Though, the bar. Let's do this: how are you what the fucker is, what the bug buddies, what the buccaneers, what the bucks bulls, what buckminster fuller's, what the fuck units, what the fuck a name, means what the fuck weakens. What the fuck seconds for my neighborhood, how area this is marin is doubly tap. What's up, what's going on? you're right, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey! You came in What's what's gonna man? What's goin out, you have more whoa whoa whoa, relax, we're just take breath take a breath. Get all yourself right. Why I don't not want sound condescending, this isn't tough love. Just take a breath it's gonna, be all right. Ok, just hang out man just relax, relax racked with her

I would point out that sounds like when you Well it out! Yet if you in your scream little bit sorry they all work. You might be a good day. Maybe I'm not talking to you, I didn't you who I'm talking to you, I'm talkin, do I excited about today show because I talked to David lowry. David Lowery, come you guys David, that from cracker. More importantly, in my mind, maybe not his, but you know what I like cracker, but prevent beethoven. his guys worthy shit, man nigger apple new albums recently- and we talked about over me and David, but I'm just excited I'm a huge compliment. Beethoven fan and I'm very big cracker fan is well and quite honestly, I David lowries voice always have always how shall we say? I won the great voices rock music and I was excited to talk to the dude, it's guy

Christine, you know when you grow up really respecting an artist and ye know you have their music and then you know they come in here and it's okay, we're just a couple middle aged guys talking about shit but it was great to see him. I came into ampere like I think it was wait and it was it brought back. Memories now know how much I've talked about this. By the way I had a weird dream, where my brother shot me with a handgun last night, I dunno what that, things. I haven't told him about it, but it was visceral and I was just I I walked into a room. I saw my brother. He was a you know. He had a handgun and he was pretty had sat on shooting me now, as I know that wouldn't be good. I stepped out of the room he fired. It felt like I've been punch in the chest and I down in my chest and then I woke up. So I figure out what the hell that's about. It brother up and asked him. We are what what's why you shooting me in my dreams? That's no good, I abandoned some fairly lucid. Lately

He had a dream: s sometimes dream about the ex wife, which is weird the. Only I don't understand. I have not seen or talk to her and seven seven years or so nothing's really happening in the dream. It just were just okay. It is like she's air, and it's like it's cool snow sacks know nothin it s. Sort of like hey were its it will everything's things. Ok, guys heartbreaking her. What is going on with me, you know, like adjusting to sort of really Being alone is not great, it's not graded fifty I am not feeling sorry for myself, but I'm I'm in I'm trying to enjoy my life, which I am busy we're back in the writers room. We're writing the third season of marin that a tough start, because a region thing to sittin in room with six other dude pulse snacking looking at each other waiting for ideas to happen.

We're way ahead of the game. We, the we ve, cracked, oh I the stories were word we're doing some. Some pretty interesting stories Some of them are obvious. We came to my life, others speculative, like to call it speculative yeah. What might happen? What could it happen? What would happen if I put myself in this situation? That is the about creating marin. The tv shows that As you know, we don't have an ensemble cast in a. We have recurring guess stars, but that means all stories run through me. I'm the guy on camera. All the time because it's my show, but that's not an ego thing. That's not a decision thing! That's a budgetary thing, there's no real room for a second story, or what about that guy or that guy is only on one episode this season, or so it's it's, it's really kind of extremely there's and in it all has the kind of run through my character, and yet getting back into the room was a pretty d hunting in a way because I had a minor meltdown, yeah I'll, be candid with you. I was like Heaven

told all my stories but obviously I haven't, but the weird thing about it was that came back at the last year about what's happened to my life in a sort of like alright rights, I've had a couple of relationships go wrong. You know I I continue due to earn a living at what I want to do what is really happened, and then I got into their mode of sort of like what am I? What am I just spinning in that my wheels in the fuckin mud emotionally? Am I just sort of like eight is? Is the same thing winning over and over again. Have I closed my heart entirely to the possibility of love, connection stay tuned. But so what I chose to do is just you know, suck it up. Man up made my some dinner, You may have to sit here and eat dinner by myself movie by myself. Yeah You know you got good movies, been criterion collection, just saying you bunch of movies for making a list for them once you want, you watch one of fancy movies

dear me, ok, this woman skid fast benders. Veer eats the soul. He adds uplifting, so I've my watch, a german movie, I'm feeling a little it's melancholic, so much after all, on a german movie about racism and love. Not not connected to each other, but can love trends and racism and can your nationalistic racism ever be adjourned stood or raced. Can survive. Can people accept each other, not clear Nonetheless, I learned by watching them movie in the state that I was in that there is a very fine line in my mind between feeling, sad and feeling german, but I dont know that was variants I had in my car, and this came to me and I can be a compulsively was I glad I got to write that down, but at this

our breaking to Jesus Christ. Marin! Don't talk yourself in the third person I wrote just posted I'd, rather her myself than be hurt by you, there there's a lyric theirs poetry, that's a little sad couplet that cop, what even yeah sure it is. Why not pow? I just shit my pants old school, just coffee, doc, up there with deputy ipod. Get the diabetes planned ago, looking back on the back and die say that give us on the back end. That's on sexual, the back end. What's what's my back end? Vs movement? Hey! I can prevent beethoven. Let's go back. Let's go back Somerville Massachusetts say nineteen boy. What would it have been nineteen eighty eight issue. I'm living in a house in summer,

before some real got cool before god gentrified when it was just the kind of old working class suburbs with a lot of smoking. People out there is a very powerful memories. There were no duncan doughnuts introduced, big one so used to get that big one, regular, get jacked up on that. That's where that that Jones started right there in somerville waken up. I was there living in a house where they built an entire bank building next door. It felt like an earthquake every morning when there are pounding foundations into the earth, with a giant drop like a crane that just do a giant concrete, like disk onto the top of steel, girders or pieces to town them like a nail into the earth. at seven in the morning. Back when I was still drinking yet not a great time. But in that house, in that There were stand on the down the ground floor.

hu. I had his own record label vanishing point records. You is also part of a band, but he's always down their packaging records, figure out how to make his little record label work figure out how to make his band work. His band was the only banned on the label. Vanishing point records than on this. for you had kofi and Alain kofi was, I believe, from africa. Elaine was approaching middle age. He was a lovely lady. They were together very interesting relationship, allaying the sort of the dead mother of the place, and also on that in that hallway, there was a guy named mark who was very quiet in that didn't didn't quite fit in, but he seemed like a good guy. I didn't get along with him. He was sort of more of a nerd professor type a jew to my chaotic peasant driven artistic. Then further down the hall was Scott, I'm not going to say,

last name, but that he was a dick and then upstairs was me and who else was there? Oh yes, sometimes Alain son jason was there and then his body moved in Evan. Evan was sort of this. Is this kind of groovy attractive working dude you so the groovy man is very laid back. I had an appreciation for that. Guy seemed to have a sort of zen to him. I was like twenty twenty six years old, these guys were significantly younger than me. I was living in an attic, it was blue. I was alone up. There and Evan had all always music. I've never heard of in one of them was can prevent beethoven. I think I heard dumb, maybe out of the way the skinheads bowling or one of those early ones, and I was I who the fuck is that I scamper van beethoven man. He talk like that seriously and my god at I gotta have everything those people. put out

and that was when I got into camper van beethoven. Is there a better story from that time on cottage av in somerville? Yes, there is a yes there is. I found a cat that was my first experience with a cat and as data some girl named Amy and there was a cat. in a tyre hub, the wheel of a car. This will kitten those all dirty. dirty little orange kitten. We know what to do That's right to get back to the group house Zack I got a cat I would mo jo take care of it. I took it that I got it's out shots and I love that little kin and the thing in this, I assume this happen, and this is why I am not given last names, but the guys sat in his room that was just filled with records and books. He was reading about hitler, this tall keyboard player that thought he was a fucking genius and worked at the record store. Who is a pompous fucking? nothing this guy, a real douche bag, first class affected mother fucker, and I

stand him. There was just nothing better than when Scott got a cold or on his mouth and just picked at it till it became this large gaping open wound that was hilarious, fuck, that guy Why am I so angry about him I'll? Tell you why? Because I think one time when I had my betamax camera in the living room, shooting some stuff and I in the living room. I believe scope packed it who last name. I we Scott hochstet, yeah, I've really hot. And here I then I got this kid mojo and scott, the fuckin loon. take delusional, bastard didn't like cats. I have kept my room. There's no luck and the door? I think Scott, let the cat out and then let the cat outside and one I come home and white where's. My mojo word my cat and I'm it about it and then across the street there was some construction going on, and I get on the door in this big dude. You know why the two about he's like this your cat, like yeah

I agree better, be careful with the barry, keep an eye on him averages out on the street and I could take a home. My wife would love this cat and mcdonald's my cats, I love cats too. I'm like. go. You can go against tight, but as my cat, and then like within a week or two was gone down. Scott killed. It reaches, let it out they. I got some shit reserve with that dude. I just hope that aren't going well for him. That's wrong! That's wrong! I hope he's come to grips with himself and realized who he is and his limitations and he's living a healthy life, but he owes me an apology I believe for stealing my camera and letting my cat out, if not killing my cat, the outgoing put their passage guy speaking cats, monkeying, left a fountain, not workin out! Just as weird that they can understand. That makes it while they're eating, but I'm gonna stick with it. I'm gonna leave it there I turn it off and maybe we'll drink out at a thing when it's often and surprising and turn on so a drink,

the running water. That's all I want to see for my investment of seventy eight hours or so in a ceramic cat fountain. I just want to see them drinking out of it like a or found. I want that to happen. I wanted to have him from me. I want to have happened for for every involved. Ok, that's my hope. That's my dream! That's what we're me? That's what stands above all louse! I'm writing! show forming a new our stand up, but really what's pray. Is whether or not my cats will during from that fountain now, you know how I feel about David Lowery. Now we're gonna talk today, the lowery. It was a pleasure to talk to him. I love this guy who of his voice amber man, beethoven that does have some new records out and also of crime. I loved I saw them together with our common, or by any anyways luck

Let's try to David lowry. You got cowboy boots, I almost by to pay you. Can you still feel ok about yeah, because they're really comfortable man? I mean you can't buy cheap ones. That's the only problem. My father in law got me a pair of these and I, wearing a marianna used to wear them like back and then not he's right anything in the air and my father laws like hey, you know, he's got this pair. What name or you lucchese out the good ones yeah. So he hurried broken them in known, and he bottom knew for me. That's fucking, great yeah. I, I I I'm on the cusp. Now I mean I I was in austin and I'm like do I can I do that again? Will you know? What's funny is, if you you know, l a is the great to think allays. You know you have your coastal areas, you know a city, state or yeah. I guess you go out in england, when my family lives and stuff like that, there's plenty of people where these are just two air.

Dasher is what they were. It's cowboy country as it is yeah it's like ranchers and yeah people forget that that's what the the los angeles in california was built on. It's fucking branching inform me that I know, and then there is any Jews came out of nowhere and built the dream factory yeah! That's right! The well! Yes, exactly! Yes, we're going to make something: that'll accept us we're going to create a fiction, but I have been a huge can prevent beethoven fan for many years and am very much an honour to have you here. Well, soldered, be on your show. I followed your career, you have all the twists and turns in the podcast a blue my mind when you see how you, because you brought it nah man. You We are at the edge of it, even in their having yeah yeah artists, the edge of darkness, yeah yeah. Of course I mean you do have to reckon vent yourself or are you have to relentlessly cely contain

you do what you do and then just hope. then? I really has rules back in into alignment baxter. The world aligns back to where you are you now, that's true. It is like one or the other here. If you can like I'm, not one. Those people that, like among and try something else, gonna. Be me doing that right now I can't reinvent I'm not David bowie gonna, yet would put a new outfit on. Try sell that she has ragged edge. I can't be aiming for me but I want to know some stuff because I get you I. I was sort of fascinated with the with the whole camper undertake, I was always a mystery to me. I think I came out it sort of late. I met. In Boston, he's the dread locks and he gave me my first camper record and I'd never heard it before, and this was nineteen eighty nine right. So I was I. Why were the fucker these guys from where did? Well, let's talk about you like you got kind of music. I never heard anything like it before you guys we're doing something that a distant day didn't think up with anything that, I quite understood

That was amazing. Well, I think that has to do with the fact that we didn't really, I come from anywhere. My father was in the air force, so I have my mother's. English, so I was like she's english, english, english accent and yeah. Well, she can go back and forth when she needs to words. You she's been in the united states for, like, I, don't know food since the fifties she goes, back and forth what did your dad meter on tour of some kind or what well yeah? It was called the world war, two fighter post world war, two? Actually so, but your prisoner yeah yeah, it was, I guess you can kind of say we're bride exactly, but that's usually the other side. Now my father was in the air force and he met her in britain and you know in england, south of england, in nineteen fifty, three and see the thing is: is to people in her generation the you know the gangs, like an eager england, there, like wow gangster hiphop reacting like that he has really cool right well to her generation. You know, hillbilly, music

was the unesco here's a guy from arkansas unitary it as from yeah. You know, like he's in the air Worse, he asked listen to country. Music would write a gangster hip, hop to them of nineteen. Eighty three, you know what like hank and and yeah hank Williams. Yes, that's how this amazing my and you know that my mommy is pretty good- was a pretty good or is not so much anymore, but pretty good record collector and, like man, I'm checking out. Yes has like these, like seventy eight of hank, william e p while that, unlike mom, this stuff belong, the museum or internet, donate the step to the library of congress. Yet issues have it yeah. it's amazing, to see those records okay, so you your dad's from arkansas, but you weirdly, some of that british, not so much english, but irish music made its way in do into country music. Arrow. Absolutely that allow that pace yeah the I mean it's a it's a you know that was the gym country bluegrass. All that is very you know

a lot of that comes from the british I'll be out and then it mixes with the african influence. The south may that's how you get american mute and you grandma others to strain the evolving me up. Do you grow up country music. Well yeah, because my mom was english and my dad was from arkansas, so the others, what we listen to a lot, but it was the lot of rock and roll. I mean I remember we lived in a you know. My father got trapped. While these play scored you every osborne has borne in texas, see your texan yeah, in texas kind of like being jewish yeah. It's like you know, even if you only lived there for three years there, like your your text, that you know so we go in play and likes one of our own eyes and bad yeah. Texan, lowery jackson lad camper van beta, but it's like you gotta boots. You got the sharing. I got the better get the shirt so worthy and oblivion went what were the sort of primary influences. Well, we lived in spain and then you know my my father got sent to korea we're living

Spain, my mom becomes more less fluent in spanish. You are what You better not really, but I can say the nouns of a lot of right right right, yorkshire are usually I've. Pre much only been attracted to The war vanished. Girls who are girls, was who have some spanish blood in there that most of my life? Yes, I just that's- imply it's on your brain in the in sam. How old were you when you lived there? I thought I met a southern girl, my my current life. She she's a concert promoter. She has the forty watt right here. I thought I met a southern girl and then it's like kind of name, is billina like whoa? It's her family came from Spain. You know it's like what. I can escape. It is better to be a compelled towards an ethnic disposition and some sort of craziness. Well, I think yeah

My wife isn't crazy, good idea. For my wife, my wife is not crazy, but, as I am prone to point out to her look we're teasing family. We say shit like this to the genre all the time. That's how we stay together. actor. I I'm always telling her is like so nor more girl is here and crazy girl right here right, is not very much it's not too much deeper the issue was ask me: why do you do tat a crazy women? I got well, as you know, really not that much. When you put it on a linear scale there yet. But there is also the argument. As you get all your family learn. Is you can take it There is also the argument that, once you get cynical, did the other side of that is like they're, all crazy, yeah yeah. That's exactly of that sort of what I'm saying very diplomatic way: ok with getting away with yeah yeah. That's that's right and that's that So through you, I want you in spain, over the form of five years, like seven

to eleven or yeah right. When you start in distorted like go boobs, the end is just about right yeah. I just I just have brought about in their ass. Exactly that that's! Maybe I'm partly imprinted that probably what the imprint is in my brain does banish boobs. Yes, we're that's on yeah he's back in is where you go after that at the southern california's. This was going to tell you, as my father gets transferred to korea, so my mom has sent. He knows his next assignments in southern california, like out in the inland empire right. You know out by san bernardino, riverside right, He knows its next assignments there, and so My- That's why you know my mom basically comes out and finds a house for us, my mom and about a house in the barrio

the angolan empire. Here I mean that we were coming from Spain than I like. Everybody spoke spanish at home. She spoke spanish, united societies must be what this is here, yeah I and a hen. So that's we lived in north side, redlands, and, and so it was a nice slow transition from me from serbia. spain to the inland empire and do now did you do any comment or tunes like I did she do any that poker? Well, yeah we do this. We did do a lot of the spending of the last two last. The new ass. The album has, while the one that, without last year, lacoste appeared either. Has like a straight up. You know, I don't what you get you didn't, generically norton your nose, olga mexican polka mexican. Working with them, with with the horns now not with the horns is just more the more countries style stuff we. I should have liked accordion hogan yeah right. Yes, a two step guide me facilities right and I don't have the songless do my head. I I I

then how how do you end up in because we're Jimmy the other guys well started actually in the inland empire, Chris molen victor, where from there and chris Petersen drummer was from asking data, which is just really a fancy gussy up in london, fire will ultimately here and the three of us met there, but we immediately went away to college santa cruz. That was it yeah and then, That also is a thousand weird place. It was sort of like the the latter. The hippies had left San francisco. goddamn santa cruz, and then this weird likes with technology Gee Maths is a weird thing going on their right and you, he's really a collective kind of no punk hippy I bring bands and likes. Ban. Yes- and you know that was also important to now- is all that's all in, like the first record always influences or their yeah, like that.

cain, yo mexican stuff like that, and then oh and anyone the other thing that we have to do is when we first started. We will pay for all these punk bans are coming. We open for people like the dead, kennedys and in a cab. Remember with a side ban to our punk bans right here. I don't know what was your first band, my first band? Well, I guess First ban that actually ever played out anywhere was a ban called sitting duck and it was sort of it was you know some of the camp resources come from there. Definitely more punk rock right funpunk yeah yeah and then we're going to have a pretty good spirit about thing. Yeah. We had kind of you weren't, lying our wrongs. Yeah we yeah now you're largely nodding nasa publicly yeah yeah only in the dressing room, but we had them and then the narrow sense when they called the estonian gauchos pretty much. Was camper van beethoven right, but we just change the name to camper van beethoven, the next summer, where their name come from competent.

hmm well there's got one of the founding members is a sky who he is he's really interesting, guy, which guy David mcdaniel hinted. He really only plays in the first couple months of the band, but he had this really funny sense of humour. We'll know you'd like fire. you like, like I mean, I don't think anybody understood Andy Kaufman at the top right. He totally day. Guy right, so he would do this stuff where he would make up these jokes yeah. That's had all the rhyme. and rhythm of a joke. but it never really made sense right and all the pieces to it. They weren't funny, but he would do these things right. So that was a kind of part of him name The ban is like others, can a sound like it means something, but it doesn't know and so now how does a guy only last in a band two months? What happened to that girl? Because we moved to santa Cruz and we wanted

to come with us by from the into an empire from the inland empire, but he was very religious and he felt like he had a calling to become a minister and he did that he still minister, really yeah so not absurd anymore or maybe he's more absurd than he's ever been in his life. He cites not really sure that ticket he sits me pretty funny got to go from Andy kaufman to ministry yeah. It's questionable his intentions, yeah exactly, and I don't know That's it! That's a good, that's a good question, but he seemed sincere to me so when it was so on that first record, which was what landslide we'll telephone landslide way landslide fruit telephone free, landslide victory. Sorry, so who was the lineup analogy? I so that's the route, that's anthony gas yeah, it's his real name and dead funny cause people go. What's your last name kevin, he went by Kevin.

For no apparent reason. I guess so they did so. There was anthony gas chris mauler victor crewman, knocker jonathan cycle. self David LAO johnson sago the thorough, where the fiddle player, who, when we we to santa Cruz. The end jonathan sago comes into the ban and the ceo gets a here. You met him down there. Waiting we met him in san rise. Not until we went to santa cruz DE win. What would he have to cause? I he a sort of defining and in this absolutely defining yeah. That's the great moment is cause before that we were like this kind of punk ban this this year. I project to gum. Crewman occur marla here actually you know motorcars debased by victors. The bay spend the guitar players. Name is that's great. Go there's also gregg lie sure to re us he's the guy with you now jail. He comes in on the second album bia. It is just a bit yeah and it's just a big mix up families hard to follow all this bit, but

I wonder how they happen. So I get you you know our aid, because I've never tried to talk anybody to stay in the band. That's how that but you know almost seem like a fairly like some sort of weird communal sixties model, what still kind of bears. I s, we more or less try to do stuff on consensus, although everyone, while somebody's wills, control like in a tie, coup data or something like and us differently than the way everybody else given its leaves its it's it's less. Can you there's more or less a hidden operates more also because it seems like at least in the first few records that everybody was represented, that yeah it's sort of like okay, we'll do that thing. We'll do your thing and then we'll do this sing, and you know I mean it was our own record label, so we going to do that. We did whatever we wanted to write so okay. So what was the? What? What was compelling about meeting sehgal? Well, John,

play guitar, but he was walking around with a violin. We're at you see santa cruz, who go banana slugs here, Can around with a violin, and so I walked up to my go. Do you play that because one learning to plants like perfectly concept I appointed a band with. We were all in these other bands and we were all learning different instruments. I was a bass player, but I was learning to sing and play guitar. You came up doing bass, yeah and victor, but he's based by a real. That's I started. Victor was a student of mine, and I was he was my sister's friend and your vice teacher worm informally. It was like my sister's friend wants to play basic I'll, show you how to play bay, Riah saying and when you were a kid yeah what how wet like what age? Oh, he was probably fifteen or sixteen na. The wild yeah yeah, and I was in college though by then he. So sir John things like yeah morning. Two point: zero yeah we're like ireland hay and by the way we have all these fake eastern european song,

Do you know how to play this kind of stuff? You that's? Why I'm, jewish, so clever, yeah, you know tat, you have those we are showing. What did we would emphasise, and I think I can say this cause I've been told. I miss, I always say this wrong, much booker, mishawaka, yea and I'm starving and when I say it s letter how it should be miserable image spoken here, yeah giving you like like. What's I do those vlad voest I've lad of la stocky enemy? It really was just ass. It lying Agafea we're just sitting in the inland embargo what we eat when european mobile russian scar sound like and the reason we played the scar songs because we played with punk man's and they didn't like hippy vibe until we play scar, songs so get away, would like three psychedelic songs until they were like about rated kick our asses and then we're like a cap quick place, Gaza. You know what a pretty scots logging in office again, that's where they came from. That's the only reason it got into the into the sea.

appeasing skinhead, appeasing keeping trying to keep our asses kick. For. Only remember this is the inland empire. Now, there's not like any irony. They are right in that kind of like punk rock, were I right where the there, but you did, they will take the skinheads boeing was like, I would say. Arguably the first hit yeah was I now hear that wasn't on an earlier date. There wasn't on that record. No! No! It is on the four. telephone freelance aviator. Yes, it s, okay, our eye, so that was your sort of iron ironic, shot over the across the bow. That's right! the people there bullied. You exactly exert on music except the whole point of that song. Was it wasn't really supposed to mean anything right through? I wasn't like each line was posted, like than the line following was posted, disrupt any meaning that had come from the line. Previous, and because everybody was so serious? We- No! It's! Nineteen! Eighty three! Everybody was really serious, we're all gonna. Like you know, we were up.

Asked me yeah we're overthrow the man. You know I mean who everything was so serious. You there was an idea that you're going over there, the man while not by the time we were encamped, revamp, eight haven't, I dont- think- was admitted owing to the hours was eighty the eighty four eighty five before we ever actually put it? That's the formative. P and then we put out an album and eighty five, but that was it like that, but psychedelic at that time was coming back. It was for that. First way: well beryl like right about the time, yet you start having green on red and dream syndicate. At the rain parade, but you guys went way out there me and doing my pink floyd covers and like some of this stuff is just chaos. Yeah total chaos. What can you do? tell me, there's a couple of things I get. I have weird favorite camper songs, okay, like I'm. Well, I liked the the the day that lassie went to the moon, a lot I come it's not on this

that's not the first time I like gum, interstellar overdrive out, so I got surprise truck going into a we saw jerry's daughter would have set about. We jerry's daughter yet, and we saw jerry's daughter is about us literally seem jerry garcia at to sir. Somebody goes. That's jerry, garcia, we're, I think we're in the growing eugene or again- and she was walking, demonstrate some his elbow s, saying hey. That's cherry daughter, somewhere, he somewhere north, that had to be what it was yeah. So I mean that's camper beethoven we just lucky just I just would write a song about that kind of stuff. You know when I sort of have it done by lunch and recorded by you know dinner. When you you did a you, did a garcia cover on the what the second first cracker album or the second cracker, which is one of my favorites yeah, loser yeah. What what hundred and garcia's tracking yeah so yeah what impact they have on euro on economy where they important. You know, because no one likes to talk about that

yeah. Well, here is doing is guilty pleasure for gara guys the debtor fucking great yeah. We got to play with the dead. it yeah yeah. I was pretty awesome so well. The thing was as probably in eighty three, if you ask me, the dead were cool. I probably would think but my sister listening to some dad with some loggins and Messina and some other stuff, and I probably lumped it all together? I know what I mean, but but both about eighty seven or eighty eight like I was really getting it and jonathan sago had always been a dead head and right to turn me on to some good things. That stuff, like that. and I remember the moment that I The song? The loser, because that's not a dead, that's not a doubt on a dead album only on a garcia album like the first garcia man, yeah yeah and or it's on a live tape, and I remember that my had come home and was totally drunk and he thought I was out of town and he comes home and put on the stereotypes. Blasting this guy,

cs all right, the loser in I coma have finally come stumbling into the bedroom, because I'm so sorry, I woke up I've like know who the fuck you this man, he has his gray, and that was the moment being roque up at three in the morning herded. You know well guess garcia song, but grateful debts on now is the moment moment that I got converted. You know to the dead. You now is like wait, a minute. I totally understand this now. You know Why me, like those studio records the first few studio records, or at least so I go workmen's dad american beauty and terrapin and stuff. I mean it's wheedle shit it's not yeah. I mean you know they. They put a lot of time in there yeah and then they went well and they and they just who was doing stuff like that. Then and they are the ultimate d. I why band? What other thing is, because you know sort of structurally can prevent beethoven really related to the data like hey. They just cut Did it themselves right that the community around them. I in a waste to have this little, can prevent beethoven newsletter, snail, mail and stuff. Like that, you know

We are in a lot of ways where we were. At our own label, straw Surely we were very similar in right and it went into although much much much less pop, was he right, but did you guys wait? You had this sort of what what would you call your success in their first four albums? I mean because, like I got two years somehow, then we toured the world, I mean we, we had a top five album college. Radio, we probably, I think that first, I think, take the skinheads boiling did cracked, the top fourteen, england, but you know I mean right. It's some kind of success,

what's a song about lbj pissing, alongside lbj's cadillac with Joe Stalin's cadillac love that song yeah, I'm just gonna sit here and be that guy you haters of all kinds yeah, I know sort of a left and right and but that sort of shows your power sort of yeah. We were sort of anarchists sort of you know like, but when you started out the punk scene, where were you in that world? Where you know you would sort of go, do gigs at the behest of fans who would it's like I've talked to guys who started in punk and and you know a lot of times when, when punk rock, you know popular punk rock bands, they just hire locals to open for them where you might sort of that guy and yeah well. Well, well, broader than that. You know we had some. We had a fan at one of the guys who was one of the I guess you'd com and executive. He was one of the executives. It s, t record greener, a use of promotion,

The city guy was a big fan of arza and or what we'll believer in us and he would hook us up with gigs every once in a while. I knew the meat puppets yea not through that world, but just incidentally, because I went to college with somebody they went to high school with right right and that song history of utah is sort of about the mormon deseret empire. He ever like that, but also about the the to meet puppet brothers, cirque yak hurt and chris it's sort of about them, because I knew this chris, and he was friends with them and I went to visit them in his family and in phoenix one time we hung out with the current woods and they Just there were off the hook. Me I mean it's just the there. Out there. May I think you know so we got shows with the moroccans rooms and got to the desert yeah

we're doing a little more. I was all more like vandalism that we were doing secured more drunk and estonian and committing some vandalism, which are much what the statue invitations are probably over with by now, but but they, but I guess that makes sense because the you know the the meat puppets sorta come from a if the battle surfers idea of like, as he talked to kirkwood and he's not he's not willing to sort of classify the type of music, then yeah writing anything camper. Does that as well hard to classify which, in the music business, it's like what we can count on you to repeat yourself so out of get behind this bright exactly at the citizen, a difficult thing. That yeah well, except that nina. We did eventually signed a virgin, which was your label and they do. It did have a history of signing these kind of screwball

all the time you guys, but those records are our beloved revolutionary, sweetheart and I'm pie knows you're still camper records. Oh yeah, it's not like you say like we got a real it in yeah. We get a report. We need to put beat. It runs on their so yeah right here. You know what are the ones who wants to do. Tat is gaining bowling all over and over again at yale worms, yeah yeah. Let's get a dance floor They usually buckled that, and I just realized that that record, not those records, but that can prevent beethoven self title. That record is like a fourth record. Yes, that one is yeah. That's that's actually, the third, but yes! Yes, to confuse people, so we just put about the self title. Actually were following led zepplin so there isn't their fourth record, the self titled. Always at the big when it's the one, everybody calls those actually the third camper record actually does have a title, but we anybody what it was right

is this the way is it who in rearing in it now there's two three years before that written in the remember vile, you could write things in the group. The inner groove of the record ia scratched in the intergroup of the record is soviet spies, swim upstream disguised as trout. Ok, that's! Actually, title of that album, but I'm not going to go. Look at my copy you or we're going to go in after this you're going to show that to me. Okay, yes, as I think I have an original uprising of that soviet spies, swim upstream, disguised as trout, right and that was simply because to get crazy fan letters and some he wrote a letter saying we dreamed your next album was called so spies, or I dreamed your next record. Maybe they did say we which it had been crazy. I dreamed ex down the call was called soviet spies upstream disguised as trout, yeah at that got it is actually the title Ralph.

And that was a big record for or camphor fans, yeah yeah. We had a good guys and bad guys on that. We started to get on mtv a little bit of gray record man, yeah how'd that sell Well, you know in those days I think like if he sold like you, were an indie band and he sold like twenty five, thirty thousand copies of a record. That was pretty good. nowadays you know that almost put you in the top twenty she saw them any records. Yeah twenty five there is no downward and on our own label, to you know, and so was an aim. That label was called pitcher tent records, and why, which is the one that's really play backward stuff. Is that five sticks yeah? That's fine! The five sticks is where we play along to another song backwards. We did that a lot throughout our career. If we did that pretty much on every hour, how does that work? Was it a zeppelin song or something? Everyone was at your song. Did you know the first album? I remember Jonathan victor and I decided to listen to it backwards your first time

and we're going while others who could songs on this backwards. I mean we really. We were the real deal. I mean we really did take like mushrooms and smoke pot. I mean we really did all that crazy, and you know I don't do any of that stuff anymore anymore and for long time, they actually nothing. So now you yankee nears yes, another did you. Can I ask for me yeah I had I yeah. I have my you're sober. Yes, absolutely me to hear. Is that why I asked if we knew from the same people so that not only while all the same people? Yes, we do we're all the same elk yeah, that's right! Well, what did you? What did your way? What album were you on when that fuckin came crashing down green land by cracker, a real. I was writing that album. That's what a lot! That's why that album starts with the song that it starts with sir there

I'm trying to think that called something you ain't got to cover song, but I'd been like sober by four about. Maybe three: or something that your eyes? and yeah, and I was like an on tour with widespread panic. How does that? he did it, though that's one of those grounds. If that's the first obstacle you get past sober you're like yeah, I can do this yeah, I can do it. Yeah I remember we were in the gorge and wall, the wall of washington or now near what, where is that place, the place where you have if and where they have the set out, as a large says, who ass a man and there's a little town next to it? And I remember we're in the hotel the night before I go to find me things like cypher, I didn't. I went over there and two meeting. I was just sitting there and when the guys came over Gaza, he says so. So what are you doing in town you're? Not from here playing widespread panic, the gorge and

Yes, well, come along with you for the next couple of months. I love that story. Did he yes at amazing down and the good name or any daddy's when I realize billy also those kind of things always choked me up. You know you went once you ve been in the racket long enough, There's a narrative, two things where I went when when someone actually help somebody out is very touching yeah yeah, you know was great about. It was here really of modest me by his car and even know who you are Not really here until we went up here, you know is this: do have a good time. You had a great time. And I was a cracker and I was there was a layer of that was actually both can prevent. Beethoven and cracker played, though, shows together, I'm pretty sure both played their shows together. It was a camera beethoven had just become reform. We have catered record to. I saw you I wasn't shows yet was so we did some shows with the widespread panic, but you were the first

greenland somewhere in that weak there. Somebody played me a song by this ban called american minor, a dam of theirs. I heard this song. I woe spoke like like a like a fucking kicking me, bright, all right sort of, and you know I don't know- and something really exhilarating at the same time The governor you you've done a few covers over the time my doing covers now. No doubt man will those too you did with virgin or great records. I love them. And he brought a lot more to the production of those records and that song jack, Ruby I love that song. That was you just made to big camper records and then and pictures magic men that those great cover yeah. You decide on that. One well. This is when the size just trying to to somebody the other day is this is when the music business was good. Ok, this is

and I don't mean like money wisely- I mean like it- was operated marina fly by the sea to the pants conaway. We put pictures a match man on that album, because we had played that song apparently at something or in downtown away and art vice president of promotion for virgin records the first time he had ever seen us thea. He took mushrooms and he came to see us, and that was the first suddenly played so for three years on average and records he's like you, ve got a record, pictures of mass man. I was so high when you did that. Ms haug right, like really area right. That's the old music businesslike there, those focus

group as there's no like no time producers being brought in and stuff like that, it's like I dunno and you didn't mind doing the cover you have the song. Obviously well. It was a little controversial within the band to do a cover on that album, because that album was so specific in what was this specific? I was just a little darker and a little more introspective and stuff like that. We actually recorded that song for our beloved revolutionary sweetheart left it off ended up doing it to make it fit. saw nikolay in with key lime pie, so it could be on key lime pie, but it was a little though Little controversy- or you know it's just like It- was just one of the things where we had the Album minus pictures of magic man It is a dark record, I'm yeah, I'm now and you know just sort of when it got when it got to the point where sore like our manager, who was by no means or traditional rock manager, I mean he was. He grew up with us in he's a hippie dude from

or again you know is this like by no means a traditional rock manager in any way trying to make us sell out. Right said, I think you need just kind of one happy saw Look at record That's when I knew is like ok, alright, because Cacena the record vice president promotion had just been bugging s for to do that for years, so aright Let's just we'll have one song: that's not serve introspective and downtown, when the album we put it on their. Thank god. We did it Yes got on the radio. That was the only thing that got on the radio, so was that you but did you always think in those terms I mean I have to assume that being that. But if you know we did you didn't think of being on the radio right, but certainly helped yeah. Once you did get I mean it, you know your play

for more people, you know and being on the radio for camperdown beethoven. In those days that meant you know you talk about. Thirty commercial stations in the country are not talking about everywhere, you're talking about a k rock that was it for you, alternative rock or modern rock they're sturdy stations. You know and plus you know, mtv could be pretty good too. So I went back in the day yeah what am now, but that was it for awhile. For camper I mean yes, we broke up. We were in a sweden and Jonathan had we'd gone. Are we mutually sort of a will we're not really mutually, but the for the the four of us in the car, four of us ganged up on Jonathan, and we decided that we couldn't really work with him on that key lime, pie record and we booted him out yeah and we It was a tough decision years later, he's back in the band and

What did I do have to say this? I mean, and he might understand this. There is no way we could have made key lime pie with jonathan at that time. Why? Because he just he wasn't in a good play to do that. We need to wait. He wasn't gonna play lass. He wasn't. play, I don't know. I don't really remember what the arguments were, but we do want it. I didn't want to rain it in here, well, but it wasn't. like we're raining it in. We were just sort of leaving all the space in the owl, near eating wearily the space in the album Fundamentally there was also the problem that you know. The record company clearly favoured the long that I was, you know, sort of being the instigator on you know when you write things collectively, there's always somebody that who's the real competence to be in

the gate arise on, we were more ben, you know, and that sort of starts to become apparent to everybody is like well record company likes his song. and you know I don't know they create band dynamics, it may lady bad place it. He s. We are still on our own label. I'm not sure that we wouldn't have also broken not, but with their wooden have been, like other sorts being an outside sort of. Lower security in europe. Most of the lyrics I write mostly- works. That I say yes, Why did you I just I forgot the you covered o death, which is a traditional. What was that about? like the covered we'd there's a band that is very much are predecessor from the the empire. Oddly called kaleidoscope, David linley came from that ban, he's trippy,

yeah and nobody really knew who this band was, except, for you know a few old hippies and this guy that worked at sst records. Who was a big? You know supported us, and he said so man, you guys, must be really influenced by kaleidoscope and we're like who's that he has kaleidoscope? I mean they're from your home, your home area, right? How do you not know kaleidoscope right, so he went to his record collection made us like three cassettes worth of kaleidoscope, tapes. I am listen to me, go holy shit. This is kind of what we do and one of the things is as they do. They cover that song odette. Without will we gotta do o death now that is just the darkest shit like and it fits kind of with what we're doing less dude, and you just saw yourself at you know after years into it that you, you know whatever happened in terms of what was defining your sound at that time was what came up. An earnest, but you will be realising when you listen, cried kaleidoscope that there is a precedent for him, for it

know where you were going and at no shame in right. It was just a mixture of like and we knew they were this in sixty seven sixty so now I got it. I went signal I had to go to them. in an obviously you guys we're doing you never got into that pigeon hole where it sort of white boy. This the camphor sound this airport system does the camp while there is little better camper system, its mention, in its in the lyrics mentioned: psychedelic drugs, you some kind of ball, conspiracy, theory and ufos. Every much does that about anyway at the out, but you know what I mean it wasn't like. There was not. This massive here after that you had a fuckin chase for your life no near now. I see you break up and it doesn't sound like it was a good break up You know what I think was a rider for the new york press, who had the description of can prevent beethoven's that break up that I always use because it is the most apt

and it wasn't. He says something like basically that weedin explode in this fireball wireless bans that we just sort of disintegrated like a urinal k it, which you know like John, we sort of like you again do this album with EU jonathan you to check it out and you know, and then there is also the side banned within campaigning- is aiming at a range of excess was the stream of urine that was coming dissolving. Yes, that may lack remains below zero. Yes, the or the pressures that those bring on you and stuff like that is the urine. That's coming down, there's the monks of doom which, as you know this I'd ban within camper vote van beethoven, which tips it has really heavily towards prague, rocky now, which was not really that coup, at that time, but it was kind of underground and is now you are where you in that. No, I was an individual's right out. Another piece of aid that sort of was happening at the same time. Camper was happening in vienna. Jonathan did his soul allowed within Jonathan goes off. Then we bring in David Cameron

who had sort of play with monks of doom hands. You know we bring him in any way. Eventually, the band, you know the monks of do Guys leave camper van beethoven, which leave me with emma look and morgan victor. or essentially new to the band right, and I mean I'm just like I can't we can't call this can prevent beethoven uk You can't do that right when I mean here like the record company were like, you should just put another bad together. You should do this la, you know to sort of more gently, pushing spagna like guinea bad vibes right on my writings, but just like your gently tunnel, you should put together new compromise beethoven. You know, cracker in turn out to be that at all. No to me it was the outright exactly is interesting. As I can read my brain or amongst adieu. My tried, I do is just not my thing and

cracker the first crack ramos. I call we fuck because it seems to me that you had the freedom to do more neo caught my sword traditionally structured pop songs in a way right and it was rock it was. straight up your voice. You know you need unique to the point where it yields it's. You know you can't can't deny it. I mean everyone knows your voice right. That's great. And in your doing likely, a pretty tight, just rocks on straight kind of uri forecourt box on you know, and we, My two bodies from the inland empire, rhine, you know av. I saw you, I saw it swims allowances go and I lived in swims. I pray touring on that. First avenue lived insolence now closer closer. I live. I didn't. I didn't go there often, but I was I apprehend record and then we years later I met davy with africa elvis costello, but I remember when you going with. You is worrying a kilt. I think yeah-

I think it actually was a catholic school girls back uniform and actually well, yes, you're, giving him the benefit of the doubt. Actually I remember when davy got that catholic school girls uniform, we were in bed, usually the anna and we're playing a place called the art bar and across the street was a catholic school supply. Place and he goes and he says I'm over and get a catholic school girls uniform I really I'm gonna go watch the sickness and we go in there. It's about Louise Louisiana, I it's. I don't think we're in the bible belt me they're in the crotch, less easy, the bible conflicted, conflicted, bible, bolivia and, and- He asked for a catholic school girls. informing the woman says what size is your daughter and he gets oh it's not for my daughter is for me goes Oh ok, she walks up to the door locks. It turns the sign around like it's everyday occurrence, twentyman why'd, you are you sure,

is going to alpha fit him in a in a catholic schoolgirl which he didn't want anyone else coming in yeah. She didn't want anybody else coming in, but she was perfectly fine with it like it happens all the time. What I do is protect the final round, lock the door, and this happens. This happens. South Louisiana was at the tour that first album though or would add as the first well as actually even before the first album. I think we did two weeks on the road. We just went downhill we can and to jackson. But so there you are you do this. You do this band after camper that that's really your own thing in that thing that pops yeah oddly just right place. The right will not even really the reckless right time cause. It's really roots. It's just that and you know I mean you gotta remember that was that that album comes out like four months after nervousness album or something right right. You know it's the height of grunge. There's country songs, reckon minor like rolling stone. Yet dial right blues

the add ons and that album, but we have enough tracks that fit the modern rock format. It just pops, unanimous pops, yeah t next year when I was eight needs now here and now, as if a fine great song had some hard to india had good fuckin build right here in that gorge and finding out as it or yeah yeah I mean we them how to get where I dont think that album went gold at first. It might be golden so you had. He had a good run with crap, kerosene. How is great emmy item realize you put out as many records as you did, but agree our actually still making a weird actually making now them right now in and how do they stop? I'm? U have how's your following held up. Well, I mean You know considering we started twenty years ago. I think we're doing pretty good. I mean we still play. I always joke that were spin playing the same places for twenty.

We. I mean we're playing like the monopolies slams, but we're playing the independent. We were now you seen people our age with kids yeah. When I try to play a lot of stuff, that's like outdoors, and that is what we do rio, because we get a lot more people than if we go and play in a nightclub I have to imagine that, given the nature of camper and given the nature of of cracker as well, that you know your loyal fans are, are pretty decent people and they probably have kids now, they're, probably they come out. There are age, exactly it's good, interesting! Isn't it yeah? It's interesting other! There's, no crackers definite! This little also revival over the last couple years because of the film placements right, you know perks, wallflower were pre featured in perks of a wallflower. Pretty feature do not although we are now now mostly low, is suddenly just any time somebody wants to set the scene in T. Ninety three bang the narrow, but it

it really has brought a you know: sprott young people into our world, so yeah. I did this. U s o tour of Iraq, where we did patrol bases, cracker didn't cracker did Jan two thousand and nine, which is pretty crazy, think we did have memorial day months, we'll talk about it, and you know one of the things that we imagined was. You know I sort of imagine you could be playing for like these twenty one year old, like young workers, were playing patrol bases. We are playing in frickin, kevlar, right, yeah, we're you know just meeting these twenty one year old sort of like you know, gung ho infantry sort of kids. once you know in the in the marines and stuff like that right and everything it says we're playing for them. You know, maybe we ought to play, make sure we're play pretty heavy on the rock and the fast stuff, or anything like that so step out at the first base right yeah and this one looks the part in everything kid walks right up to me, you guys crocker, like our crackers, so awesome man, we sign from my parents.

If my you are be so excited when they find out that excite you in Iraq that you came to my patrol, but my base knows that a big this happened. There was the first thing that happened to us, the first action, and over and over again, so we're like, finally like million other sexually cool work were going over, there were making the parents feel a patriotic justice patriotic and support. in the troops. Just as well are going to support the parents' bedroom. You know right happened over and over again etching that there's actually also they're. Pretty awesome, though, because, like the higher ranking guys were our age and so we always get these cool things like do you wanna know neat with the three star general who now we're like I've sit at his table. I am sure, will go there. Did you feel it I'd like it that your personal politics were were contrary yeah I mean I was against the war. I remember

were driving in this marmot personnel carrier between these patrol basis, with the same whose, where we had the same sixteen guys with us from the second airborne, and these guys were with us the whole time and at some point you know we're talking. There is way, moreover, frank conversation about what had happened in iraq in your rack, from u s guys than who were from american re? First of all that was the amazing mine you always eyeing. Yeah jails and yes at some point, I swear all in these headsets we're talking on the coms between in the little caravan that wherein, Well, you know most of the guys and you know in the band and everything here we know we are against the war, which is one of the guy gus no shit your musicians, man job, though shit. I was never really an issue, and at that point it was the surgeon,

but now it was like a compound said. You know, you view break it pay for right now, so I mean what are we supposed to do pull out when I hold not getting if we were there at if we were gonna, be there at any point. It was sort of when you know you're trying to do what we had right, million runways and I grew up in a military fairly, and so none of this political role in the same way. It is too of other people arise. You don't who can't make the distinction between the rio these of being and enlisted person right exactly and your job ryan and the politics of the war. Exactly right, you bid by having grown up with that. Your dad was a career guy. Well, yeah he's occur guy, but he was in enlisted man to say how he didn't make any decisions about

right while he was doing or was he in the airports the whole way through. He was in the air force the whole way through and and he was pretty sick by the time I went to he's passed away now, his precinct by the time we went to Iraq, but you know and you know this is an interesting thing- is my guy here's my dad and we're watching some news on the television during you know the invasion of Iraq and they sort of four have invaded dear. We ve stayed it has taken over the country and then bremmer whatever announces that their firing, you know the and their dispatch. Entire army and police and everything like that when my dad just stands, operates like what on earth Are you doing? Like I mean, right. My dad stands up and says that in your what are you doing? You know it's completely freaking out. It's like this. If you can't do You do that, You know that I come from a sure and sure enough with the latter. It was a disaster I mean I was sitting with my dad. The moment that happened was you're dead.

out of what you did, did you guys you guys have a standoff around. You know like the war. My dad was against the war. No, but I mean just as being the kid of a of a of a military guy was already there and actually was actually was awesome because he was like you know for the into he was like. You know, he was always He was totally supportive of it, whereas, like some, the other guys that I would be in bands with our new and bans are parents were very You know a very, very middle class rubber middle class. They were more concerned about it than my dad. My dad was always like you. You can join the air force when you're thirty's it doesn't work out. You know, you've got a math degree, that's gotta, be handy somewhere, math degree, yeah have a degree in math and math and kind of did math computers and stuff he's right. You know it is actually kind of handy you'd have a math degree yeah, actually, actually I'm getting a doctorate right now, but not in math I'm getting doctorate in something else. What at dr mehta doctorate in higher in sort of the theory of higher education. So

was at work. What? How does that come about, because I've been teaching like music business courses at a university and basically I sort of look at universities and go. This is kind of a release, expensive and screwed up way to educate people be some ways for some people here in recent years we should do something different, so Y know, you're sort are up in arms about how the music industry works and and and copyrights in- and you know, publishing rights how he assumed to be pretty pissed off, fine pistol as I like, somebody's gotta be the wrecking ball right now, somebody's come out and say: hey, you know in the days when, a record label. This great story. Man might my my mother in law and my father in law. My father and you know the story, but the old blues man you're our the early rock n roll guys. They would go down to the record

I mean go: hey my songs and radio where's. My royalty and stuff like that and they'd go buy him a cadillac which are worth much less than the actual royalties right so my mother in law. Work for son records and my father in law was a car dealer. How the fuck do you think they we should really happened right. You know they were. That should really happen. So to me, like I'm, it's been, you know pretty pro technology having coming from the math computer worlds, story on building our first website in, like nine, three year, whatever liked ass, a common learn, html here and yo and end, but I gotta get to the point. I just started going. Well, you know what you know we wouldn't have put up with the old the above bad old record labels paying as shit so we wouldn't put up with we should put up with this stuff. What is this stuff well just run arguments? Wouldn't just like

mostly has to do with the rate that might have my real specific thing has to do with the rate that song writers, songwriter specifically, are paid by these digital services and in the in the old days, the performer in the old days, back in my day, no really seriously like honor. You know download on an actual sale songwriter and the performer can end up with about the same amount, kind of depends on the format and the label bridle, and all that stuff right, but you into the digital realm and it was you get fourteen to performer gets while the recording gets about fourteen one, what the songwriter does songwriter gets a lot less in the digital world. now listen to the was the opposite back in the old days. If you had the publishing you know, You had a forever why you have money coming in well yeah in a in a lot of ways, and the reason this was done is because I believe there was about.

Groom deal caught between. I'm no proof of instead, he asked me putting on a tinfoil hat and a proof of this. I, like tinfoil, hats, okay, I'm gonna put on the tinfoil hat. Second, I believe there is a back room deal cut between the rec record industry and the you know the beginnings of what became the web casting in streaming in areas that one of the big expense for record labels is having to pay the songwriter separately right. Even if you're a performer, you wrote the song, they have to pay you a separate royalty. That's publishing, publishing alright, sir, I believe that there is a backroom deals caught between broadcasters and and what was the recording industry at the time whereby there, like, let's push these royalty rates for the songwriters down. Kids, can help in this issue in this format. Yes, in it on the digital It's a really specifically it's fairly confusing to a lot of civilians. What I'm specifically talking about, but I'm specifically talking about songwriters getting black. You know sent laugh a lot lot less. You know, that's where you get these royalty statements that are

Sixteen sense for you? No fifty four thousand. as you know and stuff like that, but we shall have. How is the voice of the songwriter not represented in this mythical backroom deals in the sense that we cause the publishing companies are conglomerates. The pub the big publishing companies are conglomerate rife with record label like so many records, has its sony publishing. So there representing the songwriters, publishing houses. and also the record labels to ripe. So they just did this deal without telling you I get a essentially I mean and then there's another rationale which is not tinfoil hat right. This second rationale: that's part of that is that songwriters or paid when song broadcast on regular radio bright, but performers are not right and that is also totally screwed up we're the only work company will, I mean we're. The only company companies, your country anywhere, where companies are companies, company, geologist, individual companies,

we're the only country in the end in the democratic or a free world that doesn't pay the performers. We only pay the songwriters right, so scooter, radio. Why for radio play terrestrial what they call terrestrial radio play. So that's out of balance to see what happens: to do is get like less pay the performers first real radio and what's even the sing out in the digital world, you know but there was some how some people say that there was a rationale that, because songwriters were paid, rest real in order to even out the added to give the performer the record wealth, not even that We give the record label of bigger share when it comes to digital. But the weeping is it's all an indication that these the pair times are kind of crumbling and that their desks, we trying to protect- whatever investment they seem to think is good. Way from them in that means cutting out the art is somehow bright and we were

to put up with it in the old days and bright and to put it up with it, will now it's more confusing because, like the weird thing about the old days is that you know records record. So now Something goes on mine in whatever form it's gonna go online, it's how does in art is even protect themselves. How did they import? You got employ a lawyer. You gotta figure out who you're going. I can sue it, it's impossible right unless you're, where the label and then you can have these large rays of computers that run around in automatically file these notices and send or cut too. we're going to like sound cloud and write like now. If I very independent artist, you just you're on your own, and you have to make the exception that sort of like well, but if, if it is the poor if these people know who we are right, yeah, which you know but that's the scam they run on you because we live in this medium The hunger for content a human being, can keep up for the hunger of four contents, are so free content

great for them and they'll try and sell you on the idea that it's good promotional use for having you sign off on this shit and you in your song gets out there in the equivalent of being a hit song twenty years ago, and you get nothing because you're like it's good bravery for promotion right exactly it's! can racket, it is rocket and its and these companies, make the money off of it, are even bigger than the record labels. I mean they're even more powerful. You know they are lobbyists running around in DC and andalusia, ranging laws and stuff like that to me they own it the loser, is to gain his van with friends and their guitars right now, some artists do thrive in this environment, but it's the biggest artists to me. It was weird, is because see it things is that ireland is kind of a proponent of the universe like when I first piracy is like. Oh, I saw napster, I looked at, I go, that's the problem- I you know what I mean, but on the hand. I was optimistic for a long time ago, but you know

I was on an indy label, but we could sell stuff directly to her fans now. So maybe we just cutting out the middlemen ryan. I think there is actually this period that worked really well and then to work well for me, but me, but you yeah, I mean actually in a weird way it doesn't. It doesn't actually like, for instance, it doesn't hurt cracker as much as it hurts camper van data and cameramen, Beethoven really did sort of never really make much money on the road we sort it needed to come home and had the sale of those albums up. We saw em right and, whereas cracker, yeah, I mean you know every summer you know cause. We had these songs at a recurrent. On rock radio I mean I could spend entire summer, playing like the wisconsin state, fair and your you know, outside

the dell more race track on Wednesday night still have a popular nineties ban play now. I could spend all summer doing that you know and make just as much money as I was making in the nineties right from the live side of ranks right growth. We are ubiquitous. We worked on having some songs that were ubiquitous for never really worked on being ubiquitous, right and so Its we always needed those album sales and stuff like that sales are more difficult thing to manage that forward. The medium and small sure. Any theory I rely on a reintroduction to hamper yeah and in any of the other thing is like another. Thus, what I think people understand about me, is what I'm saying is like. I made ninety eight percent of the money that I ever was going to make any music business and I was smart enough also to keep some of my technology chops and friends. India stuff like that around and like I actually have these I've done really well like doing like I'm over bored of an angel investment fund an attack

incubator and stuff. I actually can I have my foot in beer my feet in this their world tomorrow. You know yeah, and it's like this doesn't make any monetarily like if the if we fix you know the way that song larger paper streaming. That's really nothing to change the view out my window, yeah yeah yeah. It is what it is for me, but it's worth fighting and why do I feel like there's a lot? but I know that don't have the advantages that I and that was one of the things was. I actually made some money on this technology company a bow. Three years ago and one of the things I did is actually put aside a little bit of money. I go awry nobody's gonna they're in done this since lars all rich. Here I'm gonna go. Do this I for two years and see what happens right.

I'm going to go round to all these conferences, I'm going to go to the tech conferences and say: hey man, you guys are ripping us off man. We gotta fix this right and the predictable blow back, happened it's not for they wasn't for, though, not for the weak yo. To go and do that rail. I mean it's like you do, but I don't know I feel like, I made a difference. I feel like the debate is changed little bit. People are thinking, the stuff I mean they're there, let's least its being discussed right, and I ended up like getting in front of congress and defying front congressmen who is last personally with was like Zappa area. Where was the twisted? your guy who got up there, lay snyder, employing niogo yeah. You know its pre funding so that all year, Wasn't it wasn't very much like Carthage here wasn't like now, it's just like a handful of reporters in a room in us. You know it's the eye peace

subcommittees it's not like the headliner committee you're on the side stage, or you know what I mean right right, but yeah, it's pretty cool. You know you seem looking up there and you seen this. Actually, the weirdest thing is, you know the the guys who sorta get it the most. are not always the sun, always the Democrats, you know like people like Conyers and know what and who have ties to like some one this guy's yeah, you know- sometimes it still. Sometimes it's just as much the republican guys coming over to you and going yeah. You know I but you're not asking for a handout. You just want what you're deserved yeah. Well, I can get behind that. You know yeah, that's why that's if that's good support is good yeah, most of us now these camper. So you you took a decade off with camper. Ethically and now you you're all get along now of good yeah, and you know I mean it's fantastic. We talk about Jonathan, not being on key lime pie, but as soon as we played together and I had started working on records. Other people's records together, like it

mid nineties, I always did some sparkle horse enough in two other end, so we ve, you know, there's five or six years. We didn't hang out, but you know we ve been sort of friends from long time, it's great to be back playing with jonathan and ride. You guys record tusk. The vote would mac record. I have to get a copy that I'll have it. Ok, so and prevent beethoven really got back together in say two thousand and one year, but I really play any shows, but we decided we'd record together again, but we decided that what we would do is now called covered them beethoven. His dead long with can prevent beethoven and it's a fake oddities record. We actually just kind of recall Did it and pretended to like it was an oddities record writer opted out there it s like kaufman, and I think we would probably influenced by anti copyright. You know it's like: let's put out a fake oddities record as our new record, we just put it out there

oh hey. We just discovered this that we were recorded a task in nineteen. Eighty, seven on our four truck. We finally found the tapes for that now, isn't it we recorded that the hotel yeah the whole. Album then put it out as if it was like something. We have done in nineteen, eighty seven and just put out there. Nobody noticed These are they. Finally, we did a new album and then just like hey we're back together, we did to albums that were fake thing, from the council on nobody noticed nobody noticed, but of course we can really tell anybody sign onto others bus to figure it out anyway, right You know that's the kind of stuff that I enjoy doing to get hold of task. So you guys are touring on these records. Touring on these records. Not a huge number shows this. One is we did to have: we did a northern california version of camper van beethoven, which is little more hideous. That's luck! La costa perdita. We put them out last year and then this year is the follow up, which is el Camino Roy react.

net southern california, southern california, yes great, you, do a song sure what we Do, though, is it from the new album? Whatever you want. look at the words to something that fuckin summit. The play this new album is funny about. When you make new albums, you know it's like theirs. You have learn to sing all those words yad, like a guy like several reed songs right now and then you add, like another fifteen on they re just like yeah thanks are really needed. That four hundred miles down the mexican coast. two hundred dollars seven sisters all daily

drink in moscow when the sun, I was like a grasshopper sittin on a salutary to say then green. Nowhere you gotta go. You can stay with you just don't down, kissing babies day the download coast is a landing strip,

The brothers got a play for the lord them there for one more day, though, be a good boy. The rest of my days, oh lord, give me out of this place, never stray from the straight and narrow way. Oh lord, give me one small son be a good boy. The rest of mine, the fat, grasshopper on a sweet, potato She saw me com and some common bring surface northern by them down.

Got a baby when she looks like curly hair and the devils better rallies. What we take up north lord them and tell them no more be border rest. A man tells me out of this place. Never change now. Give me one small for the rest, the man and

for the rest, the awesome man thanks so much for doing no problem. In thanks for having me That's it that's our show. I enjoy that nice nicer, dude sing nice talking to one boy, one of I'm going hear from any those people that I live within. Somerville look go to Debbie. Five dotcom check out everything there get the app a great get. The free of great the premium app construe. Our five hundred million shows. What you can leave some comments if you wanting gets emerged, gonna get some more mugs up there. Tell you guys about those special ceramic magic boy. Put it on twitter remind me to do that. Some of you remind me to do that. What else

what else is happening. The trip anyhow stripping trip any dot. Org germany house at this devouring theatre are we doing shows there are none of embryo Levin, and november eighteenth. then I'm writing my show and secretly fantasies about just starting a band. What would that be envied? I it

come on man,

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