It's an extra helping of music talk for Thanksgiving. First Marc sits down with filmmaker Kasper Collin and jazz musician Bennie Maupin to talk about the documentary I Called Him Morgan, which deals with the life, love and murder of jazz trumpeter Lee Morgan. Then Texas blues rocker Jimmie Vaughan jams with Marc in the garage, sharing stories about Jimi Hendrix, Eric Clapton, Buddy Guy, and Jimmie's little brother Stevie Ray Vaughan.
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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All alright, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fuck? Next, what the fuck stirs? What the fuck delegates, what's happening. How are you so before I get ahead of myself and start talking about trying to do. well with thanksgiving today on the show I've got to it's a bit. It's a big show. It's a big show. I've got jasper cullen and benny mopping. They were both are barely more than say, a jazz musician. Who is very tight? with Lee morgan played with him several different instruments will fax a widower I will clarinet big clarinet. others stay will talk to him, but and also casper kasper, who, who directed documentary
I called him morgan about lee morgan and then after at Jimmie Vaughan, Jimmie Vaughan, the blues guitar player, jimmie, Vaughan, tex max max yeah jimmie Vaughan stevie, ray's brother, also, the the guitar If the player in front man half run man used to be the and wilson for the fabulous under birds. He's gonna be here a very excited about that he's, a real he's real musical hero to me. What's going on right now is its thanks. Giving I give the same every year, I'm not doing anything for thanksgiving for the second year in a row, I'm not going down. to my mommy's house to cook a big dinner this year, because I don't have time I'm in the middle of shooting go out and I'm in the middle of moving and go to some Sarah, the painter s we're going go over there and I gave a be ordeal. A progressive vegan endeavor,
That's alright, that's alright! It's okay I no longer have to make exceptions in. Like gavin eat much meat way. We just keep the cholesterol down, keep things level, keep the you know the the levels level in the blood in the heart in the fat, in that organs, so I know I could blow it out. Blow it out today, somewhere I could. I could just go drop in some friend's house. I know you didn't invite me, but you gotta to they eat, but I'm not going to is this the holidays, a lot of shit going down. Shit is going down every fucking day, some of it good, some of it terrible some of it good, some of it fuckin. Just heinous heinous Where do you fall and I'm being vague on purpose? I'm being vague on purpose because one His heinous is another person's awesome. That's what seems to be the big problem.
Your heinous is my awesome. Sorry sorry How do we figure out how to talk about that? Here's the deal I know you're dead. I know your family's house, people over some annoying guy, some annoying woman, some man kid, some unknown? cousin some annoying parent mommy daddy, that the level of intensity of annoying bordering on just a cry. I am against sanity, is high. It's high today I know I know you're gone through it. I know you don't hey. Look you people that have wonderful when you're just having a nice time and everybody's sweet and everyone smiling, maybe holding hands, praying a little bit the different languages- maybe you know, am. I still got our marbles. Grandpas passed away was old and everyone's just thrilled.
Maybe maybe you're, that in your kids are perfect in every maybe you're. That person are you and you get along with everybody in your valet, maybe you're that person. I don't know what to say to you. Have a nice day enjoy your I am in congratulations on being mentally and spiritually healthy. You fuckers that was rude. I apologize, No sorry, I don't envy you, but but I'm happy for you. So let me talk to other people Alright. So what do I usually do? It's very hot here I dunno know what the temperature is like. Maybe I hopefully the best you can hope for maybe is anywhere east of los angeles or california. it was Steven. I just hope it's Crispin maybe even a light snow would be good, but just that crisp nice fall leaves. changing chill in the air that makes you reflect, makes you act on who you are that's what the thanksgiving is or who are you. Who are you in there? Take that one
Get out of that room in between the cleaning up in coffee get out, don't help especially if it was a rough dinner if you had a fucking strap in for some political bullshit or some? emotional onslaught of triggering you have yet strap in for that to get out. You have to have clear the table. Fuck it there's. Other people get out, take a walk before you, fucking hurt somebody with your mouth. by saying something horrible take them, Walk in that chris bear take it in think about it. Think it the crisis at hand. Think about the grader who did hand balance amount, how macro how's. The micro macro, not great microbe could be good, could be good. What gotta. Do what? got, do what's coming up. What are your challenges? Who are you? How can he be better
do. You apologies to make the apologies to yourself to make. Do you have things that you won't go back into that house and set make. Some shit right, my good time to do it or you know what fuck it don't worry about it just bathed in a certain breathing that fall air breathe it out, maybe cry a little bit. Think about who we are who you are, who we are, what we can do to be better people. Geller humility. Spread a little love making a you know, eat some fucking pie, be nice to the kid rambling now, but Jesus have a good thanksgiving. Don't make it worse. Don't hurt yourself.
Try not to emotionally hurt others, and think about what you need to do next to first Are your growth as a person and help the bigger picture? How does your micro impact the macro? The big pick all right, so that's all I got pay them but seriously if the pies good enjoy it and don't don't eat, the berry pie, vanilla It screams away to go alright, so so. This can be interesting. Casper call an embarrassing mopping. Benny is as a jazz musician d. humanity that their there, both involved with casper directed it ike, the morgan is streaming now on netflix if you're a voting. Member of the academy, I urge you to check it out. It was just nominated for an naacp image award for outstanding documentary, blew my mind and I was just getting into Lee morgan, it all synced up and now I get to talk
guy who newly morgan- and I'm very excited about that. So this me talking to the director casper collin and two: friend and musician benny mopping guiding! No! You did another documentary before I called him morgan about how bert Pilar too very much so I died but see like did the fucker About me and jazz, is I I don't. I didn't know who albert Ayler was I'm sure benny. yeah So there's this whole world of jazz and I'm just starting to get into in the last few years- and it seems, and it never ending. It is for me to after, like twenty five years, and I mean after making this first from about our but I'll it took me seven years was a maker failed to make the firm. It was a fantastic because the music
I loved the music so much and at that time was playing sex for myself and all because something else, but it was also of obvious connection to Sweden and I was living in is that time and he can I lived in, he was from Cleveland ohio yeah. But then he moved to sweden in ninety sixty two and stayed there for almost a year here and made his first album there and nobody's the same time. He was touring with swedish dance cast in the far north up lapland, yeah and ass. Looked at the night sun and everything got like a spiritual awakening, and then he moved to new york and became this kind of underground hero and a young coltrane was variant, I him and finally asked him to play at his funeral united sixty seven. So I'll was there with his open or net, was there with his group, so that's kind of who he was much an underground hero at this time in this cause you're from Sweden, you are he felt connected to it. I think that was a very important part for me
but I mean I love music, so much so for someone I heard for the first time was: maybe eighteen, nineteen years old. I think I found their record either in my father's collection or the the library burg, and it was music that No, if you ever heard of its kind of monopoly gotta go that way, but this morning I know I gotta go listen to him. Because when you hear it is like, oh well, I didn't what to do with. It took a lot of years with them live in gothenburg when I moved to stockholm. I realize this store with him there and I connected to it. Yeah then that's that film come about how far back. Do you go with like where we're where, where was jazz when you started well I'm from Detroit, so I got to grow up listening to gospel, music blues, of course, getting a motown town all of these things, and so many great musicians came to Detroit do a my early years. I got to be very close to john culture, Sonny Rollins
in Detroit there was Yusef Lateef. Who was a big influence on me. as well as a lot of the other music, you are younger than them from Detroit yeah yeah, much algeria. You know like well sonny rollins he's like ten years. My senior right he's. Eighty seven now and you know, of course, call train- is calm and use every latif has gone as well, but I got to hear all of these different thing, these and little by little, that music there was coming from new york, basically was sort of game its way into radio. The indian. but they would always apologize before they would play some of it. at the I didn't have any records and so the radio was like my saving. Grace is twelve noon. I was a guy who came on. and he was the one who introduced the music, but he would always say, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to present something to you. Now it's a little bit different. So don't
station, but this is young man who's, creating quite a stir in the new york music scene. And he's he's doing something. it's quite different, just to just sit, American, just listen, with, and then I started to or nest music and it was like wow because you know in my ears I grew up Would the blues and grasp wall and- of course, the bebop. Detroit was very much above bebop city, heavily influenced by charlie parker and all the great This is from that area. Playing at this point I was beginning to play yeah as beginning to play out. I was like her. I was about fourteen or fifteen marie. What was your first instrument? My first instrument was actually the piano and then from there I went to the clarinet But I really want to play the saxophone, so, just before I got to go from middle school to like high school, I was able to get my saxophone and that's when I really
dig in place of my ban director at a high school, and that is a tender. Now it was out oh yeah. What ornette he's the one who completely different approach, opium annul. First of all, there was the absence of the piano that opened up the aura of the music. I guess, as you describe it, and since there was no code thing going on harmonically. It was just the rhythm with Billy Higgins or eddie blackwell, who was planned then interior and You know that was whoa yeah yeah. You know like in Charlie Haden, and they were playing something? but it was so unified that what really enable me to understand this. well thought out right. So you have something sounds like you know, from the future. Like the context, it's solid, it's grounded. Yes, I had a conversation once when I was about eighteen or nineteen with john coltrane, and
He didn't talk about his music at all, but he was very excited about sunday. Is it as a young man in new york right now, who's creating quite an uproar I want to hear the week before I came here to detroit and playing a place called jazz gallery the place that was known for presenting if they were really cutting edge yanks and his name is Ornette coleman. Oh wow, as I says you know, I've been hearing I'm a little bit on radio is this here and it was cold. In reply to my mind right. You know, we come to new york, because there's some young musicians in new york there's a little bit older, knew some of them a little bit younger, says, but the muse is moving forward and he said that's what I'm interested in I'm interested in and being able to just some of that spirit in my music. And so that's that's what guy? That's what got you the new york. You was the first one he is yours me. He said right away straight out. He said, even if you don't stay in new york, come and feel it and just listen to was being done: yeah, yeah and
train himself was to be. He was certainly pushing the envelope. Nessie hornsey answer: he will he thought it was pushing out in to what or net took, Brian right, there yeah he was very influenced by our net yeah, but there were a lot of musicians, influence bought on it, but I think they kept it I want to download data because, because I mean, if you were a bebop be bother! Then, if you were listening to our net, then you are like you know: Well, what's wrong with you, you know what you listen to that know. What is that there is that it was. It was the Jeanne other guardy aspects of some of the older guys who worked so hard to develop. That approach that was popularized by charlie parker and dizzy. Gillespie p ensure all those musicians. Eighty wanna want to go out there. They did not want to go out there. They had no intentions of going out the so there was a lot of bad bad, bad conversations about, or net
destroying the music and inadequate. You know he's he's taking away from the art form, that's been so sacred and so actual conservative, hipster yeah exactly beyond conservatives, Can music is the only music that continues to unfold and and jazz around. The world is warmly embraced, not only by musicians but and people who, who look to america for something different, something fresh, something adventurous that takes a lot right and it's it's more appreciated. It seems outside of america. You absolutely about that I can't deny you know like in sweden it you know this kid. He gets hip to albert,
he's like fourteen changes, his life, and they make a movie about them right that that's how it is that's how it is and but but I think you really mean that was the film about albert- was partly about that- that they could no not get any gigs really in new york. I mean cecil had to play for door, but then they went to Sweden and they were booked for two weeks ago. Prepaid so was a big big yeah source of. That's part of this film how the appreciation was bigger in europe and in Scandinavia. For this music. Now, Lee morgan, you got me at a interesting time with Lee morgan, because I had the experience with Lee morgan that you had with without my god, not the record or he gimme a. I think, the first when you gave me, I think that for why had was zero dollars and six cents? Is that the Morgan album young. I have been register it and then again gigolo, put it on I'm just walking around the house, I'm here in this town, the my one is that, like you just went in like I didn't read
sixth sense, I didn't know really who leave morgan was. I was just buying records, but the tone gigolo? Just blew my mind and I felt something and then I locked into Lee morgan stuff- and I was sort of like does everybody know- this guy, like yours, part of me, just sort of like I think, he's better than MIA exactly actually and then, when you're read your movie came out and mike. I had no idea about that story. About everyone in the jazz world knows that his his wife his common law wife shot him, the cloud. I guess a story was that he was in the middle of a set. Originally was a story, but then you some our track down. Like the coincidence Have that guy his name: Larry Larry, Ridley yeah, the latter and it's almost with a cassette larry any time and who ran into her air Helen morgan working at a church, correct and working for the school. What was it she was actually taking an evening course. She had no education, you know so she
his evening course in history was a history teacher and yes, radio dj. This was in the late eighties, Yeah connected in he finds that figures out who she is in these ike holy shit, and then he got this weird cosette were ready interview with her and you fill in all these and there we got all these guys who were able to fill in the gaps in the film to now, using hook up with lean tone like later in his career right actually was one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight but prior yeah yeah during my teenage years when he was actually playing with art, Blakey and the jazz messengers yeah, it's cuz. I got to hear him. I think I heard and was maybe nineteen nineteen fifty eight- do fifty not because they came to Detroit, come usually maybe twice a year and it is
album that, even though I was under twenty one years of the law, if you weren't twenty one, you couldn't come in yeah the guys would even just let me in and says you have to sit somewhere special cause. They knew you were a player. Well, they knew that. I wanted to music and I didn't come in there to drink anyhow, yeah yeah yeah. I didn't want a beer, yet I mean you know so much more. was always a part of my my my musical anthony I say you know he came lady, and that music just have to me with any calls him in all those with our bob stuff was its ways excessive. All it s true, it wasn't like your straight up bebop and it had a pretty good, strict blues. Beer. You can walk right into it and swing. A little maybe even snap, you know, you're not going to get confused well I mean it was the beginning of a shift from both from the leave all right. It's itself, as it is a pure form right of them, the key ilo and with composes like binnacle, soon and Bobby timmins I mean they created.
Things that were related basically to the to the black church. Again, You know this year and that and those they're threatening you know and this kind of winner from their university in those with things that european, We could have access to write exactly the way there was a day it seem like. There was an innate marketing strategy. Well, there was an innate marketing strategy and there was also some tremendous foundational stuff going on with our Blakey it's a drama right, oh yeah. He knew how to format haha and he had the guys who could carry it over yeah. So morgan was there. He was in my head, but then fast forward? when I moved to new york, which is nineteen sixty two here I never saw Lee morgan, who see- I saw a pretty hubbard I
of course, I am dizzy. Yeah kinney door ham airs, if you guys likely six. No. This is like shortly after I got there, These guys were active like what year there I came in. I moved there when I was twenty one. Nineteen sixty two ok right. I had a liberating right. Twenty second birthday right in new york. You know so the scene was everyone's on the savage via was happening saw miles because that was another round, but was what you know. He wasn't like he, as an accessible right. He was you know these. These guys damage he might later. I discovered he will go through I love to hear what they were doing sneaking at his name was on a completely different level, sure there's artistically and where he was, you know, as a band leader yeah the whole
strata of the mystique there, the smile yeah, exactly the prince of darkness as they used to call it new york. It was you do I got to hear these guys, but I never saw Lee because that was when he was down. Cows when he was busy wrung out yeah, Very much addicted, I discovered actually I knew he was I he was addicted. The last Andrews I'm in detroit, because I could just tell me detroit musicians were heavily influenced by charlie parker, so many of them were addicted to you know when you are around people who are addicted and you If you look at them enough, you can tell physically oh yeah, there was rupee whether they're drew ph correction and there are no other rupee and yeah the thing that goes with that, yet a nasty habit. and so fast forward. You know I'm in new york. Where can you do in my private lessons play at the puerto rican cats? Just getting all of the exposure that I could possibly get hanging out with marion brown and wayne Shaw
brother Alan shorter, who was a great composer troubled. Nowhere. You start playing all the instruments like you played the EU food piccolo. I may squire and will of a basically when I got to new york. I was planned the tenor here and I have the floor yeah and then a little bit later on a musician who was known as the avant garde musician. His name was Margaret. What's yeah, he was one of the one of the going deep. Now he has seen the guys mars. It was like he was a painter. The heavily influenced by jackson, pollock right, so you know the people in the eurozone, god he's out of his mind, but he was also working to play. acts of phone and innovation, clarinet and one day call me up pieces man. I know you play different instruments as budget. I was just in doing a show cause he was showing here you're. This get was how's it going with making more money doing this. any used was as a musician musician areas.
Too lame. I can't hire him for eight yeah. He doesn't read music. He doesn't know any standards, I mean, you know he's better off just let freedom ring that right saw yeah call me says I get this place clarinet. I just purchased a new one and I my old one. This is why you come over and take a look at it. And I'd you, if you like it, you know I could do yeah. So I said okay, so I went over to his house and he showed me the bass clarinet and I looked at it like this up I felt it. I never held one in my hands, he says yeah, that's it! instrument. You know I well, how much do you want for it? give me fifty dollars for it. So I said: okay, can I give you twenty now and come back, This has already stated just pay me when you feel you just great now you got a whole new thing. I got a whole new voice, all together man and I kept it in my apartment. I do not have to bring it out in public at all. No, no well! I was first to hear it, it was humbling. You know:
I couldn't really get the sale nature of it. First of all is made out a would be, and you know I had to get to a development, my amateur and my ear. For listening to her, because I had already heard Eric was a motivating factor, Eric dolphy that you know as if I could. Even one I ordered well. That was his instrument. That was one of them, but he played the at the EL alto yeah and you play regular clarinet and play the bass clarinet. I mean, in my mind, he's the one right who set the tone for me right but later, I say you know I just kind develop developed myself I figured it out around new york with the guys they will hire. I mean you know kind of take me through some of the gigs and everything and then I got it. I got a good gig, which is the first real orton international galea, and that was with the great composer anti and his horse silver silver whores, yeah yeah. One time- and
he turned me down. I don't think you know somebody else. I and then I'm am in a rehearsal file. He did have. the second audition yeah yeah by then I played with mccoy, I play with a bunch of people, and I didn't give a damn. If you not but I wanted the gig because I knew there was going to work cuz horse worked. He had bands that actually made trips and went to your open, exciting. I was in rehearsal with him for our first taurus, one thousand nine hundred and sixty eight The door opens and is Lee morgan, okay, and he looked great. He got all cleaned up. He was short. Hair was going to be, I mean, Well, the skin look good, and you know it was definitely not high and you know he came right over to me as I'm sorry to interrupt you your rehearsal man, but I got to see for a second can talk to your saxophone player and he came over to me and he said man and get ready to another because they were blue now. Will you do with me. Yeah
Ok, I have somebody from no cause, it has it and he was gone. Let me give you a bit of about three or four me, and you know with the first: we gonna do what was called koran by we. I mean that was my first one and what was he like? He was really doing a time. We came together because he was clean. was no. There was no private side, you know what I mean right. He wasn't always secret no one's to go off somewhere, so he can. All lit up. You were out of media, and so We focused on the music there. That was our thing and as a is, the other recordings we did. We did turn a moments. Women why china at one with the latter smith? Who you and me well. It wasn't just as you increase to be in a bunch of other musicians, and we did this you know we just we just got tide. We love the way we played together,
The sound was great. Yeah koromo was the was the turning point and then Finally, after my stay were horse silver, which was about two years, I came back to new york and I call me as alien I'm home and I'm done is fired everybody yeah, because that's what he would do you keep your couple of years here and then you say: okay, now you go out and do do your thing yeah you know, and so he said. Well, that's that's really cool. He says George coleman, the great saxophone is. Is yours been playing with me, but george is starting to get more of his work and he was there one and I need a tennis player. He it you come away with me. I said hell, yeah you're back I'm back, I just went live from being employed for maybe two weeks while you meet her vehicle? I met Herbie hancock her before, All of this happen here you got a lot of records with him? Well, yes, I did, and I met Herbie hancock through my My chief mentor
is Sonny. Rollins you once I got to new york or sunday cause I miss sunny in detroit when I was like seventeen And to this day he's my man yeah I'll, call him at least once a week, and you know sunny how's. He doing he doing good good yeah he's in great shape, and just you know tremendous spirit. I want to see him the beginning of september and spent three. his house and we just to antarctica game a full report, want to do, and you know where I'm going at the house, you know what's happening yeah, he encouraged me. He always has he not. Shall we was the beginning of a completely different cycle. You know, but they the the duty of it was that during that period, where I was like working during the day and everything I call sunny sun is going to play at a place called a half note, yeah really famous place where coltrane plays all those incredible solos and everybody played a half note
it's like when train wanted to play somewhere for four or five weeks, yeah he could play and a half and yeah and nobody else could get a gig just forget about it as no I'm sorry, the train is due for the next month. You just have to come back later and it was saying, was sunny, yeah and so one night Sonny says well I mean when you come and you can go in the club with me, and so I said: okay, som stand outside is wintertime, I'm all bundled up and everything- and look one way and I see sonny walking towards me and I look down the street and his herbie walking tours because I had seen him with miles, but I did know him he I, but we all kind of met like that right. Sonny looked at her visas. Herbie do you know benny. How is it that was even so, what made you make this way? Morgan movie and how'd did you reach out all these guys? There's a very good question, because when you said before how you finally yeah I found it will be similar to me. I think, even if I've been around listen to the us for a long time yeah I made this film about orbit
me seven years after that being a filmmaker, I said myself, I will not spend another seven years making a document about the dead. Just me because I didn't write in seventy six, quite a challenge to us films, fire. I find the people find material on the money and you try to create a film because that's not material left him yeah yet and but then being very music interested. was, I think, eight years ago now I was just watching youtube like to do it at we'll see if there's something I haven't seen or heard yet, and then it was Lee morgan playing without bacon the messengers or it was from ninety six to one in Tokyo it was resole. least solo there in that live. Recording. I never heard anyone play trumpet like that before. So it is like that when I find I think I can listen to its own repeat for weeks, so it you scars on his side. I was still reluctant to do another just but somebody grow on me and this we it's kind of a special guy. I realized and I found them
great musing luck such for the new land, and then you see that who did together live with lighthouse was was new to me, I listen lots of jazz, but I missed lie somewhere in there, but I admitted. Maybe there's a film there we're going to see you do this initial research, how many people still around, is there an archival footage? Can we do something, and then I realised quite a few people were still around like binney, like some other people and I remember in the beginning, I called around and I had a few meetings with him started to to to listen to them, because at this time I only know about the very basics about lie. Like the wikipedia know. No sweeter like he was this. You know er guy that was recorded whatever one at eighteen years old. You know and use a teenager vn and he was with ot lake. He was with this. He he was recorded. I mean he was signed with blue note when he was eighteen. What did you do when you're?
economic clout. Much grammy, that's quite remarkable, and you know you did all those records. What for blue note? I know that and then I know that he was shot by women at the club. in the early seventies, when he was in the young tourists, I did, know anything about this woman, and it didn't see. Many people know anything about her either. I realized, when I read that, and also when I saw those youtube clip, because you can see the comments on earth, do the die, hard lee morgan from said, he's so great? Why is he gone all that that that bitch saddam's burn in hell forever. It wasn't all those rivalry angry anger, alot of anger. Of course I mean paying their internet comments very common but I can see those guys here. She, this woman, took their I'll idle way right, but I'm in trouble those guys that I found it was still alive. Quite a few
started to talk about the last four years and these life and right that then with a woman named Helen and they talked about her look. You did in a very lovely and passionate way, so you knew her benny, oh yeah, most. Definitely we spent a long time together. It seem like everybody sorting, knew her in the scene ass. I was I spent hours at their home of in the bronx via she was always at the yes, she was always handling the receipts him, maybe so that the money was right at end of the night, so he didn't have to be preoccupied with any of that. He was just playing his music. Yeah no coming back here from being you know addicted. She asked him, you know, of course, you know of fighting fight, yeah the sweating and the horrible and yeah yeah. You know got him on methadone and everything. So I got to I get to see him at that time, yeah you know when he was really fighting to hundred to re emerge yeah to reinvent himself and in
and you recorded with him, why can't they live at the lighthouse? That's why he's right here at home, most of the beach at the big album man yeah? Well, we can, and you know of have, started playing with him. He wasn't writing a lot. So I came to a one day and he ah he's any tunes says yeah, I got one, I got one, I brought it with me and we played it and he he messed around with it. He says who this year. Have you got any more as a so pretty soon Those five tunes they all alive with delight at night Amy. All of it is a man. Is your tunes, polish do whatever the hell you want to do with them. You know he says I love playing them and he and he used those tune. my tunes and the hero burns to jamie merits. Chance, everybody wrote It was the only one who didn't write a tune was mickey roker. I had a drummer but mickey added a flavor to the tunes with his with his drumming in his
I shall touch that the tools never would have had had it not been for mickey welcome right. The drama he was fantastic so in since you know his his work was applied, of those compositions sure made come to light right later, the backbone I was really a tremendous. Tell you so you so he's got. You know. He's he's coming back. He's doing good the morgan's kicking at these man, who's kicking some serious and Helen seemed okay. Everything seemed ok to you, a man. Look. We had a lovely time. We spent two weeks in san francisco planet.
It's called a bull fan and during that time we recorded for the radio which ended up being a bootleg, no yeah, it's out there somewhere. I never made a dime from that high cause. Somebody took the master, is nobody know where the masters seeing the record, though oh yeah, we finally saw it, they put somebody else's name on it. It wasn't my name, it was harper's name, but you know I said, hey locals, so be it I mean you know right, that's just the way stuff goes, you know, but we had a fantastic time here in california, because san Francisco was so great and we're playing like six nights a week and you know having great times to just travel around the city traveling with yeah yeah. So everybody was one happy family, yeah man we came here, went out to the lighthouse out of the ocean, fearful. That was really really the feeling I had when looking into those guys. It was like one big family on the island was a part of it and then I realized okay. This is the same woman that actually shortly morgan at and It was like. I was in the middle of a greek tragedy or something where it's
and drama that was a feeling I had in the early, and then I found this cosette. We were talking about hollerin task. Did you find you know this was in the internet era era. Still so so you knew what was out, but but I mean I didn't this research and I found on internet because I didn't know much about Helen S or this guy. He had a blog, loretta thomas and you could read parts of that into he made with her here. So I realize ok, she lived until night, ninety six, okay and he made an interim interesting. I want to hear it so I got in contact with him and he sent me not to cosette but a city of it, and I remember listen to it. The first time was that, while it wasn't, you story she she's telling because she's telling what her life you know getting her first son, which is thirteen when she's fourteen leaving them behind, because he will for another life did was outside. Wilmington north carolina went on and and into new york. Here as the created a new life met. Lee became is in a chair, wife, everything
so took care a lot of guys here. Everyone was hanging out she's making food. He knows The den mother She wasn't aware but that there was a feeling. I had really that this come around three that she was Pado and that this tragic night, when she shot him because everyone was hating- of course, and has been that wasn't part of this family that you were I didn't know they didn't know what she had. to him that she actually helped him through. It was hard years and didn't know, stories. I thought that that was she should be remembered. Also for that part of meanness and add a character. Heaven is wrong to kill someone. Of course. We all think so, but she'll be people. nor not only as the murderer also asked, What is this family and also know you know what went down yeah see there were
The things that happened, nay, yeah, that Lee shared with me personally, because he and I were very, very close He told me one time he said you know. Helen comes from a background where she's been some verily abused by a man ass. She was close to and least sorted described as he was a kind of guy coming from work, and you know she was there. Everything would be beautiful me out. He was very quick cook in abuja, gray, great homemaker. The guy would just start beating her right, so you know the their kind, suffering in a kind of struggle. That is not something. Easily forgotten, I mean you can. can go on from away a lot of women, don't they for whatever reason and She did does that's when she moved away from where we been living. She left all of that behind ran away, but you can't you can't run from
pain and the scars that abusive relationship leaves and the film help me to to to. the sort of deal with my own closure about everything, though yeah Well, you know because we were so close here. You know I just felt they will wow. You know something with terribly wrong. you know, because when I left everything was done, shifting a little bit, and leave was going through some real transformative. Where will you go where'd you go well. I have left him after couple use and we have done all this stuff cos call from herbie, okay right and so as a lie to take to skate with herbie and he kind of pause. You're talking on the phone, and he said man. Do it it's going to be good for you. You know and that's how much she loved me. You know
and whenever I will go back to new york, I mean he was the first person. I call me so I know last conversation we had it was about what he was going through any told me how he was withdrawing from the method. I mere, and he told me I felt he says I feel, and I feel really bad. He is I ache all over my body mia. Is it because anything that strong enough to counteract the withdrawal, symptoms hair? when he has got to be stronger than the heroin right uses. I've given up one have it for another sure he said backing off from it and backing off from it man he says and I'm not feeling good. Feeling good. You know he's telling me I was feeling you know. We know ass oct about feelings right. That was never it all, but he was he had it. we unload because emotionally was going through his changes and then he told me about- woman that he had met and he has spent the night at her house which was kind of like that.
Never an issue after our gigs he went home with Helen hmm that was always it? That was. There was the end night receipts everybody got paid sure but they also away the air ok, so I spent the night out and colorado. She didn't know what to think. You know is he is, he heard have just called hospitals call the police and everything, So, finally, when he did get back home, She realized that there was double. There was a vibe. You know but by then I wasn't there physically anymore, Fortunately, for me, you aren't there now. I wasn't there When I saw cast film in I heard the comments from the other guy yeah. I started thinking about the conversations that, we had had right and how he he pushed her very aggressively
to the point that she ended up being out on the street with no coat and no no and I in it I started thinking you know. I said that kind of violence triggered something that was deeply buried in her life. Hell yeah. She. I know she was temporarily insane as far as I'm am, and he will he was her whole life. He was. He was an and the way she responded, it was it's like for whatever reason she bought the gun. I mean that was the comic thing. He bought the gun. Her yeah, I saw the yeah. I held the gun in my hand, one time went to dinner and least they may come alone shows them take me in there. bedroom, which is lovely. I mean whole. It was fantastic it opens up a and he pulls out this pearl handled revolver, it's beautiful I got this going to do with this right, Well, you know somebody might try to stiff me from redman. I might have to
you're not going to use that, to get one as in no, I don't want anything to do with that. I handed it back to him it this and the cloth and put it back in the drawer. That weapon had been in my hand, You know, and I said this is a great my father used to have weapons. I knew about weapons weapons, but you know that whole exchange, so when I saw the film I started thinking and I started thinking- I said you know from her abusive past. something snapped. Well. She thought that yeah he was with another woman, but not only that it was the aggressiveness of him pushing her out into the street from the club. the club that that that violent act here and with him there was no storm gleamed out with his hands. Yes, it ok. That was the trigger.
She had the god. She went down there with the guy. She went down there with a gun and make a statement of some kind. I dont know if that was what our intentions are and will never know that's right, but she did have the weapon and wanted to confront Of course, you to confront him because he wasn't coming forth and telling her very much here and everything was all caught up in the air and everything you know, but I felt that at the moment she killed him. She killed herself yeah, she killed herself, that's what happened there and you know and I said to note this is really clear. Let me from seeing the film of thy seeing the fail now three times, and I said I got it now- it happened temporarily. She was insane yeah. She never would have done that there. But do you know when you carry something and someone's violent towards you at any, and she was hurt She well deeply betrayed. You know like you all of that, because you know all the guys knew rights
You know, I mean you know they were in the bans here. Then public were right them, but he share with me right dead. He met somebody and he said you know Helen is older than I am and there a with this woman. you know. I didn't mean to hurt her. He says, but so you know at the end of the night, the vibe was such a just wanted to go and be with her you can get out there. She wasn't going to let him go. You know you didn't need to come home and then, when he did, I don't know what. exchange words, I'm quite sure it wasn't lovely because it was, it was painful, so see how and after all this went down you know after I left. I never saw her again until I saw no kin, and that was her. I was just her voice What happened at what kind of time did she do? How did she end up out yeah? This is like a film in itself almost we could make another film, you could continue continue. We had to make a lot of
this when we made it to mean because yeah it looks like pretty short time. she was in there five years and then it's the! what is the anguish and see what she was out in look for a while, and then she moved back with help of her son down to north carolina and started on again and then built another life for her, but from a filmmaking prospect I mean the big challenge in this film was in? Oh, we believe we have the fantastic music, all the blue, not photographs, two thousand black and white fantastic photographs to use from. He is one of the most well documented musicians, from this era, pass from blown out there, you like to dress up decks, like to dress up, and then we had all the footage the when he was playing, but with Helen. She did not like to be photographed, we maybe nine or ten still of her that we had her voice.
How are we going to solve this? I mean imbalance, those two lives up in that was the biggest only something that was It was trying to say before when I first heard her voice. It wasn't just only the story she was telling. That is magnificent. Is the sound of her voice too. So I think when we will in this film and it we were feeling kind of almost like musicality in her voice. I really loved listen to that voice and working with that cassette, recording like like a like a music piece in I think the nicest comment I ever had on this film was when it was shown it was permitted. and then I went to telluride film festival and there but I director peter sellers where he was. There I really love the guy from the opera yeah yeah and he really loved the film and he hugged me and said: hey man. What have you done? This is fantastic and and low forget it was a joy to u dont. Do it the dual between he'll held malino between his trumpet in her voice- and I said, oh wow, that that that was deep,
because that was really what we felt when we added this film. We always was trying to treat her it's story with what saying, but it's also like music, oh yeah, she may well jazz yourself yeah there you go good job were very few elements yeah, I think casper for making the film, because you know I was with a herbie all this stuff happened. I was stunned yeah and I couldn't come back to new york yeah. I didn't go to the funeral because I couldn't year earlier booked all these gigs and you know I was just. I was just fucked up behind it yeah. I stayed high a lot. That's for sure some evidence has some good weed and a great cocaine and shit
yeah and I I got. I was getting higher than a motherfucker, says yeah, you know, but then it got to a point where it started to be abusive and I've always been able to say. Ok, yeah I ended that yeah, you know, but it it just hurt me man and when I came back to new york there was an emptiness that I felt you know yeah. While I can't call him yeah, I can't call him or her or her. I was never angry with her yeah. I wasn't. I was hurt, but I wasn't angry because I loved her too yeah. It's like losing two good friends yeah. You know I never saw her again here until I saw in the film you know, and then it just brought back all these moments that we shared If you still get those they're, the dinners that we had and now she's you know cause I would go up there and and leave a oh man. Let's have dinner
Let's go get some blow and just go out of here everybody and that's what we would do. We might go to three or four clubs in one night I'll tell you the it was a tragic movie, but the feeling at the end was not sad. That's right, that's not easy as that's not easy to do. Yeah you have to you have to get your head very straight thought about this, but I live with this. You would say that the the editing we we added this film over. three year, and so that was very important to really have the time- and I worked with excellent editors when, when making this film saw by was I what is really to coming in from the music side with Lee and was ending with the music in this film And to have that music feeling all through the film, so yeah was a lot to get it because I mean basically is a fantastic story, but you also will have that useless part of it all the way and
so the idea was really to make this film to be experienced in cinema with the right sound quite loud. Through you hear there, the beauty and the power in this music. I mean what way thanks for doing it. Man thanks for talking guys, hey! Thank you. The okay, as I mentioned, I called him morgan is in contention for best documentary feature nomination. So if you are a member of the academy- and you haven't seen it, please check it out about documentaries. I'd also It's got another doc, that's in contention, it's called side, long row the glory about the lives of some legendary blues man. I did the narration for it and I hope you're considering voting for it as well. Okay, dig it so jimmy vines, Jimmy VON. What can I say about Jimmy VON? I was thrilled to meet the guy when I was in high school later in high school. I don't know where I got him. The first two
who asunder thunderbirds records there. Girls go wild? and what's the word Those two records I didn't know who they were, I'm not sure where I got the records. I tend to think that I got them from a box of records from the record store next door. The rb record store next door to where working a high school and they want him anymore. Babe was just like the greatest most fun. You have just kind of swing, groove tech- it's blues music that I'd ever reckoned with, and I just I just loved it and I love the cover it goofy ass cover. Ferguson, jimmie, Vaughan, Kim wilson mike buck and then I saw a sign somewhere in albuquerque that the fabulous thunderbirds can be playing the golden in out on highway Fourteen albuquerque I'll tell Jimmy about this. Like it. That time I was very into buying vintage clothing. I had a couple of sharks
jacket that sort of obsessed with, and then there was a couple, a shiny suits, add gold, pseudonym, silver suit that were shiny. I wasn't quite, but it was shiny. I don't what material was but shiny and got my skinny ties. and you not cut my hair up, I did a little of that. You know I've been I've, been I've been they're in the desert fashion, wise for forty years, forty years lost in the desert. I finally figured it out about five years ago, but I can't remember who I went up there with to see the fabulous Is this old biker bars the golden in which later burned down, but I great time man got drunk in the car maybe smoked. All the weed went in there with my shiny suit and just dance. I sweat my ass off for like an hour and a half man and they just brought the place and it was life changing at least month, changing maybe half a year changing, but since then always I've always loved Jimmy Vaughan. I love the way he plays guitar yet to how I handle
guitar and the imagine most you never heard of him, but jimmy play in new york next week december, first and second at jazz at lincoln center. the most recent album of the Jimmy VON trio with might flanagan is called lie Let's see boys, I saw that band with Jimmy veto in austin, though ass allies, air and that's when I first met Jimmy and I was a little fucking starstruck jimmy vines. A guy makes me starstruck. Others me in Jimmie Vaughan talking, I was the dream in the garage to me. But when I play booze when I want to play with records, I played your first to records. I pointed those federalists under very wrong who, though, like the ones I play too, because at that your guitar sound in your guitar playing was able to me was the best. to learn from and to play to. Thank you that's just the truth of it. That's where I come from.
And I saw you in albuquerque new mexico at the golden inn, is an old bikers bar up this anti a mountain. I was in high school I put on my shark skin suit and when sir you there must be. No. with seventy eight. So you know that the whole thing is a dream right now now It was from the beginning. So you know like like your kid and you don't like what, The way things are gone necessarily or something ain't right, and you get this idea. She, I wonder if I could be a guitar player because you heard of king record again: are you Diane whatever it is. You know that he had a flipped, you switch bright and and you use you just do it because the first volume candy find out. You can do it re a little bit and then. you know, then your your dreams take over and you just go for it and
Then you just sort of end up playing with clapton madison square guy we are, but I think it a mean everybody with a guitar to see american dream in it. It's one of em, one for sure yeah, but I'm here when I first are playing a tour. I I hadda the giant school and junior high told said look, he said if you girlfriend few and girls you had to play football. There's no other way, and I was like really and he said well, you have to come down there on thursday and you have to go out for football. I'm thinking about same thing, I was thinking man, I'm I'm the worst up where school you know, but that didn't. Different, so I went down there and I said I don't even know what to do: He said. Well, you got you look like you're left, f back get over there and that crowd over there. so they they said. Okay, jury one I ran,
their night mysteriously caught this pass? It was an accident and they all piled on me and I brought my car boom. That was it so they sent me home was home for three months. My dad came home from work and said I dunno going to do with you sit here again guitar that he had gotten from a friend of his had three strings on it. So I've been playing ever said since those three strings. and I'll show you a few hemi that damn Guitar I'll, show you what I did. I dunno. What am I an open tuning on another matter, because I only had three strategy. I didn't know what to do, but I had a I didn't know how to do it. So I went That was what I learned. The first day, that's all you need, and I'm still doing that yeah I was so fucking excited when I learned how to do that
it was backwards, but I did it anyway, but you know that that thing that thing and then you and when you learn how to change to the man yeah I could exert still got that bug yeah, that's what drives me excited, I'm excited thinking about it because I learn cords first, but when someone told me taught me, I think it was hockey talk really. I was like. Oh, my god and then Just ended there for me. That was that! Well, I play that yeah. I still play it all night. I love it pretty satisfying right fabulous when we what was the guy like when you were a kid I mean: if that's the way it happened, who was? first booth song. What was the first thing that disney have entered her hand and india go there. The guy everson ready Station called Debbie are in Dallas that came on it at ten o at night. I believe it was play till midnight and they play Jimmy reed
jimmy me ray and they would play lightning hopkins three forgot four, so I would transistor radio and you supposed to go to bed at ten. You know you can, in the bed, with a light out and click that trend it's the radio on, and you can just hear it if you put it to ryan sticker right and it didn't do anything to your head like nowadays, it is black, your ears out? Well, you know nowadays is Oh yeah might appeal the whatever the satellite beam sure you yeah satellites make babies in your brain right here so anyway that was it and then after at midnight I would slip over to xerf, which was wolfman jack yeah and then I learned after that I could get nashville, but you could get all the way out there cause they were the big stations in from Dallas. You can get it at night, I yeah they comprise. That was the horsemen and all that stuff like we're just their country stuff.
well blues, really throw the ball blues. So you're like wait like kid, how twelve thirteen and, what's your brother doing eight yeah but when I got a record player and start playing albums, he I would. Try to play some song I get erect and try to play it. Put it down and say much my guitar. we had the same room you right, then he would pick it up and soon, as I left him- and play same tank, so he he basically started little bit after I did the year and did you take lessons know you never did no I tried to take lessons one time. My dad said son. If you want to get good you're going learn your majors in your minors yeah, I went down to one jefferson in oak cliff to boyd's guitar.
school and I went down there the first lesson he gave me a couple of things. You know notes and stuff. He said I'm not going to tell you what the song is. I want you to learn the notes year. Saucy week I came back after a couple weeks, I finally figured out that it was the melody was Mary had a little lamb, Dan DA da da da Da Da. So I played that- and he goes you're not reading that well. What do you mean do whom we re reply? I can do both He fired me after a couple of as layers and few less let you go nodded it's your kid it's over and what we did start like what you. What was your, what business was your dad in My dad was Anne s best us work. What they called a pipe cover. Oh yeah, yeah s. Health is not real. Health. No now
you know they were insulate. He was called in insulator areas, late pipes june on buildings, big build out, and now is it before with safety, and so I do get from that he died from the black lung. Oh yeah, asbestos boy, but you know that sir. there is a lot of musicians in his local in Dallas. Lot of rock n roll gas, hillbilly, guys and all kinds of people were there because go and make a lot of money. On a couple of weeks, go off on or whatever anybody that you knew record what there is a winner, I don't know his last time, but his name is Leonard and he had a guitar had a big gibson like an l, five or something with two, pickup his name in the neck pearl leonard, and he he told me
he came over to my house. My parents would play dominoes the weekends. He came over there with another guy. They played in the living room while they're playing dominoes- and I said I like electric blue stuff- because you may like this so he start playing. Jimmy radie show me how to play jimmy red chuck berry. And John Lee hooker in one night, He needs show me how it went, yeah sure the what when we had actually played with chuck berry like backed him up, you know oh yeah, a lot of people did, I think, yeah right. could come into town a go who's going to do it right yeah. So he tied those three pretty essential things mats unbelievable. I mean that god sent that guy there. You know for me. You need that guy his great and held her you when they have an obvious about twelve thirty nothing. I just started trying to play so where there are other people, they taught use them all calls on both.
imagine my family. My uncle my mom's side play guitar. They played in hillbilly bands and dad side to see was people You know bill events, well, you know, which was just country at the time: moral travis. You know they like merle travis- and equations and yell share all that study, and so, but you know, when I first playing planet. I didn't know that there was a difference between it. It's cool music right sure I didn't know blues on the radio and bb, king and and all that stuff chuck berry. Chuck berry records and then I met this on a player who was about fifteen years old, maids a grown up in here. He he gave me.
a little walter, album holier than the best a little walter yeah and then he I found you, know, muddy waters and all that stuff, the chest box, but it wasn't a box. it was just the best real album, yeah yeah. Five little walter would yukon it. Yes, yeah man that thing that that's a life changer and so did you play harp at all, Well, no, I mean I tried, but but but you know I'd never play and then I got to make come Wilson. So I didn't really that guy is sort of a savant he's it he's a great harmonica yeah like just a gifted player. So I know I stuck to the guitar how you, when you Well I guess it was in the seventy. So I was probably nineteen or twenty something like that. He was just around
No now he came down, he came to Austin. And I was already playing down there and he came to Austin and came. this place robs planets and said. I want to sit and we should occur any he got up, nearly did the they won't hurt george smith thing you know toward up and show there two weeks later, we're like well, we need to get banned. I think we'll call it the fabulous thunderbirds and he was like yeah easy So you know that's how we got started basically in, but you up in dallas, mostly but I mean I moved to Austin when I was eighteen, so That was a nineteen sixty nine, our silently. I had been playing there I used to play in when I was fifteen. I got in this band. That was a a band played turned a parties in the middle, a lot of money playing turned a corner stuff, yeah, anything beetles whatever
and they were all twenty one and I was fifteen, stay at all weekend, you know yeah it and So I was making the afp three hundred dollars a week. That's pretty good for sixty eight in the 60s let mid to late sixties for a fifteen year old kid better than football whole upper. and there was girls there- I get more girls, the guitar in football. Well, about tat, but I see a lot easier adieu unless you, I guess it was you that the quarterback, but The thing was, I didn't know how to play football. I was terrorism worst football player. I know a guitar worked out better, so you're playing, doing three hundred dollar a week, you're fifteen years old. Did you do? Did you just like quit school or did you stay? I just ran off yeah that was it yeah yeah to austin well I I went to Dallas
First, I went downtown and I had eggs down there aren't we had? We played to place how the seller, nea, for a while and then with a fraternity event. no, that was a different band. I was in a band called the chessmen who I was telling you the guys were twenty one year and we gotta gig. We often fur hendricks dick. And this was when hendrix came out. His first like his first tour of states, yeah so wade s him. You endows in other. Southern Methodist university auditorium him from Dallas with with was popular. At that point, big value. As you know, he was. It was a big boy. some eight filled up the year two thousand in I dunno know how many it was a small auditorium- was at the same time the dead billy open form with these, probably at first bandit his
move inside move inside. Well, I'm I'm sure it was right. So what what was your exp These were jimmy, denies guy He was real nice, but I just remember you know when they came out, and just remember his is in the lead. He did when he came out to see if his guitar was right- We first put it on you. You just wait a little a little more light, but if it's like five times that why I can't even do that for that. I was fabulous. I got some work to do Well, I already knew that, but but he was Jimmy Henderson I wouldn't know. Maybe, but most of those weeks were blues licks Yeah I mean he was he was. He was fantastic as he was. I always thought of hendrick says. You know he was like. muddy waters.
stepson who had just got back from his tour of mars. Yeah, that's right, yeah! That makes sense when when watching like somebody like hendricks at that time. I can't imagine like the cause you pretty straight and you just go right into the output of most part. Right like I just like the light is that the people then He described what he had one or two petals and then just went right into the app just turn that thing out right. It was purity pure, but I have all right now, if you re or in the studio you you can have co right and thanks but basically eddie, he had the unified any hate and he had a first phase. I think something like tat, and so he could all the way up and then the first We'll give you a little more. I guess he was using it for the system in all areas whose just all the way up ever so he could do the space travel.
Yeah, but I mean you know he was he did he did we first time I found the first hendrix record. There is be a tv show in Dallas me. I was a kid I come off from school was calls some miles, it had cheerleaders dancing and they would play records. It was one of those kind of deals after school record party, dance. And I went over there and would go through the the band in the back, the trash bin and they ever put other records they didn't like in there, and I found purple haze to forty five ye foxy. I think I forget. What's on there, maybe fox or whatever it was yeah, and I brought it home and played it because I read a I had seen. His name in a little blurb somewhere near, and so that was the way and that was found hendrix the garbage and the garbage said they had been put out. Yet they just I wasn't academies they're gonna play for their people anywhere and your teenager still
it was so exciting. You know what is it about text And because I you know, I listen to you guys on those Stu fabulous under birds records. You know that's that those are real texan records. And those are those that sound is very specific and at that time First heard, I'm like what the fuck is. No one was playing booze like that yeah it was a it was in I think it almost happened at the same time as punk rock somewhere, in there. Yeah called us. What would they call lou punk or something like that. I try to think of what to do with the china market. Yeah, yeah and I'll comes from a certain number of people that are specifically texas. Well it came from everywhere, literally, but but but in texas, like you tube walkers from Texas yeah. He was the first guy to play the electric guitar on the blues. He's the guy he's the guy he came for. He comes from Texas yeah, he goat, but everybody had to go to l a to get a record or not.
rebuilding, but there is causing here's to your eyes and out, but back in the day we talk and how back before you already right. Okay, thirty five. I think tb, made his first electric guitar record, all the all the lakes are on those records, every lick, that's before world war, two, it's crazy! So if they were all make a heavy. That is and then right next to him was gatemouth brown, who was theirs pitch? I playing together. So t bone goes to allay, gets gigs. words yeah gave mouth goes it takes when t bone goes on. Tour gape, mouthed gets his gig at the whatever the place was. You know out here yes right here, yeah yeah yeah and that's where it spreads, the texas sand, and but some of them you know, go
it's going on in Houston and in the mississippi guys go to chicago right. You know how it is you you, you find t bone walker, you find chuck, berry, samba and then read the back of the album that says, I, like you, know, worker anti bomb says I like jolly grist, so you go Charlie Christian, Charlie Christian, major over here. You hear Jimmy reed, that you got here. You go over there, you just its own, a reverse search here, sir, yet the rabbit or dislike the dots, and so you know I'm still fine guys that I didn't know about really yeah. It's it's! It's! It's a Sport is it'll, never end what So exciting, through the on record magua yeah and then there's now, there's young guys coming up that are that gonna kind of going to be fine. Let me tell you: the blues are going to be fine, yeah yeah harry clerk, yeah yeah, I've seen him, you see him in person. I've seen
by some open for the stones in san diego and that other that that the guy, place within the guy in the pancho yeah. What's his name, pada zapata, he can play to the absolute. I think we're going to be alright. Well, let let me ask you about that that when you were when you are coming up in austin when you kind of settled down the open for hendricks you are. you are, that was in Dallas right with the first ban, but once you To ask any rating years all there's a scene there right I'll ready in the sixty. No, there was only bill campbell and who's that guy he was he played, similar to Freddy king. He was like that he played right and then there was did you see for any king? The many many many times might have already yet is there while man that's heavy, he was serious
yeah yeah, he ordered me mean. Well I mean he was just like Albert king. He was big and and imposing and cool and just and loud and just bad ass is interesting. You us in earlier records just how like fluid he was and then later he just lay into I just riffs and ran deeper. Somehow, I I never could understand how these guys figure out what they're going to play, because when you have there when you're a kid and you have their album beer, you hear the beginning. all the stuff in the middle. How do they know how to solo and how do they know what they're going to play? Yeah yeah, you mean in in the actual song yeah wherever they have they land that thing right, yeah. I don't I've figured it out. There stay in the garage so imagined myself, one time
if I was in the room with all my favorite guys albert care body, guy baby, king freddy king, and they are, we played and we did a around and it got to me. What was I going to do image, screwed it. So that's what you would think that the way that it starts off we get fantasy and then all of a the pressure is on. Well, then, you realize what I guess I thought I was these guys saw me that's well. Then you have to ask yourself: what do I do you? Can from all these guys and you learn from damn you emulate them yet, but when it's your turn. What are you going to do and do what they did. That's right exactly you have to have your own voice. and saw as it could use that information and that's that's what I've really worked on sure. Not that I don't you are
of it yeah. You were conscious of it and, like I, I I listened to these guys. I know how to play like these guys, but to find my own groove. My own thing you gotta, let it happen, I mean you can't you have to ask yourself: what do I do the, and would you come up with me? I well here on the rebel I mean it: it you're, personality will come out eventually keep playing. I think I think you're right. And it doesn't, I'm still trying to learn in and it still changes and you know five years ago I probably didn't play what I play now exactly And what are you? How do you feel that your plaintive you've evolved? Well, I exchanges changes yeah, you play what you want to hear. Yeah yeah, it's the idea yeah, so it Try to you don't play the same thing over and over exactly so now,
you get up to Austin. You know you're starting to play up there and I imagine your stevie still at home in dallas he was when, when I ran away from home, my mother and dad or clamp down on stevie said you know. to do what he did you going to do your school work, you're going to we're going to watch. You don't think about it right. and which just made him try harder on the guitar guitar yeah, so and so he came up when he got out of high school. He came to Austin and you we just down there doing it down there yeah- working it out. Oh yeah, guys get along pretty well yeah yeah, so he came up after high so now. The Vaughan brothers are in Austin. That sounds like trouble to me that must have been trouble. You did pretty good right away, playing around he got banned, it start playing gigs in the devil, travel ban,
or was it if it was triple threat. It was our head of several different versions, always needed three he's coming now. People come and go here and you know it's it's not as much a You don't always get what you want like you, you don't always Who you want. All the time show you they won't play what you want, or they want to do something else or it's it evolves and changes. So after the year, the first couple of thunder: records. I quote, what was your relationship? Those are onto com, a right, the first two and then you use, which way. Both you got you all become you know they leased it to near and right. your pressure to change a sound. really because we started out so crazy. They didn't really know what to do. They want
They wanted us to know like they had some ideas. Hey man we a blue wave were like add and sandra so their child of wage you and what they wanted to figure out? How market aside guess, yeah and in all we wanted to do was can play Jimmy reed or little walter jobs, and they you know it. It took a while go in camp camera, lot of songs and in a wee we would come up with stuff. So that was That was helpful and then in aid edmunds produce at what was that third record of the fourth record and then weak weak toured england yeah right. I hardest to open their tour of england yeah and that's when we met dave and a roof. Nicolo Nicolo produced his first rehab and he was great. I was one of our best records, which record was at
in the mood to tear it up. I don't know the name of timbre rhythm T. Bird rhythm was the name of yeah yeah yeah you like, working with her oh yeah. I was people's gray easily, a guy talk to that. We had a great yeah him danny ever they did day, you're, nothing, but fine. Fine, fine to yeah your song? Isn't it while rock and said rocking sidney right. We worked with nick and then we went on a dead. A few years later that we worked with dave and then in out is that was tough enough? Right, indeed, did did you have you had it's kind of right off enough was our here here in terms of the aid Tough enough here learn and then what happened. Then you did another record dear, like how we, I think we did ten albums altogether thunderbirds sonia Acta and it still- kind of going along without you is it
There are still no one here and what happened was this is my version. Yeah Skims version you! Well, I don't know what kim's version area, but happened was. Is the record company epic records after tough enough came to me and said we want stevie was hitting really hard year, they say we want you to do VON brothers record yeah. I was like ok cause with my dad had talked about When I was a little kid he would say you know come on now say you, boys, go get your guitar stevie out of toy guitar near go, get guitars and play a tune for so and so and and we would play a song play songs. Tv would pretend to play at first and then the person, the the guest would go. Will you guys are pretty good? Maybe you can make a record some day.
So that is, it was planet here twelve years old, the two a playing together right, yeah, so I know tony martell from epic records said we need to make. record on you guys and they all wanted it. and when they want something, it means you, you know it good thing we want to hear yeah. I figured it's better, it's a lot better when they don't want it when they don't want it, there's no money and then you have to talk them into it, and I don't want to do now. It's better, it's better when more than one people one! Yes, yes, so I I just I wanted to do it and Stevie wanted to do it. Stevie had just had a on a grammy from think from his instep record. Oh yeah yeah with it. He then stared record, I got it. Yeah yeah up on the tight wire was. Was that the one on there yeah yeah, the yeah, the schober rick, So anyway he was kind of hitting it pretty hard and everything was going along.
Good form and then the wreck company start saying hey tone Martell said hey. We want Jimmy and stevie and make a record together did. It was really tony martell and am we said, ok and then it became fun and we did. It was fun playing with them. Hoes fabulous. Do you guys did you guys have sort of six cents about, each other work. Had you been playing together long enough? We could it was. It was telepathic, as we heard record I loved here in that record it we said that it came out after a fast but as well. You know I wish we had no idea what was going to happen in order of course not and so, I thought well we'll be able to tour, and this will be fun and record company was excited about two from all long I remember we went and played a farm. They came over in new york, we were at at hit factory or wherever it was, we were recording and some of the
guys came over from the label, the big shots and we play them are the terms and they just like Well that's a hit, and that's a hit worldwide yep. Here I mean it was like tat the area and in what was on that. Russia was mostly original shit. Yeah yeah, you guys road together, yes here and we did though white boot, there was a couple of songs, we didn't write but most and we did haha. and then and then in any like when you were white right after you finished and they, finished it and then stevie at a gig in wisconsin with clapton, and all these people remember any comments you gotta come airbus to be here buddy guy, become an air base. Then, and that's when it happened. So that was a month And the record was already scheduled and we you know the
single was going to be good text and- and we get he hath recommends that we can't put out good texans two's, it's silly under the circumstances it's not going to after he passed the media yeah cause. It was all you know, it was a shock and it's tragic is devas. Just you know all that you know, so you don't want to put out a comedy record right right. It didn't feel right, so so they put out tik tok, which was scanner. tom sticking universe area will have more. yeah yeah how's that then it did all right, the right, the other record. some really good, but it wouldn't I think it would have sold better. If had that not happened, everything would have been better absolute had that night but I mean it was more of a. It was such a shock, yeah the whole thing yeah and he just gotten it together.
You know he's just like jailbird got sober and- May I I throw minds you just add three months we get out. You know what I thought I don't know. If I can talk So no radio by I said I said well, I got through I said if I went out and really tied one one. Nobody would blame me and then right after that- and I thought no My mother and then see Combating come back and kill me baby, all its is what they say. They like you know like that the disease was. A reason was looking for a reason: oh man. Well, I'm You didn't glad at into it? Might so you guys were both out there at the same time this would watch and each other while tear down he got sober first yeah I broke
I a couple of times and went hospital and for the coke. I just yeah drink and whatever yeah, and so he was in the hospital in london. So I called Eric said: hey my brother's down the street at so, and so he went over and visited him. Eric clapton did yeah yeah yeah and that the planted the seed. Did it and then then stevie got so I went straight. got sober and then you know he had it. Two or three years more than me and We will be on tour and he would be alsace. nobody in the room, they would have coaxing iced tea. We stand across the hall with my screwdriver that was about install the area and I'll be like Why come on over? How you're write the devil? Over there
still having a good. I was at that point where I couldn't imagine. with it or without it, up shaken It's that's it! That's that everybody when I quit during airbus, like? man. We are so glad nobody said come on. Man started drinking again right yeah, you are you're, not the life of the party. No, no! So, what's your set list like when you do when you're opening for clapton what he what he run through, you change it up: yeah Where are we party much this week would get out there and play blues and me I do we do a couple of things off. You know each record me I, but not it's not like. We have a radio hit now that everybody wants to hear exactly sure. So We just go out there and have a good time really yaya you playing.
with their original staffer mostly covers what down doing mostly covers, but but yes, some rich putting out a record. I got out organ trio record, coming out with MIKE flanagan on the three and I was on the drums yourself release it It's improper name from england. Rocco began. Do vinyl, yes, great, then I'll take I'll, take one of those vine, so on all those digital things to we want. You want, try play song sure I mean you're going to get to jam on us too just got some lyrics, all right go for it. Let's to row row row habitat yeah, yeah, okay, you go ahead flank or flat.
the out get the chair of the We call upon
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lol law. it. And yeah that was
I tune. Guitar junior. from Louisiana who we all know now, as lonnie Brooks area, Rang out man lying around, thank you. I loved it thanks. Man here you go there, you go me and jimmie Vaughan. Okay with music. So just please be careful this weekend kindly yourself kind. Other people reflect on what What you can do better and how you can be there for others. Alright, and if you want you can fight a little. You can fight a little happy thanksgiving.
Transcript generated on 2022-07-30.