A guy. I would do this. How are you what the fuckers, what the blood bodies, what the fuck him years, what the plots? There is, what the fuck it Alex. What the bucket bury pins I am mark marin's is deputy. I thank you. Thank you poorer. hang out thanks for listening, to you. Wherever you are running, keep running, keep running you'll get there you'll become exactly the person you be soon it's gonna happen. You'll, be perfect. Everything we'll be in working order. You will be a machine, a machine, an efficient. Gene that will never die. I will wait that last part. That's crazy! you'll feel better and it's good for you, it's good for your heart. Why am I not doing it I'm going to Alan Portland Oregon had some great shows me in the air, the authentic character, dean del ray a ripped it up here at the alarm theatre,

and at revolution hall, which is another venue today from venues to sold out, shows killer as dean would say, today is a comic book theme show. Can we say that I believe it is? I believe it is on a spend a few minutes with the with bob fingerprint. because he's got the new additional minimum wage is comic. It's available from image comics in a minute, hello story arc in there from the old days from back in the day? Yeah and then I'm going to talk to her to Robert Turkmen, who you know, probably, as the writer creator, the walking dead along with artist tony more in easier. These are comic guys and I'm sort of a fake comic guy I'll explain that well, let's get back to the residents in and what it means to me as a human being, since I'm talking about the depth of things affecting me, so I could stay.

the place with the the with the new maud look some interesting bath products from from a relatively expensive the provider. That perhaps uses local ingredients or what not but nope, no permit the It's been quite honestly, I was excited that they had Paul Mitchell products because, quite honestly, I have not used a Paul Mitchell product since I was in highschool. So it was like washing my hair and going back in time. Perhaps I'm just getting to nostalgic but that but hey shampoo. If you haven't used it since he thought it was a big deal. Twenty years ago it sort of like I remember this smell. The amazing thing about the court yard is that you are you go down and get the free press that's the big pitch. You know I mean that's the thing that makes you want. It hey you, get up to get free breakfast, buffet from sixty nine on week day. Six to ten. On weekend and you get all that shit food, no, the waffle maker I know have hung had gotten hung up on the wall will her, but this one is packed. So you get a nice weird sort of swine,

america down there just packed with people of all kinds, families it's right across the street, from I think, a very major hospital. So you get that you get sick people, you get dying. People get people at all different phases. life eating crappy food, and if that is in america, I don't know what it is and I am not above it, I'm not. Judging yeah. As you know I have you know, I do the waffle thing occasionally I admit our admit. I've done biscuits and gravy. I've done biscuits in greece, we had a residence in and there's no way that she can be good no way, but I've done it. I don't feel good about it, but I've done it. So that's what's going on here in portland, I didn't have the full portland experience, because I I wanted to stay grounded in in in what you know not in in the the the antithesis of hipster, which is the breakfast buffet at the residence inn marriott, so comic books,

What's my experience in what is my experience? I came late. I'm always I dont know if you ve started to realize this about me, I'm always pretty late to the party by by sometimes decades, by I dont believe there is a late to the party anymore, I believe in the world we live in, even one. Say you I just was into your shown. Weight to the party might not really there all there. Can get them all so how late hour you you're, probably better off late to the party, cause any really appreciated, as opposed to being caught up in the momentum of being at the party. Sometimes after the parties over or wait where it's nearly over. You know you can really sort of see how it played out, whether party was bullshit or not so being late to the part. sometimes means that if you're late in the party still going on, maybe that was a pretty good party, but there was a pair I guess it was probably eighty

eighty nine, whereas women living in an attic in somerville, a blue attic someone had painted blue, I left it blew, can stand up fully, in that room and somehow or another, eight my time their source. The coincided with with withdrawal. of hell, blazer sandman, which were you know, just I was not a comic book. I really I'd. Never wasn't in my youth. I never was a marvel universal dc guy I'd read some underground comic books, wind you what it which I enjoyed but really my portal in was hell blazer and the real that help ways resonated with me. So deeply was because at that time I was still a sort of coming off of drugs. I was still slightly. Psychotic and paranoid from from coke, and even though I was sober at that time for about a year and a half by my brain was jarred. So when I read help ways or John constantine, I so he related to him. I was like him and I are in similar situations or pick

a lot a mystical vibes were reading. The signs were put in shit together. We have a purpose here that we ve been designated by, forces that we might not quite understand, but with some basic magic. We can harness this shit and help people. Maybe do some good in the water or at least know the fucking truth of what is happening. So I was a kindred spirit with John constantine in my fucked up brain So that's how that played out now going to sandman through that no swamp. Bring me back loaded in, I think, through how blazer nice reading some of the underground stop. Some the trials burn staff from the cloud stuff, some of the Peter bag staff in ours. brilliant chrome, but it was always very specific to that stuff. But I never full on. How do you get into a pretty big swamp thing period, As we know, the island more, the old stuff, in that I'd read the comic novels agreed some, the batman staff from the new stuff. I really you you got a brain, the fuckin locks into the graphic novel you don't. I read the watchman and I was weight to the

Already! When I read it, then I read it again and I was even later to the party but got it more. The second time I read it and then I did go on a little bender, but it's one of those things. Man, either you're gonna commit your life to it or you just gonna die. We for a while and then know that you did. I read graphic I was on and off occasionally I find that when I have the time to sit down and read anything if I walk into a graphic novel, I can do it like. You know, finger and the minimum wage as it is. It's very personal, real story about him in new york and his wife and- and it was a flattering for me to be a part of that, but I I don't. I didn't stick with it. As it's just it's a rabbit hole that never ends. You know you're going to be one of those people that goes down to the comic bookstore and picks up the fifty things that they pulled for you every week. I just uh. I couldn't keep up with that. It was not something I wanted to do. I was, I think I was more social enjoy talking to people I enjoyed going outside. It was not really my bag necessarily, but the walking

I got into those volumes. I've read em all, but curtain was. It was interesting, because I can talk to him about the business in a little bit with the with finger men as well. because it is a business out? I'm surprised how relatively easy it is to put your comic out into the world. You know whether you know the distributor of pick it up. It seems hit or miss, but it seems like they're from what I understand from these guys like. If you get it out there, you can get into stores whether people like it who the fuck knows, but that's the same with anything in this culture right now you got a podcast. Alright, I put it up, see what happens I'm in portland now, but I was in new york a couple weeks ago and bob finger many lives in new york in you know he had sent me a big stack of comic books that I men and we talk to each other, We ve got in and out near his ease annoyed me. I've annoyed him and we generally

and the level at which we engage, but I invited him up to talk a little bit about the the new edition of a of the comic minimum wage, which is bob's comic, is from image comics and I'm in it, so that that was my my drive. How am I not going to talk to bob about a comic book that he he so diligently did his homework? To put me in he research to how I was talking what I was looking like at that time, am you can check it out. You can check out the book, but this is my conversation with the with bob finger men in new york city. The pick up that mike finger men will pick up this mic there. You go see, has that feel pretty good right, so this is it minimum wage, back after how many years, hiatus fifteen that's crazy. That is crazy!

and not now one more year on hiatus and it could have gotten a driver's license yet or you don't or a yeah. Well, that's like your kid is kind of like your kid. You'll have a kid This is so much better than having a kid this. If there's one thing I think you and I can high five on it's the the decision to not have a kid yeah I mean I never know, there's always the outside chance that that it'll happen. Well, that's true, yeah! I I surgically took care of that really fast money Well, yeah! If you I mean think of it. This way you can either always have that slight fred fullness. Every time, you're being intimate, saying is this the time is this the time or you just say you know, can you everyone, teeny tiny at this point, its non surgical? Your listening to this activity talk here, but yeah I mean it it. You know. I have some friends that I think a lot of guys get very squeamish about it yeah and

I mean I have a friend who did it in the seventies, he's an older friend and that's like the old days where it was like they're, just gonna yank, all your stuff out and hurry back the horrific now it's this call it non incision they incision, so tiny, there's no blood, there's nothing! It's like! Really! It's like an l. You just sterilize yourself like that, while not yourself for you go to a highly skilled professional. I rise a thriving, be that, but it's not yeah painful. If I'm ready to do that, still rolling the dice man the only area where I get evangelical, I'm gonna, get to testify in a freer. Of, liberate yourself brother. The idea of the responsibility at this age is a little much. but your baby minimum wage comic so another, Doctors are old, now, they're, still young. The last series was taking place when I was doing it which

is when I did the original run within the not mid? Ninety right, I didn't we, to when I came back to its fifteen years later, make it. Fifteen years later, I didn't want to do middle aged rob. I wanted to do still young rob yet announced This is your mid life crisis with this is unwell. It's his it's! His pre mid life crisis now be the year in stead of what you don't think is zero leah, a great comic fodder it wouldn't be. My life now would not be good comic fodder, because I'm actually happy. So you know writing about writing. About I mean in the in the comic rob is freshly divorced at twenty five. something I was. I was firstly darius to twenty five zero. You know The feeling is, if the character ever actually achieves said a state of satisfaction. Who wants to read about that right? I I guess so I I dunno I I I was just. even the times in the guidelines for the for the broken opera house show

and the guy thought that I do ok happy. He was it was that he was surprised, but I was funny happy or you can be funny happy, but nobody wants to read about a characters happy now there has to be sent, some hammer has to come down and besides now I get to do it's like the many. What was called the many loves of adobe gillis, I gotta do that. The many failed fucked up. You know data our aim of my error. That so I mean this is europe. Your midwife sort of adventure is writing about your past. I suppose yeah and how do I factor in you? Well, you factor has is as someone my character. Much admires, I can say here, I share. You know we both share an affinity for comedy and, and he responds to the earthy honesty of your. Writing or the, but isn't it isn't the story? Doesn't a friend take you to a comedy place her well one of the failed girlfriends. Yet he he's dating this iron rand, quoting taro obsessed liberty, him gothic girl, and

He he takes her to see, again, when you're playing with mixing fact in fiction beer, you and I met when you were breakin in jerusalem syndrome- I bet at a certain point in that show where I was laughing louder than I think pretty much anyone else michelle kept. I could yeah there's certain and you can feel when someone's is looking at you more than at the performer, and I could feel Michel kept looking at me throughout that show, and she had a certain point when the show is over. She said you can't be friends with markets at wine. She said you have too much in real it's always a problem. She's, like you, you're to similar, see out You go right, but I like it being I like? The that you be researched- and you asked me for transcripts of things and say that, like you, you're you're. Your version of me is pretty spot on. I was desperately hoping you are going to have issues with it, just so that I could say the script whose punched up by mark but dynamic. meaning that we drive it in your car

I drive you around yeah yeah, there's a chance entire bury the up, star studded for many new momentum, we were kind of shabbier and, like you know, little more intense, I was I don't remember that haircut. So that's a little different. I never had that yeah, that's the that's the characters, hirko, who could spout a fountain hair like that, you got me pretty good sort of kind of walk through a bitter, the beginning of alternative comedy there yeah, whatever that wise, but the moon is not in there cause that was before now yeah no luna, no twinkle none of those. I missed that I miss twinkle. Am I right? I wasn't here for that kind of left. So what What are you ve been? So what is it can be? A comic book art is due in hiatus what even doing for fifteen years. Did a bunch more comics, but I mean you did the books the better Last year alone ice about a bunch of ireland, minimum wage came out in a hard bout, hard back bound hard back version yeah. I talked a robber corcoran beyond the comic book

yeah yeah. Oh, we go way back. Do you used to say fan mail that sets out how much either of you know how much they you. have turned. You should leave, should be right. My zombies, not me, I well yeah, maybe so it I wrote a zombie novel for goodness sake which which he very kindly blurb. That's nice, you too human yeah, but I used to send me fan mail back. I think when he worked in a light bulb warehouse. He worked at a hiding place. He told me about that. Well, that's sweet! So the hope is- it may be you're going to get a tv thing happening with this. This cast of characters. I hope so I mean you know we gave it a run back when I was doing the first run in the nineties, but there was nothing like it on tv. It was just a. And you know now- I think, there's things that actually totally have a lot in common with it. So I think that is inch. I think, would be interesting if you could set it in that time. Yeah. That might be a sticking point. I think any time, even if you're making a period peace, that's only

in the year two thousand here cost goes up so, but what am I gonna by virtue of costume in assuming yeah? I was that guy using the right cell phone. You know yeah like that, though I don't think you could do it. I like well, you know I'll put it to you this way. I am going to leave that to a network execs really, but it's not going to be a deal breaker if they say, can you set it now? Also? Yes, I have. I absolutely can, but when the struggles be a little different, the struggles would be different, but the thing is there would always be struggles, so the idea would be just to Young adults scrambling to put themselves to get and figure out their way in the world right. I think the only thing I'd I'd really have trouble with. If I made a contemporary would be do they have. To be millennials because they would be just virtue of either you. Maybe you should fight for your vision, Bob, let's get york or you are correct, sir.

Alright? I can already start to be difficult. Even before the beat eggs tell me you wanted to be in nineteen. Ninety nine party, like it's nineteen, ninety nine, yet I think that'd be the whole catch to it. Now I'm fucking, you have now like it now. You're gonna be mad at me. How far is it that two thousand is nostalgic? Threerd right, It's getting closer and everywhere and last week of being a which it sort is yeah I mean I don't know the h ones already done a week of. Remember that remember two thousand remember last week, our body, so this is the third season So is the second see that can seize and featuring mark marin cameos by burying David tell absolutely what's a guy's name again: rob hoffman rov, often bob fingerprint body, what working people? at their local comic book shop or they can get the trade paper back off amazon or any respectable. I mean, I don't worry. I wrote the forward to the trade you

You were at the forward for four from the ashes from the ashes dammit man. He did to prolific I'm doing my best, Thanks man. Thank you somewhere comic. Now with bob. That's that's exciting, exciting robert! when the walking dead. I dont know that I would have watched the walking dead or read the walking dead of one for my ex girlfriend. India and I in english zombies are great how many zombies and how much zombie can we take as a culture time will tell, but it doesn't seem like the zombies are slowing down, any time, soon. Okay, so we're gonna go to the garage now for my interview with Robert turkmen, but you should know that this is a this before he was scheduled at throat surgery. Any ease had throat surgery was nothing to serious, but it did cause him to miss comecon, so

oh that's, that's kind of serious eddie. He missed comic con. What I'm saying is that the problem wasn't used and he's on the men, so you're going to hear now the pre pre surgery voice of Robert Kirkland. And these are humble guy and is a good dude and- and I enjoyed talking to him, what's go now to them to the garage at cat ranch in there, hi park to my conversation with the robber kirkland, the creator of the walking dead along with artists tony more though one of you

tony out the protected your house protected? I think ahead the podcast. It's it's a challenge, but when I was younger I was doing comics out of my house in kentucky and a guy just showed up at my door one day and wanted to show me his comic book art in the hopes that I would hire him and was very nice to him a minute. That's a pretty bold thing. I respect that yeah, but at the same time I think I had catch in the shirt- and I was eating hot dogs for lunch- and I was like this- is the weirdest thing in the world, so I'm always worried playing ala. People coming up. Sooner stealing, my children, yeah. That's a concern! It's weird! It's it's! U have to judge how somebody broaching I mean I always have that memory. I guess this is gonna, be the last encounter that I have is is

This can only lie. I do COMECON every year and the comecon is amazing people was asked what comecon and what's the weird thing here you are what what's the weirdest person you see, that kind of offends me a little bit cause. I you know I kind of think comicon is a little magical just because it's like it's two hundred people in the convention center, but it's five hundred thousand people in the area of san diego, it's crazy and it's a very mellow. It's peaceful, it's crowded but like there's like a little bit of camaraderie and is nice, but me and all my comic book professional buddies, sit around and talk about like when our, we're going to get stabbed. You know what I mean is that going to happen, and there was a guy that given my line like after he had one was conversations, and he said to him, and I have brought you some and he like reached down into his bag and he never broke. Contact leaned down. Look at me was handling, backlog, and I was a grave in the table- is only throw this table at him if he pulls out a gun and then

I'm not gonna run he's gonna shoot people Oh a just stands and myself out of here and have you sure all these started his red thread and then he had looked like a button. is urban me thanks, but for a minute I was terrified, absolutely terrified, but that's a weird moment, because I've gone through that too, where you I I can't I'm going to have to take the hit somehow like I hit did you know? Because you look bad I really don't want to get shot, but but if people think I'm a hero, it'd be kind of cool right. I don't want to like a person you're just sort of ikea preemptively out in the geysers to like here's a comic, I want you to sigh yeah. I I have I've had that happen. I had a guy attack me on stage real well, he just he didn't seem to know that it was happening to him like he was possessed by something I pushed a button and you know and in he reacted and then, when I'm looking at him and he's in my space and we're in front of people, my going to take the hit cause. I'd look terrible if I start

I did a major stake like I'd. Never it never crosses my mind that I could win or kick their ass yeah yeah but you didn't think in that moment I I could take them out now. Yeah unable land was like where's the. What what level death? Am I going to experience here like is there? Is it trying to make the survivable, but not a stand up thing must be difficult because You know you get so personal in neuroscience things you I ain't, you know we're gonna walking dead and in all of my writing the thing I like to think about the most here. The fact that week we never really I see the same things that everybody else is saying, and we never really hear the same things that everybody else is hearing yeah. I could say something to you and you could completely you know, misconstrue it and and misunderstand it. Because you're like not following me or whatever, just because that's who you are,

that's what you're thinking when you bring something to it and the stand up thing like just you know: you're, just cracking jokes, the next thing you know somebody takes it completely personally, yeah, that's terrifying, but I imagine that the people project, I think part of people's reaction to anything you create- is projection they're having their own relationship with the thing yeah. So It is now open to misinterpretation. When you do have a couple of steps in between you, the person yes ending I was going like dad dad about me. My cave, safe working on the next one while there and the murder me she grew up in Kentucky. I did yeah and in what? What part? I don't know nothing about Kentucky yeah there's! You know, there's there's a lot to know what's cool place, but it is still It's a little soul, quaint I've learned not to condescend the the american south. I enjoy it more and more. Every time I go there, it's it's a it's a wonderful place to produces wonderful people, but great people come from everywhere. me move from Kentucky. I am always a little annoyed when people are like. How did you do it right

Are you ok? Do you need help we're right there, What happened to your mind, like I don't know, the roads are wider and there's more people nea lake, see a lot of horses, but by about roger either but you're not moving much on them that so truly dr on those streets, and think what you mostly party, slowly very slowly, but from from lexington, which is like the second biggest city raising and yeah I gotta know acting. Can I was there once, we got married on a horse farm or years ago he married a woman who comes from horses or something a lot of horses are a lot of horses. Yeah Horst, like a thorough, there's, horse breeding downing, there's like sections where there's all the expensive farms that do you know kentucky derby, horses, then you just drive in and it's like, hey there's guy over there has got to have horses. Ever got horses and not everyone, but a lot did you have worse is now? Did you write horses

Never I haven't. I resent fire gun. I've never seen a horse race. I dont like university of Kentucky basketball, I'm almost not from kentucky. What will work at work where you, where you function. Ah, my mother was a homemaker. My father was a at the sheet metal fabricator. So he would. He was like a welder yeah and he made ductwork and cool stuff like that, and he used the giant to tubes that ducked clear everyone, airconditioning areas in their helmets, putting me in all kinds of stuff and when your kids is put that that joint. You know that I had we impose on that elbow of abduct on your head itself, dangerous one dangerous, but you know like, and I rarely have sci fi fantasies of any kind. I don't I'm not a sci fi guys, though the duct bins around your head and you're. Looking for but yeah yeah yeah, it's a big duck. There was a big duct and I was on mushrooms and it was in college and we were in a basement. You do yeah! That's right! You worked ve worked workin on something, but this could be anything

in my head and as a spaceman. So that's my experience with science fiction right there. What a surreal experience! When did you start doing the the comics I mean I was probably earth it was in seventh grade. I started to start getting them. What are you what you read? What were the ones closely marvel stuff? I was out new gardeners very little. I wanted out so he almost they marble stuff, first spiderman x, men and others like the rhine, others to do the only I was allow the only way I was capable of buying comics. When I started reading comics was at Walmart yeah so cause I was small town and there weren't like comic jobs around or anything like that, and walmart only sold marvel comics as others, yeah. So there's like more about what you like, you're, actually in spider man to the right and then there's DC, which is superman man you ever so you were not involved in dc universe at all. As long as a kid, I was like NATO really care for those guys closer. I dont have access to those colleagues who wasn't anything personal, but you are

where's your alienated from an entire universe because of walls it's pretty much commitment, a marvel all of the ills that, What does to this world yet denied you? That's the universe, that's the highest on my last night, not carrying a breath of colleagues minimum. joe! You know you have people on welfare. Workin, for they may you not bad at all, but to our electorate, batman, inaccurate, wherewith superman for me exactly superman? given my ass but yeah minos. That's definitely. Sir, your stuff and then as I got older, driver's license those able to go. You know actually find a common shop and that's when agenda in a more the independent stuff- and you know things like which comics Viana do my books now write stuff. That was, you know, independently owned and a little less commercial and cooler yeah. I came comics like very late like I didn't, grow up reading them, but at I was in my cheese man, a sixty three. Seventy eight we like in my life

twenties early thirties, somehow I got into our more swamp thing, right, stuff, right and then I got turned on to that guy and then I started we. How blazer in san man from the first issues and then I entered there, and then I started to sort of do some comics around that stuff and then some a lotta, independent comics, but those are really the only two mainstream comics I got into and the swamp thing for some reason. Swamp thing was a I dunno why it resonated so much with me: it's creepy stuff but it's like that character out of all of them, like I could at that age gone into superheroes, but I liked the like. I liked the way swampy looked. I liked the whole the whole angle. At this point, I think the cool thing there is You know you're in your mid twenties Rio and any read a lot of people I feel think of comics, and they go superheroes right. You know these guys in underwear, button the holes and walls and fighting planets but unites it's it's an entertainment, medium and you ve provident go into the superior stuff because you weren't

teen or fourteen. Whatever watchmen, I read that ts gave me that night yeah, I got a couple of boxes but at, but I think the cool thing about comics. Is it there's there's stuff out there for everybody having anyone out there. Who's like I'd, never read a comic book like there's totally a comic out there for you that you would find like it'd, be the coolest thing you've ever read. I wonder if some people can't sort of process how like cause like when you read comics- and you see the panels like if you have a brain, that just does it like somehow resonates. It is next week that the words and pictures I want, if there's people out there, the right now they're just guide boxes, which will there is a body a smarter than and so he said the like you. You process words One party you breathe. Efforts is pictures with another party eyeing and sound, and so when watching a movie you're using a part of your brain is here you know, reading a book you're reading, a part of your brain and comics is really the only medium where those two parts of your brain after work in tandem because

pictures and words oh yeah, so some people like that sensation and some people, don't why? When I do it, I I don't know how much I notice things like I'll read neil quickly, sometimes because I want to get to the next thing, but I don't study the panels that much well, that's one of my favorite things about the medium year, is because it's the only storytelling medium really where your experience is really really dictated by. You read it near the year as a reader really and control of pacing and the The dialogue is read in just you know. The all kinds of different things Catherine. You know you're reading a novel. You know you. The words and you only get the picture of what is happening is ray. I words, and you know everything. Controlled television movies. But you know I can read a comic and you can read a comic and we can talk about it afterwards and get a completely different experience via from which

girls, it is awesome and also you again if you want to focus in on faces or awake little nuances of movement and expression, because why is the latter's that she just to blows by me until I go back and look yeah? I know a lot of people. Do, though, did you read at once real quick? They asked for humanity and I'll go back and be like frequently mesa yale yak, as you won't get to the story there, so I'd, say you sitting around now. Are you you got brothers and sisters either IRAN's history or older younger, are really yeah. Mother yeah, my wife and I both have siblings that much younger. much younger yes, so my my brother, my brother's five genuinely my sister's alive. years younger than me. Oh, my god, oh good with numbers and in my wife has a brother that is seven years younger sister that fourteen years younger, so you only had like of hauser it did you ever ginger with them grown up kind. I mean, I feel it every day shrivelled, my siblings. Where is definitely a distance? They are because I was

older than them? Am right? May my brother's only five years younger than me, but one of the big things? What sir? When was when a graduate school it and go to college and mine. I came to me the the year. I was grudging from high school in there hey so were moving floor and whereas if you want or you ve got a year to get a job and move out and You can say it here. I just want to do together, take it off there, and I had a girl, at the time and had lived in Kentucky, my whole life and I'd gone, afforded gazettes work. Family was from whereby parents and stuff I call it the alabama flaw earlier the social central like north. A temple they have affectionately affectionately. There's a lot of bigfoot sure trucks. no rebel flags and far too far it is a very rich in itself,

people picture like miami and not now is in its culturally eccentric is, I think, a diplomatic way to say. But but I got a job and like movies what was your job? I worked area alighting place, so they sold a light bulbs and light fixture reason for just why for housing you are invested in it I mean I started the publishing comics. At the same time, this after highschool yells a twenty year, and so I had. I worked my way up at the lighting place until I was a purchasing agent, which meant you looked at a list of items. And you look at the list of how fast those item sold and he did the math Actually they were going to sell out and then you ordered new stuff near as it was pretty simple job, and so I basically would just like run up distance bill. Stockings, printer and canada doing my comic stuff. I really should pay that company back the money I

technically stole from them. I found my im just nino. Getting a lot of work on the publishing company in my office at kentucky heating in supply. If you are in kentucky and you need lied, fixtures or anything please. Kentucky lighting supply. They are the best two service excellent products, and I owe them a very Why? Thank you just made your major amends. You pager debt, great, sounds like it wasn't that challenging job gave his time. but yeah saw your movie that you have in an apartment where your your girlfriend or rented a house or why I actually actually bought a house really cause the houses are very cheap and kentucky so I bought from lighting money not well. I I worked there for a year and saved up like a down payment of avoid five grand and then I bought a fifty five thousand our house and they how big it. there was one thousand square feet square.

it's a one bedroom, yeah, yeah yeah, and he said it was too little bedrooms. Do you still have that house? No, no! No, but I created walking dead in that house. You do yeah when you were hunger were comics did they did they function as a salvation for you were you socially kind of like awkward, indigo, engaged from the rest of reality agreed to sure, of course, but I like it, Were you in high school? Where? Where did you were you with what we are doing What I mean I had, hair, and I listened in havana and you know somebody Really you are socially you aren't. I wasn't completely socially inapt, I had friends and stuff, but I ll. Really far out in the country, and so when I wasn't at school, I didn't really had access to other people any. If you again I don't have a shot gun now, really in not one who your friends was right, let's go shoot, my dad's got. No, I mean I as a child. I think my great strength was it. My parents would say

Don't do this it's dangerous yet in my head I would say: I'm not going to do that because it's dangerous it would never do so. Friend of ours. I gotta go you and your should really I'm going to go home now, yeah yeah, scary scary gun pretty much the buggy aids, the cat. tree and can tell me I grew up in new mexico, which is not exactly rural, but you know what we doing, knocking mailboxes. I would have bad sweden, catholics, europe, No destruction no go around the world in taking that. that nerd anger out on inanimate objects in our own eyes, completely boring kid I mean I would basketball terribly. There was a girl church. street of country that had a basketball who and you could go there. picked on by older kids yeah. So I was like. I want to go, play basketball and have fun, but there's kid there. It's gonna show up at some point if I'm there for forty five minutes at some point. The time period he's gonna come here

he's going to be mean to me, so I don't know why they get away my options here. I think I'll. Just read: x, men again, yeah yeah, why maybe I'll just read x men at the basketball court? Then you really take some shit, but so okay, so you start in comics reading them in seventh grade. When do you start noodling? Your doodling? While I mean I I you know you any comic book reader that you know likes to draw is going to be copying sure you know the like copying stuff exactly in bellingham, a good artist to look guess thing, and I tried to recreate every line exactly that's all right. I actually strive to be accomplished artist You know very early on and then I realized that, what's at the chops say by also of just written comics, aided working at a calmer chump after I'd work. Therefore, while you're the guy is diamond seventh. Seventh, twenty more here we worked on walking dead and unity

What's with me Ni Da sent me some stuff yeah, I think he did some drawings for you, yeah yeah. He did for the for the ic show they were grand. So you met him in seventh grade. I met him. My wife and after it said the wife, your with that's, that's, that's loyalty, freeway, evasive, so you and tony would read comics together and go the comic book store together. In the end we- and we know we always wanted to do that- kind of stuff visa and then after high school, you know each have to touch, but would really see each other all that often and but I want to do. I do comics going to draw and I knew he was really good but the, but he was like in college and like to install your girl college younger, couch He drawing I'm an idiot yeah. You still got our college in our work. And so I mean we would see each other frequently, but it's not like. We were hanging out doing comics all the time and so busy with

Gonna go, do not try to draw myself and and and didn't, work which comic was that well, I was there was a wrestling comic book called between the ropes and and it was, it was horribly drawn over the angle. The angle was there no Where does a comic about wrestlers lives? side of the ring bright and so was about them like reading scripts and discussing who's gonna win, and you know it all I texting behind the scenes we big wrestling fan. I wasn't, but wrestling was very popular at the time, and so I liked wrestling as a kid, but it kind of fallen out of it and of you know it coming out. Unlike doing comics, I wanted to do something that would like you, don't have an audience. Sir you'll get my foot in the door, Just striving to make sure that you know it was interesting to me like going through and doing the mine seen stuff, but it was basically a blatant like hey wrestlings, really

popular I can do. I can do this and it'll actually be wrestling. Fans will buy this because there are a lot of wrestling comics at the time, but they will basically take the undertaker into a superhero right leg, no wrestling in that comic or humanness yeah? It's like I don't know why. People that enjoy wrestling would necessarily read that comic, and so that was my angle, but I drew it and it was horrible that I submitted it to our distributor and they sent his next letter back. That's like we leave. We have our committee has deemed this book is not of professional quality and- and I get that letter knows- is part of the most devastated. I've been in my career paths, pretty upset so you're working at the comic book store and you sent it to. the distributor that you are dealing with yeah yeah. That's how I learned the ins and outs of like we're comics comfort on babies are made right. He descended the distributor well

Now you do it you. You know you make a product and you send it to the distributor and they'll decide whether or not they'll distribute it, but it's so that your your plan was to hand, publish it to self publish yeah. Why certain number of copies? So you would take care of the printing and everything else yeah and that's, that's what you earned at the store? Was that, like you need to be marvel? You don't need to be you could why not? If you mean it was to the nuts and bolts of it were kind of insane and only to incite baseball, but you do it. You could basically take like twelve hundred box and, like the company that I worked at can in writing as apply really loved having their employees of Heaven. and to keep working for them, india, so they would give you small loans, and so I could that would be like india, lonely. Twelve hundred bucks, I get a princess comic, didn't you that yeah make sure here you go back in a year. That's when I started as soon as between the ropes was turned down. That's when I went to tony moore and we did battle pope yet battle of that sea of the the fallen pope yesterday

my first published comic again I was Hey. You know what no one key. It was about me. No one cares about tony. No one has to read a book by us yeah. I need to do something. That's going to get noticed. Writing something- and I felt like you know I, if I but a book called battle folk. I would want to know more about it yet so so that was my angle, so you guys use Sorry, why do you storyboard it? Is that what you do or how do you work? How does that process work? Weird, because I didn't even know how to how to write. You know yeah, because of that I didn't write scripts. I basically the pages story boards yeah I drew lay out in like a really terrible form gave Tony and he would like turn them into comparable pages. Ok, but you wrote that the dialogue. I would basically like draw the comic right. The word but and then give her to him and he would draw a better version of the comic and then he'd make better versions of the word balloons and published. When will you guys having fun? It was a lot of fun.

I mean. Did you do before you with? How many did you make with the twelve hundred just the first one yeah? He just do one and in the way that would work is, I would borrow that I mean it was kind of easy as the distributor would tell you how many books were pre sold before you made. So I could go okay, they ordered eight hundred copies. Eight hundred copies is going to make me thirteen hundred dollars. It's going to cost me twelve hundred dollars to print two thousand copies and you can't really print lower than that. So I'd borrow twelve hundred dollars, give it to the printer they'd print. It distribute, send me three hundred bucks pay the loan off have one hundred dollars in your antonio fifty bucks, a piece yeah I mean I I had a job and tony was like working at college. So in the early most of the time? I would just give him, because you know drawing the book was a lot more difficult than what I was doing. So I would just give him the money that was nice here is a hundred bucks. So now how many did you do we are doing. I think I don't even remember now. I feel terrible twelve or thirteen and they solve.

I mean it was actually a pretty good. I mean the average book in the bachelor catalogue would sell. I wanna, see six hundred copies or eight hundred on the back of what cattle, the big distributors catalogued, there's only one distributor and comics. So in comics everybody knows the distributor and the catalogues it's one place. Let's call cop diamond comic distributors. There it fence the company, I have to say that these are the only show in town, but they actually are pretty good and they'll take anything that they deem that they can sell right. So any oh, they distribute marbles books, re images, books, all the big companies, all the little companies people that are making comics out of their basement by the. How old are you you're younger than me? I'm thirty six. So I because like it seems to me that there was a time where, where comic sort of took a turn in its in our lifetime, we're like they were kind of it, not a dead medium, but not a huge medium and then all of a sudden. Now they dictate contemporary culture exclusively. Pretty nice

it's good for someone in my position. Do you do you any sense of when that happened I mean did. Does it? Do you think about that? I mean, I don't think it's a lot of things, but I think the historical we cannot forget: opticians had always been a movie studio or television studio or somebody here, like the seventies, incredible whole core sure. You know the superman batman movies to where they would say yeah yeah, yeah years this stupid comic. Now going to get a real screenwriter in here and a real director and great actors, and we're going to make a great movie that you know. Canada has something with that comic, but we're gonna make it better, because that comic is piece of shit and no respect and I think somewhere in the late nineties, or so unlike brine singer me, the ex man and seemingly meet spider man. There. Actually people that had an affinity for these characters in affinity for the origins and like actually like comics and respected as medium and actually started light adapting the comics in not

one hundred per cent accurate ways and they're definitely shortcomings here and there what a want you know like I dunno yeah. What's the You don't need to give an excellent whatever none here. Just tell me tell me like but the excellent and leather suits out other certain things about those move was what geysers with asia, whatever you know, you are not this pod gas to reveal how much nerd I know I really do. I only look We can't do. Spandex it's gonna, look ridiculous! Islet, sunlight! little color and then everybody would you want an injured butter asked me were the x men we owed like those? Does everybody Those richard donors should remember media, but he takes the emblem of his chest in his like a throwing star, lady why? Why did that just happen everybody loves those movies they like, yeah yeah. That part terrible, but everything else around it was right,

It really is like a part where he's flying with Lois and there's this horrible poem going on in her head and they're, not talking it's like. Are they speaking telepathically like I dunno? real terrible and they entered movie, which are so. People are like her burma revolt on first of pneumonia. It's not it's garbage actually garbage. This man flies backwards around the earth. and changes it's rotation here and and and time reverses that doesn't even make sense. It's the dumbest thing ever and the thing is like they're like it's called book yeah, you know yeah, but it's not possible and that's what you need. Is that so you have problem with the logic vs, because it doesn't even follow the logic of the story. The comic book right look superman, comics from like the thirties and forties like he would pill and have a lion head. First, for an issue. Today it is line, had liked her pretty ridiculous by a loud, rather see that

but he couldn't argue that I really would if they took a story from the old, what eggs abilities, gotta lights had that's the whole story. How do I get rid of this lions head? couldn't argue their own seas that try to do that with the the survey movie that happens after several members of banning. I want that eddie Henry Henry cavill takes a pill, Go lie ahead for the movie, it's just them hanging out with us. Try not a biter going to get rid of the line it in node. Nerd could argue with him. Like that's the story, the story, the saga was, I like a wish I was out of its time or or what I think if I buy like, sat down and watches movies it there. I mean they're, compelling you know, and I Damn I loved their. They hope laser stuff you, I guess you Here is more we'll my bag, but John constantine was kind of a superhero in is weird way. I mean. That's me: let the cargoes that's my point of late there's, so much yet in comics light in order low, recognising like road to perdition

ghost world constantine. These a comic book worries the nurse over your vote the robber, where Williams, the artist the painter, didn't, know his stuff. He you know he sort of makes an argument that you know. Comics are the most popular art form and have been since ancient egypt like Hugo home. go back to you know the hieroglyphics the comics. You know that pictorial representation in very basic way is more, is more as a art. Wise has been around communicating to people since the beginning of communication to sort of justify the language of pictures as in the history of art meaning comics have been around for ever in a line yellow differently in a cave paintings, the jar sequences of things and that's a technically complex, be, I think, that's right. The cave paintings were com is right. We set it here. So if you death, those cave paintings, don't have the unwary fly around the world, It now reversed time now that it out by two aimed and gay so much shit for bag and unanswered, permit me you're. Can we really I'm sure what I?

what their neutral later there's do. How dare you there's different camps? Sure the right way You talk about ones, you saw when you were a child, you, those are old once their own list, if the people there hanging on a richard donner went on to do those lethal weapon movies. I don't mean to criticize yeah definitely a fantastic director on sixteen blocks. I'm too old for this shit. Remember that tanev so uh. What's the name of your first comic book label, funko trone go tron where'd! You come over that nowhere, I a body of ours in high school had done sculpture of a robot head called the called the foger chronic drive it near. We were just sitting around spit balling yeah, What are we? What we do in Oregon, colosseum comical company and I was like- I always liked- and even the sculpture jason did. What have you got company factual, and that was it now is prime Are we for battle pope yeah? I did a publishing some other books but yeah, which only-

I didn't, I followed you called in punks, another intelligible, double take and young couple things earner. These big collectors things No I mean I don't. I don't believe in other exist, a really! So if you listening please by them on Ebay, so that we will go up because I still have boxes and box and of these books all of em battle. Pope. Why I was on a pack rat. And so early on in my career, I was like a picture that have enough of these comics so that my grand kids and the greek is drink. Always is access to these wonderful works of art that whatever beer and and so I think I like tooth house copies when I was seldom trade? Julia s? Tough? But but it may be thousand and I'm a little little exaggerated. I put three thousand sell like eighteen hundred and twenty five hundred or so and then keep the rest and just collecting dust. But the funny thing is, I have kids now and they could be less interested in what I'm doing psych. How old? Are they

and six, but but they like, oh you, you do that. Reality is normal and so, like me, growing up with a father that, like you know, did sheet metal and yet and stuff. I'm like I make comics my kids so so with my colleagues and we're going to be so neat and, unlike I am online talk, show or something like on Conan O'Brien wants and what kids come in here. Look your dad's on tv! so young village, I guess everyone's fathers anti. Right day. I dont care. Why is it special I'm playing about me that? But then they don't like comic stuff My son reads my daughter's little younger can indeed she six. But my son, my son reads comics that I didn't do that. We're going to go on for a while, there's a there's, a great comic from scholastic called amulet, and it's very appropriate for his age and kind of geared to him and he's got like all six volumes.

book keeps asking me: when is volume seven coming out of zen is genetic, and meanwhile, when he was like for my daughter was a baby I was like. I do walking dead and outcast and all this stupid stuff that kids, my kids, are going to be able to even watch until they're like sixteen. So I'm gonna do something, and so I got with this artist, buddy jason howard, and we created this thing called super dinosaur. Yeah cause. He had kids too, and we were also doing a horror book at the time, and so super dinosaur is a. Is a genetically altered. Nine foot trend source rex, let's get to like giant robotic If the alarms that he operates with little joysticks near and he's got his little buddy named Derek yeah, it's like six or eight or I don't remember, and they they fight bad guys together, and I did it specifically for my cats. Yeah just and I have four volumes of that book and I can't get them to crack. The cover won't even look at 'em involved as that

did did his kids, like it yeah his kids actually enjoy it, and these rarely raised his kids better than I do. Were they available to the public? Did you or did they do all right? Okay, okay, yeah! I ended up just to you know putting it on hiatus for awhile to focus on other stuff, because there's only so much time in the day, but I plan to get back to it eventually now good I so now it's get so you got funko tron Fung. Is that what it is funko tron? That's it comics that happen Going you made two hundred dollars ever know. There have been three three hundred dollars in euro. Anyone Jim house in kentucky view and tony- are brainstorming. Drugs, involve weed Well, there you go again. My parents were like hey bridget knew and I was like okay, few beers nope, nothing. Now I'm almost a puritan, but not really. Nokia religious person now now decide so you just there sitting there

Thank you to back. So how do you say that there is actually nothing interesting you found me. I thought you know note. The imagination is profoundly interesting. That mean that What I mean, obviously that's: where gets you off right yet so so how walking dead happened because I am ever. I have the first batch of books is. I was dating woman, whose crazy form in some sure for smart woman yeah. You have done and we watch the walking dead together. First few seasons- I have not checked in, but I'm sure that episode of your show that's right. We did yeah, that's exactly sort of what happened, but did that offend. You know not all. Now things does great. Yet, please so they told me I honour of his True there, like a girl like you do, the vienna pike s, nose, a girl isn't working day and they're like yeah yeah. I don't think he's watched it or he doesn't want. He thinks it's stupid or whatever, and I was like that's awesome. I'll do the podcast, but I dunno even did this, but I was like I'll do packets, but you have to tell him partition.

To tell him or whoever have than we can't. I want you to know, I said I said just don't I'm doing research right! Think, that's any after eight, like I do rarely I rarely great, though you were right on target for me too. Maybe not watch the working day turn on and I need watch it, and I was at that that was more the air that was more the characters so because that really depicted right when it started bench well, but things on that show that, and I thought they were real were. Let me teach you a lesson about now how entertainment, where it looks like people, you're telling me the things those people were doing what he say. I sought happening here so we had it not be real. I think those conversations happened initially, but I did begin to watch it with her and I got into it. I followed it for a while, but I didn't like in the car I read the first few. I remember how many I read, but I did enjoy

wait. What I watched well, that's next and I'm you know, I'm not being diplomatic. I liked It- and I enjoyed like I was compelled by the story by couldn't keep up it's like maybe some day, I'll watch them all, but you're, never gonna start make I'm right. It's gonna go on forever, did you ass? They give us permission. Was that you did you have to give us permission to do the working then there was a real amc amc owns. I have see I'm sure jury was easier when it wasn't as easy to think yeah, and I saw how does it come about with what I I you know? I was watching a lot of I. I was not allowed to watch horror films when I was a kid why for a protected child, I dunno like they said it would scare me, oh so, every halloween I was allowed to watch one poor from visa halloween celebration and watching heller easier if free, how razor yeah, that's the one with the cabotage pins in his, so anyway, so I never got to watch

They were marrow zombie films, Jordan watch him until I was lake eighteen nineteen, you know when I was, You are living in that house in my parents had left me alone in kentucky and move down afloat. and so really gonna. Do I'm really. You know watch and more moors. Ami films are going to lose your fault you stuff, and these an italian during the year. It's done a bunch isn't before zombie movies and I loved him. But I was like you know, at the end of the day like what are these people doing like you know, zombies attack run away from zombies into We ve either. Die or they write off into the sunset and what what happens next and there was never any color zombie series boxer So I guess how do we live with his arm? Begin like like an ongoing ever all right here. every move either like well,

it's covered in zombies and we're at a time so see you later folks, yeah and was like like how do you continue to like find food and shelter and protect your loved ones and live? for years and years, any sugars without ongoing, rasselas, X, ray and- and and how does it look fuck, you in Austria, the weak people becoming strong and strong people becoming. We can save you overcoming insane and not just the kind of transformation that you'd be able to. You know like play with india in a work with care. Why isn't that kind of a story? You don't seem to you're not going to solve the problem, the aria, the zombie problem. Maybe you never know. I mean the goal. Look if exclusive to the what the fuck podcast I do hope the talking bird goes on long enough. It you know when it ends there, like

good thing. We took care of those zombies. You know, you hope that the humanity pr perseveres people talk about how walking dead is very bleak and and if you take a certain cross section of the story, you know yes. horrible people, are getting of one's eaten in there and I horrible time they turn into zombies yeah but out. But I see the story you know from beginning to end. Like over many many years, and so I think, is very hopeful story about humanity, overcoming this insurmountable love apocalyptic intuition, so, okay, it's just going to take them a long time to do it for as as long as they want another season. Yeah easy look at amc

popular sylvia and they may seem to want to go for fifty seasons here and it may go for fifty season right, but you know there is definitely an input at some point, for I think that the popularity of the show to me is just it is like wait a minute. We actually gonna get to do this, because the idea is yeah like this. This story, that's like or hunger than it has any business of being, but it's that links in and watching those characters of all over that time. That's gonna be able to make it be this. peace. When it's all done, you look back on it and you're like what the hell yeah either they were just killing zombies right, like totally fucker solely like an arc here and there's like thing going on and why didn't didn't? The story? Was about this right, I knew in pretty early on that there were some sort of episodic YE know that it was more about these people than it was about killing. Zombies. Nay, I mean is different:

and they could go on as long as the as the world turns really. He gone for twenty five thirty years, let's hope let's hope for. Let us be honest season. Sixteen! You know that I'm not even get we watch and the ship when you jumped the shark that receive happening seasons. Do not be over. Oh yeah I'll, be like us, latino yeah, yeah yeah Oh god, I don't care only to get. I don't even get tv on my boat Transcended tellers exactly this vulcan fly has become international. Yet I haven't checked in with the walking dead. Have we gone to other countries? Yet the story wise? No, but I mean it's very popular overseas as a show now. Why have you? Why someone's, when are you going to get him on a plane, fly into know? What's what's going on in europe, I mean that those are all great questions and we may eventually explore But to me I don't know, that's all it's it's while just keep it in mind and water. He has about building a fence, you know when you may get bigger and

you know when you run into probably gets less interesting to me, I'd earth widely to see what the? U now I'd like to see what china looks like full of zombies and either I'm sure we're doing this work indeed, spin off and I'm sure, if it does well will be working to china. usually letter look I've been out with this meant nothing I it says how fear the walking dead and it sir, It's another group characters existing in los angeles so which is critical. for me, because if the franchise like the new on order, you can have let's hope, taxes walking dead, an illegal war crossover borderline blocking their great walking, this vienna, watching this malignant empire take over the world who it was de jure do another one of those guys the right now well, canadian walking to try and avoid sounding looking complete, sell out beer. But let's all acknowledges a spin off in a walking dead, and I

I from Kentucky I've been one time in georgia from the south at what you know and so the walk, It really was like a cool like exploration of my region and the kind of people I know and experience in the oven. All this right, an end. You know between walking, tutsis and one to two. I moved out to LOS angeles and living on the west most of the added in and it is in a very different and in and I have a different life experience of different things going on. we have, and so one amc was like the walking dead. Popular and we're going to spin off with or without you would you like to do a spin off that is now announcing on just kidding I was. I was again others nocturnal you there because I created walking dead when I was twenty three. They are so I'm a different personnel I like to say I'm older, fatter and slower, and so you know, let's see what old at slow me. You can do as opposed to the twenty three year old piece of shit that you know he did that other thing so, but wait when

hey. So let's go back to that moment where you that the seed was born, so you were inundating yourself with horror movie yeah assembly and wanting Omby movies are held anyway? How did I gotta keep golly? I saw I wanted to do this and we move that never ends, and in you you just scripted out the first, how many books? Well I mean the funny thing about them in the great thing about working did was I did it at a time when I had never had a success right, so I created lose zombie movie that never ends at a time. what I've never had a book last may in six issues we have about folk, but right, really did well. I just published it stubbornness, but us Oh yeah. I didn't know that it would. If you read the first six issues that we cover like a break neck amount of story, then the whole lake love triangle. The show with rick, shane and Lori is concluded

sixth issue and that's all wrapped up in that's because I was plain for many many many years and I had like seeds place that I would do no keep going if, if the book did but I didn't know that was actually the last passed as you six right, and so yeah, I kind of wrote it in a way that if there was never anything after issue six, you know you kind of get a complete story. It's about this. You know cop and his wife and his infidelity, and it's kind of it's kind of sad there's a resolution there and you know at least it's got closure yeah. If it didn't happen, and then it did well what it did, it took off immediately the the comic actually that the The thing that people talked about on the show is like every season does better than the last and it's crazy and it's breaking all the trends, and you know more people are watching it and it's cool because they're, you know that all happened with the comic just at a much smaller scale so the of people when I started doing the show would be like.

please pretty good interviews. He doesn't sound like an idiot and it's because we're doing interviews on the comic and had been kind of cutting my teeth in the comic space, and you know like dealing with all that. Can it so I've kind of dealt with everything. I'd have to deal with what did show and like a much more manageable ways. It's gonna prepared me for it and pretty cool way. What is the relationship between like a writer and an artist when you're making comic books. How does that work ought to very close relationship. I think you know of whose outcomes arguments you know what's more important than the other yeah blah blah art is more important, but you know the you know it's it's. The scripts aren't that much differ in the tv scripts. There are probably a little bit like if you handed a comic book drip to a director, they'd, probably yell at you, because you know there's a lotta like yours, from this angle in this happening here right we're looking over this person shoulder to see this, and rightly so. When I started writing television, there were like I hear, you're tellin, the director added direct, stop doing that right.

So so there's a little bit of formatting difference, but you know it's it's! It's two people coming together decree work of art together, which is which is pretty cool. there's a lot of conversations that go on. You know outside of the scripting process. We owe a debt, but I mean it's. You know it says the writer wicked sketches yeah yeah. I try not to do that, cause. It's it's a tough job and you know you can be precious with rings where I work comes in and there's a lot of comic book writers. That will say you know that will get things redrawn here and there because certain panels and come out how they wanted to. But I try to avoid that as much as possible and in other there's a lot of back and forth is a letter like you know, early drawings are shown, and you can all you know. Maybe that face should be. Iraq. I can wanted the get have this expression division, Why would those shoes yeah exactly and how may did tony right. The first heard tony drew the first six years, the out just the first sick there and you

Is there no longer friends that that the deal I feel like you, ve, been on the internet, a little bed, the I mean it's. It's definitely an unfortunate think I mean I still love the guy fur if he called it adds value to kidney. Like there's a history. A real real right, but what yeah? We definitely drifted apart, so you know over this, I dont mean over the comic in the city, that success you break was a prettier Finding moment thing in both of our lives ass, it is other is, but it settled. Yeah. I think we're cool now and rain, but none orange yeah- it's not here. He asked is one of those things the woman. I did it, who have the show? I she was like she, she loved the show, but she also read the comics and she's acted. It's not the comic after a certain point. She's like this. This is not what happened in the comic.

now are their purists? Have you won over all the people that work with you're. Never gonna win everybody over and in the truth of the matter is not become a casino there's. Some people prefer the like there are there other people that read the show or they watch the show tat show. I agree I'd watch, I just take it and taste it in. However, you have to just buy it. I have to pay for college, but yeah, but have you know there are people that like to watch the show? first and then only the collagen there, like where's they'll, dixon, Jamak sucks. You know so it goes both ways but does when it can the working on the show on in the writers room right so when they were always start every season with picking a chunk of the comet to adapter in already moving pretty linearly with the comic nowadays. is the comic a heavier ere they become anyway. I bid when fanatics

oh right of issue. Seventy five of the comic here was coming when the show started. Ok and the stuff, that's it you. Seventy five was adapted in the season finale season, five, so starting with isn't. Six were adapting comics that were coming out post. The existence show a hopscotch but we've got one hundred and basically of you behind. I have one hundred and forty four issues and that's the bible for the show yeah way yeah. So we sit down at the beginning of every season and we go we're going to adapt from here to hear me out of the comic yet and then we go okay. How does Daryl dixon fit into this because he's not in the comic? How does carol into this because she died way earlier in the comic you know. What do we do with all the important storylines with andrea because she died in the show and is still alive in the comic and and and all of those things kind of bring about an organic process of turning? comic into some air. Turning the the show and is something that is interesting to me because writings

anything again would be boy, are you capable you can honor some of the storylines that you think are worth worth it and you are attached to by creating new characters for the t, v right, right and and there's a lot of new stuff. Gets put into the show that we can do more things down and I have used it would seem you could do if anything, with a comic which you can but that the whole medium is different, the comic definitely gets a lot darker. Didn't I mean it's not even I don't know it's not even that we're like restricted amc or anything like that, but I know that there's a theirs assumption that you know, if you get too unrelentingly dark, you can turn away, some of the audience that people get attached to the struggle and and and relationships of the people that they like. I guess yet. So, let's talk about sea, like has rightly, we go home with a walking dead, but before

the t v show you know there was a you had a life as a comic book writer. I still have a real life as a comparable griner, whatever your your tv guy, not, all right, how three comic books a month according to say you write six, it where'd you get the gig written for marvel. Ah, they read you know walking dead invincible and some other image books. You hired me toward an image, what who runs out without zoo, immeasurably having other natural label is published, So image complexes like this beautiful anomaly in the world of entertainment seven artists from marble in nineteen eighty two left and they basically this company. That was the camp they would want to work, for and so the publishing entity itself only takes

a small percentage of the profits to keep the lights on and keep the employees that dual the administrative you know, production work and things like that employed, so I think the actual percentage, like eighty percent of all the profits go to the creators and it's the only company in existence in any form of entertainment, where it's actually like, founded by creators and instead of you, know, cause tv gigs great. But the majority of the money that the walking dead tv show is generating an amc, particular but you're saying is an artist collective, yeah yeah. So I mean it's it's now the third largest publishing company in comics and it gets bigger and bigger. three months and I feel a little overtake DC comics in the next five years or less left free, exciting and you're on your part of it. Now I am a partner in it now I was lucky enough to a cogent yeah. This guy represents what we like that. I think the way they put it to me as they were like a war

getting old and wood. to conclude I with us, so we need to bring in some younger partners awhile. I guess but maya, my way, it cancels out. However younger I am then all of huh, so I think we're all still going to die around the same time so who are looking for new partners? Who else did they brought in if you're fifteen at least they're working on comics mac yeah? We don't eat bad writing. carriers are better and the united artist actually signed. It started. Similarly in terms of movies, yet he goes to show the utmost. I dont know what they're jane luxurious, Jane pick charlie chaplin there like these, these studios are taking our money. I don't mean to sound like I was disparaging amc, anything it's it's an inn. Simple: modeled replicate in movies, anti man course, just because the economics and comics You know twenty more and I could sit in a room as twenty year olds and make a comic book by yourselves publish it. You know, and you can still do that right.

oh with on the biggest comics journal. You'd need, all you need is labour, and if you're working for yourself and making your own thing, it's very easy to produce a thing without the publisher and obtain much money and it's this is still the love. This is your love, the comic yeah I mean I, I wicker, I spent a small portion of my hey every day. You are working on comics so and what which are the ones that you have walking dead, that is running the walking dead, a doable called outcast started last year, the exorcism thing, okay, and and I'm I'm bound to say that it's you know we're start filming the first season and I am asking you for what network sentiments. Oh yeah, so you get cable yeah! That's can get really filthy. I can't wait. The pilot. We Screening recently for international buyers of the island. And I watched in an audience, it was an audience ever and when it was over, I was like.

yeah yeah they should have. They should stop me shudder was uncomfortable. I was like yeah. I've definitely crossed the line where what line I can't say There's there's a lotta there's a lot of violence. What is the is the the angle of the of the sphere of the of the book. It's sorry, I no, it's you wanted me not to do research. I honours your wish I'd, giving me the opportunity to pitch this platform. Esa is Secondly, why I'm here what we want? We pray many different wait. I want you to say gives me the opportunity to tell you the story that I created a wonderful thing: I'm proud of gold outcasts, the comic book sure ok, gimme, the pitch I'll take the page living in this town does changer vocabulary. I guess it doesn't really needs to be a good guy man. He asked.

Can tell us now if it was a pitch yeah cynical, I hate myself so much Oh, but no, it's a oh again! It's I love exorcism! You know movies love the exorcist. You know, there's like four diverse sectors: exorcist movie, so good, it's great stuff and and again like the demon stuff is terrifying to me. I really find zombies, scary per se, many more emulate around a long time and I never really well. You know early thing when I watch the movies. I found a very interesting and compelling, but I never really crept down by them, but but I and like there's always like they never let you is only what is ended. So never like the resolution of like criticism of visa, because it's always like this. I've got a demon Adam, yet let's go get a demon out and then they do what you're mumbo jumbo demons out until the end of the movie is like sweet,

he's bad guy to never delay them here, let's go home here and I'm like well. Why don't you find out how the demon got in him then forgot how to stop it, and why don't you figure out how to keep where's the antidote like. Why don't you like vaccine, the vaccine yeah so so outkast is kind of an exorcism story about you know this guy kyle barnes, who you know is his whole life is plagued with people that have been possessed around him, and there are certainly some interesting things about him that will come to light. series, but its treating demonic procession like a solvable problem and would sooner actually in general, yeah yeah. I guess we're going to the source and figuring out how to prevent it and figures The aim is an amazing how it works. Why they're here, while trying to accomplish what this neighborhood, why this neighborhood? Why, despite exactly My property values are in tune with the demon possession building to find out. You can resist and can be moved

another area alright I'll check that out, though that sounds great and I'd like to an excuse to get back into comics, just need a fucking time. You know it's not your problem, better. I know I do mr care about common make this. Why do you think it's a fucking popular this walking dead business on a cultural level? I m sure even ass. I question I've tried to figure it out south me. I have theories, but no one came on an all your career I don't know. I mean, I think, like you twenty four hour new cycle and everybody talking about you know, Drought in California are all going to run out of water and we're going to die and big earthquakes going to come and kill us, and you know the global resume and you know that global warming and, like always, that like were constantly being fed. This diet of bad news and gloom for the future

it's actually kind of work. Tomorrow, land was about which of his great movie. I had told damon lindelof that I really love the message of that movie, so I feel like I'm now cribbing on it, but anyway I you know. I think that did people like constantly thinking about, like cantor civilization and and will our civilization ended, something you know, there's a lot of preppers people that you know have big basements, full of yea, munitions, supplies and stuff, and I have yeah. I think that the walking dead is a very digestible way to explore those thoughts right. You know it's it's I saw rick grimes do this. I would have handled it this way right. Oh that's, a smart way to do this. I would have done this and how would I fare in this world and how you know what I do and and it's it's it's very personal. You know you're watching a show, but

extent the show is making think about your family and yourself in your life, near stability in your safety in and also the morality of treating former humans. That's a big one, yeah, I mean caused very interesting that it's a manageable apocalypse that people survive where, however, it happened, it's it doesn't seem to be going away and these were once people. I think that was like what drew me in the most was having to reckon with the fact that this loved one? Is now a monster? Yeah man, that's that's the that's the like heart, breaking emotional thing about it to me. You know I mean I think, that's the the real you know spark of the walking dead. It's not. Oh. I've got to go, kill his mother,

it's after me, it's all my god, my mother is dead and her corpse is like, like she looks like she's alive, I see a spark of the woman. I knew in her eyes and like she's, going to eat me if I like what the like for the hell of that whole bit of business with the governor and his daughter, oh yeah, but in the comic is a mayor was apparent like I'm like. I don't think I would be able to kill a reversion to my child bright like I don't like to think that I'm the kind of person that would you know your will, people and feed them to my zombie child. They would be passive enough for me to allow them to brush their hair, but logic to it. At the end of the day was character different in the comic no, I mean he eat. You know he had the bucket a body parts that he would feel the kid. Air brushing seen you know was definitely something then I think was was wasn't me. It was some bread

writer in the writers room. It was like what if well, is actually brushing your hair yeah. I guess that's true. It's it's! It's survivable apocalypse that that doesn't involve new talks, sir inability to breed like all the human needs. Around and they are still met. The same way they're just a lot of dead humans who are now walking and that are obstacles to getting those needs. Man, that's And I guess predominant very well, and I guess production is stop those who eventually you're gonna crab tap out of what sir, what's available While I you know you gotta, you gotta have a little faith in the human spirit. I think that to me telling me to have faith sorry, I apologise I take it, but now I mean I can have paper. You telling me to have faith that you, like, you believed, left a lot of nice. Hence that things might be. Ok, maybe maybe so So now, there's an entire issue of the comic book about how they like figured out.

Mrs green and make burst out. They have good answer. what I would like it I was so excited about that. We gotta get back to their initial comment about the making bread yeah like that. Sir. Yes, if we get till, he sees nothing. There's gonna be a whole episode about them, cookin loaves of bread and be like only bread. This is amazing s great getting back to the earth. Finally, the other zombie. ro breaded it. Yet we feel we. Finally, we value what's important in life and stripped capitalism down to it exist anymore, we're living off the land factors more the dead people, don't know words exactly well game. Well how? How are you suddenly into your sort of new to you know? What would your position in the world as a screenwriter? I mean the are you you got. A movie

coming out yeah. Well, I may I produced a movie called air fear. It's coming out in august, didn't write it, but does written and directed by guy chris encounter mesa who's, a really talented video game director- and this is the first movie It's a it's a good movie! It's really good good and you're, not write movies. I mean I'm a I! They just announced the sur, it's funny like the elite that I'm part of the transformers yeah. You know writer's room thing and I don't even know if I'm allowed to confirm that. But sure I do when they might be happening might be happening. Sure sure it might be happen again. I can firms or deny I will talk, is that it is definitely things happen, and the fun thing about hollywood, though, like we were totally like negotiating the contract, and I didn't know if I was even going to have time to do it. So we were talking about like what window I was going to have to work and everything and and then it was like hey.

it's closed. It's gonna work we elect two hours later was like hey you're on variety of reform. wherever a nose like happened on crazy. Does it till I know, but I'm just like me when I have to get past the bigger questions which one who did it, what were who made the car. Can I tell my wife first knollys noise, I tell my wife first when she reads this online she's gonna be so mad at me. Did you were you able to yeah? I think she knew it was happening, but you don't have been times where things have been announced and it's like a demonstration. I thought, but it was yesterday like usually that's how you find out. You lost your job in this town like they. Don't they don't tell you directly, it's like some guy. You just run into I heard he heard the news like wife now, even now, you're part of every europe. You still are there in the writers room, doing the thing yeah yeah yeah, you had writer. None of the latter is no sky. Example. Is the shore honour on walking dead, David works? the short on further walking dead chris plaque

the shore runner on outcast and I just take all the credit via your consultant I'm an executive producer, but and I'm also in the room hands on right. You know yeah yeah. That guy would never do that. Do you say things like that? I don't think he should Not oddly enough, I'm usually the guy. That's like if kill him, it'll, be crazy and I like but nice real popular comics anyway, and I'm like yeah people won't expect it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Yeah now defined you're too busy to to be a the family man. No, no, I mean I yeah, that's that's. You know it's this number, priority. You know. Is it my I am I gotta bided explain he went on to your work, will take up exactly the amount of time you allow it to, and so can you drawing like three comments at the time? Yes, aircars, good guy and I was like how do you do it and he was like I sit down at

it. I am, and I leave my desk at five and if I don't get it done before, I leave my desk at five. I I dont get it done, and I know that, and so I have to get it done. and I was like okay, so we honored the hours and he made for yourself yeah and he and he said he said if you do that in the first month your schedules just going to be fucked but you'll, eventually, like figure out How do you know? I never united surf the internet right here. I sit down in its wake. I gotta do this phone calls. You dues, podcast here things like that and right in, and I worked six by six clock. well with the kids with the kids, but at eight every now and then you know if I got some script, that's not done or something angle, I'll do a little bit of work from you know the after the kids go to bed and write a little bit before I go to bed, but you don't get lost in the work. No, no, I mean It's your. I guess I love my word. We also have you gotta get to do it, but it's really not important. Well sure,

a good way to look at it. I think my main goal is when my children are dolt two roles I want my eye. And not reassuring when they else. I want to not be blind to the fact that my kids a shitty if their shitty, you know, you're, not gonna be one of those parents, like my son, such great guy. He has no no he's explain this dead animal Oh no, it's actually a thing. You would see my the animal was sick. Wasn't his phone, here's a mercy thing, smartly thing Do you know that our eyes and ears of what you find my movies have your parents feel about it. All you know they I guess you know value my dad. I love him here. Has a movie go on like this? mean the tv show, whatever whatever other globally interested, but, like

for now I know not young gives a shit right right they now. I guess it's not a movie day, whatever they give it's better to mess with eight other cyanide. I've been theirs. There's always something a certain type of peril, minimize a little bit like. Where was that little thing you get there? thing is not really a job me away. the thing that have to use your hands for with words, happy when you were doing comics well. My me like when you It was when you said. Look come do uncommon. Oh my. My father was a spy business owners are successful and do you know always instilled in me like work ethic, all that kind of stuff and Well, when I told him to go, I want to do comics from Dave's. The cat just makes you get a fall by plane and I knew that my parents would be really worried about me and so I just didn't, tell him ok like I quit my day job and I started doing comics and I struggled for quite a bit, but in full

it also it was very kentucky yeah, it's very easy for me to Lidl and lied. Yes, yes, and so I told him I still worked at the day, job and and then at one point my mother called and and called my you know my work and then she called me up and she was like they just told me that you haven't worked there every year, what happened You're fired, like you, never told me like what's goin on and I was like J w p s. Sorry, Yeah, I just didn't, want I didn't want like them, do I will struggle our struggle. Really bad. You know I didn't want them to. You know, be about me, and I want them to be telling me not to do. Where can I knew that I was gonna, give it a go and in trying to mean that you can makes earlier, as praise of vines is a little bit. There is always there is a shortfall a lot of times

when I stopped working a day. Job couldn't loans from them, and so what I started doing was I put the printing bill for the comic book on credit card right and then I would live off the money that the distributor repay me yeah. That should have gone we pay off the credit card just because I didn't have a day job and I had to be able to make mortgage and all that stuff, and so there was a time when I was a it was like thirty is six thousand dollars in debt and I was making like fifty dollars a year for Kevin owen, and I I I don't talk about this a lot, but I would lay in the floor and shake because I would get. I had like seventeen credit cards. You know I had one at five hundred dollars on one that a five thousand dollars on the head.

Five hundred dollars on it, and I and I had to pay the minimum payments on seventeen credit cards and was like yeah. I am not paying these balances down right after make. Fi was like five or six or as like five, six hundred dollars a month just to maybe it wasn't that much, I don't remember the actual name, but whatever it was, it was like, like everything I was doing, went to that just so they wouldn't come after me, and I was like I'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life I am never going to pay this off my four hundred dollars a month or whatever cease to shake literally out of terror. Yeah I would just lay out just be like I can't do anymore I just gotta, relax and just lay on the floor and I'd be like well off in order to do whatever you do you fucked up your life treatment? What are you doing? What are you doing while ago and and it's horrible. It's horrible I've told people like I'm glad it worked out yeah. I know if I had it to oliver again, I wouldn't do it at work

last week, people ass when, when you are right, when you success, whether I could how'd you do it's like, I don't know it was a great little clue stupid. Now, there's no system! You can't tell I do what I do he's right. They may not work now, so it did. It finally worked those girls marvel right, you know, but you're, not less that evil corporation after it was after walking dead. Then you still have those debts also No actually, a buddy of mine, got the human licence and measure the universe, those educators, meares and so He started pay means of that. I am income and soil at least wasn't adding to the debt and then of robert. I felt hired me to do a couple, a youngblood books and he paid so that kept me from being homeless right for a little bit and then

so I mean marvel actually hired me to do this a sleepwalker book and they had this program called epic comics and they basically realized that they could go to indie creators that were producing books on a budget and they could give them a microscopic budget for them. That would be a massive budget for us right, and so they came to me and they were like we'll give you five thousand dollars an issue to get a book. Written colored, ink, lettered, all that stuff and normally bottom of the barrel, marvel booking at eight nine grand, maybe ten fifteen right, you know, and so, and so I can totally do that. I can pay myself such in a box, and this guy, you know, there's different scales for things that people will do in indie, comics and- and so I got that book going produced couple issues and they said this is guaranteed six issues as great a foot in the door or at six hundred comics xos him after he turned in the first issue, and I turned in script,

such a third issue. They got adrian, they really were shut down the project really sorry christmas, like two or three weeks before it's december here. I'd have kids or anything else. That said, it's not like. I had to go to them and be like no no toys this year, yeah, but but I was just I was wrecked and and then there were like scripts for two and three that wage do If you are worried, will give you a kill fee for those two hundred bucks but like we can't like pay you for scripts, we're not going to publish well sure, sorry, kid yeah, that's like the photo or video welcome to yeah, and so I was just on the brink of collapse and then

I you know how to in marble, and so then they hired me and gave me an exclusive contract that give me a you know, set paycheck and that allowed me to pay down the debt a little bit, but that was happening at a time when walking dead success was ramping up. So so you know I had a steady check for marble and then checks from like walking dead invincible as those books became more popular. Those were your own label and they and the income from those actually exceeded it is making a marble rife, and so I was able to pay off it it very quickly, just through whatever leave that. Well, I can't I can't even get us it was it was. It was good, in kirkland. Tell me what you do to celebrate. I urged worked more. I guess it's well shit man, congratulations on all of it. Thanking her for survival. It in transcending at an end and destroying our culture was correct?

Thank you bring lies, definitely have a lot of fun with it. So I appreciate the support from everybody that sell you know katrin reading whatever so and now I got a bunch of reading and it was great talking to you, though, a lot of fun man like robber, kirkland, good guy learned about comics learned about a lot of stuff? Great story. Just do had a dream manifested it pod dot. Com is the point you can get on the mailing list. We can look at the new merged, all the posters. I have learned from the tour up there. You can get the draftsman poster at that was just here import when they die. Imagine probably sell out, but you can get them over a drop one design, which is grappling dot com. The hour APL. I am dot com yeah. I signed a blunt for drop. One he's got a few on the side of you

And get them their pre astoundingly beautiful posters, but restaurant, my site. The book deal ten our hard back cover a marriage that signed that is on the site. So there was a lot of stuff going on the site, but just to go check it out or stuff there, and I love you mentioned I do thank you for listening