I'm David, very uneasy, Linda, who ended up accidently marooned in America, and I want to grasp what makes this country tech. Now I arrived in America last year to start work on a new documentary that job came and went, and it was time to get back home, but I discovered I had a slight problem: good afternoon, everyone we are now a matter of hours, away from an unprecedented lockdown of our country. In order to combat an unprecedented virus that leave town shakes would have an unacceptable toll on new Zealanders. New Zealand had closed its borders to keep covert out to get back home. I'd have to secure a place in a managed isolation facility, and there was an easy every few weeks the be a lottery we're a few thousand slots are made available to get back home. The only trouble is about thirty thousand.

The key ways are trying to get those two thousand spots. In short, getting back she New Zealand is like the hunger games in the seventies. I keep losing the battle. Suave decided to stay, to make it my home, but that's my problem, because this isn't my home, I don't have a home. I dont have a social security number. I dont have a driver's license. I dont understand how football works. This all needs to change. I went to grasp what makes this country check and what makes it so grace, and so terrible and so wonderful, and mostly so, can using. I have a million things to learn, but I want to set out small. I want to learn about religion here in Amerika because around seventy, seemed of Americans call themselves christian and from what I can tell Christianity here has gotten pretty well american

ain't shies and a hundred different ways and truly embedded in the coach you here so sit down in their pew, open that Bible and turned to the bit about David. This is their religion episode, David. I have something a little less explosive as your first I mean all the things. I tried a navigation. You went right at it. I just figured if we start with the biggest potentially most controversial thing, we could pull We have a tackle yeah, then the rest of the show will be a walk in the park. First of I'm so excited to hear it.

You learn about all these weird things, because I do think in general. Many of us here don't really know how are these things were like they must involve. Probably sixty percent. I don't know what the high don't write. I don't know anything about fantasy football. I feel that when you live in a place and you're just used to everything around you and you don't know it is embarrassing to bring it out if you allow you Eddie like. Why do you not know about this thing, you're so stupid? He as I get to be completely stupid here, because I legitimately don't know much about this country is that it gives me an excuse to like figure these things out. Yes, you got like a dungeon. Pass. I got a Dum dum. I can be a complete, dumb, dumb and I think, with religion as the best way to come into things, because if you come in, I think with too much a preconceived sort of notions in your brain is going to go wrong while right. That's me, you just describe me. I could never tackle this cause. It would be innately offensive to the people I was talking to because they know where I stand. Unfortunately, a big opinion. I have too big of an opinion, so it's thrilling to me is because you do such great journalistic work in general. Ivan

surely come to believe. I'm gonna learn something today, which I'm just telling you as an egomaniac, there's a big Tirana, hats thank you I mean, I hope so, and I dont want to be. To judge mean to with this thing is also. Obviously we all come with baggage with certain things and I've got baggage with religion as well, but I like to think that if you have a discussion, like this US consider be open and not too closed off to other points of view. While I think I even share with you when we talked about doing the show. I have, I think, often an objective view on us in the ways we can be better and yet one it's then it by an outsider, my patriotism flares up, and I don't even think of myself as overly patron Monica yellow is what gives you the right to come into my country and start talking about who had had yeah it's popped up here, in there, where I was like. Oh wow, I guess I yeah like I love John Oliver write anything he does. A great job he's walked the line pretty well but have also seen ones rousing moving fuckin go. That's it.

He had a kind of larger for me if it gets to critical dialogue. Will then fucking go pal since I've been here by the way everyone thinks I'm british cows ally all you talk exactly like When Oliver, I things to think it's a. I came to well like a super hard. If you could talk sexual John Oliver I'll take that yeah yeah, I remember both got glasses- were both got probably slightly annoying voices yeah like if John Oliver was the Lord of the sex club, that David unless you escape here and go on a trip or something it's hard to know, how religious we are like when you go to Europe e start kind of getting the sense that it much different and then, even when you hear the other world leaders talk about us, they have to confront the fact that we're deeply deeply christian, absolutely and I think in america- it's linked to politics in a way that so so intense that a New Zealand it is ill to a degree, but nothing like here yeah we're kind of unique right.

In this marriage, even though its separate, oh yeah, well, either this idea of the separation of church and state it doesn't exist in any kind of real way. The biggest controversy I feel like a new Zealand I'm born on Christmas day right, which is a funny thing is that Lamb at the end with him, so the biggest controversy we ever had in Bethlehem was when this pizza chain called how a pizza opened. Oh and the idea like how pizza like this wacky brand, nor that pizza called Lucifer and greed and gluttony and stuff, but that was a big story in bed for him cause. That's like evil has reached Bethlehem First of all, you know we have a Lucifer's pizza. I had no idea and the best part is now. What do we have? The fuck? Do you think that was the original starter of Hell's pizza down? Invest land may live it ain't gonna. Listen here is the outgoing message. When you call Lucifer's, I encourage you to do it. Did you bring ring thank you for calling lay servers biter way out here

locations, Mailros inhale if you're calling location Prize Swann. Like all my rose location for us, oh my gosh, so that's australian or losing we found I was australian. It turned out. It was New Zealand, someone hit us, so how? also this, and this is always in me, seven usually under runs Lucifer's. I wonder if that is linked to help it. I mean this is gonna, be an episode. Obviously I am land or maybe of arm churning dangerous possesses enhancement, her heard is a good beats saw. The other thing that I want to be a bit sensitive in shows, I don't wanna come in here and just stand pull over America with my New Zealand point of view so every beside me. Do I wanted to go out and talk to people that I made your wherever I am, and so together take on things. I think it feels like an important thing to do so this is, he was takes on

religion. I know nothing about religion in America and I was wondering if you could tell me your thoughts on religion in the United States. For me personally means a faith in something bigger than myself. An example of a life could lead to joy and how I think, when I read exactly what Jesus are simple and makes sense and produces goodness in people's lives, is definitely a hot topic, I would say personally humanistic jail I haven't really founded congregation in New York City, even I've been here for fifteen years we must find a way of things to believe, and you know what we're see. I don't think that Jesus saw this should be forced on you. I created my own religion. I may about your religion. What is Europe, my religion is the Holy Church of Saint Loop is day cries. The hand of God sounds incredible. If you dont want to believe it

oh god, in Heaven Devil in her, which I really don't, because if the devil was really existing, would be ruling already like if I was the devil as an example, I would have people building pyramids bigger than the ones in Egypt will be made out of gold statues. In the world are beyond the troll, and you know I have a statue sticking out of the atmosphere where moms cross. So if there are aliens, they would come You who rules the planet, it's a really good point. The main thing I feel thing is that religion and politics are tied together in a way that doesn't exist somewhere like museum. That's what I find so fascinating I mean definitely in while it should be a division of church and state. It certainly not. I have a girlfriend to read the Bible in her state high school, so really make much sense. Politics shouldn't be evolved and religion at all. I think that, it- has the right to have their own beliefs and no one should be judged for it. I'm religious, I believe in God, but some of our friends don't and that's fine. What is the biggest

religion in America, Dino, honestly I don't know where have I had to take it does, I would say Christianity, and he was right. Christianity is the biggest one here, but you I really like that guy that had his own religion, I'd, never thought about making my own business or as an option. While you are David from baffled I'm out of her off laid out for me right yeah, exactly I don't wanna, be critical of that guy diseases, the best person you talk me by far he was great. But a little hint of irony that he thinks a religion should stay on politics and yet, when he's Satan, or I think that's who use plain in that role play he will build the statue so tall that the aliens will see who rules the earth that's kind of an innately political slightly

political ruler of this world, come see how I play yeah, it's like putting Lenin or Stalin all over every building, but he did it without even realizing that he was doing it, which is yeah the big issue. I guess with that people have with so many big religions. Once you get a big structure in place, you've got some people gonna, be up hire somebody would on it, and then it gets tricky more yeah. I do think that religion has great and tensions all of them do in its to help people and lead people and give you a lane and hope and hope exactly as it can be beautiful, but it can also really we get out of control the I'd even go so far as to say that none of the religions in themselves are flawed, but generally the men who execute the premise of the organ nation, they seem to obscure everything in it in a dark way. Yeah! That's incredibly fair! I think that peace is that there are problems,

pieces in these texts- oh yeah yeah in the text, but if you just look at kind of the horrific history of it, you know putting Galileo in prison. All these kind of crimes against science crimes against marginalized people. Grimes again driving us into a single family homes, which is a bizarre thing we all live in and maybe not the best, whereas all these things, those were human decisions. Yes, that really took some liberties with the text applied them in interesting ways: who we know who are very religious and have used only for positive growth, believe that, like they believe that humans have bastard heist kind of this holy way of living, you said earlier ducks literally the biggest thing I could possibly packed. I wanted to narrow, down slightly and so said, had chosen to focus on Christianity, because it is the biggest faith here in the United States. Yeah

so you're. As always any real said, I want to present a little documentary and we consider chat about it afterwards. But this one is my documentary about religion. Will you gotta go Christianity is like, have you come to America and talk about cars you're, going to talk about Chevrolet you're talk about General Motors or Ford. You know if you're going to get in World of Emma? May you go Doktor Carr Macgregor. you can go on the ice right today, yeah corner now, I'm wearing Conor Macgregor pants. Today, people who don't know let's see it, would you like? A rival Montague, yes, they are a plaid dress, pant their skin type, the very tight white and dark grey plaid, but like a An plaid orgy, zebra them paper thing. You did a lie: religion, ding, Ding, ding. If you look close enough at my projects, you know what else Qana loves. Besides, I may tell me religion,

it actually took me a while to decide on the best person to educate me about how Christianity works in Amerika. I mean who's based to talk to do I and an old scholarly theologian from Yale. Or do I look for a toad outsider, an atheist, no, there be to biased against Christianity. Maybe I could go for them. Oh ground, a lazy agnostic who can't make up their minds, or I could talk to a christian there- over two hundred million of them here in Amerika, but which one to Peck, Deva JI hoo. Thank you, Jesus, fish God. I execute If you bought one, you call them, or I execute judgment on you Satan. You destroyer, you killer. You get out. You boys, break your Kenneth Copeland. It was a step too far, so I rang make it yet

pleaded dollar stiens publicist to request an interview and we talk for ages and they said they get back to me, but they never did Joe was probably busy paying back as four million dollar line to the government. But then I stumbled on the perfect person to quiz about all this I called him up immediately and explain what I was doing. I might call you David area, I'm really good. I think so much backing on this quest to learn area possible thing about America? Well, that's a project I might make had was up for the challenge, up for the challenge of getting me up to speed on American Christianity, I think and to religion. The way some people are the Harry Potter our war reserve hunger games or whatever I just I'm like a fan of religions, yeah you're, a religion nerd your religion fan boy, yes, as well as being a cop Jim MIKE is also a science adviser and story consultant working with studios like Marvel films, see

my cousin to Christianity and science. He grew up as a Baptist just like I did, but then If that behind and became a hard core atheist, stir the average. Ordinary southern Baptists turned atheist, turned mystic I grew up in innocent really conservative fundamentalists, wings of american White Evangelical Christianity. I didn't know that I just thought was christian and that that was right way to be and yet totally normal totally normal? I actually like my faith, because I appreciated the clarity of moral guidance and an understanding of what it meant to be a good person and probably would still be evangelical today, except life happens. My

add who was a minister in our church ended up having an affair which is like not that big a deal, but when he was like the minister at the church- and I was at a dont Deacon that really caused a crisis of confidence. For me, and so as I wanted to help exhort my dad back into a ripe relationship, a God. when on a really intense period, a Bible study and I'm autistic, and so I read very quickly and I retain when I read and so setting down the Bible for the first time it was not a text that held together terribly well in terms of narrative cohesion. Let's just say that I also of science, and so you know when I read it and Genesis like a very clear claim. Trees were made before stars in the order of creation that did not really fit with how I understand the periodic table, as in this,

I destined trees. But how did they get there? The Bible tells us. The stars were created after the trees, so MIKE became an atheist For him? It was a big life changing moment his whole, Oh view collapsed. His entire belief system came undone I just realized gods, not a thing. I was a kid in Amity friends, your classic nerd, so personal evangelical. Jesus thing was really important to me because it meant I had a friend and so there was a lot of grief. I got through it and I was pretty happy and I started talking to my family, about my lack of belief and what came next for us and to make a very long story short. I wrote a book about it. Even you know had a mystical experience I felt like I was in the direct presence of the divine okay, so this gets a bit weird. MIKE told me, he heard voices and sore lies a light Ryan

front of them that drift towards them and took up his whole frame aside, He wasn't on areas D. He wasn't on dope, he wasn't high. So if you like me, you think, that may be MIKE lost. The plot had never sort of some kind, but here's the thing MIKE thought that too, I thought the most likely cause for this mescal experience. It was probably like a tumor somewhere in my brain, so I went to see a neurologist and, I said, look I think I have brain cancer, the neurologist like. Why do you think brain cancer. At said, I'm saying flashing lights, I'm hearing voices that aren't there and I'm having feelings of profound transcendence, and nor are they said. Ok, that's worth so I got a cat scan in an mri. No tumor, a lesion, and so I was left with two things: one a world that made more sense without God in it this feeling of profound love, and so I started trying to

get to the root of that and that led may not only to study world. straight away and not before, but also a really deep dive, and to the neurology and physiology of religious experiences to try to figure out what happened to me in what was useful. That could be integrated into my lot state June for more flight. This work will be right back after a word from male sponsors, flightless bird supported by helix sleep. I got my. he likes mattress about a month ago, and I am loving it. I've had a terrible mattress firm. a long time and have a bad back so being able to sleep on a mattress. Annex XI has me waking up feeling great is kind of a revelation. This thing just arrived on my doorstep, it was quick was easy. If you don't like it, you can pick it up and they'll pick it up and take it away back. That's not going to happen because this mattress is fantastic. I also let it because it really is customize give just take a too

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entity with these giant buildings. It's a big question, but how do you see religion, specifically Christianity in America? Is this a good place to be a Christian on a balance? Now America's strange mass proliferation of faith, traditions and calls- and all I can stuff is the only possible conclusion from the way this country architect at its, there are lots of nations, especially european nations, on earth that have truly ancient christian traditions within them. But It always had an affiliation with the state, so there's a state church and most european nations, and then you get to the United States and it s a pretty wild ideas. And basically it's like everybody gets to choose for themselves. What faith are going to be a partner and the state doesn't favour one hour. So there's no pope, for instance, there's no big,

ass, there's no central religious authority whatsoever which work creates two things. Number one almost an exchange market of religious traditions trying to sell themselves to adherence to become viable, so there's like a competitor mindset and then for me, as someone who thinks natural selection of such a great way to understand many natural phenomenon of living things you create select the pressures on religions to adapt and be the fittest for the current social context. that- creates number one- a lot of religious experimentation and number two people shop around for whatever trip.

They like the most, and there are a lot to shop for anger, Laconism, Calvinism, Methodism, Pentecostal, ISM, Baptists, disciples of Christ, Presbyterians, the United Church of Christ. The list goes on and on and on american religion mutates and adapts rapidly compared to many world faiths. There is actually a tremendous in stability about it, which actually makes it spread really fast, both in our country and then because, where America we love to export, our way of thinking in which critics agraeans would call colonizing to the whole. World is that you see american style denominations and mega churches kind of propagating across planet in a way that is almost terrify. It's true, we do

make a churches in New Zealand, and there are a lot like American make a churches complete with charismatic passes and snappy suits slipped back here. Glowing skin gold, watches and nice shoes. These passes a usually wealthy their conquered. Asian less so- and that's always found strange to me- I don't understand how does the money come into it? You ve got these incredibly wealthy people, you literally giving them your money. You know ten percent and above what makes that a good idea, because they affluence of it and the money is so strange to me, as is the political alignment american Christians to me, seemed to idleness in politics, the people that are least christian and their behaviour in what they do. It's like, I literally, don't understand the huge dissonance there. Can you please explain those very simple things to me: Let's start with the money, then go the power. You know, America, is a brilliant marketing machine. If I start

I started on America. Some people are going to bristle because they're going to read me as unpatriotic, but I throw darts at this country because I love it and I think it could be better. I don't say things about America, because I hate it and the Brit propaganda of America. Is that it's the land of opportunity and it has receipts right, so you can point to people who grew up in poverty and are now millionaires. There are those success stories the propaganda that comes out of that is, if you work hard. Anyone can achieve huge levels of economic success in the United States, which is factually incorrect. Some small percentage of people who worked very hard will achieve something in the system. But we know, statistically, the vast majority of hard working people in the United States are born poor and stay poor and I have american religion doing what trying to thrive.

I've in a religious market place through adaptation, and so when you. the olive that notion. You get things like the prosperity gospel where God wants you be rich. You live in the richest country in the world, this land of opportunity, and God wants you to be successful. It must not just hard work that matrix successful its faithfulness to the scriptures and, of course the scriptures include hiding and timing is a good hook. Now you to tie the when I went to church is a teenager and New Zealand and part of what made it appealing is that every time there was a natural disaster. The church would spend whole Sunday talking about what they had done without tides dollars, we were the first responders with and first aid before the slow governmental, the Red Cross got there because we had already raised money in advance and from the perspective of a Christian, not only are they helping people. There.

Also helping people souls because whatever disaster is being attended, two chances are the law for it with a sigh dish of christian preaching, and that feels really good. You feel like so I've been giving a huge percentage, my earnings to a church and then that church is giving a huge percentage of its earnings to this? Other organization, that is now really doing what we say we're about and that helping people so that between those two things number one, the account of America Success propaganda number two religion for innovations really are often the first to a disaster say, but they attach to other messaging So that's why Christians happily ties and if you're, into the prosperity breed of evangelical Christianity, then you believe, the more money you put into the church the morning God will give you both on earth end up in Heaven, which is a big bonus. Next minute, you ve got a ministers with private jets and ten houses

then, does the other question I head: why evangelical Christians so tied up in politics. A New Zealand where proud of the separation between church and state, but in America they talk about a separation bit to me. It's not very cypriot religion and politics is like a big part of sickly soup, o mixing together the greatest man or we start now, we'd like to pray over him. President from these are some of their greatest state leaders, because we know that prayer makes a difference. Americans are famously a historic and their awareness. right like there's today and there's tomorrow. Yesterday is not a thing, but if you go back and you look at how even Journalism emerged back to the late eighteen, hundreds and early nineteen hundred

theological liberalism was carrying the day. I mean we talk about people right now as having liberal ideas about God, but you got, it is very distant. Abstract, impersonal, cosmic God and almost all american churches, people very soon big minded. There is a focus on contemplative practice, not electrifying stuff and tell one evangelical put on a suit and started intent, revivals two cities- and that was the Reverend Billy, Graham, Bela. Do you believe in demons? I surely do and Jesus confronted demons time after time I mean, could cast out people but when the under the powers of demons we're getting their sanity Billy RAM was such a good communicator and was so sophisticated that, when he described to a bunch

of main line Protestants, a God that new them personally and loved them. Personally, why that really let people up, and so, when Billy dams, doing these crusades thousand of main line, Protestants would come down and get say and Billy Gram not only convert. literally literally millions of people to evangelical Christianity. He also spend time with every american president, whereas the main line Protestants had this pretty important, entrench notion of a separation between church and State Billy Gram Start saying: through his actions we ve gotta be involved and spiritually inspiring our political leaders wants that seed is planted increasingly ambitious actors. over time, get more and more involved in politics, and so Christianity in politics became intertwined in american culture. I mean, if you talk to an even jealous

well christian in the fifties about abortion, they probably wouldn't even care. That's a throw that question over to the Catholics, but that's all changed now the showdown over abortion across this country. In fact, protesters outside the homes of chief Justice, John Roberts and Justice, Brett Kavanaugh interact with the republican leader, Mitch, Mcconnell and the Senate is now saying about the possibility of a federal abortion ban. If ROE vs Wade is overturned, I'm going to choose Imagine why would I choose Christianity because the bad seems quite bad to me sure the bad is Gli bad. That's why I don't really do a lot of public work around Christianity anymore, but personally, no, I absolutely still identify, as turns I to be really clear. I think whatever happens when we die happens to everybody and out to be really clear that whatever created

that we experience created every body and that nobody has special or privileged access to what came before or what comes after. So I'm a christian for a couple. A reason number one gosh, how many hours have invested in Understand english versions of Hebrew, scriptures and the new testament, I'm incredibly conversant and christian the owl jeez and christian language and a lot of people. They leave crochet me behind and they like kind of ape like really and sophisticated interpretations of eastern religious traditions and I'm just not interested in colonizing somebody else's religion. I'm a terrible person to ask if you like, convinced me why Christianity, I can't I won't I'm just not interested in that, but when I pray

on neurological conditioning when I invoke the name of Jesus. Something happens in May and because, for me, faith is such a truly personal pursuit. I just lean ended the statute for more flight. This work will be right back after a word from mouth sponsors, flightless bird supported by article article has launched than you line of outdoor products for summer. Twenty twenty two think oversized statement. Lounges, streamline dining pieces and easy to style sofas for all your backyard needs. I'm so excited for this, because I already have two amazing article outdoor chairs. I walked into my house yesterday and my architect had rearranged them into table you see some sort of magician he s and I was like, oh my god, these are so multipurpose, but really there just incredibly comfortable, incredibly well made chairs and I'm gonna get into this new collection and fill out the rest em out or space things like this.

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connected in a way that sees him leaning into Christianity. While I lean away from it, how much is your brain chemistry have to do with whether your religious person or not, I think lot of animals. Science behind this and some of the clues founded found crazier stories of ever heard in the fifties and Sixtys to try to treat very severe forms of epilepsy neurosurgeons. With several corpus close on the channel of nerves. That connect the two hemispheres of the rain together and they were shocked to find that when you sever the corpus colossal men, someone wakes up, they seem completely unaffected. That seemed to do nothing. What actually happens, though, as we have two hemispheres of our brain. They talk alongside it, but both of our hemispheres, our brain are pretty self sufficient, and so they can kind of go on through life.

Created a phenomenon for those patients called alien hand syndrome where they would find that their non dominant hand often was no longer under their control. So someone might take his shirt off of a hanger, and then there are other hand grabs it hangs it back up, so they went to I was going on and they start devising experiments to isolate the two halves of the bright so that you can use a mere it up with a monitor to display messages on only one side of the field of vision, so that you can talk to each side of the brain and the problem is only the left brain and most people can speak. The right brain cannot speak so in order to to let the right hemisphere communicate, they train people to basically scrabble tiles to talk. So if you ask a question, I left brain

in the left. Brain speaks out loud events, question of the right brain the alien hand, will answer were scrabble tiles. They asked one patient in particular if he was a Christian, and he said yes and no longer using scrabble titles, but now appointing device. His right brain said no one half the brain was, believer and the other half was not, and I actually think what that person became was the first honest, religious person in the world because our consciousness, where we perceive ourselves as a single observer watching the world in reacting to it is not accurate in terms of our brains, work, the different structures in our brain compete and get into conflict. every moment of our lives, about what we're going to do an yeah. What we're going to believe, and so at that time I read that stuff

I was so happy because our The figure out like a mile christian, am I an atheist, and in a moment I went part, so my brain are christian and parts of my brain or atheistic, and maybe I just need to stop trying to browbeat one my brain and submission, and just let him do what they do and be honest about. The fact that I am not a rational machine I'm an evolved biological organism who has competing impulses designed to help me survive, probably in the old school tradition of Christianity. I was raised with light one half of you is going to Heaven and one half is like down into the fiery bits of how right say I really like talking to MIKE, and maybe that's because I had in common with them. I grew up as a Baptist. Just like MIKE did I believing that, if I believed in Jesus I go to Heaven,

a literal Heaven white hidden with gold coin. and singing angels blissful? all eternity that mean I was a girl up, believing that, if I strayed from Christianity, if I gave it I'd, spend an eternity in the lower depths of hell and being poked and prodded by a devil I can that little massacres, video but lay sick, see. So I know this is weird, but I find it a bit scary and unsettling talking to MIKE, because if he's rise and Christianity has got something going for it, what if all that housetop is actually true as well? I know it's really stupid to believe that I'm thirty eight, I don't believe in Santa. Why would I believe in how? But there's a bit of me a tiny little bit- that's don't worry about it. So my last question to MIKE was about that. Is that normal being an adult nonreligious person who's a tiny bit scared of how what you're talking about is

inevitable and unavoidable because of how brains, work, when we learn something new that happens on the outer layers of our brain and then the cortex. That's when we have a very cod of understanding, anything about trying to learn to write a bike at first, you have to think like I gotta pedal A steer, you're thinking, thinking, thinking empty, exhausting literally makes you tired, but as you to write a bike that moves from this kind of outer neo cortex into deeper structures in the brain where it gets encoded and it becomes Harry neurologically efficient. If I go ten years like getting on, icicle and then get on one after about three seconds. My body goes out to do this.

While your child, religious beliefs, are at that same level of imposing as riding a bicycle, and so even though you might have changed your thoughts out here in the NEO Cortex Euro Migdal still affiliate because of childhood conditioning on right believe with eternal damnation. It is probably not possible to completely eliminate that reflects, and many people who grew up in deep religious fundamentalists household yeah fuck, but what we can do instead is trust. What scientists, a mental health experts have to tell us, and that is that the things My childhood that helped us survive are bad, but they're they're. So when things stop working for US old survival strategy, that's when we have to wire up new survival strategy. So for me, my strata what I would have the like: oh my gosh, I'm a heretic apostate.

going to Hell. I would stop- and I would say to that part of my brain- thank you for trying to keep me safe and then kind of get myself just a little hug. Cuz me try take care may when you change that little hack, that posture of gratitude that literally changes you're, Nero Chemistry in a few seconds and at ten the cause, feelings of fear and anxiety, subside and then because neurons fire together wire together today, when I have a oh, my I should go into how reaction I'm not even aware of it, because my brains so quickly shifts in two that gratitude posture that condition myself out of that response and listen that only took like ten.

There's really intensive therapeutic work. So this is day one for me. So thank you. I appreciate it sell fascinating power. How much there would arrive, he's a trip. So what part Monica jumps out just a moment. Ok, I mean the brain portion, the TEST Corpus colossal, ass, obviously, incredibly fastening. I also want to save the brave we that it takes first one who has grown up believing a thing I look inward and be like I don't know if this makes sense, any more is extreme. Yet I think people go through that at different stages. I went through it quite late. Quite we, it feel like I'm already in animal. I wasn't my twenties, so that was like a very strange process to go When you hear me explain it the way you did with the bicycle analogy, which I think is perfect. It makes total sense,

I love that analogy, because if you force me to unlearn to ride a bike, it couldn't happen. You're never going. To put me on a bicycle, and we are all at work, I didn't know delays, so you could probably unlearn anything you'd better make sure you don't unlearn how to breathe, want to discuss the terrible trait you've got. The brain thing was fucking awesome. I wanted to see if a different ethnicities are more or less right or left brain dominant it'd be really curious to me to find out. If you mapped the globe, you saw spikes or or valleys know all those things, those things and they kind of when the experiments that he was talking about. They did some quite funny one site. There was a patient and they said like do you have a crush on the nurse? He thought he was answering

I died, but his little scrabble hand was being like yeah, I'm in love with them. What if he said? No and then he saw the tiles and was like mortified just went bright red I mean I love that so much across the board, make it out of religion. It just literally It proves scientifically that you can hold two opposing opinions at the same time nation's opinions, laws, and we are always fighting that we want it to be black and white. We want to think this, and this only and we can't you're totally it's a such a stronger urge. I know exactly what you believe and to be able to find it so clearly and that's just not the way we function at all falling away from Christianity, for me was such a weird thing because for ages I tried to hold onto it, but while also enjoying the things I liked. So I light when I sort of was at high school. I got into a lot of middle music, Meda, music, the lyrics acquire quite satanic. But nobody is what it's all about. I wanted to

since this music, but I'll go through my albums and I'd like say, countless and attract three cassettes. One is like too anti religious, as I ended up with this record collection. That was, I curated. So I could function as a Christian is a version of just the tip you are playing yet was not exactly yeah exactly, and so it's such a funny thing and let you do that with enough aspects of your life and suddenly you're like. Why am I holding onto this thing yeah? I guess you take baby steps in or out yeah totally again, it's brave, though it's brave to get to the point where you're like what am I doing yeah I also say like, I would think about these thoughts and maybe criticisms urges? Explanations of the american version of Christianity is like this isn't even actually an attack on Christianity and anyway, my motto, we have a very neat version of it. The etymology of it is very fascinating. I No until I heard this David, how we got to this point where we have eighty three thousand different versions of it:

if you are english. In fact, I just had a friend tell me that their father when they join me area, the Royal Airforce the box was to check church of England or non religious, those are the two that was only in no whatever forties have ever used. There wasn't other, options that give your Christian your church of England, so I do think about It is like imagine, re Crock started Mcdonald's and then the franchise has got to do whatever work best in their town. Well, we gotta have some bbq options. While we got to have some egg rolls in this town, Mcdonald's would mean virtually nothing other than the name completely. The system works dishes to it becoming so fractured and fragmented. Here in so many different options, the same thing happened that happened in the marketplace, which is, if you car guy you go, I'm afford guy I've drive for trucks, it's a religion, I'm a mole par guy. I'm a chevy finds you I'm an apple guy, I'm about to bear all marketing, I know, but no

was gonna say in England, Alma Church of England guy you're like yet? Everyone is there's nothing to separate you. So their becomes identity. When you have so many different yeah actions, you couldn't have made Christian Your primary identity in England, as I didn't say anything about you, you, everyone dive seems you didn't: have zero zero cattle off fuck! We live in ITALY, where all catholic here your neighbors, would be Baptists. Oh maybe Angelica! Oh I'm protestant on my Lutheran all I'm minuet wow here, which is a shorthand as well to like telling people what you believe in what is important to what club here, and it is so american because it is built on it, in my opinion, a very strong, wonderful ideal, which is that there should be a separation between what the guy Vermont or the state or one person, one group tells you like, we should have control over our individual actions. I mean it's a liberty concept essentially, but then it comes with all of this other stuff. It turns into a market

place your while she is best idea. Wins completely. Was the thing that I find so funny about mega churches is when I started getting cafes and my fancy a fancy, a things inside and things and joy, when cause I outrun them all out, compete each other to get your attention with very human things. Like Wanna haven't yummy coffee. When I go to my Sunday service, why are you sure I won't everywhere I go to have a Starbucks in the bathroom psych happen there take a squirt and we should and Mormons in their low but too because a regionally there's this guy miles, ISM and then Martin Luther King comes along he's got protestantism, yes and basically his unit concept, as you don't need an intermediary, you don't need a priest, you have a relationship with God and you need to read the book and then he embarked on this mass literacy programme, which was very successful and then that's what arrives here as me, we that so then Joseph Smith took a step further and you're, not just going to chat with God,

you'll receive revelations as well. I'm prophecies like a great bonus to have right. Yes, again up your involvement in by the way it's one or one it's like, if you want great, employs, give them some ownership and make them feel like they're, a part of it. If you like People in on the ownership side, the arrow can I get more yard, never thought about It is in that way before and we d you, we don't really have many moments in New Zealand, it's just not suddenly outcomes a great deal of thought to yeah. I was just talking to Huey. on south and he's not more money, he's back to suddenly he's like yeah, you just can't knew better than having all Mormon neighbours and, as an absolute, I've never met someone that live all among Mormons, where they were delighted. Superman Austria's very family, oriented clinking cities. You know it would be unfair to say one thing: She comes with all this interesting stuff, yeah yeah. Now I just wanna rip

For me, Mormonism is in its own compartment, because we know when created my. We know that timelines and Scientology is a similar thing where it's like. You know beginning you know the people, and so it makes it for me much easier to disregard and like ok, because that was in the timeline of our Reno existence, not ours, but you know you can play psychology on it much better than the Christianity or Judy is? I'm only so like a lot american us about people who wrote the Bible were how that was even instructed. That document does like a dreamy quality too. As I say, I didn't, as Billy Graham had that big of a role and no neither did I for a million folks yeah. I heard it as his big tent revivals, which still happen. That's the other thing that blew my mind. I didn't understand here in America that those big tent revivals are still going on yeah, like it's a good way to get people award.

Rockin was Bethlehem, because where I grew up, it was pretty fucking boring and we would have this Paul Bunyan fare in the rides were shit, they're, fucking garbage in the popcorn booths sucked, but man we were counted down the days of that fucking fair church was pretty boring for me growing up until the Baptist church is whither get. You, though, is that youth group so like Andrew Bill I'll come and much this movie that we're watching a single we're going bowling or doing something fonder per se. How I got you end with the funding for these outside of church? I did it. Did you? Yes, fell, so uncomfortable wasn't christian, but I was kind of pretence. Needing to be made even when friends, what asked like what the general public, I, like I like didn't want to yeah looking at, I did not want to say I was very embarrassed, but you went to some youth group kind of like yeah. My friend was going to like Fun youth group. Just like do you wanna come I'd, say yes and then the whole,

I may just be like I I too, when I had a good buddy neck in junior high who I loved and he was very active in it, and he kept inviting me and then I eventually felt guilty enough to go. When I went to a few things and his youth pastor got up in the speech he gave us was he used to be. worshipper and he hung with many divorced, birds, and one of them was so powerful that when they would drive around in the car he could activate all the lights green. Well, that's very given all the kids really like that now swains at all, and I just again, I'm just such a cynic or skeptic. I was like first of all, a new turn: the lights, Greenland, as one can have a bank doors, fall open or something you now yeah, but Christianity. It is the trained as slowly moving down and increasing in America. More people, agnostic or atheist, or some sort of light non God belief, system going on there.

Of anything words like in this has happened in the bass with music. What's like, we export it, and then it gets three imported back. So, like some people on my extended family love Mega church preacher from the Philippines, I sought cycle, a left here went to the Philippines. There's a super charismatic filipino preacher. The hours got a big following here. That is it s, a very amusing cycle. We can export our culture and then it comes back like, the automobile. Now, all of a sudden, these other places make a cooler autumn. You know that's very. I can't wait to one of our New Zealand Mega Church preaches becomes like a big hit over here in the United States. That would be amazing and isn't Bieber disciple of are a following member was or is hell song. That was his big thing for a while held some church. Was there an australian mega church? Originally Baron example of it. I guess they copied America sat in Australia and have now got big churches. Here you gotta

american living Canadian following an australian mega church base at a regional level as vague circle. Jerk Cross party a meagre religion, but it does go to show how big and powerful that group is an american that we haven't had a non christian President Amber, and part of that is because need that grew. So, even though its sixty percent or wherever there are strong, sixty know their passionate everything else like Heaven and hell as such, huge thing? They don't hold a lilies. Of course I cannot vote for that question president in My fellow atheist will point out that the thing you will never see as an atheist press you'll see a black pressing as you female president. We had a catholic present you're, not gonna, see a president says I dont believe. Thanks it'll, be the last is what I'm saying the editor.

Is what you're saying about earlier. I find it almost as irritating when you have someone who has such a strong atheist as someone who is so incredibly religious, that they won't stop talking about it and telling you how bad or stupid you are. I just don't like the notion of anyone trying to convert everyone to how they think that could be an atheist, Krishna Catholic Unita that this same ultimately at their on opposite ends of the spectrum, but they're doing the exact same thing. Proselytizing are you? Are you see it very annoyed when christian friends or triumphs convert me back to her? Kennedy, but then also about what made me less annoyed about. That is that in their minds, they I lit Surely there trying to save you from an eternity and how so I always remind myself, be insulting if they weren't China. Save me back trying to remind myself of that occasionally but an agreement, we have family members that are concerned that we haven't baptize. Our children are like a nice where we're not religious and I go. I git it me and if I believed I was going to Heaven and my children, weren't gonna, join me. It's all. I would think about, but be huge huge. I totally get it I do on. I advocate for people

watching the Tammy, Faye shards so good, and I was watching with our good friend, perfect and Charlie I've seen it too. yeah. How did you like it yeah? It's really fine! It's just a great insight into how those brains work. Charlie like thing, I'm gonna memorize the Bible, their I'm dedicate the time, because what was fascinating is like everything exists in the Bible, like any one is trying to make a single narrative out of it. It's preposterous, there's a scene where the religious educators trying to shame one or the other people that they should be sexual than he had some with some other scripture and than he had some with another verse. All the virtues of every angle. Virtually exists as a literally just pick is the perfect cherry picking anyways. It's all there every side of every argument virtually is in there yeah. I think what also is interesting about eyes of Tammy Faye. That's the name of the movie when they're, even in their private bedroom, Tammy and Jim Jim, is

telling everyone he's saying, gauze, putting a lot of pressure on me justifying what we all think they scammed everyone which they did. But he really still believes that it's not like here in his own private bedroom is like a case of this What we're gonna do- and this is how we gonna do it and it was wrong when he because it is a scheme, but he has convinced himself that it's what God watts you're absolutely Elsa Gulf would be too much for him. I supplies cassettes a thing of all of these. Is this a graft, or is this a personal belief or is it a combination of both the mouse heartbreaking thing for me? Is that if the movies correct she didn't finish, fucking Gary, she had not been fucked him. Forever and then she's, finally, getting fucked and she's telling him how big he is: she's, loving it and the water breaks. So that's all charlie- and I talked about for the next two hours- I'm like I re did they just showed us one of the They please say they fought pleasing. She got hammered good.

once could she had to go on tv and vote? Take it on the chin. I hope, the game. I hope they ve got a bunch of times. Is that really what happen midway through this great? fuck water broke and to go the hospital. That is, I can't recover from that fence. Credible. Its wasn't my take away, but as it is tragic religion, it's a powerful forces in it. I still am amazed that were literally counting the years since Jesus was born. That's how big it is now our whole. The way we look at time is linked back to how many years ago Jesus is born is crazy, I'm God we trust Sano money. You really love Christianity here in the states I take away. It's made me very well because a new Zealand I'll guided dinner parties or France has and I'll dismissive of Christianity, sometimes I get about wreckage of Exxon. I am a bit arrogant about it, whereas here I won't do that now, gloved a few times of like put myself in

Can I realize I'm surrounded by people, your Christians and I'm I'm? Ok, that's right! I'm grateful. I think I used to be the other version of an atheist that I said before before having all these christian friends that came into my life through Kristen. I don't want to take away the wonderful thing that it adds to certain people's lives that I know you don't want to be rude. I love it for them yeah. I don't want to shit on their thing, yeah, that's not what friends do so what friends are for? I promise that future episodes will be not all as deep and as dance. Religion, some well being hoping. You know a lot about this and we hope that a deeper- and I learned so much good, I learned a lot. I'm gonna cut my corpus doctors.

The cut his fellows get others scrabble tiles, I'm so excited to watch. You learn all about America and in doing so, educate because I didn't know that shit. I want to be a good american you're. A good customer the