« Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Edward Norton

2019-10-28

Edward Norton (Fight Club, American History X, Birdman, Grand Budapest Hotel) is an American actor and filmmaker. Edward sits down with the Armchair Expert to discuss his new film Motherless Brooklyn, his relationship to privacy and his thoughts on storytelling. Edward talks about how he always felt on the outside of cool and Dax wonders if Edward seeks control. The two discuss iconic vs. shapeshifting actors and they tell the sad origin story of how they met. 

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Welcome! Welcome to arm chair expert, joined by Monica Pad Man and Dax Shepard and action birds at the helm. Today we have a very exciting guest, a buddy of mine, Edward Norton. He is a golden a winner, a three times Academy, award, nominated actor and filmmaker he's been in american history. Ex fight club man, the Grand Budapest Hotel, Moonrise King, why even go on so many wonderful things I believe. First, real movie I'm a very was nominated form is top five. best actors, a labourer yeah absolutely, and he has a new movie motherless Brooklyn that comes out November. First, please check it out. We sought we loved it. He's fantastic and you'll, hear a fun
story about how we had a misfire anyway, to talk about the fact that a good Enjoy Edward Norton, we are supported by stamps dot com Monica. Why would you bother yourself? I'm going down to the post office when stamped out brings the post office right to you, you could be in bed monarch, I love being and bad. You could do everything from bed, you can use your. Can you'd have to print official. U S postage twenty four, seven for any letter, any package any class, a male anywhere. You want to send one sure, males, ready, just handed to your mail carrier or drop it Box. It's that simple that How were sending out all of our merge now was What time you get: zero dollars and five cents off every first class stamp and up to forty percent off priority mail, not to mention it's a fraction of the cost of those expensive postage meters. It is no wonder. Seven hundred thousand small businesses or to use stamps dot com
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where does it? You know this is interesting dynamic for me because we're friends I know of What about you in your, family, private and am- and I know you know a lot about you, but- private should not right away. I probably I probably got some assets that haven't been deployed here. I won a trend and like the time we met- which I wonder, if you remember one thousand presented on the flip side, I was a fan before we met, but then this all started happening and then I think I wrote you it's like them Herr Club for men adds where they say: I'm not just the president. I am also a member. I know I'm sort of like you not also a fan. I shouldn't have this, but I do- and at least I own it is, I have to admit people of high status. Giving me complements feels extra good added a few different times. You ve been a lot of window my sales because you came to the hit run premier and the Euro
Very generous ungracious and said so publicly about it. That was in credit. flattering Lateral came at each For me that was wandering India. When I find out you assume the show it still kind of hard for me to compute. There's almost to people in need. There is the guy, I know so, there's you who I know, and then there is. Norton, a movie star, who I love and is a thing in net. between shall meet almost gee? I believe you have that with different people. Definitely, I am for sure, and I think that the interesting thing is that some people integration of those things goes down smooth and maybe even enhances, like you know, Bruce Springsteen, who I grew in literally route. Ninety five court, nor yet came up on meant an enormous amount to me, like more than I can ever really say. Like many people feel rain, but on meeting him he not only does not disappoint
but the man, the person you get to know somehow is so doesn't diminish your ability. Tat have the same experience with the work yeah in his case, there's so much that's authentic about who he is flowing opinion to the work that there is not a disconnect height whereas, like I got to know Bobby weirdly, who also for me was He saved my life kind of people. You know what I mean. You feel like at a certain point in your life, if comes through the airwaves and you're feeling less than in with the cool kids, or are you filled out or alone and he comes in and goes every sir- the where one, where it yeah you're gonna, find your way into your tribe, eventually and sage, You know it kind of your emotional life in a way, but he was a man who created characters right right and a shape shifter or like the poorest
these yeah, he was a magician or like or the illusion of sums are now known right, goddamn. He and he would sit with you as like a fellow artist. and just say: oh yeah, David Jones, Can you Edward? It was calculated was crowd. Here is a good start. We was I'm. That was a thing I put on a date for well that came out of this. He was so opening the acknowledgement of what he borrowed from what he what he put together as a past I loved that, because very few people ever will be like a Springsteen will take their own life and turn it into the work that becomes everybody's
Anthem right. Most of us are Devlin cobbling together, cobbling together ray we admire rain, want to be in it's impossible, not to project a romance onto the ones who feel like it like eyes is up and out of them year this authentic thing. It was really me for the meat bump into someone mired that much, who said I'm afraid yeah who say no man, Nano man, that's it's all good, yet you can be in fact sort of square. You, you can feel square and still do the thing create the thing he said to me when I was maybe like twenty six twenty seven years old, He said we want em, you like you know, there's the icons and the tricksters and he's like you. You can be it or you can make it either way it can be and I felt this enormous sense of relief raw about yeah, because in a way taking Spirilla go, I don't have to be anybody myself, yeah. It doesn't have to be about me what
it is the more you talk to people and the more you get to know people euros. We all are suffering from some level of impostor syndrome. Right we're like will evolve He never waking up in a position that were like a. How did I get here. Do a deserved to be here is a big scam. Is american beef revealed in licence taken away? I just the time for me that without a little bit of a breakthrough like that was similar to you who looked at Dustin Hoffman in that encouraging to usually oh here's a guy who's, not like a star whose gorgeous whose movies here's a going! What are you saying, I'm saying you're on your own? Well, you got this guy's just average. looking. Maybe I can do this. I similarly did that would Nicholas cage and then I remember reading an interview with him or he was talking about it was not until face off when he saw Travolta could do in impersonation of him that he was like wait. I can be,
mimicked, I must a specific enough in unique enough for someone to do an impression on me and people will know that's it. But at that point I was unwilling to mean that amazes me about him closely watching his career, because by way paws on the cage, because people don't rank him, the significance of what he did you know are silly little craft via Paypal will talk. deservedly all your data lay low again the post, Brando generation of Deniro and often Merrill's treatment, and then like the Daniel Day, Louis Denzil, Washington, champagne, all of it Nick cage for us all God Nick cage do. a thing that is very rare. I think you could point to very few people. In the modern era who did something original? entirely original. Has an actor age was like what I'm going for, like I'm gonna go operates sir realizing bow. Yet I'm an eminent I'm gonna do a thing that so heightened and
raising Arizona of a lot of movies? I watched more, the not only because of the film makers but because, when Holly Hunter punched him in the face- and he did that that mean lean, take the into the camera or when he gets inner. You know he turns jangling goes well at all equally, I am an unpredictable Europe, Asia, Europe, but you don't know about you, but you you realize, like everybody, was looking at that and gone. What is that its Yemen to boil it's like he has done. His own thing is rendered upon. Rock is very ray and very very bold, he's gettin at the essence of a thing that than anyone playing straight yeah could get. And I bet if we were his age or contemporaries, we'd have been like, probably just triggered by His bravery, unbelief and himself and then started shooting on, but I was young and I was like
what's good or bad. I know that this is the most entertaining guy. I could watch more and more. What I realize is it: the culture at large has a very conservative impulse, sometimes we're all collectively more conservative, then We think we are- and I think, a lot of times there's this unconscious tightening up when a thing comes along and you realize did in red to respect what you really admire, our people, who just taking big fucking, Wings. Yea swings big risky swings that are often not understood full, ii, the allowed even hit the mark of origin or they destabilize people enough. They can't celebrate it right away if fifty percent of people aren't made uncomfortable by it, it probably won't stick term right land without setting out little are little primate group thing more. It's like we! We all know to toe the line and to step out into potentially be shunned by the group. Has such life or death consequence.
For us for so long that I think when we see someone do something that were like who this could potentially have the result of X united. We immediately like panic, like, I think, there's some kind of primitive panic of like or this person like a kicked out of the group. It's too out there. The funny thing is is We remember Nirvana, I remember reading it. thing with Neil Young Amelia said. I heard that record and when in my garage and cried and played guitar, hearted Then I've played in a long time to try to recapture the at the level of energy coming off that, and I remember thinking always be like Neil Young yeah, ever have the chance. Never never try to put the lid on what people coming after you are doing, grab them and haul them.
but our are you getting, I'm I'm getting to an age where I'm having to police myself almost daily. Now it's just happening. It's natural I've gotten to becoming a grumpy old man s, I guess in ways that, like I'm judgmental of the things I ve, no, I recognise their their sensationalize, so I will react, but you know they'll be studies about millennials they're, not fucking or they. You know, if the red, job in their bosses and invite them to dinner five times a week. They feel betrayed and make what you know that all these things are you're the anxiety level and all this I will old meaning go like let's get a little in tougher and then I go now this whole. thing: is this never ending evolving thing, and this is where it's going, whether you like it or not, get on with it, but man I got a more and more daily pull my self out of a knee jerk reaction of like I was this
world sustainable with this type of victim hood narrative. Yet I wonder if you have the same sensation know that when kids come into your equation in you're dealing with really small kids that injects more of an impulse toward compassion, but also sort of I want any Stan this because you want more resilient kids, re right, Brian and what you're saying is like what's going on here, that's creating some change, eighty that within it is like a lack of resilience right yeah, but it's funny conniving does connect, because I remember thinking I merou being twenty two and reading like a screen, writer that we all revered William Goldman Right, some say that was very put downy about the girl yeah or beyond it sort of layers, resort alike, where's, the greatest generation that I was part of now where's, the movies of sixty seven. Seventy five, I dont see em sort of remember going, I if I released
movies of ninety nine. I challenge you to name a better year. No, I mean like are yet any kind of like hey man like what what's the deal, but what I remember feeling was that a lot of what was flowing off a baby boomers generation was a what's with all the negative anybody? What's with the? What's, whatever never mind mean we were the, we fought them, the war we advocate for civil rights and the unequal right arm, everything will wait. Wait. Hold on. You grew up in the fifties. You didn't grow up on television. My need grow up with the information flow. That we have about the global pressures yeah. So let's say we have ten x the intensity of information flow. If we were ten x I get paralyzed thinking about what it must be like to be a teenager world, where the intensity of additives around you here, so severe. Oh yeah, the peer pressure. level. We can't even really
apprehend bullying mechanisms of the motor unthinkable thing in high schools that you'd hook up with a girl on the girl would tell people you at a small dick and then you could at least plot a deny that now a girl will show a picture of your piece. You centre toes and induce stupor. Granted you'd have been sending that pick out and I think I did know most of us. I've had met it off and I don't even if we knew each other, and I think I got one of the world- the comes your high school yeah, it's pretty, but I, but I'm saying, is we have to grant that within these things there are root causes. These kids are dealing with. we did not have to deal. That's the did. The bitter angel, my natures will say relating it your by themselves. So whatever this thing is, I'm I'm I'm I'm frustrated with in them is a generational character, which is too broad I get
but now we re more stuff about oh yeah. We did. We started parenting, different him, Haiti's kids, don't have free time their exploring, they don't have. They didn't have all the kind of things you I had some kind of Tommy and Self assured in is that we gain through building afford all this crap and dangerous step, so that was law Julie, denied helicopter, Hunting in not allowing them to develop coping mechanisms I grant it, so I am in complete passionate sigh, but is the devil have to work through and in that field a new chapter in my life, and I think that's just age. You know yeah. The prom is too though, in a weird way, like you think about it, like even the era when you were workin out, your dysfunctions ring you ve always been a particularly resilient guy. You ve always believed in your own potency and you're lucky that way, yeah, I think the as yet I don't know if you hated high school. You know what I mean like a couple of years: yeah, I hated him, but then I found my way by eleventh and twelve great you
go make some really funny. As you just said it. You just pointed out the bean used on television, which was physically, when you are promoting fight club. That was the aspect of it. You liked to focus on like that was the thing that you I feel like you related to in you connected to inform me, the breakthrough line and in fight club was we. Or a generation of men raised by women. The last thing we need is another woman, and I heard that as a boy raised by a single mother which again was a pandemic thing in the eighties- and I was like that's part of why I crave this male tribal acceptance in approval and all that, like I've, been oh, no shit, yeah, guess I'm kind of responding to having been raised by a woman, but you had both parents. So the thing I was also very relevant profound for you was that aspect of being raised with television and all this stuff. Yet in this is injured
in that the same movie, you could walk away with too well. The very best things have room in em for everyone to take them in through their own prism, yeah and find something right. So, like I mean we all get sent Phd disk stations on the homosexual. The lines in fight club divinity student things on the christian shower aspect of it. I literally have gotten stuff on how fight club is Nietzsche. Zarathustra it's about going into nihilism and coming back up and out in itself recognised by about and they're all right, yeah right. I think the best things give you you know Joseph Campbell not to get to academic Like the thing I really always think about in out of his lectures, you know in and the books to some degree, but those PBS Series talks with both moilers, where he talks about that myth, but stories they
function, less well, if their opaque and we watched them passively. They function powerfully if their transparent and see through the story and see this is really about me. It's about there's a narrator and its Tyler Durden? But it's not it's really about Dac shepherd and Myra. In relation to my mom, you know me, then you go holy shit. This is for me. The address is- and I and he says it's more transparent if it describes a world. the person looks around them and sees so. He makes the point one: those things that the young Navajo India in listening to the now home mythology that included the sacred mountain to the north, which he could see said. Yes, I will right in that disorienting. These things I have to absorb them because I live,
within them literally and it lets say the further people's life experience gets in its detail from the detail of a text. The less active, aided now it gets a story right. Maybe my issues with the Bible. Absolute, I have no connection. That says that the whole judeo Christian construct of stories gets more and more difficult to access the further people get from a world in which they recognise themselves in it right and by the way that that's what a great rabbi or priest does is help. You see it is transparent again, but he gets harder and harder right. Yo Yo, like if people see a fight club or anything else, and see themselves in it. They go wow. This is about me is about us. It becomes your document now when I was trying to communicate the people about money this Brooklyn and wanting to make it you know Youtube ask your line out like it. Oh yeah,
you know I shop and I get to meet Robert Evans, the flowers I went on the producer, where's movie, I made, walked me over to his office on it. I'm out loud because tell me what is about and remember. If you can Tell me in one law. If you tell me three lines, its ahead of, you can tell me unwanted blockbuster, you not, I mean ruled out, and I was like well about or a rabbi in a priest who are best friends and they both fall in love with the same girly goes not to block most of which I was not in a group, movie. I forgot about Thou one known for a new director yeah. So I tried I tried to I kind of would say to people so it this is like a big period. You know, epic about. Like you know what happened in New York, but all told through a terrific detective with OECD people literally like their eyes cross and there like data there like they're, like their life,
well, you know we're in the word Norton Business generally on this line of this one. You know you're like walking backwards to the door as you're describing what I, Finally, as I refined it, I started saying forest gum, rain man, will hunt a year as much as China, town or Confidential Right, because sometimes people look genre and they go through a very M will do I am I into that- are not running right. But to me, what is really a truism is there are sir, films what their functioning the hook is. Actually opting for an underdog run out and what you're saying goodwill Hunting Brain Man forest gum, these kind of movies. With you meet someone who's got an affliction and you route for them is not Mary of on because of India? You feel better about yourself, yeah, yeah and number one you identified, because whether you're a simpleton or a working class
genius, you're, none of those things, but you go. I know what it feels like to be underestimated and then you go You go anywhere that character wants to go. I think. Actually, like you, don't really remember. The plot of forests gum it's a much more politically to the moon he then people remember ah, but you just kind of you go watching this guy navigate world was with him. There is any about force, governments like yes, it does that thing where we all feel misunderstood right, but then there movie in particular the reason it made a billion or whatever the fuck it made is. I can work and I can be kind there's a road map to six ass, even if you don't have a one sixty iq. So it's almost like a triple wishful film in in a weird way. It's like you misunderstood, but but but through the the I'd actions and stuff. I can control, I can still become it. It's it says: Lake Debt, goodness transparency,
important yeah and by the way, that's what I mean you forget, movies written by aircraft? Who is like one of the great it tends to get reduced to it is like a Box of John Lennon weren't, I'm not a smart man, but I know what love is right here, which is the worst Was it worth Tom Hanks impersonation ever buy you forget that he's horribly abused by people. She raped by her father. Yoyo gets AIDS dies it's about how America aid itself and did not treat. Each other. Well, though, the movie is about the country dissolving into unkindness, while he stays kind and yet no enemy ass. He is my river line, is a sorry for in your black Panther Party, ok, we fear rise.
We knew we were going to solve a lot of things. We evolve knew that we haven't even got things we love, but despite probably what your desires will be. We're gonna walk through your life, a little bit ass, one in your highness man oh yeah you and assert their eggs. I remember in detail in our own all my own bad shirt and where, where where did we actually meet, we were in a vehicle yea. I picked you, when I was dating Kate weep Do you and shown up from a very small airfield in Moscow in Somewhere area, Ontario Counter and We all! I can tell you verbatim what was said in the car. I got very triggered, I'm just What sick? As you know, I carry run a lot a bag, and so people don't think I'm smart I said at one point I was driving you in the back seat with China. I got a bit the deal ire. And you were in the black sea in you. Go you mean a die wire. Do it yourself I merely was like who the fuck is this this
ice thinks he's so smart meter point yeah. I guess I got really. I was like omit will first, I you know immediately Meyer use so that and then the other factors Monica full time jobs cry he might the many things Ellie Erectly emits a full time job. You mean you're, like a joke when a dyslexic me to know, like wasn't even commentary that was pure compulsion like up with this looks. It means a nosey. That's and then we saw we saw Bear CUB in the road We are driving and I stopped and you were saying the mothers gonna beat the left or right the month of the mothers always around, like you start going into some bear knowledge, and I was like I was on the verge of going there a baby bear and let's just enjoy baby, we become look up further mom like it's a baby bear. Let me again, let me on all my own baggage are already being someone that I feel less than around. Quite often enough
someone has arrived is even higher than that in the end They pointed out that I didn't say something quickly, so I'm in a pretty pretty big less than tailspin at this point nl we gone into this ball. You put yourself in a whole John, and I talked about it later because you were for, I want to add the color in the you and shown our friendly? They in fact what I had said go here. We know hanging out with you, like all my my friend axis. So great and I got a funny as people and you again. You you guys, will get on like crazy he's. Actually, a prime metalogy like up like tat- and I was like, new, be fast. My way I was like are you kidding above and- and I was I was very excited like into, and I also didn't write by accident time. How all these things are? You flew a plane. You have your own when she was lighted acts as a machine guy. Rushing guy, you're gonna kick out on these things, and I was all I was all label with like new
our friend, because I never in that we were on a dark party which was really fun and then Kenny Jean landed in a plane called a beaver. The stainless steel fifth is point phasing in the. Hopefully you guys back to the your airfield right now, The more memories of no all, only I was sort of waiting. The multinational early dad you don't know my my superior experience was its and this just shows you like they who you are because I went through so much of my life feeling isolated, not hated by just unseen. You know what I mean more literally, the kid driving around in the Ford Escort trying to find the party based on the flow of cars You know what I mean. Can you tell me where the party here we re where they all gang and you and I never ever felt in- will any many tribe any clique? Any anything
so I'm like I'm driving around alone. Listen the Smiths us yet and spring scene in the clash and go and going I get out of here, like I gotta get to anywhere where someone is like come on, come play with us right, the or who even like the same thing that link, but in my head, because when when we met you got set up to me as literally like this, this person's you, like all the things, I'm like great, and then I started acting really alpha, and yet no one- and I the hut again, I as I went to allow I have I have not rated-
like I just I just have not raided the note, no boating, no voting. I'm not gonna learn to write a motorcycle. This like that and so on, and I am I would not like I am I going to do. We both did here, but I was sort of light, will be bikini deal. Take me flying it's, not what I was hoping. It's not the whole closely and I was looking for but I'll take it. You know stay to arm chair there. We are supported by Brook linen I'm getting excited just thinking about it. It's a blisters day here, in LOS angeles- and I would love the slide into some ice. Cold Colebrook, o nutrients swim around in those luxurious hotel, quality sheets best part. Is these ones an arm and a leg, because its direct consumer there
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again. I just I felt stupid around you. It's all my baggage and then Leap or to couple years in a new, and I one time Christine at your apartment, New York and then I come into town and I join her and then I go, I'm gonna go get as coffee. Does anyone want to Starbucks in you I'll, come in then about five minutes into this walk with you I go, he was. talking down to me. He just a very smart guy and he likes to talk very in depth and he wasn't condescending to me. He just this, what he likes had nothing with me and then I fell in love with you on that want to get Starbucks. Second, remember the whole exchange inside and going in so we went on this lovely walk in and we walked all around and then from that day on I've loved you and I checked my baggage at the door. So we all we got there for air get but have begun. It was all my stuff, a feeling like embarrassed in front of
hey that I now was stupid. On top of Vienna, a low already fell, I always anywhere. Yes, that's what I said. I was already feeling very less than I am but also I mean you're, leaving out one thing, which is you you and Christian, pretty much got fixed by Sean right. Yes, a thousand percent. So, yes shown invited us to her birthday little dinner. at some restaurant in then we met there and then we bumped into each other like a week or two later at this hockey game and then yet we ve not not taught by we I mean I either most beautiful things culminates in. We are met at a vague and restaurant sage here about seven years ago to go out to lunch. and we had brought an ultrasound pitcher of Lincoln and hid it somehow in you guys had brought an ultra sound image of atlas in we were both somehow trying to surprise. I shall add babies in it,
the same fucking don't know, and I and I think what really funny is my recollection is we both had the same impulse to hide it in her men. You turn the menu and go. What am I think? Maybe we did it first, we were like you know. We were thinking of having this and your fan base at that moment when I went Are you saying that around hours are easy was carried out? Will you really creative north surreal of language homeland they're? Doing the exact same thing were now also they then you know when you realise we got a couple of friends who were on the ride in sync, it's a good feeling, but I think also, I remember being way out in Malibu getting home from a tiring day at about four and being told that you can flip around in five cuz, we got to go and I was like to wear and it's to the staples like I'm, not driving the staple centre at four o clock in the afternoon for Malibu I'd
We are why? Because Kristen Index made this any movie Discreet, and unlike this, Beyond the limits of friendship, I'm in my mind I'm like a million dollar movie, they say scraped together. I love a man. Now I got it, I mean I'm not going to two hours of traffic, more the yes, We are so I get there in a varied you, no negative frame of mind da. We watch hit and run my recollection was starting to squint and go way. A second no way is like a really good dialogue, really snappy and then the first car. You know the first like cars, and I can remember like we, in forward and going Martha after like? Why not how you know and you know, I think when you see people taking swings and finding a way to take, what's authentic to them and hid it out.
You know really do it and- and I am not exaggerating- you saw mothers Brooklyn. We, the movie, opens the car chase by the Wound North Harlem, in in the fifties right yeah, we were told a lot about what we could do and we couldn't do ya. Needless to say, you can shut these three blocks for this amount of time but we need twelve blogs. Yes, we need. We need depth and I want to hunt cars, and I want this figure out and there's the resources and there's the thing and at least four times I said to everybody. you go watch this fucking move called hit run, and you tell me that we can get this done. We can get this done like we can do it, we're gonna steal it we're gonna fake. It were and a figure it out, and I would say we did. You did great debt, firstly, I would like this: is fucking some of the shots in the car, the way you're connecting
everything like this, the mechanics, the logistics, that kind of stuff I get really distracted by an movies was I'm sure you do too, and they can really Take me out of if there's like a break aloft physiologically lies a visual logic and I was watching the full opening sequence of just the stakes building in it, for you killed it it's. It's fuckin awesome yeah I mean directing, as you know, is kind of, like you say something, that's absurd. You propose something. It's just fundamentally absurd! You're like we're going to do the 50S in New York at big scale. The whole film like a big american epic, like an l, a confidential, or I want to make a big thing about this country and this city, and it's going to have great card Citizens can be and we gotta do it for twenty six million. You know me, I regarded in New York yeah in New York in Modern Europe, and that is absurd, like that is completely absurd. But then you start to pile on people.
Who by UN, who are themselves insanely, talented right when the greatest teepees in the history of modern Cinema, Dick Pope, a genius production designer a genius about. I live in eggs, design producer, playthings com to charge an and suddenly this thing that can't be done is good in done by people who are so good and so turned on by the challenge that, instead of being mass hole in a way. You start to look like a visionary. You start you look like you know what you're doing, but you look like you know, you're doing because of the force multiplication of these other peoples. Talents. It's like flowers, daddy dump on you. You get them Libya to buy into this challenge, and you can see once they go like oh fuck. Can I get it done yet this once their fires lit now than when they make you believe in yourself and then yanking them start? It starts to snowballing look if I was marked course easy and I could get Netflix Gimme over two hundred million make a movie ya
Why not? You know why I showed it the other night like a roomful of oh geez, the eye but Warren baby. Afterward said to me like what Eighty million eighty days you know- and I would like- and I told him like twenty six and forty six and he went you're a lion. Second and I learned nowadays inevitable- has also just to pause because he's again like it is to me one of those things where someone at the peak of his and clatter on all of it. He went and made a movie it's three hours in fifteen minutes long, it's about a merry in socialists, and everybody said to him: you're gonna flush, everything you ve got. No one wants to see this movie and worn was like what is all this worth. If I don't take at least one swing, yeah very inspiring now the movie motherless Brooklyn the to meet them
We felt like a pretty poignant, relevant examination of gentrification, basically current gentrification, so the book expressively deal with gentrification, yet so the book jauntily forms but mothers Brooklyn. The book is entirely the hook that we were talking about earlier. It's the afflicted underdog, who you're just riding with him in I'd his head and outside. Is that it's about a terrific detective yeah with obsessive compulsive disorder who has to solve the murder of someone close to right, yeah, it is boss in has argued, underline very aware of how crucial. It is for a gum shoe to be able to present themselves as something rightly eyes, dazzlingly J right, either always posing as a journalist or of super of building whatever the fuck it is and inadequate the guy has two rats and can get through any
our action without raising some red flag now at hand could this be built. While the book, I hope is the heart of the film to is the book is from page one you're inside the head of this, so you can you know him intimately immediately then you watch this wild affliction that he's got a trip him up. in ways that are hilarious, Anne and very pain like and he's a legitimately he's icily, and lonely, and misunderstood and that's in his own way horribly, but he's also wrong. we bright there are things to do with his conduct. In that give him near effect, capacities of man Marie and all these things and the book honestly You hardly remember the plot. You just remember the intimacy being inside and outside this guy's head easy, we're way through the world that actually to me the more than anything. What I wanted for the film was that relationship with the guy. They hear your sword alike
on this guy's team, I'm on your side, everyone else's against him, Poland for him and what he did when every takes me through the fun it is watching hymns watching him try to be the type of detective. Bruce Willis really is yes, except when he gets with a blonde at the bar. It's gonna go Zack joyously badly it I'm not gonna, be smooth, and you know what I mean. I gotta say my fate aspect of. It was the touching on the shoulder alma God. Where Ramona can I left I kept touching her shoulder like that of finding your does at least opportune time and are rightly recognition that is like a tap and the like was Grey but it only way he does that when he feels a fag. Personally today I liked it. I didn't see the math on this and I am curious like what more What are are there that you let the audience? No, it's ok to laugh at this time, because I would
that's kind of a tightrope of the project. I think there's a couple things hopefully that work one is that when Bruce Willis turns the coroner income, down the street into a stake out, and you go that's the private I work that's nets. Obviously the body Tracy that that's the cool guy in the room when you see that Bruce Willis. Relies on him, loves him and teases him purposefully, yeah, rigorous in wines him up and they have a laugh over it together. That's kind of your mission, yet you know there's a zone where affectionately you're alive, to get a smile back to the delegation. They know, again what I like about? It was whether intentional or just that that's how it was. I found myself seem both sides of the argument. There is a big part of me, the conserved a mere something inside on our people gotta, ugly and break bones and eggs to get shit down. That's if we all try to be nice and death, it will never have anything. So am I
buying into this kind of who's gonna build the city, who's gonna, add the parks. Who's gonna, make it beautiful, whose EDA Frank that that's not gonna, get done with unanimous will buy everyone's, I'm on that side of it, and then I also recognise will you people are getting I should honour their neighborhood because they label that Islam and all this stuff, and obviously that's a very compelling bar India. It is what is currently happening in and allay and New York Brooklyn and all the voices- and it's like this, very compelling argument by the way. When do the right thing came out and eighty nine you get to the end that movie he puts up Malcolm's response any puts up. Martin Luther King response and it was like spike was like I'm lay in it in front of you and I'm telling you there's different ways to absorb this. I ain't gonna tell you enough camp and the balls of that and not answer questions but really to go. These are hard fucking questions of out. What weird
dealing with in living with each other- they are hard. There's rich in it all. There is hypocrisy to people say this. People say that here's what one of the great lights of african, African american spiritual leadership said about how you have to respond and hears. some one else said, did very antagonistic That idea- and here is a picture of m standing together and that the end of the movie ya go think about this, talk about it. You had over a coffee, that's like old movies, Mate king the conversation forcing the converse asian, right time, most intrigue by something that at best they'll be sixty percent in favour of that decision ran ass. The most intriguing like the black and white stuff to me is not all that compel known now. Nor is stuff that just goes I'm gonna pretend to be controversial, but in the end up in a make sure you know that everything's, ok, rang, then it's just like I cannot stirred
but I gave his annex iii, and so there the don't, have to make any decisions for yourself here, I think, movie, especially sort of a detective movie like if you dont have a character who can take you through it through the murk yeah? In my movie liked, I wanted to flip the smooth detective on his head in a funny way, but I also think to me it's like a guy who's, so mired in his own condition that he can't be heroic. Who has to step out and sees other people who are fighting despite it all China goes, I gotta get out of my own shit and find the bandwidth too wing bacchanalia our hero, luckily has no position in this thing. No, yet it's me her leg, the guitar does, it will arrive. I gotta saved the poor people. I gotta see the city, it's like. I gotta think this girl yeah. By the end realise she's fighting the good fight he's a enough.
american woman in the MID fifties, who everyone thinks his secretary she's, really lawyer, she's fight in the good fight, and if I want to sit next to her, I don't get to be passive. You know I don't get too not did yes, I yeah, I think, most of the things we actually like they put the hooks in as they have to do with movement movement of someone from one place to another that we kind go, that's what I oughta be trying for in some way. You know what I mean that that may be is a proxy for me. Instead of something it says, not just eat your Jabez right. Is these making your methods with your PA yet, and these people will come in and do everything for you? You know I m yeah. Ok, Now, let me ask you question: I'm wondering if
your desire in the past to remain largely private, what it was driven by well. In the very beginning there was a real tactical with primal fear. I argued dearest to the studio that any thing I freaked out when I saw the peace of the trailer that showed to my: u turn we all a number of argued like keep our powder, keep our punch like, don't give it up and it was sort of like, no one has any idea who I am and less interest. Why go on a talk show and blow apart the best thing you ve got going as we know it. Now we don't know, I don't know what his voice sounds. Like dont noted he's, not a stuttering. You know naive, who needs help now that's the whole mind fuck of the whole thing right yeah, so it was a tactical decision that I think was a very wise one
the second theorize I have got like three arm chair kind of theories on it. Well, I've been affected by certain people, their effect on me was enhanced by the bubble never being broken La Bob Dylan. I think when you watch that Scorsese you doc, not the new one which is incredible to but no direction I would see neither no direction homelike. Everybody should watch like once every couple years, if you're trying to be an artist, because you have this when a year old, guy, twenty years old with, can we phalanx of people in front of him saying the voice. Your generation and he goes out enough and I can relate to man, you know or or saying what's it about and he's going. I don't know what about. I just wrote it. What do you think it's about? You know and you can I watch Van Gogh. How does anybody at twenty years old have light? the control of their own ego enough to say this will do nothing but screw up what I'm trying to do.
Rene. Even if I wrote something I had no idea why it had the impact it would have. I would later ascribe in intention so that I could get the credit yet, but I mean what I would earnestly sitting here now. We ve talked more about a thing. I've worked on then then, like Dylan would ever said ever, in his whole career man's word, but I think that there are people that I think have enhanced the potency, What they do by not letting you yeah by not letting in a low, but there may be comes up Well, I don't know where you can't really in the mind world may be achieved that as much as it could in the past, because we're in each other's face is so much in everything and also there's just Wikipedia Nike, terribly hide everything right right now, ass, we get older. You get less precious, even think about the way. I I was just me, and by you know, paparazzi photograph
Chris deny, or maybe someone find that we are engaged or that people would know. We are presently all these things. I just were so crucial to me and I felt so violated by and now through time. I'm like were completely out loud, and I think I enjoy this more you do. You know where that there may be wisdom in that that I could absorb, because I there's two things to me for a long time that I felt comes but within not angry at all. I really thought there was a lesson in the primal fear thing, which is the less anyone's heard from me, the more can. I come out, I'm getting living It was also rooted in a second thing, which is, I think you have to be self aware, and I do think there are two very, very different types of actors. Who were shaped sifters and there's actors were very iconic, that's not about whose a good actor I think her support is a terrific actor reality. But he's very iconic you go to them because they do still a thing.
That we all want. You know what I mean I want it over and over and over again yeah yeah over and over again right in and Tom Cruise yeah can jump off a softening greet your tea the well and you can do yeah. This is right, my arm, chair theories is looking from the outside, which is you play aid, so many guys in readily convincingly. I mean, obviously most obviously in american history acts. Were your just this fucking big indomitable tornado and You, unlike me, about almost the opposite relationship acting, which is I'm just trying to figure out how to do what I can do at a party on screen I'm trying to ignore, like I know, I'm good at a party. I gotta get more that onto screen. I'm not taking big scary leaps like you too can even as someone who has been in a bunch of fights like I have I still billet. Could I pull off that character in America, history x? I dont know that I could not do There's some of it, for you is you. Your own magic trick in your head, which is like for me.
By into that, I can be that guy. I don't really want to see myself on Leno and letting you in on the fact that I'm really not like that guy at all. Exactly that and that's tricky, that whole thing is tricky cause it's very hard tourists. Just the machinery that asks and need you to support the business. now, I felt ages, invest don't mind. What's really weird is even some of to me the people who, I would say it like you, take a Daniel day, Louis Right, whose one of the great shape shifting performers yeah already high of all time of all time and who to me functions like the warrior monk, ideal, he'd gone into the cave and you ve enough. Dear what he's doing or who yearning he dissolves from the mind and then he arrives and you take it full stop.
oh, no dilution. There will be blood. I can't remember him before and can't see anything else here, and it is just so lambs you into the back you see, then I scribe all this integrity to him, because he doesn't seem then want to be acknowledged or celebrated for it. Thereafter, in these public appearances on chosen one not so, then I feel there is a plan that internationally, the knee doesn't even need all the validation he's so deserves this guy is, as you say, like a fuckin monk warrior jet, I something so that kind of builds into us and I think all you know everybody admires discipline when they can see it ray. I like in any form, just work ethic discipline resistant to the things we know, willpower pull on our own ego right and I'm in you watch your own ego. Pull you into. Yes, is uneasy. Someone else resistance
wow. I have two questions for you. One is a. I think you have this incredible integration in what I would. While the iconic it thing, you're saying, why can't do it? I tried to do what I do in a party not doing shaving, but I think that you have very and have always, I think, literally, like kind of since punked? I think you to me. I've always had much more iconic presents for me. men and women which is like guys want to be like you, women think it would be really fun to hang out with you and that's a thing. You know that is thing that Super Clara. I dont guys like me all that much will continue. I told you this guy is only disagree because big, because you do a motorcycle. Like a pro, you know what you're talking about on sophisticated subjects
you sometimes no? No you gotta get another have. Maybe me about this know is, I think, like Legion like you'll, have SAM Harrison you'll have your Hollywood pals, but you have SAM Harrison, Esther Peril, crushed me. I mean I mean my allotted buddy boy, you're you're, doing the same thing you ve been and in the work which is you ve, been integrating the totality of you in two things and people are like. I am site to be with him because I do think. Actually, a lot of men aspire to achieving what I call a very I minded straddle of the things that are like old, cool male. Ah, but with conscious ness right and sensitive idiom self him and to end yet exactly not some life a lot. The question I have for you is so, for instance, you blur the face.
says on York on there on your right here right away. I support, I can't even go there. I would never to meet if that family and private is just like sacrosanct. Inertia like it's like they're, not participating, Miss, I dont want to impose it near. They have chosen to be at work and I do find lake. You know you, you take what comes with it. If you make the grown up decision to be in the public eye, but when it comes to, especially, I think, kids people in their private lives. I think the notion that you can assert a space around you, no matter who you are to me, is that, like that's that taken our culture way down into a place on the anybody would want to be yeah, feel bothered by the incivility of people do in the bull shit where there in the restaurant and they pretend they're taking a selfie, but you It's like. I always want to say to people like publicly everybody's.
He's what you're doing here treating other person like an animal? Now it's unkind its rude it the way you were raise, yeah like stop it. I have low points and of at high points I'll admit to a low point Chris and I were late for a fly, all this shit was going on sunfish. Maybe she left her licence at home. You know this chaos at the fucking key ask for Reno Hour Flight out of Alex and at a certain point I turned, and the woman that was just filming us. Her camera was six inches from my face at a height of me like having an anxiety attack about making this flight and I snapped in said, I'm not a fucking, animal and you're, not at the zoo, and then amazing, I literally I praise- has come in I praise exactly, and I were locked away. I felt bad because woman? I scared the woman, and then it just so happens that that this woman was on our flight. She walked
by us in she put a piece of paper on the arm rest of my seat and then went into coach and I read it in she wrote like army- are humiliated, I'm not that person, I'm so sorry. I then felt fucking terrible he got up and walked and found her in her see, and then I apologize I'm like. I should never talk to you this way right in so my experiences with a snap in confronting those things is generally, I walk away feeling shitty like I, I could be better. Then, globally. I have to admit to myself. I compare it to the traffic and ally, which is I've lived here for twenty five years, I'm getting irritated still every time I crosstown to Belarus to go to my a meaning and at work, point on the ride. I was like that, two variables in this equation: Dax, there's you and allay traffic which one's going to change I changed allay traffic. No, so our people going to fill
what's all the time. Yes, my ever gonna approach, control over that knows oh aspirations early, I aspire to be like Seinfeld who, in that episode with Galifron, accuses like yeah you're getting filmed and then what? And now it's over now you keep moving yeah. I really want to become that. Were I knowledge, I'm the one that has to change or I have to get facial surgery, stop doing. When I love to do tat, we don't know but well, I think it's extremely admin. one high minded. I think that that true in mind, you went on with it kids, it changes and I'll go backwards, three out gambit by, but nothing goes down well once you're into the the rangers yeah there s no way your new year ear, the fact that you did that we and by the way my gut go, she deserved What have we wish you did, but but your point was a human appeal
would have been better than an angry slap right, yeah yeah and she might have responded the same way and whatever, but she went high and yet and then you went high and that's all great. The point is like everybody, I try to go higher and be unhappy more home. In my my like reptilian response dissipates, I recognize this is a purse and you got excited in may stop thank you- therefore allow open there in their reptilian I gotta somehow captured. This is exciting things like can say all levels or rude. I do think it. Ultimately, I wouldn't do it, but hey stay to arm chair, diffused air. We are supported by forcing matic guys. I've got a big big uptake Monica has tried shrewd shrew NASA kind D want it, but I did tried these firms ed. I'm hooked forcing magic
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looking point of sale for all kinds of business, online stores in full service payroll and there payments are still the best in the business, there's no long term contracts, and you always get you. Money fast. That's how I want my money Monica super fast. I want mine to come in hot. see all the way square can take your business from square one to whatever's. Next, at squared outcomes, lash go slashed, acts. Now really quick too, that the living not wild thing here is an example of something I you you could really relate to. So I dont show my kids on social media largely for their safety. but we're get Turkey for me. Is this thing this this show I talk about them and then I keep having this conversation. My words like What is certain agent and stop talking about I'm because somehow their friends maybe will hear what I'm saying about them. Are some oil entered their sphere and I'll have to stop then, and I keep going well when is that point what ages that point? And then I thought, if I
I could go back in time and listen to my dad had a radio show, and I discovered that my fucking dead couldn't go fifteen minutes without talking about me that I was on his mind that much I feel like would really love that ensued. This decision was like I'm protecting their privacy, yet I'm not being truthful, which is, I think about them. Every ten minutes, yeah, but everything you say somehow well it touches on their heads and that cost me in so then I'm on that side of the argument and then another they'll be on the other side. The arrogant and I dont Know- and it's this isn't a counter argument, but knowing you and you guys like, if you did none of that the quotient, they know in much deeper way. That's true, you're, devotional commitment, madam, is because you're a great dad and a devoted dad they is everything like they don't need. That is interesting. The idea of the looking back or whatever I there's a part of me that hopes in a way that all are kids or are so into their own lives and why
fantasies like they're they're, not that interested in the things we ve known. You might know, they'll never was so. I see I starlight there, but I let me ask you this way. It's almost like Hemingway's stories about soldiers coming back, World WAR one and he has this one thing about the guy. sharing some of his experiences with someone else at the bar. Feeling immediately sick inside he collateralized, the deepest thing that had ever happen to write off some of it. To me, It is also that it's a of like two things, lose their deep mean. And when shared you, don't yes, not might like to see. First still get something nets. hers in hers alone and unique yeah from me so this one Monica? Don't you and you have? Is there a category that, for you is like it hold more weight to me? If I know it's mine
needs it needs no affirmation. It's just me. The big ingredient allotted that we're leaving this conversation is something unavoidable. Witches I had a life threatening illness, and I got a treatment through this programme. Right and so that the whole premises, everyone comes together under a seemingly veil of anonymity and They share their journey wrong. She is shittiest. Scumbag is most depraved thoughts, actions, everything and then I've just watch the magic of people owning that thing and how healing that is and how helpful it is that everyone all sitting there that no longer feels alone in those thoughts in those behaviors in those actions and so Just in my unique case. The thing that saved my life was hearing other people on the fact that this thing is a fuck, beating this getting through his life and in being accountable the people and not many people down a being selfish, and only that you know that stuff to me.
Even in the neck, and even in that community, though there is the principle of privacy like there is. and what you hear hear stays rare I've just identified me personally? That shame is one of the biggest things that leads to some bring in my life and the antidote to shame in my experience has been someone else. I am also a piece of shit that really helps me, so I think, have three in its obviously compounded by social median, curated life's and all the stuff, or only seen as version of people. I think it's only getting moors it if you like, I need to say oh yeah, so people are no are married. That's a raven My only option is at that point to go along with the fantasy or publicly say: hey we're in couples therapy we have been since we met and it's a fucking beating half the time like, I feel risk ability to counteract this thing than I am control reaches people know us and we're together and that's how it is. So. I will Thirdly, feel like this mainly way to claw back some honesty of that story. That that's being told, I would feel frauds. To not be honest about
you know I'm sayin- you know that it's and by weight it very admirable. The idea that you offer your own life too, of the high minded pursuit of letting people see them selves raw, letting people see themselves in you, guys people not feeling, as alone Emily, but I would like to own something publicly and admit which is something of a hinted at in, and I think about often which, as I have a very outward proclamation of honesty, I also condemn it. I must leave you. talk about shit, I've conquered I'm hesitant to tell you how I'm currently a scumbag currently a scumbag daily, and I'm not super. company. I am bag, well, what I The call now in my life I rushed out as it would look as I have. I have thought or question when you say Monica concerned or mine and brings it up when you watch when you why from the outset, weird you where it is Your concern said that there are
a barrier because I dont actually think this is a celebrity problem in that I'm gonna get you at all. I think a great. What's your concern, I was concerned when we started this that ok, if I start really on, as nobody knows me ever so if this is the platform for which I'm me me and I'm single, so I was thinking of it in a very specific way. If I meet someone, if I choose the sharing and security with someone it by. taking something from them that other people We also know it like strangers. No, it like to me I'm like that, should be something sort of sacred and people should get pieces of. You build your own these measures are in pieces and they should then and that's the relationship is like you know things about me that only You know, and the idea that, like actually everybody knows that, so it's it's not I don't know I struggle with that and then they definitely are live that life to an extra
I mean, there's deafening things in your wife that no cure, but are the thread still there that are like yours only here but like do you being part of all the yeah and being so close with these guys do, watch it and go now. This is a line of concern for me, like I think this is, as you know, he had the boundary yeah. Well, she Edison shows that she's regularly taking stuff out. Then I say to protect me yet and then I also do work with her so closely. It's the same thing with whenever there is a protection there, but I mean, I guess we'll be Honestly, nothing's ever happened. That's made me think, like you, I know, that they shouldn't have said that are. I was worried about that and look at this happened like there's, never been any report cushions for being sort of. living out loud so
electronic or hold everyone into the whole family had ring warmer whatever we have, what we needed more huge, but worms- and I was like I don't know that that some everyone needed to know. I thought. Well, you know I do I'm not cite people know that We had to take a dream, to get rid of our fucking pin worms that were discussed. You know I'm thanks for telling the whole world, but not something you came of rugs, seem good boy worm cream. We really should we learned yeah, So I think that it can sound awfully in the bubble, but I actually dont think its does it. This is not to me in the slightest a celebrity You public art is what are we gonna call it living out loud, because the whole world is becoming, I think, concerning Lee obsessed with personal narrative through every form of social media
and when you look at it, I find myself concerned for my friends, but I do actually find myself sort of concern for whom energy, like the notion that we are living more and more of our lives. The narrative is cherry, picked to reflect a very man the narrow view of who we are, but in also will also in which, where is really obsessed with telling each other. Then our lives are important, as opposed to just doing anything which would be fine, maybe in concept step. Four, there's, really serious social consequences to the amount of time that you're looking your hand you're. Looking at your hand, I think the social cost of the hours people are spending, there's a lot of life to be lived hammer and when it comes in Dvr, when you start to imagine if you ve caught a glimpse of where this is headed, seen some of the latest right ups on oculist, like you start to go, you can envision a world where people are descending into even more synthetic.
visions and never coming out. Yes, I'm sure you listen, you ve all Harare on SAM Harris, the one great counterpoint that leaves made was saying was like why. like the notion that the future of humanity is living in a virtual reality and evolve said saying: We ve been living in a virtual reality from the beginning, we believe in a god and we think their steps. You taken, you earn points and you get to the next level. This is not a new concept, people living in their minds from imaginary state. In fact, most the time spent doing that in that was by no means made me more optimistic about it, but I was like oh it's helpful to at least acknowledge. We ve been doing this forever and will probably continue to, but two things, one. It cycles Baxter, Being old right, which is, I agree with you and I those things. I'm scared to I'm nervous. Also, it's happening so you want to be on the sidelines. Going everybody stop it's not going to happen, Aaron's going to sell their horse and buggy and buy a fucking mile t that's happening, or do you want to be a part of that
acknowledging that helps correct or remain. people if I can start by posing a ugly picture of me a failure or something that says. Oh I'm a piece of shit to is that help was that the solution and are now I look at this more as not the realisation of technology as much as the ultimate unavoidable conclusion of capitalism which is why we are now a product. We now have an ad are added. our social media page, the currents is the likes. Is this where it was all heading where we all become a product, were selling all the time real. Is it more thee avatar, bull conclusion of capitalism, mind you, I'm a capitalist and I don't want to get rid of it, but is, is it is much about the economic system were in where we of course had to become a product or selves yeah? I guess the question where realizing in the last couple years is that it has as much potential as a tool of our ultimate ends.
if, as it does in any measure our true liberation, it's very tough to imagine how people voluntarily break the addiction stead are designed in to these these platforms niggah for sure, but do you ever than zoom, even further out in a Nietzsche way, go and what were all monkeys on this planet trying to steal busy toward dead, does it matter if we fuck in writing a book or a second look at Vienna? Does it matter I mean you have to first go, there's some some greater cause. They you'd have to believe even to say that it once better than another me. All I can do is personally go. How do I feel after a day, looking at Instagram versus how do I feel about a day of writing a motorcycle or building something? I guess per
we feel better on the latter radio, yes, yes, yeah! So just gotta be a truth! For me: yeah you haven't, we ve been watching them, it's sort of called a guilty pleasured! I didn't know this network show altered carbon of using them. Ah, that's it. It's really good safe. I already like Blackmoor, it's like you, I'm watching on. It could end up like this for yeah. I am the end, its colored detective, no war. you gotta play. We were all easily meanly, pretty scared of it. I mean I don't run into someone who's not concerned about it. You be even me. Scared me of everyone's like this is the greatest life's, never been better, but there is so many it is of the anxiety rates, are much higher with the younger people say, Zelie were were unaware, The probably certainly don't have a solution inside sight, but I cumbrous me a tiny bit the wheat. We recognise there's an issue here and I will say it goes back to had an answer or class and the last day a class. My professor made this speech and she said: look man, you ve
Here for the shortest chunk of this experiment, I mean it you many over a hundred fifty thousand years we ve been in civilizations for ten thousand years, and I want you to look at suffering were on the right, factoring. So if you look at the overall longterm company, I in fact that we're on a trajectory- and it looks a little scary right now, but I do think its continued to get better better better. Now I don't think that's disputable in any way sure there's dips, there's bad pout spells, but we ve been ever approaching what these ideals we said, to have you know, but it requires you and I and everyone else absolutely, which honestly is why it's great ever show like this. I really mean it. I think it's like they ve gotta elect eat better written. They have do that. This sugar, in I fructose corn syrup, is gone away. People have to go, we're all getting obese down. It doesn't feel good. We gotta help each other. eat better. We all have ongoing moon problems here we got out each other. Think better too. I mean we do. I love that pod casts have
an end run around the media system and basically said hey. Look at this people love having long, actually nourishing talks with each other, and we don't need you to do it in any way, shape or form, you're no longer needed. Thank you very much. We're going to have those conversations with each other and a lot of people are going to tunein without your say, so it's a maze, yeah, amazingly the democratization of yeah, the info, that we also have to be aware that, like we're doing it through the exact same device that we also think is causing these problems out. Nobody. There have some you now and then try to get one Why should you you're funny out on one person or question what I Think I M drawn to your attracted to you about is is something I deeply relate to you about, and I think it's why getting film that you're permissions an issue. I think it's. Why wanting to be in charge of the voice that gets put out and making sure it's your voice. I think you and I are deeply attracted to control, I think, you're, a pilot, because you love control. Thank you
direct cause. You love control and I'm wondering view, isolated, where you think that stems from I mean you, there was a marine. Your dad was an environmental lawyer. You, your father, was worked in the Carter administration is a federal prosecutor, there's a man whose fucking and control of his being in the dimensions year you just as he would. He would offer up all of in control and audit all in the area, realms right. No, I mean my dad is a figure of inspiration in many ways. Control sometimes can also be waited with DE risking right. You can assume that people want control because it helps de risk things or help them manage
variable, whatever aid is they're trying to achieve better and they and they feel more secure within control Notional right yeah. I think one things that you would have to really know. My dad do know is that he's done all these incredibly accomplished things across his life, but two things that are really to me: Fashion Ambrose. He never defined his aspirations around money ever while always shows what was intellectually adventurous, and so actually contributed as his aspirations. While and when many of his peer group call it chased money. He did not later and he's had. Regrettably, I caught you intervene resist. It could have been one of the top corporate litigators in America, among other things easily, and he always
when, after the ideal of being contributed, which does no limit to my admiration for yeah, I also think that he'll say that you know he was a among other things. He studied russian history, you gotta masters and russian studies that Colombia before using the reins exhorted cited there. The only good idea of the Soviets was the five year plan, the idea that you check in and reboot and he changed his career in ways that you would call for a for someone using control. He flip the table up or pulled the cartridge out and put a new game in with regularity because he liked the challenge like climbing the helm of the beginning of the year. Yet starting of things the hard work of division part, but he changed careers, full, stop more times in his life. It would make people white knuckle with fear
The idea of many restart right, I think the thing of even within control, the idea of taking risk is, is really important. I'm not evading the question I think I can add. Certain point part of getting older and wiser is going well. If I want to exercise the many dimensions of storytelling, then I should just step up and do it right and then, like as an actor, be disciplined and work with the people who you don't want to All who you enjoy the surrender to their vision. Right also like for me like like, and maybe there are choices to work on things in the earlier part of my career. That today I think I would look at and go. I probably would say
we have that level of trust artistically, not an end in a way. Now, since I can make my own things, maybe I prefer to make my own things and if you wanna take shape them control them be the author of them but when our hundred, when you really comes along and says we will you re bird man by eight o clock to Morrow Morning, like that, it's the greatest feeling in the world to feel dropping through you that this is a huge swing with one of the people I admire most. In the world, as a filmmaker and two step inside him and service him yeah, if he goes, you know what I think it's gotta be black and you go. Let me put every I've got in the black and then he comes and goes. I was wrong. It needs to be white and lemme. Give you every thing. I've got to make it the other thing and you're just happy
What I imagine you thriving very well under someone who does inside now know it. Yet I am, Imagine if you in a position where you can start poking holes and stuff, and you start losing confidence that it gets a little scary yeah. But but you know, one of the things that happens in this click bait world that we live in is that people build these very reductive narratives of antagonism or comment you gotta, fill an organ tight around things that were the productive and righteous process of collaboration. Right so, like you know like fin, Tibet, fight club finches, the most control I was gonna, say arisen in Lord he's: pound for pound pound four pounds across all technical departments of the craft, one of the most out to people that I've. Or worked with you and that may well not because great for me, but people don't even realise that he's one of the best directors of fatigue Murphy, you'll ever work with you can apply, make up. I've pictures of
fixing the glass in my hand; ah ha when I fall through the cabin. You know not myself through the cabinet. What my favorite pictures is in so doing the blood on my face and putting the glass just where he wanted it might Wonderingly he'll give you a line. Reading, that's funny, here than the one you had in mind right, so we'd like soup did not just like whatever, but that doesn't mean that me or Brad or Andy Walker or Helena in the mix, lots times it was like, but wait a minute. Should this be a you know, it's like everybody was thrown into the mix. What people want to make it out to later of they they argue, we didn't fucking are Do we worked right? We were doing the work. It wasn't like me trying to assert myself. It was like we're doing that. this is the work when a director knows that you love and respect their work.
And then you are inside their process or them there's room for all kinds of passionate conversations, passionate conversations about the thing or not, go. Those are work, even as your friend as someone who was long, respecting your level of talent and staggering. I forgot a little bit. I watch bird We went sobered man and I was like yes. Why? this mother fucker. Do this more like. I was he's the greatest mother. Time made me forget. Oh right, is this walking good? It was like thrilling prisoners like it's not do it more I mean I understand you have a lot of pursuits in a lot of interesting. That makes you a better person and a better father, but also you know I want mine that you did this once a year. You would you like
one more. If there had been more frequency, I don't think so. I think you like him more Nike, fine, but maybe every two years can you do it? I don't know yeah. I mean them. Do drugs get better when overdue. On now, tolerance goes yeah. I didn't think I don't know you don't you want you want the like when it good is. It is just like minded at something you think about. Like I'm pacing, this out bird I mean so, is it happens? By is it? Is it coming you control? I would have made motherless Brooklyn sooner right. I could have gotten that cast together Ray. I read the script three or four years ago, if at least And I think like it's not like, always by design five one corner argument, I watched Jordan play over a thousand game. Must each one was thrilling measures, my counter argument, but continue I'm going I'm going to accept that
just sort of compared meteorite at an arm and a leg? Let people say that Second, I sort of thing dead. A little bit of distance within after I get a little worn out myself on the stick. If I see it to all certain. You know it's like us from wages, go oh um, I'm so excited to get a dose of yeah, I know so, and so because they don't do it. That much is re, like I'm only left
because what the opposite approach I am a man does have MAC saturation inside you can wash weaken three different television channels or hear me. Six are preserved with Hell. It's like a at at at at at at what you're trying to if you're, trying to get people to forget and go with a weird thing: he'll distance. It says this is different. I think, and also right. I just think, like you know, even sounding like this. It's like, I literally, do get a little bit of anxiety, someone here's this and then it's like the movie opens in, and you got a a guy with Tourette's syndrome sitting in the front of the car and having shown it to a bunch of people who had absolutely no idea what was coming. Man is. Is it like? Is it fun to watch if you were on Fallon the night before? What is it due to that? I hope
I don't think I dont think degree. I know I know that I am not, and this is a compelling way to do it at least we're gonna talk. Criteria well. I adore you. I'm really glad that we got past our car right now, apologize publicly fur, behave in the way? I am. I promise that I just that you really smart again and secure- and I love you- I thought you didn't think I was cool and knowing that you are on the outside and feel cool, and now your huge movie star that's cool like Daniel here that it not so crazy reconciliation. Your brain has to do. I dont know if I'll ever be immune to the way I fell like in high school, that that slightly on the outside of things I wish was more included in which show you. How greedy from the monkey mind
yes, sir, I because I love the work I do and I love the people I work with, and I've got. I am blessed beyond reason. In terms of getting to do a thing that I love doing with the people who are the best in the game right and yet the monkey brain CS around it. I see around me, you know all the time I think like I be so cool the sort of bee in that club of people who call each other. I Moriah you can't not look like the Cohen's right Everybody wants to be in that club bright, like everybody. Why you allow like? Oh you will I ever will I you know and honestly, like I've known, Wes Anderson Fur, we road. Each other fan letters early on when we are working. I knew he liked my work and he knew I liked his work, but it you know it took a while
and then I think that after and I would say it's probably one of the happiest promptly put me in one of the happiest places, because I always wanted to be in a repertory company. I wanted the inclusion yeah. Gang of people who get together regularly and put on a nothing even with you know, all the things you when a list on your cv that credit that you're successful or get actor, I just always felt like your own brain goes. The ass sure thing you but where's my gang. You know what he asked. Yes, yes, a hundred percent. You can just being something and be photographed. Well, the great actor and be handsome and be cast, is the quarterback of the football team in the night you kind of are. We have peers words like oh, I and I see a chasm between who they feel like in who they are publicly? I guess previous yeah everybody's got in securities. I dont trust people who don't admit that they do
like I've known Tony robins along time. Just by chance, I I read one of his books. Literally, we guy got out of college and I was what was really yeah like empowering he's, so capable he's got his things. He stuck his foot mouth he struggled with knowledge is multi, but I often wondered to someone like Tony feel: insecure, I wonder yeah. I wonder I think so I think so, but oh you're, doing, is trying to get an upper hand. The voice in your head. I just said it is in a meeting a couple months ago, prisons in Europe. I was about to go somewhere in Delta, hit her mouth on the corner of the island. In my first two thoughts were fuckin when is she gonna, look where she's going and then, this better, not be so bad that I have to go to the emergency room now, instead of go to my meaning, I've got us. Dep over those two terrible, selfish thoughts? The en route to oh, my god, are you? Ok, let me help you in any
concentrate on you and I have to be ok. Hate myself that my first two thoughts are fucking shitty unselfish, and I just I gotta- get many tools that can help me get to the transcendent thought, but it now gee. I'm gonna always have the selfish fucking. How does this affect me? That's the step, one for me right now. for me. It is simply that when you put a thing out that you ve put a lot into a piece of work out that you put a lot into the worked on hard that you're saying stuff you want to They with it's amazing, like I know in my higher brain, that the getting it done itself was what I was strange. But did me we're. So I made pretty much what I set out to make. I watch it that's the only sustaining feel. It says what I was trying to say. I'm proud of You know me I and literally it's like everything in me knows: what more could you want Kevin
when I was smarting over chips, gave me the very best thing ever. He goes and I'll say to you imagine we go back to Maryland and we find twelve year old, Edward and we say guess little guy, when you were up you're gonna fuckin direct of nineteen fifties, gangster picture, where the gum shoe bubble, Bluff We know what your next question is: it's not what did the critics yet or how much it and legates like. How did I end up getting to do that? Like that's the question whether you could, that a thirty year old not in the end, I would be the same response and I think the point is that the voices in the head that get going the impact of the culture, the new buddies immune to that, I'm not going anywhere. I like every single day, I'm doing an internal, meditation, aura, there's a there's, a voice. In my head going just like ignore that.
ignore that ignore that just it doesn't matter let it go anywhere. I love you motherless Brooklyn we saw yesterday we loved it. Please go out and check it out. As you pointed out don't get to see these movies anymore. It's really kind of cool, just sitting down at me like. I would spend a decade since they made a movie like this. Maybe lawyer, yeah, good luck, I'll check it out. Thank you because I love what you're doing here earlier. What will plot on we'll? Have you back most really getting your childhood now. My favorite part of the show the fact check with my soul maiden mama got bad men, so I guess we should tell everyone that we escape at today, oh yeah, we we were evacuated from the blessing. Must Philips yes, due to fire That was just on the other side of the ridge. It was encroaching quickly
so in campaigning for you was you guys just arrived to record yeah, but it's it is now or here in the attic, yeah maggot how back at home. We made it safely into knowledge, everyone! The crew made it safely and then I was wondering when I was driving hours driving really fast. All we were you did you pick up the bay? Well, I always drive fast oh, I didn't know that about you. Well, ok, ok, you drove media. I do I drive medium, Dr Medium, rare on the I'm driving above. Speed limits or you were we. I always have about the speed limit. What tat over what you're an embryo is Rihanna cellphone, seven, eighty Serbia in the little that little toy all alone, three has really taken me places. I just you know I was looking for you and I didn't see you. How could you have missed it? I dont know I was gonna steady, one fifteen one. Twenty the whole way Maybe you didn't see me because I was going so fast. Eighty seven
yeah, so if you and I left the same things that this basically, what happens you left before me? I let the fire I stuck around our kind of wanting to get into parallel low, but I want to fight fire. That's what you are doing like worrying rise in just getting on his back. What's he do he wants a log Omagh, I'm so sorry it allows. I tried to did your blog. Your computer robs everything again the circuit Board over the board, not working try to do what I learned about last unknown and pull back. My unwavering we're rich, like some kind of reclined, seems kind of screamed out of fear in the middle that's knees. It made an extra yeah yeah, even talking about ass, a man or no. It does so eighty seven.
I knew that you were trying to stick around and try to get a little bit caught on fire. Yes, wider, fantasy riding up the side of the Mountain Momo Motorcycle with fire extinguisher and then getting right on the front lines and saving like something I really wanted to be here. I now you know Why I told myself when I have these fantasies is that like people will basically be so proud of me, not clapping, sheer and maybe they're even hoist me on their shoulders. Like the crew, like at lunch, jail cell, right, my ran. What are you talking However, I would like it for saving everyone. If I saved a small, I own, I feel you wanna be on people shoulders like you'd, feel DOM Riad Briarwood get self conscious. I wanna do all that in your right soon, as I was on top of everyone shoulders be like this about angle for my know exactly and then or any be like, and I might fired on these points. oh sure, hers. Yes, so anyway, did you put the bill
Korea. Now as one hour I haven't, I won't because you have consented to me years energy today, we are talking about it. Now, you just oh man, you're fat boy, do yeah. I thought we were at the ranch right you in a minute. I decided to me no, we were here now we were aimed at the ranch this last week. You showed me and we talked about it. Oh, you know the circle back to my memory. I was trying to think of some key players of her childhood. I was even trying to think of some key players in my allay life. The other night now just Butkus, I came up complete, blank, while your memories, bad we're disguised as giving back, then I go. I was thinking who care sure I mean doing that, hurts about it, as I had for years, prided myself on my good memory annexes now, not something I can be proud of yeah. I think that lack lustre highest apply happened. Putting oak those brag
Well, that's my theory. When my feet of turn so ugly Asia brag about elegant in beautiful, they were even show them on chemical. tiny. I now so I was real cocky and then now and then a guardian than even the scales tran dead. Ok, so eighty says- going. Eighty seven, none of your wife. Well now I thought this is the time for me to go fast because a cop can't pull me over right now for one the cops are dealing with the fire. Yes You see the northbound fires like a hundred cop, yes and fire engine engines. Yes, I thought like well, they don't have the time to pull me over because there dealing with the fire, and my radiologists would just be like I gotta get out of it.
Fire? Yes and a real aero k, you re, go, go quickly. Now, if you re going faster, yeah goes vessels that red you God he was going to say. So I felt fine about it. Oh good, you should so we had. we ignore Non year wow. While why would a big fish? The baby s debates, I think, is the best accurate had on here? Can I say that then all agree to a just cause. I'm not even make myself remember, who has all been on Re Edward is the best act we have had on here. say, oh god, I'm just add, also can't remember ever head on and sorry, but he's so good? He is. Is these incredible particularly in bird man because Why does never seen him? Do anything like that com Hence the arrogance all that stuff. It was so good, he said, and everything and he brought up quickly, but we didn't really get to talk about it. His first movie called keeping the
with his first movie. They he directed call keeping the fate. I love, there's only one year, fave used to be forgotten, How'd it you ve forgotten alibi like I completely forgot about it, which will you I really am allow me to go through his. his film Ireland yeah? Yes, I did want to celebrate some some performance. I mean american history acts. Oh my god, one of them will we would give made today, which is a white supremacist, but then he is a black remain in jail jail cell me, and then he real as is the error of his ways and tries to get his brother out of the organization, but I am I found Well, I just wonder like a hero story with a white supremacist that fine His way arrived. Some people would really not like me, for I am like yes does, that what we want from all these white supremacist, you would do
The movie worked on a few levels. Were a tunnel white supremacist went cause they're like oh our stories on screen, but then do you think they got maybe they get turned. I was attached movie called burden for a minute, and it was a true story a guy in the clan who left the clan same gonna thing down south and I saving onward a lot, and I wasn't parenthood and I was like a distant want to go on a movie and say the inward, a bunch Tiree at work and joy, my god, I'm so surprised! Aria, yes near, I think plain monsters. turn good healing as an actor like you, of course, your drawn the though a monster that stay monsters, yup actors like to play violent villain. Yes, I do I defend the right to for people to make that movie. It was similar America's reaction that ultimately, of course there now you know
promoting racism right, but I just idea burden. It was made always made Michael burden. Oh, who is in it much crackers. Who is the drawers Whittaker within it? Oh that's exactly what happened your heckler, and that is when I had to officially pull out cuz they did. They got forest Whitaker and then it so that it was a go movie. And I was like I just I don't think I can do a really just like I work with Tiree every day. I want him see me in a movie saying that over an organ yeah down ass, nice, ok, anyways I was going any South America yesterday I exit bird man yeah. Would they make America streaks? I did I want to get into them. Move because resolve this juicy stuff about the director of that movie. You know like come Tony K. He now is ass names, Kay
yeah yeah he's english. I believe his aching unwell announcement. I allow Tony K. I guess at some point what the again this is alleges them a rumour I heard Tony K had the movie kind of seized from him by the studio and may re added it, and he got really bent out of shape, and I think he took up full page ads and like variety, there was a buy. It now has a big circus and I would have loved to have asked her about that. Well, we didn't get tear, we didn't get to cause it. There are too many things to talk about yeah and he so smart guess he's incredibly intelligent, and I wonder if the arm cherries were surprised by that. He- and I would say only surprise me that, because Edward is so private and you don't really get a sense of humor is at all other than him on screen being this chameleon yeah. I don't think I've ever seen him. I talk to me there. Nobody
rosewe is, and this is maybe one of the like the only long form and I'm sure there's some others, but long form interviews. Are you really get to like hear him and how he speaks and how he about the world. Its call is very coins is so smart, yeah he's Polly Mouth, which I dislike to this year Yeah yeah knows a lot about a lot of top yeah, while the subjects yeah and in Europe we eat hold the server. How you were so mean I am not. You know it's really funny, because it was. It was really profound to hear his side of it because in my mind he was just a condescending jerk who was pointing out. I was dyslexic and Then I would never again. I would never imagine that someone who had that high of status- yes, which I had aimed as mean very high stairs would give a flying fuck whether or not I was cordial. Yes am I owe you things, I'm an idiot and a dumb ass in these written me off. I did Cinema very long.
apology about. Five days later I kept thinking out. There are apis thinking like wow man, totally out to lunch. Sometimes I would never imagined he would want. My approval would want to connect with me and you gonna be out, but I won't say we I end up being mean to people cause, I'm trapped in my own and security. As you can see, we, everyone does yards, keep it to me and I realize more more, like I have a history, I guess of doing that, yeah. Well, I wouldn't it's very human to do the first. I would have given it Ninety one odds that he didn't even remember, meaning me in Canada. I mean literally, I was shocked to hear. Even numbered me remembered at TED at in he just as well as I do your both year. It's really say I'd, so so here's the two should feel confident that you know they're both on the telly
and they ve got money you can. Then they got hot girlfriends in there still feeling like that'll loser now. You know why, because everything you just said just now being on television, are having a hot girlfriend having money that doesn't give you. Confidence- I know, but that's the fantasy. I had body, but that is not now, but you had confidence other. Why is he and I had? There is the result of my life. I was too confident and then there's authorise work. Nah not speak, let those three! things are not little factors their lot. there really not even factors what you got you, let yourself useful I know, what's funny, as I know, you feel bad For he shot me, sell him in that story. You do I mean you, don't feel bad for me. Well, I didn't know now now I do know you don't be honours its ok, you don't wanna, know do I did well? No, I dont, but- It's fine! I knew it. No eight, the satellite
I feel bad for you, but you're the one that act, In a way, will you first first things first hand correctly, I know, but to me that, should that's not a big deal, you did something a little and correct obvious. You said something wrong: why are you said that which is fine? Who cares what you said? that wrong and he corrected it and so to me, that's a normal exchange, but you took that in and then you lashed, yeah cuz, I was like already nervous he's not going to like me, cuz I'm a low rent comedian, and then he corrects me- and I just confirmed I know exactly all my inferiority complex was just confirmed. I was looking for and I found it. while the real reason, I don't feel bad for you is because Europe is not real. You are smart. That's ok! To have that insecure
ready, but it's a woman's authority that our real well, I'm not dumb now, but do I mix of letters Did I get made partner when mixes up land owner not dislike six really so, I know, but here's the thing why you, because your dyslexic, you think that, like when you a mix up a letter, it's that like when you read my book the other day and you said little rise everywhere in the new and then I'll I'll lay kind of chuckled at that, and then you are, like you d, think, due care that I did organ, but you immediately credit that two dyslexia and I'm like- I just did that five minutes ago over. So it might be the Dyslexia, but it might just be you read that fasten you and you say De I. Why do do I like away a lot of peoples, do stuff like barrier any. You just have something to credit it too, and MILAN and a history of everyone dome about an exacting and so, but you,
or, as I can see so clearly is just that. Is this you in this pattern of that there's no reality to horribly exactly But you understand this is similar to me in the guise or you say that you can see that there is just so clearly. This is not our you out for you, but the point is you ve built a pattern that I know is completely false now, as I don't think you needed to appalling eyes, no, I definitely did now that I know I had a hand in making someone feel excluded in ignore. word I definitely at that. There would never be my intention. I, though I definitely need to fix that. Well, that idea cherubic, that's nice interview, I just mean you. Both were under some assumptionists, the wrong thing. I think he felt bad as well,
when I took some music, oh yeah, I've been thinking that till he said the perfecting. He said he ass, he be meets. A dislike. Ontario is a really sad story. It was, as I thought for sure it was gonna, be a funny story, my, but it was not so hard to be a purse. He is you make masses everywhere you go or I make masses everywhere. I go We know in the same way, I don't you I was against my policy. Is everyone can decide if they agree with that themselves, but I dont like when people say when you know some spiritual, gruesome. we blank- and I mean well Honan or there is a lot of variety on planet earth. So I shall be cautious with the we. That's all you said A forest Gump made a billion dollars, so the film had gross receipts of three hundred and thirty million two hundred and fifty two thousand one hundred and eighty two to mess.
in the? U S right, so I'm all I'm just for what am I worldwide now, when a bride, normally you don't say worldwide is normally I give numbers for worldwide in then you say you were talking about you, ass, probably whatever the sea is already on the Sandy yeah yeah yeah. I wonder what it made, internationally new worldwide six and seventy seven million ok yeah World six eighty, let's call six eighty six, eighty six billion, not close, but we could do I'll. Starling stood what's closer to a billion and not a building? Ok anyway, so you said that you watched Michael Jordan play over a thousand games and each one was throwing so how many games do. Thank you. played, ok, regular images and regular
Well, why? When we come playoffs do not ever you're, okay, okay, okay, no problem, I'm going to guess I'm going to guess! I think they play about seventy games in a year. So ten years he played, but maybe played for, like one thousand two hundred and thirty retired. For a few. I saw I'm gonna, say another nineteen sixty games out. Why give you a hint, he played fifteen seasons. we did ok. Well then, gonna, say it. That's about eighty eight games as easily as eight hundred so twelve hundred and thirty. Now he paid one thousand seventy two, oh wow, so I really works. Well, yeah, your clothes and that's assuming I never missed a game actually leading meaning to talk about is how hot his girlfriend
in the past have been machine, is so beautiful his why, on a rabbit and what a ten but Selma high it at the peak, they were long time. Lover yeah! Oh, why why? Why why that's all. There was really no facts all that is really the fauna of asylum, a hike to celebrate- firm and ok go back around if you celebration abrasion, isn't it what you ve known me for six years now, seven years, whatever fourteen year, fourteen years, you ve. You ve heard me reference Sama hike as being the high water mark for ten minutes time driver. Actually you haven't you ever anyway. I've never heard you say that cause you. This is my problem with the Europe No it's how my eye was they like in desperado, shit, how you know oh yeah, now sure piecing desperado. Look it up.
did you type in desperado, yeah are you see what's happening, yeah Monica? I could cut that had look at this I can cut that had often put face on there and no one and I proposed it, not one person would say like what oh, what did Monica do so was dating heard then, so some a hike is right. Now you call perfect tangier forever. That's been the standard, since ninety, seven or eight years, desperadoes you're happy for him that he got to be with her. I really am side note to the listener. Ten percent of this fact check was usable yeah. Alright, I love