« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 706 - Sturgill Simpson / John C. Reilly

2016-05-12 | 🔗
Sturgill Simpson has all the makings of a classic country star, complete with an upbringing in coal country, a job on the railroad, and the stamp of approval by country music legends. But as Sturgill tells Marc, he's not interested in being country's savior. He just likes making music, especially for his son. Also, Marc plays a little teaser clip of his upcoming interview with John C. Reilly, in which they talk about John's crazy new futuristic movie The Lobster.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right, let's do this? How are you what the voters, what the fuck bodies, what baxter's, what the fuck a galaxy, its mark marin? This is deputy up. This is my. Pod gas. Welcome to it today on the show, the the amazing sturgill simpson is here country, music, singer songwriter, sturgis simpson, and I got a few it says that I'm want to share with you from a talk I had with john c riley, who rob by not the full thing, but why We all taste gives you got thing opening and I'm a good sport I am saying quid pro quo, You dig that's right here. Coming date, some do and before I go on tour officially these spoke in comedy club and spoken Washington July seventh, through ninth
I'll be a wise guys again, favorite club of mine in salt lake city Utah July fourteen through sixteen and I'll be, The comedy club in rochester new york September night, and and even go to deputy pod, that calm swash tour for links to get tickets tickets will go. sell soon for my dates in blue. Can indiana and feeling arizona. Also before I forget some per, no business. Here we want to thanks to MIKE moon my moon from just coffee, he's the guy who reached out ass way back in the day and started working with us when we were broadcasting out of an office kitchen, sam seed or on a show, called break room, live he's, leaving just go before another company, so Why to say thanks to mike for this support, for all the beans over the years and good luck on your new venture their mike mike he boy, MIKE moon, rose in the car be up there in wisconsin,
I'm actually honestly drinking a cup of just coffee. Carbon. This for you, MIKE, is for you might moon just copy now, moving on to other things, this thing that we weren't so sure I was pretty sure about, but you weren't so sure about it at the beginning, mikey, but here doing. This really is a classic classic. Ah look out just shit. My pants just got go up, available devotee of pod, dotcom yeah, that's for you I don't know I won't even listening or where you ve come in on this thing, but tat. Story on that unjust copy specifically- was that when SAM cedar myself hosted a streaming, video show the very few people watch I'll break room alive, the actual break room at tat what was left of air america? We not gets monsters. Nobody, nobody
there is a there's, like maybe at add a peak thousand people fifteen hundred people watching the damn shall we go, live from the break room. And and MIKE moon, said just coffee be willing to to sponsor of vigo dig up videos? break room live with me and sam that what the Fourthly, the the actual d, for their sponsorship was that they would send us boxes of coffee. They'd, send us a shit on a coffee, and we all kinds, just copy stickers- and and branding all over the brake room like up on a bulletin board, behind us. They were first guys, man, the first company to believe in us in me- carried him all this time, joyfully and I made the add up that just ship- my pants power just shit, my pants, which was the imaging they wanted, but sometimes you got it thus the guy got The guy in the mike
pow I just ship. My pants is not not some makes you want to do yet. Necessarily your bike, coffee, but kindly does right kind of does a lot of people during their first cup to get that thing going? I was too I believe that just copy that d, w E f pod blend, is still best selling coffee on their online sales. And we are happy to work with them I was really one of the first time to be, as we meet me in myself in Brendan my my business part and producer, where we actually that the show could have an impact on a business, and we were they were with us at the beginning, and we started doing that thing. It was the first time we actually saw you- know the power of believing in a product like I enjoyed that I like doing ads for and that I like for free food. That and it did it, it was a big both for their business like tremendous and it was a
it was one of those strange moments where you like. We were, I guess we're were kind of entrepreneurs. Now we're doing a thing go business going here. Yes, I was kind of fun. Let's do this now because I'm good chauncey reilly by the garage a few days ago. You gonna hear them. Conversation with them next month. but we usually like aligned things up with projects that people are working on and we were unable to do that. Would you new movie, the lobster which opens in theatres tomorrow may third ain't, so here's a here's equipment and John c really talking about the lobster and sitter this a little teaser for the folk, conversation that is a forthcoming and and and great, actually tell me about the movie come here to promote because, like our Will you not always honesty in this particular area? I tried to watch it, but
link when work, Couldn't I own that's better than I thought sleeve, and I know I can actually sometimes when they since greenery on line. If you put a password that I read or write like can, link does not work we're? Just? Let me somethin send me a semi, a fucking thing. There is like a more so nobody semi, so much of their someone's trying to convince me to go on a tv show the other day he sent me to link the sailor, The tv shows like this in I wanna be fine Here is a link to the idea of what it's like. So I hit the link immediately says you have to have an app for this right fuck you rattle I'd have enough ass. Yet one of the usa, so it doesnt work right. what they do they gayest greener. I didn't know you were so like that, but there is
it's safe. I movie right. It's a movie called the lobster Vienna directed and written by this great greek director name, your boss, land, the most, who did a really great movie called dog tooth with. If you get a chance, see dog to wonder if one of the best movies of my lifetime, I think really, yes, ok, and so this is his first english language movie yeah. It's called the lobster stocks cowan pharaoh rachel, vice myself, less adieu archives. I like her rachel vice like seeing her. Well, we should go issue. Did you get that work in body. Because right did you see that movie youth is out what it was called that one last year you I didn't see it. It's italian movie right, good man and You know I'm not the big foreign movie guy like, but it's like it
at a foreign movie, obviously, but it's definitely in an art movie with a lot of poetry to it, but it works, and it's like really compelling and Michael Cain is great I'll- have to see them, but okay, so What were at one stir it takes place in is not so distant future where it is illegal to be single and the government is a sort of arthur, authoritarian, oppressive government and if you lose your partner or your wife, they die or they leave you here. You cheat on them and whatever then your sent to this prison. That looks like a very fancy hotel, a four star hotel here and you sent to this hotel to find a new companion, and you have forty five days in which to do it and if you don't
someone in forty five days here. You are turned into an animal of your choice in this transformation room. Now, that's the only science fiction, part of the movie they want to know. I just couldn't boris like the frogs and magnolia jump already happened, whatever appear so that so so everyone who at this prison is desperate to find. So we all have to wear the same uniforms and like blue Blazers and there's always bizarre rituals were trying to of a single people in, and so you have these forty five days and then, if you so the way you can buy more time to find a partner at this prison. Is you go out in these hunts with guns? eliza guns here and in the forest, our people that have run away from society called loners who, who don't wanna be in couples. for that, but there allowed to live on the woods or what another not allow other the governance hunting for them, but but there
they're on their own right, rather all her own strict set of rules about only being single no one can be romantic, no dancing, no, each other. No yang lawyer, and so the people from the prison go out every, it proved audibly only surprise hunts and then, if you, for every loner that you tranquilize and bring back to the prison given another day to find a partner at the prison. So it is an incentive programmes. So as long as you keep capturing loners, looking indefinitely keyboard for a partner at this prison. But if you run at a time and forty five days, you get turned so com. Ferrell's character gets in the way if he ran it. He wants to be a lobster if he, if he runs out of time, he says, oh, I'm going to be a lobster, what a weird choice, so anyway so this, but it's a
We really amazing move in a lotta younger people, especially people, know twenties and thirty's. When it should it can. It was a big hit among those people because people struggling with relationship are and what should I get married? What is married, but his love. Do you know? I think we're in this moment in time were like gender roles are getting more fluid and here at the same time as people are doubling down on traditional roles, isis and whoever the fuck are doubling down on women's roles in men's roles and exerting this controlled and yeah things like like they were two thousand years vs of the there's. This other thing that's happening, I think, even all that orthodox kind of in an extreme is still happening in re in reaction to what is actually going on in the world, which is, slowly, evolving gender flu, anything that's happening, and can he found
kids enjoyed the movies, so people who are who are dealing with That's right now I love this movie because it's all about it, you know what is this pressure? a b with somebody like. Why can't you know why can't I just you know alone and figure it out here, and then also people who have been in relationships for a long time also really like it, because, like dunno, if you're married, there with someone, but yet to be around the aid that we are, and you start wondering like wait. Did I just randomly choose this person? you know what I mean I could I told my do and could have could have just as easily picked. Some else and then I'll be married to them for twenty five years been just out of habit or what I might find a way to love. That person that I randomly picked right or is there really a thing called love and that's what I have my partner and that's right, so he so for people who are struggling with like what is love,
you say. I love you. I love you. I love you said so much. What was really me his anxious in question, so I just have a conversation today with a psycho Worse, I psychologist as you get older, think it starts to get more relative to start to go a word. What have I been saying awaiting? What does it mean? Yeah? What is it me is love commitment is love. Acceptance of another person's differences from you what is it so? The movie really traffic's and all that stuff, and it's very funny near its got. This really dark dark comedy, and I want to give this guy some praise that that I that's gonna sound like over the top, but but I ll explain why this director, europe nervous land, must, I think, is the closest thing I've seen
two stanley kubrick, aha, because he has a strict formality about the way that he shoots here. He has a sick, sick, cruel sense of humor here and at the same time, he has this kind of optimistic acceptance of the way human beings are with all their fucked up quality, and so, Yeah, so they so this, so this guy is not working on a scale that cubic worked. I'm right but if he got a little more money or you get a little more support, I bet he would start moving in that erection. So this was a great experience for you. He's got a real, interesting, very unique style and acting in them This is also very unique,
but I really only mandy seed yeah. I was forced to work in a way that different and I worked before. What is that? Will you see, there's like people give less the actors give less behind his movies, which makes you can fill in the blanks more as a viewer is what kind of a deadpan effects affects, and that was a direction well, knowing previous work, you know the way he works, like all of us, were turn a channel. That cannot wait but anyway it's a really really interesting movie and- and I think people are gonna love it very ago. That's some junkie talk rise way out of here. Now They go that my job. And me and john c riley full conversation. While you know we're good talk and he's not united loves to talk about south, but we found it.
Do it is pretty amazing, very surprising conversation about some of the things that John likes. is acting. Stop him and me Eight, it was really and I'll be run in that next month. Today, though, soon went away sturgeon simpson country music, to say I grew up with it and I did but just adjacent to it. I grew up in kirk in new mexico. And yet they had the state fair and every year, the state fair that have what you have different country act roy clark and buck owens. A b may be a georgian jones here and there may be a willie away when a member when the outlaws came through a member that record around I'm ever pick up tracks. Member cowboy hat, I went to a camp where We had to have a cowboy had an cowboy boots in order to go that camp, because we were going to be assigned a horse. and yeah that's part of my life we were signed a horse. We had to bring a fly fishing rod where we fly fish in the stocked pond.
we made our own flies. I've done that I had a cowboy at stetson, the straw kind. We learned how to bend it up, so it was cool where it bends in the back and bends in the front at a point, because there was either accounts were named gill, whose will weird little weird Gale was a little weird. Babies are real. A boy, so we taught us how to fold our hats and we a cowboy boots. We have our pants and my horse was aimed mom mom the name my horse an mom would now, saddle her currency, a kind of whipped around bit me in the side. I cried like a fuckin baby, my boots and hat, and an ever since that day been paralyzed with fear forces, but that aside. I do enjoy country music appreciate it longer. Yet more as I got it, there's some very happy to have sturgeon on the shore. But I would like to discuss if I could the mystery blood on my porch. I do.
I want to discuss the mystery blood blood on the porch maybe that's my country song blood on the tracks, sedition record blot on the porch That's my okay! So maybe maybe, as I unfolded story to you, they will fight country song in it. Ok So I went out of my portsea other morning and there were drops of blood on the porch and I found them down the driveway and they stopped and then a little while later I notice it up on the wall. On my porches brick wall, there was ever to whittle puddles a blood. Would some blood it's not a little blood, not so much blood rights. I thought I was gonna find dead animal or dead person in my driveway, but there was blood. I automatically assumed it was my guy, my wild guy scaredy cat who had been freedom for a decade. We have seen through some shit who has been bloody before and has disappeared for months at a time. I thought this was it. This was
and scary cat. This was the end of the of the monster, the beast that is, that correct that cat who I have a love hate relationship, though I enjoy seeing, was actually the cat that push boomer out that push. we're out beyond the parameter into the the jaws the coyotes or into hopefully a nice, a mexican home down the street. Don't know we don't know that mystery remains unsolved, but I know this fucker, who I assumed was dead, It is one of the reasons it boomer split, so I got an issue with him, but I like seeing you know I can't get involved with cap politics. I don't know their shit roles, so trot and a what fuck, it happened. I don't know whose blood it is and then I realized hey how about that, security, camera you installed, fer a stock maybe that would help you with, wounded animals, so I'm gone. Security, footage and dumb gabby, with the no one looks good on security footage. Everybody looks like a fuckin kramer.
but I saw no animals except prosperity, of all the times and an end I shot of to massive fuckin raccoons who did works aspect? Ok, here's the point, here's what happens so I agree if, as I do when, when these dumb shits disappears and two days later. He shows up not wrong with them. Nothing! Now, god damn thing wrong with that cat not that I was disappointed, but I'm, like I said to my said, would you do man? Would you do you know like bacon said to champagne at the end of mystic river. Would you do which, whose you kill? What did you do it just looked at me with a dumb face? I fed him some food so it's a mystery man. I don't know why my camera did not pick up a bleeding animal that looked like spent some time, my fuckin porch or It was just a wandering person who had a bloody face and then
rested his body face on the wall of my porch. For a moment, and wandered off we'll never now, because the camera fuckin fails me So our country song in that is there some there man, so sturgeon simpson, as said there's something beautiful about his records, his son writing and the production he produces record himself is directors, I believe, were produced by Dave. Cobb he's got a great sense of classic country production of what country music south supposed to sound like an used to sound like, but with a little tweaking. I think, as sturgeon learned a lot from a working with the with dave. I also would like to say that that sturgeon, I talked a bit about the late merle haggard. He was dead when we took
too bad a man when we miss merle, I do miss merle. I love merle love, George, a lover wayland like willie. I, like I like Buckin roy, I, like tammy, you know what I'm saying man, his new album sturgis sailors guide to earth is available. Now it's a beautiful wreckers, very person record and that we talk about that record so enjoy mean sturgis simpson, they picked up the J, forty five, my living room, and that was that Europe Europe. m string, wizard no manners of live the national yeah. Ok, long enough to know that I am not a guitar. We're really trust me world, but there Is there a moment there where you're like goddamn it? I thought it was pretty good yeah, oh for sure, it's like I'll, never be able to do it that guy just did so. I guess I'm going to focus on this whole writing thing. Got in you got into that. Like is to the point where they
you're doing a record and they go like caused or don't want you just kick Isn't this one right now, man just yeah cause. I guess that's sad because for all you know, when I was a teenager, he also cared about was playing guitar right and but then I just really, you know or frown. I guess what I'd say is my my real voice, right, where I can say more with this than just this giant expression of anger and ego right. That sounds great commercial, fifty watt flexi, but you know yeah and there's guys in town that just floored me so I was so impressed by, like I gotta find a way to play music with these guys. You know just so what we playing like in high school and stepping movement weatherman across the game? like long hair yeah. What was stringy greasy potted near your car, where you drive and I well. Unfortunately, It's an eighty eight toy corolla, because I'd organ mcdonalds oh man there, but now had like an older cousin who showed me all the wrong record way to you
like what what were they were, then all the zeppelin box and drinks and had the next door neighbor like the token bad kid, with the chevy nova, who was in high school and nova when appetite for destruction came out and I'll, never forget this all standard from a house like shooting basketball, danny and he was like you know, just so bad ass right. You know he's like I've seen that show netflix the efforts for families, the blonde neighbour guy right right criteria, but he pulls up. one day in the blast in this primal sound, and I was like what is that he just looked at me and I'll. Never forget it crushed me. He goes Is it worth fuck you bank, in a cave of garden, roses man my mom was thrown away three copies. Guess she kept finding at sea and the inner or right other stash it I've enemy. That guy robert Williams, the guy? Who did it because should get thrown away from where some money no monsieur I dont know, because I know I can t there was black about it and I think they
pulled. Something very way, must step and wolf. She heard the postman while she threw away the pushing through the fishermen, through actually threw it out the window, the car because I'm played the pusher came on and actually like now not my boy. You don't need to hear this fairly well, Where would where'd you grow up in kentucky, which part originally from a little tune and southeast kentucky comrade jackson near which is the appalachian coal mining area for real, yes mam, unlike the first male amongst our family? wasn't a common, really yeah. I saw an beside us. I, why are you it's like? I do I hear about this stuff. I think you might be the first person. I've talked to that. You know you. It's about life in that part of the country that you hear about, but ye you I would never eviction
instead and I always thought it would be a hard life and be insane. So I, if I sound, surprised and shocked at the phone, it is only because I'm like well that sounds fucking brutal oh well, yeah I mean my I wouldn't yeah. I mean I saw my my great grandfather when he was alive. He he definitely worked in deep minds, his whole life, and so he saw like the toll that took on his bio, my my grandfather, mom's dad and her brother. They worked on stripping and blue purple is actually the foreman sir. Not in the hall, the orange down in the holders blown shit up ran on the weekends. He had this big giant, ford, bronco yeah. That was a work truck through the coal company. Then he'd take us up me and my younger cousin up there on the strip moral weakens in this big monster truck yeah. It was to me you know as a kid it's beautiful, because you could see everything, but now the devastation that that industry sort of left on the area.
Yeah and everything that came along with that. It is not the same place that that I a really tangible like yeah. Well, you know once the once the the a lot of the environmental issues, obviously that needed to be addressed, put some pressure on the industry. It's kind of it's it's pulled back a lot and so that the the big coal left, walmart and oxy cotton came in and that pretty much dead just destroyed everything. That's where yeah, that used to be a really jackson was a really great. It still is a really great small town, but the community in the sense that I remember, being a child there. You know main street and all the mom and pop businesses and everybody knew each other just doesn't feel so much the same anymore. It's like a shell. You hate to say that, but I mean it's happening in a lot of places is not just to snatch as jackson, then we moved to
but to call incorrectly pronounced mercedes yeah if you're a guy in a delay pronounce it like that they should do all right. They have committed to that which commit no verse. I never saw it as inadequate. Values, monopoly. so we moved up there like towards grass in grade school, my dad got transferred and what was he doing? He was a state trooper, oh really, yeah, who do he grew up with that with a cop in the house, how many siblings you got none? Just you just in the cop and the mom throws waste evermore record. While it has been hard to were bell, I found a way but I mean was there when you were a young kid I mean there must be some excitement about riding in the car and oh yeah, a weird shelter obama babysitters were state troopers and oh really here he had a really interesting career, actually countering the game. It. I think, he's the only state trooper in history kentucky that winning
are trolling and retired as commissioner, oh really, he went all the way up. The chain worked homicide. While I worked narcotics for awhile, his bodyguard from two or three kentucky governor's. Oh really, So he is like sort of a lifer, but he had a you know. He had a a goal in mind: huh yeah, yeah, he's very good at his job. He's he's still around yeah yeah and he's my biggest supporter man. Is he yeah totally he he could never hardly turn on the radio. So the fact that you know when I was a kid and showed interest in music His father was a big bluegrass guy at player or a fan both oh yeah. What he play mandolin, that's bluegrass, mandolins the best. It's it's it's one of the things that every time you hear it when it's done well, you like how's. He doing that, like I'm, not full on you know, country. I may I grew up with a little bit bananas yeah, but
but you are now you kind of have to be one of you will I'm not so sure, but not in a bad way like. Let me let me let me try to qualify. That is that, like I think that the three records you've done in this new record is is definitely different. We can call a country record. I would a new record definitely yeah good, but like the first you what sort of like this deadline? I'm not even a country music person in terms of whatever country music means now but, like my sources for country, if your waylon and willie and george Moreau and- and you know some somebody even your buck, owens, where I mean I grew up with these guys in my head, so just the production and the sound and end. The cleaning of the whole thing in the presentation was really what country music was built on. An end should be you isn't a country now which I don't, but I can't tell what it is so I think you're doing some of the most authentic country around Thanks man and I thought this new the thing that was amazing about is right from the beginning and like we got strings,
orchestration. We got liking. This is like this, like a big country presentation in never once crossed my mind at this with any other form of music. It was almost like those Elvis. Records in a that's colonel worm ahead was a really yeah cause well, not in terms of sonic right right cause. You know he was like he's. A huge hero means like in the ghetto to the right role that especially the stack stuff right when James Burton and those cars were plenty of horns. But it was like a harbor reaches the hillbilly singing blues and rock and roll right country, gospel yeah. You know it's thrown at all the other- and I really I mean I am a country singer I'll- never deny that. As soon as I open my mouth, it's what's going to come out, but musically mean I've. Just my whole life. I've been in love with so many different types of music that I finally wanted to. Honor honour it right in and get it out riding home. Why thought that the art the element of it, you were throughout. The record was really was with perfectly done yoke is. There is
yeah. There is sort of a groove to it. That is definitely rmb right of fold. Rmb won't be welcome in Marvin gaye's, probably my favorite musician of all time. Oh yeah I'll, probably listen to more marvin Gaye than anybody. So but you know I'm not gonna meals like nobody can sing like Maureen, You mean like this, like some of it is reminiscent of old marvin Gaye, the whole Marvin Gaye, especially the seventies like the darker period, but he just did terms of his fearlessness as an artist and, and it was so cathartic coming from such a unfiltered place and just kind of like yeah. They might not buy this, but this is this is where my head, my heart, is so that they're finally guys like bowie gala, more inspiration from guys like that Ever did a lot of the country songwriters that I love sure, because these guys, I guess I'm like Marvin gaye- was a maid guy. I've made are based, are and then he's like like I go deeper and I do what's gonna on or useless for something bigger than myself yeah, yeah yeah, and if you are aware of that
so is it more of a songwriter or cause like? I would think that when you're a guitar player that you know what it to a disorder. Pushy guitar wise was pretty specific, but I I think, when you're talking about vulnerability and in showing your feelings and stuff, it's a different thing. It is a different thing: women, so I'm you say that, but, like you know, rwby canon gecko telecaster can see a lot more than a lot of singers. Could ever I can barely listen to him. It's it's! You can feel it's heartbreaking. You feel the torture that that guy was a minute. I was kind of bored with guitar for a few years yeah, and then I discovered yeah, isn't it yeah? I totally fell in love with all oregon, even as cover hey Joe ikea, there's a stiffness to what he did but like that. Because of that, the way he fuckin push the envelope you're like oh, my guys can lose it he's going to lose it. You always felt Jimi hendrix who just fly into any territory mentally or emotionally? That was out there, but Roy look I used to like wrestle.
Would that mean I. I love jimi hendrix, of course, but I gotta say I think, and I'll probably catch heat on this, but Roy played that song in a way that captured now that song was really about the meanness in the year. This underlying tension. Here, You know you feel it. You feel the menace. I guess in his shirt and shirt, were you gone Joe? It's not good. I go oh shit with rethink your submitted yeah. Well, those kind of themes like I I'm not usually a word guy. You know- and I have listened to the first couple of your first couple- records, not his intent. Please! Maybe I should have word wise because I'm sorry, but I think you understand what I'm saying that what country affords you that here you know, get that more from a like
if you're in van morrison always guys a lot of my favorite singers in the air or Kurt Cobain, I was user von, a fan but like he can't understand anything, they're saying, I get started wondering what is it about expression? mood, or should I just be going for perfect denunciation and sacrificing energy and soul for the sake of somebody in the audience feeling like yeah, that guy's, actually speaking english right and I and a lot of people can't understand what I'm saying. Really. It's a seeing me now, but I think, you're, I think you you can hear you I like. I have to pay attention. Words cause I'm a mood guy right again, you like to feel the pain yeah. Sure I like I feel, like you even like I like to be moved by the the music. You know, if there's a word or two in there, that I can latch onto and a chorus of I'm good. You know what I mean. The music, I think, should should enhance and accentuate and prop up. What's there lyrically right, I think that's the job. So that's what this is something you've done.
Two yeah I've come to this right right like it's like I'm, a song writer. Maybe they found one writer, but I don't dunno more than that. I think I just want to make records so like a group of songs that serve a greater sum and then musically for lack of a better term. The sonics have to sort of and there's no way around it. But it's! It's manipulation, you're right, you're lifting what? U turn assyrian motorway nea and your eye in your completely aware that will yeah yeah, that's good because, like you know to be like I don't know what the relationship between an artist in a producer is all the time, but it seems to me at times that you, if the artist is not irresponsible, but either completely trusting or or or not as in tuned, that a producer can have a great we'll have input on a on a record. They can yeah. They certainly can't because they're going to have ideas and anybody that's worth their salt, as producer of shirt certainly should have.
Are you wouldn't want to be in the room with right, but you can go because you are aware of this, this relationship, you can be like how do we get it to do that? well yeah of the first two records I worked with. Would they come in? I learn more from him, then I could probably do not. Then I'm even aware of at this point I think, but in terms of he does a great job of not imposing who has. I d is in an eighty percent of the time, they're they're they're right. If you start your blog, will that's good. yeah, but what have you did this and your any artist gets tied to something you're going to find initially be like ours like it all? Actually that sounds pretty right. You know and. And then, but I think more than Dave knows how to stay other way. But, looking back on, I realized he. The first record we did was us kind of getting to know each other right and I can be pretty volatile studio thumped set on something or rarely you know to navigate that and then a real as some days. He was actually manipulating me to get me angry to get a certain emotion.
Energy out of a real, getting ready, modern, pc, barnum men. Where do you come from now, because the one that I know but there's first first you records and in just putting on the first record. Right away you have this guy. You no one knows exactly where country music comes from especially you that europe in the sixtys and seventys where They had a little more control over the production. There is a balance between the steel and the drama. Everything sounded like you know, not not nostalgic, but well referenced. You dig, or everything has its place right it knows what the place is. He doesn't know me and honestly we listen to the same records as kids. It's weird how much musically we have in common but like zeppelin and stuff all that yeah Zeppelin, the meters. Why think-
if you guys were gifted the same way in the region, you are in but music for me, country, music, I've always mom's dead. My grandfather was big marty, robbins merle haggard, like I didn't know anybody else even made records until I was about seven years old. That's all he listened to, and this is early eighties. So the country was kind of having a heyday back keyhole and I mean merle was playing stadiums yeah, so it was. It was everywhere we go to gatlinburg and stuff, and so those images, those impressions were kind of burned in isabel, that's the benefit of grown up where you grew up, like you know, that's where country music lives and like, alongside of just the regular rock that we all got I mean country was Two into the fabric of of life I didn't really have that. I mean I was around. It was new mexico, but it was in texas and it certainly wasn't kentucky. So I imagine there was two three generations of people listening to bluegrass in country records, and that was everywhere literally
a merle haggard did that record with george jones. That's good record those guys hello phone Oh man didn't they have. It's been. The most fortunate aspect of everything. That's happened for me is getting to meet the hero. The heroes among that are still around merle, merle and we've. You know we've played shows with Chris Christie. And willie nelson now, just my grandparents out long enough to see me play the opera in person. They did. You know like that stuff that I'll always cherish and like it for me, the trophies and in accolades and fame and money, like that's all fine and dandy, and it's it's but to know that I finally got to let them see me. do something that wasn't a disappoint us. You know they understood the end, the overly goma garlic, the group and culture of these really talk. You listen to it on radio or even so, it was its heavier than in others, grateful at all, and they came down this
If you play my mom brought them down to nashville both of those both of them there in the mid eighties, the guy you know from my grief, well. That was it no matter what happens or what you think you're chasing like you, you've done it right, you're at the opera you're at the opry yeah. What did they? What did he say after not much yeah yeah, it's been really cool cause. He was a big marvel fan so. That's it that's a beautiful moment they eat out. Where were you love
interval movements vf in the last couple of years? I bet that you're getting the respect from that from the old timers at that you respect the ones that matter yeah and like kris, kristofferson he's heavy dude. We played willys picnic last july in texas and I'll. Never ever forget this. As long as I live in the middle of her set a look over on the side of the stage behind one of the side mars, there's kris kristofferson back there, literally with his hands in the air like
just food sharing just booting down. I was like what is happening and we come off the stage and we're in the dress room, and he walks in and literally like was like I'm gonna. Look like he had. I mean I'm not shitting. You mean the guy had a tear in his eye, just like. If I feel like I'm, you know you made me really happy gardening like that dude to stay in there say I'm just a it was all I could do not to choke up like a little bitch, yet right there in front of the coolest guy in history right now or yeah, and just things like that. I'm glad that all this is happening at thirty six, thirty, seven thirty, eight years old, as opposed to twenty five yeah, we're not
would have been lost in the haze of it not appreciated all of it. You well, let's go back. I mean what the journey was. What did you grow up at with your mom? Was it like a heavy christian thing with nah? No, no, it was just a protective thing thrown out of date. My parents married real young. Had me real young: did they grow up in coal camps? Yeah the devils from eastern kentucky further down the road moms from eastern kentucky they're not in coal camps, know that your target's another nation back, that's u grandparent, grandparents by letting call communities absolutely ah so that was just away life when that eventual You have be a call minor and was a legacy thing or or estate cup right whatever. But the fact is that, like and when you start the finding a guitar,
grandfather had an old gibson that sat on a stand that was off limits for a long time, acoustic, acoustic and while old nose like a seventy one. Seventy two j, fifty five, my grandmother baja, but by the time I was around his old enough. He played it. He had a really pretty boy. He has has a essays like he's gone he's still here, I'm still here, yeah in his eighties eighties. That's great! I called in get him know he had a really beautiful singing voice. I would play instrumental you know just like magic. Now I haven't seen my son react in the same way and he's obsessed with drums but the different story. So then he hall we'd watch he hall every weekend and pep all would tell me you know which guys were actually play and which ones were just hey at like a prop and Roy could play Roy could play roy clark was a huge inspirations. He was a kid
well my uncle yeah. He always played it. He was played oregon and harmonica. Most of he had a bunch of friends when I was a kid that they'd all go yeah. These two friends are twin brothers and neither one of them never married and they lived together. So they turned the living room in their house into a stage they had a PA set up and, like a light show on the weekends they live down. The river in jackson, the whole friend posse would come over and these guys will just play every night. Mongol would take me there once I started showing little prefers. It's your guitar and before I really learned how to play guitar or music? I think, as a result of that, I learned how to play in a band write and listen haha cause. I was so afraid I might fuck up that. I was just trying to stay out of the way yeah and listen to all these older guys, doing it was really influential you ganz stage when you're like why? How would we talk and eleven or twelve eight They very up on this stage need play. Your first gig was a family union actually mean my cousin was they're saying with any wasn't taken a serious error rate, so pissed off it was like.
If you're, are going to do it all. How old are you guy? We were young at that point. We just fucked but you do do earlier in my ears like this, what are you ever the zone swinging by Jan andersson, oh yeah yeah in your ear, already sort of like come on man. Do you not appreciating the sonnets eggs verdict? Words, don't ruin this is mike Dewey Cox, moment fuck off me, so Well, that's real young when you're, starting to at least get the sense of what it's like to play with people you and your dad that I think it's it seems kind of sweet. Gimme that he was so kind of arms. Lord event in awe of yours. You know your your focus on that on music. Well that,
No, I wasn't always focused on robert, was he where he, where he was always sorted into it or now yeah? He when I showed interest he went, he had a he got me. My first guitar was a little electric silver tone and silverton where and that used he was actually his when he was a kid okay. I think he got her a series with the built in app with the amp. In that case, a little red sparkle deal two years still got it in my in my mom's house and storage, so that was the first one and then managed the rabbit hole after I, I got real heavy into zeppelin on the silver, on certain ice cream and steer ray vaughan, create that little lamp in that case weigh up. Why should the case was law gone, bleeds Vittoria target right, yeah ended the cave, he never used. Then every I ain't, gonna k I ever saw the case. There was
this one's it came with the epp indicate Yonah red sparkle. We area ugly, ass white pick go right right home, so you put it you got an empty, then yeah will create practices for real near by high school, saves money, and I had a fingering of absorbing telecast hers and string has straightforward, as my first to tell cast her phone. Never could have were left for us to young, but I got really heavy into that. Clapton be no record than he did john meal blues breakers. Oh yeah, just obsessed, melick fifteen. Sixteen years old, I went way down his deep, dark blue hole for three years? Did you ever do the peter, green and blue owed to last june? Do that I talk about your green constantly being baby king cry with his guitar play in that, like that says a lot to me, but I think the pressure just got him in. The drugs. I think he might have been a little bipolar to begin with, and I think it just sent him over the edge and he just never. I think he it was a confidence problem too. It's a pretty common theme. You know no, no doubt that this is the true like Marvin same thing: oh yeah, I was scared to death to war
at one stage he greatest singer ever and he was afraid to perform front for people and it's it's horrible that possibility for her. action that you've already created in your mind by gathers they're going to hate me is not gonna. Do you have that? Oh yeah? Really, oh man, that's why people think I'm like pissed off all the time on stage is not I'm just scared, shitless trying to fight through it and pretend like he got it together. The entertaining aspect is something I really personally kind of had to come to grips with, because you know back then like Marvin could put out, let's get it on and see five million copies and he didn't tour because he didn't have the tour right. He sold records. But now you have to to one way I'm going to support my family's detour. The touring is the I love we in the totally wrong- I mean that that ninety minutes for two hours every night, that's free, we get paid travel right. Every night. I have to sort of get lost, flocked in and go out. There lay okay, you others!
thousands of people that really don't want to be disappointed because they have a lot of expectation, no crying muggy in his, but what it was. Going through your mind in that like what? What is the exact fear is it is it that they're not gonna respond or that you're going to fuck up or all of it? Oh really you're just going to get out there and freeze and not know how to play get tangled up, I dunno man, I dunno. If I knew it probably wouldn't be an issue, you know, must figure it out. It's gotta be something tangy, it's like a ladies and gentlemen coming stayed right now, what's going to your mind you waiting to see him is here like I'll fuck, I'm gonna to once. It's just so surreal, yes, even Right rashly lino- and you can see you
I saw put a record out handful that you know he really believes in character. They have these ideas or or preconceived notions and expecting who you are, and you have to live up to that Are you what? But they just knew that I was just like the dork yeah. You know, I'm like a well read kenny powers end of the day: it's not even further they're I'd like you to be found out, wellman and not necessarily found out, but just oh yeah, right he's not country is not hard. The fuck is he thought right. There is something that you you do it. You think that songs are written, specifically about the songwriters wife? You know I'd you're, living that likely niccolo set Right, where you're sitting and played the beast in me yet which he roper johnny cash but it always assume like next been through it he's like no did its song in a week or so you write you characters you right through. You know, different voices you eat, no aids
my life necessary some of your life. Of course you know it's also. A lot of it is other people that you ve newer encountered whose lives were maybe more. Interesting than yours and nature incorporate right observation. I guess rightly. Israel's like that too, when Cambodia, here, guys get me started. Oh yeah yeah. I guess he's a hero for me Oh yeah he's probably. In a lot of ways, is just a good human being.
was this? We got. He doesn't believe me, oh actually, I dunno. If he does or not he never said, but I could tell he was skeptical, but I've never actually heard southeastern in its entirety, and I haven't heard the new one at all remember one day when I'd finished high top and he and jason who made the record and develop menu in here, smells like absolutely because the truckers fan think we got about four songs in yes, like man, you gotta turn it off. I can't listen to this too. Heavy is too good to get it's too stylistically realised yeah no of ambling. If I get into something like this now, The point in my life, everything I write for six months is going to sound like that. So that's better than saying, like I'm fucking quinton, but I know what you mean. I I have that same answer at some point. I think you have to if you want to make your statement, you kind of have to shut off everything yeah and he got stopped trying to stop comparing yourself to other people or letting other people.
for you right, why mean cause like when, even when I asked, if you'd listened to that, when was the last time, it was that george jones record that that one from my guess it was the late seventies. I I had to start stop about around the time our first country record came out. I I pretty much had stopped listening to country old old country countries, I feel like it absorbs right and traditional bluegrass like world war, two I'll live till the mid seventies, like I had a big year, long, o cd obsession with all the all before high top mountain for the high top in the country. I just you know, I'm like twenty seven up until thirty two that was all listened to because you're enjoying it like steady, studying it without realizing. It's always for me. It's always been more about I'll, just obsess about things and and draw everything I can from it and then at a certain point. I just get bored me up and put it down and find some
it also says well, and he got a little flak right for for the sound of their like it were. Like I don't know, maybe I make an adapted did that people thought you were too reminiscent away when maybe or too reminiscent of man. You, whale and of talked about this. So far can markets not to talk about it, I mean- and I actually I didn't even hear it are. You, like, I, was into it and like it all, sounds good to me ass. The thing I could have fuck is driving like what like yours, what I'll get you make this amazing country record that the sound of which has not been heard in decades, kind of nerdy. Mother fucker is gonna, be like now knows a little too much like way when I, like you, one guy who's, not even a country. Guy is not really want to know what everybody's her royal engineers you know, and but and I'm one hundred percent on abortion he's probably the guy that I listen to the
Houston. I covered the latest, but you know what man as a country singer. There are much fucking, worse things to be told and you sound kind of like waylon Jennings sure it's always a compliment bright, but yeah as an artist, especially one The first record in a lot of that, I think, was Dave really wanted to make a waylon jennings record. Oh, he did and because I kind of reminded him away learns garages gets his excitable guy and how old's day he's a couple of years older than me so he's young guy he's like an easy, easy fan likely that you just turn. Forty. Ok, and in the end the shooter were great bodies, and it worked together in here.
Because the shooters, in the reason that first record got me he is one that told dave about me. We were all down at third and lindsley one night, my manager and garner Billy, Joe shaver concert and shooter and dave and Jimmy Johnson. Were there sitting upstairs at a table and mark my manager used to manage mass shooters. We have to say hi. Also shy. You know there's like in Jamie's a hero in it. He said I just got really nervous, but I have a resting bitch face most of the time, yeah cause, I'm usually internalized and thinking heavy about something and get all hangdog. people just think I'm an asshole and they didn't feel like. I was scared to death. You mean you're, a fucking asshole, but shooter we ended up leaving in shooter. I think so. He says told Dave that guy's the best country singer in nashville and Dave apparently looked up some videos that lie on that night online and emailed my manager. He asked the next morning
it had launched and made a record and we made another record. What were the videos online? What was existing before the first on what he saw that made him want to work? Will you do you? Do. I kind of a bad as sometimes like, wait like is any make associations dude like it on the second album on the meadow muttered founding country music, the fuckin picture on the cover you like it so, a war veterans. Let me have them Maybe this war is ok sets out of a job You look like general custer, for Christ's sake, jason silver, it's actually a painting, wow photograph, amazing artist, wow. I wanted to do something just make the tacky este album cover of all time really and kind of juxtapose it with like. Oh, there was a very hip troon with like the tin type photo. gunnar rang. That's what I wanted to do. Something like this have a wharf. Oh yeah, lay at, but even more ancient version of something that there already trying to capture cells with. I have a painting of black and white photo on us. Space, so that was a joke to you here am, I also really was the titles metal modern sounded country music, but I thought that was
like yeah. I mean I get it's a joke, but I'm paying homage to ray, but it was also like. Maybe we should I needed to take myself a little less seriously at the time I think more than anything after high top after high top, because it was such a heavy record. Earnest ernest here so wise and then I wasn't said before well. I didn't want to write and wants the draken songs me that shit's, like less than half men, do that god, let's hope so he did you like. I reckon I'd I'd, introduce bans dave. I like this kind of has to happen, but I told him he was like. If you're going to do this, you can't turn post cake halfway through me. You can't tiptoe up there. It's gotta be fuckin kaufman or I don't ever see you again rail there. He wouldn't human day went used Chris patten, we roy free legal base
Smile at great, penetrated, whither walker charter is like yours. On border country. Chart is certainly in the learning brilliant loved. His argument, it's like whose whose can tell me I'm not real country. Well, he it needs them, be my phone right in Munich. It is in the mainstream, all of it I mean it all needs to be made fun of people get so hung up on this ain't, real country- or this is real contrariness and it's like fuck cares man yeah if it's making you happier if it's making some part of you thinks addiction. happy at the end of the day, it's putting a lot of food on a lot of tables. It's making a lot of jobs, yet in one and nobody's forcing people to go by. This obviously has huge demographic that have that really love all the stuff that people make fun of, but it doesn't. I don't think a lot of journalists last year wanted me to like get sucked into that car stations. Just talk, shit and bash. It all day, long about a mainstream country, mainstream country in it, and I don't have anything offer there cause I just don't. I don't even think bout. It neon Amelia, don't well! There was a time
we're guys like there was a fight to be had. I guess so I don't know who started but you're back when all country Steve Earl, maybe lucinda little bed, they weren't fighting, but bore drawing lines ya like when Tar, town and stuff came out that there were this movement of younger. country artists like wilco, and uncle tupelo the ever growing one billion euro, tupelo I mean you know it was some sort of standard was set by a by the flying, burrito, brothers and and Emmylou and in in those people, riders of the purple sea right right, well, yeah, but that country rock. When I was a kid I mean she had eyes, and riders that new riders of the purple sage don't even know why I saw him, but I remember they had a giant stagecoach up on it behind them when they were playing at the end of the day, it all led to the eagles yeah? What you think of that? I think that it's inevitable
It happens. I you know it's like you want to hate him, but Jesus Christ. I know all those fuckin songs rulers, reason the good songs goes home. You dig it out of here, Take it to the limit your worms, the entire beautiful, but, like I still can't it's late I could be the value of the beatles, but I do not am I gonna throw on lady Madonna again anytime soon. I don't think so. When I hear it, I I'm like okay, now I'll give a two year old soon, so I've gotten back into the beatles god who guided you got programme he's all about man is crazy. That's why the strings made the record honestly because of the whole
it was based on revolver. No well, wouldn't, let me say: yeah I will the first year and a half of his life. I was on the road pretty much the entirety because the record came out a month before he was born and which one meta modern, so that my career sort of took off around the same time that my family formed. But my wife, you know she's very supportive and understands you know she's, like you, we spent five years to get right here. And you have to do this now, because if, if you gonna do this, it is isn't it this. Is it here's your window case or rules by adding to get through this, and I was on road a lot, but we slept on my bed, maybe fifty times in that year and a half and so is watching open pictures really knows what I was home with him. It was
every moment seemed hyper aware. Yeah like I just wanted to be so they're ram, and a lot of that was me observing his reactions to allow the music that I listen to was kind of influence through mental way and I'd come over from home with the roofs and the masters. This album this, how I produced this one because it was so personal. Yet
I just wanted to be more than anything. I think the idea of it came from the fact that, or I will after mirror modern, there's all these unnecessary and unfounded expectations and the parolees titles and things on you, and I knew it was never going to pan out like I as an outsider and self release, I knew there was no hope of me changing anything and what changed in what in terms of what all people were fed up and frustrated, they wanted to see recognition from the mainstream for for what they call authentic music bright. It's that that worlders they're not going to let a self release independent record are on stage at award shows, and I mean it wasn't. Even in the country category, the grammys for which one meta modern sounds right. You self really set yourself
I used to that's who I am and that's insane, because that's politics well yeah, but it's all necessary. I mean oh and so yeah when, when Metamora came out, there's all the press and people just always got the savior country music title which to me was always like a curse, because they're gonna be let down right. There's no way to live out is no way to live up to that. There's water boarding themselves with coolly right thinking that than that the industry propagates things that it stands to profit a profit and benefit. From, and I knew the change always had to come from the inside. Like a guy like me or a garlic jason, we can kick down doors all day long, but you know we're not going to walk through ray. I'm not I mean his he's too. Nice forgot to say this was a form he had in the wrong country record last year and I and a newly submitted for recognition, the lacy ones and got rejected and Dave wrote him a letter. So it meant to me yum yum little skeptical still that fucking homeless things have really
move forward, but both by the waiting is like is, if it's what we talked about earlier, this we're paradigm is at what are they protecting their protecting? Like you know these known quantities, you make them millions of dollars and they're, not welcoming in you know, creative new artists. Oh they are no. No! No. I mean god Chris tables for him or like as a phenomenal young, again phenomenal talent. So why the ice jason, I dunno honestly, I'm a christ written songs for our people in the world, but I don't the deuce such an incredible artists. Nea because he's on the inside, I think he's in a better position to really orchestrate change more so than than any body like jason or myself or laura others could, and I think that's a great thing, because it has to move forward
I don't know if I met a modern had anything to do with a man who criticized he heard the record. One torpid dave write to me the two biggest kaufman. Anybody could pay me now. If I anyway, influence that guy to go against the grain and make a record that he wanted to make in the world and must make itself was look at the result of an asshole And I think also as a result of that, both fortunately and maybe unfortunately, for the next two or three years, you can see music row pumping out want versions won through thirty seven of their authentic countries singers right, because they know right now they kind of look assholes right. You know rome we're going to go back to browsing, I'm an asshole for so for me to say somebody looks like an asshole is like right, so now, they're just going to reach reconfigure, the face of country music, a little bit nato, it's all sickle every twenty five thirty years at rolls over and in time.
Let's get back to you know you having this. Yet these this profound time with your son in and moving into this new record. What was your did you come up with her worked for you as a songwriter, that you know you kind of move through this metaphor for a good chunk of the record. You know the ocean sailor, business that has two or three songs, at least on their lowered. The concept confirmed like you, you said you had this experience, what your kid yeah you've been away from him, and even though I have the greatest job on the planet, yeah there's no question about it, even though it brings me a lot of emotional turmoil and if and insecurities after fight, go out and do it, it's still the greatest job plane. right so it's like my whole life, whether a new or not. Even when I wasn't ambitiously moving towards it. It was all I ever cared about music, music and and and and people might think, I'm pretentious or whatever, but I take it very seriously. You know if I could clearly it's something. It's the only thing I've ever taken seriously so and I feel, like you, have his responsibility. These records are going to be around forever
so anything I leave behind has to be silent, saw here, but I wanted also realizing sort of my place in all in in the road I would have ahead of me. I came to peace with her in in and realized that no matter what happens going forward again, it's a very fickle business and it could all be over tomorrow for me, so I wanted to do something as a thank you to my wife and myself a family just as like this. Their support, and believing in me got me to write here so be very self absorbed and selfish for a moment and produces bombastic orchestrate all journey from my kid that some day, if I grew up and I'm dead and gone, he can listen back. No exactly was dead, was and have all those things that, like that meant so much to me in the sonnet cap
so so the differences like in the first record, you were saying I'm going to write an earnest country record here. In the second record, you are going to turn country in on itself a little, it was April elements of psychedelia and rock and roll riders listen to and then really make a social consciousness album about the human experience and like coming to terms with the little dark corners. We all don't want to go around in our heads. You know It is not common for country really not any more. It used to be what it was all about. It used to be about the celebration of the struggle of life like the blues and lose may now it's like what is wanted is let's dance of people like it. So what What can you say who you can remain April? One happy needs. You wanna be happy there. There were some like even like you, we I mean if you look it even Hank Williams and he and his progeny like that that the legacy of of being as
dark and out there is he was in writing, though songs I get. It all feeds all that seven. When, even when you hear the personal mythology of of george Jones, you I wholly sheer genius but so so. That was the exploration record, but this record, but they were taken heavy overwhelmingly depressing said things and putting them to uplifting sonic background those. Thus that's that's that. That's what makes it go. You know you can't be musical expression. Is these thoughtful mode of ideal it was an hour. Any kind of modern milk seems to be rapid and overtopped these bombastic like a cheesy version of eighties hero. yeah in really shallow empty lyrical content. There is a really interesting piece in the washington post last week about how a lot of modern country singers are coming out and expressing or may not all these, but just like here. We know there's not much in what we're doing and to me that tells me that somewhere right now
around eight thousand dollar oak tables meetings are taking place in their saying. We look like assholes right and we need to come up with a better alternative, because people are fed up with the money kill it. The artists are fed up, is what your artist, or also right, a lot of people from that world reached out to me, man, Keith urban, wrote me one of the nicest notes. personally I'll, probably ever get my entire life zac brown extended, put us, took us out and put us in front of bigger audiences than we ever would have thought to play for last year, so I mean yeah. The artists are fed up and end the the people that work in the industry are fed up at the beautiful, because It's those stories where you know it's like one of those sworder almost stars, born where you know you get these dude that have made fortunes and end of really figured out how to fortunes doing what they do by making certain compromises to maybe what they originally set out to do, and then a guy comes along that just rings true and end. Gracious enough that that's gotta be worth everything.
like in again returning back to this time, capsule for your kid. So to me it sounds like this was a grown up record where, where Like you know you you ain't the boy prince yeah right. Because, like you know, in meta modern, you know you had an agenda to to explore certain things that you grew up with and psychedelic things in the first record you wanted to to sort of, like you know, yo, have your ground like you did, he had to be reckoned with or finding it may right, and in this regard, seems like longing to draw from what I love and use like there's something that you just said about the sonic landscape, you having the power to elevate pain enough to wear that pain is, is additional within the person listen dear say I love you know that I have never really heard to put that way and I think that's right on because a lot of ties with the blues, you know that's pretty standard shit Yet in terms as one four five and you know, and then the course is usually given in somebody, you know there's
you know, I'm fucked, but I'm ok grew bright light to do some, my golden ring, which is a cyclical sort of heartbreaking story, and to have it be like something: can listen to over and over again just means that pain you experiencing. What that sad story? It's it's manageable! little here? Everybody can really do we all the same basic emotions, and so Is that what you found yourself entering this record? You know what was the thing you said. Well, I don't give a fuck em, you know, I'm not gonna. honor, which voice do you know what I'm saying like we're all them ok what really easily ok wool. I am on a major label now. This is my first album. I I've got this. This metaphor, like use, uses a toolbox, yet you know you have all these, ah
means available. Now that I didn't have met a modern, we made that literally me and three other guys, my road band, that I'd spent a year on the road, a lot of the songs were tested, arranged carved out of wood yet, and we came and hit record with four microphones and we didn't touch anything after day. One and- and it was very short conversation dave- knew exactly what I wanted and he went very fast and very I didn't think I was ready to make a record whereas pose with this album all of those learning, exp It's a stack up into more confidence where I, in terms of what you in, if you going to a year or a year and a half on the road, inevitably you become a better musician and over you hear things you didn't hear a year and half ago, and after some reflection and I and I I knew that learned a lot about the process yeah, and so I guess I had some confidence, so I told Dave I'm going to do this one by myself just cause it's so personal. When you say
he understood yeah, I mean and then the the label and they were currently okay. Oh, so I just told her I'm going to go, make some demos and see where my head's at, but I knew I had the record. We are about four or five days later and everybody's concerns were alleviated. Hopefully, but It was a lot of fun with a lot of his again. It was a learning experience because I already heard it my head and all the guys in the room had to deal with that right. That fact that you had it fully realized of patients was a something that I came to understand is very important in the process. Where you know all? Well, let's try that, but we can't try it right now, because the setup certain equipment, especially the in law world it takes time and then you've got to place the mics right and the the engineer, David Ferguson, the genius or cowboy jack and rick Rubin and did all johnny cash records, were he. I learn probably even more from him in that week it it's, it's really inch. I dunno the records, for me is, is
The roar, that's where I love worried anything. While it was conical that one of the more countries ish soundings is the nirvana cover right. Like you, no like you had to. You know why I understand doing a cover and I understand your loving nirvana. But what was it about? What we want in bloom is everyone. What was it? about that song that you were like well this this I can. You know we can make this sing in a different way or, if you're going to cover anything, should probably try to make it. now, of course, but I mean like you know, I can't take credit for my wife idea yeah. I did this other eighties. New wave song last forget those her idea, cushy anyway, so the record conceptually as a letter to your son rag or as a apparent to their child whatever from far away. I wanted
I had this whole narrative. The record was sort of arrangement before a lot of the songs were finished, even been written because I knew it had to form a bright. A narrative, as I came to that point, was like okay. Well he's going to hit this stage in his life, where he's like this post, pubescent, adolescent angst, awkward little kid that we all go through and I'm not in that headspace anymore. So I didn't know how to To be honest, a lot of my life during that time I just kind of blocked out and went and just learned to play, guitar or smoke pot and try to be known through it all. well. My wife's a well, we know what were you listening to at that point in your life, like nirvana shit, hit like eighth grade seventh or eighth grade, and my parents had divorced. So I was like the latchkey kid from abroad.
Have you known that record just sort of exploded? How old were you when they divorce? Ah thirteen ha that rough or you just too out of it. At that point, everything that led up to it. I think I was already just kind of out of it with a frighteningly years, look very tumultuous, but they loved each other, mainly through young trying to do the best they could but yeah that that broken- and I was just sort of- wayward wild yeah. As for the lack of, but did like you know, speaking about the life and about these drifting years or beyond, before you sort of like kind of landed, you know in whatever got you to the first record, I mean how fucked up did it get for you I mean, were you just a guitar player or just in just a weed smoker like what kind of jobs were you doing? What kind of trouble were you getting into high school with her Were you like? I got to change course over, sir in india. A few of those really worked for the railroad for awhile out west.
Why well, I moved to nourish for the first time in two thousand in two thousand for two dozen far out for a while. Try to be a singer. Songwriter Y know what I was trying to do. I just went down there very naive, linen form and thought warm, but everything is going on in that city. Now, air wasn't really happening yet right near there wasn t jack light was that, while each national wasn't these national, they re just a different. World, and I didn't know anyone or where to start an I've never been a very ambitious person, nato rather than war, guess I'll get on the open market them is it robust western and slog it out of the figure. Was probably at home and and drink and listen to bluegrass instead, so that did that for about nine months a year and then realize well, this isn't going anywhere. So I should probably get a job as a buddy of mine with some connections got me on a gig at the at a railroad, switching terminal out in salt lake city and wow yeah. That was so abstract
yeah, it happened. Yeah the solo guitar except for martin, is went out there and threw myself into the job for awhile, and then I took a management position at the railroad at the roro marked man. Now my wife moved out. She was with me there and then was a dark time now. It was a good job in earlier years, its lot hours, but what was the job, started out as a conductor, o switch and trains only your that would pull and we break em up. So you weren't on the train. Your lessons. Runway allude, we'd operating with engineer locomotives within that within the yard, robin driving and mount have long trains, yeah roof outdoor physical. Job old school, all schools as again, and it is why its appropriate data, the point where, unlike did you, plan that india, honest with you man if I hadn't, had taken that matters with job I'd, probably still be there
up and getting office and on the conference, calls screamed at out there on the order anymore, and I just got really depressed. We write music of that point. No once it got to that point, yet a guitar came out of the closet for the first when you are getting the elder by man. What am I do? I feel like those eyes and my wife has always been very encouraging about my music. She went and bought me a little twelve track recorder, so I could start putting ideas down at home and then I started writing more and then. Finally, she just kind of told me, no, you don't suck at this obviously what you enjoy rights, or maybe you ought to try to do that, for you, wake up you know with guys are bull ass forever yeah. So this will happen. We quit our jobs, we sold everything and drove back to nashville or bronco to nashville, and that was about six
years ago, and then you just sorta he figured out how to to to what. How did you begin to get recognized What you were doing. How did you make? How did you get to the first record from Saul lake city and quitting a railroad job and the first year addict off back and forth of a local band. I used to play in and realized that we we that was kind of over before I started again and- and I didn't have much musically or personally, to offer there anymore and I realized I was kind of using it as a hiding place in accra. What kind of music was it like punked out bluegrass and has a lot of fun until it wasn't right? I just wasn't gratifying, and so I made a break from those guys and then just decided, I'm going to write country songs because that's that's, ultimately, even in playing in that band. That's what
doing right was right in countries all right answered, yes, shooter hooked up with dave's. Like a year later, I have my manager was blind chance again knowing what I knew from living there. The first time was like well, obviously you need help, or at least somebody to point you in the right direction here. So I just I blind copied in about three hundred and seventy five email addresses and wrote. This very same short try to make it as humble as possible. Basically just say I need somebody to go sit down with have a cup coffee and just tell me like, whereas thought, aha and the guys my manager now he doesn't believe me, but he out of all of those he was the only person that wrote me back really and he he said he heard something will take them a voice and he was like there's something here so for the first two years more as a friend than a manager, he just kind of gave me advice on what not to do and would put up walls whenever things would present themselves that were some of those things
The token stories were guys like me, get chewed up and spit out my that town right you're running interference. If you don't want to do that, you think you want to do that right and you think that what they're telling you is great, but you know that's not worth what you're given away. So don't do that yet, and so is a lot of times, kinda scary and then he basically said like a help. You I'll get you in the right direction if it turns in And I want to give we shook hands on an eye out two years later turned into a gig and their you guys, my little sicilian, jewish people. You know it's a sicilian jew. And he's been there a long time he's been there a long time and he's worked in just about every facet of the industry over and and seen what it does sure. So he knows all the tricks, and he knows you know I don't think for lack of You know there might be bigger more connected gas, but there's nobody. That's got my best interests in mind in the town right like he'd. Let's get man it's good to have loyalty and a good relationship like that, and it's good that you're all else yeah and it's good that you didn't get off
locked up and then there's still time, but air traffic, No, I got all anonymous system good yeah when you were hidden. A bottle was bad. Well, no, no! I wouldn't like handshake, and it was just kind of like you're self medicating depression and not knowing anybody that was easier to find than all the other things that that bright, been. You know I bet your wife seems to have sort of been there. The whole time did she say like lesser me: what are you doing? It really man? All of this is happening because of her as the truth. I wouldn't have done any of this. What does she do she I used to work in marketing and how she's she's taken care of the kid. I finally got to the point where she can stay home, as was very important to me for her to be able to raise our child children, hopefully as well. She's vicious, very independent, very supportive calls me on all my bullshit
Or you know tells me we'll take it when I could try. I have to I gotta. Take it from somebody who knows is all literally, if not for her, I really don't think any of thing would be would be going down. So if the the actual arc of the record is welcome to earth his birth, birth, yeah breakers, roar is sort of a warning and just have more of a full disclosure. This is what you're in for it ain't all. hours right. Keeper between the lines is yeah, that was a collection of metaphorical sayings my green follies to say that even to this day, half of them still nuts, I know what they mean, but is more, like worldly advice that I tried to put in the song and also in the form the clause- I dare commercial, so that my kid does. It feel the need to go down on the roads ideas even though is, as I deal, romantically room boar s come out, have been in my like. There wasn't much learn from that arising had gotten,
I am having a weird and even then didn't have a good time. So you know what I mean so like yeah Erin Boden end. Well, no, and then see stories is ceased work it is more of a collection, both autobiographical and some fantasia will and made up like my life, from the navy in some of the characters and weirdos that I met an hour in the navy by three years. Was that act as before the train boy before yeah. Well, I I got in trouble selling drugs and in senior high school like three months in what reason just pot at a job at mcdonalds. When I turned sixteen, my mom got a job at mcdonalds, which was We like two miles from her house and she's like if you, where are you, save up the first six months, all her old match your vanikoro a car. So well, you know, you're back there for nuggets and people from school are coming in and just ridiculing the shit out of units absolutely humiliating fucking,
well shit we're in the house, cds and strings man yeah, so my buddy got a good friend of mine had an older sister dating this dude who had a had a line on the commercial. A great cruel munoz was like all the kids in school are getting the the dirty brown press yeah I can kill. This is like and there was nobody there. So maybe you shouldn't do that so that was that was a wake up call and then I realized more. Was you Your dad was out the house yeah. He was gone, you'd moved out at that point, but you did you talk to you're young women would stay with it. Wasn't like honestly, looking back, it wasn't rebellion. It was opportunism. When a business there was it was demand and nobody else had the supply submit, but that was it was really stupid. Force thing- and this was what three months in my senior year and just sort of had this epiphany like I'm going nowhere, My grades were again as your first epiphany, so war. If I know vagina
cereal a new, no matter what I'll get out of this town and nothing was scarier me than than two years later, still being in that town. So listed now thought the navy would take me further away than anything else even get busted up. And you get a guy that I was getting from. I don't remember He came home late. Is a lady called the craft zoning? if he freaked out in the middle of the night and me being the closest person to his house. He calls me this sixteen seventeen year old kid in the middle of night and and my mother had picked the phone up before I did so she heard this, Tar just like going on the whole game in the gate was up. It's about my man. God bless her. She did what it was when those causing due to capture coming in. I don't know how much you have brought you. I got here your area earlier area. Who is this problem
but she's scared her to death. She was the best mother. Anybody could hope for, and I put her through Hell. Always regret that, but she couldn't have done any better. So you know it's like merle said: yeah mama tried yet and the grateful at nearly the grateful dead air. So you go into the navy and you, you have a life for how long long enough to know it wasn't for me. Were you at sea, oh yeah, it was on a little little frigate. We would have stationed over in japan, yeah briggs pour that all over asia and we would like escort. The battle are. The main thing was patrolling international waters and checking like cargo freighter, ships and containers manifest. This will be assessed, teams that were, and we just fucking dick often it was peacetime, what anything on yeah so that the hardest
it was remembering you're in the navy, allow the timeframe really these ports and have buddies and with college in they talk about frat parties. Obviously you guys have no idea what navy parties are like is a lot of fun and some of the best friends I'll ever have in my life still have them still a few really tight guys they come to shows stay in touch one. One of them are close friends lives out on the west coast. He's got a kid about the same age as me. Will will probably talk to us for our lives there's the gas that you were good friends, you'll ever have in the world that you know there's one dude Joe was one of those like you know: bob Acosta the attorney from hundred times novel the idea that wasn't meant for mass production practices that guy right in two day. Nobody knows what happened to him, he could be, he could be dead, he could be imprisoned you gonna near you guys know. Mary was like you couldn't asked for more colorful human. We see the guide was
guy? No? No? No! No! He was. He was a sort of the the example. We add it would not. Let me now all out of our out here last night, you survive that and you didn't get too fucked up and you had a good time. I had a real good time and he came back with but after a gun out, I was out every washington real yell yellow station. Ever when I got out Cobain country, yeah. It was long after all, that service is like ninety nine yeah. So I was just kind of stuck out their working at this. I hope, ah away from our family and everything I ever knew and understood. I was living with this eighteen year, old, french girl in sieges. That's what you did when he got discharged. He just stayed. There stayed there and and got fucked up and play guitar and went to shows and an experienced this whole other side of america that I probably never would have seen before pretty up there. It's gorgeous. It's also immensely depressing yeah. You do have dark, but I, like
it's a cool town man I had too much fun got to a point where I realized I was having too much fun. Mr Mcgann missed my grandfather's funeral because of that, your father's father, my father's father, because I wasn't in a state to come home and see anybody doing just booze a lot of water, don't yeah! I read all the wrong books and I don't ever want to talk about that, because a lot of kids I hear shit like this and they get all. You know impressionable and stupid weight and lose your life and you didn't stay in it. You know just kind of this and that shirt had a good time until it didn't, and now I have to carry the shame of not being able to come home and see that mango
there was, he was dying. No, he he had alzheimer's and he fell down and broke his hip and there was against bacterial infections, I'm not sure exactly but other than that physically, he was fine. He probably still beer that had half and was at the sort of that that thing that shook you, those drake, those a wake up, call you and your dad probably was like what the fuck are. You doing, yeah yeah we and but I couldn't. I couldn't talk to him about it. You know tour, so it was we'd have to arrest you a distance there for awhile but yeah. I came home and got back in my element and around friends that I hadn't seen in awhile, and eventually I was okay, you know getting out of the military is always something that a lot of people don't talk about, because even peace or war time there's some pretty serious, behavioral modification right, and so I had to kind of come to grips with that on my own. I wasn't this
feedback here that that my friends all knew in highschool was just like wound, tighter than a banjo string and nothing was efficient enough anymore, MIA so had to throttle back. He had asked to and how to be in real life again right and were you a fighter? What do you mean? Did you kick any ass? Skin fights in the navy, yeah sure Yeah yeah over, but I'm not if I don't I've, seen some pretty authentic since severe violence. So it's something that I try to avoid at all pile on. Where do you see that just reno fights and things like out allentown but no I'm not a I'm, not a violent guy. If that's what you base your throw down, if you have to I'm mercurial I'll put it, though I'm trying I'm trying to lift up your country cred. That's all I understand
no app. No, I mean I, you know honestly fighting something that I've come to really hate as I've gotten older and I'm one of those guys, I'm not afraid to stop a show. If I see it happening just because one. It will the most annoying thing. Is it never happens. It's always just a couple of car kids like puffing up like roosters. What you know nothing ever happened. All they do is consume in redirect all of the energy in the room to them as bodies when the show my band's not in the show anymore, and that pisses me off too. In a way, I could never We particularly so that's one reason to is usually it's always people around the jack, as is the end of get hurt now, and I would rather stop than to see that happen at a show, the people that were responsible for people being there in the first place, even yet so, but you gotta be careful, because if I do that now, it's like it's on you too, in five minutes and then are tough guy
but I think it's interesting though, because, like you know, there's a year this talk about authenticity and about country and about you know what you're resigned in how you ve saved your life and what you ve done with your mind and end the things you ve accomplished, but by I think what we're wording is that damn yet, despite What whatever you're telling me about? You actually, who you are there there's? Definitely a country bad ass. In there you know giving get in where you fit in. If it does, that is that insulting or you know not at all I mean I don't consider myself a bad ass, but you know it's funny if necessary,. I think there are certain things, I'm kind of bad asset yeah. You know, and I've learned to focus on just doing those things. So in bloom, as we discuss yeah yeah was I
was you know showing him what you liked and interpreting it for him in post and paying homage to Kurt? And I got a lot of slack from that when that giant, yellow you know the nirvana fans, I'll fucking, fuck, em and the thing is as a huge nirvana van one of my favorite things about kurt that always likes when I was a kid with a source of interviews. He talked about how much you love country, music and rural haggard. Yeah, he covered a stanley brothers song, the unplugged you know like, and that was the stuff that I knew as a gift like this guy's awesome yes, oh, I wanted occasional beer from my What I do best as to kind of pay homage and make it I try to make it as beautiful as I could might be, weird, but not You can pull anchor covered nirvana. I think he would elected just because it pissed off nirvana fans, sure yeah end. He placed pissed off anybody. I think you would have liked it like an old segment of so yeah embrace for impact. That's the single! Are you thinking? Well, if
Jesus. If that exist, they the the let me pick the first single, so sellers go with the six main deep cut that because I I people here this album from start to finish. The whole idea of singles to me seemed viagra, love that its It's a reasonably length record. It's like a real recorder's nice online minutes. It's why s room! yet surreal record. No, no sort of loading up. You we're talking about antiquated business models before you turn the table and I think now any any There's a lot of music fans yourself included, ready by. Hopefully that's that's. That knows my first to record. They know that their get an album. and, like you know him even Adele said she doesn't want or album snapped on. You know like we're going just give him the record man, let them let them dissect it and exp, and tell me what they what it means as opposed to its rule out three tunes sit down thousands journalists answered the same seven questions just given the record right only one
ray and then we'll let on live with it and then three monthly or show up and play the thing in front of him, and everybody has great time right now, anyway, take it in his record right. I suppose spent all his money, certain things up that are just going notably happen or not right. Mozilla, surrounded the larger took off because of organic. right or too much you always, but that's the only thing that you that's all that can happen. Let anything and everything else is out of control and elsewhere. We and nothing else, really works. You do People gotta be like this shit is to shit, and then they get data. Under the other guy, get people connects with the hopefully ease their pain or worry I'll deal with that's right, trophies or not is my legs dope, it's great so brave for impact sort of like you know, don't be too scared and yet live life. A little yeah right facing were too earlier some you yeah you gonna die. Are you asking me explain my art? No,
Just I'm just going through I'm somebody's trying to sort of encapsulate the dialogue with just a kid, no doubt yet. That is what we do here in the know. How do any interviews do it all year? Because I like the idea that it is a conversation that you want the kid to have, and all around you is just knowing no matter what love him and in finding strength within yourself in your area, we are we're mortal but like you can carry memories of positive, encouraging Well people the rest of your life and that your parents will have you yeah and there's love all around you, no matter how sometimes new life you might feel like there isn't any like it's literally always there. I just wanted him to know that. I need to know that. Thank you. I'm gonna have to go. Listen to that song again. Oh sarah, first sara. I wanted to be awesome for his mother and call to arms scarcer appear face in the world. We live in. What is your concerns elegancy to its tools? To what are you afraid of fuck man? We watch the news sure
I try not to I try to keep it around the house. I dunno it just things. You can't control almost everything, almost everything. Well, I'm proud of you buddy thanks, bro Congratulations. You do great work and yourself. dude and make art for a living man, but then he also sang the fuck. Out of this record, I mean like I think he really took some chances as a singer and it's like in you can hear it. Thank you. Did you feel that yeah I wanted to mean? Hopefully I'm getting better. Come on you do great, doing great, but god don't let the fear go away. Now I like a like the angst yeah me, My buddy Bobby says I have a rocky heart whatever that means. Yes, that's right. Long as you need to see you, you know you stayed nice to your wife, a do a good job at your kid. Fine have a rocky it keeps you assholes away soon
we work in so far thanks for talking That was a mean spiritual simpson. I enjoyed that conversation immensely and I love the record: go to wtf pod dot com for all that stuff. Look at the new site. Look at my tour dates: get some merch read old, updates, look at pictures, all kinds of shit to do over their right right. What lot of good episodes that deputy, f coming up on good terms, amp on hold on. ah, I, but
in, hmm Burma is, I know you would rather heard sturgeon.
Transcript generated on 2022-09-06.