« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 594 - Britt Daniel

2015-04-15 | 🔗
Spoon frontman Britt Daniel tells Marc what it was like growing up in Texas as a sensitive kid who liked The Cure. Britt and Marc also trace the path of young heartbreak that preceded the formation of Spoon. Also, Jon Ronson returns to the garage to talk about his new book, So You've Been Publicly Shamed.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Though, the alright. I do this. How are you what the proctor is, what the fuck bodies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck snakes this mark, mary? Deputy have welcomed the show gotta pact show today daniel from the ban spoon it's gonna be here in the latter part of the show, I can say, as we gotta another meeting guest on the show as well the add the the the amazing john ransom has written a book, about shame. So you been publicly. Shame it's out! Now we talked a bit about this book on episode for seventy three, in the middle of writing the. But now I think so, you buy now have probably realise that if I've had a guest on before HU I enjoy, unlike which is most of my guests. If they
something that they do not want to get around the world they they wanna will help or they want to talk about it. Some more. I have mine for what we call short ease that or we can behind your back, GA majority interview, though JANET did get into it. We got into it a tibetan, it's it's it's a heavy topic, the public, business. Shame in general, weighs heavy on all of us, While many of us some No, it better than others a sum nourish it for no reason at all. If you their nourishing shame without any purpose. You should probably check your It might be where your most comfortable and that's what religions in business and also psychiatrists and also the general capitalist model, remains in business because of persistent, chronic and nourished shame. You need really from that shit. yet some mania go by.
something go. To the Jesus go some pills Do you really need it? Do you is the shame based in anything, shame is not guilt. It's something deeper! It's something deeper! It's a it's a point. View on who you are not related to two action, necessarily in some tea, it is very old and very young, and not so finally as to where it comes from, but it's a it's paralyzing not lie cancers. Paralyzing! it's sort of a soul, cancer, rambling on tonight, I'll be in madison. Wisconsin might be a few tickets wept for that on friday will seventeen carnegie of homestead music com. Pittsburgh. Think there's a few tickets wept for that Saturday April. Eight the royal oak music theater and royal oak michigan outside Detroit. There might be a few for that. Don't know
ponto on Sunday April, nineteenth first shows sold out second show, maybe a few tickets at the bloom upheld. The error. You can go to deputy ipod, dotcom andor and get dead links to these things. That's what's happening this week in the next week and would do in texas. So That's the story! If you want to go see me, I think there is still some opportunity now to tickets, but there are some If you're in any those places in you're just here and about this shit, go, do it so neither do they think called baked comedy the baked potato tissues classic little jazz rock. You know music bar whole, this box of a room, that's magic to magic, I've been there before I talk to you about this before the show baked is base. It's a month. We shall were comics, can tell a story and also saying or plain instrument or whatever with a bang. the Brendan small, from medical abstain that he's put together and add their amazing musicians. They're just fuckin awesome ip
you know, is in the band, I think, might can easily my camelias he's a fucking wizard and genius wizards of the guitar played with towards the end, see why other guys, noodle, joe traverse on drums usual a genius p grip. I'm base base genius might can easily on boards in qatar might can mike the wizard. The wizard- and I told the story about talking to making Keaton indeed dell re saying and I played in the fellows, jammed and you know in these these wizards they come up to me now. He's out a great- might, can easily fuckin. High level. initiated. Guitar wizard me out.
May I did great night and I accept it and I felt like I did great, but then I realized, like you know it's interesting, because it's happening once before many years ago. I'm an amateur guitar player, but I place seriously and in it I dont grows so much skip my skill set irma practicing to become a a noodle wizard but out you know you play to sort of you get my chops in order, express my feelings on the instrument and then, when somebody who is a guitar wizard says you, you know you sound a great It means, like. I know, he's not condescending but see the thing that I have Those guys will never have again is the limitations, imitation of what I know is that I'm an energetic you know I have a lot of emotion, but I'm severely limited on the instrument, in relation to somebody who's, a wizard? So- I've got to really work within those limits to push through.
Few do that if you have limitations and whatever you do, but you you you, able to push we then you need to push through those limitations. You can express yourself thoroughly and simply an concisely in a way that was Words will never have again. As wizards can do anything, they can almost You know second nature. They can hear something and we created an so. One thing: that's gone forever is amateur passion. I got feels and I gotta get some out now in the rise form possible. Why hide feels behind the noodle. That's right! That's my taken guitar allowed yourself! I love talking to Johnson. I do want to prefaces that He brought his son over whose a fan of the show and and just a in the kid hadn't slept in about a day. They were true.
way and there he was all right, cool and fun, and you just sitting are kind of laughing to himself or me and his dad were talking. It was very adorable so that that was what was happening so here I'm going to talk a bit to Jon ronson about his new book, so you've been publicly shamed, The horde yeah what happened to you? Okay, so this is when I was first starting out in journalism, and I was working for this magazine that just download loaded and they phone me up and they said that you can be flown unconquered, two princes house in minneapolis. Do you want to do so? Is it yes play soccer, so turned up at the airport. And I said, harm had flown concord and the woman said: are you the courier and I said, passenger and she turned to woman. Next. To answer-
if he's the courier, so there's like a bad start, said I mean latona like out, didn't look like a passenger must be delivering syndicates, apple, really, yeah. Ok, I think. Even when I said I was a passenger, she was still convinced that was delivering said I said, and I the plain- and I was sitting next to Keith richards on a first class. He was all first class and conquered one class is still around. No more now know that one crashed and the end of the year and in fact, the story, I'm about to tell what given insight into why concord is no longer a parisian. Ok, the story I was young, let me in case at the back and smoking is when I still smoked so I thought oh shit. I'm gonna have to spend the next units three and a half hours looking straight ahead and not acknowledging the fact that I'm sitting next to Keith richard novel-
Last of all right. Well, I swear to god within a minute he's pokes made in my ribs. Never let the first thing he said to me, but within within about ten seconds he said to me: I've done everything man so we're talking here and conquer takes off it reaches lack mac to bear on everybody like applauds cause. That's when you have people do you hear the sonic me, I fear, and its at the front maktub here. Unlike this applause and then its slow down a lot conquered. I mean I haven't been on concord before, but I see that I wouldn't sit lie reaches back to. It, doesn't just immediately slow down right, but it dead, yeah and the captain came on the town. I am when you may have noticed that we have,
I slope hydraulic yeah, his head. The tunnel was work here, so I dunno key threats. It seems fine and the guy in front of me. It was that the head of a radio station I have, radio turned out and said the partly the last time this happened, I gave everybody free vouchers for marks and spencer s will. like a kind of them food, security and england, here and then the woman on collecting and by now let the planes judgment is like shuddering, alarmingly really yeah, I'm The woman next was gonna. Partly we get vouchers. We get free vouches by five hundred pound vouchers and I'm thinking look good! This we're goin down yeah you're, not thinking about vouchers yeah. I sweat let this story and tending I'm not, and this is no exaggeration said, and the captain I've just come on. The tonneau again goes out, I'm so partly the tenaya hydraulic feel, I think, tat. So then,
Captain comes out of the cockpit and starts addressing. People lie four by four and Keith richards goes and was that way down the front of the eye, and Keith richards goes that item. I don't care about their spare I'll tell you who is going to be pissed off. I said who he said: make it down the front jack elected the waves that key, go live sewers at I swear. You don't understand, king lot fuck. If this plain goes down like fraternity, it's gonna be the allied jagger Keith richards. Listen
in ninety seven other see you're, not you didn't make top billing at all. No fucking liam Neeson was on the island Nathan to wow yeah. So then the captain that finally he's addressing people four by four and he reaches us, unlike he decides to. I guess he has to look at somebody. So he looks at me and he says you may have noticed that the plane is like slowed down dramatically because we've lost hydraulic fuel, there's a leak and we've lost. Don't feel we're gonna turn back to london. We may or may not make it. I swear, but just did joy in the food and it is but the conference between china goes. The FAO check that out when he said we may or may not make we may look. This is my memory that we may or may not like it. That's my memory and keep just sat there yet. So I said to case you know you ve said you ve done everything
that was never flower of agreement and twice in one day, that's my ass. I could for Israel ever man is quick otto. I noticed that do just talking to him for ten minutes wolden, both very witty yeah, so hastily. Thank you for having me back. Well, I mean we have talked about this, but when you're on the show before and am happier in los angeles, this is it he s. So you ve been publicly shamed book yeah and is a book about shame in general and away yet less time came on. The show is like our still writing and I'm told anybody I like what I was doing in the new said. So what are you working on this and are making a book about public statement? I immediately regretted saying to you, because you know loosely ships, mariah the unified I don't even know where it's going yet also, you didn't think you'd finish it. Perhaps maybe not or maybe one of your bastard listeners would still be don't get it get the idea that you didn't explain it all right:
If I were skirting around, maybe now be nice now that the books out well now cheer now it's in america took a little while to get it here, because people have already gotten it in the uk right. and I I read the I read the excerpted piece in the new yorker about the woman who What was her job where she jesting Sacco? She was a pr woman, india she's, like she's kind of like that she's a thread, no, but it's a really remarkable ink on difficult story. Beatin were and on all the more reason I love it so difficult to mixed people uncomfortable and from since I read something in the washington post said black journals and try to be writing a book about how we ve come back shaming, crazy. They already shouldn't have lie, made justin sacco, a hero, she's, the wrong person or not obviously made me laugh even more happy that I was making over here, because she's and she's difficult to make people feel uncomfortable right, and so will I so her stories that she she's, like one hundred and she's, got
one hundred and seventy twitter fellow ry pr woman right I mean we went crazy. Twitter went like crazy that night it was like lord of the flies so basically she's tweeting she's at heathrow he's about to go to cape town and she tweets going to africa. Hope I don't get aids just kidding, I'm white. right. So scott, no replies and easily misunderstood joke here is definitely an easy to misunderstand. GonNA, one stripped of its nuance but was he was shot to death? You know what she was: china, deirdre inactive What were you gonna be like randy numa of south park arise. Terror lie, you know, mock right, white privilege in the south, nor I played by doing an extreme without without really realizing that that text or twitter has no there's no waited fine ones voice if it floats air without the identification of the individual behind it right, but scene of
what about any of that? Because she never got any reply. She only had one hundred and seventy twitter followers so lie. You know. Obviously she felt that sad feeling that we all feel when the internet, no one liked it yeah. No one likes me millions. Not only does no one like you, but there are become raining terror upon you, boss. She had no idea, you know because aegis she disliked got on the plane. I got. No replies felt sad. No one congratulated her for being funny turned off the phone. A lot you know, stretched fell, asleep, woke up. Yan hours later turned on her phone and straightway there's a text from subject hasn't spoken to since high school. That said, I am so sorry to see what's happening, and that was what she woke up. That random as such an anti too and then another tax from her best friend. You need to phoned me now. You are the one
worldwide number one trending topics on twitter and she realized what had happened. But I mean it was unbelievable, so it starts with like the humanitarians. Like in the light of this year of this terrible tweet, I am donating to aid to africa. yeah yeah yeah. So then it's like it gets a little bit darker we're like. Let's get this cunt fired, yeah everybody go report, this cunt yeah and then it gets darker still like somebody. Hiv positive should rape this bitch and then we'll find out of her skin color protects her from aids, which way. Nobody went after that person or those who pretty narrowly. Yet we are known is that we can only handle destroying one person tonight, yeah so and then her employers to eat it This is not rageous insulting comment.
employee. Currently unreachable on an international flights and that's when things went crazy because suddenly, like a hundred thousand people, are more millions of people, everybody was on twitter that night, this tree overwhelmed their timeline and we want to set up now, I don't remember it. Ok when it certainly well my time not- and I thought, like everybody else, thought that that which is in a while somebody's fucked. I got like excited and I am not sure that was a racist wait. I am sure that that was what was intended there, but anybody. You said that that night was light where you're, just a privilege, Fucker tells a shake up right, so I've so united miscarry couldn't chemin really now. Whenever we scared, we, when you don't have the bandwidth, do you run of the space did to sort of present at the end, to do there's no time, somebody
I have experimented with long form, narrative tweets. Your pattern has been doing a bit of that and- and he you know- and and and I've done it in my past, but to actually create a defense in the middle, of the shitstorm on twitter. It's not it's, not a practical, because everything you say at that point is just more evidence for the press. his internet will get divided in in in within people's timelines with other stuff, and people have to put it together and if you don't have a real voice at any one necessarily cares about yet you're just going to be this fragmented. it's a narrative and a trotting in a timeline yeah and then, even even if and even if, like Justine, did have a good time since she was asleep and oblivious no, my guy just a nightmare. The mild shaming that I've gotten on twitter, they can only and in explanation we just devastating. Will you know what happened next to me?
so after that I'm now haven't even told you, the worst of it yet so as soon as like, we found out that she was like oblivious to her destruction. That became hilarious to us. That became like a great narrative arc, so it's like, oh my god imagine what justin sack is going to be like when, when the plane landed at itunes on a phone and then a hashtag start to trend worldwide, hashtag has just been landed yet and people are tweeting. Oh I so want to go home to everybody in this bar is so into hashtag. Has justine landed yet been a people? Will I gathered around smartphones it without the truman It was on the world's worst surprise party have achieving get on shorter when she landed well, founded when she landed so forms like just a second in that case something somebody linked to a flight tracker website, so everybody could watch in real time. She was getting closer like what would you get it where'd. She lived. I share a you know
this isn't like crazy troves everybody wants to regulate against, troves wasn't trolls rise. This was ass. This was nice people like a sure, massive desire to be seen to be emphatic towards people dying of aids in africa. We created this incredibly, and pathetic this monster was airport. There was the press already showing pictures of workplaces woke. Somebody somebody's had come on twitter. Is anybody then to go to cape town airport to twitter arrival? I want pictures, so somebody went to the airport to twitter arrival and took pictures of her and now, if you want to know this looks like to have just found out that hundreds of thousands of people have destroyed you, you can see it she's, just their baggage claim wearing dogma.
He's looking actually crushed and terrified, and you talk to her yet light. So I was on this journey costs. I was really interesting people being destroyed by us, because I would notice the and you know I I was joining in on these things all the time. And then you know. If you asked me back there, not that person you just destroyed him in a public remember who they were or what it was that they did Belinda did a member thing, I'm sure they're fine, so I wanted to meet people to find an actually her life was destroyed. victims that I'm talking about you know, don't don't wrote me in view horrible behaviour john runs and you ve done it. I don't know if I have done it a bit. Have I jumped on board? Yes but I'm not angry. I think you ve done it event. We ve all done that, but also you think we are doing to people not just in secular. The thing that really were most terrified might happen to us sure yeah. I now
Weird I mean I was really interested in that light. Why that we'll walk around in lifelike permanently terrified of being shaped like that we ve all got something bubbling away within a set were terrified which is destroyed, reputation, a book, but that also implies to me- and I was reading a little bit of and that in the book about that group by sea that back that you say that we all walk around with these secrets implies that we are already ashamed, xo we, I and I think that to write observation that most people are walking around in some some at its. Intensity of shame person. shame and the fear of being found out would be to shine a light on this horrible thing in themselves I think the shame already exists. Yeah I got the same does exist and that group you mentioned this is a good. which tries to erase what happened her hurricane suggesting okay. So finally she landed. They took a photograph, I mean. Obviously she lost her job straight away, but yup after everybody else just forgotten about it, because it would been gone.
Within a few days by the way november, twenty thirteen she was googled forty times between December, the twentieth in the end of december. She was googled, one million two hundred and twenty thousand times two she was more like. If you touch justin into Google, that night you'd get Justine Sacco before you got, justin Bieber she's been searched for more often than justin bieber. So now it's it's resided, yeah and then she vanished, I'm not everybody just moved on and in fact, if you ass my ass, one of the guys who was like the lead. Shame like disguise: beto who works for Valleywag and corcoran, and he was the person who first alerted. You know a large number of people to the tweet said one of justin's hundred and seventy twitter followers sent it to him and he betwixt it with fifteen thousand followers and asked him how it felt- and he said It felt delicious and then the conversation got onto how he thought she was now, and he said, I'm sure she's, fine
and that's because we want to does that kind of glibness exactly what all of us feel burma in the midst of shaming somebody, we we want to destroy maybe you don't feel bad about it. I don't if I exactly feel that I understand what you're saying by you know, I always wonder do you know what I mean I like? How are they now yeah yeah? Well, I certainly started to under that. So I went in this kind of junior america meeting our victims meeting the people who had been destroyed by us all my life left, but the minister, goats, and a psychopath test. Let the crazy people who would the destroying what people are a long way over there near justine, sacco that she was destroyed by us. So I went on this journey like trying to get into that the homes of the people who had been destroyed meeting them in restaurants. They looked like these kind of you know, so I met justin in a restaurant. Three weeks later she was wearing the business clothes of her former life and it was like light
the living dead. It was like a kind of zombie film, where they're wandering, like the spectral figure really during the earth yeah she was crushed. She said that she cried at a bodyweight in the first twenty four hours and she'd wake up and rid of the night, forgetting who she was. I mean this is like ptsd yeah. You know she forgot to. She was scared that she was going to lose herself, and so she lost her job and she was fine and he wasn't fine for a year. The only person who offered a job the m, was the owner of a yachting company in Florida who said completely. On your side, I don't know anything about yacht syria. This guy's, you gotta, be things why people can't get idea settle. It worry, I she turned and down into going to add to supper, to work out to work with women to work with a charity, helping reduce maternal mortality rate,
in ethiopia, which he kind of loved, partly because I think there was no internet there yeah and I think she kind of daydreamed about. Maybe this is my new life, but, of course that wasn't a new life cause. She was a kind of new york city person, so she came back to town where things still went. Okay for her. She she couldn't not date because google everybody, the datum. She was the eighth tweet woman and finally, so I wrote about it. So I met her a couple of times here since my piece came out and people are like saying to her like my book and oh my god, look at what we did to you. actually listening to nobody said that to people said. Oh, my god look what those people didn't hear that they went the fire through their first nominee. I wasn't even home that night ride and, of course, you this,
it's the most traumatizing as a human being. You know when you meet these people like I did and what are the other people that you've met all of the people, a woman called lindsey stone. What does she do? She made a similar joke where on twitter on non facebook, where she heard and she had this sweat, she worked with adults with learning difficulties and she had this running joke where she would- in front of a sign and do the opposite. So she locked her in front of a no low drank sign. Socio takes people in her care to Arlington. National cemetery sees the sign, it says: keep off the grass fix our lester, in the grass and picks none of that would get me into trouble. Then she sees a sign that says: silence and respect inspiration strikes. She she crouches in front of the sign, pretending to shout and
the finger so that goes around the world die can't cut her a uterus? Let's rate this bitch you're disrespecting the military, she doesn't leave her home for a year and a half reads: every tweet, every tweet snakes it's way into in a beliefs, everything that people are saying about her, even though she knows it's, just a joke about assign, fills plete the worthless is totally ill equipped and what happened to her well after he, after I mean now like to stay in my book by book, is kind of bought them again. Is that the opposite to this, nothing material.
sizing them being like castile. Imagine what happened, who some other people there's a guy code while they said this to people called hank and adrian. This is, this is a very dark story, so hank and hank is in the audience of a tech conference in santa Clara and he's whispering some stupid, beavis and butthead joke to the guy. Next to him something about big dongles yeah, you can imagine a pick dangles yeah. I have noticed the woman in front take photograph. He thinks she second photograph of the crowd, so he leans forward. Try not to mess up a shot. Ten minutes later a conference organizer comes up and says: can you come with me so they're, taken into a quiet, room and told there's been a complaint about
sexual comments and his lack of suicide, and he knew exactly what they meant and he apologized and said that? Oh, that's, fine, and that was it said they left the conference on their way to the airport they kind of nerdy and said that the whole confrontation thing was like in anxiety and she started him on the way to the airport they decide to let they said. How did the woman in front communicate her complaint to the conference, organizers and the the nightmare was that it was a it was in the form of a public tweet, so they had a look, and there was a photograph of the two of them. She'd taken a photograph of them and wrote not cool jokes about big dongles right behind me. So the next day he was called into his office and
hank is let heartbroken he's been fired posts. A message on this website called hacker news, saying: I'm really sorry that I upset this woman and you know I take responsibility for that, but she turned round into my photograph and see what my fate and I've got. Three kids and getting fat is terrifying, so everyone, men's right, blogger and trawl just turned on her and it's like a man's out of a job because of some stupid comment was overheard by woman with more power than sense. That's crucify. This can cut out a uterus here so to this day, like eighteen month, two years later, she still hasn't got another job. She had to leave home, she got fire. She got five because some people from fortunes
data attack on on her companies website, which is not some kind of malicious programme here here where the bad weather the website gets over. Where I can cut functions are sheikh far from her job. Does that conduct in that story? Everybody thought they were punching opera. Everybody thought they will at rosa parks. The good fight, but in fact we have so she thinks that the guys and of em emblematic of her male dominated tech industry. So that's why she does it then all these men are like you know. This is feminism out of control, said: let's, let's kill this cunt right. Everybody's fucking thinks they're punching up and it's just carnage, but also that the the other thing is just like. You know, William burroughs once talked about a a nation of rats and that the idea of big brother is watching. Nesses is ridiculous because he doesn't have to that like if you have to walk through life
nervous that if you make a joke that, maybe you know just appropriate to the conversation you're having but their culturally inappropriate, it's your business, but there's absolutely no privacy anymore in any context, yet that, if there's somebody around with a phone, it's happened to me, like you, I'm just sitting there talking to somebody and I'll see a tweet like marin's right next to me at the thing unita, Why why yeah yeah? I already have the church in england I was at somebody came up to me and said swabs a lot going to Stanley kubrick's house and I started telling him the story and I looked down at his hand and he was recording it. He was taping it, oh with his phone yeah. I mean I agree with you about the sentencing. You know everyone's worried about the anna say. Spying on us is not the answer. It's a good idea here, weaken again exactly
Get your volunteering, the information. This is why I really want to try this book, because I want people to feel like my book makes people panic when they meet here, and I want that because I wanted people to tail what it feels like to be destroyed by us. This is what it feels like, because we don't want to think about what it feels like. So that's why you know you're hot I think when you read my book for that reason that I have pounds everytime, I tweet something a young eight hour or sometimes when I say something publicly, I mean I don't know. What's gonna I mean did that the vigilance you have to maintain sorry. Didn't matter censorship, it's it's! U huge profits are going to say something you wouldn't say normally, but but it's very easy to be taken out of context. So if you got like ideas and jokes on little comment and thought that you that you sort of dared not post anymore, I just checked the tone. I you know. I I make sure that it is it miss red. to be aware of that, like a man My point of view is what it is and I tend to like way
have gone a little more sort of educated, about what is and is an offensive in and made new decisions around words that that offend people and down and and have decided dino, which ones are you know I agree with and which ones I don't but but no, I generally just you make sure that its clear, because you know what you're saying it's a matter of clarity. In the context of that of that platform yeah I mean clarity, help spending cloudy solves the problem. I think that the problem is that we we have created having the police have taken over the school and we ve created this kind of world where we might see the stars, you know when they would ask stasi they asked MR the stasi. These german secret place got a psychologist chum. look out why they were just getting so many willing informants. Let the stasi pay was shit
The workload was massive because more and more like human behavior, we're getting redefine, dislike enemy activity right in the stars, east germany and psychologists worked out a basically. Why they got so many informants was because they asked them, and they said yes and it's like a y, and it was this this. This was just the desire to make sure that your neighbor is doing the right thing and when we look back on these times that the as your mccarthyism is lie, we don't see. Those is the good guys. Yet that's that's. The system were falling into Right but, as you pointed out earlier, it's it's not about that is to deflect it's to deflect deposit would he have you becoming a suspect of it happening to us like the beast? Is sated like if someone else is being stored, yeah cause they let somebody hiv positive, should read this bitch and then we'll find out of her skin color protects her from aids. Nobody,
him that night, because everybody was just so froze, neither even worse and now you know you look it mccarthy, look at roy calling and what you Roy cone turned out to be your closeted homosexual. You know who had his own axe to grind in his own self should around that and in that you know that over compensating was complete deflection from his own shame. So so seems to me that you know here is willing, executioners or or the good germans, or these farmers for further study. You know where people that's all, wake. Well, if I get out ahead of this yeah, then they're not going to find out this shit about me. I mean there may be some people within that group who thought they were your perfect citizens, but still you don't have to certain point in everyone's biggest fears is that you know you you're going to be the corral with the rest of them, a day, even no matter how you behave as is going to be mistake or there find that one thing so why
get ahead of it and throw the other guy under the bus, yeah yeah. You know when I was writing this book. I was talking to this guy and I told him one of these stories and he kind of shivered, and he said it's about the tarot isn't met method, the terror of what I said, the terror of being found out. you know when, when the Justine sacco second story with, might when my book was extracted in india times and most people were like, oh, we felt very compassionate towards justine and we're glad I wrote it, but then a few people were like. So what racist is John robson going to put his cape on for next and so I didn't the only thing I wrote you write like anything, you say when you in the eye of a shaman is evidence for the prosecution. So the only thing I wrote by the way this the stand alone, article, it's an extract from my books. Are you been publicly saint? So then people are like now John ransom saying it's an extract from a book latin. Now it's a fucking extra from a book and then somebody said I didn't
I wrote to anybody else because a hat stay silent because is profoundly undemocratic. Somebody about wasn't johnson apply to any of us and seventy sro, because, because Johnson, plus two men will see, that's it is rightly, I think the important thing that you're you're saying here and that is four intended then than what happened to Justine. Is you know you are now here in this other position, but the important thing is somebody said the one day. forget its one fuckin asshole, but you know, and then maybe for other assholes get on board like by the time they were coming to you. It was not a million people. It was to completely counter and if you were to really do the research probably Five of them are the same fuckin person over and over again and that but see the led the mysterious sort of notion of the internet is that when you're sensitive and when you are involved in this, if two people say, should he things that, though the internet saying but you're, not justine.
you know, and and those people are going to hang that on you, but because I was wondering about this recently. Is there a lot of people that were busting my balls early on when I got a tv show when the podcast was starting off just sort of like you're you're you're not going to last? You know you just igloo. Are you ripping off louis or whatever their fucking criticism? Was they didn't like me, so they were going to hit all my insecurities like you're, not that funny your podcast sucks not going to last. It's like. I do, do you hear from them now I would like them. I would
an opportunity to say I would if I was more obsessive and more crazy, I would go back on my do my tweets from five years ago and bind those three or four fuck heads in guy. I think you're wrong. I just want to retreat. Is you know five years later and didn't just to show you, but you know your worries of up to is, like you still suck, that is to say you ma am in Perth me, I'm with you you two years like a small hundreds of people, are still sneaked its way into us and stowed an impact completely. I think it's destroying my brain John. I think the twitter is the did that whatever its opening up to whatever is opening up in the mind? Whatever because it does have the same compulsive feeling as as an addiction and I'm an addictive person. So I know the feeling So when you are locked in like that and you going you're are experiencing this russia dopamine yo from both negative things, and if things is speed, ball effect, but you feel it your heart, you feel your your gut sank.
Feel your brain race anxiety, oh yeah, everything you know in and sometimes elation, but usually you you're kind of moving through the elation you survive, that is a good book. Yes, I am they'll. Thank you very nice. He's all glad you like that you suck and then boom your gut, so now you got a bottom men to this elation. You were just feeling from five other tweets and then you go at that guy to feel that the date I've been of kicking someone's, ass and then a few in then. If he comes out back at you in one ups, you then you're anything, that's making guy you're going to strangle. You saw so the drama that you can experience inside yourself from just sitting with that platform that media platform is is a little annihilating and I have a concern over what is doing in my brain in terms of of diminishing my ability to process- emotional interaction weather day, I was given the talk in england and a woman came up to me and signing q and said she was a child therapist and she said pretty much every child who come
to her now damaged is damaged as a result of something that happened on social media. So what any child? How will our light? Like children, teenagers lie its social media that is kind of damaging we're the children, because you again because, as an adult, it's the same idea that you know before you can really sit there and practically say this. Is nine people it's the internet, exactly So for us it was nine people and it still snake to to rise or medicines is so the people in my book it with tens of thousands people, hundreds of thousands of people- I mean it's like it so profoundly agonizing, to be at the end of that, and yet, if you ask us late because the snow, doesn't it feel responsible for the avalanche? You ask us with I'm sure she's, fine or other sociopath, so we we the human as motor. This is to make us feel better about our fear that we've just destroyed somebody. So we either just assume they're fine or we give him a dig at humanizing word because it's easier to to destroy somebody.
Not quite human, so does it does it at least end with some laughs, the book of the books, full of laughs ma. I got a porn shoots. Okay, I want to punch you in l a pretty close to where you're living now oh yeah yeah, because I wanted to meet people who, who had found a way to eradicate shame. So I went like a shame, eradication works I read or that the add I worry about it. My friend carter the stakes are, we can end on allowed our neighbourhood. We don't want you. This was your concept of where shame is eradicated, yeah. Well, a poor guy who said to me like a gay porn, star, cucama Habib, who said you know that you know if you want to about unashamedly you should go into the porn world. He said you should google me if you want to know more about may so I got him to select loads of photographs, janus and then he hooked me up to this porn shoots this porch at a gay porn. You know it was 's name is called public disgrace. Okay, I feel really sorry for for the for the subscribers to public disgrace, because somewhere in a public disgrace porn shoot like a woman.
in a genitals electric, you said well, yeah active co, jody taylor, and then comes juncture should appreciate that you gave her a name credit. One morning light. That's what badge she's she's very proud phobia, none I so so Some were happy people watching us getting often having urgent was those let generated and then suddenly, like justice, is about to climax canada tweedy owl, like journalists with a notepad peers into sharp yeah, I'm like a closer look excess, I'm ruining and people's erotic, and now they're going to know. They're, probably pretty focus before it'd be just comic relief who fell heavy for some people. Well, this is a I. You know I've only read parts of it and I love it, but I love all your books, so it's called you so you've been publicly shamed, Jon ronson
for coming mark. Thank you for having me by always nice to see you smart guy, that John rising, I'm talking to an end is a sweet guy and his great guy and we went into the house and we sat and we listen to pink lloyd metal. On me, stereo and I believe it it affected him deeply because he had forgotten about that record in and from what I understand he can need to listen to it for days on end after that, pink floyd metal saw there. They lay out the future. On that record, I now I got this opportunity talk to Britt Daniel and you know I got an opportunity to sort of jam a bunch of spoon in my head and they were a pretty beautiful band, pretty beautiful sound been around a long time were huge for a while. Then we know we are nice chapman. We, you know it's easy texan and for for due to, and are playing a spoon might not be the easiest thing to grow up in texas
so anyway. This is me and britannia from spoon You come from taxes on your all from taxes, a hundred percent texan. No we're not from taxes, but we all- but you are here- yeah yeah, we're part temple taxes I have no point if that's an hour north of austin work What kind of how may keep people in your family? Well, my folks pull up on those eight and they had two kids before they split up and then my dad got remarried had to markets like a kind of form forces but three from the original battle to from the original, yet very, very early in the original rat. and you're the only one year here, how the hell you siblings, doing mostly good yeah One from just had a baby lives right around here, a really might my sister's, it's just. It was my mind that,
it's that she's, the one that that had the kid oh really cause it just cause she's the youngest driver. She still, I still think of her as my very much my kids is. How will the? U forty three one? Oh a oh jellies, twenty five, oh wow, there's gonna those gonna young for this day and age time, was right on the money, yeah yeah but yeah, I think my my dad's happy to finally be granted, yeah? Do you go out with him pretty good. Did you see? That the job of it all you know is difficult, but like usually when they have a grand kid, then they turn into this person that you never knew before right. Where was that guy get us, namely sweetheart. Where was I write? What thou away and how was I denied that guy yeah, I think it's easier, be a grandparent, her, the affection without the without the right, the discipline yeah you can just go, get a fix. No scale. Will love fix and split yeah? What what? What? What was your
the business he's a neurologist, my does a doctor to whose surgeon, now, what kind of some sort of repeated, ok, yeah bone, cutter, yeah, heavy duty, stasi, how're doing is now now they they ran out of the business. You might still do really he seventy seventy. some good about. What maybe I can did you find yourself? at Can you are ill out to get you does attention now? Did you do that? Did do that? Yet I didn't realize it until later. That's what was going on. What did I do for his attention he was out by eight right. He was out that year, but boyle he was out of the house, but- and that was not easy, but you know I would go see him on weekends every other weekend. I can't imagine that it's a rough gig yeah and he lived in Dallas. So that's like two and a half hours away, so it was a trek. It was a trick in. Would you take the bus, sometimes the bus, but last times he would just come down and pick us all up on a farm and then dry back drive all the way back in ages, data
the sunday. Yet he was good like that. Yeah he's Emily was dedicated, it is given that I mean what he did leave but then, but he will respond the ball. It wasn't like your dad left in its right, and we all know areas right here right now. Slowly he's I know exactly where he is yeah. Well, that's good, and what did your mom do? She did public relations, oh yeah. She is retired, her and she's she's around to to get the whole family here now, like I don't know what the temples like, but you know you. I tell you if you want to know, I do want to know I like see. I have a weird thing with texas, like I used to like, I grew up in new mexico, so we were neighbors and statewide, and I used to have this weird attitude. There was a sort of arrogance to texans and sort of gap felt like they thought it was your own country and everything, but as I've got We'll do I got a little softer about, and I appreciate it a little more. Why? What? What was that? It was this a specific thing that new
neither can didn't want another new mexico is pretty caption really it works the same in theirs, water, ranches and stuff, and you know, there's people do that kind of work was It was wrong more focused around like we, go skiing as a family and texans rise, sort of like of noxious and yeah over prepare over over outfitted in good, sky and like they had this sort of, like you know we're here and it's it's all ours. You know that there's an attitude alright right. Maybe they were with a with a wealthy, texans sure yeah yeah, my I have a really good, and who grew up in albuquerque, and he told me that they used to play a song on the radio that was like texans ugh. What are they good for absolutely nothing like, so there must be something to it I talk to my judge about. He felt the same way. There is sort of like this weird and grow up and taxi now
I grew up in albuquerque. Oh, he did yeah pretty much. I figured he would have been from texas. Now he moved to Texas or later rent for his wife's job. Does it so well yeah he he knows it and he knows it from both sides. He knows it as a as an albuquerque and resented them, and he knows that as a texan right, we sort of a easily got little shit kicker in I'm kinda. Here busy. You seem like not quite the texan yeah I don't have an example. Temple was I didn't mind it when I was growing up there. I just thought that was everything about it was normal and I guess I did mind getting picked on. There was that it was in temple that there were. a big contention over cowboys and and metal heads and- and I didn't really fit in with a kind of gun into that
metal heads seem right at the very end, but at least it was finally got accepted, yeah, but yeah you know they. It was very conservative, reactionary yeah. Oh you mean like politically politically and just cult culturally, I mean me and my group of friends, you know fencing, or self certain new wave- and if you looked in any degree new wave, you were gonna, get harassed, so you are new wave, and what does that mean at that point by point? Well, it doesn't. It is hard to find out about new music, you know or our new wave music. I wasn't gonna man in yellow. Dependent on. You know that books, the bookstore tomorrow would get the enemy you know yeah. So we will read that and like spin magazine was still was great, then he had to. honor, one minutes on mtv and in if we can find out about it on one of those things that the record start now there was actually a pretty,
record store thy member. They had, they had a lot of four a d stuff. They had a lot of cramps records so new wave as it was bizarre what what they stocked there, because there wasn't really a market for it, so that cramps record smell a female sat there at the front of the stack for years. You know loved going by looking at it, it just blew my mind. You smell a female: did you get Now I didn't get it. Why I don't know because I had I had you know who are. You when you're I had my cure, seven inches to bike twelve and try your gear guy. Yeah, they would harasses in the in the hallways and they would you know they would call you queer bitch. I was a boy one queer behavior, lucia wow. Now you've heard that term, never yeah, that's like a double whammy and my friend cody started appropriating the name themselves himself so like they would go hey man what he dressed like that and he said cause I'm a queer bitch and he would like lick his hand and say I got the aids and they would.
they would come to clear out. You know few members specifically licking his hand and wiping on some cowboys truck and he just flipped out right. Buddy the draft that aids. You? Then there were any work, it totally work and that that boys they be grabbing your crotch. You know, which is which is strange, really hit. The cowboys like a metal heads wonder what was up with I don't know. Maybe they had unresolved issues there now is there I was how they are going to hammer the centre for the high school football team grabbing, my friends crotch and sing them. If you eat pussy is now that weird that yet fucking weird like what was the cowboy business in temple. What were they here is just the same Ours are actually a ranch's where's, your cattle business or what I dunno. I think they just and it just dress like that they might have beens some of them that that lived not in the city proper, lived out on ranch's, I don't know, but I think it mostly was just a cultural thing where a country music was big, and so they would. You know,
fuckin menacing. That's weird! Try one of the weirder things that most am very disturbing both both disturbing a while that the fact that you know that defense was, I get aids and some in cowboy freaked out cause he touches truck. That's truck was gonna, get aids but the idea that they were actually sexually harassing, that that doesn't quite I've done. It doesn't know- and at the time I remember thinking this terrifying, but I'm not, but not really, thinking about what that meant. You know about with the terror that with not thinking about the fact that these are guys and and there's totally homophobic and their anger grab. My friends crotch, you know tat the distant if I didn't crossed my mind to later like what what was really going on there. It was just some unresolved shit yeah. Why, I was just scary- is oh yeah I mean did. Was your fights there were fights, you got beat up I don't get me up to much better. You can count on.
I got out of the water for I got pushed you know. I got pushed over that we're not to hand here, and there ok seal. It did not hang out at this party at the jock shove, yet the worst for it sad man fuck those guys. Yeah! You don't see those people as much anymore. I haven't been pushed in a long time. You know yeah! Well, you know you've found your world yeah yeah. You don't have to go into that world. Was there ever where I e europe touring would spoon near like one of those guys doing here. Like I've talked other bands, I especially want to you who have popular. I wonder where there's that moment relay this music, not for those guy brows, You know I'm a priest of the neighborhood, The chauffeur yeah guess that there were There was a time when one around, maybe I gotta go when we had the sancho, the underdog. That was like a bunch of movies, and
got played quite a bit on the radio, and yet they were. There are some due to baseball caps. Commoner shows units. Are I rang? Not they were there very. He's for the eyes are right. We judge bay, I mean you know. There is a difference between judges, some guy goes out. We dresses and haven't a cowboy grab. Your friends crotch right what what are you doing in high school? You planning a barrier, art department guy were good studio. I played in a cover band, so yeah that was We started writing our own songs right at the end, and then we all split up and went to college, but our senior year he will recover and cure the ethic year and all like led Zeppelin the doors and what's your favorite zeppelin album? Hopefully now it's probably one I think back. Then it was three right now. It's one yeah cause of the guitars. I don't know just others some about it. That's just enhance intense and harcourt yea era in dark, yeah,
when you start writing originals, what were they like where they like? What you right now are. They were terrible. It took me a while to get took to get good. That's why I'm always impressed with Somebody like you know I knew I know. Conor oberst fairly well and the guy I just interviewed him. Oh you did when I first met him. He was, I think, fifteen and by the time he was seventeen he was writing songs, like with lyrics that you know, just blew my mind. We sort of those guys that just see it, whereas is weird knack for it. Do you know what I mean yeah. I want to see him with the with prime which on prying they did a double bill here right. It was good cause. I like I wasn't like. I missed gum. Fifty once I kind of missed it. I mister. I missed him. and it's you might go out girls so out of fifteen year old girls Do you know girls, it loved him yet, and I was like this unlike like a lot of his audience, but I went back and listened to us if he does write really great songs or sir. You have it's interesting as a person he's just a guy, he is a dude and he's
People have this impression of em that he's maybe depressed guy but he's kind of the life. The party you will you read it and you sort of wacky. Every time I talked to somebody who who's like known as disc, like the like, he got a lot of attention for the song and then you think, I'd be, must be some sort of wizard ones. it wears the you know, guide. My life somehow went to show me something inside of you and he's just sort of like gives us a knack for dinner, so you got better at it again better? We are dylan fan. I in around here and two I started. I went through my first serious face. I mean I had a few records before then, but yeah, but that's when I really got obsessed yet read some books I usually I'm just a sound and sort of like sounds scape and sort of motion the eye when it comes to music, but he somebody like- and I can just listen to the lyrics and and be entertained, and there is very few people,
at conner is one of them. The Elvis costello yeah like beyond belief, valves, customer imperial bedroom yeah, that's a great one. Is that yeah where'd that come from yeah, and but it's why about phrase. Turning. I have a hard time paying attention the words if they weren't. If they really are right up fret and like you know, I can lock him, but like it's almost like doing like a comedian like the way he tell you like it's almost like wow. How did that happened? Right, where'd? You get that gets into character. Yeah yeah. Have you seen him? Lately it's been few years, it's weird aegis out there now gone from town to town mumbling here you're here? They have things like he's always on the road, and you must love it there, as a decision made. This I'm gonna go so when spoon. What? What? What do you think is at the moment like what we you writing about the beginning.
at the beginning. I was just anything that would distance me from from revealing myself at a rally. It was a. It was just a when we first started. We just em. We were trying to get gigs in bars on the weekend and at and I'd been in a couple of very unsuccessful bands in austin yeah and my like I want to play on the weekend, that's where people, so you are in and temple at that time this this by then we're in Austin. Did you go and on high school year, we would go down there to go, see, shows or go record shopping, what was it like has now like? I have to assume that when you grubbin taxes, at the one we're talking what twenty seven years ago that must have felt like your own place like it might have been like this groovy sort of like you know, it's a salvation but it must have felt uniquely texan in that you know like it was your place is now asked seems to be everyone's place? I gaston is like austin
and they like it, was it more intimate. Did you feel like you did it it? Will? It was smaller for sure there was nothing downtown, a member. I remember gonna liberty, lunch, which was like when the only maybe the we ve been you downtown and asked feel like it was a ghost town down there yet and now it's you know completely insane. in downtown. Nobody lived down there, nobody after five pm on weekdays, nobody was there and south south west was probably not even happening at reza. It was tiny I had just started. It must be. I can't imagine what that stuff was like, then that when it it actually I mean it's a pretty special place. I've been there a lot, but it must have been really special in some ways when you're in high school yeah. Well, it was. It was special to him he to be able to go down, and I felt like there were. You know they were punk punks on this. red, and you know there was lost and chronicle. You could pick up and I don't want us. The whole thing felt like well
and the more I don't know accepting of yan. Whenever I felt like, Are you fit in yeah yeah? I mean I, I used it when I worked there, I caught the hipster alamo, you have argued like the issues you guys is. Is it and we have to protect ourselves from the rest of the state yeah cause. I don't want. I mean. Was there a lot of bible belt bible thumping with him around when you grew up here, yeah for sure he has there's a Jesus. Did physician in taxes that is uniquely texan, missin aggressive Jesus position. He I went to what they call a bible church every. we can, when I wasn't with my dad, ignoring Endlich its yeah. I guess it's born again. It's it's. Its non denominational protestant. So it some it's very, politically conservative and and heavy in a heavy. How well,
You know there's a lot of talk about about hell. I really think yet is a bible. It's called the bible turbine, church here and that that's a thing menaces your mom thing yet she always in it. She was like ass. We went to methods, search for women than she did that and then she kind of that that was the one that the landed aunt yet, and it was it a new thing at the time. Was a new church and it started out in like an office building. I know them renting out the room, and it grew to be a big thing that almost like a super church. It is now here it's still there. It's swell yet still there yet dumont, they only a few times yeah yeah she every sunday I about, sunday there, my stepped out, like sir, I don't know they parliament me talking about this, but they they may go to coupled to different, Yeah like it's interesting to me, I, despite whatever I may think about her. Whatever you no kind of
Jesus I may have about about about that- that type of christianity, right there is a community to it, and and people seem to yokota it doesn't hurt most people lives necessarily does. If I don't get hurt her life em. But when you were there as a kid you you could feel like. I grew up in a little bit. I wasn't really sure what was going on Was there like one kind of charismatic leader, guy yeah, they're, very charismatic, and here is one guy, that the preacher yeah yeah and he he's he still is really still very very cares because he have a t v show. No, no, they still around. He's still around here, and it was a lot of talk, a hell yeah. There was a bit of that yeah, so your dad was catholic. So you went for sort of the rotted christianity in them back into the old school. It was yes, I was doing. I was getting. You know, get everybody
I exactly hurry idea. Overseas is new Jesus rank and did you believe yeah, believed, but it just dumb for me to relate to those people right cause they were. Were they his mental you as well, I don't think that they were particularly judgmental of me. It was you know, maybe later that I was a kid and I was being rebellious near, but they didn't fit in their either. No, not really. I saw the big was to get all this in a year in two thousand and nine his wanna play in europe. You thought you you you're stickler mostly covers. Initially, no one wants, we got like moved ass. Any of my bans were we play originals here. What were the bans? There's one called skellington. Here. There is one called the alien beats and then started spoon but you never like a punk. I had always
and new wave and china as well as some punk. I think I fancied myself punk one when we started spoon yeah yeah, but our that let that lay not noticing weird, though yeah yeah, I know I wasn't really yet and as a kid knows, more new wave yeah cause that's kind of like it's. I don't even know how to scribe because, like I was not a cure, guy has a sort of missed it. Just doesn't my age, but I get, it goes, well I mean cause when I was that music is very defined. I can hear in your music too. There's I dunno. It's not ethereal is not the word I want, but there's something kind of like heart heavy about it right, yeah, there's a is it not? It's not even melodramatic. It's almost like gum, the it is. It's definitely is an environment. Try right It's got a melancholy too now in collyer. That's it yeah? I know what you're thinking. That is what I'm thinkin. I tell you something We ve got a bit of that. Sometimes
well yeah? I mean it's natural to me for some reason we are heavy heart, a guy. Maybe we maybe we can identify that. Ok, yes, I am about pressing year by year? You know, I mean it's it's nice, because I think they like when you Have that I have it I can't really live in it, but I can live in it when I like was in your songs regularly when I was in a music, but what happens when you live in it? What there's like? I don't know if it's all a longing thing. No like we do. You know where you just sort of like is this really is? Is it do you know him and that's like- that's not where you want to live your life. What do I mean I it's there ere. I mean it's always there you know but like sometimes, then you got ask yourself
like all, were mad now it sort of like art. I feel that but like, why should be pretty good? Things are ok, three an end yet there's this there's this like weird, kind of like primal yearning for like on and off its relief. Like I imagine like when I get on stage and you stand up or something and you connect, me you can feel the relief in, and in that moment you know, life make sense and in its fulfilling I like when you're just sitting there like you, know writing, because I do writing. That is not community. Can I imagine when you're sitting up there, you know writing like this one thou album. you know there's a moment where you're the town like. I imagine the reason why you can identify until after it's done is because you just riding what you're feeling and your pen and that becomes this kind of the maize equation see make choices about what came out of you in and something comes together and you can feel come together and that's the joy of creation by you know it's not like. I think, that's how we resolve that feeling value
yeah that that's one way that you can deal with it yeah yeah yeah, but I hear what you're saying like what why? Why should we live in that place when there are so many great things, but yet. Think that the writing, being lonely in writing can be a can, cannot bring that out here. You have it somehow like I'm, I'm lonely with people yeah. I have that problem yes, but what sounds like when you grew up, it was probably you know it was probably real. I mean cause you're surrounded by these. You know metal monsters in cowboy hats we had some for. In other words, there are good. You know two dozen as he has fighting spirit, yet you know where it says against them, yeah and we're more we're more of an idea. The more that I found a few of 'em, the the the happier I was yeah yeah and eventually I just like said I kind of do like heavy metal. Then the world became much easier. You know you
when you ip surrendered, I didn't surrenders much like I started to understand, like ok, let's up on his great and through that moment where you sort of like you connected with one of the metal guys and I you know he kind of pulled you over and I remember loaning a dollar to one of the metal, guys that we always we would always be battling yeah and like waiting for school to open they are always be battling. He had this bond jovi light blue blue, jean jacket, right, and he wouldn't call upon jovi jacket. Woody. I don't know I mean yeah. I know Jimmy even known it had put upon jovially like the real thing on the back up, so they were around. They weren't that heavy metal, Vienna may regularity raw loaning, I'm a dollar one time just out of the blue, and then everything can obtain everything changed because just kids, you know, and then what turned yellow adds up. When is it now? We never really became france, but but you know around the same time we can broaden my horizon.
And yet being able to like relate to something that that everybody else could could get. Was it into was there was a nice change. Like everybody loves, let Zeppelin right right, Porto reveals a daisy, icy deasey, how greater they and the best- it's a good tarzan man, that is any man they ice to listen to the first five or six like up and among it up through back in black yeah, and then I kind of rift yeah me too, but poweredge that it's like one of the best fucking albums in the world yeah. I love em c, o like that's it like. That makes sense. Now now like now, I understand your guitar. guys, workers, that's what I hear is that fucking in town and eyes about crunch, do what you do. I do it's kind of you know it's there, it's satisfying here or there so you like lcd. She, then that now we're on how they were alone right now, I really got into a citys in the last five years, but like that
as a point. Yet, where everything I didn't have to just be new wave any more and in the world open up to me, that's where in the last five years, you really daisy DC, can really hitched. Whilst I'm a high speed but- and I got you know I'm saying when I had like an obsessive period was the first time at an obsessive period. The cdc was in the las vegas, see him ever. I've never seen him. I saw him once when they were there. I think they opened for journey on their first tour a while and the fucked up as I was there to see journey So what record where they during the war? was alive. All right and you know you probably. like I wait a heller now as before that, It was before that it was price, seventy seven when he died, but I know that it at the time a whole lot arose you the lie. Version had sort of like taken hold, but what about what? did you ever girlfriend high school
yeah, I had one yeah yeah and so well. There are breaker. yes, she was two years all or me went off to college here before me in Canada it was brutal. It's horrible. It was brutal. Well as particularly brutal. I just she didn't. She just stopped speak like I would never break up with someone that way which isn't I'm gone and goodbye and there's no explanation. You know well if there's another way to do it, yeah! Okay! Well, that's! That's! Not a well whatever happened, then it was. How old are you? It was painful. Anywhere with whatever, while we're together for like nine months, which felt like? but you re. I was the first one and was the first one that I really really felt yeah and took the hit her fair jared getting back in touch with her. Well, I
by Sarah yeah. Eventually she like once I was in college. She would. She came to Austin, and so I did. She became friends with my best friend and I think she probably really out there yet ah that that doesn't help how many years after, like five or six years after comes back into the world just to sleep with your best friend it's okay, that we never used or best rather deck idea. and you never asked him Come on we've we've, we ve talked about it. You re right, you guys, ok, we're very ok, he is done the band. None the dude is, did they ve now these high school or what right after high school, really right? When I'm, we still your best friend, that's impressive man. I two points.
songs, then you I spoon, is not playing up and saw a spoon and sound think there. We doubt originals here, wait like the, but the heartbreak, then, for the music. Probably I mean I members, some of those very first early songs that I was trying to write. Were you know I was trying to convey heartbreak does that where the melancholy started early, we have you is that the way you like when you and I a lady break, break up and then it's just it's over- you don't talk anymore, that no! No, no, that I mean that just something I've learned that that might be the just peeling off the band Is the easy is why because it's like like I am terrible relationships. I you know I've been married twice. I have no kids and nike they're full of drama, and you know like em, like I think like it's weird that why so your folks broke up when you are eight and They're. Ok, though parents wise, but it just seems, like you when you're, younger and unfair-
join me now like when with somebody, it's like that! That's it! You know, I mean, that's all, that's all! That's all of it, I can't like you know I need to be intrinsically connected. In all ways and those intense yeah right by the hour How can someone handle that you know like. After a while they're like I'm exhausted, you know, there's some of that shit. You're gonna have to resolve adria right it up, but I've gotten better with them Is it about me, but I just found that review he done as heartbreaking as it is. I still have heart ache over. You know o hasta. My wife left me like that. Like just right, done, but she had attacked me for a little while, just you take my money, but we had no kids right by now. you're, not from our really and it hearts, because you see this party thinks lawyer so close. Why can't you know like because, because you're you don't have your feelings
resolved yeah. So it's just going to be like weird, like it's probably better for for both you because, like what's just going to be weird right, yeah. Well, I'm close to a lot of my ex friends but but yeah right when that in that phase, where you're we are- and I think there's gotta be a couple years- breaker something that we wait a minute what I think I know one your ex girlfriend. I think you do. elena. Yeah yeah, yeah. Why? yeah we dated for like five years. I just realized yeah she's gray, her she's great and with them the time we were date. Well until the very end she wasn't. She was not doing music owner berger. I, as you were talking about and ursela records the same label now no you're not unworthy area. There, though last week. It was great of that so interesting now,
Well now I remembered that. I'm glad I remember the area you were for five years. She wasn't and she wasn't doing music until at the very and she started very furnaces with her brother. He also that was so. You guys were kids kind and yes, she was nineteen. I was twenty we three when we started going out, did that one hurt yeah, and that was a drawn out one yeah, my long time, five years now until she she got her new next boyfriend and then it really was We we had some time part of that yep, where you guys are right now are now were, were real fun fights one hour deal with heartbreak spoon, It's a word. You meet those guys, Jim the drummer, who's been in it the whole time with me. I met him in the ban right before the alien beats here, and sort of like a rock billy we wanted to become, free kind of thing. It was like a thing I wanted to do just get get to you do for a while and get out of the new wave pop yeah. Yes, he d country, yeah or a friend
a dj after me, at their at the radio station, just said one day I heard that skellington broke up. Maybe we should start a country band and I just said: okay right yeah. I think I know a few country songs, but that doesn't know that's not going to happen and then I call him up a week layers, and maybe that is what I should do, just something. That's like some, The us can be singing half the songs and I don't have to you know, because it heartbreaking being in the band before you know it, you couldn't get anything going, couldn't any gigs and I was playing with my bunch of guys who didn't really want to do music fulltime nea, and did you I have any love for country yeah. I was really into dwight yoakam and like hank Williams, but it was a thin. I didn't it wasn't a deep appreciation right now he didn't go. George Jones didn't go moreau, not them now get georgians are now anything I know I bet I know I bet I. I think I have one of his records, but I can't remember just voice hell of a singer hell of a singer. I'll put that in your head, okay
sing and as a guy, older and weirder still held out held up by lady but where did you find that there was ironic ran it given what you grew up in that you are doing a good point, and I really was a it felt like a vacation for me MA am and it was. It was good and then, once once we did that for a year, then we split up, and then I started a new band and Jim was in that one, and then we started this band. That was basically I dunno I mean, is very damaged by the pixies and some nirvana and damaged media. It will influence but yeah yeah. We we ripped them off up quite a bit yeah. I think a lot of bands did but yeah. Eventually we found our own thing when that became spoon.
I don't know why that name. Well, it was the name of a can. You know that being can have them yellow they have a great song called spoon, and at that time it was like you know all these one word bands where, where were all the rage like Blair, knew right away this right or like ride? And I wanted one of those. What was the journey of it? So you guys, while we we put out a couple records that were there were pretty ignored My labor was at first one is on matador, nausea, hotly oh here, member those guys the weather and are still doing great stuff, and then electra was the second one and we were dropped that big deal, the other. You did matador record yet they stood in beggars, they're embedded scribd now yeah yeah, but they still do a lot of good stuff. I get records from them, so you do. A big label deal was like a big deal right yeah, it was a big deal yeah and it was. It was hard to leave matador, but it just like we had sold. I think fifteen hundred copies.
That record the four in the first year that it came out and yet every Even matter was like yeah. Sorry, this is with didn't go so hell. we put out a record on electra and that did not so well either and we got dropped, and so so that must have been horrible, yeah yeah, but it put in that, like we had this an ar guy, who you know, brought us over there from from from matador and he basically once we signed the deal with them and he had been- no on us and so dedicated to the ban, and very you know me all over a right. You know trying to show us. He hinted how seriously was about the ban and then once weeks and then he can. I didn't come to a single show. I can get him on the phone and then he quit and we got dropped the week after equipped, and so we wrote the songs with the sort of
loosely about him. His name was le feet ralphie, and so we had sunk up the agony of le feet. We are sunk off my feet, don't follow me now and then this single that we put out was kind of the first thing that like gave the press, or whatever, anybody a reason to sort of latch on like if there was a story. All of a sudden where I know who I am now is the first thing that, and that was on a series of snakes. It ended up. as it being like a bonus track on seriously about her, and so there is like some good good press behind it, I got a little yeah adverted, I'm we have for the first time some people started taking notice, In the next time we put out a record its strengthening started happening, more you awake when you was there a point where you get drafted Actually I fuck wherever. Yes, how did that can assure a long time
and I don't really know why we kept going you no other than the fact that I I was right. Songs and I was really turned on by new of music and that I wasn't so I just kept riding saw. I mean it was really wasn't very planned out. But since I had songs, I had a ban, so I like em it we should play the song, but he felt like waiting. I thought that it will. I thought that I was poor. we're not gonna, be old, put out a record other than putting out myself near for a long time ago. I ever you square wanting in your hand, I am now what yeah and then like, you get a double mac Imagine if he had come to one of our shows yet when like when we are on matador. I think actually, and so I knew that he was. You know at least vaguely a fan, and so I got once we got that third record done
like I said it over to him how's our record dwight. You like this was like a sink or swim record and away in your mind like me, what did you do on that record? Were you like they found in it? I got mad you're sort of like. While this is it. My maya It was like this is a kick. I can't believe we're actually getting to put on record nea. I thought that it was over a year and then somehow we got got a record in and then somehow it did you ten times better than anything would ever put out before him. What's out, it seems like a pretty raw records on I listen to it today. I listen to our girls, can tell today seem very personal, the idea was, it was the first time I wrote some fairly personal lyrics, vulnerable lyrics and the whole thing started. Coming together. We are aware that when you're doing I am, I knew this is like this is Mrs Maes knew it was new musically and also new lyrically, so it just was totally new territory.
I still don't know why we kept playing a spoon and I could have. We could have started something else we could it. It made the prelude it made a lot more sense. Touching all you know what a notice at that point, We have because net there we had zero success run. We were you know when you get drop and major label, especially back then yeah. We we we had left the indian, then we went and did the major label thing. Then we got dropped and you know I remember just in it just it felt like seriously damaged goods right. There's, nothing! That's ever going to happen with this band right, but yeah we just kept doing it and and do you know why I turned around, why merge like maybe the audience for that label is different for sure. I think that they they knew what they doing they, definitely knew what they're doing more than electra did and with envy music anyway yeah right yet right with the before they knew what to do with us bright, an electrode it right and yeah. I think that the records changed and we had
store in all this stuff, and we got better- I my song start getting better and so everything's gonna start turning around so that now has been pretty gratifying to have put. Like in a row guts on the line for that album in any new turned everything around yes have been reaffirming like. Ok, it was unbelievable air and water and then, when did you just blow up completely? It was well gradually. We, the next record, kill him and lighted. Maybe you know three times better than that one and then next record gimme fiction. It too, returns better than that one and then gaga gaga guarded did even better than that. One that was a big one yeah that was like that felt like Is smaller steps actually amy? appreciate it and it yeah yeah yeah sort of like you being rewarded you know in the right kind of pace. He had out any it was it's a year, was a unique trajectory and
you did what they did like what you did. Five albums were merge five year, eureka. and why why loma vista for the new one? Well, we can adjust fellow it with time to. If we're gonna try something else that this was the record. We should try something else on random and we still got our catalog with merge, and we just you know, yeah we're on good years hundred with sam, yet they're they're, fine yeah. I think they just reissued a bunch of the records writer. They never were on a print. They got the vinyl on them yeah they did eventually they have reissued the two wrecks that came before before their time here, and how did you feel about going into this record? It seems like it was the longest time in between records. It does feel like a a comeback record or in a wage.
it just simply because of how long we've been away, I mean, and that was because I went into divine fits yeah. You know it's how that go for you. It was good. Yes, it was a blast to be able to play in a band with different people and people who, like word. You know just have a totally different thing on state right, right, yea, and so how do you feel about spoon now, I feel good, I'm I'm in it. You know I'm really into it. Yeah yeah, it's going, it's going! Well, it's fun you're having fun. It is fun, I love being on tour yeah. Actually I like going away to like if you stay in nice hotels, it's nice right, yeah! Well offs often we gotta sleep on the bus, but but bus, rare yeah? That's really get here, be ok for a while I'll, be alright, I'm sorry as your gun Tell me, then they interview was
talk any amanda gotta talk you too, and I appreciate you come and thank you for coming all right. That's it does, and I was good guy I gotta go and that britannia that ban spoon. So that's that go to deputy upon the convoy devotee of parties. Go to deputy upon the council. Calendar to check out the dates city near you and also happy birthday to John montagnier, who did arthur in song other music on the show is by dj copley, so I gotta tell you guess: rob exemplary themselves. As I told you, And the
me sloppy sloppy talley.
Transcript generated on 2022-09-17.