« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 827 - Glow Writers & Creators

2017-07-09 | 🔗
Give a listen to how the sausage of television gets made as Marc talks with the creative team behind the show GLOW. First, hear about the process of scripting a season of television as a group from the show's writers, Rachel Shukert, Nick Jones and Sascha Rothschild. Then Marc speaks with the creators and showrunners Carly Mensch and Liz Flahive who had to bring all the parts together and still maintain their long-standing friendship.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this! How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the fuck and ears, what the fuck crabs, what the fuck publicans the fusion and, of course you what fuck makes welcome. This is my show. This is mark maron talking in your head, driver exerciser. Bake or whatever the hell you paint here, man, it's over a hundred, gotta turn the air conditioner off in here record to have this wonderfully professional. sounding product, today on the show? This is the last of a series of shows that we and doing revolving around the netflix show glow the gorgeous ladies of wrestling, which I am part of it was. great opportunity really for this. Anyways to sort of
track the decree. edition of the show in a lot of ways, or at least to understand it and be part. Jan part of a production that isn't my show and I'm working with a a producer a genius I've get today on the show? We've got the showrunners, the creators of the show carla mention ways play hide and we've also got, yeah. The writing team rachel shoe kurt nick jones, and sasha rothschild we I actually put this in the can when they were still on the set aglow that anyone there writers, anyways lazy, carly came over here. The show run is dead. This is like this. The ground level of the creation in the way that the aid show runners or the creators. The show created the show, so we talk to them about that and the writers. You know it was interesting to talk to them about how they were able to generate these characters. Are so many characters
and also that it was nice that they were writing. while we were shooting so that they could voice my character a little bit more like me when they knew what it was that I could do so. This is the the batch they glow episodes and is a good it's good to be, especially if you're I don't want to use the word creator too vague, but if you're a writer who, get into tv writing? This should have some value information, and these are good people decent, he the lot of them? Man people are robbing the show, I can be more excited about that speaking ouch shows I would like to bring your you got friend of mine. He's been. Show before is very funny dude, I love watching them. comedies names, Brian skull arrow. You might remember him great voice. Scholars got a great voice he's got a new comedy, album outfits called stupid time, a sketch album you can get it on itunes or all things records, dot, com,
brian's record. He's a funny guy, so we'll tell you what I've been up to the last couple days over the again senator our frank. It asks me to to moderate. conversation with him? over in beverly hills at the Wallis theatre, the wall, a centre for the performing arts eight day. He make up a week. I say, of course we did that a book kind. We got it thing going. I datum on the podcast I interviewed him, book on live. We had some good dick. You go uneasy, raising he's in top form both as a senator and I the cares with a big heart, but also as a funny man. Al is fucking hilarious areas former and writer on top being an amazingly hearted progressive, senator, and I love working with him, but it was it It's sort of amazing that it did I'm sort of a team stick ike as you and I knew which stories like,
and did great all his stories. Some of them are really because he's a great comedy writer structured beautifully almost like jokes, you would read long stories and so by the third time I worked with them, live we really had kind of a team, dynamic owen, and I didn't It is to him, but you know if he, if he ever retires from a from the senate. I I did, I wouldn't mind, maybe hitting the well for some gigs he used to be in a team. He knows how to do it. I know how to do it. I'm a pretty good straight man for the senator, What's funny is that and I believe he's a great senator and young he's doing great work, he's got balls, he's, got the courage and he's his righteous in a real way and he's done some great things lately in in terms of calling in certain people out I'm just a line of questioning on a committee and in and yield some pretty amazing via
videos at the very least, but I also some monumental shifts in the process of government at this moment in time, but- What surprised me was. We were talking the other day. We did. This didn't happen. The first time we I'm real, doing this as a build up to tell a dirty joke. So, if you're you're out fast forwarding is a pretty good dirty joke coming so our we're talking, I'm talking now and then we're talking about his dad and you he. If he a comedy in the house and I'll tells me his dad was a great day, buddy Hackett fan and who wasn't buddy Hackett was really the funniest guy. I and I knew of when I was a little kid. My grandmother who have buddy hackett cheese to go. You have a grin my goldie's, just like very funny, we see him in vegas, but he's filthy. The word filthy needs more needs more play, but
but I'll tell me that you, father buddy, accurate and always did and years after his father passed away. He ran into buddy hack it on an airplane and said mister hack, it might my father was fan of yours and you made him very happy is if you were comic to something to something, Buddy Hackett turned to owl and went into this joke, which I will tell and to see, but do picture Al Franken telling this sen Al Franken beautiful it was beautiful. I wish we had it on tape. Guy goes into the doctor to gotta as a dot on his head, and he says doc. What is this? The doc yeah yeah. I have not seen that before it says why? What is it the doctor says? Well what what happenings. You can have a where that that is a penis, is gonna grow out of your forehead in about six months. You have a full grown p it's growing out of your forehead, so the guy says well
Can you cut it off and the doctor says? No, because it's connected directly to your brain and then the guy says. Why do you mean yeah? Two months time I'm going to wake up in the morning, I'm going to look in the mirror and I'm going to see a penis. Hanging over my forehead. Just stick it out there in the doktor goes no You won't be able to see it because the balls will be hanging in your eyes. The ball. we'll will be hanging in your eyes. That's a hell of a turn at the buddy had to joke conveyed to me by senator Al Franken. In the context, tribute to his father, who love buddy act, and it gave me the opportunity to tell you that dirty joke classic dirty joke with a b full twisted the. What? What more can you ask for on a monday morning. Am I right You will be able to see it because the balls
we'll be hanging in your eyes. Get it got it. Let's get into this. Let's get into the right. Is racial, racial, racial? No, no rachel shook art nick jones and sasha Rothschild worth a primary writers the writers room of glow, and I spoke to them at the production facility out there the sound stages and we talked about being writers if that's of interest to you here. It comes so rachel nick sasha writers for glow. I've had said the words of all of you. I've had problems with
some of the words nick. I who I there was actually no real struggles on set. I think I was going to talk about me for I thought I was very. I was a real mench europe writings were all good and I didn't fight for any We are worried about you where you going it yeah We didn't know how ornery you would be. Is that true yeah? yeah you have a shockingly cheery disposition on set I'm not. I didn't have to worry about much. I thought like this. on me. If this in craps out it's their thing, I just have to show up and do my job yeah. I was a working man, that's how we feel. I also made a discovery late in the shoot that the crane Here you got the funnier. You got that Austria
if you're cranky as day, I thought you were on fire- is that true yeah? What day was that we talked about? It was episode eight up in the office, and then I think we also did the the the car scene with ally. Okay, oh right, causing right alleyways, major cranky, we, Sitting there in the car and there's a my my resentment is, is I'm in a car on a trailer and you guys sitting in your will can be up their kind of laughing talking about other things and I'm just sitting in a fucking trailer watching you guys just have a day it's a problem welcome star, I think about how much more you get paid than we do. Do I probably I dunno I hope so. I would think I should go down that road. Yeah good talk numbers I liked when you would yell at yourself, because you are Never yell at others, which I thought was a mensch very mensch
I am sure, my new demands. I don't want to be one of those assholes. So, let's go like how what have you written on rachel before as I wrote on supergirl last season and I wrote on the show called red band society that ran on fox for one season, and what did you do before that? Oh all kinds of things ass. I wrote books mostly and relaxing and yeah as a player. I really replay right yeah rooks, no, like a lot of this. What a playwright, because carlini razor playwrights that's we all know each other from that from for like ten ten eleven years, Carl and listen. I were on the same writers group, but our november york. Unlike two thousand and six, I knew no one. The idea was that was actually to highlight our hollywood yeah you're good you're you're like the outlier? All these people are new york,
gente at the mar the highbrows we were before we came to l a but but when you were doing plays like what like tell me about nick l I'll get don't worry, I'm not worried next, so tell me about your first play that you put up well, I mean I start doing- plays in college that I wrote and starred in and multi purpose room, gorse, unwell, welles like orson welles, but exactly much worse and then I came the to new york and I started doing puppet shows because I couldn't figure out how to to do plays with that required all the resources that I had in college. So I actually was like a puppeteer. When I met this guy really now had you had a buck, a trunk full of why it sir I had it is this group called jolly, surely wait they and their ways like a rock band with puppets, I like ten hand, puppets yeah they were like rod puppets you manipulated from below
for a while. I I wanted to be a puppet, here I was. I was like. I wanna, be a puppeteer musician, because I figured like that something. No one else is in if the bar is very low yeah I was like I was like no one will know if, if I'm not really the best in the business, because I'm the only one in this business, let yourself do I get it. There's that angle and there's also the angle that you want to guarantee your failure yeah when I and I sort of was doing both. I was hedging my safely did some puppeteers, some rock puppeteer, and I did that for my twenties. All my twenty space. You have a foul. When I don't, I I many did it it was successful for the people that we were. There shows that you're aiming doing it with my friends, because it kept leading to interesting experience, We are making money, but it was like what like someone
like I'm, putting together a puppet festival in Bangkok. Would you like to come out here for a month? So, yes, I wore it. So we we did that, and I ended up going place, bangkok with the puppets yeah I went to ireland. I went to it's all over really and then The eminent no vengefully produced the show her and it was a success for for what it was and then that that lead to getting an agent writing for humans yeah, eventually, like painfully I've. I've learned how to write for human barely without much nuance, because I didn't learn that, could you need that? Would public private sent up it's our this television that happens now have notes to you too, MR puppets maker, I mean you should stop him.
among them are, I just I just took them out of the boxes and I'm trying to find a place for them in my life again, okay, so when, when you were doing this, what who are your heroes? Where were you thinking like I am going to this is this is a career that I respect creative, young, I'm going to emulate that Jim Henson I mean, Everyone loves, do hint and I wasn't emulating him cause. I was I wanted to make a puppet show that didn't look like them up and what are those bike? Plush puppets. That is that our efforts I think right where I was, is saving Sarah Marshall somehow based on you, oh god, no, and that now is the bane of my existence at the time cause. That's when I was like deep in it and and if I'm in it for awhile as a very proud to be a puppeteer or whatever you enter a conversation, at least it was making, my calling and women women loved it. There was. There was the
the times I was in my my prime, but then Sarah Marshall came along and that hijacked the conversation. If I, if I mentioned the puppet, shows they're like oh, have you seen Sarah oh really, forgetting Sarah Marshall, rained on your parade. Yeah we'd have to talk about that fucking movie. Instead of me, the important work you are doing with puppets yeah, so where'd you come from Sasha you're like you like a sordid history. Don't you, I sure, do I come from miami beach? That's where real way back its worst started our reach. Yet how does it happen? I was born in the swamps of everglades city really and then, when I was three we had to flee to miami because my father, I rode in article four rolling stone exposing all the drug dealers smuggling drugs up through the swamps of every laid city to miami
about that that accomplishment he wasn't. He was just. He thought it was a good story. He didn't actually fully think through was a journal use, a journalist wrote, he was not anti drug aegis was a journalist right so ended up. a growing up in miami beach and knew that I love her like will you now run he wants? Is we got to miami and it was sort of wasn't he I you know, I don't know why no one killed him. Actually, he was safe for for whatever reason I need to be that sounds like a good story in and of itself is they'll tell that story. You could tell him. I know yeah well well, well, here yeah and I still don't know all the details. What really went on, but a crazy place to grow up he's a writer. I knew I wanted to be a writer. I knew I wanted to write for television, so I moved to l when I was twenty one and immediately started waitressing and waitress at the improv years ago, where I crossed paths with you, but you didn't you do
you if never weren't aware. I was very aware of your existence. really I rely vic waitress I didn't get involved. I don't know you are smart, well, I know what happened and it's not like it. Didn't happen in my life, but, like I just didn't, do it because, like how many of those conversations where you're at who am I following if you don't like you're, not onstage, webbing, literally, which guys do I know there. And are they funnier Is that, like you, fucked him yeah, but he's not a he's? A hack can't believe you fucked up totally so alright. So fuck some comics, so I fuck some comics that and I'll learn how to write a joke and when he is, that was one of the reasons you took the gig there too, I did. I was an assistant on a late night show, and I knew that I would never be a writer on that show because they would never hire me as a writer. The late late show, with craig kilborn really a yes, and I learned a lot
I grading by watching the writers but knew I wouldn't get a shot, and I thought I'm going to my time is going to be better served, actually cocktail in making a little money listening to comics all night long. The viewer I did, I learned I learned. I learned why jokes land I learned, the rhythm of jokes are known as tell him: no, no, I just just by listening just absorbed and and then was having a hard time breaking in tv and then was having a hard time breaking in movies and then started writing articles immediately thought of l, a weekly and I wrote a couple articles four playboy and I wrote a couple articles for maximum and dumb back when the related later, when their actual magazine and then one of my articles took off, it was called how to get divorced by thirty and then within one week. I a movie deal at universal in a book deal at penguin, so it ten years to be an overnight success, that's pretty low! That's why a good number
as a good yeah, so that it can take a while longer than I can take. Allow me, I know what you're going to five. So I got you know. I was on that plan, you're in a twenty five year me. I want you doing pretty well now given up on you know, but it was yes, twenty five, so there you were you got these deals, but deals. Don't Removing was the book a bus or the book was not a best seller, but it did ok and then from that, and then I wrote the movie script, which of course, movies never gonna get made, but it put me on the map for features and then I've continued right movies and then from there have sort of consistently developed in tv and and then I was up, which is Brush your local airing, savvy if he's made no, god? Seven movie scripts had seven studios all across town and every now and again I get a call that so and so just you know attach themselves something, and then I got another call in three months and that's happened- yap, seven scripts down to four and yes to a sort of that
if they say want them out of the seven are active, and what was your first tv job, my first stevie job was actually selling a and a half hour to n b c with a friend of mine and, and that was called my best friends. Les beaux cause alas, bow and that did not go to series, but it was only with great experience that was four years ago. I so is this sort of as the heyday, is ending of making huge money and on her our development s own scripts, the YAP. And then I had such a great experience working in tv, even though it didn't didn't at airing that I really focused on t v and then got a job working on carrie diaries, which was a delightful show, which was the the prequel to sex in the city about carrie Bradshaw, which was really a mouse just a couple of years ago, a couple of years ago,
last gig had carrie diaries and then development, and then this show I am, I actually watched glow as a child and loved it and so when I read this pilot, I thought it was amazing. Why did you have it I thought or as a little girl. I thought that some of those women were so pretty and worry that their houses were so shiny and sparkly, and I would just watch them come out and this sort of glitch. see glamour and then get like down and gertie in sweat and be bad ass, an really spoke to me in a way of like sort of the high level of at all like like, I can be pretty, but I can also kick ass, a grunt and grew and I just I remember chain saw loving, and I remember the southern belles towards the end of the later series had the southern bells: are there big, hoop skirts and hollywood and vine. I love the bad,
girls, I loved it it it. Will you watch it too. No, I I remember it. I didn't watch it a lot. I remember my mother seeing donoghue donahue. I think it thinking it was hilarious and telling me all about it, and then I watched it. I think a couple has, but I was a little bit too little I remembered the appearance on married with children, yeah What are you? Are you a wrestling guy? No, I wasn't, I should have been, but you know you would think I was, but I wasn't what was your last tv gig? We didn't go over your tv history over puppets and we stopped well. I was on orange- is the new black for virginia for four years for four years yeah until that was all now, and that was your first he visa yeah. I mean I did. I decide developed some things too, but it was my first staffing job, and so you went to the school of jet see I went to school of Genji. I moved to l a for Genji for that job. Once I got it, and I've been here like four and a half years later and that, but you did it
We already talked about it yeah. I did a couple yeah, but this is the first, like you have this one more than the others yeah it's much more like me, You know cause it's one thing to work on sort of network tv. That's like a little bit. I mean not bad, but it's. It is what it is. It's like a this is how you do it it will real network television. Is the nightmare yeah, it's you know and and then you gotta deal with show runners. You think they know everything and then you gotta deal with. You know executives that don't oh anything, but have to pretend like. I know things in the world and I didn't have to deal with them as it I've see. So how did you get this gig well, I mean I'm worrying house I mean I was in house, but also like carly is orange. Is new black last season and when you know we were already friends and early hour, show runner harley, mirror leader of our leaders. Young wholly are one of our leaders actually on a hike with her in Griffith park when she got the call that netflix was going to pick up the show-
eriez. You know that's a holy shit moment, yeah and obviously I'm I'm thrilled for her, but I'm also like fuck. Well, I guess you're not going to be coming back to next year, right fight. You know- and she was one of my shroom way out and socially ones how you know I don't I don't know. I mean we're on this in this room. I think we have all we're. I see I I've had the experience were you know to people agree with more often than yeah and to others, and you in like if one person calls and sick than suddenly there's not enough of the people on your side, to like push it bill through a real life. It is now really kind of relative to the show runner. I mean it's a really kind of yeah I didn't the showrunner is not always in the room. Also, the showrunner has so many duties that like what, while the showrunners away, in a room right. Is it some time?
see. I never had that experience like my room was like. I had my show runners, and there was me and three other guys. That was the whole crew. So they were there for all the writing. They were writers, sure on it and it would go through me and then it would sort of go through them, but we just sit there looking at each other. There is no real ix yeah, everyone good, there's, a couple versions of that, though, because sometimes it's it's just like it's not like. I'll, kill it at or anything just like an affinity. You know, like you just get along better with you connect to somebody by and then there's the other version of it were. There really is this like insane political clusterfuck, where people are being extra time about who they sort of suck up to they shut out in the room, and that's the worst than that's like the horrible. That's when it fails, if you're going to work and like game of thrones and fuck yeah people are like forging alliances against you? Well, this doesn't feel like that, because you know there's not that weird network pressure
clearly netflix is like here: have some money. You need more money, there's some more money. If you have enough to eat onset, there's more you're coming really nice like mine, on top of all that currently, unless did a good job bearing like the right people for the right reasons? Where do you meet with them? How did it happen? You get the call from my call that this Genji show was, you know, netflix on this thing called glow, and I was like holy shit. I know about glow. I'm by was obsessive. Glows is a little girl and I read. if the pilot- and they had read my h b, o pilot. So they brought me in for a meeting and I just sat down coralie and terror whose Genji is producing partner and just said. I love this script, and I want this job and I kind of was there
the forthcoming and not like trying to be cool or play games, and no one else had said that no one as I like that, I think when you go look when their staffing season and you go from meaning to meaning media show interest to get staffed, you can I have a certain armor of like whatever you know, I don't care or whatever, wherever I land is finer. I have so many options and I think that having that armor is safe because most of the time you never get a job and you have to have an armor. but we have, is it something situation? I had no arms. I want really excited and really genuinely thrilled, to try and be a part of this, and I think that that's you know maybe what it doesn't always happen. As I think the dream of writers usually is to deliver a show there. So, like you know the more you try to do that along with going in for writing jobs, you get beat,
yeah yeah if it creates developed a bunch of shows you tried to sell, shows in never happen in you goin on twenty thirty years of this shit. You know you just getting a writing. Job is not that big a deal, and it's just something you ankle. The kind of yeah gnp there's an environment which, and I think, liz and carly do as well, where every every They hire gets to feeling invested Yeah they're, very generous. That way best work you know and and some days. I care about their I've beings aided and it's just a job. I were, we think we're made defeat. Like were we're all making this thing together, which is which is, I didn't know if I was going, be able to take this job. It was like a very dramatic week. Cuz I was on supergirl and weed,
we are coming back and they kept my telling us. There is obviously weird negotiation behind the scenes and nobody would like sort of give anyone a straight answer by anything and so would apply. There's a super. We're like look, we white, we all want. We want you all back, but like we don't know it can happen. So you should go on other meetings and if anybody got something that they really want to take take it and will let you go on. It won't be a problem and then everything kind of happened. All the same time right, I went on like two meetings I went on. You know this one which sort of you I remember you came into my house and were like listen carly just got the show picked up and then like you to call me the next day or like do how well do you know? Let's play hi Carl you mentioned, I was like pretty well and it was like this whole thing, and so then I had the meeting and then then they were, you know taking a while to kind of figure. Everything out in terms of like budget or whatever it was and am, and I was still I about this, and then I got another offer on another show and I would and they were. If she has to get out of supergirl lives, and so we were going to maybe try to do that. And then I got the offer glow and I was like let's I want to do glow, let's do glow, but then
was all this weird back and forth because then supergirl got like picked up the same day to the cw and they weren't gonna. Let me out of the contract, and so there had to be all this like weird back channel stuff and it was It was really tense. That's why we have agents. Yeah That's why we have agents- and I had if I was in first position on another thing and it had an intense weekend leading up to take this and was actually on my way to green land, with my mother and sister yeah and was on the fly. I really like the green lack. The signal is the actual greenland and we re in on a flight from J f k to copenhagen on the plane. When I got the call for my agency get off the plane, you have to start monday and I raised the plane then took up took a cab from
If katyn newark got on a plane newark to allay and was in the room Andy morning, real sent my mother and sister to greenland. Without me, oh my god, I was just herring, my lad. I am like weeping to my aid or on it was very dramatic its word, though. The stakes seem off we hive or something that doesn't seem to like, there's no life or death to it. But like those moments where you get a call acting like fuck. I got a fly then it's like we you and of doing nothing forever and then others and a panic where you a five minute thing with the executive? while the one day you finally book the vacation is the day you get the call right off the plank. I guarantee should always book of its like going to the bathroom in that area, but I regret that happened about him. I beg us gap if you come. I remember her sister prize. I did, for I do realise that some fancier restaurants will not put the food down if you're, not there, the really yeah, that's so passive, agree
so yeah did. They know that you're in the bathroom just to have them bring the childish trick of chicken who can wait longer, but yeah I I had to be at a meeting a general meeting for fox studio. It goes way back and I was moving from new york for this fox deal for this. Why came out to l a in two thousand and two, because I had a deal with fox and, driving? Are you all across country to move and the fucking? U hall, that we granted in new york broke down like it somewhere in pennsylvania like this, it's horrible, because there's mill the night I had to be there. You know the date like all. We had certain amount of days to get there and it was cutting into it. We had a shift to another, u hall and we had. It was a disaster and it in it was very difficult for the woman that it was we made. It may mean that meeting about change your life did nothing describe leaving, I wrote a script with a guy went nowhere
leaning everything's, a big break yeah, and you have like this. Twenty break. Sierra thing happened in only did everything perfectly in writing it at an end and you get when you actually have. happen that It came out of nowhere. Leaders like whenever you just stay busy and things ass, but all these meetings eventually certainly add up to some sort of thing: present: sardines, variant, yang meetings and being known by people, yeah yeah. Why wasn't I like we love, given that you had likewise attainment conversation twelve years ago? That was never what they said about me for like a breeze. How is he I know what you're doing when you have general meetings where your meaning the same people who are now working, indifferent studios meriting area was use. I am your eyes
your job just to have you come in what are they fucking? Do they do nothing with comics? General meetings are like well. Who do you want? Let's see who can entertain us today, yeah they have to justify their dumb jobs or destroy punch them writers in what are you doing after lunch, the worst they are. Our futures are hanging. I know them. I shouldn't be talking like this about these lovely executives, but I don't give a fuck, but our future is, hanging in their hands. So what did you have to do to get up to speed on wrestling? I knew nothing about it. I was so relieved to be told that I didn't need to hear You're a guy doesn't know anything about my perfect. Well, we didn't I mean I don't know man I mean I was a little bit of a fan overall jostling and new teeny little amount. I was on this medical show and that's how we used to weather be like, and then that you had the idea of to story. and then there bill and then there'll be a scene with some medical, medical and we'll figure that out and we had like a liaison to the hughes likes to figure out like what would really happen if your liver shut down or whatever, then you would just they'd like put in like a
like gibberish, that, like the audience, doesn't really pay attention to, and then you just go on the scene. Anyone could do what we do could do it but the weird thing about wrestling? The thing that makes it interesting is that is that how like the big shift right in the first two episodes is: how do you take a volatile? You know broken trust. You know betrayal of a friendship and then put that at the core rate of you know the the heel in the face dynamic of wrestling, I mean so like it right from the beginning. It becomes a part eternal story, but then it just translates immediately to the right. Well, that was the cool thing that we kind of found out about wrestling. Is that it it does. It's like the this larger than life encapsulate kind of like problems, you know all this because
gone the ring. It's like there's this beefs. You know and there's like this kind of soap opera and that this has been going on and so on so stall, whoever's, woman and then they were humiliated by this other persons. Around is constant, like sort of settling of scores, wrote that you're supposed to believe Israel, you- and so it was interesting to sort of take back strict and apply it to this show where there were real things happening, he wrote that like stuff actually happen, if the stage and like all of that backstory that spake in the wrestling world was real and this one now when, when you look, if, if it you know, you think ahead like I I didn't when I was doing my show, I just assumed every choosing will be the last season, but it seems like this world as a world is completely unique for a lot of reasons, but also you have so many fucking characters that like to fill another,
seasons, doesn't seem like that big of a structure for happens. Does it go on living. He could go on a really long that I will. We have what we have fishermen main character, so we can have fifteen seasons yeah. I think, in season that's right. Right, I think it a hidden away, and maybe I mean I think in it. It's like the orange is a new black template and the terms of like that, hope of the cash, I know focusing on different characters at different times with all had a line, a memoir where woman goes in prison for just over a year now, but you can can have the same stories happened, but you just say: like this episode takes place in a day or half a day. You can you can move very slowly and when and by when I say pace I mean just mean the sort of This is the time frame of. Is the timeframe not the range right. You're saying like this could be. We can keep this nineteen eighty six, nineteen, eighty seven, four, four
I mean this whole season disposed to be white like ten weeks or something real time overtime yeah, but but it's but back to what it is cool, though, to have like that sort of deeper bench, yeah, no kidding. No, it's cause cause. I think too, like coming off network television, where you have these characters that are like sat from the beginning and there's this pressure to like service every single one of them episodes in some of them. Just don't popper, they don't work or the story or add for them doesn't, and you still have to think of something for them to do like it's so nice to be able to just have some one likes how one line in an episode and right you'll get to them later? Yeah, there's still like a like. When I look at the cast on the wall here like there are still so many back stories have not been its export at all
Just get its hands is really all who were three main back stories in this enhances, and I think it's a nice for the actors to the sort of have a lot of time to feel out their characters so that by so that one season, two or three when we get to some of those like deep bench, characters like we ve thought about them, and we ve watched that those actors warming, so much that we hold out of stories or even suggested royal window likely ass, not lay thing about having to accept them up and introduce them out of no, I mean I cunning listening about line and lower old people, comfort and suddenly have stories you just seen them in the background for like three years, we are used to seeing them and it doesn't feel like this new jarring person that you write and also like why a k, rightly, but by next year, they're all going to know how to wrestle so you can act and by the end of this season I believe we're going to be wrestling.
For real in the show yeah so then, like next season, you'll be able to frame episodes with actual matches right yeah, it's only it's just going to get. More and more exciting because the drama- will ramp up at the same time that the referendum on the shoah like start to get success, but, like they'll start to have a press, in the show with which you know that start to go out there I am, and please rang out, are all known. We shall succeed. So who do you think the odds This is I keep thinking like how can teenage girls not like? I think the audience is a lot of different people. I watch teenage girls, it's it's older, it's women that watch it is
little girls in its men who are obsessed with wrestling its gay guys who love the camp of well all right, how much a young! I don't know a guy who's, like thirty seven who didn't watch while with yahoo. It was like such a gateway with a thing which showed her lady ongar a gay way, though right away like a safe thing to watch with? because you weren't watching beauty pageant. I watch lastingly rushing wrestling at strong women because the great job I enjoyed working with all of you, I enjoyed saying your lines. Was there any problems? Anybody with me to germany problem no, no problem. I really I also away but there's a couple delightfully. As I said, I like to think didn't like having his leg only Man in the room kind of china as a genuine like a lot, and I was no longer there was no level. I use be that the male consultant,
question about what I found a man in my own area under what do you mean, but I feel like I've lost my head, I mean not because you came in, but I've been around only women for so long. I don't even remember at being a man is like most funding has won the first time with. I didn't want to your script, I knew you were kind of ready to take the fight a little bit like what what's when's windsor problem going to happen, sir, and then there was, I was which episode was at first. When I met her, there was some things, whereas I can. I do. I guess, but then it came round to wear like yours was why was I find I threw it through and one ball episode. One ball you ve got me on that on the animal, and now it's probably gonna be cut netting anyway. Why that is It goes, but I mean, three was was a long haul for me that which one was that it was go to the party.
now moved about all right says: three are always heart, like episode, three, as always the hardest, and my experience yak as I feel like you got the pilot. The pilots dine when you start than ever totally managing authorities hanging on anything that is not at all, and then you really like now it's a show, and that is what will take you through the season. Will you actually the only one like I dunno, if it's a confidence thing or not but like there was, you're. Always writing jokes. You know- or like on iq, maybe try like they re maritime, like that, and I like, and we do it and then and then you elton will you be like putting wishes to react with the truth? Is I actually don't have so much covenants and written word, I only know how things until I am. I you're always like when you want to play as you are always giving out, and I would like to do that and we will fight and yell at each other. Well, we worked together by the way, together together. Really,
we're talking about that now, but not for a long time. Yeah really, you guys were like tight and you do place best friends, oh really yeah. We have. We do stuff. Meaty stuff you, how many are those plays? Have they been produced? Yeah yeah, published there are there we wrote a play. He called the nose maker's apprentice, chronicles of a medieval plastic surgeon which is as easy as it sounds, the ancient art of nose making and we wrote one about a brothel in turn of the century, Chicago called the sporting life and we've turned into a pilot shopping around with really music off a musical. He s got no. This is not about the organization, everyone. Just fighting. yeah
Well, you never know it's a big landscape. Now yeah, I see so I'll pick it up. She says hot place to get some money I heard nabisco is getting into the oh really no, but you see that anything's possible. How are you guys? hopefully it's all gonna we're going to do more hopefully will be together for many years. Many life spaces nature tied at fun. I that was rachel shukert nick jones, sasha, Rothschild the writers room at glow and they did a great job, I mean you saw their work, they did it, they did a great job. So
carly, match liz flay hive. These are worthy. pretty seasoned writers, the two of them. Or before they got to add to our group. oh gorgeous, ladies of wrestling, play high wrote on nurse jackie homeland. She was a playwright that he may know her plays from up here and there The madrid are two of her shows her plays carly and she wrote for weeds nurse. Jackie Orange is the new black and she's. A playwright who wrote to all hail her, came Gordo and len asleep in vinyl seasoned riders in at least two disciplines, and they created the gore ladies of wrestling, the show that I am on, and this is a me talking to them here in the garage, a it.
if he gets nervous in front of microphones, have you never I've never done this before I've never done this, and I don't think I like the sound of my voice, Oh my god, I site your site. I have talked to the other writers about you, guys specifically at length and how difficult you were to work with, and I think we should just address that before it hit hard. So all right Let's let loose flay hive carly. We mench the? U r. Why don't you know? I'm said up like this, so you is created and were the show runners of glow, which on which was good good experience for me? How is it for you guys? It was pretty idyllic erin. I feel like getting through making the first he's out of your first show, and I only
ride. Once one did you cry when trump one year actually does not deny it everything value of our those who today answer yet none of us really working women for everyone just sort of what we have now everyone. Everyone does slowly crumbled. Disbelief in horror and we're heading its nineteen, eighty five onset too so do I like we were grayish reading back to where we actually were setting the shell already sunny is one we when we pitch the shell. I remember we kind of started with thy will we're on the verge of having our first female presence we literally said this is a great time for women. There were about to elect our first female president right by their shall so our aid so tell me how like, where did you guys know each other from not working together on a show, but from how we at in new york, we were both at a writers group at ars Nova, which is as off broadway theater and they started a writers group for a bunch of playwrights
I heard about this talk to somebody else who is in? That was stephen carom in that you did not hear me. I don't use not an hour later hour had we were the first year and it was highlighted on our show. Nick Jones and rachel should cover it with us or add but well on the memorandum is mary weather when Manuel miranda was in it, then he would riff on the piano when I think nick brought into play, it brought in a musical. He brought in a musical called little building yeah and he's like. I read this musical, but it has no music and we're like well. How do we read it and lend it was like well I'll, just get on the piano make stuff up and we all improvised. He played an airport and we all just improvise. songs and arias. Then we had my shitty play afterwards and I like The word bad night of breath was like we're: u reading the whole player just parts of it, it's I think all broadened snippets of thing that weren't finnish and it was also like my jovius dumbest play about Sally struthers, like it send and in n right after lin manuel
harley quinn now by van hide in the guy that it was a great put mean they gave us in a free baron pizza twice a month and we all hung out there and it was just like a place that we can actually be. You know it was more enough stuff, yeah and like we would, even when we weren't there I was like I need to read this pilot. Can I have the space to do it and they'd we'd bring people together? They were just very supportive of their people and they still are. And did you guys you didn't write together, though now never will this end. Did you write whole place yeah? Then they were produced, yeah our? How would they receive what was your first point of my first pay is hot from up here and nova was the first producer on it and then it sort of outgrew their little space, and then we did it at manhattan, theatre club in seven: seven o eight, and is it done now? It's done It's a lot there a lot of young characters. It's done now like re, like sometimes regionally, but a lot of colleges. he's a year. You have a french is book our bud
That was why we shot a scene than the pilot that was our biggest there There are various location. Here's a second issued its annual friend, it's gonna, be thrilling. Is that was the same with that In glass yadda we're very precise about what place when the background we know we were not presented, more peggy has shed light, take out poster down, take those plays off. We want these place. Every year like we made set deck insane removed, whole shelves of plays, we were nightmares and what was your play? Big boy, my first players called all hail. Hurricane Gordo, it was in the humanity, has twelve new plays. I had an eye it was going fantastically, and then you gotta, we got a review from charles issued at the new york times. That I think was like three sentences. That said something along the lines of I tried to find something to say all right about this play a really actually said that, are you just now? He acted so that they know that's allergic. Like I tried to find something nice to say about twenty three year old colleague, mentioned
whimsical under the bus on the age thing yeah right. You know that so as soon as it is yours performed that one that would actually does get performed? Was that the plan, though, where you guys do like we're going to be playwrights or did you have? Were you young, ambitious forward thinking people that were like well, there's just describing the future yeah. No, whereas it was really watching patty. You really thought theater was going to be the future. Now I mean I, the people that I knew who could support themselves doing theatre had either had a trust fund or taught yeah yeah, rising orange tv. So I'd like light on the trust fund and at an about teaching, so maybe television. So that was heard of what I tried to jump on and off with my first plan c. If there is anything there now, Get back to work, you did you get Jackie you guys I was your first made earthy egg, and then it was my game for seven seas ends, and I grew up on that show which was great cause it shot in new york. It was eighty falco like the shah runners.
Great. Who are the show runners who produce while I'm in la is people like that show, an episode of it. That's I feel, that sometimes I don't know how people find the tyrant either, Oh but I live mean it was a great show to work on and I love. I learned she's gray everything she's spectacular, everybody was like to make a tv show in new york feels like a unicorn how many yeah, how many people were on the staff it a balloon. It was like big at first and then it contracted was like eight people, and then it was six people, and then it went back I began, you know it. It depends on the year and it changed and it started writing out here and then it moved back to new york. So so that was that's what you ve done, your reaction of guys and nurse jackie and now land for a minute and then created glad you did went for a minute yeah. I did drama for a minute. It was crazy yeah, it was a shift like what happens with the difference I mean I went from being great at my job to being terrible at my job. That was the biggest shift, but they were very
call me, I mean I got, you know, produce something in berlin. Come in for half a season, they let me create a finale. It was the collaborative than comedy writing just different. I mean like the way you have to break like I never broken an action sequence before and that was that means in the tunnel, and then these guys are. You know these guys are here, and this information is here and we've got to get all these people in it. Just it's really there and they're they're good at it, but they're really rigorous and pain stake, then rigorous as the action on screen in writing process mentally river is rarely rigorous, and you know you can't come in with a negative delight or like this delightful thing. That meeting blossom in your story is just very poetic, no where's the gun, but they have. But I had to give a note, which was also may be the last time we do this, because they can we just let that gun up higher
we can see it like I'll, probably never give them. I don't know I might lose my shit massacre ale in a global, had no idea that now we're gonna have to have you your young girl with gunnar regarding the rustling sequences. Yes, actually they are, I mean, that's the closest, I think I'll idea, very beautifully choreographed. I found myself and I say it all time. It was like watching a ballet of some kind of found it to be moving that very I, as theatre people. We only exclusively talked about the wrestling in terms of dance, korea, where I told you guys, when we got in there that that it felt like a stage that them is definitely a stay glared circles like a sacred space. They devolution I dealing you know when you're in it yeah yeah, so I where'd, you go, you wrote your for plays and then we'll have actually the first play Another playwright, rollin jones, who is working on weeds at the time, came up after came up to me after I, and so I'm working on weeds. I think Genji would love this. Can I pass her your play?
and until then I hadn't even thought about t v, to be honest, like I was living in the bubble of this, could work I was gonna juilliard at the time you were. I was as a playwright as a playwright S. Fancy It sounds really fancy and then really you just meet once a week for three hours and feel bad. that's great what it right did you get knighted I think united too early, like I think I hadn't really found my voice. I was just so. I had never studied I am so. I felt a little bit like a fraud while I was there. Could they didn't know plays the now well, but I was getting out just at the moment is getting really excited about them it'd be like I'd, come into school and be like? Have you guys heard of this guy tennessee Williams? He's yeah he's got some shit there. And I didn't really know shakespeare and, like the actors, would get so excited over shakespeare and I'd be like I'm sorry. I just can't understand these plays expert, I'm so confused. Why you guys are so excited
of day biggest problem is drifting and then once you drift for five minutes and shit This is all pointless I also urge the understanding it to begin with. I have premise problems to you like I can't get on board and lodging you start on winding a friend s. We're done like king lear, like I just get so pissed at that first seen aren't like white like who starts a play by saying like who loves me the most like live down. I don't care, but was only just started a presidency that we asked a very relevant is a very relevant play with envy. Moreover, be the sort of angry ambition of aging people is: why were in the mess? Were I've had this conversation that there are five? I bet over everyone, and I took this one class at school, where I was an opera glass and she said anytime, you're not enjoying opera walk out. Preserve your ability to live in the future by just sparing yourself
the painter. He had never seen an opera way through I've never seen an opera all the way through, but I I applied it to shakespeare so now I kind of like I don't let myself sit there getting angry like if I'm, if I'm connect, in getting it I stay, but then I think that smart, you I mean I do that with my kids. I don't want to I freely during its. If I leave an idea, this is not working for me, you guys are boring. Maybe take it up. A notch. Do some on an exciting like worth. Mommy, embarrassing that and we want to do in a bar. None of drama can't be a shortage of drama with kids, two right. I've got here and now you have one in your stomach. I do yeah and a month yeah. I have you excited the other great yeah good sounds raided, confused, anxious confused. What do you mean? I think it's because I've been in denial from most of the month of this pregnancy.
Waiting while we're unsaid, finally, learn strapped, etc. And then I went to that burthen class. They show you the eighteen minutes, video of gambling amount and you're like that. Just mathematically that doesn't I don't know how women do it it, indigo is just like just go to the hospital and tell them to just get it out as fast as palace. I think that's fine, that's what my mother did. cut a right out yeah. Well, I don't need to be a tier yours, I haven't, did you where you do yours, regular, reg, or oh, my god, vagina, so both of 'em. So what do you tell her to do? What's the advice you're getting from your town? That's the good one. Even she keeps telling me like it's one. It's one day if you like, if our own forget about them one day life. It's me one day. It's like your! What it's like, would you get to focus on the wedding or the marriage playwright, abate, the birth or the life of the be one day, it'll be what it is. You hit a threshold of pain where you just transcend. It's called the ring There's a name,
I learned that from what I remember I did a lot of I I would like have contractions and just hit things rhythmically to like get through it. my husband fell asleep for a lot of my I was like. So how long was that he's got a knife? He was like alright. Well, here we go going to go. Watch the great british baking show. That's good that will run to that at some point. During the season the child will have slipped out, yesterday I go working, there was a whole area seen what was it? What what's that monty python movie? I don't remember what it was, but there's just a woman, you're washing dishes, there's nine kids around in one just falls out of her she's like here's another one it was? It was the meaning of life. I think you're both riding on these different shows. But you knew, each other and then what
what how does it evolve? Where do you make this decision? Well, I had I had moved up in the ranks on nurse Jackie at the creators had left, and then these other eat pizza to come in, and then I got promoted to eat pie and got to help them hire the room and one of the first people I ran after it was carly seemed like I get carly in this What would she working you? Where you were not thy right, which media, but this ought to be poor weeds after afterwards. So your point by sir, you don t a maiden three years of weeds, then I was taking a year off tried some plays. Then I did nurse Jackie. Then I did orange. Ok, so you my heart, and I get it. I guess you're like for tv as I mean you do like you. I said I oughta stuff here, he really has that he had your heart set on being a big playwright huh, not even a big playwright, there's just something romantic being in new york and writing things known whatever readers yeah romagna, your anger, almost ireland, I find theatre like this rituals special space that I can't let go of in terms of
I'm someone who is and that's the that's, the closest place, spirituality have fun, I kind of find it. Do you go. I go all the time mean it's. The one thing I miss the most about new york is, I think I see like three plays a week at least in new york when I'm there and really yeah. Well, she lives in, ten, but it's like you can just do that. Then. I know that this very breaks, my heart, what I miss in right now, I like, as I got older, even maybe when I was younger. I was sort of like good because, like I dunno, if I can, you see so many dads, you have to put up with a lot of shit to get to the good step. But then I feel like the good stuff is so so much better in our late magical yeah! It's just! I feel I dont want to feel bad. Yeah like when I see better. It's not sort of like this sucks. Wolf you're trapped you're entering that you can't leave yet because sometimes you literally are yeah. There's like four bad play. I literally try to go across the street and go to the movies and like eat as much candy and popcorn be like fuck, you theater, I'm having so much fun being entertain. I can eat
I could I'm very moved by it. He and I would go more. Maybe if I lived in new york at this age I would go to do yeah and it's it's six, its very human something about someone? Maybe I can see seeing people like the actual spirit come out of their mouth and seeing them shuffle around you hit the boards. It's exciting and being rehearsal is kind of the best I mean I like having plays perform, but I love personal rim tire timely that works and differently to hear what? No I gotta whites. That's why it's so essential and why was always considered essential is theirs. A real humanity to it that the power of people on stage we are own voice to move stories in an elevator is like it. It's amazing it is, but I feel like I get asked the thought like callously print t v different and they inform each other. When you work on both- and I I find t v very human too, and mostly because you can use a camera to get up in someone's face and really see, We have yeah a it's a different type of humanity, but I
I see you're saying, but I'm just the very landmine and very kind of visitors. See how you you you your engagement with it can't is your decision, whereas a play mere gave him with is pretty present. You may be drafting yes, but you know there's someone demanding something of you asked age, whereas a tv I'll time. Muted yarkand mute the guy right. We also hear me the people in the bathroom, after your play, talking about which I actually kind of like I used to go now. I got the second act. employees. Are you going Has anyone done that where the first Is it that way, and then this entire second act as the bathroom that the matter be mad art, so she's, a nurse jackie, you hired her yeah and then we did that for security reasons, and then at the end, then we just started talking
I mean we loved working together right and then we will have a road together. We're just gonna work together well in a room here and it just sell organically fun. Sultans word word: the concept come from yes, I was watching this documentary. It felt insane that this world of means wrestling in the eighties hadn't been explored. The at I get hit a lot of themes and places we wanted to go. the glow documentary about badass, weird I do, but I don't think we'd ever talked about maybe going back into the eighties and looking at like what was life like for women in the anyway, I saw this insane thing. I can this is on maternity leave has hung with my colleagues. We are here, so I need some stuff to do. We watched it within thirty seconds were like we should work on this. I think letters we sending to that day.
I sent genji an email. It was like. I was like liz. Not even a pet now has a one line. Email I was like. Do you want to make a tv show about women's wrestling in the eighties, and I think her response was just yes yeah. Basically, like went away for a you know, we had to deal with like the rights and and looking into that. But then we just went away for almost a year and worked on the pilot and then kind of how to make it our own and get into the story and rewrite million times and we break it a million times Wilson and nothing. We also we bosnia, nothing about wrestling and also didn't like wrestling. so tat s a wild, a kind of find are are away. And that felt on us, but also kind of embracing the insane and in that way and was through the personalities of the women in a way I think, on a meta level like we, we chose us. We chose us pacific show about women who knew nothing about wrestling who became wrestlers, so we could kind of go on the journey with them, as they figured out like what the hell this
Anyway, now so that the premise being that it was put together as a tv show clearly yeah that that help set alight, yeah and then like there's something about being on set for me. the outfits and I was conscious and awake. In the eighties. I graduated high school in eighty one, so I'm I'm already like twenty three when that's happening here, and they were so like if you guys played it so straight, and it wasn't campy other than the nature of it. Essentially, that was a big part of it to not overplay it. To just play it straight: while we have the ring, which is this heightened campy space, so then the the fun of the show seems to be finding how to use the ring verses, real life as a way to We to casually deal with these fashion is difficult because it was so just casually or women did, with their hair just to
In the morning a heads department heads we talking about wanting sort of like dusty, realistic, late, seventies and eighties. What felt like you weren't being bombarded. I like neon and studs and stuff like that, because we went through a lot of our old pictures too, so that we would make sure we were the pastels were. a nervous area. The cloth, Beth Morgan called it her coral dream just like a real, don't like there days like? Did anyone think good? india, oh yeah yeah, the crew was so amazing and respectful. There are a lot of women like you know, leotards, and they were. They were very, very cool, but I remember I got a text one day from Christian sprang, our dp. That just said you know I just Checking with you. There is a lot of nipple showing right now, it's just a little cold in here. So I wonder of maybe we turn down the easy like me, you now from the beginning,
like one of the things that attracted as to the show us how uncovered we were with women in bathing suits, you know wrestling for mostly a male audience like that discomfort is where we in writing. I want you to become too ball They mean they look amazing, but also I gets both exe and empowering at the same time, and it should never be just one and wrestling is like attracting repel for us to fuels to me that what was going on and sat with real time them learning and then building these relationships and also doing this ballet of wrestling and these the in creating these personas was happening. in know both in reality and on screen. It's why we plan the first season to go so slowly and to reflect the actual learning process of how long it would take to pick up these bs and to even understand that
like the inner logic of what a wrestling matches. I think there was a day on sat where they were four weeks into training. And it occurred to travel or trainer. He was like If you know how wrestling match ends- not a single person raise their hand, and we realise, of course, that wasn't these two any of us like We would only like to know how you went and none of the writers do either did you knew that there was a script? We will was scripted, but in terms of just like physically how it works. So my account now that counter like how do you know when it's done? Unlike what does that I wouldn't know you're too much older is needed, touched the ground like known, told us that why they taught us, I mean we would begin and we would- and it was great as we would actually go and watch them- learn rotten train over the house like the other thing I say is right: how did guys when kind of like Did you know how that relationship would go me and allison, because that turned into something you don't know what I mean honestly was.
A lot of it was like. We had stuff in the script that You know we new sort of the primary arcs of a lot of those of our main characters, but I feel like it's also stuff that when you see you know, I mean it was like heavy vibey. You guys were how great you were together, how great she and Betty together I mean that yeah we definitely just, but I think we had hoped that there would be some type of a connection. We just didn't fully know what kind of connection it would be It was the one with me and son is kinda hard. It is, and it's like touching touching somehow fatty in character out she's. She had afore, I guess she's real forth, you re as an enemy. We have known for a long time cause betty. As you know, in the theater world and now she's done readings of my plays, and then she was honours Jackie and so we sort of seeing what she can do and now I feel it she's like
I'm excited to unleash the world. So what was the casting process like in tell me about me because, like I'd like to know, because I got that thing in anticipating doing anything. I was doing things they anything not. We do not even bring you into a room. I know it cast. You of. It was, but I was told you looking people here. What do you mean there we weren't looking at people in a little like I got a script ears of this, while the health on your second will tell you what I said. I think somebody my managers office was just going through scripts, found it and then gave it to my manager and then the he gave it to my agent and then they sent it to me and it was, I don't even know if I got the whole script or sides and I'm just having a day wasn't looking for. Thing has actually just download. My show was again take it to a year off now. Stand? I was like I'm done for a while. That will show you the end and they sent me the script like. Oh, I know this guy. Ok,
I could do this anymore than even the idea. No, you didn't you ever. I don't have it. I knew was Genji to begin with. I would put it together, gsm shitty at that. So, my guy I do this guy, so I went down to the glasses place. We wanted to know what yeah spectacles up and those glasses they. I was part of what I immediately decided that I needed aviators. I out why some sort aviator glass, because I knew then in times they were timeless, and that day There is no way I was going to find fashion glasses from eighty six. I would even able identify him by new aviators, never change and that this I was going to wear aviator glasses and then I lacoste shirts again, I the glasses, a deterrent. Did he bar, and I just borrow the ones ran back laugh. They were certainly like of yellowish buddy with measurement for data. Was this shape nine only ladys down their gamma rays? Eighty ninety so and then I actually own the shirts and again I'm like these have been the same for decades. So that was that
and I had the woman who my trainer Who'S- an actress really wondered. Who was reading with you yeah? I just I can you know, cause she's. You know she goes on the auditions and stuff and she's a cute and good and but usually she's, just my trainer. I work I were there and I'm white he wanted to breed with me and that that would at least when some professionalism to it and you sat behind a desk which was, in my as I sat at that table in my in my part time assistant shot three of them and they decided they sent you one and that was that but they told me that, like I didn't know where you were in the casting or whether you would consider, he bore you're at the your wits end, but I was told that they're not looking a people that I was not. I could not get in a room. That's what I was told we we were, we were not thirsty or not yet seeing people that we liked enough to see. around for that we were so used on. Working lay genuine who did the casting is a genius and she has these instincts that are so kind of out of love field and so kind.
there's no jen, since she was a kid she told us she sent to us and like watch this now, and we were like well, alright, yeah. I was not expecting anything like it's funny or we can act can play in. person or can he be, some version and then we should I was so simple answers like he is the guy. I will again to night. It was like us here like shit. This is undeniable therein. Then we didn't think we because we and then we showed it to the writers to remember slick. We had the really you guys you gotta watch those and then we really. Oh and then, when we would start to talk about the character, we started to talk, like you yeah, like pitching.
if you're already writing it for him. We've got to give them apart and then I remember we sent the video to netflix and they said their only question was like: can he move around he's behind, not even if he cannot as yet another matter can't we write the part so he's always like that's. The problem is that it is not an integrated performer will to set him down its total. That's fine, but it was an eye. Well, I mean I feel like that was particularly because it was suddenly network can be such a big part of the show. Seo even have you in a room we just like. Well, this feels it's the guy. Oh, I wish I guess I was sort of like a tape. Are you go now? Listen when we watch and then I will say that kept happening over the course of the season rise. Like I mean he's, gonna be great I mean who noted is ranges like he's got his luck,
you feel is why resolute on board from the day, while you, the beauty of you, rendering anyways I like, he will be, grounded and a real human, no matter what an iranian motorway running it. I've got it a great bullshit meter and like a beautiful ability to just make anything sound organic and in the moment and true, but then you consistently consistently surprises in ways that I feel like we would go back to our seats and be like oh yeah, like that's that was so powerful. That wasn't even meant to be. the felt that happening. How, like I in the link? That was the right thing. Why think you got me good time, because I just done for seasons of my show. So I I started marin, I don't. I was not great, but I knew how to be on set now, and I knew- and I knew I wanted to be relaxed in I have it all on my shoulders, so I was able to focus on just that guy in not worry about other shit, which was in a kind of tricky. I still me
did need to near video village just to noticed like he's three closer to video military, but you are also so empathic toward us, because you knew what it was like to run a shows. I feel like every time we can put a concrete, not polite, drained out of as the student uk because they caught. It's nice when somebody asks you you're, like barely standing yeah, it's rough, it's hard yeah, we had each other, so it was hard for me to like it. I I think that you guys were everybody pretty open to things like suggestions when it wasn't didn't, seem out of hand and if there wasn't like a a fuckin improv fast cause. I really wanted to do the work from the script, but you know that certain actors, and so you are right or respect for pretty much. I mean that reason. There was great won't because, like The one thing I had my mind if I had any insecurity like in it. I think that, like I, can evolve as an actor after talking to Martin landau in here and getting some acting lessons, but I know it.
Be present. I know, and I knew that the answer for me was gonna, be if it's not me it's on the page, so let it be, and there was a couple, a bit that law worked out. There is a couple of beats it I added, but you know that with the writers, and there was conversations around it, and there was one moment where I don't want to Something is nick. You tell it as I could do this way and is like it wasn't a fight, but he's like nine nokia and then we told you try to mind when he's like. Ok, so now it's do it the way that the totally The latter only on letter. Allow don't trust from you, though, like you don't know who we are right now. Why, like that like like. I wasn't that I wasn't afraid of it, because It wasn't on me. Get united me with your character in a way and
yeah. There were certain. There was only a couple of times where MIKE and we went over it, whereas disarray, I dunno he's going to say that I just didn't feel right and we just it didn't matter like we, we fixed it yeah. That's I mean, I think, that's a big part of what I I mean. I think playwriting prepares you for a tv and a great way, because you're you're in that rehearsal room with actors and you're working like that and you're trying to work it on the page first before you go off and rewrite something you're really trying to figure out. If you know, if, if it's the scene that needs work, you know what that work is, and it's a station- and you know you have to people to have it faster- I think with tb could write or in the middle of huge everything. That's exciting thing, a lot it yeah but thou. But I will not be precious yeah, but assume that, like it, the funny, the amazing thing was because of the script and then just because I was emotionally available, you know, and I knew you know where that guy was that there's a guy was being that the way the relationships evolved or you're just happened with the different women it's really kind of interesting to me, like
has clearly you listen and I love each other in some weird way. and that I a lot big brother. You know like, like she so good, it's sort of like you're just doing this because for the show yeah you see. You know she definitely had my number. You know what I mean onstage and off it a genuine emotional relationship. Somehow, then, we could really admit nowhere. Why daily? There is genuine emotion, though scenes and you guys, founded and yeah, took it. And I didn't I hated it when it didn't happen. I d like if we do it a hagen. Unlike I didn't know, it was an open another and then there is all everyone was different than with the whip. one for me. I had to sign it, Did anything on my ones is going to happen, and then you made me show my butt yup and I had to walk around set with a sock on my dick yep that that one
I remember, having a conversation with you and you're like so what what is it like? So we just wanna have a conversation about nudity and you're like well seems fair right. It did seem fair. I was thrilled dusting, maybe we too hasty or living in one of their economies all the time. I can't do that. I think the ass was about. As far as I could go, though it looks great. My ass looks. Good ass looks good. I about the one thing that I'm I'm, that in retrospect that that I think we we should have more. Can we want to do that? Is it? Can we do those kind of we're getting notes now presented? I think of ignoring the mess more, my guy like the one. The regret I have about the whole season is that the period yeah yeah, what math like one, when she leave where I'm at the door there should have been beat around guy like cause. It's a mess. and my guy so involved with sort of like there's ever sort of loaded cause. My asked us out through said becomes right. There's an ass out. You know
it would have helped you too. If we poured fake blood on you, I feel like yeah me well now that we know you're open to it. Yeah, period was always very polite on on it happens. You know what you're going to do. Yeah, it's a very it's, a very gotta watch him. So all right! So what's going to do we do. We know about another season. Now we don't. We don't have I'll. Tell you but they've been very I mean I gotta say like that's the cool thing about. I mean I've. Only ever I've only ordered showtime and netflix the great thing about the way we've gotten to make the show, be it like Genji support and having you know that sort of a creative like sounding board and buffer, but we have so much freedom there. It's pretty astonishing and genuine enthusiasm, which is pretty fun cause. Even when we rigidly pitch the shows sitting in the room was the sky tat, be a sally mere who was from the family programming department heard there was a show been pitched about glow. He's obsessed with glow, got himself
and invited himself to the patch because he heard it was about glad I have to be in this year and he's our creative contact at netflix and he someone who is so genuinely giddy and you such a cheerleader, which is rare, I think an economy and makes the whole process. I feel more human and yeah felt the was really kind of open and good, and there was no weirdness really ever and everybody's very excited now, if guys in your head. You have a second season heads right now, you have stuff, we we have a cause, so many characters are unexplored. To many I mean we've just scratched the surface and basically feels like there are so many characters we want to delve into. There are so many weird there's weird shit about wrestling weird shit about the eighties. We've got to kind of laundry list of things we want to shove in, but do we have the kind of the shape of season two
yeah. Not yet. I think we're here because that's who well that's good, because there's always a that's one thing I learned about doing tv. It's like you always assume, like the geniuses have, like all eight seasons, mapped out, but you don't dont mass of equally gives after respond to like what happened, and also I mean just cutting the first phase and was really informed worms of how the wrestling, what we want from the wrestling and how it shot and how it came together, Another question but like in your mind, though, do we just pick up right after that? First match kind of deal We just going back to sorta like that well now, let's build from there, we noted the time go by thing. That's always wear white. When my shall I could do like it this year, waiter women we go either way. We have some hear arguments for both sides: ok it was great work and with you. Why do you feel good about what we ve done here since then, fun exogamy marked. We feel
looking forward to document is really an honor me like very cool, with the dad's school to their. Like we heard, I heard mark marin say your name in his pocket. Can I give our railways yeah. We got to expect that silver lake dads, I will here we go rang through talking. there. You go our final episode of glow related interviews and I think I was informative. I hope you writers got a lot out of that and I hope you people enjoyed the process making Ah such dig it out too. I too hard to play guitar. Maybe I well, I got from my airport in my ears: are old
you're getting old, the EU vegas rice?
boomer lives.
Transcript generated on 2022-08-01.