but
it wasn't they were. They concern that you weren't, that you are going to come up against the problem that you seem to have, which is you ok
You be you're, comfortable, authentic, south, ever
they weren't separate that where should have been cause, I am they warrant that in light they they weren't. Separating that from ambition underlying would only minor amounts to is success. Then how are you going to know who you are my mom's biggest fee?
here. We that I would be weird
and I remember I was in like kindergarten and I would walk around the play. I still remember vividly Walkman playground, thinking things
said to me once she must have an tipped off. What are you doing
tell me I said I I go for a walk and I think about things,
and she looked so panicked and she said you do not do that it at recess. You play
with the other kids. I said. I don't know how she said you go up to those kids, you say what are you playing? Can I play with you, and so I
id and they said sure road. I played kick ball for an on like I never forgot she
very nervous that I would be where you never forgot how nice it was too just walk and think about how to install a still do it all the time and you every hour
me too, we are constantly it's like it
job in a way yeah, it's totally the job, but its way.
Does anyone have any idea? What you thought exactly? Are you work something out? Yeah, yeah, that's that's yeah yeah!
That's my ideas. You go for a walk, you think about you. Let your mind wonder you come up with things in and you go home and write them and they ever feels like work, but I get excited when I like. I guess I got a riddle, artificial
because I want my brain to be provoked and
science fiction doesn't do that for me. So, like I just read some new Douglas COPE, one thing that he wrote with some other people called the extreme self about your technologies effect on our sense of self.
Serve expansion of of what we leave in the world through technology so like for me,
that coincides with some things, are thinking about trying to execute and stage and in
and I get excited so
How do you want
You stay out of just thought loops, but I guess you haven't. I project so like when you have
to write? Seven shows tat. No, I obsess obsess deactivate problem. I have said
and partly reason yeah like that. What ho god like?
which story to choose which how to write everything. I changed my mind. Constantly I'd lose sleep over right, a scene that doesn't matter, and then I change it back. Then I say: wait had, can you
can you pull? The edit of this episode at the scene should be different in there like I can we can unlock it. I say we got
like. I'm console really are but see. I think the difference in like you know, I think I'm fighting somewhat of a difference between you and me that would obviously
There are plenty and I'm not comparing yourself to be bought some point and some level I am. We chose a similar path, but I do something much
different and make
much less impact, so the
the idea for me, though, when I'm thinking about stuff, I really need to solve big problems that have to do
with my understanding of the Fucking World WAR,
like when you ve, created a world that you're servicing, at least it's you have a context
at enables you, when you have a story, you equal. This is the puzzle, and this has an impact in its informed by the the bigger picture, a hop at this.
is my story within that I'm export yeah, but I'm still working out what, if I'm just removing MA, am do in sending your but I'm removing myself from it. I'm saying it's not what if this happened to me, what would I do the ones yet again that as a problem, but that's the problem, is that the problem with my yes well,
Yes, in now and a good way, it leads to a story that more people can grab onto. I guess if its german PAM, instead of you and your acts on the office like
Ok, now you ve kind of created something more universal dossier. We abide by the hour. Honestly, though I can write for them. I can't write merely as well about me and whoever, but I'm assuming that you know when I watch those five episodes that the UN we character there
it seemed truly informed by, but by maybe who parts of who you really are was
a guy on the stand?
to me, the only person is Lola Kirk in the commenter, the woman who has driven
crazy by a single anonymous comment.
The one. I felt. Ok, it's me you ok! So
politically and in terms of where you stand as a progressive, I'm not that progressive. Now I didn't relate to him that much. Ok, ok, so the commenter. So that's you that really so so
ok that may, which is probably. Why was obsessed with coming on your show that
that makes sense because Cosette Character,
You know I've. I go through that. You know, like
I you know- and I saw those were that's interesting, so that was a crisis for you
so that the plot of that is a woman who is getting constant and an convened
sing positive feedback from everyone in her life. Yes gets one,
negative, anonymous common online. It becomes obsessed with examples that thread and gets more and more feedback. That aha seems to be right here and she starts to try.
that only the commenter is honest with her and she throws away her life to pursue the commenter. Yes, that to me
is my sort of fear and fantasy that some
out there is
no is more and was white,
drove me creatively when I was doing stand up with the idea of the audit
its will know what
to think of what I'm they'll tell me if the joke works, or
doesn't or if they are-
we all know immediately, you'll know immediately air right sure, and I do think that a better level to be out of the car
because I don't know everyone's probably different set point is, and I think
now, Larry, David and and David Cross, Maria, the other extreme right am, I know what I think is funny. I don't give a fuck what you think. Would you aren't you up at some point? You have to get there and I think you ve gotten there to some degree,
I was very much like this is what I think here. Isn't it may not as a stand, but I mean at some point you have to
in order to survive, and you have to
at least believe that
you're doing is is it is well I
the giant ever one comment you said about me online. That was very funny and I liked it
was, I said they say the biggest risk takers no risk at all. I'm annotate, I'm gonna, be like you know,
call this mother fucker out there and take no risks and you said seems we work enough for you
and I sat down, and that is a very good burn. That is a very good burn. I go. I get that and
and yet so now I am said the show. Definitely, you know. Well, that's good wiping
It is interesting that that thing, because I'm trying to figure out what my experience with with being told is an
it never sort of Marin that was actually about me pursuing a guy named Dragon Master to a dungeon, the dragons game and figure out. Where that I was to ask him, why doesn't he keep doing this to me? Annie
basically uses his Adam. Like you away,
hours as, as you know, thought
foreign and supportive, but is more personal or more directly person.
No, it wasn't. It was based on a real thing, but it was a similar experience where a guy, just when was relentless about yes, some of my comedy and Anne was picking at part on on a common
or do you know and just accusing me of all these things and it was really killing me and
has it resonated? Will ya
big bulgarian security. You know that is is is genuine, but it doesn't mean that
those voices are correct. The voices that you have inside of yourself that say you suck. That means that that
credible. Necessarily it it just party you
you're fucking engine.
that ever then, when someone else as you that's what I was thinking of the year but then but then did then I'm sure so people, some people, told you. But how can you know, pay attention all the good ones yea here,
do you know anymore, so you know so I I you know I
to figure out what the fundamental issue in me around that stuff was in I've. I've done some research and I've got
working model of of what that is. I could tell you what that is, but I dont know if it resonates with with your life. My well
I got it from a guy named Robber Firestone, who wrote a book called the fantasy bond
and the idea is that if your parents were selfish or
motion we negligent
or maybe emotionally abusive, which my more but negligent short, where
yeah you're sort of wealth to your own devices because they were not there.
Nurturing type or necessarily YO equipped to to be selfless enough to properly,
current or let you develop your own sense of self,
the army or you become an extension of their panic. Whatever the idea,
was that if you feel uncomfortable as a kid
it's because of your parents, emotional,
position in your life. You're, not gonna, know that show if you feel awkward as a kid.
You can't blame them, cause they're your parents, there, the Bosnia, so you can blame you so then the voice you put inside your head at a very young age is you're, not good enough. You're, not smart enough you're, not this enough because
That's the parent you invented, because your parents clearly can't be the blame zones must be you and that voice stays. That was my blowing to me, yeah
that affect the Euro. I don't, I think it's mine must be so subtle really
As it happens, I mean I've read your book. I know how dramatic grandchildren,
was compared to mine. My I did not have a dramatic childhood, and yet I do have all these issues, so I don't know it's dramatic. They were just in. They were just southern dazzled, dramatic character.
my dad's very under about a character will, but that could that can do it, the other.
That's what I'm saying as you can put anything on it. You ve got you Ve Y know. I wasn't dramatic enough. You just got the boring version of honestly of the boy, the boring version. You know what I'm emotional neglect I had. Yes, I had a therapist
and I said you know- I can't complain like my daddy. You know my dad is great subtle sense of humour- and I said my dad, like you know he always remembered me. He always reminded me of David Letterman said, but you wanted Jimmy
I was like. I wanted Jimmy FAO and I wanted lacking reposing letter. We need to know the by Love Letter Magnano and my dad, but he's one of the most emotionally cripple Douglas people look inroads interesting. I never connected that. The more we hear from Letterman you're, like oh, my god, you know he was like holding things pretty tight. Yeah yeah yeah, that's true, I dunno what my dad has in there that is held
then his Canadian Reserve, canadian Jewish slipping. I get it, but but you know you haven't thoroughly investigated. It's not pressing enough for you to honour your authenticity and your ability to be comfortable in your own idea. Now, you're right, it's it's my it's! My new number one priority this and what starting now starting this reddish on. I think it's been on my mind. I'd like to figure it out, yeah!
yeah, because, like that whole thing I mean what causes
to be more honest, I you know what is it but-
look I'm not about to be happier.
let me do you know yeah yeah. I also think- and this is also very convenient logic. I think I am much more
active in creative one, I'm happy! That is where I get on my fellow you ve been happy. I've been
happier I go in and out one m
happy, I'm better! I don't know a lot of people feel more,
inspired when their miserable I dont
I bet you like. I don't think it's a choice like you know that whole sort of paradigm of, like you re, just miserable, because you think it makes more creative, like I dont choose to do whatever the fuck. My brain is doing
I've gone periods were I don't know. I've been happy
but I ve been more self accepting. You know I have
peace of mind here and I'm not your freak.
Now. What about something there
then you're just honest about that and funny about that
yeah. I do I just react to wherever you are ye. Nobody, but it does. In you know, people don't necessarily feel safe as an audience with that with that which I think
Were I'm gathering is another difference in
terms of why I see
that? Maybe we have something in common. Yet, however, you manage your life,
I want you to have a lot more of you shit together.
then I ever did again.
Older than you and we're not.
we are totally different people buy.
The truth is because
Some primarily stand up and you are actor and I do the hard cash like when I just if
I have chosen Saint Louis cause. I'm trying to put together a new our and your during the late shows. I do clubs yourself.
I can do the work to build it out in the only way I can do the work is to improvise. So
second show when it gets weird aboard with myself- and I start talking very personally about my girlfriends tragic death or my fuckin parents-
yeah, I realize, like you, is this entertainment I dont know, but
it's what I do so I
I think that I'm for everybody obviously, but I dont think I ever was There- was never a say,
fifty wall, how between me? When did you know you weren't for everybody cause? I just found it out of ice gibberish
the thing is year for enough people in a general way. I mean you, do you have parents who have kids love your book? You have, you know,
short fiction that so very well, so you're oven ilk of people that you
you're not going to be more generally crowd. Pleasing is what was it.
Just crowd pleasing book, but of away like I relate to that guy. You know I'd like to meet him. He doesn't scare me he uttered, I'm sure
like in your life, no matter how many relationships you been in Europe,
the women need them with aren't going there he's very scary, yeah there's
I mean you know things
can hide behind subtlety
you're. Looking at me like I see, I see it right now, the anger, no, not anger, but this is really all crazy or whatever reality Wendy. I thought for many years, I'm the one I'm like Jerry Cycle, I'm the one who is not fucked up, I'm the one
he's just did you area with me? The he couldn't be more fucked up
guy, there's, no one more fucked up well dressed there you go, it's always milady. It's always, you least expect you know. Milady was the most normal guy narrow, like ok, that's when, but when I met him, I'm like, what's going on in there saying what you say miss I felt the ball yeah united by the way, I'm relieved I want. I want some of that to come out. You know
What what? What are you gonna do, how you gonna go we're doing therapy resolving Israel Heavy started doing stand up again. I'd like to I want to, but you'll.
I mean what they just like your Brennan in the airline. I
want to, and I think I will meal then we'll burn is very self actualized in in India. He's got her way and but he was very depressed, but
I would also like you, Madam ass, a little late,
the track you know
much of his issues to Yanina Fairly alcoholic family, and it was definitely kind of general groups of of the vessel.
The type of recovery that were available to him, hear him to process ya a lot of that, but I think he eyed. I would like to go and do it again, but I would I would want to do something very different and so that's another motivation to sort of find
I will let you know Jerry, doesn't think I'm fucked up, that's what I'm an I didn't either
You know, you know what he still doesn't. I dont know if I know what you know like I mean like again. The will I note about me, but with Jerry, like my
belief about what comedy is and what it can do is very different in his. But what you did see in him was in.
Emotionally he's he's grand
very tight, and that
no in that there is a certain amount of darkness there and you can track it in that
The guy was brought up by two orphans. Yeah.
That means saying to learn
Do you like my heritage of,
how you united on one of them, were parentage. Haven't you know how to be parents like he's like left to its own devices right to put himself together? Who becomes the mahogany together? Did we ever so? What happened to you? Why don't know? What do you mean style know what happened in my own you're, smart guy, you thought about it when it bursts out the greatest comedy cry about what
Oh man at an all kinds of things. Here you don't buy it. Do you
I mean the about it right now:
maybe you just don't want to man, maybe you like unikitty to what do I keep saying I don't know, but I really don't want to see. I knew like I knew with Mulaney.
Because, like you know, you ve been sober, so goddamn long right into is like a kid right.
Yeah he's another guy hyper achiever tight.
Right. You know, control, freaky guy in a way you own terms,
his work waking up here
he's, processing all this stuff on stage, because now his fucking life is public because he's a big enough celebrity to draw that kind of attention. So now he has to reckon with it in his
but he always kind of did, but he always had sort of a patter that hid the door
Agnes yeah, you know that there was at the remaining amendments, are adamant about you know this guy was nineteen forties, talk that that hid, the real
darkness of what he was talking about, but it was always sort of their rights
Seinfeld two's. I felt you know I gave in his sort of most easygoing. Stop has a lot of sort of bitter
turned into exile. It, yes, which is a great weapon of it.
Yeah, there's layer, David Powers,
The tv show, along with them yet more. That may that's a great combination, so art. So this show what would you
someone said you were in my hometown visit for this show it
as for the movie, I shot
particularly vengeance. I was an Albuquerque means coming out.
in that light. Does never coming out. No, I'm saying that this is just another thing. You ve done how much you
Yeah you never stop working, it seems
and I don't know why I'm spiteful about that greatest. Pardon me its eye. When are you gonna just relax and figure out who the fuck you were, so we can all? Well, I guess you proper. Yes, no need to do that. I need to do that now.
I do not want to do that for yourself, the out for myself
by the way like to Odin Courthouse
the other day. I turn up
HBO Max and there's an odour Kirk account. So his easy
my Ishmael MAX, always ignorant.
We cannot, but he'd know I was honoured Ella he bought the house from a guy admirably with Opel was going to say
the other issue was. I think that
what people criticise you about.
specifically me and Andy can yes, I was like us,
Is that you know you got you gotta golden ticket right
out of Harvard right and be because,
did the whole thing right, you did. You did the lampoon. You did the haste
he pudding or whatever. Where did the lamp and devotion
other silly show? I didn't do that the hazy, but headed
What is there another want? There's a is at last the one that's the one she did the lampoon
right which I visited. It's so weird, do you know what they had me come over to you know you'll, give me the prize by don't drink or nothing which is going to disappoint them
but they invite me over the do that ceremony there in unlike me, because you're fucking kids, this what is this year- and I hear it amazing
but it become mythic in my head. It isn't anything look! Oh they you're saying they were just kids, yeah yeah, but that building on the ceremony easy. I don't know much about him other than the one where they give the guy. The thing
I think that everybody was disappointing. Ok,
I don't think they were that excited my name. You know like it because it I usually they want to drink, agreed at the abbot. They knew that about you. So I guess I don't know man. So what so amazing about it. I I mean, if you didn't
twenty eight or respond to it, just that when I get lampoon I like it, he had a different psychotic thing. This disc
asshole built by a sane person on the island and Harvard Square you wear a ten year olds at Harvard. We are going to your action. They want instead devote their lives to the most as so tariff
comedy and anti comedy two may,
each other laugh. I mean it's this insane system that is really to eye on
your stand? The privilege that I come from an look like I come from, we buy it to mitigate it. It was fuckin,
hard to get into Harvard, and we are working hard to go through. That lampooned makes you not spare. You now and dumb, and so that is stats its own thing,
not saying that any color is wrong, but I gotta Golden
but like in my minus hey, I worked so I heard that Conan was
go unpunished. I got I gotta get into Harvard good lampoon. You know so, but that was the thing is that you always put the working to get there that yet
Those of us who, like I, but it would be also fun to like you Know- have fun
along the way, but you did not know I mean I
That's what I was doing by way of whom was fun, though you seem to get excited about yeah. It's it's a fascinating thing. For now
No five, it's a lot of fun and a lot of like lot of like you know spiralling about what the hell is. This thing, oh yeah yeah here it's weird so
when you're so bright by have dreams about if there s your life, if you really are the sounds like heart like traumatic YE, I think it's probably like not. That is nearly as important, because it's the most relevant thing in the world.
like us, and our people there on us and right argue about every area based this weird high pressure thing, but isn't there like sort of like? Isn't there a kind of did did we did you? Doesn't I've talked to other people about this in a United Europe?
I wish I had more discipline as a kid and could have gotten into her, but it did not, but
none the less
Isn't there is some sort of all the boys network that kind of functions in how we,
but is that a myth that,
when you come out a Hollywood. If you did well at the lampoon or if you have a reputation within these circles, aren't there people
like you, should check out this kid Novak? Yeah, he's writing a thing. So great Daniels knew about you from somebody else. Lay out a book back,
yeah, as as a Yankee camera, would say? Yes, if Bob whoop right that said
I get it being on the other side of it. It's like. Ok, these people were literally trained a pre professional pride,
Raymond Comedy yes for, like a students- and you have your own, showing your freak out right and you're like I have five.
lot. I have seven slots. You know I ok who do you know where I get it? Ok right, so you got a shot because you did the work, but though the work that you do,
it is seen, mistakenly
so perhaps as privileged
the mistakenly a little bit and a little bit totally true yeah. Of course,
I grew. I also look. I grew up in the kind of like healthy, suburban, like book failed house,
right, that that was a very reasonable designing. A dishonest anywhere in you is. It can even exist anymore. No, I dont think it does, because I think that
You know when I was growing up you picture like oh aims. I
town you haven't heard of you assume as idyllic now at any time you haven't heard of you assume, is like a math doubt wasteland
or you? Will you assume it's an option when you mean that people
even for those towns dude,
isnt Saint Louis now, and you know,
people costume having cheap
it's sort of honor now to evening out again it's kind of on the upcoming at their renovating there's. You know, I mean your gentrifying, whatever your opinions about that are right, but I mean a lot of these places like over
outside of methyl, but I mean like
They know you Katy Vermont is the biggest heroin problem, the country heroines different,
so our situation, its
problem, I get your lines of math
I'm saying that a lot of these these
on coastal cities that have a good.
Cost of living and some sir.
Urban infrastructure are appealing to people. The up I mean this places like I think it's all going to be on fire soon reign in and
whatever is going on these east. It's it's be be. Water involves the first time recently heard someone say we're gonna we're gonna leave for fire season
yeah I've. I did a bit about that my last year that you know like I'd like it's all early this year, fire in no don't know for sure, but but anyway suggest to rican Regan.
Figure your sense of aims. Iowa the up is not where the
the University of Ai Weiwei eyes. Why wasn't my idea? I don't know that I was city but aims,
as a big university, where I was sitting
I wouldn't I vanity writers. Thank you. I was cities Idyllic Fisher, one going to blooming tin unanimity at next week's than ever were unwilling to like itself. The college shown is gonna interesting with a little weird, but oh everything, sir I'll every college, town and a red state.
But be I dont know what happened to that life. I mean you caught the tail end of it. I think your generation, but because the people I worshiped were probably you know
of your father's generation or maybe a little older heralds he his seven.
Yeah like that crew
of intellectuals who sort of care
up in the seventies, I mean those,
the guy's, a defined most of what we think is funny, and it sounds like it
making you got a good dose of that from growing up around it, plus that whoever was appealing,
Anne and more age alike to you here
but I gotta know what happens now. I don't know where it all. Nobody knows everything so fuckin descent and also yards centralizing. What are you I mean I think stand up is where it is right now they think what it was
stand up, you can vary tribalism and unfortunately, you know what's being pushed culturally provide.
I could have stand up and
near the enemy seems to be progressive ism. So I dont know like a
you have this sort of anti woke move.
do have stand up, is a little
problematic, and I don't know that there is much push back and any organise way against it. It seemed to be taking up a lot of space
Thea, you know fuck you you know you
sensor me, but I mean as a form of form like what is the ultimate thing to aspire to what the IDA like look again now I think Stanhope is bigger than movies. Now I dont
I really don't know what everyone's taken in deny. Nobody knows anymore. I dont know if there are no cultural hierarchy and that's right. Yes, and that's that's the I don't know what
do it that you you're it no chief,
nobody here you're that the poster of what went again and now at every area- but I mean
I dont, like I don't know what to do with it, because I don't know, but that's the thing you don't do anything with it. I guess you re, like the light coming people going to watch you shown. Is it going to be enough enough
I don't know like what are you? What are you hoping to? You know glean from that you'd get an award or are you write concerned about you know it?
many people are watching. How do we ve I'd? I want all of that stuff, but what? What really is? It is like that
Some teenager, like I was, will see that an always talk about it always think about it, and I don't watch
Lord shows, but you're, ok with one teenager now I want millions but likely you now, but it's about. I don't care,
like to me. The south park eyes or the ultimate brought lake
there you never see them at the fucking enemies, they're, not like their knowledge
a marvel move, because its status rights makes out parking erroneously up our knows what the hell it is there at another level. You know
you don't think you can wrap your brain or undertaking a marvel movie if you are asked. Ah now I couldn't, but what? If
there are like, but you can bring your thing do it. I just
like Marvel movies mean either I mean, but if you thought like what? Maybe I could do one, but the push back against.
that would be just self justification,
there's no way? I can on that level, I couldn't
look man I should. I marvel movies and I was in the joker for two seconds: that's not a marvel exactly. I should tell you that you can do that. Comedy version, that's cool right, so I would say well if it's like the way, I did say that we do not, like the MR show version from my now. I'm doing a voice for Dc Super pets, and people like this is the guy that doesn't my comic book, whose activities in the areas of marble voices, different yeah sure I am let loose sides here. You know my legs
with her for the dog versions of the superior pets, that's cool I find now. Maybe
so. What's vengeance about doing vengeance, I play a Pike Esther, an aspiring pastor.
Here in a minute, and you wrote it here and directed it- we're trying to prove man
where is it like? You ve done everything so like? Where does this level? Is it just that you want to keep doing everything, and you know
are you done the acting you ve done. The writing down will bid a stand up, direct and now, like you
hosting anthology, show we talk at the beginning and write all them, and now is this? Is it did the drive to greatness?
yeah. I mean this is, but it's excitement like I take it that walk and I'm like all happier calmly and then this
happened than I do that and in it I do
like that, and then you I try to make good on
those things you come up with Nokia and exciting, and
you're your experience in getting opportunities to do these things is that your past opportunities have
shown enough benefit or profit that year
given opportunities or that year
a key that you seem totally capable of handling what you're asking for. Why do you get so many opportunity? I think in our some
the nation, William into being and looking like, the kind of guy that wouldn't screwed up right now. What's the movie about, is a broadcaster podcast, her kind of fuck boy, as it were on? Who
girl that he was casually hooking up here dies of an overdose in West Texas, and then he is the family,
I thought that they were very, very serious relationship, so he's kind of guilt into going. The funeral, when he's there the brother play,
the boy Holbrooke VS says
We need to avenge her death. I call my part
ass producer play by disarray and say I have a great story about the you know: poor devastated red, safe
the things they need vengeance for something we ass a sort of like this. You know it
with blood houses were like a red state, a hop loose state power,
cast intellectual are hardly thriller yeah, it's one again. It's I've done.
it's all shot, I'm editing, and now he
However, I think it's great, but we'll see,
and you don't have to the future of it.
Will come out right, but
But you know nobody knows a feature of any movie. Now I dont mean. Is it in theatres? I now peacock at an earlier. I dont know how do you do
do people watch them, but they won't tell you. I don't know you know,
well? How do you feel better about us? I
I'm kind of blown away yeah, I'm lookin, you seem very
open invulnerable, untrue. I dont know I can say about me an intra. I gotta, you feel like you, ve been open and vulnerable and true as much as we can.
Yeah. I don't know what I feel like. I've lost this
I am part of me sad, oh no,
hey with Mark yeah, yeah
John, don't worry about that so, but I mean ultimately you're gonna have to come
back when you have the catharsis at enables you to somehow connect your true self to something.
its comfortable in the world here here.
Should we make a day to the next Russia, China? Ok, fine, good, talking, you're, amazing,
J, Novak supremacy streaming now on effects on who, with new episodes every Thursday you can go to
W T, pod, dotcom, Swash tour
Why do you see where I'll be playing where there are two?
that's getting harder to do the ridge.
we'll play house that's November a weapon to day.
Before my New York show, I believe there are tickets available for that November. Thirteen
your comedy festival, Town Hall, that
be sold out,
I don't know, go check
Now these things I doubt there is
Show happening that hasn't been announced,
And yet that's why we're we're at
when we face a mild metal for you now
Morgan on my metal.
let's get a very where I know man, I know I guess I'll be a man has now everybody it sloppy at the end.
Transcript generated on 2021-10-08.