« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 620 - Vince Gilligan

2015-07-15 | 🔗
Breaking Bad creator Vince Gilligan has a reputation as one of the nicest showrunners in Hollywood. It's a deserved reputation based on this incredibly friendly conversation in the garage with Marc. They talk about Albuquerque, the South, used books, film vs video, George Lucas, The X-Files, meeting Bryan Cranston and spinning off Saul Goodman.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The alright. Let's do this: how are you what the fucker is, what the butt buddies, what the fuck and here's, what the boxers? What the fuck canadians this is marked marin. That's me dimension scale. Again. on the show today, vince gilligan decree. You're breaking bad and better casal breaking bad. Arguably, the best in television, show ever I've never and so compelled engaged, tv show in my life. I miss it shows I'm, mr sopranos. I miss the wire and breaking bad now Bob and watching better call Saul, witches, evinces new show, which is also amazing, bob odin It is doing a incredible job in in the acting department, as is Michael machine and the supporting cast, but
but yet that ideas- a genius in my mind- and I was nervous to talk to my not I Didn'T- do any real research around how we talk to her what he looked like necessarily before he came over and I was I was nervous like I was nervous when I met Paul Thomas Anderson, these guys in my mind or are fucking geniuses, and I thought he'd be some dark wizard, but just a pleasant smart. A light. Southern dude had a great conversation I love meeting people who I think of wizards and they're and they're they're they're humble in human and in just a great, so vince gilligan. That's today happen momentarily Ok, also before I forget tonight, on marin on I see me and my old friend, sam cedar, co, star I made good on it right. Mean sam go way back. There is a very exciting tents. Aggravated committee inasmuch ass. A very fine show. Sam comes
to help me with the patent troll problem and that's that's and then it just gets kooky. It's funny. funny to see us together had a great time. That's at ten o clock tonight and I see a mean sampson and the new marin, okay, Dave Anthony's air two or a dave anthony's there. He he'll be there. Okay, he's he's there being creepy. Alright, so I'd, I just need to say that, because sometimes I forget to plug my own shit, Ok done. Our somebody asked for me, do I m to give you a cat update? I forget that there is ongoing narratives. In my life tat, I just weave hanging. And I do have some updates. I do have some updates on the cats. monkey I last night see This is really when you know that you're doing entrenched in the cats in the cat world in cat life
I was at last night. Sarah was over the painter to go to sweep and in southern smells, and I thought you know sadly- for a moment, I thought it might be my balls because I hadn't showered in a couple days and I m sorry it's too much information, but you guys, guinea. You pick up a you, sweat a. I taught out my armpit age. I just thought it was me. How is that better? Can we just put it that way and then I'd eaten some severe ha, so it was a bad combination. So I I thought mixture of the the the fish in the balls- and you know my swaggering. I I blame myself now, there's been a cat pee smell problem in the house in my bedroom for a while and I just track attracted- I knew was by the but I do know if muggy was being on the hamper round the hamper. But last night became very clear that day that monkey was peeing on the curtains, somehow skills
we in the corner of the room and on the curtains now this might be because scared, he cat the wild barrel be shitting impeding under my house right under my address so monkeys picking up that smell decide that's good place to go casually cats. They they started. That's it when you don't feel well, but monkeys never seemed better eating. He's got energies excited he's very warm he's nice cat by just paying him bedroom I've been sleeping in a room, it's mozart. Cap is for months and Sarah like eight or nine cats that she feeds. She asked it's in your wife. There are wild most of em, but but we're just white were those people by wither way. We contracted it, wasn't bothersome enough for us to fucking track it and then there was this other smell, which I assumed to me, and I woke up at five in the morning obsessed. I did get rid of the curtains, I cleaned down everything I got to go buy some of that. You know don't pee here spray, but then I found some fucking cat shit fresh, fresh catch, yet dine the hamper
I blame myself I mean. Could I have passed? We smell like in a month's worth of cat urine and a fresh catch it like I blame eyeballs. For that, that's ridiculous! I mean I know that human smell, but none the less, some heavy cleaning went down. Some curtains had to go, the hampers gotta go. I do some cleaning nor I gotta figure out. What's going on, I dont know I do. I do I think that window where the hamper is and that area is the only place at monkey, sees the cats outside and that's a fine transition to the cats outside scaredy cat, the striped cat, the wild cat. the face was ripped up at one point in time, but is survived about a decade. Now I've been feeding this cat he's fine he's around he's fat, it's nice when the wildcats get fat and big head, the big black out with the huge balls he still around still gotta, can we get a trap him and get him fix. God knows what he's done out there with the ladys. He comes round. He doesn't to know when to history me out, like you see, is one the only
as I I've ever met that hisses. When he's happy to see you it's ok, it's a confusing thing is nuts. He hisses he meows, but he's excited he's around he looks lean said is huge. Balls are huge frame tight, nice cat, though, somebody's cat who is neglected, deaf black cat, the hero, the mystic, the true survivor? The warrior back around. I see him hanging out. I watched him approached the bowl last night than for those. You were just listening that show that a relationship with this cat on and off for a few years Now it's a wildcat can't hear a fuckin thing. Nothing death as fuck waves out there among coyotes and other wild cats and disappears for months at a time When I think he's gone he's dead, how could he not be he's death boom very, is on the deck clean and himself takes a lab room to approach the ball because gotta fight, skunks, here's one
maybe skunk left of a skunk glitter out there. That seems to be lingering. He was abandoned this is his neighbor had without on the item. I have skunks work. Also aside, note thank you for all the air, the information about birds about those junkie, birds, the hijacking, my humming bird theater, I believe we're going with hooded oral. the emails and tweets with pictures seems an ornithologist is that what they are is that the right one, the birds ornithologists is at it I'm going to go there, cause I'm not going to google anything. I hope that's right and that's not like some sort of specific type of cancer. who did oral. I think you're right, hooded, oreo, bad word for me, with my rolling ls and my inability to say rs or ss Hsu c to a for speech. Therapy vince gilligan, just a few minutes- and I do want to share something with you. Can I
can. I share something with you. I don't know when one becomes funny. I know that I was pretty funny and eruptive in school, but I don't like I don't know if I was always funny you know. I know I was a somewhat sensitive kid. I know he was a gregarious kid precocious. annoying to adults, but my father their sister linda my aunt linda, who I don't see, that side of the family much they live down the jersey shore and and I'm not that in touch with them, which is sad, but it's my fault. They came to see me at at the red bank shown jersey and she sent me a couple emails afterwards and I had to talk to an honor, I mean you know I love them, they're, my cousins and my aunt, but I just don't. I don't see him, I'm detached I'm not as connected to family, as some other people are, or perhaps that I should be, but but she shared these two these two stories that I will share with you. This is very old material. This very mark marin material on these are these are emails from ireland
a dear mark, do you remember when my parents lived in a two family house in jersey, city thou? Do my grandparents, obviously the organ family lived upstairs and we could hear them going up and down the stairs you are about and you would ask what the noise was. Your grandma grandpa would say it's the organs. one day, the organs stop. you say hello when you were introduced, you exclaimed joyfully the organs. Are people a smile, and I remember that story. You never know what kid thanking love, Linda The organs are people solid tag, solid tag. I told her. I love that story, so she sent me another one. Dear mark. Do you also remember your grandma grandpa buying you take us to the circus in new york every year. You're scared of the clowns and one day you ask them if they loved you, they said that they certainly did. Then you ask them there
Why do you keep taking me to the circus boom? Yours and we ll level little guy solid tags. Man saw a you know what I had I known We'll just started. Writing comedy then had I known very proud of their stories and am glad that the she sent them along I didn't know I was afraid of clowns. I think that when we afraid of clowns from far away clouds are ok, bye, it's. When you see them up close and you can see the person inside the make up, I can can just see the human eyes and some of the wrinkles under the clown make up. You have just it whatever sad wife Let them behind that makeup. Or are you assume that? But it's what really is the fundamental we frightening thing about clowns is that when they get close enough, that you can see the whites of their eyes and the human heart behind the clown make up, that's terrifying
again can't say enough about this guy huge fan of his work And- and I was just a thrilled that he was such a sweet, dude and very practical- and very collaborative and willing to give your other people credit it just a an amazing guy, so it's talk to vince gilligan. Do spend a lot of time. My home town, I grew up in albuquerque. Yes, you do Actually, I did, and you went to high school in hi, when I and we shot a really memorable break you may have seen in ireland I we did. We did, which one I've seen all the breaking bad run on a versa. There was a scene at the beginning of season three and in it walt is in his high school. He still teaching there and it's it's in the gym,
and is full of people in the gym. That was the gym. Yeah. That's why I didn't recognize it. I don't think I ever set foot in there. Oh my I think. Maybe I went to one assembly, certainly sporting in my area. Bypassed me neither! But, but it's really bizarre to me, because I had cranston in here- and it was one of the biggest regrets of my career as an interviewer that I was so nervous, and I was so wanting to talk walter wider thing for most of the universe, ideas I thought my mind but for some reason, once we got talking ebay's intimidating to me, which he shouldn't because he's a very polite and we got yes, we guy, as I did mention albuquerque once oh yeah yeah. I knew he had a house there and I get it. I grew up there. We could have bonded personally blew it well, let's to go back to two like who you are because I am a huge fan of breaking battlement, I'm a huge of better.
outside of our bob and I've known him for years right and the breaking bad. When those experiences you have, I guess what those things you turn people onto it like you would turn them onto math. If you are in the map- and you know it- we may have watched raking bad. What the fuck do I try it man, gotta fucking, try it thank you and thank you for not going to get out like proselytizing for for sermon. Anybody who starts gets through anyone who watches two or three episodes of that and doesn't get hooked by gao need to talk to that. Guy I love it but like I did, but I can say the same about the x files parade nook and I know you come from the experts. I gotta know why I never watched it because I'm a fan of the workers, accuracy is more than just sci, fi sure sure, but I just never I never locked in. I guess I could never watched a couple. You know it to sometimes timing counts for a lot too. Sometimes you you come to something at a point in your life and you're into it.
And you might not have been into it a little bit earlier right later, or maybe it's just not your thing. But what now? How did you where'd you grow up? I grew up in Virginia. I was born in richmond and then I live for big chunk of my former, and in a little town called farmville, which is sixty five miles west of richmond. Really in a really it's it's, it might well be nay mayberry right relay farmville reality I was. I am now a forty eight hour rights are, are you idea, siblings, brother, Patrick, my brother is the older he's four years younger, the younger, so you're, the oldest I'm, the oldest of all of the two of us it was. It was on you yeah it'd, be the guy to be the leader where'd. You lead that kid. I had let him into a very different life than that I didn't later married. He was his own boss, he's a he's, a wonderful brother, but we're very different. What was his He always is to a great guy is now father and I am not a father so now, for the first time at at age, like issues that age,
he sent me out on me. I became an uncle for the first time. I was exciting. My brother a pad and is lovely wife me who have a little daughter named maya and she is so cute, it's it's so wonderful spending time with the three of them and with her and you got that's nice and they got a now. They did it. So you can go have time with the kid and leave yeah. It's really been a grandpa or so oil on linen or your folks. Dora. Both my folks are still around they're back in virginia still and there it. So. I'm lucky to have them around generations in virginia like that, you go back in virginia or you don't really get some. You know what I you know Wonder I see those commercials for like answers right. I ha must have you ever do you do that? You now know cause, I don't know, do how far like my no might, the jewish thing you only one. new generations back and then you're in russia, poland, healthcare or germany, united states in eastern europe. We, I m kind of curious. I am too I I am too, but I haven't I haven't. I should gone and done it and I like, if my mom
my especially my mom, if she's lavoisier, when she was an additional say you, you know You know you know know. We know you know all this, and I may I know my father here by our new my father s, grandfather, but but you go and backs the many generations. I I don't. I don't know about that, but I the south is right. The south, the liking, I'm and have become more fun, connected with this area. Like ice the sort of snotty about this a little condescending, but the more I go there out of all the places I visit in the in the country. It's the most interesting like it just Why do I say about a weird history? Whales, fearsome some bad, went down some good people who has a moral struggle every day in the south. yeah. What was it like growing up for you? There I mean. Did you feel that it was great? I I love. I love virginia law, my home state. I don't get back often enough now to get back once a year with the horses or anything I mean
whip around them and cows, mostly cows, cows and horses. It was called farmville and it was aptly named, but they weren't, none of them were were ours. We grew up in a little as a subdivision: oh yeah, how'd, you end up there. Well, my mom was from Virginia been farmville like it seemed like we as we were in richmond. My dad met my mom in richmond and he was from syracuse new york. So my dad's side of the yankees from yeah upstate and the first thing you know my they moved my dad moved or my dad's might my grandparents on my dad to they move to richmond in, like nineteen, fifty seven, fifty six, fifty seven and they got there because they they wanted. My
the father Vincent partly named after a partly for well by george benson gilligan Jr, so my dad is george junior, but my grandfather had worked at a at a at a gm subdivision making parts making car parts and he wanted to be his own boss, and I had the opportunity in the late fifties to buy a use, store in rain virginia, which he had never visited before so in the late fifties he bought this through, It was the back of an ad in a book dealer magazine. That was the big idea. It was a big idea and he was a wonderful. He was wonderful at it and he was his own boss until he passed away from the late fifties till he passed away in the late eighties. He kept in a used book yeah enrichment and the first thing they did and Anne, and so they moody and my grandmother, his wife, jean they
moved and my dad went with him. My dad was about seventeen or eighteen and was, I think, just about to go into the marine corps, but they moved to richmond from syracuse. In the first thing they did was put a big better flag up in the window, the new bookstore, because not as I believe, the matter in them, because they were afraid. You know this. This must be a town were that will be helpful,
the writer them were from up north. Yet we just want to know that we want to sell some books. Were that carpetbaggers want you to know that, so how long did that stay in the window, not too long because they they realized most folks were like whatever man I think most clubs you'd be like looking at a bookstore. Is that yeah right? Well, it was richmond was, was different in the late fifties. Was it yeah? I mean I I from what I hear I was not around myself, so we had the used bookstore for thirty years, at least from about what was it called. People probably knew it richmond bookshop and it's still there and the old sign is still up and was the character. Do people know him like you run into people were like. I know that bookstore. He was very well respected by the the folks who knew him. He was a wonderful guy. He wasn't really a character per se. I guess I mean he was a colourful and in our character redress, but he was a wonderful bedrock kind of a guy. Did you have experiences net store. Oh yeah, I mean I well. I think you gave me a great love. A reading
my brother and I you know, grown up and visiting ravening if we are being driven in for farmville and a half drive and then stay in the weekends, with my grandparents in enrichment and visiting the bookstore, and My grandfather never really had to dimes rubagub because even make a lot of money, but he made a live and rightly made eleven doing. This Vienna lie like good books. He had wonderful books and I again in the science fiction, and I got it in his bookstore in his book- store any was great because he die? We would just my brother, Patrick and I would go round and pile of books and say grant because we have a common granby, araby, grammy grandpa this would ensure sure atlanta only occasionally it be some really expensive book any say. Well, you know, haven't you just read that here but had taken it anyway, it was wonderful, he was so generous and and we gotta love Patrick and I both got lover rating for man and then and he had a relationship with the grandfather yeah. How wonderful? What was someone at first ass, a safe, I was, you think,
books except not cool guy- that everybody makes movies about now. What would we mean really rich? That was what does it really really worrying all the harm comic books, so that must be the that these are the seeds of breaking that rich reggie. pretty was born rich and after he had to work for a leg, walter, white, you you I'd read. You re was conflicted about being rich when we first start is sort of realise that you know ye because I too gravitate towards and even I get how you ve got the job I on x files, but you must have some sensors inspection the iron. You must have the love love for that kind of absence. imagination that sort of rooted in in. humanness yeah no definitely I mean I grew up loving re bribery and isaac asimov and those down those who, like classic used, Did you get those at the store? I absolutely read my first for free.
herbert and elsa it there. I mean I read I am not. I did not read as as deeply I read very. brought over very broadly, very shallow lee shower easier, but dinah, but but I But you know what, when I started on x files, I mean I'd written. I was writing for the movies before that, and I was really I consider myself a comedy writer. I'd read comedy I consider myself, a writer of comedic movies. I I believe- and I from early on that wall. Or and and jesse, were a comedy team. They were the you know what they are sort of the post, modern, a laurel and hardy worked. There was definitely that I thought that element was definitely there and I I don't know we can talk about it way in bit about yeah. How much of that sort of plan but yeah there were your walter white as it was a classic straight man, yeah yeah to Jessie, yeah and there's definitely funny shit in there.
I mean there's stuff, that's horrible, but it was. It was one of those weird lessons. I think that I might have worn by watching breaking bad is that there is when you, you know, as flying as danny trio's head on a tortoise might be right fucking hilarious, I mean it's on some weird level: oh yeah. No, we made the show was funny as we could possibly make it, and funny, of course, as we both well know, is in the eye the beholder, but but a lot of stuff. That made us laugh hysterically in the room I didn't necessarily make everybody laugh who was watching but but a lot of stuff. It is laugh and an we tried to make it as funny as as we could, because we always figured if this thing is just a downer. If it's just about a guide, dinah cancer unease cookin his nasty drug and make it None of that it it's just there you just going to want to open a vein watching the site just going to be like. Oh, this is not tightening the I want to laugh at you got eleven. Your drama with human:
what comedy's years as a you know, that's the only way you get through life. You've got eleven the real drama, liver and buffer disappointment that yeah! That's that's! That's what life is suffering just me. Yes, exactly we felt that away from the first, the firms from the grid go on. Broad break bad. I just figured this show. Has it has a possibility? so relentlessly heavy and dreary the comedy with strong getting good, I'm blind, because even like you, even the characters that were the most widening in a way we're work outside of gas. But I too is kind of a clown view in a way As long as you're not therefore look at your head off. Yea sees no, I know he's finally from a distance even even in, and saw me to go he's kind of half a moron. You know like in their right at that moment worries I wouldn't do younger than a smart guy got a story to tell em by
keep going back so what started the interest in in movies like how? How old were you like? What kind of kimberley in high school he dungeons, dragons, yeah yeah, played dungeons and dragons? I was just a loser who didn't go to the prom? I dunno I dunno. If that's loser anymore, I think that is the backstory. That's a proud backstory! Now it's been, I was born too soon. Kids of to believe me, man was that I was being a loser. News nerds run the world now that sadness has transcended to like you, a guy who comes from dungeons and dragons, and an isaac, asthma, books and sitting alone reading in your grandpas books, doria, creative minds. One was grady television theories ever won. The best will be what you did. Ro richie, which was a gritty comic book with a day. If I did I never I never they dead the density, dragging thing. I read some richie rich. There did you, I mean I may be a little bit casper, infernally ghost. Why me,
were you out when you were young and seventeen no kidding yeah, that was that was eight eight or ten or route seven or eight, so you're hanging out with the dungeon masters and yes and those kids playing chess. I met now and I did not. I was not smart, I'm still, I'm not smart enough or chess. Although a tom schnauzer one of our writer producers has two or three chessboard going in the in the office real and all the other, not all of them, but are my assistant jen and my former system is now one of my writers, gordon these folks play chess and in has multiple games, go on his legs Bobby fisheries, that guy yeah. I wish I could do that with my brain. I want to make that board over every time a walk past, I think you should
you're the boss, take some liberty. I hear you too nicer guy in the writers room, yeah he's trying to lose your shit about data, lose my shit a little harmon or a milch yeah. You need your rite of passage. He sends some riders crying yeah exactly they'll. Do that yeah! Do it tomorrow, fuck it all out offensive trying to ruin the whole thing you're right so, but but school did you play a band instrument now had a you know, my mom was wonderful, wonderful. I wish she kill me too. Jesus. I wish he had made me, take it is not on her, but I wish I wish someone had made me take lessons because I love music, but I am not I You know the editing room. I said this before at the end and bears manning room. That is its closest. I feel I'll ever get to being able to write music sheriff that rhythm of editing. His is- and I am I
I feel like in another lifetime. If I had had that, if I had learned to play some sort of instrument, I wouldn't have been wonderful at it. I wouldn't have been good enough an extra no intrinsically. It would have been good enough to perform primarily it could have given me a grounding that I could have written music, because I think I would have loved to have done that right. But I I think what like what you're saying is that you, because of the medium you've chosen, which is it film, really because I think that what you did with television, the tradition of of what has been happening- intelligent sopranos, deadwood in white that the finding the time, Any this revision to create your frame in an and take a certain amount of time to to create a dynamic things like you, that and also the way that sound works and breaking daddy. I think that with film you get to integrate all that here. Even if you do
guy it's like. You got a musician, you work with, or you can put right so sure so, you're still the guy. That goes. I can you give me more of that. Rebel, the angle trouble is you just traveller? Can you make that given more menacing bit of notes here, civilian area, we have this amazing composure day. Porter, who was on both shows argue bad behind also, and I always feel I was I'm am talking to a to brain surgeon. Like a kid you here instead of cut their right to respect this balance, that I don't have the language and I, but you know what what works he's a wonderful down earth guy and what works with him in and I must go you betcha or music. Super volume works of both those guys is to speak, and they taught me to speak in turn simply of emotion. What emotion are you trying to convey here with you in there in the picture. Instead of you now want to send for the first time,
la blogger? I want on a sharp here right away. I couldn't do that to save my life, but but with those guys, talk, emotion and that's good It works well, well, yeah, so you're near making music on some level you're making decisions close to music, as I will ever make, and it feels good to do it. Alright, so you're mad at your mom, because she didn't make you place, yesterday I didn't make or the boy piano or yeah. Yeah, alright, well, you'll just have to let that go and she's going to feel terrible now, but she maybe she'll call you and go. I start now. Vincent oh was she will. I met your exact, she will say no time the prison ready at. What's what stop and right and she's you'd be right now, european together not together now not together, they get divorced when I was ten and my brother was sick, saw back in nineteen. Seventy six they get along after that, though there they will they just I'm sure they were they just don't see much of each other. You did the right thing by you guys. You know it please,
and feel that way to time it yeah yeah. I think they did at what they did the right thing for each other and therefore it was the right thing for you saw your dad and needs in the air, and the good thing is still see. My dad still see my mom Jia workmen. Pat Benatar like it is still have a man Bulgaria, is that so the other family we have is a great guy and he's in Virginia. So it's one felt If I get to visit all now, it's good you're not going all out and one of the kids he brothers he mom and dad well, no actually, Patrick and and his wife mi HO, and my niece are out here they're down in garden grove. Also they all live here, yeah, which is which becomes less important to go veg very well! No, you know I love going back. I just only really you know it takes forever to get there. It's like cause, you you know, takes a flight to atlanta and then a flight to richmond, and it takes all day and on the little plane,
it depends sometimes sometimes yeah, but those are what yeah yeah I do. Sometimes it bother me. Sometimes they don't sometimes I'm like oh good. I can see the ground I feel like I'm in a car. Okay, I feel like I'm flying like I get that like there's. Sometimes I feel better to know. I don't like it when I'm on a plane and you just sort of all of a sudden you I I didn't. I forgot, I was flying until we hit this turbulence. Okay, yeah we're like oh okay, we're a mile in the air. I remember now we got cameras. Are you a nervous flyer? Do you not like? I can't afford to be cause? It's exhausting, but he innately like. I know the odds are in my favor, but there is the possibility, so I'm not nervous about I and the air I'm nervous about being surrounded by you're now going through tsh, take my shoes off and go all this stuff, and then you just never know who you're going to get sit next year and then the seats gets smaller every every month. You know what I'm going to tell you to someone. Tell you a secret. You know you're at a point in your life now where you can go ahead and get the first question. You know what I it it. It was
was not that long ago that I started doing now, because because because it's the it's it's the god, damn it's the principle. The thing it's like you say you you you say to yourself here. You know I got the money on a first class me ass, a class bright, and then you punch it up and the computer here like by its like eight fuck. times that much what it is it really worth is insane, how much more it is and believe me I know, and like I don't have a wife and gotten I don't get. I am not complaining. I don't have. I dunno I'll spend much money now like if I'm going all the way coast to coast. I'm like, let's see one I think about and in terms of a heck of a guy that can afford it as if we both come from a sort of like like I come from a comics background, so I am always right. I dunno when my money's going to go away, and from pretty much working class background, or is it just seems like an extravagance?
you know what it is. Only really is principle thing. I don't understand the pricing. The tiered prices are just rip you off yeah. Why do we ve gone far away from Argenta here here? I think we were, I think, we're good people this year. I this we're, I think, we're good. We know where you stand airline, it's sense of it, no birmingham bestia far him of it like it's like you, can get there half hour before, without whom freaking out s school, pre, nine, eleven type, yeah, that's how you can valet your car while they have yeah, that's right. They do. try twenty deva, who cares hours for three days for days. You remember prenatal, oh this is before this is like twenty thirty years ago. Remember you could get on the plane, your friend, the arrow stir of
get your tickets, they would say: they'd come on the intercom and say: okay, everybody who's not actually going to. You know going to jackson where they can not only walk you to gape and sit on the plane literally go on the plane, clean. Listening to this, who didn't live through, it are going to be like what you can get on the plane and at a certain point, the the why the tenant the column stirs the then sorry, I get on and she would say usually she and she was okay. Everybody has not gone to buffalo, get off it'll get off the plane. Now it was like it was such a gift. oak? I done planes when I was in high school. I love smoking on point. You have the back for the back to rose the on a plane, How could you imagine like what the fuck out What was the world than everything must smelled like cigarettes
I lit a cigarette on an airplane right now, it'd be like what is happening to air marshal. Just shoot you in the head, before the like, everyone was so acclimated to the smell. I guess every plane had and I had a sixth grade teacher in elementary school, wonderful, wonderful teacher, Mr Guthrie. I loved have great teacher here. He smoked a pipe in class and it smelled so good. ass. They would. They would take him away and just summarily shoot him against a wall. Now for doing that, we love it, it smelled good. Did you smoke now I downloaded as pipes do smell better cigarette cigarettes or nasty. He added prism pipes? I, like I, you know what I like. I smoke the occasional cigar yeah right. I liked that one times a year, nice yeah yeah, the good one but it's like it only cigars I have even with a flight of the occasional soda jet That's, but anyway
cigarette, so yeah they're bad. My brother, my mom, used to smoke and your ride would be in that little living room we had and they mostly smoking away. I didn't even notice and now it would It would mean that we have jointly with clear, but it was everywhere so arts are now you're. Your point ended and dragons you're, not smoking, not play any instrument. You written, we re brad, very nice, guys off. You know where it is the interest you know in where'd you, creativity, start. are you ready to film was hidden? I love do I just I had a rich imagination and its held me in pretty good stared I, but I was lucky, I loved. I love. I had a wonderful, our teacher, no Jackie wall the vast majority, much choose, a wonderful and her son is two time, oscar winning editor angus wall who won editing, KO cocoa editing,
It was a social network and was a growth dragon tattoo. Anyway. He cuts for sure he and his editing. The sky grew up with in this group in the town of farmville, which had like forty five hundred people in his mom was your teach and his mom was more is a wonderful guy. She was a wonderful teacher and we and I loved, I love drawing painting sculpting cheat she'd sort of so many some of the things we get to make little pewter sculptures, and we got here fire stuff in the kill rise she had and she was a wonderful teacher grass. Did you do any of that stuff? Why did some of that later? I went to a school with a wax and then you put it in the thing and then melt melted wax for us. I I made a pair of silver earrings that at a at a school called Interlochen, which was great or the jose that's in interlochen michigan near right, near traverse city. I went there one year it was ninth grade was and- and mrs wall. Help me get into that that was after elementary school. So what is it?
exchange programme. It was that it was a boardings, it still the existence of were excellent boarding school the eye, the national music cancer in the summer and then during the school months it sir interlock and arts academy, and What else did you do there again? Didn't they girls. What I would, moreover, warriors the list of what I didn't do as was was was was was, is longer and I had it, but you tried sculpting tried you drew dad dad did metal smithing did blacksmithing made some pottery painted stuff like that a visual art student, most of the kids there were were music and performance hard students so you're always had no way I can always was. I was I headed and thank god for mrs wall yeah yeah, but and sheep. No, but I always I just always was into that stuff, and I always that's what I was doing. Authorize school ban a nerd. I was writing scripts and I was making little for movies them. Yeah look,
The films are separate film. He made him, he had a super eight camera. I didn't have one as yet another wonderful thing about her as she loan me hers every summer. So I get to keep it for three months over the site. With the little reels like a little separate film yeah, then you are cutting into the editor cut it. She let me use the jet the janitor at the school. It was called the jp when campus school of origin didn't exist anymore. It was a great great school and that gent she let me use a janitors closet. He has an editing and she let me her editing machine and I went out cut the super fellowmen. It receives If the early films were those early, vince, gilligan films, I did the one knows. My magnum opus for elementary school was called space wreck haha and my brother pat starred in it. He is in a spaceship, which I had so much fun. Building here, fo Guang how to weigh it was a. It was a little a foot, long or less lesson of face facts, and I was I shot it against a piece of black fabric with
grains of salt glued on it for stars. It look like she has the game at calls and put a light source now, because I would have been too that would have been too smart doesn't look too good yeah! I had to do it. The hard harder and crappie are looking way, but I and my brothers and the spaceship and lands on a planet enemies. He finds the wreckage of a ship unease check it out and some weird space slime has eaten through this other ship and made a crash so we asked to take off in a hurry to avoid it. But then you see dont downtown and the bottom of the ship as it lifts off their slime all over the eyes and travel gaze at them. That's it yeah that was at this pretty
if it doesn't work out for that guy who's, pretty ambitious for a super, a film. If you saw it, you wouldn't think so. He decided that you had the capacity to to go to another planet. Yeah, that's true on film gilroy worry we're we're doing full on sci fi. That's true, yeah, that's true, and what were some of the other ones? You remember, how was it made some little made, something with a little stop motion gremlin who was given trouble to some guy stuff, like that, I was called grid one all good name yet getting before. As I said before, gremlins also, maybe you should maybe I should include those bass yeah Joe Dante, or about that. Whoever wrote that there was always yeah. That first grandma's movie is good. He has the coolest office, as I recall at a meeting with him years ago. He adds I could have hung around that office for days, cause really filled with props from his movies and other famous movies yeah awesome
office. Godiva guy yeah directive so So you do these different schools you're in the arts, and when did you sort of realize it was film it was going to. I just I love movies. My dad George vainer. He would wake me up. This is way before vs tat. Obviously way before and all that did the light. we'd, be on it. Two in the morning he wake me up in his pee. Come up to wake up. You got to watch. You got to watch this. We got to watch bad day at black rock. really was that us great moaning and watch it spencer, traces as one arm guy and he just come from the war and he's a watch on each optus, kindness wrote to scan immodest boardman idea. He just wanted watch em chapter scanned, the throat it's great, is that kind of thing so was a regular occurrence where he'd wake you up and the one probably only a couple of times, but I have such fond memory of that and he he turned me onto these great movies. Like what other ones, what else westerns, oh god, yeah
austrians you now the spaghetti. Westerns John, for what turns the searchers searchers rheinart, as I realise that I can't write them their shots, that you got oh yeah in albuquerque outside albuquerque, see you thinking oh yeah, oh yeah, that it it dawned on me when I directed the pilot in bad idea I was I was. I was rip off. We afraid can a bit from the french connection, which is one of my favorite movies apart, the t the steady at, but Nonetheless, handheld camera fridge connection shot. With this, the cinema verity the sort of news real raw, way of it's as, if is if someone's running around following popeye doyle right and he doesn't have time to set up a tripod, so everything has to be handheld right, but it's not this caffeinated handheld it's moving artificially it's it's someone whole
the cameras steady as a humanly can, but there still breathing to it than you did. I was I was written off freak in there and anna was doing that because what I was doing, the pilot and the same, or we see him naked, whereas you throughout the whole, the throughout the whole series. Really that you do. I get that that state. You are aware that euro I was ass, our second a freak, an infringement and where do you know where you are and that he did that just one in a movie hemming just do you when you watch it, I've seen it a bunch of times as one of my favorites, but when you watch french connection, you sort of notice at its. How actually again recently holds out man awaits a great movie and it, and if you know what it feels like it could have been made today in all its Are those gonna move here? It's great, but I pointed when I wrote the pilot for breaking bad. I was thinking of california. Second shooting it here here in california, and one of the luckiest happened stances aside from getting the yes from sony and amc in the place was when the sony guy said. What do you think about shooting at?
California, what do you think about shooting albuquerque new mexico, and I said why and they said because, honestly, because new mexico has this wonderful ray hate this tax and stuff, and they got this. Did you use the studios out there way yeah? We should accuse studios right near the airport and they were they're great too, but they said You will have more money at your disposal that you can put on film I said I thought about it and they said, and you can still make California just put calphurnia licence voice on the cars and I said now that we will do it but will make an albuquerque, because unfortunately, there is a mass problem everywhere, preserve all the fittest: ass, a great landscape and an so. This is what I'm hand here. It was such a wonderful stroke of good fortune among many others, because direct the pilot, like a say, a thing of the french connection, but I'm looking around half way through the pilot sand. This looks like a western uses, a western landscape. I can think of John forward. I confess a surgical leoni, I think over, but
occur in all these wonderful said, howard hawks all the guys do, these wonderful westerns I can. We can make this a modern western and that's exact, what we did and we got to a point, michelle Maclaren, who was our producer director and directed more episodes of of breaking bad than anyone else. She and I would show we would show the first fifteen minutes of once upon a time in the west to all incoming directors ia and say we were kind of lookin for this kind of look. You do, Oh yeah, we did it. We were very much going for a western at that point whereby what, right at the beginning. We I mean you have real, I guess what I'm saying our second more of like us. They met with a more afraid can then and then and then realize in my god, look at these endless skies with his beautiful white puffy greyshot beautifully that way we added the we have amazing de peace were starting with John told dumb. Oscar winner shot the pilot, and then we had the we had
a low bosses, excellent dp first season and then Michael slovaks for for the remainder of syria, must have loved the opportunities tissues after they they did in and they gotta I mean started. Film was still not rare, like it is now, but we got. We shall film to verify five millimeter film, all wait till the end, a break in bad, and that was another. Now that's fading opportunism all shot on film every bit of combating well, yes, the shows if we had a couple shots here and there we did with the law- Video cameras, justice? That's how you got the depth. I guess in that and the richness. What was the primary difference outside of being your beholden to to two nailing it a little more concern italy. Oh wait! Well, yeah! You don't have that the urine of that monitor. That shows you exactly which you can't just sort of like a video. We can shoot as much as we want it's venus. Not just the chip to card
when we started in two thousand seven video. I mean video hd video certainly existed. It didn't seem like as much of a of a good idea. At the time I have the red camera or they didn't have it like any of those high end dunno. If the red existed or not, but it you know guys, like Michael Mann, were shooting collateral and miami vice, like the the the movie on an hd, but it was still like a big deal like we're. Trying this out yeah. It was a little more maybe get my history wrong. Maybe it was a little less experimental that I recall, but I it never occurred to me, to do that and I always get negotiate unfair and I have to say to the point: did peter golden, I peters my partner and better call Saul, and he has a writer producer and breaking bad. We, we are a bit hard sick we're not shooting film on on better call saw were shooting on the red were issued on the red dragon and we felt in the red dragon looks great
it's one of many cameras there. Fifty five by solely, looks great but they're they're there, the alexa by airy, but we miss felt. Why you know it's, I don't have a great reason for each other. Then I miss the the history of it. I miss when I think of film, I think of all the wonderful movies that that made me interested in this medium. In the first place. They shall not film they it. It just has a romance to it. It has a lot of you what area has a look that that that video can't replicate. I hate to say this: being such a law we're film, as I am but we're we have. We had up. We took a year. We had a very three detailed test we took before medical, saw we shot. We are Robert our dp, on better call casal shop footage on thirty, nine millimeter film, the fifty five, the couple o the reds, like sir, and then we we have a blind tasted,
Does it work? He showed us all. This footage had an colored look similar when I showed us up all this footage and I figured if I could pay at the film of peter, I could pick out. The film would shoot film it yet even at the cost of hundred grand more episode, which is what they tell us, were saving more alaska, and I hate to say I couldn't take it out, could pick out the film say and I felt sorry for breaking all of this long went away saying when you say to me: what are you miss about film? I can't say that video is inferior. I can't even say that is fundamentally different at this point. In its look right, I can just say that I miss film Miss it add. I still want to be shooting on it, but I can't sit here and tell you why it's better, but do you miss it's it's You can feel it yet, palpable thing? I'd? Rather you know it's a course. You now know
cut on film for quite a while. They ve been near blowsy, just immediately transfer, where I mean we eyes cut and the added an end even on x. Files back in the mid nineties were cut on the added. So what's your shoe non film with that? We share film on that, but we cannot have it so a lot of guys you now that the guys that the real proponents of video, the guys like george Lucas to cover the one time ever, Madame had an interest in conversation with them. Someone told who I was and is broken ban here? That's me and then my boss, thirsty moscow, run sony television, He said: hey george, you know vets any who he knew is stirring up the shit when he said this, he said george an event, sir ventures breaking bad on film. And he turned around his heel and came back and said. Why would you do that and he started he was like you angry. Why would you shoot? I felt? Why would you here video so much better? Am
You say I I just listen because I like it was just cool talking to george Lucas being yelled at by george way. That was a good deal. I mean I'm, I'm overstating a little bit as pleasant about it. He wasn't, he wasn't angry, but he, but he was proselytizing to someone who who he could. He could pull the depths of ignorance and and show the light to her and and then but any said any end is right when he says that he says you know these guys say this. I say if you shooting photo if you're capturing photochemical, which has a say, film and are immediately transfer in the negative. The ones and zeros and cutting? I am finishing on it. What's the point, What's she doing that unless the production chain postproduction chain is photochemical from start to finish, and that's it
it's a good argument. Now I dont have good arguments to the georgian like it was a guy in a sector like it and as I can tell you is an indirect. I do know why, when it acts that threat of a trend who thou knows if it's better there's a certain grain crawl. I guess that that film, as because it's the grain, the grain and in video, is in this the grain as it were, the pixel locations or in the same spot, whether refrain, men and film. It's always crawling cause the grain, which is to say that the crystal structures is different and a different spot and every frames others ad know, these guys will say. Well, if you want that, look you can. You can even make that into the video. You know, and we could do that. You know and so yeah, but it's just not as you wanted to be howard, hawks yeah. I want to be william, friedkin, camera yeah, sure man or you know you know, queer check the gate. the game where we still say that you're a nice everytime. I say it because you'll see
Ok, that's great check the gate, and then I'm like. I still say that it's not nostalgia georgia, these movies and got you ever movies today and are going to school, fulfil yeah my mom, I can't leave her out. She was so a bit more my dad in fact was very supportive of may go and film school. My dad did say, as I recall what should have been russian right, what are you nervous? They blame on land. I'd be nervous for my kid. If I had one right, you know that's usually what it is like. I've never met like every. I'm apparent to as created kids ass. I might that they don't know any better they just as they did all the years. I know not gonna make a living do in that area here, winchester which share in and his world that its people do. What I do my dad was an insurance claims addressed her and my mom was a schoolteacher waiting teacher and they'll elementary school and
and they were they were both supportive. I don't mean to make it sound like he wasn't briefed by my mom was more supportive of me going to film school and went to n y. U onto a good one yeah, it was school? What the undergrad never never went past undergrad, but they re evaluate their weight with Tisch school to school, of the two schoolyard you, but you are shoot and cut I learned how to shoot and cut. I mean I'd been doing that in high school, but I learned a lot more than I already knew and I learned how to get to shoot sixteen millimeter for the first time and when I was there from eighty five to eighty nine that was still it was still film. Really glad it and miss out on that. Although we also had a video class was shot baited beta, two or whatever it was at the time, but we got to shoot fellow man that was good so? How'd you get the gig. What was the first gig college? Did you make movies in college? I mean made little bit mostly crude on other people's movie made little forgettable student films and what not my site-
did you do I'll say. If I did, I did something. Might my thesis film was called mine pays it was as they get it. Crime pays, you ever get online york anyways and it was at these three street clowns who get pissed off at this. My fur for us make an business from their core for the panhandle. So you work he wanted to do comedy. I did, I really did know and I thought of myself as a comedy person. I mean the syfy early on, but I I really thought of myself or when I got into my twenties as someone who wrote movies, groups and that's what I did. I wrote the first movies feature like movie scripts, I wrote were a comedic, I wrote us, call home fries eyes my thesis screenplay e n n Y you my failure and- and I was lucky enough to two salad- and again made a couple years later, as without withdrew, barrymore luke wilson, and
I remember that movie, it was a. I wrote in an eighty nine. I won a screenwriting contest in my home state of virginia with it and the judge. One of the judges of the contest was a guy named mark Johnson, who is just pretty train man, oh yeah, and he was an alumnus of Uva where the where the contest was held, and he contacted me after- and this was in late, eighty nine early. Ninety he said hey, I liked that script you wrote you have any others and I gotta dead at that point. The end and cut to look right to ninety eight. I guess who's about nine years later. He he produced it. again made and they shot down outside Austin Texas and it was drew barrymore luke, wilson, Jake busy. Catherine o hara here and it's two brothers who are really wrapped around their mothers finger and eight. They murder their step father at the behest of their mother, but comedy dora, the very door because the murdered opens with this murder. They
scare, their their stepfather death, they they fly a huge cobra further texas, sir internationally army national guard and they scare him to death by chase him around through the woods with his helicopter and shooting blanks at him, and so the cops find him dead, of a heart attack and and So it looks like the polar crime except that essential goddamn stooped. Pitching it now in hindsight, but the drew barrymore was in or was in her booth at the at the fast to mcdonald's at the fast food, not literally mcdonalds, but the fast food restaurant with her headset on and she overheard the whole thing We happen to be the woman who was having an affair with the with the with the older man who gets murdered and when he pitch it it sounds so. Ridiculously convoluted. That's how I know it lives. They do well, No it didn't do well, but it was well made. The actors were wonderful and the guy who directed at ganim dean Parisot did an excellent job any failing of this movie were strictly on the part of the screenwriter
hey here and I'm taking a because it slid. Indeed, I get you daily that winning the contest got me, you didn't get me airway, honestly. It me a career which I, which I fulfilled from Virginia. I move. For a man why you you're out of college. Flew back Virginia bought a house and had a girl, friend back in who's still my girlfriend back in virginia, and I love the idea of living in virginia and one and I could I could own a house here, you going to get married sooner. We've been together twenty five years, yeah we're still kicking the tires yeah we alright. Her name is Holly she's, wonderful, but you know if it ain't broke, don't fix it alright, but you know I was dating her and we were- and I bought a house and all that- and I was writing movie scripts. in virginia and then and then going to king gos and am photocopy them roman putnam, fedex, shipper and ship, and am after this before the internet now before I know,
is it emory sound johnson on the other end, he'd get em in the mail and he does. I think I sold the first two or three or he sold for me two or three the eye star here and the first wanna get made ashen sancho wilder napalm, which a guarantee of never heard of now that was that was Dennis. Quaid Deborah winner, anomalous, howard, damn two brothers to brother. There's. Again we asked like my blue parrot. or some other period. But two brothers who are in love with the same woman and they can start fires with their minds, know a good sci, fi action, sci fi, the fire yeah, a lot of fire wanna feel exactly, but that gets made and I saw I was living in virginia for the first five years of my career and and making money in hollywood- and I thought- and I was like I was- it was great. It was a good deal yeah, but the third, the writing. The movie writing started a dry up at that point, but five, Here's answered how many are made
at point thing started dry up, only one had been made, which is wilder napalm, Linda three. Okay, so the one came either one came later, yeah yeah movies. Have you had made that you've written total that with my name on them, three and then the third one band so wilder napalm home fries and the third one being hancock, which I, which I I sucked right and environments and no wrote wrote to the first rafter that did a great job and then I was sure hired the way it was the air was mammals smith. The air will smith, is a super. Her that's pretty good. it was a big granted near since your career he had given it operates, lesson can a homeless back supernumerary ionosphere, yet will smith is got great charisma, so he could make it do. You know you could write. A phone book ensure interesting sites are starts drew open your eyes? Tv
Well, yeah! You know what! Ah, yes, exactly because things are drawn up, I lost my writers. Go insurance, the worst when gone cobra marie, I was on pain, prevention, Well, like an idiot, I didn't even go on cobra, just sorta sorta, I just sort of said you know what I'm just going to going to take a risk you guys are all the dice stolen my early times, europe point, but I I wouldn't roller dice now this matter, but anyway in the show called the x files came along and ninety three a new update? I loved it as a fan. I didn't have anything to do it the first two years it was. I was just a fan, I loved it here and, ah I my agent margin of time she she retired since then, but she was made until she retired I am rhonda gomez and I said I was just talking to her a bit and talk and move business yeah. When am I coming out again- and I was in another meeting for me this and that and the other- and I said, bye This is new york only x files on maybe six months point, so you really are a watch. It is great,
She said. Well, as luck would have it, I'm related to the the creator of it. Bye, bye, marriage. I am related by marriage, some convoluted passion. She was related to Chris Carter's, wife, dory na and she's rod. I said I'll I'll get your meeting with him next time, you're out a movie business, if you like innocent and be great not to pitch to him, write us too, shake his hand, sure and tell him I love. You show that literally all I wanted to do and one thing lead to another and and they were really desperate for writers, that really is and to be a cause. I headed to twenty six episodes season to and they were they needed help, and I was just at the right place at the right time and Chris Carter gave me this job, which is the second greatest job of a red which was a close second there, which is and producing being a producer learning to produce learning the directive and learn to write really on. a vision for the x files so how's it was. It was like the best films
ever they paid me to be there and how many episodes his agenda too, I mean that the show did two hundred and two episodes over nine years. I was there for bad like six and a half. Mouser seven years out of the nine. I can't even tell you how many I I had a hand in I mean it. It I mean cause. I I I sort of my thing towards the was rewriting aha scripts and now and then writing my own originals, and I can't remember- remedy directed, he wrote erected to lose to just two. As far as directing, but the first time I ever got to direct professionally was through the x files on three about nyc. I let the kid do it yeah. Well, you know I I and, and chris was a great boss cause he let us all take on as much responsibility as we could handle, and I learned so my I can't say no. good about that job, and I wish I had a hand in the upcoming reboot that he's doing for fox are doing six new episodes, this coming here. Why don't you have a hand in it? I just I don't have that. I just don't have that. I'm an eye it.
when you ass. I was the and I and I had a wonderful lunch with Chris and I he said you want to be part of this and I said, and it just broke my heart. I said and I want to I just I got I got better call saul going. I am not a multitasker. I had him figure out how to do that. While it's hard, you know something's going to suffer some time, yeah yeah, unless he I dunno, how people do it so now? What will your multi ask her. Do you get this great podcast? You get your own show it's exhausting. I bet it is like you, don't know it kind of shreds your brain a little bit, and you know your responsibilities, I think, are are a little larger, but you know it maybe not in jail. You you're the boss. More idea by is it's: it's got its causes zogg, yet it and also you know you ever you. I have to be honest with you- have a a bigger budget.
Well yeah, but but budget. What his budget made budget is actually makes things easier, not harder. I mean, if you have less of a budget, you still gotta get it done. We want a little more time. The immediate time time is money. Money is important yeah, you know what I mean: that's what it really comes down to what it comes down to because like if I'm doing my show liking, I'm writing and I'm producing, and I'm in every scene there. So so we gotta have the writing done before we start shooting yeah and then it's like, then it's just like in it there and we're shooting two episodes and six days where they're like Jesus, it's crazy, dude holy crap, it's crazy How do you do? I don't either that's insane its oil and saying it's good for my head is acting here, while I guy why there with the promises they pull it off than ours like great. You can do it like that, we ve weaving gold yeah do three and seven, so you met grants and on the set of x files I met and we had. I wrote an episode was called drive and it was begun
in a season the hell- I don't even remember- but it was ours when we first moved the production from vancouver to california, and we had this, I had this part I had written where mulder agent mulder had to be stuck in a car with this crazy guys, chronic this, whose threatening to kill him, and the part was trick because he needed to be a real scary, bad ass guy near the end of the hour. He had to feel sorry for him when he died and we had all these scary actors come in. Who could pull off the scary right? They couldn't pull off the human part where he felt bad for him until and we were on we're scared because it will nervous because it was like only a few days for his gonna start shooting at brian crass and walks in- and it was just like this white list off of us as soon as he read really because he was so good. This is like ninety nine here and here I said mike that guy Susie walked out the door I set off the wardrobe. Only here: s a disguise, the guy and everybody in the world, while the other producers said yeah, he was the guy he's a guy- and I now
forgot him. He was wonderful in this and this role I had never. I forgotten that I and I sat, even as the shoot was progressing for that episode, and we will do you gotta understand. We worked with a lot of great actor Johanna x files, but I never had that eureka experience of saying I want to go with this guy again in the future. I know I'm just people I would want to work with the right, but I never have had experience of I've. Gotta find something for this particular guy right, like ahead with him here and and a half later after that absolute airs. I'm seeing commercials on fox for this new show called malcolm in the middle as soon as clean shaven guide and recognize, and I'm like that. Guy looks familiar, and then I realize, oh, my god, it's a guy for my drive, episode, x files and the
watching. I swear to god my first reaction. I think I said it out loud to know he was alone in the room. I said I didn't know he could be funny here, because all I knew emas was this dramatic guy yeah, this really intense, dramatic haze, a real actor he's written as how that's the first way. I know him because when, when we started pitching actress when I pitched in or there was only one actor as far as I was concerned pitched too amc. Who do you want to play? walter widest o Brien crashed in the folks said that I am see all they knew from was was smoke in the middle east and they said seriously. To their credit. Once I showed him the sex while up so they had the opposite, they are the opposite. Take on my head. They said when about this guy could be serious. You could be dramatic. I thought he could be funny but he's the whole package she could do at all. So weird, Where was the idea born? I mean because I think the fascinates me like, as we get into these, what you're doing now and and and breaking bad, was that you know that
landscape and the story scape of this this. seem simple on one level by the EU. The thing that me so compelling outside of the facts of the story. Was it you really know what the fuck was gonna happen every after every effort, like every episode like was this low before yet that agenda out this. Can you come up with this idea of what was the kernel of it? You know I just am sorry that as know it is it's cool, it's just. I always every time I do get asked I I wish I had a more satisfying answer. I don't know where the idea came from. I just know the minute it hit me. I remember distinctly. I was talking to my buddy, tom smiles. I had mentioned earlier, who I they met when we're It's going to n Y? U film school right and he wrote for a spin off series of the x files. We had called the lone gunman over a little bit for the x files, and this was like two thousand and four years after the x files ended, and he and I were talking on the phone sand.
A work. Lately, writing work. Now. How about you nothing in the offing, nothing in the pipeline What are we gonna? Do man we're we're not fit for? Anything else can work and he apropos enough He was just mentioning as something he had read the new york times about someone who put up who build a math lab anna in an apartment and made some kid sick and he said well. It would put a myth Are we do? around and make meth see that see the sights money here. He said that and their cars as ever tell the story. Every one hears us as well. How come I come here the creator of ring. I go but I as soon as he was pitching this. He was basically and why don't we do that? One we drive around america and cook meth, and he was joking, of course, but soon, as I said that I just said this rick, a moment where I was like because was thinking of a of a straight arrow guy doing this. I was picturing, may do it as straight arrow minute in the most bore board. Most bore I scared of
really sad, but but that would describe tom, and I especially ashes big room to me law abiding citizens. Why would I actually do that? ravenna trees me to think. Is there a situation in which I would actually do that and then I thought well, if I had, if I had to make money for my family, I might add, if I had a grounding in chemistry and had a real fight pressing actual myriad because I was the say, dying a cancer and it was like it hit like a thunderbolt. Oh and was the moment it hit now where it came from You know. I I in hindsight, hindsight, being twenty. I was about to turn forty years old, and I was- I was already thinking man. What kind of mid life crisis am. I gonna have a product to be a bad one says I never really so any wild owed to begin with oil. A crazy, I'm gonna go here and what
wait for me. I got to go crazy by proxy by writing this guy for four seventy six years. This guy walter white house Character like that. You know evolve, though, in the sense that, because like the one of them, the pivotal dynamics was his pride. And he is not is very personal resentment against. former fart india were all that stuff. All that all of that juicy midi centre of the character. came later, but this is the great thing about tv and I never get tired of talking about what a wonderfully color We have made in this area, as you well know, and anna as we both know. It's it's it's it's. For us this. I mean that the walter white of the pilot in bad, and that was the only time I ever worked on this character completely by myself.
Openness character and he was somewhat schematic somewhat mechanical and that he was Secondly, a good guy who, who We did the monty first family because he's dying of cancer. It was a simple, isn't right and there was a little bit in there about him being somewhat of a judge, I was of his of his brother and laws. We are now hale fellow well met, abilities and and somewhat resentful of those and and so there's a little bit of vat as as extra fuel as to why you cook math is de bourgh, whether a rather hank than right, yea agent, brother law. There is a little extra fuel for the engine remain respecting, but you have the backdrop of the I Didn'T- have him be a upright man. I didn't have him belonging away from here that one of the best moments and then once I had these wonderful writers around me and and and and this amazing act or playing walter white brand kristen, that call
habit of nature, the medium strata kick in and idea star percolating that I would have never had by myself in a million years and the one of the most important moments was the fourth episode that first season, because What I have come up with was was rather herbs schematic and was was gonna quickly, I can see the writing on the walls quivered quickly. Gonna win in danger of ok. Here say he makes forty thousand dollars this week, ricky makes sixty thousand dollars. Will in our two to suffer, wants a back. Maybe some steals is money. Okay, so now he's gonna make another. Eighty thousand at first command I now know moral struggle, no, no struggle gel nietzsche in supermarkets and anna in the fourth episode it dawned on us. As a group we set ourselves, is this enough for a guy just really love cook a math, but I gotta make the money, but but a crows stole my money and flew off and made a mess where the now gonna make more money in all.
schematic stuff. What's really at this guy's heart and we had this. This idea that only came from this collaborative base. That is this the tv storytelling process, which was so wonderful. We came up with this moment. Where heap we have these. We introduces two characters or rich and good cannon and and run their own company and They used to work with wald years ago and they find out is dying of cancer and they say, oh, my god. This is terrible. We're going to pay for your cancer treatment, we're going to give you a job with us. No strings attached with the view. While we care about you- and he says no, thank you and it goes off any cooks math again, but that was just a basics. Seven, you didn't have the back story, not now in any area he was responsible for the company success.
Yeah. We we had just and- and the truth is, if you watch, if you watch breaking bad again very closely, the thought that they, the fascinating sociological thing about the characters. These too rich characterise a war of aggression, and only if you watch the show very closely, they do nothing wrong and As for pretty much to a man and a woman to every viewers ever watch, breaking bad sees them is as villains has if the guys who were real, who pushed him who who's, who pushed him out, left him in the cold, stole his ideas stole his patents so that you never get you don't know why he left he. U get very clearly for him that he feels wronged and abuse right, but we, if you watch very closely- they never that's it be very easily. If you're open minded to it it, it can very easily be interpreted, as that was his hang up. Right. They didn't do anything wrong. There's is theirs.
map of so much later on the run of the series where he sits down with this woman and you realize they used to be called to date. Right, add something happened between them and and her interpretation of events is it is it is it is vastly different than his an we believe the sociologically as interesting thing about this is he's our hero, may no matter that he watches a young woman choked death or on violent, no matter that he then Poisons a young boy with lily the valley, no matter what this guy does we go with him interesting night, some point I was like. That's that's the trick here is that this is not Isn't this guy should not be winning now he shouldn't anne and you know, but the EU can help a room for him because got cancer any so fuckin smart- and you know, he's like you know, he's his own guy who at smarts everybody, but it's funny you, although we run up to the end, there's plenty of people because
get some point. I started sympathising with with hank yeah we have which is you're supposed to yeah, well e n n, and there is no, as far as like they're, both prideful yeah, oh yeah, absolutely I became sort of a weird moral study it and I wish I had loved to sit here and take credit for yeah. I knew it'd be like this and I I would so lucky along the way with such a lightning and the by lightning. In a canada situated writers, whales with great writers. We have great actors, I had I had as blessed with these. Writers and actors and directors and and everyone is pulling the rope in the same direction, but even even Follow that didn't know I could make it walter white would remain so sympathizing for people. I because we're way perversely, was trying to shake people off in the early going, I was I was saying I wouldn't have bad. We make
guy before everybody just tunes out and then the show ends and then I'll find another show to do. And lo and behold I lost a believer walter white. Before most viewers did evasive I'll stay with him. The hawk the ever widening guides a testament to how stable. Question is that he has worked well. It goes Add to that. That first thing I ever cast him in that that extra episode I needed a guy who could be villainous and mean and and and nasty, and yet when he, when he died, you you have and have sympathy for the devil. You I had to say tsar view right here and he pulled and then I I saw that in him. We all saw it in him in that in that audition am, and he was there was no other guy who could have played this now. The other question I have about this specifically the work of it. how how much cause I always wondered ass. Having no just finished authorities at my own show
like. I always assume that I'm doing something wrong, even I'm working with guys in terms of like do, should I know what every season supposed to happen to you have a bible for the high now now, if it makes you feel it so you didn't know the whole are now have the series now anna and let me tell you people who, who the whole work for your suit and by the way, there's no one way to do this. Job here, which is simultaneously, was full about it, and what's scary and maddening about it is this? Is there's no one way to do it, and there are folks who say I know the ending of my series if they fell only there. Let me do it. I know I know sees wants, is in tune with theirs. Thing in season three and then here's out all ends for me. If that works, for you go with god, wonderful, but for me, if I knew I never thought I knew, but even if I thought I knew that it has a potential. That's a risky downside to that is. There's gonna, be a boy.
the idea that comes along, because invariably they do some writer some act or somebody some directors Throwing idea your way and it's gonna be better, but you're not gonna, be open to it, because You can have blinders on and you're gonna say now bessie. I already know how I got eyes at the vision, so there were times many times. I wish with new further ahead than we did but We were really were making it up as we went along and, and great things came from that because we very rigorous about consistency most import. Consistent, visual, consistent every eye was not a very emotional consistently, first and foremost, but would you azure how'd? You cast our import erin. All I mean I knew I wanna Brian and this role, but all the other actors came from bialy and thomas shelby and sherry Thomas are casting foe They brought in Erin Paul, for instance, and an I was
can can join in the audition and suddenly I realized he had been in an exe file. I didn't realize exe file, my friend the wrote a few years before that and he is a bit of a chameleon two's I had been recognised and but but that was bialy thomas have found him and he came in and he audition couple years ago. He said to me: do you remember how bad than audition was so many mainly says you member? I flood my life so bad. I had to start over. I said now you didn't do that you because he's he's a suite of is a one off after he a sweet guy who's tough on himself. Sometimes I said, you're just be tough on yourself. You didn't flub the lines he said, I'm telling you I didn't. I said now no. My friend you done and then summons showed me the tape. And if you are right, he floods is live so terribly in the audition and I don't even remember that, because he was electric audition, he was the guy It didn't matter remotely to me that he didn't get the lions right dear, that actors. It's it's an is true. You know the tough thing my
It is after all, actors and never done it. I couldn't I mean I've met not been in any way that counts, and I couldn't do it as for a living and it's such a tough job and and it takes much out of you, I gotta think, and it takes so much willingness to to risk defeat and risk. Jackson, and so much of it is the trouble- is. eyes produce re, usually know when the actor walks in the door before they even open their mouth. If the right for the part, but the thing- as the reason to keep going in for those audacious from from a lay persons from a press reported from a non acting pretty. I want to be the reason to keep doing it. Is that guys? Like me, men and women, like producers? Like me, in my position, we were very often we love someone. We instantly no they're wrong for the role at hand We love em, nonetheless, and we find them away and we say as when they walk out the door. We say to the casting folks completely
long for this role, but please an asterisk by that name, and I want to see them again in the future if we have thus himself right an and that you know that's that's, that's a reason. One of the many reasons can put yourself out. There now was Erin Paul was. He was the plan to keep him. me like as now originally now there was, I was gonna, kill him, or rather the jesse. I'm gonna kill the character off of the end of the first season, and this This is one of those few now. This is an interesting back to my last question. Asked me did, I know the ending of season one. For instance, I thought I did this great example of of being opened a better ideas, because I thought I knew that at the end of season, one the character jesse should die herring. Having fulfilled his purpose of of getting him how to teach and had to data, do this job, it would get killed, horribly and walt propeller cynicism to because war would say would feel
guilty and he would feel angry at the guys are murdered his former student and he would get revenge, and that would be the engine of drama for Isn't too, but as soon as we had our power he was so good. He didn't have the two of them and he was now at an end. The chemistry bonaparte intended brow and the two of them was so outstanding that that I would have been a fool to grow oftest character. And I would have been globally by not my nose. Despite my face, I thought it was a pretty. beautiful bed bit of cinema at the very end when you owed aaron, how it ended up for her good, not you, because I've met guys. I didn't you, you meet guys were get glamour, recovery guy, so yeah you here stories horrible stories, sort of equally I now I just do this job and I can they live this life and it and you can go on there and you can you know you can put it behind you
that is a that was a beautiful beat and I'm so glad I I didn't know where it came from as much as anything that came from our love for erin and her love for the character jesse and jesse would not have been as lovely a character if not for errand was is yet again. The collaborative writer of this of this businesses of this job is that you know someone else plan him. What if we had a different path from a different ending someone who wasn't as sweet of spirit and as and as a lovely a person as our paul, what are they I would ever character and might have been killed off sooner and might have been, but we fundamentally wanted him to survive. We meaning the writers yeah he's the only one here and we we if we felt we talked about him, get killed because everything was on the table. Everything was possible in those final days, final weeks and months and writers room, but we realized we just wanted to see. Him get away. We are ride off into the sunset, such as it was. That was the ending
yeah for him yeah. That would be the ending of the series yeah yeah, the last thing you see right the last time you see him yeah yeah. So while a genius stuff, and I and I like that you give so much credit to everybody involved. It was just a mind, blowing experience that I miss. I miss it. Thank you I miss it too. Is it to so? What what can due to build a series around that care saw, we were no bob, you, nobody knew where I get. Is it a comedy? It's you What it's it's! It's I thought it was waning, the best way of putting it is bad for a break in bad. I thought it was a drama, the Luba comedy and when we see with this pure gold? My thought better call Saul would be the flip of it. We thought it'd be a comedy with a little bit of drama, there's actually much more drama. Just like there was much more comedy tube in bad than I ever what I guess. There is much more drama to better call solvent everywhere guessed but the, but it did it.
The genesis of its stemmed from loving working and I should say I as a besides of loving working with babo kirk, and that is true, but that in enough in and of itself done answer the question, because I love working with Paul. I workin we're right. You know sue brad, an m and andean orison and anna gotta, our dream media, any of them. I would love. I want to work with them a few, but also with the character of saw goodman. He is, he is fun to generate dialogue. For me, such a gift of gab that most of us don't possess an and it's fun putting those words and his mouth that was part of the fun of it and part of the interest in it initially and also this, we also becomes morally challenged and somehow yo compromises themselves and has to justify that yeah. Although having said that we
had so little. It's I'm embarrassed to say how little understanding we had of saw goodman want peter, and I, when we started talking about my spin off series, we didn't realize that he was a nice guy and somewhat heroic. In fact, in in his past, we didn't know any discovered that we discovered it as we win you now as a group as a group of writers and anne, but with bob's help as an actor portraying the character. What right, man you're off to a good start and excited about idea that second season. Thank you. Thank you more say right now we are half way through absolute five out of ten episodes, break breaking the story and the writers of those up soldier plugin away, and you will be should through the summer and enter the into the fall. Ok, if you want, if you need me in albuquerque for a bit part, you, let me know anytime you're in town, please let us know we would love to. Have you come visit. Would love to put you on the show? Can't do it? Do you get back to you, get back to albuquerque yeah, my dad's there when we're getting along. I go back. Alright, yeah, yeah I'll I'll, come out I'll, just I'll play
trip around when you're shooting via gay events or having down for it. As long as you are right on man, I would love that we'd be honored. I'd love to work with bob that'd, be a blast he's great and thanks for taking time from the writing process. To do this. I appreciate that hadn't been marked for a guy right right, That was a lion love. It was great conversation. Ok, yeah, deputy upon our competent march in the dates and everything else, so me miss margaret when I found every touching, so let's do it uh
in the boomer lives.
Transcript generated on 2022-09-13.