Alright, let's do this, how are you what the fucker is, what the fuck buddies, what the fucking nears, what the fuck makes? What putting I mark mare- and this is my podcast wtf- is it going hey. Here's a reminder to all of you. In los angeles, we are doing our only Ella book talk and signing this Sunday october. Twenty ninth at seven p m: that's one need only at the annan, jerry moss theatre at the her about board educational, village and santa Monica, and if you haven't seen me in britain and do our thing you will enjoy it we'll talk about it. for the points, but we also talk about behind the scenes stuff from the pod casts some see It's that you don't know about. We take questions from the audience and will sign your stuff. Bring your be of waiting for the punch of your ready. Have one or you can get one with your ticket go to live

Ella a dot org to get tickets or go to the tour page of wtf pod dotcom that sunday october, twenty ninth live talks ala, dot, org or wtf pod dot com. Also, another thing fans, friends, country people. Our global peep every by international friends. Brian r Jones as a new batch of cat mugs. If you want to get a cat mug, just like the ones, I give my guests Brian r jones dot com to get yours, they go on today at noon, eastern nine pacific Always go very fast, so do that I'll tweet that she had to write I'm a little embarrassed willem dafoe This here today will m d, foe. I talked to you know it's hard when you talked to a guy about acting and about a long career in acting and but think we did all right. Meanwhile, em and here he brought up a movie if called light sleeper

which is a schrader film, a paul schrader film who I'm a bit. best with sometimes polish raider servant. Combined dark school in mind that that auto focused man, he wrote taxi driver raging bowl. But we were talking about some other movie- called light sleeper- that I had not seen him some weird freak coincidence. This happened a couple of times. like I'm on a plane, We fly american and I usually fly business because I don't have children, I don't have a wife. I have some money. Can I spend it? Please, thanks I am given to charity yo. My five business deal. So yes, in their classic collection or for whatever reason I don't know a light. Sweepers is there. I mean paul charade or film maiden, like one ninety two and- and I talked to him about it and I were seen it before

and I watched it, and I just forget- I just forget that there is a tone to certain films there's a tone to films that take their time. You have some things are dated, but people who are are tourist, who have a very specific view, point of view films and angle and the other meticulous about what the script points are and what the story points are what it's about yet, sometimes it's it's not satisfying as You know a movie that is fun Manipulative- and I forget that patients that you need to afford I don't have a call it an art film, but an older, independent filmer, any independent film there tell you maybe you should enjoy quickly. Also, it's it's ninety ninety two phone. So the fashions in the tone of what's happening- r, r, o- little dated, but how surprised at whose the damn movie willem dafoe place

sky, John latour who's, a drug dealer, susan sarandon is his main. You know supplier, Dana Delany, woman, who was fucked up on drugs and used to go out with the with the Williams care- her, but she got clean and then he sort of stars run into her again David Klein and greg. character. Actor is this other drug dealer Mary Beth, heard play the psychic reader victor garber, yeah the guy who designed the titanic. Is this german? A ristocrat like wealthy drug dealer, weird sex guy samara. rockwell? Well, isn't it for like two minutes Jane Addams, a child is in it, as David, do any sister and David spade place is cared got. The illogical coke had disguises jacked on coke, and rambling on about god and metaphysics it's sort of odd to see it after and also watch the meyerowitz stories, and I thought that Dustin Hoffman

was great in Ben stiller and adam Just do a movie reviews, I guess, where I or tremendous in both the years torment it, jewish men with a difficult father's, I'm assuming. We're able to really dig deep and make that that fuckin, film noah baumbach it's his best movie, no doubts on netflix and if you want to see destination and he makes everybody run no ex everybody run and it's interesting because I like, when that happens, because I'm in the graduate Dustin Hoffman is a cross country. Runner for a car so he has a lot of him running in the graduate and he's got a very specific run, and I and I can only assume nose like I wonder if feast got that run in him and any he did it the same, unlike like king of comedy, where the iron jerry Lewis, must have been in his late fifties or sixtys. When

it's scorsese had him in that movie and he does a long scene where he's running from a fan, and it's just this crate easy jerry lewis run running is funny. And and tragic yes, the activity of it so day. I think I I could just avoided telling you my shameful story. Okay, alright I'll, tell you about my shame, because maybe it will maybe it will help others, but wait wait before I do that. Let's, let's share a couple of emails of success stories. Subject: thanks to you and Nikki glaser mark and nikki with me, new book out, I thought I would share a moment that had a big impact on me, I am in my mid forties, were struggling with a marriage that was falling apart. Feelings of about. My issues is apparent. Looking to infidelity to provide a quick fix and make me feel but only feeling, worse and finally, secretly going to a therapist

then struggling to really understand what was happening. My wife's started joining me in therapy and hope that if we could get to the root my problems. We could to the root of our problems, but I was not digging in not trying to really understand why I was the way I was then Nicky. Swift, my world upside down, quote me, beer, your mom doesn't love you unquote and the next in a city interview on the deputy pod cast nicky opened my eyes to what it meant to be truly honest with yourself to be o k. Thanking those things about your pain, it's who are supposed to love you and confront them head on, and now those things affect everything and everyone around you. I had heard mark talk about parents with others, but Nicky was so direct, so brave it was. The first time in my life, my walls came down. I was honest with myself. I was honest with my wife and kids. I accepted my parents for who they are and changed my approach to dealing with them. My marriage is so much better. Now we talk about difficult things, we listen to each other and we are your parents and fixing some of the mistakes. We made along the way this wouldn't have happened. If I didn't fundamentally change

doing in that moment, listening to Nicky was jolt of reality. I needed like she was talking directly to me. I have probably listened to that part. interview ten times since the first usually when I'm having doubts about myself or feeling guilty after talking with my parents. It gives me the confidence to be true to myself to trust my feelings. Thank you and let you know there is a special place in my heart for both of you sincerest thanks, Todd, hey man. Glad to help out- and I will tell Nicky I, I will give this to Nikki. I will show Nikki here we go subject line hi doctor Mccain studies marin. Last time I sent you an email. I was around ten days sober, it's been about ninety days now, without pulling up a bottle and having a chair and damn, I feel good, I went from living with my parents, barely maintaining any semblance of life to having my own bottom floor in an estate house.

Back to school and working w tee ass, pleased talking riding with your guess: I've always helps to know that everyone goes through. She had neither maintains burns outer, chooses sobriety talking matters Simon all right, so they go happy story. So, okay, I'll tell ya. There are few guys working on the house. Are there were few guys working? the house and I and I had to put so my yeah, I got a guy works for me. Occasionally frank here, come over and hang out by the dudes finished up the the hammer. It's on in the dude stuff, outside yeah. I could do a course I could but I you know, have time and you know, we've they're pros their pros doing some repair work on the home. So what happens is you know they're out there working and

it comes over now you look the way I do Frank looks the way he does. Frank's gotta have mustaches well and he's wearing shorts he's got glasses and you know I got my mustache and I got glasses and not wearing shorts, but I got my. boots on and yeah. I'm like. I don't know when they're going to be here till and I already talked to him and got to see you not to tell him they were doing a good job to find out what they're doing it and then just go, ask him. So he goes out and nazism and then we're both. standing outside and then I take off and I tell franca you know active later you later and then you know the say say by the guys working there and I don't know if you know where this is going, but I wasn't happy about it, but you know I drove away thinking like man, those guys all those guys, those guys out front they they think I'm gay. They think me and frank. That house together and we're lovers and we're just gay is, as gay can be and I don't know why it affect me- next in in this was

a couple of things that happened in my brain and I inadequate what it indicates about me, I thought well if they think I'm gay they're gay fuck, my house up somehow house up. So then, then I'm in zone of like well, this probably how gay people feel alive. I was being judged. I dunno if these guys thought anything I'm making all this up in my head. I dunno. I I think I'm not. I don't believe I'm homophobic unless it's me, who's, gay and gay, but I was home phobic because I was scared of people thinking I was gay and what they would do and I imagine that is some sort of twisted empathy, but the sad part is I sort of had to struggle, without it was. I wasn't going to happen but like with driving back and somehow declaring to these three guys- working on my house who might not be thinking anything that I wasn't gay for some reason just so they wouldn't fuck up from my house, and they would think that you know may be 'em. You know it just it that see. That's the tricky part, that's a shame.

part. I did not. You know, drive back to my house and stand out in front where the guys Working like hey, you know I got have a girlfriend or I so it's not what you're thinking I just sort of sat with the reality that I'm okay, being gay, I'm okay, if me and frank, are gay to those guys. I accepted it. I came out to myself in that moment it in terms of what those other people were thinking went through a lot went through a lot in that few minutes, driving away from the work being done on my house, it's a willem dafoe is It's beautiful new movie called the florida project, its now playing, there's a lot of oscar buzz for his performance. I saw it and I thought it was spectacular: the director Sean baker,

did another film that I did not see. I think it was called tangerine and I was sort of pooh poohed it because I was like it was too much buzz about. It was shot on iphone and I was like I'm not buying in everyone said it was good people I respected said it was good, but I'm a I'm a dick. So I got to see that now because this was of a pretty astounding movie, I defer plays a hotel manager, and this is a not even an extended stay hotel, just a shitty tell near the orlando theme, parks, people are living there, you know low income. Poor people are are living at this shitty hotel and there's a sort of a whole little community and ecosystem to it. It didn't we felt like I'm we're because a tone of it. Yet this guy baker shoots very sort of from the happen handheld and its but the issue at this time, because there's a lot of focus on the kids in this film and am I

now. We ve got our own third world right here in this country of of street children and people live in a a compromised situation. Obviously, they've always been here, but this really shines into. The tragedy of having to parent, and in these conditions, but also the sort of relentless joy and answer detachment that children have. Despite the circumstances, is a tremendous balance in the film I mean and william talk about that, among other things, This is me and willem Dafoe. Hmm the you were the last to eight, I have a younger sister. Seventh. Seventh may see so you're, the seventh of eight now seven son, five sisters, two brothers, no Oh my god. Do you know them all

I do I know them all you mean like well, I know their names know their names, but now I guess it's and my parents used to call me Call anyway, like it was like barbara nights in baby don injectable really do the whole run here again, everybody's is packed up and again into it, which, when they really went up and by my mother did that with animals. There were several dogs, a couple of you know, a little insulting now with the animals I mean you should know the difference not in something for people the basic difference between demonstrated patent child. I don't know that I haven't heard enough tat now. So, oh my god, it's like. You really probably didn't, really know your older siblings that well I didn't, but they raised me. They did I mean I remember I was

Some of my early memories are, you know my sister, my oldest eldest sister, going off to college. I was probably I was probably six yeah. Oh really yeah, it's sad man, must be through, but awesome I'll go! That's! Okay, because they also, Well, a lot of them for undergrad any weight went to the university of wisconsin, and that was in the nineteen sixties. So when I became a teenager, I used to hitchhike down there and Some of my best experience most format of experiences on that the universe, idea of wisconsin madison campus as a adolescent, oh yeah, hanging out with my couch, thing with you. Let him others insisted tat. They all went there. Seven out of eight yeah, I'm the only one.

It didn't actually and that's a in madison was that was a lively campus. You know up with berkeley and other places. There was a lot of activity and you were like sixteen. Seventeen yuck, you know no? No, I first started going there when I was like you know: fourteen fat, oh wow, it was, it was only one hundred miles away and it's a I got an eyelid honour, yeah, it's an account yeah and it was unanimous interesting to because no kind of growing up in wisconsin, with kind of good well educated eisenhower era, republican Parents, rather than through my see my brothers and sisters get radicalized through their going out in the world the act that a bit had a big fact on why I've talked to us about that is necessary. I mean to have it if you don't have older, siblings, twenty two

you one way or the other into the light of what is interesting and cool. You might be hobbled or, or you may see, there's another world out there a little too late. That writes right, you misled, but then again sometimes you see people that grow up in little town and they can develop in a very full way, sheriff is sure yet of the valuable I get that time right. You know you. I mean everything's, going up the whole social fabric, s coming and going music art power of of creativity, so you were just you, you are able to sort of like go and see that you as a thirteen year old, and what do you remember most about what was inspiring well just a kind of questioning?

and brightest and re also also. I remember if this is a kind of funny connection, but I think one of the things that made me start I started making. You know working with small, having got theatre company that was really What started me as an actor and continued for many years started: concept but then more notably in in and new york and with the wish to grope right. But I bet like that stuff in wisconsin. Was it like? A laugh was well, it was it was it having in the respect that we were doing different forms. It was still we were basically working with a playwright. We were still working with. You know, literature of making place, but they were the subject matter was radical in the stagings were radical and we were a in a collective of people that ran a little factories.

And did everything our south zeal was a no form so Joe account up no working so that recently, briefly, that was for like a couple years, but it was now do your parents like. Would your old man do? I was a my dad: was a surgeon, yeah, so never home Never home and my mother worked with him and she was a nurse and she is she. She do. You know We had a clinic and they do the lab and because they they were center of a of a kind of degree, cultural, community yeah, it was a town of fifty thousand that was kind of the hub, so people would come from far away to have their visits. We had him what type of he was gastro intestinal surge in august and very well trained, harvard medical school mayo clinic. You know, but he was a fine he's a country boy, so he really wanted to practice in a hot askance. So these people would come from far away. He'd get called out.

Surgery and my mother would be working the desk sometimes having to you know, calm these people down because they from far away. I don't want to leave so that after wait when it was called out on merchants society and I'd, be there sometimes doing well. I worked as a janitor there, but also I used to do school work this out, and I hear these people cuss out my mother and she take it If all day- and then my father was come, it would comment like he was Jesus Christ. They are never like out nocturne that giving my mother a dirty look and then they'd have their visit and everything was nice again and I always felt bad for my mother cause. She really took the hit that took a huge bullet for this guy to play to lie a year, and that was very much the era where doctors were. the word bigger than life: ya: ya: ya,

it's a good guy. He wasn't a jerk and I think he was he was at you know very moral and and properly a good doctor to bow yeah. But to see that growing up really my mind: yeah yeah to the river then the in the sort of dismissal of of your mom yeah and any nocturnal yeah the service. The sexism Lots of stuff, and how will you go along with him and her YAP, both probably better, Then her because it was one of those doors that we were probably too much alike, so she I would bust my balls a little bit where he was probably more distant. It was more symbolic relationship, but he was very. He was actually he was a disciplinarian and rigid, but we respected each other. So there was a distance, but I there's something

and I love both of them and had no problems. That's great and any are you the only? I tried with her a lot, though yeah. Why don't you got a fight with one of them, yeah cuz? She tried to beast. I think she tried to be a super mom before those things were happening, John's working women. Sometimes she was going to school leaving and she wasn't. She had all these kids, but you know I just want. Man forget it to give up on the mother thing. How do one thing or the other because is brand yourself too and in just face it? So don't pretend like your everywhere. At the same time, I'll write and let us go. Oh, I see so out of fight right around: I like get a ride,

with someone and in in order to be sweet and to try to be a good mother, she'd say no I'll pick you up and then she'd forget and I'd say. Then I'd walk home and she'd say I'd say where were you and she said? Oh man, man and then next time it will happen. I'd, say: hey, it's! Okay, I'll, take rut, no nah I'll pay, what happened again, if that was what he unloaded and and when they shows that flair for drama actor yeah is it, I guess it is, I don't know, I don't know would the idea where they were up and close press and personal laugh? I must walk up on the year on the open I did not act or fashion side of the bed. What did we, the only when they went into like a creative pursuit? now there are the wrong liking, I mean strictly an artist and I would know well they're all professional people, they are all more talented about.

No, they are you know. When we get together, they all sang better, they all dance better. They all act better than I I've got a tenacity. Now that gets you stuck with it. You made a life out of it, something like their their hobby, I'm I'm kind of joking, but yeah. It's really funny that now they're there I mean. I guess I I my hand that way because they want to make it sound like I come from this family of yeah well striving professional. People right, I'm the artists rights not to their all, and they are our creative paper, my my brothers virginia nova. Music. Brother. The lawyer is very clever store, I tell her yeah my he's one of my sis is the nurse air she draws beautifully beautifully

nor I do I do know you mean it is just a day. They were smart enough not to make it a living. Maybe maybe not. I was willing to morrow the eyes and I made got what had I get what you got it god damn okay. So this is a fascinating to me. So you know acting in high school, even before that there was a community theater in my there was a university called lawrence university where I was, and it was private good school here and they had a very good drama department, very good physical space here and in the summertime some community people got together cuz. It was a place of means because there were these paper mill factory, paper mills and there were some yeah rather was some welfare money around yeah? The end

made a young summer theater and they hire me director from new york to come for the season. Direct, you know, and you are howl. The first one I did probably was. I was probably and so are basically trained as a kid by just being in the play: yeah yeah. No it it change, but yeah and in school plays and animal like a lot of kids. When I was little I used to write plays you did yeah yeah. They were always historic. Things are really titles. Like cortez r, sk on rights. it was very short. I always wanted to do the action stuff and by every quite beef up the dialogue and all because I wasn't really interested in the psychology. I was in then stood in the doing. Yeah sure Indeed they do not the show here which came a cropper later yeah. That body would you

Have you done a lot of writing in your life or not? No, not really, I mean no, no, not really so after so the experimental theater in Milwaukee. Like you know, after doing like you know, I would imagine that once you finish high school, he kind of committed to it. Not really. What happened is I I left high school early I was kind of in between things: don't knock what quite what to do with it? join in the army, as we have really on in this isn't amid sixties, relates not on that. Eighty guys is it. This is seventy two. Seventy very you know, I just know there was another world out there out there and wanted to find it so I, in classes at university, where in mat and knowing Milwaukee hook attic as I had a brother in law, are a brother and future brother in law to be that was there

and I stayed at his place and start taking courses and being in place and then these people from this theater theater acts so met in that and said forget school come work with us and how to love you. I love that air then I did that for a why we got picked up by a european producers, so it was exciting because I, like eighteen years old and and travelling in europe with these show and things- and I was saying all these shows from around the world particularly a place called the mystery in amsterdam when he was very well funded, with a real visionary producer. Who go all around the world and select things and just bring them to you like they are like what what type of stuff? Oh everything from spectacle to. You know african dance to

I write opera or eaten oh yeah yeah. It was a flexible space, a modest space, and you know his taste was more towards the avant garde and not traditional theatre, but you never know with this guy and and you've just taken it in and just taken it in here and and turned on air saying, sing, really kind of great performers and really interesting people, and I think that's when you're that at that age you want to be with inspiring people, cool people, a people that are kind of supporting this new education you're. Having sure so, you know I go from middle class, secure guide from a big family, with yeah no kind of track laid ahead of me that I should be yeah and then I enjoy

cast somewhere. I have that security in my head in the sand, in about two social classes and, being you know, living in point. neighborhood, knowing people with dry No problem and criminal now they are ready, and you know I always think of the young. Bob Dylan line in our little boy lost. He takes himself so seriously. He brags of his misery, loves to dive, live dangerously yeah that that was me. You know it's. You want to get dirty sure. Of course you want to get related because dirty feels real yeah. I can relate to that It's absolutely right, so you didn't come upon it authentically, but you can and you could visit it. You were rich and unique. You know there was something down here and you wanted to know the other narrative cause you were up to here with the narrative that was fed to you. Yet by all the the

in our culture that you were living showing. You could see what that was going. It expected a yes, we are yes, so that's where we are and then I just felt I'd loved the people at the X. What, if I had an ambition and I really then moved to new york. I think to be a traditional theater actor. Also. I thought you know this acting thing. I like it yeah and if I'm going to have do something I better get? We get serious, yeah go to mecca yeah, but at the same time I was reading Bob Wilson I was reading, but richard Form- and I was reading a form- and I forgot about those plays. I worked with him of yelled, my god. He used to do a play like every month. Oh he's bees great a lot of things going on yeah yeah, I'm a beautiful it may he is pure theatre, diy, and so is bob Wilson in a very different way than bob wilson with the ladders in the sparse in the minimalism in the operas, and he does lots of death

but I like I've worked with about it of any minute trivial, not your good clank, you, yes, thank you I just remember ladders there, like I've, always had a few he's, got a language. Ok. Serious. He uses that language yeah. I get it and that's part of the pleasure I think I saw Finally, I d do not produce any lincoln center. I think even the lad as many things I worked with him recently. I did too shows a life and death of rain abramovich and us, which was about abroad of it. She was an international anthony Haggerty. Now unknown me, I did the music, it was beautiful, shell, and another show just a two hander with that baryshnikov aboriginal coffin myself, they called the old woman based on a russian writer, that recently yeah recently grey. Even did it at royce hall, which wasn't perfect.

and you, for we were happy to bring it to a light we toward a lot but very low and morocco, which always frustrates mood, because if not the money or right really the interest, I think an idea. It is yet the guard stuff for stuff its provocative and hard to understand seem to do better elsewhere. Well with this first stage, yeah yeah. So what so you would he would we talkin like seven thousand three hundred and seventy four. You go to your truck. I do my little stint in the university in seventy three. Seventy four yeah, then I lyrics to I try to move to new york. Theater ex calls me back to the midwest and then I go to europe with them, and then with one productions or note several twenty seven, I'm in new york for good and I'm intending to be a traditional interact, yeah, but I'm looking around and I keep on finding myself.

Going downtown and I keep on finding myself. You know seeking out those people, I'm raining about. Seventy seven, I'll? Still there? It's all still there it's kind of on the wane little yet you know in so other things like punk has happened to you. It's the and I happened but is still going. I am I an animal tat I can still see the remains at sea. Beach, the JB is around Sarah yeah you're saying you can see tv, you can re, you might go to a party, and you know Where are they run? Around burn may get up and do something. So there was a lot going on and that's that felt like what was happening rather gone around and getting a waiter job and and and auditioning for broadway yeah yeah yeah. You know that was all that was that was kind of a throwback from me. That's what, when the only thing I could imagine until I knew the other world so I get introduced to that world world known I'm a square kid from risk,

and we have a little. You have a little on guard boniface from georgia chaser, but that now the main won't get you on the subway. So where are you and then I run into I basically I am I've just find myself been attracted down. I run. I see the work of the wish to group and I basically I am. say I want to work with you go somewhere. There was in the head and, like you, I thought you were one of the guys who started it. Yeah well, do it it, was born out of another group yeah. We called over foremans group and who is the way that was richard sector and then people that worked with him yeah that was started in like sixty seven old school old school, not know, but no how old school eleven guy right, nobody egg confronting the audience kind of

a better and more on the living fear. Today I join him back. I looked at it, I mean it's it's not same thing. I should say that, but just for you It may be that battle broad's right. Ok, It's not it's not regular place. it's a world of the avant garde, yeah, as political yeah. Okay, so I still start richard man and then there's a group within the group that becomes the womb Groper, the at last led by Elizabeth Lecompte and the principal principal other person is spalding. I also run father Lee how's, Jim clay, burgh, it's it's a group of people and they start to make work as the sidebar to richard and soon all the energy, all the resources and all the interest kind of shifted to them. Die in which also I'll in love with less camped the director. So

my interest and resources? Everything and shifted to her is AL lighted. it already turned At rad I am yeah, I I did hanging out with them yeah and then then spalding and invited me to be in the next page. And that's then I started working with them in a run that lasted twenty seven years. What was that peace? That peace was probably the first one I did was ne at school, but the first substantial one where you know I was really a a a principal performer and maker was point judith. What was a signature like you know, cause I've seen spalding gray several times before he died and I've seen you work or not. I don't think I've seen her on stage. I feel like I've been to the worcester group once, but what was what was that You know what was emblematic of the of the western group's work. Well, you know people you

kind of a misnomer. They talked a lot about deconstruction cause. Sometimes we would use a text like a a classic american play, some text sure and we would use it as a thing play with it and to kind of, I deal with it in our own terms and improvise with it. Not sometimes we change things times when we cut things yeah and there was that it was also a very physical approach. It was very architectural approach, because the first thing the director started out with liz was always the space she thought very spatially, very visually, very architectural lighting and Then she would bring you baxter, someone would bring in a text and we play with it. We found the way to put it on its feet and sometimes we caught it radically, sometimes would change it sometimes with lay.

Over it and then also another thing that I think people that was well, sort of that we were doing as we were incorporating a lot of sound and video stuff ryan kind of non. You know traditional, we weren't hiding it right, I mean, one. The easy example comes to mind in one show we had a knife three year old woman, you know in the show here ass. She could make it all the time. So we put her on

tape and weed. We allowed a tv and we'd play the scene with her on tape. Yeah I mean that's the crudest thing possible, but we were using this technology in a practical way, yeah and then, with time it came, became more as sophisticated and status sized and then even further. I developed now cause they continue to work. They do a lot with ghosting and playing with a mix of tracks outside guiding them and they're performing riffing off the track, that's either in their ears or they have a visual reference for wise, trippy, yeah yeah. So it's it's a very dense performed style, yeah it

beautiful work. I haven't seen it lightly, as I have been around for you worked with them for a while twenty six years, yeah on and off- and I I think I remember when I was it- is it possible that they get a new space in the late eighties or not? We, While we had this small space right called the performing garage regime that still exists yeah, but I think as technology, grow. The playing space smaller and smaller and smaller here and the other thing or the other thing that if forgot dementia, it was real a the people working there every day, yeah and that gave us the ability to show that in progress, and it also gave the ability to bring back old, shows and put them next to no shows haha. So as a real, it was about a whole fabric of work. It wasn't just knocking

doing show like it was a lot, a whole body of work and they kind of had conversations with each other, and that was beautiful for any one. That was really followed the company for a long time with its own world yeah yeah. I'm sure you know we we had a spacecraft form garage up and he got kind of small and economically, it became very difficult. The as we wanted to keep our ticket prices ray in a bowl, and we made our bread and butter through international touring. Ah, but even now, I think it's a struggle and an end through corporate. You know scoring yeah, but damn its. It was a struggle and there's a noose ban is not just a grudge. Not they had the garage, but they they do perform at parishioner coughs, space, ok, the have they had and they have also performance.

At say now that you're residency like a little bit, and that was I stopped working with them like in two thousand and three, which is credible, taunt lung panhandler that but they were daily forum to me around, and you did a lot of that. The international touring with productions with the worcester girl yeah, and they were we were probably sometimes. We was three four months out with a show that you put together in new york and yup, take it out yeah, and then it got to the point where a europeans would commission work. Oh and we'd make a pace and then we'd all of them. You know dates and it was a good arrangement because that would keep us going and I would also give us the lines. What kind of entities would commission pieces? Theater theaters or you know public funds, and because, particularly in places like germany, belgium and some scandinavian countries also in asia,

there is either theatre, festivals, young or their staters that get a lot of public money just do bring stuff from outside as pleasure to because they believe in culture right it's right, anyway, cultures like education, growth, like going to turn you on from that guy, I'm in late, you saw the walkie who brought that stuff like world thea Worthing things from outside it's beautiful thing for wendy start doing the movies. and seventy nine. I mean I had kind of a false start that I drew a series of real, complicated things. I was like a glorified extra in Heaven's gate ii, as I was on that movie for about three months. Where did they? suit up in the mostly around kalispell Montana, also in idaho and some other places

But the main first thing was happened to be catherine, big lows, first term, a hearty code directed at with another guy with a guideline monti Montgomery. It was. Although film called the loveless with Robert gordon, you know it to the rockabilly guy. You know a type guys records and yeah okay yeah with robert yeah yeah. That was a motorcycle movie very stylized. Was it sort of campy? Was the third tongue in cheek, or was it she's playing the straight pretty straight? Oh yeah. straight you know it was. It was more you it is more, can a thing, Then I then wild one right got it: it wasn't melodrama you go back to wild one, everyone remembers it being pretty cool, but it's it's pretty funny. Silly yeah sure, I thank if you looked at him, mountain of scorpio arising

not fun enough. Still not funny it's you know, but but the approach is very, about the surface of things and what we say. So it's restyle eyes this vote. You know, I remember it, ran for a long time as a midnight movie in london and and its audience was. You know, I was really into that kind of fetishism of the the leather first guy hanging out near that was was it a period piece. It was slow, and so I thought that was your first full starring role. Yeah yeah- and I thought this is fun. yeah, no yeah, you you go someplace with a bunch of strangers. You become close, really fun. As the new yea figure this thing out and have to deal with where you are yeah. You've got a basic idea and that changes. Yet you make it as you're making your changed here and.

You do that and then and then you have evidence and you've made everything yeah you didn't make me you've made something, and then that informs the next thing. And it is that would inform going one step closer to the grave. That's the next year with a flourish shut the aldermen next week with. Is that way got. You hooked but I mean like when we did cause like streets of fire. Is. It is another kind of leather adventure in a way it is, and the funny thing is because as I have one or two in here, I watch very cool hand. That was a great that Movie was so much fun and he's he's great, I loved him, and it's very special movie for me to heal, was friendly with catherine reacting catherine showed him, piece of loveless fear and they got the idea to cast me and now here's a fire which was my maid, said ojo from here

and I yeah so that was and then really out of that, then I started saying more: I got manager at woman called me up. I was in the phone book still there in the yard at in new york, He called me up after saying the loveless out of film festival and she said: do you want to do some more of this? I think I could help you. combination between her. Her name was Phyllis carlisle. And dot catherine, showing what the hell is this little piece from the loveless that was like the beginning of my the journey russian yeah film acting career, yeah yeah. Well, I mean I'm trying to move the first time. I saw you. I guess it might have been puttin, but I really we're being extremely excited about cause freakin hadn't, meda movie, in a while when to live- and I know I came out right anyway- Take me my friend were kind of film had direct freak and

yeah yeah, we happened before so that was it. Yeah was the first one that I I can't like. I was in oh and I- and we were thrilled about in our core and we're really thinking about it. I know what I mean. That's fair it was a good movie, it's a good movie to think about. I watched it again recently and it holds up- and I talked to freakin in here. That was his great- that that was a hell of a three hour thing that it was great yeah, but but like that, that movie was challenging. I I think in some ways, because it did you know it had a lot of provocative stuff about morality and about you know it's funny, because one thing that I remember and may be. This may or may not be important, but it was sort of Failure initially and one of the That was fairly consistent in the criticism and I read criticism in those days. Sure was this movie

is basically misconceived because there's nobody to relate to, because everybody is just awful. Morally, who do we? The the the the implication was. If you don't have a good guide wrote for you can't story. They will get rid of a year which is funny and pre tearing tea. Now, pre management, mass, like posts, Indeed, there were plenty of antiheroes around. I I mean I dunno. What there is the must have been the eighty yeah, but they kind of in the sense was that kind of flipped yeah yep, that's right, because if an anti hero in a certain maria reads like a hero that this was just flat out, criminal people, yeah yeah yeah- I mean they had their reasons. I had this beautiful roll of up, artists, criminal? You anything good combination, you're the most honest character and somewhat yeah right when the only one

we knew you, you weren't hiding what you are. You know not doing in this sense and you really more fun to have dinner with exactly but freak him. it was at you, because I was looking at the you know, all the different movies and you've worked with some amazing directors. You've worked with some directors many times and imagine they all have a different approach and you're pretty. You know you're willing, you know creator you know like, some. What was your relationship with like freaking no, he was you know he was the maestro. I think he was little. You know he doing in his own way value because he was sort of out of the studio system, and I thought well, I make this firm. He found a guide the amount putting money. I answered and they were going to. Basically, I think they call it forth wallet. You know you were gonna put put in theatres and I It was a very direct. You know he wanted to keep it simple.

Wrecked the eighty one and actors that nobody had associations with it at once stars because he wanted a readiness he wanted for people to you know no our associations outside of right, the movie right. So he The maestro were a bunch of wet behind the kids. You know playing these worldly heavy guys. That's where the acting comes in was. Is he a hands on kind of director done much much? You know he ate. I know I I never know what to expect. Sometimes you know you come to the set and he'd say you know we're not doing that, because I was driving home last night. I saw a really look of cool location, We re wrote this and I found this really interesting guy. So here's the new sane we're gonna shoot this too. That he's very flow I am very open to answer very excited we have begun,

I mean I mean I imagine you know working like with the type of actor that you weren't theatre, theater that you must yes, yeah right now outside working with what's group in in being all hands on and engaged. Did you train at all in any formal way outside of college? I'm not not! Really. Yeah I mean mostly by doing you're even a college. I was near, you know, I wouldn't it de university at a time that it was really interesting because I university of wisconsin Milwaukee was like a street. A blue collar right, campus yeah, it was about, was about Immigrant kids going to school for the first timer was about mothers after having kids returning to school and had our vietnam veterans coming back didn't, have it wasn't like it was nosegay of drama school right, but you had left of different kinds of people here and also the faculty was very attractive and I think really had a stamp on me sure, because you know

there's no one way. It keeps the flexibility in an appreciation that there's many ways he's. Gonna cat yeah. Sure am sorry. You love cats are no! You can't metaphorically I can handle it. Hopes at just occurred to me, god I'll, give em a big boy out can take version, we hope keg. So that's worth listening sure like. I need to explain it. For things to me. No one I mean like what you did to movies with over stone and put him was a huge break. Yes, that that was a wife to very important yeah like I just turned the movie on the other night and was in the middle. I was flipping through cable and is right at the scene where you get shot and it's like one of the most brutal moments in in film and in some weird way, just completely yeah that sums up some part of the vietnam dessert

And then you did you have a nice part in born on the fourth of July now, working with him, it would seem to me that him and freakin in intensity or similar. Yes, and in in when you did very different but similar in intensity right how did there, when you were doing platoon entering now world and seeing that script and and knowing what was going on or what were your feelings. If you know about doing it, and I was really excited, you know, You had this guy telling a personal story, and you had all these vietnam vets, including oliver wising you and training you at your plane soldier. You know and grow up. I I was born in fifty five I grew up with. You know: world war, two movies, herein movies and then I realise it now and then you live

vietnam and I'm just old enough. I think my year was the last year of the draft yet and so. But this this thing of being a soldier is part of our culture. You know look at look at our military spending, you can't escape it and I think, as far as so stories and fantasies, and it's all rap then opportunity play in story, that's personal and lets us kind of. Tell the story of these people, it was thrilling. Yeah yeah, great story, and there was no you here thanks for such comradery rate. He was a young cast. You know that once you at their hollywood. It was a million miles away. We were just a bunch of keys

its plain war and trying to figure stuff out but guided with this with this stuff, and that was that berenger he was able he hadn't done a either had now he was, he was probably he was the old man of the group. Far as he was yeah, he was a well known actor and he had done many things big chill. Maybe I don't I don't know, but he had. He was the most yeah well known actor, and it was sheen and an charlie sheen, who was still fairly no he's great and then a lot of a lot of first time. People here and then he did a born, the fourth of July, which witches an after vietnam movie up and but I guess the guy want you to to to help me out with, because I'm sort of fascinated with him. Yet in you ve done for movies with them. You must have an understanding of what's compelling and what's you know a not able posh, raider outposts. Read. I probably done more than four movies yeah yeah

You know he hero taxi driver done. Many beautiful maria and everybody always describes them ass, a writer of tax, the driver riches. One. I know that, but I've watches his movies, but, like a you know that taxi driver think the reason that that that's important is that he's able to ask a certain darkness. Yes, of course, yeah and In like when I saw affliction you know I was like what is going on Well, that's where you gotta, remember. Affliction comes from a very strong novel to by Russell bank right, okay, so that's okay! So that's a very particular one doesn't make it any less anything. But I want to point that out I mean the ones you know the first time I did something substantial with him was like sleepea, which was

I what he was talking about, something he knew and it was kind of a white collar. You know drug world of new york yeah and it was thrilling to play that part, because it was the kind of part that you know that guy could have been me if my life was different. Sure and also shot very little in new york and it was a very naturalistic in it's style for the most part, and it was really fun to play. Genteel a drug dealer for a while yeah and a guy that was searching here and it. It was a rule that hit me at the right time and it meant a lot to me, but his style is very and a little distant. I you know, I think he schrader yeah. He deals with very hot things and a very cool way yeah, and I like that yeah because-

dixon burn all the hotter here yeah. Well, I think auto focus like a masterpiece out of focus is fun that was really fun and that's not a widely seen, but well as good now, as he really is good at smelling. What's in the air, you know I thought his his his soldiers said dog eat dog race. I didn't. I got to see it. I I didn't know about it. At one was as a little wacky yeah two years ago, yeah yeah seen him something you know outs. I just haven't seen him lately hey Jeff! Oh, he works all the time yeah, but he does big weird kind of franchise movie. Sometimes he does and I don't see a lot of the little ones. I didn't see the second bad lieutenant were you in that as well nona but yeah? How is he doing he seems good yeah, seems good. You know I think he wants to find. You know he Yet the burma movies and, and that you know, he's still very bankable by Adam. I think you still wants to do

Movie is one way of saying, but a bug with the auto Guess that yeah I a couple times when it came out and he's sort of like that preoccupation with equipment, yeah yeah, I thought, was pretty fascinating, yeah and also it was. I love movies and like this movie that came out and Canada in about a lot now floor. Yeah. I love that. That's the cool thing about auto focus as the making of the film had such parallels to the film itself out with a way we made it inform thing so much because we were, making this in the shadow of hollywood on a shoestring budget about some guys with his. You know it and video, the ever hiring where hiring these girls you know, I don't know there was something and was it a reflection, yeah yeah, it was

It was really fun a dark alley where they were able to inhabit. world because we were living it. In up in parallel way, yeah, and that seemed like the the the like there's a moment in their movie that I just will that, where everything is it broken down to a degree where you just consumed by this compulsion? The sex addiction, but it is, can you on that couch? Did both EU jerking off an opposite ends of the council? It is sharing a memory. You know that way. You're there with a casualness. Where are you where you're in something that that is that bizarre and in it that it's become commonplace its norm. Yeah I just together fancy every year and then I was a fund movie, I enjoy working with Paul. Is he a dark guy on set? a happy guy, because he likes to work. The dark guy general cause he's serious.

enable have made moves to do with him five. I think I'm going to make some more how's, he doing he's doing great yeah, he's he's these nice clean lifestyle anew baby yoga and I'm godfather to his child? Oh great, he's my neighbor and rum. What is it his vision that you like so much don't know about his vision. I like him visa and he I e, also encourages the way we work. I I really feel like collaborator him out and sad thing? Is he he's not? Why industrial been distributed. Yet here. so people are really ignorant of a movie like pascal lamy, that an even isn't

I didn't I'm insurgent here. Yeah I'd! There's a lot of confusion. Moves I want to watch. I can't find that was very differential. Our adventurers stuff is not on itunes. That's ridiculous! I couldn't find anti christ, that's ridiculous! Right! we're living in a very puritanical country. I have one eye that might be a corporate issue, but maybe it is it is but the same thing yeah, because they are the hand of the air there, the instrument of farm, our they're, keeping the machine. Of what that shouldn't be the issue. That's just bad distribution, huh yeah! I dont know what it is. I mean you know you hate to complain right sure, but the truth is this really mystery to me, because, even even from pure grubby come commerce standpoint. If put that on some platform. Are you know what it is? Video on demand planner aren't any Hey kid

it's in iowa someplace and feels like he can't connect with. You know the icons of certain kind of culture, Riyadh that express certain things. We should be able to see that movie and there's enough out there and that Pasolini was such a brilliant thinker You, like the movie or not. There is enough expression of what he did in the movie that it's going to be worth it and then his work, exactly inspiring exactly Hopefully maybe people listening all get out there. I mean I want to see it yeah yeah and I I'm also a big fan of mississippi burning. Obviously you know I could go through all your movies, okay, you're little. Heavy on the front. So obviously you know you can always tell where people watch movies and where they stop working.

Watching them. Last laugh. I let's see, I just didn't. Go down the list, though okay, that I've seen cry baby wild at heart. I saw no, no I'm sorry! I and but you get it yeah sure I do, but I and I was not half else's when people are young. We have to have more time. Church they're gone out and film was placed in our culture, love different that and now, when it's harder to find, sometimes kinds of movies, you gotta be a got. You be a and also gotta go. You can't watch me We, like, I, didn't see the venture films either of eminem upset about it, because I missed the window. You go see anti trust. I do get to see it was added a challenging amazing thing for you. I just think it Beautiful movie? That's not what people think it is I think it's not for everyone. I think he has such a nose for exploring the and unspeakable. You know a really

both in a constructive way and he always gets labeled as just being transgressive and kind. trickster and you know, but I think he's there, some in his character there, he really knows how to under the rocks Sharon Andy's, great film maker and in their some some images and some sequences, and that that, for me, like incredibly beautiful may I I bet it's rough too, so I I get it when someone says. Oh, I can't take it. I think I can handle it. Yeah yeah, I'm sure I'm sure he was he is he the he's part the dogma, film makers, right yeah. He was one of the big guys. Yet I think you know that was a period of time. Well, yeah I saw the chefs celebration. I saw- and I don't think he directed that one, but if not at all, that was a that was a hell of a movie that dealt with some of the same type yep. It's pretty wild shadow, vampire very good, and I I

pretty good and everything first berg two, which must have been interesting. I doubt that movie, that's not ready to fight for exist existence. I don't even know if it's a if it's a favorite of cronin, I don't know a very controlled dude man. I can hear Ninety sets are beautiful yeah, it's really fun to work with him like not. Unlike I imagine I don't know, Wes anderson, yeah but you'd, be surprised. You know. The irony is when, when you're, good structure and its sane. the wiggle room, is inside you, yeah yeah, right and you're free and you don't Lose a certain kind of energy or have a certain amount of anxiety. It's like you can focus better and you can go deeper. Because you're not there security, but at the same time the security you got to punch out. You know

get it so I p dot m. They know what their work is. Like kind of left, you only many choices around their work. You have your work. Well, it's it's like. If yeah, it's it it is about choices about where to direct your energy and if it's articulated, then you have the work in a more focused way in clearer field, rather than having an old whole failed and kind they have this gun to your head. Do right, be clever, or invent or interpret. You don't worry about that here. When you got it strong language and a strong structure. The then you just and to survive and live and keep it alive, and somehow, in that, that's where you become engaged right, because you aren't you. Aren't you practical right? yeah you lose. You saw me, you lose yourself and deeply. You connect with yourself more because you

ro away a lot of the surface things of identity and and fought, and you get to a more intuitive state, a state that you didn't even know you had because you're kind of putting your partner corner and you got to figure it out, yea and the moment yeah well how how did that apply to the florida project? You look like that was a little looser, then, obviously a cronenberg or on an anderson film, but it was in one place, yeah. The project was beautiful because he has shown. Baker is really great at using concrete, real ally. the accident fictional element designed elements in them with them and they started out with a really strong, screenplay win. I would from sean and I his writing in our crisper and that's what you got first, you you and it was beautiful and you could shoot that

and we did shoot that, but we also shot up stuff and sometimes also there would be all too often takes with the children. Those of those. kids in this movie and their their children not act, there were other children first, that site were great and they were great. Take it or leave the central girl, six years old and she's a natural, you know she's a little firecracker, what I'm saying is that you can have both yeah and when you have a structure that can let you know that can make you a little looser. That's the irony if you're spending too much time looking for that structure Not enough monopoly was interesting, but because watching you that you- and when you your your presence, was there all the time when I had a very clear job, we're here. Under the time. That's what I did. What did I do

This moment yet and we were shooting my view there and it was like the love it. When the you know the line between real life. agreed on life now via it communally accepted. Reality idea gets thrown out our special reality like the manager would be sitting there and we'd have to shoot a scene in the office and lead like okay. Can you guys? we'll go in? Also that Emily, like that, that little bit like that, so there were people living at that hotel? Oh yeah, it was a funk multimedia and damn sometimes we'd be in the middle of sane people come to check in here and we weren't a big crew, were I was very small crew yeah. So it's like don't go in there shooting you know it's not like. He had lots of equipment, trucks but everybody's on hands on deck. With that oh yeah, yeah and then you've got kids run around yeah, and then you get you know, people. real challenging lives in or coming out to see this

circuses, yeah yeah yeah. It was really how I got your shoe europe. You feel I count effect your perform its being in the presence of what was real destitution and unreal, desperate, and it keeps you honest, yeah yeah, you don't make it shit movie. You gotta honor those people clear and you aren't. They don't become they stopping those. People when they become your paypal because you're one of them right just by sheer proximity, you're talking to they're telling your stories that informs everything oh you're down with a real, and it may be temporary and you have no illusion. You know you know. Ah, world this world that were talking about for people that haven't seen the movies a world of people live in a low cost motels in an area in central florida near there amusement parks,

that don't have permanent residences, so they're long long term, temporary residences- and these motives and it's that kind of k- mart saying that dahlia. Now they pay as they go into the old. and when someone doesn't have a lot of money they go to kmart. I think. While I can get a grill for twenty bucks, while they end up buying wendy grills over their lifetime and that great last about tomb, Once it in the landfill here next year, they have to buy it again if they bought a nice grill in the first place right, then they some stability, they'd prairie, fraction as much and you anyone have many grills in the landfill rice. So we're really. You know where were dog chasing its own tail, you're, not sure, and this expresses that I call you a little bit near because it's a very precarious position, because they they have trouble after that,

a little bit the crash in the housing crisis, a lot of people and in can't find a place to live because they can't afford the the first the down payment. They they can't do security security checks. Are they can't do that me yeah? They can't they out here that we are not those they let it through in and I thought it was fascinating because you know the the kids the energy of the kids is is what buoys you know delete me the emotional tone of that move. Oh yeah, it's you know, the kids are very present and you see kind of a joyful chaos of the kid yeah, but then have the shadow of the difficulty of the adults and you and of sea life and that's what appeals to me about it, wagging fingers.

Or even necessarily given a solution for it. It shows just shows a world, that's in kind of trapped in a loop, yup and the end yeah, because you're caring enter it be eu about midway through you start to realize. I call this guy's, you know I don't know what it is, but he's he's he's been compromised. Somehow there who hasn't? No, no, I'm not at the point. It's not generally not, ok by me lulli that sort of the point, but it's like it's not overplayed. You don't even know what it is. I imagine that guy helping you move was your son right, yeah yeah and it's sort of like I dunno. What happened here? this is where he ended up. Yep he's only one tier above the people. Sense that he's got a job. Is the only history him in the people living there. That's absolutely right! Now. I think that's why this isn't

this is now it's a small movie, but it's not a depressing movie and that's not on your method movie, because it points to this impulse that we have to try to try to make good of limited situation, and it's it's that that balance that we try to do between acceptance, but also forging ahead, trying to make it better and bobby my character. Is you know without telling people before they see them, will lead too much? he's he's a simple guy you know is: did nothing on the surface extraordinary about him and but he he makes stuff works Somehow, because he's good hearted and he he he. The big thing the big ten, not judge mental, he recognizes that your happiness, my in is dependent on your happiness, which is very

equation to learn that we all know, but we don't get a chance to practice. Very often because, where were bred on Competition get ahead of the other guy. You know if he falls behind, That gives you more room to go ahead in and is really about cooperation and compassion and and help in each other. Tell you the movie like it fell to me. little like some of those movies made in about kids in in sort of like a latin american movies and in some of the items I dont that'll member titles not like this, There are some partiality right like that. There's these you have these sort of these kids living poverty in these third world countries, and now you are doing great. Yet you know it's not going to last forever and then, this in american version of the island really interesting the idea felt that way to me that you have. The joy and relentless exuberance of these kids are the only that makes us not a depressing movie,

right dear, but also my guy you're nigh to you. I don t fight with him, because that he's, oh yes and every man, and even the woman who placed a mother you, you know you rooting for her on some level. Eight, it's all very compelling and it isn't set it sad. But if not depressing but at the end of the movie you are confronted with some interesting things in yourself and I want to give away my right right now. It's sean has done a beautiful john, no doubt by its very balanced and It's I didn't aims. First, weight is complete its yes, its complete and whole yes. But it's not closed. That's right, plenty room for the audience to participate, yeah that sounds like a lot of work when you say that to people, but it's a pleasure. I think why what kind of movies where you know it is open enough for for it to challenge a person's individual sensibility without you, you and you're, not it's not a closed system, closed

yeah and add, and what are you working on now? You you doing some. I just got here. I just wrapped on a film called aquaman. Oh yeah yeah for your movie yeah yeah as aims one directing jason mama. amber heard. What are you doing? Patrick Wilson I play, a good character. I play character, that's kind of the mentor to aquaman he's also politician. That is, the kind of the lord shame, berlin or that they agree. I too were Patrick wilson, who is the fat king interests and the other be plenty of time to talk about that, but that just finish that James one, a great director big movie, the muscular fund movie and what end you did the orient expresses a dead, the orient etc make it so when I dont know, if they can read about three mags refill, you re imagining, but it the brenner incredible

not a directed it yeah he started for poorer hooker and it's a fantastic cast very stylish, great, I I haven't, seen it yet, but it was really fun to do. and then now I'm off to france to do a film with julian schnabel, another one he did, which one did he did Basquiat diving bell and the butterfly he did. I was I was the little cameo in basketball. I was in morale, which was his last one. I like diving bell and the butterfly, and he also did the before night falls She's, a beautiful film that Javier bardem couldn't that's good movie, yeah yeah I liked his paintings to ya

great artist and he's fun to work with yehovah in film. I've only worked with them in very small ways. We know each other, so the driveway has. This can be a business, a big way, big know: it's not a big movie, it's a smaller movie, but but it's a beautiful it and go at the end of his life out, you know that at the period where he was really most productive but also most challenged, let's say near revenge, I'm plain van gogh, and what do you do to prepare for right now, I'm gonna my beard. He learned not to pay

uh huh. You do hear the ladders between him and his brother Theo. I read a life. Ah, ah you know this very well researched biography, but also Julian leads the way, because one of the beautiful things about Julian is like all great directors in one when you come down to it. It's like you got a rome you bring stuff into the room here. That means something to you or resonate with you or Signify something for you and then you order it. You make a relationship and that relationship and what happens kind of ex its own story, everybody story, story story. You know expressing your point of view, or you know, explain, the best

It's always happened when you're able to tap into this kind of process of making something yet- and someone like Julian understands that so Maybe that's why, when he started making movies, in my said, my god he's a filmmaker he it's a little bit like duh. Of course yeah. Of course it is, started anyway. I'm I bring that up. There's plenty of time to talk at that too. I'm excited. I live in a a couple of days. it's rare, and yet you have almost exclusively in rome. I well, you know I work So I live in from in new york that I lately a little bit more in. It must be nice. It's beautiful place I mean you know: they're they've got their challenges, but. Call me foolish

isn't that enough. I just have to study every day, yeah yeah. Well, you look great in you're, doing great work and a thrill to talk to you crumbs banks thanks man That was me and mister dafoe great talking to him. It's nice out here I'll play some guitar. I'll play some redundant guitar. My gold guitar and my old ass amp.

the what boomer lives.