« WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

Episode 963 - Zoe Kazan

2018-10-28 | 🔗
Zoe Kazan doesn't think much about the concept of "Hollywood royalty." Yes, her parents are in show business, but she still had to run the gauntlet of failed auditions and odd jobs. Yes, her grandfather's body of work is legendary, but she had a relationship with him that was completely removed from his career. Zoe talks with Marc about paving her own way, as well as working with the Coen Brothers, enjoying the unexpected success of The Big Sick, and collaborating with her partner Paul Dano on their new film Wildlife. This episode is sponsored by Screen Dive from 20th Century Fox, SimpliSafe, and Amazon Music.

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
All right. Let's do this. How are you at the fuckers what the plot bodies, what the buccaneers, what the fuck's there is what's happening, a mark mare- and this is my podcast w e f welcome to it. I am still in. New york city midtown, not they're, not It is part of the city really a lot of stuff here, but I it's odd. That when I lived in this city I don't know that I spent any time here almost ever case, you go to the park? Casually go the key, the daily, which is now just a empty awning around the corner. Struggling with a certain amount of isolation. It's an odd thing. I I guess and talk about that in a minute it has been a pretty narrowly week. Last week, a pretty fucking her rent.
This week last week. with no real relief in sight with a point morally bankrupt president, who does not know to address nor care to address- and I think might even not so secretly support the actions that took place last week, horrible attempted bombings, executions of african americans, a massacre of Jews in
country- and I I know that this stuff has been talked about a lot, but it's hard if you're a decent person with at least a small, even just a fragment of a moral compass and a conscience and some capacity for empathy and some capacity for seeing how this affects people and feeling horrible for what's happening. You know it's hard to to not be living in it with a certain amount of heartbreak and horror and fear. And how do you sort of manage at what you do as everything just gets, plowed under and sort of You know me of information and mine fuckin this, but I think the saddest part and the most horrible part outside of the deaths himself and the terrorism
Is that wondering just how many people in this country think what's happened is tremendous whatever the case was with that a lunatic who sent those bombs? How many people this country think this is tremendous. This is the country going in the right direction. How many people in this country, when they see a african americans executed, think this is terrific. This is exactly the direction. We should be going, how many people the country when they see a slaughter of jews at a bris at a synagogue. Think like this is it. This is the turning. Finally. Finally, this country is heading in the right direction. How many of those are there out there
think about it. A lot guitar, fine, and I don't mean to start the monday off in a dark way. But I have to address it, and I was in park city here. working on the joker movie the day that the bomb was found at robert de Niro's restaurant, Robert de niro's, building That was the day we were doing our scene together. So I'm heading into the city with the teamster. and we don't know what's going to happen is: is robert de niro going to show up? Does he have a lot of stuff to deal with? Was anybody hurt, what's happening, and I got there and he was there spent the time on the phone dealing with it. What I imagined was you know how to handle the situation
she may be had employees at were scared. I dont know I didn t at in talk to him about that, but he showed up for work and he was some resolute and strong. Yet he wasn't. He wasn't afraid for me. mike and awkward time be meeting him and be working with him, but he was pretty unfazed. And we talked about it a bit I am, I am reluctant to to sort of talk about whatever conversations we had almost about anything because I know there are sort of kind of. parasitical outlets that you don't want to paraphrase sing, so I don't want to do any paraphrasing myself and and fuel a fire, but we did have some other conversations a bit I didn't know It- the scene that I am doing is relatively tight, but it is. You know we had to shoot it a lot and we had to you, you know sort of be with each other. In the hallway in between takes and talked a bit about movies. We talked
it about ray liotta. We talked a bit about dumb, the king of comedy Very sweet guy, very soft, spoken guy, but I was just very sort of a man that is, is lack of fear in the face of of what he had to deal with that morning and his professionalism. But on top of that, though, that just the fact that their if he was not it. It did not to from what I could tell. I can't speak for him, but he seemed to just the resolve in terms of of he just was not shaken, so it's fucked up It's fucked up in an even more frightening as we converge on this election. So just the add on oh, where you are what you're thinking in terms of this, this but I got to mail my ballot in tomorrow. I'm in california, then that's! This is one of those situations where you like, you think you're, you think your state government,
solid or that you don't have to engage it's clear that the that you have to engage and you have to vote Because there is no way the falconer can't see the falcon and in some strange beast, slouching towards bethlehem and something needs to give in if it doesn't during this uh. This midterm- I I don't even know What's going to happen to the reality of this country, or or certainly what's going to happen to the spirit of a trying to correct things, because this is a big mind fuck for everybody any way I like
a little bit. You know I had a guest on not long gone in, Erin drop, one he's a design or a graphic designer sort of a genius sort of a compulsive genius, a man fascinated with the art of the logo and he's a an incredible artist in his own right wrote road. amazing book we had a lovely interview and we asked aaron to do a special edition. W t F shirt for us and he did an amazing one. I put the picture on twitter and instagram, so you can see what it looks like and people who come to my show at the beacon on november tenth, your new york city, wherever first crack at it, and that's the first place it's going to be on sale, so you become people will be the first ones to wear it. Then afterwards, we'll have it for sale in the merch store. So you can get them before the holiday it. I you know it's a drap one's amazing cause. He has an appreciation of graphic design of logo, art of the history of it that
It just informs everything he does great shirt. So there's that I didn't mention today that I had zoe khazanah on she's got a film that she co wrote with Paul Dana her partner and they're, not married, but they're together. And he directed it and is now playing in select cities. It's called wildlife will talk to her. In a few minutes. I had a nice conversation with her. I enjoyed the movie, I watched it very intently. I I like Paul Dana I've talked to him before so so that's coming up. I guess I should talk a little bit about new york. if I could, because I'm I'm continuing feeling a bit alienated from it, and I guess I should outside of the politics of the week and the slaughter and blood wedding of the week and the fucking horrendous terrorism that is happening in our country. I should say that my experience on the joker was insanely exciting and he, like I said it's, not it's not it's not a huge part. It's not a hero,
seen even by ten gauge as an actor with Robert de Niro and with walking joaquin phoenix was was pretty. Amazing. I didn't really talk to joaquin phoenix. He seems to be pretty submerged in his work, but it was sort of a bap pisum into a movie making that I had not to. I had a little part in almost famous a million years ago, and I've done a couple of little movies, but this was you know This was big time and in a was in I was hoping I would do good work, and I think I did all right. It was funny because when we were doing the scene yet deniro I yelled through went to the director and then the director comes to me, and there was this moment where, so I can say you will big little big at the end there so take the time to make adjustments did a little acting, but it was experience, I think it's going to be a pretty wild movie. It's a def, it's definitely kind of
hallucinatory to be you to be on a film set that that is a different world for you, one thousand two hundred and thirteen hours day anyway. King said to sort of move into more about new york that I was feeling every day, which was in a stallion witnessed algae means in the sort of darkness at the edge of it. The I used always say that loss angeles is horrible, because it's hot place to feel that you can feel very alone there and isolated, but I think new york, it's worse. If you feel isolated in You know cause I'm here, I'm stuck in midtown him in a hotel. There things I want to do, there's always things at the other part, being in manhattan is sort of the party. Your brain is like new york city. I should be doing something I should be a man there's a million things going on. There's a guy what one might have come, I'm not doing something that It's kind of an unnerving cuz that goes right to like everyone else, doing something but me, and
and then that goes to like I'm missing everything in that goes to like I'm, a fucking loser. Look at me sitting here doing nothing. but those are old patterns, but I do think that being isolated in a city that's filled with people is definitely a worse feeling than being isolate. In a city where you don't see anybody around. because when you're on your own head among people, that's a that's a type of loneliness that day really kind. Pounds you because, like they're all right there in right there, their all people, why can I feel connected to people but when you are now laying you're sitting alone, your ass, you like both nobody around so fuck it it's different and I think he can ground yourself in ITALY. Differently, but I'm just sort of struggling with these links, I need to go down and he d like. I should go down the sour get a couple sets in here and there thereby just haven't. I haven't. They do and then I start to think about what the place used to be. I start thinking about how how
was one patrice. O'neal was around when Greg geraldo was around and you know what's going on down there now they changed the whole way out of the patent. No, it's just. I just have to sit with the fact that it's ok to being hotel room. Do my work talk to you from the doolittle reading fast, you're about my diet and walk around here: go shopping for all men, milk and fruit, and that's ok, that's not a bad afternoon! also that I'm an old middle aged man now to run around what am I going to run around and do you know it's interesting is that I watched my buddy Steve directed the the new adam sandler special on netflix and what years ago. Sandler and I had a problem. I saw him recently at an event and he was nice to me. I'd love to to talk to him, but I never
It was a little older to be to be grabbed by the sandwich thing. I don't I would have been grabbed by the sound thing, but certainly have known him and certainly have like some of the work is done. But I'll tell you this stand up. Special. Is it's a very touching very person an odd we very sand or special and the effect of it watch the whole thing, and I very I was moved it and it was it. Was great show he somehow able to in time what makes him San were from one how you were a kid if you grew up with them, but also to be mature and and and share the life is living now in and write? Some clever songs and there's a joke in their about his dad. They killed me. I actually gave a square it out. A few tears. I laughed a few times. I enjoyed it, I'm just saying that, because I know what some people think I I am ban
I think I have judged Adam harshly when I was younger and more angry, but I thought the special was great and this isn't even a paid ad ha. What do you think of that? I'm just saying a fellow comedian who I am and seen do stand up in a long time if, if ever really furrow, for a whole hour. I did a great standup special, that's that why is it so hard for me? Just say that why why do I gotta be that? Why is it so hard huh? So Zoe is an a is here and not here. Why and it recorded it at home, but that I watch the film wildlife and I watched it very intently, and I and I enjoyed it and I thought it was beautifully, shot and beautifully executed. She co wrote the film with Paul de know that he directed it and it's now playing in so exit he's in this is my conversation with her about her
ok, all right. I grew up in africa. You do not only spent like you know too, if they're shooting something, if had to go there for the shooting. Exactly it's been ten years ten years since been through turkey to shoe thing seems like there's everyone shoots her all the time. Would you shoot your shot in santa fe recently, but It's a little swankier yeah. I shot a movie called in the valley of allaah, oh yeah who is in that movie: charlize Theron, yeah, that, like a big movie, wasn't it I dunno. I had a little part in it. Early on yeah. It was one of those hey hi,
okay, I'm going to go now, part of stuff like when you're a girl, it's like hey hi, I'm going to be naked and now you're going to kill me parts. It was one of those things that was what was in the breakdown naked gets killed. It says must be okay with nudity, unlike the first twenty things that I did. Oh I had to do that with Gwo. It was only right, the other women ray had assigned him, and what am I going to know so I sign one I showed my butt in what thing is in the first season, you know when I walked to the door or try swipe, locate, nash, I'll reigners, my butt, he's my own but had fill up, I'm sorry You know, I don't know how would have felt if it was my front, like you know, cuz you like that, I guess. Would you have to Take your mind is like going to live forever as a meme or on a thing going to be always available right. Yes, I know your betty, has a lot of those, and I both you do too.
And how do you feel about that? Not good, not good, to have the new things and how it doesn't count. It doesn't feel good unlike when you're then lay trying to make deal yeah, their they're like two inches of her, but crack in or like six, no six inches of six, I of side buber something that's in your deal, yeah, let's that's crazy at and we're in we're in and that's a negotiating point cause you're like now. She has wanted to nudity how about a little just a little bit yeah So then you end up with inches of buttcrack oh and they actually measure it or you fat, just a general if you've never been on a set and they're like yeah, we just get there. as measurer out no, but then up happening that onset someone costs know for the shot
be better rights kind of weasel yeah but Did you grow up out here? I did. I grew up in venice, beach, venice, beach. So when I watch glow, it looks very familiar to me cause. I guess I was born in three rights. like those are your girl, his memories, treasurer women wearing that kind of stuff on the beach and and men. Looking just like, you did sure like me, acting like me totally yeah, it's like every single one of my dad's friends. I know I think, that's what I think. It's a nice about my character about SAM Sylvia as it does get catch a break. From the ladys get even given the climate were living it because he reminded them of a people that they knew they're dead. Like my pediatrician boy,
I don't think sam's that terrible know. I mean it in a good way. No, no, I know he's he he's a little old school, a little sexist, but he's he's you know he breaks down chair yeah. He played really well. Thank you very much. That's very nice! You to say I love it. Then you're you're, you're best pals with the very yet daddy and I go way back. I've mina sister It took me a while to like the first season. I was just scared of her really yeah. I was like I dunno even how to beat talk to that person, and I don't usually have that problem really. Why do so sorry she's intense by then, it betty and I were better, it was good. I, however, I think she's great yeah me too. Do. I I I I Met betty when she was at the williamstown theatre festival with some friends of mine williams Tom ass. She spoke area, wasn't sure and- and I remember
her from far away and thinking she looked really confident and then you know getting to know her and realizing that she had a lot of a lot of work to do on that. front, announces like sobering, beautiful words, interesting in talking about grown out of a set of publicly that your house? I came up here and she's very much- a product of this business It is like new york theatre, so you get these two completely different approaches in a way yeah and experience with with acting right now that are kind of going head to head yeah and it's pretty cool. I have that in common we both came up in the theater, so it's one of the things that, like You know we met probably an audition rooms long before we became friends, So how does it work? So you grew up in venice beach, and you have this. You have the sister that I think I met it's my my who lived by Sarah, my girlfriend, Sarah, the painter and that's it just one sister distant to us.
You grew up in show business really yeah sort of That's why is ever like used by, but in like in the sense it's sort of like or just what your parents did exactly I grew up with like screenwriter parents. I grew group with two people who are like sitting at home hunched in front of their computers. They write together yeah, they wrote, they wrote two movies too. There were two movies together, one of which got made this movie this children's. Mathilda, they run or yellow, and then they both written a bunch separately. third, there working screenwriters, both of them gap. Their writing right now. Yet, as we speak, will not it'll the snow, but I mean do you know what they're working under they talk to you about it yeah sure my mom talks we thought it more than I dont want. As more six already exists, separate writing rooms see yeah But you also are a sort of legacy right after your grandpa is
it was a director, a director elia, Alina leah, kazanovitch answering in the movie. They know how to pronounce his first name. They didn't really go. Did you know I didn't? I did it wrong and the correct amounts I've handled, but did you know him yeah? He died when I was twenty and was pre cognisant all too to the end get hardly you know I feel it. I got the best of him the grandfather sort of because he was like seventy five when I was born, so he was like ready to be a grandparent retired completely is sort of retired. He didn't make any movies or directed me plays after I was born, but he He wrote his autobiography after I was born and was still writing until he died. Did you read his autobiography? Never never did huh yeah, I I've skimmed through it here. Like actually just in the last year and was like. I never need to read this
I you just want to know all that stuff there like there are certain things as a grand daughter. You don't need to know about your grandfather, there's a lot, I think about his sex life in it, but also it's like you know you have a you, have a like a personal experience with someone, and then the world has an experience of them and I feel like there's some part of me that just wants to protect my own experience of him yeah. That makes sense but like coming up when you were a when like started, you sort of realize who he was. Did you go watch his movies inform you in any way. I didn't know that he was a director until I was like twelve. I knew he was like a powerful person because the way people, We did him, but I didn't really know what he did and no one ever talked to me about it, and you don't growing up and growing in l a like every Kid I knew their parents were basically in the industry. You know like, Where'd. You go to one of the schools no but like,
the was just. It was like my two best friends growing up authored, film editors like another one of my friends like to add two parents who are working on. As a jobbing actor yeah and another friend's dad was like a carpenter for the movies. You know they just didn't, seem that weird and and- and I just didn't- I dunno like he was just my grandpa and then I went to different school for middle school, andrea, my middle school drama teacher said oh, are you related to, which is the first time that had ever happened to me and she said his she said it wrong. Yeah, like I, and also I called him a lia, because papua is greek for grandfather and I know it's, no, my grandpa s name is ITALY a papoose and then you know, went home and ass. My parents about in the in the night me? I think viva Zapata, apart the first one I saw you seem to travel from.
And then on the waterfront and then on the waterfront and streetcar. I think those for you know it's really hard to find for awhile will face in the crowd. Yeah, that's the best fucking movie misery, and it's pretty apropos of right now is absolutely yeah. Absolutely it's just a crazy movie. I mean I remember when I saw it I'm like. Why didn't I know about this because I saw like within the last decade me too: you did too yeah. I didn't see it until like four or five years. This was one of those ones that was easily available. You had to order, like I don't remember where I saw it or why I saw it, but I was like holy shit yeah that and panic in the streets I hadn't seen until recently yeah like I get. Two big ones were like splendor in the grass right that was his in east of eden on the waterfront and and the one we other want. The magyar americans hand tat. The others were big movies yet, but you I just don't like, I think, is interesting- that we go people, don't really realize you realise people have a certain concept of celebrity and of you know the movies, but it is an industry town and like the fact,
carpenters in the movie like the it's like this, this engine employs all levels of workers and it's just like the business. Yeah completely costume desire, yeah, it's crazy, like that. It sometimes annoys me people's impression. Like hollywood, it's like it's a big. Packing machine? You know what I mean it only used to annoy me at first when I I started out, acting as if it would be like oh you're, like a hollywood royalty or something it'd be like that is so far wave I was raised. You know like I was raised in such a grounded way and by writers by writers, exactly hardly the biggest introverts in the world and so loving like such a our no weak? We sat down as a family for for dinner every single night of
I out of the room, that's exactly right, chop up some garlic, throw in the pasta and then go back in a room. That's exactly right! probably the I you know I just have to deal with that in neo telling somebody I was going to interview you're a nurse. Those are royalty, those I guess easier for them now I don't know, that's true. I don't think it away with. Is it him? Well, I can't pretend to know right because I only know what I know, but I the assume that it is slightly easier at the beginning to get a mere. I'm sure, you're gay- with an agent or with labour rights, but I'm it would be foolish to think that that didn't give me some kind of like that right The real thing is that it doesn't give you a spanish for very long Well, you gotta! Deliver! The goods will hire you again right, but your your your entry in is a little smoother. I would. I would guess that that's true yeah
yeah. So when did you decide to like that that something you wanted to do cause you can't we both you and your sister are doing it yeah my sister's, accurate. I think, I did as soon as I knew. What kind of a job that was like I remember it as a job first, not as like. I want to be a movie star now, yeah. That seems like a good job yeah. I think I I I think as a very little kid it didn't seem like I didn't really understand what an actor did you movies and it's just like the people on the screen. probably at like nine or ten sort of occurred to me, that that was a job that was pierre duly. I pretend for living in here when rigour, layer, fats in like a good job, but I to be a writer before I wanted to be an actor so that when came first
Where were you when you start writing things for a thing like this, for I could spell by weight I mean what did you think writing for movies or just writing. I thought it wanted to be like a poet, oh yeah, sure Good job, great great job, very lucrative, yeah! the security totally poet game yeah. You can be secure that you're never going to make any money. You can be secure that if you don't get a teaching job, it's not going to really pan out yeah, that's right, so a lot of poetry and then stories and then of those poems hold up. So you know there there are little kids poems media says. Oh we don't you yeah, okay, good way like zoo some people do that too. You know, so I think they do firstly, because, though Caldwell was like a famous actress and and her parents shoot. When I met her, I said. Oh people always call me so because of you- and she said: oh, my parents didn't know how to pronounce the name. They miss price. Her life,
by the time I was in high school? I was like You know, writing little plays them out. I started doing that as a kid I missed part, I I feel partially to blame for my sister's acting career, because I, like I enlisted her into my projects as a little kid. How much was the age difference or three years apart his younger okay. So it's like starting it. Probably five or six did you know putting on plays on our futon in our living room for you folks? Were they proud their writers will choose she's a writer and are they are a little trepidation, whom I wanted to be an actor. They are pretty apes sure thing about people in show business, it's I can't you do anything. I now do you wanna life of heartbreak, climate on ebay, reliant area. Why there action. Why do you crave this horrible thing? You know when I was graduating high school. I wanted to go to conservatory
My parents told me that they, wouldn't you know pay for it. They wouldn't help me. If that's what I did we want to go to college. They wanted me to go to college college, so I did- and I thank you- One of the better parenting moves they ever made. Oh yeah, they decide after you go get an educator Yolanda, so grateful to have my mind: yeah, oh yeah, it's good Wait. So he can act. So you acted in high school. I acted in high school. I wanted to act professionally. They were like dead set against it. Did you go out for stuff in high school? Absolutely not. They wouldn't they wouldn't let me, but then you could have You know I had like a like producers and stuff, I give my parents their cards at like a my school plays and things oh really yeah and they were like no, and I was devastated. I thought they ruining my life, or you can read more here, they ruined your life. You could have been one of those weird child stars that kind of
everyone looks at within a bizarre way at this point? For luck, that's what happened to her. She was our cured in that thing you ever when she was seven member. When she was twelve yet view voice, dodger boy now and yet combat, I agree completely at the time. I thought that they were little like actively trying to ruin my life okay, so the big fight at the kazan household was like. Why can't I go to conservatory and then and then I applied to regular school and you know learn learned how to think and where'd. You go yale, you won t need in didn't study acting while there a myth. Perception of the the acting school at yale. That's roger amethyst graduate row. I did undergrad theater like I would dump doubled with english, in theater and did a bunch of players there, which was a you know, a good chunk of my education, but
I studied other stuff the awards, you measure english, english and theater and I like, took a bunch of writing classes and and then also you know the stuff that I remember the stuff that I think like I should have done. More of that is the stuff that I had to do for my requirements. Like like bioethics seriously cause. I remember that stuff way more than I remember like you know I remember iser yeah exactly that's right. Yes, exactly because they're bioethics, you know you're weighing like they're, you know they're. So I gives this right or is this wrong? This is the scenario sort if I gave it to resonate with you, because it's challenges you morally totally, and also it's a part of my brain I'd never used before. So he never weight as right more wrong before Yet if I lived a completely amoral existence until then did it
alright thanks. Quite yet, thank god for bioethics knew straight for hours. He hadn't done a bad road. Just didn't know the difference, so alright. Well, you know there's still time for that. You know you can sort of brush up on that stuff on your own. You think about it. I think that going back to school, you really I'm now, I'm fifty I've a day now that that hold back to school thing is faded. In the past. I think that it like a pipe dream. I, it wants in my thirty sandia, as in living in new york and I can't remember it must have been in my mid thirties and I'm like, I didn't, take a class at the new school and you take a philosophy, class yeah and I was just How can a lot of pod? I don't know what I was thinking, but it was hard in like me- and I became a smart ass I do my homework is exactly like. I was in college like nothing had changed. There was no kind of like I'm grown up. Now I can write. It was ridiculous. I I really struggled in my philosophy, classes and in school, where you wanted
to be like. Are we going to talk and it's like it's? after you, gotta learn the language in some of them are more logic oriented, and it's just so much more like nath than expected. Yeah I hated it. I took a class in college called symbolic logic, and I don't know what the fuck I've no idea. Where did you go to school Boston, university? It's a good school I guess I you know I was english major. You know I I did it enabled me to do what I wanted to do and then wrangle a major together, exactly what I did and- and I I really there's a huge part of me- that's like I wish that still in the mindset of trying to get straight days. You know where to get mine said to be. I guess I dunno like I was still in like I am, and I am wanting to impress my teachers take classes. I'd be good at you know, and then now I'm like. Oh, what a waste of time really yeah like well in terms of yeah in the big picture like what does it matter? If my future liked me
Is that true? But if you are getting straight a's, you are engaging with the material on some level. Maybe it it benefited you in ways. You don't quite appreciate, because you know it somehow what you're you're down on yourself for not taking more challenging, had difficult Similarly, uninteresting classes are absolutely right, as this one large had major energy raising it in yes, absolutely I would have you know your re to this I don't think I can write a good paper. like I. Never even really. I can write I've written books but, like you were to tell me to write a term paper on something I just could I don't know why I couldn't wrap my brain around. It usually ended up like ten pages of opening paragraphs. I just couldn't focus in. I break it down. My philosophy. Professors were like you. Do this thing in your philosophy papers. Were you like trying to make a surprise ending surprise prize, ending what you're going to say then say it
after yale, you've gotten your liberal arts, education rate and your parents here and here like okay, now I'm going to do it yeah so, for years of school decided, it made me think I wanted more school, so I applied to graduate school at yale at yale and I got told to come back next year after you've like had a little life experience for the for the theater progress, yeah, and so I thought, okay, I'm to take I'm to take a year in new york and then I'll apply and I'll go back to school, and I got to new york and I like a really wild year. and good wild yeah the bad wild and then at the end of it, I didn't want to go back and I started having panic attacks. If I had to call up the head of the program and be like I'm having panic attacks and ahead of yale- and he was like, I don't think you want to come. I was like. Oh You wanna come either and then
about a month later I got my first job, so when you're so used the first time you live away from home and you doing. Weird, plays. Are you like what a wild good and while bad? I took a lot of. I took a lot of acting classes with at a place called the to centre that doesn't exist anymore. I never heard that one. I've talked a lot actors about new york acting places than ever thou on theirs. actress named moran, mar know who is on a show called the blacklist, and she was at yale drama when I was yale undergrad and I saw her in a plane. I thought she was really good and I wrote her and said where'd you study and she said I studied at the actors center and so I applied there and I took like a year of class there. Where was that it was in the mid twenties and the nice thing about that schools, they hired a lot of people from graduate programs.
Who are like looking to make a little extra modern aside twist. I do with this teacher cauldron van Lou, who teaches a yell drama here, and he got, you got the yale education got a little bit of it. Yeah and like took like mask class and clown class. Did all of that voice. Production, movement yeah. It was really fun, so was unnecessarily an industry driven class, but it was not. It was not method it was a year. You did all the things I talked to here. Are you guys married you and paul not married penalties like my window, your partner and yet a vague, but I've, member when I was talking to him. I said that is like, I didn't always talk to actors right until I it's sort of acting cause. I you know- and I've always been curious about it. Since I was in college- and I you know, I would see what the training was. But I remember asking him: do you ever do animal work and he's like I do make it does
she's says hi by the way, soon ass, great yeah. I was so happy that leaves was about it. Hoping that animal work is not a regular thing. You have to do in conversation of for sure we'd, but we both have Well, ok, so masks and cloudy. I wish- was great and and also really put me out of my comfort zone. and what is mask work really? Well, it's like The idea of putting on an archetype and then letting that archetype like informal masks with an down. I learned a ton and then I also like did a lot of like weird kind of jobs. Drink had a lot of a lot of sex and
learned how to take care of myself, like I remember one by the doing those two things now. I remember waking up one morning and the like, I was, I was sub, letting us up. meant that had radiator heat- and you know your control us, so I really really hot and dry. When I woke up- and I went to the full general only cold thing was a beer and I opened it and drank it. And then I was like standing in my kitchen like this is probably yeah yeah yeahs thing yeah. You know I was twenty two yeah, it's okay to do it then yeah yeah. So that's the time. You should learn that lesson he as opposed to make a life. That is good for you. You went the right way, agar, so those heater where the words they the ones that have the knob on there. Do I just even doing anything, then someone goes no. Those systems connected to one thing here,
sleeping with all the windows open to the winter. In the middle of the winter racing the fuckin hissing, he had to wait and then you couldn't touch him. I didn't know how to do anything like my laundry was never done. You had your pile person, not just a pile person that, like I'd, run out of underwear and then I would just like go without underwear for a week like it was like really really a lot of learning they had never like. I had just never like with like an adult. I you know I felt bad when I got to school. I didn't know how to rent an apartment or any of that totally. I it's the worst just like loosed and like and and like not having any money but also like you know. I grew up in upper middle class, family layer. It wasn't like there was no safety net, but love you so our lake- ok, me to learn how to add like function and make a budget in your lake. You know you're paying your own rent for the first time and how do we do that and then drink yeah
a well drink that wasn't a problem because I was a girl, so I drank for free for like a year, yeah, yeah or late for three years I drank for free and then I got a boyfriend and then you know I got older and you don't drink for free anymore and am not as much not as much as god. I moved out of the east village that helped me find time they're, so ok so masks clowns. Yemen The teacher was named Jane Anderson and she was great and I was really I really struggled with the clowns it was a really really hard for me to broad I think I was trying. I think I was trying to. Control, other people's perception of me- and I think I didn't like to you- have to like be willing to expose the most foolish part of yours. and I think I didn't want that exposed money too. You can quite frame that into your beer with a way of thinking of, like you know, I can get aids as a clown.
I think I was trying to get aids, is a clown and trying to do without being I incline work is very honest form. I do. I think it's super super honest really. I really worked. I used to do my dishes with my nose on yeah yeah Did you load it into my body? Did you eventually nail it or what I think I got better yeah and then what the practical stuff that you seen, study, classroom stuff like that that was that was what I with ron, and that was really great, and again you know. Actually I don't know I don't know if you took a lot of acting class or not I have found. Is that in the end, if the teachers really good- and I really want to impress them can and learn a lot by doing scenes and class that I learned much more from watching. Other people do scenes the lake
learned a ton in the scenery that I did, but I kind of learned at like six months after the fact and then getting to observe, like an actor on stage and what you think is like getting in their way and then with the teacher identifies is like an and then it helps you see yourself and sending shifts in yourself lay wrote. I feel like my need to. Please is high that, or it was a decade ago, mirror that it took it took me watching. I really learned something right now makes sense, but it seems like being present and listening is a kind of key yeah that wine, but it's de the annex as you like to get to a place where you not just thinking about care, comes my humble to say what we say here comes look at that other person acting she's. and wow okay, oh hi yeah, the you can yeah or or or like the thing is like
doing all your homework and then trying to show that you did all your homework yeah I could homework with anything, I'm almost sort of like last minute. He kind of load up my head kind of person right and, sometimes that works, but I making choices the trick right. Can I led a like? I mean I can You prepare but like a backstory, doesn't help me help you Sometimes yeah. I, No, I did. I did a play in college and the direct director. I worked with was like all about backstory and she made us like right. These elaborate autobiographies. actually we're doing the crucible and like it's all. I eat everything that we invented took us further away from the play. I would think so like it. I think those I think that character autobiography or whatever is only helpful if it helps you engage with. What's actually there to think. That's one of the one thing that, like I I gleaned you know then I was judgmental of
of David mammoths approach early on, but I think it is on the page, and I and I think that trust the writers that you're going to find your way to that person. Do you I do. I agree with you, so you start doing this yeah, so I did a lot of here. I did a lot of theater I've done like as in playing big place, yeah like when you were like just wet. When did you first start doing that you about to turn twenty three. When I did my first play in new york, I did the prime of miss jean brodie, with cynthia Nixon at the new group. by the new group yeah. I remember there yet and you're twenty two I was too. I turned twenty three during that action and now did you know cynthia. I had never at her and tom, my callback for that and how is for what she great she was great. I will say like in terms of that. Like hollywood royalty, like you, have an easy kind of thing like I like, I was,
so eager to dispel that, like I, I think that's part of the reason that I worked so hard. The beginning is that I really wanted people to never be able to say that about me. Never thought of changing her name. No. I, like my name my name's by name. Some people change, and I now but now that's a lie. did think about it. I just didn't think about it for a very long road anyways, I memorized the entire play for the call back, because I thought they might throw something else at me and they did, and I was already off book so I got like. I gave myself a big leg up and I got that part I think partially, because I was that prepared ensign, it was great and taught me a ton and she was also didn't hold my handed in the least, and that was all the two major characters,
and when you just taught by being with her, she actually notice by being with her and then actually like there. There were, but like this guy name, which he can an actor named Matt roush and an actor named John pink out, and they were all in that play with me and they really took care me and were like great, like gave me great feedback, Scott Elliott, who directed it, taught me a ton and was amazing and- and I just like kept my ears open Yeah yeah, like as it must have been just electrifying to be on a real stage, with real grown ups. Tat. Heavy man theatres like intense yeah. Well, like I don't know if you feel this way, but I shall the older I've gotten the more justification I have for confidence and the less confident I am the amount of confidence I had at twenty to twenty three, where I was so much bigger than mine, then my ability right and an eye.
think like if I hadn't had that confidence, I wouldn't have gotten through those first years where everything is so hard and you're getting rejected all the time but like it is like a form of self delusion. Fake it till you make your sure yeah. No, I I and there's a swagger to it. I mean we're, I think, most com, most people that get into this racket or viking, a sensitive, relatively insecure people that you know in your acting in the coffin, I mean it's like you have to. To delude yourself in this business. You know an ear can go either way. Yeah. I do know and if you're too far gone in the delusion, you don't know when it's over and I think it pride the same for you don't know if, like sometimes you you're how well you're doing I find that I'm a little better than one or more good. I can say likewise good or their at some too like you, do a take and they're like die. We got it and you're right, they did if they saw something I'm not gonna write ride on it,
yeah? I don't know, though, like I, just this Coen brothers movie that about a visitor scruggs. You haven't seen me: I want to see it, but it's not on your actually is, as I think that these wonderful, I love it, but they're, my god they're the greatest, though the greatest fear, but there is like there too two scenes that on the day I was super unhappy with, and one I think I am turn out really good and the other one, I think, is not my strongest work, unlike No on the day on both of them, I felt like I walked away like I pool, it isn't? At that moment there were you. You know you have to trust the direct on some level. I mean you, will you do when it's like? They call brothers right, but there is that moment where warrior like, if you felt disconnected or whatever the fuck it was that
if you'll good about you're, going to see it again for sure, and then you just sort in that, then the problem with that is, if you can't let it go, and people come up to go hey. That was really great you. I wasn't. I wasn't quite I know. Well, you know especially in the theater you do that like to the entire degree bs, are doing it every single night, you're doing the same thing every single night for months on end and like you start to really feel like that, you start to feel like there's a massive difference between your good knights and your bad nigeria, and actually the differences like millimeter, and some of it can be just your relationship with the audience totally yeah on a night where, like the theater, is really cold and like they react differently, more sunday? Matinee one is only half a house yep or friday when their drunk of believe me The comic I know about that to the second show thing: oh it's so rough because you can hear
before you go on so fuckin lately. So before every night before I go on still doing a play, I stand links and listened to your noise. The audience is, you can tell ya, know what they're gonna blow yeah you can, then, no doubt if you do he spend enough of your life on stage and you just if there, if it's sorta like that, I like no worst- and sometimes it can be like that guy's going to be a problem that one guy, that's exactly right. That's exactly right god. I just know you're up against a diminished attention span, a ha and just right shatter, what's the best knight as a standard comic thursday, that's the best man, the theatre near Thursday night through the best knights, nothing. sundays sunday is good if you happen to be working on sunday, just if you want to fucking and work near works it out, but I found at saturday's. First show that are oddly the worst, because I think everyone's landed in their life they've had a day at home and I their what
expectations are why their energies weird, but it's always would have like you know we're. You know we only get out once a week great, and you know how am I not going to disappoint them, wednesday, matinees and friday? saturday night taking the worst nights in a theater, some people say tuesday, nights views the first night back from the day off, Now in your mind, when you were doing theater, where you like this one of them be going to be one of these theater people, at the beginning. I just wanted to work. You know and like people ask me they must do this to two people. Ask me like journalists will be like How did you like plan out your career like legal glory the key to have one yeah for real and- so like I'm also lake it could have gone the other way so easily. In terms of what work I got my eye for racy w show every abc family show. I just didn't get those jobs,
It's weird. I would imagine that in your twenties you were somebody who could play a teenager yeah, and you pray one out? Oh I for that year. I did you. Did you get those sometimes, but, like always like a teenager problem If you traveled team, I just never got the like you know, I don't I don't know like I. I could not pretend to be a different person than I was right. That are kind of thing. Like You can't fool the world about your, like essential essence rate like yeah. I think that's, I think. That's probably true of a you know. Eventually, they'll come out well as a as being on the other side of the table like having I've written for, plays and had them produced and when you're sitting on the casting aside and someone comes in, you can smell it like sometimes, like
I don't even bother auditioning you're, not you're, not the right animal like the wrong animal came in the room and and it's just the wrong animal for the part and not your fault, and you can be the best actor in the world and it can still be wrong. Interesting and that's sort of like helped me start to. You know, be a little kinder to myself after it didn't go well on something novelist to change your expectations? Yeah, I dunno there was something like americana show on a b c b s or something that I went in fort Lee, twenty three and the casting director like I walked in the room. She was like, oh honey. This is your part, hassling I drove all the way out to burbank. You know, and lake learned many pages of lions or whatever, how you guys do it like a weird life. because I was always stand up in any time. I'd go in a year by year, but which is sitting outside and of the room like this ain't for me by gay, took full, like I had a art, would. However, I landed in my body
I know my wheelhouse. Do you know what I mean like? I got just got a little part in the movie and it's in Boston, and I rode, through the I told my manager them like. If they Boston accent, it'll be ridiculous. So, let's, let's get that out of the way I can't do this, I'm not going to sit there like pat Why is not going to happen? I mean I odd way. If you- just point me in a city long enough I'll talk like whoever I'm around, but I couldn't manufacture it in added right now I don't care and I'm like perfect great and I'll do it. So I can just be me yup great yeah. I got a gun better at that I also just like would go. I just slake. No, I just treated everything like it was checked cause I think a little bit like there is this What is it illegal? Yeah? I don't know. I don't know what that means or explain that to say I mean like, like I took surely seriously like there is this sick com called Kath and Kim. There is an australian to them and they were going to make an american version of it and they were like. The breakdown was like she's just
gus staying. She like it like fat and slot, in all this stuff, like that was the breakdown and oh okay. So I like put on like clothes that didn't fit and like like didn't, wear makeup when I walked in it, was like twenty girls, all wearing cute blue jeans and a cute top and like wearing a lot of makeup. When I was like right, quick actually and then they selma Blair, okay you're just misunderstood undertook to again like I'll. Never forget I auditioned for this horror movie. It was about a girl being eaten from the inside out by a demon and like it describes her face like peeling off and like they they my feedback from my callback was: can she come in wearing a cute top and more okay, ok, okay, always misunderstanding,
handle the appealing back in it gives you I said, I'm not coming back and if that's more feedback, which I didn't do very, but I was really mad at them. I was really mad that, like you put that working I put a lot of lead, demonic, possession work yeah and they didn't care. They didn't care. They just wanted to see my tits. Oh no. That's the way it goes in horror movies. It seems like you've transcended that. Well, that's nice! Now! when you say you wrote you've written, plays you've written for plays over the years now. Did you work in a collective of any kind? Were you part of a playwright's group or anything or you just? Did them no I started my first play when I was at school in my amp and a playwriting class with this writer called Donald margulies, great playwright, and I started this play in that ass and then, when I was in that flick first couple years in new york, and I was like drinking too much and sleeping with too many people, I thought. Okay,
when'd. Destroy myself. If I just sit around waiting for acting like I'll just become like a monster and so I started picked up at play again and I finished it and I gave to my agent and a legitimate agent. Me represent me and that play ended up being produced Humana to all the harm in order. Gold was called absalom and then I've written through more play since I've had them all produced, which was a mixed bag by it alone. Ton, so you can get them all at french's like in that little little books yeah. Can you can get them on the little books? That's exciting! It is exciting. It's kind of one of the nice parts of as an actor. You know, there's a little book you'd like to see your name on one of those nice yeah yeah. That person isn't that the name of the publishing companies at french's, samuel french, is one of them minor, dps, dramatic, publishing,
Is there something wrong? I never belong to a collective. It was it's just something: I've done to try to keep my brain alive and it seems He found most your success, fortunately, Probably in retrospect in film I mean, if you tried for all these t v shows that this standard kind of, like three camera, that you know joke ease or whatever they are yeah and like I. I think that that can somehow be sort of limiting and and again he might have dodged a bullet by being a recurring on a eight year sick totally. I mean total totally I will say that, like it seems like now, all bets are off in terms of like career. actor. I knew no winners of knowing how it's gonna go, or would I mean in terms of what a show mean were what you know people can do
web series in it launches them like right, agora, there's, really graze, there's something more democratic about what's happening out the murat happening ten years ago, and also like here and also its so fragmented that your great shows can beyond that no one's ever heard of totally. That's that downside of the democratization as like you know what sat on you know, yeah I dunno what you're talking about that was genius with. I don't have enough time. I don't I don't I don't watch nearly enough of what is out there, but that's okay, nice! It's like I've, seen like in the olive kittredge. That was great, you know and you get to work with her yeah, what yeah she's a like. Just like she something her friends, the best friend if, like so like she's, so in it yeah He had every. I met her briefly and she was so nice to me. But it's? U is sort of like I. Well, you should I'm like wow. That's enough! That's good That's our exciting! That yeah, I I mean it's sort of my hero, I mean more,
sort of and on he s getting work with her on that was kind of like a career who's your hero in the sense of of how she handles herself as an actress or lake. An acting hero, a hike I don't like the word idol but like that, yeah yeah yeah I mean there are so many women of her generation and just older, then her that I admire and look up to like Jane fonda, and you know and sally field, and all all these that you know a incredible generation of actresses as his basic, and I just talked to her. He did hear. Oh, how is that great she's, so great, so very generous, nice kind, nea thoughtful person that kind is a life, a private life, and does these amazing work? You know she's, amazing, yeah, yeah, profound and but but fran also, like seems like, like totally one of a,
in policy person be exactly and she's from the theater scene, yeah yeah. She is, work with her husband with that combat his movie yeah, well with how it out of those guys direct well. No, but I mean like what's a relationship with the actor you I didn't have a lot of contact with them before we shot, I edition for them twice. For that part- and I didn't get a whole lot of information during those auditions, except that they laugh when they like something, and so I had a little tiny bit of that kind of feed and a little bit of guidance and they've been working with the same cast and crew. I mean the same crew for like
thirty years for the most part, and so every person that your meeting every collaborator sort of his like meeting a part of their brain, so lake, my work with mary, so freeze, the costume designer, gave me as much information as they did problem. personally and then they're very he do assuming and relaxed. They definitely hear things in a really precise way like their hearing. Music of their film in their head, more specifically in precisely in it's in the writing very specifically, and precisely if you ever read one of their scripts, there In the way you see the movie like with camera angles, and you can really see the movie on the page and and they also give you the storyboards boards, sites in the morning, can see like what other colleagues are towards yeah exactly So there's a ton of information there that unspoken, precise, yeah, magna much
We go room. There's will ruin proof that's why the and they love character actors. yeah. It's not nice. It's great nelson to see the movie. I'm like it's weird because I did you see, hail caesar Why, though, but that was just like one of the greatest coen brothers movies and everyone was sort of like nah, I'm like no watch it again. Watch it again sometimes when people are consistently great and also their consistently great in a different way. Every time right, right watch him twice. I feel it people, don't always lake appreciate it because they take it for granted or something or the area where they miss it. Like you that you took me years to ruin process the bigger bows key ray
I ain't even like something like burn after reading, like I had to watch at twice, you know and pay is so good and so good he's so good he's he when he, when he really wants to act, I mean he can really do it like getting to him a character having a great time Where you were this headphone vs. I recall all their movies. Before I went off to make it you are a, but I also if that's fun, and I know, of course it is, I'm not judging. It know what I'm saying it's like. I did it, because, yes, it's studious, but all so like. When am I ever going to get to being a khan brothers movie again so might as well watch them all before I go do it, so I can really take it in like really appreciate it, and I do think that even though they're all different, there is a way that they sort of orchestrating yeah. Well, this one's very tonally tricky, like every chapter of it, has a slightly different tone, and so I think part of my feeling was like I want to like watching
bunch of their movies, so I can get a sense of like the range of tone, certainly figure out where I live, how great her work paid off. I guess I got a while. Are you done? You beat, you done a lot of movies and small part you like really kind of like so all we got. more attention in movies. I guess so. I guess that's the way it works right. I think so, And like trying to remember it's complicated. I know that I I saw it, but you got some attention. Were you the daughter yeah? It was one of the daughters right yeah and you you sort of got a little attention for that movie. Was that the first time or one was the first time I saw my first like bigger part in a movie, I did a pardon rebel, snare, erode the sam Andy's movie. Recently I was with the arctic happier and kate wins. Let It was was that the michael, shannon yeah I just saw him last night. He did some walking down the sunset. Pull on the way the comedy Store- and I pulled out of my one down like Michael Shan and he's a word more mary
like. Oh, what's up cause he's been on the show, I'm going to do comedy and then he came up like I didn't even ask him, but he's a nice guy he's intense he's very nice guy, he's kind of an amazing actor. I so like what I'm trying to remember. Where were you, you were a daughter and that now I played I played his secretary that he has an affair with korea right right, and that was like a big part and a lake, a big job You know the kind of tony movie yeah and I was scared. atlas! I was so frightened. yeah and I was a leonardo really kind to me. Yeah yeah. Well, that's sweet yeah. He was really kind to me. I was really really green and really scared, but again I loved that part. Yeah she's, a kind of fool you know she's always fun to play
like kind of like come shelley winters and a place in the sun or something alright, someone a little fragile right db and a little bit doesn't know what they're getting into yeah, exactly yeah and and and the richard richard yates, who wrote the book doesn't have a lot of compassion for her. I think on the page, and so I was like trying to a little compassion to her yeah so that that was furtive lake. The first thing that that, let me You know get into more rooms and be seen for more different things, and then I dunno, I dunno what the next leg turning point would be, but I wrote, I wrote a movie that Paul and I made together and called ruby sparks, and that was at that dayton faris, who directed on little miss sunshine, directed that and that was sort of like a
a new chapter for me in terms of being the writer airing into a different and also taking charge of my career in a different way like being like I'm going to be a creator exactly yeah. No, it's a good move and I think everyone that you are certainly a lot of people to listen to this show and the the nerd. Comedy world in general. The big sick was, it was a big movie yeah for you. I was like you know, that's like a like a starring role, all the way through, and he did a lot of independent movies, but there is a lotta juice around that movie yeah. said we had a it was different, it's so true, and you know I know Emily. I nuke, I know Camille, but I know Emily. You know for, and it was sort of interesting to see her fictional eyes, but I thought I thought you were great aunt for you're, not you weren't emily be doing that far, but I didn't tide of do Emily. Right now course. Not! did. You have fun on that movie. I loved doing that, and it was really great.
right. I had done a lot of independent film and, like you know, to be totally honest. A lot of I like you, never know how they're going to turn out rightly were always a crap shoe writer always like taking a gamble like sometimes they work out I'll send them their work out less well, but they rarely lake hit vain. The way that movie deadlier like people saw The movie amazon got behind it like critics, day and that Never really happened to me before, like I'd been involved in things that were successful, but it felt it hit a little late cause. I guess the moment and Uruguay are independent. Films in general are are all underdogs in a way yeah that you know if one surfaces, for whatever reason it's it's usually like we did it. You know yeah yeah yeah, so bored I wanna say is like you can never tell onset like something's gonna go rare, but we had a really good time. Making that movie and- and I like walking away
making it. I was like I well if this movie doesn't go anywhere. That was still really great. Like I started. A really great, I'm like show alter, runs as set in a row. the great way slake really relaxed. He seems really happy about everything like like a lot of positive reinforcement. He would sale You can do it again if you want to, but I thought that was pretty great, unlike something about the way that he said it would make me like. Move on, whereas in our lab elect give me one more rights. Experience yeah, it was good. So let's talk about this new movie, Paul Dana you and Paul Dana this movie yeah, we did, I watched it, you did I liked it. Huh he looked at is a beautiful looking movie, it's a nice way. He acted and written movie I question after watching that movie in terms of, well how many movies are made and why people make movies. Why did you choose that material, so Paul fell in love with it. The ball fell in love with the book, which is a book by richard ford. Called wildlife
and he brought me and was like do think that this would make a good movie, and I saw much of him in it and human looking for something to direct yeah, I was like AL adoption. It will hire writer and then he's sort of like dreamt on it for awhile and was like. I wanna, take a stab at writing it and he wrote a draft and gave it to me, and I thought it was really bad and I was, made a lot of notes and we got about five major into the scraps of me. Giving him knows. We have been talking for an hour and we don't really fight. Often we are your leg fighting. I was finally like yo. I think this will be better for our relationship. Just like. Let me rewrite you because it'll be faster. I can Show you what I mean rather than telling you, and so I did and then we just started
trading drafts back and forth, so it started really like with him like his attraction to the material and which I think comes from like a really personal place. I think it speaks like to some personal experiences he's had haha and and then for me. It lake started as a puzzle. For me, like the book is really I think the book is a challenge in terms of adaptation. It's really interior like there isn't. A lot is of internal expand yet because, if you are actually to sort of tell the story of the movie be like that's a movie yeah, so There was a lot of you in the direction and in the acting to create that a bigger space and something that is that interior, that's exactly right! Lake. I think it was like trying to make room for that space like mom heap, saying let the space between the lines is as important as the lions and your movie, and so it was. a puzzle for me and that was really fun and I'd never adopted anything before. But then, as I
If on it, I started to feel like really compelled by the character of jeanette and they carry mulligan place, really felt lake, thereby for there but for the grace of god go. I like she live, in a time where her choices really contrived like an she. She doesn't have a lot of room to express herself or find out who she is, and so she starts making the only choices she can make, and I was just super super compelled by that, we either. I thought that was you know. Obviously the the centerpiece of the kind of emotional flux of the movie was her performance in that character. so like I I found cause you know you're moving through this saying and the cast is great jake gyllenhaal, yep and who's the kid he was good. His name is ed oxon bold. I thought
very good, because you could you know he. You know he held his his. Oh, not his emotion but like he was completely like he held there, oh out in he- was sort of a blank slate that you're reading Indeed in quite know, but it you felt there was a lot going on and we felt that we. So he was the last we saw I just liked, wholly follow with these austrian and he sent an attack from austria- and we just fell in love with him in mostly for that exactly that quality that year, talking about like he's making a lot of choices is not a lot going on, but it's all under the surface area and bill camp is These guys, are you now see everywhere taught by its weird, because I never knew who the fuck he was told you know the reach beyond movie the iron. These areas, knight of the enemy, and now it's like he's in everything I know she's, been in the nearest either seen for a long time and lake is god of the new york theater scene, yeah and Paul had done
and love and mercy with him said: Paul's dad and love and mercy. Oh yeah yeah, so you know when we started casting it. Paul was like. I really think bill would be right for this, and but you're right he's like had one of these, like you know, second act career, real character, actor yeah yeah, but like sort of. I just saw the the way it was written like it was very good. cause he there is that space in the dialogue and specially fur fur for carries part. You know like when she starts to come unglued, you know it's it's both moving and and scary and completely and pathetic. I'm glad you got it. Cuz, it's one thousand nine hundred and sixty. I need kind of realize the constraints, but, like you, don't jake like I don't know, it was also subtle, but yet, like there's a turn at some point where you're like this is cause he
in these kind of movies like it because of the space you guys, characters, montana re, yeah and, like you know, he shot the shit out of montana. I mean it was like Terrence malick stuff last night, like just the space were great ugh our see as our dp in making that was gray, but you kind of waiting for some major to happen any realise at its happening, but really an emotional thing, yeah You know even when she drives them out there to look at that. Look. I don't think I'm spoiling anything just to look at fire. You like what the fuck, yeah like years ago it was mommy nuts or his mommy. Just like that. Having grown up born in nineteen, sixty three and having a mother, who are other aspirations who did not get to realize herself and probably the way she wanted that that sort of This trigger, where you is she being selfish, you absolutely, but Is it neglect of the kid on some level? I guess
but that was just the time. Man and Is there a little more resilient than you think they are yeah and then, when you know whatever happens with jake after it ends it's it's disturbing. but it's not it nothing breaks yeah That's exactly what we're aiming for. The idea like that a family can break apart without without people breaking right and in, but you know you you're watching. You know carry in your like how god I have a problem with the way it's described on Wikipedia, maybe should what is it described ass? It says the plot in nineteen sixty avoid watches his parents. Urge fall apart after the three of them move to montana, and his mother falls in love with another man yeah. That is not that's, not what happens now now, but I, but the first paragraph of the book says something not just in war from that, and I wonder whether there just lifting it from the book why
I understand that as a plotline, the only problem with it is the falls in love webpart, I agree, and and and- and I thought that was kind of genius, like the guys did a lot or or Paul did or I dunno how was written with the camera. Where you see the kids, seeing something, but you if you're going to see it yeah You know, and and yet there was one point- you didn't, but you can your own assumptions and then there was at the point where you did, and it was not quite as horrifying as it could be yeah, you know because you're like a boy was that take him when he peers into the house. as then was just like no have you ever been. Have you ever spent like extended time in an editing room? but yeah. I really love it. That's where it all happens that I learned so much so we we like helped produce this movie and we both took the year off to edit the
film. So even though Paul's the director, I was there all the time, and I learned fuck ton and honestly away The writing process happened all over again, which possible. We worked on this for three years. It's impossible that there is that much work still to do and there was and that was one of the things of like how long do you hold on this thing. How long is too long like it's a slow paced movie like but like, is the pace too slow and then also like building performance like obviously it's all of these leg genius actor right. They are also responsible for top firmly crafting.
for each howling and yet you're the people that when you do an independent movie and walk away from it, going like not to know what that's gonna do you're the guys doing. Yeah it's it's fast and it made me feel like I've. Gotta should have been format. It seemed ass if the best job, because if you have the footage, you really have like a whole other world. Do you have a whole new thing to explore? Yeah it's like. Do you Britain books like when you're writing prose like suddenly all that there's no like ten play like me, you know when you're writing of the IRA skype there's a tumbler, and it's really felt like that. Like I can make anything yeah we don't have to. He doesn't have to do that yeah. We can take that part out altogether completely or we can start it in a completely different way. We, you know there, there are infinite numbers of movies. You can make out of this footage. Well, I thought the the the hey you guys build. It is pretty great. You know I because cuz there's something about some as beautiful as Montana is in the way that was all shot. There's a menace to the isolation
that functions right. Alongside of the beauty you're saying all the right things You know that the space it's there just because if, like you, have these humans, ruminating or living in the world within themselves, and that you know when it comes out, he and is that you ear sort of like it's so sparse that, like I e a matter so much right gas, but I I thought it was, as I thought was great and before I knew it's a book I guess my my producer said it was a book and a mic could not stan why they would just pull this story out of nowhere. It seems so bizarre. There would sit down and write this and he's like it's a book, I'm like oh, okay, okay, yeah! That would be bizarre. If that was like the story that we had exactly yeah, okay, okay, I get it now and you guys did- I did pretty early on that you weren't gonna act and be out immediately.
that was never on the table partially because, honestly one when we first started writing it, we were like twenties. when twenty eight leah and- and we were just two young and we were thinking about actors who are really more like the age of our parents, as we were still thinking of them as the parents era and by time, we were really going to make the movie ehrlich o like there. There are age basically like these characters. Yes right, I mean you know, I think I think that there's some about the mystery of your parents, which speaks to everyone like true that's true. His parents are a mystery to them. The line that I quote away from from Michael Clayton is when Sydney pollux azure people were, can and comprehensible yeah yeah, and like I really well, we ve had that we ve had some like critical response like even
We had very whoop. Critics have been very kind to this film and even within that context, we ve had reviews her said o this unsympathetic woman, unsympathetic character, and I feel like you're lying to yourself about how people are. If you think that good people don't behave this way like people, people go through shit like I, especially that generation that young they were kids completely. I think about all the time my grandmother was twenty two twenty one when she had made her first kid, my mom was twenty two. If I had had a child, a twenty one, that child would be so messed up right now like, he's very together. Now you have well and also lake the alcoholism and in there's a whole thing in that genuine overplay that either know well that that would have colored the story. It was weird when you know there was couple of like amazing choices like in that scene. I don't want to spoil anything but
You know when jake's character does what he does in anger, that you know in bill calves character that that the fact that he was with at the woman who worked at the place. It was like us just this is just like you know. This is People pick so glad you picked up on that you know we don't have a close up shot of of her know she's in a wide, and it was like a little detail around like the. I guess, we'll see whether people one. This could have been any woman. I mean you have the the the moment where you're like oh, is he married and then you're like? No, it's the fucking like what's the skies motivation is like he's been in a lot of pain. camps of this wonderful thing in a q and a about that character. He plays the like really like loesch character, and he was who's been through the war and he's got like a limp and someone every about like. What's this guy's motivation, he was like he's been in a lot pain for a really long time, and he wants to have pleasure, like he's just seeking pleasure
It's so good, it's true and it's like I never would have thought of it, and it's right there on the page. It's not like he's. I mean it's a good example of character. Backstory like he didn't invent. That is right there that good, that's the core of it, that sort of as an actor like what what is what is it? The word. I want the motivation yet that I wrote together and it was really hard acting together. I don't. It was really fun. You know, we've acted together, but x, Paul and I we met doing a play together and we did this movie called meek's cutoff. Together we did the movie that I wrote together and really hard acting together and I don't think we'll do it again. But writing together was really nice. and you did a great job thanks nice talking to you nice talking to you, the movie is wildlife. That was. is an accord with all day now and it's inflamed until activators. Now alright bigot
boomer lives. and the one
Transcript generated on 2022-07-17.