« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 625 - Harmony Korine

2015-08-02 | 🔗
Filmmaker Harmony Korine and Marc give it a second try after a fairly awkward live WTF episode a few years ago. Without Eddie Pepitone and James Franco to distract them, Harmony and Marc have a long chat about making movies, pushing boundaries, shooting on film, David Blaine, Werner Herzog, and the 20th anniversary of Harmony’s breakout movie, Kids.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this, how are you at the burghers what the blood bodies, what the budget there is, what the buck sticks? How is there in the world I can see small slice of it, a mark mariners, wtf. Welcome to the show. Today, on the show I talked to harmony, Korine, the film director in new york city and the twentieth firstly of kids was happening and that's why he was in town generally, he usually generally usually he lives in nashville. and I was able to sort it out. Cajole him didn't take much As some of you remember, I did a lie beauty f in austin, it's out by south west, in harmony he was on it and j J franco is on the two of them. Were there doing up a promote or in a screening of spring breakers
just a movie that I like and was not an easy interview with the two of them out there in, and I remember thinking that debt backstage this heart Hey guys is pretty funny, like em scott good energy fund, to talk to and then the two of them get out there and it was a fucking nightmare. entertaining an idea. I don't I did it all, but it was. It was difficult in the semi remember right out of the gate I started the harmony in a very anxious and desperate way to connect him in there. In my respect for his art night, and I believe I spit on his face by accident not like to spit but spit came out of my mouth when I was desperately trying to necked around around his art. I am in fort worth texas at the the podcast movement two thousand and fifteen It's it's a week Andrews several day, event that a hotel where it is
It happens to be in fort worth taxes, and speakers and seminars, and I guess almost Ass is about pike asking about the business about execution about how to do it. I got here yesterday went out to dinner with some folks and then I went to this party and I met a lot of the pod castors or possible pod castors, who are here to a two figure and how to do it and where to put It- and you know how to get it bigger and all that stuff hold on taking a sip of coffee. They made here in the room I had to. They had one of those double header, a single serving coffee makers, not the kind, not the fancy kind. We lock it down and it pops a hole in the thing and puts water through it, but the kind with the little disc sort of circular a coffee packets in there's, usually two possibilities on the top is that there there's a plastic shelf that you put one or two for one or
cops, but what I did, how like look, listen to what I do cause. I, like my coffee, strong as I put two in there and then I just filled it up with enough water for one cup, and then I took the two half sir cups of coffee and made them one cup of strong coffee, and I know how to fucking. Do this road thing: man, god dammit I've got it figured out up here on the fifteenth floor of the omni hotel in fort worth texas. Looking over, I don't know what a club leaf on the highway, a couple of seemingly old buildings with at least fifty garage. it's on the bottom that stored. I don't know what the history is here. The remnants of buildings at once were the past. Melodies of buildings. That will soon be lots with cranes and tractors in them and then just beneath me, fifteen force down an old church, an old church. It's like you, look out man, you look out and it's sunday morning, so its relatively quickly
yet there are five six cop cars on the highway of their with their lights on up to something I don't know what there's a car just drive and where it's the only cartons one road is just drive nursing, in their he's, probably listening to music, he might be having a cigarette. Maybe he's old school might be a chest or field. If you can still find them he's got a life he's got things on his mind. He might be up to no good I don't know, but there's a whole life in that car, and all I see is the car when you really think it the multitudes of possibilities of what people are up to any given secondary. There's a guy walking across the street where's he go. It Why is it insidious wise? It seem more loaded is the only fucking guy out there and it does not look like a walking environment will, thank god, thank god for podcast periscope, twitter, facebook. Every one of these people in this great glorious world have an outlet
two maybe share their journey yeah, I'm in my car smoking to chesterfield their harder to find now, but I am committed to them. I like just bills my grandfather smoke. As fields in when I was a little kid? I saw cigarettes and I knew they were wrong by the hour look so great when he smoked them. So that's what I smoke and I listened in my merle haggard cd right now, because I had a little trouble at home a little trouble at home. I couldn't go home last night, so I've been driving around this empty. Downtown area for three hours had some pie talked of fran over at the place. She listened To me I don't know. Maybe I should be with fran. I quit smoking. I gotta quit smoking see. Maybe that's going on, maybe that guy's podcasting in his car I don't know, could he could do it? He could do it me and brenda mcdonald who you are
got to know a little better on the episode after the president. My producer and business plan We are new york. I was in new york. I did a episode of charlie rose, which I believe went well. it was interesting waiting to go on. Charlie rose I'm in the bloomberg building, which has an amazing snack area and a mate. it looks like you have to pay for it. Like there's just widows areas, you know cereal and granola bars and then as a juice area in a coffee area. from salads little assorted, but they type area just write them, the Bloomberg, building huge and who is it hard thing for me because I wasn't really that hungary and I was running a little late and I didn't make the time to sort a horde snacks.
Who doesn't like hoarding free snacks, but it was a it- was pretty impressive in terms of an office kitchen. I think they win there and there's another guy walking, there's no one out there. It's ok, I'm not gonna worry about him. Makin worry about him, so so yes, I waited. I was waiting to go on Charlie. I was in John sununu was on and literally there was no break in between us. It's just that black studio, just two chairs they seed stew, new new rap and the producer brings me there and I wait until sununu and a charlie have some parting words and then I sit right down right after sununu, and I just watched charlie, look and study his cue cards about me and then he looks up and we start and he mispronounces my name right out of the gate. Mark moron is a podcast like marron mere I just
and I felt bad got a correct. Oh god, corrects or we're gonna have to go back and do the whole thing wrong. I have to live with that so that initially, as an interviewer to interviewer as charlie's an interviewer, I am an interviewer. I was like alright. So how much does he really know about me and what did he just load? His head up with good question, didn't ask him that it went pretty well and I think it was good and it was nice to me Charlie. You know I'd like to interview, charlie, perhaps in the future, so then later that night, Brendan and myself go see a play. We go to the theater, we see the flick by Annie baker and it is a pure surprise. Winning play the entire play. Takes place in a theater in massachusetts outside a whisker three primary characters who work at this theatre. That runs thirty, five millimeter prints of movies, there's just two guys and a woman who
now who are employees at this theater that it turns out is being sold but but they just they just talk like people who work that kind of job. It's a it's supposedly for most people to job passing it's a job that you you sort of due for a while. Why you're in between things or thinking about doing something else, but one of the guys has been their longer to on really and the woman. as has been there a while and doesn't not sure what were her life is gonna go and then the other kid took a semester off colleges something but but the point singing is that it's one, though, shows we watch it and it's a few hours long, but the dialogue is sort of not sparse but limited to the type of things it people talk about. What working at a mundane job with some other people and the placing of it is very, it's very interesting. The space between things being said and cleaning the theatre
are long and you have to sit there and silence with these characters. Doing these tasks trying to make conversation, and you walk out thinking like what was that about that that one pure surprise it demands understanding and me, and brendan talked for like an hour about it, trying to fight that understanding of what we felt about it? What that reflection was and what it said about us and culture and what the play was about, and it was that kind of walking through this. The streets of new york, that and realizing that you know that was that's one of the amazing things about new york. That's one of the amazing things about a city, and it's there's not that many that have a vibrant color. rural, seeing where you go see theory get a slice of pizza any flock and talk about the play for a couple hours. It was great. It sparked my brain Run in all directions, as you can hear
hopefully we're going to have any baker on the show harmony Korine? This took place at the bowery hotel little little bit ago. Does the theme here I'm in a fort worth hotel, but my conversation with harmony was at to the bowery hotel in new york city. You go to cuba, you really see. Have you gone there, yeah yeah yeah, and I never went there, it seemed like it was too much trouble. I think it's going to be easier soon. It is like one of the most amazing places. Is it really is like one of my like? It is one of the most incredible places. I've ever it's it's very frozen in time yeah, but it's like psychedelic, it's not really like it. It's not one specific time right right, so it it. You know it's like you'll, see like people playing chess on like pee on pizza boxes, right with like snails as their own pieces. Yeah
He says it's like really like two or three in the morning of sea like little kids run around in the streets with hammers and, like there's, no mean others like bed time in that those are the toys, hammered, yea hammer, we'll get hammers and, like others like a big toy there and is also. Is it's one of places where everything looks so good that it like difficult to irish. Sometimes it does it, but when you're making movies or something that's easy to figure out where you want to put the camera or where you want to like how you want to photograph something, because it's like most of the in america, mostly like ninety nine percent is like, looks bad and then maybe there's like a small percentage. Something looks, good, so you mean like theirs. I it's not or but their take. Everything looks good You never know where it is a very difficult thing.
gotta figure out, like you know, you're like well, I could go in this direction or I could go on that shoot down there and yeah. You know I was doing some stuff yeah. It has not been seen yet yeah. I did the film. It's called the blood of havana. You could pray that it's a. She was just like kind of like a little like kind of almost like morgan, artwork yeah that you could probably find somewhere. Now, when you do something like that, did you go down there with the intention of doing that? Or did you just bring a camera? I gotta do this. It's all the same I have like. My intentions are like a la times is stored. In the back of my mind, minors or I'm just like, I, I kind of go for some like that, it's more like in case it happens, I'll be like ready for it or all. I kind of right Sometimes I can only even know what am I looking for you I mean I have to just like I have maybe it'll, be like this and then it is and then I it just act on it.
Is he at since I haven't seen it it's a short. How long is it? Oh yeah, that's a I dunno, it's like probably a couple of minutes, long! It's it's pretty! It's really fast, ITALY. It's like a lot of prosthetics evolved and yeah yeah. It's trippy like what what prosthetic limbs or press it no faces like either. You know the kind of thing like bank robbers would wear. You know if you're gonna rob a bank, you probably want to look like an old got old man, yeah sure the scary old man yeah sorta, look like and when you do something like that, as as an art piece cause, you kind of frame it that way and do you do you shoot it and you just sort of like alright, it's done done. We got the footage and you cut it up and you just you release it into the world as the sometimes I swear their certain things that I've done it. I've never shown before, like that, have an ever been that I've just done that
and not even saying I made for myself, but there are things that I've done, that I just the time didn't feel right right. I did this one. I have this. One project is still not finished. It's the I it with my friend Chris Cunningham, the Video director and like we're living in london is about ten years ago, and we made this film is called mitch. Poppins fear it's about a guy who has like a like a super severe tourette's case of tourette's it's off of it- gets out of an airplane and is trying to search for Madame two swords in london and it's his threats is like a break dance, move kind of like it's like this crazy, like popping move and we filmed it was like we spent like it's an. He gets glossop in the gay scene and starts like doing poppers and stuff like alleyways here, but has been almost becomes like this musical. But the time didn't seem right when I feel like the time seems
all right now. So yea happened. Yes, I like a feature film, it's more prior, like twenty minutes, long but added the threats is more like up like up like a dance movement assigned a kind of musicals like each other, each take like the right, which has a different like musical sent like sound like us like a solid where you're afraid of vending people. Now you know now. I was actually like ready to do it. I think Chris was will more like. We should weigh alone. yeah, maybe that he may be. That is too high right now to rats yeah direct dresses like sensitive in, like though it is Where did they be in a position where you that line you ride from making fun of somebody with a real problem and comedy, or what here you know it's tricky, but you ve done. you ve done stuff like that before, but I think, if the characters deep enough in its not actually mocking the dunes and then you should be able to yeah, I mean this was aren't you know like something
also it was like a music. It was like a musical version of it. The weird thing is is like doing that thing. The tourette's thing on the train. Once the some guy came up, It was all hidden cameras and indifferent people. Farmers like cameras in their like books in and stuff There is some guy on the on the tube in london came up and he was on the leading to read. Doktor is like I know exactly what If he's like, you need a start telling me like the medications to you. You are just what you're doing like this extreme yeah, these like extreme movements yeah and he was like. I wrote the books on it and, like you sat me down and for like fifteen minutes was like. Did you get that the way I figure as like air, I would assume it will be in there is not edited yet the fishes. Are we as you did you get a release from that guy? it releases a lot out of that. I dunno about any of that. If you just forge all those
I just do anything comes back adrian. He shouldn't be mad at these good advice, he's representing himself. Well, I dunno he was concerned. You just do with it. Yeah here have you ever had a flack like that we're fucking people get pissed off ground players that didn't know they were background. Play yeah well, usually you mean just like him ever like had not a guy needed, might be shot no well, usually it's like there it it depends like if it's like a film, it's like, so they have people that really just scour for faces an armoury when we did gama. That was a big issue cause I was if you were shoot the way ruse being shot, was like a pretty inclusive in my home people from all neighborhoods and people, I would just pull people out of houses and we would go into walk into houses and shooting and that that part was difficult, but that shot in nashville right and that part was like difficult. Two cause. I'm sorry, I didn't really even understand the idea of releases and all that stuff, and so you had to have people that would you know, go back after the
It gets me right and had to go back and find those guys, and that's that's like a crazy thing to do. I don't I I'm weird about roses too. It feels like an intrusion, but I guess it's necessary. It's best. If you if somebody just go deal with it together, yeah you have to I mean when I was doing, I was really messed up and I was doing these videos where I was getting beaten up all the time on the streets and what was that about? Why are we doing that?. It- was like a long goes that was probably I was allows was see almost. many years ago, forty now yeah, so it was like about twenty. It was like. Ninety was like ninety seven, so yeah it was about like it was. It was almost. Years ago. This is a kind of remember that was driving you to do. That will like I really just why It was this film I wanted to do was called fight harm, and I really just wanted to make this movie. I thought I was like a big buster Keaton fan right and like and and Abbott and costello
like our. I love like slapstick, and I really wanted what I thought was like at that time, maybe a misguided way, but I just wanted to make like up like a perfect comedy, and I thought it was just like the distillation of like is like pure violence, a repetition of violence we would become like some would take on some time. Of like epic humor. You know like guys lips on a banana appeal and slaps and hid himself in a head right beside really funny, but it's like pure violence, and so I wanted to in my mind, take it to like an extreme and and just make a film, and I I really wanted to like be like a big movie. So I go there almost like a provocation. It was like. I said I made these rules and I was just like I would just have a camera crews. Follow me. I wanted to get in a fight with like every demographic generally me like I wanted to get out.
No, not kids but like you had to be over eighteen, but like I wanted it to be more like where you would fight like you know, you'd find like a lesbian right today or, and you would get like or and then you'll like it. subdued nag ride like I want it to be like so your provoking people provoke people want a ballot being tough renault arousing about me. Fighting them is more about like the idea that egg. I wanted to make a film it was like. I basically only rules I had to do whatever it took to make someone punch me right away. and then and then it was on a kind of like right at an end. I would never like make em like. I would never go for it first, provide back now that you know you like paeon somebody they'd like girl. After you, you know like they were just like they're just like go after. And they getting back to the the releases every time. I gotten one of the so others about nine of them right than, and I like David Blaine was one of the us. He was like one of the people
you had four. It was like operator, though he would followed. Film uses producers right, so I like a small croupier that were like would follow me around and I was like living in the grammar c and they follow me around and then you know, I'd usually have to get out in a certain state of mind and then to get out there also cause it's really painful cause I was like
it'll, beaten up, and if I was going to say is that like they were all pretty much, they all the people that beat that after the fights were done, and I and even I would get arrested a lot of the times and the producers would always go to them afterwards and and they would all sign releases that they were fine with it. It was like a weird thing: people just wanted, like they were at least say hey. This isn't real, actually he's trying to do this thing, and that- and that was all just like a part of this project right doing. Can we get your release and does after like extreme violence where they lose it yeah and they, and I think there was like no case where they weren't like alright. did you ever release that footage? No, so I have I have the t I have the fights I wanted it to be like a movie it will play in the mall. You know like I wanted to just find it like a galaxy. I thought it would, but I didn't realize, like how short they would last
Do you know what I mean? How how come you got like twenty minutes, how quickly they that yeah cause like one could end in like a minute. You know like I, just get knocked out or something right. it's sort of what jackass did in a way amongst them a little bit yeah yeah, but but it seems like it's a little more focused and a little more specific yeah, just sort of like a bunch of guys who just don't give a fuck about anything. Yeah, there's, probably a connection, definitely to it, but it was a little bit different and then and then you know I just like at some point I was like. I was don't even know if I really wanted after was all done enough. I couldn't go on a more. I got an arrest it a few times and only one like my body was a really able to take it. Who beat you up to. most. I got really nailed. This bouncer at stringfellow was just at the strip club. Just like a guy went up to like a stripper with these bull holding these balloons, and I popped her balloons yeah and the dude just went crazy, like just like ass literally, like beat the shit out yeah yeah.
It is pretty nuts. Did you hear what I try to like fight back a little bit, but it was more like ours. It was more like I, I want like throw a try She can add them or something like that, but the trash can was like a chain to the lie to the to the poll. You know, and then he just knocked me out just like clocked me. He kiss yeah, I get by decreasing. The crazy thing is some of those days. I would try to get em done. I would try to do two or three in a row because I was just trying to get it done with you know. I was already so messed up. I have all like the images Don't you think you're the only you to look at that? look at it. I that's part of a wider, never put it out because it's more like I almost thing is this: like the idea It is almost better than actually likes it. You know what I mean like the I I'm not exactly sure. If, like it'd be a let down to even put it out, I don't even really know if I want to ever look at it again. Maybe it's like something that happens much later. I even I even have the like lots of photographs, stills from the like the injuries and stuff and wow
cause it's weird cause. The idea was comedy- and I'm just thinking about that moment where, where shit really happens, where the connection is made yeah and it changes in tone yeah and that as witness a vat or somebody watching that you get that. like. Oh shit, yeah, you know I get discomfort and then like in then that thing where you and was also if commies like victim, this is idealism is always like on and the other end of it right. It's right there and I did you know you're the guy you're, the guy, we're odin for but there's no way, you're gonna, wind right and I couldn't direction. What else to do it because it would down but becoming something so completely differ you know you liked. It seems to me that in those vignettes that once you do, you get no traction and no you have no average and you're just getting the shit beaten out of yeah it that the the comedy would probably dissipate a little
I thought you'd and yes, amaze, misguided, because I thought it would go the other way. I thought it which is built like. I thought it would just be like the repetition of the violence which is make it would almost like negate it, and I would just become something that was just like for humor, maybe it would, if you put them all, it's like wylie, coyote, yeah, that's exactly right! The kind of what I was going for yeah, it's a I I what was your when you were doing it I mean, does I think, wily coyote a sympathetic only because, like you know his face, could equally well himself up it'll be all smoke and cinders, and then you see him the next. You know yeah he's back together very quickly. Yes, a fucking cartoon. That's why it didn't work.
Well, yeah, the you know he's you know he's never going to like also strange time in my life. You know it's like a while ago, and it was a strange time because the people were like jet can genuinely concerned. For me, you know like charlie, what, like everyone thought I was like losing it. A little bit or I didn't realize what the truth is like. I knew how I was wanting to do where I was just really ambitious with that and I'll they thought, because this was the project in all areas like our members is like. You know, there is a good thing that people would say. Like you don't know where your life begins in the open, right right right, I want a media were like life begins in the and the work right right. It was all in it. It was more like it wasn't. It I didn't know is more like I just didn't I wanted it ought to be the same.
yeah. Do you know what I mean? I know exactly what I mean. I feel the same way in in in in what I do, because I realize the other night, where I got off stage at bam. You have to perform for two thousand people, and I just you know I went and I got my little bag and I put my things in it and I was just walking out with I didn't yeah register that there was no change in tone really yeah and the second, the second weird it is certain that also when you're younger, it's also color could become dangerous and murky, because you never want things to end. right, yeah, because in also you're working through bigger things he answered of developing identity, taking chances for the first time taking chance to develop. Also it's like an energy, then you're, younger yeah, at least for me. I was like an energy that you just you, get like amped up on a certain on a thing and you just never wanted. You know what I mean like days and nights and and truth and and fiction like you wanted, I dunno like it
it all to be the same and like to to never end what sort of interesting to see you now and like when I saw you in Austin that was a weird night. It was funny that was hilarious. I don't know if it was hilarious for me, but it was pretty good. Yeah, it was like awkward because I didn't know you know James and you know, and and and you guys have been thrust into this situation, which I don't think either of you knew what it was not and it just I was trying my hardest to do. Thing, and then you know night. I think not. I think like at that point, like a word from million james. Definitely I remember not like knowing what would you like? You know, and I
I remember it was the weirdness of, like the other guys, also that were there and then there was like an audience and then that some guy in the audience started like remember, there's some guy in the audience who stood up and started screaming. Oh that's! Well! That was a that was a child, er yeah kind of fake. But it was this weird mixture of like of like strange michelle. Personalities and situation. Sometimes that makes for like something that's really awkwardly it was. It was all roared yeah good good. That was like awkward like, but I don't know any of us were doing it on purpose. I think James was just trying to you know like rise above it Bet you didn't want to be made a fool right. You, you sort of kind, detached and fragmented out on me out
I wash in what was happening and then, like you, come out, and I ask you a question I spit on you. Remember that you just spit out like oh, this is going to fucking disaster. It was good. It was like these are some kind of weird theater. It was a little bit. I was so upset by it at the afterwards, but like that, like that, the the when I saw you know, I remember when you were young, that you know you're sort of, like you know, over wild yea I look at us. Waking the authority yasser guy. A kid now yeah suggested is the guy was a kid. Happens right. Look I mean it happens, but I like the same person, but I don't know it really depends on it. It some
it's like all in there sure I know it. Does you no way in that it? It's like all like it's not like a rejection of anything but ass, no, but it's more like You want your life to at some point if you're going to keep being able to like live and you know, grow and expand, and if you're just going to survive any you just want to have like a like a life you have to like the b mike was like receptive to stay. Just get in things, get tempered here, there's things that used to be afraid of the yarn and now just by virtue of being alter right. like it's not like anything changes other than like natalie need to do that any more. I don't write it also like when you talking about young, I mean like I was like making things as a kid, so you really are like Kid Leon really are like bettina. or you know in your early twice. It really is like you still disfiguring things. I just figuring it. you went to that twenty years
anniversary yeah, it's how old were you when you make it? when you re. So I was his graduated high school. I was probably I was my first semester at n y. U so like nineteen something, so it's been like twenty one years, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, who was there So that's why I was in new york. Now I'd suck is generally be here, but I do not like coming back not really. I bit pry, like my least favoured, placed to become back to why? Oh, no, I just like, does it make you sad? is it's maybe there's like some there's? Definitely that may be sadness as I get that in some of it, but is more leg for one again only recognise that it's a weird thing is you. I recognize it, but I d. Sarah recognized right, yeah now and then here when you are your how's, your twenty years ago and ever irregular, and it's free
like a shopping mall to me now right in a lot of ways in the city itself is beautiful, but I dont like what of it yeah, it holds a lot of memories and a lot of ghosts here, as also just like ice, is like super kind of aggressive. I just them like. I don't really in it, feels like an office like a come kind of like a gm. Do do my thing. It would be a weird place. I don't think I could ever like live here again. I don't think so. I could. I couldn't either really cause you get to there's a pace to it it's kind of exotic yeah and you get into. Zone and everything is moving quickly, and here I was on you like. I had died forty dollars this morning. Where is it and in its exhausting, but know how to be here. I don't know like what it stands for any more like it, I don't know like would not just for yourself, but in january, just in general passed like it,
of consumption. I dont know what lake would what it is any more interesting because I think of when you did kids in that year, that sort of your generation of people doing the art whatever it was, that was almost the end of it yeah I mean it idea of that vitality is year cause. It was like the land Maybe that was like the latter. I would like the last kind of get gasp of likeable wildness in the city be out, because it was like a kind of you know. The thing was a cool like when I, when I was teenager when I moved here from national, was like these What is there is the idea that, like kids with no money, creative kids from around me, browser had just like a dream of envisions could just common. You could like poor honey together and get some place in the city and live, and like do your thing and it's, I guess you can't really do that in the same cause. You know what good for like, five thousand a year ran little kid. I can see no eighteen year old, kids,
So you move out till I guess it's me, that's like when the other boroughs queens, but in those places are different. The up. he's your hold, I mean I don't know. What's going on broken, I missed everything but is different. Also like I mean the world itself is different in that you know so little effect, but at the time it was very much about like culturally about that. At that point it was something about people, china, like a get lost, and there is like also you know. A railway cyber like the danger of the city, stuff like that, but it was like a comp like a palpable violence in a danger and a fear and a feeling that, like if you went to this place- or you did this thing- you might not like come out the other end yeah, you know, and so that's exciting. That's what you're talking about
it's just with the yeah, get it punched up and yeah, but it's just exciting because it has extremes and it was also like it was big and you could just get like lost in new york. Yeah and you can like and and culturally was weird and like like go into like. movie mediators. There be junkies passed out and I was just like a strange like really to the city and like it wasn't like everyone so into in boxes. Does It- and I don't know who's here, anyone another great people are like theirs. The familiarity to it and and like in brooklyn. I guess that's where a lot of young people live, but there's a whole fashioned things there too, or it doesn't feel like there's any there's, not a lot of risks being taken creative, we run in general right yeah. Well, that's like a yeah, that's true! That's even a bigger thing! Is it right that the kind of by even when I remember when I saw kids, it was something kind of weird and wrong. Yet israel about it and the city was a big part of that. Yeah like you can. I said it though, because that's what's yours
Two was the twenty year anniversary couple nights ago of They screened and I I've seen it not. I don't feel I was seen it since it was almost made The actors were there and was wearing their larry. Was there really now everybody shut up and I was there, I was. I really trippy was really when I was saying that I don't think that the movie pray kid even exist. He could never make it a movie again, not just because it is so much less permissive now, but site would be somewhat more difficult exercise more rules, but it's even just negatively story wise. It's like you, can never house like her trying to find the sky her trying to fine tele visa because this value, it may I now she would just take a cell phone and text them and say you gave me aids She'd, honey, meaner. Let you get you know it would be like there would be no more like you really with films in writing. You can't be carefully get, worse than america, anymore, like where I had make wrote a film, like a road movie anymore, because everyone has
keep yes, there's like impossible to really lose yourself anymore, the thin, trusting ha and because it is not only because narrative, we speaking, but but There's no mystery to anything like there's, no yeah, well technology, really in a lot of ways like all the technology it really kind of. May it really it major drama difficult in some ways because like in order to be, if you're even try to be a little but accurate, you have to like address it, and it's kind of a lot of it is not that exciting tonight. Isn't he is that where, though, that, like that, like a conceived for a movie, will be, we're gonna, take these four characters and just try to have them spend three days without their phones right right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's totally it that's! That's an experimental film, yeah yeah. That is, I mean it's. It's weird. You can't really movies that won't do like yeah. That movie was
it made sense now how's the? How was and chloe was there too yeah, yeah and larry clark? Was there yeah? You can see? How has your asian ship with him. You know I hadn't like really like keep so much in content. the other like for a while, but like it was. But no it was nice because I see after all these years, it was like it was good because he was like a big part of my life as a kid and like watching him as an artist, like I didn't, know, artists and unknown. They are dysfunction how'd, you meet him, whether through the photographs. Your way, no, I met him in a park like he just lake was in washes. Her party dislike was, I was between classes, and I was hanging out with some my friends than the pie. and he was taken photos of like skaters and Sofia. There were, and he was his next men-
I dunno he just started talking and then like I do. I was I guess he was had a or something I was like asking him about his camera, and then he asked me what I wanted to do and I was like I wanted to make movies and what I used to do was in high school I'd, make these films in high school and because when I was young, I wanted to make movies young, like I really wanted to. I was like on fire. You know I wanted to. I couldn't be contained. I was like really wanted to to to make films like right then, and there yeah and so what I would do is I was living at my grandma's house. I didn't have any money and I would just have a stacks of vhs tapes of my all the films I'd made in highschool, and I would have her phone number written on my grandma phenomenon and I had a pager beeper and I put the and then, if I awesome body that I thought like mile, like one move out just hand em a film
I would just hand him like a video, and so I think, that's probably what happened like I talked to Larry and I was like you should watch the like. You know I just stuck like a video game where, where the As a just like these, like little like movies, I was making eyes shooting on like sixty millimeter. Like I had been. in closing, never lay particular good in schools Those is just like a normal, you know but I never had. I went public schools. Duffin nationals was pretty crappy and leg but socially, they were kind of. They were good. I like the was was a strange time in the south and and and the schools and I went to were actually really socially progressive and la an interesting but the but I had like the I I had never been told I I was always you know we used to get hit in school were on stuff. You know like I and I, I been told by teacher than I had ever done, anything they. Those doing was good.
yeah I'd. Never you know what I mean like I just used to goof around and like kind of a clown kid now you are not a clown, but, like I was just thinking my own thing in like I'd, be Cape were our like skateboarding and stuff. Like where'd, you print where'd, you get your parents come from. I mean I come come from europe, but they I grew up in a commune in tennessee I and then I got my commune and then move to national in, like probably is like ten years a commune was in tennessee via your boy. There, I was born in billina S, California, where that's where the seals are. yeah yeah fuckin, billina yeah, I was I was born in We must lay in a kind of communal thing there to repair them recover. They are around they're both around they like live out in Do they really here in nashville? You know they live in the actual giant in panama really so we stay committed to them.
The other on they didn't do their own thing you get along with them. It's all it's all good and able to find them. Yea it around here and aye, sir. You didn't really have role models and the teachers and are very supportive. So then I had this item his creative writing class and, like I and I wrote the store, I was probably fifteen or sixteen or something like that, and I had this teacher and I like rotis like a short story, and it was like the first time like and I was like falling asleep in class, and she like held up my this paper and she was like she was like a harmony. Can you stand up and read this?
I was at one of those in trouble cause you get hit or something she said. Oh it's so good and blah blah blah and after sc after class, she said like what do you want to do when you get older and I was like- I just wanted to make movies as like all I ever wanted to do at that point, and she said well, if I can get you money, could you turn this story that you wrote into a film like ashore? movie, and I was like, of course, and she somehow like, went to the school board and got me a couple of thousand dollars and up dad shimerda work, the cameras and, like I gotta, play a filmmaker Rihanna documentary film maker in the seventies and eighties. like and showed me how to like what I had had edited film and like I like the technical side of things, and then I somehow just like translated this into. Like a you know, into a script and or into a movie, and then that was like what I ended up, getting like a scholarship to N y. U and like cause, I didn't really have money to pay for the tuition right
I was like that's kind of how it all happened, and then I met larry in the park wow. So that did you did you stay in touch with that teacher? Yeah. Her name is miss Bradshaw. I say ice. I've like seen her a couple of times in nashville. When I go back, she is like one of the weird things you never hear like people actually tell you that oh teacher, really did something were like she really did she like? There really was. One of those things are regularly. Does lake at a huge effect oh yeah, you're right on your life, because you know I can barely remember the names of my teachers or any of these, except just you know but she really like had this like he did this one gesture for me that, like really it ended up change I say, setting an all out because it was only like to you was only what like two or three years from that point, that I was making a real. We see me Larry and he's taken pictures and you gave him a videotape and then, as it and then this was devised an intense guy yeah.
Yea I definitely and like you, I was really I familiar with at that point. I was just come of national laws We were like no, he didn't know his photograph, but I didn't really know what it was that alsa and kids are in the other. Two were teenage lost teenage what's right and in and and I went over and over, but but just in talking to him he liked the same types of beam before I was even knew it. We like liked a lot of the same types of movies right at the time. What war merrily being relay your time. I specifically youth films and there are movies like over the edge rumble fish. the the outsider either, there's a movie presumed film copy, showed by hector bank. That's a heavy movie. There that was really big. Merci. Now, when I was a kid I was about like the pickpockets yea ever showed in there. I was so that's right then, and there was a bit. I was a big kind of infill icons and now I see that and I can see the man even iconic
as the various movies at the time were a big super big deal for me and and him and I yeah that's how it started. Then I just went over. I I went over to his house or more gus van sant was there and I knew who gus was you know and I own private, idaho at that time, in drugstore, cowboy and stuff and so moving, and they were like you know. Gus wanted to produce this film and Larry, like Lucas, was a fan of Larry's and that's kind of how it all happened. I was like. Oh, this looks legit and I was like my first semester school side in really know what you know I was barely figure you now we're like how to write a screenplay where I would a scream plate was, I didn't know, other writers. I had no idea of nineteen eighteen yeah. I had no idea like what so our work diesel who helped to put it together who helped you write the script. Nobody because I had written because I was just
right, I just I just figured it out. I mean I just starting, I wasn't the dramatic riding programme and re use. I would just ask proof: teachers like what's the format and now to do. I understood basic things. Three act structure is not point. I wasn't. Links I I wasn't like deconstructing narrative, yet I was really just like it's a very basic movie and a lot of ways. Yeah structurally and like I, I and I just understood, like just innately kind of more like rhythms of the of the movies and like this idea of like one pages, one minute type of thing so of screen time. So it was like this kind of thing and I you know it's kind of a crazy story, but it's like, I probably wrote it and like week at my grandma's, my grandma's basement in nashville known queens. When I was going to ask where you got the page that she would like come and cut me fruit and like come in and hand it to me and she
and how it is right and no, I thought that was that. How long should take you to write a script? They were like rewrites. I just just fevered skies yeah. There was no notes, or anything I mean or like we'd, discuss like what the film was going to be about you and Larry. Gus knows yeah. Just me mean Larry and like discuss like the things that he wanted. The film to be about there. I knew all those kids in besides it was a very specific there, their dialogue, their voices. I was conflict it is a law is part of that anyway. So was really familiar from me. We are in I was like in you know: it's like you, don't realize at the time, but you're like writing from the inside you're like really in it and that's where, and that was always. First movie, there was everybody. I mean that was good to go back to I was, like I didn't even know was it was doing. I didn't even know what was going to happen till the page right I'd, never written like that. Since and it's like a really it's a it's an awesome way. It's like a freaky way of doing things, but Just kind of just flying you'd right own, for it is normal.
Real anyway, like the idea that a movie would get made when your kid doesn't seem I'll unfolding without a plan on the page like with any was gonna beat. I got to the end right I animal meal, I didn't know, but even even like now and I write I still right pretty loose, but I have like card no cards or some type of like broad structure. Then I was really just like wine with it, and how do you feel that you're watching it with the caste and everybody it's cool yeah. It was like hold up. No, I mean it was a it's it. It was, though it was like. You know it was awesome, it would see it was like beautiful movie print and it's pretty stable seems pretty shocking. I think when you see it is harder for me something with a little bit cause the like to the stars in the movie are dead so because they die just you know, justin wright, who is casper character, killed himself and and harry
the overdose. So it was like a kind of you know it's hard like seeing them as kids on the screen. Yeah. I hear your voice, but beyond that it was, it was a. It was cool. I mean it. It's definitely like a document of that time. I hadn't even watched it since that time, so it was like sure is trippy that, like that movie set the whole thing going, he became sort of like tat. I got a low rockstar new york right, yet I remember seeing young letterman yeah yeah The latter. May I gotta get a kick out of you. Yet was fine, it was late gum, it was cool because it let me make my own movies, Righto and- and I also got to watch how you made films and stuff in it was like the thing like none of us chloe rosaria, nobody had ever even larry like no one, and everyone made him now. it was everybody loves, very diverse films. Everybody's first thing, like noble, ever done anything before so.
was wild than it actually became this whole thing. What sort of But I got you like worries movies in general. I think that you know things Larry's. I got. I always view them as I cannot just really his movies in his work is photographs, everything's, all tied sure, to the same thing, I think he's a I think is very important and is, in his an end it's a kind of unified vision for others. It it's like the it is kind of the you're pushing youth out into the darkness is far right. Go right, like I thought bali was fuckin right, a brain the gray rewrites right like it. He could feel on your fuckin skin. What was wage would. Deva brain is out around the time that started to yeah. You guys just buddies, you dislike I was like yeah, it was actually like. I met him like at the that he came to. The premiere of the movie, was at miramax and and and er where kids yeah- and I was like with my girl-
ama, he has like hanging out in my grandma my little brother and he like then I'd heard I'd been hearing about him for awhile, like I've been hearing about this magician everyone's talking about this magician. He was a kid magician who I was like. I didn't know anything about magic. I was just like magicians, just like with rabbits and stuff pulling rabbits out of hats and, like I didn't, have like an idea of like what magic was. You know like pastures, cheeseball, yeah and yeah. He came up and just like walked right up to me. He like held his deck of cards, and it was like still all in a row. They were wrapped, they were just like in a it wasn't like you just held a deck, and he said I want you to like visualize a card but don't say it and I was like alright and he was like, don't say it and he said, put just put it in your head and they'll say alright and then like he, I opened up this pack of and he
I cut it and it's like turn the card over, and it was the card that I always like in my brain that I'd. Never you know it was like the actual. I was like what the fuck and then he went to my brother and my brother was wearing these. He took. I have no idea how he did it, but he took off his socks while he was wearing his shoes like he took his my he just went up to his socks and pulled his socks off, but his shoes stayed on your brother. Yes, my brother, my little brother, and then he just held it with my brother, walks in his hand, and that was it that it was like. I gotta know this guy yeah I was like whoa. I was super trippy and I was just like whoa come over to my yeah. I are wanted till I really figure because everyone, as an artist or everybody was like so many law painters around hog refers and musicians, abide, never met someone, there could light that was porn socks off your feet, like sounds like something and, and and also it was intriguing because he knew that it took discipline to like when he was,
there's a craft to it, a craft and also like who else does that right? Where do you even come up with that right and so yeah from there we became very close. If you ever, did you ever figure out how he did it? Not that trigger mean, even though the weird thing about David in a lot of those a lot of them is that like, even when you kind of know how it's done, or you hear how it's done it still, equal doesn't alma matter yak, as you know, and even our ear, or even it so hard, even like the weights don years dislike while its likes, you know You know it could take a very somewhere likes if someone would say scales the the empire state building. You know how it's done. They just scale at both amazing does it make it any less like you know they just climate? Rather you do it you, climate villa you did it active doing it still doesn't matter hazards, it'll. Never really, like really do anything for me. as you shot him do some stuff you shot in the early days, because wherefore
In the really early, I would shoot some of his things for his specials and stuff right, and a lot of that stuff came from, I talked with him was like I used to love that show, cops right and and like and- and I think at one point suggested- why don't you just do what they do with cops, except do with magic? You know take it like. I look like cops is really. The first show where you were like seeing the inside of people's houses. The way people lived. That was like really like a revolution like pretty like revolutionary and like it was like. You were like going into like, like these places where you were Warren, invited like you were seeing like the you know, If you have your couches are fucked up, but in like a mainstream context, which is you know up until that point? You know most americans had never you weren't exposed to. You know
being exposed yeah being exposed in that way, and so he, I think, like he ended up getting that producer. That did that show we. I ended up that and that that was definitely like part of what all that street magic thing right, right, yeah, it's just bringing in seeing they're doing it like a non scripted before me. Now everything is like that right. It was bike before before that, isn't that that's kind of wild to think about that that weird intrusion sounds like you did a little of that with a with gamow as well just going into people's and yeah the imo like that gamma was accept, grew up there so was like www, while the people now renewal area, yeah. I knew the end, but I knew I did know some of the people and I knew like I had yeah you're grownup, probably like a mile away from there. It was at that time was this area called the nations. It was pretty gnarly area in in nashville and in and now it's like coffee shops and it's more, it's gentrified. It's like
weird feeling about that together, the gentrification of nashville yeah? I know it's upsetting to me, but it's also, you know it's like one of the things I think about all the time. It's not just nashville, but it's like a lot of it's a lot of everywhere, and so it's a difficult thing. Nashville is that interesting because it's become a more I live there. Now it's become more nevermore gentrified, it's like country, flavoured where I know where it was like. As a kid growing up, it was all rednecks and, like all luxury yeah, and that's just like what it was. It was like that it was like was priya. You know it was authentic. It was like there wasn't really much to do and it was like that now you have like restaurants and all this stuff and like yeah, but it's like country flavored, right I mean like, and also a country flavor on two levels. There's like this sort of, like all the kind of old guard tourist country. Now you get a bunch of young people who have been like comforted and there, the with that's the worst to me like that,
They have hipster element where you were last night that american stuff right, like I actually they hated. like it yet well that, like a what does the exact feelings can help me identify mind. As I understand it, there seems to be a craven drew up a dizzy. That is an urgent largest hate It is funded obnoxious, like other denham crap like ain't in the gas asian. Like all, was done when banjos and stuff I just like, I just can't, into I, and also like, I feel like there's. This is weird thing about when people talk about like without getting like specific specific. This is weird about like heritage and in its like a kind of coded lank like vernacular to me this, like things like heritage, judge, our like it in terms of americana yeah, we're on just like are not exactly sure like like.
Yes, you know what I mean like. I don't really even listen to music anymore that have like lyrics. I don't even want to hear people saying anything into I just like listening, like mostly like electronic music, I also like reno rap music, pretty much, but I try listen like the most like the the most like debased right, like the least kind of profound, just cause. It's demanding ideas that I just don't really want to hear any eyesight? Weird in my mind, I don't want to hear any one likes like talking asking for her like journey my legs like strange, like when I get it when I was younger, I used to like really like a lot of that stuff. Unlike and now it's almost like, I don't I kind of shy away from it. I like I would it's like. I don't really want like here. Anyone like talking anymore yeah in the in the in with music. I I more what I like now is things that it's like more and I I guess I I I might gravitate toward things that are more like sensory or more like atmosphere.
atmospheric or things that make me lake even with them reason like just like in general like my way, and I feel I you know what I'm trying to do with things and it's more of a it's more like a kind of post articulation or something it's like beyond. Just like. Alright, I'm I, for whatever reasons feel more pulled toward it's something that's like more of like an emotion or more light and energy. What's right or something that's more like inexplicable, right and so like with music, it's like! I don't you know I just for whatever reason like like listening things that are kind of an emotion like are other more detached right on going series like in film to think in in doing having that craving create feeling in almost like a sort of a poetic way, actually and otherwise you seem d like to do things better: jarring yeah,
There is definitely a your way in is to punch yeah, yeah, yeah yeah reality night. There's not a lot of you easy going? No? No! No! No! No! I don't really like, yeah! I don't really. I don't you know, so I really want to just I've always just kind of wanted to like go go for it right and, like I always just felt like wanting to just attack. You know what I mean like in attack in a in a interesting way, but I always wanted. The films or the artwork wherever it is to have us ex gonna, more sensory component, where it just like a like, goes through You mean like in this way. It's like it. It is something that like washes through you or that attacks you and then it disappears
where I am yeah because, like I don't really have anything that like to say you don't want purely what do you have to say? I don't really have anything like specific to, like I dunno like a point yeah the film there's not like one general point. I might never been interested really myself and making a kind of specific statement. It's more about a feel. I've always felt like Work is more about and generally about us, I a feeling well when you do like when you do something like you know: julien donkey boy, which is about that's a schizophrenic one right yep, so that that's a portal into almost yeah, fucking thing. You want right right and maybe there's like if something says, somebody is more of the residue of sure of it by you find a way and that the adoring and then you have this freedom hours more like you just wanted to. I I want you to feel like you're there. join me in the eye like like, is right right, bye, bye,
virtue of it that that's the magic of it. Is that telling somebody to their, but because of what's going on. the connection becomes. Very media is its causing this It's also like a kind of control, chaos and I've right, idea that it's ok to be lost at some time at some points in it, things don't always have a beginning, a middle and an end. Hardly ever, and sometimes it's like nice for things just to exist just and and just to kind of like, like I said, like hit you and hack you and go, you don't always have to completely be able to. Like understand it right, you know what I mean like sometimes it's nice to have things like in somewhat inexplicable or something that kind of its. Why I was never really interested in like this idea of like true truth. This obsession with truth and in and in art the truth in film or truth in art. That was always, like truth, is kind of for me at least boring, and you want things that
are the elevate right. Din transcends, nothing is more like a kind of like a poetry or a gun. I got a sensory top. You know him, you had a mandate nor like goes beyond his idea of truth and becomes a kind of transcend it its own thing, the big exactly so like. That's. Why even to go back to the reversing diverse, sometimes I'll, just make things it won't put out yet because I haven't because, like I other phyllite they're, not done yet, I'm not ready for them to be out yet or they don't really have. There's no rhyme a reason for their existence right wing who? What? What was your relationship, How did the relationship with burner hurts oxter so hurts? I was like own cause, it sounds, are younger, influenced by him on a year, or so like one of my yeah, he's like almost like a leg is a huge, This is a person and as a as a kid growing up as movies meant a lot to me amusement.
To me a lot which ones in particular were the most I mean I mean I love most of his almost all his films, but the ones that I I really were just It was most blown away, but I was always the bruno s movies. Were you know I I I the kinski films, I love, but Bruno S, movies were just stroke. Zach was a huge deal, every man for himself and god against all like those and even like even dwarfs started. Small and land of silence and darkness, like the those films, were really to see that type of That kind of like weird mishmash of like fear of of of truth and fiction, and then realized that, like that that there was a potion to it that neither one of them on their own really was a big deal, but together there was something like really. You know trying to figure out what was true and what wasn't right right and then you're most likely that he almost like wow you're left
something like some so grand you know like so and what happened was like he Actually it was good with come out. He had the sky Tom Luddy ran the san francisco for authoritarian film festival showed him us before came out, hurts aga a had screamed of the film for him, and I was sitting in my house and I picked up the phone and it was it's Oregon. He like he was like I have just seen your movie? It is the most audacious debut he was like. You were the last, foot soldier in the army. He is like? You must come out to san francisco and I I jumped on an airplane. I went out san francisco dollars for like twenty three or something to import that time, and he was living in
Francisco in yeah was a huge deal for me and just cause. It was like one of those people was like severe like heroic, yeah, yeah and yeah, and then we became friends and he was you know, started he was in so I started casting him in my films and and just like. It's oh yeah, he's just he's a he's kind of just a for a good friend, yeah yeah. You talked to him pretty regularly. Yeah I mean the thing about. Vernor is he's like really. He really does is like work. Work ethic is insane always working, so it's like putting on movies his movies and he's like putting on plays, I mean he's directing, opera is a he's. I really like you does things like that. I p maloney nobody's teaching schools he's like yeah. I mean it's crazy when I was summer were cat when I was like it, what do location scouts for some breakers in and I would like to out, we were in likes and I think we're looking unlike visits, sir
soda or something like scouting colleges, just random schools there, and then I would go to like there would be like this place called ringling college, which was started by like ringling brothers. Are you a clown college, oncology therein they were like there will. I heard saw just taught a coup it's here and you realize what they're like yeah he's on the board and they're like what and they were like yeah. He edited his film it. He added his last movie here and you're like really and then he'd go to the other school there's another, there called new college and they were. Heard songs on the board. Here he just hardly, and you like, like in sir. You know your somewhere flora just like random, but he's like that like he's like everywhere is kind of like he's like there's like ten of him. Do you take anything from them, get it do you have any desire to work like that is different from me like I need my. I need time between the films, because a movies especially take so much out of me so like it takes me like I do.
it's like always. A film feels like I've. Never had I've really never had I've director. Friends, have it easy experiences with films? I never really had an easy experience. Why I dunno there are always maybe two types of movies that I make, or maybe it's just myself, not ever look I'm like a greedy director. I always feel like. I need more. We don't feel satisfied like I don't feel like I'm. You know like I'd. Never have enough time to do all the things that I want to do so I'd just like always railing up against it. You known Amelia, it would make. It makes me nervous to be on said and be comfortable, which doesn't really happened so much like when people alarms are. We will continue to go that movie. Look. They was a lot of fun. I don't even know what fun
on movies. Is I don't really you know what I mean like I paint and I enjoyed that now in a completely different way and and that's fun for me, because that's my own time, like something I'd like direct and I'm away from people I can do for the movies is like a have to gear up. It's like going to through a kind of war right and in some ways and spring breakers that have that ended up doing. That was great. I mean it it it did like it. I think it was just as far as it's It went beyond anything I'd done before and in structurally it was a little different yeah it's it was a total ends and it is exciting and I was like trying to get 'em like tr, getting closer to where what I've always wanted to do, which hopefully I'll be able to do with the next film, which is what we'll, just like a complete like sensory bombardment. Just like a a total awash of just
but with any story, yeah yeah, no, that's a definite store. Now, there's a story. No, it's like it, but I always say it's like the narrow. The way I feel about storytelling now, it's more like liquid has to do more. If I can energy right like so ice, it's like a liquid narrative. It's like things that I'm I'm pulled more by it's it's more about like a kind of energy or feeling so time everything it's like. I missed a definite story. It's like super pulse of pretty highly violent. It's kind of revenge movie takes place in miami. This than usual is nearly writing there. Already a suited in january our it's written. Like the gaff running it together here,
if anyone attached to it yeah, I believe ceo is going to be really I just Alba was going to do it. I think Pacino has got a part in it and then yeah, I think, there's a bunch of but a bunch of people bra pants and I think that's fucking exciting. It's beneath you have the lead. Yeah yeah he's one there's like two him in idris. That makes fucking sense. Man yeah there are other great, but he says one of my favorites yeah he's one of one seems very selective too, which is kind of nice. Yeah he's you don't see him too often and when you are like eyes here, I've been wanting to worry them for a really long time. This is like the part. This was like. I kind of like wrote this part for him, so it was like I mean premature, my fair him very old men were I like really just like the best right here. It's goes to a great totally and he
and did you guys meet around it and he's in he's all yeah? I mean I known him cause. I would almost did something together a while ago and like I hadn't known him since, like the probably like the late nineties or something so, but I hadn't like I had never had a thing that could fit like. I never had like the right part for him, and this is like really, like this is the thing when now, when you talk about liquid narrative about an assault on the senses like when you like, with which bring breaker so what are you thinking about when in your prenup movie together. I know you ve got the enacting force in franco and you've got. You know, he's going to the wall with that character, but like what's what's the energy that you saw it as the creator pushing through that whole movie? Is it I I just really like with that film it was. I had this idea. I was like looking at all this like coed like porn and stuff right, I'm unlike he's gone wild sure yeah, just like I was like. I was kind of china using it.
For likes the idea for some awesome art. I was gonna artworks and things that I was was was contemplating and like I had, I had like lots of oh she's, like pictures of like lights debauchery spring break debauchery. Others, like me, no kids on the beach, puking and kegs in like this all the stuff and I started to see there was like this kind of inner and when I looked at all the imagery prayed collected stuff from mecca for a couple years. Were elected altogether. I start to see like colours and like things, and there was more like inner kind of cool if, like more things like that, I thought were interesting. There were speaking to me, Cars of the skies, the the bikini. the white sand, Now that world was like you know, I was like, and I also remembered it from growing up in the south spring break was had been this big thing and like culturally, and and so I just had an image honestly of like girls, the whole loser.
It's like a dream type of images, girls and bikini, with ski masks like the like that, like thugs use like those like ski masks and light, I I had only the girls and we gave robbing tourists and now really like girls? Bikini and guns on, the beach were end from there I I I started kind of I was like if that what it really is that simple like, if that's going to, if that, were to happen in real life? How would that happen type of thing? Something like it? Sometimes that's the way that you had an image and you retrofitted to store a lot of the movies. That's the way it happens. For me, it's more like you become obsessed with like or I become obsessive, like a specific image is like one or two things that I for. I don't even really know why I want to see them past the point of just wanting them to exist, and then I start to create a story or some type of a narrative around
At so, you would be like well, if I'm going to get to this point, how would how would it begin generally mean like? When did you come up with the franco character, where what I think, Probably that was just the natural thing grown up like white dudes, with cornrows on the bus going to school on the bus in the south was like very you know. It was like a real kind of a kind of a classic american architect did some guy plainly that he was the guy think they're yeah that there were like they were like a couple of people that were saying that there is any This is a really just bay wasn't based on anything specific he's done all amalgamation of a lot of right. There are lots of different. It's like you know, a lot of different guide, the doubt that is the kind of person and and then at the same time we know franco's process. What that was like very specific, is more like cause he's so busy. I would just. I would just send him for a year, I think, probably just clips of all of things audio clips. I like the way this guy speaks.
He would, and he was right, pete great peace. Like I, I realized in like a video clip like girls, in an inner earth up I have an eleven getting in a fight that will likely go on for like five minutes. I just like I dunno. I just think this. This somehow relates to your character and you'd be like and I would just send my getting that fell. Tangentially tangentially connect yeah or you know, I'm emotionally connected to to him that load up yeah, exactly get it in and I never to be honest, really knew if he was even getting it all yeah. Just like you know past the point of just like cool like I never knew if it was like. And then, when it was time to do the film we pretty much just like, walked off that got out of there. Like I got to the airplane got into this. We had the costumes and the whole thing ready had been talking to him for awhile when he'd come he'd come down. You know big thing for me with the movies like I would try.
I I spend a lot of time even before I make the film even before prep, just like what alone in the place I'm driving around. Just like looking at locations like trying to like cause. The tone of the movies is like such a the audience in the film is in some ways as big as important. For me as the anything else, I want you to like a really liked the way things look and feel men, so a lot of it is like me getting lost in places and like the geography of places and and Cause you feel like in movies all the time the energy is kind of like a tangible thing, like you could tell, when a movie just stops when a moot, when we, I can always tell when a director just picks locations based on what would look like a locations, personal photograph, the first photos of this looks good. What's there
like I. I hate that what it seems like you're, you're working the opposite way. It seems like a a a lot of directors, want to totally control the environment, and you want to let the environment have a bigger effort will also like you feel like they are. Then it's like. I always felt like the environment. Is awesome the movie, so it's like it's as much a character as the as you know, as the actual characters sure so and so with franco he would come in. I and honestly we would just get in a car and he would just I would just turn the music on and we would drive through neighborhoods- wouldn't even really speak that much and- and I would just say this- is where you grew up. This was your house. It wasn't really like that. I was just making things up or just be like this, where you grab. This is where you sold. You know your first dime bag. This is the pier that you robbed you're, forgetting this was like, where your dad got shot. This is, and I just kind of like that and and just like,
and then just like. Let the air come into. The car is breathed in soak. It up look at the way, the lights in the gas stations and an dues plain dominoes and backyards. Just like you know, just like we didn't Do those guys this feel yeah, I'm sure they thought were super like isolated korea hockey was: did he have the corners at that point or this before that was before. I think that was like, and did you feel that that you know in his performance that he had absorbed everything you wanted him to yeah, because it's like an absorb because even like, without my expectations with direct with actors, is a different thing. It's not a specific thing I want to give. getting it like. I want to be surprised right, so you want to. I want a load them up on as much stuff as I can details. Look sounds like that and then put it
side and then and then walk away and like let them take it to another place. That's always what you dream, or at least what you write you want to be surprised, because I don't have an endgame with them other than just to be great. I never have like a specific that it's never like ultimately like like this is it I don't even know it's more of an abstract idea. You just want them to be like I did on fire me. I mean like you just wanted to like to be to be great and you hope that you can and they can inspire them with the character with the idea of who this person is Then they go unlike they invite and, as is always the way forward, even acting it's almost like, with acting in directing actors and self, it's more like when you when you become believable right, when you become the person that you're supposed to be when you believe that that person is really who he is. then there is really no right or wrong upright no like when you are that character, you become the human every
single, just everything things becomes real. It either is, but it's either good or bad or authentic or not. Or its exciting or not excite. So you get so you can be authentic and by not you're, not fingers. Do you think there's? No, you can't make any mistakes if you become the characters, actually, but there is a moral universe you can't make risk once you become the character, but you can be a ghost will be exciting right. I don't even mean good and bad like morally, I just like to watch. You can be exciting or boring like you could still be authentic and awful yeah. I think. Do you know what I mean like, and I think you can be inauthentic and end ex and exciting shirt like Gary coleman's character in in true romance, or something like that? Yeah. That's, not really an authentic character, I guess I got really heightened version, but it's so thoroughly. Enjoyable were so watches,
it there's so much magnetism, and it's such this kind of creation in the swirl you're like just taken by it. You don't even question it yeah. It's like it's like logic, sometimes I'll get in arguments with them, or debates with actors about like logic in movies right, Why would I do that yeah? Really? Why you do it and did it and I understand why they want to know because it informs their character or that I may need to sense, like I'm always thinking like I wanted? You wanna go a little bit beyond just like logic here, like you, don't, unlike what you robbing this house at five in the morning? Is five years have posed five in the afternoon? doesn't matter like. I know if you're thinking of the other on his you're thinking about that logic, the movies not working like you want something. I just do it because it looks good we're here. To me my wise it there was there because it looks good and it feels good and in its like something amazing but passed that I don't care about the law. The rise essentially like the lodge
gov, it sure will that. Why mean I think by that, by using narrative the way you use it. I think gay. So people like viewers should be more forgiving in the sense like you're right if they're saying that, could never happen here than than youth. You failed yet eyes because it's not the kind of movie or maybe in exactly and star wars can never happen. Gee I mean I mean I don't know it is a strange later and I fear that even rooms near dies and boot when you present something it its extra tricky when you presenting things in the real world as if they were real men, there also heightened it becomes like a whole other well shit. This, movie sounds amazing. Miami as a back yeah, yeah yeah, I've been living in miami for while so it's like good stories,
down there too yeah. Isn't it I love it. I mean my mother lives in hollywood. Florida yeah, it's close to it, but I used to have this weird judgment of florida, but now I'm sort of like this is the weirdest place in the fucking world. Yeah. It's weird. It is that's it's almost it's own. I kind of pro I would I I live between. I have a daughter now and she, and in the summer zephyr and my wife, when we all like, live there and do what part of miami beach like we live in, like the mid beach. Close to south beach, and like god, we have like a house there and, like I probably would just move there like you know full time, but like there's something also like mix nervous about the idea of like only being there. If you know what I mean like, I could just end up in some like weird vortex. Do you know what I mean like I like to retreat yeah. Like you know, you know it
it is. I dunno I enjoy it, because it's just one country and it definitely works in it's own logic. It's it's more like latin. It's one more thing, and I kind of like into like the rhythms of that place, but also, I guess being I liked the way this I do I'm affected by the way things look, architecturally like the lights and and palm trees. Like I love those things they make me really happy. So I kind of just like ended up there, so you're really living there yeah hard time, yeah, half and half between nashville and you've got a house in nashville. Was nice working just leave it at that? I am okay, that's good enough! I'm shooting the movie! There's! No! It's it's! It's it's great! I hate winters. Well yeah though winter nashville is that bad yeah, it's pretty rare, it's not like new york, but pretty yeah. It's pretty Where did you get older and you can make choices where you so right now to do that anymore? yeah, and I believe it is like the exiled. I think this now uselessness, lincoln nice thing about exactly, but also its.
Like I continued to my I thought, like the suffering from the cold was ok It was a good thing right, not only mean, though you are like aids, part of like the whole. I got. I came carers here like new for two days of the fuckin winter as like? This is good. For today Is that it's a reminder? I do miss season sometimes that's why I lay you have seen on diet. In miami, not really the known ya mean I'll bet you mean like the winter, it's pretty nice and then some words. Really. How have you been season all your eyes, you don't have an easy time. Just becomes this weird thing when I've seen time is woods. The scary, poor and California is like that. It's like we're eloquent. I just discovered you don't even like every day it's the same, doesn't even rain for like a year, just go a little weird and you can't really if you grew up around seasons. It's like a strange thing. You can't eat because you don't have your judge life right based on your time, based on a little bit. I think that's normal, and so that's the scary part
I was busy out there you're just like, while it's all like, maybe with all just one day exactly how many years work here so one other one, other question about a like: we're talking about technology and and and and killing story, anyways, because there's no one can get lost anymore Did you ever shewed anything on on film everything we do only film I have this thing lay I she mostly on shoot features mostly on film. And but I also don't really I also I would don't necessarily have a pure legions only towards that for that, but I I feel a voice conflict. It there that that video film, that vhf is all whatever its there almost like instruments. They have a tone years like a place for them there like a day, like a sound, but your argument now I talk to her tat events gilligan because he's
you shot all breaking bad on film because he wanted that feeling not an end. invite, but he was someone date. They did the coke beyond the co. Pepsi testily did what have they? Someone did the test with him. Where he had some editor say we can do exactly the same yeah, it's a that's it that's what they How did you on every film, so I shimmer all my movies on everyone a shot on. I should only use comb for for the for the movies except when I made a movie that was a dogma movie that we shot originally on video and ensure and which ones at that was julian irreverent. the young, the the mars rancheiras was ok, yeah yeah. No, that was that was that was part of it and the but film it is like a big toe. It is like that is like a big argument. I pretty much would like only for these last couple of movies. I pretty much sp won't make the movie.
I can shoot at anville, but doing I don't you think they feel like it, because, because you're a guy that wants to give more more more that it imposes limitation tat it it it in well. In some ways it really depends how you look at them idea that like because you can, because you can chew on limb in a way that is unlimited using video that that's better and I feel like. I don't necessarily agree with that. I don't think just because you can. I actually feel like there's no kind of this season making with a lot of that type of like directing, I feel like you just leave the camera on you, just let it go whatever happens happens and then you like trying to make sense of it in the edit like I. I liked the idea of like being forced to decide having a limited time it makes me again. Maybe it makes me more uncomfortable because I know that
The the mag is going to run out soon or whatever it is, or you're burning film. It's money, there's a magic to it, even when they they always make the argument where you say, like nobody, notices anymore right, they always say like, like we usually say well audience can't tell the difference between film and not in other mediums, but I I like, I don't think that's true. I think I think. Maybe they don't. I think maybe they can articulate it, but I think film it's a kind of it's something. There's something's there's a psychology to like the grain structure and there's an emotional component to it. That's maybe you aren't aware of so as your as you're watching it. You know what I'm saying. So it's like it's something that again it's more it's working on you in a way that
not even shorter, working right like I, I don't like the idea of like treating video or like making things that we can make. This look like right, but then why not just use but really look out, so there's a There is no way you can create. I think, if I understand correctly, you can create effect. Similarly of of what the film looks like, but the actual grain on film has a chaos to it. That can't be immediately replicate, and this is the truth in it and is a truth in it that you don't it's also just something that there's a kind of they're like a magic in that dissidents of that, and that at the fog of analogue here is like this thing to it that you know arm visit, that's more like alchemy of your home, to like me, like sitting down with an app putting on like you know. This is sixteen millimeter app right and to make it look like right, like that. Well, maybe it alike in a superficial way. It will do that, but
it's it's different like like actual like thirty five millimeter. It is like even sixty moment her and sony miss milner it. There is like a weird magic to it sure your light on I always say that, like film is like romance, or I've always felt that, like there's like a romance to film and that like video, it's like reality, and I also liked the idea of like the actors. I also like it when the actors think that they have a limited amount of time to do it and that they have to. I like that. There's like a decisiveness to it. You'd have to be in the moment in his forces a point of view in a way that, like I hate this whole like modern photography, this thing where it's just like you leave the Amor on it becomes all about post production, where you just like, leave the cameras on forever. You shoot like for two hours and then you pick like the like. You know you send an editor to go back and you pick the best light
Where is no real, it there's no point of view. There are no like right. There's nothing like exciting about right there. You know, there's no sense of risk. It becomes like the corporate decision of the it works here. Do you know what I mean? I come from marginalization too and you're like making the studios happy, because you aren't giving them all these decision all these choices. I don't want lot of choice. Yeah. I don't necessarily I want to like you know I just like the feeling of being connected to that to that like having started out making movies in that way and using that now it's still it's. It feels right to me good also with with film it I asked on every movie I feel like it could be the last movie that I get to do to you. You know what I mean. There's not many labs anymore. Yeah, it's really difficult! Now. You know it costs a lot more money. You don't get to see. You know. Sometimes it's like you have to really wait before you can see the no, do you added on the film to or doubted that would be crazy. I mean people
it's like no. I could never do that again. No, no, no! No he's sitting there cutting now. No I'm not even up it's not anything even necessary about being a purist or anything because I still will use other things, but it's more just like no to stand as a magic to from its undeniable really like to think there would be. The title for the new movie can be handed out. The trap. Ok cool was great talk newman each man of arson, an okay that was interesting as it was a talk about film, unlike I've had before, and it was great talking to harmony and great meeting and then you can go to wtf pod dot com, specifically the calendar section, to see my dates. I got dates coming up in ireland. And then the london and you can go to deputy five dot com for all? Your devotee of PAS needs get a little linky to just copy dot. Get on the mailing list. I write a thing than a right it today
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Transcript generated on 2022-09-13.