All right, let's do this, how are you at the fuckers what the fuck buddies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck a harlots yeah? What alcohol- is how you guys doing what's happening. Today on the show, the actor clark. Greg is here, you might know, clark Is the new adventures christine from marvels agents, shield from it's in movies for his interesting gag, interesting frequency, interesting vibe enter focus and energy interesting, accurate. I was excited to talk to examine ways like him. When I see him in eggs and is one of those guys it can do comedy and serious pretty seamlessly between the two and he was also a atlantic theatre. Guy started we're in mammoths, operation, so kind.

To learn a little bit about that. I I did have somewhat of a david mammoth too fast nation for many years have found it to be very compelling. I dont know ass, we get older some of those ass a nation, some of those obsessions wayne a bit annie. You just see a people is People who are getting older- and I just haven't, checked in with the david for many years I know he's gonna angry or a little junior, a widow One side, ear. Guesses word egg. Look I don't fucking, no, I don't We also have damn passion round the show from the sport for podcast dan, and I would now these relationships with some people. I know down a long time and doing now, little more on the shower. I a guy that I like to talk to just about bullshit and comes in, and we just talk about bullshit. Listen and show. You know how dan operate, I do on it.

Pay a little lip service to the new season of marin, into jason molina and to it. Like I talked about us, called the ride on molina by rivulets couple ago, and then I got some feedback that you know. I didn t you know it's about. Jason will mean. I know it's about. I love jason moline, it's a sad story that jason molina story, but he did. We have some music. I listen. the song brahma, the magnolia electric company. There's a song on their called farewell, and mission that I listened to. Just like I did ride on molina need. They seem to be intricately connected in that was jason ass record, and I do believe that he died very young. At thirty. Nine or I think from alcohol? Related problems no they're kind of want to talk about it. I know people for responding to The attitude of the new season of marin, some people

excited about the change narrative. Some people were concerned. Some people find it little painful by day I will tell you not, unlike recovery that it does get. Better emotionally in for me, and I am okay, I did not real apps on painkillers. do not want to a relapse. Some and kellers. I ma I'm. Ok with that. I dont want to take painkillers or alcohol buddy. It it can happen and it happens to a lot of people on out I'll talk about that I don't want it to be be Monday, so I'm thrilled at the response, add two to marin season, for it was a very exciting thing to do. It was a a bold thing to do. there. I just want to make sure that people understand that. Not only that I did not relapse but also that I went out of my way to respect addiction and to respect recovery in the centre,

There is no way that I would allow it to be trivialized in any way I wanted it to be, as as real I possibly could muster emotionally, william within the context of a comedy. I do represent ay ay. I am not a spokesperson for ay ay. There's plenty of ways to get sober, twelve steps can be will die. Thing for some people, little alienating a little cold like by debt work in it the way I think about things in an. However, you need to figure out that you have no control over what ever it is. That is strewing your life, is what you need to do, then. That's that that's the that that is the crux of it. But I do know it is a thing that I'm gettin too, is that your some people are very protective of the programme, very protective they ain't. I knew this was going to be an issue a bit yon very

look about my sobriety? Also very public about not being a spokesperson, not representing the programme? Look if it works, it works. If it doesn't it doesn't. I do know it's three, I do know there's all kinds of meetings in every fuckin town in this country, and you go to one and just sit there not say nothing, and nobody so I get this email. subject line no subject line w tea at what the fuck is with all the eh stuff you used in the show. You should be a better custodian of our literature, go ahead and make fun of the rehab bullshit. He could have done it without showing the text in conjuncture. with your show, have been fan Fred AL their people there very. Protective of the system and the traditions of a a- and I understand that I understand the tradition. The tradition is a you know. shouldn't be involved in radio or film. It should not be promoted. It should not be involved. An anonymous

culture anonymous programme and you need to protect the programme, I get it. So I wrote back sensitively. Kick me out ned. I thought better of that and then I wrote again it all helps. for the programme is culturally relevant. I didn't mention ay ay. I do more outreach and get more feedback and have more people by being openly sober. I dont claim to be a representative of the programme or a spokesman, or even that specific. I understand that vision. I also understand the problem. You be the study, and you are, I will be what I am in. The programme will go on forever, any even right now I should be talking about it, but there's a lot of people out there that need help, and I do know that these meetings are free. They asked nothing of you. Other than to show up at because you're you're in a bad place, but like right after I got his email like I get a lot of emails about this. You know I never set out on the show to help anybody do anything but myself in a lot of ways, just to speak openly about

what's going on with me and in whatever my struggles are an obvious. We that helps people. When you hear other people talk about stuff, that's how people you know feel connected and and and feel new things in their brains and in making decisions and listen and new things and have a life that is engaged. You know to other people, so there too emails here It's hard man, it's hard life is hard on its own, but I got there milk is heartbreaking. Markham watching the newest episode of your show, its very entertaining my wife and I ve been for years we lived outside of fort worth and senior stand up in san Antonio in Oklahoma city. She passed away two weeks ago on April twentieth at the age of thirty seven. I don't know why. I'm writing this to you right now, except to say that I don't know what to do. Ultimately, alcohol took her life.

I'm drinking as I write this every one of my family avoids the reality of how and why she died. I dont have any one to talk to you because I think they all blame me for not fixing her. I don't expect a response to this email. I just feel like any d write down my guilt. Considering a and grief counselling, but I'm having a hard time getting through each day. I'm going to go back to watching you show, she and I are very much looking forward to it after the last season- she's, not here anymore and so yeah I want. I want that guy to to get help and united in in they just want. Generally, I just want people to know that. Look. It may or may not work of whatever Is it you do, but Jesus you know, try, try something. Try don't fall into yourself, don't insulate yourself, you know there is definitely help out there and then this one came right after that. Hey I'm a what the furnace move other shit. I feel the need to save you help me look up. I had lost hope for Fifteen years in my random drug addiction, you help

I believe that there is something else out there for me. I have tons of hobbes and talents and I've recently re began investing my thoughts and time into my new future, I'm putting eggs in all my baskets, and I have hope he helped me feel like it. It's at least possible. Thank you. You're welcome it's hard That's one of the reasons. Why did this isn't like? I did? It could happen anybody. Still just come out here to the garage and do this thing and I live my little life. my little neurotic problems, so when I get easy males of the affair? they show has on people that you eat just like. I want to share them with you, because there is some sort of community and there is some sort of a real soon. Going on out there for a lot of people, but I wanted to read this. What fuck canadian surviving wildfires in fort MC murray, also the determined what the fuck inaction therefore the EU canadian tame mark If you haven't heard there was a wild fire. They pretty much took out the entire town of fort MC murray, Alberta. Population

thousand myself, along with my wife for months old, in dog had to evacuate my home, without any notice, as our backing in surrounding area, was set a in a matter of minutes. We cannot find our cat and said we had to leave behind while the family, in the car safely and pulling away watching our house swash neighbourhood go up in flames. Just wanted you to know that your pack ass is helping us get through this? These I called times wedding. Our minds fade out and thinking about something else, for a change, keep up the good work mark and thanks again, loyal fucking alien, a Kevin Jesus Christ. That thing was brutal and I did I thought I'd take it upon myself here to say that if you want to help out there's a lot of people that have been displaced, redcross, dot, c, a as the red cross in canada, you can help out in the e e r s s, dot, org, edmonton, emergency relief services But tat is no that you know. Whatever your day is today most EU scheme

ok and I I didn't wanted to be a downer and I'm not trying to be a downer. I'm ok, things are you guys most of the year good, but I just want you to know. There's there's upon the way. There's help available you know there is a way to disorder that Canada, yet what you need to do to get by, but also to eat a little better life Jesus Christ. What's becoming of me Oh my god,. my heart, is overwhelming me cheese. Let's talk It's good to me and dan passion you PMS, and on here before we go way back ways to work together. On the radio and argue about bullshit now Dan is turn that into a job. You can hear him doing its thing on his part: gas sport, for you just had Maria effort on so you can go check that out and when he's out you're no way like two haven't come over, so we can pick up where we left off it's an on going

an ongoing argument about bullshit with me impassioned. So this is me Dan yeah, you got, you got very excited their dan yeah. Like all there, he and ran in the house so now got a plan. Yeah and weed of a planned. It wasn't a plan. I have a plan until it appeared into my head. Just now were drinking coffee in your like, oh shit, I got an idea. We were talking about the taste of the cry, ok and into the ratios of coffee. Too. Right water, temperature and right now we learning out than we did a settlement of the sport folded awhile ago about how sound effects the eating and drinking experience and this experiment. I want to eat my way away from your voice right in this new diet,

as it is now that there's food inside re, listening to you. So what's why'd you get the computer, ok So so it turns out that the background music, that your listening to at a given time can affect how something tastes really, yes, is up the approved yet approving, alluding spammer to proof. Ok, fine charles spends researcher universe, the very awkward in england where europe, like obvious music and no charles, gave me the press permission to play this music hooker. Ok, here's what I want you to do. I want you to show. Take my nicotine lozenge up. Yes, take us up of coffee and hold the coffee in your mouth and as you do, I want you to really think carefully and lustrous can do this in homes. Well think carefully about how sweet, or even that guy retired people lagoon. Damn you. to give you is that aid is this part cast it really. Four people were short untie command now, my dear

enjoy your coffee. Go, get your coffee, ready, I'm ready rd and take a take a sip and hold the coffee in your mouth for a second and really think about how sweet or bitter the coffee tastes. Okay, hold it in your mouth. Think about it, try to give it sort of a rating in your mind, of how sweet or bitter the coffee is k, Dwight join you number rating or global justice. In my mind, a peg it in your mind, right kate. Now I want to take another sip and hold it in your mouth and keep it in your mouth as I play this music okay player one. How does that affect the flavor adult

Okay, alright interesting, you are over the net. Why is there a right answer? I wouldn't say right answer, but but take another put the coffee back in her mouth and take another sip drinking. This fascinating, take a little sip hold the coffee in your mouth. Think about how sweet or bitter it is and listen to this oh yeah, What happened made it a little tartar little sharper? Little like you know, who lit it up a little bit like the first one kind of native flattened it and the second one kind of sparked it up a little okay yeah. You see it and it made a difference. Okay, so How does how does this apply to my fucking life? What am I supposed to

for the future. Well, didn't we learn typically lower pitch music will make things in his works of chocolate to lower pitch musical, make it taste more bitter and higher fish musical and make a tasty little sweeter men and some scientists think that this may be a way to like get people to taste. Make things take sweeter or failure and what, while reducing the amount of sugar in it. What does this mean that you now become the guide starbucks who, when they have something on the than the music inside you're like, you know this thoroughly. Making Europe already burn, shitty coffee that really takes even more like I can't drink it. So could you turn off the curd vile praise? You could have something to learn more a beat yet this could make you another person, but like us in that france should think about. I just gets interesting there now we're doing this, for restaurants, maybe or for the way people eat like it could allow people to make healthier food is the taste decadent is as ever, and I say so, you're approaches. This is a healthy approach. So if you pick the right sort of joy

owning, shitty, music that you might be able to eat something that is not as good as youth is, as it should be, an old tastes better. If soon, there alone eating, say no diet ice cream but the music as a gay sweeter right, like imagine? If you opened up your shitty diet ice cream when you open up the lead. You heard this pressing. You just have an association that it was free internet would taste better to you yet Also one east flavoured have a different near rain right, that's good! right. Well, what are you doing out here? I've got a conference That is the main reason: what kind of conferences the impassioned go to this international association of culinary professionals and they have an especial panel on food pod castors. So I was one of the food pod

sure they asked. Are you a pre eminent food pog has to know. I guess you could probably say that I'll. Take that to night I was asking. If it is, you know it's onwards and for yourself, if someone said you are you a preeminent, you want to do it more radio like well. How show here I'll do it more radio am also year because, as a preeminent food, pascal podcaster, you're, you're, you've been asked to be on a panel? Yes. Well, that's quite right! Mark! Yes, thank you, yeah, alright. So what do you what's going on so yeah I mean I've been been pretty busy. We just finished up this as a starting to tell you in your house is big series we did. I would love to hear your take on it about food and culture and race on the spork fall, and you dicey feels rarity feels like working again travel legs. Well, are you calling food names? Well, it's funny because leading up to this he's alive. A lot of people like. Are you nervous and as are I wasn't, and I said I wasn't nervous that everyone know,

But europe limit that Linda cronstadt, recording cows and talk about how like like. Why doesn't like what you are saying, It is likewise wise it. Why does this sound so fuckin, good words if you listen and new folk music, I use windows instead, down ponies, which was a folk trio where she was just to bigger. I think a talent for music in general, not the darn town default people, but she was too their son. about her that obviously was destined to go somewhere else by even the folk music sounded you're better than what I would here today. And my argument was with a lot of stuff in this- is not being old I or or at all sort of mind, is that they were closer to the source. It was a new thing like a young white kids doing folk, music, rio

that that first or maybe towards the end of the first wave of folk revival so closer to the source, I think what you picked up on right right. I was so like this one of his we talked about in the in the series is like what happens when people start messing with food? Isn't isn't it food from a culture other than their own? We are sometimes it's confusing dry or people that want to fuse other cultures. Where are you now like this? Is polish topless? Now has meant that too That's a programme with the wrong sauce or re ready, but like what happens when, especially when it's a white person who is messing with and changing around a food You that people of color, while having had experience with this myself in that year, there was a period there. I was so taken with indian food that wanted to make it? and back when I lived in San Francisco. I've gone through a couple waves of this. Actually, where you want to try

do something like you get the I got our job is the book and also got dares to count? What's her name, the other big indian chef, the old jew, Julie, sunny, yes Joyce! I thank you. You run into this weird thing: as a unanimity in person who went to these restaurants, you can make a tendering marinate, but you do have a tender young and you do not have the skill set, that would enable you to make it authentically and what makes something good that is a cultural cohesion or ethnic cuisine is that your usually dealing with a kitchen that is equipped and has been seasoned to make that kind of a food and people that know what they're doing to make it so to really capture. That's gonna be different, so a lot of times it s. My point is that, as somebody who's trying who to do it themselves. It's obviously gonna be inferior or different because you can't make it authentically by nature for your unless you ve, studied it, but in that analogy you Who are the modern day folk singer

you are like too far removed from the source to render Well, whereas Linda Eurostat is someone who may be is an indian american first generation immigrants whose parents were born in india who grew up still travelling to india, whose cooked indian food in a house like an army that had been dashed by think the source is different. As that sort of a time thing I like like why cuisine or or or traditional cooking, is I think that you know is what it is like in italy the same. If somebody makes it correctly where music is sort of like things, change and you know amplification guitars. You know people's distance from it. Changes to be, but not really new equipment gets discovered rather than get change, people move around the world and they combined spine, but I'm just saying that the analogy the source is always going to be ever present with cuisine, whereas with with music, a lot of those people die, you know like the source is dead now

I can't write, like the cuisine, has a life of its own, interesting dissemination. Yes, but I dont a hundred percent agree because I feel like I've been we go further than what is so hard to understand. Why? I just think that is the way we do. We have this idea that, like whatever the present is that with this, so that there is a sensibility like. Oh, it's always been this way and now somewhat coming along and changing it. You know like people in mexico, some mexican people would say that Mola is like has been more lay in mexico, thousands of years. There has been the same for thousands of years and actually is and that it has some some route ingredients have been, but fifty percent of the ingredients of molly came from other parts of the world. They from south eight zero to two hundred years that still longer than you know, and when he got there are many restaurants rib. But the point is that which one was the true one, the one that really hard to digest Have you been to a haka? Have you eaten real moly? I have not a little rough going. Dude comes with a side of grasshoppers method,

getting, I ate em all joy did I took it in. I had my way and more hocker in like there's like. I think that original mullay- has a fairly big lard component. So I think that some things are shifted. As of availability and just sort of like who the fuck wants a cook with Lord rufford, but that's another Who is they so? Let's say so, one of the things we top of the stairs renal, Rick Bayliss, mere famous celebrity schaffner, like his restaurants, ok I love is one. I actually love his restaurant in the chicago airport. Ok, he he doesn't progress towards the torrent, or rather I look forward to going to fly. American to chicago striking, go get there his coup no sandwich support. I'm sure he'll appreciate that I've talked to him on twitter. Have you seen as a restaurant is good and his restaurants are very popular and like any someone who has studied deeply mexican food

culture that tragedy living there right you're right, but there are also those mexicans mexican americans who are like screw this guy rick Bayliss he's ripping off our food he's getting rich off of art. those people, yes directors, there's a unified front against work down aside as a strong word, but that he has faced a persistent criticism throughout his career that he, especially because he is very rich and so on, and on top of that- and he puts himself forward as an authority in this cuisine. He makes a lot of money off was in here- and there are people who feel like there are a lot of mexican grandmothers who can cook as well are better as he can and they get nothing. But does he ever bring up the fact that, like he's got mexicans cooking in the kitchen? He does a god tar will write your pedro making this stuff yet miss abbot

asked him in the interview like if he ever thinks that it is to his advantage to be white, and there was like this really awkward long silence and then he said he had never thought about it. Really. He changed his wife. Now now he's going to quick, cooking mexican food, yeah unlikely if he wasn't happy with that. Some of the line of question, really you got you got controversial. Well that that's the thing is like I go up to. Sometimes I go up to them to kick cow mexican tests and up on colorado, which as a very refined in a way we're fine mexican food but its mexican owned and operated, but they ve. Can it to another level like they have duck tacos and things like that, but they make other tortillas but then, if I want to get their dirty mexican food nice that would love. I go down Ah, yes, tat go where they make the heroic chase, but they make them from scratch is well. That's my guest sandal shaped thicker tortilla re put stuff on it, but it's definitely a different experience, but they're both mexican but low. What's interesting is the way you said, the other of the doktor

The place has quote unquote taken it to another level where they have, because they they yeah. They demanded a level of sophistication. They have yes, but but a very mexican way. Okay, but but but nothing do a rebellious, and maybe it is it's. It's a statement against its actually That's the he spearheading the movement against work, bayliss, ok, the guidance, a cow I dont think is necessarily a right or wrong answer it we explore in this area, I think cuisine evolves and that people brings that, like I've had amplify I'd and embryonic it's like barbecue now, every asshole in the world opens a goddamn, barbecue restaurant, but I'll only eat barbecue at a couple of places in austin and a couple of places. in the more formal south, because I feel that their authentic places? So if you want authentic food, you know you can go to these places Take it to a different level if their rooted in the authenticity of the cuisine- and I think somebody like Bayliss, I trust, you have done his homework and I like his food and yo. Yes, makes me a little uncomfortable that year.

maybe he's? getting a lot of money by a in the Hence it like. I understand the issue, but the thing is as you know, he did his researches respects the cuisine, and I would imagine that you know unlike anywhere else, if you go to a fancier mexican voice, I would imagine like some mexicans would go to and does this isn't good. Eddie Rona, with this thing, but is this is what is this sauce right and if I do you know, you don't want any just anybody. You know Making a jewish soup. United, right, but we re, I dont think that there's no way I set out to have like a clear, yes or no right or wrong answer. I think it's complicated. I think it's true that food is always evolving like you say, and I don't think even the term authentic is kind of problematic cause. Was the one true authentic and I talked to one cookbook author, who said she was trying to recipe for a cookbook about this is indian dish rasam and she and she couldn't get the people in her family to agree on what the recipe was so she's like

authentic way to do it. You know that, but there's authentic things that are carried down traditionally and the who the hell knows for generations ago. If, grandma decided to replace schmaltz with butter? You know that just awaits made in your family. The point is that things are always changing, so I agree that things are always changing yes, but What what I learned in this series is that, like food, is such a stand in for identity and a lot of the tensions that exist just over general issues of inequality, manifest themselves in food and the and the and foods assimilate into american culture in the at this, in the in, in parallel with the people who bring them, and so, for instance, mark. Why do you think it is that we pay

well for italian food and mexican food. Typically, do that's a good question, I'm going to go with the ingredient! Well, I talked to a professor study this and he said that it is more because we tend to. We have a perception of a certain person you'd like what we think of mexican ivy in relatively parlour. I impoverish new immigrants right, so we downgrade our perception of their culture. Their food italian immigrants have assimilated and so they are sorta like that. But I get what you're saying, but it's sort of like the difference between mirage as teka and cacau, it's like a cow you're going to spend a little changed. You can spend some money. Herat you as tech up I mean three friends can and spent twelve dollars right, but a cow d like forty five right, but it's also the same sort of like I gotta get pizza and a shitty sub. for for seven dollars, whereas if I go to

ariane, selenium beverly on you spend seventy, yes, but I think that in most places in america that higher and mexican place doesn't exist yet, but there is also a difference in cuisines. You know there hi and mexican food. got a motorway, a dish, chicken dish and the stuff that isn't tortilla based ragged. There's that to that, I can, you know you get a neo nazi bhutto of yours, different than a fucking plant parmesan. If you know what I'm saying yeah, but but there are a lot of italian restaurants in america that would charge fifteen or twenty bucks for a plate of pasta yeah. That is not all that spends I'm not very good italian here, but that's besides point, so the sport foes available. You can listen to it on I too, anderson w. Why Y c, every wherever you get your yeah, you feel good about what we did here. I feel really good about it. Thanks now is always nice see you, and you know that when I when I want, mind you, I ate it's, it's all in good fine for the most part. Thank you

That was fun I like seeing the light dance, laugh yeah he's got an award winning laugh, let's get on due to card gregg, again kind of research. A car gregg in others. Why is on the show, like I did see miranda mike? I like that guy I, like that guy that guy about so now we can bind up. Clark is is on marvels agents of shield, which airs tuesday nights and abc next week as the season finale. This is me and Clark Greg. So you want guys man you're those guys were you Jesus that could be. different categories. It could give the category I have which now, which we know now that you're one those guys we're you watch a movie or tv shows. Is that guy? That's guys in this thing too, and now

funny seriousness, scary in this one. I hope that was one of the ones I wasn't supposed to be long. Now, yours, like it, you can do what you can do fuckin everything you a real like working class actor guy ex mark yeah- and I talking to somebody recently, you said like there are guys anymore, I'm right now, there's a few of them. I think actually rockwell who you direct I pull. I love that guy great guy, great guy. I just talked to a few days ago. Yes, sneakily one of the great actors. Ah, I mean that's in italy, but I think one of the truly towering yeah. It's a it's interesting thing about him worry you're, like you decides against doing projects that you know necessarily represent him. Well, even though their some big bread involved, like I think he could have any huge movie star, yummy

he's just two interesting yeah yeah, that's right like every but he's cease become a friend of normal long time and he directed him right. I directed him a couple of times, etc. We did a play together years ago and were play. It was a place called unidentified human remains, new york and the true nature of love. That's a long time. I don't know, sir, it wasn't new york, it was a canadian import via Chicago and I think everyone else in the cast had been in it in chicago except for salmon. I they lost Well, the people are replaced him. I dunno in stamina, so you guys are acting together. We were acting together. We were here. We talked we were, it was called the naked play. Everybody was naked on stage. You did that. I think the pitch was my character turned out to be a a killer one of those guys here, and so they said you you're not naked. You got us our first hand with this guy's got some things he's hiding the only and not make it go? Ok.

Theatre, its damn called him. This is winter, so I'm I'm not bomb barrier which data orpheum. One second avenue two blocks from my house- and I was still late sometimes on the director- was a bit of a bit of if and a bit of a latch, and he at a certain point. He decided that he'd made a terrible mistake, suggesting that I could. My clothes, hundreds of darling Thirdly, we need to see more of your cock and, I think, hey Derek pow. we had a deal going in here: no snow, con man, so that was that was a life in theatre. What year was that boy? Let me try to do the math on that one. That's gonna be. Eighty, nine yeah, eighty nine so before that was before before anything right. That was right to beginning for you basically yeah. I done a couple of jobs in new york with a theatre company. I helped form called the atlantic

Mammoth man, macy, yemen, macy near you helped form, and I was really have been. I they really. and more than any of us, so let's go back to work come from how'd you get into this racket worthy of word. You grow up. My dad is professor and an episcopalian clergyman and his companion say, that's not a hard liner right now kind of wasp b posts. Catholic aha shares a lot of the traits of that liturgy, but it's very hey man. It's okay! Oh yeah, yeah, it's okay, yeah yeah, no blood, it's okay! It's all good hell If they talk about us in that town nobody's concerned about it's no law. How are we going to hell we're in volvo say so yeah? My worry where'd you girl, humanism. When I was, we moved around a lot. The short answer: he really one of the four.

I am I was born in cambridge cause. He was doing grand school in at harvard andor at harvard divinity. I think so That's nice! Pretty he asked me. I mean I was tiny and then he was the chaplain at saint georgeous, we're dead, go and newport violent, really fancy, and then you the brown for some more grad school. So we move to providence high level shit. This high level. sk opinion. Yes, I was a faculty rats. Kid. He had a lot of nice schools, yeah and that were via pen. a seminar in north western he taught at in Chicago and then a good cities. Man north carolina, raleigh, a chapel hill, close chapel held. I live cause. He taught it duke Oh, that's, pretty the only the only one that was well questionable. Rhode island, where brow, Is this brown in rhode, island near providence, yachts, rough town? It's gotten nicer! Ok, I mean twenty years ago, when I was there. I thought hey. This is nicer.

Well, I'm white! I all he knows my car got stolen there once and I've never felt the same about it. It could have happened anywhere, color, your perception town. Definitely there's a lot of things to do, and that's pretty high on the list. Yeah yeah, our stolen injured, those two things when you were doing a stand up: gig yeah yeah to stand up for the comedy place called in province back then it was called periwinkles, you think I was like an old. There was in Davos square, which are, I can't believe I'm remembering this, because I don't remember shit, you don't go back there anymore. No, I haven't been there in decades, but it had all the paintings on the wall of these comics and I was in a it, was in a mall and it was a pretty good comedy room, but I remember I I left that I I don't know. I think I got too fucked up and what happened was I I I went back home like I left my car to go, get it the next day, so I didn't get in trouble. in boston came back. There was no car wasn't toad, it was gone. It was stolen, gotta, my fault and other feeling. I was upset about the

There was in the car more than the actual car. Exactly you know that Healy yeah reboot guy. I was oh yeah I was now I mean I was bound to get to the place where I could rationalize the drugs. what we are doing is a learning tat. All of them really pretty much wonder that start before the acting Yes, yes, the miracle. The acting ever happened via average functional he asked. every functional managed managed yeah, a long time it got out ago. You are gonna weed. No. I didn't like we'd know: you'd illegally, boozing draw andrews and drugs margaret we'd made me really paranoid. oh yeah. How are you got well than a half? Oh yeah, twelve and a half year say at sixteen to in their fucking crazy nuts. I can't believe I, like they have part. Now, that's like so beautiful

That is that now I miss partners. I see those those stores whenever so gleefully, yet it in their pharmaceutical. Just like all, thank god it wasn't. I can just imagine how method it was just ass The marrow marijuana, who were the same to me loud acid, yearn asked guy. I know what I did that scared, the crap out of me a couple of times that we're really media me too right there is no idea is like for trips to whom were good yeah, the other two hours. Quite panicked united note, my friends like me, rice every you know what When you chip, everything turns. I I think I was. I think I got all that those same sheet yeah. so you're running around doing do an act do in academia with your dad. You have other siblings cameos too, for wow So how do you my age fifty four last weekend? That's carriers are good for you. Ok, let's talk like yeah yeah. Sometimes it's funny.

If I had a couple of moments this weekend on my fifty fourth birthday, where I'm at a happy birth. This is getting a little scary, great right. You look into this kitten. These are big numbers, your big numbers and start here about buddies or I am sick like oh yeah. If the guys are going down people going down yeah yeah, I know dude they're a little older than us. I know, but it's still it's not all of them now I know but yeah So how do you? How do you manage your being being progeny of clergy duty, however, a functioning spiritual system in place It was you two transcending the deter arising, fear of mortality, it some no extra his fairy tale together! I am from a lot of sources I know what I do. I don't think about it, you don't I try not to. I don't believe you know I can't handle

You know what I think about it. Read your dredge shield, niger but my dread and other things number dreading, the mundane. Are you? Do the dread? Channeling sure dread channeling drag reflection. Okay, I'm try that it's good. It's good, just moved the dread of mortality onto like fuck I gotta get up. Ok, I gotta do a thing I don't know I try not to try to think about when you reach up on me, as is what I'm falling asleep I'm just laying their there's. That moment worry where I go. I am I wake up and I got a really yeah yeah. That's why, that's gonna hit me how I seriously. For my frank, I really shouldn't be wasting my time. There's not much left, unfortunately, usually was one year old. Did you notice that I know this from last night? This is why I made you just make me some coffee, because I just didn't know I didn't pull off the sleeping, so good. Last night me neither buddy or bothwell groggy ram coffee, we're talking about death. Ten minutes in jerry,

We don't mess around. I was thinking about this anyway, freeing about it! No there is, No, you know I don't dumb. I dont know what to do with it really. Because I think that life is good and you know, I things are going pretty well for me by, but it's hard for me not to get to think it. Some kind of gyp in some way like you are right, when you get good, do you know, I get yourself you're working. You got your recurring rolls on television on the shield, radio, great right any doing these big. these. The iron man movies people, know you're the guy and then You feel great about everything in the world with additions What does go on for a while wait, wait, wait, easy way. right now. I couldn't do it. Why can I have the the? steady in the body of a twenty year old by. I guess that stupid. I don't ever think of

go back on better off now. Know I I I don't. It took me a long enough time to arrive at places like a happy marriage, no and having a care in working, because this that I really appreciate it yeah you're you're you're old enough and humbled enough to appreciate it. I know, isn't it didn't really think any of this stuff was going to happen? I definitely kind of put looked into the abyss of oh yeah, no, No. No. No I'm gonna be parking cards for somebody really into my into my fifty. When you get married it'll be fifteen years the summer wow, so you're awake, wait. Thirty yeah they thirty's must not too bad nuts. Yeah, I thought of it that way, like yeah yeah. This is the right time. I've been out there. You know I've done enough seasons, I'm really ready to quit and a and also, if you

to later. You think will this is my night? I mean I don't think I could actually be with somebody for fifty years without them wanting to kill me, but I feel like I could remain tolerable and tolerance. The finite period of like thirty forty right any married? An actress, yes, was an act, your father, indeed jennifer grain or father, Joel joel juice. Tells you rushed yeah? or not. They have brought me into the fold. Yeah yeah yeah. It's a lotta, that's about a jewishness. I know I come from. Jews do yeah yeah sure, is an exciting being, as pissed capellan wasp, now being integrated into a variant. general. I imagine in talkative bunch. You know. As I said, I had really gotten involved with David mammoth. In the theater company in new york in the theater community in new york for twenty year, I saw no, it felt like kind of I'm home

right very early on my wife, who said I'm going to temple for high holidays. I really want you to come here and I was like okay, I mean I have for outsider once he added thing is. Even when I was at a pistol churches, I always felt like a freakish outsider right, so it's going to be even more and upsetting to feel like. I don't belong at your temple it, but then I found a really dug with the rabbi had to say, and now I go by myself and my colleague you want to go with me, I'm going to shore of really yeah. She says now just on a friday saturday. on saturday, horror, study in the morning really yeah. Now these, but you didn't you didn't, dare convert you just got. I didn't. I mentioned it to this rabbi yet and I feel, like I kind of one on you know you safely. On the one hand he said you know it what are just wait in whatever you're comfortable wareham. Probably tenure into doing this I said: do I feel, like I added maybe I'll talk about making sufficient did. I feel like if I really want to be admitted to trading- and he said you know you ve been coming for years.

So I feel like you're already jewish really- and I was like I feel, like I'm- jewish right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah anytime. It's still something I'm talking about. I really, but if I do something I feel like, I I tend to be kind of all in I want to Just what I would like with bodily wanna get some hebrew down. You know it's, not the agony, use it's like algebra! You know you I already know so. Many songs and prayers right fanatically cure about me, like you know what I'm saying really I mean I I did that for my bar mitzvah. I learned all the songs and I can I can come may be read to me brute now, but I couldn't translate euphoria. yeah goes away- I'd never Was there I'm ok, talk me out of it. I'm not gonna. Do a bar mitzvah, I watched my daughter's abutments when she was very oppressiveness. I dont like that. She just lapped me, oh no, you can do anything, you can do it. did you see a serious man? I do

have you ever audition for the cohen's I have here. I have one or two I didn't play with. You can go in a couple years ago that he wrote the atlantic in new york and it was. It was called happy hour and it was three one acts and I thought it was so funny and people that much. I thought it was him, and I thought it was one of the funniest things that ever read theatres, tricky, isn't it I mean in terms of the audience who are you really playing for, like I've got had gone to see some recent theater and it still pretty old crew. That's I want see it on a regular basis to pull you know, you're really playing for old new york city, some intellectual, some for just on a subscription. You no idea who is really going out to its a funny balanced or crisis, was three one acts and the first one was kind of terrifying, india and about

a guy was having a nervous breakdown and I'm not sure people could really work their way back. A really at the tone of ours at the third with a third one which also the sillier. They were all different. They weren't all cohen's. They all were. They were all three placed by Ethan he's a terrific playwright that he just decided to put the the troubling. first to see if the others could follow. I dont know whom and I did audition for a couple of their movies, and I was have had this thing we're. When it somebody that I am truly. Reverent fan idea, not always here, but I can choke I really like the worst additions. No kidding I may be have ever done. We are the people I admired the most and I would have to put show anything at the top second man, the eye and how does that manifest itself on each hokey? You know you do your preparation and then you just get in there and you're like icao, fuck, there's a funny thing, there's so many variables. I I don't I'm not a big baseball fan, but it's like you go up to the plate and you think you are

You know what you're doing you hit the ball. Pretty often nea and you stand But you just never know? What's gonna become an aunt you, you never know how the rooms gonna feel that ray and right some days, you're like loud, I felt crappy, but they really seem to be not up another days you Jesus I'm really good. In the next thing you know you're having an out of body experience for your wife, find yourself in the room watching yourself in it prickles on your neck yeah, and you just see the guy watching you who is you is saying like we're ago. There's this they did it once I did it for a walk. They said like this she's not happening tat. I gotta go really, and I just laughed. Did you get that part I know the guy looks grateful frankly to good or the correct golly, the air that we before we get away from it. What is it about tourist study? What is about? tor in general that compels you

because your guy, they grew up in this area. Did you did you get a lot of the same stories I listen to from your father and from piss capellan, church, yeah old testament, stout old testament view here old testament stuff, a bit more. The focus on the new testament right- I guess I listened to this this rabbi and I, of course I was drawn to immediately be his name's rabbi, Mordechai family, so he's comes from irish people who use yet. Tunisia is an amazing rabbi. Actually, anna, conservative or a blind I'm told I don't have a lot to compare it right, but there are limits of, I believe, hasidic traditions that he likes, but its very reform in terms of three integrating congratulating is a young guy. I'll, say yes, but I think he's about five years older than me right now near, but it's not the reconstruction is jews dead. This word here her jews. Is it not that it matters that now? In fact, I would say that he's married to a wonderful

Rarely woman in ionic politically more concern. but then I am sure, certainly butter, the way that his boat he's very, very knowledgeable about kind of social psychology here and world work on yourself in ways that I, as a sober person, struck home for me sure, as you know, that's that that we wee we we put the this sort of framework into ourselves in and the beautiful thing the programme is it yet of your understanding, Sonia chippewa. Added, how you will exactly right, yeah and he, for example, very early on. I would go these things, never talk about exodus and a pass over the Jews getting out of his way of getting out of egypt and very personal. You know you! What's your egypt? What's the placed it you get to this

soon you will. This is gonna scary. Let's go back right and in far more complex terms, the man once it becomes once all the stuff becomes an inch lee examined metaphor for how you become a moral person. Why the world suddenly became very compelling to me. That sounds pretty good. No good! I got feel I going ok I'll, take it men. got it, but it's weird that lay a moral moral questions are interesting, because the only enemy of personal morality is rationalization and some level. that you know that you talk about that charter Daniel I'm here. Somebody me why me like you. What you negotiate see right there, or is there is personal value system that you abide by an end? if you're not beholden, to two real real of a real moral structure. You I've, becomes slippery. It really you can rationalize and what you can justify and what you can sort of the back burner

You know about you how you're gonna pay for that that become something you don't think of. India's certainly is an attic person. You know you don't think about wreckage. You you think about about necessarily, but you have to think about that. So part of for me, personal morality is, like you know, did from my mistakes, do I yeah do I know you have to be? as a decent person or a righteous person in this situation. I think in some situations I do other ones not so great, so few people that I come across seem to carry with them a desire to find out where they went off. You know the in relationships where the professional personal peoples, when you come across someone who says you know I have been thinking about this, and I think I think I wronged you yeah or you say to them. This didn't feel good to me.

And sometimes they say, I'm I'm sorry didn't feel good. Here's how what it was from my perspective you go. Oh here is something this rabbi actually says just because it feels bed doesn't mean anything. Anyone did anything to you sure, but sometimes they do. And where you come across people who know sometimes there's over people's eyes there, not right. Just spiritually, evolve people who say I want to own this, and I don't want to be that. I don't want to hear that to you. Yeah yeah, I've done a little, that's kind of cathartic, very humbling, yeah yeah yeah very yeah. Is your old man still alive yeah? He is he just retired a couple of years ago from the court We are from via from academia really more from academia. He was the dean of the chapel at stanford for probably fifteen twenty years and then really focused more on writing and being a professor. The last days We write some books, him dead. He wrote a number may as new one out and shared stories, rival tailings

is the title he arrived on. It used to be called. We have that story too, and it's remarkable book yeah about the stories that are talked about in the koran Torah and the christian text so really cause he's got kind of that level of game? The idea with art yeah it just came out. It's pretty great wow, so you'd grew up in there the deep thinking you I mean I was it was. happening in the house. Just not in my room, I was written, comic books did thinking downstairs. Upstairs comic will win. We start to to act. What town were you in? We were chapel hill. I was, I was more kind of a. I was more of a soccer player, and, and yet my homeroom teacher was was the drama guy, oh okay, and I must

been interested in it because I kept grabbing whatever they were doing hey. Let me read a few lines. It is MR curly area and he be tortured me into auditioning for something- and I did it yeah, what was it pauses? by needle Simon, where I played the walter math part, seventeen, haha and funding of art. It was fun, members come into the bathroom. That's all I remember and and must have stuck with me, because I then went to school in ohio to place her and when that, when I think the more the the The the drinking and drugging kind of became the major That was, I rose art. It was intense their media. I hadn't I had. I thought I was I dunno know. Chapel hundred canada was a strange place to come of age because it's a huge college party too,

yeah, and so we ended up at frat parties and stuff by minimizing or fifteen yeah yeah. I kind of trying to keep up with your crazy drinking coffee his kid sure yeah. No, I I grew up with that university new mexico yeah you got the one high school buddy, who knows the frat guy and then you're in is that, where you're from I grew up in albuquerque albuquerque, I spent some time there. You did an a on a shoot. The avengers was there one that big new complex at big news yeah, that's nice! I was there when I was growing up now they shoot everything there. They shoot a lot of stuff. There. Yeah family's from jersey grew up in albuquerque third grade through high school love. It well I liked it there it's kind of interesting yeah. It is that yeah there's parts that are sad but there's parts that are great. It's a beautiful part of the country yeah, so with that was which vendors movie the first one just deal Jesus the avenger Jeff. I was murdered in the evangelist, but it was really fun in a great script and agree on time. and then about two. A ten months later I gotta, causing you know,

These are comic boys, comic books and haven't we You might not be all the way dead end. So just weedon and this great guy Jeff Logan Josh's brother generally and his really talented wife, firmer tat you run within a made a tv show. I was another great round him Jeff balcony, marvels agents of shield shielded which the foresees a kind of focused around aging colson really die and then, actually by the embassies, you most? Oh he d, a high and they use rather dark stuff to bring him back and he's not a right at all. Now and that's a show. Your involved was now still it still Anthea and what season when we hear shooting at the last episode of season? Three, that's great. Yes, I like we employed and have been for a while, yet that I've been playing the sky for about eight years. I think really has it new adventures of old christine that long ago. Yes, I think it is holy shit

two thousand eight. Now it overlap the little bit it overlaps a little bit too. different roles. Man yeah, you ve. Good, a comedy here. You don't like it. You have a very unique timing. You that you don't sticky, you know you ve got like a person like you, one of those do that you seem to honour yourself in the role that transcend the jokes That really means a lot to me. Those are the nicest things to me. You could say about someone trying to do come yeah, you you know and it it's quirky and you always stand out and everything you do. It's pretty insanely, it's a it's a great attribute, that's really, nice! I I love Nobody else is more or less of its lately in it if shield my miss it a bit, but it certainly the plough We did a new york, they always had a darkness. the comedy and the tour which what I'm interested in- and I certainly find in my car and listening to comics are you on serious yeah the product yea, I didn't know a lot of those people. I never relieved her

it's a comedy clubs. I didn't I'd, never heard Mitch Hedberg, for example, until I started listening, disguise incredible. Yeah yeah, he was great, is very timely area. Yeah, but that's injured, because you as funny as ventures of all christine was, I mean there is a darkness to that dynamic I mean The weird sad relationship with the ex husband I mean that it is weird relationship and the fact that it was so warm in so as of congenial against her. You know her kind of neurotic being it was in dark, but I mean no your spot on it with Harry lies who wrote that show yet to meet genius and doesn't really appreciated until after the show was over. It has many we're friends now I think than when it was on and there's an unsentimentalism right to what she does. People are very.

each other out all the time right right and you are always like he, even your sort of a strange kind of like well boundary way. You always show for her, and there was never any doubt about that. Now now but she had wandered sykes on yeah yeah, whom I this, and yet this powerful comedy acting going on. Thank you and ensure Julia? We drive is right away that what a fuckin talent I mean psyche, it's like beyond she's hank Aaron, I mean she's, it is in the I dunno I dunno that people really appreciate it as much as they should. What what a, what a phenomenal like timeless comic talent. That woman as well also think about her to go from seinfeld, which is one very specific, kind of moscow on sentimental comedy too, show, which was a difference. I don't know how you would put them. Was it it was. A woman show stuck on a male network in array and then to go to reap navvies. Sir trip and install a little bit and sentimental she's all right kind of like now.

Article needy and in giving in her own way, but by what right? Sentimentality is not a lot of that fearless I couldn't do that. Wasn't my were seen she just whatever you want to bring it whatever is embarrassing or humiliating or personal. That's what I want yet that's where the funniest yeah you didn't start out in initially in comedy really what were you? What did you? What did you find yourself in a feels to me that you're, pretty intense, probably at the beginning, how so we met her. You know the eighties in new york. I don't know so we would we haven't. We did our own thing was ever you ended up after college. college was n y. U I left that school in ohio and I just dropped out and moved to new york, so I could go to punk clubs and listen to music and No, no real. You weren't pursuing the acting thing he now I just went to new york for the summer and went wild. This is I'm not going back

Oh hi, I'm gonna go to the mud, club and watch richard hare. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and now right time and re time there was amazing. Music was already eighty two so larger. How is your through their through the tunnel the joint generation and stuff yeah, but still a lot of great music yeah yesterday about music, almost every night and and I just live. There was a guard, the guggenheim museum and really just hang out in the form of a trinidadian dude named Skelly, who I knew from some. The beginnings of hip hop were really going on, and I liked that a lot too and I met some guys at some of these late night hip. Hop clubs in this guy Skelly got me a job there and My end, these guys do not if the guggenheim museum is a sure. Yet

if the descending circular ramp these other guards with data? You can't really talk much, but they had a snapping system. Oh really to let you know when they thought someone hot was coming down. I would see the women that these guys thought were hot. Coming down there. Let's see a lot of snapping like for real yeah, wow, okay, I'm fine broadening my perspectives here Did you have any relationship with the art? in any way are reaches doing a job. I started really just doing a job. They are for the most part but I fell in love with it. An ice guarded a show. A kandinsky shall maya and I just no use. I don't know that I would have You know and hung over, and we have it, but it might as well have been right wendy early twenties mindset ever stared at anything. That long and then I started to fall in love with some of this stuff in the dosage. Would talk about insects? Oh yeah, ok,

that's not in there, but what this is wow yeah. Whilst so do I owe you looming away? I was really your graduate work in a way tat. I d like to see it's not in the like as it sound like you were focused creatively by tat two years. But he read a painting a must have like kind of made. You realize something about creativity. I had done a player too at that school when I, when my soccer career was torpedoing and what there was this english woman who was the director and she said, get outta here get out if you're central ohio guy, because you are good- and I said, ok well- why this thing she s kind. I want you to help something and- and I went to new and dropped out and then a year later went back and finished it and why you and genoa stumbled. A friend who did in my band in Ohio you're in a band was an event that he play wade the drums pretty badly here, though, but it was upon

and now a new wave bent his way badly and fast You have asked and I sang ok. They said you know. We want you to vote on the drums you now you want, we want to free you up, so they brought my friend this amazing actress. Who's been my one of my best friends for thirty years now, Mary Mccann and they they put her in kind of don't know. What's the front, punk gear and she would sing the chrissy hind socks and I or two later she showed up in new york and said: I'm gone anyway. You hired you are too and weep kind of been together ever since creatively in she said I'm I'm in this cool workshop this summer, with this guy mandate and this young actor of his name, mason This was eighty two eighty three eighty four the euro atlantic theatre company. You know that It's just a workshop through land through and why you and had he, reaches american buffalo or anything he didn't britain, buffalo and chicago. I think he was there. Doing the first production glengarry-

and they started a program it and why you and she said, come on. Come on she got thy or everything. She got me to beg and borrow my way into that workshop and felicity half was there and I was a young man in a young, mace, Yeah firebrands method? The method is bullshit right. and of what it would mean. We're meissner distillers. We're already done forty plays and were thirty and my or distillers. Yes, they were against a method but promised her to asserted mammoths was, had his own version already. I may I read his books yeah. You know my my first wife was a student air in the way they early nineties. So I don't Mamet was not there, but you know they had the score at that time. Yeah and she was in It- and I used to hear about it- and I were you teaching no not really I was once in a while it fill in for somebody right and I read the book

Of course I romanticize the method and the people they came out of the method, and there was something you know china is the word utility, in about his approach to to acting or maybe tactical in the way that radical, they would say yeah while so, but but the idea was like what my problem with it was when I would take it in just as an outsider was like. He's just saying anyone can do it and then I have problem with that. Yeah I think that was part of it. Although I would say I would say it was reactionary, toast Can I get a kind of damage hungary, going on a lot at a lot of places, which is a few of you will be elected by the gods to carry this golden chalice to the mountain. Not you. You re an that's parts, bullshit of the arts or the hierarchy of the then the managers of the myth of the method, not even the method I I've come. You know some of the greatest actors. I'd have already we. Yet prs, moreover, meissner guy right, but to what,

works right. I've come a long way. I've come very full circle. I I take from everyone I work with. Well, that's what everybody says ultimately and and what would I think, a lot of people also don't necessarily say is that you know on some level with acting and certainly the ability, stand out on stage or on screen. Some of it is just a fuckin gift. Yeah in that just the way it is here is not necessarily talent per se is why some people just they're they're alive up there and that's the way you do yeah they're, not self conscious. They just have this thing presence yeah. So okay. So this is interesting to me, so you're you're hanging out with these guys and they're the revolutionaries because they're, like you know, oh yeah, fuck, the old new york style, where we're going to this, how These are men, talk it's time for this now it's time for this. That was really his thing. It was life changing I'd been in another studio there and which one circle in the square, which was amazing, but I had three or four different t all seeing different stuff, and I was

fused, an awful you know I didn't know what I was doing and to have somebody say this. A simple do this: do this its improvin tory figure out what you're doing and then it's never going to be the same twice. You have to get this person to do that and the text is gibberish and I thought whoa, that's very productive esteem I feel like I should be, suffering more in believing that I'm in you know moscow in eighteen, eighty and enabled then yellows freeing it was liberating for me later. I would go and you want to add back some things right. Sorry the ultimately they said like back stories. Important just find the emotion of you're gonna, find it make your choice and and get what you need. I don't think so that's to me asked what they were saying was Water is absolutely important in terms of how you analyze what it is you're doing, but you can only do one simple thing at once and that is play the objective and that the I think the metaphor was you know, you don't have to believe that your fyodor right

if you can, you might be a little crazy right. Like the magician having to believe that is actually producing a rabbit out of thin air right. It's the audiences job to buy into that and ditches we're trying to break down more simply what oh interesting what you could do, but then you have to personal to yourself, you gotta go beat for forbid, almost I mean in way was quite the opposite, which was in any given seniors like if you watch human behavior, a person wants one thing here: they shift based on new information but their bid. In any given exchange, the two people are negotiating a transaction of some sort right I want to get you know you too, he gave me this. I want this. This purpose woman to come home right and I'm gonna say or do whatever I think will happen- will make an app interesting and then you have to put them within a within a place specially, doing superhero stuff here you know

our people, to convince myself that I care a ton about whether or not this person comes in from the outer plan to rescue this person. I may have to think about something. That's a little closer to my family and you do that yeah, you got a job, yeah sure, so ok. So tell me about like how you become. Are you a founding member yeah? I am so at the beginning. You just meet these young guys were for fucking young person a year and they're gonna tear it all down. Also, I mean that's kind of the myth around them, also just the kind was generous kind people who really lies. I said there was this culture this is not. This is its the navy steel training three view will survive this. The rest of you will ring the bell that was kind of a culture of acting training in new york when it are you in with a lot of love of the art, but that that can beat

sold down. I dont really by it. I feel like a lot of the peace People said all that person will never make it have become the most successful artists who came up at that time, and sometimes it may not be enacting, could be an online in directing could be arriving at a if you're in the culture. Sometimes find your own way to go. Get a talent, and these guys like you guys, are amazing. This has fantastic, you can do if this is as good as it gets, what you just did- that simple work you just did is as good as it gets, and that was freeing and at the end of I dunno why we had a semester sure we'd a semester in way. You and they sat down at the end of it. My bill and dave. And said there we're gonna do a protection of the cherry orchard at the goodman chicago. Do you want all come? It was thirty people have one just packed up and moved and we got him why you credit we became

at the good men and we study there for another three months at the end of it they said you are who wants to go to? Who wants to go to vermont form a theatre company will be on the board was yeah was to her. He said, don't sit there, trying to get a commercial audition, do bunch a place starve so we ve taken on an over the next six or seven years. We did fifty plays and starved in vermont chicago for months. with chicago cargo than new york and then we would go to not the summers and ghana and get out of the city and you were doing you know historical plagues, mostly new american plays really hustle. I was the artistic while our reiner on new york and a messenger bike, two different agencies trying to get whatever good,

ways they had that no one would produce. So this is exciting. So when did that, so you start the company, when did they they build the? When did they take over that building over there in the twenties, whatever that that he ran a twenty street and as we were, I guess it was about was about three or four years after we founded the camp and we ve been chicago in new york and being a nomadic theatre company was just a dead end. Aha you're always turn a rent is, Listen, I there was a play: I had found when we were doing that play at lincoln center, because I went to their associate artistic director and said: what are you not going to produce that's good and they had this amazing play called distant fires about a mixed, const. A mixed construction, crew, black eyes and white guys in baltimore in the seventies and initial, I kind of get along kinder and then there's a race riot in the town and they don't and it kind of tears them up as a crew, and it seems we are very archaic and then

went to- and I I put it up in new york and did pretty well- and I went to that theater and I and tarento and they were losing it and it was owned by the episcopal church, and I said I can't believe this My dad has been of zero help to make it in my professional do you know when you were involved in the are admissible dies, of new york- and he made a call and in how we somehow took that's based. Twenty years ago, that was you, I don't know who I mean, you know where you lot of people helped, but that that you're dead showed over. He really did, and I must add and and it is true that he was sceptical of your journey or deeply yeah. I don't know why. I didn't come from a family, headed tradition of the arts. In writing. They were certainly loved the arts, but it wasn't. Did you were was it how he did it get in terms of his? approval or no not like that I think they're, usually just nervous yeah

now that I've got a daughter, I'm sure they ruin our lord case thirty's. not making any money right right, that's usually when it comes down to. It that their judging you were. They there just stayed. There are concerned that you're gonna end up with nothing yeah I think, based on their stuff? They knew about me from growing up. I thought this was just another way to avoid growing outright the boozy kid yet the troublemaker who gets dates nor now he was reactor exactly, but what about to get behind it. Pick up. I've been very, very support once you showed up in and came to see that play always show that we did that play at the episcopal charge and play the peaceable church. It did well, if we want to move it to a bigger theater where you're just at the art director were you in it. I directed that play yeah. I wanted to direct that player to see if there wasn't a role for me, alright, and then I came out here to try out pilot season which was disastrous, but I lifted the riots out here. I thought this is chris

and that all of a sudden, his play about riots was suddenly very germane. Yeah and- and I became obsessed with putting it up here because I just thought people had to see it yeah and did eventually SAM jackson a great cast and when my dad came and saw that cause he'd been a a civil rights worker in the sixties, and I have a big liberal. There was something when he came to see that I felt like he went. Okay, I see what he's on about how good and what? What about? What about mammoth wait now working because, like I was sort of obsessed with him as a person, Has he amazing person right in in, like you know, he seemed to really sorted know he'll, like he cut a very powerful presence, in the world to me somehow I very powerful presents one of the great writers. I've ever read, write I saw. I saw american buffalo in in Boston with patina I was in college while and

it change my whole life in terms of what theater was because, like you, you may go. How would you see a lot of ok plays? I acted a little bit and some place, but I wasn't in fear score anything, but I will to that and I was like holy shit, just the set decoration and and and and just gino owning that character, was in the language of it. It was really the last poetry right and then what sort of got into a little bit like you know that I saw that this was his style that he liked to play this. This rapid fire poetic in a rhythm with that mostly male language and and I became sort of fascinated with there- wasn't brutality, but there is definitely a momentum to and I started to you- will read about him little bed. I felt like he's overcompensating me, but yet but this is the vision of this guy. You know n n n. It runs through all this shit. I will like that. Fuckin movie,

the weird movie with the algarve baldwin and anthony hopkins like like a movie, because that there is no one really rights sort of like man shit like you like mammoth. Does you not, since I guess packing paul, even in movies that there was. This will focus on the dynamics of men. Oh yeah, I mean I mean glengarry yo no examined areas like arthur Miller, levels of savagery of capitalism, yeah. No doubt the honest soul of liking or down to write the bet there's a lot of willie romans in there, you know. There's like for you, everybody's tap dancing. Pleading down the drain, yeah so What was she like as a person work with what you are directly from him, just a work ethic or ah so much I mean I it's lucky Isn't that ever happened to me? Are you guys still pals yeah? I see him. I see him in santa Monica here, yeah he's here. Oh wow yeah he's that there's a reputation you know a kind of

watch out me irritation. That just bears very little resemblance to the guy right now who had been this, visionary generous mentor, nature I ran the theater and he was on the board in all, I would go to lunch with him to talk about the place we were going to do and I couldn't make a sentence: I would be so nervous and years later they put me in a couple of his movies and stayed main or spartan and gave me really some of my first breaks? Aha as an actor yeah and the state and maine as a big cast man that was some that was really fun. It was a fun movie yeah, was one of these better ones. I thought really funny yeah, he directed at yeah, so you start ina by you start when movies you came over for pilot season, but you were mostly theatre, guy theatre, director and theatre actor. Yet- long time you did a lot of you second hand, eight, ten, eleven you. What do you think is the importance of theatre. You do too tori every night,

If it's slow or if it's not grabbing him, you feel it like. You hear the chair start to creak. You hear people coughing. How to you know, do the fast parts fast and slow parts slow and an you. You know you also learn when you're gettin stale they have reduced. If you just kind of, I know how to do some the of this moment you gonna lose people and you can stay yesterday in janet people exam rock. Well, you know what those people out there. Really it's jazz here, you don't know what they're going to do up. You better be ready to go with it right and and when you say you know of your career but like what do you think it means culturally? What do you think the culture of theatre where, where it's at or what it's supposed to do, what what's the importance of it? Wow man messing around one meal you hear about. That is when I like it, it's good. It's a really good question. I dont it feels in some ways in the digital age, archaic, art form, which is why to see, Hamilton and I'll call this guy.

sport is another. Thirty years of relevance right, the theatre, yeah the others, something a media and live about its human human. You feel it did I now I ve been going to more of it. You make it sound like sky, don't go here like I don't we go much, but every my go specially music. musicals immediately start crying for reasons out even of just I see that you and I would even if out of myself as a musical purse right, I kind of avoiding me the other gag bright in new york here, but then my and her family, their musical people. They are re sure and I started to go. She musicals with current sobbing, just in its We happy issue is theirs. There is inhalation to so many people singing, there's a vulnerability to singing and dancing that I can't, even I don't even know what it does to me, but I would literally like choked up the entire time. Oh god, I thought it was me and asked me. I believe this summer musicals it's a direct.

main line right to your soul. It is when what they're doing in the story matches the cords That's your hearing and maybe there's a dynamic her. Yet it's a tat if it's good taps right in but, like a you know like, I know that that that is supposed to serve airbus is like I get hung up on the this. community, relevance of fear. You know that you want one community like that, theater was supposed to be important, the reason it is important is because of that that very vis human element that there is there there. There is a natural melody to the event, there's a connective nest, the event and there's the pie the ability of of I don't know what by the EU

I feel it living and breathing in front of you, because it's right there you can hear the four boards. You know there there's something about telling stories like that. That is irreplaceable. Well, you know I. I sense that, just from listening to your podcast, you can probably think of the four or five best concert you ever saw probably and I can and and when you think of them it gives you chills yeah, and I can do that about a couple of concerts that I saw the rgb a couple other places right and I can also think of the four or five even in the theater, when I saw something just crack at all open here in a big group here and, as you say that I think are now I used to have at its movie it is to write, but those. Maybe maybe world this gonna end up in these weird. coons. I think that's the plan. I mean that seems to be the the solution to all. The problem is to just make people stay at home, don't have to shop anymore and everything just comes right to the heart we're putting ourselves in those matrix batteries yeah. We are kind of yeah and the little cocoons. Yet

is it sorted, it is disturbing, but there. But now it is. We are craving for something the guy. I feel, like you know, when I go see these plays in any baker, wrote it in a book and stephen careless way that that there is a rule, is just about finding the. Also it again in bringing people People will come here, you're used to figure out how to get them there as they say they know when their complacent, nay. No, you know when deadening, even when you're locked in your computer, I mean- I don't know anybody who and doesn't go on my phone too much. The we know. We now we now man we do who asked. Why? Can I put this to hammering I don't even want to be looking at. This is, if I add up the amount of time I spent on this versus how much I wrote this week like I'm writing something right. If we are really sad to hear the eighty, but I think that the debt that because we know the others hope so

When do you feel like you really? You know you had your big breaking in movies. When did you feel like on screen. He really. I know it is coming any moment now. I it's a good question. I don't know because you ve done a lot of movies any been allowed. You had a lot of smaller parts and yet some of them the approach we're pretty small right. I did a lot of smaller stuff of a wonderful guy who another player at a new near poor whites took a shot on me in a movie called in good company. I love that movie I fucking love that movie. It's a really good movie about that. That's what he had to fight for me, topher grace to grace and Dennis quaid e scarlett. I loved that movie I saw it and I'm like what. How can more people don't know about this movie? It was this week, tire movie, and so I played there kind of. I played the kind of dick s. Young boss, yeah topher grace yeah. It was a really good part, really well written, really good and they fought funny the only music that you have to go to a screen test. You got to hear

if they don't want to, they don't want to make this happen. We're going to make this happen, so I was lucky. I had somebody fight for me a little bit and he found the funny in that thing. Thank you I and then em. of another power minor rider were bill, rouble got me a gig gonna willing, grace anna and One episode and I had so much fun doing it active, debra messing and sean Hayes, and these guys in a really funny writing and carry laser who created them. But this guy's just got me the job, vulnerable playwright friend of mine from new york or atlanta guy. yeah and I'm kerry? Laser was another writer on that show and she was doing new adventures of old christine right, and she remembered me from that and she got me that job so people, you know people The may show business and showbiz, but you had the goods you got the good and so when howard I like it because now, like with all the now that I know you had all this experience directing yo play and you know that I see that you- u adapted and directed choke, which way A fund movie almost

reminiscent of like joseph power like of the catch twenty two and that that type of seventy is sort of carnal knowledge surrealism, like a lot of weight, just watch carnal knowledge again, haha, my god, that's a good move, oh god he's so against Nichols. I'm so sad about like MIKE Nichols moves exactly those What movies has joined to Carl knowledge really something here and they were, I think they pray, both hold up pretty good. He like he really committed to ike. Is his interpretation of a fellini ask trip through those things seen catch twenty two in a while. But I I couldn't remember everything that happened in carnal knowledge, so we rented it again recently how this is to adjust its deep. is disturbing sober like it. I felt like some of that kind of the the insanity of.

that made its way into choke me. That's a pretty crazy choke resume a great book, a great, really dark out their book here by chuck panic and I thought fight club was an astonishing book, pretty good movie to pray great movie mandate but I thought this guy's onto a kind of satire, I'm not seeing anywhere yet, and I had I'd come out here and not gotten any work as an actor And- and I had directed that play in one of the agents at my agency said. You know the right way, the right places and fire said you know you should try to make a movie, and I said okay. I would like that. I won't do that. How do I do that, and they said we write a script that is so good. They'll overlook the tremendous liability of having you attached as director hundred advice. Ok, good, that's what I'm gonna do it and I and I started writing and I almost got something made and then they hired me to real options from chuck how'd. You do a worrying contact with him. The first thing I wrote, I wrote as a job for dream works in it, because

this movie, what lies beneath right, lucky right out of the gate, big move as big marilla thriller, and then people sent me this this. Would you adapt this book? It's really differ. Bell says someone else has an addicted colonial theme park warrior? Will they kind of had right, and I said, and I read it and I went oh fun book this- is I connect with this guy who's kind of overly sexual, but has terrible intimacy issues for some reason: Adam Dinah, you know, I got you and I, and so are you. I opted for me and it took me a couple of years, but we got it made and I called sam requirement How can the naked play? He acid, hey in mind, be naked in this play? Yeah, I'm gonna make you naked in a movie here and he was in and he was in the air game. he's very colloquially, complex, difficult wrong. Guy is Amateur not chosen. A man is hamlet. He finds the thing. has given an amazing performance here, so you really you really sort of

Traveled all the roots in not just show business, but it as an actor in and like you, you come from what real grounded tradition of like you know, knowing your craft and being a stage director and then, like you know, doing this other thing with a certain amount of a not innocence but like, be exciting to make a movie for the first time I loved it yeah, I loved It- had nearly killed me, but I loved it. Anna, it's it's in outgrowth of the same stuff, havin, a theatre company. You know you, it act in one. You do the lights on the next one you'd have direct. Why rise all storytelling, you're thing, arms back and forth what you're doing you gonna become a better actor from directing a little, and vice versa? For that yeah, that that is really what theatres about when do when you're in it like a theatre company and if you just a lotta times have said this before it you your little bit song in somebody else's mix tape and you

want to get in there now do the arrangements and write the song and see how something that you can cook up. We are out of nothing here that affects people, sure yeah, and in doing so, what's the plan I mean I, what must be would stand up. we I mean, will stand up your ear. You know for me is what am doing I keep like now. I can trying to you know: do some new material and I've been shooting a tv show for six months and writing and shooting it and the stand up, which is what I've always done? Yeah was you know that's my lifeline, that's the core of what I do, whether I'm success for not whether people, knowing that always ensure that eighty, I yeah that's my ground, zero. And you know it's like getting back up their enshrine these new things and in I write on stage. So it's all very ill. You don't do you just you're out there talking about what you expect gazettes when it comes off like, but that's what I You know end and that's how they form. I dont know how to do it at this easier ways to do things by but, like I started talking about this thing that happened in it

my guy I've gotten vary in in long form, but like doing it very diligently like I've gotta make these beat work, although through, like you're, taking a story not just like telling about my life by your word of the beats work I go with it. Challenge for me. Now is to take these things that become long form things bring stuff into them. Take em a direction that surprising. Annie and have laughs all along the way. That's how I challenge myself within the last few years, this fairly nuke, as I have a fearlessness that wasn't there is a younger man. Are you trying to get through it and he has it so personal? You see it sounds like you're being very stream consciousness, I am all times times you wasn't that make you feel hear here my thoughts and what, if people, don't four year happens. You know but like like, as you know, because the package, because of You know how I can go out on here, which is really you like some of this stuff, I said to beginning the park ass. Stick in my

rain and like it might be able to build that out at this stage, peace. So so it becomes a workshop here and then I go workshop it again. Young The beats, but it very exciting, as armenia now magda I've been working this bit for two weeks is one fuckin bid and everything I do it because I don't I'm not restricted by a written thing. Like things happen, like I love, that's with that. If I do in our show that the mai, we can all enjoy the most is like that. One moment right never said a that. Never happened before. I never said that before now I can remember, because when you got there would when you're up there, you drift past kind of the age rapacity, but I've come so liking. I want the audience. I want to solve the be right here. I don't want a fourth wall situation. I I really try to create, did the same they intimacy I create here is where I get. My emotional needs met this his I'm not out of that, but the buggy, my relationships in the most vulnerable gonna be is talking to you

I know not it's not that my girlfriend doesn't like to hear that, but it's just that. That's what have I been I've evolved into because the audience will go home, you'll leave and then I'll be like. Oh, that's, that's, but that's exciting thing for me is that'd, be so present that things happen on stage and that's where I get the stuff and things are delivered. I don't know where they come from. When people ask me I was, writing price processes like I start with idea. That's funny enough, and I get on stage, and I wait. I keep do until the thing comes and then in one night out of my mouth mike. Thank god a year later, that pits finally got a punch line when it was funny enough without it, but now it's I stuck with it yeah, but it's it's a crazy way to work, but it's a it's very exciting. That's how I do it yeah So what's the plan man so now you know you got a family, he had a daughter and you ve You know you ve got a job now are you are you? Are you gonna do,

act in right as it feels like that's what needs to happen. You know I wrong. Every greater every grid, blessed, has a another side, I'm busy twenty two episodes of now in television sets. We finish in a cup weeks and mental. Have about three months. Does you there's a script? I wrote for some who else that I now may be directing theirs. I been writing that something I've been working on off and on for fifteen years, so yeah leave it alone for eight years. I come back yeah, that's something I miss I'm hungry for that now, but you know you're employed now that I'm employed your healthcare bridge making some good money insurance ass best he s good, lotta years with no insurance. Will you know you know it's good, it's it's hard to find that time to to do the things that you know yeah that yeah that uh. But you know you you're, you will do you know what I mean

I feel, like you get to a point where you know you have the rhine and nearly all of you to do the job with a television show and and it's gonna what it's gonna do and then eventually, if here you know compulsive enough, you'll be there's this my window, I'm compulsive enough. Those great talk really great talking to him thanks for coming. Thank you. that was cool I like learning about theatre, it's a new thing, open in my heart and learned about the and that I enjoyed you're not about here the atlantic theatre group. There also go check out deputy pod dotcom sponsored by square space right yeah I'll play a guitar it

and hmm. the Yeah and burma.