« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 786 - Will Arnett

2017-02-15 | 🔗
Unfolding world events are messing with Will Arnett and Marc as they sit in the garage, but they won't let the existential terror stop them from tracking Will's path and finding out how growing up in Toronto, getting kicked out of school, becoming a voiceover actor, hanging out at UCB, doing off-Broadway plays, and working on failed pilots all led to Arrested Development. They also discuss how the lines between fiction and reality got blurred while Will was making his new show, Flaked.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Though leads do this. How are you at the flutters? What the fuck bodies, what the fuck in what the fuck nics, what the fuck publicans, what the fuck? Oh crats, what's happened am I a mark marin? This is w p, this. Is my podcast you're? Listening to it, I assume it's not the first time, so welcome. Welcome AK is your first time welcome for the first time? How are you what going on today. My guess is: will our net from arrested development in many other things. Also he's got it show on netflix called flaked is the voice of the lego batman, which is very popular the adults and children alike. So I'll, be
talking to him in a little while, but. You know I spent years you're not making this a bullet we'll show and making it a human show and I'd like to continue making it a human show, but there yet things, have gotten very urgent But let's assume that there will be other elections, let's assume This is not to the press then for life situation. To assume that the process will pick up again couple years in some of these special actions. Let's assume that you have just said yeah dull Jimmy we not about this new group, because they have the same name as us, they're called w e F, but if for them it stands for when the future their whole point is to turn all this energy that you see in the streets and at town halls and on social media into election, results next year. There's a lot of work to do, and there are more than twenty,
five hundred critical, competitive races in states. Acrostic tree. So if you're wondering how can get involved in an active way. This w e f group- set up a way where you can get involved where you needed most to the website is valid here dad w e f. Their switchboard is now active and. Jeanne volunteers, with campaigns around the country. So go, get involved, advice, Interior died. W E, f. And I've been thinking a lot a time away from my phone and need these sort of the panic of reform in your browser, you personally, you know what is horrifying. Make outside of politics and what politicians do and how their fucking with people is that I've been through elections before I've been through different presidencies before and the fact is that look. I talk to people,
we are living. I've always talk to people for a living. Basically, that's what I've done, whether its on stage or for past, eight or nine years one on one here intimately and I've always had to believe- and I say I do believe that that, when sit down somebody one on one that you can talk to a human being, that you can talk to a person that, if you put aside I d matters political. matters that you know we share more than we doubt that we have, in common more than we doubt that Frustrations are probably more similar than they aren't how we resolve them and who we are personally and in our fear, our anger or desperation or hopelessness, or are excitement or fury or Vulnerability is common we're human beings, and I like that dialogue A lot is worn from people over the court They show many people
without designation, politically wild, even not even knowing where they come from. I get emails all the time about the struggles of your whether its drug addiction, psychological problems, anger. financial issues dark times. of whatever kind or another yahoo feel uplifted by bring. Other people talk about personal things, you that's. What you're being a human is for two yo sort of carry the weight and burden. And be there to listen other people any just fuck in terror. I mean that there were not going to be able to get back to that, even with our differences that becomes frightening. There is a a frenzy towards negligence in the name of money and power. Has very little to do with most of us.
so I get this email. It just says from a fan hey mark, there's a pretty good chance. It'll get drowned out, but it's worth a shot. I want to ask you: how is it that you create such an intimate experience? The people you interview, theirs, in all your interviews and that's. What's captivated me from the first episode. I heard I'm doing an assignment where I choose to do some community journalism, and I want to ditch the q and a format is no longer any truth in it. Do you think that The way you conduct interviews could ever be translated into other kinds of journalism. I really hope so anyway, If there's any advice, if you could give me and how to allow people to converse and other places as fluidly as as they do in the garage and very interested in hearing it had been a fan may be seven years now and your honesty provided something very special that teenagers don't get from adults. Very often, I'm headed off to college. Soon provided, valuable insights and I'm sure we'll help guide my creative intentions,
rest of my life. I want to thank you, and wish you all the best many respects Jose Jose. I've been conducting these type of conversations throughout my life, and if I really trace the roots of it, is that. I think when I was younger like when I was in high school I didn't have a real concept of of yeah a lot of things like you know what I was supposed to do, who I was supposed to he who I was you know what my interests were specifically and you're, my father was not bad to really so I found myself and a hang around places and talking to people that seem like. They knew, though, things who they were, what they wanted to do. What the was about be funny and and take life I've terms, you know it own it.
So I would hang around bookstores restaurants record shops guitar. Jobs in my neighborhood engine. he always into people talking and talk to them and asking questions and soda you just this into how people navigate their interests the world. It would make me feel better. To be around people that seem to have a handle on shit. I've done that all my life. So I think that I dont consider what I do journalism by think. That and if you approach people as people I mean, if you are, somebody knowing what you want to talk to them about. You know me, you know talk to them about something else for a few minutes. First, you ask them. actions that involve the immediate environment or or what's happening. I don't know what this setting is maybe say like you know. I don't quite understand this and you may be before I ask you this general question about a general thing. Maybe you could ever gave me on something and then get back and forth
weighing about the nuances of a particular topic and don't be afraid to do Oh of questions, the other certain moments, in a conversation where you pick up an instinct working, this sort of blow by a detail, but if anything, during what somebody is saying to you as they just move by it. Yeah seems something that has more to it: you know, and you are interested in matter- you picture interest, you know get into that. Ask him what they mean by it. You know have occurred. infestation, that's the best. I can offer and that's the way that yet you know you find common ground. Also, you you get information, just try to talk to people. If you have theirs. If it's not, you know pressing or groundbreaking or eat. You know, there's there's not breaking news. Just try to talk to the person you're talking to and death you'll make what you want and no sort of secondary and see if it comes up organically. I
Look I can't teacher journalism class, but you know if you ve got the time that's what I would do. So I guess I talked to a few days ago and ashes to prefaces, because you know it was the day that the north korean government. dare launched a test missile so that that there's a bitter fanatic underlying stuff there. That was disappointing So my conversation with will also will is the voice of bat man in the leg batman movie. Currently, the number one movie in the country. This is me, and I will net what's happening. I've I've been taught you long time has been lost. I realize like do it by me. Word you live over there I lay over there, you do yeah. I live in the in the
Yes, I am. It is a little different from the actual shit, frank vietnam, but it's you mean the nice shit is the nice shit yeah there the place where the young, the up the elite, live, I suppose I m m right in I'm cosy with the hollywood elite and its where they put signs up excusing the lack of green grass on the boulevards because of the drought. Really, that's, please forgive our guarantee we're all hurting me that kind of thing, something like that. What am, but where do you come from man? I don't. I don't really like I realise, when I was trying to do research, which I'm not good at that I know nothing about you, you're, just a funny man that that appears in things. I kind of appeared out of nowhere really yeah, even even people that sort of no unite you and I don't. each other that well, but when people say it known, unlike thanks for googling me, you know Jesus Christ, you could not a lot about me into second sure why
You can do that, but to I have had experiences where Google somebody and in its all the it's all wrong, really are. Definitely like get, there is, I think, was PAM Adeline I googled or because I was to her and theirs is all information about someone who is your father and this her stepfather it none of it was real weight, workin sorted passed him atalanta, meliot cd she didn't wipe, which I thought she was connected to someone who was in the film business or a direct just turned out. As I talked to her, that a good chunk of the information on her goop honour wikipedia page was bullshit I love you probably talked of oars and or thought about this new. In times I love the people when new, when some sort of news item drops about somebody in other dire, whatever the outcome and the people who are ready to to alter the wikipedia page that affect Larvae who the fuck
Are they? What are they doing? I know I don't know how mine appeared. I dont know who's in charge of it or who did? Did you make yours now nothing to do with it. I, as euro idea in what I love, is the ideal. Honestly, if you watch the next time like a celebrity dies, we had a second you find out about a girl wikipedia and someone's doctors. You'll you'll get like a breaking new singer, whatever it is. If you can think about a go to Wikipedia and it'll be there and died on january, tolerating you're like what the fuck? Oh, I don't know who does like who were the people better overseeing it? I know I don't even know how it works. To be honest with you know, I would I did. I know that anyone the ideas anyone can do it, but there is some sort of oversight somewhere eventually. Well, it gives you pause when you start thinking that that that is possible that that anybody can can go. Do it and it calls into question given that this sort of the legitimacy of anything that we read write on that's happening on.
Large scale now on a very large scale, but that's this. This has been happening for a long time that the Wikipedia Wikipedia and you do you in a court of law. It's it's the the old. If, if, if a witness is caught lying immediately, the lawyers will say sorry, but this person's credible if he is caught in everything they now say. Henceforth, yeah has to be taken with a grain of salt right and and if you are, why that's what's going on right now, you'd think that people would would can a wise up, and yet they don't seem to want to know. I ate, we can even begin to. I will just go down a dark hole that add that that has, validity in a lot of definition, but let's keep a personal and go down that pitiable Y hear year. Here's what we know about me! That's true, canadian born you are born in toronto. Are you leaving? Are you gone back? No, no, not anytime soon. Why,
is it about. Canadians are given when she gets real here and she gets ugly here. You just are now well, you know. I am sure that there is a lot of a honor fashionable level is its difficult for me to do the things that I want to. Do there sure there a great artist and a lot of great things that happen there and now I feel safe. Having said that, yeah but eat I sort of realized at a young, very young age, that if I wanted to be an actor and and have you know, realize my dreams, wherever the fuck, they were they're different. Now that I was going to have to leave, but we're out. That's all your family will you got brothers and sisters of two sisters, older older, really yeah. I d there there there there are three years old, and yet they have kids in everything gets nephews and one of them has kids in there and anxious two boys and they live on the street, that I grew up on really yeah
want to interrupt. She lived that sister lived in the stage for a long time and butter kids were born in brooklyn and she just move back a few years ago, are. Your folks, though there they around, my folks are still there the around really here- and I see my folks quite a bit- you do they come out here- a lot as the kids, because the kids and because I'm really I'm really close with my family, really yeah and and and my mom will probably text during this as we were talking, she gives me a lot yeah area outlets. Yes, we it's, it's really good, I'm I'm really lucky in that. My parents. Aren't you know that day very. Considering that my dad's pretty conserve In the outer ways, what's he do he's retired now here for many years he was a corporate lawyer, the opposite. It was on the other by the good guys or the bad guys,
depends on who you ask you know he worked on. He neither for many years he you know he was a use of senior or in in arguably Canada's biggest law firm, and he did a lot of his specialty was mergers and acquisitions. So you are done a lot. A big deal is around the globe and he traveled allowing as a kid in he's got along with them throughout all that I did. But you know he was he was, but he worked a lot I- and I don't mean that as an indictment, it was just that's what you did yeah my dad did that too yeah and your mom would cover for him. My mom will be home some time, yeah yeah, I mean you know it was, but I don't have you know. I didn't like pop into a therapist chair at age, twenty five and six goddammit. My dad was a here. just the way I was having said that he was great when he, when it could be
sure- and we were very close and actually in a lot of ways, my dad and I closer when and probably when I graduated high school yeah and kind about his place where his turn decide what I wanted to do. You know you your parents. You want to be an actor, especially my parents, you I went to all boys boarding school. My dad went to harvard we grew up with some bread and you are you now. There definitely had all the options available to you and yet, if you could have you given that I agree that the trajectory could have been some big business for sure lot of friends who have gone into banking, etc. Yeah alot ends Wait when you're in high school you acting in shit, I was I was, two. I left boys boarding school. I was asked not to return I'll get, so they are in did you hear what do you do tat to deserve that? I that sounds like I was kicked out of a private school where the one time is well, it's about
one right, that's great yeah! I just got here being a smart ass. It was even a bore. It wasn't even a respected like prep school right. It was day, was the shit. It was like the secondary one. What were part of the world is that now working and exit out. Ok by like there is the you know, there was the gale kind of their private school. The. Adam and then there is sort of like this andy oppressed. That's where I was always a kid. It's really well. He does attention. It seems creative, buddy bright same air. Yet let's put him in this one same here, not reaching as potential area. Nor does it seem to pay attention doesn't pay attention and for good reason when you look back I think, a lot of ways a it's funny not too to digress too much. But my my kids watching them. You know therein school now. There first say a grade and in operating
that their school and looking at their curriculum now verses. What it used to be the way that they actually teach things like math, it's much lest they but they stress less on members asian and things like that. We use that right. The way we learned and is more about using your own sort of. You mean learning it learning at your own, inherent cognitive skills like all and in applying that too, and using re things like a reason, nea and is much more engaged that way I could never fucking rat my brain around algebra. Now, like ain't, like geometry, was okay shaped second handle, but like it stop there I mean, I of chemistry, couldn't fuck. man, what is just members asian, a boring shit, I guess, but the way things work together. Yeah I mean and would have helped if someone could have taught me how how it worked, but yet it is it's. It's like they're like puzzles- yeah, I couldn't I don't. I just can't do down if I had
patients are eighty d. Eighty two attention deficit disorder. I don't think I do cause. I can get pretty obsessed and focused when I want to when I, when I feel compelled and I'm terrified yeah so met. Her hit me so magic. If somebody had had built the drama and geometry or are ineligible for yeah, maybe he would have been the app. Maybe I don't know alike. So you are your problem kid or what to an extent a smart ass yet- and I was you know- get big laughs smoke in the woods And big last, I still remember some big laughs. You do for her shore with the big laugh gosh. Every once in a while, I think about sighing, prep school laughs, yeah, just something we completely undermine the authority structure constantly yeah. They can't there's no tolerance for that financial costs and I would have you know, I'd back in the day allotted the, and I think this is changed led by back then allow the guys, the men,
became teachers in boys, boarding school yeah out in the middle of fuckin, nowhere, canada yeah. You have to think that alone Some of those people are pretty depressive have given up. So by means of our people. That light want to teach, there are some. I will say that there are some at some fantastic teachers, but there were a couple who were who had who resented the student body who were left. These are a bunch of rich little kids, yeah and fuck them. An ominous are meant to be the one to grinding down. You know no parents turn around and I'm gonna have my foot. Gonna be on our nets throat every fuckin day, and you know I got into at once. you know I I when I was in, I went away when I was twelve yeah, and so when I say oh, it's a boarding, school boarding, school, and his way up north uniforms uniforms, and so I was I was. I was twelve,
years old and I had my shit was all over my room. I was twelfth yeah and my housemaster, as he was called, had told me a couple of times. You gotta clean up your shit and have the gear so it came back one day from class in all my shit was packed into his car and he said hop in and he drove me six miles away. Yeah and I had like six garbage bags or four garbage bags full of shit and- and he said you are You'Ll- you'll clean up your shit now and he dropped me on the road there in the middle of winter and these bags were heavy and had, and I had to kind of like what the the fuck. Am I going to do and I thought what an asshole it's, your clothes and everything clothes and everything and booked a shit rea. So I was like I was at first. I was like alright this. What am I to take to the bags and go one hundred yards go back and get the other two. This is untenable, so I sat there for a second felt, sorry for myself and then I got the idea and history.
Putting everything on the like the michelin man and then I was tucking everything in and I had put an end to all sorts of shit and I managed to two where everything- and I am- so I must have looked insane yeah and I did it. He and I walked back and I I walked back in. You know record time and I came back and the look on his face. He was so pissed that, I figured out an easy way to do it and in my Nothing like this is brilliant should be celebrating, were learning that was it. I was learning actual learning applied cognitive skill and he was so pissed at me. I still remember that guy he wanted you to walk back when I'm now, when you walk back and have to drag them, I also did this thing where I forgot what it was, but we had gone to this thing and we had bought. bunch of food and we had an ok ever hear, and he wanted us to write letters to our parents, saying sorry that we had bought all this food right, cheeseburgers and charged it to her thing.
The fucker, your parents, doing me where you like day when my parents and it gets so my parents find out- and there like that's fine, we're happy you got some food and whatever, and but this guy was like you know, factories gus yeah, so he sent away you gotta. Each one of you has to write a letter to your parents, apologizing and and the nominal. Ok them I'll look at the letter if we send them off so knowing that he was going to write, it did that he was gonna. Read it. I wrote this letter. There was just an indictment of him yeah and I said dad, I'm so sorry, but obviously MR mister, slew, etc, etc, and I just ripped into him- and I left it at his door flying anything you oh fuck him and I said how dare you that's? It corresponds between me and my parents, your violet the federal law, you know yeah, and and did he send it now? He made me redo it. I was afraid that was admittedly, was now that I say it out loud is dictating to deal, and yet I still maintain that he had to
It's funny yeah. You sure you gotta you gotta, like you know he has been a kind of prod those guys for sure, so you can see what they're really made of yeah and and so what so, what happens you go through all of highschool. At that point So now I I leave there and I go to white. What made them? Kick you out just a clump of things: yeah, just a collection literally same thing: just hang a smart ass, yeah yeah and they just didn't say: you're kicked out, but the end of tenth grade. They said we'll see later Might they recommended military school? For me really, my parents were never do another again. I remember there is a period where they were looking. Maybe should go like they were, so louis, you might arise where kinda you know they just the universe
I don't think they were that engaged they were like we'll go to that scored should be fine and then, when it comes down to it, but maybe not I mean the fact that they didn't if they were really clueless, they would have said yeah you're right, okay, we'll send him to military school. At least they didn't do that well, yeah! Well, they weren't disciplinarian, that's for sure, but I don't ever remember them. Helping me with homework or anything I dunno- I don't ever number you know. What's going on in school, it's a different world. My my kids said to me a few months ago. I picked them up in you know. Do the the carpool lane in one of my sons, said you know John Michael's mom she comes in, she hasn't do carpal. She comes into the class and get some rest, driving, unlike leaning over him, saying, hey grandad, my grand. I didn't even know where my school was it. You got. I never saw my dad at my school ever mean either whether called in yeah. Maybe yeah did you ever. I remember I had a drunk electronics teacher really like there was like. I had three drunks for teachers. It was much more acceptable back then for tea to be drunk adjusts, melhem drunk enough
river smell, but I knew that there were teachers who drank cause. They lived on campus yeah, who drank at Jani, check and see if a the missiles have been launched. Yeah, that's at any moment right guy hope not, but it's a sad fucking stay the fair that we've gotta to not yet not that I've got. You got what you got anything. Let me see nothing yet. I feel like me up and ok. Okay now I feel like we're good we're good for now. Okay, so wait so a world we live in. I can't to I know, I'm having I am dealing with yeah me too. I I can't imagine that I I just can't like anyone who's like connected, you know intensely to what's happening. I can't imagine anyone gone like so good. It's going. Well. Is no way, but let's get back to you, canada in like a way, I think toronto is a great city indifference. I always
This is like this smells like a real city without the the menace. Yes, yes, I like it up. You just see, see people sitting on part benches at twelve. night the out just taking it in my what's happening. You know, there's nothing happening there and you know it's funny. Since I've set over toronto there there are people, including my parents, say oh of they had some shootings. It's almost they're trying to validate its its status as a real down and dirty city. I used to make this stretch calling it a joke, but I would I would say a lot of people say that toronto is a a clean new york and I prefer to think of it as a dirty when a big but here's some truth so that, which is yeah, I'm in as a kid growing up and as a teenager there is never any eve. There was never any fear that anything bad was. Can he has no edge
do it like? You know right now. I could use that now. I would feel like it would be an unpleasant few weeks. If I just I was terrified of my own put people. Well, it's it's was true that I you know I moved to new york in nineteen. Ninety. I was twenty years old, so let's go back, then let's say you get you get kicked out of the prep school, yellow, a regular high. I went to a what they call an alternative school in toronto yeah and where I didn't really have classes per se, and it was all kind of essay based and it was run through the. Abortive education. I love that when creative people actually go to those goals it where you started, do what you want, how does act and end up well well you know, you did it iter, Ok for me. You know I'm here It's just who I gave was it like a like? It was kind of like this. I was drinking coffee and talking to people I mean I've been doing. I've been doing this for afford a thirty five year, whatever it is.
it. You aren't you you are. It doesn't give you any practical skills for life, but not not. If I would have wanted anything other than what I'm doing very, which is it. Campbell. It was a big worry about. It worked out. I said to my dad recently said: who knew that goofing off is going to pay off so well yeah what he say. He agreed reluctantly but yeah. I went to this school and I actually I studied theater and I was able to get it forward and studied it. On on your honor with a guy, I know I went to her. There was an actual theatre in toronto, called tarragon theater and they had a sort of his studio down at their where they had an my I had my godmother. Wa ran this school. She was good friend of my moms and my benches still around in my aunt, Judith and m. It's all right now by one of the more influential people in my life and she she was the person who actually kind of raw.
You got me interested in learning on a different in a different way and I I sort of rule the fact that didn't happen earlier, be as she encouraged me to read. You know it should say I ve. No doubt I just read: hemming, don't just read the sun also rises, read all of hemingway and tell me we, and- and I just did it on my own- and I discovered things like reading- became such an important part of my life, because I was encouraged to do it and to engage in a way This is why your aunt yeah, now it's nice to have one those influences. You know that the air, the sort of
am creative intellectual yeah push yeah for sure and in who? When I'm sixteen- and I say you know, I think I want to be an actor she's like that's great yeah and here's what you should do and and yeah and don't tell your parents, don't tell your parents, and while I'm I'm looking for from her, I'm looking for sort of official certification, that this is the right move right and and- and that was a great move for me going there and learning with her and it was a good time in my life- was the theatre. Like I mean do you know it's funny. Might I took a class there? It was monologue writing near there's a guy in my class who is running these pizarro monologues, there are really funny perform them himself and I was sixteen and he was probably twenty five or twenty two year and he's trying to be vienna
or comedian cetera and one day between you know like on a smoke break cause. I was already a heavy smoker, and you start you know thirteen yeah. What what canadian theresia, which ones players light? Oh yeah, yeah, they're, good yeah! I used going ice like getting exotic cigarettes like outboard. Ain t worry about never like a taste on there too much. I smoke these. I in iceland knock em. Why quit and then I'm back a kind of like on my last letters of these are mobile gold from europe their debts. although smoke for a while, I was like I'm I'm only some of those that I can get my hands on and then I just had people kneeling than from any you're about seventy gonna hear about hey. Can you forty bucks to gravity some small hooks secretarial smoking,
I can obtain this guy and he says when you come down, you should come down next weekend. We're doing got this comedy group and we're doing some stuff. Some sketches at the river mia in toronto- and I was like Yeah- sounds great when you guys called the kids in the hall, and it was a mark. kenny, that's who was talk here and I would I took a monologue running clause. He doesn't know he has no idea. Why am I m sure of and it today I think time he probably knows you are now. Maybe maybe, but you know I was sixteen and I we was in my class. Yes- and he was funny- Oh, my god, he was so funny. He was the star of the classier. Any was about yeah and I loved how absurd you. I had an appreciation for that. I don't want you to wait. the kids and how shall I go. I've had so many things like that and I had years later in new york. I I had. I lived in a
thing on hudson street, read across from the holland tunnel here and the guy living upstairs. For me what you have terrible here, the buildings and even their anywhere, is rat and fast and was before like that area was cool. We used to call the neighbourhood work when people went, there were people, The work in those that are buildings are all condos, not right in the guy upstairs me was Damien load this you're gonna had a moment fifteen years ago right, but he he and I my roommate, worked at goldman sachs and so he pay. Or rent than I did and then damien I would spend the day smoking cigarettes, and yet he is art at that time consisted of he'd take high death. It was one of the first as a new had high death, camera and television, the high debt videos of himself having sex with his asian girlfriend and then
make paintings of that. Ah, so I love going to a studio yeah. It was great right upstairs just watching him. Fuck people on camera is amazing and he had a buddy of his same thing. He's a dj. I'm a dj can see us play bow by anime. No, I'm good. Bobby, think some movie was hanging around there must have been when he was just starting now cause he, I think, movies from connecticut yeah. I get he Well, you know it sounds so damien. Maybe they asked where they knew each other, but I you know, I didn't really know him and he was he was definitely he didn't have a record deal or unsure made to records and may enough money to leave the rest of four lives. Unbelievable yeah, that's a fuckin racket. That's the business yeah we're those guys it did record to songs even the I'm good back in that sweet spot. before it went away. I was it I'd see. Why would be a serious actor yet so moved to new york?
to end I studied it ass, your Asperger at oh, you did say after the theatre, Well, do you moved to new york on twenty? A really do I come out about. I went to. I went to college for half you're, an I dropped out can order university montreal and I got to college ends. I remember it was right around Chris it's time mia and I remember all I was doing was partying, like everybody else sure- and I remember thinking this- is it I. I really did in not that not like some fuckin visionary when I was nineteen years old and I thought what what else I'm just going to kind of do this and then move back to toronto and a lot of the people. I grew up with were there in montreal at college and then everybody's going to go back to toronto and just be friends forever in the same group, yeah, sort of upper middle class, white, kids, yeah,
and I thought, oh, my god. This is a nightmare and I gotta get out of here and I remember calling my parents from a pay phone. There used to be a thing called the pay phone we'd go and you put money in just add the listeners yeah. They were kind of. They were kind of dirty, they're kind of terrain yeah, and it's I see some of them around. Sometimes I'm, like wow, look that I saw two in new york last week. Yeah bizarre. It is weird while it didn't One of them didn't have a phone initially. I used it to make a call because it was quiet right and it was out of their light. A cigarette yeah I used to duck into payphones. To do one hits of weed sure. Though one hit her best, the best And yes, I call my parents had about the white light moment. Yeah, you saw your ear your death through mendacity and exactly an ice and an eye to my dad's credit. He said. Ok, I said I gotta do this and, and they said well, what are you? What are you proposing this and I gotta go and try gotta neo it was always a new york yet and they
ok, well, you can have to come back and I got a job for six months. Yeah I drawn to make enough money to so that I can. I can move to new york was a job I was selling paper towel and toilet paper and divide that this guy new started this company. really yeah. Do you remember? Do you remember I would not do remember. There's they still exist. It's that swedish companies as its torque or something You know you pull the paper down from the middle is like a big round dispenser and em. Oh yeah, and then some of the the toilet paper rolls are a huge role. Yeah that you see him in the airport in airports and shit yeah and at the time they they were just coming to north america from sweden, and this guy got a distributor, ship or whatever, and I worked for He was a year older than me, and he had this company and I need go to place. and go this yet go right rise in restaurants and sell it to them and then I'd install it as well,
That was a one man. You know one then talk any hour, so I'd go in there. You know some restaurant be like ok yeah. We want to switch over dollar and by I knew nothing about construction installation all. I cannot yet and I had like a toolbox. I go to the bathroom and I'm like putting in I can in through that door. through tile like I just learn, I'd fucking cracks. in whatever and ruin, and then you know I do Did the commission gig? Is a commission gig? and your good salesman. I was decent. Yet I was diesel We may have to go to new york amid enough to moved to new york for for one year, and now you know about that company. Whereas it I'll talk, talk, talk, talk,
just go around yahoo or a cue. I think. Rather there it sort of problematic would toilet paper, sometimes because, if it, if the, if the end is not hanging out than your scrooge, yes harding and heavy, she had a role in my hand. I am not happy with no, especially in a place where no one unrefined well, where you want to touch the least amount of things as possible. I said the kids now when we go into a pub, am I don't touch anything and do what you gotta do and make it to this? and then air dry your hands as do what bitches just don't touch so did that then I moved to new york. What was the plan? That was where you lived in the work neighborhood that no first I lived. I lived on the upper east side, I got an apartment from I sublet an apartment from a girl who was who had been at strasburg and she submit it to me I to have oh so how'd you get in
that programme I went down and met with them food at a new york before you went before I went yeah and and met with them and and then I went back there sort of like you are dish inner. Who is it? Did you remember the teachers I don't remember the teacher than I did. I did like a monologue. I dont member who the teacher was, but I had a very influential teacher at strasbourg who is acting teachers guide, george laura's aloe r, o s again. I go back to toronto. a grab. My shit answers nothing. I the first five years they lived in new york. I can, hu. I moved a lot. I could move with one cab satellite to bear. I had nothing and food
I and a futon yeah. Barely I didn't even own a bed at first like I was go, buy futon, buy new fruit and throw it on the floor. You know what john mattress on the floor. I still to this day think that the best sleeps I ever had you think so yup I had one on twenty first street. For years I lived on twenty first street between seventh and eighth. and I remember those being like the deepest sleeps. Maybe I had no worries back then made I mean I remember. Like I remembered the day, I realize that what kind of a racket by their you yet your base klute on that got hard the over a year or so, which was pretty good. But then he started doing foam, wars in layers and like I started to realize, like this, you beds in general, I think at some sort of scam Maybe although people were argue: hey, listen. You spend a thirty year, life dad
it'd be yeah. That should be the highest ticket. I remember when I got a very expensive futon frame, pulled it up off the floor, but my apartment on the lower east side is not really big enough to accommodate it spatially yeah. So one room was just the bed frasier yeah. I I see now I never liked the frame they were never comfortable to me. So just that- and I would roll up during the day yet so I m, whereas bates yeah, I tell you there five years, what are you doing on there to learn? What do what do you use now? What did you take with you? Ah, what's your technique and craft yeah, the only one, I talking about more than actress craft is independent film I mean it's like I talk to people to go to strasbourg and I've talked to actors in light there you, I guess it's all like I, we then, if you have some sort of talent forward, you have it but I mean you do learn something. Well, you know it's. Yes, you do, and something- and I I you know- I had a lot of great- I did have some good teachers. I had.
You know you first start there. You're learning is all sense, memory, stuff, it's methods! You know all that good. If you d could rapid brain around a little at first, That was what the fuck is, this shared and and you're doing, you're sitting in a chair and the whole point is to try to relax as much as you can on an uncomfortable charity. what are you in your mind? You like this. Can't this can't be a house It helped me be on law and order, but what it did do Was it helped me kind of tap into the idea of full elixir focusing on concentrating on what I I guess, what I mean? being in the moment near. I suppose her, but I had with george loris, was great because when a lot of the other two We're talking about the method in all these things that you in preparation yeah, he would then say he had been. Accurate and a million things and- and he said, there's no, sir,
and there's no director who's, going to wait for you to fucking, get into fucking character, you've gotta be ready to go and he was yeah much more about the practical application right and his number one thing was about being sensitive to the material and and he was he really great teacher in that way. I remember him to this other guy doing a guy and a girl were doing a scene. I forget what it was from via george would sit in the front row of this little theater. and they're doing a scene where the guys bringing the girl home for a date or something yeah, and he says I'm gonna- stop you're right there near, and he says the guy tony's is tony. What is europe active and ashamed for your character and his guy tony say why I'm gonna come home and this grilling goes no. No! No, no, no tony! You want to fuck her con. he's an amateur goes out: cheeses, george and all the women in the class like georgia, and he too I remember this ain't, your internet I'm sorry, I'm say vagina
as hilarious is that was. It was also very helpful. You know it helped me gonna break down like oh yeah. That's breaking! and scenes and other kind of things is very just. It's only asked about applying logic. They I need to get better at that as an actor too, because, like just show up in it and the other on the lines of my guide. Any did I know what's going on but like I think, if you really put an objective there ya in your head, upright I hang the words on something a little better yeah, yes and it probably will there are all sorts of like little things. I feel like it's always just about stuff that you pick up along the way, and you hear things here and there. I remember growth I had years ago, when I lived at the new york yeah, she had done. She did dead men walking. She was in the in the first part of that and
she had told me. I heard the second hand that TIM robins had said the most important thing is entrances and exits, and that stuck with me, as I the twenty five year old, ok, yeah makes sense. Yes, it's always been closed bay and has always been a thing. This kind of in the back of my mind, of actually practically I'm an ice since it. Gotten to know him a little bit, and I am tim robin then I saw him a year ago were shooting in venice and he came by on his bike were chosen by the way remember: missy was in your many years ago, She told me this and I told him then he kind of like. Oh, did I acutely remember: that's don't even his thing necessarily or you thought it was like a buddha moment right now, yeah, but no, but it's weird how things I got that make sense to me, but you know any walk in ya or yeah right when your seen starts yeah yeah plant yourself and then you have take the beats necessary to exit beautifully
Somehow, absolutely people don't remember everything in the middle EAST. They remember is, is you coming? the annual leave, especially if it's a lifeline, anita, thus absolutely the exit lifeline. powerfully in of even in life? If I, if I get a decent enough, laugh for the exit yeah, oh yeah, like usually you do and then come back now I got our has gone if you're going around the idea of driving this airplane, like I do that in fights to like you know, fuck this fuck, you are now and then he walked out new. I am gone I now or do you have a lot of fights used to you? Did I try to cut back yeah me. I wish I had a sort of search myself and figure out what was really going on there mademoiselle just an insane discomfort with intimacy and the idea that was being manipulated constantly.
shit man, I mean it your on top of it. Can I smoke in here yeah no like what way like when I realized lately, because if the woman with now was is interesting, is that you I'd, get upset about something and I'd start a fire, and she says it goes. You know your arguments yourself, you just making up all this. that I'm doing and I'm not doing anything- and I had this more like as kind true, but you gotta fucking with me now. The re use so. You ve already kind of had half the argument before you got it. Yeah yeah, projecting you're, just projecting all these things that they did their doing their thinking, really all your insecurity. I think like argument yourself, it's funny say that I think I do that. I realise that that I sometimes hold we do a version that and then I'll criminal and I'll go getting ok, yeah and there like.
Why not and then everything, oh, because we've just had an argument- yeah yeah yeah. I went through some shit with you in my head, or is there an ashtray that works over? This is okay that obama smoke now, okay, good for you. He had a t, that there and how to tee. I was hoping you smoke baden smoke. I think he manages it gave him. I think, he's a good guy, didn't you smoking out, as he had one do think since probably I I dunno that I don't. I can't assume, but I think he's right got it down cause. You know, he's got he's, got a family and you know he's older and it's sort of a hard habit to defend. After a certain point. Oh it's a it is the worst I liken it to ah I often say that I'm it's like I'm cleaning the gun. Then I'm going to use to shoot myself with yeah. It's! Oh this! Oh no, this just if this is the thing? That's going to kill me and I'm just getting it there yeah. It looks good though right wheels good. I eat these nicotine lozenges all the fucking time. Let me look at this they're great
it wasn't the miller agents. Are they? Oh, my god, like you, know like a for me, because I'm a fucking got it yes and no drunk yeah. I drunk vienna. At you're near an addictive personality? But, like you know, I get what I I get the buzz the you know what I mean like. like I look forward to it at night, young away captain have one with my coffee, I'm gonna feel it yeah yeah like sometimes they It's like you feel, but then it goes away too quickly to a too fast. But this Is you kind of let him linger in your mouth, yet a good delivery system. It is that's exactly right, good delivery system. So what are you and the first roles? What are they? What happens When did you become? Will our net that was arrested development where everyone's like that's the guy? I was always I was just waiting for everybody else to figure it out there, but some things that weren't necessarily comedy now or was he always comedy know I I I I did some and I I, while
I started working in new york. I did a year. I was doing it kind of a off about as far up broadway one act play and a girl who worked it william, Morris yeah into your pact in what was to wag play. It was called answers he had and I was like a guy in the cops get him to confess to somehow he didn't do it. S like you know, and I play this kind of like small theatre, some any theatre like ninety theatre. And a united play. This kind of like serve junkie yeah. You know and by the way when I was- and I was twenty three when I was twenty three- I look like I was twelve clear. It was not, but I was apply all my acting you re doing yanking those pauses the guy here and she brought me in to William Morris.
and while I was there meeting with, you know these agents and- and they were going to start sending me out- one of them said you should go and talk to the people in the voice over department and the and, I said sure what What's that and they ever thought about the voices on commercials and seven, I said no never occurred to me are people yeah, yeah, yeah, other voices on commercials, and I went talk to them and they they said. Well, we're going to start sending you out and and immediately this or you know, centimeter auditions, and it wasn't very long, I'm going to say probably two months into it. May I yeah, I got my first gig for for a healthcare company out of new england at harvard community health plan, aha, where what healthcare should be yeah yeah, I'm in yeah yeah, and they flew me to boston to
coordinate which was kind of unusual, and but it was, I guess it was cause. It was a whole radio and television campaign and they were all there as a kind of twenty, the originals yeah, the recording right. They brought me up there and I think they were probably surprised when I walked in yeah cause. I sounded like an older, right, yeah yeah, you've always had ways yeah yeah and then I was like a punk kid yeah, but you did it. I did it and then I started working lot in voiceover and I was able to pay the bills and, and then some and you know I became the voice of evian water and the you know boston market, and
Lay's, potato chips, loud hershey's, cookies and cream really are making money yeah. The the I was making real money and- and the funny thing I said recently actually was it occurred to me. I was making like executive level money yeah and I would do things like lockheed Martin. I would do all these weird corporate things like sunday, gulf type, the commercials, yeah and aim investments invest with confidence. You know stuff like that. Yeah and again I was like this punk ass care. He has like burning out in new york and but it was, it became, is very lucrative in it meant that I didn't have to have. No, I my friends were waiting tabled her ever right and I didn't have to do that, and I probably go lulled into a sort of olive account larry booze and yeah yeah. That was without constant
know there were a few years where I wasn't and then and then I was in the mid to late nineties. I was, and I was boozing a lot and and I would go to mcmanus a lot on. You know on seventh avenue, the nineteenth street. That was my spot. Oh yeah, it ended up becoming like a big kind of after you he be hang out and a shitty by right, yeah. So you are, if you're, the guy drinker, that was a shitty little bar, but it was still a shitty little bar. It was a yeah. It was before it was like, I hang out too became that because my buddy, you know for not yet I do so. It was because of our lee used to hang but I knew I leave through different guys from north carolina. Really, that's how I kind of met all all those sort of you see, people and stuff, and my ex wife where's through ellie, oh yeah, I remember him, I like it, isn't he teach now and yet I can t. I got his own data, the riot pit right and, like you know, there's a member. There is wide pirie of when, because I remember when the easy be showed up in new york yeah
You remember when they hear they were doing. You know Luna lounge with me, and then they started that first year, with the with the weird seats, the one while she lived on top of another that one? That was one on twenty seconds: red thou as their first later, but right for that they were doing. They would do ass cat on Sunday nights upstairs seventeen street with. That place called- and I remember a young jake Fogel nest sharing in the front row and he was just fan and him like him, tittering with his friends yeah. I know, and I mean of course now I have since known jake for years. I knew him when his dad used to bring him to comedy, show yeah like when he was like a ten and his dad would be around sometimes ban and one
agents from willie moore's from back in the day in nineteen. Ninety six, it was like january. Ninety six and he says to me: you've got a I've. I've just got this new young comedy troupe from Chicago and they've, moved here, yeah and they're performing at the west bank theatre on forty second street. The restaurant downstairs there's all the theater yeah. I remember that, and it was, you see, be doing a bucket of truth. There sketchup air and it was a walsh and besser, and in and Amy and they did but the truth, and that was different and his peter prince Pado react was then who is now might has been my manager for years. Still still, I remember him yeah, yeah and p It has been- and he was my agent starting in ninety three. I remember when he was an agent yeah him and his weather jacket coming around. I just spoke to him the whole way here, yeah and yeah and Peter had said you gotta go see. This
was a kind of addicts to him yeah. I was. I never really had this social graces to understand how show business worked. I would always go out of my way to be a dick to all the people that could possibly help make sure there was your badge yeah. That was. that was it. You have to get me out of the add that the real work for a long time so eight, so so this agent, she do voice over someone d d start taken into the acting. So I did a couple independent films and none of them can really did anything, and, and it was back when they were making a lot of independent films yeah the place. It was very in vogue and I got my first kind of really sort of paying acting gig. I did a pilot for CBS and it was in ninety six. It was that that same winter, ninety six year, pilot for warner, brothers, CBS, yeah,
well grant and Lee and Kevin Pollack was the star yeah and- and I was auditioning in new york for pilots, and they saw my tape in and and flew me out to test, for it was yea big deal, and you know I I I guess I never. I always, I liked the idea of comedy, but I never really talked about it in that way. I was a stand up at 'em up through sketch and it just didn't seem like something that was on my it. Just wasn't on my radar right. and it wasn't. A thing in new york is much. There stand up certain rights, but the sketch thing what happened. You hadn't really happened and I you know yet ends, so I when I did this pilot in in a dig it picked up, but I'd kinda did ok, I think, and then I started auditioning and testing more for pilots. And every year I would serve tester testing. They would fly me out for five ten pilots in air and I get really close and then I did
I did another pilot a few years later for at this time I will say I was. I was boozing and I promise look my best and was not in the best form of rum, but in I could still do my voice over as making increasing bag increasing am so I was like fuck it. I don't care, and then I had a moment I was like alright, I gotta get my shit together in kind of pair that down and and quit it, but right right before that. I did it With my friend, Michael Mally, called Michael they show. I remember him bc yeah, then he famously his mind for a minute. No, that's one of those that that's a story gonna taken on its own life he had during the show it was back when they were giving up these big. velma deals right. I remember I had one knotty, I not his big but
yeah yeah he had one and they in it. Lots of people had these yeah and and MIKE had this this big deal and he went. He went to make a movie from the time we shot the pilot till the time we were shooting the the series he went made, the movie. I think it was twenty eight days, who is yes, you're right wasn't at the editor down on yes right yeah, so we went to the movie, so it may movie and he comes back and- and he felt like the writing staffing, way off of what the original idea well yeah and mike is he's still very close friend of mine and one of the all time, great guys, great people he's a solid yeah. I always see him in things and he's good in. I saw him and he was in scaly. He was good, he's really good, he's a good actor he's a really good writer, yeah and and but but most of all he's a incredibly good guy yeah and he wrote this what became to be known as manifesto to all his writers, yeah saying: look, I've got this responsibility, he's from new Hampshire he's in some sort of color lay sick. He took it really soon.
that they gave me all this money. He felt a sense of responsibility to do the right thing with a show and make it the best version possible right. He wrote this thing and really out of a good place, and some in the writers room immediately facts it to every other writers room here, leaked it late it. It was in that and then they printed it in the hollywood reporter and he became in everybody was you know he was basically the laughing stock remember the day that that happened and he was so he's. Like I fucked up, I shouldn't have. I guess I shouldn't have given a shit and he was so despondent yeah, and I thought you know what fuck everybody else. That's bullshit he's such a good guide. If there's anybody that did not deserve it was him and he be. He became known as a guy like lost it for a minute and by no means there's. Nobody whose If there's anybody who never lost it, it's Michael O'Malley, I'm glad survived, you know
it was at that time. I'm sure I was like a geezer that guy, I know, probably at my own resentment about him. Well, as you know, it's like it's. The everybody in this town especially, is like. let him see you try and the area. Yes, I did all these things and then and then eventually I around two thousand, I got sober and I kind of got me shit together, You ve been sober thou. Well, I had a I had a moment. Last year were after fifteen years I kind of went out cause. every was talking about. Rosanna was never around before rosy say it's a bit, but when I ended up having a sort of a moment for how long a moment, let's let's call it six. My but I don't want to hear so the particulars but a year- and I will actually talk about recently, and- and I sort of did this interview with the, report last year and I kind of.
mentioned that and then, of course immediately, it's like the daily mail, like Arnett hits hits the bottle like as, if I'm like, living under a bridge from here. How fucked that's not what happened like you can't talk about it, because people just use everything against you. This is clickbait yeah, yeah and but anyway, That was the moment back then dead, dead kind of my in two thousand two thousand the summer of two thousand and two It was ass if a pivotal moment in my life and and then I I was living out here briefly in venice and then you get married. We marry twice yeah. I got married when I was very young when I was twenty four briefly for a month. It's on my wikipedia page He put it on there a long time ago, here for a month literally like a month. one of them. I was twenty four yeah and kind of at the moment and as soon as we did it, I like, oh god, I'm not kidding like at city hall in new york,
How long have you known her a month now? The outward again? it's the newer month and I went and got married and I wasn't drinking yeah yeah and it was just no good. It was just stupid, it was it was like and she thought it was stupid. Eventually she did initially. She wasn't cited that I that I came to Jesus before she did. But again I was I was twenty. I was so dumb. I was twenty four I mean young people are dumb. No, I know- and I include myself in that you do not get caught up in Feelings- were yeah we're sensitive people? Yes, yes, yes, you're right! This is it and then you realize, like while I learned what not it is yes and and I realize years later like oh, I still am capable of making major. Stakes hard man, yeah yeah as you know getting to know why the patterns yeah, that's a fuckin trick,
and then and then knowing them is one step. The next step is like: don't do that young Well, learning to go is the hardest thing for me to learn how to do was to go, take a take, a beat, yeah, don't be impulsive and let it sit for a second. Yet and then re- and you know I don't need to have a reaction. You lie. Do that, I'm I'm better at it near so. alright, so tell me about the how of arrested development happened because as I so I moved back, I was in of living new york. Now I moved back to new york, I'm in the constancy for at war. Yet let's see I don't get anything awaits shit now. Answer. We all agree that that moral logo is not the winter white house right. What we all agree is not the place to her.
yo national security confidential classified briefings at the table with other died out other diners round. Again, that's not the best way to this that the best way to conduct a classified international security issues yeah. I moved back to new york. Amy my ex wife Amy point did you meet her though I may. I know you met her way back in yet another way back. We we'd sort of before that. I met her. I went as ali for knocking state date to a dinner too coffee, Lou in new york in the nineties, and now this is like late. Two thousand I'd gone back to new york. We met before, but this first time we will just gotten sober, yeah yeah like four months before us. That's all. The time to make impulsiveness. Yes. Well, you know
In my defense, I wasn't really doing. I was just kind of I'd. Come back to new york for a couple weeks I was visiting my sister here, Ali said I'm going to this dinner here with my buddy fred weller and his then well for now, wife and ally, and and my buddy jack and and yeah. My my friend had gone on a on a date with Amy and and then she was coming to this dinner, but it wasn't really working out with them. This is post match amy yeah, post, Matt besser yet and she and we just we hit it off. We started. which out the whole night and then she can in california in and they were doing, shows out here january continued to and we went out
times and it was great and then we started dating, and she was basically out here kind of with me and I did a pie, another pilot that used to empower the time with judd called north hollywood, with with jason, siegel and judge reinhold, and then and then she got she got right arm. And it was eight July of that year, two thousand one and she was I should I do this yeah it was like a real. I am not violating it, it was just you know, we talked about it and she wasn't sure- and I said yeah, let's, let's go, and so we moved back to new york as a arrested happened like this, so amusing personnel and not married. Yet we were not married. What were we were? We
Then we then got engaged yeah like a year and a half later, and I did a pilot. Another pilot for seed as per the twentieth for CBS, for your work and many of his voiceovers and pilots and and guest appearances, young you're, making a living jacket yeah. I was making a good living at it and I was I was kind of content in a way and- and we were, I was doing a pilot firstly, every spring yeah seemed like- and I do this pilot though, and it gets picked up and in every conceivable and I had a bad feeling just about the way that everybody was kind of dealing with me and remember Saint peter, prince Pado, there's something something's up now: you're crazy, you're paranoid. yes, I know, but in addition to that something's up here and sure enough, I got fired off this pilot. The show called still standing that ran for a few years
CBS, and I remember I remembered getting the call from Petersen. I don't know how the fuck you knew, but you are right. and I felt that this point has been doing it long enough- that I could sense- you know shit like that, in the end it was. I was really mad on a lot of levels. I was disappointed. You know that I was fired. You feel kind of embarrassed you feel like people care. Obviously nobody notices yeah, but you feel like I, you just if you'll shitty- and I remember my friend Brian Cowen, news I'm your man Brien's enemy, oh what you're mad. we're going to have one scene a week where you come in and you're the guy who goes hey what the hell happened to my couch. You should be happy they're doing you a favor at it and it was he's like stop. Stop feeling, sorry for yourself, and so that's that fall. I decide
I had to do a play. There was a guy had done a a reading with the summer before a couple: summers before new york stage and film up at vassar, and he was coming to new york and he's doing a play about the the tragedy at lockerbie called the women of lockerbie. Aha with the new group in I call peter prinspo- and I say I'm not reading for anything for pilot season and he's like therapies deficit. Now you know what I'm done. I'm done with being disappointed. and- and I don't want to have anything to do with it any more yeah, I'm not going to audition and boy the tv business can be really missing me and then I get it. I remember my friends started talking about this script arrested development, an the woman who cast the show that I got fired from the year before dead borinsky when I was fired, sent me a hand, written letter, yeah and said, which is really sweet and said I thought you were great in the show I dont want. You did don't take this personally that they fired you. I think they made a big mistake. I think you're a talented guy and I think it's a real in just
as etc, etc, and it was very sweet, never nobody's ever done that before and or since and and she was casting arrested, development dabrowski and she called peter principle- and she said: there's this part of the brother who's a magician. They can't cast it and and will should come in and read for it and peter communist You know what this very nice deb, but I'm not interested in doing this fucking play about the women of lockerbie, meme, the tragedy over lockerbie yeah and so debited up calling me yeah, and she said you just gotta read for it and I said fine and he faxed me the fax roll bulgaria to my up our apartment. We had done in and try back at the time and I took the subway up to read. You know to go to some office the west side in the attack on tape. My assistant-
yeah yeah. I just read this: I just got the size. I don't even have that script yeah, I might add the scribd. I didn't read it like that I'll read the site. Yeah put it on tape, don't think about it. I get a call the next morning, they're like great. They want to fly out to california and they're going to make a testament Jesus Christ. it's funny. When you don't give a shit erect a writer. I I don't know I don't give a shit. I gotta meet my body giles whose my my oldest buddy loose here now and yet PETE giles. He and I are at mcmanus he still drinking at the time ass. It was like friday at one and he's and were playing video. We played golden tee for hours, the amount of money and time I put into golden t here. I gotta go to law school twice: do you got in real life? I do but my gulf these days I hurt my knees and I'm old, but ah so I'm playing video golf and playing golden tee at mcmanus with giles and principle recalls again, these listen, you got it. You gotta go home and sign your test yoke. As you know, you sign, attest, deal
for you audition your final task for you. They work out your contract and then you go before network. You go before network so that if they want, you can't go great. So my prices double right again. You've already made you'd have been in that situation. It makes it it makes the it makes the sort of that fuckin. When you gotta go. room for the network. People and everything else. You've signed a test deal just a worse. Fuckin exceeds the worse and if you think about it, if you're an out of work actor, who doesn't have a lot of do you now got the extra carrot of oh, you could make x amount of money. If you do this right and if you don't your year, is fucked yeah, it's terrible any pay, your own flights yeah and all that shit here. So I go so he keeps calling me. Have you I'll go home and Elson the deal was the studio Look at my tape until I sign my test deal and heat. They keep calling, and I pete, if it calling they ve already looked at it. I got
you renegotiating the till you fuckin come on anyway. I go home, I sign it flat, california, I remember so well that we can have a cold. I felt crappy was like February lay february, two thousand three and I hang out- I see Brian cowen I see him there and it is like a work session with the russo brothers and mitch and brought in red with each other out in the hall at the old tv building over it at the fox lot and branches misa yearning at this wouldn't remit. As now. If I can wait- I was so jaded as eight not happening. I go in at work. those guys it goes kind of ok, fine. I leave it, I'm sick enough that I dont even again, I still don't care yeah. You have read the script at this point point. Maybe it read the script but like whatever direct, remember liking at or thinking yes, it was. It was good yeah. It is
very good, but it is also had it headed michon written like disclaimer on the front on the cover letter. Saying this is gonna be shot hand, there can be no, it's not gonna, be business as usual, no trailer as it's going to be all guerrilla style. I'm everything fuck, you dude yeah, and what do you think this is art and its commerce, man and I go in the aid, so jaded, already aided tv thirty three year old, aided go in monday morning, and I reignite tony hale was out there to hoop play buster and his wife Martell at the time was a make a bars on us in l, a new twenty a little bit. He and I read this. morning us with jessica walter, whom I done my first pilot with Kevin pollack. She bade the moment arrested. Should I done that together? It is just a go
you're a kind of everything coming together and I go in and I test and- and I got the shell ends at present- some menacing does it. nice work I get if they're looking for anybody out here. It's you by the way and that as well- and I stayed I stayed in california because we used we had it would do the table read that night and I stayed because we hit over the course of the next few weeks. We just made a cast you Yeah go in. I remember going right before I go in Mitch there and he said Is that like you're, to get this now. It is show- and I go don't say that year and it was I was reading against and ah alan ruck yeah. I think I remember ferris bueller is, and he was on spin city, a good actor, a funnier, Alan and Rainn Wilson. Yeah Allen goes I go in first, then I come out and I go again. I'm sick. I go into like blow my nose and wash me
as I feel terrible than Alan comes out in that time, a mate and then make every comes out. Myths, like you got it took to me A hound, barely left in rain is still sitting in the thing, and I've been in his position he's fine now, but I've been in mission so many times when you're, not the guy, and I said to me: I hate that I ran to say I said: hey the coastal they're going let him know or get him out of here before we celebrate. I do. I can't I felt too badly allowed already read. He didn't even read em you at you, you dirty guide, all that we do I read alone, and then we did a group scene with with tony and jessica and jason, and it was like it's so funny. Looking back on that now and mitch in those moments like mitt- and I are- you know- has been one of my best friends of my life and We still work together and yet he you know he produces our show flaked with us and in these two such a part of my life and jason
from that moment on. We were we ve been like brothers, it's so funny looked back at that actual. They are you guys were reinvented television and he was a completely new think people fucking love. It crosses hilarious, everyone. Well yeah. It was weird it was such a funny like when we first started. I knew David a little bit from new york, nia and not well, and and but we started shooting that show and immediately from the first time we did like a big group scene. It felt different and in Mitch's such a brilliant guy and he's a brilliant writer and is probably the funny person, I've ever known. You just knew that we were doing something that was The writing was so good. In a did. That was funny. but at the same time that whole first fall before sir. The air didn't air On november we was reassuring in august we were making it in a vacuum, and- and
odd, and he was new was different. We know is different, but there is no reaction to it. Yeah, so we're just make Apis, yeah, yes and and- and there was there- was something kind of freeing about that. There was no pressure to share, do it one way or the other, and and then when people started reacting in and liking it, and I never even thought about like reviews, because I was so concerned with just trying to get a fucking job for so long right that that was so far down. The but right now we weren't necessarily has invested in the show your working yeah. Excise on. You know at all. And so in and then its resorted to pick up steam became a phenomenon. I guess you definitely at the same time, don't forget had zero rating here, so you know we were constantly
every monday morning, a baby, and I would be like pouring through the ratings and trying to like hey. We went up at a tenth in in euros. Eighteen to nineteen or worse through the fucking, the worst he's a good guy. I talked to him payments the best here and and ici have so many memories of just him sitting in his little shit, trailer with the door open wearing his stupid, Michael, a costume ages of his paper yeah going over the ratings here, australia out yeah out yeah yeah yeah. I got some good distant holding onto a wow. Did it ultimately, yes down the air, we got nominated that first, airing november and then, in december, out of the blue, we got at nominated for a golden globe right and we're like holy shit golden globe. And we get to go out. It was
far removed from having where I was at here, I guess that's not entirely. True. Amy was doing snl, so she was kind of in a high profile thing, but for me it just seemed like that was her deer and the and then, after the first season we got nominated for a bunch of emmys and then we won the the emmy for best best comedy, and that was so gratifying. I remember before the ceremony crossing. If we win yet we're on the same route, we should get up sally, rate with each in their walk out the out and then go the other way out the theater and get in our cars and leave, and I was like tat yes, hilarious, amber Amy, saying to me: don't listen to cross you cannot do that do but yeah I was very validating. It was such a thrill
air of it's great and and then the new, the than the ones you do a couple years ago, one of her well, everyone was excited yeah. There are people here, complaints you. You know that a number of reasons that we that Mitch constructed those shows the way he did yet and some of it had to do with the schedule of getting everybody back yard and but I feel like when you go back in the the the format, was that each character had their own episode. Some have multiple episodes and then everything kind of sort of yeah you could. Follow it every of collapse on itself and the storylines are all intertwined. I feel like when you actually go back and look at it as a whole. It's a pretty masterful, it's very complex yeah. What he did, and I spent some time in in the writers room on that and it was. It was like a like a code,
breaking room in from world war. Two I'm not kidding. It was different colored index cards with pies different colored pieces of string, ah sort of denoting character or cause and effect and stuff going back and forth. He was insanity yeah and it's like such a window into Mitch's brain which is I scrambled eggs wow but yeah, but he pulled it together. He makes the omelet. He really does honestly. So what now, if he produces foie Is that now that you're? That's your show ya you created yes, sort of based on. it. It was not only based on reality right in the sense that that that story is fictitious. But your hip- to being fucked up yeah hip to being fucked up an I'm hip to I decided that I wanted to kind of makes them that was I like the idea initially of a guy.
I have always idea of a big fish in a small point here, and so I remember somebody, I know being in venice and everybody. Stopping among the quantities. Examiner was like hey man. What's up and like it was like a business guy, yeah, fuckin, homeless, dude yeah, and I was like how the fuck you know everybody like what is your deal right and I struggle being kind of funny, and that in venice, is I love it. I have lived there on and off over the years and it's it is a place where people go to reinvent themselves. I truly like you can just go out there and sort of adopt a persona right, and you know we have a character in in the show- Oh we we didn't really get into it, but I you know there's a guy years ago who knew his name was Stefan and then somebody else said we were talking about Stefan they said. Oh, I I went to high school with him. You mean and yeah and we're like holy shit. That's when you're twenty five and you just decide I'm going to call myself. Stefan and everybody else is going to go and note. None of these people know me that around my store right and you can create this identity.
Soil. I like that, and in a lot of ways I wanted to get into the idea of who we are are versus who we really are versus, who we show the world right in that kind of fascinated me. Yet I just on a personal level. You know I. I started it as a sort of an exploration of things I didn't like about other people and number one sort of the dishonesty and lying mia, and I ended up it got very sort of murky and and- and I kind of is also became an exploration. things at it like about myself sure at the same time, be a mid so funny because that process, a viking of those rights It means that you have against others like it. Sometimes it can take a while for you to realize like oh, this isn't like we were talking about before I'm having a conversation with myself, yeah yeah, absolutely yeah, and it was it tough, I I it wasn't until it wasn't until I was deep in the process of my my
honey, partner, march apples and englishmen with crime at him through cross. Yours, Well, he wrote Todd margaret with oh yeah you're on top mark yeah and and so that's how I met chappie and and who's an oxford educated englishman, who had never been to venice before and he and I just pesticides, and when I was in london ease, I get sounds great, would just are writing and outline the next day. came over here and immerse himself, is the greatest partner I could ever be asked for as She and I wrote every episode of the first season and, as we are doing at it, started to get heavier and heavier yeah and it was in its lives. In the middle of that process, I realised what was going on and in others it at the center It is this guy chip, who is this kind of big business, Paul upon whose created this persona for himself has created this cool identity here and at the heart of it. He is a sober guy who's, helping people
I like the idea of a guy who's, he's helping people by selling this this life in this thing and yet he's not necessarily adhering to it himself right, but it still works on other people. So is he a bad person? Oh yeah, doing the right thing by me. That's where you get into here loop right. Yeah. What will you get into when people say? Well, that's pretty simplistic way to look at it, but that life is complicated bright. It is that is, there is no black and white answer will write and also like you know, I think, by that stuff a lot like you- and I know that I can show up for people, but sometimes my personal life among the fuckin depressed angry day. Yeah by does at what does that mean exactly does just like your people over complicated yeah yeah a complicated an end and if the good column outweighs the bad calm, your ear doing, ok, whoever sent, and if you can try to
you own, the shit you ve done and go ok, fuck. I need to try to be better than I guess. That's all you care! I do now what now, where you are now that you're going about to drop the second season? Yes, so we did the first season and then we searched in the sense that came at last march and then we shot the second season we brought more. it is on this year and now diva idee picture and our cause. My experience writing television. I always assume that you know that these people that right these serious you can see the whole thing through four five seas. Your eight seasons. I didn't have that experience there you well, we did you know it's funny. One of One of the criticisms of the first season was it: are these guys here you have these nor mid forties living in venice and you're. Like a self help. Guy kind, yeah, he's This is a big sort of like programme guy right and who, but who, as we
I doubt he kind of uses it a lot to excuse himself of his own behavior in his real life, like anybody uses a spiritual system. Yes, that affords you the ability to be forgiven. Yes, one hundred per cent yeah- yeah, my god, is very forgiving. Uno kidding. You forget your god. Forgive you that's what they fuckin, what a coincidence area and we I, you know, we always had this. I always pictured that there would be a sort of a fall out to what his behaviour and in the first season, and I was never- it was never an endorsement of that kind of character. If we, we got to make a second season. It might have seen that way, but we always knew where we wanted to where we wanted to go and I'm not, there is a version of going beyond that. I'm not shirts, necessarily something. I wanted it's been a very trying it for me and a levels like why! Well, because, just on a purely sort of
political level. You know, writing it and a lot of work in it and show running market. I run it yeah and you know every decision. Every fucking miniscule If we have to make an somehow, you just want to act, yeah some, We just want to show up not like oh yeah. No sorry hang on the cups should be like this. He should be like. Let me see what you got in canada. What's in it, what's the ok? yeah constantly, so there's and also just the subject matter itself. It got. I got really close to the bone last year and I ended up kind of as a result, kind of blurring the line cinema did I do it because I wanted to get closer, is is this man acting, bring it back to strasburg trying to get closer to what was going on yeah or was I did. I write it as an excuse to do that. Yeah, I still don't know Are you you're, challenging yourself in ways you didn't think one hundred sent?
this is not how I, how envisioned mice, what I envisioned doing to myself. It is forty five where's ass, there's not eat, you can't just phone it in no, you cannot he's been through a certain amount of life shit to wear your like disguise. To close to me like him. I revealing too much about myself one hundred percent hundred percent. It got it got really It put me in a nervous space for a while, which is probably good. I shared in the long run via the but yeah. I you know I have been through a lot of shit. Lotta people had been to waver shit that I, as your boy I've been in my own way, been through my own shit, and I am sure that a place now were maybe it's time to lay this one down and let it be, but I'm happy, what we did. We had some great writers this year and I cook it. You know mark and I still wrote- and I directed this year for the first time at which I've never
doesn't make. I do that when you get the opportunity yeah, I've. I've never been one of those people whose supposed can do it. I dunno if I'd be any It will usually like when the the thing that, if you're afforded when you're you know in the second season of your own, shows, you know you've got a dp. That knows what he's doing and- and usually you know you can be guide- is very hard to direct an act because he can keep running back to the playback machine and do another take by. But it's like it's like popping your cherry, you gotta, do it yeah you're in and you know. Luckily I have much happy with me mark, but yeah it was drowning. Let's go because now, like you leave, you know you're in the guild and if you want to direct something, that's not you yeah, you can try, it yeah I've thought about it, but who knows yeah and now your personal life, you, ok, you in the kids are good and great. You get along with aim ear. Yeah yeah, already out of you, have everything out off and everything's good and end you know
and co parenting like it's essential that you know that shit levels off yeah. You know what that shit was. To be honest, such it was always level are good yeah. It's always been about the kids and there s nothing. For me an end for her starts, every day is mean other kids happiness and that's it. You know any that comes to work and everybody I work with in everyday. I do things were they all know that that's first and foremost, an and then everything else is kind of falls in line after that everything else is gravy yeah schedule, I I look at everything as it takes me away from my kids or job every meeting, every everything yeah, and so it better be worth it and the sobriety solid sobriety solid, took me a minute yeah. I am not really. It took me a minute to review how to program
like you know when, when you did go out, you knew where he had to go back to a million percent. I that's the worst part or the best part yeah, but it's always there yeah yeah, it's sort of like you know. I had enough in me to know as you're doing it year. I can't even really enjoy it now, there's no way I can imagine it. I can't imagine, and the best part is you know, like best slash worst part my friends in sobriety were great, who had just be like: ok, man, yeah, ok, I have tried to justify it. No good, now good. Now now I mean I, you know, I did some time, I got it. I got it and their ordinary man will see him will it be right here? We gotta seats it for you and it's funny now. My sort of feeling about it is is much more like what it jackass I was, but you know and you lose, you didn't die. Yes listening I am I consider myself in that
very like I do. I get to write to me that the most frightening thing you know having seventeen years and you see these guys go out after like that long and the like. They know it's not good. No! Well, then the thing I knew again it I knew exactly what where that goes, and I've seen it enough. I've been around enough guys in a bit around the rooms, long enough to know that natural progression? It might be ok, today, yeah years where it goes right, yet good, one guy you're back glad things are working out. I'm looking forward to the new thing thanks man That we will learn. It was nice talking to him and were still here I believe I will play so.
tar, but not think about it too much hold on a second wow.
Transcript generated on 2022-09-03.