Marc talks with Paul McCartney about, well, a lot: The Beatles and Stones rivalry that wasn’t, his current relationship with Ringo, the influence of Little Richard, The Who, The Beach Boys, how he needs to have an out-of-body experience to really examine the Beatles legacy, the reception of his solo work after the Beatles, recording Band on the Run in Nigeria, what messages are in his songs, which songs still make him emotional when he performs them, and what he brought to the table for his latest album, Egypt Station. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace, The Daily Show with Trevor Noah: Ears Edition, and Casper.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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through friday mornings on apple podcast or whatever you get your ears on a podcast, okay, dig it Let's do the big show all right. Let's do this! How are you what the fuck is, what the fuck buddies, what the fuck stirs what's happening on marc maron. This is my podcast wtf, come to a big day. It is big day. There is no way to deny that I do want to set it up a little bit. I want to set up my story and I want to set up the story of the event, but I tell you right out of the gate here, because I don't want to waste, time today is. paul mccartney day here, paul mccartney, a beetle one of two beatles left. I talked to him now it's going to be different than the regular format, because this was a live event, and that was The deal I was asked by
by paul and his people too. Moderate a live event with paul me and paul on stage is about six hundred or so maybe more, I'm not sure, but it was for capital wreck It was the fifth annual cap congress, where capitol records, basically takes over the are quite movie. Com works over there over a couple of theaters anyways and runs events all day mccartney. The beetle was the surprise guest and I was the guy you got to do the talking to him. I was well to interview paul, but I just want set you up a little bit, so you know what you're getting into it is a live event. There was a large audience there paul and I we're both aware of that and be entertainers that we are. You know there was an element of involving the audience in in of how we paste our conversation, which happens in alive vent. I have not done
live wtf in a long time, and I've only done a few one on one live events that were later publishes, podcast in one of the best ones really won the best podcasts, I've ever done in a lot of ways and a monumental moment for me was doing this type of thing terry gross several you to go it at bam in brooklyn for a radio event, and that turned be a great time, as did paul now, obviously We all love the beatles, and if you say that you don't love the beatles, then there's clearly you know you really haven't. Properly or you're. Taking a stand for something, there's something fundamentally a little flawed. If you can dismiss the beatles at all at once a year you might say like. Luckily, I didn't like that one album, but even that's weird honestly and I'm not trying to to biju mental. I'm just saying that
beatles songs, are like they're, almost like christmas songs. In a way where you know you know, I'm a jew, but I know most of the christmas songs released the first verse there, just in your head, they're they're, only biological beatle, songs in the brain. It's almost biological they're, just they've they're, all in there now, some of us put into getting them all in there, others they just in there. You don't even know how they got in there, and so it's I there's, there's an argument to be made to maybe we're we're actually born with the raw elements of beatles songs in our heads. They just they're ready the gel. You know there in there when you're born, they just don't have the form, and then you know, as soon as you hear, maybe two notes of any beatles song mad quickly. The song just forms self? In your brain at a very early age? Sometimes a prenatal, I think, is what happens within the first year, your brain just loads up with most of the beatles songs. Obviously, as an in and you can't be responsible for say, revolution, nine or some of the more esoteric stuff. a couple of the bits on magical, miss
free tour, but most of the other stuff is in there. You sing along with revolution. Nine, nine, nine number, nine number, nine or wraps but even the melody of flying on magical mystery tour up up up a not a lot of words but How can you forget that that's probably the most prenatal beatles song is the instrumental fly believe magical mystery tour, I reacted not in, like I did with president obama when I was offered the opportunity to talk to him and paul. I was sort of I got a man really. You know, like a what I mean one of my good. How might what I can to get you know I mean what am I gonna really how my gonna do that eight happened again with paul happened with president obama, be he was president and paul is a beetle. Ultimately, I I would think a beetle probably bigger and in some ways a a in the beatles are the you know, the president, all the time and they're they're they're magnanimous and all loving, and they you know they they they don't cover.
per se, but they, Governed us through many feel. was emotions in periods in our lives, and they continue to do so for generations and generations not gonna go away, but I don't need to plug the beatles the beatles really are the still, for whatever reason are the greatest. really are so why? Why That would be adverse. to this amazing opportunity to talk to paul yeah? Why was were sponsored today by casper, a sweet brand that continues to revolutionize its line of products to create an exceptionally comfortable sweep experience one night at a time with three mattress models: the original casper, the wave and the essential casper mattresses are perfectly designed to soothe and cradle your natural geometry. Also, the breathe, able design, helps you sweet cool and regulates your body temperature throughout the night. It's delivered
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conditions apply, because don't they always don't they always so it's let's talk about this event brendan. Tell me what was up with that with the paul thing was going to happen. He beat we've been sort of dancing around for awhile, but this live event seem like the perfect opportunity and I freaked out I'm okay I'll? Do it and I just proceeded to freak out and make myself sick 'cause? I was Why what am I gonna? What am he talked about? This is a beetle. That's you know, he's talked about everything. Beatles he's talked about everything paul, you know, he's talked about every there's! No, I'm not going to find a new way in I'm not going to I'm not going to get like. What do you hear in the garage? I'm not like I mean we can all these excuses to freak myself out. I listen to all the beatles with stuff that I will I listen to all the wing stuff that I listen to waiter, ny. I listen to the new album egypt station. I do that to myself. Sometimes, when I have musical guests that are, you know, have a a big disk. Who are prolific, but this is this. Is my
party man and you know who great to listen to some of that solar stuff, some of it for the first time it was mind blowing, but I was still freaking out. Finally, you know brandon sorted talk me down he's like you know. What what difference? Does it make man? What difference does it make you're talking to a beetle You know, I mean this is paul. Mccartney I mean just go: enjoy the conversation with paul mccartney's and uh, yeah man yeah, that's what I'm do, who cares what gets uncovered or who cares what's been covered or anything else, I'm going to go hang out with paul mccartney, sir paul mccartney. still a little weird I've still live Yeah, I understand why. Why wasn't more excited? I didn't understand initially why get out and then, like I'll, tell you guys this. You know. I don't know that I told paul in so many words, but but you know when you grow up with the beatles when you were the beatles nut.
I'm really leaned into them a lot when you're a kid and put all that in your head and had a relationship with the beatles. You have your beetle. Yes, people I'm fifty four years old, so you know I had my beetle and I did And this was really what was at the core of my anxiety and also My weird reaction was my beetle was was john. and I'm surprised it's stuck so long. There was part of me is sort of like I'm gonna interview paul, but you know paul's paul. I mean john, was my beetle John man, the the the tormented one, the and at the awards, hard on his sleeve the intense one I mean john, was my beetle. I mean I was dead. This stated when john was killed. I was I'd gone before he was killed at gone at some point. When I was younger to just look at the order building. I just wanted to run into john in new york city. I just john.
is my guy was sort of added, and once I resolved that and was like dude dude, it's paul mccartney, it's it went into mccartney is anyhow yeah. They're still partly john was my guy, so I will shut up and go you go, I mean come on, but you have these relationships. You know but it was about, but once I saw paul people would come people very quickly for me special, doing this for so long. You know having them over to my house sitting around with them. Before and after a talk taking pictures having convo, nations after the this was not going to happen with paul. This is paul mccartney, sir paul I'm at the event and uh we're in a some holding area and those other events going on and we're waiting for paul he's running late and I've got my notes in you know I kind of put some stuff together, because I got about an hour with them and in this event, it's about an hour and to live in yeah. You want at
we want to be prepared, you don't want to wing it in a live situation. Really you to have a place to go. And I'm just hanging out said is there there are the painter and you know, paula of assistance and then comes, he shows up. He looks great spry on top of it. Quick You know moving around like well, groomed paul mccartney. And he's over there, and you know I put some thought into how I wanted to introduce myself and there's a lot of people around him and he's like. Is there a place? We can have some water forget, you know a mirror or someone I might. Can we get him a mirror? He had met him, yet he didn't aside. Just like already sort of like: can we we get paul needs water, whatever it like. There was a lot people around me. Just I think in that moment assumed I was somebody working at the event. I said I am mark. marinum, I'm going to be interviewing psycho, you know you're the guy
and uh I don't claim to do a pool. I don't do any role impressions, but I'm like yeah, yeah, yeah and then, like my big plan, was at this price depaul. The first thing I said to him is like yeah, I'm real excited about this, but I was told that the beatles off limits is that true and he went You know it was like one of those last right. Alright, smart ass, but I gotta laugh, however, paul right there first line in and that good. It was a nice ice breaker. We talked a little bit you know not about anything and we just We went right to the side door and I said it's gonna be great. He told me what where he wanted to sit. You want to sit on, stage right, so I sat on stage left and you know I went out there and I just introduced him place, went crazy, sat down and we had the talk me and paul mccartney had the talk and you're going to hear it.
Momentarily. I do want to mention again that support for today's show comes from square space and square spaces, sponsored a lot of our biggest episodes. They were sponsors on the episode with president obama, the one with lorne michaels, the one with keith richards, and it makes sense that square space would be with us on our biggest episodes, because square space will be with you for your biggest ideas, whether you're looking start a new business showcase. Your art sell some stuff that you make square space is the way to turn your dream into a reality with beautiful, ten it's created by world class designers and ability to customize just about anything with a few clicks, you can easily make a beautiful website yourself all by yourself square spaces, e commerce tools that let you sell anything online analytics help. You grow your site in real time. If you want an example of a square space site, go to w apart dot com which is powered by square space. It great on any device, and yours will too, because squarespace sites are all optimized for mobile space,
empowers millions of people to turn great ideas into something real from designers, to lawyers, artists, to gamers, restaurants, gyms and yes, yes, folks, yes, podcasters head to squarespace dot com, slash w t f for a free trial and when you're ready to launch used the offer code, w t f to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain that squarespace dot com. Slash w t f offer code, w t f. So now I take you to the Fifth, annual capital congress for capitol records event to a life versation I had with for paul mccartney of wings fame and the eagles man, the beatles and also got this new album egypt station comes out tomorrow september, seventh, gay wherever you get music, okay, that paul mccartney and
very now, nice to see you, I see you more call mccartney. Yes, sir. Thank you now being a night whoa What does that enable you to do? I can you go to the british museum and take out armor? No, but I and drive a herd of sheep through the city of london. That really That's a real floyd. What is it give you? The freedom is slightly different. They give you the freedom of the city and
my daughter, stella said what is it? did you get anything I said? I don't know like. I think I don't know so she looked it up here and she said: it is. I am entitled to drive a flock of sheep through the city of london. I'm surprised capital. Didn't. Think of that for a publicity thing this time, and another question I have because you know I've talked to. I talked to keith richards, not too long ago. and uh. I read in the book that you guys hung out a bit and I was thinking that maybe We need a dark night. Is there any way? we can sort of rally to get keith richards a knighthood yeah. I think you reserves, yeah, you still hang out with that guy so that was the last time that he was talking about rural holiday in the turks and caicos yeah, and I did over there. He was along the beach used to the journey after lunch yeah,
and where we had some fun times with, was it tents at first no you know I I've known him forever right. You know because we we started off at the same time and we wrote to for single for them and stuff. You know so so we and each of their long time, but I haven't seen him for quite a well, but we are careers. Had happened, so. We certainly got together and it was funny money was hilarious, yeah we because the conversation, of course, you know, got to sort of crazy stuff. Yeah like why, like wow we were designing portable dog kennels So it's pretty good idea. We thought you know a lot of lot of weed involved. in the candles in the the creating of the creative process. It was required
why we got round to kind of well. If you had one, you could uhm doesn't make him for, like dalmatians would be polka, dot, sure sure What I do well. This is an exciting transition for keith. I think he Think about this. I had no idea that that would be a business that idea that he would come up with and did you did you follow through or no? that's probably better off now. I was surprised that bad. in the day when you were all in london together that there were. There was a lot of open communication between the beatles and stones in terms of of of what you know, who's gonna drop. What, when yeah, exactly because people thought well, you know the kind of legend grew that it was like rivalry and everything he was about the opposite. Oh really, So, like you say, you know, if we had a record coming out august, the 28th- we will bring them
So to have you got anything anything coming answer. Yeah we've got something coming out. You know august. The 17th will put alcohol products really yeah. We know it is nice, and that was a really very friendly. Seen our member one evening. I used to wish to hang out at each of those places, and I was it I think nick was living with peace of the same time on a few other people. And I was I was there hanging out, neighbors studio, recording session. They came from the session and they had an acetate, which is how you used to kind of bring use. In those days it was ruby tuesday stuck in owners like like that? One, oh, really see how you know so it was. It. Was that friendly? That's that that's sort of like that changes everything about the way. I think about everything there is a
There is a comic years ago, was funny because he used to do this joker. You go like you know, some kids playing cowboys and indians. I used to play beatles and stones and I don't know which ones the beatles would be am assuming the indians, but it doesn't matter probably not really appropriate joke anymore, but This is a non, the less it was sort of lashing the ball we carefully. I did. I suppose you do do you feel that we was albers yeah, good, good. I I yeah, I think, that's true stealth cowboys yeah. Now when you see the stones, is there any part of you that thinks like that? I wish I was still kept. The band together. yeah, but unfortunately, two amount of debt I know that I know it's not really brought it up. Yeah. I didn't no. I know what you mean. I know. I know your question. yeah, but I mean just moment there. That's all I'm saying yeah like
We still touring everything. You've got guys you've been playing with for longer than you know, with the beatles really hess. What but is there at like when you see the stones now, do you do you, like? I guess, my question is: do you think like wow they're still doing those songs, but or do you think, are you before and like I don't know, I'm just you know. I love the stones. I've always lived in when I always gone to see the show. through the years- and I saw him Not long ago, the stones right, so we were at that old chella thing together, so you know so we went a little bit early to catch them and it's a great you know, I mean we, we go back a long way. Do you happen to them? There was never really rivalry, but to your question hey. You kidding me it would be fantastic if we had the bills together to tour yeah. That would be nice when out
It's gonna happen, but um you talk to ringo at all. No yeah course. I do yeah because you go through the only guys that have the memories you have now right, so yeah uh, that is sort of. What's great about it, you know, and it's we do. talk about all those memories. Ten of the other few weeks ago. Or in london, and he was there with his wife, barbara and we were talking and everyone was like very lively intel. in conversation, lots of jokes and tom. Thanks without his wife rita. That happened just hanging out to hang out with the best and tommy and maybe it's got something wrong with your fingers, So we're talking and it was very scintillating conversation. It was really nice and it was sitting across from ringo, and, I said to say, um wow me and this guy
Go back a long way I've man sees it is that it They expected me to have a punch line round by the way, but I just hit me yeah. I me, you know, I said well. I mean what I mean is you know I was just some kid growing up in liverpool, then I got in this group and we went on tour and I did over roomed with anyone yeah I mean we did go college, so this the first time. So I was like in a room with this guy who scarcely knew who is ringo, and so just the memories of all. Of that I mean just saying at this dinner thing he was an insomniac, he was an icon I could go asleep, but he was like up all night and I think yeah- and I was just remember in silly little things like that- that weren't particularly funny, but they were cool man- Trees for me, do you like how many memories like you've been uh a public person? You know a famous person for like law.
long. Fucking time is two men. Do you. Do you like? Do you have any memories but like before? Do you remember the transition where you're like holy shit? I've got to learn how to do this, be a famous person yeah. You do. I mean the good thing. was that the beatles didn't really get famous too. We were about twenty yeah, so I had twenty years in liverpool before that, where I could not get arrested. I couldn't get in a club, I couldn't get it girlfriend nothing so been right on time? Yeah I know I mean it was just it was real life. You know, and you just did things that people did. You know troubled by both. this stuff. So regular people stuff norm Imagine that you doing that stuff come on and the thing is you know. I actually still do that. I thought I heard take the subway sometimes yeah and does anyone
bobby gone, so boys don't look at each other. Master is I know because they're all screens these days anyway, so the really don't notice me yeah. Yeah just to test it out, so maybe maybe actually 'cause. I like it. Oh I've always had this thing: even with famous I've always liked to kind of dip into real life yeah, you know, so I will walk to a place where I'll drive myself to a place so I listen to a new record of it. And it's a beautiful record, sir paul mccartney record ann. I did a lot of research for this conversation. I listen to every beatles song, every wing song I've been up for weeks, but when you do a record 'cause, I've talked to like I've talked to like I've talked to keith. I've talked to people like roger waters, neil young and stuff, and when you do a record like egypt station now. Do you do you think this? This is the best work you're doing of your life right now or how do you
look at it. Don't want that's kind of difficult. You know 'cause. I was in the beatles yeah. I know I mean I'm happy to hear that on some level you you at some point had to learn how to come, with yourself, and accept that yeah yeah, exactly yeah, and you know when I do a live show. and I know that's what the millions once yeah, you know, but I like making. like writing, songs like so make a new album and yeah. I'm I'm try do the album I can make live concert is a say. You know I will eight in the audience. Sometimes I'll say we know what you like. You know, you know the songs you like 'cause. If we do an old beatle song, the place lights up, you phones yeah, just like the sexy stars so that we do a new one. It's a black hole.
so we know you know you know, but said what we're gonna to it anyway. We we do on you to remember. There are a lot of people in the orders want to hear your new stuff yeah. But you know got kind of quite a range. I got like a family audiences can little kids here and they know the words better than I do to the old songs. to the old soldier. So what is that? I don't mind this weird thing. Like my my producer, he's he's he's got a kid was like nine and you know it and the kid yet he no one to sell 'em on the beatles, but he loves the beatles immediately. Do you know? Was it in your mind that, like you know not only are grown up soda like this and teenagers, but five year olds are going to love the beatles? What is that magic? I mean? Can you explain it I ask myself back 'cause it's a very interesting question: why does it lasted 'cause? We saw we had ten years top wack. and then it would all just fade out, but it kept going kept coming of her and only thing I can think is when
Do the old songs here I find them very memorable, You know I can remember all the words like like that is the new songs are going to kind of think about. It will learn and stuff I think we hit so kind of a role clearly yeah, but you know it's just. We were so sort of interested in making records and so sort of privileged to make records that we always tried to make the next one bet in the last one, and I think in doing that, the structure of them so is very simple. The beatles things are hardly ever even the kind of complicated ones there sorta simple they're going to. I don't think, there's any extra fat on them right there, but there's some complicated chords in there. I can't play all of 'em yeah yeah I'll teach you later. Thank you
Well, I thursday, if you created a sort of the the type of pop that you guys are playing with the chords, are playing was sort of new for the time into it. The melodies of may, you may think they're simple, I'm telling you they're not paul. They are very complex, a mystical moon yeah good because, like what do you you listen to this stuff, because when I I listen to your first two solo albums recently like yesterday, I listened to the first. First beatles album that I had was the beatles second album. For some reason I was upset with. The song roll over beethoven was obsessed with chuck berry, but do you find that there are people that you respected and looked up to ' and revered when you were younger whose influence is really moved all the way through all of your music yeah. I think so. 'cause? I hear little richard, like still little richard's, always there right, yeah he's. Yes, yeah. it's the little screamy voice, yeah.
That's something I just loved love his record. You know, and I want to do that, so that gave maine a sort of feature thing within the beatles is jaun couldn't do that on. I remember him to me: how do you do that? You how'd you do that. I said I don't know I feel like it just comes out the top of my head, and he was one hour and then we had a session once where we were early early days and I'm going I'm about to do kansas city yeah, so I'm on the my come down there, the return the backing. Now I'm to do the vocal jones of the control room, I'm going. No I'm not making it and not getting it at all. John comes down to is remember, remembers. It comes out the top of your head, I see, okay at kansas city. That was it and that's the take you here.
So those guys like, like you, said you tried to keep doing better records. Were you also like it seems to me that what you were or bing as a group was It was sort of happening at the time and you just kind of ran it through the b tools, mill and made it your own and made it better, where you always aware of what was going on around you with the bands around you to the point where you were sort of like that. We can do that. There yeah, I think so you know I mean you keep up with. What's going on yeah, I tied to these days still will just because it's interesting yeah, you know it's not so much like a market researching who's, doing what She I like to hear a new record. You know so see here. The hits then you'd, be like. Okay, that's! What's going on and you know sometimes it does inspire you. you do something. Sometimes you get a little jealous. Oh, I remember some. the who I read once that towns,
and yeah. I was talking a newspaper. He said we just the dirtiest loud us philotheus record. Ever I went wool You've got to do that and we can get louder and dirtier and filthier. So I go in it's too early to say this to the guys were gonna. Tell your granddaughter And that was helter skelter, that was, that was the birth of that it was left filth is a big q. P towns in yemen on. I still don't know what track he was talking about. A boy was that song misunderstood by scary people, oh yeah, Do you remember that remember it, how could I forget it? I mean you suddenly singled out as being the soundtrack to a murderer and it was pretty scary yeah because, like
you guys. I mean I guess john got some flak early on with the jesus comment. How did you. What was the p our plan around reacting to manson I would he wasn't. You know we didn't have, and for years I wouldn't do that song yeah this 'cause, the connection right It was just to sort of like I felt like if I did, it would be a victory fam. You know right and I don't know anybody. I wrote it the science, my right, it's not his take it back and he's in jail anyway, he's dead. Now so yeah he died yeah. So you can do the whole album again fuck you Was there a point like you know, in the beatles where you just knew you one yeah, yeah, which album would that be where you're like we did it it's all over
I mean it didn't mean we're going to stop yeah you definitely there. there was the beachboy beetle incident yeah like which was like we were kind of paw and we will love what they were doing when was heading out. We fall but some thirsty already stealing stuff off them all a la la they did an we're going to pull right. But then we did. It was rubber soul. Brian was like whoa and he made that sounds and we will whoa, so we made sergeant pepper. So that's interesting, so you like that's what I said you listen to what other people did and then you kind of put it through the beatles mill and then there you go and there it is like sort of elevated to another place. But during that time Where did you have words with brian wilson? yeah. I've always talked to brian I've been a huge fan.
You know if anyone ever asked me. What's your favorite song with the nose, I only knows you know just so mystically magically put together a brilliant piece. You know So I've always he knows I'm a big fan of his yeah and uh. Our birthdays are very similar. I think he's tunes. Sixteen and I may 18th or something we worry close couple days. So yeah. I know he knows I love him, he advocated. So there was no. tension between. You know no, not really, no, not at all, I remember coming over here and it was this guy derek taylor who was our publicity guy and he was working in la after he'd left us and he had something to do with brian and remember over to derricks house one night and getting a bit stimulated sure and so
we're loving it brian comes over. He's got the shades on and he's you know he's who is it? Gonna do sort of nervously phase, which was where are we now with him? I think he's good he's touring, This is good. You know, I'm nervous, isn't nice words to dip. You know I mean but anyway. It was still a little bit. He hardly definition. Do you mind if I keep these shades on my brian, your life baby, you keep the shade. So I love those shades. Look great anyways. Can I play your record. I know now that the way he plays good vibrations, like you, never heard it before yeah and you're in the room with brian he puts it on, you know. This is the first time your dad chick yeah like I, was saying you ruby tuesday. You know. Sometimes you get those magic little moments. Where nobody's heard it yet yeah is not released, someone's playing it for you,
creator playing good for you yeah it's great great moment, but speaking of that, I talk to ah peter fonda recently, and he claims that she said she said There's a line in there that originated with him. Can you if that, I think so, yeah, oh good, that's more joy! the story. Why can talk to him? But so we, we can get very hard. You know. I know they were hanging out with peter and heat said I think he said. I know what it feels like to be in and john said night yeah, so it was pretty your line yeah. on its way into that song. So like right now, like beatle songs are,
played every day all over the world. There's a part of the human brain. I think that they have found that's just just beatle songs in most behind, so that you liked it do you feel like you when you're out in the world, like my girlfriend's dad, I think his spiritual system is based on deals and- and I think a lot of people are like that they just have this you've created this entire universe. Would you feel, what's your responsibility to those people out in the world, do you feel like when they come? not. You are you're generally nice. Do you feel it's odd that people are so myrsinites someone told me today that today was the day you walked across abbey road. Did you know that yeah see you don't have a google alert on beatles trivia? No I'm! The person who knows the least of those were luckily lot of people know that yeah. But now you know what it is. It's not so much a responsibility, but I do feel proud that the whole beatles output was very positive.
You know there was really nothing that was a big downer. There were kind of you know, sensitive songs, up, songs, down songs, but basically we are saying imagine or that's not beatles. We were saying I wish I could read that record. Very good right You know I mean we were saying strawberry fields forever, we're saying let it be or saying you know. That's all the positive stuff yeah make it better here and uh So as far as responsibility is concerned, I I feel good about that and No, and I'm also very proud, you know you'll remember we were just kids? Who were nothing and four? got together kind of magical combination. How do we together. I don't know we just were in different parts of livable. It was all variously the stories that suddenly us together but um, and we when did this thing and uh it was
It was kind of magical yeah. I know I, but I think that yeah I can look back on it now and think wow women. How did I meet you on Oh yeah. I remember that yeah, but it still is pretty amazing that we came together and the music and then continue to be interested in it and always wanted to make the next step now. well sounds like you guys. So it's interesting and you know, This thing is so looking back on it as I can now do as if I you know like out of body experience. I can look back on it. I think you know every single tune was different too. we made you know from me to you, then we to make strawberry fields, Who made strawberry fails? We wanted to make penny lane and so there's no formula. And I figured it was because we're young guys on we would have just got bored to make this.
Record again, I mean so much so that I remember in the studio we used to say to ringo. Did you use that snare drum? On the last song? You go yeah, I said how to change it. again, you know now 'cause they set up for a whole drum kit and that's pretty much the whole album yeah, maybe one or two changes, but we changed like every time. and if, if didn't have another snare drum, we go okay, That's it that's the rhythm that would be right. The fact that we were like wanting to experiment and are so interested in privilege just being allowed the studio time? You know it's like So every single track just was different yeah. I know it's insane, I listen to let it be twice the other day, and I can't
did that raytheon barn in in in in in in in in in in and amp. Remember, papa ahu did that who made up I was john's roof. Oh yeah. I take a pony, a pony like it like that whole album. I don't mind that he made that up now. I know I don't. I don't know why I'm getting personal about exactly glad you don't mind, it would be uncomfortable if you would be like that, I've had enough of this planet. Oh mentioned rolled, really embarrassing now that's a great riff. You know now that was a great song. That's probably one of the secrets and never boring? Do you think that, like whatever happened. You know at the end of that of that band is, do you feel ever looking? back on it that you guys had done everything you could that you'd pushed it out as far as you go creatively and it might have been the best thing we felt like that at the time and that's why it ended and we felt
full circle. We actually use that expression full circle by. But when you look at what we did after it, yeah it could have could have worked. No like johns track might have been imagined and I might have had live and let die. You know whatever you know they certainly do you think about that yeah. I think so, but I mean you can't do what ifs now You know I I could never do computer, what after bill, who still like wow, I said well yeah, get it, and I wish it were possible, but it isn't. You know to lima, the kids were growing up there. What, if we're going to, I usually say well what? If a television just fell on my head right now sure so I mean oregon, so I mean you can't write this? This just doesn't work, but also when you start your first two albums which were like, I need
they're amazing records because they're exactly what you talk about like they're they're, just like their pieces that don't necessarily come together, they're all different there. You did them all like in in critically. It wasn't like we eve. You know tremendously well, but it seems, like you were fairly prescient in you know, just sort of that loaf. I sort of thing which is very You are now like the whole model of that record has we like taken off with a certain element of alternative music. Do you know? That's one of the great things is that you go through these critically timing periods, which I did after the beatles. It was kind of kind of have to happen because you know it Quality is the beatles was like easy thing to say. You know and believe me I was aware of it is like holy. Am I going to follow there, but uh what's happening. Is you say? Is people now say? No, my and you know my favorite record ram right. I heard it the other day. Yeah, I'm going, it's not bad
it's. It's a good, it's kind of kind of very sort of modern yeah. We have those kind of people they young people like you. I think you sort like those early mccartney records have been discovered by the sort of the hipster crew yeah yeah in terms of like you're, taking chances and and with recording a little bit a little rougher, but also just you're, not being old into it to a a particular structure. Yeah, that's true- and I mean is great for me because you know when you that criticized so badly. It's like in fact you you try not to let it affect you and you tell everyone, it doesn't affect you, but somewhere you got. You know that didn't quite work, but did you get to a place where you're, like you know, like just you know enough with the beatles when I first when I was on tour with wings, every promoters and you're gonna do business office and no not gonna, do any
and then gradually once I felt we'd establish wings good about it. So then I the creeping back in things you know now. I don't care what were the first ones. What was like when you said I could do a beatles song, which one did you pick? they picked. It was yesterday. Everyone kind of wanted me to do yes and just go out there, but This thing, though, about yesterday was here. This happened to us all, of course, and johns in new york and now the The beatles have broken up and walks into like a bar. Copying and sees him and goes. Do do do do Do you take me to the school? It's not my song that was the one that had to be the one but know it is a cool thing that uh, you said the generational thing. Remember being with the guy wants, and I was going on a bit about sergeant pepper the same well, you know screen assume.
he like me to give him a bit of history, young one on one which beverly simple, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna have many said band. On the run. With my sergeant pepper, This is a generational thing, sure that was the record that he thought was I don't know if you can do that by the band on the run record like I had when I was very young and for some reason I just thought to picasso's last words was like the greatest song ever heard as a child drink to major yeah. I just and then one thousand nine hundred. fives on there like I'm, not going to just do a chris farley here, but when, when you did that one like was was that for you that really make it was at the best of wings. Were it was on that record, you think yeah, I think so at the time it was here we you know, we did a crazy thing with wings, because I finished with the beatles. I I now, the the question of
what am I going to do now So the first thing I did was the mccartney record, which was literally just me, plug it into the back of a student. Four track I'm just recording anything came after that, then I started to get a little bit more sophisticated, but uhm yeah. You know it is good that nowadays the come round yeah, you know and people seem to think that what we did, it is good, but it's interesting too. Because with all the experimentation you did, which I think it was like. Certainly with the mccartney records than rahman and even you know some of the earlier wing stuff wildlife right right is that with the vehicle like you know, is you know it's kind of all over the place in your two can chances that all the way through it you're making hits right about dozen or so wings hits so did you know when you recording those records, were you, like. You know like well this one's this one to him, that's going to sell the record and the rest we can just fuck around with and have a good time.
I mean? I didn't always know that it's not everyone in bands. They don't always know which the hit is. You can make it Sometimes you just think. Oh, it's ok get back. Was one with wheels for me. I didn't reckon it at all. Now I just thought his diligent. I didn't go overboard. I thought it was just a sort of jam. Yeah remember somebody code when they first heard it. I left it a credit record, yeah, ok, I got with it. You know yeah, but uh. Well, that could have been time changing to that? You know. Maybe this sort of elaborate pop thing was changing into something a little harder and just you know, maybe people work. kind of getting a little less able to a process the pop and just get back, that's got it. That's good, perfect nailed it. no band on the run. When I, when I did that, who released it and it came out okay and then it was doing this little thing of dropping back down the charts-
and I thought well, that's it you know, but the call from al corey of capital like real promotion guy, got my numbers poor, but You gotta. Let me work this record. I said what do you mean? You said you know no, there's no way you said you got singles on there. You haven't released since going to call back up. Take it right back up to number one. And I said well talk to me and he said jet. You haven't got so he He named that I unspotted that band on the run itself. You gotta do it so sometimes it takes other people to to tell you why what's good was, let me roll it on there too, oh man, but like that that record industry doesn't you know it's very exciting that we're here capital you've been there so long, this your first record on capital and along a long time right now, but record industry that guy making that call that still exist today
I think it tells you we had ah b bc when I was playing. Guys this egypt, egypt, station There was one of the guys he and they always kind of pointed to him. He sees the guy yeah, so they still, you still got them You still got it capital What is the story about the the band on the run? Would you record that lagos there nigeria yeah. What was why? I don't know if you remember, but at the time it was kind of fashionable for people not to record in the studios, so people will go in places to record stones whose tax reasons, but they were in the south of france right it most. What's wrong with that, so you people were in different locations. He could went to nashville if I did
they actually from one of them, but I I just wanted to sort of get out of there and just so uh s t m, I, where they had studios. I knew they had a lot around the world and this great big mister ives. So I'm getting the choice of china real lego. Ah that was the one going to do it. You know african music, it could be great. He was great, but they hadn't finished building the studio, uh huh You know it was really basic, but the the I was great. I was I was kind of used to be in africa, but it was a crazy time I didn't I didn't just which the studio will make a record. So many crazy little things you know cootie yeah. he was the and when I arrived for
thing I see in the newspapers He comes to steal black man's music, No, if I even got enough problems, so I get his number. I ring mouse head fellaini fella can't hear here. I hear you've said in the newspaper, come to see you. I said I'm not yeah, you know you coming over stealing magma, I said no, no said comma Who is the studio and I'll play you? A couple of things were doing and you'll see snow like what you doing and we're not going to it's basically all songs, I'd written outside after anyway. So he came over with, like thirty wives, studio, full of ganja I mean he was one cat used to have a bottle of whiskey. pound of pot, a pound of yeah.
But he was he was. We turned out to be real good friends and he got. He is, he said, no you're not in order to in the was that when ginger baker was down there, well yeah no injuries, brenda yeah, okay, I'll tell his story. Okay, okay and now you brought in europe were going. Fella invites us to his club, which is outside lagos It's called the african shrine and so we go yeah okay. So this is a few of us little white people think about me and a couple of friends on da, so we go out, but I say look the thing is: let's not smoke any part, because it's pretty crazy. When we're out in the jungle
and it's pitch black and you know when they talk about the african experience. This was so I'm gone, ok, everyone! We agree, we're not going to smoke in it. So we sitting there with fellow haven. What's gold gray, you know the love of grade. You know can't wait to hear the music on this guy come. Who is crouching, these wanna fellows guys and he got a package of rothman cigarettes and they're all joints. So he says you want one of these. I go n experts and I carry Well, then the guy carries on round and he gets the ginger baker. general yeah bunya show in his lighting up and goes ginger baker, They only manner, no, never refuse a smoke haha ok. I have one of those man I creeped out! Ah I mean it was so strong
I mean stronger than anything. I'd ever had. I don't know, there's something in it that good night, you know in the end. It was a good night. Yeah drugs could go either way. You know that I do know that I have experienced a you, are sometimes the faces get evil and then you gotta wait it out. I didn't like didn't. The tapes of the record gets stolen, put him on. more cassette, which is the way used to demo I had all the songs written, they were all nicely ready to go yeah. I would look at each one and they make the record right on dde. Oh god I mean I could say: well it wasn't just another ordinary trip to lagos yeah it was. It was crazy, so much so that when we got back, I got a letter from am I saying under no circumstances go to lagos, there's been an outbreak of cholera uh, and that's the kind of place we were in. You know, but uh
when we were there, they said. this this area, which is like gated community, all the sort of white people live and we invited to dinner there and said whatever you do, don't walk back. Your place. We had it like the place of course. What do we do? We walk back here, so it's just me and linda she cameras offer I've got like tapes and I got cassette So I got the cameras and everything and god so a cop with walking along- and it is black- there's not a lot of st lighting, but we think we know the way is closer here and then you go down there. I remember Walking along on a car pulls up five guys in it. Lights down the window. Now I think, wants to give us a lift
or just so cool. I see you. You want to go. I know you do but we're walking man. It's great! Thank you very much now just got off you go. you so much. That's so great on then go for one. I was still and you can imagine the conversation, so why do I really hope you're better you're, a anyway You watch it on the window again and he says: are you traveler. So I said yeah we traveled? So they go on another twenty yards on the but they've had enough now, so the five of them all get out and- you're gonna morgas, one of them's got a little ones, got a knife, no you're not giving us lived 'cause they sometime. I should get back in the car you just too cool get in. Yeah. I push him into the car like anyone now, there's five of them around us and
They were modulus on linder, beautiful she scream. And what do you want? What do you want? What do you want? They go money, money, money, camera cam so we run unloading all we give him everything you know and in that the cassettes, for the others, my download which to me is precious to them. I that they re recorded over it is this you know rubbish? Could you could torture african stuff going on da? oh yeah. They they took, they took everything in the still screaming, don't touch him, don't touch, he's a musician, that are gonna, make some difference. You know now you african guys. You look musicians, so you know let him off. Anyway, they went, and we just- I said: write we walk fast, but uh and luckily I remembered it also- we still can do and we ought studio and these these were african guys, in the studio and
one of the guys he said you're lucky. He lock it in can kill you, they figured you wouldn't recognize him again. They were lucky. That was a risky album to make. It sounds like really in it honestly. So let's talk about the new record because there's things that you do on it that are sort of occurring theme that, like I just want to know when it started and what the choices are on that, like you do at the beginning, so have like that thing, where it's just sort of sound station sound and then there's sort of some sound underneath that and it's just for forty five seconds and you begin the album proper and then at the end the sound comes back. And then you kind of guitar into another song. But what are these book? and then what was the I could have done that a lot We gotta love. We don't hear on sergeant, pepper, sergeant, pepper. Anything else like it seems to me that there's book ends on the second mccart not on ram. There's like a lick or a repetition of a song, or maybe some wildlife. At the end, you know you write little repetition, song
yeah. You know it just seemed like a good idea at the time says that there's no big concept in mind where you're like no, not really high it all together. You know what will happen. Is I had this painting with his on the cover yeah that I did quite awhile ago and I was looking at it and I named it egypt station right. You know that's quite a good title. We are quite like I was just as a title, so it's just there's no mystery to it. You just all the minute we got station. I then said you know what we could we could make a station. We could do that. Then all the songs can be different stations, so that so we decide to sort of bring your the the concept thing came later. Oh is a concept record. After all, it is the return of the concept rude we, but there's a lot of records you did like that were sort of had these, like the like. Second side abbey road and then it seems like there was some stuff with wings that have long pieces that have several different songs within them
and that I don't know if that's a concept record, but that I see it for unique to you. It seems like there's one that you were the first guy to really do that not sure I was. I think there were a couple of people in england doing that there was a thing back. For teenage opera This guy had a little hit with it and he I was kind of operatic. He had little episodes. We think that Maybe where that idea came from, then picked it up yeah and he did some stuff, quadrophenia and stuff. He started to get a bit like that, but to form I've always liked yeah this form to do and you got to figure out how to get from this to this, and we did it with the beatles and what about musical theater. It seems like there's how many songs- and I think it's getting back to this- the kids thing that have a sort of there's right there theatrically and they have a sort of john to them. That seems almost like they could be in musicals was something that influence you
ever no, not really, but I know what you mean: I'd listen to some of the things on the album track. The despite repeated warnings. That is something that you could almost see. The cast of limb is true I think it would work is it just in general? You never had. I don't I don't to think of it. Is that no and like it like on this record. To that. Like there's points when when people write, songs were like, like there's the song, I don't know, or the song happy with you were like I'm wondering like is paul? Okay, so there's like you know. I was living in such way and then you came along and then, like or that you know you're sort of eggs, so I know yeah. I saw that 'cause. You know you think about your own story or more people going to think, and I thought that, yeah. You know you know I'm kind of bearing my soul a bit on. I don't know but that is wait. A minute. Uh is you, it is me yeah, but then I saw I mean
you know, yesterday, all my troubles seem so far away now looks as other here to stay. Yeah, that's pretty gloomy yeah, but you know that didn't nobody thought. Is he okay, that's who, but I know what you are you okay, then I was okay. Okay, but am I now I don't know you know moment- end songs. Now gets a song. You know it's like chickens yeah he's writing about little dorrit with he's, not Little is not a little girl. No, I know he's a big man with a beard. I understand that I I just sometimes when I'm listening to songs when I'm walking into the words. I assume that the guy who wrote them is going through this stuff. Yeah. Well I don't know that song. What is inspired by a sort of moment that can happen in life. You know, I mean it's easy he's kind of pretend just everything. It's lovely and hunky dory, but
Nothing. Anyone anyone's life is like that are so you know, there's always arguments. You know. I've got kids and grandkids I mean take now. I got eight grandkids, give it up yeah, I had nothing to do with it? you got, the ball rolling. Know you get you ball. You know in families this gotta always be a moment where something goes wrong. Somebody doesn't agree with you or whatever, and this This is one of those moments. I can't remember at the moment was now, but I was a bit are the great thing about songs is you can where are your way out of it by I think, a soldier, it's like, the really nice aspect of songwriting and we'd, always known that for years you know when johns writing he's a real nowhere, man yeah talking about himself and how he was feeling really like an old woman. But
he wasn't a no remembered, but for the time he'd written, then we made the record he felt better. actually you know yes there are things comedians. Do that to the to the talk about the crappiest things in their life they kind of working through it sure they just drag audiences through their problems and everyone laughed exactly it's perfect. We don't care if you walk away going like I better keep these problems. not really necessarily so you know. I don't know what did come from that. You know where I was really feeling like a crows up. My window, I got dogs on the door right. to happen. How does it happen for you? What is what is the process of songwriting because there's one on there, the one do it now is almost like a pep talk. yeah. It's almost motivational yeah Well do it now was an expression. My dad had in fact, you know. I often think of things he said, and they they'll didn't get in songs, yeah yeah, I use it. I put it there if it weighs a ton. It's just like these old
Expression jail people used to say so I wrote it. computer. Do it now he used to say you should do it now din here, which I always thought was a great name for a record label. Then yeah sure a student mister said no but anyway, so that was do it now. So I thought that good idea actually and do it now, like you say, it's send advice thing you know so uh just made it into a song and kind of fictionalized but kept the fear of do it now, while the vision still clear while you're feeling still here, come on it now The thing is is not a responsibility so much, but as a songwriter, you do realize that people are going. Listen to this, and if you reach. Someone something good with a good bit of advice, that sky, the valuable is obviously after have to make a good song about, but You know so so I do that and
that is one of the fabulous things when you you're more come up to me in the street. And say something like you know my kid had cancer, but they just listen to beatles. music all the time and he recovered, and you go No, I mean that was not a bonus. We ever expected her, but it sure is fantastic life. Everybody is beatle. Songs have gotten all of us through something, that's for sure, Yeah yeah I do so I'm you know, I'm very proud and you kind of know that. So if I write a new song, going that way. I won't resist it right. I think everything that could be someone I mean there's a song on the call who cares which is about you know. Have you ever been bullied and I know this millions of people out there who have so in my mind, I'm thinking of you know teenage girl
Some words could being cyberbullied ear. An I'm saying. Have you ever been hurt by the words people say: it'll it'll it'll are here? Well, don't worry, who cares what the idiots saying and comes into a song that you do and you enjoy doing, but This a message on you hope means, something to someone and get some out of the period makes him feel less alone. I think is also hopefully thing, and there was an song and then this sort of like a little? It's it's, not quite political, but it's just sort of it's about. What's the one about the leader who doesn't know going that's Despite repeated morning, yeah warning yeah yeah. That's sort of almost hopeful apocalyptic on you know. Well, you know. I mean when you read the some and saying the climate change is a hoax.
what has to happen. You know it's like reading about the heat in everyone. The floods waves know the fires. Well, I don't, it's a hoax. I think anyone who just blatantly just go there, it's a hoax. hasn't, got it right. So that's what I in writing about so, despite repeated warnings, this captain is going to take take boat onto the rocks rocks and you know, let's try and stop him yeah we're going to try yeah. It's pretty scary, you still vegetarian yeah yeah and I always will be yeah. People sometimes say to me: don't you miss the odd sausage? The outside? I don't I mean. I hate to tell you these days, there's really good, you've seen all the advances in vegetarian cuisine. That must have been a lot of hitman No, it's true! We were because
we were. I was started being vegetarian linda about forty years ago, yeah and then you really couldn't get anything. Remember: we've gone upper motor way of freeway and they of these stops where you can pull off and get better open food and pulled in, it was a ham sandwich in adair sandwiches are below near. There was nothing, we said, there's nothing when it be great. If there was like a van The option was only we can get started us thinking about it and You can go like there's a fancy restaurant there crossroads where you can get across from red. Even there is millions of and they're good right thing. You know they taste good yeah, so. I love over. I feel very good about that. Good, here's other question and we can kind of wrap it up. A move towards that. So what is it about groups? Because it seems like you know, you did a couple of half and they were so records, but you like being in a band value. You know because you've been with these guys touring for the overtime over twelve years. Yeah. What do you like? You?
you'd rather have a band yeah. You know it's. I think, there's something great about the camaraderie mayor team yeah. I've always liked that yeah anet. it's just nice to together. Do things with people sometimes feel sorry for the solar star, yeah who's, like A is very famous, but he's going back. You know to his hotel room and is like nobody, the the band don't live in my hotel ray, but you can at each other the back. We can have yeah, we have a lot. Before after the show we do a thing, the runner we they get off? We get before our crowd goes, oh yeah! So you know we hop on a bus and then it's time we're a little bright and we talk about. Things, you know we debrief and talk about the show and stuff and that's great yeah. I love that and when you like when you play the beatles songs like like. which ones like. Continually still move, you
I think let it be and think, hey jude. The great thing is at the end of it, you got all these people and it may be fifty thousand people and this real sense of community- and you know in these days when people are, you know, despairing this and I get letters of people who heard something or been to a concert now. Man and I was feeling so bad. But then I went to the concert and it just is great. He to be the kind of mc and now you and you just see them all. Looking at each is a can be very emotional. You know, I love, I feel very proud. I kind of come up with that he wants with letter p, which is the other one I was doing a song. I was playing it in a concert and
I think it was south america- and this is very handsome man in front row kind of thing a toll meant, and he standing with this very, very dark hair and dark beard and there's a very beautiful girl with him who cannot Obviously his daughter and she's looking up to him and he's looking down at her on the ticketed on they singing, let it be I'm seeing in the and I'm welling up 'cause there's. That is like real mode People just in mean something, and he You know he's really into his daughter, I know important. All that is, you know, so it's hard to get through the song. Both are great moments here and they still happen yeah. It's great. It's great me up all nice one mark. Thank you very easy, far mccartney ways in gentlemen. Thank you everyone,
well wow man what a day, what an hour life I'm living paul mccartney again, his new album is egypt. Station comes out tomorrow. number seven and also, if you're not familiar with the beatles you might want to I'm not even gonna recommend you a record. Just look at the cuts and decide which era looks good to you all right. Also, folks: go to w t, f, pod dot com to get your tour dates for me. my new t shirt for you for gift and you can see for w t f premium to get all nine hundred plus episodes has episodes like keith richards, bruce springsteen, neil young to staying some generational mode here musicians but but yeah man, yeah wow,.
bucket list shit. And- and