Kenneth Branagh had a lot on his mind when making the movie Belfast, a film based on his own childhood. He thought mostly about loss. Loss of family, loss of where you come from, loss of innocence. As Kenneth tells Marc, he’s been thinking about loss a lot lately and figuring out how to strike a balance between heartbreaking and heartwarming. Marc and Kenneth also talk about the importance of visiting the graves of people you admire, what discovering Shakespeare did for Kenneth at a young age, why he might be ready to play King Lear, and why he worries about something actors call The Bleed.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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Wrap in man. This episode goes
all right. Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck's bodies, what the fuck Nix what's happening?
Mark Mare, and this is my podcast welcome to it it's quite
ride today. I gotta be honest with you. I gotta be
as with you,
How are you are you? Ok, really, but
because this episode, it was surprising to me it was surprising, its Kenneth Brenner
All right he's on the show. Ok,
He wrote and directed this new movie Belfast, which is a semi autobiographical coming of age movie about growing up in Northern Ireland. During the troubles did you know that
I didn't know that I have to be.
As with you. I had prejudged Mister brand.
not knowing anything
over my life, I'm not
I can about today I'm not talking about. When I talk to my talk about my life over my life.
I decided at some point, probably very near the start,
Once we started you know about, can have Brenner that he restored
a high highfalutin do like?
maybe a snobby kind of earnest.
Yeah yeah, I don't know what I thought but add someday
It would Shakespeare that something to do with you know his,
is steaming demeanour,
and maybe as younger man, he was different, but I had no idea was this irish kid from from the
from that you know the bad part. Two,
What was really the bad part out is a poor neighbour. By no idea about it. That's predict that wasn't what shifted things
I mean what shifted things was wishes,
like he got here. We are
a few exchanges, but
just didn't know anything about him really and we got into it, and it was a
an exchange of ideas and feelings, and we move through things and there is-
moments during their show where he was acting
stuff out now, watching them acted out and it was almost shakespearean. We talked about
whether or not he should do Leir
Yeah, I'm advising can have Brenna on whether he should do Lear. I dont know what it. What do I know if he's gonna take my
But what do I know in general?
and I didn't make him do Shakespeare, but I felt ashamed. I felt the bards presence.
and I'm not a Shakespeare guy, but it was there
then we'll pace excitement
I thought I was on a ride with this dude and I didn't expect at all you know. Sometimes I
I get it my seat now in and people said across from me. I have no idea. What's gonna happen, I just round this one.
Kind of electric yeah I,
No experience of him talking anybody to watch anything did know anything just
the few movies I've, seen nobody
like Adsense. Just why watched Belfast
would you can see now?
and I wrote it out
I wrote it out with this guy and again.
Not unlike when Sir
Mc Clellan did.
Shakespeare, to my face because
That was being like you know our eyes. I was right now
Shakespeare that good
Who is that
in Macao and did Shakespeare Surrey Mcgown did Shakespeare to my face. A kind of off the beaten path
Shakespeare Spirit, this certainly Sir Thomas more Amano on from that about immigrants. To my face,
I got it, it did it son.
can he delivered it? I understood
I knew I was amazing
I think I've always known why it's amazing.
But not unlike lire.
the music or rap lyrics
or where it's in general.
I get it I've our time, listening toward them all.
After a certain points I can follow, I can't follow. I do it,
into plain talk but sort of anything.
With a groove with pen tamper with a lot of,
it gives like? I started, get lost a boys.
You will see that can get that arc both Shakespeare
in some rap tunes
while man, I can't follow the dumb tired, my brain hurts. I don't know
I enjoy the music go. I enjoy the actor I like
watching the actor talk I like hearing the beats, but again I had
a very in depth. Conversation about shakes,
air with one of the great shakespearian actors of all time.
it felt understood, not fella like here
there stood me that I had some
reasonable things to say being led dolt than I am
When it comes to Shakespeare. I don't know if it's some adhd, I don't know what it is, but I
have a hard time with scripts in terms
like where is this guy, going what sustains direction? Where are we now what happened?
In between this, I just can't hold it my head, I can't see it in the sea.
I can see it when its described in a book
It's really an obstacle for me. Am I
here's for not being able to lock in which Shakespeare the stage direction. That's that's my issue right. There.
I get lost because of the stage direction.
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Pace come inaccurate, Kenneth, Brenner,
on a manic tear.
In the emotions, when you talk
about his father
that thing it out right here like this
we did some stuff. I believe I beg you, did some stuff from Lear.
gave him some advice about. You know
whether he should wait to do Lear,
I'm the guy to ask if any
You shakespearian actors are wondering how
the way to do we're gonna brand,
I asked me so maybe you should ask me too
tell me anything about TAT Shakespeare, an album
she's right through it. I
You understand the scope
We go in there. I know it's all in there. It's I'd like
it's like visions of Joanna by Bob
go and everything's in there
you, don't need to do any more after that, and you can you can
We should all you want. It's all right. Ma am only bleeding it's all in there. It's all in their Shakespeare.
the lot Dylan did a lot
I'm comparing that you all of a sudden out of nowhere. I'm just saying there are some
things that contain at all and that thing
will evolve with you.
as you get older any
the great art will go,
As your eyes get old,
you will see it in new ways, this part of life
as your eyes get old
the light will shine through the art that is carried through your entire life. It will always be there for you.
It will evolve with you. It will reveal itself.
as you get older. It will reveal itself in new ways
bring a new way to look at things as you.
you start to shuffle off this mortal coil artwork
He, therefore you
the music. You love the movies, you love the theory, you love the palms, you love the military, love the paintings.
You shot full of this mortal coil art will be there for you and you should keep it with you stay connected to it,
Its brain blood brain food- I've said it before art should pay
you in the brain and it should stay punched. That's the
beautiful trauma of art,
how it impacts you we're.
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about a vast one at a vast dotcom
its AV, a as tee Thou com,
and also again to say thank you to all the
I came to see me a town hall last Saturday. I appreciate your support:
Pritchett you come out. There is great to see
everybody- it was a special show in that will never happen again. Not
like. Many of my shows stuff.
Happen there. That will never happen again, big chunks of stuff. I like
That's the only thing that makes it worthwhile for me is when a big chunk of stuff happens,
unaware came from. I dont know why it happened. I don't know who
livered it to my brain, but I'd like to think that
my brain is punch drunk from art they made
Sometimes I stutter out some pretty good shit.
I have no control over its the gift. Is the portal being opened
keeping an open mind and keep it
we'll fire in there. Now
I'm an unresolved person, I don't know, what's gonna gimme closure or p, sir,
got me from doing dumb. Shit by
to get a brand about life in and we were going to talk about. You're gonna hear it now Morgan talk about the new film Belfast at he rode directed nets.
Beautiful movie. Belfast is now
playing in theatres. It's it's kind of a beautifully constructed. Anyone we'll talk about it.
Strap in this is me and Kenneth. Brad are very interesting and exciting to see you in person. I will thank you very much right here in front of me, pull that, unlike in polite in protein idea, shovelling to finally done if you boys it over it in your life footing like you're in show business. It is good that you can't you can move it to your love of. This is really I just like it. I, like, I know a nigh, dumb, loving and loving the multi dimensional movement possibilities. It has never made various eyes, it does not it, but it's it's unusually waited till. I would say a lot about tightening final may know you loving yeah, don't they have the cost of the Adobe really generated that I've been on a BBC, bring your own in come on up
but you don't live here at all the I don't live here the place here, nothing! No! No! No! I have one so more less to you
period, but about a decade ago our lives, a Manhattan Beach and
It was my extended period. I loved my absolute loved it yeah yeah yeah. I did what year is that what you're is out? What was where I we came at the beginning of two thousand and nine. We ve been waiting for for Marvel,
so that also that's not that wasn't long ago, Noriega but it
We re lighted. My wife free, like didn't, nor with with tiger known Anodyne directed the first one, certainly directed diversity. Absolutely always there is our resentment against taking our deep seated resented. I didn't get. It does now. Fifteen of the thoughts on that there's, like I don't know, I thought when he's not now not my world mad haven't seen any of it. While it said. Listen, it's all a heavy. You go the exciting, exciting things become a means
Bobby said it all box at the embassy. You oh yeah at, I think I'll. Do it. As I'm going out, I went on mediating, ridden with whatever gets me I'll go, maybe it's time, but then what? If you want to go back?
see things again in a bid to light might rewrite cause. Europe does Easter eggs in there. You guys I've spoken out publicly against it. I didn't hear only adding that America is I've been herbal against city, the
consolidation of the entertainment. I, why are we all being infantilism YO
You know what I'm talking about. You'll see you'll put this beautiful movie about your childhood out there and people can be like they did no superheroes. Well, there is what actually there is a little thought comic in there. I know you which I, u that did read way way back in Belfast, but you'd have been persuaded that there is a sort of greater depth sold as a result of greater range. I things that you might like might be found in. There is well yeah. I guess so. I guess so, but, like I m sure, I would enjoy some of them, but I rather not have you.
There there just that I was in the Joker. I have one scene in January with with Robert in Europe, but that's it that's DC. So it's
That's probably kind of internationalism should. If I may, I wasn't gonna when we're tired, Phillips comments that you want do Racine within IRAN. Like me, you know, I M, not a comic book. Guy is only say. His name was Bob who woman I've seen. It appears the affair
this guy thrive
my two eyes ravage Nero
Andy. You know, and I too take the head from the marvel. People like you were being a hypocrite and I'll. Take it well, yeah exactly
I did a fellow drove the near years ago and we want John Cleats was in it Frankenstein, oh yeah. I don't! Please insisted on calling him a robot dinner of over the whole of the show. He played the monster righted seated. It was good
there's a good monster here I thought you was a human monster. Yeah, you gotta humanity to it. I think he did daddy. How did you find? How did you find work? You he's nice guys, quiet guy, like seems like the kind of guy this, for I got a group of friends were cut loose around, but it is not going to be you well.
that's the audits. Interesting did to you and I are that people I mean a you like that out and out in the world a matter now you have your personality, they might say, but do is early,
A group of this is the real me. This is the only me I think
I got pretty I'm pretty relatively transparent and of Maya endeavours and, eighty to better for better or for worse,
you know you are who you are wherever you are than people than when they go
and they feel like they. Now you a kind of do yeah yeah, but what about when you wanna get away just sort of is there did there's a secret, but if you survive- and I admire unlike committees- enormous desire it it's,
de many more things in this, but the comedy. You know that such a sort of dangerous thing than I've, always always I catch him in repose comedians and finger very funny. Basic F and I see the thousand yards stare.
just the sort of the needs girl. They just go to a very signals. Lace. Then I d sadness come why God be kept this I decided to the dog, but sometimes it is just like it, but for a preoccupation. Sometimes maybe it's just think I wanna thank rather next funny thing. I don't know what you're sure it's right there like. I did my hustle I've made my money for tonight now I concur
back into my whole. I wanted a coil of your question about them, because the war, whatever you do, don't you harmonious and obvious question, but when
it has gone well, not well, but particular one is not going well. Do you? How long do you obsess or analyze a little a lot? Not at all? Can now you gotta get yet now? Why mean that
changed over the years? I think I was fuelled by the the constant self fly
adulation for, like I wouldn't I wouldn't know with it, went well already
Ok, you're, just looking for stuff, oh yeah yeah, I know realize now like as you gotta get you get more professional and whatever you do, you can sort of here. Take it up,
aren't you gonna? Take it apart right, so I you have it didn't work
now for the entire show you gotta figure out. Well that couldn't be mine
yeah yeah yeah. You actually always the right answer. Having always I write this idea that there are no bad audiences that can go fuck its know. How did over made that up if you ve been out stage enough to know like the this one's bad
gotta when they just on data that are you ready what they want away spending money doing this, because really there must be the must be better, better reason:
enacting theatre. It's gotta, be the hard I mean look but comedy. I know when their their bad, and I know when they're just not
The energy can bring him altogether. What're you going to do so.
as time goes on, you realize the professional liabilities that you know you may not be responsible foreign. You don't take it as personally. Do you get out quickly? If you know it's like going about it, you go right, I'm cutting twenty minutes analogy running. I do your job, don't you I'm want these people that like if it's gone bad, I might just lean into it sit up. Therefore, why reality? I agree because, like I don't want anything if there
If they can, we say- and I tried
yeah yeah, yeah yeah. It's just
this amount. Will they do say you do? Did you do? I do the story become white, not work in kind of sure, I'm not afraid of you that some of the old jewish guys would say that some professionally just take the hit suck it up and you do you I just meant or went down. I did that in front of Freddy Roman server
kind of one of the mid level Bush, bad guys, you so you never bring. You don't draw attention to the bombing, and I M really I'd
saving face. I dunno, who are you
Do when you, when that goes well, when the attention of the book bombing get some good material. You say wrong to take. Those three lines are partners in the back pocket of that rare I got over escape hatch stuff with repetition. You know like you, you can develop wines it. I've been using it
pack lines but like
there's one I'm using right now, because I guess I'm fluctuating I'm doing this new our hour and a half and but there's one chunk of it. There
fairly, you know,
let it go and low in your face and a little young intense
and then I am towards the end of it. I go look if you don't like this town, it's a carrot,
I'm working on. It is called me half the time
so I think I can use at any time now. This is good. This is good.
you never did stand a no, no and I bought I've always been fascinated by was like to go, and I was for me it's it's
It's very, very scary. I get vicarious thrills and chills spills, be friends with any yes and I my admiration for the ones who the ones, particularly in any gig, but the ones you hold the big and the Ivorians. Yet that seems to me terrify you took an earlier on about. You know, theater being tough, but of course, if you're in a play- and it's not going well, you can just doggedly get too
end and you can live with their indifference, but just that aching a
get a tumble we'd advocates. Not it isn't there not laughing that that's uh, you know that's what I want to run for the hills and when they stay Yonah, whether through belligerence or just now, I'm doing the material regardless for young guy. It's pretty exciting, you know, but at moments terrifying assist, so sweaty has a Europe there with them. Yet that moment, when you're dying you, I M really alone
yeah yeah yeah, it's kind of a freeing horrible moment when you're tanking and you just delivered some.
That should have gotten a laugh and there's nothing. It's not just silencers. If there's a section, two is a vacuum to it and you just sort of like they're just waiting.
yes your hand and I'm supposed to do something about that moment. It sort of what a horribly beautiful loneliness is. Well, I'm right here in front of everybody liked that beautiful loneliness bankers that that the this also the it's a rhythmic thing is
isn't it when you haven't, when some hours gone off, it got missed, got missed India and getting them backless suing the back. You can have the start all over again and euro ready fin discomfort. Boredom shirt obtained teensy bit of aggression, job I'll go a full aggression. Sometimes you just start like you, you know I give you, I think it's gotten.
well tempered over time, and I think they take it seriously, but up I'll tell Nego thought themselves risk yeah. Let's do
what's the matter with you, but but usually it's your sort of like a kind of get off on the idea that I think
something to be said with
when you have a certain amount of self belief that a third out with you
So I guess you know it's not your fault,
Just keep Goin man, yet the usual you're gonna get it like a handful of em, yeah, yeah yeah, and then I about a year and then I'll just go. I gets interesting therefore view after that out of to hunt,
and I just want you all to know that those people are right. There are correct in this situation, so don't look at them judgment that we look inside. I like the keep going thing. I think that is such a simple goodness.
One foot in front of the other, and I don't want to crime it just right you, while it is nine in general, already airline company in sport, I love it its effort it. Yes, that always makes me cry. The ice is just is just effort when it's just
it's in glorious and no wonder they won't know until thirty years from now, when they're running a video with it. With this happy music and Alexander, he was great- and this was a wonderful moment like another- what we didn't pay attention to it right that broke him spiritually that are just that grid.
People getting on with their. I love the car owners to do a bit about the introduction of the introduction montage to the old,
wide, while the sport show you how they did
victories? It was like the victories in the defeat. It was I got out of it was co cell, but was it
beginning of the wide world sports, which was a shell like a sports, highlights
back in the day and they show guys winning. But there is one shouted, this guy doing, a nordic jump. The skis has the worse wipe out the world, any sort of, like I'm sure this guy's happy. This is out of the way, the eyes of others neurotic edge. Your bid come and say you know the pip when you break your face so funny so
comedy aside. What an
but this movies you. I won't talk about Shakespeare, though, for a minute because it was injured.
like I watch a movie I enjoyed the movie. The Belfast movie like is very good, that black and whiting that that's not always a sure fire thing, but I thought you had a nice tie
to it. I know what you shouted honour, how that worked by which a digital- even
We use the old fashioned lenses, refugees, the animal feed lenses that we used when our film of Shakespeare form of Hamlet years ago, those well
the big one free of yes, he was. He was actually those lenses, reusing lorries of Arabia. Thirty, five years previously lenses, yeah yeah, leans guide. I only the length Ursulines land back of the lonely. Eighty three saying that we maintain lending its exercise either leaves and many other issues
sure thing like, and I wait- and what did using about watching this movie belt
asked and knowing it's about you and that you made it it's sort of way
at the end of it. When you
even the London as a kid there's parties that what happened. I thank it doesn't look like he's. Gonna word Shakespeare, but it doesn't. My parents had no, we didn't have. I guess you out of here we may well. I guess we
they make a point of it in the in the thing, the wedding,
books in the house. You know now these these gang in signing not too stupid people remotely, but the just
the guy all Vinos role. Culture came in orally and now they read newspapers, but
are. We went to the library member the first book I ever born. I bought a book in Woolworth's yet Redding near, which is where I move too. But forty miles
a sideline right, dad twenty five pencil, five shillings. So quite a bit of my pocket money,
bring it back in my father being really shocked. He saw what what do you want to buy them for we're gonna do with you read it now, you re right now, really do you get eggs? I know what we do with. I said where we keep it on. The shows that libraries for that, why would you? Why would we pay taxes viewed again bar the library back and you get it? I get stuck on where we put him right. What will enable one? It was a bookcase it was. There was a
like a mystery to five percent.
Three, the loan pine, the low,
Pine adventure, the hacker just a gang Vienna right. You know I got exactly jasper. Well, that's interesting, it seems, like you know this taxes
he was playing a very heavy and important partner Giles Fit daily. This does not a there's, not a scene in this country. Movie or taxes are involved while they arrive Hulu. The rival of the brown envelope was scary thing. You know my father worked
in the building trade and do something
I did that time called a lump which was a sort of system for
In theory, helping the difficult to account for the groups of logic
over the country doing building projects stuff, it wasn't easy prodigious on eight or national is while right, yeah, exactly and Andean owed, so leave the idea. Was the people pay their taxes appropriately, but in practice you know it was a little more fluid than that right and he got caught out a couple of times with be it. You know the contention that he had not been entirely accurate with the way he'd file things
Maybe they got him? They got him in this.
We have made for quite the household issue, because
seems like we know. You know he was never dumping with taxes, but it was all very interesting to me in that. Do not have an American and I'm not dumb, but you know
historical stuff? I don't know, I don't
dont know how the trouble started. I don't know what that looked like you. I knew I love Ireland. I never shut up about moving there. I don't know why I die on the way I think they're going to embrace the aggravated jus. There's pardon me that thinks it's such a beautiful cunt
three by nothing of the history? What is it then that attracts? Who is it that its green is that they have lovely music? Is that its line? What island dies? I worry tell us what is it I just like the weight of it, I'm not sure ain't there there's a green this to it, but there's also integrity to the people and their there's. Something
that is so symbiotic between the p,
four and the land, and what might my notion of of the poetry
in history of the Place-
these are heavy cats you, nobody, they knave, they ve kind of got a fairly.
your disposition around it yeah yeah. Now what do you feel about,
the thing in Ireland that always strikes me as the die. I'm done with you on all those things, and I find it beautiful, but also to small island, and there are no great,
but he's Dublin Belfast to name but two, but they can
but he with kindness. You know it can be. It can be very it's so something we say in the film about. You know as she says that we know everybody in every house in every area. You know whether we like it or not. I like it. Some people do some.
people don't as as an aggravated jus. He ass. You like, as it were, being aware. Worse, everybody knows your business as it were. Oh I don't know what I've got enough. I was their long enough, for that says, like these are reasons why haven't move their very good irradiated in I talked to Flanagan over a tear ETA at Largo. He runs the club here and he's irish. Like he's gone down, dump I ass. He spoke it out,
he said that there was a Dame Riley Jonesy Riley by to place their down by cork, and he still,
Eric RAM here, you know he's. Ok, I'm Irish Mcmahon as well is something the only Americans particularly respond to their irish heritage, that
I guess it all seems deep seated. You know what you like what I what I did notice about Ireland. It's like I spent a lot of years when I started out comedy in Boston lost in Irish. You scared the shit out of me really yet because
Your hardened be a mean people. They, the pity of
she came to America and cut their path. Here. That's rough stuff, man who tough guy yet little of guys, and then he got Ireland any she guys. You look exactly like, unlike our God, I'm in trouble, because this would really like how we use the indigenous irish attitude of what they like two times, turned Boston Irish or were they divided button with? Who was the toughest? The real Mccoy, although the ones you come over,
no, that's the real Mccoy other unit there there in their environment. What would it look like? They're they're there
Their burden is their history. Where, whereas like I raised right, I think
that in Amerika the burden was liking. I'll fuck with us today are you in a we came here and you shit on us and now this is our turn. Yes, are you guys right man? Ok, I'm good.
You know your irish. Would you would you which gives us a new name? He felt like interest?
Britain letter might my life seems Marin, so I just throw the oh and the a bit
I would like. To sum up, my american or Morocco are all man, Moran, Moran, Irish right, yeah, yeah yeah vary in the movie
like this is really your life. Well, it
it's a lots of incidents from that. My early experience yet, and it was basically around go back to visit this time where violence erupted.
It came to our street a kind of many street what years that was, nineteen sixty nine August of nineteen? Sixteen! That's when it all started. Well, it's
we'll sorted it out street that the civil rights, some move
but that had been part of what was the sort of yellow guy.
Around the world, actually rights, impartiality, eight overrides summer of love and everything lot of social,
political movie, I drugs, etc, etc
and some kind of cultural shift today, I think, was bursting out into the street. Violence was on the streets and it came to out. They came to us in August of nice.
sixty nine in North Belfast right on this. Do you know the film is about the story of what
From the moment we realised that was gonna, be a big, deep, divisive unsettle time to them
when we decided do you do you move, do you change or perish
why, in terms of once the the Catholic Purge happened,
Well, after that, it was just a catholic purge, although that will effectively completely rewarded, Thou Street, and now you know not how we live so that all its
Babylonia Street the barricade new new lines drawn out of what were you know, civil rights issues that became moved into.
new allegiance is inside historically existing exam.
Staying organizations, and it was that the period that we accept
It was more of a at least to the nine year old boy. The ice tried see the picture through the eyes of was more
what sort of wild Wild West scenario kind of free for all wear at the beginning of that
here are some of the people who look to fill like miniature power
vacuums, yeah just didn't in the local street shore, suddenly me ten pot, Hitler's as it might be a suit yellow who basically, who are necessary, anything to do with political organizations and who, but sometimes had the
grouse is all you no kind of grudges against people who
we're already that there was a moment before in a way that the struggle became absolutely defined politically. It became much more opportunistic
in terms of local yeah, upper yeah opportunities power play the earlier, and yet there was stunned and for while, of course, there's a big question mark, but are these people coming back? The catholic displacement was the biggest displacement of people in Europe is facing
city since the Second World WAR, that was nineteen sixty nine. Ninety seven like see. That's what those things historically. Yet, where we talk about things being not that long ago, whether it's you
how a cause the armenian genocide, slavery. What you have voting rights in ireland- I mean the idea to put me on pushing Catholics out and nineteen seventy yeah. I mean like ate it and also its relevant. Why gets the other thing that,
really dawned on me is that when you re talking about domestic terrorism, which is something worth
Dealing with here in a profound way that,
yeah, that some of these issues resonate yeah the polar led. The basic
polarizing element of the decision,
invitation this this idea that, if you not with assure against as its now time to join it
I ve met in formerly been a party
you know we were, I would call us nominally protestant YA, say the Catholics industry would nominally catholic inasmuch as it provides a sort of structural identity, but it
stop any the kind of normal into play? There was some things that we were gonna fascinated by the other side, but we'd based he got off. We basically got on and then
a line was drawn us as we are not allowed to get on. You know how to get on we'll make it very difficult to get on. You'll have to be outspoken, independent. If you,
Do that and then, but still while we were there, it was still people that the ban,
lines have been quite been drawn. I think that's part of what underpins the movie is that my parents were trying
understand and analyze whether they did this was this was one of them,
you time I would you could get out base and also argue as the idea that, like how do you know when to leave
I mean you know, there's a lot of people there sat like you know. Sometimes I ask it yeah
you know like any like when you think about the Germany. Yes, it's like some people, it'll be ok, this Hitler's, not terrible bay, but what happened in the film,
was really that you know that your father's or the character of the father,
Yo is in this. You know,
this situation, where e e n out he you have real,
and and does what he has to do and then the threat
It is going to hang over shore and also the
an economic opportunity which might be the tipping point. The real tipping point will for us was something
the app and which was sir? I got involved,
sort of ad hoc it does. I recall, as I remember anyway, it was literally being dragged into
proud and then carried along by a crowd to what turned out to be the looting of a shop. So right is simply very near us and had happened
for sure that happened and when the crazy thing that happened was.
Go in there and feeding I. What do you do? I felt I had to do something in it: people around grabbing things. They knew what they were doing. I had not been in the looting before sir and better, like nine nine saw to work or to do so. Are you know he eyed? Some bit of me was mentally going all this is where the young buck, the young person of the tribe goes on, brings back an antelope or something might much meat for winter right at incidentally, like I said I could get a family by oil out, because I thought bull that seems sensible. I could
India propagated Looter, hey, I didn't. I didn't go for what I did like half a dozen buzz chocolate preparing that back and I swear to God
I couldn't even get the door open. She saw my mother just whom she knew was she knew
it was happening at he came off to me. She came after me. She got me up the street. Just drag me straight back.
We went back into that supermarkets. That was the tipping because tipping point, because after that she realised that yet she just you just got caught up in the madness that
this whatever this adrenalin furious mob activity.
who was was doing to us all. Suddenly she was back in a place where we, what they mean guns, would be a big fire out of the stones- god I it was dangerous and dumb and she was
Out of control, we were out of control and that I think for her was the was the tipping point, because if it could happen, then it could happen again. Shared us about be pregnant. With my sister,
but she just was little did we know and so that the volatility, basically that knowledge
let's see dad had there they offer for the job he s here the offer a job, none, nobody really wanted to go. We had that. We had the big extended family. We had. We had that this sort of it takes a village to raise a child idea. We lived it whether we like it or not. Around the block. Ikea grandfather was air, yeah everybody, but we knew everybody near, but her street either you just did you get it and- and the thing I remember so clearly about that time- was the I e couldn't get lost. We ve got a football match is applied football for the school. You gotta the outside a bell such coming back on
on your own. You know this year was no to business. School runs was not happy here. We will
walk into school over. We have five years old through the park right, you know, and on our own and design completely nor
all you have, because if anything happened to you like fifty people would go, would shout and your mom would know about it like Vienna before either equity I so, and that was pre digital, preferring stuff. So I met you,
after that really well I'd. I think the neighbourhood element, and also
the tone of the beginning of vision of the strain
but the family strain and the music was really nice. So out of sort of irish pops,
yeah yeah, I may have on Mars and several of the attitude that right, yeah he's Belfast boy, who was himself a corn, a boy, and he grew up on the street me when I was a b
they say we all I knew was there was a guy covert Morrison. Who was one of ours? You just had a hit with it would hate. It was like a like a two year shot success with Astral we
She was with cheap, written Grannie five, twenty six.
the great. I want the ideas with with CARE Belfast characters in an old yeah yeah yeah taken the world characters like Madam June Adams. Origin Belfast may swim source wider out of that. When that last one, it's sad and even a white said I don't know, what's going on these, but it's
he will. He always went his own weight is always goes his own way any. Why I remembered like thirteen fourteen fifteen hearing,
Eve on John done. I couldn't believe it so rave set. Are we
during the metaphysical poets at school. Hiding evening will know what metaphysical men pressure we had to study. The majority was one of them and I knew tat. He had nothing to do with rock musical Para his ear, and here was a fan. Morrison in this kind of meditative introverted arise.
every this incantation of an Elizabethan poet from the guy from down our way? Hoo hoo hoo hoo whiskered have was was was
in the Bali whether in his own step three and made his own chaotic kind of twilight and I'd I'd? I'd was very
drawn to the just thee
an individual artistic journey I wouldn't under put in those terms than budgets, is a guy who always followed his own nose right and also like he's, like you know, he's obvious we getting something out of this thing. I have to do what he asked to do. We see was here a barely. We will to permeate the film above us last week and he was there and who were you talking about touring a sign? I don't enjoy, don't enjoy performing a toy said, but I have to do it. I have to do it
let me say that it like you, there was no spending was not being charming or listen to the clerk. He facts of mine right life. It was just no had to be done and you'll know if you ve seen a meeting of the often peoples. I trust I went see vanity indolent, you never turned and faced us the whole the hull
the show how he was just here
turned away. He was in. It is in his own way. You know relational, you still have usury still owe a weirdo. Yet will he still that he makes it into these highly individual at the earth and unease also experimented with all those kind of musical personalities as well give up genuine
good, great music. You aren't undue do m. Did you find you that does that that your
musical personality is changed domain. Indeed, you terms I'd like you to do what you like, but also you like to play, and what you like me. I don't like yourself do that. I'm like yourself take this turns its for me. It's just like I'm no great player, but I think that if I can do it honestly and that event
obviously a certain confidence in
I get out of it in different tones and things, but with me
I listen to their still ip.
music some magic king, because you know you have a lifetime relationship with it and
and I think I guess I'm imagine not unlike Shakespeare There-
whenever you approach these
Is it you love either whether be music or or those plays you as you,
age. They evolve with you. Yes, so that that
this sort of the day that I think is the true essence of of genius is
You know you can approach something
Are you familiar with at different points in your life and find something totally different in them,
So do you find them with music that it is actually quite a sort of us? It's a narrow field, but you go deeper and deeper and deeper as I do like within Morrison like I went through a period for we I'm not a huge van Morrison, thank as like he's he's he's kind of a lot to deal with, but like there,
it certainly astral weeks and some of them stuff. Like I know I was in that you and I listened to actual weeks a lot
yes, not really. That long ago, when I was when I sort of rules will this is this is the one how interesting, but I thought
in the in the film like when you are. You decided to do in black and white, you kind of aid into the black and white and to begin from modern Belfast and and then you pull out
into modern Belfast, but in these memories.
There is even the moment where, like it seems, poignant in
this we intentional and from your point of view as the child.
in the theater, where you do so
a very unusual close up for the film of the act
here's, the Irae, like the object, I get it. This is where a can it realises. This is a thing
one or two areas was was how amazing I mean we watched films, big white screen. Such rarity
gotta films, which were blue my mind with all the color yeah, but it that fell like going to the moon when I first
Equally, Bang Bang seems very funny here, while he added a dead, but it made a big. We made a big difference to our shared, but if we want to see alive theatre in this case, the peace in the film is from Charles Dickens, Christmas Korea and I just couldn't
believed that they were really on the stage we could see could reach out and touch right. So suddenly, TAT was the beginning going well if they're there we're all in Belfast, but there the other side of the footlights little slow, penny drop.
ok. Maybe that's because I know I can be ensured e g bang back. I know
we can go to America. I know you can't make films cause. I've been looking random,
I can tell you to try and find where the little people living there not there and if so, that wrong on exactly exact a low, so it was like a well. There must be. I guess these guys turn up, don't they they arrive. They come to the same building as I have. It was slow,
who dawning well that that's what's edible thy rights may be achievable, not consciously there,
both the human undertaking yeah to human undertaking, as opposed to flying to the moon, which would be making films sure so
but I thought you all. In all there
At the moment you chose in the narrative, you chose the art thou. Did you sort of like have to piece together this script to decide which
of these, because it is a series of of of scenes it. You know they think they seem they're they're they're, all
continuous, but they they almost seem unto themselves into you kind of go yet the while at work
One thing that I absolutely told myself: I would do it
to follow my instinct about it, so you know I've been involved.
A lot of films, a lot of script development, whether such talk about conventional or unconventional structure, be at our story: oxen narratives and acts three eyes, five
that's where I it is right- and you know you you develop it Turnus of did deconstruct those things all Vienna, perfect them we're. In this case, I knew was a memory piece on. You wanted to go through booth into decided in a sort of low tech version of just endless cards.
We have specific incidents right, raggedy Ann I played around with where they might go and what might put it together.
Original draft of the of the screen play had the old buddy
yeah I had him. Looking back is a bit more like the structure of a film like Cinema Paradiso, where the beginning, an older character, finds out. Somebody's report has passed away and he goes back to that town and revisits it and we go with him and we go into the past with him. I tried that didn't work for me.
In a way. In a way, I was kind of anti structures, anti formality as anti deadly.
It was gonna, be something that just just had to say
satisfied me in some way and in any way back to the irishness we were talking about if it was
whatever you know, quasi poetical, what we might call if it was just a vivid, faintly stream of consciousness. The out that was gonna be ok with me, too.
It was impressionistic if it was about the way now
side that girls House or if it was about Minos food some, since it got dropped from the movie the ass things we had to eat yet, but it is about it is about the yet.
The memory and this thing the rudder. Blinded the psychologist right about you know the facts of our life of the facts of our lives are less important than how we remember them. So I felt coming in
As you know, I'm gonna worry less about facts or structure, but
I'm gonna. Do I'm gonna write down what I remember? I'm gonna see if any of it goes together if any of it falls together and and the modern structure that try to impose on it fell apart when it
came clear that it was about
the standing as a now sixty year old Guy, an inch.
That happened when I was nine that I began to understand without being sort of tragic about it. All sort of monitoring had dominated the rest of my
life, a relationship to a place where I felt so secure
and leaving it. Turning
into something else across decades. In decades,
raising journeys are guided our how I would have arrived in Shakespeare. If I had stayed there, I don't know, maybe I would have done in a different, no better or whatever way, but although those
journeys in those adventures. I relish
felt that in a place that is so short of dominated by a sense,
of your relationship to home the island. Ireland has the relationship to home as a kind of building block of the day
in a year so and yet at the same time, nearly everybody from their ruptures it by leaving fur none and
going all points, no south, east and west, and I am one of those people but the core
of how many irish culture is so strong and so striking that in a way took me until we went back the Belfast. You know at the end of last week, first night, the Belfast film Festal fourteen hundred people watching this film together, who knew the story that I've,
like I had landed back, where I knew I was here without getting all sentimental and annex are still sound, different nuts still been away and all the rest, but I still don't live this. How can I be saying this, but they still they probably own you they do only they are in this film now as well and done they and it does own you. What's your relationship to home like that? Do you feel defeat
why I don't know that I have that same type of thing. We
Now, because I, when I was a kid New Jersey, my family was from Jersey, but I remember my grandmother. I remember that house, I remember feeling
that community all the relatives were around in my family. My my
my dad move to Alaska good. My doubts in the service from New Jersey so often were separated were in the ice cold. Now
move to New Mexico, so there was,
There was a longing, but they always always stay connected to Jersey into that condemn. My own became New Mexico. I was talking to somebody else about it. Bill Pullman was here
you're, even the air in the place where you grew up lagging a when you go back there, it is integral to to your developed.
Yeah yeah did the sense of the ground, your working walking on the tone to feel the smell of the.
The air immunity is very odd thing and what would
I would like what would be the words that come to bind. Get three words came to mind about that.
New Mexico, New Jersey and New Mexico. I'd love to hear the difference, whether you like it
Words come to mind for me about New Jersey. Is it just my grandmother and
yeah, like melon balls,
and humidity yeah,
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah? What about new Mexican? What New Mexico, while I was there
and you say you know big sky.
and you know the feeling of of, I would say spiritual space by
an expanse that that allowed my might my brain to feel sort of free? That's
interesting out, I know New Mexico a little bit of work a few times that I was very, very I loved being and big skies exactly what I carry away from that and
This feeling a jeweled all at Madame sign is you that the path,
our of environment on the spirit you know is it is, it is, is tangible and there is a spectacular extra.
An example here of a kind of expansion. Yeah I've felt different things. When I was down here, I loved exploring there I loved it. I did some pilgrim
is down there up the Taos next year. The H, Lauren Sir said migrated, there's a voting. They did,
You got a global search for a forum for an eye
he'll kill you, lady, Agnes Hopper, what everybody was looking further, so that particular part of the world has something special, but its space is unique. I wanted. I went to hoppers grave, but, alas ties Erika I found it it's in this strange little. Mexican cemetery
that looks like a parking last year and it's like one of these
kind of like you, no kind of very like
that's right gum, rough kind of grey.
If, yes, where people travel there to leave things, but it's like traditional kind of mexican wooden cross. No frills
you. Have you gotta? Look it up defined. I want twice
I understand, and then people and it's like right. It's off the beaten path in a outside a house and liking in ages.
Bent a few days in house. I was
profound amount of grief and origin.
Do I trying to you no kind of figure
How to ground myself- and I just want on hikes every day and it was standing up there and I will have you
spend much harmonizes ski there. When I was a kid, I went there to sit under the same tree as I saw did learn sit under when he,
composing his book mornings in in New Mexico. One is an extra her aunt S, others a famous but he's outside a cabin Mabel, Dodge Leeuwen had provided our him. She was part of that Georgia, O Keefe yea artistic community, with stipulates in I'm yet and that and that that that's of that ritual of going
places like little wider somebody, you ve covered diverge data or, as I go for hopper loud today, they Saint Matthew, maverick sitter, tutor aerial mavericks into two controversialists. Here I mean Lawrence was their party because nobody else would have him here. I had been chased out of Britain need been accused of pornography with the Rainbow and lady chattels lover later on became a great course celeb
yeah? I know he was he any was a restless guy like I imagine, Hopper was only go so talk about it. She feet so I mean you: can you can do a world odyssey following Lawrence and trying to work out? What are we trying to find in the countries that he went to to settle this unquiet ha? What did he find? Well there? Is
Sensitive, the you know, autistic companionship. We had a sort of patron think he was always looking for some. It is a bird have recalled.
but he is David Herbert Lawrence, sure I'm and
working class guy but very suitably be theories very poetic, and I guess he he wanted
somebody who would let him
get on with the work that he was doing that he knew he was doing under
almost certain threat of early death, because he was being thin into particular agenda and he lived with that that kind of thing. So too, too, I felt going too
how's that just I was in that world of it it it reflect
back on you, your own searches for a full peace of mind, the Amis somebody trying to find a for a minute in a beautiful picture
look like he founded under this tree. So I went to try to the good to the source I wanted to get to the source of that see if I felt ever now had a baby
for experience. I don't I've got any quieter in my own mind, but it was a beautiful thing,
Do I didn't recently in England with gravity
was hardy, Dreyer novelist, haughty and again, like you say you gotta these, you gotta these church,
I dunno. Maybe the universe works it out in both cases. Nobody was around. I just I don't you roll up in a weird way. You have your profound moment at the edge Lawrence or Thomas Hardy and and its
I don't know if it's it's very helpful in some weird way. Oh yeah,
not me, I went to lower to see the grave, a Jack Kerouac Vienna and does he have
for whatever that was worth, but there's a lot. I would think I think so I do think so, but by taking you are taking your relationship to Kerouac there on your but likely you. This is a romantic idea right it.
Rachel, romantic idea to go and to have it because, like I've been in those situations where you like, I want to feel this thing. Yes here, but all to me, like you know, well what you feel if you were tat feeling
kind of points out, his is loss. Yes,
it would agree, but yet I would agree but but also processing. That is good, but you are also honouring you. Yes, I'm your honouring this passionate you're, not gonna, write but you're not going to that you're not going to become them now. You're, not gonna, become either there's party. The sort of like this will feed me. I think it does and I think this kind of kiss the hem of their spiritual garment. How can you say thank you? I say you I think you are. You are saying. Thank you this. You know this this movie
about sort of in a way honouring my parents without, but well without sin,
self righteousness was sort of Pope face. This suggests I wanted to
they to them, and I wanted to say to the nine year old me well done. Thank you very much very imperfect, but you know you this simple
phrases rings with making. It will, when you Bulgaria, when trouble finding life difficult they look at. Somebody is annoying. The budget is out, and you say when you find a way of saying
You are doing your best and so
is everybody else? That's what you somehow have.
I gave in your mind. I wanted to go back and find out and understand that I was doing my best, my parents with doing the best, because I think this basically an enormous
of guilt by having left you know what this is seen in a fit
where the kid is crying on the sole right of leave. Bow you didn't
regarding area that was also don't go. I do want to grow up. I dont know, except exactly what you would just talking there, which is a sort of sent for these Phil loss, how
we deal with. How do we deal loss of identity, loss of family loss of nation and then critically the I'll know of the loss of loved ones? You know- and you know this- this was the
Guinea, the wrenching us into this, be you know me,
with this cross over the moment you like, when you know that Santa isn't real, if gave clear responses answers in your life,
and so this idea that the grandparents just won't want gonna be around. You know that as a way of organizing the human condition I wanted already to go God, please the costs to be another way of doing this. Does narrower? Can you please give me it can be in any avenue could be religious? It could be you give me an epiphany. Give me a vision, should tell me that I'll see him again. Sometimes we are all, though, be a play so that we can talk or
or tell me how to understand what all seem like?
try remarks for a long time about, but they'll be in your heart. You'll carry them with you everywhere. I remember a friend of mine put his arms round me. The morning after my father died and was in a state of course in the gallery, and I was forty six Wilhelm thing you know my mother
but died two years previously and remember why, my dear friends, who driven made faster than any car drove me and my wife when they got the coal we just been at the hospital.
You just got back two thousand and eight hospital rang and they said your father
is very ill. Would you care to re attend, though,
a phrase that we advocate a written question. So meta gonna find my sisters, I think he's going you could we go?
we get there now this friend drove me, I swear to God. We leaped over
I mean it. We nearly died getting baby. I got there, we got there and I was there and he
we were able to let him go and- and I blow said you can go down a lovely, very much an you heard that death rattle and
it was an amazing thing to see the next morning, I'm still trying to process. It must have got their just to light my brother's just flying in from Australia. That day, that's gonna be
renders thing to be. You know on that
side, that Fuckin Vienna, who here
dip arrivals whole, but
friend, put his arms round? Many said you know it's all
right and our memories screening age, not far cheer. You know and I went outside and I just howled and howled, and how about didn't Wilson? I didn't want to do with my body lay down, and I knelt and I couldn't. I couldn't even literally put myself in a physical position that dealt with this. What this thing goes, there was being dragged out of me, which is just the impossibility of accept,
in that light was gonna happen. I had been incomplete denial about it.
Through the holy headlong country and an eye just as far as our
and so it should always be solved. It can be solved it because if we get the thing when we get our new engagement at the thing we get. What I went out and just the beginning of that was back in belfast- was some
how that was the beginning of you no gun. Why does it begin its like films like Frankenstein? Is that where a man is trying to
great something euro to defeat death, its films like Hamlet, where it's all about what the fact does this mean and and and
You know that this sum somehow. I wanted to go back and sort of look at the moment where the
kid was surrogate. Well here we go here. We go. Let's go human medicine.
Oh human I've done nine years, I've been fine, I'm all settled. I thought it was fine and no, it isn't gonna be so, let's get ready to cope with all the all the the sultan
princess. They may be right, but was fascinating of what that was
an amazing journey that you just described to me, but like in the film
after he has that fit that when he
does have whatever
that nine Euro version of understanding and accept
of the change. You know it's armed and end. There is a tangible.
And said he understands his parents, fear after that thing that happened in the street, India that, like that you're, no matter how much you have just grandparents or anything else, you can feel that day,
yeah yeah yeah cause, and that thing that was what was so true times like that.
it's true in the western sky, somebody was true on the streets there and in those societies. If somebody said you know, they're coming, for you know, they're gonna
There is no question, that's not it s not like that. Isn't like a line from a movie, that's horrible or full in the middle of the night, you're! No or not, they don't even knock it's just it, sir, and
there's a litany of unit. Thirty seven hundred dead in those thirty is trouble himself. But, like you listening to you, they, it seems that whenever this question is where you know you're sort of
your sensitivity and and and your uh. You know disquiet spiritually.
Like I always sensitive about you- and I watched my- u- I there-
there was an earnest to the trajectory
your career. There was an ambition to it, but there is always
the concern to me as I am,
this guy's ever going to find it
yeah. Well, I think come
my mother said you know, you could never sit still that's what she said whenever sit still, and I thought
the hard at emotionally in Spiritualizing, yeah, psychologically yeah. I think, but I think, there's something in what you say about a sort of them something at the meeting.
Of a given that sort of sort of aggrandize itself has blocked tilling turning people do in different ways, tat being a secret
I can tell you tat you, and I know what it is yeah exactly you now. I suppose you know I'm
tat. I re I've read every self help book. You know under gods. The Heaven is, everybody of yesteryear arise, Niagara,
me. There's something to seek aim is one thing about seeking. I get a lot of ways to do.
Wait here, but if you ve got that existential h where you, how can always is not enough what it's not about?
Don't not about being enough! I think it's about. How do you think you you do this very work as you like? You kind of live in the process. You live in, sometimes the rage you live in, but I think what is for me it's like how do I feel like in Ino, okay with myself right? Yes, yes, I guess and where, where more often than not you can take
breaths or moments. Ok, it's or hours. Where enough
things going on, but nothing. You know whether, as a kind of positive,
Middle of your experience not tried the minute I choose doing meditation for a while. I can quieted down, but to what end here I don't know. Why is that
Ok now let me start by their their meditate for fifteen minutes and then ice
my Dane, and how is that helping me while I think it
The law allows other things to come in and indeed I guess it's a kind of its a mental tidy. It's a kind of it. I guess somebody described to me interesting me as you have been on a retreat. I said no, I haven't heard he fancied going at our treat twice a day. You know I am meditation refugees gun. Stop
for a bit working for you, I got well. I think you give the mind arrest, you know you don't sleep in doing it.
The twenty is like E.
Just another thing, nothing with a mantra, not I mean at high anymore. I I I would say that its essential to me. I've done that it works for me all the time. I think that there is no bad medicine.
Patients? However? I think that sometimes the best ones are the ones where that racing mind has been talking the whole time, but you do slow it down. Hide me. It's helpful finance helpful. I can't do that. Were Qatar book I get three earlier undesirably guitar. Are you gonna do not realise that nothing else is you know, Yo Yo, Yo Yo urine flow. Exactly
but like you I mean it has to be something I mean
when you do we Belfast right. So what is it
the aid. Is England, Syria's your family
made up where you treated like yeah right,
he's irish months. Were you when how did you lose the accent? Does it come back when you go to Ireland? No, it doesn't. I think that the young we yet
are too young and also to to kind of I feel,
ass though some how that that I've never been one of those actors are no lot. Do you are who assume you're in another place? You stop being the other carry you know, you pick it up
it's. You start sounding like where you are, and I felt ass though I
to sort of finding a new person that wasn't that wasn't because I
so bereft from the attachment under this, the security of being
in the extended family ya the
the once we as a family we went in ourselves, we were, I think, quiet protected. We wanted to keep, I had done, we were living in it,
They still had a lot of families, with sons in the army, a lot of them who are over where we just come from a lot of them who are up. You know under the caution terms, the violence lotta people who died. So we wanted to be
quiet released. I did you know, and I think it was super tougher. My mother, she go very bad postnatal depression off to ship my system. There is a lot of
family dramas in Vienna. My brother, a lotta economist. She said about my.
Brothers, a wonderful guy city, he rolled round the playground by
which had met January's in a fight every day, but he found his way, but we just quiet
down. It became a b, I became solitary and I started to say less and then, when I started are ultimately across to three is I just wanted to fit in sea start sending a little bit invasion than a lot english than you you? You know you.
Just get on with that, and you ve required what you think is in relative terms and orphaned, take source of position
you maintain when all the family come. I won't go sounded english now, so well, I'm here now you know me and I'm trying to fit in
what about nine ten eleven twelve years old and everything,
and when it is reacting start Willie Acting starts
but about sixteen? I guess what I knew
Vienna we had three. I went to the Korea's interviewed school of comrades
the school yes, but yet published goofy. You guys opera
and dumb. They said three key areas of
the guilty here in writing, insurance,
british rail or the army what're, you fancy a civil I'd like to be an actor and they had to be a piece of paper and which is one to one side of aid for the opening sentence was allowed an empty theatres, a lonely place. You no longer hear the sound of applause. It was basic. Eighty percent of the profession are out of work at any one time. Is it really what you want to do? They have prepared their prepared. Clearly they clearly backdating. Had I to seventy seven they were sent Jesus, don't don't send any more united to the circus here, any more that so, but I was loving. School plays an amateur dramatics and beginning to realize that term there were places that you could go to.
learn to do this thing and of course I ran to it because put play
families plays work were groups of people where, on I felt
happy and in those groups those larger extended group some, but he seems like for a guy like you giving this. You know this quest of whatever it is that you
Nor do we have that family thing but to to have a full characters
which we simply like Shakespeare, we're all the answers are given due yeah
yea that that, like you know when to immerse yourself in that year,
I've been here almost like tranche from transformative Iraq,
but this you know there was something about fit filling filling. What would have been a life where you plugged into every dimension of your family and that would be totally immersive and I
basing had gone into myself to the point where, in my, unless my parents regularly,
I'm done with my brothers, at whatever brainy friends run where, if you have any friends you know they were really worried about me here and I didn't call. I didn't see it that way. I saw it s kind of protecting myself, but yes, when I became interested in acting
the focus even I when I look back at it now, it was on on the label focus here. The local am germ. Guy guy gave me a box of copies of a magazine called plays in place. I read them encyclopaedic the amount for probably a good twenty is in this business. I could have told you who played the third bottler in the fourth episode of cold
Some television, Ivy Ed, you know I could have,
I told you he was in every production, the National Theatre in England, through the nineteenth sixtys, when John Lenin's play was on there in his own right nitrites, sixty six, a triple builder
Lawrence Olivier presented and they all showed up at the old VIC enough and then Antony Hopkins. His first thing Antony Hopkins, undue studying Lawrence Olivier going on, did you see them live all those guy? Now I didn't I didn't, but I was told about the new when Antony Hopkins was announced, they said, lazy,
gentlemen remembered Lawrence, Olivier, was was a God allege indeed run the National Theatre in England. He was about to play in a mood entitled the dance of death by Sternberg, dire psychological, swedish drama and
comes on worse job in the world. Let his judgment, I'm afraid that, due to the indisposition of Ceylon Livia goes the crowd, the pot of EDGAR in tonight's,
but what of the dance of death will be played by Antony Hopkins for whom again Robin Hood areas? So I was so I would
I have found my outlet I'd found my out that in Shakespeare and your people, the air and while an Shakespeare was it because for me was a detective hunt. I didn't understand it. We'd never heard of it. I didn't know how to say it, and yet it in the irish bidding me that loves language. It got the has on the back of my neck going, so I you know, I got my show or combs coat on as it were, and I said to the school with clarity and a determination. I never done before this not do extra work. Will you let me off on Wednesday's, please sort and see to madness. I can see Albert Finney playing Macbeth in the afternoon when,
the National Theatre and if I q up and get the students to combine the students and by sea direction. The fraga who reside BBC Mister Finney, very very close up to see the whites of his eyes- and this is Shakespeare of courses, says
but without would be mind broadening when you are, I don't care what you're gonna do the extra S eyes, so I was like:
I was so focused on so
King Richard recently that maybe with well Psmith about the Williams is, which is a wonderful felony ass. They are all brilliant in a well is fantastic that determine,
the nation to you know, go
from humble beginnings too
it is a long way down. The track was for me something
got it but had with it what I love about it was that I had apps
The lady, no expectation it didn't matter to me is nevertheless knows was no all gonna win an Oscar. All gonna win a shirt Lawrence Libya, while we're gonna play this part would have asked. Yes, I will
but be in this world. I wanna be Indiana, be doing Shakespeare. I'd I'd! I don't care. If I'm watching it than does a great book called hamlets dress.
Sir about it.
a guy who taught Shakespeare to octogenarian in New York. It's a beautiful book and
Childhood has him staying overnight and sleeping in being some campet in and they should be if it really and Canada, and for me, that would have been fined to just watching just watching would have been fine.
I just knew that I'd anyway, I didn't go to Heaven
I found this guy's work and when I found the theatre film
still like there was still a lightweight first, somebody like you, it's ok, it's like the there's, a whole universe, ya think
was, it seems, unending, yes, yeah, yeah yeah I did so and so our concepts of speaking on my own particular rock in space through that it also addresses all the questions at anybody has about life. Why
Over and over again it does and does not accept that you, you know you go through various. Is it just I'll just asks really better questions. It is, is the elder you, after coming through a guy, I looked at all they have done and I know I know I really good cookery acre good question.
That's why I'm meditating and I'm sitting under a tree where the age large was getting a Shakespeare aged and deliver in case I miss up. Well, you know what all of course the main refined, expensive doing hamlet was too. If you look at is the most bread famous speech in Riyadh. Literature, perhaps to be or not to be right is the questions. Are a man apparently considering suicide? What is wise life worth living and he lays out the reasons why perhaps with the dollar
whips and scorned by reaches fortune. It is not.
So he asked the question to be or not to be, where we do by the end of the play. When he knows he's gonna die
and an horatius as you don't have to take part in these rigged jewel by the way you know we can get you out of it. You don't have to die. We know they're gonna, that's it said it's a fixed fight. You will die,
Annie and an omelet says not a whit? We defy all Gary
There is a special providence in the fall of a sparrow. If it be now does not to come. If it be not
the come. It will be now if it be not now, yet it will come, let B.
so the big answers, leaving alone they leave it alone to be or not to be. You know why don't think over think here. It's all rigged varies between its fixed fight. Life in life is a fixed fight, the promoters of the only ones who we're gonna walk away from this with any cash here, that's amazing.
I think that movie. Why we look. It just seems like
good, I'll talk to benefit combat yesterday,
You know that guy I do yeah he's a wonderful idea is, but you might, the young gun
listen, I'm too old to lower the tooth, and I can genuinely say good on em we're going to get the idea, but he didn't go to the same school. You went to the other school right. He went away.
We went to Harrow. Yet how do they? Don't you didn't go to actual school? I then he went to land rather alarmed unknown, Roddy Veneer and the other one I'm in the other. One right now wait bite, but by the time
you get there. You already obsessed with Shakespeare. You're already doing it, the authority engage in an almost a sort of an obsessive endeavour. Yes, dear you're, they must have been like what they must remain open arms liking, or we got a sixteen year old he's. My closing his mind over Shakespeare, however, is that happened in the seventies? Well, I like the way you know one of the things that really drove me that that the Belfast movies are partly about as I wanted to understand, and I wanted to bring back that, I wanted to bring back
Shakespeare to my mom and dad too that house the dinner.
books in, I wanted, because I knew they could perfectly well understand an experienced and have a view on it.
Didn't want all the things they get in the way between them working class people, and so
All the latest or high are, I think, that's what that movie did my camera
right right under the fifth Henry the view that was, I think where, where
the story had such a sort of virtue to go back to story structure. It had the kind of sure you know the great sports movie, OC, yellow,
and our time with it, which experts I can't. I can't I'm ahead around. You know. Sometimes it's like eight. What what would the peace
cute little understanding is is is sometimes a wasted. Time went when intuitive
experience will respond to it is fine. You know if you like,
classical music. A kind of I don't know anything about it. I don't know anything about it either. I made one opera film, and that is really the only opera. I know when they asked me to do it. I just listen to it obsessively obsessively assess these are talking about the magic flute, but nothing
else about Mozart? Sometimes I feel bad
his people, I know, love it and say I got you missing something, but it just
doesn't I don't find my way into that means of expression and that's ok, but some times I am,
just overwhelmed by something sublime that I can't explain in it
peace that I might hear and that that's fine too so we caught all
Ike everything you sure I know but like you be, I guess I always think
visit my issue. This is my relative to your point,
you're kind of a disk discontent or discuss
murder or feeling of
incompletion or whatever the fuck it is is like. I always
Do you like it up now, Missus SAM diagnoses gotta be a depth here.
if I don't get it might give I if I see something is complicated or it seems like it whether its Glasgow me
I know classical music missing so because I don't know anything about the context of it. I do anything about the composer magnets right sounds pretty. It will give you an example of what, what in another feel that you are very familiar, that nobody in the film you and what you have thrown the benefits and the other new and the June Campi me any in its wake at the beginning of my died. So this is placed in a very
a poetic way
and then I watch all story and its provocative and its and it's a sparse.
curly of a piece of art and is clearly poetry- and I understand the feelings it's giving me- but when I see something like that, I always assume someone knows what's going on. But what for you
had been like in music or some other area of your life to go. Oh, no! This is everything
the standing and I'm the one who's getting. I'm the one he's getting I'm having a you looking for from that experience from Shakespeare LAW in a piss in a moment, if that's a wood where, where it
comes together. Sublime thing: your love, Uganda. That more time is that with me, as I think I
the fact that, from everything like eyes,
you a joke about that. Like every book, I have a cell phone book, but you're, not
of hope of any book to me as a self help, I'm I'm reading a lead, Settlin Biography- and I have to see myself in here, there's going to be able to raise them. That's gonna make my life better, so I'm sort of half looking for that type of catharsis from anything
and but as I get older and I get more intellectually confident I can have my own opinions- and I argued with, but with combat yesterday about his character. Like I said like you know, because of what happened to that characterise mica, He D,
that guy was about the change of mind. How do you know that
the guy befit every year we argued about it.
but you know I had coffins do that imagines: gonna sound pretty dumb.
He knew what was going on that night. I would say that that's a veto
very gonna, be grand about, say, that's a function of odd. Isn't it so right? If you, you might have observed busy, drew bracket, quote, missed something, but the resultant
questions may be Vienna. Quite elevating an interest journalism, gaiety speaker that everything that you gotta wait to happen. He s idea it my own insecure,
guiding get it, but I did get it yeah, yeah yeah, you gotta you because you got it. You got question. This is something I was told of other parents all the time they were able to something that they had to get, and I thought that's always been a part of what driven me here. Is this high or low odd thing you know and not Vienna being and being from a work
clause background, but people assuming if they
about who. I was at some point when the Shakespeare thing had kicked in. They assumed that I was from as it were, an ivy league, universities, you're, unbend and steeped in all this stuff. When I come from the entirely the opposite direction, but I wished, without D
finishing or diluting to make. My
now specialist subject the interpretation of these stop available to all right. I believed that this was a good thing.
so there's always been this attention both way, sometimes at the higher and that Vienna an elite group. Don't want that to be the case.
At the other end of it a kind of Vienna, my money,
parents would sometimes feel as though they were ill equipped, or you know that kind of
That's too bad I salute and for us to fancy or wherever, but like you, they come and see
They came over we're an amazing trip to see hamlet in Amerika, and I got to the White House because I was involved with the Kennedy
enter on us and we got two: we got
to go in and out. I was but a lot of attributed Jack Lemon, who is president, is the clan sincere and dumb and as we were going in your appreciate this, having seen this film as we were going in my mother tongue me and said my God, this is a long way from New York Street, which is where the extreme right up, but that in that night we had a premiere. The film Jack Nemo was their Charlton Heston Tony Bennett Camera man at all. Let me mazes sort of group of of people and my father, a ton of drama students,
come on my father. The areas like two o clock in the morning talking about Hamlet means period. I e now has an opinion about right. You know a basic things like you, you know you look at play like Hamlet, man is visited. By goes to his father says I was murdered, Unita revenge me. It was your uncle here. Why does he not do it? You know, and unlike the
basic question influence in the middle. The play. Ok, so he's now spent three acts proving that he did kill him so now he knows he comes upon him. Praying that develop
murder of his father's in front of me he's got his back to me. Praying now. I could kill him. Why doesn't he can this? The question you have to ask my father had
you know it was was sat with, sat that talking to twenty year old, who were equally passionate back about
question in hamlet, but you might say it's question about me. You know
You were talking earlier about what people know when to leave for and sometimes ghetto
obviously motors incredible thing to even consider any right. It might be a sort of righteous act. You might say in this drama is still very difficult for human beings to come to that conclusion or steel. First, steel inserted into flesh is not an easy thing to do and ethanol. Why so? Nobody could be a copy? I think the musical version steel into flesh, not illegal things, etc, with the same kind of delivering it had. I am very much higher became problem
it's amazing man. I mean, I don't know like a in
you still enjoy doing Shakespeare. I do I, but I don't enjoy, is the again the Sty study rarefied thing: they can continue to go. Well, I siberia there needs to be. Why can't why english? I cannot, but they tried to do that for ever in very different ways. Exactly so, maybe maybe I should just get get over that on some time, some kind of resistance,
not disappoint people who expect me to be some sort of guru about that and lavishing in my guru, rudeness, aware I'm just a guy, you practised, a lot
play the guitar. I do a lot of Shakespeare practice. Disarming the exponent Shakespeare, in my view. No nobody, it may mean enthusiast most certainly do by as much as an artist
as an actor because of I think
what I am identifying, as is this, what we talked about it
I mean, do you like when you do it, even if you do a monologue, even though you do know it, do you feel it yeah
you, what you said earlier on is exactly right. You get older, I mean a play that I'd buy, play that I went to see. We did it
school. When I was sixteen years old and it was one of the first Shakespeare's, I went to see kingly area and in the programme opened it and in this kind of blasted font like it was like Mount Rushmore. Writing was a phrase from the play.
when we are born. We cry that we come to this great stage of food soon.
Now that hit me between the eyes Dunaway at. Why should I mean anything to me, I'm sixteen years old, but
I don't know why it hit me, but it did so not six
He is old and when I read that when I read that line when I feel that Libya does something very different to me, so now I'm a riving if I'm allowed, if the universe sort of sets it before me in some way, I'm a rising at the point where I would like to do. I would like to pay
that part? I would like to experience that I would like to end.
ADI those lines because it from another line of Shakespeare, Jake reason as you like it. He talks about
to someone who suggest he's become some of the something of a command in the abbey says. Yes, I have bought my experience.
He added a mighty price for so I would say yes, I have
my experience and now I can probably be no go for that.
For that King Lear. How do I find the way to inhabited, but but
it's. I was challenge it with you
The Y Y you doing something wide now. Sometimes it's good enough that you're an artist this you practice,
What you do offer it up when you
the vessel anyway, listen for other people to consider kingly assembled becoming to it for the first time, sharing that century riding a good deal naughty world and further
people like gods by fifty of the Nazis, rather interesting, the third act, but in the second I draw the boring and then you, I guess we're full despairing forth, at which always mistake should be fit, that last year's gas, exact learning a very exact yes, oh so, but
I kind of now I'm rather gingerly around us talking today about a friend above a great friend of my bride, bless at an actor in a number of my films. These different assume every week I met
take with him every way we walked the dogs.
Long time does not work in so much these days. No noise ready to do that, but we talk all the time, he's a big big boxing
in a great aficionados of acting battles, gaudy talks about boxing and and seven fight, seven great fights that you ve gotten you seven fights when it can all come together and he feels the same way about acting
you're, like the U N, between those ones, will you give everything every you'd just spent where it's me? I got him between those you'll
I can dive your box. Clever azure find a way to survive through it. You might enjoy sunny I'd love, you punches, but basically you gotta get
for the seven that your capable of, and so you know, I feel that the
me: that's been a sort of useful met foreign, I'm kind of
hey Julie walking around
King Lear and and the emotion into that, because now I know what it costs in my wife would tell you about
the about? What I would call the bleed bleed is the way in which, even with the most sensible, I leave it at work. Kind of attitude at artistry. The bleed into your own life is so tax.
But I'm the eyes, I'm the least kind of oh it get. You know I became so dark because those playing the dock part, but it happens, it just happens. You it's like practice. You pray,
The guitar you get better in the guitar. You practice playing a dock part because you you do it lets me lying yeah yeah. That's why you're making my my recent comedy.
My new, our I direct,
get up and go like this. I ran in Portland Oregon. I did our fifty minutes and a guy from
my my opening act. He comes after biogas
God. I was grave.
Like I did it, I shall give you gotta do so you did the sad and if it was brilliant, then the sad neither be taken. Some of the sad home with you are young. You gotta, while enabling Oreo riding with out why
whether you like it when you, I don't want it wisely
get because I'm not registering a quite like. I can't see myself
There's no way, I'm looking at the world. My sad I'm not like debate,
shaded with you. You know I mean I'm trying to you too, to process things that
dark and heavy, by nephew,
that's kind of my job should not a song and dance man? No are you trying to do? The big work makes our energy and in young is no. You need to do you know. The old college Galbraith thing of the just stick your brand of above
Will you join your sorrows- and I say this: for this too- has amounted to about year. This film balances it well did
This film, as it is, is that somebody said to me or hop raking in hot, warm right but definitely operating there. So then, you cannot get away from you, gonna go but heartbreaking in a way that everybody can relate to having to move having to confront crisis having to change people passing YO there. You know that this is not his eye
unnecessarily, are breaking in its heartbreaking,
in a lot of ways from the nine year old perspective. So you do know the debt
kids going to be okay here, yeah right yeah. So it's all tempered with that and I think a lot because so much of it was shot from his
the view that there that innocence is, is fully felt, and so you do whatever heartbreaker darkness or is there it's it's it's it's real
kind of held up
bye, bye there by the spirit of of that kid. Yes, yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah, and in that sense it makes it kind of a beautiful thing and remind it sort of like when you were talking about the way,
he's dead together that either there is a feeling of a twofold movie in their bit. Isn't there what cha to find these snapshots evolve?
vulnerability and also of these moments way literacy. The kids face light up and understand that some other significant peace
of human understanding he now he
is now signed up for so it's I'd fell watching the kid
that, you were watching or almost watching the beginning of bruises appear. You know, which is the giver. We all knew he was gonna end up you now doing Henry during a debate of everyone in the room is like these guys can be our greatest Shakespeare, inheritors of our time, like one
What do I do? Detention there to desert? Do you feel like that's your family? Yes, this was a huge
huge, huge part of it that the term, if you wanted to talk about
family than you needed to have people in there with whom you had yeah. You know, lewd, not just Judy
almost everybody on that street I worked with before we gave like twelve kids
from the Royal Academy, a dramatic god where I am president their first job. Hey, that's family, two acres, I'm very involved with that Vienna, where you, when I look at them. I see myself back at that time and yes-
Oh so there was another. Was an an author autistic family, all of the crew. You know half of them. We work with before our air Molucca cinematography visit. You knows a great great friend, and and so that
to go into this film, that the creative family had to bleed into the real phone right so so
In closing one went: when are you gonna do Lear? Did you wait ten years her eye?
No, I don't know what you're advice did you see olivias I did
see that yes, it and that the he did it early and then he did. It may be too late. I think ah, and give the thing
Is it not very rewarding part? Many actors say cause he's an easy, as some would say, will ease and egotistical idiot in the first act, and
learns understanding an insight only when it's too
light and when he has been diabolically, I you know cruel to his children who in turn ungrateful. So it's a
somebody described as somebody John dried described it? As you know these least good play his greatest piece of work.
this dramatically it isn't nearly a thrilling as Macbeth which got real thriller plot. You don't have the nice jealousy, revenge, jealousy plot
a fellow. If you don't have the revenge drama of hamlet, you ve got a silly
the old man who decide
you know what I'm gonna leave the job and leave the job. You know what it is all you gotta do, all you gotta. Do you just gotta just got that lead to stay with you all you gotta do you're just gonna. Tell me you love me publicly network term, towing, I'm serious, I'm serious, you not getting the fucking kingdom until
No, I'm really serious. Tell everybody how much you fucking love me! Well then fuck you well fuck, you fuck off their fuck right off,
the Hungarian you think, really that sit mature king. You were gonna, give up and that's it and that's it and in a minute you silly fuck. The
entire nation is gonna crumble because worms in the drawing rooms of the rich and famous, unfortunately waves itself out he's gonna involved
by the end of this play, the powers yeah sure in this country is gonna change. You gonna ruin the lives of so many people.
Because you're an irrational, immature, our sole Vienna, and then you say
The original feel sorry for this guy haven't, while not
not so easily, so that's the guy, that's our hero, Nassau, heroism and then, finally, and then and then, and then in the fourth act, with with with Gloucester having crossed
has lost his eyes, lears loss,
his mind and his daughter and his home and these clothes that's when he gets to say when we are born. We cry that we have come to this great stage of fools. Well
it seems like the challenge. Then that you may be up to
is the challenge of creating an apathetic Leir enough enough without without
without, I think it's your exactly right. They exactly right.
Finding the weight of the audience have. Yes, some empathy, understanding, not necessarily sympathy and not to do
love me, love me acting up front grant, but to just find a way to cause it's not so on raising in a sense to do it like Olivier, did drew the second one was cheating
because he was all this fuck yeah. This is key. I think this is key. I think you need a visa
Skype release this so much of a kind of the citizen.
of him. As you know, captain of industry still got it right. You're still get it off all men that he has already Zack exactly so you know yet cause the ridiculous things. As you still gonna call me, king by the woman, I'm done splitting up the company, but
You gotta call me and I'll do you know, I'm not I'm already Monday's know them and there's no other choose are coming. Second half a Tuesday work all the way through the Thursday lunchtime, and then you know I'm gone in those hours. I will. I will do an ear you can all do you know what I'm gonna do you gotta be involved? If you know what I'm talking about, but I'm still king and not of course, when did you know the kids go? Well, that's lovely dad know now what
police as soon as the serves as soon as its side. I think it's got you gotta. Do it now next couple years, I'm feeling that that
should do when he also has the rage when he thought of it. I think that for some reason I feel vector
you, you always have access to that the effective, but rage and sort of danger. I suppose he he the thing that, of course he is so outraged by
is the the ingratitude that that I should know how how sharper than a serpents tooth it is to have a thankless child. I
gave you all to it.
He replied in good time. You gave it. However, I also heard men men what I wore a guy, what a guy, what a guy, what a governor Cossiga Minis, it's a bastion of male insecurity.
You guys go and you know. Maybe it is the time to do it as well.
pussy, we'll see what yeah whirling around wiping the thing is is taking its time. Those guys take a hit. Well, you know, did did this one, the price,
he pays for personal knowledge and self aware is so titanic. You know that's, ultimately what is tragic
and then and then, of course, just the again back to the basics,
Having done all that, the one thing that he understood was that the girl who refused to say how much she loved him in public is the one who is most like him as stubborn as him. That's why she couldn't do it.
and he she's the one he loses at the at the at the most higher moment. So back to yeah yeah, you know and then Shakespeare. Does this thing
about loss due says one word five times about: will she come back? Never never, never, never, never! It's as if it's like a black eye, rivet going into a piece of wood. You know this sort of this clanging admiring bell of certainty.
the depth. That's what I felt when I was nine years old leave in Belfast. That's what I felt the morning after my dad passed away is just the running up against a brick wall of never never, never. Never. Never! Yes, you gotta go! Do Lear
Maybe you just did it? Maybe they're really only other. Maybe that's all we need well, I'm glad we we, when we took his journey, is really a very nice talking. You yeah great, took me thanks man thanks
that's it PA fire de work,
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some dairy lakes.
The monkey. Getting.
Transcript generated on 2021-11-18.