All right. Let's do this! How are you what the fuckers, what the fuck bodies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck sickles I don't know, how's it going on MARC Maron. This is my podcast wtf, come to it today, on the show stephen vans aunt little stephen. Eyes on the show, the guitar player for the eastern band also, an actor played sill the sopranos, He has his first solo, album out as little Steven and nearly two decades called soul fire. You can get that the bands on the road, but he was exceeds exciting man, stephen man's aunt here in the garage with his bandana on around. In sandals, longer was wherein law genes and flip flops. In my recollection, flip flops

as you will never nervous to talk to him will be nervous, but death. Eight year. We after the first few minutes. I think we we got into a groove. and was thing we worked it out. Happening with you. You all right everything, okay, how's work, you doing all right The house has everything with the home life. Ok, how the kids all right, how the boy for now For now the husband has the wife everything good as your mom and dad everything all right holding up. No, yes, now sorry you're going to be okay, you'll be okay right. god, damn man, I am back at it running around. As you know, somebody from house to house not going door to door, but I'm recording here in this garage. Until I get my recording situation tight, the other joy and kind of weird I'm and appreciating things more, it's strange when you you sort of move things out of the house, it takes on different smell. I guess when

our cats actively shooting in it three of them all times of the day and night. It takes on a different two different smell surprise that when you're your house is filled with shitting cats and pissing cats, how it changes the changes, the the aroma of the home make myself do the comedy you know it doesn't take. You know I don't have to force myself, but I need the outlet man. I fucking need out. When I need to work shit out, you know what I mean I just it's where I work shit out, yeah out there doing the work, because there's stuff going on in my heart and my mind, and I got a hit you know. Sometimes I pull back. The stand up, but then I realized I will do. I can talk to this stuff about If it is in a room full of strangers, if I don't get stage, I literally begin to lose my mind in a more

seems to be of a very real way. I sort of become isolated inside my own head and I don't like I don't like theirs. There's always this emotional storm sort of brewing up inside my brain and inside my heart and I'm unable to communicate it and in any you normal way to other people, and you know constantly absorbing things in just feeding storm feeding fire and it just there's, never anything passive in my brain like if I'm not talking I'm, like you, know I'll, seem distracted. I'm just shut the fuck down. Nothing passive, I mean some things are, are not on the daily docket and some things I just don't know about, but but there is an agenda up there, my head and it requires vigilance to manage because it is not always a pro mark agenda need to be on stage two or two, make sense of my world. You know what she's just a fucking mix

my perception myself in the parts of the external world, the compounding into my mind into my eyes. At all times, I'm look, relaxing would be nice, it would be nice, but I just have this This calling in my I dunno calling, but I find myself saying, like I just gotta figure this out. I just gotta figure shit. I just gotta figure it out, but maybe that's the bad habit because I'm guessing I'm not ever going to figure it out. I should just stop trying, but I can't so there stand up. That's the process And yeah, I made a little headway on some new bits. The other night got me excited. I was there's not going to be any more pets after I dump an hour plus out into the world on a special, but then it starts it just starts. I get read about one thing and just starts to bleed out and spread and there's a free mine. That starts to happen and that sort of the that's kind of the wild. that I need a yoke,

the ones are out in the real world, which are terrifying and destructive. I'd rather have the wildfires in my brain. You know, that's fine, that's fine! It's usually about percent controlled and generally fueled by comfort and discontent I mean- and I've talked about this where I think many of the reasons I feel those things have eased, but fortunately, or not, there's a bit at the core. A bit of of of of a discontent and discomfort core that will never ease up until I let go. One way the other right. You can feel that you could have like a piece of mind if you just surrender bit, let go go go of the year, but that let go. But I be honest with you, I do not I am not really trying to let go, which should really be go, but I don't know what I would be. If I did let go and clear The fear of that guy is bigger than

just being the anxious dread filled freak that I am most of the time just stoking that fire. Seventy controlled my brain, my my mental wildfire controlled trying to fucking, get it you oughta, wanted out. So the sort of managing it managing it, they like stuff grows behind it in a year or so you know once it's done once it stops yeah but never stopped fully stand. Stand up, is the treatment, the relief, the reaching out. I mean I must assume all of us have that a bit at the court that discontent that unanswerable stuff, that itch yeah I mean everybody has that right. We also we are sorted. No, it's a rip off right. This whole thing right, a jew can't we know the end of right wing. we know that you know the vital I'd leave.

We know- and we know that that final, the phrase. Don't we alright? So it's Chris maybe you should go by waiting for the punch words to live by from the wtf asked for your friends Ralph, family, then I mean get it where you get books steven is here and, as I said earlier, his first solo album is out in nearly two decades. It's called so fire and it says it's a soulful records, r and record man is good, big band. big bandits naked man and you also see him with his band the disciples of soul in brooklyn and red bank new jersey this week go to stephen dot com for tickets and he just released a or the ramones merry christmas. I don't want to fight tonight. You can get that the digital single. This is me and little Stephen talk

so when you touring like does it wear you out again I mean Jesus yet you're a little older than me just get tired now you can like always it gave me leads right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't get jet lag because I'm always careful it doesn't really. It doesn't really affect you that much we get into that zone where you just sorta, half awake all the time, then it's time to play my whole life and has described my whole life. It's wild, but I guess you know what else you can do. How do you handle free time while at all, can you do it? nah. I don't really have any yeah when you're a writer yeah, you know of any kind. I think the you never have any free time

It's true, but like? Are you able to sit down, maybe on a boat or you know, at home or or in another country or on an island? Anything? No! No! You can't do it. Nah? I had a vacation once and I think seventy eight and I didn't like it. That was it. I didn't get it yeah everywhere. Where did you go? Maybe that had something to do with it? My wife got me tickets to the super bowl in miami nice or are you a mine, family guy yeah, I like it. I mean I've always I've always wanted a house, you know on the water somewhere, you know, and I never have done it and that's all I keep it's like one of my rihanna sees. I'm cure. Keep would keep a lot. I you might wanna bite a little inland now give orders creeping up. Was that the vessel? What's one problem

well, the hurricane thing also is kind of like you know, yeah, I'm looking more like you know, mediterranean, something like a little calmer after yeah the coast of italy somewhere exactly, but that's just a fantasy. I'm never going to probably do, but that's interesting that you know you you act like I have those fantasies and- and but I I I believe that have a bit more revenue than I. Jvc. We think that buying a house don't be so sure I didn't do a lot of things I get you know, yeah, making money and hold and hold on to. It is not one of my things that you can make it, but you can't hold onto it. I mean you know who who else travels with the fifteen priests been yeah right? I got thirty people on the road and playing clubs.

It was there. I got an arena, show in clubs right now or the love of the craft over the music. It's an expensive hobby. Okay, live as let me explain that to you right now. The record sounds fucking great though vacuuming. Thank you. I ain't you know when I listen to like ever listen. I did. I did two things today that never did before. I wish in two to your new record, and I listen to hearts of stone which you produce right yup and like I? Never. I was never like a southside johnny guy and I hadn't listened to him in a long time, and I just put it on and I'm like you know, the theme of the sound that you are part of that. I have to assume that you helped invent runs, through it and it seems to go. We back to like stacks into that kind of stuff. Right. You got this new records, it's real so records are real and be record. Yeah full force, yeah yeah I just decided you'd only go back to what most known

for you, what I'm most uniquely known for it in terms of my identity, which is that rock meet soul, thing yeah that we created with southside I know three albums in them and then also did a reunion record in the ninety's, which is probably the best of them all the reunion. What's outside yeah called better days, you get a chance to hear that one, oh yeah, that's even the probably the best one of them all, and then I carried into my first solo album All five of my solo albums were completely different musical genres. Every single one of my my descried just changed completely because it was all about the politics back then for me right and the music kind of came second in a sense of complementing whenever was saying you know, so I wasn't worried about consistency or fear or anything like that, which was quite naive, looking back on it, of course, but it was just an artistic adventure for me I do. I was looking at it like

we're like a right, well, you're, also delivering. The message was all about the message: yeah yeah. So this is the first time and was because of the political atmosphere how different it was different, was in the eighties and now a very, very different political atmosphere, and so was I felt pretty bad now. Well, I mean the the lyrics of the song hold up wiggly well from me that which is good and bad yeah, but the monsieur back then was. I felt I felt obligated to be shine some light on things that were kind of hidden and people thinking A region was god, and I really didn't and listen, a bad things going on around the world. Yes sure- and I felt like so many somebody needs to like start talking about this stuff in a bigger way. and so you know I back, then you looking for you looking for your justification for existence. Hearing me I mean like

Did the world really need another? You know romantic album of love, songs, side man irremediably. I didn't think so. Let me look. Let me came when you find albion is unique. It's all be the political guy. You know that was like what for voice of america. All of them are five, really and and plus sunseri right right outside the city. I remember sin city I said I was very excited about sin city yeah. It was very, very successful. Made a difference. I think endeavors brought down the government yeah. If that make it There were a jail. We did you get back. That's but it was it was We are again a lot of the stuff was like bihar. You know it was hidden. You know all that bad stuff we were supporting around the world. No, no! No! No! No! I got no reason to explain donald trump. I mean he explains himself very well every single day and I find

liberating in a funny kind of odd way, I feel like wow. I can make a record that is not political without feeling guilty, because I keep this by bite by default the most transparent administration we've ever had because he can't shut up that guy. god he has that quality of like complete. You know an odd kind of courage. It is kind of paradox because he's one nothing he says is true yeah, but everything he says it is. Is weirdly, honest and, at the same time it's his true These are quite obvious, but he's either, even though everything you saying is broken well, you know, and also as an east coast, guy you're familiar with the character very and he's really simple to understand. If it's just all about the money- and if you understand that yeah it solves a lot of the problems you know like in terms of trying to the stand right, motivations and things like that. Just think of it, as but, as you know, which probably will keep us

out of will words rate makers that could well. Do you find a way to profit from it? but now he's the front man for a band of fucking craven. Well, you know fascists and religious fanatic. This is the point yeah now you're onto the point yeah, okay yeah. This is the danger right now we're facing is is not final trump. I think he's just a massive distraction from the real problem, which is the republican party dismay. doing, the whole thing. Well, I just you know, and- and I I carry I I my attitude is like we need to save the republican party. Okay. This is my attitude. Alright, as a republican. Now as an independent media, I feel as if we can get a third party together in this country, which has said we really do need one honour. Ok, we're probably not gonna get it

we need at least two years and will need two that can have a reasonable discourse of having your intelligent, and you know, calm air, unlike reasonable people who can you know who can re reason with each other at earth, you know, and my father goldwater Republican yeah, marine, you up with that. Yes, I was the generation gap and and I look back that I'm like he would not recognize the party at all. in other words the true go. Water republicans are like more like libertarian course. You may ask, then, that them in a religious and yet forcing their religion on people and all we all those guys around, but now there's a whole new breed of like I don't give a fuck about anything republican well well, yeah, but that, but is really. His base, some of them yeah right cause. Now I mean it's only two issues really when it comes down to it, it's only two issues where they're completely irrational. On the one hand,

and on american on the other issue, which is which is the environment which you know I never understood how the environment became a democratic issue. You know what I mean, or is it isn't it all the survivor or the planets yeah yeah? I mean like so what pisses me off- is this these nice little terms. You know the warming and climate change. I'm like. Why can't we just call it poison? Can we just call it the pollution does not stop confusing people or poisoning the ship or living on yeah. You know what I mean like is poison. it was then how you will favor of poison. I don't quite get that threat this era or the irrational part of the republican party and in the other issues as equality. You know I mean that's completely anti american un american to not believe in equality for women or for gays or whatever. It may be that race everything, but that's all

on religion in my mind, but I goldwater above that's interesting, so where you grew up in jersey, their rank it. So when you were a kid we going at it of a old man. We we won't tell you, we were the generation gap that people talk about, we were the exact opposite for a while there till till it actually to be out of the house new jersey to Boston many years and they might really remember that they are not now. No, I don't remember of my remember my grandfather, taking me to the italian section, then very way. That's why I remember my mother remarried, the dutchman were adopted me and got me the dutch name, and so that's who he, as your father, yeah. I never knew my original father yeah, which obama it's her percent italian. Did he pass or There are many years going higher say: never, never norm never met him again. We also, like you

but he was alive during childhood. He has never saw them right. Well, if you are right about that, yeah I'm like the guy who adopted me. That was the ballsy move, yeah yeah and those in the fifties. Man know that you know to marry a woman with a kid: did he have kids I will get two more after me. Oh really, oh you're, my regular brother and sister good guy. Yeah yeah very conservative ex. We know what a republican in every sense of the word, and so when you get thrown, I ass saint emigrants shown us, last year, I left your high school and what year was that, so that the country most men coming apart? Seventy seven sixty eight how then avoid the dress? Well, I went that they got drafted and went down there and had a long talk with the guy and I'm like so explain this to me again. the long term. I don't get it you can you

why I'm going ten thousand miles kill somebody I have no problem killing people as a diversity issue that has to be done. You know what I mean when they, when they land on you know when they land on in belmar. Here I'll be the first one down there with a gun and that selma. But but you know until they you know attacking you know: seperate yeah. I don't get it the boardwalk so yeah part one for this is plain to me, and I shall tell you about I miss you, my guy stop right. There were what what's come, isn't exactly. I couldn't even begin to play with that was Well, it's you know. Dictatorship it's kind of well but you know not even know about the history at that point. So in the end you know where this conversation it and I'm, like you know the same for me: baby Alright, thanks for by allied just fill out

column, a column b. He says check check of whole column b, which is like. Yes, if I go drug addict homosexual, you May I assure us hobby, although things up Whatever was that early autumn, yea personal, it's surprising that they, let you do that well, you know, I don't think they are looking to put people in jail, exactly you know yeah. If you really feel strongly about it, I don't think they really cared. You know, the main example- you know that of muhammad ali. You know with rice, which was a tragedy when, when did you start playing just a year before the beatles hit? You know I make my grandfather started. Teaching me to guitar like sixty, I was twelve or so, or two sixty three sixty yeah sixty two sixty three, your grandfather here, my tell you my mother's father, taught me the song from his town in Calabria,

I have every town had not yet So I started learning that and then of course february ninth is the big bang you ninety sixty four everybody very everybody, your generation, that night that night was it without a doubt of the big bang of roger or man. You know people the little older, the big bang. With the same tv show. When I was eight years earlier, when he wouldn't be Elvis it's wild, though, when you think about it- and I know you do think about it- cause you're you're in it all. The time is that you know rock and roll as a form is not that old yeah. What fifty seven fifty? What do you? What do you think was the first rock song rocket. Eighty eight around the clock. We talk about this stuff. Yeah I mean you could you could you could say that I mean certainly rock around the clock with the first big success. at the first number, one rock and roll yeah yeah. I know on it's second release sure as it as the theme song to the to the movie blackboard jungle that kind of open the door and then soon after

Elvis had them number. Would you with heartbreak hotel? that was right after right, after So that was a one two punch that really said he now here we come here yeah, I'm just called this called is going to about to stage a coup. The chart so yeah yeah yeah. That is slowly slowly. You know try to take over Cuz, rock and roll was not pop music. Yet it was it. A cult Really up until you know. started to ill. In the fifties I mean the the brave white dj's, like Alan free, you know started playing these black records for white kids. You know yeah for for a little money, decide hey baby, hey. I do like that money spent alright money well spent yeah yeah, you know, and- and he took the money after he played the record not before. Alright, which was I would do for me without her. So was not pay all proceed.

I would it. We were rather too much something that's right, yeah leather. I would write my my soul. so he gave a gap invites usalliance dot. Org is a rocket. Eighty eight, say how many more years here for how a wolf you could see, no, both of which were produced by their fellow unbelievable genius. For me we restore or the big of the modern. You know songwriter producers and a began to have that bigger sounds they brought strings in phil spector, of course would have. That the big sound with horns by not featuring a horn so much, but they were with but they'll be part. a big filet here, yeah yeah, yeah eighty two earliest, all I was was was motown and I'll. Motown was really the first to start combining strings and horns and mac

vocals and to me the motown model is what I'm using now. You know pretty much yeah, but you had some. We had the four seasons also making big records, so the big records were leiber, stoller, phil spector motor. And Curtis mayfield lay underneath the song and there is a little charisma a little on the new, but also, but also all so well to saint new, an enormous yes yeah yeah they get a combination of memphis and enough when it is a shame that, like as a as a guy who grows and become a sort of you know a student of all this stuff that still at the beginning the thing delivered. The message was the beatles, and then you had to go back and get stuff. I never heard of any this stuff livelihood of childbearing right We're not entirely wrote a muddy waters, I never were we about italy, anniversaries people he always I knew Elvis presley name- would become My grandmother used to buy his records and dance around in the living room

very likely that never that cell was present that's all! I was so when he started playing what we plan well right after the italian folk song, I went right to the the was the beatles. You know that, first, when the beatles hit february, ninth and sixty four, they keep in mind. We we got introduced to the beatles halfway through the career, yeah, okay, there It was his fifty eighth and they were gone and sixty nine. So we we met them halfway through the career, so they were quite sophisticated. They were, they were so sophisticated beyond what we could relate to in a in a direct way, but but it, but they opened up a new world to us, his eye, while with that first record the second, we are offering record what may we we? We got the second record thinking it was the first year of the meat, the beatles right. Actually, with the beatles, which is actually the second yes, but we got it first right, which was choices remarkable because of its composition level. At that point we crazy things I think about it, but

but they, but they were. They were too perfect that near the harmony was perfect. The hair was perfect, closer perfect. It was an it was here. is another world which was the most important There was another world that, without out there, that we could now as the aliens have arrived a misfit in his jersey freak. Not fitting in anywhere right. Maybe it is hoped, will you uncomfortable within him? I couldn't relate to anything, nothing, nothing, zero, like an alien for another planet weight and waited for my ship. The everything variety might give me back my plenty amy where's, my agenda here and here comes right- that spaceship lead in central park in the beatles cut came out here, but but they were too good now and then and they play five same thing, really really good,

and then, but luckily, four months later, rolling stones came down, which was just changed. Everything dirty real dirty the loose and they didn't have the harmony. And you know the the though there's a little sloppy lose your blues. Clothes were different and and the border. The moment a changed, my life, the area of the second write another moment the changed. My life was the majority of the first time he was the first guy in a in show business than I had ever seen the who did not smile he hates guy. Yet I never seen it is estralla. If you look, think look, look, look at all the show business people up till then riot there all you have a good time and can entertaining entertained. Yet there was showbiz sure Well, him not smile into me was okay. This is the lifestyle not show business case, for I am ass. What I really related to us, like ok

That's that's! That's because the beatles with the matching outfits that was still showbiz yeah, clearly very polished, various yeah that was show business because that that goes back a bit the matching outfits. They did what they were white guys doing it. Alright, then, so, then the stones come out. It's like hey. What's scarf where that guy get those boots. Why is that guy unhappy, there. A way of life. That's right, big difference here, okay to me, that was it and so of course they made it look easier than it was a mean. They were also fantastic, which you it's an early. I like what you could you noticed that difference, because what would you say the difference was between the bills in the stones. Essentially, imagine these battles were of a pop, vocal oriented group here and a stone's were blues instrumental orient. Group, there is instrumentals on the record sure right away. Yes, I right. Yes,

that was weird right on that. First out boon did he's working on twenty seven and I got a witness to mental that maybe on the Fianna my jangling there, only one was onto a by five, but but you know what they were. They were, MR males, right away. You know both Miguel Brian would play harmonica and you new one. The new stones, booze record, yeah key back on our market is pretty sounds good, where I was good and while I wish you spoke, more time on it. But but, but you know you are good at this game more day, get great enemy zealously. Somebody encouraging them to take it to the next. but as a regular course we're one

maybe make or get it. Maybe he'll get a great idea. Well, he was good, but you know Brian was better, you know on the heart, yeah and you know and make. I think he could be good if he actually applied himself and I think yeah cause he can single out the notes. You know he's a feel for it. He noticed some good things, but it should be great which it could be that could be put down for a decade or two exactly. You could tell yeah it's like okay, he's kind of getting back into it, but come on nick. work a little harder to come by. You know who else you guys are like still the greatest thing and- and that was the most successful record I think in decades and for them, which is great, it was pretty exciting records and brought them back to their roots, which is which could have been their first record, that that that lineup of songs could have been their first rack. It was great, it was a great idea and I'm glad they pulled it off. So what was your first band? well. I I join a ban. The local ban call the shadows, insurers in jersey as a singer. Yes,

shortly after that was sixty five and six by sixty six, I have my own band called the source, I had stolen the name from a group in in in new york. I go up to greenwich village, on the weekends, at the cafe, wha and see groups in the afternoon great sixties, yeah, six thousand yeah sixty six sixty oh yeah, who'd, you see why just Mr Jimi hendrix he was just there and then england yeah. I just missed him, but I saw the only the only the only notable name really was in that group. The source yeah took the name from was im john hall, who would later become congressmen, congressman yeah. That's that's your that's rock and roll in the late sixty S and he and he was phenomenal back. Then he was a genius really a musical genius and he became a congressman really yeah got. out at the moment in a bloodbath of a few years ago, the source

I was in aiming to bear my besides what that means in, and that was my first real being when we plant a thing, Thirdly, a desire and reading originals, our own owner. We were doing album tracks. We were doing still some some top forty like we do. We would do some temptations and some hits at the time. we are also doing tracks from the who. First, album and the younger was, and us I feel as you do so by by you know, by sixty seven sixty eight. You know the fm radio. started in the album thing has started so a kind of combining right somebody it's on radio- and I am radio with somebody would fm stuff in when you start writing I started writing right away and I don't really like anything. I wrote for for a seven years I literally I was like. I was writing it. Just going away like this was

getting anywhere from your point. All down the shore. Must we get? There was a wonderful time to grow up one. Time we are we we are, we kind all place of places to play. We high the high school dances, VFW the VFW halls we had. We had the beach clubs, you know Are you? Would you grow a middle middletown but was just whatever was twenty may in the ocean, so you know is this. It was a wonderful. Our generation was very lucky that way we had actual teenage nightclubs, cheryl latina de vous was one of them. Was your first electric guitar I have a profound and in an I trade and fertility, castor retaliate, and and and one day you go in, and you know that me and bruce had become friends and- and we actually became even closer friends by running into each other in greenwich village on a week, how you doing the same. I was in the late sixties, yeah kissing, sing, sing

bands there who were a year ahead of new jersey yeah. So we would pick up things and go back and make our bands c ran into him there. So we became even closer. What is new and from the black kind from the circuit yeah he's a ban, everybody. There bands in america February eighth, the beatles play february. Ninth february, tenth everybody had a bath. It was like that mostly in the garage right, rehearsing yeah well, maybe a dozen groups in our area came out of the garage and actually played so you knew them all, and he is was one of them. Mine was one. What was his career? The cast deals, I had the source and he was singing implant yeah yeah. We were both down front now, actually yeah, but yet the the singers also in a band yeah, I think the but you I was a figure for me right for him in and league attar and arranger, and you know basic yet leader, you know so you get the source he's got the cast deals in

here you see Jack each other round, then you run into an inn in new york yeah on the weekends. So we became even closer from from that, but why music right away? That's why we talked about yeah. That's it we're both. Was he a telecaster guy then too, although this is the point so yeah, so so, no, and so at some point he came from. He says you know, I'm thinking about switching you know can I can I switch to the telecast. He asked my permission. yeah because you couldn't your your you know you are you would at. You worry a good time says Israel. If I was a tele guy, you know so he asked my permission to become a tele you know the neighbourhood, as I said, I'd or else was to some miles us forces us. Rather you. If you had a switch yeah. I am everybody. Had there there you are their sound, their thing yeah, so he switched it. Do you went to tally, he stuck with it a stock? Would it

Is it easy to tell the guy yeah man all the way? So when did you guys start playing together right after that? We started. You know Yeah we've a different band, every three months for then sometimes he play in my band since I play in his band. yeah and we started playing together right right. Then sixty eight sixty nine. What was that first call with your band? Did before didn't you guys do that hard? man together with you in a hard rock mongolia. He started that you steal mills steel mill. It road. I mean hard yeah, hard, when it was hoped for then my term. Were you in that was more yeah. I played bass in a band and I had a sunday blues band, He played rhythm in there for a while, and these were bands that played gigs all these different, be here sundance will be on. Was that? Was it a blues band yeah straight up? southside johnny in that one.

You know, just you know we're just finding finding our way. You know what I mean you go through different phases at a country after a while what was well geez, some stupid, you know cause. It was some of the some other guy. That was the main guy here, I'll, be something here. It wasn't even that joint y'all started living in and hang around down the upstream club. That was the main. You know, that's what I mean that was you there from at o'clock at night until five in the morning for kids right. This is for no booze. doesn't like it. I may on the yap, indeed people you know where you all living at a surf game.

We serve our little lady who, who bruce or live in a surfboard factory off and on yea, I'm sure that was good for the lungs. If he or you didn't know. I stayed there a few times, but I was like this is not for me. Then me and bruce moved to an apartment in asbury and we had another apartment where me and southside johnny and others live together, So we know we can live in the other. More less money was that it was at that their kids club there, the alps page, I was like the the place where everybody met. We were. We met gee. I'm right, you know, like really lopez, day, very c and gary talents in well, those guys were living either in asbury or neptune, or you know, yeah We were kind of like the jersey shore, guys who came down So I quit playing at some point like seventy two I was like man, we missed it missed the boat, all the great stuff

oh yeah villa over it's over, so I saw construction on the highway and play football. We can and I broke my finger still bent to exercise my finger. I in his band playing piano here and at ban ended up becoming the backup group for, though veils ani always call the only circuit right now all the circuit was a reduction and tragic Go to thing because all of these, the british invasion came over and you put all the heroes out of work. at the meeting, but also introduce this country to the blue. Well, it did it. to all of their heroes, which we, which you know we all learned about and then put them all We have the same time like two or three is right and if you add two or three hits who had two or three years for the rest of your life right now regard. I was it says it is.

yeah, so they're all pissed off being called oldies and they're in their thirties and early forties and they're touring together right on a bus, five or six of 'em yeah well well, yeah, the richard nader oldies circuit rhino, which would which you know I played the garden for the first time with that I have with her. You know Oh yeah, just a back injury as well, though veles yeah and then later with dion dion, but little richard both you and everybody was waging a yes you then I wouldn't play with the more you hang on the same show nice. It was nice to me I unbeaten all cool people, but they're all pissed off. You know you felt that the bitterness sure sure sure, because that's where they cause they restock dared to make a living. Yes, who have suddenly there heather life taken away as opposed to the very next generation, starting with the second generation, starting with the bills of stone the second, the fans would go, them forever all the way to stadiums and are still with still right

right, I guess but accessed roundly, partly in the south, in those cases are now seventy yeah Is it weird? But why did our first generation get get shafted? And I will never know it is one of them crazy things, but anyways Am I wanna among a circuit, my eyes, and I said to myself: I been writing songs, five, six, seven years, whatever was by and yeah and I and I just hated everything I was doing so. I said: let me go to school in my head: yeah, okay, so where's the start. And I don't thinking about it. You know I'm looking at looking back in history. I say: okay starts with wood, leiber and stoller right. after a generally remarks. Dollar to me is the beginning of song. Hiding in that sense, we know that became the song, the song writing that we know you know. doc promised to or doc oh yeah? I was there and Schuman and you know the bridge building, and I know all that you know wrangler, but for me I just pick that liberty. For me, you know which

Is your weaver installers? Well, I liked I mean I, I dug everything back to hound dog with big mama thornton, and you know what I mean. Kansas city was no slouch jailhouse rock, standing on yeah, now sheer ruby baby. Forget it the best. These guys are like the. but is, as so I say. Okay, I'm gonna write leiber stoller song for the drifters in my head. You know yeah, and so I wrote, I want to go home, and that was the first song I felt like. Okay, that's a real, that's a real song. You know that that makes sense to me in a historical sense, you know Yes, I didn't have. I met benny king, but I didn't have the courage really to give it to him that point, I wouldn't have known what to do with it anyway, so I ended up giving it the southside johnny, and it became this the first record, but but that was the beginning of song. That's why so I is for this,

well in the original way. I pictured it, which was a lie singer answered by the the background vocals on the one I just listened to yeah. I gotta listened to him marcos, yeah yeah, to persuade yeah yeah except persuasions, honoraria yeah, okay, Greer, though that was you know. I know you did that that that bruises, my This is actually the couple covers what I've never done before, which was so much fun. You know this is, that great that's a great line right yeah, it's great! I know I wish I wrote it losing my business and business The business in your neighborhood blues is my business, and business is good. Yeah yeah, it's okay. What this is about says it yeah. That's right! Yeah, it's an etta james song covered. in Jay and I code a james brown song also on his, which the first to come, I've ever done. You know him, I really gets wasn't. It was a nice can overturn the airport right yeah, you know about, and you get into business. You know, you've got your own thing going and going to me. It's not like you know,

This is a nice opportunity to introduce myself and including some A lover of songs, The blues out here put a doo wop song on area, the things that you know really where I'm coming from and productions real crisp, real good yeah. Thank you man, yeah mascot on me and I'm not an engineer just santa ANA and Bobby clear mountain mixing it so he you know he's good he's good for me because he I got a lot going on. You know in any key keeps I like a wall of clarity, and I mean that I want you to hear what it right playing yeah, but at the same time, not too much separation it's a I get a weird gotta philosophy with wooden. What music that Bobby Bobby really seems to us: and which is the wall of clarity. Yeah yeah, it's like I don't want too much separate Is it cause? I I you know. Stereo was the beginning of the end for me, and I mean I get an only stereo. Only digital you can just you can just wipe all that stuff out yeah that'll, be just fine, but you know I

I want. I want sound when you walk into a room in a band's playing you. So you can pick out that you can pick out everybody's playing, but it's not is integrated. That I can feel that now that you say that I, like you, open the door, it's like wow, exactly and then you're like oh that deck yeah. It all comes together when he wanted to, or you could focus on that guy. That's right as opposed to what phil was doing, which was which was genius, but but you know he was intentionally. finding things. So you don't really know what's going on. You know what I mean. He's, got fifty sixty things going on yeah and you're, not you're, not here and yeah the very elaborate white noise. Yes, you know, but here he picks out. Then we important particularly here tambourine. He makes sure to refer to eventually hit ribs but

but yeah. I was. It is a slightly different concept from that, but it comes from libor stalls productions, a cultural motown come from phil spector a little bit and and and the Curtis mayfield records. You know would the impressions in and after even his solo stuff. You can hear all that stuff on this record yeah and now to ST louis in new orleans yeah. I just got a few of his solo records. I've been getting into the vinyl thing lately and I you know I'm not. For me, like all this stuff is new things, you're always new to me, cause because I never heard it before. I mean you know you know when you grow up, you hear the hits. You hear the music that you brought brought up with and now I'm fifty four and yet every day is like. I never listen to this, oh yeah, it's no, it never ends. No no is a lot of stuff. Man is lost last me and when I started a radio show, I'm like okay, I go back and listen to every record ever made because I want to reiterate that a lot europaea now still are still working. The male is receiving his leader of your leg, tat. I never heard you know so I just wish,

ten years after his first record. For the first time As you know we are alright, now is. Things a gig better? Some things get better later? Yes, so you didn't you're getting this education with these cats, so you know, when do you and bruce sit down start hammering the shit out? Well, I came back from that. Oldies circuit and started says johnny asbury, jukes band, johnny and and yeah there's a going very well great, and then and then we we found his club will called the stone pony which right which the the roof had caved in and they were going to close. This is like an picturing. It may be completely making this up, but, but I picked be unlike July, and they want to stay up my one one month to get the summer crowd fan close the playground cause it. We ve been a hurricane fear and roof. Comrade caved in yes, and so we went to a man

First time in history we said to them: listen will play for the door. bar, but we going to play whatever you want, donut before the new jersey. Do I have to play the top forty right I'll, take all the top forty. So I can can understand, what's happening here, as he was all about this and back the people. S in Iraq are all right. Mind right here, nobody silly by their surrender on fifty years, but back then you do ass to rock and roll on your job. You were dance band, you reckon dancin or you didn't work. You know yet and others thing, I'm sure it was true for the beatles in an amber, gone, even stones. You know ma and enrichment in a crowded clubman you know it was important that good people danced in anyway so we got a chance to play where we want to and when we just started as a start to write like I said we Can I don't want to go home and said it was a drifter song was and

I play in all kinds of different things: otis redding, SAM Dave, album tracks, you know from those guys with the jokes, yeah yeah, yeah temptations, album tracks and the no we introduce reggae harder. They come had just come out and obvious, you're doing it with your sensibility, As you know, you guys are interpreting this music. Yes, yes, so we had right away. We started evermore section also started is starting to be a combination of rock and soul. right away. Yeah right and I figured that was going to be our our thing. You know it just happened organically yeah, so we did for a year or two, and I was leading the band you know, but also managing it and doing all the business. And they re worker those club on reserve- all pay me a shared, oh, so after it, Here too, of that also I was hanging out because his first two records did nothing and-

about to drop them by asked american history, chef, yeah yeah, I mean, did you know ten thousand records like what was he like when you guys thought when he got the deal? Was everyone in the neighborhood like here? He goes. One of our guys is like oh yeah yeah, it was, it was thrilling. Yeah did a very good sign, but the he's making nothing in the music business sure we got. people a night repeat three, three with ice we are in milan. You know haven't made that much money. Syn fifty dollars apartment. I make it like nine thousand dollars a week. So bruce starts hanging out with us here and he had a little notoriety because he was saying- was depressed now not an hour now he was always very philosophic about a mastery one it's about the same time.

He wasn't going nowhere. I like we, we did a guy said for us. It became a lifestyle there. It was now We have a show business, wrangles regularly that desperation right had so busy desperation varied. I have you like a widow whether we getting paid or not together with famous so we're in it. it cause, we ain't belong anywhere else. Yeah we're complete misfits, outcasts, yeah, you know freaks right. you're a jobs. Now you know job. It was, it was right for no plan b, man, that's right near and ass. I you that's the only way we were man. Could anybody who had an option in our but don't get took it the arrival and, if me and bruce Last guy standing man yeah, so you know anyway we hanging around. So, yes, we hang around and then, and so he got a It's our third album born to run

is that you get like seven gigs book them as it, and the seventh gig is a bottom line. Was like a showcase cycle? like the roxy was he put out more and iran you're not on born right now, not now no end, and so he had his coming out. And he has seven gigs booked an area that was going to be, like you know, curtains man, you know if something didn't magical of something magical didn't happen So he says this now to get our down for a minute. You know and as front so come complaining last seven shows a minor. At first I was anxious to get out of town. I was tired of fighting with the club owners all the time we had to threaten to go across the street to go from five sets a night to three yet which we had done right right, which again made history in new jersey, because you know you, I put at five sets a night yeah. We got that with three, which I, though, was a major victory.

kill a war every week in s and then always trying to fuck you one way reality in europe. So I said you know what let me get out of town to find right. So I left for seven shows and I stayed seven years soon, yeah good time. Yeah yeah it was it was it was. It was fun that same right after that, so seven show The bottom line thing was so successful. We were gonna, came to l a for the first time and played the roxy Oh yeah! That was really exciting, you look, you look down from the from from the stage. You know his jacket Seven were eighty in our new no ever alone. arr and I guess now they will wow. You know we had never seen any celebrities before you like. I guess you know, celebrities new jersey, you know and what they were

mob celebrities. So that was really really a very exciting any went over to england with him right yeah yeah- that was a great we did summer shows Turning the noise like, if you feel to me that, like americans were lacking in as quickly as it may, it happened over there well yeah, but would there was no reason for us to really go? Other frank. Barcelona are genius agent kept insisting on us going over there and thank god we did because now we are very, very very successful over there, but it was not a typical thing: american it. No. No, it wasn't so much to the audience, but the villas in bother to go over there. You know and do we have to know yeah yeah? like that. Meanwhile yoga

I hope it's like save everybody's lives, who who those who did go to very heavily then. But what was remarkable about that first trip to england is for no reason at all. Somebody filmed it and recorded coordinate and I mean we were. We were nothing. We were absolutely there wasn't even any hype or anything it was it was. It was around that same seven. It was around that first tour yeah, like our third album after born to run tour, yeah, yeah and, and so bruce later right when you think about a re release, twenty whatever twenty thirty years later, fairly fairly. Recently Emily looking in the archives, and he saw a video or maybe maybe somebody took a little a couple of minutes of song song. Yeah yeah looks now, is the entire shown and recorded like twenty four try, gummy for no

reason whatsoever, you need know what's happening now, we didn't know was happening. We know why was happening. Why would anybody have done it? We were nothing, we meant nothing, okay, yeah and it was just a wonderful little. you know nothing because we're were writing my yeah between me and the club band yeah and an arena band right, yeah, and so he captured at wonderful transitional moment. It's also very freaky. The lighting is very freaky, because MARC brickman are like. I had the first time we ever played a theater air or the theaters. The spotlights are in the balcony area, so we're doing it with lunar south our spot yeah yeah and right in your eye, solar for the first time. So I'm like that and bruises like yeah. It's bugging me meter though we may, It shut off of his So if you look at that that, what is in the born run. Re release is very freaky.

it's very. It's all backlit yeah for bruce, looked up to the mic to sing and you don't see his face now. I see like an outline of those guys. You know, which is Gotta go you'll, never see that again, rising up everybody else would have. It would have had a spotlight, because you wanted to see the audience area for this right of bolivia and still is yeah. I still make him turn it down. I get you like you, don't wanna feel like you're, just floating in space. I hate that feeling. That's. Why that's why I can't use those year the year, the minors, the same reason you need to be in a rural area years, holding up alright yeah- and I bet so darkness- is the first one. You did pretty much get him yeah and- and cause like I, I tell you man like going over like some of your stuff in inches. We are also listening to a lot of this stuff cause. I I talked to him. He he, it seems like you guys

you will be there on very much the same page or you influenced each other. I think both yeah, both yes, he area without a doubt we strengthening each other other, because you know there's nobody else. You know I mean we. It was religion to us, so we were. We were deep in it. Yeah and also listening to very much things back then in august. We were hanging out so he's watching you in southside I mean he knows that the that the jersey, sound, that's evolving, he's part of it. Yeah he's got clearance comes in at some point: yeah right, yeah. Well, that was all our respective tradition. we're our dna. I don't know why you know, but it was in our dna know the next you're born a year or two later. Maybe it wouldn't about you know, but but we were still what happened that great sixties thing. You know we were so very much addicted to that. What I call a renaissance period. You know that renaissance period were was so if a wage or to us- and we wanted to

continued, somehow structures a little different like it's like its rock n roll, but that sole structure, though the minor cords and is sort of like their story telling it's not. You know it was a mainstream at that point right and ever was than ever really. We by the time we are hybrid began. It was my hybrid or bruce's hybrid. Neither one was fashionable. Neither one was trendy. It was completely against what was going on It's interesting, though, because, like you know, be like those first two bruce records, like you know, asbury park, he all is almost a van morrison record in in some ways right and in any streetch outflow, started to evolve and then born to run that tomb boom. The spectre thing, then, by the time you guys do the arduous yeah. Then it's like that's it darkness it happens in a lot of ways, yeah well, I would say born to run was the beginning of a break that was. matic is song and everything took a focus. That was more

this and another evolution. That was really a noticeable evolution of that point. You know from from a local color you know. The song writer rise were more formalised. Ok, this is rock and roll. This is redundant him yet yeah, yeah yeah. I thought you were on born run. You do not know. how about it all no yeah a little bit of the horns on tenth avenue. You know I information. Wars will be the idea, that's about it, rules out here, you're round, yeah yeah, I was there. You know, I run but by then the dukes has started. You know where your your jihad and right, yeah so and and darkness. the one thing like talking to him like I didn't realize, till after the fact right, rikers you I mean you guys, you produced a couple records with like right, river and remember anyway, is that

yeah and I dunno why I didn't put it together, because I watch that I I the the jimmy I find the dark with that, but that was born to run that was making that right. Jimmy was the engineer on board, but but no matter what he did in in and I was mad. I didn't recognize it. He he's in he's very hard on himself, mrs it's a while back, then it was a it was. You know it was a very tough period, born to run into it's right through darkness was you know a bruise struggling to find himself india where we want to go in and you fighting the realities of the business and fighting with his manager. The time and lay the law suit and right right right, chatting again can regain, can is publishing which he had lost temporarily. I certainly think things are spinning out of control is on the cover of time and newsweek, which he didn't really want to be right. Yeah he'd wanted, he didn't want to be considered hype.

We will want to be real thing right so it's kind, hurricane of of distractions and- and you know so- the records took took a lot of time, it took a lot of a lot of blood you but also, I imagine, the way you're describing it. Probably a nice escape like to be in the studio they have that one thing out: no! No! No that didn't happen until I producer. The river? Was the opera because I don't basically you know we we go through this darkness thing, in a number I'm helping with the arrangements at that point, but I'm not a producer, yet you know and every time we start to do the river, and I said to him I said: listen men like I can't go through this again. Okay, I'm sorry, I can't watch you go to this. Is the

and then that to me was the all night kind of nitpicking in an hour forget it months and months and months of this torture torture. Yet I said to myself man, I I don't want to see you go through this again. You know swell almost going to split. You know. He says: no, no, no! No! No you're going to you're going to you're going to make this regular may you're going to produce record with me as if a real he says absolutely so I get us into the power station and bob clear mountain. Checked out right yeah, you know here, and you know it was kind of a camouflage. but basically I had let you know I had to try and get where I felt we needed to go and suddenly rose. We would Bruce were in a right play. Suddenly, the only suddenly we found a right room and the rice out and now it's a pleasure to go in a record? Okay? Finally, you know he was a you yeah yeah, oh yeah,

but but he you know he could hear it. Everybody could hear you know. Atlanta was right there. You know here he wasn't. You know nobody was objecting which it was rightly this finding the right room but I'd them a whole lot of research by then trying to figure out why the drum the drums sound great on every 50s and sixties It sounds terrible in the seventies, you know yeah. You know why. What what's going on yeah, I figured it out. He was the way they were biked. You know in the old Michael overhead, and then suddenly seventies began close, making me back in the base. Yet the engineers took over temporarily, I sat had like nine mike's gear worry way. Wasn't that that as much as the close making it so they could have extreme separate Right right now, yeah. Well, you know extreme separation, control, not exactly rock and roll good good for agriculture. Really, yes, you are have the overheads

I still want to have some some separate making x to the control to some extent, but but So it was it was that, combined with the tuning, cuz? I realized all the wait guys all the early drummers were which were trained by jazz drummers and he how to read, plus they play with the wrist up, right, right, yeah and playing later yeah, and what I discovered was delighted. you hit us a well tuned snare drum the lady! You hit the bigger south, no shit, I did you hit it. Looked like you hitting us like a cave man here, right bottom style. It it blows the snares. The stairs do not resin how I again it would run like it's a third yeah, basically so I discovered all this stuff now, I'm anxious to put it to work. You know which we did and and and and when you know it came without with the river yeah

vast, like him elaborate musical landscape. That was a yak as you. It was all building up inside him a he actually has started. Writing like her a demon on darkness for me born to run. I think he wrote nine, eight and a half songs and, like you know, eight of them are on a record remake. I mean I'm not kidding. It wasn't like a ninth song. That was a darkness. He writes sixty sucks, no shit We need ten and then you could tell from these outtakes to you know a lot of really good stuff. So he starts during targets and river I recall number is probably one hundred or one hundred and twenty songs did you record yeah well shit at this point. A lot of them are out of my routes yet attracts the darkness. Re release, yeah

the river rereleased his whole, they all company with a with an outtake, album yeah, you know yeah, that's great stuff, not not good, not like. Oh it was. It wasn't good enough to be on a record yeah. This stuff should have been. I wonder why didn't do that? Well, he was you know again being very, very hard on himself in terms of the identity, and you know and that's why Is it, though time he he realizes now, because he thought some of the stuff was too obviously influenced by this or that you know wasn't enough him or me, but It was. He was quite wrong about that because if you listen to it now, it's obvious if this all sounds like him, yeah yeah, the yes, there's some influence in there. So what yeah? You know everyone's input. So, but you know you're here to do what he had to do. You know, and you know and born in the usa. He did too.

I will say I did. That was a we. We got to the point with that point where we said like: let's eat, let's take it to the next level and not rehearse at all ha un estudio. He taught us a song once we will. We have a couple more recent things may be here and there and then we will cut it and then, if you want to sing it again, we played it again so on on the eight or nine things I did, I'm going to going to say yeah the Nothing, no overdubs zero. You just repeat the whole take as a band. that is crazy yeah. I was the no no reason this completely is a silly thing to do, but we decide to do it, but they made a difference. I had to make a difference. Well I dunno I mean looking back on it now. It's is kind of a silly thing to do really, but but we thought we wanted to maybe prove to ourselves that we could. You know.

One of the you know I mean the river was a turning point where we finally captured what the band sounded like on a record remains here. Cause you know, darkness to me was a tragedy, though some of his best songs. You know some of his classic songs. I hated the way that thing sounded. He did Why did I happen because we know rock n roll is, is not one credit. We think it's one craft. It's five craxi ray. You learned your instrument you learn to analyze records and see what's going on on those records which is the beginning of learning, how to arrange records you performed or how to perform, take and that's very important step the people skipping these days. Because you need to learn how to interact with an audience. Her interact with your bad. She had em saw the fact, people and, most importantly, because you analyze the records and you're and you're performing cover songs.

you now have established standards. We have very high standards, which comes in handy for the fourth craft, which is writing right. I go to write a song. Well now you got it something: that's in the ballpark of what you've been playing live right, yeah, which is your favorite song again, you have something called standards right. Yes, if you skip that stage, you don't have standards or what's going on now and in the fifth craft, is recording yeah right. Well, you know, gus, wherever for what was at risk for five hours to get it to get that figure Did you ever think about later going back and re recording the darkness stuff? I I I begged him to let me least remakes remix it can I make you, nuts people, instead, his thing right now never bothered him in fairness. It never bothered him. I never knew him never about anybody, but me I just like man. I did you know,

I think he'll be so much better. So much better. but I do remix. So why how did cause? I listen to the sort of her the demo of born in the in the usa on tracks that this sort of like haunting song, born in the usa. How did it shift from that? to the anthem. Why does your message around that point with some some acoustic thing, some larger gimme? That was, that was weird. You don't nebraska came out of that too right now, if so, you know river be acoustic, yeah, that's just like acoustic stuff. Here he was fooling around with because he always had that in him. that part of him. That was that's. That's that yeah yeah yeah. You know ass. The one thing you know well who were most different. Probably have you know, I've got that in hand out, but I appreciate it allows the first one I recognize that nebraska should be released. You know it was to me it's it

it will. He did as demo, and I felt like this aim of them omen. Aside born There was originally on those demos, yeah, maybe yeah. You know desire that sound like that. It's really haunting that one! a period also so you know, but whatever and then yeah you toward with him. For a while, then you want your way split man I decided I didn't produced in a most have borne usa and in a split and an I made to solar albums. While there was the word I more, I say yeah, you know you I got obsessed with politics and got into you know. Just trying to you know add some light on things I felt needed, the producers are either stuck here for as very or for southside yeah. I did three southside records. Kerry respond well, yeah bruce started that and then brought me into that two hours ago bars and then yeah. I will start producing other people after that, but but mostly friends again ever there as a living as as a as a job exactly you know so well

the car who got the call for the rising. You know. I have that. Come Adam Well, we were where the reunion by then re- I guess loud, and yet it like ninety nine here, society, Melissa was supposed put be in bed together and we what about it in until two years. You know stay friendly all those years- and I just said you know- maybe it's time because you you look at these all the command every year. You know greatest bands of all time watching like little number one that you're like two three five ten, these weapons by this, with the aids or ten year. You know you like. Basically, though, of the challenge You know it. Maybe I to come back and remind people that the best friend and saying it was worth. It was certainly one of them and we're no longer in the top ten okay. So I think it's time

we go back room. My people like what it's really all you guys. You already have banned when the horrible thing happened and And then you guys, you know cause. I remember that time after nine eleven, where you know like there was this weird kind of like well, when you know bruce going to china You know and then that record my like what was the process of making that thing yeah well, that I was Brendan brendan, o brien, he brought produce a new producer right. Who did two or three, I think was I of a different method, it was a whole different methodology, bruce started to do demos in his house and and and and and and have the band kind of you know. Pop and yeah you know like replace his stuff, and you know what I mean the whole different. It wasn't as looking at the id yeah yeah as opposed to the alway, which was working the songs,

with the band? You know right right. You know we were always very very. We made a lot of contributions in the old days. You know yeah to arrangements and stuff like that. This was It was a transitional thing to get back from being a hello, guy back into being a band guy which interesting the meg make what I mean, and you know he has both things in him, but but it took a minute to to get it's that again, you know, but you guys still tight yeah yeah, very, very. He came out to support my first couple. solo show get up there and play, and I just meteorite- supported him on his opening in broadway, and I was that great. What was he some story alienates ice has a work is different. you'd think I mean there's a little bit of a little bit of a surprise, because it is quite a the different medium you know, and and and he has a game,

need to find himself in that medium, and I mean I just talked to him last year you know and he's bent was very thoughtful and obviously the bookie near kind of reveal. What about himself? I was in iowa. It was, you know, he's an intense guy, so yeah So what is the elements of the show? You can't get tickets anymore so tell us. Well I I the feeling I mean he hasn't said anything to me about it, but I think after Broadway I I can't imagine him not taking it on the road a little bit yeah so we'll come there, lay when it but bad enough. I don't know that. Ok, that's that It's not me giving any any inside information. We didn't talk about it, but I add if I was him yeah, you know what I mean get what he's doing you gotta go to london, you gotta go, you know. Maybe stockholm or you know it's as simple as there's a there's a store, so he yeah he comes amid his book related to really you know a buddy or

because I am in a rather worried about a cover to a preview as well as you'll bring em out when did the audience would respect the protocols of this media Okay, you know what I mean I have observed. I honestly thought I was when I was in a little bit of a panic like. Are they gonna start calling out san diego is going to be like oh no yeah and they were totally cool There are a lot of them are grown ups. Now, yeah, but that doesn't mean you don't call out. Songs start dino, clapping along and things like is not appropriate. you know either way, but he comes out and starts to talks first before he plays anything. So it sets up this yeah. Okay, you know it's a serious night and yeah and even though he's got some funny things in in in in his raps yeah, but but you know, establishes a sort of seriousness to the media, yeah that everybody just adapted to a medium.

if wonderful eleven of the presidency at a year and everything the small beer, if the people a year. So you know head a man and- and that is a really an interesting place to be because again, the book revealed Why did you did you think he got it right in the book yeah I really really really well written. That was. I was even surprised how how you know cause it didn't have to be that good. You know what I mean be good. You know, as I was very nice ability to jog your memory a little bit. The guy pull things out where you're like oh shit, yeah yeah, some of that or the early stuff was fun to read about a year. Here you kind of go back to that feeling of it's a it's a it's an odd liberation when you you know when you've got nothing going, you know me haha yeah, yeah, yeah, nothing yet

well. You don't know is that's right. You can't really truly enjoy it because you don't know what's ahead the era, but they're, you know they're kind of living in the moment and there's a certain liberation little liberating feeling for that too. So what about the at? You know. We talked a bit about this walker, but the acting thing you enjoyed. That is that something you're going to do more. Yes, I loved it and I'm going to do more of it. I got oh yeah yeah, I'm gonna crumble to try and create my own show. Now I need to create once know I took. I took what I learned: from sopranos. It took it into Lillehammer right and I and I was but I started. You know that one craft became like five started. I co wrote it. I cope with Iraq. I directed the final episode and did the score and an endless loop for music supervision year. So I won't I wanted. I wanted to tell you that what I wanna work its way and other mobster will say. Maybe people like me as a mouth mess with the people,

and what was worse. If you look at me, very few people on earth. Ok wants an audience, defines you that's. It became pretty well you're lucky if an audience defines you because of me. They found you. Right here so and this very rare I want to go from one medium to another here cause you know they define you as that. You know, as and I'm very, very lucky you could they could really accept them as it was such an interesting? I just re watches soprano like a year ago. The whole thing again, watch all the way to do that. It's pretty great,

because, like you forget that there are some episodes that are sort of like well. That was interesting. One like like. Not a lot happened. Now you see this is a. This is a mistake that they're making a tv right now that everybody thinks it's all about plot plot, driven air. You know yeah, we can't remember three plots and the empires of practice, that's all about character, his character and that's what I'm trying to you know. That's what my scripts are. You know and that's what I'm trying to tell the tv people like: listen man, I'm sorry but name me like five, great tv shows out of the hundred that are on right now, and then you can't name them. You know when the thing about your character in the sopranos was weird because, like initially you know you like his guy clown. Is this a comedic guy? He right, cuz. You kind of think that is like the beginning. Like cuz, you were so quirky, but then I won't send you people like now fuck they were. They were very well written character of their corky year. Eccentric. Then I would you necessarily would think is it is. It is clear:

J. Silk of you is funny where we We had that in the character. Yes, but. Suddenly really. I was, the others. Very cool guy was in trying to keep a tony soprano alive. Basically, the only character on the show it did not want to be the boss right, we're comfortable in oh yeah, I remember when he had to be the voice for men. It was not good, neither not comfortable and the, and so so we we use a little bit of humor when he when he he would when he would vent his frustration like in a card game or at his door is a soccer game. You know me as though that was the EU maria. It was like. Let him let him go nuts when it doesn't really. better life and death matters, he totally ratio data. Yeah. Are you in real life, do feel like they've been that way for for bruce or when you, I basically use my relationship with bruce for sopranos. That's what

grounding in flow into less. What was his ship of being the guy behind a guy in here, and you know, you know, there as an under boss as a as a as a costly area. Here as an advisor and as a friend yeah right. That was it. I mean when I wrote the biography of my character, I'm like him and Jimmy you know him in tony soprano. Yeah grew up together. Sure you know you can have that relationship all along right. you know which helped me, because I was the first time as an actor, so I was able to rely on that. What that dynamic was, I knew so I had to be the only one bringing the bad news premiere, because I was the only one not afraid of him right right right. You know the only one yeah right yeah cause. We were lifelong friends, yeah. I'd say when you're, the only one, not afraid of them. You gotta one's caffeine, the bread bad though, because everybody is too afraid to do it yeah. You know I they going to get the their yeah yeah. You know where I could say: listen, you know tony. so we have got a phoney azalea and if we had some things like

yeah sure you had that kind of situations with bruce I mean not as dire, but you know, but yes, yeah know those. Those moments have happened. You know, and you take you take the you take the heat man. It becomes a a confrontation We of of you know, was the bear, no right rail and outline the messenger right now. They know you well enough to wait it out. You know you know where you're going to take it, but then you'd be like yeah right. That's right, yeah, that's What is really I know you survive. It is if I went down to fini that we see what a great job he did so sad that we actually major lost now, my god major, while a few lately right, patties guy geez that hit me very hard. You know I mean we, we've been open, every show with a tom, petty song ever since you know cause it's just a very very you know special very similar. You know.

so yeah we we, we grew up the same way now same influences and but also the space that he above your band or really or the street band and and petty's van holden, the american yale culture yeah and the american songbook. I've always found to be similar yeah. It is it's a it's a true classic rock of the seventy's there, that was coming straight from the sixties, man. You know with all the respect, so that way, but I have an opening where even the losers, great writer huh, and I'll tell you man, I love this new record. I really do agree. It does exactly what you said thanks for describing it that way that ved at that moment, where you walk into the bar or the club, and you hear the band exactly I felt like I said people hilo sanctuary right now from the politics and really I would bring the politics with me on tour. Okay here it comes here comes a confrontation with politics

everybody needs to hear ye needs to respond to think about and do something about right and on, and exactly the opposite, bringing I'm bringing like a bit of sanctuary forehead, where I well rock and roll well. It is a very musical show, you very very fifteen pieces recovering ten. Eleven different subjects was amusing right. I it's really. The history rock and roll of great do up blanks, yo, rock and soul, to reggae and sulphur hard rock folk, fuck that show yeah yeah. So it's a real threat for a threat transportation. You know we're transporting people to a musical place. That, I think, is very, I think, nourishing you know. I think it's spiritually nourishing right now, which I think we need more. then just more political, well yeah, I mean you know we're getting enough twenty four seven.

yeah the human spirit thing going, really think that that's the purpose now you know I'm sticking around, I mean I'm, I'm gonna. Do I'm gonna keep making records now and keep torn and find a way to tour, now, I'm your man who will go in the summer, with these pre ban or whatever yeah, and hopefully do a new tv show in the winter so wow the guy it was great talking to you, look well, I'm glad you're healthy and the records beautiful, and it was great, great meeting. You thanks man, you too that was my conversation with Mr Steven Van Zandt. I wanted to mention, though, that he called me after the interview. And said that he didn't finish a thought about fixing the republican party. He set it up, but he didn't finish it, and this is what he said to me. The way you do it voting them out two thousand and eighteen on a state, local and federal level? so he wanted me to add that

meanwhile, we that hang it died. I mentioned the book go pick up their book waiting for the punch words to live by the deputy pod cast for last minute, gift idea: that's it, that's it, and maybe I think I'm going to do some blues noodling. If you don't mind, that's what I feel like doing today, very clean, very, at a cast, her blues noodles little little echo middle world by brutal, but often the built in shit on me. Vibe reverb,

papa in the boomer lives.