Conor Oberst is a virtuoso singer-songwriter, known for fronting bands like Bright Eyes, Monsters of Folk and Desaparecidos. Now with his first solo album under his belt, Conor sits down with Marc to talk about the intangible nature of writing songs, the difficulty in being compared to Bob Dylan, and the frightening period of his life when a false accusation turned everything upside down.
Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right, let's do this: how are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck's dicks, what the fuck delegates? How are you mark marin? This is doubly. This is my show. I welcome you. I gave my guest today. Conor o burst Some of you know him his bright eyes so know him from monsters of folk or from the desk paris, see those who are reuniting to release her first item thirteen years later this year desert heresy dose yeah how's, that for a name. Dead today. He's conor over on my show is reason so I'll miss upside down mountain, Talk to him in a minute, so I most you know about my tour, but I feel like I should run. I should
buyer, as you run by you again, if you doubt I'm touring I'm doing a massive tour start. the end of march really officially march twenty one twenty twenty one at the rochester new york comedy club in doing for shows to get in gear my brain in the right place, thursday april ninth warranted theatre, washington dc friday April tenth trocadero, philadelphia Saturday April, I'm at the wilburn Boston April, sixteenth bear more theatre, madison scots! In April, seventeenth, carnegie of homestead musical pittsburgh April eighteen royal oak, music theatre, royal oak michigan april nineteenth bloomer, how toronto ontario April, twenty fifth Fitzgerald and Houston texas fitzgerald April twenty six outside musicale, dallas, texas, may eighth neptune in seattle may knife the bogan vancouver may tenth davy symphony hall, san francisco, California may fourteen the orange p
an ash from north carolina. May fifteenth charleston, Musica trust in south carolina. May sixteen variety play us atlanta, george, it may seventy enjoyed theatre, in new orleans tickets are selling fast, so I'd better, pull it together from some I've been up against a while before this, how I work push myself up the wall, and I lied about nine of me's facing with guns, I involved on and a shade of nine meis. Can it can wait police? Can you just give me a few minutes? I think I have something to say that will that that will save my life. I think I have something to say that will prove that. I'm I'm innocent of bee over, and I make my case and then They let me off, they put their guns down, they say, but we still got go before the judge. in that mother fucker. Just another me descent, thereon high. Like knows what's goin on here will difficult guys he'd passage
judgment in a way: that's not definitive in its more like you, not healthy, but you should feel guilty, be vieira great. god, damn it man everything's all right all right, I cooked a real chicken, don't recommend it real chicken like a real one. Now like one that was in a cage not that not a free range chicken but like a chicken that was down the wild chicken and, What I think, if more people eight the real thing, I just chicken that's out in the world there, be they beat less people? Would each second more people be there. Tearing because it stringy it's weird. It's must too will be gamey and that's like the good stuff- and I was I can I have my my sad fat cage, chicken or mildly free range. Chicken that's been fed, something to make its size and breast too big
But then I felt bad about that. Putting that chicken through that, but tell you the the out in the wild real chicken chicken that had a life will rough will rough to eat A new, a new cat is arrived. someone. I don't know where he came from there's a couple: a new cats around deaf black cat, I think, is gone and I dont know what to do about that. I'm processing I'm a little sad, but I think he's done. I haven't seen him- haven't seen him around the neighborhood. A new black cat has has shown up this cat is a mother fucker. Can I say that sorry, kids, this cat and it's like the it's like the equivalent of a add pit bull in its intensity. It's got this huge ass, ed, it's got. This must your body. It's got the huge balls which mean I got an open and it's got a massive scar on the back of his head. This thing is ism: it's just a tough fuckin, looking cat.
He's pretty friendly. I think he's somewhat peopled by. I dont know what to do about those balls I said he's not coming around every day. I guess I gotta get that taken care of because, like I'm afraid, it's going to fuck me, that's how intense this cat is. he's coming over and eating and isa is please, stocking around. Looking for something to fuck, that's trouble The cats around here are fixed. There's another little dude around that looks exactly like an older dude. I have been aware that guy came from and the Just I don't know how they make rounds I need to I need is I wish I knew how cats lived, but this black cat may it is a. It is a bad ass, looking cat and I feel bad because there's part of me knows I got a guy. His balls of gotta come off and I know of the guy to do it. I know what kind of relationship as elsewhere, maybe there's a dude. I picture, maybe I'll. Let you know
two down the street that loves his cat, that loves its big balls and that it's a bad ass cat and then I'm going to like trap it get his balls cut off and he's going to go back to his. He and the guy's games like where your balls yo and then you know and then you'll be ostro sized for not being his motto as you once was, and it may be, is headed, get small and then I'll just be hanging around here, wondered what to do it as life like me, except I'm busy very busy over for life, but yet his pardon sort of like what am I gonna do with my life. What is that about? God? Damn man fuckin crazy I so let's, when we hear do we talked to Conor olbers now Abso play some music for us as well. I believe he will come on now. You take this data, big shots, you'll get any moment of insecurity. Oh I mean, of course it is.
It would be like china, no well was just up here with Bruce Springsteen. He exact I'm just up here with John prine, not an issue I can handle it exactly. I saw you over there at the greek you at the show. I went to the show cool. Well, here's. The thing is, like you know, I've known about you for a long time, and then like when we are, opportunity talk. Am I going now. I really got to find out about them. So I had to go back to when you were a kid, so your you're in that your can you a guy that is very up to speed? On songs are very fresh in my head and for the first time like the bright eyes records. I listened if fevers mirrors lifted and cast degas, primarily okay and the last you saw em. So there is a is a good, solid foundation, sure just a great starting point. I, as these two little girls, who I I think that, at the time you were first started doing the bright eyes. Records must have been the private
support. of what you are doing. As these girls were like at the age where they must have been like twenty five and, and they are one of them, had recognized me or something I was like so did you are a big fans like oh yeah, I mean since since middle school, and ok, what should I listen to the right of theft and fevers and mirrors. Those are the ones now those are my. Those have ones are planted the seed man. Yeah I was a fevers was deafening. The first item break through the one at people heard first I would say and way how old were you out in nineteen? so what is so? When did you start playing numbing cause? You aren't you some notoriety before that album though he I'm enough My first very first, I guess court unquote, records which italy, a cassette tape like thirteen years old and right and my arm, my friends had
this little cannot make believe label and we made our cassettes. India sold him at the local level one cool music store in town and and anyhow design? How does that become? Like you know the moment who who decided this guy's got something Well, I gotta give credit to a good friend of mine. This guy ted Stevens who's been in a lot of amazing bands. He he had a band called lullaby for the working classic in the nineties that was rad and then he he still plays in cursive blah blah blah. But he, the first one and then he's pretty four or five years older than me when I had thirteen and he he heard me play what songs and then he offered. Bring his little task, am for jack to my parents, how the ariane and recorded recording my first record or whatever. So they are your parents happy up. Yet we were in the basement and ensuring the attic in the air in nebraska in nebraska what part nebraska home I have no real.
Reference for Roma Nebraska I mean is the average you know, midwestern kind of town is pretty, though it's kind of wash in nebraska. Isn't it it's will so omaha's on the far eastern side. So it's on the Missouri river so that our downtown butts up against this town called council bluffs in iowa, and so it's sort of they join there and it is pretty, is like the Missouri river valley. So there's some hills and stuff the rest of nebraska as you go west towards denver of course becomes. You know a truly a at wasteland yeah. I think I drove through pardon them rascal. Once I got some friends there were some. There was a music scene up there in omaha, I think or lincoln ri yeah yeah, Close together. Wrangling is the college down in almost like the one real city, a nerve like wait an hour apart yeah. I knew a couple of guys come through there like buck. Naked was a guy that guy did you ever hear that serve like a rockabilly outfit and they ended up in the bay area by or something like
I don't think he's around anymore. If I call you mean free beers and the eight yet give you at all, it was but make it in the somebody's. Had I not on that that I remember what it was that it is actually the name. So you replying playing guitar your. What like tat, maybe enjoy. What does your parents give you the guitar? Yet my dad was a model. Is a musician was a musician heat coming, not professionally, but he and he had a like a cover ban that would do all the sort of weddings in davos and staff, so here he was them Malta instrumentalist seated some keys needed some horn and some guitar like backup singing and how he did everything here and they had you know they. They played like up, and he was like the eighties. So they played you know whatever man eater or whatever was popular at the time and and he would learn the pirates, and that was I mean that was kind of supplemental, come glories is regulating mutual lama. He was that this kind of, ned argued in the office. Yet he work therefore
thirty years or something so did a lot of people. I guess a lot of people work there. That's the big one I mean there's died, there is like union. Pacific is the other, the railroads another big lion in alma online, and I conagra, which is like huge a shitty like food things, sure agribusiness exactly lady, I'm sure I just grow that shit, the as fast as possible and without without bugs no matter what the cause exactly and then, of course, we gotta Warren Buffett. as we know other big we strike a good guy, now drawn some money back. He is here. Is there some
as a you know. They get old. They get soft, then add a lot of money. They don't know what to do with totally have this time to help out yeah yeah his his daughter, Susie Buffett is pretty amazing person, hurt she's, like friends with my mom and does all kinds of great things for people and what your mom do when you're grown and she worked for the omaha public schools. She was a teacher and then eventually principal, so it was good. So you had a you, had a father that at least had a dream at some point and yet somehow held onto it, and there was enough instruments around the house. To I mean know they like they were so supportive and awesome. I mean they. I had my first ban when I was like fourteen or something and we we even signed like a label in new york and mike, a crazy enough to ass bright eyes. No, this was called commander venus. This is that even earlier manton somebody signs you at fourteen year, like we got these kids in nebraska. Yes, cool able exodus label there no longer lay with our called grass records and they and they did a bunch of cool stuff in the kind of
early mid nineties like the wrens and now you like on son brain japan's, whose efforts guitar? What was it? taiwan, I had a no actually had a deal, A relation with the curve back occur bad. He has and my dad had a big, beautiful old dread, not martin that I couldn't when I was first arnold I'll try to play at my my I couldn't make it over the top, and so when I went when I was when once they realize like a gauss like taking it serious enough- and it was like you know, whatever christmas whatever and they got me this, you know the littlest, It is one that I could come to get my my arm around so and it will what was the inspiration initially, because I know you get eighty and eighty you get comparisons hung on you. There can't be a helpful in any way
the last. Anybody wants to be comparative a bob Dylan in some ways. I met flattering, but after certain boy you're going back move away, now here I was a tough one. I mean, I think, that like music journalist. Shorthand that's kind of like in own code for they have a lot of words in their songs or your hand. They write a lot of vienna and there he hours as a weird voice. It's hard to get you throw in a clear and somebody I mean was worse thing. We called, I suppose mean about it. It is a bit One way is funny when you will read something like that about you: will it get in a magazine day? take this step to think it that you're saying it about yourself. Well, you know- and it's like no and I never said that, along with somebody wrote that and then a thousand other people asked me about it. What's tricky because, like you know, I was trying to figure out. What is it about me about what I thought about you that I didn't necessarily like lock and wine. I walk in earlier its.
giving when you're an earnest cat, because you're pretty earnest, dude you're, not a fucking goofball sure are yeah in that comes across. I am a goofball, but maybe not in the munich yeah yeah, but you are, you are aware of that. I mean, I sure we haven't. I actually think that there is more humour in some of my music than people realize they come here, but because you do intend, Mme I'm not so much on the early records, but I mean in later record that once a year if you're aware of that sure yeah, because you know when you, when you're young in your prolific- and you know it means something data it's just a moving target for bullies and people that are making it and critics are and have and always am, and our stuff was. I think one- or there was a slight reaction to when I first started going to shows at like the little one little park. Clobber, whatever in town in there whole can nine these wave of like superman
walker yeah, like everything was kind of getting back to that. But everything had to be ironic and everything had to be kind of like I don't really know, effort yeah, I don't really play guitar. I don't do this. I just do this because it in there, while I'm serving coffee or whatever right, and to me always felt like. If you Once I decided I wanted to do for my life and I was really gonna do it. When was I mean fourteen maybe not what I mean I was bs. I always wanted to do it from when I started. I did I always assumed eventually I would have to do something else, because it may not work out right. financially or whatever, but I I always felt like if you're going to, if you're gonna, do it like there's another hour taking it recently in like China your best in europe. So if a if your fourteen What was the process of riding for you, then, and in what we are trying to do? I mean Were you listening to that made? You go holy shit here, there's power in that
yeah, it was definitely it was. It was actually a local thing and because of that there was this one great record store called an aquarium which, sadly no longer exists, but that was where we would all go and whose worrying are like my brothers in our frat brothers, you got two older brothers. Oh, so you had the gift to the older brother, yup yup yup. Oh man, that's helpful. When you want to learn about music, oh absolutely yeah and then like, and then you know kind of they are a group the friends, would let me tag along and the dude at the store. I bet yeah yeah yeah yeah, so there is yeah. There is a certain novelty to the fact that I wrote songs. I came in there and I was really really little or whatever, so they let kind of bomb around and there was a their seats. Makes amazing records. I always try to talk about cookies, whose that is a hidden treasure, but his name's simon joiner, and he's a amazing news. Pike me like team. Did the record store? We all use songwriter in town, ok and big early.
for on me. Still to this day I ll always wait. He put our record pray once a year ago we still work or get up and Have you taken him out with you yeah yeah times are he's gotta amuse gotta go following kind of all over the world, very famously one, sir John peel, the I play one of his albums start to finish, which I guess he had never really done a couple times and like the history of his show or whatever, but anyway he was a local guide. It really and a lot to me and I should have tried to my my late of yea I am, and in what was it about him? There was the year there's some about those workers guys were you there's that there's Simon, a viking no knows about this guy and he's like to us it will carry obstacles like he's. The best
Oh really, I mean in like in my you know how to change as you get older, you're like wow, no, no, no, and in surely he got me to you know he got me to probably those other songwriters like stands there like Dylan and, like you know, prying like whatever others cannot true sort of What was his, what were his themes? What was the style? What would you compare it to? I would say it's. You know it's definitely folk based on his. First is early records, were just guitar and voice, and then since then he's made a lot record with bands vote it's tricky, isn't it I mean it's it's Would you consider yourself a folk musician from the start, because his records, armoury folk records. I mean I I I actually would in this so lake. When I think of my songs is there
The song itself is hopefully sturdy enough to exist, apart from whatever arrange manner, whatever production per downright newfound, yet birthright, and so you are enough for me. It's like the song. Is there obviously the in a vulgar the core progression in the lyrics, and I think if it's a song is, you know, worth it saw it, you should be all the pledges tar on a piano, and it's still makes sense in it can be a can over produce a nose and drums on, and we ve done a lot it out. You know about the irish thing if it is kind of like you know once the song exists its eagerly. standing like make it in front of some kind of giant walking, closet and there's like a million outfits, you could would arrest. In one thing, that's true, I think that's what's interesting about you watching you, the other night. That the choice for whatever this tour was was yeats. It struck, me once it really got going at once. Aster tunes at you, a country van really
I am, and we had the pedal, steel and then go on. You know you had the whole thing and there was a that kind of romping one four five thing sure that is sort of like as a honky tonk, music yeah yeah. So the choice was but then I realized like as a singer songwriter, it's it's dressing place to be because that is formed That's where most, what you do and then you're sort of ipo what what's going to what we can do with it yeah, and it's really up, you seems like you've chosen a lot of different things. Yeah, I e not our depiction wholly. I will I I think that for me, a big part of you been excitement. Making records is no collaborating with different people in trier. You noticed experimenting within You know, I think, ass to make sense luggage at sometimes like just experience to make something weird: it isn't that in to me, but if you can experimental, make a cool, indifferent, but still keep the essence, of the song and like well as rosario like I liked that about the bright eyes records is that there are these interludes of conversation or phone
as it is things, but I always liked it. I know I don't know if it was calculated, but I was listening to it the day before yesterday, one of the early records or I'm like there's always a chick around there's always a jig around like either do like talking or laughing that it just seems like there's at least one or two girls hanging around the band. While we've had a lot of girls in the band over the years, vocals and some of those yeah so yeah then blasted nor to know pretty bad. female musicians, surrender their struggle begin with. Whatever of how it is you are trying to solve with your words, the other yeah. I think it's still it'll happen like I was. I listened to the words and I'm not big lyrics guides weird. I dunno why I'm a melody guy in them really and that's always surprised me just cause because I'm a wordy guy guy wounded by the primary promise. If I can't understand them pretty easily and go back over and over again like
I been recently trying to write some stuff but yeah, I've, written poetry and I've written a book, and I've done that. But songwriting is a whole other animal. You know and and there's some part of my brain after you have five years, is a comic and as an doing this them survive. Now I write, some songs so I was listening to what song craft really is, but but it has to be that they have to be up front for me too, to lock in that's got to be able to hear it problem, like I never understood why so many records are mixer like why, like? Why can you understand? Vocals was most time now, because I think people are insecure about their lives. The hour, so that's it! I'm in our common sort of thing in, like Whatever modern blogger, you fuckin music, that there's a, to me sometimes words: it's like there's so much so that reverberant drenched on the voyage right and I get it to shew shoegaze whatever. But it's like to me it like the sign of kind of a self conscious rising here. That doesn't want to be doesn't
to have anyone have a chance to critique what they're saying other idea. Man, I'm always been attracted the songs that you you can maybe walk away with an and still latch onto the melody, but you can also walk away with like ideas. he now later provocative, yeah leonard cohen song, well overall simons eyes on you walk away. You look like you think, used to thinking now about right, I think, there's room in between that there's a while later more than than Paul there there's it's sparse, so you know going can provoke whatever it's going to provoke, yeah and and but a lot of you do a lot of very good turn turn of phrases, and you know and- and it seems like from early on that your sense of of emotion and air and relationship and spiritual struggle was was fairly strong, early on- is that something you gleaned from listen two to two other bore was at work,
like ears. I am getting at you and when I write a palm or you work a piece of music, something that the hash structure like that becomes almost like an equation, an emotional equation, so I Yes, my my question is: did you reveal yourself to yourself, as you wrote, or were you like? I feel this way and on that I think it was probably more than revealing as I went along or not. No, I mean clearly not knowing what I was doing, in other words, very surprised. You're, like holy shit at s, and they spilled out in very sloppy way, for a long time- and I think just new trial and error of having written. You know on hundreds of songs. At this point I have decided: things that I like and I've got to the point where I am better, I going back end revising and lots of times nowadays I'll write us all. I have is minimal
right, ten versus to a song and then the three that I like the most make it into the actual song. Where I, when I was younger obi like it's done and do all tat man yeah, I go right back to red tape. Dutton costs much it yeah. They make those like ninety minute ridge. All that I'm be too songs on their use is open it up. But but in terms of, like you know, harper taken in dealing with yo fragile people and dealing with with that this sort of, like I know, there's a few songs about what seem to me to be. You know relationships with with people that do better. the maybe nuts mia stuff, we audiovisual, sir. But do you remember what was the first song? You wrote about well, was it an experiment, or were you try and intensity of an urgency to two, certainly who you were when you are younger and I still side a bit
stage, the other night, sir there's a bit of a rage, you're sure yeah I mean I think, I think the earliest. The very very early songs surprisingly, aren't it's not that different from the way it is now. It's easy you how these little observations that you pick up throughout your daily life here, whether it's a conversation with some honour, maybe something you on tv. I read in the paper air, whatever these little sir things that you grubbing notice and then for me, they kind of collect in the back of my mine and so my subconscious, and then you know those. I think that the miracle or whatever of creativity is the way that those things all blue. Together and then come out in the end, the songs that I don't I still can't like sit down in law. the song. You know if you would like write me, a sign Have our something I could probably make
song, but it would be not good enough right, and so so much of it is waiting for that special kind of inspiration that comes searches, couple, sometimes even yeah, yeah yeah. I got a notebook with the end. You just chased him down as a hit you yeah, it's like some me out to some mammies that like sticks in my mind, and I always feel like the at times all I'll sing, a song of myself. I have an idea for a song in then I won't, I won't get the tape recorder? I won't get to the guitar and in the next by the next day gone. You know worst one worst when there's a convened, a pandemic, yeah yeah, but coming and it turns out that, in the sense of like I feel like will maybe those are the ones that worm into, because I find that though, the ones that stick with me that I am can't shake and those ideas I can't shake- are the ones that make for better So you can actually build out from an image liking, again, you know. If you have a momentary, I call you shit. I don't owe pisa yeah fragment of poetry,
yeah, just something else that I want. I wrote a song one time after on two I the pharmacy slash liquor or when I learned how they're the same thing here and you know as I go to work with you know my girlfriend at the time or whatever and like going in to like get our vodka or whatever yeah, and there was those you know, those the drive thru lines where people get their medicine out of the window and hours as I looked over, into the window, announcing. What's that smell where this is a little there's, an old old man. Look how tiny that old man is here, and They just look so strange to me like he must be. You know. I know you look like an old, a little old man and then we can background. I saw again that's a little kid a little care with like hands. Yet I gotta go.
One thing yeah, then when I first tried a media here in like that was a thing where I just couldn't shake that experience. You know in that I didn't go home and directly like write about it, but that was one of the things that stayed in there and then eventually like what are the piazza is called danny cow arguments on record but yeah I listen to that song yeah. I mean it's just kind of in one of the verses of it, but here as an example, of something that just sort of like you see for a split second, but then it what's it like watching you and pride and I'm thinking about, like even towns, that ie there do that that do think he stuff and then there are due to tell stories and- and you like a folk guy- is gone dual above, but I notice that you know each year. I think you and towards a thankee it'd, we kelly yeah. You know me because given the indian in there on the new record, the song about the kid
that grown up song that no real sweet saucer. That seemed like, like almost like an exercise in that type of writing. For you yeah. That's doubt that's definitely more of what set aside and I'm your mother's child here now what an anomaly I mean that was one I wrote originally for a movie that was about kind of a father and his bride step relationship with his kids. I was trying to write a song from the perspective of this file it is essentially saying no up singing his son and seen a loving way but sort of thing. the reason yours the good, and the reason is that you are your. You know. You are your mother's child rag, not me man exactly yeah yeah, and so it's kind of like the little twist at the end where it's like right, you see, this is the guide it maybe has amended basket, rice he still, as a lot of love. You know for sure did so that was actually an assignment, almost giant project yeah we always say that one you like that's all
I mean now as one and I had The sheriff I was gonna put on their ever could is definitely more on the sentimental tipp us yet They an outlier yeah, but I did like an american gate? At the end of the day I was like you know. I think it's scan for what it is our shared in style is in on sky mean, if you turn out of my sons as you do just sort of a neatly, I had a high. How do you know when you would Wednesday love and why are you a back and I mean spend the were I mean. Sometimes you player, plan I mean a menopausal pick like
Okay, one of my favorite songs, I've written, is a song called cape canaveral yeah. I like that song yeah, that's one that I I dunno mean I'm kind of picking at random, but that's the one that I I feel very good about. The words- and I asked him together: yeah and the this are elements in the chorus and yet the span of of the lyrics yet get the key eyes peanuts. Impressionistic fisher and sort of s meant a kind of I don't know fly by in a way that is not completely like linear buddy. I like that so, like ie, seem to wrestle with their. There are three points, contention with you. You're, not just politically by with them with religion and with that the year, the idea of of of road In that you know you like I I it seems I go out of the songs. All throughout your career are sort of trying to find that space. If that space exists.
there's a lot of equations. As you said, a poetically that end in the present. I did I we had this. We got this, but the now we're we're at yeah. Probably germany. I went to drew up catholic school did you grow up believe in it? I mean and my parents were always pretty cool. So I remember the first time I could really make an argument beyond like I want to sleep in yay on sunday or whatever yeah, then my mom was pretty cool to. Let me I mean I remember like europe, I don't I dunno how you grow up at good law, very, very, very easy, going jus how I was brought up. Look of catholicism. There's like this thing called confirmation. We I mean I I guess you like twelve ethnic bar mitzvah should get it here, and so I remember in the I think, your ants six grain or someone or something pretty young, and but this boy the idea of those sites
romania wherever that you, you are now an adult in, eyes of the faith in your taking on as your own- and I remember like being saints, my mom, like you, I dont, believe I don't want to do this and she was like, while you're doing it, for your grandmother You'll get your clothes do for grandma yeah. Was he and I was it and that was the end of india. The word he's dead now because I gained like is there like, I said there is an urgency towards the idea of thrive, if it's figuring it out, but You know where your emotions are going within a lotta. Your songs, seems to be some need something beyond the song. In a word you land with that? like spirituality. Like sure in italy I mean you talk about fate, there's a song. The did the other night. The dead
they tell you, I think you introduced it. Yeah questioning the idea of fate yeah, I think It's still something I I think about uniting. That's just a big part of the human condition on em deafening. I think that Organize religion has reaped all manners of evil sure upon this world and wish and a lot of ways that it would his? I mean, I think, also given a lot of people a place to go on Sunday and that's true yeah, that's true yeah! You know I yeah in what you know: it's whatever works for everybody, not not no. No, I I mean I get your drift yeah, but, like you know, where did you ever like cause? I notice like there is something also. I notice that when I was thinking about even the career dillon and in the inured to solo records that I sort of realising the songwriter is gonna, be the songwriter first and foremost and then use figure out. You know how mature you want that music to be behind. You in the sense that you know how is it going to fit where I met my life now show even your old songs. You know you're choosing this ban their solid as ban
you choose- you're gonna play just goes on the guitar yet and you know by their liking, Dylan would sort of publicly I think who else obama towns he didn't last long enough, but you know Leonard Cohen, is sort of evolved into to a bit of the buddha of salience and and ye know. There is something as you get older that you know you you start to you either get comfortable with or not. You know, wherever you landed with that stuff on a day to day basis and keeping your shit together on where you don't think about it, I try not to think about it. Tema I mean I, I guess I'm like you know a humanist. I think that leah, you get what you give kind of thing and- and the more love and and positivity that you can promote just in your own life, amongst your own friends, in the family and in the end, if you can strangers, you know the more you can give that past.
Energy. I think it is the turn you know. I don't know this kind of about, maybe a hallmark waiter. Look but my main easily or value like struggle with depression or anything yeah I mean, but doesn't everybody to a degree yeah I mean I guess I just know that was I talking to you. Maybe it was maynard from tool or something or he said that if you don't believe in magic a little bit it's hard to be creative yeah yeah I mean I still think them The wonder and the mystery of things is. Is you know one thing that keep me going by the idea of not you know of some. Like what are you? Are you an atheist agnostic, vinegar when at united? I would really want any of those labels by. I guess I'd, I'm agnostic, if, in the sense of I do think, there's things
beyond human scope that we just don't know india and that, thank god, yeah verify, and whoever is it. I don't know about you in eternal soul or life after death right all that shit, but it like, I do think, are part of an energy, a greater energy beyond ourselves, yeah, and that there is There is a way to live. There is there is a better way to live than other ways. You know I like, and you know, I'm not have you made some mistakes, sure yeah course, of course, yeah. I but you know try to learn from moments where will they throw as long as going from the gotta come from after awhile yeah right, yeah totally when you think back on the guy's, a you know have that you are Listen to my towns worth what star with him You know what was it that you that impress you about him,
outside of like this profound heavy heart, a distance, it was hard to visit to hear arminianism a sad music, oh, never mind, but I just I guess just the way it makes me very. Hearts I'll get gets you well, I would say, there's so many. You and song, I miss carousel fairly. Well, who cares, that is on the foods on the first two thousand one of my favorite bankers, but am I mean even a song is famous. It is which poncho nothing as a guy song and india on the lake, Those are songs that come from some other world. You know that MR tambourine man or something you know, there's dishonesty like where you called camp, where it's just like this yeah, it's like there's I don't know, I mean it's easy to be like some. divine channeling of whatever, and I don't know that's true, but I do know that some people are able to touch these things these these these jewels. These, like
will they come just like you said they may come of watching tv yeah like. I think that, like you know like a lyric. Unlike anything else, is a sort of like you can really start with a line and not even know why yeah totally what towns you know claims you. I dreamt that song in what you said. He didn't know what about, but it's like yeah that's not, why not tat the hatch it yeah totally. I mean, have have you ever heard of you written stuff from dream. I how I did have one saw dreamt music, but here is like one. It actually was like, I can remember and make into a song this the my called lime tree and I saw my dream life, a friend of mine who is not not a singer at all- is never saying I him sing and he was in my dream was the song and he had the most beautiful high.
Angelic voice here and he sang like the whole like verse, and course like in my dream here, and I will and I was on the other on the bosses and in the two or bus and popped up in my balkans. Like guy I got out, I got my guitar and I sat in the back. Lounging link wrote it pretty much start to finish like what said he. I get out at doubts that our closest garden into something I didn't tell them about it. Yaya this dog was this a childhood friend or not amusing, or it is a music guy. Is a guy named nick white. He plays in bands, but he's just like a piano player. So I had never heard him saying. Oh, my god, that's hilarious and whatever like when you listen Dylan. You know like what which sir kills? You like, as I know like a couple of downsides, it kill me, visions a Joanna's like what the fuck yeah like they're in its hour I more thoroughly alongside you might know, the answers are in those two totally
yeah it's alright mars, the one I think you'll see that s brain lee interview. He did like sixty minutes the doing interview he did like this is like a sort of reason. His omega's make ten years ago he's hard to talk to, but yea then he started see that actually he still couldn't credit incredible enemy, but he starts quoting that song and he liked he liked me. He tried to do that. Like that's, like that's magic, that's enough! Well, not siegfried and roy magic. That's a real man! You know that's what dillard said yeah it's like something like only sunday. He could say why do you like you, try to do that? He will. I think he sort of like I eventually became kind of rightfully he are defending. Ikea bono always come true yeah, but I'm the guy that delivered it yeah yeah in any artist. He also says that some in the interview about how he's like I can't can't do it, I am more than I can do. Other things were.
Did he got more sparse? as he got older. You know like some of that later was pretty good. I mean I still think time out of mind like one of his best albums great records, but production thing is trippy man, you feel like your ear. You feel like you're in the like some sort of tunnel, that you know they yeah, that the lights dimming at the end of like that was the first time you're, always like nah dylan noses The time is right. The others there is a beautiful, like won't, be heaviness record. That's, unlike all the setting us Lenoir warrior yet elected yeah does river. start just really take you in two, from world. In what music you grow up with primarily like what was your old man into outside accepted practice in his virgin they were like me, no fleetwood mac hurry. I ban jonah, Mitchell jackson, brow and he s up to a certain degree. Like deafening discerned agreed deadline, stuff like earlier
discuss the doubling the officer owen, Pa Simon, something islands like those Paul Simon saw records even that for once my corner. My layer was is running on record mary. I now that song duncan kills me yet that whole album is beautiful, it's crazy. I kept my parents used to play that on the eight track when we were kids yeah, so I get was plowed into my head yeah, but a peace like a river, oh yeah, what the fuck a long time midnight curfew. We sat story. I knew tat and so like I like some about that's on duncan about the guy getting laid you are getting into the tent with like the hippie girl like I was like, like literally in the back of a station wagon. As a kid going like, I know, what's happening yeah, it was like a turn on yeah yeah. There's a lot of great it's what you seem to have some like other influences at that kind of ring throughout the music, all the way like a little rap or punk. Some are absolutely neat. I mean the the stuff like awesome
that record store in this this place in town. That was like them. You know a little like, No all punk rock club a lot of I guess which he call palm gerhard cooler in Iraq, whatever the hell, they called it at that time, but Definitely a lot of that and, like you know, deep love for like replacements, and you know kind of stuff sure may be You do, but you it doesn't seem like in listening that, like I noticed any will attempt at a pop hook per se, but he didn't the concern you that much early on nine wrote for a long time. I none of my songs had any words that repeated so every chorus, different right words, and that was intentional kind. Or maybe one line would repeat, but for the most part I I was was trying to yeah use every last bit of real estate for more words, you know me. I didn't It was a long time before I say
realized, there's something nice about going back to our refrain right He is only nice about repeating some words sure gives people chance to sing along, give the people a jet zig alone in revolt musicians zactly. They can feel and feel really good to get back to that. You know but I also asked again bored with lake you know obviously, on top forty radio and stuff where there'll be worried, it'll be a delight, and you know the two two lines of averse and then you're back the chorus and an hour back to like the fifth chorus and the same words in your repetition analysis, and now they yeah, and now they are a now. It's like that even sing it five times they're going at once, and then they put it all here, put it all in their separate pace and then just sucks, it does suck and it's hard to like, really to this end, I think it is I'm there is like human psychological. Condition about you know: familiarity is a quick
two enjoyment again the human mind. If you're, he things comforting, yeah yeah, that's there, it is again and that's the way I mean us away all all, commercial radio works. Is your play you now they play the same but every, The green songs haven't eaten day, how do you know what it is anymore, and so it could even even good matter less with the song sounds like because if you will listen to like terrestrial radio, they're, not gonna, hear this same sure now many times to the point where just like I liked I must like I fear here because I know a big league player and it's like a nice comfortable shoe and then people must like it that must not be alone. They keep playing entirely. It's weird. I've had some experiences listening to classic rock radio. in recent times the gardener vinyl again, where, where I'm completely surprised at how many of some artist songs. I know and just how fuckin much better they are than ever thought. You'd like
given the ever, have them all with credence where you like what the fuck yeah I they have amazing and that guy Demanding hieing is balls like some of that stuff is like raw. Do. Definitely Who do you? Who do you like like to hear when it pops up for the radio, and you know the petty guy left and right as you ever play with petty? I have and I've I I know I know Benoit I retire and I've been able to see some great petty shows, but but now I don't I've never met Tom himself, so you did play with bruce. I play with susan amazing gracious awesome, person in if he's an interesting guy like where I would imagine for someone like you who is sort of like kind of like had he come around full circle to to to sort of see himself as a folk musician, because I think he he
that wake as he got older and he did I and he had the knew he had the new dylan thing thrown on him. You know he was coming from such a tradition of, like you know, like east coast rmb and totally does soul diamond up for a greetings from asbury park, which rv of is like that's like a soul record some sort of ours and maria Zadig overcome their morrison. Is that the united song? For you there's a song called for you. I am not keen, but you did not need my urgency. That sounds awesome it is my urgency that those are like yeah. You got a lot of lied like that. With these, like just needs a little lighter like a wool cheese and mustard. That guy he has he ever the phone. You can win like writers. They don't always they don't always cannot tell graph, their punches like they need yeah and then like yeah yeah, this one comes like zotto, yeah, yeah yeah and then that one comes out of the blue and just like,
and sometimes it's not like it's it's just the it's just the precision of it yeah. it may not be an elaborate word, but the emotion is so like boxing man yeah, that's what it is yeah. Turning the phrase that's like boxing was: was a lot of your compulsive. it seems songwriting when you were younger to sort of yes kind of manage anger, managed, darkness, managed frustration. I guess so I mean I I always always felons Feel that to me a lot of my day today. I feel I have a pretty priests, your brain, you know me, I'm not like it like an air, but I I definitely my mind, wanders allotted prone to day, dreams and re- maybe not paying attention all time here in so writing as a form of for me to come and get to some eddie, you know and if I am right,
put it down- and it makes sense to me- it doesn't have to make sense anyone else with it makes sense to me. It makes feel a little more. You know attached the issue. This is real He sure then I hands on yet in life. It then it is this a force of good friend, myself, drifting off yeah in the head, yeah yeah exactly. I know that one where you're, like talk to evade Dave Ok, that's a scary part! I'm ok, not talkin! your your brothers in the music racket too. No, my bra, my brothers, are not in doubt are they don't than on the music? in the right, but my mother, my one brother justin, helped start the label very very early on, but after that he you know, went on to like law school. Listen DC and dislike As you know, a guy I gotta.
If you are very three, like environmental consulting. law thing, which sounds like a: thing by, I think sometimes they're trying to bend the rules for saying. There's someone I I mean he's a very good person, but he added jaw and then on the nature of the beast out, there is very pretty great and what was the other brothers. The other brother is a teacher, alright yeah and your folks around yep they have now moved to the east coast, because Frankie, again kids and I actually The things I feel best on the aggressive and accomplishment suppose I feel good about is. I was able to my dad from ours had stuff goin on taxes and record contract. Still I didn't understand when I was young and he he would just do a lesson, for me, he told me to end up. You know in jail
for like terrorism asian, so he I help me in did that for years and years while he worked at mutual of omaha area and then One day I got to the point where my other, like manager manager, was like okay. Now you need to get a business manager and it's just you have to decide. This is dunno. I just hit that myself yeah, it's retards gay stupid to not have one and- and I just my dad do it as I dad will. You It's your job and I'll pay salary and you can do other stuff. It's already doing for me, but you won't have to go up into the indian. The sky building anymore and be happy up there in that weird cubicle and took the the he did so at every that on the payroll yeah, that's good many law and its awesome. You now to this in the yard. very badly your dad totally and then get along with any ia, and you, like the most pro matters like midwestern like solid deeds, I, like em, all
like why should we be old like get around someone is like tax dumping, I gotta get paid governments do your part. civic duty It's interesting ways are making money. Where were you or take Zenda. That's where that's where there were people change in our area through idealism, idealism, dia dies, the tax man, s true, I can remember on getting my first like advance fur. publishing the oh and hours prior like ninety. There's something, and I know it is like fifty thousand or something- and I thought I was the richest person
like ever lived. I was like yeah hell yeah. Well, you get about twenty of that yeah exactly and then I remember that being explained to me was well actually yeah and be it'd. Be one thing if it was like all we all had beautiful public schools. In later you know yeah swimming pools and whatever for, like everyone to use roads that worked in right, public transportation. But that's krg. I dropped that money. I know that you didn't get right, yeah and that's when it and that's when yeah it'd be does does become political, pretty fast cause you're like what the hell like wait. That's you know Do something with all that besides, like build bombs to like yeah well, I mean, but I think that's interesting, it's not whatever it is. It's interesting to me that that other band that you have your your rock band? What's that called again as far as ito's yeah, we've only made one record and it was back two dozen, why are you and I am
we're about to make a new a new one. That's going to happen! It's going to have an x years now. What do you see that project as what? What can you do with them that you can't do on your own? Well, band is I'm real ban in the sense of as the same five guys yeah and as everyone has their role and me right, Those songs we re altogether in the man room down their guitar player. Is you know Connemara. Basically guitar blair. So he comes up with these cool right. graphs and then we all start playing loud and I start screaming nonsense and then eventual Like I write, words do not match the the melody so yeah eyes is, I guess it's more of being together in all of our ideas combining to make that band what it is, but it is very, are all the songs are very topical one I would say that all political, but they're, all topical what's the weird thing is about the folk music in the sort of populist responsibility of you know what was the yellow, certainly there
the woody got recited the folk movement sure it gonna It kind of hangs on a kind of leans on you. Guys are a little bit like at some point. You get to you, gotta you're, going to hit that juncture. Were you I'd better, say something for the people to the people yeah a like there's a social responsibility to folk in a way yeah will I back in, and you know what to tell four or five. I had this song called when the president talks to god and it was a record or anything, and I wrote it we're doing them. The idea is, you are part of the whole air man you having and all that ray. I was so anyway. There was that vote for change to her grass. When I was one to a springsteen in r e m and and john fogarty- and we did all these shows and were trying to get carrie and that other guy elect and I and we owe it fell.
worked really hard going to my heart was in it. You know I was young knight ye right and wanted to work out, and it did in and out course devastated, and I remember had just finished my record and I was going to europe to are today. Press thing. You know you've gotta go these just the straight press tours yeah, which is like my least favorite part of the, go and get interviewed rally, different countries, india, now the height of just like the europeans, definitely getting version maria iraq war and everything rightfully so when he had just gallery elected it's like man, I'm going to go in the all they're going to want to talk about- and I was it was- I was very bummed out, but bruce being as sweet as he is. Like called my cell phone, I'm like at the airport, during seemed here to get on the plane. Uneasily now will you go over the long term. This happened
don't believe in essen and as a real miracle over her own we're gonna fight, really how you gonna give me this like pep talk like that in the airport is so cool. Do not like our eye bruce someone. Do it very sad cruised over there, and I would like a busy on the plane and shortly after I landed, I wrote. I saw a really quick and it's a terrible song. It's not a good song, it's just kind of like a talking blues leah. You know fuck george w basically right, but it fell like like, as you say, like an obligation of the leg I felt I had to do some turn to just do it was more of a commercial for like the idea that there are there was another hour. There was a whole another half of americans that fell. the opposite sure now and trying to get you got. You got orders from the boss. Last called you before you made the trip exactly. Do you still have that relationship with him? I mean whenever I see him or run into him, he's always gracious and awesome like he played omaha once and I was there and he like got me up on stage and stuff so yeah, but I mean we're not like
phone right right rang what's interest. He's doing was very good of balancing all that she had an encoding it in. You know the broader existential terms. You know I e is it he was, what kind of amazing at at at being vague and concise. At the same time, we are now- and I think you you know that do sometimes I you know, could be about anything you're gonna. Take that lyric and it's going to go in, like you said before it's again, provoke whatever it can provoke a new yeah and there's. I think that It is that the political personal will always be intertwined. Yes, yes, and so, if you can tell you a human story, and maybe the sub text is a political issue yet, but you can figure out a way to communicate that to write to us, without you know, being so on the nose which I've been. You know not so successful out on some of my songs, but that's just part,
learning about that. But you write so many c e and you're you're growing up you're grown up in public you're grown up with your music. I mean you know not. Everybody starts at fucking fifteen and has somehow wrangle that shit yeah I mean you like your grown ass man. Now I know maybe thirty four here and you got married. Yet what was that bullshit? You had to deal with with that crazy girl, yeah. It was is a very surreal way allowed that unfold. Well, Somebody wrote a very horrible lie about me anonymously on a common section viii and then the sort of issues you have raised. Yes, some girl, you know were now and the blogosphere went crazy, went crazy and did there yeah I was. I will now is very painful as very. How do you like the world was like upside down? For a little bit just kind. Did you detached from my way you instructed to do what oh
eventually we file like a liable, lawsuit air and and then eventually she recanted in said that it was. Our line is a hoax, and you know it's anyway, amazing how quickly they hear me. You taught me a lot about about I've. Never I've always serve hated the kind of depravity of our current internet culture the feeding frenzy yeah, the predatory, feeding yeah in the way that people you know just there's a zero journalistic standards to anything not out none, so it just is based game of telephone, that goes on in the area where light weapons credited yet and those acts or check exactly, and so it yeah is, there was really it was really hard and at this point just kind of china put in them rearview mirror are still still like honey. echoes in my mind for sure sure, but I also want to ignore. I want to put it in perspective because you know
I think about all the many african american men in prisons right now for crimes that in commit now and for will that comes of sexual assault here, I that is done the greatest disservice, syria to ride. You know what you know. They say what one out of four women will expand were experience. Sexual saw in there timing later that staggering create like in horrible so did something about those feelings. You know that that for three accused by dizzy I mean desire, has played any songs You know I. I really have been written any songs like I don't think I'm still processing it know. I think if you write from that place, so have you written about like outside of poetic, personal experiences, but you know like real struggle. Are you going to how long you been married,
it'll be four years in December that informed your love, songs and yeah. I mean I again. I think your whole life experience is gonna play subconsciously into that creative process. I mean Have we married his Think made me a more patient like happier person. like lessingham, russian around europe, like feeling and about in our system. The hall it for years and years and years you know, and I didn't think I'll nino breathe. music all the time, and now I've got to the point where I realize you know, there's other important meaning as important things you never maybe world. We got a puppy billion every got it? I didn't have. What is it I don't know, man means talking about all the technology and the future its it. It's not it scares me and I don't like it.
What about love the o'connor? You know. Sometimes you gotta bring it in. I know they say that and like well. You got to have kids and raise them right and all that, but I dunno I just see these like all kind of half robots. Now like these little like toddlers with their eyes off the ground, now go buy yourself, a house in the hills go to the mountains, make it sparse, yeah yeah, but eh. What was that song that I was into about the freedom and love the hat What is that, on the new record, yet right up yeah freedoms, the opposite alive, because you can never keep through your paranoia now, which I think is true. If you love someone here, always worried then everything that's interesting and with I'm just sort of like a one is really mean foot footloose in fancy free. He I mean, but in a bigger sense of what is the cost of freedom, the away in a word it? What is the price of it and what is it really young, yet
Is there big shit yeah I mean it's definitely alluring, like the idea of No and I ve got our lives our way for a long time. We're outages another? You have obligations, but I can't do sure why why, whenever I wanted in, I didn't say and I didn't have to stay in town for more than like a few weeks at a time like literally for years, and and I, I guess I do I don't care if I really do that. My way other than the other The loneliness of that now of night I'm being anchored or or or making those kind of commitments to new the person having that trust in building that stuff I mean yeah made its depletes, the meaning of things yeah! That's right! There was that song that the other road it. What is it the road or cure? What is it there, though, not in them
not in there. Okay, here yeah yeah yeah, that's where they may not be true. That minor, petrie state one know about healing is an interesting thing, but that doesn't mean that yank can be scarred right. Yeah, so I mean, I think, is old toy the town. I love that towns line where he says, there's nothin then prettier than looking back at a town. You left behind ass, one I've said to myself, I was always ended. Their mass guitar agony I live in place. Armoury shall be happy to you. yeah? hmm! hmm, he's my friend he's no friends me just now.
skin. Why tell ye casually Wash dub better broke and thus the back stabbed every one he trusted says he sees were no one else can see but if I had half his goods one cheese that failure less dig comment and die in the dark. That's coach, hmm but it was not to be no. It was now me
he's always, I've never seen him cry when he comes to share john find his car assess the damage still burning lacks a challenge, holds onto his mind, just like a kite, good, strong wind will keep on a failure. some common knowledge things. When we were young, we never a. did. We had TAT it's law,
a the money, clubs, a gate issue, Just one more dance he's in same thing hmm was she moves, lag a chocolate bouncing glories spill in around two makes in one word she can do but how bitter sweet his lungs, Jeanne feelings that can now be proven. Just trust me, you'll see. My aim is true,
I saw it for you. suffer la. The the so many times he tried to play it's straight, He just were then work. Tell you body, a but a brand new life will lose its less. The troubles tend to bandy, show the call a law or you
call me but either way How have been none? The less the chew imagine soldiers go out with a bang. Like Hemingway some say. your brain some say yeah Yeah awesome, actual santa great thank bactra, doing my pleasure, that was nice, guy's got a knack got in that.
that's why I'm writing. Honour olbers does go to deputy ipod and you are you deputy pod beads, its impostors, get on the mailing list, checked my tour schedule at the counter checkers been on the show pick up the app. Perhaps I think we go straight into the amp with the buddha the year. The three thirty five
straight in all. Do distortion, three, thirty, five, the
yeah boomer lives?
Transcript generated on 2022-09-17.