A guy I blood's do those. How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the box there is, what the buccaneers, what the fuck legs, I am mark marin. This is deputy of welcome to the show in a minute I have. bob odin kirk here in the garage and I've dave cross on the phone to talk about their recent death. Mr show like netflix adventure, that's up forever that are up with the idea just called with bob and David. It's streaming on network you can watch all the episodes theirs. I believe in our long making of special directed by lance bang, who directs everything everything that we're all involved in on in this little world of alt, and in other things hammered d write hammer bobcat, but yeah bob and david in here and a second. I were cap when the

recap when, from these seminal, all rock band Yola tango here momentarily he'll, be here I've been meaning to to IRA for awhile or he's been meaning to talk to me. We had some stuff to work out. There was a not bad blood, but he I was, I think I I was a little hard on him. A little bit. I've known him on time, but not well within the same circles. For a bit I need to tell you you don't already notice, you do know it did thursdays, giving, so on that day we will be running a live. W e f that I did it pod fest, with radio legends Fraser Than Jim lad talk into the timers the broadcasters, the guys who, without which this would not be. boy, you gotta pay your respects to the dude that did it for reels on the tour stream legends jimmy still on serious bracer psmith still on the air here and terrestrial also do and stand up but Jim lad a and important A voice in radio

through the seventys and eightys and ninetys to this day. So that's exciting, but be talking to you directly on thanksgiving and generally I talk a little bit about thanksgiving ways: go going with me. So I know we're leading to how these but here's one thing I never quite pick up on an island get this, but every year, like a couple weeks before thanksgiving, I start feeling irritable ice. Gettin snappy, I start you're, just gonna lose in it a little at my friends strangers in my car I mean I do any ways, but I can't quite put my finger on it. Yet I feel like like I'm, not grounded oil fucked up in the head, and I You know what it is a first and then, like a few days before I go to my mother's for thanksgiving it fuck. It hits me the realisation that, like oh of course, this is the beginning of it. This is the beginning of the family holidays for a lot of us, I mean some of us do thanksgiving some of us. Don't so much do christmas whatever this is it so, of course,

I'm feeling a little squarely because what's happening is me, inner self is prepared. or resisting going to the source: that's it to the source now what it, whatever whoever still live your life or whoever you spend time with if its parental, it's the source, It's not just a biological source, but the emotional source, a psychological sourced, a metaphysical source, the philosophical source, it's all of it, it's a source of who we are that weird thing is that whatever shortcomings, your parents had as a kid innately ye guided and yourself rebuilt some sort of that sort of. routine around it emotionally and it's not a healthy thing, that's where we go into life with that's what were given, all right and some of us spend a lifetime trying to temporary trying to manage it, trying to fix it just to tweak those the actions and interaction source as not to become the worst

our parents is just a reality. After certain point to me, I'm fuckin fifty two years old, I dunno how old you are when we have to go to source all that tempering in restraining an inner work that we may have done. Our entire life is threatened. It's so it's freak out so before you gotta go of course you're like god. What's the matter with me, if we're going, you're gonna go deal, and we We know that the only person or people that can crumble their structure that we have built in resistance, although temporarily the only ones can do it. The deck and just sort of within seconds just brought through the walls of our little castles, our little emotional fortresses, the only people that can do that is our family. just do it without knowing one doing it, because they need to do it because they want to connect with that party you that to react and you might do it. You might react. You invite!

end of it, usually I do least once yeah how's offer what day days and then just boom. I turn into the fucking horrible child or whatever. I was the angry shot way. It'll happen, sometimes just further seconds and I'll and I'll grab it I'll pull back but it happened but mine. I don't have to happen because your ears, what I'm I'm starting to realise and ocean, thou does share this worthy, maybe I'll make sense, maybe one its temporary whatever is going to happen down. There is temporary and you just have to sort of fortify. You know just just know: what's gonna happen, you know no you're gonna get down there. All your buttons are gonna. Be pushed of that that one dish make that you don't like they're gonna make it again that one person that cousin I brother that aunt that uncle that mother, that five they're going to be there it's gone yet. Did it probably the the gun trigger your man and here's? What I'm going to try to do, maybe

you can do it too. Now. Look I get along with my mom and we're doing alright, but here's what I'm gonna try to do, I'm going to try to find the the the good side alright, because we're in older and the bottom line is they can't hurt us like they used to because their older? So maybe it might be time to see appreciating that that they will be, around forever. I mean we might not? Who the hell knows he's gonna go first, show me a dirty war parents in that that that absence is powerful and horrible and sad, but the bottom line is theirs. There there's usually some good points to these people, because we have those two yummy. We we got the good stuff. two, so so it's one. We focus on that. Can we do that together, which try to focus on the good sides of arson I was in. Maybe you Noah to pay a little homage to our folks for for giving us a good what may be the it's just a sliver, but but still, let's try to focus on that which tries

buying that love. That was once pure that we as for our parents and for our family, maybe tap and that a little bit, if it's not too scary, and it won't leave us to vulnerable and out an ear Here's the bottom line, for your own and everyone else's benefit have a fuck insane. Humor about it all right. They can't hurt us anymore. It's just gonna be annoying edward maybe see part of us if we don't like, but let's try to laugh at right. They care they cared anymore right right. They can't write amateurs. We they can't right right, it's gonna, be ok, I think, above all else, what we have to remember that we are all fragile. and ass we get older were even were even more joy in many ways and I think that if you can't respect them as people, let's try to respect the fragility.

of their physical and emotional situation were about to enter and any some good food or complain about food that your time but whatever you gonna do with just what she tried to do it. Ok, let's just we can do it. Ok, we can do it right, alright or now It was fun cause. I you know bob and David reached out to me that the thing- and they want me to maybe hang out and talk a little bit about the thing, but it's always good to see them because we all started out together and I- and I'm always happy makes me nervous. David was, The phone babo sitting right in front of me make me nervous. So again the sketch show bob and David streaming on networks and you. Watch out the episodes there's an hour long making of special directive the one and only lance bangs, but like right now we're tank.

with me and bob odin kirk and David cross on the phone in you hear me, it's really thin. I barely hear you- now. Can Europe now get that's great yeah? Oh girl was one button. This dolby he needed to press the dolby button, can hear bob I can Ok, I have a kind of butner little improve his jokes hell. This is already starting. Well, I would be the David cross, but that is exactly the kind of excitement and energy I wanted from. Even to let me let me try to set it up. Bob odin kirk is here in David, crosses on the phone and I'm here to mediate. Some sort of friendship problem now by the market

drag us into your fucking nightmare of a world. That's all point of this pod gas raises more marked. drag. People under his nightmare Did you I got exactly? I have recently read that you interviewed lorn. I lauren come to your grudge now. They go to him. I went to the esta now but he did not want to sit with me twice. I did two hours all my questions were answered, the wanted. Yes, it will. You twice Why do you think go away? He had to do it, he didn't have to do it. I went over there and it was a monday night and we talk for an hour and then he had to go to dinner. He said: well, I'm still in the town I mean if you want to come back, come back tomorrow and I went back the next night and we sat for an hour and then fifteen minutes after we turned off the recorders. We talked about things I mean I could probably call em right now. You want upon David, get lorn on my worry expecting Bobby bureau. I look at you seriously ask if you remembered you meeting you we wouldn't be,

four be through the entire story, as I remembered it did. He did. He say remind me again, no, I want again he said you ve been here before the scene of the crime. What's the crime, I have to listen where'd, you just come from with the what he would do you cranky about where you turn it on me for no, no, no, I just hilarious to read that you asked him about meeting you I'd to hold for half an hour and he remember He remembered any addressed every one of my issues and we I we left friends, maybe I'm so that that virtually a class or you can you can in a lifetime address every one of your issue the specific ones with more and he did all right with I'd by the time I got there was in his angry. They used to be you know it, but I didn't at the end that I was available to audition again, if, if need be, You guys, do you made more things, yeah, it more for former half hours for networks. We did make em for netflix yeah. I saw a billboard on sunset,

yeah right near where my billboard is for my upcoming yes budget on epics stuff, we're all in now. Yes read this answer, billboard club, you get Oh you, who I had in your yesterday, Dave todd haines, who spoke highly of your own ginsburg for him, the young. mank. That was awesome. I I you know I do very about him except for his work, and he not a bit of a cooler It's down to earth unpretentious awesome guy. He he she was fantastic. I think he's a genius as he got a new movie coming out, yeah carol, it's called carol yeah. It was stunning that movie it made me cry: it's a love story, with deep? Do you cry bob here? You know you gotta die for me to cry so now. I don't cry a lot but he's sure lightyear when more than I used to meet her dude. Is it our age, ass, a fucking, ass and getting old inured to pipe serve cracking

but the little real thing assembling a joke, but I'm an airport, a porch airplane crier. As well. I can, if I have a few drinks and I noticed the start about fifteen years ago, when I was hearing up at a trailer or it'll. Do me I'll feel too? Oh, my god, you got a bad. What's where there was an. I believe you, by giving europe a commercial, is solid. yeah and has a good punch the end were the other guy gets the medicine or whatever the house gets built on very sad, moved bonds. I don't think it's a bad thing, real thing, an airplane, for you know when you're up at a certain altitude, and ah it's a it's a real thing. I will tear up listening to us. You know a cat power song. nice, ridiculous bob. What Mr Leinen, that neither the embarrassed about I'm. I guess I'm always an airplane mode. I've learned

Am I cried trying to fix the oven cash? I couldn't get the goddamn now to go on there and it was slow, Just ended now that within this fuckin world, you all we're all trying to kill yourself so that no one I just wanna you're gonna get to go on now who's that it was it to do more. Mr shows there I call MR show, while anyway The idea was both the bars to do something to celebrate the twentyth anniversary of. Why are the first, mr share Okay and we were going to do a live tour yeah, and then we realized how fucking hard that is. We are a lot of work. Yeah, it's a lot of work. just make for new half hours with new comedy and then more people get to see it and call it. Why are you going to our right and our people call you and go mark? You are you coming to my town, yeah and you go. I am

Realizing I was young. I was there last night right and I go. I never saw anything you can see the ninety tweets yonder fate. I propose right and media putting a fire undesirably here, so we decided just let's try to do shows and we didn't know what it would be. We knew odious It's comedy, or at least something very silly and we were surprised at all. The actors from a mister Sherwin I had to do it and could do it, and we were surprised that all the writers wanted to do it and could do it. So that was a shock and we didn't expect it. I think you underestimate the fact that might have been the best time to their lives. I definitely underestimate Well, not a lot of these extremely only had to clear their calendars. And also lino double up on their work and their owner to participate. But people were still very did the ethic and with great and did everyone get along, total yeah really ellen he's a lad, so their egos were

so either built up or completely destroyed, decimated by the last sixteen years There was none of that. Like me, get to do my dear, you changed my idea. You know people were really cool, people like scott argument and paul tomkins of produce and made their own staff and had there just there done they did it and they're, not all wrapped up in eighty set making some fun and ryan with their posts and was young rate, he's gotta, kids so yeah that he's gotta work a little stuffing out of him and do you know what I mean yeah, so everyone was happy and cooler and happy to be there, and I mean people like tom, Kenny and jill talley, who are very busy people with jobs, turned into more of a reunion than we ever intended to be, but were happy within and for us, its new comedy, and if we do more and we'd like to do more, we just

He going down this road of whatever we want to do would necessarily be even like what we just did or asked dave, though dave day bob seems to be speaking for they did you actually want to be there yet I don't we've. They are being l a where we're at we're at the point where we can be for each other, because we listen to each other answers. the same question over and over again, though, even if you know Bob doing an interview even say you know, I'm he gave it up this and I felt this way in a year absolutely speaks book. but I mean I know you're on the phone you anyway just sit. There are nodding quietly eyes, no truth, the weight are you? Can you not see me? No, its not working what you have a camera set up. Yeah, I have a the old hassle, bad camera. I think taking photos and then down savvy develop, got light

one already I ain't! So it's not it's not working you're, not seeing the the photo that I'd like to see a house of blood photo. That's like the two and a half by two and a half format. The square pictures it's a while you I'd always here they kind but who they car. This looks like you trying to work the camera as a good picture. Yeah, ok, so can see him, I'm dying. My appreciated. I appreciate you put not the ever takes a lot of work to do that, but what's here what's a form? is the same format, same style. As you know, we just it ll so little like MR show, but if you watch it closely and you don't need to please just enjoy it, it just doesn't have the same structure, as MR show by, but the sensibilities are there in that ninety nine percent of yeah, what's better like it marked because, where the same people, nine percent that, but like did did, did you where you think that your comedy has changed over sixteen year? Yes,

got it. Has you re? Do you remember ever seeing me sixteen years ago on our pills? I konrad purpose. After you d, better yeah yeah People enjoy me now back, then it is hard for everybody, Well, it's not as easy for me to change, because I was good back. That's ok, That's all I ever that's true. You know you could actually go the other way it could get worse. For you absolutely. I was just going to say that you back, you know, cause cause marketing go along one way and them so long, a you're like thirty years guys. You know my fate in your death, a force of like angry negativity. and you can use you know. We were all like a catch or something and go you'd be talking you're like oh wow. All of a sudden, I have a stomach ache. What oh, here's so mirror and you have that ability. You had tat hiv path, one guy

I have refocus those powers because, obviously that is powerful. Without without talking I caused illness and yeah, you could cause a stomach ache. Yeah you like. What do I, the one in perfect health? What's happening, yup with me, thirty years bodies out you're, asking thirty years me a data you in David known each other for third, I probably met him over thirty years ago, which is even more crazy. That's yeah, along with canada, he was in college, so that must have been all this shit it's over thirty. Yes, I was yet would only college earl really one year like our own annalisa. Are we use a fast me and Dave got married? Did you know that bob bob bob would see that for that man? That's swell I had nineteen best man what a manner and bob was number four. So okay, so there are four episodes all the work. the people that everyone loves. Are there the surprise of it all

Dave is not wearing cargo short scratch. The only difference, and I want to see it they say earlier years ago, so yeah, I'm not wearing them back to what I normally. Where would I like to where I was forced into a stupid naive, young decision, the signed a contract- and interesting question, though, when you are, you are making a point david years ago by wearing the shorts, which is I'm not going to dress up to be on tv I live in l, a hot mostly by a white box, eat you. For a long time. Now, that's how I still breath. I dress no comfort, I dont grass roots vial I it ran during the t v and I get if I live in a place that most of the year is ninety plus degrees. I know you can't do a reality, show them and wear the clothes you wear or listen, grandpa,

if you know it until I know there are still fighting that argument. I think the first thing we talked about wasn't really gonna, we're sure it's not that I know, but you my arm it was always in this- is kind of a purposeful. Our argument, when people do this David, pretend you can't hear us or we can't talk but can hear us when people do such things as wear shorts on national t v for their show that they've been waiting their whole life to get. They are making a choice as strong as wearing dressing sort of nice? You would say right: it's not like they're, not trying and therefore being authentic. They are being kind of going out of their way and its in that way, it's sort of I'm almost gonna say, is inauthentic as putting on a tuxedo

yeah. I I understand that logic. You know I'm saying right, you're sure that there was an aggressive resistance. doing what it always, rather that it takes more effort. It's there. You still with us Dave yeah yeah, I'm ready in my report. where'd you get it. I ve made my point. I think bob's done with his point. Well, what's left Actually, that's your time cause! No. Are you cue from your wardrobe? Is a joy joy that certain whether to do not be colorful or to not fair in order to address with a certain style from a certain decade right, it's all everything's, a choice and the only the only time it becomes an issue is when you're up against the the kind of a reasoning that says: hey, you shouldn't wear that you should wear things that don't

I dont notice and the the how how benign is it to where short, I mean all the choice and you can make that's really that I'm glad you william, I aviano, I think it's wonderful and hilarious. It makes a great stage picture. and- and basically you looking at two guys in your saved yourself. Oh one of them cares and air and that's a wonderful thing. It's a hell of a comedy dual cares and not in it and I d write go sure elementary school with our with our method like goofus and gallon Oh and you're, going to go on tour to comedy I I've talked to a mia. I think we are the same booking guy you're, going to go out and do some dates right, yeah, I'm working stuff out now had been for a little while I got this filled their surgery a couple weeks.

oh man. I worry that so areas only monitors how its funding and in its it's called my shoulders. It's one man show sons gland. Yet it's about shoulder surgery, I'll, be ages and any ties in with the summer jet supper get movement. goods than feminist message. You know I've approach it from the other way. I totally against it, and I hope, the whole text of the show is women shouldn't be allowed to drive. I'm I'm fine with all the other stuff they just write and be lacking. as you were you in a car accident where a woman was at fault in you hurt your shoulder ill, I it, Something are seen in movies tell This shows a commercial and

It'll be a great stand up hour. I can't wait to hear it and you did you and and bob Odenkirk who, whose performance in better call Saul, I thought was wonderful. You did you like it. No, I love it. I looked at and we are it. It's the show that really religiously watched and I can't wait for the the second series, but I would me too, and I m really be, are them and then come in and I go don't fucking say anything. It Brian would watch his said knight on and we all would start talking about it. But I would keep its wing while through those that commercial, they can't stay watching them up and having it DR reid twelve minutes and you were proud your friend. Were you proud your friend very very much so I was proud of him. Breaking bad? I remember the I was a bit late to that show and I have managed just a yeah. I think he's done a tremendous job and, and

and the show itself is amazing and well written. I love it suddenly gotten very quiet, the lobby eyes one when I watch it at first, because I dont like really liking bob. and so I go in with a certain amount of resistance right, bob's, the clown. I don't think he can handle a role like this yeah and then in that's what I thought right. I still think yeah no, but you are great, and I was like god dammit it's so good and he so good and a right in it. For me, I don't know actual you have your taken out? and I'm it's it's me that I would act like he's, not here, the meeting that he has the ability to make you not watch your friend yeah watching this guy wasn't character. and that is a remarkable feat, and you know what else is remarkable rabbit. Is you know a in you know Bob, and I know him not as well as you, but my relationship with him is different. Is that I felt bad for the character a little bit, and I don't

feel bad for bob at all. Can I can I admit it? It's over. It's not me it's my standing. I it's the guy's dancing me and then right when it's time to go, I always whispered. Is your use had just let you do that you just as one time did you finish: shooting a new on earth. I did we finished about a week ago The compliments both of you, gentlemen? I know first of all, let me just say I think you're both capable of the same exact kind of work, and it is all up to somebody to write it and let you do it I mean were as comics as comic actors were all about commitment right, commit all kinds of crime, you crazy shit and we hang in there with it and make it real, and the difference here is that these guys writing you know, really sensitive complex characters, and so they all that's only. Difference, I mean look at micom. We can he's doing work. Why and I and is

You know, I think, a lot of comedy people, it's easier to go to drama than for drama people who go to come and sure I find it curating- and I mean really upsetting and of how to answer this question of a hundred times such limited in its last go round and press for the show of this. Yes, general tunnel unspoken, understand that comic? It's a surprise when comic can you know at normal an end, inhabit a real character with you know: you're, grounded humanity and at an pathos since inessa surprise for people in a bucket

and cause. I get in in relation to better call Saul like. Oh, are you surprised by that like no? Not at all, it's not a surprise when any comic sure it's not how Greg Keegan Michael key is in with bob and david and just in his cause. He on a point. because you're hilarious in that no you're right thing David, but he's playing an incredibly grounded, really quiet character is so good The only people that we daren't surprised are our wives and girlfriends because they are dealing with the pathos and grounded complexity every day. Every right, the It's gone, yeah nine! I know actually that, but everyone's do good work and I'm have happy we're all alive. Healthy and eva just did a third season of increasingly poor decisions of tat margaret though network I'm on. I have see how did echo go David? It was great. with a really interesting. It can be quite different.

It's kind of a mind, blowing thing what he did, because each season and is he was describing this third season is kind of makes. You re consider everything else you ve seen so our also so you just you fuck with people's heads Yeah it's nor there they. I hope I hope very much that people aren't ahead of it and I don't think they will be, but there's I dont think bill figure out what's really going on, but there will probably be two or three times throughout the union oh, I know what it is and you'll be wrong. I know what's happening and you'll be wrong, I want point: do you think people figure it out? What's the point of view of it, I it will be until the last ten. Second, are you serious yes, it does that make you everything you said I may give you I'm forth like oh, I know what it's like to a twin peaks

the dream, with a little version, I mean I'm nine. That average are you gonna be working on anything funny in the future. Yes, making a movie starting in two weeks that I co wrote real. It's called girlfriends day as it is even more for years. I have, I been writing it on and off reliability, about a year ago or we're making great starting in two We congratulations. Thank you, buddy are so much is going out a fine little thing, it'll come out on netflix, and so that's really great cause. People will actually see it I understand it. Did you or didn't you snap, some really talented, female or actresses for that yeah, the amber tamblyn his love interest know how I said: lots of david

wrote in me. I mean kissing her issue. Really your love interest. Yes, is why the thou that seems is great she's going to be amazing in this role so great. How do you feel about this dave, You re, he kidding, I mean it and it comes. She lost her virginity. the opportunity either I hear you, however, which one a year ago it's really come full circle, my god, you guys it's you have. I feel plaque situation on the horizon could be, could be pleasant. You know I I'm a you know were of a modern only. able where I am being I accepted the the offer- to go away for a couple months and they're? Putting me up on this nice island didn't in western leaders?

like a running tat night- go there for three months than I dont check in, and I promise that I will don't bother me and I promise I won't get on the internet and I find the papers and work. the really good idea- and I look forward to it from two thousand our growers person is good. David. Why it sounds like you're gonna get time we get. We kissed each other on the screen. Haven't we David, I think so in my marriage right, yes well again I just want to say again that I am unhappy for all of us. I m glad I could be available for this thanks buddy. Thank you, the guy you're talking about it. I always get talk you mark in the you'll, see sooner rather than later, when are you gonna be out here? I will, come visit, amber when she shooting the movie with bob of how we get out of here.

Call me when you call me come on just call me: I will okay radical will talk to you later, alright guys, I felt great. Thank you guys and that was gone right. They were bob and davy work bob and David, he they were right. Oh my god, you guys. Ok, your aid for thanksgiving. Are you ready YO la tango man, some deep fuckin music, it some fog the pushes right into your heart Dear mine, you can just lay back and lay, and do it great music, it's my where's your right now to a dead. To talk to irish. one from formula tango. It's it's my pleasure, now to mention that their their latest album stuff like that, It is available now and I'll be back on tour in the u s starting next month.

go to your tango, dot com for dates and then use, but right now, let's talk to irish kaplan. Too much too much better notary doubt Are you ready? I see. I would think that, but I I don't know, I don't know if I believe that that would be the assumption I would make we ve been Iraq. all too long to be that fucking, delicate ira cetera. I don't know, maybe You ve seen it all. You know I've nazi. Have you ever known very naive? Really, yes, Do you know how many records you put out? I can name them. I can't count them. I mean I could I'd have to keep all the way through You think you could get naked name, although good I'm good at lists. The attack had no

We're thing is me, like I've known you on and off for a long time. I've listened too. I can't I m of many of the records. There's a lot of records, there's no one's heard them all. Is that true, don't you have a few fans that are like? Yes, we definitely do and you hear from them yeah I I always feel kind of shitty. Sometimes when I like sometimes I'll talk to musicians, and I usually do ok with them, but for real fan of light. somebody. Who's was in everything you do and as liking to listen to bootlegs of stuff. I don't know that I'm ever going to make an interview. Is he of that? That's going to satisfy those people like you, because you know this I've had people in your where you I owe you I like does Iraq? It those two records, and then you look them up now. They're, not they've done ninety yeah, we'll let you know that I don't have a good conversation has nothing to do this. I think that's oh yeah, you can't go out and have a like boys going out with the guitar now on nineteen. Eighty four tell all now right we're

you start even that I don't know about a week. We do where were you born? I was born in in queens and my family moved westchester immediately. So I have no memory of queens really, so you grew up in in westchester county. What town cronan hudson are really and what they can we, you can go online and see the battle the ban so was up guy from the huntley Brinkley report who lived in our time. I dunno yeah. We had a battle of the bands and at the middle school and they did a big report on it for some some kind of local color thing and- and somebody has posted the footage online and me and my friend Eric, are in the front. Ro, we just like gazing, wake in awe. Do you remember it? Oh yeah who were the bay? and the hairy things they were very good. They did blues project cover.

And then a friend of mine who, who had an older brother, whose dad was a jazz trombone player and a writer. He said he was kind of a prodigy near he. He was in the bad habit I think there are called the bad habit here, and this was like what year, nineteen seventy five, oh, no, no, no, no sixty, seven sixty eight or something! So what were you like ten here? you heard your down the park or wherever news in the middle schools middle school, ah Jim slash auditorium, but you are aware and conscious of rock and roll it yeah yeah, what kind of like white What with what was your the the check, the choice? who, like always your dad's business, he was. I worked for developer our real state. We are not yet so decide middle class, jewish family thing? You got brothers and sisters, I've three brothers and we we use jewish. Like you know, Culturally nor I know legislator, I zira like most of us. Yes,

yeah. Oh really, no bar mitzvah, nothing! Oh you didn't have none at all. The only time I ever went to the temple was for anti war demonstration. really so you, but you must add, rallo ends in some. No, not not. In that sense, I went to friend for mitzvahs and bright yeah, yeah yeah, but you and they were probably like you didn't you're not going to do it here. The rabbi was another average, for he said oh really, it's like. When is your father going? What are you going to come around and give my parents a hard time? Not a you know, depriving those kids of a lot of guilt and shame later brought up with any that's now, but music I guess here, but yet the brothers no you're, the eldest. It was on you here you had to be in former you added turn them on when you get older brother, I think so

Did you have all the cool music, whether due d do any of your siblings hold you responsible for changing their lives? Ooh yeah I mean it. Was I casta along shadow, but at age ten you already going to battle the bands. Were you listening to and those sound like pretty abstract bands I mean you're saying they did booze project covers, and you were did you know going in. I didn't and no, but I did number I mean it was. It was so meaningful to me that when heard. Projections by the blues project as like I know, that's their doing so harry things cover. I know, let's get their direct, so when you were in high school. What was it was the plan. When did you start planning a ban? I was in a ban. high school. I was my friends and I would play together, but we would just kind of tease each other yeah was not. It was fun reality, but we finally had to get to

women- who we didn't know and were in awe of to sing or cause, we wouldn't make fun of them right. We would be just brutal to each other, so it was years before again I was comfortable singing, but even in high school I was mostly playing piano I was barely playing qatar, because Yola tango is very ill. when shore unimportant banned in in. I guess, called indy rock you're like a you're a main stay you're. A point of reference we loco away youthful, that's for sure what else you will have there been discussions not made sure? I'm sure many people have discussed it. Not the three of us just keep going by did well. You're, when you're in high school, though like what was was a one year ago he waited in whatever way for oh, my god, you're older than me, like a few years,

I graduated eighty one, so you actually got to see all that shit. Like I mean I'm in the sense that where were you musically and in the early seventies around what was going on new york me? No, you were right there that I did see ya like went. When did you start taking the train in man. What at an early age. I was, I was very, I mean I remembered literally trying to talk my parents into taking me to woodstock. I mean it was that kind of at ten or twelve at that point, but really yeah. It was just up the street right, your sister either. So I was my argument, but where were you earn about music, where we again turned on that stuff? Hippies were everywhere, seek an umbrella. Well, my town was was a really big hippy town. Yes, oh the the grateful dead, loom, really large and in my town and and.

early on like in there in the seventies early seventies, but I I dunno. I guess I just I'm not I I think there was music in my household, but my parents loved folk music. They loved shows tunes. They had like the pizza Seeger at theodore, but maybe may definitely oh yeah, and but they didn't they. They like rock n roll. It also is kind of you knows music, but it was still mine right, so odetta adviser, no data record, I'm sure there was he s here, yeah. Ok, so you were that's pretty jewish parking areas, beta devil. Also. We lived right on the hudson, so a pete Seeger was gonna, sit was literally cleaning up the river in art in in town agenda. Lee haze from the weavers lived in protein and he was

diabetic, and I think I think he had already under knows what point he lost one or both of his legs. Right he, so he wasn't going anywhere, so people would come to visit. and I remember literally being picked up by our logo three one day like hitchhiking I was hitchhiking you at my will. Do you then nine, where more and more apparent whether you hitchhiker well, we was, as you know, is a different time was a safe people. There was a hills or a steep hill and kids would just wait. The bottom the hill on yahoo would stop so outface yeah. It was great to be picked up by him, but it was. The problem. Was Lee haze? Wasn't that far into the Trip to my house, so he will are loaded and take me to hold our horror. Wasn't that long arising ever big conversation, but it so easy? duck as well. We're like I remember this when I was younger, that, like images of people

having really not knowing anything about their music like I can hold in my head. Like specially the sixties like there were definitely your iconic people that I knew I could look at. You know and see a picture of unidentified, but I wouldn't really know what they would they do like like at that time. You knew it was our gallery, but did you know the alice's, restaurant or dia? Are you deaf lena because your parents at it, that would be. The grey area continues to be a show on w q acts are, which was the classical music station owned at the time of the new york times, but they had a weekly folk show called woody children, and so I guess occasionally they literally played? What is your butt, was definitely something the whole family could agree that our of radio a week a really see you with that focus you earlier. You like, I reject boomer, I'm like a tale. Endued like yours air. For that. You were like cognizant in you over the sixties and early seventies, music stuff in your team

I mean I mean, like you asked before about new york in this. seventies, and I do remember like vividly seeing patty smith for the first time in one of the just it was, was one eye opening moment after another, but she for her encore. She played time is on my side and dedicated to the fund, rock and roll it sullivan, which you know I knew enough to know that no, the father rock unrolls alan freed united, but but but she was talking to me because at solving was my father, rock n roll. I dunno Alan freed with somebody had heard about right, but I watch I saw the beatles and the rolling stones remember that the area, where is so? What were you liked? Seven then? Oh seven year, you remember seeing using the stones sour there. That's that's fascinated me because

No, I don't have that we and I don't have a guy sought after bit, so that really what you were there like as a kid when all that stuff was right, the first time any one side so. It's vivid to me, I mean I, I remember member normally watching it, but why wash my my friend from up the street, who had an older sister here he played meet the beatles for me and said they're gonna, be on tv. You gotta see, then, is this new ban here, that's fucking amazing! So when you saw, ali smith- were you in like junior high or no? No, then I was in college, oh really, yeah so, were you doing fur viking alike, thirteen dead to eighteen? I was well there used to be these these great. chosen, woman rink, which were a dollar two year and the end because of the neighborhood they were really early, so they would be over by, like eight thirty, so at all

very early age. I was allowed to take the train and go see them and go with my friend her frequently just call by myself, who was only the people isa. Well, that's where I saw the tanks for the first time, which was There was another. Just I'm I'm bored here and you're like what fifteen. If t cause you're me definitely has as a place in any dissimilar. I get a natural extension of sound. Does that happened in new york in the seventies, you know with the sound with one. yeah lou reed and enveloped underground and television, that kind of stuff like it, but you Do you feel that those are for you? You know that I usually run from the influence shirt word by air, but the thing that I've tat I do I always feel that that we were more or I more. I feel like the people who who got it from the velvet underground,

the more I mean, obviously, I'm on the wrong side of this argument, because people of Tell me I'm wrong. We sound like twelve and underground, but It's always offer me sound, like em they're for families and the modern lovers. The cutter, the more react, more suburban yeah takes on on right, the city scape of the velvet underground. That always felt. Like those p, All were that's nice if it were a little less jaded. So what what? What? What argument to people Consider you on their own, so well that that, at the time the velvet underground is, I mean I think it's I mean an outlook. love them and write. But you refuse to a a refuse to agree with anyone who has not consented I gotta have got all the record than some. They know it has, but I couldn't cite them an influence, precisely

do? I knew I could make you understand rare cosette tabs that dick me a long time to find, but I can't really say. They influence me in any way. But you're willing to. Let the feelies yeah yeah, but I friends with those guys yes because you're their contemporaries, not quite I mean later to lift their little slightly older, their yeah, but am They were a ban that that I got an. I got one at a certain point. And I moved to Hoboken. I started we both are working at maxwell's and I Wait wait towards me. Georgia. I met her at a few issue really where, at this after hours rock dance disco, dancer criteria. I remedy

Syria. Now, under a few member, the original one there were two there was there was the original one which, until it was closed in a raid of there would be three sets a night. The headlines ban would play the first and third set, and the three sets were at midnight in four. Really, the less You always were there like now who was like with a few displayed cb, gps and max's nego. They go right planning, crazy. Revamping they were far back did ever go to arm max's yeah? Maybe did you see that but underground. No. I was too young for that and I am probably too stupid. I think, by the time I heard them. They didn't exist anymore, haha, really here degeneracy lou, he oh sure yeah did you become friends with you?

come on one very wise out of any question. I am I'm it's not me, I'm not I'm not I'm not that outcome if you are with comedians the kinder kinda, so you meet heard a fairly show your new york city and you guys you gonna hit it off around the feeling, for we have mutual friends. We would an and mutual interest in in imbalance that didn't have particularly large followings, so we it was kind of inevitable net we made at some point. It was sort a smaller circle with, like you were like the duke. Did you see em. I like the new york dolls or verlaine or any of those people and television was around tv for sure. But but to me those are like sea change, differences between the new york, dolls and tomba and tv. I mean the nyt, as I said, being from like this hippie town liking. The kinks was already

an issue with some of my friends because they were dead heads or what I'm here, I'm your brother. How was I I mean I, I love that too. There were great weren't. They the dead, yeah yeah. Did you ever see him I did see my actually just solemn. I went to Chicago and how are they I've had a fantastic time was greater back here. Posts jerry do I'd. I'd, never lie and I still have not listened to a note of fish, but I thought tray on a stage. It was great. I had a great time what when did like. When did you see the dead like way? the flood, I think they were. They were round then, and a few heroin, probably I I may have stopped by then I only saw them a few times. Yeah was a pretty fun yeah. We do an acid, I nope. I told him that no drugs. Never will I mean not, I mean a little bit, but not right, not acid. Now, you're too nervous guy

So I gotta know my parents, when you ok, but you ivory towers, yeah alot when they were the top of their game. There may well, you bring your guitar. They both are here I mean I wasn't just amazing. I would go on all the time to see this year. The remains yet I mean it's it. He dead boy is yes yes to. However, here see you is so you are second all that up. It was before you were twenty right. right right, right, awry guess so yes was the faculties village white dude. If you miss that, You know, I don't really get it's funny, I I I know him sp. I know the right answer is yes, no, and I know it's not like I like it now and and and but more grown up, but I don't. I don't feel I try not to get too

I feel a lot of the the thousand year is. Is it I feel like it is nostalgia in its in its I've? Been I've got plenty of signs of age, but but all you kids, don't know how great it was is not one of ram sure. Do you see johnny thunders, yeah, how's that that those were a fantastic and we know what they would, they would they would play max's sod go to harmonise here. The heart breakers every show they ever did was like their farewell show and and they would eventually go on and almost inevitably it'd be daylight when they finally finish their second set. How about the talking heads, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've it at went? God? Damn shows a lot. Well, this one. I just like hearing that, because even at even at my most youthful I was never a guy that went out to to see rock bands and, like I did it a few times since so they're they're very rare, be a member

to me, but like people like you were like out in it I every week, and go now my ear. My ears, sir, are you mad you to confirm that story here, ok, see me where do your plinking around on the guitar and she's playing drums? You're, very humble almost to the point of negating about the beginning of this fucking ban that europe well it, but I mean to spent that's a strategy, but it, but it's not really wrong. We were we were playing in and the two bans that we were really fans of and who are very supportive of Austria, where the feelings and the de bees and the de bes used to play at parties at the new york rocker this fancying that we were out of our circle in in one day Peter whole sample

Devi's asked georgian me if we wanted to join him, join them and play with them, and I mean it was we were petrified, but we did, and that was the first time we ever played for people in public with a devi's yeah doing like cover songs at this party, so will we really wasn't you? It always. I ve always noticed the difference between like another kind of english bravado like all the music. Today, a shite syria, we to form a ban to show them how it's done that you nothing could have been further from our background. Well, it doesn't seem like, throughout your career throughout all the records, and I imagine, through your life reforming that you know it's like being a comic in the sense that in item I dont attract a lot of meat heads, so I think that like you're, having So always fascinated me about what I sense. Heavy gb was that there was such a variety of music. They match

that you're, some bans you got up to another bans audience into what has just been horrible. Like? I imagine that did it seems like the world that use robbed yourself. Inward were fairly. You know sensitive people and not like go. Let's forget why don't think especially to beginning at sea be Jesus? I don't think there was that think that many people were were coming other than I dont think it didn't seem like a huge see, range between the talking heads in there. Romania was, they were both just another year. I, oh that's interesting, punk rock here. In a way, ok see you do that gave what the dvds and, When do you meet the basic where well gee, you mean james yeah. We we wait.

formed, are banned in nineteen. Eighty four and couldn't keep a group together. We we and partly because of just how are terrible. Approach to doing it. We just would ask our friends, and inevitably our friends were in other ban, so they were never committed to us they play for while they would go. Do something else the end and we in nineteen. Ninety two We were as usual between players or we had some. filling in who we knew wasn't gonna, who was committed. So I really the coroner wishes you and giorno, always here and and James was playing in a band christmas who from Boston originally and they were living in providence the time and they

Actually, it had a similar issue. Keeping up a third person in the group and james was their base player, and we were friends with with the band, and he said he always says is jokingly. It didn't seem like a joke. The time because progress? It wasn't a joking matter, but he said well, you You ever need somebody to fill in. Just call me up, and you know we pray call them immediately quicker time to fill in forever, but he just well announced that thing. I think the fact that he joined as a temporary person has a member of another band, allowed us to organically form a band together, instead of like your high, It wasn't like that and it was really year later, pretty much that he really was in the group are really so like. Ninety, like four five albums in does the second wreck of the first record on he's kind of. There is the guy who well he's.

Touring. He knows the songs on right, the tiger known is not the first time he's on his may with me right- the theatre We've done a lot of recording we hadn't yeah with just felon people I mean yeah. Essentially I mean that that's that's an over generalization, but but yes, people who were there was a revolver. Door, because when in re listening and listening to some stuff for the first time there it's or interesting because, like at some point you, u evolved into a sound that is uniquely yours. and sometimes it makes me sad, but I think that's part of it. He had already like I like that type. The feeling in a way it is. It makes me a little heavy hearted, but I enjoy it yeah I do. But at the beginning, you know it was definitely not that that's right. So I don't talk specifically about this. With a loud musicians gives its kind of tricky to talk about

is that your hobbes we play together a long time and bans change, but what what makes some one ship, from I guess what was happening more fuel style to to this sort of almost theory kind of like tone that it has a lot more atmospheric emmy was there a moment where you're like holy shit. I should do if damp that high all the time You know this sustained on that wire doing that more ear? There's welders of right at the biggest the biggest part of tat answer is James tat when he join the band and when he really joint, not when we know that sort of year later after we have made this other record, he had moved to Brooklyn. And we didn't have other jobs. So we just practised a lot. And we'd never done that before we'd, like you know, try

get somebody to well, we gotta show come out. We really should practise a well. I think I can squeeze you in house thursday, eight to ten years, and that was- the kind of just getting ready for a gig yeah right and then, when we the record the first. On on doors, the record painful and that record we rehearsed like crazy foreign. We would we'd right the song and we'd practice hidden we'd rip it up and try it again, and you know it was. It hadn't been like that, and I think we found lots of ways of playing in ways that we could rely something to build on where, where I think well was one of the natures of having so many different people is, it was almost like starting again constantly and die in the first few yeah so an end, but you and Georgia were primarily writing, although the songs- yes, we do

a lot of covers, but yes, we were, the saucer were being re, while our first album I Dave schramm, was the lead guitarist and we did two of his own Instead, he sang and didn't he come back around yeah. He play he's. He played on our facebook occurred in nineteen nineteen. His and now this new record we have as canada, seek while the fake balkan he's back playing with us. What's that, like, after what twenty year its great the air we ve, we ve done stuff to its, I think, even though not living in hoboken anymore, he added still kind of a small town mentality. I think that we have and we don't need. People stay in our lives and even though we haven't recorded with Dave he's, we ve played with him from time to time, he's been part of hanukkah shows those one night it turned out. He was in chicago with abandon the same night.

were like? Oh, you don't come over. You songs. There was no hoboken music see well. I mean Maxwell's was right up like a hub, You lived there yeah, how about you and you are your sound guy maxwell standing behind the board. When people playing did you ever met me no. No. I haven't heard that when you do that, you sound for him. They went out of their way to upset you. Then he said that that you, you had a sort of, I can't parameter. Paraphrasing you using skunk, that's regulating the sky. He said that there is about you that had a sort of air value they did? They just want to fuck with hits usher? Wasn't difficult

and he said they would do sound checks and just play shit. That would upset you on purpose. He may be exaggerating it. He he made me miss reading. this year we also jake you prizes are like here we go, pay daisy. These kids are going to do that, punk rock, with a good man. I dont. member them- remember them their existence but I don't remember so when move to Hoboken. What year was that early with eighty or eighty one, and that was beef. Okay, so before you did a recording, so you kind of built maxwell's in a way. No, no, no Maxwell's preceded us, oh really, oh yeah, and now a was. It was one of the reasons we move there. I mean it was too to move. There was nothing happening in brooklyn at that you in those dark ages in to leave someplace where you could walk to a club was and who is playing the Maxwell circuit, everybody

quite a few people. I mean, as I said, the de bes when you re in the feelings and r m played there. A lot who score do I don't wear very so that was the second wave. So this is this interesting thing about yours at, like you know, you were a kid and you do all the c. He's business and then all those came in late or even in that way. Whole next wave of like eating away. was unleashed of the others like whose could do, and It like they poems anita men causing you saw them. Oh yeah. I did I of a friend of mine and I bought a weekly series it folk city in manhattan, for about a little more than a year, and I am almost positive. We gave the minute men their first show off of the hard core circuit. Aha that and I can probably who's gonna- do as well that could they were just part of that hard core borrowing yeah in and we put them right so there you are,

you, you move to hoboken to be closer to a climate walking distance. I was doing good stuff and your work in the board anyway, you workin out all different jobs. Are you are literally being paid by maxwell's to us being paid a little I I was more of a way to get into shows it. We. Stephanie away again to shows? But whose it was we are, we lived in a house and dumb One of our roommates had a friend stain on the couch and we felt like you'd, never leave any announced, one david. He was gonna, be the news Now, Madame assholes and I went the owner and can I am hire me, and that is how I that's that's my high I had to give up and now, as those from my qualifications, you didn't want him in the house younger

did you learn anything being zelman now, really I stuck at it, it was. It was I've. I feel bad wish. I'd been more curious about learning more things about sound, I mean like there were. There were a couple of thing. I was thinking about this recently. There are few things I did that were were right, trying to deal with the room being little and yet by dumb but in terms of like equalizer, is nothing new not your thing, don't hurt them. They want her area right, so You must have known that you are destined to be playing like at that time. I wins Hey I better. What were you thinking where you do not know the answer you now you know you sound like my mom. That's because

as being of were you doing something where you writing? Were you what we do? I was writing a little. I was for walkin merely shows why near rocker had gone out of business. Some kind of not really writing very much. I had written for new york rocker. What rock review here- and I don't know, I was promoting this promoting was yeah little here. Oh my god, your parents must go nuts. They probably were here when we probably were there were they weren't like IRA? You, wouldn't you know, do be like the occasional lunch, how come up with your mother very like what are you doing? Making up your mother right now, where are you working? Is that a good job yeah. I know I was I was. I was proof- reading lousy books out of iraq, college friend, who worked for this second rate at best paperback publisher, and I was proof

in copy editing for them, I mean, did you go to college and finished college? I went to college and I ultimately finished oh yeah, but not recently, not recently via get wearing complete dont way way after where'd you go Sarah lawrence, oh my god, I was part of how was able to go to all those shows who was just you know, even closer than croton to new york year. The boy was it right after it stopped being a girl school soon after yeah, that place has got a reputation, kind of groovy place. Nothing, no real memories. I just have some memories. What work I don't like looking back really with a bad time. You are I'm you know you. You asked these questions about. Like you know, what were you doing, which is such a naturally

it's. A question seems this. Come out of the conversation very organically- and I don't know I dunno know the answers I it's kind of. Raising to me that we managed to get here today that we- I maybe I did have a plan. I dont it doesnt. I can't I don't think so. Well, maybe it seems to me that that Why me I'm no therapist, but it seems to me that there there's this, natural, diminishing gear, have in your head, that its humble your humble say idea. It seems that nike and talking about it, you're like why don't I dunno he just you know just we weren't really trying indeed, do anything, but I mean your music is very it very realised in and passionate and an orchestrated in an amazing. So I get I'm point you know: you'd have to own your ambition as a musician. Well,

from the moment we played we light. We loved plain and have always but am yeah move. We ve tried with we turned the best we can always in, but would you study in college. I mean barely anything. Sarah lawrence was was a college. You can really drift fewer drifting. I was drifting and there I was gonna shows I mean that's really what I was. Maybe you can identify in your mind or your heart that you're may be going shows cause of this amazing desire, Do you know I always knew? I had the desire that for sure here without a doubt, but but it almost felt, as I thought, I'd try to express a book

or, but that almost the more I wanted to do it yet the harder it the more unobtainable it seemed at times. I I just couldn't figure out how to make that leap Iraq, even when it seemed like it wasn't a leap anymore, but just a step now with painful, but that was the album that really sort of got you recognised. Yeah I mean we ve always had kind of little incremental yeah but painful was was a big change yeah. and in that I got you some air play or were you getting our play before that are probably what college radio I'm sure were yeah yeah, if we were in college radio and Anne and probably never got it anywhere else, even with painful anything or any other record really. I mean we ve. Never had you know some,

commercial radio, which has like the right the one hour of one hundred and twenty minutes equivalent. You know, did you want that sure I'd be? I I'd be happy to have. Six year more commercial success. I am I mean that something I am confident about it that I don't feel like. I I believe in in me and I believe in us, and I think we could deal with whatever situation we were put in do you, but you never consciously said, like we're. Gonna write a hit: no no winner, I dont think we'd be good at it. I mean we know we don't we don't play well enough. We don't seem well enough were not that's not what our strengths are. I think our strengths are expressing who we are right and I think trying to be something else and I think, would

We would not be as good at it right and and honestly or while, as opposed to everything else. I've said, and one thing that that I did get a lot out of from going to see bands seeing the bans in like television who were a strong for once in this regard in there remains watching these amazing bands not become successful. Underground the kings in their own way. We're at finally got to the point where I didn't. I thought that not all, leader in an abandoned or be q, who are kind of not part of any of this. We are, but still huge to me here. Not only was being good, not a guarantee of success. It got to the point. I thought it might be a guarantee of failure of commercial failure that, and so we never expected We weren't disappointed by not being more successful.

And then we also observed people that we considered peers, who we did think were kind of going for it and it seemed to backfire like every time. He like a boy. like our em who did get bigger and bigger it'll it to me. It didn't seem like that. Was a calculation, it seem like they they caught a wave right and then so we tried. I think I am sure what I agree with you I am being devils advocate. I think that there are people that that set out to write a certain type of song. It's a different career ambition. You know like if you don't. I talk to somebody jack Antin off who wants to be a pop songwriter me that's the job he wants, but we also want to express himself, but you know he studies music. You argue talk to somebody like a rivers, I mean that guy he wants to make pop music the EU know a ban also honour the himself in the same sort of breath.

But I I mean I gravitate more towards you know what you're saying, which is that he and you know that the purest expression of what you think is your creativity is. We is what you should be doing and that's what you did Yes and how's your audience, holding up after thirty years, pretty good and it's gonna. You know it's were family night yeah guess: you're sure they're bringing their parents and vice versa, senator yeah, that's sweet The three actually we have we have a new record is is, is so different from what we normal do there's. No! I don't like that. It's called stuff like that, their yeah, I always a different. Well, it's as its as I said, it's like a sequel to this fake book record. We may, which is just. I only play acoustic qatar. Georgia doesn't she plays a small kit standing up, maybe with brushes its

and we did our show. We did in pr show recently in that playing that way, And now we got an email afterwards from somebody saying them. I I loved it. My son was little supporting the door, no guitar freak out such so. Will that happen at the philadelphia show, or is that the way you're gonna play cause it's gonna impulse, whether he concert you wanted. Some noise actually were euro next year, a real here were to secure the kid down where you want some fuckin noise. You want some fuckin guitar, you didn't the kid guitars he I gotta. Listen to your listen, your heart. Where did you figure out how to to sort of do because I know people compared to the term thurston problem. Little bit liking it by your good. I think certainly a little more melodic, where did you start to open it up like that? What we say already at.

When we were, we did a lot of practising a trio. We didn't, we did very low. playing live as a trio yeah, but we would practice and then whoever was gonna, be the fourth ban. Member at that show what kind of show up and have one rehearsal so a lot of it? Some of it was just imitating a dave rick who was our our first bass player, but then also I mean he's an astonishing guitar player and he would play- and I just Jim years. Wailing under the trouble alarm, I thought tat looks like fun happens I would just try a lot of good practice and got comfortable enough that we started accepting. Shows before we found out whether one of our rotating cast of guitar players- do it so is actually away to fill out like email. You became more confident with the south

that you didn't have to the EU is strong enough. Toward the matter who the next guy was gonna come in. Well, we we also I felt that way. We felt like as a quartet. We could. We could plug these different people in but then we we did the show and all many as a trio, because we had accepted the date. and turn out. Nobody was free right to like gulp and- and I did, although guitar solos and was like that was fun so yeah, if you could do it at doing it, it was a scary, jump, yeah, did you like. I like, if I think about when I think about like I like I said I rarely play with people, but if it is me in a base player and a guitar, it's it feels like there's a lot of responsibility here, I think you re right, there's no guy just to make sure that that state, hold up over here. So I can do this so most to compensate for lack of a rhythm player in a way. Well was also

What I could do me mean some of some of the more melodic and other ways of playing some of that. I I think I've developed over the years and at the time I probably wasn't capable of doing much more than just making a racket right. So the last record, the the the fade record, is a classic yoga tango record like that, but this one which I didn't get on vinyl, so I didn't listen to yet I'm not being a snob. I just know the cds to get away from me. I understand it's it's. Acoustic and grown ups alike. It is what you're telling me this yeah yeah. It's primarily cover songs. It's there, we wrote there's only two new songs by us who do cover. Ah, I can look right and had parliaments Levin spoonful, hank Williams, LA but also some some bans that are not while known antietam

special pillow that anteater mountain. That's a pretty record, which one oh, a shorty, I dunno there's the of. If they are first show almost thirty one years ago, was with them. It was like Third show they ve been playing around the idea. I got an balancing like it so fucked up like you know that I dont believe if there's any late to the party, but, like I miss so much always either because I'm a pretty open minded person but to keep filling in you know you I get all these records, because there are these records around they're. All these labels, not labels with smaller, Presses are reissuing things here that were record nerd favorites in their bands and, like I don't know who this is. How do you know? this is here now. those records to you, but I have the original to some of those records a lot of it, but I am. You are sharply. I am happy that I have that I've stopped caring. when there was a time in my life when it would have really disturbed. Not to know how I sum

I now it's like I'm just me add better, but there's also an excitement of discovery yeah. Even if something's you have been buried to you or a nun eh. I didn't know anything about it for thirty years, forty years, like what boy bobo's this year. How is this happening because there's all these different types of movies that sort of surfacing in their own communities now that the media landscape is fragmented and and people consort. Like find their little a world in it in a slightly different way than like others, iraq, billy, there's a punk rockers. Is that but now, like your site, in Iraq and in these records that were released in in, issues of a thousand records that no one can find, but now they reissue them and mine. I do know the fuck. What was until I get six months ago and there's ninety records. Yeah these are the ground hogs I'll. Even to this day I know one hawk windsor yeah, I don't know you the song by outlined greater what about the ground hawks grand hogs

no a little bit. I didn't know anything about them, but because dan down again a gear, damn damn cook Donna, giving gimme they're gonna get me in new york the record store on. I think he was unsafe, marks yeah, we're here now so he's my guy she's, like I think like this in my mouth, a mess of a groundhog sky. He didn't talk with here I dunno and now Izzy is a groundhog guy and that guy and you still round that mcfee that, with his name, Dave mcfee the ground, It's a guy that I don't even know yeah I dunno and you cover us son rob. How do you do a sun rasa, yet it some adieu up song. I do up number, but that was he rode and arrange for this vocal grew. The cosmic rays. So what I'm starting to realize is that young, maybe you went to see a lot of rock shows, but I think you're, probably more influenced by your record collection in the sense that you have a very wide expansive sense of music.

from here from having so many records like you, wouldn't have seen on raw. Oh sure, you did season yeah I'd. In fact, not only do I see sun ra sun me as one of the people that I kind of kick myself about, because there was a witness, the seventies they played new york all the time and in the eighties- and I went I saw Why him in them a few times but but I like, have a friend of mine who would like to see them every week and I was like why wasn't either. Smart. So what is it about him? Cause he's not easy, yeah! Well, that's. That was, part of why wasn't going every week? I mean not just that, he's a good bit like you're out like come archives, Who are you? What are you going to really get it? There was a lot of that. It felt like yet really had to that's my recollection of maybe I'm a say red megabits. Where did you get your jazz head chop Where did the where'd you get turned onto that, will end our bee q had a lot to do with it

hearing hearing son raw, the first time I was aware, son, robberies entering an army. Q do can number nine and they did felonious monk songs, and then I heard the loneliest monk and was like oh aye. That sounds a lot like terry atom. So a lot of that came through the last year and then and cannot just listening to born at common albert isler john call, train you're just further, you know juciest their liking, Read an interview with roger, more gwynn you're talking about eight miles high. We wanted sound like John Paul trade Well, that's interesting because, like that type of the type of guitar plain that you somehow take the freedom to do is adventurous and I imagine that listening to that stuff, early on or being influenced by that stuff certainly gives you a sense of how far you can push something

or at least give you that the freedom to do it, but probably I mean it's it's it is some. I mean I'm not just being cut. Sometimes it's not not nor shariah where these things were coming from, but You don't neil young. Has there too were you, you chairman just feel like. While this is not a technical master, this is somebody vicious playing out of sheer She earnestly I kinda and in feel like well what would happen if I did that work with that work? Would it sound it'll just trying thing does it feel good when you do it the best yeah yeah? What about like when you do covers in a way it's kind of what looking forward to have not playing that way. It's like tantric sex it'll, be like

you will be so exciting to go back and doing it again after a year. Airing occurs yeah. I bet it well, but but do you find them like a g the, owing to the point of reference I have when I We talk about the new record, an indeterminate feedback you getting is sort of. Where very different way and in a way that I don't quite understand, is I don't know him, but the sort of like where Jonathan richmond stopped and stayed You know that he even he became almost in it in its almost children's music. After a certain point, annie. Oh, he like there are those acoustic records any may that were very fun light hearted. But those pretty old I mean those sure. I don't know what he's up to now. Do you know? Have you a little bit me? We know him. Yeah, yeah, see good guy, I dont know I'm a problem. Yeah. I mean I kind of like to talk to me, but I'm nervous, he's east doesn't like talking doing interviews that much he's he's he's he's.

He did an interview for this amazing documentary by danny fields, and he did it. Why. setting up first. Atta at the bell house and then now turn who was with somebody else just I know also interviewed same scenario. twenty minutes, while he setting seen him shout. Have you seen him lately play not in the last year but see? I continue to see him as he pretty good this great, it's fantastic. It's just him for the last bunch of years. Just been him and a drummer, he brings his own pa. He plays a a nylon string, guitar not plugged in it's real they're, really quiet. He like, if you gotta, be careful what time of year you go see him because Make the air conditioner be turned off because you're lazy, yeah, but but he's he's playing whatever comes into his mind.

The mothers or his wormwood anyway? That's what's interesting is hit his repertoires, not that vast yeah. He doesn't really. on that many songs, but he can do them like it change key in the middle and I'll just put down the tourists are dancing and give. drummer a solo in and he sings in in, I think it's six or seven different languages. He does suffolk hebrew italian, french, spanish interesting english, he's very sight of god in his own journey, absolutely It is so inspiring you just watch and and and he's he's just Will you think and act in a way that, like So I go not savant, but somebody who who sort of protected himself yet and in insulating himself out of your perseverance in a way, I'm curious about that. I should listen to some of his waiter stuff like having listened to stuff in a long time,

in terms of themselves and selling tickets. On the road of I know you do soundtrack, work and stuff like that she's sort of diversified a bit. You d do those kind of gigs. We we do whatever makes sense to me we do enjoy playing in all sorts of ways. Is in it and it- and it is part of it, as I said, will be when we come back to playing electric it'll, make it that much more exciting, having played acoustically for a few months we're looking forward to as well and similarly we we we were here just couple months ago playing a offer for one of your guests? We we back to amber tamblyn at the hollywood forever cemetery. Is. She was reading her I'll poems and we were. We were her band and suggest Habakkuk whose great we We will try to figure out a way to do it again, but it was his wont. You make a record well it's up to her.

What about the the todd? Haynes movie Dylan movie ere! You did several of those right. He songs fur philadelphia ended. Give me with him. Did he choose? You have that where he chose us he he wanted us to record them for fourth timer. I actually think there was a list of maybe four or five songs that he wanted to choose one we chose fourth time around and then the music people said well as long as you're recording, He knows everything else you want to do, and I want to be. Your lover was one that we already knew. Ah, but it was cool. What was exciting about that was fayoum. They encouraged us to do something. You know, don't we You have to record a trio if you want to do something different go ahead, so we ended up terry items. We cannot put together our hawks and terry items from from army q played piano india, Stanley derail whose bequeathed a buck reside ago. He played

vanishingly great hammond organ player. He played organ and our friend pete philips played led qatar chance bashing played our monica was la. crazy session. We did one afternoon it's amazing yeah. So that's fine man. Absolutely so you still having fun yes, emery fat ugly, but I think we did good. I'm I'm I you know being interviewed, remains kind of this. This weird experience it's kind of a lot of a lot of things. I think it's in a lot of ways just better to listener records and make up your own story and and having sort of this authoritative figure presumably knows the real story. Tell what happened. I think in some ways is lessening the experience of listening, some always willing to answer.

Oceans, but I'm never sorry when they're not asked, I'm not a big question guy, that's a enjoyed myself, my mama. I myself always hoping you start talking as I was. It is about iraq, as I like I've. I've met you several times and we get been embarrassing but like I don't think I ever thought like that. Guy, never shuts up february. Nice adopting my special thanks That's it that's it The show that was, I right think we did all right all right thanksgiving enter with an open heart, but not to open. Cause you trouble again remember that we're all fragile and that some people were not be around forever, but try to look at the good eat some good, and if we're gonna lose our shit, let's try to make it as brief as possible.

We can only do a weakened. Give that if you feel it happening, maybe get out, take a walk, take breathe it. If you don't catch in time, be quick to the apology. It's not your fault, just carry it with you. For a year, deal it is next year a right whales and I gotta, ok, yeah deputy pod dot com is the site go there get on the mailing list in the comments. What's up, you have checked the episode guide, get how the new app with our arc. Type. The remixes that we used on the today show worth were by a dj. Hopefully you can find him on twitter at a web puppy. Forty five, our theme music, is John montagnier and- and you know, take it easy, I happy holidays, do the thing so replace them guitar. I can play.

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