Kate Berlant’s comedy defies easy categorization. That’s okay with Kate, who thinks people use a lot of empty terms to pin down comedy. Kate and Marc talk about how growing up in the art world helped Kate take a different approach when she got on the comedy stage as a teenager. They also talk about Kate’s sketch work with fellow comedian John Early, the inspiration she took from the late Brody Stevens, and why her Bo Burnham-directed comedy special remains in limbo.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Hey folks I'll be in las vegas on friday and saturday, joy, fifteenth and sixteenth, wise guys. angeles I'll, be a dynasty typewriter for to show saturday and Sunday July, twenty third and twenty fourth I'll be at just, laughs in montreal from my gala onset July thirty. Eight and stay tuned for announcements about solo shows I'll be doing at the festival. On July, twenty in twenty ninth eddie nice intimate venue that I've got tour dates coming, in august and September, in Columbus, ohio, indianapolis, indiana, Louisville, kentucky lincoln abroad. des moines iowa iowa city, iowa tucson. zone a phoenix arizona, bolder colorado and toronto in canada. Go to I pod dotcom sway tour for all dates and ticket info. Can you dig it? Ok, Let's do the show
all right. Let's do this, how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fuck nix what's happening? A mark mare- and this is my podcast- I'm broadcasting from a very awkward addition not in a hot air balloon or anything, but I'm at the edge of a sofa in a hotel, room, different mike than I usually use on the road which requires we'll stand and they don't have a desk in this room, just a sort of round side table at the edge of this small sofa, some kind of leaning, over the armrest and trying to get the angle right to speak into. This might correctly would sit, its own nor stand on the table in front of my comp. which seems far away to me lot that that's why information, that's unnecessary! Isn't it right who gives a fuck as long as it sounds? Ok, that's what were concerned about here. Ok, around on the road, not amazing, sound on the road okay. So I think it sounds pretty good enough
charleston right now, charleston south carolina have not done the show in charleston yet, but I have been eating. I have been out in the south. eating the food doing the stuff dry having around the room roads joining the scenery. Today, on the show I talk to kate for an actor and a comedian men. Have you may know her from sorry to bother you or your or I think you should leave and why upon a time in how we work she has her own episode of the netflix, get serious the characters and she's done a lot to sketch comedy with John early. They avenue peacock special Would it kill you to laugh, which I saw She also worked with me on easy. She played area. I think a book publicist. I had a lot of scenes with her she's in an odd presence but fun. and I didn't really know her. I doubt was a little and a little intimidated will nervous in terms of the configure
where she was calibrated. What was her trip in a way coming from, and so this reserve and writing converse Should we had but more about the tour. Can we can I talk to you? So? I do. I did durham. I flew into durham, took a minute get now I have two hours away on american, not complaining it happens. It was whether there was whether, in there whether flying into durham is like a thunderstorm. It was interesting to second, it's weird when you can feel the pilot take control the plain before he usually does its matches. Ro piloting in its not just here flip down near the landing gear, he's. He's got he's gotta nuver around these converge storms to find the least heinous ride and he warned us He warned us. He said yeah, we're gonna, get it and seated orally gonna get the flight attendants to close up shop about our early. We're gonna come into a thing to converge,
Judging whether systems guess sneak down. The last time I heard a plane. It was terrifying. and it was going pretty well- and this is the same pilot that before we took off add something along the lines of the yeah we're already take off, but we ve got to get the the ground crew to come over and one of the engines manually, the other we started with the switch, but we gotta get one started manually and we should be on our way. What does that mean like like a they gonna kick started? Is it like a little isn't like a a lawn mower ripcord thing? What do you call around, No great thing to say without explanation. we're gonna manually, start one of the engines, so that's the same play with the
about the converging why their systems and he maneuvered us in two a rally, durham airport little late, but it was of no problem. I was ok not much to do but day it did it right when we are about to him right when he could see the finish line, I could see the ground and say like work were close. Maybe we wouldn't get hurt if we fell from here and it started to rock man. Some big drops and sways I don't know. Sometimes I'm in moments like that and I realize like or something says you know, I'm not gonna. This isn't gonna be. How goes this is going to be how I die That is a sign of mental health. So, let's take a minute for a word from our sponsor better help. White. Can be overwhelming and many people are burned out without even knowing it, you know the feeling Motivation or maybe you feel helpless, are tracked. You can be detached from the things in your wife or you can just feel tired all the time most people associate burn out with work, but that's not the only cause
any of our roles in life can lead us to feel burned out and better help. Online therapy wants to remind you two priorities. Yourself talking with someone can Do you figure out what's causing stressed in your life? I know what happens when I'm burned out- and I don't get help I shut down- I freakout out- I don't want to do anything and that's no. I go into a paralysis and ate a stress, induced paralysis. Ain't, oh, it makes me feel not burned out talking about it with somebody. I is customized online therapy that offers video phone and even live chat sessions with your therapist. So you don't have to see anyone on camera. If you don't want to it's much more afford, in in person therapy you can be matched with a therapist you're forty eight hours, w e F listeners get ten percent off their first month at better help, dotcom slashed. Beauty, that's better eighty lp dot com, slash w e, F So here we go anxiety. Can we talk a minute?
This happened. This is a real life story and then we'll bring hampering kate. I bring caper land out and bring her out. Perhaps she says she's waiting backstage right now something like pottery. The last time was down here. I want to see grove about a shit tunnel pottery, and what do I didn't get out to sea brine? who's, the guy who makes mugs for my guests, he's a big fan of mark hewitt? Who apparently was one of the kind of one of the godfather years of the new wave of sea grove potter's and his places on pittsburgh and it's by appointment only apparently but Brian Jones sinks at marquee. What's a genius and potter and I will get some stuff with great. How I, though ass I was in town, I made an attempt to go, but it was an appointment only thing and there was no. I couldn't go so driving I get some dry and from durham right to charlotte, and
well fuck it man. Am I going to go with pots and have much room for pots or maybe I'll go look at pots. I'd died text Brian Johns. I'm should I need to go see mark you at. I guy got a car call the number on mark you its website, and it's like this is the home of mark you. It you know that if you want an appointment to see the work, you have to call care, And I got a second number on dial another number right numbers down to my car Southern number woman answers and my guess is carols he's. I guess who's. This is it mark marin drop in my name, heavy, just a certain, maybe get in to see some some jars and mugs yeah, just one giving an appointment with the with with the gas to see some of the works he's like all you, ve called on a great day. We had a killing opening its kiln opening this only happens like twice a year, and today is the day from ten o clock to five. It's a curse, opening all this stuff that we just that just came out of the count is going to be
open its can be open studio from ten to five or whatever. I look at the clock in its wake it's ten thirty and I'm in our way. I'm not gonna get there to eleven thirty. So I say kay, ok, I'm coming but I immediately went into like some sort of strange panic like really aspire. What my, oh, my god, I'm going to get that there's going to be nothing left. Is there going to be parking, is going to be a line for pots? I mean how how big is the parking lot? Is it out in the field? people say I mean if the other can be bathrooms ikea, their port of parties era mean, what's, can be situation. I'm freaking out that it's not going to be a mug europe or jar for me to buy at mark you it's because I'm gonna be like our two forty minutes late for the killing burning, shall why gauges gonna be pandemonium. Some ceramic groupie clusterfuck out there, like I'm sure going to get there and then be on a long line to get into
studio people can be walking by which is quality, ceramics, I'm gonna look at their parts in their jars, I'm gonna be like fuck, damn it. I knew I'd I'd miss I knew I'd, miss, there's not going to be any mugs or pictures or Jars were me enough. No, glazes. I fucking boil it. I get there direct twelve people there, some nice ladys come to see, the glazes bite out tell him. Am stunning pottery stunning work: huge wood burning, coun like their several. an old one, there's a new giant one twice the size of a truck. I go it's like a giant oven. Like a made on the ground at of mud. There's a gas killed there too for other stuff, but I got a tour of the com. and I talked to markets on the it's on my instagram. If you want to see it, and I bought a bunch of beautiful stuff he's going to ship it to me, I do know we're gonna put it
but I had to have it. I got there ahead of the curve man. I got there in time there were still stuff there by day. It was interesting to talk to him he's a kind of em he's the guy he's the peace he's the potter he's the one of the region, there's a lot of potter's down there, no other good ones. I bought a lot of good work down there, but are these eyes were down their started out with him. I imagine we're getting pretty mad. If there was any this there's gotta be some guys there not unlike any other art there. Just like the fuck, you fuck that guy man legally we're gonna do a man. This is way ahead of where he sat he's school beautiful stuff was beautiful, stuff, I'm excited to have it in my house, nice guy too. British real gentleman knows his shit, so listen cape roland. She has a comedy special, a stand,
special, which is not clear whether not going to be on or not, but I watched it, but she's also got this. Other comedy special john early, and it's called kill you to laugh. It premiers this Friday june, twenty fourth on peacock and this- me talking to kate bur so way. Who tells you cannot during seltzer who is the lady. Person is this. You no kind of holistic woman, general general holistic woman that you know in passing, or somebody that you go to hell and I'm concealing. It was a collapses so you're hiding the call, because the knew yeah it's like hiding it hardly macleod until I want you on a guy new york, yeah, that's where they really the heat,
community there, parents, the gravity cloning had not by the water appear. Would, though, it's right, yeah there's a machine that regions where I would like here and allay that, like the ones whether sideways and those responsible to intensify the proper ira, Veda way is like you want, it's called. The gravity method is good of its good. We just have one until I saw it driving that how much time neue he will have, because what is driving it? I don't know you know, do you people abuse them. I was just sort of curious and then of course said like made me like that gives you, like a full body high, doesn't answered away. I like felt god are we really? I want a little bit. I had a little bit of on it. Gonna took eight really takes out of the everyday embodiment kind of status, but was the high just the sort of transgressor nature of having a tube
yeah yeah yeah in water, probably idea feeling real clean yeah, Well, I guess it's a kind of I like alarms go off around like me, like I'm finally, clean and anti like you, I don't like followed into that trap, but there is something the evenings to trap, yeah yeah sure I've. Just like you know every four days I go in there and not yet, but it's it's. there is looking in disorder. Thing were again the way she was talking to me about cells. Being a tree here as a we're not going to connect like that they're just automatically like? I can't I am like a hedonist absolutely, and I can't pretend to this older lady know my nominations. amazing and shall say you know her things like the beauty elements of cologne actually like. I think she might be in her. Fifty years on you, she looks like really beautiful. I gotta wearing would naturally kind hydrated, like dollar area, but like stripped down, Let me make up, do you think she's, a chronic attic
you're, not imagine her bowels yeah yeah she is, but isn't it don't you disrupt your whole got garden. He had ass if they honour it can wash out that the proper fauna, so they have to hide from my mother, because if she heard she built like she at once, I mention as an option which iconic her face dropped and she was like please talk to a doctor promising a doctor. Adapt she completely because, like doctors were definitely like the religious figures, a man in my house growing on roads, it was like before I drew our war. The jury's out. My adds full at new york, Joe right, my mom's families from spain butter, but there are like secret jews Oh converser, ansell wire from way back we'll her her name is Mendez. Like minded has actually mendez burial Mendez. It's like adamant in poland and Spain re. My grandparents were diamond dealers in the south of spain, unlike the jewish ghetto, but what were they were? The jews like turnkeys,
but during the inquisition kind of that kind of the idea and then apparently my grandmother on her death bed was like or jews and died, and so and there's no. So I was lucky and show their people and a family who are kind of like now Men are, in any case no darkness around. That doesn't feel like intrinsically and write a medic there's just sort of this. There no religion outside it, just kind of a girl. You go to church you just up and by grew here, yeah really, I know I choose new york. Why me You spend time, though, near I lived in york for like eight years, Would you do here as a kid? Did you go to that school in santa monica? No, I went to an all girls schools that, with that one cannot archer crossroads. I was opposed to cut across your heads, might adds an art asia in our trade figure how expensive at a crossroads. I went from my half day. I got too scared. Would you because the kids were so cool and I think, like I was scared like there were boys. Are this cool girls being like? Have you given a blow job yet like I want to go to the girl at school, so I went to the sport
That is my first question. As the distinct memory is like staring at their high heels and be like? Oh, no, how old wooden does that start? Oh my god I mean that was I was. I was a young for my grade, so I think I may have been twelve when they were thirteen canada is your dad. He bricks and metal like they look like paintings, but they're metal he's like a real thing or yeah he's a real thing like he's in the whitney yeah yeah I really want to be like family. My parents aren't attainment light. But my dad is an artist but life. That was nurtured and with high level yeah, but bit like not like in half and in that in that movie with similar and then story right, which one of which I love yeah great, what you call the modest go with story that something stories when tell you I wept because they go.
Do you have been to the into the archive at the whitney of our thanks and our good will there I was like that will be maybe like he was important. Dammit he's like this. You will know in certain like my dad's known, like certain gruber but later, but I like course now growing that more than his friends they got like so hue and, unlike you gotta go find his little piece. Absolutely wooers peers as part of a thing so like the fairest gallery and allay libya is best friend. Some were at moses and chris burden. Oh who Chris burden now are alive, but yeah chris. He was like proof already, I was crazy shit yeah like way the fuck out there. yeah? That was one of my first jobs was working for him, you yeah, and he gave a sort of the thing that people I know him for his like he got shot yeah an actual performance piece was a bullet was supposed to just grades his arm and cut him. He accidentally got shot right, but yeah. He was that
I did all kinds of stuff, though, didn't have like some sort of was the out until pangaea, something yeah. That's where I worked. He highly beautiful amazing stood two panda who gives way visuals performance stuff, all of it? He was one of those guys for pity. Barnum art star absolutely like brilliant, like loved his work so much in and he was such a completely kind like yours. Imagining that guy who shot himself, they must be crazy, is a completely like just normal. So what was the other work? I don't know all his work. He did. There definitely was a lot of body, stuff kind of endurance pieces him like being shoved in a locker and like kind of like living in it for, however long and then he did that do you do needs to be anti houdini stuff. Where you can't get He doesn't want to no now ever then sculptures like a peace that I worked on was hidden installation rockefeller centre on the peace was called. What might gave me, and it was an erector set skyscraper.
Ok, so I was like in this kind of assembly line here. Making is like one little piece was like my jobs with super going this little erector beheld you all day nineteen. So when you do in that way, are. You sold. Nineteen. Twenty. Are you like this? Is it do they not only was so fine because your inner room into panda with, like you know, interesting people said, listen to music and talking all day here, so I had a blast and but was it your future? No, I mean I I I had jobs working for artists, but I was doing at that point. I was already doing stand up and that was like when I wanted to deal, because you have jobs with artist cause your dad, yes or your dad would be like you. I work for what's his name he's gotta make something out of foam. We are totally is a great day. Job like for animals is like stretching canvasses like destroying paintings, up, destroying,
illegal helmont thou my group, a document on gay catalogue, so he's like a big guy. Yeah? I know his work tat. I will. I think I feel, like I've seen it recently. so he's a big like painter like Ella, I mean yeah. He also, you know died a few years ago now dead, moses and Moses yeah. I feel a little. I I mean I know more than I I know some things about, but not enough yeah for this particular species. they conversation war. You knew Chris burned at some wild stuff. I don't know that's true here. He made an impact. It was a couple guys. It did sort of weird shit the guy. I remember reading about a guy back and I guess must have eighties who who went to mexico, had sex with a prostitute and then had a vasectomy, and that was his choice. Yeah great yeah have fun everyone left their life changed that night and said what the fuck was that about. I love it yeah, I I
I tend to like it myself, because it's because, as the poetry of even in telling the story, there's a sense too where you are like a guy. Did that on purpose like he conceived of it, yeah and he decided he was going to spend his last load. They are here. I I dunno. I wonder if it was something tells me we might have been a corpse, not a prostitute, no way Actually, maybe we'll that changes, the narrative, older, yeah, that's a route that reaffirms the whole piece. It's better peace. Yeah there's something I can hold onto yet so have exposed added this nightmare. It wasn't catholic I thank mrs regular all girls school. I was really loved it. There was just like boogie kids from santa monica pretty much younger. I mean it was a very. Strangely, I really liked middle school. I think, because it was
it was a small, was a small school, a kind of thugs being as it was just like my friends, and there was the kind of purity and innocence to that time, like I didn't feel I was like. just so hyper charge and was like clowning constantly and my climbing the lockers and like I just was: clowning like you mean you're screwing around you actually consciously clowning, as in you earned a clown thing. Oh, my god. Can you imagine, can you imagine I started to experience clown truly areas are not too grave clowning, but it is a dirty word in this industry. Now I was just like me: d, you know joking and work and I felt like free- and I was completely at that age. You, like my friends? My closest friends were really ponies, a beauty girls, who are like already amber control and I was like I want to go on it too. Like I went on birth control before I'd ever been kissed, I was like. I want to be ready. You know I just felt like that was in my future, but was so not in my present at all and I
truck era that I, of course mumbling. Ortho tri cycling, though here we come and but yeah. It was just I mean I remember I member feeling like utterly decentralized, because I was sort of the clown right. I wasn't getting that attention, but there was something beg, liberating in that for me, I don't mean I was definitely horny like obsessed with sex, but you're, just not in my realm whatsoever, but has happened around Gee, I asked I gotta get every detail and light was happening for you now but you are obsessed with it sure yeah. So you had be funny yeah. Oh, I have like There is this like origin story of my from for area. That was big, which was had this friend who was like she was truly a pack son model like she was a gorgeous years like in a bathing suit. Come hurry, and so she was my friend and one day after school like we're, gonna go over the skies house and I was like great I'll, be there
yeah, and I went over to her house that I remember because we had uniforms and we were going to trade. We were going to change into cool clothes to go to this guy's house, what kind of, I was over, wasn't catholic. General khakis spur like no, you might look like a catholic girl uniform early, but we are so we like winter had none of it clothes fit me because she is so tall and lanky. I remember she she put me in a hard rock cafe, shirt or- and these like sweatpants, that I rolled like six times and we went over to this guy's house and there was a other guy. There may be one for you and for me, a failure, but I think clearly was currently that was not my energy and then, but I remember being in their room listening to neil young's harvest. He was really into music, like he. He was like in L. A he's like I was the first guy to know The pavement was cool in outright, and so he was like this india, china, god, and being in it. What the other kid was being in the room like paying out on the beds, and I was making them laugh, and he was laughing and that he was like you should be
careful, though, cause our guys don't like girls who are funding, because it reminds them too much of other guys, and it was like he said to me in this very matter of fact, just kind of like plain way and I like it, I feel it four memories of my life and that's one of them is just so concrete for me, and I was like I won't okay. This is, diane, but you looked. It is a superpower. I was kind of like David. Stated, but I already knew that was the truth. isn't it true the enemy than a certain regard. I was like already, obviously like realizing that that I wasn't right that something was you weren't all that weren't, insecure and sex step yeah here I was just like the eye took that and I was it was it was confusing cause. It was him acknowledging that was funny, but acknowledging the sexualized clown Decentralized clown, I think, is better than a sexual eyes clown. We'll say: yeah yeah totally beyond
baby jane. You know right I mean sometimes when I'm around l a and I'm looking at a women of a certain age like I'm gonna get the whole baby Jane spectrum just painted that yeah in a little bit, but some obviously do better than others. It's it's an art form. I mean my mother, I don't even know what her hair color is. my mom is like my mom is really beautiful. She. Seventy eight really doesn't seem issues incredibly youth well, but you haven't done anything to her face all guarantors. Make up. That's great, no yeah, and she really is just like. So you, ve fallen gore just to me, but with one thing. I like her hair has is always died. Oh yeah, so that's the thing that, though, is like I've, never seen her with gray, hair, gray, hair yeah. I think it's cool to look out for myself and, like I think I'll go greatly. Gonna happen. Let me now hasn't now. What's your mom do so my mom was my mom
the one to be an actor things like deficits, not saying that she wanted to be an actress, but she didn't. Fully go for it exactly here, but she was did she worked, allow this proof with this guy in gaeta quantity, who is a french doughtiest guy and she was in his plays, were here- yeah, I know ay and then all you do some stuff in new york will ruin but yeah with. What's his name the quantities odin leisure, gee you and he was now far out- guy HU. There was a resurgence of interests of interest in his work like ten or so years ago, so she actually went whom did we not about six but you'll, be amazed. What six people at the pompidou in paris can do so I was like so she did was performing if the t and at moma, like this kind of right, you know, and at this point she was in her late fifties, early sixties, it's great that she was probably like. We got the old gang together completely, unlike her, the the women
or a sort of his music asia. Like my my aunt up up the woman that really took care me minnesota, it was really fun to watch them like perform these there. These really beauty surreal plays where he arranged, but he like learned English there watching commercials, daytime soap operas his plays or on this link if melodrama, but there completely absurd. So it's like a negative prop. That's like her. You know green Q. The telephone right and is it that's made by this amazing artist, Bob Wilhite, whose hearing ally, but she grew up around all the stuff now this was your world. How is my well, I like it aye aye green about that stuff. I like it. I like going to see things like that. I don't do enough, it's not my life and as I the older? I get cynical about it and I and I start to sort of not dismiss it but like who cares, I'm sure well, yeah you're, american, it's and you know it's an anti intellectual society yeah. But
I grew up loving it and, as I get older, like even the stuff that resonated with me, I appreciate not like just joined the whitney again, I'm still active about it, but there is part of me that believes it should be relevant on a level that it's not, and then I get angry about that. If it isn't, I realise that they don't want it to be re, because, the special world and its insulated in it's weird and they're, not trying to solve any big problems now they're, just they just want their friends. They come in someone to write about it and the picture to be an art news. Yes, it has almost no it's. By rarefied in very right. There is a period where I think are disillusioned. Yes, yes, well, I felt like I, doing stand up for a while, when I started wars over. What is this is this performance are now. I was persuaded that us if I may now you and that people are asking you or they will people were seeing those doing later. Oh, it's weird or it's like it. Could you reforming our tools like I knew it. There are saying, but again I just like didn't like it occurs to me that
was associated with this kind of impenetrable echelon of, like oh, it's impossible, understand and obsolete uncrossing my eyes. Oh yes, it's really I'm like a ham, weird. I never understood and also like at the time. When did you start I started when I was seventeen here yeah what We think about that. It is a I remember when I started, and I saw makes you were doing something that didn't like lock into what I thought stand a pleasant and I thought it was somebody very, not even not mainstream, but it just struck me that idea when I started didn't really understand that how big the umbrella stand up really was near. You know, but then, when I want when I was coming up in new york, he had that whole sort of young collective unconscious. listen and other spaces down below housed in that were holding on to, this legacy of performance are, but it was really a cop out. It was in total ain't there, it really isn't hasn't been any real performance art since the seventies or eighties. I think maybe the mid eighties right. I mean really conscious, Karen Finley,
yeah, you know or various their place in that the the place it was in that woman's waft were they all did that stuff. York or the western group, or that when I curling schliemann away like there, but the rest of it, is sort of either stand up or not good, standing right or war completely yeah. So and he started where'd you go so my first life, performance. Is that my high school as yet who are you watching that made you want to do? I was on its its I'd. So true it before some alec sat down to write, stand up. I had just watch David crosses the letter. Erica laugh, develop his leg touring like that. Guy had like that, media of him tor and I I just couldn't believe that you can like live like that. Like oh, my god during the world and interacting with these crazy feelings, you shows that it was so romantic to me. I was like that's incredible so
I you know I was very obsessed, like I loved, we know woody allen and Steve Martin, and I liked all that stuff and your comedy kids yeah yeah totally and then I started becoming obsessed with the we have new york nuclear invite them up. where there is an urgent, exactly ip invite them up. Double bobby tis daylight, but see alec memory, that and lower you of those people who say that was already done the time you're getting in the pretty much right fifi was, I was joel to perform it received in the east village. The weak it closed. So I was like way, but I was still there when I would see like yeah, eugene, merman and- and because those are like more kids to me. Yeah yeah, like I'm already one generation removed from that, but you're coming in and that's already like, while they all happened here yet and die here. I don't know I feel some shapiro. Where you do. Did you know the shapiro? Does you know rick Shapiro? Did you ever see rickshaw? Oh my god, yeah yeah. I feel I'm feeling some shapiro, I'm like oh great yeah, india in the stand up special yeah. Oh my god,
oh my god, you watched it. I do complex you why the fifteen people Zena you're not going to release it. I ll, I have to really say I mean I shot it years ago. No, it's pre kapadia really, but it might come out. Event may come out now is that it used to be yeah, and you put mirrors of yeah yeah yeah america or german. I sound like. I know that space there's only one space, it you know you're on stage with most of the audience yeah exactly structurally. I know it's the old eusebio yeah so but yeah, but you saw Shapiro yeah yeah yeah and I love you. I love that these had reached Piero yeah. Well, I mean I you know I've been doing so long, young, you and I've known him forever. Bag known everybody forever. I know you know went one thing so kinda people a lot of it I, was going to accuse you of ripping off shapiro yeah. No, but I'm just getting a taste of it, get a taste of his shapiro. When you are
talking about and also performance art. I like Brody Stevens or I like love so much, I'm like that's something that people would be like. Well, that's performance, art, but he's at the comedy store. You know what I mean like he's, one of those people for me that when I saw him I was like so I felt like liver. He was so funny and what he was doing was like, like just an myerst, here's the thing about like that. That thing just from my. Experience with it is like. I don't think that people who claim to be saved performance- I know it on one side, is something that I quite understand and they think another gun now category. He doesn't belong here like that you're too weird for here in the area. They were doing never anything to work to be done. Standard venues air ever, but I think the real with its, whether not you're doing it on purpose. Yeah, do you know like the sometimes there there are people that are carried by the form, in the community of it who
aren't really intentionally doing something but their their part of the we near the remaining. I can't do it their way and then it's almost like people are protecting them from being laughed at for the wrong reasons. Guy yeah, so I've seen that. Allow me I ve no, but like but brody's persistence was you know, it's a drove a lot of people, a people. It was eight eight up did. People totally near me. I think about him all the time you do yeah. It's us. I know and I really like I'm yeah what do you think I'm just not that I knew him well, but I just know him in the way that you know people familiarised comedy and his like Sweden. But also his um. I love his in distance, unlike the push believe like like, like that insistence to mere so generous and real here and now
we're in this world. Weird kind of this language of positivity has been collected and like become this. Like other kind. vile gross thing? That is like a slogan, What did you do it later? Be other people we say storytelling yeah, it's like it's! It's just but the antiquities another one that I really don't know what that word means. Never. I've never well don't buy, it doesn't exist, and I think in europe- and in this anniversary you you you, I think you got there- most honest moment of what authenticity means, when you, when you're throwing up mia- Oh, my god. Oh yeah yeah the watch in years to deny very solid? It is a great guy folks and I'll be out. I know, but I know that's not really know what you're out pushing. I'm thrilled at you're bringing it up? Because, truly I did I did
you're. Talking about it like it's like everything's different. Now, I'm not even that person. I know I am I'm so trapped on that stage, because a good the special hasn't been out. I mean I, I shot it before covered burgo. Fortunately, for you in a sense its you're, not you can be timeless you your kind of time, every year I wake up in a cold sweat like my specials, not out of my well good news, it is you cross in your eyes doll. So your fine there's nothing topical in it by and I see no burnham directed at his mean a beautiful my career in doing it. May I think this whole movement to to make everything seem relatively uneventful is really the new thing, just a complete hey. What's going here, yeah yeah, let's go there's some going at a camera homeward, but we're taping area yeah it'll, volvo folks, a map, I think I'll, be out this year. You do or goertz conversation Roma nuthin promotion on No, I think I I I it's going to be out in the fall somewhere,
So even if you like learning we're done my care and like I can't let you know, I shouted for effects Yeah sure you you can say. So you see what happens to me. if we're all going to put it up to spite yeah exactly. But what was like the weird like. So that's the final cut that I saw. Oh boy, yeah. No we're gonna cooking. That's exactly what it here! A version of it, no, no we're going to go back in there and sweeten it up yeah. No, I he got it yeah mark. That was the final, no because it cuts away to like, Because it was for commercial saw, like I had to be shortened, fork mercer. That's how many studies- and I don't like allows so when you gonna commercial, you do those behind the scenes moments because without commercials they just sort of like what was that yeah. Do they know that, should we tell them that? Well, that's that's what the experience is going to be now yeah yeah we're going to we're going to confuse.
Clearly, the bucket handle the abstraction. I've got you. it's a thing is that you set a townwards are like it's a thing, she's doing you, I get it, I get it yeah, it's it's behind its in front. Who am I who are you? What is this so art? So you graduate from the guy school did you comedy your first time an ice gloves, I'd know. Yet what do we straight up jody? so he remember I remember and I have it on tape. Healthy I've here, you gonna betamax, it's a big guy. It's on a dvd now replied. ties in your stuff. I haven't digitize, it turned to something else now, but very right now. I realize so much an like improvising, but that was like hyper constructed one liners really, but the one liners didn't really work or didn't quite make sense. If there were still kind of veering into this absurd plays
This was in high school year when I was seventeen, but also guy came out on stage in a wheelchair than stood up, and I was like my first job over those living near rob pc, I beg all pro rata type, but out of that blood but then I could you get away with that now share. Can answer I did, and then I did open market at the laugh factory, which I still I mean I just weep at the thought of, like my can believe my strength. Why we had a vague idea to do lining up at five. I think it was five thirty on tuesday do. I think I don't know we did what we did when we did. It mean when I look back at me, I'm like that poor kid. It's rules that we have to be kind, we do. We drag them through, so you nothing but trauma under age. In a decade. Yeah yeah, I think, about those open likes. Yes, I was driving around new england there too, like publishing and boeing. He's doing one nighters with new with drunken headline. going up cold in the middle of
environments, it weren't even for comedy of certainly not certainly nigh the. Unlike in new york, I like the basement, maui taco writer later I got four minutes baby anabolic shaking from nerves uniting all day I and then you could stand o exacerbate three other comics ya and someone who didn't know there was a show yes completely and of course, now romanticize that time so intensely, and I mean you yeah, you know that I know I do I like, I fought tooth and doesn't measures anymore sure I do have like working thirty two years. I think this treaty but I do think in terms of like you know, whatever my psycho follow g is whatever I was doing there. I have to look at it like that, like I got through it and it worked out, ok, but why and there was no other thing for me now. I gave us that's the way thing about well. I'm glad it happened, and maybe
resolve some of the problems that I may have had emotionally mentally button that many now now we can, we can the result of you know we can change our behaviour here. Just unite, and over a short, oh, I get it. You want the cognitive thing. It's like. I'm gonna know that not just right. his move, move through it. That's all you can do you can't push it down. Just let yourself feel it and you know what happened so that can tell you for sure, as the old guy ill dish is that you have, We that become stronger, like you do things that you wouldn't have done yet are better for you the end. The conversations oh at its last shorter, like in exercise like I don't want it and then all of a sudden, like I'm doing it, yeah that's good to hear great yeah, I dunno how that happened or to do it at the laugh factory was a terrible yeah
I mean you're dealing with that then you're like right in the mainstream pocket, but sometimes it those up a makes on sunset, whether through the store or though I fancied you ve, got guys in chef, hats and people wearing mitten and the more big ideas ideas. I one time time weakened the potluck yoke, who out and on the patio melancholies when there is just a guy in a garbage banking making ignite yeah yeah. I mean here that time, for me. I'm, like I remember, very distinctly in a kind of, I got some positive god. I don't think I would have kept going or other guy like I was getting enough or something or people kind of go like that's crazy, okay, I'll just mean the crazy or something so landing, yeah yeah and then I I went to new york and I were for couch yeah. I went
barred for a year, upstate wow and then I mets fan oh yeah, your fancy, smarty pants. So what'd you do a bard. Why did you run away from bard, so I went for a year, but then I transfer to n y. U, after year, cause I wanted to be in the city, and I was doing like the open mics in the middle of the woods every night and it was er every tuesday rather get out of here. In the middle of the woods I mean Bart is in the middle of like what were the open mic. So it was like it was at the cafes like the yeah at the at the school yeah. So it's doing that I was doing that and then I was started going to the city a lot Am I going to see show the analysis I got here. I gotta go to new york. So what was the community of bard, though? Like was it already? I mean. Did you feel like you had to place her or was it just broly and they didn't know what you were doing know it was already. I was like no one will kiss me. The sucks like I was like feeling very. Like kind of like restless and down, but what am I going dorky? Maybe
yeah maybe, but I always like it's actually, when I think about it. I was eighteen, I my remembering my dorm wall and it was like a phone of woody Allen. Stew, martin, like the book jacket, a cruel shoes. I hurried up on the fair you like like why not go groups like something so but then and I did go, but then I did trance. Two and why you and then I was like doing stand up alive and then I mean I went to grads go away you because I was like I'll just be like a teacher if I have to, but I we ve got the. I thought I heard them in a yellow. Easy did the great go, if you have the masters, you did it yeah yeah, it's always there for you. I I used to keep that as a as an alternate thing, but I never went to grad school as you get older user like now, you're forty five and nothing is gonna. Take the two. I think it's time to go back, I would just vaguely going. I could teach oh yeah right, but I didn't know what what would I teach? I have to teach a class about me. That's all. I could teach
yeah you're right, it's easier by favorite things. Don't watch em, they could make it create something for you I I would just be like the you know, like word Yeah like a career, regarding something like which I were you read. Poems and watched to tv shows a movie and summer and some cartoons, or something absolutely no more abstract the better. I ain't and I still kind I feel a teaching like if I hadn't I always wanted to be an actor and comedian, but if I had a nod and teaching is go where you have a captive oddy and yet still performance right. It is like the closest thing sure kinder, bye, bye. Unfortunately, the audience here doesn't really see it see it in the same way that they pay to be their turn. Their expectations are minimal, endless really engage, what you doing, they can really get caught going yeah of two or three
which really, whether anything that almost would affect me enough. What do the two do? Gooders, who just wanted you to like having to teach us, have got rid of efforts. Spaghetti sundays in my house is now being made that teacher we're I'm you could live in that I could have been my future work might be, and will say, specials yet but bar it. So you go, but you you grew up in this way very specialised kind of upbringing and your understanding of the art world was was you know like parents, so I must have been a really forget to new york city. I mean I don't but you engage a part of you how sort of lowbrow you got with the stand up like did you sort of like a race, your knowledge of working Sir Christopher, like that was another me yeah. Now, just a nightclub comic guises, just like my god. Yeah I mean I was still I know absolutely around. Like the already kids, I was like the indicated. We are sure you I was like. I couldn't erased that absolutely, but I also had a desire to be you know dirty you're, just like not
remember just I wanted to to. I felt an urgency around being able to make people after your horizontal. They don't give a shit about rangers about ya changes there what's good, they keep their already friends, because I made so much a part of your ongoing kind of conversation. and I mean the language surrounding are and all that is like. I was mary in that and let it was amiss, hyper academic, environmental, of, like the seminar and discussing these kinds of ec impenetrable texts and were like which one we'll just you know, you're really will a con. Dare it on your leg and now would get me like. Did you recover using the guitar yeah yeah sure sure I mean as much as I can to lose like as much yeah yeah yeah, schizophrenic capitalism and that book yeah yeah we all do I mean it's possible. We will ok, guys we're we're. We don't we do, and I would get like to be clear. I would get like high on I would be like and there and I
did. I really did love school like I really did like that, but like fu KO and I would get all like jazzed up and like walking in circles to my apartment being like yeah, and that would that got me excited. But like in retrospect, like his eye, I get it. Does your comic and you know like I used to do it joke about about reading. That's the fear and the joke was really just sat like you know that the great thing about reading this stuff is when you're reading it? It feels like your thinking, No, I don't remember anything But I couldn't contextual eyes it like. I couldn't have an intellectual conversation and put any of that shit into context or what those guys were thinking. Well, you can't read it alone, that's impossible. No, I know that. But in retrospect yeah did you write papers on this yeah? Oh, I find the papers and I go, and you say, I used to be smart, like I found this
paper that I wrote on like foucault near and I was like it actually was like devastating and focus old self that I, like my my attention span has been so you know, destroyed by the family, on everything that, unlike a while, you have the rigour like I do think it important to sit down and read, like other, can look at a challenge and you really think entity that right, but you really think that you're attentions ban has been ruined or you John, I salute, lay a ruined might be too strong a word, but I do think, and it's like hans a thing in my life of trying to go back to that self because it is. We are also asking and so you that you had to do it because you are in school now. So I cannot really, but I always like as not good at math and there's some part of me more math, but there's some part of me that thinks like I'm older now, maybe I should take up algebra again, like I'm going to get it now, I'm not going to get it now, and I've tried to read some of those books again yeah the the dough using
schizophrenia capital I mean sitting down to lose on an afternoon you if I may now. I underlined a lot, but I didn't get nothing. I don't know what they did. I know the word on what time at you. You can't do it. With that stuff. Unless you know the context of the language of philosophy that its yeah referencing, you help, and it does assume a certain amount of like critical theory that you already have that even that sort of one's had and there remnants of it, that I that I can kind of you know it in your act, an idea. Some of it is earnest. It's just you presented his jokes, because it's your way of controlling and now yeah yeah. I know I'm seduced by language. I always have better, I think so, just naturally like performing kind of expertise and knowledge. I saw people doing that other who that's like fun undergraduate, actually like yeah being smart, but then of course, and now we're in a world where it's just like everyone knows for words, sure I base a personality or on lasher and no one is there in a crowded, are actually prove probate, build. What do you mean? No one says that so it's just frantic storytelling yeah. I mean it
This rhetoric around you know mobilizing change. You know. no, actually, I practically no doing the work excavating. One cell trying to on earth reveal to yeah sure all of that, yes, which and then that is the dominant language it. Why can't you just, I think of you just talking tone, oh yeah, in just repeated like like about twelve or fifteen, were then in a cycle. get a bit like that, you're good luck with the body I'm gonna get a peabody as a joke. Very nice, so so when you do the stand up. Where can I watch you know, and I read some stuff by you, but about you. It's like you stand up. You know you d and happier stand a comedian, think envy, but like what did you study in school home, and I mean so. I went to gallatin
at I you which, like the individualist study programmes, so I was like an inner reed. It's like read. It and why you oh yeah, like It could be read adjacent. Very you know. I took classes on, you know, perversion in japanese literature, but also like include anime or no yeah. That would be touched upon sure it would have to be kind of raise that from the canon and then but I'd be, like you know the history of the image and which I already like like there was this reading about lik early essays on photography and people are kind of reckoning with. I could double and ivory intellect benyamin in this idea of mass production and sure I tried to tried to penetrate benyamin india, Benyamin yeah, you know or eleven it yeah we are of, like which part or just like, I mean also, you know like the and the reproduction of
image people hunting, that animal idea for the carcass and not an eye for the skin and not the carcass parallel. We talk about like a shutting the animal skin and like that Therefore, we are now, of course, like this like image, I m so glad we have a handle on where we are now that you day, I'm here now firmly anchored in the now. There is no authenticity and it's just its peered ignored zol card did or it's not carcasses the skin the carcasses, a thing that their? Oh that's, so you read, it is again on the worship this against the rotting now here are you doing So did you like it? I are things that have made impacts on me. Like those of a book about the I'd. I have not been able to source which book it was, but it was a book of photographs in the argument it was making was a feminist author who its great capturing history of images that suggest the
objectification of women, but it through the through the atomic weapons I get near the bikini islands bikini, it's hot, you know, and but it would that's where they test. A nuclear war has been that's what the bathing suit is like. It was right yeah sort of pictures of the the mother, earthen and minimizing that it was all about the objectification through the lens of advertising, and I don't know all I know is. I was asked to leave a re reading of it Oh my god, as it was at a woman space- and you are you actually bowed and laugh. I think I think I might have stubbornly sat for a minute there and then you know realize now they did. Like you know, you're welcome to stay, but what we don't love it yeah This is a woman space in this was like this is like the eighties. Probably there
two weeks ago, atwater, village, yeah and I'm mad yeah yeah, and you have a to be a white man who just wants to sit and listen to the lady talk talk about the objectification when vacation, I'm part of the problem and I'd like to help myself but yeah, so that stuff that blows your mind at age is important. Here I was intolerable that and on board studying what was the deal like the ones you put together. Y got really into like the ritual process and minority, which is like victor turner, the talks about it just about like so the lemon, unlike limp limb, analogy in the lemon. All it's like sisters like over use trio, now drive it. I don't care noting so lemon all refer silica space between speed. susie. I can't I'm sure it's a guy that yet between the earth like isn't here or there, its color defies category, which is something that I always look like like oh yeah. What about things that are between species and
so I think just cause. I felt like that's where I was living creatively. I was like I didn't. I was like I'm a stand up comedian, but I was performing in like kind of art spaces or in conventional stamps here I wish it was considered more art. I was like kind of inhabiting these both play. Is it yeah. Now I realize like that. A legibility is actually really exciting. To me, like that's kind of the stuff I gravitate toward anyway, is your work that is kind of illegible or like define these categories, so I was into thy and then numb. You know richard shatner was is and why you guy you're, writing all about ritual and have a transformative nature of of ritual when link It actually does things like the performer tivoli of language, meaning when you're in a court house, someone says something like it carries extra weight than on the case, on a street away language actually low wage trends. Flower men can actually I and people talk about the law. We like the performance of the law, the way the law performs Agatho, it's like This is all going in so I got all hopped up on that stuff and dumb
was excited and an of then, of course, there also was like this kind of feminist readings of of them. You know women and, unlike comedy and how like stand up or a comedy kind of, was the slick like women classically were either hyper sexual eyes or hybrid decentralized, right, a jury? How to growth but really I mean I just want to do- stand up, and so I kind of like I was considering going for the go ahead to go deeper into this work which is really a gratifying to mean me like really smart people and we would end up teaching yeah. And like there unlike terrorism, I, like the head of the department, was this writer jose munoz, who super brilliant? Who like passed away shortly? after I graduated but- and I was like- broke so into his work yeah, but like very into his work, and I was like oh yeah, that's like a world that, like really free me in a certain way, but I also is like oh, but this is not what, while my warm, I wondered. if to lower I'd, have to it have to be your life. I would write-
book about you know his work to fragment. I mean I was like in fragments of hope. I was like I'm going to I'm going to spend the next thirty years, navigating the limits of the fragment and I yeah that'll do it and which god bless could have had coulda had fun, but you what what party brain, do you think that speaks you do? Do you think that that is an obsessive thing I am a diagnosis. He do. Are you and I dunno I dunno- if I am I'm also just obsessive but yeah. What do you mean? I mean cause the dichotomy of of of. Like you know, I I you know. I find that stuff. Exciting and you're in it seems deeper than me, but as a part of the brain that it seems like you, ve got the best of it to do what you want to do, whereas, like, if we state in it? You would have sacrificed some self. I think absolutely eminence, like it's in it's in it's a humorless endeavour and certain ways sure and like there's also,
nothing more embarrassing, then, when when when something is like busily intellectual and tries to be funny. Azure till I appeal to the base senses or something and like it's, the it's the work, the regular people so like that wasn't gonna work but I m also it's like the TED talk thing of like no, that's not like it's the on a stage further. I know what you're thinking you actually down and get off. This age gets very. If that take you dumb, headset off and walk away there or just be that just do the kind of fragmented intellectual thing with when it when they try to it sounds complicated, but let me walk you through air. It be complicated, ok, so so you decide no walk away from that to be funny. I mean I I I would also like. I was kind of inherently unfocused that our logo,
yeah. I was doing santa every night. I was like in school, but I was doing stand up, and so weird, because that's where you you get that that tension that I think is out of your voice I believe that there is some party you that two resents the fact that you didn't have the wherewithal to stick with the idea. smart enough. No, but I had a virtual, are any of em. Just becomes you, you, you get your context and you define the limitations of it. You can talk the bullshit all day long, it's an aesthetic kings, massive again. had the certain worry. You choose eminent, even you're, you're safe. You have it, but all I will say I mean I make this clear. I try The good acting school mark I was rejected by you. Acted from Tisch were do you say that for it started, so I want to go out of high school talking school or care? No one would have me well army project monologue delete them.
take a shine to it. I I did that and I auditioned at yale and it was offer, but I truly I'm like, thank god yeah. I really think that if I had, into acting school. Even going to happen, you wouldn't know now I would not have been good. I really don't think cell so that poor thing and then you you're like well fuck you yeah work on the fragment exactly. I don't need your training, the area and I still like sometimes like. I would have loved to have like received some kind of acting training or something you still haven't. Now is impossible because you go to the classes and hell you know, I've thought about doing it has grown up in a mike is really gonna get me. You learned he learned really I just learned by doing it, which yeah it's better he's supposed to do unseen part. The watch Barry. I have never seen it, he didn't watch Barry
that woman- and that shows pretty great. She plays like an actress actress who fear to any and I've never seen it done so, painfully well, my guide, the item and I love you now taken a long time this, but I love actors and I think gum but- and I have I m a real fucking weirdos, oh yeah, completely united sonia touching this. Would you somewhere I get like they, not like artists, they it's about the life that they live with the freedom that their afforded because of the choices they made. I mean when you look at musicians, are artists. It's like you, just sit around all day and fuckin. You know I smoke weed and talk to your friend or play guitar. Looking dog now and in you can there you go out it is the artist selective yeah. This is Do you really want the acting? I acted with you, yeah. Most goods have been in front of the camera. Yeah I mean editor. I think it was weren't you a publicist. I was
that's what it was our public on swan, bergs, easy, have published a book yeah yeah further by the us out I do like acting. I want act sure but, like I, I can't abandon that like when I was going to stand up. I was like none of that. You know what it is. She just did stand up for a decade or two. How long has it been yeah? just had my of your kind, the first one I am sent, I'm thirty four so made my seventeen year anniversary so long time. First time I did it really so. What is this? How do you meet this other guy John yeah so John, I dunno about the whole youtu. Who is well me. Neither I mean we've put a couple of sketches on there, but I'd have thought that was a big bullet youtube. Okay, I sent you to blow up with like no, I don't I wouldn't say it. Was you tube? I like that reply. You have river. Even We like and john an early who was trained, formerly enacting school. We did not mean school, but this issue
This is your partner in the special we're talking about that's going to be on something he s, so we shortest one hour. Stick a sketch special for peacock peacock peacock envy. she's streaming service now was it all? posed to be a one off. so it was. We will we about to shoot a sketch comedy pilot radio covert took over it died like just like kind of got swept off. Did they tell you that haven't dedicated a lot of times? You don't even know they were like? Oh that's not going to happen really getting prepare here. It was like. Oh no sweetie. That's gone, yeah yeah, where we actually, we austrian worse business, we shot a pilot years ago for hulu. There was a narrative, John, and I bet that also like die. and it was kyle again. Attacks like we are not moving forward were enormously holding the boxes that he had been told to bring two legs. He should move in a random, so we haven't had anything that actually has had been able to be seen in some years, so that this is a sketch.
It's a sketch show our thought. I shall at a special yeah, see like ok, So I guy watches deck honestly If I hadn't watch your stand up after it, I don't know how I would have been able to put it into some sort of perspective. For britain I want you to like my stand up more, hardly gray greatly. But because I dont always understand what's happening, the I am sure a guy it, because I'm not I'm not graded to understanding the kind of like gum weather. Anti comedy or or are like, like I like. I can appreciate things you, I got a lot of time on my. What am I watching and what is happening here. Am I missing something with not anti comedy yeah I mean John and I, we met in new york, and we just like, became like instant. turkey. Bulgaria was like an uncanny has shared language, and similar references
and we are- we just became very close, and yet we made videos like I feel like work, were kind of still like clinging on This era of commie that we came up, which was like the sketch, the short, the like six minutes, the hunger and have it and also but weird she had to be. I obviously because, like a lot of times like, if I think Eric. I understand tim and Eric, and I understand TIM Robinson, and he makes me I get Eric Andre. I get a lot of things yeah, but sometimes like I can't help but think like. Are they making fun of me You might have a canadian no yeah, I'm in this. These are like you know. Some sketches or or plain different characters are sort of earth framed around is it I, like. You, were once a comedy to this,
if the airline there were like the most famous comedians who ever lived and we suffered a very public breaking up and now we're coming back together for this televised event hosted by meredith Vieira who you dragged into this yeah, god bless her for saying, yeah, still a shock that convinced you are going to have to just hire someone to play an anchor and Did she have fun? Yes, she was so like you weirdly, professional and use it gary. Like others, you know she's like lives on television and she's, but she's so warm like she doesn't have like the kind of like a grating. She is, and she like you, When you meet her in person, you I I don't even off I'm supposed to be meeting of this real person. I was blown away by her and she and she just elevates the whole thing because it makes it seem like They re allergy area completely. So the concept was you just. That was the framework. as you are, wants a comedy came and you're gonna. U, As a reuniting meredith theorist show me, I mean you can Oh then, these other planet,
just have random sketches just as an excuse to do like whenever characters we want ya. Tell me about Ghana psych morning, radio douche bag, then tell me the young of the idea of paying for things with carmen so those who lose another jargon and folks or John- and I am its imagining a world- were hot caramel money. So that's truly just the John and I for years have done because restaurants are like Then a lot. We love restaurants, emory. I obsessed with nigeria kind of the social performance of paying and who pays your nose into thy. So we now have a joke of liking. one time or at a restaurant and, like I think, John It's the waiter, like these guys, take hot carmel and, like the guy was like yeah. I remember like that made us laugh so hard. We were imagining like what, if we just to pay the check, we just poured car on the bill seen out very stupid in church just died there, but
it's a running joke. We were like we just kind of insisted, we're like we're going to have. So there are a few different sketches in the special where characters are paying for bills with hot carmel. Why I like to highlight the are the I like the the idea that you have to bring your will your little happily a hot play with syria? That's funny because you do there's all these different ways to pay. Now. You know of course. Now in retrospect you know we're like. Oh. Could that be read as some kind of like skating criticism crypto or something in our like now. I was truly just carmen. course, like money is inherently abstract, her yell something so you do that with everything. Did you think along those lines where you deconstructed abstract it to them? whenever you damage ability, I hope not you don't like when you write things. Do you like you think about how it's going to re re received or how it's going to be broken down? You break it down. Sure
I mean I'm, I'm working on a new show right now, but it's like not it's a stage. So it's a live show. So I guess I'm I'm I'm prevent myself from say one woman show, but it's not my stand up, but it is me on stage alone, but it won't it some, oh god, yeah for what he can do. Are you gonna talk about yourself, you'll, see it's like you. I mean it's on something that I'm taking to new york in the fall. The euro area. yeah. I've been working at every like a lot, the lesion down here on riverside and what does it do just rent the spruce noise, figures show to sell something. I've been doing like a million, shows they're trying to figure it out. No change, lots and very useful. I mean like two or in fifteen twenty minutes juncture. Where our are you are you judea workin out yeah yeah, but it's me more constructed than it really like. Isn't my stand up it's and it's more
Actually, it's hunt him about me or this version of myself, putting on the show, but the shows our early work. It's kind of a moralising incirlik about failure. Help me sound, so pretentious it's coming about the aesthetic failure to exert failure. Yeah, I mean you're right. It's also not that energy using language to make it sound like something. Are you putting something together to protect yourself from the possibility of your own failure of actually being seen? I'm just trying to evade actually ang revealed again, I don't you. Dare luck. Is that the whole thing I think back there is a thing in this show about where I'm talking about, I'm gonna reveal something entire about something like setting the stages as something sure new vulnerable and then as I have no trauma to mine, and so you know I'm left with that left my degrees. But I do not have any trauma mine there, all lowercase tea, which are still tease.
what did you put them all together, a hippy yeah yeah, absolutely the string of little t's, the little ones compact. There are still way that, oh so do you, because I he mentioned that in the stand up to that that you don't feel entitled to talk about. your trauma in a way that defines you for reasons that you don't. We like that shit anyways but I'll, see your traumas, not big enough yeah I think, like I typically d talk about myself in my stand out there I never like autobiography like I'm in their. It's me talk voice. I wish your drug without let go of me and I'm their zero. It of its gonna be inherently about me right, but I didn't speak explicitly about my life for the detail with my life and part of that, a lot of comics. That do that. I mean of course, of course, MIKE most of 'em yeah yeah, I mean generally. Maybe this generation not so much yeah. It seems returning now I mean I was always sort of autobiography.
Nobody out? It seems like it's such a righteous thing to do. Is it the other there is a term backed autobiographies. I know I don't think that was ever there like. Oh, if there's a turn back to anything at some, was it's it's a turn back to what was bad about the one person show movement. He I don't know where we are now. No, I think, there's a whole side where there is a very defined kind of almost and sort of group think fascistic tribal eyes comedy is that is found its footing in a bad way in terms of what represents culturally and then on the other side of that they're. Just a lot of people sort of like there's no unified There is no unified front against you know. What is your becoming the the bullying of of anything different. No, there is definitely now the sort of gaul seems to be like over
unification. Are you know it's a kind of like maker self, politically ledge instantly so people can recognize like I'm like you, I'm not like you and me, and it's kind of, of course, divided into a little groups. We more easily marketed to on instagram. So it's like fry. There is, as I death of the monoculture in this way, we're getting also a sort of like john, and I like there is something like love working alone, but I love also having like I do. Like something about that thing for us is sort of romantic and harkin's. The sick, their time here, and this sort of fantasy, like like universe like this the myth of like the universal culture or something that would be like universally adored. Her love, like that's a fantasy that we kind of play with at the beginning of the special used to be that way. Yeah like there's something like and and now you know, that's an imac. Chernobyl weird it's happened very quickly. Really, oh yeah and everything is. Is it I don't? I don't want to use with fragmented casualty used, there might not be that by now you to be using a correctly, but it does so
that everybody finds their own pocket and that the the of community or collective is, is limited right Well, it's like hyper individual and insisted on because, like what you do like as a stand up its stand up, it's like you Sarah silverman Sarah doesn't volunteer about her life is Santa its jokes, total and and its and she's doing a thing. She has the character up there I mean it. in earlier, like things that I loved was like well, Jesus is magic. Like changed my life fundamentally yeah yeah, I can find a park it like that, you don't have to hurt yourself to do comedy in a way the right, yeah. It's really because even I think about it, makes me feel like instantly sort of like the scene. Some day I was startling It's amazing, just even in the last ten years. Of course, her I think about you were taken earlier like doing these horrifying open my eggs in the basement, maui taco,
That is already like an antiquated history like that is no longer how people know. Therefore them that's what that's? What I'm kind of talking about at the entire sort of infrastructure of alternative comedy collapsed yeah and nothing came out of it. Yeah really yeah. And you know, I canals wearing superhero outfits and you know and Jonah is you're doing amnesty three thousand a year like by like there is on the other side. There is a very sort of unit, five weird cultural phenomenon around a comedy and- and I won't bullshit here, but over here in this world- it's just a bunch of like strangely self, involve people wandering around and show up on stages and then bo burnham says: what's go in here with a camera, yeah yeah, I don't know I you know and thinking about it a lot lately, though, but like you, but interesting about you, though? An inn in in the idea, that you're not show you but in the same way that Shapiro, like whatever fuck shapiro was, he was honest yeah,
I don't think you're being dishonest and what again, I think that the eu, despite you're unwillingness to did did to address often is it your vulnerability that the way your brain works and what you are in the moment of improper info. Eyes in those moments that you actually have in real time which your kind of addicted to You mean something and then they are revealing its just a type of comedy, but I dont think its cause. Rick, you know rick was out of his fuck. Am I but on purpose now, like you know when he turned it off. I can't, is your mumbling little jewish guy yeah, but when he was, broken open world possibilities could happen in other voices could come. I mean that's. Why shit now. So what I m saying is you're being realer than you think think, I am truly moved by the rick shapiro comparison. I did that came up for your. I I mean yes, would agree also. They like
see. I think performance like there is inherent vulnerability or attempt like of cordial naked. It's like, unlike please, like you know, it's so naked. So of course I am like utterly exposed and away or yet- and I wanted to do your own yeah like I want her. I would you know the performers. I love like there's a good, nah city or something like always want people to be let in Indonesia anyone out and you give room like I. You know I write everything that I do on stage. It all starts up there in conversation and privacy it, but there's something about that that, like like you're, not why, whatever you repeat you know, there's no ordered It necessarily- and you know they're just old thing, the other things that come up to spark other things, but but I think that doing it. That way, it's it's it's alive for us in a lot of people. Dont really do it that way, because it sort of like here's, the act yeah
but I feel that that when you live in the present onstage and not just in a manipulative way it, it is something unique, I hope so yes m, and I think that the much of what it would join as improvised and like a lie like in the special yarly I may railways, you have, as you know, a plan or something, but a lot of it doesn't at which ends up staying urban. Our favorite things are often I like to hear the sitcom stuff. No thanks. I like that the whole work of it and the owners of Israel's guys yeah, but but I love what you're saying about like it being, I think This new show I'm working on is sort of like. I am. I feel myself insisting on like pour into like life or form until like being in the room like I'm still like that, it is like sardines, what's sacred to in this way where it can be an anxiety that comes in of course, of like you know, should I be like
making these videos are trying to reach more people are doing this like, but that anxiety for me. Never, thank god, fully takes hold I didn't because I know I have to believe that it really is valuable to like make us make a show, that's for an hour or entertain people for an hour in a row like I. I think that is like the thing theater, the army. I just had a conversation this morning where I'm fifty eight I shall do. I need to be on tiktok, a guide yeah I've so that twice in three or they say to you yeah, I gotta know it's for my twenty euros, but unlike book for promotion like they would me. I'm a weird old ban and their charge. You I mean and tiktok the other guy. I have people who I hereby tik tok through or thing, but in there are these things. Make me optimistic. Apparently, right now, like portland, is huge on Tik tok, these, like twelve rosen, Jeanne older discovered, because you can chop up the sketches genetic top like I do think things are persistent things. What
says the liquor loescher, I see a lot of money, but it is only through a year, but oh my god, I can gather yourself exhausted. Alright I'll need to undertake release yeah, really really, sir side, you, my its renoir, sometimes do hour and a half long into groundwater, multiple watch more, that's full movies. I don't care how many extraordinary during the pandemic, and I've built this weird following of aggravated wage women who come to my shows just from sitting with me, during the pandemic on on my poorest into may I add some of the incident lives of than I did a few, those impending make of all how vigour fine words its, it feels good. Some feel it would help me connect and we're going to be an audience brain yeah. Like I'm doing a thing for people. You know cause in the pandemic. That wasn't is gone yeah, so it helped me a lot and people, but the people were very grateful for it totally. I show now during this talk, as did I Was I defend you're insult you're, yeah,
was really hot. You really he who really where they were condescending and old minded in any way, I'm going to need an incident report and I'm going to file it with sag, regardless of whether or not that makes sense in this context, why I tried to fight this sort of didn't like the my initial reaction to I too, too likely feel like I again like once. I saw the stand of a mica she's just stand up once I watch a sketch of mike. I'm not sure I understand what's happening, yeah yeah, but but now I understand, what's happening and united want to be rude or be old. Guy now what I did not have their wanted. I will I do want to old guy you in the comedian way. No, no. We took but loose, and we talked about yesterday earlier more than I thought very nice give me my truly and cooperates? We talk, I'm not gonna, be clearly went far. We did the white paper
that was. That was a good talk. I enjoy that. I didn't know what to expect. I didn't know what make of her and now I know her spare. with John early would kill you to laugh. Is premiers this Friday june, twenty fourth on peacock and don't forget about our sponsor better help. Most people are so burn out with work, but that's not the only cause like in general can lead us to feel burned and better help online therapy What's to remind you to prioritize yourself, better help is to online therapy that offers videophone and even live chat sessions with your therapists live to see anyone on camera. If you dont want to its much more irritable than in person therapy and you can be matched with a therapist in under The eight hours deputy have listeners ten percent off their first month at better health dot com so as to wtf. That's better h,
p dot com, flash w, TIA. Ok, no music, today, ok to some size size boomer lives monkey. Finally, caddies was everywhere. Hmm,
Transcript generated on 2022-06-21.