« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 579 - Nick Tosches

2015-02-23 | 🔗

Author and journalist Nick Tosches is often called one of America's greatest living writers. Marc considers him to be an indispensible tour guide through the darkness in life. Nick talks with Marc about his work, including his influential biographies of Dean Martin, Jerry Lee Lewis and Sonny Liston, but more importantly, Marc gets Nick's unvarnished take on the way we live now. This episode is sponsored by NatureBox and Stamps.com

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
hey people its may mark marin i am on tour starting at the end of march if you'd like to check from coming to a town near you go to deputy of pod dotcom swash counter this is the marianne nation tour i am going to be doing a warm up weekend in rochester new york that's twenty eight and twenty first at the comedy club and onward to to washington d c philadelphia boston madison mischance in pittsburgh royal oak michigan toronto ontario austin texas used in texas dallas texas seattle washington vancouver colombia san francisco california asheville north carolina trial in south carolina advantage georgia some of those shows near selling out or so that we'd added shows in boston we may add shows in terror dough and maybe a nessie otto i dont know but we sell tickets will probably add shows by wanted to give you all their heads up to but to a deputy ipod dot com slash counter and get tickets if you need
because they are selling and i'm thrilled about that surprised and throve its it's a new world man islets i want to show let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck bodies what the buccaneers what factors man this is deputy of welcoming the show thank you for being here i appreciate it it's nice to talk to you so i want to get the right front with you about this i did now watch piastres yet i'm record just before the oscars because i want to have a clear head i know i after the oscars are done can we all new world out there everything's going to be different notions gimme thinking the same no one's going to have the same feelings about anything everything will be different and i just wanted to have this one hour here this this one insurer where where i am still of pure mine an and not dare not fucked up in my head
the oscars the oscars i generally watch him for a little while i enjoy the pomp and circumstance of american royalty which our celebrities occasionally i enjoy oh i like movie stars and i am now i've been candid about that united fawn over them i'm not some sort of pain during fan boy but i do from a very young age i've always been sorted excited by the movies and movie stars and i and i am certain the excited say that i've had a couple of oscar nominees on this here show i was gonna win i don't ok no one but i do know that he's episode three forty nine of this show i do know lord dern i dunno she's gonna win out she wins a lover she's episode for thirty and they shall you get the app you have great premium abbe angola listen to those two michael keaton was phenomenal lord dern phenomenal episodes of this show this
so to other nominees paul thomas anderson richard link ladder both available still for free that's episodes sixty five sixty six in conversations with creative people but the i do have always been fascinated with movie cars but also fascinated i was thinking about this because my yesterday's natasha s one of the great explorers of darkness one of the report calls to the possibility of possibility in reality of human corruption in the battle in our what's with the darkness with the evil not even so much major evil yes a major evil he definitely does he deals with some major evil but natasha this was one of those doorways for me you know i don't know where it started
for me what they do if you if you have a fascination with darkness can you place a memory on where does it start where does it start i beg remember seeing those horrible true detective magazines on the rack at skaggs drug store in fair plaza in public working in mexico then became sort of fascinated with mafia with the mafia got a book thou the pictures of the of the gangster dead analyze those crime scene semester like eight or nine i think i got my parents to buy it for me at the airport is an inside pity the mafia i could tell you right now with long these women like weird obsession with that just a faces why can wipe pictures of of of darkness fasting in people as i did just a compulsory fascination with same with them tabloid how we tabloid hollywood would created collage in my room and i was a kid you know maybe twelve thirteen awake fatty are
but go in and aunt jane mansfield novels harbaugh sort of early tabloids both are fascinated with just looking at those pick is working at the job the opposition between this extreme celebrity this almost roy feeling an end and mythic presence and then just these gutted police shots and fucking sorted business bodies missing heads and what not murder scenes and the mob and adjust its when my mind then there is also of course hitler loomed large fascinated with darkness like who is a guy look it up there's that which is working pictures of sis fascinate the pictures of of people who were emanating d agnes and then as as i got older nice are due for a look at pardon me i got very involved the art of joe peter within and in an near reading burrows in an sort of excavating human darkness and it s sort of it all hangs error my heart somehow
you just don't wanna get you're thing about having compulsion towards darkness are more be fascination dorothea manson period with me as well is that you know when you ruin get close to it it's it's very disconcerting because her party that wants to drift in and if you ever fortunate enough to have that moment where you like i think i've crossed the line you know either hope you get out or or figure out how to live there if you're on your own we'll make touches always represented one of those doorways for me an end i can't even remember when i read the fur natasha book i read but i believe it was i believe always dino and dino is with the full name in the book geena living high in the dirty business have dreamed someone can the erech amended its its biography of dean martin and some recommended that book to me and said
it doesn't matter guarantee martin doesn't matter is not about dean martin this is about this about darkness misery bout that period and how he would inherit fascination with that period in hollywood but there's no better celebrity biography ever written then dino the m the nick tosh it blew my mind it was really i can novel and i couldn't fuckin put it down living high in the dirty business of dreams dino check that it was my entry into natasha and yet he just he built a life based on research around dean martin and and he d just struggled for access into whatever was going on inside the dean martin through the way of the world that was swirling dean martin through it and nobody end there's an empty is to it through to a very profound and not necessarily that corrupt of darkness that he finds
in an aging dean martin and then i went on and then you just start then that's that opened the door and then i will i got how fire which was his first biography the jury louis which is spectacular more poetic a literal a little bit leaner then dana and then and then i got his he did some nonfiction staff from journalists stuff and sent the unsung heroes of rock and roll the birth of rock and roll in the wealthier before elvis great book introduce me to the amazing when only harris and a few other people and there's the book at the country the book country another journalistic book the twisted routes of mackerel which so what hung up on research but not a bad book and then does the non fiction books you wrote several several novels but there is also a tricky book called king of the jews about an old rothstein the original one of the original gangsters and it has a lot of the christ mythology others he's very hung up with them
with the jesus in with the sin and with the even with the transgression and i recently read part of his is new novel which was me in the devil which was a will a little autobiographical quite disturbing van aging man with a young woman deals with blood but the bottom line is natasha s was almost a mythic character to me an end the getting the opportunity to talk to him was bit overwhelming because there are people there a thing possess the keys man there are people think possess the keys the the standing of darkness everybody wants an understanding of darkness without losing themselves in it that that's that's the lure of it how do i get a little bit of that without become matter well without being enveloped in it and there are certain artists that you pick your guides
annie and he restored and want to minds of meeting him was what sort of a big deal oh yeah before i forget i believe it's been over like it's been about three months i say i can find out exactly but i know it's been i think it's over three months or maybe about three months i haven't had any nicotine but during this natasha interview i did have the lozenges out and he dear dear he did so he didn't show some interest in them and did provoke a bit conversation about tat action and what not so that's that's what happening of its unclear when you reach a point in the interview what else oh i'm i apologize i was on girls yesterday so go dvr that are known tv art go on demanded go watch it online go do hbo on the goer if you're but you know i had a great time doing it sometimes things just get away from me and i forget to put myself but you can certainly go watch it i think i was funny
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started now nature box dot com swash w e f you know you're going to snack so get smart about it with nature box golden age a box dot com so ashley it is now very retrial box of great snacks know anything about what many bruce actually did listen to him but i mean i mean imagine a sit there was a guy like that as opposed to listen records twenty years after the fact scobie different thing yeah may lenny bruce always seemed sorted dated even when he was doing it what'll i don't really know many restore lie when are we kid but my cousin where we had the records near shingled a general well yeah i work ass he was he is using a lot of those old show business you know you a gag troops in bits in mimicking and having always references were kind
the like you serve a shitty comic broke open became this other thing like it was all kind of sourced ensured that seem candid dated peggy mean here i like that an old comment on just guys with the beard don t worry spot who knows you know if these peoples we any good if they lived but that's a fucking good question always in it was a hurried question may i wonder sometimes temptation the inclination is if you like somebody think that while they would have only gotten better yet i don't know me god knows you know you're a little older than me well you know you're a little older than me
get in i wonder that a lot of people like you know the first time i read your book and the reason i want the first books i represent was dino it can be done this in a rabbit hole of liquor wondering you know who the fuck you were and i recommend that both to anybody who gets in show business am i say like those manipulating martin you don't understand what you're getting into because there seems to be some sort of constant there that you're entering a world of darkness that is no way around it even if it wasn't that different time who is afforded the fifties it doesnt matter that seems to me that that all the union the n the structure of show business for some reason given the money in the idea of entertaining people there's gonna be an m no sir there's gonna be a darkness so that you can walk into a come a complete door complete emptiness and something's do never change you boy easy it's like it
like i was trying to figure out how is gonna go about talking about this because it the ones i've read you i've already know once or twice how fire red and your country i read them what does want to research country her was research in the sense that it was the first book i ever published and the research was so intense biggest i was putting off the writing of it so did you do you get much easier to to write to write a book when you not writing in order you see this is all further book it has for you meet these characters to go through life like thirty years we're both why they want to do that but i guess it's screenplay or something but
yeah i've always loved research but i realise when i'm not doing from my own self satisfaction it's basically to avoid the actual worry but wait when you do the research in these dark on down like that you know that that rabbit or of what that music was in these character you were going to explore the light did at least process of research get you to appoint frustration and in self hatred or something to where you were able to borrowing this shit that you really want to get too oh no worse chauffeurs hate french enters into it but she back then real research now what is research you go on the internet for two seconds i do a google that's very sure you know and i'm not gonna be a hypocrite and say that once well i don't do it but you have to where were you doing it that the mission from patients as plant force not more right than information right
as you know going blind with microfilm and old books is completely different deal so much research and then again when a retirement right so we really mean gonna retire lyon on now frankly older and dirt someone i have my sixty fifth birthday party very soon and celebrations not apart parties nor pouring listed as booze but just oh and their retirement be delusional by i'll be retired for one night and permanent at sea the some aren't you the areas associated the two i hear why their life's on them going off and celebrating my was it was the golden
there's no yeah this is it is because the gold yeah here yet has i feel for you have forgotten what have one alliance shit that is the golden years all partners should go it's fucking gold is a commemorative coin there twelve carried gold plate it only airplane you just see the nickel under it as it brings us all and then untarnished vienna the real so no wonder you start you started you know you grew up where i was born in new york and i grew up in both nor in jersey city in and moved to new york and my late change my father from there's a city were above it's not you it is neither high school causing darcy it was one of those things were always knew open jersey city member visited my grandparents over there once when i was really young and in years later we went back and user gay there's my place i'm gonna get other car my wife to stay in the car
snyder there there crawlers were blackened orange like fuckin halloween yeah i think i was born and margaret hague majority yeah i was born warnings mayor hague named after his wife so you there in jersey waited with you or your parents would your men do the eighty well by the time i was most evil either as a service she became a absurd gotten bar business and be doubly space we worry did now and then what will be the year for jobs you gave me a great jobs the porter is or what supporter do queens up the depew compeers from previous night near the water up toilet forward lipstick ladies room and learns very early on women are much bigger slobs men
let him option year yet were added a poor went to school mornings there's some about about them at about being in a bar when you're younger when he can't when you don't know that life they are having to deal with the aftermath of whatever one on the night before it sort of weird entrance and that that world wide grown ups are up to something an end to be part of it iran is vague memories but i i never put i never through a cigarette buttoning urinal i met adult years that's what i remembered picking them out and there were none the sanitary gloves involving this washed up after tat we all wanted to me once we're a writer poet
stir ryan who is what inspired you do there who are you guys at that time when you read when i was written jewish trash yeah so but this besides about writing i appeal to me was i felt the need to communicate and there was really no one around to communicate two or west and being a coward by nature even community writing is great weight to like you communicate was hiding poor frictional wall is basically an act of fear and then fortunately you get over the fear than you stop witness writing jones in any you start to learn how to write rise again
a coward by nature yeah yeah of ill a storm i remember one die right what does that mean he a coward or just a person was well persons were generalised and cowardice very probably got me a little riven by fear especially those who pretend do not yet have the worst oh that asia i won't be a purse real workroom streets yeats since my species yeah so you ok so you start writing you get you know you get your chops and when you come into the city of what of other jobs idle jobs marriage i was i was a snake burn flora how and when they go on for a few inside a bit if i get there how'd you get down a large that fly wishes bombing around with this body
and they were building there were finishing the building of judge he wore a legacy land and construction jobs there and we are all jobs and that way it we ended up first and shouted flora tried to rob a bow from both patient scheme of going check fishing magnet time money i don't on a stolen boat yeah you do not have not worked cleansed engulf didn't happen other worked out i came back i came back to new york i got married you go college now
i want to i mean i want i want money to drink wish now and back then i would make a whole twenty five bucks a week worker for lovable underwear company two hundred mention four hundred and twenty five bucks a week you could pay rent ii and get through now they'll have to surmount left over the end of each week there's a lot more ended there's no inflation says i say here you ve done some snake cunning you cleaned up kernels you work for an underwear company and now
you're living in new york worry eleven initially my first place in new york was in which between central park and lincoln centre sixteen thirty three i believe an rent was nine years for a studio no one better oh my god and then and then when i married when i came back from our version of flophouse house on house street near seventh avenue and i met a young ladys it lived around the corner fifteen should sums avenue in a real parliament
i married her enough or first i snuck out of flophouse where pain we sure it will my typewriter moved them was her married for five years meriden you are moved down nashville or a finnish right netbook contrary that you mention and you came back divorced national at that time my boy here look i've been through too i got no kids they that's array a second time nor less one always gives me left the first one for the second one because it had to be the aim you was a guy i remember blue seventy five bucks to divorce in tennessee and describe bart durham black divorce law nerve for europe's citizens office the phone rings and some guy one no if his divorce was finalized three could get married yeah that was you well you know with permanent was one those things where you know sometimes i get
because you know you think you you sort of you sort of wire bored somehow another culturally psych thinking you need a retired sixty five come in your brain it's over this artifact in solving this issue this is what people do and then you doing you're like what the fuck i do this for that's right but did you ever come up with an answer or manage workpeople other people dead that was part of my region may outbreak of hanging on the bar out certain our every night these guys would say i'm gonna go home made a sea in a little while go home early they get a meal and then come back out initiatives as some bad since somebody asia so good way like never learn take carry yourself why don't i guess i don't know what they are and what their home idea was good i didn't end up having any kids you know but i am sorry
working with there are still working on that shit i'm fucking know anymore boy up means you re for number three year now i think i've gotten to cynical truce well i mean whatever the virtues of it are you know that the first one was you know appropriate and see my guy could have entered the world the sort of middle ass security or some sort united come from a pretty good family grounded the second one was can stunning left me crush me didn't really fuckin bounced back wow i wonder to search for four or year maybe three mighty like i find that you know with the heartbreak if its deep enough it it doesn't ever really go away just sort of canada mumbles along to live were harper amelia heartbreak easier to live within most women soil i want you give up hope life is life is more pleasant there
so it is all about a bit of a weight to it dared to hope this in anti there's yeah there's a freedom to an average certain asian sore like tat may i say that i do not myself forever right with i think that's what ultimately our image i don't don't kid usually pays you did they dump there romania high that's the real heartbreak yet so wish we were dead we're back when you were a kid in protein maybe you just after i was a kid i mean yes if if grandma was dying you did in the house yeah we're united you go over there there is a hospital bed in the living room that just seem to mean something not unlike love we're among the family among family and now it seems like war
it's hard to figure out because you know this sort of weird selfishness in his narcissism or what but that this sort of importance self is all very good above all else disease gordon gecko type centre aging as we speak near you know what thea a billion to wife here and the kid steady arrays why did fred pound haitian nanny asia the dog wicked though a walker re experience love nor is the sort of like fun yet an historical thing that they have no consciousness of fun love they go through the motions like the ended dino i mean you know what's in there doing i would say in a way was an inspirational
gallagher i showed how to deal with all that stopped it destroys people by removing himself partly from it yeah maybe figured that from his own wife rail moon at once let's go back to natural for a second so your natural for a few years yeah why there just a researcher you rely had gone down somebody off my job down there i went down a great job do nothing basically jurgen drinking and i wish in which pleasant down there i really i really enjoyed national most days i've been back it's not the same place finish that book there and then there's so much afraid of divorce when i got divorced and as you said my effort of divorce when i got divorced i came back here
when do you when did you start writing about music that what would you what jovial she wondered what drove you towards well was because the world these so called underground rock n roll places where you you could write and make like ten or fifteen or twenty twenty bucks preventing tat was rolling sounds like twitter they pay between bugsy just start is a gig yeah i was waiting to get published and make a few bucks that since you know the big glossy magazines were impossible a police station on handles options but you weren't in innocent say you know nicotine not if i consider in ten years i e those inherently yoga bushy darkish trying to get me most rejection tax yeah this shit i ll give you the shit like i get the nickel
the indians i'm basically addicted smoking i nicotine i thought i was well ten years on these things the good thing about these man is it like you know you can regulate how much you're gettin so like waiver i mean g and and so obviously you feel is rejected we have taken these nets exact nodded the candy did the subcontinent nicotine can't yeah yes but they get injured draw grammy's pill absolutely but it's like theirs it is a pleasure noise i try not to go to that point me like this poison well how what so ten years were small but how long without one of these have you gone at an old man is it like i guess a year or so ago i went to my point about a month without anything in images bearable the amount of anger that was available to me of you tried other substances
are you gonna do nothing no more than fifteen years sober fifteen years clean i also nothing here they do nothing no more you well cigarettes cigars or pleasure none addiction the great right i'm really liked them but i got busted for bringing some buying cigars through the internet what the cubans homeless fury really would have when you mean busted they arrest notice from homeland security its if i wanted my impounded goods come and get the most august twenty page document dated paperwork reduction but i was in england recently and i enjoyed them there i plan to enjoy them on maya and you're at my written retirements on my birthday showed
it's where it all those things that like even any average ass a really can afford the best of the best cigar it's an affordable luxury really you know i mean i really ensure that cop across three here i'm good or maybe less port but no don't do anything much anymore ivan i had to stop reef stop smoking reefer because my diabetes which refer would make me want to eat the worst possible never make won't like a stake in a cell sign ice cream yeah things things just break break shrinking boxer though is the criminal well with one of the crown of black yet to provide that's why stop smoking refer i basically lost my lush my thirst for
you never got strung out though yavlinsky the things over years long ago where i just basically taking everything in a modern ill i liked you present in my own life both for better or for worse soy sauce i'm getting off and then i'm going often watching a whole i never told you a pocket should be such a mediocrity nobody would know does such a boar hear me i'm really getting off on watching world just completely go to hell and looking always its around me yeah it it's terrific there is i think the world ended about six years ago we would never just then i guess it was so doll i realities wages free under me in dollar hollywood production are here with special effects that was it
not visited this is the most apocalypse and ditches deposed apocalyptic moral and they keep making movies this keeps repeating itself have you noticed that as you get older that like the promotion and the movies themselves it just is repetition of garbage their liking or seasonal garbage it just like the same thing over and over again it gets better when you wanna go to a movie theater wiki afternoon data summer just for the definition and you you can't bear the prosper like any of em yeah having that even you'd rather being the heat than men with what you get out of your head you know the disk we share these movies like fall down in your face in georgia but the well oversees hear anything what kind of morons without my city head of latin american area
instead you know were not that's how we met that's where we shit they aid is right there where exporting the apocalypse yeah did the subtle apocalypse is making money overseas now the united states of america was like twice around the fountain and into the dirt in american dream like the only country that ever saw selves is a dream i it's real jackie and it's over it's no good back in the seventies you weren't like like a die hard rock and roll guy in seven days like the older arm d my cousin darcy is older than i and i was sent to a lot of stuff she listen to what is yeah and it was rock n roll then i sort of most interesting
by the seven vision was in the seventies and i lost interest but you weren't part all liking legs macneil you easier friend years now i wouldn't say friend but likewise if you are in part of the defining i know i didn't even know what the hell was arrows i remember i remember the seventies you a lot of people think i'm i was because i wrote this article nine six nine cold punk muse admire sky used coin a phrase here yes there's someone i hadn't mines wasn't even you're missing every day in the buggy to live to be misinterpreted right oh you know if you're lucky oil we get those border with delhi counter we say that we have to show you a kind of lump in with their crew didn't bother me
it didn't bother me then as i said the muse who is really tied in to just have an outlet placed right and a lot of the so called new stuff i did look nothing to do with music i mean that was happening an order was happening period you i mean the unsung heroes iraq roy i was fond of years phone while you have started out as a column for cream magazine the more people have told me that debt that book makes some left not only that it makes me laugh but like i uniting of unknown when harris was so i guess i read that book and i started amassing those those records listening to him because a guy you i had a complete my own education so i mean it was an informative book always great stuff and and back then if you
what did you hear what he or she has to get the old refugees seventy eights right king l peace these days you told available which is good and when in when you wrote when you decide to write on jerry louis which was that that was really the first biographia did right your hair was here was a biography it was how to help him scribe generally fascinated me as your ring and when you re a when i write a biography i oughta be completely fascinated by some sort of a figure who who's poor is mystery liver me john solve than usually has something to do with the mystery and me is on solve even to mice myself and jerry lee struck me as a kind of guy
he's the only probably only pursuing a think of eagle mania fade rio was becoming he was also if you know it no have no hell but he's going then tell just sweden go there greater great our job about strung out and self abuse here's your guy you will get a picture of the so called moon dollar court said you had elvis call parkins johnny cash injury they lose their and who on earth what would the odds been less lives jerry we re i love the area is a great man a great american god bless him and then also in the book he played him against his cousin who with which it was the jury fought which couple who make your museums wag jimmy swagger was his cousin
yeah and you had that you you you had your sort of this self righteousness verses devil and the indian turns out that the self righteous guy was infinitely more evil in a way oh album of he was too is a true appropriate and writing jerry we never was i remember very lisa pointing out before swaggered downfall he would say jim in a big man holy ghost field right that's all you're real as beautiful as the word racket racket why what am i figured it so often number singly descriptive there yet if everything is crooked or people wanted to be everybody has everyone that's all that's one the ban of the benefits of that one the good things about america is there did you want invent yourself you won't sell some bullshit go ahead
yeah i do with it on the market share of the market sir but the trick is these is what what does so well who's in charge of the bullshit that becomes big question does it seems like there's it's about ninety percent bullshit and there's a lot of it and now you get these machines that it is they are they're just hungry for content what are you going what can you give us for nothing before waitin damage of great revelation to me it within the last year i always thought i was a writer and then i fear that the new world for new free for writing is providing content so with somebody asked me what i did for a living content providers like a run to a a boring such sullen version and what do you do for a living i'm an entrepreneur i mean period a judge not entrepreneur of right but i mean
back and get the way people describes himself i'm in the content providing feel ill i mean that's what is that's probably the new euphemism for unemployed entrepreneur sir and that that something that can happen entirely in your head and only experts that are not export anything can you hook up this said she visa with the epp properly i alone while one remote control carefully buddy intuitive you're very soon does the same thing you do you're watching him and he's being paid by the hour do the same unsuccessful blinkered so i don't know i mean it's like hell everybody i judge i'm enjoy watching everything go down to books coming out so i feel like i've done enough of them yeah you got caught you got him coming out now what the coming out very soon this is my first children spoke my first and last children
and then i have mine action really big novel my coming out next summer i finish this is too one true the one true gospels true story of jesus christ really it actually is and would you do for research on that one irish i studied the gospels multi orthodox ones and nea i prefer and red around the basic see illogical historical fought now is well nothing in the gospels could have happened
none of this was possible none of it did happen and yet i believe always written by believers it can even believe the goal in own does the pitch right so i'd i took it from there i took it for me i got a little inspirational history gone maybe my lash or am i am i wrote a book called live wrong live long vega site near you can say you like real real help from people that like had like not yours doctor drew we or the idea i mean who buys this guy in all his life he smiles right you get that beard
miles right years got to eat the avant pillar beard he's not for your money he's there to health yeah i would just wish you would just like he'll overrun drop dead wally's one of his cause he's gonna help you nuts well i did so but the guys who like somebody like jerry lee who can't who can help a bee himself you know and in fact right he's going pushy envelope on that but i think it's interesting that the idea that live wrong live long is that you are maybe a few here at least you're honest with your desires and impulses and and you know you push it out into the world may be part of europe my party your karma whatever the fuck you want to see is that way you know that you're gonna live longer than anybody else and you're going to live with that or you just i mean i remember thinking it when i was in my toys that ok i'll
to be thirty two that's enough and then it's just i like you just doesn't want you sleep yeah i that is the most difficult thing because increasingly people now only or dishonest but they don't know what honesty is cause they ve never met themselves yeah go to a job between lying to you coworkers and your boss lying for a living as most you waking hours then you lie you wife i mean then you just why do people in social situations to impression and now it so easy with all this communication social networking laughing so site i mean is there honesty anymore of any kind i think like a ship most people don't i've never met themselves
although from the wound to grave wherever mean themselves make yourself again lobby sulphate yourself but at least you they're yeah why me think i do not think anyone can be truly honesty thereby wind themselves whilst uncertain well everyone lies to himself but honesty such a gas because it really upset papers shit yeah that's right i made me that's why stand up is so compelling the answer tat sacred like what say you can be honest about you how you feel unaware your add or you know you yet you know a lot of times when you're honest desperation to it you know like you sometimes people most honest when they're in the most fear and they need help and innate i think we're frightens me when i talk to people have to a lot of people one on one his ignore human beings are built a sort of shoulder the burden of others the disney they can do it by you in there
culturally living now no one's gonna fuckin time for it so you the whole elm and communication and everybody suggest set adrift on their own to sit in their own shit which i guess you do any ways but they were i think there was a time i think we talk about when you were younger about family about that kind of shit we sort understood that at least you had the fall back on when i think that's gone well bench increased edge to aspiration no doubt there is nothing to fort nobody's arms to fall back into a view do you gonna cracky skull oberon street reality to aid to gas slight allowing yourself the time frame silence and solitude truly experience how desperate you are rather than tat its sideways or shut it off with television or or cell phone your horn app yeah yeah
i can really be a comment of when you look around with those fresh eyes you really see you start your desperate look desperation the clarity i mean aim every every one of these smiles and giggles and laughs and shatters it all total desperation again i love it the interesting thing about some of the guys you write about when you say that you choose a motor right about if you can find that mystery in yourselves the young resolved in their there's something compelling about how they ve you know filled with it or transcend it or just to imbibe yeah that would be like when you look at somebody like dean martin like these are guys that at the end of dino and we can move through the other books as well that you know at the
and you don't really get an emptiness but you get a guy that somehow another despite everything he's given to the world or have really been interpreted he you know he's sitting with their fuckin with with with the truth himself and nobody knows about him if he's fortunate like generally to be aware that didn't fruits for himself is always present beside him and not being expounded upon lou if it comes out a good comes out secure by mistake voyage slipshod bright and what about like you know somebody like light the sunny wisdom book with fucking phenomenal but did you did you see sunny wisdom is as a victim sure shining with well sort of cool guy went around being up all men for change a victim but yet he was and what for
say to me this moment about sunny listen is as a weight great my countrymen from north glory jones mirror brok said he was a big black spoken every white man's doorway it was like white people hate him and feared him and black people wanted nothing to do with him say we're trying to be met respectively middle class and whose me it was undefined you're both physically and his soul was so out of place in this world me i've seen she tempted to write by road about them in the book those letters yeah listen what men who cares about
your million dollar baseball players whether their own dope sighing listen was ages gray american yeah and ill glossed over by the great this truly great american skit airbrush out of the picture or american like taking a cigarette at robert junctions mouse she knew hundred dollar bills you looking over benjamin frankly has far collar none are no one's it's like this is america by get that cigarette earlier melted get that in politically incorrect collar of waiting take the cigarette and robert chances mouth and postage stamp georgia's like honouring like black history right suicide while we can on report first we have to clean it up ran with another you see like at the end of it when you talk about true americans jerry louis and sunny
then how do you define that for yourself people with stand out from the huddled masses yearning to be rich mediocre free it's got nothing to do with this country's country every day is less free and people shepton day embrace it they don't know what to do i think the tales east to tell em to civil war free the slaves yet ten miles on the road and long term back people can handle freedom people no one in this country as should ever make comments about all shell german people out there to happen because as people we do aged and were told yet a anything and if you meet
open enough or big enough connor should become a hero like when i was a kid nor very few heroes now it's where are you from around here that's right i mean fell hero sleek many people were killed building down town like nobody knows the honors like that you know cleaning leave took the subway down at five o clock in the morning to map of those flaw where's my many tangents and women he did down the king of the jews which i go in and out of that book very dense russian strange here is a strange book what was the agenda with their book where we are working for ah he fashioning may because he was he was patriarch of organised crime in new york in pretty much
said in new york or me here in inaugurated the dope racket today's dope became illegal it was the mentor to all the more well known characters from mired lansky speech lucky luciano work when they were kids who worked for him back in a girl days knew our love their period of your history to read about in may a walk our rushed in what way was a city that never sleeps right now what is it was sorrow and tell boys what is the interesting thing their notice about how he wouldn't about new york to is that there was a time when they were switchboard it was a much more intimate landscape and that this sort of hierarchy of both the
criminal element and envy the non criminal element was is pretty well and like i made any guy in the street would no more rusting was harry york at that time and now there's no fuckin way to no one would ever have the criminal element is like a consortium twenty governments in banks will need to stimulate credit i usually get that's what you're talking about everything an entire country into deeper debt to make money there is no more money urges you digits on another computer transfer lightness exactly yeah you can just lose everything because someone know forgot a number yeah you got nothing there is mistake made we the number of judges the tax systems almost like dad who s idea eternally two hundred grand to five grand completely legally of me according to make the was what do you think the murderers
oh you're a very interesting all crackpot queen basically a science fiction writer with a dirty mind who were got very lucky we spent a meal one of his ideas they fashion we only bigger suggests so busy ella heads pseudoscience thing going you know if he had the cure for common coal use incurs on call it a book one a retreat one time when accord smoke and i got the book to teach you how to get involved in the woods and do it in areas smoking open borders birdie stylist all this stuff was caught up some may not just part of a key cashed in pre guardians liquors nike commercial suitors commercial but he had that idea that i think there were sort of talking about a little bit
the of nation of rats that you know that there is some prophecy to some weird shit that he was pull out of that that's stopped and interests me here because what you have now is that this idea that we're gonna live in this kind of big brother is tat the world and then you realize that like now not only do we live in it but we are it and that's content private tell you provide content that with other social working at yonder if you have any you can't do anything without somebody senior somehow you know in it and that's literally should examine inside all of the truth is a lie by natures like a hollywood truth is alive and it's like date universally i mean george orwell meanness
beyond is being on target a wooden right no net we the idea of orwell was that we you know we'd be up against something oppressive and in the true the matter is it we ve embraced it whereas where our own oppressors exactly and we love it yeah exactly self fly jewel and cheer you know we just want you write a book i do ask novel when you know which was wrong to the point of like what is i couldn't not picture you as the protagonist in me in the devil i may i couldn't get you i had to put you in a note from my buddy samuel upset you know that guy he's he's a great he's a novel and the like you know whenever i read his books i talking about it and i say to you part where you're you're doing that girl what he's not me it's not me it's not me it's it's a fiction it's a big sets always to convene out that's the best thing about
you know writing on the rubric affection was a major character as my name was nothing to do with it but how a clause was that one to you all but how do i give an honest but someone accurate answer it was very close to me but not all the way of course not all away how catholic were you when you were a kid i was not at all because like i there's something wrong with this morning is the benefit did the gift of catholicism is elaborate notion of historic no evil and that it has a face and that it has a methodology and there has a young mythology all its own andy do you here in the sense of of our relationship with sin are the devil you know what what
the struggle to go on your own head about that my i really don't have any sort of free when someone i'm reserve a little boy my upbringing was not religion the trappings of religious were present near you gonna be crucifix on a wall and next to it like a souvenir platform as reported said puppies love weeds would dog life you know things like that i it's like my grandmother familiar we were told you reassure jesus christ she really existed but hurry losing was basically superstition right it was she a license plate played at number right was it opener umbrella inside the house sheriff church scores of becoming more and more like this over here like why bookish believing superstition amelia i guess i'm superstitious i mean it makes more sense in any
damn religion i can think of war what some very leo's pointed out and he was right i went home and chapter one religion is never mentioned in a pipe in any language you know really not been a big poor mullay percent mom fascinated by i want to know whether man created the concepts of good and evil for self protection or he invented the gods farce and i think it was good and evil makes more sense and then the god just to protect himself thou shall not kill ottawa may so it's like roger had not made you're gonna make it a universal law year under rule under punishment of suffering in hell maria pleasure what is basically i don't give a damn
i'm about any age gods religions or these things people kill themselves for believe in or shake people down over its second i'm really but i dont believe and donald duck s eyes and they saw it all away from me apart from me like looking at this i shall address shap but virus sap like looking at the matter today it is great cardboard college sky by local i like we ve been clouds rural buyers sky like the ocean like birds augment the women's wage i like like coffee so these are a few my favorite i like it so
when you talk about the the good and evil thing where you i mean what it where do you land anatomy need a shrimp a first for the world is evil in the most boring way here listen to any body whose out to save the world thereafter girl fatter richer off of your ass this is evil on me cherry that's great football is evil anybody it's a world of evil is just an evil has become so boring it's so dull site trying to go to the movies trying to finally eve was gingerous sing yet have to create didn't do it and then you should earns mine is a game is hobby whose
are you boredom so he would make life insurance several few heads of our do some nice things to people the interesting things like these guys like all the guys are you can't fascinated with what ultimately did you find out about these guys it helped you out there that beyond that made you grower opened your heart in a certain way well one thing they hadn't come and moist at sea they did removed themselves from either by intention or by
our common sense they were removed from this main stream of flowing mug that we call wife in general nea and i saw that as as road freeman salvation mean all roads lead nowhere but we should look at some characters like that they lead exceptional lives they let exceptional was i believe those as i said jim ones inspirational characters me more sullen jesus jerry louis sunny listen ways tragic as his life was we'll taxis people for inspiration will return to he says me that's a good books you
bearable whiteness being i mean one bull shit gimme a fucking great he unbearable is being i mean if that its sight he liberal more liberace self better unbearable rakkeed of green says maybe maybe after i retire alright that book but the idea that it sort of like our once we get past all the bullshit all you have is a strange little fucking you know this compulsive desire machine that never gonna we fuck and happy in that what is is never gonna unique if it's all bullshit you know all you left with is is is not really misery but that but the truth of a relentless meaningless process that you maybe you can find occasional moments of relief in and i again there's inspiration
until you can find it anywhere if you know where to look here i mean your embrace the misery is fear him would shit but embrace the misery desolation loneliness and if you do when you realise it you're better off than ninety nine percent of the population who don't realize issue cannot be along with themselves for ten seconds who could not bear a moment of silence let's stay be frightened by the mighty emptiness within them they liking like us in in though in the last novel and me in the devil i mean it seems to me that you sort of at the end of the rope of of where desires gonna tell all at once was energy was like complete pitch black i can imagine because i feel like i'm i'm approaching that that any of
anything you hung any sort of hope on whether be love or sex or or org or going to the edge of of of desire itself we are however evil you may see that in your own mind or however the judge by others at the other side it out if you come through and you don't do anything heinous it's gonna end up getting prison all you have there is then he got nothing will then you discover new things fear we discover new thank you you back where we started from basically yeah this at least you ve had fulfilled desires you come out of the ocean end of desire here he rose ok that's it that's dandruff firm pool empty see it desires become rosy stranger says bad implication but you started desire like reaching even you may like i've we always we most miss we long
but what we never know here and most of us live lives of zaire but we never lived really so like like life can be but these are both word about desire that like when you it seems to me that when you push it and when you keep going here that there's no there's no exhorted right now i did it it just started the hunger expands you know doesn't there's no such thing as stationary satisfaction right that's it that's not pause the deal yeah like all if only i always and then you're then that was yeah there's no i'm good the shed tears like deathly resignation to one's life record there's no satisfaction there all right you know it's like an impostor rose village where a bed
you're absolutely right it such action is not part of the deal for more than say dissatisfaction you get from this present cigarette right through yes it's fleeting says manufacturing self satisfaction right here the idea of when they try to i mean that the entire advertising industry is based on a that's the biggest lie there is well business of lying but yes change fracture me it's never gonna happen yes never gonna have so i guess to be a to b where are you taking these pills you should know something about i do like you look like you how far you look just pretend we no i know i now believe me i am no stranger to the thrill of being placated by substance that but like when you talk about not being little shit we're yourself for me this is very relevant i just turn young fifty one through a certain amount of things start to realise its
points like i've been just fuckin runnin is running running from that from their idea of being honest what yourself they dare to have that that weird sort of horrible weedy silence of of just like this is it this is it so like you know one at when i hear you talking about that i'm a guy that wake whence i figured out how to use a fuckin i thought i might me i'll be in i'll be in it every fuckin two minutes are your facebook i dont can't do the facebook i like twitter his anxious spurt shit out she tweet i do too she had learned all over old between a fund because if you get a few people on on the you know on the line you can him well shit out and in a bunch of people going what the fuck and your idea that's right like you everybody shouldn't around waiting way
we await while at the same it's like everything else like an ipod cycling i haven't year funds in being on twitter haven't you now with the all the time just a hit just a hit just a hits just hit everything that's right and it's all objective two completely addictive man it fills in all little geniuses with another more electric kind of empty yet while you were happens is like you know you get that hidden your brain chemicals go one way or another depending of is a good hid her about it that that satisfaction thing but like innovation each oxygen we for now and you come why feeling better geography like good tweet we bandeau yea because it long satellite but the thing interesting thing about twitter is it makes it makes you thought relatively disposable number you can get him back and whether or not there right
you got two hundred and forty characters the tight knit up man here you can if i controlled punch in its way to writing thing it's definitely writing so you know if something picks up some traction yo a bit of poetry or whatever the fuck you gonna do in that moment you know i got your i try to write things relatively you're nuts like cryptic but like i try to do something nick china i'm trying to do something do something i guess i tweeted inconsistency abounds apologists everywhere never based what we're talking about much more concise and much more concise i ll make up for that shit out into the world of good for you do you ever do you ever ok what close with this do you ever get a moment where because obviously the the the a medicine for what we're talking about
firstly what is the bullshit which is now finding a god finding a structure finally a life that gives you the illusion of security having faith being able the believe you're so like you know you get rid of all they do you ever did you ever once have a struggle will you are craving that undecided like one more maybe that's the way to go we always fighting always had a certain bit of envy for very stupid people up at me and i do mean to be judge mental those were visibly more stupid tonight because they take this to get off so easier their non satisfaction fake satisfaction point you so much lower but did i ever try to reach out from god or a system of salvation oh i might have again envy those people were to find peace in that
hum of lying to oneself but now i find it are you looking for the fountain of view the elixir of life you know you weren't you guys you guys found ten million dollars in a paper bag in the back of a cab who did wasn't didn't give it back and what it will give that should back me get a hope and then you realize what you you're alive you beat racket you still here and always people have died around you and if scientists all down and live much speed up and get some works is this really no work to go thanks you're talkin that was cool right talking to one of the dark buddhas i think we did our right now is nectareous hoping joy
that's our show gotta devotee of product can get that act if you want to hear those interviews with lord darn or michael keener you're doing gladder autonomous anderson many others many others more coming what are we gonna do right well tuned jasmine
Transcript generated on 2020-03-26.