« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 1290 - Guillermo del Toro

2021-12-23 | 🔗

Guillermo del Toro believes in one universal truth: We all get to a moment in our lives when we see ourselves for who we really are. That belief not only guides his own life, it guides the characters through his many films. Guillermo and Marc talk about how he takes on the dark forces of the world in his movies, including his latest, Nightmare Alley. They also discuss his friendship with fellow Oscar-winning directors Alejandro González Iñárritu and Alfonso Cuarón, his expansive collection of oddities, and his strong identification with outsider characters and monsters.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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the passion, the wisdom and genuine curiosity that is Anthony Bourdain parts, unknown, listen wherever you get, your pod casts yeah. Let's do the show Guy all right. Let's do this. How are you what the fucker is, what the fuck bodies, what the FUCK mix what's happening a mark mare- and this is my podcast. Welcome too but it goes on it contains is to go on now. It's He was that, no matter what is coming down, what kind of shit show is happening. This thing just it's it's it's a constant The ship keeps move in every week new times a week- and you know what it's been great I've been enjoying my show. Lately. I've been enjoying this show. Rightly there ve been a lot of great conversations. That's the one
bump me out about this new strain? Is people freaking out and out we have to go back to suit. I will, if that's what people do, but it's so much better talking people in person, although I did I did, learn how to design pretty fuckin good got some pretty amazing conversations. You know what whatever happens happens, but conversation that I'm sharing with you today Gee AIR Toro was fucking. Awesome, I mean, I've just been some great talks here. Great talk for me that mean something may have done thousands of these early I was in place fourteen hundred whatever it is, and though ask but weeks had just been- lively in invigorating an exciting and engaged very satisfying when that happens, this: is my social life you're witnessing my social life, my social life is hanging around with one or two people and I hang out for a very focused
our plus with strangers who are interesting couple times a week. That's my social! I'm, not complaining, not complaining at all, but I did see: they'll Torres New Movie, the nightmare Alley Movie and I loved it really seems to be him kind of focusing. On human stories, but there is a fantastical element what is more, I know what you will they will grounded in sort of a nasty com Pretty culture and also suggestive of of sweet suggestion of metaphysics, but not much, its most to a kind of revealing the bull shit. The gripped the car the hustle- and I thought it was great- and I watched This is one those conversations where I was or what to do. I look I've seen this of water, and I think maybe a couple of his other moves. That remember pans labyrinth, but what
it did do knowing. I was gonna talk to him was I wouldn't watched his very first film Kronos one turned out to be an amazing choice. But to my own horn, buddy. I do want to choose from there's a lot of movies of his that I dont know I am familiar with his work though, and I do like his work but to watch the first move the alongside of the most recent movie you- sort of sea the themes that he threads through. You can sort of sea, whereas vision sportive took hold- and it just became this an amazing conversation, the guy's, a great guy theirs, a few conversations that have been real life changing for me and I ain't I've enjoyed it a great deal in the movie, beautiful to, though a cab. And its engaging and the profit Consumers are awesome. He deals with it asked of characters. The heat RON. Perlman is in everything he does. I mean he did those are the Hellboy movies he's he's great director.
but what a sweet guy- and he said I can come over- a bear is house- is sort of like he's got a couple hours this letter. Just filled with weird creepy stuff man, size replicas of humans and and ban human anomalies? I showed him. The air drew free, then, print of the petty Barnum the Barnum Bailey Freak show because he there's EC He has a couple of them in false. I demand against one of this house's. What are you what it just a bit if one thing to talk to the guy really was I don't know why I'm so amazed, but open hearted tremendous conversations look. I know everyone has allowed on their minds every dates. Amazing. We get anything done at all, but there's one thing I haven't had to think about in years have a good website. I bet there
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W g. After for ten percent off your first purchase so what you guys? It was really nice, a couple friends of mine, really friends, my stopped by the other night there in town briefly for a mobile, Ill Service set dumb. That couldn't happen, because of carbon, they finally got to it sad, a sad event by you, you know that the passing is like a yourself back now and and seeing them in a long time, and these were people that new me back when they took care of me. This couple they love we anti HANS however, I am These two, I hardly knew me I've known craggy, since in New York since the late eighties and his wife is well, they were married then, but she I've just known them forever. I mean how long is let's ninety ninety two thousand two thousand and ten, two thousand wow,
thirty years. She's man, that's nuts, that is nuts, it's just. I guess it's just part of aging these to take care of me when I was wasted. I stayed there house when I was in New York and in they had moved out here in that beautiful House ISIS, paid their house and I'd go out get wasted in America, Craig you gotta come pick me up, wants it and they just had the ideas are being. They had twins these twin girls Ruby endow and or tiny little babies, and I was so even in the guest room. Just remember waking up hung over and this issue tiny little babies that looked exactly the same crawling around crawling. On the couch getting on me and I resist the evening Yang of it was just astounding. Lately, I can save my ass it just so nice. If you can and you have the opportunity.
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Http, dot, com, Slash w e f. So this brings us to a gear modelled Toro again. I just want to say I thoroughly enjoyed hanging out with this guy- see good human. Intellectual, real artist and puts a lot of thought. and to every aspect of his life, mentally and emotionally, and I can feel it could feel it. So this is me talking to gear modelled Toro. The movie is nightmare, alley, it is now enjoy. I want to show you some decisions few people that appreciated, but I can you you know your Friedman. Yes, you have this No, I don't have an alarm. I love is
in terms of famous strange people towards sets the pity Barton Bunch here he determined to finally slightly grotesque in the familiar I love it I have here. I have some offers. books and out of his colleague, to collect their hearts the idea of any of the art I tried to whom I am out of her well space. how do I have only original art? I have like four poster it has had the rest is a remark. I got what some of the earth. your Gorman learning, rides on Robert Chrome, you got comic. Aren't you got gory robber, William Scrutiny, rubber way you now and is I love to look at it there? I've never been a collector may have very few pauper. Formerly here all that Ella Movement, which I like an ambush. Everyone I have very few it needs somebody
These are very big, very big here and am now exceedingly expense. Are they good for him. If I could afford a joke com- and I would have to call my oh yeah- your common Geigy blown himself up all the time you I like these paintings or why? But I remember what he was doing that stuff in New York and I think I've got books as well, but it you can't afford it. Well, maybe now I can't I mean I don't know I haven't, I haven't changed. I remember a rumour checking in early two thousand sphere too much. I was somewhat drawing them here, but a collector be Durham. Strainers rank among the lag K Nielsen. So I mean. I saw that the peace you did there with Andy Richter, awhile back movie. Why I'm through here, but that the Museum House. Well, that's! No, you don't have to do. I have a storehouse apartment there that I raised goes out about museum. Are you are you, then you have in the apartment not finally about now
for tat matter there, mom museums or my there my office now get it. I get it ready they they they keep her, gaining quarter. Well, let me put it this way right now. I think they owe me they own me more than my own them and what what is it? What is it that you are trying to a complete with this collection? You know for the last three year, I'm pretty much shrilled, I'm done you done buying things yeah, I'm done. I mean they still by the occasional failure give a graveyard here. I come comes up, try here, but that's where he had no big thing try, my men living in item a mean things. I know. If I may, I will do and I'm done with things I'm fifty eight, I'm starting to feel it. Could you how you pick up a thing is a few things here then you work at the things you realize. What does it mean anything any more anyway we're not going to do what I
but I believe that one part of the other parties I have I auction houses constantly asking where you want to sell area Amy and I said well, if you think about it, I'm allowed put together listed as a maybe these, when I ought now right, you can let it go you're in I stayed in its emotionally nobody. I actually also- and these are my train funny here- I don't do I've done some of the pieces legged I dont laid literally, I hope We have a relationship yeah like where I will, or I look at them here. I dig them down from the wall here and I look at them because I myself, Dada artist, The word is mostly because I I the straight a little Pierre and I'd like seeing how they did it, be I like saying when, for example, Richard Corbett and users alike rock band on a lot of white out to correct mistakes. Earlier on, I have met many rights on users, no corrections ha and end.
And Elizabeth Frankenstein played that I have what do you do with the frankness? I lie just look at them unseen across how we ensure surgery I tried to Vienna and how he did the texture, like he is very good when they understand me, I really got there, but that's the kind of relationship you have a craftsman relationship with India and the offence of fans, relationship with your actually talk to some then: do my dog to doctors, certain little statuary idea like I want a hands the little guy from Freaks, yeah yeah yeah right right when he opened a lie. Sale every morning I say good morning hand. If I'm going to the lower another hooking, I went over those who leaving is knocking and I tied behind. I say how do I do and it was the one that was in love with the regular vaguely? Yes, yes and I'm got made a fool, and I dont girl the elephant. Man knows in my living room, nobody that one year, nice does anyone doubts new
Is it based on the original John Merrick, and yet with very very He built an ongoing or study and its of life size lives. I knew you were who does this for you it very there's, a guy that I worked with very often there might kill and then the ethical Thomas cobbler with it and you get to the eyes steadily the life size yeah. What they do is a job that that's that make life science, but it's like wax that you know there are silly gonna pattern Magee Thy own here, and there lay so we need a guy to make our voice heard. They I The commission now and then I just Commission MIKE a couple of years ago. I married Shelly Life size ya. I have her desk. I have a manuscript of Frankenstein laid out in front of the air she's gonna organise a candle yeah. I have everything now, I'm waiting for her to come home go so what are these do the other. Many people like you do that.
contract life size, silicon, silicone, replicas of humans. Some people do it, I mean again some people doing them. A lot of the leg were black Mandela Rugen Raul area, some of them collect horrors of another. You have some of that, but I have a very and demand religion when, when the objects under the law looks like. I know where every book where I got them all clear car, which is, I don't know how many years all them on. ten years ago I I love my car until the day. My ok, we're gonna go here. Yeah I get attach shipping's hi, guys, don't have as many things but there's a few things I I've gotten attached to some them I guess well, there's some Ellen of the advent of its own,
magical object, but they did this sort of Lisbon. The talisman neither does have a power in its really do have to you. Yet they do I do. I do believe that I will, even though one hundred percent here, I think that you, and the other thing is. Does it inspire you I'm if it like that No friends that have the times that the late, though the collectibles I'm when they have been in warehouses, Finally, why women and men in the box that I dont understand we added to understand so you everything you. She is in point site, so you can engage nothing, and these are the things that defines your life to remain arrays, unmarried and, for example, I can keep a model kid for fifteen years. And then one day I ought. Finally, I won T get out unpainted. Why are you so you put together what what what models car this plan, nor mostly earthly figures, the leg long chain, is my brother for Christmas. You're gonna do
on chinese model, a model whoever he is with us, open bog trees sculpted way, I like a jiffy agar here, and this is why you gotta glued together near you, gotta gluten. You lived together them put debase it. Do they are these high and models? Are they just like any old days, like my adamant that they are your ask it? Ok, I have one or do they have been one off yeah when people show the egg the ground of the enough teeth like they show something they modeled on their computer agony. I been Amazon. Would you please his friend one from India and sometimes a brain did I pay for the item. I bent Is that how you started creatively? a guy who painted well, I did sort of binding models when I was very young kid, Anne and I'd like to, but I was already a drawing on the skull being. Am writing stories out of it all of the day was way. It's funny because he started in big
So I was competing when my brother elder brother, my elder brother as the one. What I'm corner was good at drawing yeah. I said I will draw better than another. I fell in love with it. I pillar that withdrawing scalding mammoth, hammering away kissing her family it's three rather someone's lawyer and what Mexico, you grow while her you ve been here. While I mean it well, I've been coming to LOS Angeles every year and my life, since I was three really why, why so young lovers heavier relatives? No, no, my my my father and my mother decided to take us to Disneyland in my Lucy C c. I am. We waited overcoming every year, and I love. I love those under thy love. How many LOS Angeles there are here when people say I don't like you, I said you know I, like you how can you like it's it's very hard to generalise yeah? the agenda you wanna, do you want to feel some grid?
I feel Zambia. Reality I mean you don't go due to run dry run you I'm gonna, do Molly will you go somewhere else, does go downtown, go further than downtown Little Korea and the little dog kill. You can go to New Navy and you can actually see the apocalypse happening in yes, I'm accurately in some areas there is a look, is not an accident, this city, his is nor anyone the other interesting idea, I you know, I watch, I watch a new movie and I thought it was great and then I I watch Kronos bikes. I kind of book ended and I've seen your scatterings of movies that you ve made him between the out all of them, but day was Sure thing though I chose to together yeah within forty eight hours. course of each other S, of course, in terms of their the evolution of themes? Yes, and envy the the ultimate success. I know as two movies of of of
humanizing monsters and then Elvis and now we have monster humans that are somehow somehow sympathetic is one that will be a curious exercise. I wonder if I mean I wonder if I think that I can do in my head body, which one do you see Kronos on this one tat, because, Obviously, there is commonalities in team here I'm commonalities in some style. While you hit me this morning that day the commonality, and also, I guess, the the the sympathetic monster is seems to be something that kind of move through a lot of it near them, stand that will know even in this. Is this goes counter to a lot of what makes them wire nor according to to their honour, but I'm one of the things in a new Phil Yasser Arafat. We we wanted to make it a gardener portrait we didn't want to judge the guy one percent you when what he does and what everybody dies. But ultimately we were not imposing our advice.
On fall or am I know, We drive doing glued. Really if an humanity and away he is released by finding out the truth of who he is and then, while bears great ending. An amending that was quite frankly that was the north star. For us, we said: the whole movies problem to those less than two minutes? It really now what I mean. I saw this ugly and I dont I didn't see the original. You wrote this. What your partner, yes met, my wife and your wife here and now is so when you look at the original movie, which I will I did not watch out we know, is that when I, Oh there you Friedman yet Eddie you guys you, the movie goes, you know, Georgie Jetsam produce yes journeys as the famous one billion. That, of course, drew was excited by
but in what was the challenge? You know when you looked at the original, how what were the fundamental differences in how you are going to approach the story, but I was blessed I would say I was led by discovering the book first, my a matter of a few days, Marilla Movie yeah in a bookstore, an empty I may lay. I was withdrawn Burma we were watching. I am again dream I'm wrong. We're Lanka's yeah, Berlin guessing Run run. Does a pretty good Birmingham ride. I talked around where the ILO. Well, you know here, yes, proclivity due to imitate area Nagras. Any brand Branda average. I lay his bird better, be Ideality Asia. I wanna play a gardener like these and there isn't this movie. He said my Murali MA am there's a guide to stand on Carlyle, but I would like to play an item, let me look at it
you couldn't find is the ninety fear. You couldn't find anything right, everything you wanted. You have to search for like a scout visa and what I found a novel we eyes had run. I found on always there's an humble. I have here. There's a novel, I'll read: I read it am. I was I said how good. Anyone mega movie from this enduring and a code in Hollywood, and I an eye which go beyond the censorship of censorship to anyone you couldn't show three quarters of what I'd, rather you and then I saw the movie and and the more we of course, one interpretation, but the novel left room for three four five, more version Tarja size unless try it we couldn't because it was a fog, some library title
really am. I ain't comes round from a mexican guy of twenty eight and twenty nine. Can we make a real, never tells us a long time ago. Ninety nine, so this is so you ve been dealing with this, forty. Four yeah. I didn't think I could get it made honestly. How many many firms have you done to that point I had only the courthouse periods. Are you watch enlargement there filmography somewhere page network? That's incredible, it was already a delusional yet, but I mean I do it's: it's not you. It's right, the things that we were talking about before you locked in there was. This is some sort of lifelong obsession yeah. I guess when you read it, as you grew like a good book or any book or any piece of art it somehow, We ve evolved with you, listen, at a time to do it? Yeah? If I had done in back, then it would have been the same Marie it would have been a little more interested in some of them.
was. I done browning aspect every year, the at the anomaly, the human anomaly, the anomaly and under I would have been a dragon to the imagery under, given that, as you know, I tried to approach at this time from our point of view that I think Does what I like to know, which is data genre or something that really are and then be constructed. A little Lord tried to make a different than the regular more imagine I do that with action, horror, shirts, I fire whatever I myself, in your mind like are in were you constructed it because the store it is pretty pretty nor right. Yes, we check the box, so what were you gonna do. Let me obviously the lighting is different in because you made this spectacular delta
RO style now colorful, but that that that tinted color yes, that you seem to have locked into the last couple movies net, but that is a morning Kronos him in four shots, and when that happened here is a new one. I went to the Indian Kronos Yang Kronos one he is reading the diary area. I have the country's return, voodoo warm light and a cool. I tell ya and an eye I set out this is it now. It is my by this sort, avid that's that's so what what was it The noise- I don't know your house, man they're, just happen. Yeah How do I maintain that at some point, So what do I want under different non over? What did you do? I mean I can't when you were constructing it, because it I mean, obviously it doesn't look like an old, more and end in there's been many. Attempts at noon?
are some more successful than others right, Chinatown Alley, confidential body heat you and these are modern wars. So what What was it that you were gonna bring to it that you said this is going to be constructed a bid for me its approach to the normal, the normal is presented, Langer Fresco like I'm your own visa and then the course of our deep diamond: do everything we do did as table warrior for not for the writing. Now I've decided that the proper thing was to make it characters study rather than a full fresco. So I said We should offer with this guy and a big. This question mark we him dragging our body on the morning and less an end up. Hopefully and you can condone him or not. I don't care, but you understand it. You know You know who he is a little better done under begin and oddly enough, as as an anti hero, antihero goes, or as underdog or as a criminal as morally corrupt person. You so
you seem to us to manage the balance like you do, because that dynamic with the father. Yes, that you'd you, do have Phil have empathy for the guy near it was. It was that was one of the first principles was Can we the rail develop without ever telling me audience island stop the more we value his MAX story can sort of peace. It together in other is little snippets. He has. The scar on the back? he'd rag bag. I korbes here he dug somebody's father we find out where no watch comes from. We have little snippets of some dreamed, love, Lama and an bees that together without some of them are, tries to or or has downfall aspect that has very moral yeah. I didn't want him that I wanted to do As I said, the yonder beginning, I wanted to include relief The thing you feel when you men, hiding who you are
through my gloves success or react investigation and then finally, you breathe thou goest people see you for whom I would also like in terms of what you do you were able to. Kind of integrate. All the themes that- you know that you ve been preoccupied with in a fairly a kind of dark, but but There was fantasy elements, but it was human based, yet they were yeah, and then the idea was calmly. Look there is to aspects. One is the ritual attraction. Went I tried to move the camera in a beautiful way. I tried to encompass redheads, I dreaded sport. You do realities that are really compelling the bud. But one of the things I abandon was. The sum of the whimsy in Ireland is not one single is pretty much a lot more raw, a lot more brutal. Maybe it would,
and that has to do with a thing that is very, very hard to explain, but then they read does know very well which has torn yeah the tone of it needs to stain reality. We, goddamn heightened societies in another. You know how to do that. Yeah. What is one of the things I look for? I believe I handle some difficult dawn in things like ship water or your fans, Labour, India, where you have to balance the reality of the civil war, with a foreign walking into an ethic ducking doggerel about a secret door and those are hard to balance or or order musical number and Jaber Water right coming out of the kitchen and all that but The key here for me is why? Why do it now? You know why, and why is at an end, and I were responding to a feeling of anxiety feeling of These are deregulation of truth and lies, and and and
in my capacity we have unbelief unbelief unbelief there. And the government they will have to be cruel to each other in an almost seemingly endless way. N, N, N n and also in a currently seemingly shameless way that at there is something that a lot of humanity's walked into right now, which is a lack of shame and conscience. That enables them to honour their anger, thou, wilt, seemingly without thinking there would be any any recourse or any any consequence. Well, I think rarely goober an eye when we talked about recently. It has to be a reckoning, yeah, he and I as a reckoning, an and one of the hard hard things to do for him as a magnet. For me as a very rigorous, you basically have guided the doesn't change for now in the percentage of mockery, a half his days on the same path. He stays
relentless. I mean, look the second half of their tool. Very this thing by design halves of the moment. The first have is him collecting, almost not speaking ankle. I've been information from everyone using. In the second half and the firms have ends on what should be my all rights, a happy ending. The second part is him: starting to land on reality because he find somebody daddy's, a man for him and even best's, and ah Someone is Kate Bloodshed and they think that amaze, me, though, and looking at the arc of your work, is that you are able to integrate belief. You able to integrate religion you able to integrate drifters you're able to integrate meal in an almost a narrative way. I browning yet at the very amateur, more sure yeah I mean, but I like there was something about the beginning where I cannot. I kept going back to that
yeah, whatever he was looking that met cage at the beginning he found the thing in the thing we want no more worrying and the whole thing is constructive, very, very carefully visually would turtles because that's the geek beat calling him and it started with the fairies will. Then under the bed himself. And then you go to the eye of the baby. There, then you under the circles throughout the Molly there, the cabarets circle, his dressing room is a circle. The mirrors circle. There are circles and my design in the green. The love is a problem and at the end of the m he when he wants to talk to them, Regarding I tears, I huge circular window behind me. Finally, is gonna? Go there because what
happens to him and then something came on either side of early on peer. We said we don't. We wanted to be a surprise. People will see it coming here. Let's assume it is not the. What is the? How have you handle the and how the heavily- and I thought it was very effective- yorkers- I? U, because my brain I get from watching too many movies and also having some sort of still even cynical and dark is I've become and always was. I still haven't any desire for closure and to have a happy ending of sorts, but this does circle and there is closure, and it is satisfying that some weird open ended. Fuckin are noise. It I mean look one reason why we and by the way, there's no such thing as a spoiler on this either. You know, I do know it. I'm time with area, as is in fact, is what it is his we pretend with great beat till the last. Moments of the life of the cheek We see him by the chicken. We see him in the cage. We see him,
drowning know. Now I am your aim. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, I'm you know, there's gonna happen to him. You you have to know that at the moment was billed mark as a circle. In theory, aerial loop he's laughing and then he remembered dragging the corpse and they start over and then there is a perpetual look so like at what point during the process of creating the story. Do you decide on this circle thing when we were and when the immeasurably we loved ended? a beer that I called a submarine which is before anyone comes. I worked with four guys that original list and we design a certain code. That is how do you know my main guys guys gave easier is I'm coming Bogart did not at war with the Vienna families and then we call, There are three people like we cast them for four. A specific than we need just visually. Does visually mud two story,
still consult with Alfonzo in our handrail. Yes, Papa. I keep. I keep a very open everything room. One so ones, and then a review comes over yet during editing unnoticed, quorum, yeah and you guys do that with each other to J around and merging lively, yes and everybody I keep I keep it open. Eliza it'll come in and liberal because We have a saying we ve comes out. When he comes out we all agree is massively goes out. Pieces loves, let's brutalize, Anything you want because look in the end. They remained in the digital, where he's Here too, though, they change their none to argue about it right now did you assure me you can undo it. I mean I I added an analog near and we used to save one frame with a clear,
we're on a lion like clothes. Like do you remember how you came up during those day? Oh yeah? What's that Well, that's interesting! So who's there like Iraq is all you guys, you're all Academy award winners now, but but you are uniquely tours and in your approach so when, when those towards dealing with your work, which I think is in a different than either one yes, yes well, what's approach, it went who or what are they good for in terms of what they bring to the table when they bring notes very different leg Alfonso? one's eyes really really close to me. So he's a lot more brutal yeah he's a lot more like a brother that, unlike a sibling NEA uses, a uses words that are not encouraging. Reassure my what the fuck are you doing here are you gonNa Alexandra also goes
is more of a lot more thankful, buddy would say: Gordo. Are you gonna finish that occur in all the way until it stops, is beautiful, guess his beautiful it so long? Yes, he's ease, commenting on length of the media is not, but we have we have that each of them brings a different point of view. Sometimes they disagree and it is good to hear somebody visit. My favorites Hannah mailer browsing Visa may leave favorites in and then you may your decision at the end of the day. You say oh good, for me it's in ozone, why? I think that's what this thing also about the, though ass to movies that, like you, ve used industrialists, as villains before right, any views, Eve used in a fascists and as villains an end in we still have some of that here, but but, as you are saying in that way, the time is now when
you chose to make this around these issues of of belief, and you know, Belief is taking people and, and people hurting one another. There is a genuine threat of authoritarianism. Now and are you feeling like you need to approach at more had if, as I know, the words were too is in the back on it, he s career, there's a very nice moment when she says dream: haven't you heard where more, which is about them too, and also on the world? Well, the thing is, he has idle character, headaches as I've heard here. I'm aware but the guys I came they'll give a shit no, because I think I think these guys about mountain the thing that I feel as one of the things in nor that is, re may important success as a door terms. Success, which is a larger machine if, as you could have more, but listen. You're good have more of yours. You could but but
but very often in nor, for example, the money which regards a symbol fear Enzo being meaningless at the and floating in the air round, the course of the year around they hero and mean Boyd of meaning. You know- and I think I think these guys about climbing and climbing and climbing that's interesting wireless yeah, because like you. I just realized. You know watching Kronos they die, nothing matter to that guy anymore than maintaining power and staying LE near where they even then, if you give em bearing let you saw it done recently, because the guy wants to live forever me all he. Those is shit on peace and stay in his room. Brian and torture has now under joint Zebedee doesn't go how'd. He doesn't enjoy the world he just to say a line, and I just I just watch the though the final episode of Succession Wagner his story same story, because there is a point, look is such a thing as a no money. Yes, there is.
But for some people there isn't and that's a complete the range I know I never understand now in them. It annoys me because it means that we have to deal with people, if their money is being made in the world of show business, we have to deal with these people that Europe become redundant generators of of of their own hackneyed content in to keep making millions of dollars well, you have, you have certainly look there's, a point a point, and when somebody has enough money than the, our entire bloodline, learned over they couldn't spend it, of course, that point. It becomes an idea of an idea, one idea: the movies it very clearly if they did a number of you, then you have a hollow and you'll, never have enough in the movie says that very clearly an and you have this guy them has
what is moving about this guy did Richard Jenkins plays industrialist, is that he is horrible and at the same time I understand that he once forgiveness in the end the is not just a monster, he s a monster and a human at the same time, for Jack and and and what I think is a Monday well does. Is it most people away from reality and really Why? Because you can't live in it anymore now you can only hang out with people that are at that level of wealth. Forget, like you know so much the story- I just working guy in show business years ago, who is a friend events Stiller when you went to a party at somebody's house, your conference, no one Stewart was behind him, DEFCON writer, but he got. your party, and it was just the type of the people that were there were clearly of a class
none is no fault of their own interest in nature of wealth, you would never think they'd hang out with each other in the only thing that makes him hey. Nice. Lance Armstrong like this random cast of characters that operate in this rare air that have to spend time with each other because they can even Yosemite The wear masks to go on public news, but I gets into waiting in and of itself. Well, you see Kronos and theirs. They prevent them the industrialists exactly the same way: isolated in the chamber that they can leave, or a world that they have built. A big and leave is exactly the same yeah invasion. In fact, in fact, except the axis. Is rivers left or right right, left ear
The presentation of the space where the industrial who live is exactly the same, which is a movement that I called a hinge, do come laterally and then your reveal oh yeah, depth, playwright right right at an end, and I do it very pointedly. I do it in every morning when I revealed certain space that is significant dilemma. Neuron hell we're doin. There were one louella because Those spaces are character there, not just beautiful design. Here they are telling you character and their w psychological position at the our peoples is the opposite of my candies. I protein. Madrid and To give an example, the new industrial is when you present all space. He owns this factor here then all that wailed, the every everyone o the sense in the city here he's like an alley but I like and personally I am in the hotel, Adele Roma Industrial is the office of this egg psychiatry.
List. All of them are highly he's on an, as is an anomaly heading for a circle and and when we go into this place all that bad, and then you see him so play sitting in a little chair completely come because he doesn't have to be behind a big desk or how he knows it is incomplete, quite because he has power. Did you tell him that yeah? That was your direct, not only their own Richard and then and then Richard amazed at what should he do because we and I said what, if I ask for his jacket and a fold, it really nicely like I'm like I'm he's Bali and I said that's a great idea, because then he he's being Serbia to please please thank you. Thank you hold out a whole. A odd element of that character it gave adds up. Is such depth it out of this depth of
empathy or some he's when you as you are very kind of you? I wouldn't count Heineken so this intention moving from Kronos, because any cross was your first for but you're sort of in show business before that yeah I was. I was for them professionally I was there for ten years. Reformat, though story, boarding, make up a fake design. I was a. system they rector. I were, I was p. I was here everything, but you did you have a company that did facts ye. I am because, when I was doing my short films as a kid, I'm sixteen only mean area so bright and thirty five. I didn't, have any one to do the Mangaboos, I rode to Dick Smith, He was a very famous mail order. We I'm an acre. We have baker on the show, make it yet make airway guy and I read sought to speedier and dig have done. You teach me maybe
my thanks area had he said. Yes, oh really, he had, of course open for international student here accepted me yeah allow! So you don't you from the master you have, I mean he, he said look and there are many many mega bar disguise a that- are a lot more men along a lot better about scalding or pain there than any one you knew, but you are the one the needs of the most cause, there's no one in your country. Well, what was interesting is, I guess, you're making sort of an inside joke with the with the more titian
earlier in the party that has very much easier, but all the effects in Kronos are known. My company yeah yeah. No, I mean because I fear that that played against the scheme coming up the actual facts and with him sneer, footnote Pisa biting money on things. Look at it. I will dwell on earth in fact, ice cold, the detail of the insect I did and personally I sculpted one of the machines in the interior of them by so through story boarding through make up. This is where you, you know you sort of defined your own approach to the language of film and the way to shoot yeah I was, I was doing moments before them mere, but one, but this does what it did, not help maize to break any idea do element migrate. How you? How are you gonna best? How are you express that idea and one of the elements you mean how many guys, it's what one instrument and you had to break. Every idea do into pieces right
in this movie in Kronos Emmi. Obviously you reckoning with which some religious stuff. Eternal life. Why he might media. I always assume that Jesus was a vampire while there is, there is a very real one under the communion for sure you're right, I mean yeah. I believed you drinking boy do get me, I'm a Jew. You know I took a trip to ITALY and I went to other churches, and you and I used to tell a story about how they all have their dead. Wizard record. Of course, for me, do dead wizards in pieces the pieces, relics, ideology live Mark TWAIN to exclaim. I know why Jesus was so famous. He was a giant eyes, a bone of him everywhere in Europe, but I'll tell you one thing. I realise that you know, because I enter what sort of a child's mind and that I dont know allowed him down. Catholicism is that you have the the no, the weight of the imagery of
was short and the structure of Europe of working glower. You in the fields of peasant class person, you're going be crushed into belief. Now, just rebuilding is one day where little of the pageantry of of capitalism is almost comparison. Like says it will be the milk on bare do my dinner with Andrea right yeah Diana like they saw oversize and and in fact the whole idea we gotta get generals, one of them to make them so big and pointing to the sky with the with the arch. The gothic large is like a fool. pointing to the sky, to say This is how small you are. We are connecting you to what is in Heaven And how did this? Like it, I mean I want I was gonna ask you, because I was sort of from early on a strange fascination with with with Psycho. personnel into areas, but I dont know why
I think I thing for me: there is a beauty looked and the carnival locomotive a carnival these. That is very honest about being dishonest. First of all, MIA, say something. Aids is the is a poor relative of the rich people and royalties cabinet of curiosity? Ok, this is, is that where it came from while I believe that the purpose is the same yeah you went in and in a world in which travelling was a luxury and a risk and an endeavour, young people collected oddities from all over the world to bring the world to you in a way that surpassed your imagination, yeah right now. ran riot, invite the spider woman that is in that
I so when I was for. I think that your idea look familiar to me to show, as are in that carnival when I was a kid, and I was amazed at what she says is exactly what she said when I was for really so I went to psycho tool, but I would like you to visit the Albuquerque state. Fair, wasn't a card, why sovereignty and Danny you know the though they were the last living simultaneous whenever touring. I saw that demand. but the biggest feet in the world, and yet some sort of elephant arises name any sitting there in a loincloth in I saw I there's a couple of what it. Why don't you our babies in jars by now, but I do think about. So what what is the first time he saw an actual all. You know human anomaly outside of parliament, our lies over over our size, human body, I saw most of them, as you may notice, from my movies things in jars
we are not yet like idea and Kronos, and I like that, I was almost every every every hour, Maria together something in a jar. Yes, it's when you were a kid, it's very impact for their very thankful, because to me they look like angels. I really need them for me. They were little. Souls they didn't get on in there and gathered there. The notion of limbo, at dawn babies that died without being Bob dies. Go to. Member state is sovereign. For me, I was some moved by them. They were young floating little soul, but not afraid. No, I was fascinated by my was either since I was a kid them and It's an image them in pursuing them illegal symbolizes like the little guy with though the cyclopean. Maybe the media is two things. It was an early treatment of the screen where he was gone.
And there were lines to that effect and then, eventually, he became became a Stanton before me, his like his linen character. The idea that these his insight, and then he uses it on his Bible, yes use and of labour. We have, and then the others, but we repeat over another. It is us there is a single lie watching via its. funhouse if in the black holes in the maybe amid the amended the Zena Picasso Egyptian also implies a global order. On behalf of the Illuminati, for those inclined to consider that that was in part of it up here, did you know that going? I did, but I'm done subscribe now, right. Of course he. I think. I think that we are, but it would fit in with the industrialists, and they would be there, but I ain't they eyes. Ice ascribed to incompetence and greed of forces throughout the world, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. So in terms of the effect
So when you were younger, it was just a fascination, and the idea. I think that what I came upon in thinking about my own fascination today I mean I I didn't see freak until I was much older, but I had the book very special people. Of course I know, and I had that when I was a kid like eleven, I got it at a bookstore. Just by coincidence I went with my grandmother. I was looking at the pages at the picture. Like I could not get. You know the. what what what the mule faced woman Adam, I at my head, yes and unite, and some other people will make us. I think there is a thing of resignation come from. I think that we look. We are. We are semi, irrational people. We are to see. What is damaging us. That's exactly and then we recognise and when is exterior eyes in that way, but it is that's that way. I very very cautiously moved away from showing the freaks until the very end in the wide shot
not not given them in a new given barely notice them and other contortionists stand. There is Zizi. There called Zizi the Beam Euro oil and here and there and the bird girl there very there, a movie and there, in the final shape of the final carnival, really NEA, but their very hidden and we spend hours and hours will go on doing to make a perfect, because even the one do you did see we're not ear. They were not hobbled goes wrong place to the strong man, and then you have made an origin in major mosquito, the endogenous, under my Georgia, the Nagoya and there in the door he murmured. The thing for me is to present them in equal footing, I think when you were a kid there, almost as a dragged me was a superhero for me here where people I thought I could have a conversation with wax.
For me when I- and I agree with what you're saying by think like if you're a young person has a heavy heart or fields. and then everybody else, there's a comfort in them of course, that there is nothing more moving for me as a kid, and I saw I so freaks out a very young age because it was short. laid laid show that George Silent found my early found. It was presented by a guy that was very knowledgeable of cinema and And- and I saw it and when they say Wanna was one was I I felt that I felt there that's why over his clicking more do I subscribe completely identify because you felt different. I very much. I felt I felt really, and I still someone I failed socially, not quite a great fit fiddle, one
What was expected of me when I was a kid like why? Well, they re was expected due to be our doors. He was expected to be cheerful. I would expect the do and I was exhibited the relief that the world was good, but everything I saw here, confirm that you, it wasn't and then the horror film confirm that I will. There are things that they don T come out, and I wanted to talk about those things and and and these movies, even now His short of that I mean, I think that there is a certain tyranny of nice. In writing. Our adds to totally counter intuitive on purpose and Anne, and then you go. I wanna make him or revenge is not nice. That is that that represents all the anxiety that is in the air, that sort of compulsion freer via an uneasy decided to do it right after having great success with the opposite, which is a really
moreover, lonesome yeah and I thought or well timed to try something darn at it, and that is that is at least there Blake that doesn't have. The answers will have some questions. So what is it wait now I I, I've got to too many magic and Catholics. Yes, but it seems like it nearly did a number on oh yeah, and how does that down at me, like Ino, outside a feeling, you know awkward and and and and and being very sensitive to the dark forces in the world, and there was no relief from Jesus there. As it was, it was a really strange environment ruin because, first of all when when, my grandmother were my great aunt, we're whom I call my grandma on my great aunt explained to me the day. Lieutenant of Camp Catholicism. Then she says, though you're gonna go superior, dory, no matter what, because of original sin scared the hell out of me,
new mean I haven't done anything man and I'm gonna be inflame. For how long is it well? A few hundred years this is the idea of your hundred years. So you'll have to mortify in life. to atone for that. I could understand how lotion there's nothing, nor how do you start that way? Well, like you started, such a deficit will no more. Nor has a great thing that says, the game. The game is right, and the only way to break through is so transgression right, and I am ass a kid I was like, while I really landed on a crate dimension, great planet, what has happened and they the beauty of firm. The pageantry of this thing is that It has a component that is very attractive visually, and that is very, it seems to hint
a dimension that I don't know, John Yen or Roy. I know you had its total mysticism yeah there, you have it in their hundreds of years of it hung at Dorothy saw me going back to the genes is in the pieces in the parts in the relatively high and ever knew there were so many dead popes by though, and it seems immensely like a bad leeway system or or upon these can eventually for Europe. The game- and you also pay now for a world. I may never really can also when you realize now in retrospect, have knowing what we know in the real world. This was in a year a a he just sort of
so what's the word I want you would do it. They were all there was so much pedophile. So many telephone number urge. I think the turbulent for me. What Jesus says makes a lot of sense sure. But but these visas is the Beatles and the churches are government, so really bad government on a bad bar where somewhere not get it. I get it, but I'm just in terms of moralistic early in the structure of it that they were. They were hiding these. These pedophile priest for so long for what I assume is partly centuries now within, I would say: Moon Millennium, the ATLAS who, just part of the fabric, the moral fabric of that church. It was hiding this the the most breaches in horrible since well giant murder, if not worse, immortal hiding now they're having men and genocide. Appropriation of proper D. That is a lot of things and and I saw some are ready for him. When I was a kid I
my great aunt we're who was all belong to a very religious organisation she gave, gave them her house. While she was alive, she lay that living testament and they took it. They took it and put her in a home. Oh, my god Anna and I saw the first hand, and I I just think Look I have heard. I have great faith in a spiritual dimension. I don't know I do I do. I think them is inescapable. But we do have a spiritual dimension. But I dont have any faith on an organised religion, everything there that depends on us stem and a hair. Again. I vow India society. I dont have on my trade, I have read in the fact that the the universe has As I mentioned, that is interesting mysterious I'm gonna, say madrigal. I wouldn't say that proportions of inner human proportions one there.
Bridge from very expensive, very much Some pictures of you know like from the Hubble telescope. Where are you you guys are dots in their galaxies, yet get you here, your brain, you know you can't Anne and in fact, what is attractive to me, I'm the guy that road anomaly. Unless aggression she a game or north. We said we were more honouring his search because he is a stamp in many many ways, writer than other writer of the novel. Basically, nine morally is at politeness. Cobb of his brain and, like you feel that is on oblique biography. This and He was a secret like stand them, he symbolizes them with the first. when the card of the full from the girl under full is less eager he's. looking for an Did it ever occur in the dark and am Gresham was in uncle Business Catholicism,
He was a full singer. He fought. the spanish civil war in the Lincoln Brigade, he wasn't of physical culture is a magic eminently ass. If he wasn't me, of course, he was curious about Madame that's gonna latchkey, but he was really uninteresting, nay, that road morality to get rid of the image of the gig. There was talk to him old corny. Despite several more precisely so it was an effort at exorcism,
I am. He really wanted answers his wife on him were big funds of sea as Louis she married she left him and married seals. Louis really, yeah! You ever saw shadow lands here that the story of his wife, this the last wife- yes, yes, the women men than those there, the joy and one that I know that when he Mary who had cancer- yes, exactly that was Gresham's, wife, ha and Gresham God success from the money of my Murali mishandled money and ended up get her. He got the cancer and ended up committing suicide in the same room and though the same hotel in New York than he had written a morally and in his pocket he had a card that red you'd rather die them face the truth that here but he re he had imprint of his personal card, one of them your rather die than phaser truth and the other card, as I will leave you to Google, it does, he have
to personal guards. The other was retired, no job, no money. Blabber in you use your usual sooner and a card you rather die than phaser drove his what we So this is the way was structured. No more, he hid to put masks of instigation of data being charming, custom is a. Maybe there is a maybe everybody says, maybe he'll be nice to me. Maybe he'll be like my saviour and we gave him three mothers on three women on three factors and said let him loose and then at the end he takes all the masks, finds the truth see what s interesting about the way you structuring this saying and also about the way that you know you have come talisman like engagement with so many of the artifacts pieces that use round yourself every day. Is that you this? These are out of its necessity with every filmy make, but there is a need to draw from all. Possible sources that are seemingly you this.
but none the less involved in order to make this whole those in need: get back to Kronos, theirs in alchemy involved, and there are one hundred percent. I mean like one of the things look, people sell, you must have a look at all the noise. We didn't. We looked the noise and normally people don't look at, none the wiser more brutal. We I went into studying american realist painted Thomas had bent on when would under why of Edward Harbour because they were at the cross of a really important moment in America, wordy pastoral ideals that fund founded the country clash with industrial urban reality? I made shows that the game is richer than the haves and have nots are basically to entire a separate Americans, and then you have in that moment comes
beautiful moment and in that way Newgate then, should horses dandy as a book. I miss lonely hearts they of the luckiest yeah. You know and then all the all too hard boiled literature of James him gain Chandler, Libya, yeah. So now, happened in in a window a time where they stay in this time is what you were capturing their legs, but you can see the build up to its yes, and also the idea of the drift the carnival, the the sort of peace, he bombing of the world. The idea It's all rigged. Is that you're there is. You know, I would say most of american business in terms of you know, there's a sucker born every minute, we're all a bunch of March, that is dead, is uniquely american and see illegally and still honoured. Philip Miriam line of president that I would say that
the beauty of the horror of when we presented, and you know when they guises that's a little old timing. The carnival as we see it in the movie, is the last spotter of that folksy brutality visa. Then we go into the city and is beautiful. But so loudly ruthless ha ha I, like the progression into from one type of hawks tourism to another. Why things like? think it sort of fascinating, as I listen to you that year, that the idea that you're going to bring all these parts together to realise this vision and and also to seemingly get some, Peace within yourself somehow so, at least in the West
satisfaction, but I imagine emotional satisfaction right. Will you do it every time you I'm in love, you viewed through do yourself on when you feel you- and you say this- is a movie or do the story I mean do I need to downright now here light and that's why I say looks as if you're not rude yourself is very disorienting and to day. Could you have all why? Because you can start buying into into and you can get high on your own supply it right and also bind what people think you're exactly and say? Oh, they expect this oviedo me, but you say less: let's go another way: do you see yourself as a searcher is just part of any, as each movie part another stone in the the broader understanding of your path. Well, I believe the wet- and I believe that you, if you're lucky in life at the end of your life review, really really lucky. You understand one or two things. No more one or two
things some one. I always say the most sacred moment, one that is in this movie, which is a sacred moment, is when you see yourself or who you are, and it happens to everyone. you can have been in the middle of your life or you can have been at the very end of your life, would believe you me. We all get a moment where we see ourselves her whole way harm without it adamant, yes, yes then I had them. full of times men when they are realities pulled from under your feet. The The first day of the kidnapping on my father was one I just suddenly everything guy everything's gone and everything is change that I know, is he still around now he passed away after the water, but he came back from the commanding. We gonna back right, lighter seventy two days but you you're New Noirtier pool. apart by violence, and then there was a time when. I have a completely hibernation, I passed out now and I almost
almost went on. I saw no but tunnel of life, not the guy. So basically the brackets on my life, makes hands. I I didn't see them visually failed, oh my god, I saw a tiny, I was alive foresaw so little and I went it's ok. I went I guess it's as the best way, Actually I was a reaction was I I saw. I saw the cosmic, abortion of that I saw the cosmos four legged millisecond I went home, ok, Nothin Agnew have enough about anything or here and there were not call a year. I get, I think, it's true, because I personally experienced tragedy in my life, and in the form of somebody caused me. passing away, I'm in and in an untimely way, and then you start to.
To really think about what it is hard not to get cynical. I imagine that going is the best way to embrace moving forward, as opposed to like what the fuck is, the point of even searching, but when you see the thing is- and there is a big difference this moment for me near his dogs over acceptance and senators is a brutal reality. Turrible unequal days, but is choices this game made and then as part of the nor what the beautiful level nor and the thing that gives it. The dimension of tragedy is that you know when you see the character, make the choices you're, no inexorably the his face It is coming bodies his decisions that are doing it? He doesn't see it giving them. Maybe the cards maybe he's an occasion when I was a kid: it's him. You see him fuck it up and in that that do you think that in turn, The narrative is an ant and added
two cynicism. I think what it is is it tells you look, look very really carefully and you'll see yourself shaving it. Why were you are really? If you're really someone drew to talking to yourself, you shape what happened, in some degree in John crowd, Young said Anne. mangled a quota ahead for as long as we keep doing. However, as we dont make, so conscious, conscious and we keep doing the same thing. stay. The same uncolored destiny- and this is true- is You see in abrasion here domestic thing, there's no such thing as the dark I told man, it's gonna happen he turns then says I fixed it in an area that done hubris, but you have a gap moment. You like these fact he's completely, but you see, I know, are one of the rules nor one of the rules is, you have to see the gagged or make the decision and an
and the consequent comes from there. That's does. What is more, I am. I concur. I just went over this down him and we can wrap it up because I think there's a lot of nice stuff here but tat. I just thinking about true confessions that movie yet at that Gas is closer than were as I've seen to some of the things we are dealing with I think so in the sense that there are others that are interesting to me, like I highly recommend one on our favours is too late for dears would listen. I've got, which is just such a. the scarlet and is then a warning listened flower him like such a role, Roger Raw nor an and morn to kill, which is really interesting. Robert wise They are very vague. What sets yard my movie with the Lancaster would then the first Lancaster. Then you mean that
the killers yeah the killer. The killers is incredible, but, but I think is very well known. I live I got my one of my favorites. I watch over time that a profound effect on me was out of the past, yet beautiful that's does one, although nor gaps, beautiful classic amid Chalmers. Always a there and a euro for that period, and then new, however you no longer by the robber. Now I would alien gold. I just watch out again. I don't like it the first time and I like it, I like it more now and yet I like my egg, I loved and his gold is the perfect embodiment of that and a hero pose Viet NAM disillusion, I think so you know, and then you have the eighties knee onwards, as you said, now I think about you, confessions is a knee on. Why was it will go far? Who did that? It can react if there's no guy, it's a brother is the brothers and- and you have for me one of the great was his blood simple.
One of the great me on new enlarged area. I have, I think, there's a couple like like Ellie Confidential. I think there's too many stories But I like it is I get older more I think, is look, I think, is a quintessentially America, more generally as birth and here out of that disillusionment is a very substantial one and I I think is really good for me. One the things a cinema candle beautiful is existentialism, another, though it often enough but in an we drive to do it. without really expensive world regretting period beautifully or hear you. I mean you hear me and also like when you doing with existential ISM, like you know that your heart, but you know the this sort of the trappings of your existentialist- attack your mutable right, so so
at the core of what this is. You know that moment that you have one you know who you are never grid for that had a movie you, you get, you get the answers in demanding, thereby life, but is the same as the violence or the sags or the psychosocial stuff. If, if I just did a beautiful more within that's what it is almost as they currently clear knock on, when you have the violence, you have older inner, brutal Lydia human listen then that that makes for me for a complete, complete merely the mammy of brutality. You did it what war? Congratulations are once again completing the circle ship as it is, and in what what what? What? What what's on the on the whiteboard right now outside of the you know the launch any model, and I am doing that, I'm doing I bid research and the basque
for the napoleonic era for more version. I wrote a beauty under these foreigners are now setting up The next product is said during that period. I gotta go back to my books over Christmas and I'm a day a couple of a little Man, military skirmishers untie that, and then you know if I saw that le what it is. But it is a nice. he's gonna Mississippi the little let alone, purple research during the holidays view of that I love ILO researcher, and I know goes out or if I now gear is, shooting has been shooting for a while. We are in a minute sixty of ninety five. Now how you approaching this day. Well needs as I said during the razor, was Alenia infectious deadly. So here's the fact that one of these is the only the public does the sound way humans, I'd like bubbles
Andy and under humans on understand. Why the but I've like a human right, but there they hate the puppet well you'll see how can an end is the origin of Pinocchio so moving and his version. I came up with an idea that I think he's very essential to what he is over. There is a different sort of her before mutilation of the myth, based more specifically on the original, while based more specifically on some strands of the original, but very much is a feeble that aim, I mean look for me. a dog read stories my childhood- and I know this elsewhere- is that our Pineau, yeah Frankenstein because they're the same story, different versions of the same sort of the now made model. Those who are thrown into the world hearts were to figure out any their totally sympathetic unknown to me they are not. I I wanna one of the things I never liked. There would be no goes that
It says that if you give your reward for being Good and conforming to society's, you become a real human being. I I thought I don't want that see my lesson we can than one that's interesting, What was certainly an honor talking to you, my Framingham. Why I'm excited for people see the movie made to redo man? I will go to one there you go. How is that, when a great talk, what a great guy nightmare alley is in theatres now quick reminder whether your struggling with grief relationships. dress or our having trouble, sleeping or meeting goes better help might be for you Its secure online therapy that offers videophone and even live chat sessions for their licence professional therapist visit. better help? Dotcom swash, w E, F and jointly more than two million?
People who have received the help from one of better have experienced professionals w the EP is sponsored by better helping our listeners get ten percent off their first month of online therapy at better help that come first, deputy F, that's better http dot com. Flash W Tia I was just thinking about it here. I think I gotta make some amends, is but here's three cords and then maybe a fourth I played before I play again in a slightly different way.
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Transcript generated on 2021-12-23.