« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 792 - Fred Melamed / Andy Kindler

2017-03-08 | 🔗
Fred Melamed is instantly familiar, not only because of his scene-stealing performances in the Coen Brothers' A Serious Man and Maria Bamford's Lady Dynamite, but because he is an indelible New York character. But that familiarity came with a price, as 20 years of successful work actually led to a complete bottoming out in Fred's life. He tells Marc how he pulled out of it. Plus, Andy Kindler stops by to talk about the big change in his life.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
A guy, or I would do this? How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the fuck and ears what the plot nix, what the bucket cracked What is happening I mark marin. This is w tat. This is my podcast were being here. How's. Everyone doing are you ok, take abrek Let's hang out for a little while got a good show. Today I got an interesting guy. I don't know you would know em if you seen em. I bet I think my first real x, your to him was The kohen brothers film, a serious man, he's an actor his name is fred melamed. And dies currently can see him. Ana maria bambridge. you just he's a big presence in
I dont know I always was sort of entreat with him. I thought I would get along with them in he came up also my buddy Andy killer has some things got going on, so I thought I'd have him in here for a short chat. Always always fun You see, Mr Ken, where How are you I'm? Ok, I'm having a nice tee in my mug from glow swag glow? season. One mug they were done in two tube batch there's the team, heel and team face I've got a team he'll glow the show they did for netflix about the girl, Ladys of wrestling be on netflix at the end of june. Hold on pow, I just ship, my pants, just coffee, doc, co up get the deputy F blend. I guess so. I will
and on the backside there that's a classic add many of you have only been listening to this for a while have not heard the the the for business, changing slogan, power, just shit, my pants that was created in the early days of deputy of outside dual throwback loved. In canada loved in toronto and then is the weird thing. Now, that's all, to me the crowds or grey nothing do with them, but the next day, when fly in home ryan singer in myself, I'm on the plane, and they have their young entertainment system and in their classic movie, There was only may be less than a dozen of the classic movie section on the plane. options in one of them. gimme shelter, and what are the fuckin odds that I told you read that book about outlined by JO salvin, I just finished tat,
in montreal in again on a plane from Toronto too, dangerous in that. fuckin movies on their that has seen in a decade and its fresher my head: the menace the darkness, the insane bad ass city, death of the sixties, mythology right and I watched it all a man had quite an impact. I do have to say. I talk to somebody else about this. That I don't think the rolling stones ever sounded better than those couple songs that they did it out my because they had a fact of life. Transcend man. I mean Jesus, I just some things send coincidence, india that sort of weird menace between things you like when something turns into something I'll I've. Analogies did a bit too what we're going. As a country there's just a big shift in the
culture in the town and there there's something resident about the shift. You know from woodstock our demand that their feels it namely familiar very different but metaphorically. I think it stands up. Tomorrow, night new haven I'll, be there if I believe they're still tickets, weft, ca, ST musica tomorrow, friday march, tenth and new connecticut I'll, be on saturday gone up to where I girl comes from the area. Troy savings may music hall, that's march eleventh and then and be cruising up to burma. Ten vermont, the flint centre on sir, They marched twelve we're going right back came back home to l a for a couple of days say hello to the cats monkey la fonda, buster, deaf blackcap, a scaredy cat, the t, the second Touch base with everybody.
Went through my mail, those weird coming back specially from canada, just coming back, getting off the plane and during the traffic speak. king of eugene levy network. I didn't like I got an email now I'd. I didn't. I dont know this movie, I want to take it at face value the email but setting the tone might be. Maybe it's on me but tat. I want to share this for eugene. If he's listening this subject line. Eugene levy going berserk mark love your pod. just listen to your interview with eugene levy, and I wanted to let you know that my friends and I consider going berserk to be one of the great his films of all time. It belongs the same realm of cinematic achievements as citizen kane godfather to
aging ball and almost famous to this day. My friends and I firmly believe that MR levy was robbed of a best supporting act or not by the academy for his role in the film as sol. Deep quietly Nicholson was in terms of endearment, but levy was better. He was like a young marlon brand, our daniel day, Louis, on his best day. Listening to your interview with MR levy, it struck me that he was being incredibly modest about the significance and power this cinematic treasure to the extent you doubt Strong commitment to this film rest assured that our vhf copy of going berserk as protected under lock and key and by a fireproof safe in an hour close location is taken out each year for our annual screening. Please send our regards to MR levy and let him know that we are all a huge vans seriously. All this jersey, boys, grub watching us see tv high school years and genuinely believe that it is the greatest sketched out in the history of television.
This maggie brothers and Bobby bit men remain some of my favorite sketch characters of all time. Keep up the great work. W t ever regards Kevin, I'll get you take that face value, and I believe I guess I have to see the film berserk, because I I've I've would have known about it. I mean I don't surprised if what is being said in that email? True, that I didn't die, you know about it. So I'm going to educate myself watching that movie right so up Andy kenworth. What do we know we know is one the funniest people in the world. We know he's been around a long time. We know he's been on. My television show he's east. You now he's andy I always love seeing Andy here hosting though series coming to this stage, which is in its fourth season as we speak. This is me,
and the love we Andy kin were one of my oldest friends in comedy. Sit down. Andy I mark, and you got a friend in San Francisco. That is frustrated with count shape so is now designing his on coffee it show, is that he's a coffee genius, so he's a known coffee, gm wrecking ball, coffee, haha and but things. You says, goes by pass me, for example, to deep, warlike. He see uses analogy so as you put out you wouldn't cook a stake in a coup shape right and then an economy of me, what I mean I would lose anybody. I don't think that that that you can compare cooking a stake to brewing coffee so too far
do you now known, and I think he is analyses it is this is this is a new you right here. Take it anymore, guff, no mortal April aviator, if your metaphor or simply or syllogism, is now fit, then I must wait. I yes, No time for it, because my brain I'll do the work and it will yield nothing, how do you do it just comes out funny see I thought a stake in account. How would you cook a stake? a member of the comedy group of steak and cone very that was very, very funny calling I loved kong, it's sad that he died so young yet because he ate too much stake. Yeah come on. Am people will listen to this. They will assume that we would predict this bit very. I why I didn't get the script. I was just riffing that's me too, so s end me yeah. Stand me too. Yes, admittedly, to that's. How, though, from Get he blew build the wall, I don't like the mexicans, yes and
yes and we should build a wall, yes and but then it comes to you will o the area. So what are you doing wait. What I had in projects- and I warmly this happened- if you want to talk about your your new anyone like a maniac if we in the eu on their life in the earlier while I'm one of prozac is a big deal is, is big dna I've been now. There are various things right many years ago, but now nothing. Now nothing allotted nicotine link, its heat coffee, which I don't think help they escalate. The coffee escalates itself is the first time for you yeah, seeing seeing a guy yeah data to end in having the pills right that I was not a I've been for, while which I believe is now it so well. That sounds like a, four cocktail so one so one kind of like evens out your personality and in the other one amplifies that, while the
thing is, in my view, adopting my delivering our oil everyone. I do it immediately as soon as you sit down I in order to keep up with you, I have to keep going about the history of the jew. Yes, so what happened so before? Andy was what what what we saw give an example. I was late for this. I was late for this thing to the world will weigh on I terrible yet, but it is terrible to me When I've I've it's, there is no excuse for it, I have a very evil parent in my head. Paris me in in a very, very evil way right and says: you're, no good, so It doesn't have a matter so on your way over here. Did it say like why bother going? No, gotta gay, a little bit better at that, but, like it is like I see your face year. I can imagine you getting mad mia, but its it doesn't have to be just today. The other day could be somebody
ask right, whoever I'm putting in yard on his right. Yet the idea being in my time I used to think I hit somebody in the in the car I it was. This was so long ago that people didn't know about this as much. That's actually a common thing. You know you think you've hit. Some you drive around the block. See here. Then you realize all the time I drove around the block the person could have crawled into the bushes. So then you don't drive around the block. It emerges, worry basil date and waiting yeah. My cousin used to call the police to see if any by he reported so well being for this- was that this was all during my twenty four. You made that up in your head. Did you hear a sound? Did you see a person or you just lying just decided that you had a personal? How does that happened? Did you hear a cook? And you like what that, I think, are ostensibly. Maybe I did hitler conk, but I think it's so irrational like once in I went to yosemite and I was convinced they started a fire up there. So I just kept reading the papers every day
it was eleven weeks. Why were you convinced did you? Did you remember what we did? I may miss it. It's always based on some kind of shred of reality. So there is a clunk sound right and there is a there is a precipitation bark So I'm always looking behind me. Deceive I've hit something also assist us speedy behavior that I didn't realize I had, but it sounds like somewhat morbid fascination. I mean o c d. It's like is the gas on the gas on. Do I need to I got it. I get these rituals. I gotta do tat to make sure I feel all right you the counting, the touching the things in checking the rhetoric. Where's my twitter is a is: is a death hall the I've stopped? We at anything other than your occasional promotional tweets, and I am very proud of you. I can't do it I have to. I have to do it, but I can't see I can't cut out the things it makes me to it. Hurts me too much and I don't. I don't. I don't care anymore, but
the thing. The thing very good philosophy: you're a star you're, almost as stoic. Well, I don't think anyone would say that, but I appreciate it if I'm to you, who is a stoic, why do you think that the face you operate at? I would imagine that richard Lewis is the only person alive that you say is maybe a little anxious, while believe me, I know you for many many years we're both deeply troubled people. So each eyes you we both have that for me, I will have the same economic would see you and thank you have many. You they'll think of you as having oecd or something I don't know, haven't I what I have with dread by and I think it manifests itself that, like like I dont need to feel like. I, I hit somebody in the car to think that everything is gonna go badly, yeah I'm moving about everything going badly goes back to my childhood and then apparently goes back all the way to the cave man days
oh really where you are now well, my therapy going into therapy and he took you back to caveman. Well, you know I imagine started with since the caveman people have been was okay, fight, flight or freeze is the basic thing, fight, fight or freeze? That's what I do all day long that may be. useful when a saber tooth tiger was coming at me. Yeah a lion is eating my foot off his allan sherman's her mouse mavericks, oh well, from what the two thousand year old man you are very oh yes, it is true Old, are you so old? We didn't have calendars back then. That is old. Also, I seem to produce a lot more flap arts following if you had that gold eight thousand years- oh that's all right, so so fight flight or free right, so that doesn't help anymore. So I'm constantly with every situation in my life thinking
am I good, am I bad? Am I good like if I say something good or bad or safe, say a problem? It's like a it's like a panicky near thing: yeah, it's like a panicky thing pretty, but it takes money When I was a kid quite as you do I go on twitter, though I did you saying like I do. The right thing should not have done that, whereas why their ninety nazis yelling at me. Yes, I say something here that maybe outrages that our use, whatever someone objected to it, that all of a sudden I start to go down this rapid hole of checking back every ten minutes. I eventually give up my own view, self to some other. Ah whatever that person is bats, interesting thing yeah, that there, maybe maybe not giving up your own view entirely, but it reaffirms the shitty view. You have yourself well yeah. I say yes, yes, they too, my fair, none of any boombox,
I said that I feel to do. I feel this wake us I'm comfortable and then she said no, its, not comfortable, maybe familiar to you familiar by over a laughable, that's interesting! It's out I'll make a nice living from her. She went on to say, as you seem well adjusted in your cynicism, exhausted, and you should exhaust ok anyway, you appoint No, it's all is not well adjusted, just sort of like I I just don't like I think, I get older and and and west, maybe more cynic or least last desperate. I just don't the point of a lot of shit. We're that's aging! That's the good part aging ii older than you, and I will tell you that that is one thing that does get better here. Is these em? If you have any health in you at all near if the ambitious thing I had in my twenty easier. That's not That would not only be area in albania. I still get triggered, I'll meet you in a second. So why? What ye
things going on he, but let's side! Last night, get excited about them because I mean they know strong, get excited about our guy. My hulu me, I'm sure we'll come into the stage without about it's a show where I introduce comics young comics young p who are just starting out like we were one boy near when I was young can meet. Am I did the young committees or actual an aged thirty eight year, member YAP, so I bring them up and I think setting a bad table for them, but nevertheless they seemed seemed to hear your hosting a stand up showcase shall I just stand up shut, keisha. What was that mean showcase sure? There are several stand, ups that do about the same amount, but they're not showcasing for another shell. No, no! No! You know, like showcase format like halo, yes, yeah, like the like the the classic sort of like Andy king, where host the show where era where comics are on right? That's the way should sort out describe it here, let me help you
I hope to show I bring up. Comics are this is very complex, but let me see if I can get my get your head around here. I the comics name, they come up and they do there and they in roaming. They come to this data exchange and you leave this date. That's the thing I should mention that do not stay. I understand right way and then, when he's done, guess what happens? You come back up now when you host? Do you notice that people never like it? When you come back for me, they always seem disappointed when I come back. They see me that second time- or that was that's all it's a thing like hey, I'm back and I'm here to cleanse the palate a little bit joke that won't work and bring up the next guy and and of course, in my mind I if I were shooting the audience my attention we draft, but that's not what I want from my people in the audience I dont think their attention drifts, theirs though, I can join, you know that may be the last joke, the guy that was just on, and then you go that guy. What's the who show called it, communist asia. Have another thing this is mark. yah methinks I have out. I have one pupil, I went out one. No, I be
there's one dv I've released the first stage of the industry from now in ninety? Six, with all future for the nineties now they're back and they are even more hard to describe and that's it so from calmly dynamics and that's a download. it'll download, like I m comedy dynamics the your first stated night. If you really sick in montreal, we're, I said things like r j levels in the guinness book of records, foregoing the longest period time without having an authentic moment by can go as there is a part a buyer figure around there. The delta now was. I was there and I think my First one was ninety five. I was therefore comedy central interviewing people. My first speech was ninety Ok, I think I think goes. There are ninety five and then part of the of the hack thing I didn't we may I hack people demonstrate hack, now styles of calmly. I don't like was really a you're really on my right, our until maybe like I know I went back up there and I remember seeing a stated. The industry at the desk.
Because it was a small room- is lower ceiling whose kind how kind of tight you knows looks like you, you're in the middle of the room it felt like Well, you saw s day is truly, and you also so was. I felt was my worst speech, which was at the new hotel a few years we're responsible for that because I was the guy was talking me up before I was in your dressing room. I know, but isn't that so so the the very first one from ninety nine six is available as a visual thing, even though it was just a it's just a cd audio, because it's an ugly room and not attract interesting, so that so that's how And yet you have another thing. I think that's two things, that I get someone like pop tv or something now mean to the geometric omitted his day, Jia. That's the one may I running: that's our hullo! That's all! go and unless you don't another year of marin, people recognize you show the end as always,
If people recognize me, they excuse themselves before I'm ready to go, because I really can't I can't talk any more about but which For so did you say I can add the have to catch up. Now, I am people like to show they alone and in when it goes on. Netflix everybody gets to see it hausa susan, is there a good I'm getting married now, fifteen? This is why robbie we're happy, I'm very happy, I'm I'm not! The point I am happy to be a just happy are due. You goin on the road. A lot go on the road anymore. And I used to go, but it's different every year and why we always sound like I'm, trying to justify a career that ended in many many years now. It's good comfortable. I enjoy people, and I like the I like the the the the atmosphere yeah and I have a they the they and I have a writer where they they provide me with sodas of the kind,
in the dressing room. Yes, you do you d murmured crack me up because he got something from what rock and roll writers and when we were untoward together, he'd have like three towels every rob was like a mr coffee here, yeah Just don't see I I don't see you dreaming that MR coffee, I don't I guy I just have all. I want. I m all that in my rider is a homeless and vegetables to dip in and die pepsi and now MIKE I'm thinking about getting rid of the dye patsy, you are you. The europe session with food is unbelievable to me that you love it so much, and yet you concerned about it so much my question I been you, know, been trying to do we therefore have you had the testing, they told you that which one it shows you how much? Yes, yes, yes, and when we re not great, might bring up things that could actually
you look good to me. You feel good to know. I went over with the guy, I mean it's like I'm higher than I should be than most people, my age, but it's not disastrous. You know what I mean: how's, your blood pressure, blood pressure's great, that's good! a little bit of plaque and I went to a cardiologist after I went to the cedar Sinai guy and you know he showed me what my artery probably looks like wow alike, given the percentages and he said, they ultrasound at my heart, nay, ultra sounded my mike carotid artery everything and he says everything functioning good. This black is what it is, what europeans didn't get the cholesterol down a little bit, there's a good chance, you know no more will come and you won't have a heart attack yeah. But you don't aware The good things is, don't worry best stuff. Trot. You know it's like. I know she get off the nicotine lozenges. I know but like now you know with the with everything being so stable politically in other parts of the sort of like wildfire. Going to die. I want to be responsible for the last sure. That's true, but you know
also the you stopped drinking stuff, very young and right- and I started smoking many years ago, because I did nicotine can't be good and now I'm not been barely eating any cholesterol and amount of staten, and so but oh the thing I can't stand backstage near his crudity. That's my crudity bet new, but that's the vegetables yet because why would you ever eat what broccoli anyway night. I don't mind it like I'd rather than candy, or you know like a true right I just I need something like I'm generally gonna eat off site right, so I I need to eat? Something compulsively before or after I go on and minds will be good for me, That makes us. But now I see that you ask me about me on the road I feel like. I have everything control, but I'll I'll. When I heard your schedules, like, oh my god, carnegie hall, this in the end had they go. Carnegie hall, we go there with too much food their debt.
Food situation was a disaster. The show was beautiful and quickly forgotten by everybody Will you hire backstage parfait will now This was the your comedy festival and you I didn't. Two hours at carnegie hall I sold it out. It was a very moving moment. A lot of my fans. Were there me I'm four days later, the election happened, songs I got it. I got in under the wire for me it was an amazing. Spirits were backstage, the festival provided an insane amount of food, and then I had prepared a little bit of an after party were carnegie dowie stuff from across the street, but because I so long, the after party Carnegie was not prepared for it now to be out by midnight. I had a bike forty people there with all this me and we were rushed and there were no plates and I didn't prepare properly. And I feel, like a lot of meat went to waste now. Do you still think about that? Because that's o c d, if you're still thinking about it now
at dead like. I feel that maybe that corn beating get eaten in there was a light and life in general is what my favorite things is: Lenny Buzek, aren't you the outer bestia cause. He taught. Here's a sound backstage a best answer the fact that they waited hours for him because his plane rosy and I the very angry at varying. But I don't like the revisionist lenny bride on don't either are you talk to what's his name nestor off he's not guilty of it. What am I a disease that he? Why love him? But he says he has other he's funny labors yet, but I can it's a misnomer. I was talking to what's his name cinnamon job jason right yeah, who wrote an article on it and I just feel like, and I told him I said you You're gonna look at all of it If you look at the early stuff, when he was doing jokes right as great jokes, there is great bits when he became more preoccupied with making a point, it became a little layered worried about
I think maybe less punchy, but equally as funny and compelling justice compels you're right. But I do think that people forget that he had great jokes. You know oil all journalists, I totally won't play a game. I guess games, we're going to fill out the policy, Guy poses mother on the plane, with a bow yea by logging. Yeah fill out the policy. Well, the other thing like ill could I'm very turned off to the whole new atheist movement. When you, would lay booth was talking about here- is actually exploring the corporate decision. We have religion. He had interesting observations about everything. What is it? with things like. If you wish into the berkeley concert, you gotta, listen right. Again, you got it. You gotta go back because he can back around you know, he's got operating on three or four different. You have trajectory he's all once a lotta you like it's it's it's taxing in a lot of times it so peppered with references to current. Personalities of the time and some yiddish that yet
easy to get lost. I went and that's what makes me relate like, I feel, very a kinship with him. I feel like he had that kind of cat cats activity at a much bigger, goodnight image year. Any added value at issue No, I like, I think, I'd I'd I'd in agreeing with you here that the revisionist perception of him is not being funny is false. If you listen to like the first three or four records right, you got a point context. That's true and, like you have a point of saying, wasn't funny the evil. Why do that? Well? I do. I would people I'd, maybe they read Skelton. I think that at some Could we not at all I mean the same thing. We should all be hake. We should have judge and jury about these classic. Hitherto, Oedipus had decided once or are we use a clown? Well, that's the thing to I'm so well aware of what I am not aware of, and I never I should help Ebola. The show shows ever wants to show shows I don't know of that. I read very little nickels and may, and why see that, like a bit, I only
of anybody can judge anything when you, you know you don't know anything. I never someone terminus of early kovacs. We got you can all that stuff. If you why busy, but you read though but my view is so now I know I'm like you, I mean I, you know I I I'm like a little yo consumed with the news now and I do read. I just read a great book on ultimate, oh wow. You you're you're interested in that yeah yeah analogy. I give it to you, it's not like it's a great book, so it's do that. Let's finish! Ok, you may like worthy reading the book he I like it, I'm gonna go, get the book they are the hoffman bet, you're gonna start reading the end. The bit will be we own end. We don't end. No, I very bad with this one of the things I admire about you besides that you're handsomer than me, always bothers now. I think you agree great, I'm good! Looking don't keep myself! I'm surprised, you! Seventy! Why jokes always get me I can't closer thing. Do you? I noticed bomb you go.
Thanks a lot peewee herman, where you going now, I'm going the title tom articles, but right now here I will say hi to inform me. Our other we're gonna, Claudia, I loved. We figured out a way to get out now, the lovely and medicated Andy kin were I love. Andy fred, Moua, mad fred, Moua, mad great actor, gray, presence, interesting I I am really happy. I got to talk to and fro in the time we didn't do a ton of actors here now, like I do, I talked to actors, I think, will be interesting. People and fred is that most recently you can. You can see a memory, a ban for show lady dynamite season, one streaming on netflix and season. Two will be later this year, you can also, I would go, go
a serious man, the calm brothers movies, it's one in my favor once- and he was just m spectacular that this is me and fred Melanie I like it when people come over and talk, but socializing migrating here, you you know I dont do I. Ninety eight percent of my friendships happen through show business right, I'm I'm and which is a little that's. It makes it a little bit hard because you, if the the the the museum of people in showbiz has come somewhat wearing after awhile. I have a few friends that I went to college with did other thing yet Nowadays, yeah low dislike to avenue, there's through kids, Ray schools and all that how dear kids, I have twin way
we have twin was that a fourteen, oh okay, and I'm sixty so I'm old. So if I go to school, I don't want to be called grandpa and that's usually what happens really now I mean it seems like. I know a lot of guys that had kids I rammed at sixty had one we have a slightly warped perception of living in our here about the normalcy about right. But as we do, about several things. Other the whole dog madness is also trying was. Do somebody about that the other day it occurs to me and I love animals I enjoy and yeah, but I think that the real- that we have this religion of animals. Ass angeles and the west coast in general is because so many we'll have this inborn need to take care of something which, as human beings, of course, we know that derives shut their too selfish or there too,
self obsessed, hey. I showed you know there too, and I can't stand the idea of not being led unconditionally were kids in my fuckin blame them like they're like they blame, I don't really get about what about a three year window to be loved unconditionally by getting the effects and right, and then they start in this, and I hate you aware my maybe just question or maybe worse right right, but where the door to become their own person precisely a dog, never sort of like I'm done with this shit. Now he starts off autonomous. That's why I have cats you're, never quite sure whether they like you or they're, going to be there. The next day you have to be the right kind of some people would find that level of you know indifference, painful, I know, but I grew up it's weird. I grew up with a lot of dogs and I understand the unconditional thing, but I resented it. I I you know I don't trust to have innately so so with cats.
the struggle was fine with me and the independence is VI with me and the maintenance is fine with me. You know with dogs I weave in with dogs. I will get to a point where it's sort of like. Why do you like me this much, and I don't understand that In our view, in our three minutes of talking together, we ve done upon one of the great themes that obsesses manner Oh really! Yes, because I'm working on a tv which I'm writing. Oh grand theme is- and it's obsessed me long before I was working on this tv show as some people innately feel lovable right and some people like the central character in this thing, that I'm writing and also to be frank, like me, yeah feel it has to be earned. They feel they have to earn it. that you have to earn the le yeah. Well, it's it's interesting cause. I'm a person that over time with your little that are made, but I have found that I did. I defy people to love me, which I think it is
different than earning it sort of like some weird test, but I I don't know when you when you say if I do mean that you do things that push in yes, yes and then sort of in IRAN. I thought about this. We are this long time but you are right there breaking point where they had it like a fine fuck, and I'm like well all the way way way way or if I push it past, a point to where you know they're upset, and I while the playing field with misery then connect around there that there's this defensiveness to its. I I don't know, I don't know that burning. Nothing has to do with how you were brought up. You know, and I had a long and talk about myself. I guess there's that we had the selfishness of one's parents, you know and how much self parenting one is forced into doing when they don't even know it is really determine what you're talking about. So when you say earned, do you not feel like you deserve it? That
tough question that I dont know exactly where the entity, but I do think I'm inclined to feel- and I mean it to some we have been resolved in me and my adult life, but there is still plenty of she had going on. It's you know under their that's not so great. I thought I don't think there goes away for it. I think you make peace with and I think it goes right. You find ways ways temperate year exact. If you lie, if you're lucky alot of people are fucked for life, that's it it's not so much that I I doubt that I'm an irredeemable piece of shit man, but it's more like well, you're, just their media? But if you real love, if you want the real too pretty lavished with that feeling that your needed your necessary you have to earn it you have to do something that make of I don't mean in general, I mean this. Is me yeah and a lot of other you have to earn yeah. I have to earn and hard on yourself well
not hard in all respects yeah, but I mean I'm inclined to think that in my natural lazy state, I'm not so lovable, I'm I'm I'm I'm my whole, I think my whole is my whole ideas. I have to be overcome my face in this way. I do wish looking accountant, nessa mice, whatever other things about myself, that I find that might be distasteful in my mind, it's all about overcoming that's right, right right to blur lovable. Yet and now and that's not a great way to start out the day. You know, believe me- I know now I got I I've got a cynical you ever family and in an chosen I you know when you talk about not having children. For me, it was really like yeah, I'm too anxious. I'm too worried I'm too nervous too panicky. I am self absorbed by the knesset. I think it's my responsibility to bring kids in the world and I overcome myself self, but I am very panicky person, and so are my parents injustice, the sheer terror of having a key.
even sweeping in the next room. You now as an infant to me, I think about him. I always what's going to happen to us, to make it more data, Ok, just that for life. I can't handle it. You know I'm not so different, I'm not so different from you, but that, but I people have been feeling those things from the time that we world amoebas and really yeah. I don't think that's any new- and I think that came with the holocaust or anything I think. That's it. That's that those way way way back, and I I can remember saying I had a psychiatrist when I was in thirty yeah remember, thanked him very specifically Why is any woman in her right mind? Can ever gonna wanna get hooked up for seriousness? Yet with somebody like me, a big broken hearted baby.
I mean yes, I'm I'm. Ok, I have certain things to reckon meant. I was trying to figure out what it was. I felt so connected with you about without knowing you like. As I see you on screen, and my guy know that guy I love brokenhearted thing just like me pretty soon we less angry he's like a nice counterpart to that's because it has to be earned. It has. Earned mark. If I start showing that shit, how angry? I really am, then there really gonna say what the fuck do. We need youthful welcome to my life, so I had to be I in my mind, I had to be extra nice or extra swede or extra solve everybody's problems, or something or yet, but I but remember saying this to the two to this very good psychiatrist. I had many years ago and he said to me: you know he was an english here. You'd be supplies. Some women would find somebody like you quite attractive and I english or german, it. What he's been jerk? He was german, but grew up in the blitz. He was sent to england
turkey, is a tricky accent. Yeah, I didn't do it. right now you did it, so he is so he was he. He grew up in england. He said you know, you might be surprised might be you might find a woman or to whom, who might actually find somebody like you worthy without you having to do all this, all these magic tricks, the attract them right. So to speak, the body or, as I have found that I think we're different at you. You might be part of their development, exactly s, place where they hang out for a while and then move on exactly what good news is that an educator and emotional educate. Well, let's face it. You know you have to go through a lot of relationships before you or maybe not maybe, but I had to go through a lot of girlfriend year to get to the point where I was ready mia to have a good one me out, I mean shore and if
the truth is if the if a good one is not in your script, if you don't think that you're deserving or you don't tell me, you might think you're so on appealing for reason that you would even consider somebody that my cross you're transom, yet because she, four out of what you imagine would go for you sure but I married one like that- and I was right where you brought it to do more in this motion, is gripped yang. Agony of is that the one but the good news is, if you hit one good, why all the bad ones it doesn't matter anymore. It becomes part of your development yeah, you know, and you don't have it I mean. I think the best thing you can arrive on is that as few regrets in terms of yeah how you look at your life as possible. If you can integrate, into Ike, while you that was then you know, That's who I was and that's that not like our guide, the fact tat up. Will you know the truth is
I work I and I will not say anything very stage or new, but I regret much more things that I didn't do things that I was too for afraid to trial. or to rise up in my room. I regret that more than any mistakes that I made and in fact most the pain in my life here has been caused not by pursuing the things that my heart desperately wanted near, but by getting what I could get right right, but by getting the things that I Then I knew I could get because the things I really want it. I thought. Oh, I ll never get that. I'm too messed up onto Oh yeah yeah night, I've I've had that so like well, let's, let's, let's go back, we weren't you grow up a group in york, like that figure, that guy cause. I see you around and dumb. You know you're in everything. Now you seem to be an ever present character. Actor. Yes, a big, a big stick,
I got my picture in on the wall of the carnegie delhi rent above the words choking victim. Everyone knows who I am I god now that now the carnegie daily is gone, but like like for me like when I saw you and I think the first time you seem very from you're to me was when I saw serious man, I loved you know and, as you know, an american middle class jew person you, I didn't. It was timeless to me and the character What does it say? We desirableness, I able men was I saw a sweet monster just it's this horrible selfish person. That was very charming. and I thought to myself, you know I got this, which one of my parents, friends, is this guy? but there is a familiarity that was the sort of established between mean you that you didn't know about. So I I was always curious as to too you know where you came from so you you grew up as a kid in new york city. I grew up in
the city. My parents were both also born and bred in new york. My dad was in the business. My dad was a television producer and he produced some early comedy shows before the whole influx to california. He produced an old show, probably too young to remember the shook car. Fifty four I yet he was the producer on that and some others. those were. The chef sergeant bill sergeant, belka tumor, with real use, Do you feel silver bio? You may people pupils. That to me now they do a yeah. I mean that I not that I should do a biopic, but that I resemble Phil silvers little oakville service was rather slim, but I think, but another reason other ways. I look like phil silvers, what a challenging character that would be well phil silvers in real life. I don't want to. I I not supposed to say things unflattering crazy gambler of the dried very very serious gambler answer had some other things about him, because it doesn't make him a bed subject for a movie. Clearly opposite right, but there were lots of things about his life and about his
after that made him a very, very tough customer, yeah, oh yeah, to do it. the authorities alone. It was he party or childhood. You know that was before, but when I was growing up at my father was doing car fifty four and there was a guy called nat hiking. Who was a kind of let it yet, his name before he was like a big deal. Is a writer right yeah. He a writer, sort of shut this before we used the term, show runner, but that's what he Sure I think I talked to norman lear about him. May yeah yeah, yeah, norman lear and guise of that ilk him. He would like a pioneer in the average comedy near so my dad was kind of like right hand, man heightens yeah and your dad was a producer yeah yeah, and then they had and then my father had an idea to do is show with Andy griffith yeah we're any griffith would play the local fire chief, not police, chief, the rifle fire chief of this little southern town yeah. He brought the idea that I can well not said. Well, that's interesting idea, but I I want to use it and then Two years later, the show came out with where he was
ending up in a wheelchair up. So they had a big falling out over that there was a kind of a lawsuit in this, and you got your dad was the did the bitter guy behind the guy, precisely the opposite. plenty of those in show business. Proceeding at that fucker stole my shit guy right at, but my father or- and I love my father dearly, but my father never quite understood certain things bout show business though he was in it all his life like he was a very charming sweet. funny guy but he didn't really understand working hard as a principle. He kind of thought it was all about charm and getting people to like you and stuff like air, which does kind of you no help but when the time when the red light is on, you have to have the goods rice be sure yeah, and he wasn't he like. I remember he would toss off scripts and he'd say what do you think of this and be sitting at that I read it for a couple of hours a day and that'll, be it but people that when they write stuff, it's I mean I think maybe average, we will not realise how these little stupid
arms how they are low. My out over, oh, my god, is a room full of twelve people right for days and days, arguing about everything and went and straw in moscow and that they take it seriously, get striving to make it clear in Austria and they don't realize, are ruining. It could go either way here s your eggs, clearer and that's a very interested by the way, not to not to divert totally document. But I'm on the show, with maria nail, your friend, your evander uranium, your beloved and mine, yes, flickering light of my great, and that was such an interesting experience be cough among other reasons, but primarily because here's a show, that's kind of goon different. I mean it. But he says there, but it rejects any kind of way out. Show yes trying to put trying to keep marie as whole vibe in the show at the centre of the show right now, if you ve ever a network television, you get a note on every fuckin. Tablecloth color gets
here? I think it's not every single thing. In order for people on television to keep their jobs shirt, everybody has to have their prematurely, everything by all the executives after she had chinamen every time they don't get blamed for anything or right, if there's a little bit of glory they want it reflected on. I did the tablecloth except I argued that, should it be peace that we use in it and now it's way of seeing right yet so there the model that every but not everybody, but I and that of many other people are used to wear somebody hasn't, dear and it has to go through nine thousand hands and, of course, in that process it gets watered down. It gets messed up, it's different. You forget the original idea and the energy that might have been there at the beginning, precisely yeah. This was so front because this shows on netflix gear and this and that the streamers of extremist outfits, Come from the network television model, they come from the silicon valley model, where the way that they do it.
They find a maverick. They find a steve jobs. They find somebody like that. In this case it was much hurwitz, you're and PAM who run our show and they let him run for good or ill. You act We do wind up with something very close to the idea. They got the money. They got the time, they're, not behold into advertisers the you know there were up to you're too. A guy on the networks really had a an executive structure to accommodate talent So you know you're there really, depending on these people that have experience and are willing to take chances. Do it. I just didn't with the Genji common and liz way in parliament for the show runners by you and they had they had money behind him. They had a vision and yonder ex around, but the usually sort of like good good, yet exactly there, but there's no compulsion to like put their palmprint on everything. So how is that like? How to that effect?
in this characters, a little different for you and getting back to what you grew up in. You know your play an inherently show business character that comes from a tradition of depictions of agents, your agent or manager manage manager, but like that is such you know in our world those characters of have been done before this was like a different vibe for you right. It was because very often I'm cast playing macchiavelli in kind of small. HU, the bad guys or not manette smooth, but they ingratiate themselves like he's it like able yeah I'm in soluble man like your father, will know. My dad was not like that, not a bad guy but he's charming guy yeah. My my dad was my dad was a little bit more like bruce, my dad had his nose, pressed up against the glass of show business success, his whole life- and he could smell but it could never quite get to the pastry marriage. You did you meet the real bruce. Oh, yes, I'm
as with the real bruce guy. He is a very good guy, but I'll take a little funny thing about bruce. Just between you and me and therefore thousand alien listeners. We have bruce. I knew only because a maria you represents andy kindled To and a kindler has quite a few reality big around a long time he's a good guy, but he came if a music world, he was a drummer yeah, on long island and had dreams of rock start, and that was his thing. Any still plays in these into music and all that, but originally is management. Company was poor, rock stars right venture walk the aid going to company. Later and he has always been excited to be a star him although he is now a manager yeah so this idea was first presented to him that he would be made, character in this show? You know the second led in the show he was super excited here, as one would be here and we give became facebook. Friends was, let's have one should and the little by little as the script started come,
and it began. Seeing that bruce of the television show was thing of mauritania is his enthusiast. Slightly way, not entirely gray, not entirely. You know there was a clear, a clear change, but yet, but the real real life bruce is is in fact a really good guy and and like bruce in this So he and Maria have this deeps love for each other. This non this non erotic, at least from a real point of view. Yeah not. I think I think, from votes up votes of non erotic, love for each other and they they get mad at each other, but they will never ever abandon one another yeah. They have this kind of deep and I think that's true in the real situation yeah I too, and so that was so. That reason was fun, especially for me to play this kind of sort of bump lange character is because a lot of the time, the characters that I play are so slick yeah they get over.
And here's a guy who desperately wants to get her interest, can't quite do it and when his character, when his clients, not me, but others are kind of big enough to get on I don't know letterman or what it would we re more letterman, but what you know when that, when they make over that hamper I'm when Andy killers amendment that, then then they will often find somebody a little bit flasher. The our management why now, but it's funny vanegas, both Andy Maria stay with him a long time, and I them around for years, but he's definitely a guy who's not select and has seen a lot and is at the level you know as as hammered it out for a long time and has always done okay and now he's doing better and it's a it's sort of a nice thing to see that happen in show business where a guy kind of runs his own shop and kind of plugs along with a committed clients, and then you know, makes a little a little noise. You know yeah. It is very nice to see, but I think a he's the exception and be weird
I had to see it because we know that it's so unlikely with a horrible business. It's I mean, look it's it's it's it's the one I was tell people is when, when friends say: oh, my daughter wants to be an actress. What I say is the truth. Is the wonderful parts about. It are more wonderful than you can imagine, and the shitty parts about it are really really awful sure. I mean she too easy. Did you like waiting around? Does she know how to occupy a lot of sitting down time? I will small spaces. is a door out, but you might not want to go out, and that is if you make it but there's this idea. You know this idea of like I want to be. An actress is like yeah. I want to be a ballerina. I want to be a astronaut, you know it's like what I and to think is like it's, it's a weird childish pursued that if your fortunate enough to find success becomes a fairly did.
Our job really, I mean, there's a lot awaiting involved, but, like you were saying before about your father, there's that you got it gotta be able to do the job. That's right you have to I mean it takes. It takes a number of things in besides talent. Talent, of course, is the paramount thing, but it also takes a significant degree of luck and it takes a certain kind of personality. I mean the the built in paradoxes. In order to be good, you have to be confident well how hell to be confident if you don't have an experience or if most of your experiences acting and stuff in church basements, where you can't breathe, cause, there's so much dust, and nobody comes right, so had to be content. Well, you have to be. You have to go through the manufacture, your own, from which insecure people that they either do that really well or they they fall into themselves as two ways. I can go right and you and also be the type that does it that overdoes it yeah. You know and an end show business has. It has well deserved, lousy reputation, because the very
it's movie I ever in was about thirty five years ago. It was a movie storing dudley call, love sick I kind of remember why people find it on on on netflix like that, but it was a long time ago that nothing more to it. But for me I had a really small part in it, but reception for big deal for me. Yes, because our guinness was in it, sir. Sir out yeah right once and he and he was like a big hero of mine. So I got up the nerve to ask him since I was in on the money with him here. Sir Alec, you know Would you mind just do you have any sort of words of advice regarding show business for young guy, just starting out a thought for his, and he said yes, I can do a good, elegant edit them. I had got this regarding show businesses. don't get any on you,
well, that's deep, there's guy who made it in show business. You know telling it like it is. Well I mean so, but you knew like I mean how old were you when you realize that your your father had gotten a little bitter? Well, he got sort of he keeps it when I was young and high school. He went down the ladder. So to speak, you start out and television yeah. Then he went to commercial and commercial advertising with still. This is still the madman era. When stilled smart, young people are getting to advertiser and then ultimately he wondered wrapping for directors and then eventually he always the dream of being a writer like a novelist here, a couple here's your he had a lot of dreams for couple years we were living in new york city and I was going to a tony private school and we had a big apartment and all that and he wasn't working yeah and I didn't
it wasn't what your mother did at the time she wasn't working, but she, my mother, started out as a kind of actress, wannabe and wound up being a rep for waterford crystal selling. You know fancy crusher from from from ireland for weddings and what exactly yeah, but in those days she didn't work yeah and in those is relatively few housewives did were right at the sixties. Sure say you dad you gonna be apartment, he's not working right, typing, yeas typing. Let it go it's a tie on and goes off somewhere everyday, but but I didn't realize that is not going to work. So when I get to at the end of tenth grade here, he says- and I have a sister who's six years younger- he says how would you feel about moving to florida and I said you're kidding right and he said no, no, I'm not kidding and it turned out that he hadn't been working for a couple of years. A family was now broke right and didn't have the money to pay for all these things. If my uncle had a real estate project going in florida, yeah in in in broward county
florida ass for my mom lives, a really hollywood hollywood is where I went to school hollywood florida and now you ve heard I third in this very chair, the chair that I am now sitting in Paul Thomas Anderson referred a studio city where I now live as this cultural wasteland, this cultural sink hole. If you ever been to hollywood florida studios, looks like fuckin, paris, I'm telling you. I know I by its clarity as an entity as a an idea, and, as a reality, is very hard to wrap your brain around in the casino came in an indian casino, the hard rock cacena that didn't do much to raise. Now is, but it's weird about
beach in hollywood, I've kind of grown to like it, because it's quiet there's a little bit of a boardwalk situation, it's usually french and german johnson street beach. Is it with big hang out there you'd see all the canadian the the quebec was canadians yeah with the little banana holder, things in the in the middle of the, but no one else goes there: it's not a scene. You can actually go and have a day at the beach without it being a a chaotic and impressive, no you're, exactly right, but in nineteen seventy two I can manage when I moved to hollywood. Far too my family, I move too far. I thought and mars here and I had gone from riverdale country school, which is kind of a fancy prep school in new york to a huge public school in. I would far too, which was on the border between a farm dust, direct and we're all the jews and italians move interesting man, strange mix plus this was the beginning of forced bussing. This was nineteen, seventy two yet so a lot of african american kids from day
here, which is that the neighbourhood that in that right, asked me a right. There were busted, so was tremendous like tension, tension over time and fights, and the in the hallways, yet to me, I'd couldn't make any sense of it at all, while so We can have thrown in thailand total america right precisely. I went from new york, which is, after all, more like homesick europaea to suddenly fuckin a a mall. You know yet cinnabar. U s! Think ashley's, as with the recent attack on america or something I don't know what they had most as well, but it was like it will. You know you have the rascal house, Joe stone cry of helstone cried the rascal house which closed a few years ago there was a place sweden hausa buffeted place. I had it at an uncle who was a rebel fees, rascal hath, right wing, no one for separate. Now it is yet this was weedin how right and he my uncle would take me and my cousins, there need say: don't fell upon the sage brush
Don't need the salad! You go right for the meat expensive it so you and wasted five. Ninety five on each but it lacks. In short it interesting, I mean do you know I think we are driving into miami at that. Time must have been a different thing in early serbia it. What there was I mean though it was. It wasn't all bad. I gotta eyeless there was a great jazz guide, Jacko pistorius, who I how he died well he's from down the amount to be friendly with him than the others, so that guy I was so. I was an abandoned this our a as a great soprano sacks player, and I and some interesting ones I guitar guitar a little bit of drums and I stand hanging out with Jaco pre why the report or yes- but this is one only because of mutual friends. I had this friend duffy jackson, who's, a famous show drummer yeah, and he introduced me to jack. So it was. I was a kid, but it was cool. I get to hang out with this real soon the eu is very intense guy. Did you see that I commend this year on year. He was, I mean there were signs that he was.
abnormal. I would say he out, but I didn't realize the extent of around think anybody did me. I was you know he was a gene is avant an end, but he would get in. It's with people in here. You know, and he was, but he was funny because he was very sweet most of the time yeah, but he would then be at you know turn How do you spend time with a jazz guys down? That was a really cool thing, but in set essentially the two years that I spent are they were very. I didn't know what the hell is going on and then my family remained there, and I came up north back up north to go to college here. What hampshire college hippy college organ? No Hampshire is in massachusetts. Amorous massachusetts, amorous right, Hampshire, I'm thinking of red, so After the other hippy guy right, driving. They there. It is. Are you driving in the past mouth holyoke or whatever, on that one wrote in dampers and it's on the left with the weed smell you know you if you can
during baskets and freudians psychology right, guiche dolphin beating in whatever you build your own thing right presided. There was some some kids supposedly who, who spent four years building this pitiful handmade rocking chair he made all of himself and then he presented and they what the hell is this like, he had never bothered to read. you're an as yet so it so Ladakh had spent six seven years there. You know what you do. I I had a friend from high school that wrote his own play here, and so he beat us because we refer, He asked me to be in his plays, so I was in his hand, Hampshire, yeah right and then, when he started asking me to be in his place. Other people asked me to be in their place, so I got to be the who plays, and in those days you could almost do whatever you want it to. emission requirements were very limited, so didn't have to do a lot of other things chosen play after play. After play, distribution way me you didn't have like you didn't, have take all yet to take measures.
This is our right. There was for what they called exams, which, like project area in each of the schools. To fulfill that you could then do whatever you wanted rights. You could essentially spam all your time doing one thing yet nothing if you wanted to be sure, but so I spent a lot my time all my time essentially being in place and because it was part of this five there, this five college consortium, this five causes that we're all together in the same valley. So you could go from school to school and there was tons of interesting things to do plus tons of girls let's face it at that point. That's a huge motive. Writer, umass, amorous, amorous coward run it not holyoke in Hampshire. Those are the five year so, I would go to other schools also and be in place and I got to meet some really really interesting people. I joined a red after at the end of that time, I went to college. I met these two women who had a company called shakespeare in company, which was a company that had classics but
with people that spoke english from all over the world from england, from africa from canada. I join that company and then, ultimately, right after that, I went to yell drama school and got out of your drama school and eighty went from there seventy eight eighty one gonna you got into yale. I did that's, you must stay. in no training before that real. Well, you know the kind of college training typical college training, but not you know not nothing. Nothing unusual who is your crew at yale, the time during the I am that I was there a lot of very big famous actors in my particular year yeah that is getting on, and eighty one didn't produce too many big stars a day. Alan greer was in my class yeah reggie, kathy out enough. You know him is another african american active, very good actor me where the three, I guess biggest people director, vs malignant,
I'm sort of Roy Liechtenstein, Elias burg, whose a director, but in the class below us, you had quite a star study, clap john turtle. Frances mc dormant. What were they? those two years, Charles Dutton hock, dutton air, Angela bass, it alot of real and each class, only about twelve kids, so you there at the same time. Yet for a year she saw Francis and awoke we were friends, we're good friends here. So you go to yale and was stage your focus. That's there was no. I know they are but like in your mind as an actor. By that time by that time. Yes, but you safe, you know there was no other
training for anything else. There was no training for movies or any of that the rugby did. A lot of dancing and swordplay is alexander technique may shock you, but I never considered dance as a profession right. Well, that's good, I probably would have might, but you can do we have had. If you have to you, got some cha god. I never did a musical yeah, but I mean you know even the elephant, condense yeah, but yeah. I know I did to take three years of it that he had no doubt about the hurt, but yet but the eye you know- the training was- was significant, but mostly training had to do with the fact that you on your feet acting all the time. Why yale, like other place most at a really great people come. for a year or two, and then they split than they go off they're the ones who are actually doing it. Yet, most of the teachers that are lifelong teachers in academic institutions are not as great as the people who are practised,
and then come for a year or two and then rapidly might be great teachers, and hopefully, in that character they they surrender to that as opposed to a habit on their shoulders. Well, you might like. I mean that would be an optimistic rendering the in fact, I think they still quite a bit of you know better this year our I am at the time the non commercial theater was championed as the thing I was gonna make america save. You know america artistically jerk. You know we didn't have to worry about all the currencies of making money and television a letter. So the big thing was these: with a cold lord theatres, these regional theatre, yeah, so read out a drama school. I got a job at the guthrie. What does anyone have any app was exactly at in minnesota form. Now I think you're, nice, it's very nice, but to my shock I found that the non commercial world is every bit as curve
in its own way and every bit as full of you know, pain it is, and all that stuff, as any other asked rely impatient, is more exactly where they have their depending on getting money from you know in the case of of the gutter jail. Can we want is a great theater, but it needs the money from three m and pills variant, however else's and in minnesota too, you know they. All those plush seats got money right when the tickets cos sure and within the company. There was a lot of jockeying for position and all that kind of turf- and you know so I was well. That's also another place where lifers show up is to stay at you on those boards for an anti to sort of dig in two an organisation that is, you add in part. Their job is be in between the pay and in the cast in everything else and in their people that stay in that world for years. It's so interesting the people, the people who choose
like. I lived in a club in new york city here. Co ops have co op boards, it's kind of necessary evil there our people, that are usually people, live in the co op right and they make all kinds? powerful determinations about who can live. There was something that generally, You can be sure if somebody wants me to call up or their an asshole its usual good in a church. And very faintly their lawyers or other people that work and allied professions cause they used to rules and all that yet I most instead at the people who wanna, do that's enough. Yeah no, they wanna, be around the action and control it, but not actually be a part of it. Yet and now let me get paid to the religious right to execute this or we're dead, but very you have real power, yeah Well, yeah! Well, there yeah, I mean yeah, it's a it's, a dubious personality, type of thing, plenty of them around. There are absolutely so
Our rights are now you're you're in minneapolis. It's you now in minneapolis, you're doing the acting right, I'm doing the acting you're doing a lot of plays a lot of players and are you getting good No, I didn't really get. It took me about twenty years to get any good. After out of drama school, I've had a very weird I dunno if you've heard about any of this before I've had a very kind of weird trajectory as an actor after I got back Many of us I came back to new york where I was from and are you have actually still down a flower? My folks are simpler, see again a pardon viagra york. Yeah actually was subletting an apartment from somebody in the seventies a missus s earlier. Ok, so I got what I. I was gonna, be a great gig. I gigawatt Amado, as the original american production of amadeus the year salutary
you know I had a much smaller rob, but still a pretty good yet, and it was a great play I had seen it. I was excited to be a part of it and I got a job both doing the tour of it and actually also doing it on broad, with a broadway to her and the actual broadway schumpeter about, and I did it for sixteen months long. who was salutary- I did it with several sawyer- is the main salutary that I'd that I did it with on the tour was a guy called Daniel Davis, but I did it with franklin: langella, with David dukes, many different guy was mozart. Also many different- including if the people that I did it with on broadway, when I came to do it on broadway, was god luke skywalker mark and mark hamill yeah? Who was a terrific, terrific and yeah yeah, and I used to
was it a kick for me, I used to wit he he was so embarrassed because he'd have all these fans line up outside the stage here in france from star we're and he was earnestly trying and succeeding give a great performance in something that had nothing do a star will rise by everybody. was in new york from you know. Yet as a main, you want to see more camera, so they'd be like slow, and up within a walkie costumes and all that outside the police bearers but I would wait to go out of the stage or him to feel Is that wrong or warm love, though he was at a gas field. So your your besakih of beside a guy looking at people with lightsabers? Are you getting some love contact high from people wearing costumes? Yes, what happened to me once midway HU this run about eight months into this run. I began to get severe paralyzing stage fright actors who relax into a long run and they get better.
they find new, interesting things and stuff with me I'll hurting her things like doing movies, which I enjoy once the audiences in I think to represent them near so suddenly Offer me. Well, it's more like to get more info psychological aspect of things, my HU. I told you about here and to some degree, My mother, though that was different, were my dad was a lovely guy but sort of depressed. He had this kind of depressed affect, as have already yes, heavy, hearted and but but sweet yet not bitter I somehow got the idea at a very young age was my job in life to make it seem? Life like life was a winnable proposition to him. The I know that when you know I mean you're, my doubtless depressive yeah, so I entertain your dead yet, and I actually expanded that to the whole idea of being actor in general performer general. Yes, sir
even though I love the power, I love the rush of being able to make people If we move them more have them. You know. join me. Yet it became burdensome it became like such. I thought that an actor has to be superhuman when in fact and actors has to be human, if you re sure yet, but I had this, does this mantle of happiness alike and I began to resent it and it began to make me have this terrible, terrible state right I mean so bad. It took every ounce of courage and discipline had just to get my asked dorothy. sure- and I felt like you know here- I am I have this broadway gig. I was young. I was twenty seven or six of the young guy. Well, that's interesting because you sort of like ingrained a a strange code, and a relationship with the audience that it was on you exactly two too to make life better for them
I told you. I told you that the the world is divided up into people that are lovable in my some part of my sick, mind and people need to earn it. I guess I I guess so I I'm having a hard time making the leap in the sense that, like I, can see how you have to earn it, but but you, but outside of that, I think that on a deeper level, there's self sacrifice I like that. Like you know, you ve decided that liking. I I've gotta, if I'm not feeling up to it now these people are going to be disappointed. I'm not going to make life better for them. He ina, I guess that's a say his arm but yeah, but in the infant state of that thinking, if they don't take care of me, If they don't love me yeah, I'm like gone, you don't need me. I was also adopted. I should point out. Maybe you were. I was adopted and told that I was adopted one eye as soon as I could talk. Right you're, real parents, my biological mother,
as a woman who I know lives here now, I want to call Nancy's allah. Who was an actress. My biological father was a british psychoanalyst called stand silverstone now deceased, but I got to meet him too before he died. The recent bring that up. It when a child knows that he's adopted yeah? I think even tat, even did the best circumstances told in the most positive possible way the child things will wait. A second If I was given up once here. Maybe that could happen again. Maybe I, if I don't play my car writer. If I'm not right or or probably a little bit of like you know. Why was I so terrible? Yet what it? what. Why was? I am keep will in the first place, be at all. They get rid of me yeah, and this is to blame. I think my my mother, my biological mother, made the absolute right decision. She was a young girl. She was not in position to have children array that stuff, but this is
part of what happens in your mind when you're you're a little kid hearing that you're adopted by anyway. So I think this was this also fed into the situation so here I was, and in order to get through the play I had to take drugs and stuff. It was my why, like volume, ok, and like an item and recreational trucks are trying to get through really so a kind of wait, do you're in your mid, twenties and you're having a hard time stepping out there yeah- and I felt this bad thing because I felt like you know, people said, don't be an actor to her now I'll show you in Ojeda dramas, go out this broadway gig when you're twenty six years, the broadway you gotta be kidding. That's a big fucking deal, sure you know and now you're exactly I can't handle it. I thought this is awful. What am I going to do so? I said I thought I have to finish their run. If I don't finish around, I'm just going to grow up in a ball and then I can't wait yeah quit yet so I finished it and when I finish it I said
doing that again, I'm never never going again cause this stage, for I was so overwhelming, yeah horrible yeah, and meanwhile I had an agent who was very begin voice over the very power Malta is ended this before we begin the world towards agent was at abrams Harry yeah. The original harry abe run abrams. He was very big, whatever's, and I knew I I knew about voice overs, because my father had had a break close friend was announced. As the eyes were then call this guy can roberts, half lovely guy? Who is it? the tony roberts, the actors you're, so I said Harry abrams, listen, I want to pursue voice errors and he was not taken encouraging for said well, all right out cited try so right out of the box, I got mercedes benz tv and yet commercial. Yes, it is bands, and I got conical, which is a big oil companies, and I I was lucky and I was making a lot of money for you. I mean had no responsibilities. Yeah, that's a sweet gig! That money was great
then her even then. In fact, then it was more in the instead is the mid eighties, making a few hundred thousand dollars a year yeah when that was a lot of money and no family, no, car payments, no nothing changes and my artistic needs, such as they were. we're being met by writing and doing other stuff, but no acting ripe it. But it's yet, though, those voice over gigs, I mean like if you get a run of them, yeah, yeah and, and you think it's going to go on forever. That's human nature! You know you think. Well, the voice like you is the only hinges on your ability to have it right and also it being kind of in vogue. you like anything else. I can get a run year there. I didn't quite as I had a long run, but eventually it sort of ended, and then he did that sweet movie with lake valve the year in a world movie would yeah about voiceover yeah, exactly yeah yeah. The lake didn't know at the time that I had a long voice. She didn't know it was a total shocker, but so here's what happened I started doing all these voice overs and occasionally I
do a movie. If I didn't have to addition me. So I got like spoiled it was. passing director, wonderful catherine article, Julia taylor, who castle of woody allen's movies, have yet right. That's right now that name from yet she then did that and is another guy howard fewer now deceased. But there are few cast directors who liked me and they would say you know like woody as a psychiatrist six days, you want to do it. What movie was that I was in ireland, seven woody allen, films, Hannan, her sisters, another woman, all these woody on little debt parts, yet generally jolly, very small, but you know because it- because they're his movies, their memorable shore and then- those things and I got a movie. I got some bigger parts. It was a movie that I did with share called suspect here: also in the eighty is enough. A movie called a good mother with Diane Keaton. We're had significant role, but I would not wish they would just you know I would be was so we deal spoil the area I need the money. I didn't care as a hobby from so this went on
like twenty years. I feel well, listen don't get me wrong. I'm very grateful extremely grateful that I was able to do it. The lighted it didn't do for my growth, human being I got to before hundred pounds no kidding. I was for, pounds, yeah yeah, not because I'm not saying I was doing for outermost outward rent, because I was doing voice overs, but because I became unwilling I became unwilling to do things where the outcome wasn't assured. I became less willing to take any kind of risks. I got very self pity active all my relationships with women, very, very limited, where I could control things weather it was. It cannot in inequality and power rather than a rather than more of a shared kind of a thing, and then he just kept eating could control that, yeah. Well, you know. After all, you know what a box of donuts duty or you dont know enter in our relationship with it.
In another human being right yeah, that foodstuff goes either way either denying it or engaging it is about control. It's like any other substance. It's like any other addiction. Did you have to go to recovery for it, yeah yeah? and my income my recover is, though I am committed to It- is incomplete, as is evidenced by many a uniform japan. No I'm sure four hundred pounds- and I have other things in my life besides food that I derive show snatched from right, but I got to be foreigner pounds and I got to be very- my life- got to be the size of a shoe box. It got to be really small and I went through a period where I became extremely ah agoraphobia, can like wouldn't be my apartment, really yeah for several years, so this is sort of like you know it's like They tried all over again, yes, a reality. Yes, yes, a good point, and I think there were, I think they were
I did. I think they were all right, but now it's like the real. So I now you you got nowhere to grow. You can't not. You could not go to the theatre, you can't not going live. Where you can you wash take that back you're right, you can not good or life yes, but the cost is extremely high. Right out. so you're miserable I was I was. I look right. I was made a ton of money, living in my own little air conditioned. Trailer or whether we want to call it where I would not work in a shooting fish in a barrel only doing things where I thought I could win and here in the city in the city and debt of it being the sort of paradise. It was a jail cell helmets, yeah sucked misery, horrible, just use it. There with food, food and women to a certain extent, by women in a very limited relations. I understand right, yeah, yeah and cut off. So what breaks? What gives well
I have a number of different things happen. I don't know what happened first, but I start to get better. I I went to a psychiatrist this guy. That was very helpful. I also got involved in a twelve programme is very helpful to me. You know a lot of stuff have waited. When did he solve some stuff around your adoptive parents, I'll call you have sixty Now, though, it so funny to me when I hear people like in their eighties talking about their toxic parents now what, when I was twenty seven yeah, I used to play cards a lot. They like to play poker yeah. One day I came home was about two in the morning. Yeah there's answer on my machine: saying my name is nancy. Please call me collect at such and such a number in California. This is when I was living in your area, so I thought well Maybe it and should you call late, I thought maybe it's about job or something right. So I call this number and she said is discredited. Yes, she said you know you're adopted.
I said yes and she knew that. I knew that I was adopted because she had hired a detective. Call me with a made up story about trying to probative will, with the name of somebody similar to mine. You remember that call sure yeah. So she said you know your doktor s head. Yes, she said: well, I'm your biological mother, I'm your birth mother, in my head began to sort of spin, and then we talk. for hours on the fire. That night, all about whom my father was what the circumstances of my birth, all that who she was and when she found tat. I was an actor. She had been an actress and wasn't act sure you know that sort of blue ahead of you. I owe excited at that and she said, in about a month When it comes to new york, she was living here in l, a yeah she had in a month, I'm going to come to new york. Would you like to meet so? I said yeah. She said Meanwhile? If you want to check just to make sure what I'm saying is true, you can go to the to the hall of records in new york city and if your adopted, you have to birth certificates,
one has your adoptive name on it from your parents. Other has your birth name or just baby, but they same number and their their cross reference. So I did, I saw what she was saying was true. so she said, I'm gonna go to new york and, like a month you wanna meet. So I said yeah, so I remember walking into the lobby of the domain, one hotel on fifty nine streton park avenue with this box full of photographs of growing up in my sister fire island and all things from my childhood and she also had a box of pictures, and we talk in this strange feeling, because you know you in a wee wee knowledge, look alike, we talk a lot. My wife laughed hysterically when she first matter because known family that raised me either looks like me or seems, like me, right nancy, who I never met until I was twenty seven. We talk exactly the same course right. We're yeah but understandable, well
I mean it shows how much is actually in the genes you're sure. So I go and meet her. We talk and you know you can't. I dont know how to You are connected, but you don't really know each other. So it's a funny feeling with no corolla live in life. It's not like anything else here. So she says to me. It was like united as I'm kind of hungry. Do you wanna get something to eat? I said yeah sure socialism, open late. So time there with his hamburger the hamburger chain in new york, called jackson hall. What school will go to jacksonville so we're going to get burgers right? Yeah. Of course, I know the boil the biggest hamburger itself, we gotta jackson, home we're sitting there and she she's wearing this white, beautiful silk like blouse he takes a bite of his hamburger and a good cup of ketchup yeah, skirting out of the bottom, all over this white blausser cheese wearing, and if I had any doubt
that we were related. It vanished. I knew that had the eager my mind so me, her like, I should eat in the shower that area right away, yeah, and so we had this. You know the strange bonding It was twenty. I was twenty seven now sixty, so that's along, go here and it's a long story I'm and she she she had three sons. I was First, she had another one, five years after me and another one roughly five years after that, so each separated by five years did you keep the other two? though, yes, the one, the one in the middle name was area they lived to new york, yet So they lived in a village in over the waverley theatres later became the the m tonnes. Samuel waverley place! Yet it's now the independence Data will arrive at the idea right so that the
where they lived right over that in an apartment right over them. Eric who is would now be fifty five if he were alive, was crossing the sixth avenue when he was a kid and he was hit by a truck and he was killed when he was quite young think he was like nine, so SAM, who is my the the youngest of ten here's. My junior is still alive, lives in a and has a family of his own, he was raised by Nancy. And another man that she married, not my father right, a guy also a guy in the theater who ran it. A man called albert schumann who ran a theoretical, the national shakespeare company yeah. So it's all interesting yeah. You come from theatre, yeah, yeah, theater theater. My two parents were an actor. and a cycle analyse there and if you know me, that's like so fuckin central casting bullshit television movie the week that nobody would you believe it's a stupid, but it's out to be true. So now they are getting back to that you hitting bottom. So what ships? You know you for
your pounds, you you you get into recovery, you realize you're unhappy or in therapy, and you you you doing. Ok financially! So what? How do you turn it around? Well, here's the strange thing. what, if what, if one of the several strange things that happen so doing better, but I'm still just doing voice. Overs I go to a twelve september, tells me interrogated things happen here and then. I meet a girl, We decide we really like to reside to get married. We have children. And I'm still being very warm the voice of our world and doing an occasional movie now and then the grove it's out on the YAP gamma. Yet we met, we now been twenty four years, so this is so we decided to get married after a few years. We will have kids and but that was you know I was. I thought I'm too
selfish at the end of it, but I always loved children. So eventually I said: okay, we'll have kids, so we have kids at about sixteen months of of of age. Both of our children, who are twins are diagnosed with autism, both of them, And that month I my main job is I work for CBS, I'm the voice of CBS sports. So every show this on CBS sports nfl on CBS golf tennis, everything I'm on uh yeah unbelievable knit eight hours a week, eight thousand dollars a week, fifty to sixty four health covered everything, great and very, on demanding. so they bring in a new creative team, see later, in other words last night. So, all of a sudden I married now, I have really quantum billy's, I'm forty five or whatever I am. I have kids with autism
I have two hours I married and all of a sudden, for making you no five. If a thousand dollars a year to making eleven thousand. He said, let's go to hollywood for Honey were moved, so things are really dire out now. What? How does this? In your particular situation, how how does the autism manifest it's like? where our well one son, has no visible traces of autism at all left anymore, but at least that the that anyone can perceive the other son still has fairly profound autism. They both have the exact same interventions, the exact same treatments, They started off at different levels, but for four reasons that I can't explain
The son who got better is better to the point where I dont think you would ever be suspicious that he any problem as severe as autism at all is very social, always very firmly. Smart illustrated soon, but it's not nerdy at all, and I am not you know right he's just is a very bright or even if you look at the other son, very sweet and good natured, but is his speeches limited? He can speak, but you can hold a conversation with em I play but he's fourteen years old and he plays with things like tea still obsessed with thomas. You know, thomas the tank engine mere stuff like that right and he doesn't really play with other kids he's not He's biddable hill he's not like really difficult yet, but intellectually, cognitive, really he's very limited and idle I think he'll be able to take care of himself. I think he'll I mean I think, will be able to find some kind of work that is satisfy tibet, hilary, let you know
to be living in some kind of a situation where he supported either with family are winning the epp group situated something sure so he's very profoundly- affect The other guy is just going to be. Isn't that interesting, yeah? How? How do you? How do they account for the difference in autism? Is such a complex disorder here and it's so idiosyncratic the way that affects different people? there's no there's no way to tell how severely somebody's can be effected. It's really at we. We refer to it as if it's one, but it's actually many different things that can go wrong. Witwer happened was we were living in the city at the time we lived in city here, but we country house out in montauk yeah, but we were told we have to get these services immediately. There is one particular kind of therapy called a b, a fair arm, which is the kind of the the kind of most
important therapy to get him, and we ve told times if the apes essence, you gotta get it right away and it was such an avalanche of cases. This is nineteen. This is two thousand and four such an avalanche of cases in new york that, even though legally we are entitled to get, these services can count. Em too many people really yeah. So we have this house in the country and we had a doctor a pediatrician out there who had listened. There's a school out here, early, really good school that serves both kids with autism and also typical children and gifted children. So you should check it out, so we went to the school we really liked. It. the woman who ran schools had listen. If you can move here, this was like june. Is that if you can move here by the end of august, I can guarantee you thirty hours. per week per child in homes, services. Thirty hours there was a state yet all paid for with federal.
yeah when their when their below school age, the arrow government, ok so higher to therapists to war, just work with you and your family, that's it and then another ten hours per week of speech and other stuff in the school. So this was unbelievable. They don't get the eighty today, you can't get these kind of our rights, but this was back them, so we moved full time out tomorrow, and eventually went up selling our apartment in new york, but lived in montauk and had a studio built in the in in montauk like this. Not unlike this ticket, you sdn yeah yeah, whatever the highest and tapes derived right. Rice was fine yeah then the bottom fell out. I Two cbs gig visa and now things are really bad, because now money coming in and no career other than doing voiceovers. He had some money saved.
I did it lasted about two years and then it was. There wasn't very much of it anymore and you're out Maintop monti with no work right but your kids are doing. Good kids are doing great. Life out there, but things are good. Dire wreck, so His friend and this friend said to me: listen lucky years worth of money left before you have to do something really dramatic like so your house, or something If you didn't have to worry about money. What would you What would you like to do so? I didn't have to worry about it. I like to go back to acting and writing like I did years ago, yeah, but it's so it's such a long shot. He said so you're gonna have to do something yeah, so once you give it a try, so I did to no great success at first. I was, unlike you know, law and order. I did all the new york thing. You know everybody. I've ever worked as a as a demon's at bloomingdales gets to be on law and order if you live in new york, so yeah,
then one day, I'm sitting at home with my wife and things are like you know really shitty and my wife gets the answers. The phone is a phone call, she says: do you know somebody called Joel Cohen and happened in one account, Nicole as a joke on the account What can giannis Joel and Ethan Coen hello? fred how you doing one fine and I knew them a little bit because your friends were francis from conference, with John Turturro John goodman and I kind of know their retinue yeah yeah and also I had auditioned for barton fink like twenty, prior to that in a member jack lip nick, the character, Michael and I go into right- who I use them on my show, he's fantastic these great in that great in that he's a wrestling picture right. He was actually whenever nausea. Anyway. I know I heard day when russia so Joe gets. the funds as fred. How you doing I set a great thanks. How are you said? Well, so we have this movie. It's called a serious man.
There's a role in this movie and it's not a huge role, but it spray key to the story, and I did- and I just have a failure really good in this role. Are you interested yeah? I was like well. Let me check my book yeah. I said yes, I said so that it'd come to new york, came to new york, talked it over with them, and they said great. We want you to do it, you fantastic. So I said great since this that only one problem. The problem is we three movies that we're scheduling kind of at the same time. One of them is by after reading, which of course has a big stars in its spread ted and ensures clooney malkovich. so we have to do them based on the availability of these other actor. Yet so a year passes and by then the well is like a really really running dry and I think this is gonna net. This is hollywood things. Were it such a great, it's a great movie, it's going to never going to get me yeah yeah, and then they call yeah. So, finally, I go out to his
was our maiden in Minneapolis europe group towards minneapolis. To make the movie at a total blasphemy enjoyed just totally of making it an michael still barghouti place, learn it my dear friend and I had just I salute and they were wonderful to media. totally reinvigorated my desire to make movies and all that stuff, and it was one of getting nominated for best picture, and I wanted independent spirit. A word for word. also at the age of fifty two. I suddenly had this whole second, you're back employer yeah, as you know, and that's like at that is expected to be. at age and suddenly be back in the saddle is like that. Never happens. We especially cause. You know like. We said earlier in this interview that you know you you, you convince yourself at work you want to do in your heart is not doable and that you work right away there's no, there is no more powerful positive experience that I've ever had then be
the proven wrong about my own limitations. That's a great thing: it's fantastic because I you know- and I've said it on the show or it'd, be one of a powerful thing that somebody said to me when you're a talented person, you know the only thing: that's going, To enable you on some level to move through life and use your talent is to realise its limitations, And- and I thought that was very sage advice, but you know if, if what you're harbouring need. That is, like you know, there's so much more one wanted. Will you must push you have to push? You have to push raft, we you might not be able to do that on your own anymore, I think I think I think very often you can't here's. The thing that I didn't know thing that I didn't know is there's a very significant difference between comfort and happiness. They are two different things. I'm saying I do but I thought I'm such a messed up guy.
I'm never going to be able to have the things that I really want. I'm too scared, I'm to whatever so comfort is when I'm gonna go for So I made my life about the amassing of comfort in every right, right, comfort, comfort in like www, honesty, sure but happiness is be achieved or can me you can feel it can get it, but very often. You have to be willing to undergo a significant level of discomfort to get there and I was just not of the mind to do it for a long time I wasn't willing to do it right. You know right and look. I don't you know, that's the way. It is its way happen. But in my life lucky that and truthfully, if things had if I'd, continue doing voice and continue making money, I think, if I didn't think, Fuck the world is over, I know
would have had this whole happy. Second part of my life, I think certain people me included are not always willing to take enough of a risk unless there for two and when you go wild, whole world out there, that I had written off because I just thought I was too frightened to see what it is about: the OECD, control. Why you didn't write an image and the truth is its much half it's much better to live big under the big sky, with all the uncertainty, polish horrible shit that we know can happen than to live this little self contained hermetic box said I you have control. yeah, the allusion right. Will you think Its control but, like I said it's been ones being a jail, so yeah jail. So you can try a powerful and the I'm think about that, so that their in that's really what relaunched you was that serious man,
yeah, but it relaunch me in two ways: it relaunch me both from a meaning people. Seeing me point of view, which his great, but also in my own heart, ragout wow. You know, this is great challenges? Can I think it's so acting as a fucking gas on love, Acta, things all about people, how we People are how how people tell themselves lock is what you know. People can tell him anything, then they get to the point as a human being get to the point where. Being donald trump, is ok or being killed killing. Somebody is ok here. You know he doesn't think he's a piece of shit. He thinks he's doing the world a favorite right. How does a person? How did they get there to me? That's fascinating how people and its and its human? It that's exactly the point yeah, that's exactly what acting is all about human beings. That's why it's never not interesting! That's beautiful one
it worked out me too. Now I'm going to spend the rest of the day, thinking about comfort and happiness and the difference between them. Well, I have a feeling you'll come out on the right side of that one too. I appreciate you talking to me it's my great pleasure That was great from He came by like talking to us. For some reason fields. how gabor warm presence to me some familiar about death, Mr Milosevic, I the
the so I'll ending burma.
Transcript generated on 2022-09-03.