Sean Penn (Milk, Fast Times At Ridgemont High, I Am Sam, Into the Wild) is an American actor, director, screenwriter, producer, author and humanitarian. Sean chats with the Armchair Expert about recognizing limitations, the freedom he finds in writing books and the impact of cancel culture. Dax wonders what drove Sean toward humanitarian work and Sean talks about the human desire for wanderlust. The two talk about the point at which assets become embarrassments, their mutual love of Bukowski and Sean's disapproval of insincerity.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
I welcome all the norm. Chair expert, I'm dyin shepherd of joy by man should now. How are you doing on so good as we have such a fine guests? I know what a flattering gas by the best living actor. He's at least tied guys the dossiers incredible Sean and that's right. Sean mother, fucking PAN is a two Time Academy award winning and Golden Globe winning actor director in writer. You know from milk missed river. I am SAM, the thin red line, dead man, walking Carlito Way fast times at Richmond High Any has a series of books that we'll talk extensively about Bob Honey who just does stuff in the newest instalment Bob Honey sings, Jimmy Crack corn tree what a door treat we the monsters and we were just like. Could this guy beam anymore, articulate and wonderful and then view that again here? I now lucky us. Please
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I know very well. How are you good? I'm really really really genuinely excited to me. You over this zoom interact rate to meet both deal. I gotta tell you some stuff. I will five a m this morning. I don't do that. I wake up and when whatever my kids are up, look up at five with lot of anxiety about talking. You because the personal stay, are really really high in its there's a lot of bringing a lot of baggage into this, and I just one the own it all up front are if your appropriately worn to warn you back the girl, you weirdly, Ben involved and how I was trying to define myself as a man, and I think it starts with learning at a young age that you loved Bukovsky and that you became friends with brutality, and I just was obsessed with big and I thought: there's must be something that would draw him to because, as I'm sure you ve done with people when you were growing up, I was like that tells me
something about you in the best way, and I just wondered: how did you come to meet him? I had gotten a gift of one of his books, poetry, but I guess when I was about to twenty two and it was a volume that was out of war all the time that had some of his paintings, You know one all wrangle with his actual acrylics and in it- and I reading and reading it up something so fresh from the formality of of what poetry was too. You know a surfer, growin up the mountain, and I think that it is really struck me as a life of unfamiliarity that were familiar somehow there was something in the street shooting itself in the vulnerability of it. So then, many years later, I was determined to work with Dennis Hopper for us to come up with a project to do
gather because his early movie set as a director had really influenced my interest in fell, and so I met Dennis through mutual friend and know. We had a lunch and told him that I wanted to work with them at that time. He was not getting directing jobs. Hadn't for over a decade is heat. It ruffled some feathers in the business and pretty cigar carries, and I was at a kind of hot spot in my career. I suppose, and was in a position I think, to get some go. And if we can come up with something we want to do together, and he suggested that I read screenplay a butterfly with our high already published in on sale of book stooped down and sensible about someone got it. I got thrilled with the idea of making that movie with Dennis, but Dennis told me something else which was that he had had a long term
bad bad relationship with the fellow who had commissioned it, it was a commission work by a french director and they'd never got it off the ground. So I went to the director Barbie shoulder and said. Can we mend this thing? Cuz I'd like to make this movie with Dennis Hopper, and he says we'll make it with me and it was too late for that. I was already committed to do it with Dennis if we could do it. So I called Hank later being asked to call Charles Bukowski Hank call through his publisher, the Black Sparrow Press, and they got in touch with them and said he would call me on the payphone at Musso Franks for one afternoon and just get a get a booth close to the phone. So I can get it before. Someone else there's something one hundred like newspaper terrorism when it was like the phone rang and
a kind of growled, my name to make sure it was me answer the phone and I said he up, and he said He said your my last favorite actor. I didn't know that meant least favoured or if he had no more time for favorite actors, I mean so many things is really going to get- only have three favorite actors in your number three also mean you're, the least favoured actor of it. It's up to you to decide in either case we drug up friendship. I started spending. Sunday down at his eyes for the next five or ten years in San Diego. Pedro originally in conversation, about whether we could you know pry this thing from Barbaik here
or Barbie on board to support it, because this blood feuds Dennis Hopper was about twenty years old and really shouldn't many thing at that point, but he remained determine, and I guess it got out there, that I was interested in doing this project and so make your chimed up and said to Barbaik, hey I'll, do it with you so they went and did it and my relationship with had continued the seven part from that. You must have read Hollywood the earlier Therefore, yes, and then you even you offered to do the movie for dollar, wasn't that the kind of famous story around it yeah, I think make easy I'll, take two dollars and I'll. Do it with you too, with our eager and yet the deal so ok did. Would you attempt to isolate what is appealing about
bukovsky. I think, no matter what you look like you feel like the guy with boils. I don't know I felt like the guy with boils that they that he was in there was some beauty to his rejection of society and that he was just honest about the fuck up. He wasn't that there was some beauty to that and I think what appealed to me as a young man was oh, you can do that you can go all their societies norms and I'm goin this way, and I don't give a fuck as long as I'm honest, it'll come out in the wash was any of that enticing view yeah. I think very much on point one of the things. I remember asking him, because Very rarely would he extent look in the eyes kind of an animal like thing he could be talking very gently about something very tender or something aggressive, but he would be off I like many times, and I asked him once I said you know you, don't you don't really connect in the eyes
much and a very quickly. You know there was no affectation to it. He just said I don't like guys, and you know what you think about the things that we value the. What we attach value to the connection eyes, your people, toast they gonna tell the eyes or the symmetry of a face or the color of the ocean. In all of these things, you know it's it's. What's the real value, what's the real value of success of what does it mean? What is the word really mean and he was off the page on all of that, so you had
the poem I met a genius where he talks about see it's not that beautiful. You know we can imagine. Somebody has been in a horrible accident, doesn't have eyes. Is there not beauty to see in them will course they're at, and so there was something for everybody, and yet most people found that which was for all of us frytown, intimidating, yeah, yeah, yeah, everything that he wasn't it just cause. He spoke a kind of a purer language and a more honest one, more universal one, which I think is why he was so universally red around the world yeah. What also really really liked is. I was a fuckin lush and I was proud of being a lush. I think who is Boot Caskey in many ways, or I think I was trying to be because keep and I've always been obsessed with artists who seem to have lived the worse life on paper, but they contributed some song.
Or some book that kind of exonerated them from all that and I very much have always sought exoneration for pain, someone who cheats in party to heart and the idea that really appealed to me for our big chunk of my life. It will look. We know that you know a lush. I've been a lush myself beetle lucious, ultimately an unsustainable value added. However, when we look at the kind of anti exoneration period that wherein that's not sustainable, either a library you know that you're right, there's gotta, be? If not us liberation and embrace of the imperfections of all of us or we're just. And be an increasingly hypocritical society and and and a kind of game out, Haters society. Eating things that we ourselves possess. Judging our neighbours for Yet we did an hour ago absolutely and and besides the opportunity,
the call somebody out somehow supersedes the ability to recognise all that we see the same thing in the mirror. As you say, five minutes earlier, yeah yet and do you fear? I have a fear- and I think its present in your book- that the new expectation of perfection is going to lose, met the pool of people. We have to solve our problems to such a degree. That I don't even know how we progressed right, like if the barrier of entry is perfection whose standing to try to solve a problem. Yeah, I'm what you get is a kind of the order of versatile, and so you have the least responsible, the lease self reflective people
the greatest amount of voice and power, and so that sets a standard. A lowering of the bar of the human spirit that is, creates a mass depression, and I think that that, along with this covered pandemic and all that comes with it and all that will come with it, but the kind of excess mortality issues, people who are afraid to go visit. Public health facilities. The check a lump here or here- will end up getting their first diagnosis stage forest instead estates, one or two. You know we're gonna be living with the effects of this, and I been a lot of things you know in the kind of psychological pandemic that preceded covered, that we ve seen
really on account. Exponential rise in are divisiveness, and it's not just a political divisiveness. It's devices in this of aspiration and a kind of freedom of connection of thought that it becomes all too cautious and less magical things happen. I guess I don't know what the outcome now that everything's kind about loud and broadcast it certainly opening everyone up to this? Shame Jeanne. That's one aspect of it. Then another part of me things. Will you just can't hide so the shit you and I got away with that- there are no witnesses to would now I have lots of witnesses in my thought is: will this eventually, while or owning our warts or our peoples, is gonna get so good at crafting their curated presenting south as to avoid the shame? Like I dont know what the outcome is given a pin,
I mean my practical opinion and my gal use. The word spirit. Opinion are antithetical to each other. I hope that in the end it is going to have been a valuable adventure haha and it somehow the technological and the too much information personal information we have on each other will will sort of final, like water, find its own level and merge with level, humanity that we are power, game yeah, but that's not going to happen today. So it's going to take him deep, breaths and look in real life. And you know there is a line. Saw a wall somewhere. What in Omaha Nebraska years ago, I ended up tag in a movie with it. The air, which is every new child born, is proof that, God is not
discouraged of man. I don't even know what I think of God and the conventional sense I tend to be among those who feel this is gonna end in a black, a basin that that's ok with You want to get some interview. I want to be in the quest for data, hers. You are like the sciences in so we're all gonna die material at his heels shortly, so many workers- he's a younger electric wetted. The fat lady has sang as they were in the certainty that Lady sung on that which we knew, and so do we need to stand up and say, let's walk into this and have the courage to say we don't know what it's gonna be Maybe it's gonna be bad. Maybe it's gonna be supply, but they can be more right I can't imagine you want to talk about your movies too much. That's my guess, but I have to tell you about a couple of your indulgence: our racy with the moon. I think my first,
feelings of love. Are that movie? I think Dave grew since or which I listen do all morning this morning, with my seven year, old daughter cried, maybe four times. I don't think, there's a prettier score ever made. Did you have a beer the full time making that I just pray yeah. Was really a magic moment? Mendocino, California, early eighties, I suppose, was still so intact to what it had been. It was where they had shot summer of forty two, which problem it was my first day in a movie relationship with love out, so the place was predisposed to were like me up. The only downside to that experience was it was a world war, two era movie, and it did seem to make sense after having done several plays where I smoke cigarettes, but I put him right down afterwards It was smoking through that movie when I was leaving aside driven up there in my seventeen,
Camaro and I've been up there a few months shooting and when I left I left you know, as I always did the cigarettes, but and I got down by the Albion River- and I heard the tobacconist calling come back to this shovels and I was still trying to be dealt with. There's always does that mean camels? No, there were actually a turkish company. Ah guy yeah I was, I was even influenced by the packaging and Canada was like a sharp emerald green and they were, they were mild, non filtered cigarette. How do I used? I use those through the movie and they gonna hold him yeah yeah. It is, money right, I remember being conscious of it. Even I think about eighteen hours like oh, this is enough it anymore. I don't like me. Smoking with my bodies is not enough any more. I am now doing this thirty days.
The day- and I can't foresee myself not doing it in- those are we're moments when you're, not in on the joke anymore, when you go from mass to the slave, like that, yeah yeah in it. So it's a tiny little window of master. I just also want to say I just Falcon in the snow man with such a credible movie, and I just adored Timothy Hutton. Much, and I think you did too yeah what what what magic sauce did. He have that was so attractive, yeah I'm on the other things. The guy was such whip, smart guy and sowed so purely talented and and also a very generous man, and he was really responsible for me as much as anybody getting in the movies, because I think it had been at least a decade when I started working in the theater. I didn't expect to work into into in movies to my late 30s, because that's
much of the leading actors were though at least MID Thirty's, guys, like Nicht Multi, when I was gradually high school. I'd Mcnulty was almost forty years old. By did german enrichment, poor man right right, or forty eight hours, like that, all that when I hear you know he worked in the theatre for years before that happened, and so that was the expectation and then TIM because they weren't making movies with it was kind of like almost not since the air of James Dean had they had in a young actors carrying the pictures tat until ordinary people and TIM Hutton kind of Blue doors down on, and then projects were developed around him and it was casting director. It comes me in a play in New York and got me an audition Tim was in there auditioning with all the guys planet, the main roles- and I remember after working with him that day. First time I met him and before he had done,
the chat with the director after I left the room. He look down the hall after me. He says I see later and I got offered that movie chaps after that, and so then we had a great time working together to it very close, close Nanda Falcons, so man came up with John Pleasanter, and that was a another adventure but here he he kind of kicked it off for virtually the entire generation TIM Hunt. It ok and then at close range Here is where I go. Oh, this guy's manliest fuck. You got jacked for that movie in it. Really like that, wasn't enough, but acts as an obsession with male bodies. As a male by value. There's a calendar just behind your head. That Monica makes for me my favorite male bodies every year yeah, it's pretty good luck. I love muscle. That
the time or I'm like this guy has a real masculine, but of course I loved bad boys when I was younger, because that was hyper masculine too, but you start working out and I'm just he is. I want to know if there was a decision where you're like I'm gonna, get Jack. What would happen there? What I mean in your New York, Ass Elan Journey, I was going to be very very vile- is shot by my Father in that story,
and it was a simple thing of saying you know. We know that tall folks, folks getting folks to folks can survive gunshots. But in a two hour story I didn't want there to be. I thought anything I could do to help us be able to be as violent as possible haha to just feel that you're talking about somebody sturdy body by thoughts and just try to straighten up that. I feel more confident in that and not think about it more. You know now it's very common people find a reason to change their bodies for roles and and so on sometimes very organically, to nature the thing, and sometimes I guess just do it I'll I've done it just do it to have an excuse, but whatever gets here today. So then it was quite experience.
Doing that, because I was always kind of naturally lean up until that point yeah. You look just like a surfer. It look like it was clear that you served. I was a lanky guy and in fact, had a difficult time putting weight on so you know you drink in all these shakes full of amino acids and whatever weight, gain powders and eaten seven times a day and going to the gym. Yeah, it was quite a ride, but you ve. Never let it go. I've monitored your body as I do most male bodies and I've watched over the years and in his sedated ribs Binge exercise. Ok, you caught me I'll alike. Now my slug I've been between lying flying around the country pop up these covered sites and post production on a movie I had shot before it I've you know been sitting on aeroplanes within ninety five masks and in talking to people in masks and in driving to the next place
the fast food and then coming back to an edit room and puffing puffin and eaten crap. Surely you got me a little bit in the zoning day, because my new bride is got me started on a clans and la leads. To the beginning of exercising again, but I have always been able to recover pretty fast. Now I think there's that thing you did it when you are young, you know you have that kind of muscle. Memory can get back into some kind of shape. I great by the way, your bride, you know she lived at my house I know that this is a rare that I interviewed someone whose new wife lived at my house luminous Sweden's person to see, as she Isn t Yes, you lately live downstairs below us and I was like you can live as long as you want as long as long as you don't wake up before eight a dot m ever and wake me up we're to go
Did she violate ever known or not? She was I. I don't have a single memory of her disturbing me in any way, which is easy to do ass, a pretty good sleep. Ok, now to other obsessions you seem to share at least are maybe don't don't but obviously into the wild, was so so tremendous me what what? What what humongous directory accomplishment- and I love crack our. I love crack. How, in a way that I haven't read fiction virtually sense. I discovered crack our thirteen years ago, like I tried ago, like I tried to read Lolita awhile ago, my everyone loves us, but let me is interesting. This then- and I just can't do it so, do you of crack, our view read all his books, if you did, you become friends with him in that process,
yeah very much so and and like you, I got, you know where the there was this sort of a family of writers that came up in non fiction, sort of experience of journalists like crack. Our Sebastian younger and- and I very much got off fiction reading that stuff, because it was kind of high reality and also typically fused with some kind of a as great a passion is any fiction might have in terms of the pursuit of the storytelling and within the wild in particular, because it had to do again with something it. When we talk about Bukovsky, the kind of familiar manifest differently and all of us, but there is a wonder lust in us, and I think that, even if, for some people it's a metaphor of it and in others it literally to get
Stan awhile and that goes beyond. You know the kind of rights of passages man, that's a rights, a passage is human beings, and you see with wild I've known as many men and women who have some to to their demise of pursuits that story in ways you thought you might have seen recently that they took the bus away from the river where it had been because one more group it made a kind of pilgrimage and I lost their lives, doing it is very unpredictable and it seems a fairly benign area. But Alaska, with its permafrost? And it's my drops in this river. She really never know whether there one mile ahead of you saved Cross Una yeah. Now what I connected to in that book, I guess I'll, ask you: if you do, is the poorest suit of identity. I have to imagine you ve been on a complicated search for identity, as most people are. I certainly have
then and having a romantic sense of what that identity is? Is like it's? What I'll get you to move across the country? and it also kill you and it's like learning to recognize it confronted exploit what's great about it. Try to minimize the shitty part of it Did you relate to that part of his story of just like? I have to be so extreme? I gotta do something. Could you relate to that desire Lastly, I think that within any kind of wanderlust within any kind of romantic adventure, some of us a born with a level of caution, gene that others are not, and so sometimes you apply. Very intelligent people won't apply because they don't really have it right and other people will be, let's let's say it just dumb about it, the idea and not respect
to what they're taking on enough I've always had a kind of I'd start with a kind of survival gene and then, when I I'll die was pushing some beyond that which I could know, then I would know it before. I pushed it's the right, is in probably that I haven't becoming a pilot what we to fly helicopters. But my understanding of helicopters from most pilots, its those that are fixed wing pilots. First it takes, you seem to have the deepest level of aerodynamic understanding. When become a pilot of a helicopter, and I knew I would have to skip the fixed wing part because it just kind of bored me. Do I really tedious right? I gave it a shot and my goes to fucking, tedious. I thought I'd be like now watching this fuckin dial them that dial it it's not for me,
kind of like believing the scientists. If I believe the pilots that you're a beer, better helicopter pilot, if you ve blown fixed wing and I'm not gonna fly VIC swing, then I can fly Ralph lie in them. I like to fly with good pilot. I'm actually really impressed the Eu no. The line that you know that you shouldn't fly helicopters, because you who have lived a life for people, probably don't say No. Do you very much. Is my guess all! That's a good point. So I think it's extra impressive that you can say: do yourself would let you why how certainly yeah well guess I take it back? I did fly. My son took lessons for awhile. Remove! that we wish it? He was in the movie, the we shot in South Africa and at one point, over the car hurried desert. I was asked if I wanted to take the controls he had been flying
for about an hour with a pilot on the dual control system cause. He was still new at it, but he was lioness prettiest areas smooth for about an hour, my son Hopper, what an and they said come on just so he and I switch seeds and it was I'm gonna, tell you liberal it was less than to sack by the time they went. The controls back- and I thought I was on our way to death- is very sensitive. Those things you know a very small moving the mouse of the joystick and a lot happens in that fur, and- and I may not happen- really didn't you basic. Confirm what I think my I've I've flown and a helicopter enough in all ages stare at the pilot. Now my I've got this. I know exactly what to do and we have a debate on here all the time he thinks he can fly a plain if he needed to end,
and if they come into the cabin- and I say someone's gotta land, this plain and there's no pilots on board. I think I'm a great candidate cause, I'm I'm cocky and that's virtually. What you need is confidence. I think it's one of the big elements Let us put it this way if you're on a single engine plain, and you got one pilot, it's not you and that pilot as a massive heart attack you might as well be able to tell yourself you can do it it, goes on. You have only one million shot down two million. There is no real snags here. You're gonna die you my luggage, bided bland, this plain avatar knowing ones. Limitations is a valuable tool set
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Are you you were on stern the other day and I doubt you care, but I do what a fool Can amazing interview, I call Monica immediately- and I was like you- must listen to this interview immediately and she did and she's like. Oh, my god he's one of its most guys in the world. The air was so a great interview, you're, so articular. I dont even know that our I've heard you like lay down like that. It was really really impressive in. I guess I shock to know because again, This is all projection. This is all mired in my own baggage, but I've seen you over the years. Like Katrina happens, I turn on my CNN in see what an update is in your fucking, Robo Bureau help someone the water, I'm left guess seen how this happened right. Did you read the Pat Tillman crack our, but yes, women, folk Laurie yes now, prior to reading that book, all I need
was an nfl player. Quit at Vienna fell to go, join the army and my first two thoughts were a either this guy's like crazy Christian, and it's like some kind of christian crusade or be he's done something so bad that he feels like he has to atone for that? He has quit the NFL, and then I read this book and I'm comply Philly fucking wrong in the guy was justice unicorn of it, angrily and unlike blown away by who he is. But after reading the book there have been times turn on the tv and I've seen you in a robot, and I thought what the fuck is he doing there is this like attic. Do shit? like I'm at home, for. I am, and I M getting involved the map and I can and I'm gonna and that's my my bad gas at it. In the same way, I was judgmental Tillman knowing nothing about him. But I think, when I heard what you ve done with core I was like no no, I have him wrong too. I dont know what his motivation is hearing corps in the success of it.
New, mobilizing thousands of people on you getting more corona test done than most municipalities, I'm like them. Oh he. This motherfucker went to Haiti and he figured something now and now he's he's scaling it. It's really impressive, and I guess I'm I'm wondering how you explain your weird motivation to end up in a rowboat twelve hours after the footage starts, and how does it lead to Haiti or Katrina was the baptism away, because I sat around watching the news for four days. Just waiting to see the cavalry come in rye and seeing that it wasn't and then kind of each and around something's wrong here and then you know once I had a thought, because I no New Orleans pretty well spent job, a good section of the beer previous to the hurricane there and new alot of on new my way around, so I started putting out some calls kind of feeling out what it would be.
To go. There would would one be in the way. Right right. You know, government response and sore Then there was another day and there were after. I had gotten a call from a friend who had fled their right before the hurricane and and kind of affirming to me that you know, if you feel like you can do something you should go in. I could be an aim, but his way its chaos and one up. Two things I came away with was that we would like to think that, in the best of circumstances, government can really cover systems,
but you know when a government of by and for the people people got to play, and you know what we don't have. What we should have is beano course of a civilian volunteers of responses in all lanes and in all the sectors of response and preparedness, and we don't have that. We can't pretend that we thought we did when somebody does hurricanes. They owe the government's not taking care of it. Now, in the case of Katrina, as in the case of Covid, nineteen government response by and large has been employed, I mean virtually absent at the wheel. That said with it in perfect.
What's you would still need bodies, more bodies involved, so I went and was able to join up with a couple of people that I knew and we were able to get a boat and in the first day we brought forty people out of the water of central city area, and so when Haiti happened, it was sore the same thing at first, where you have that first moment and I've never been to Haiti, and so out was its own dynamic but Europe. Part of this. Is I had the time I could pay for the flight at the luxury of those basic things, and so I called some of the people who work with the New Orleans. Some people I had met the aftermath of that and we were pretty quickly able to mobilise a group of about thirty people to get there and I'm a guess about the fifth day after the earthquake and we landed with The idea we'd have enough resources
to make sure we weren't taken anybody else's we'd have several doctors with us? Bunch of to one degree or another experienced at least hardy people willing to get in there and we find a dino broken down house or something to camp out at which is what we did for the few first few days with the main intention being that I had been in touch with Paul farmer and kind of legendary Harvard Fellow Doctor who started partners in health in Haiti, and he told me that what was needed were three hundred and fifty thousand. Vials of morphine and me just for the dramatic surgeries and so on, an amputated. You had setting our suitcase right funny thing I got, my law is always made it. I always make the job The inner an actor in Hollywood knows where to get narcotics but not at all, got it
but I was able to get Hugo Chavez to commit to three hundred fifty thousand miles to be flown into his embassy with the assurance that we with our rented pickup truck, would pick him up in delivering the trauma centres and so on. So the plan was to be there a couple of weeks and just who shall that morphine ketamine up I once was there. I saw the disk function of Ngos, the dysfunctional a lot of what was going on with the U N clusters system. Certainly the you know that the government of Haiti was brought to its knees at tat moment. All of its ministries had collapsed into pancakes. Most of its most committed people were killed in the first ten seconds because they are the ones who stay past three or four o clock in the offices and were the ones that were killed. We very quickly embedded with: U S, troops over there in twenty two thousand years troops and had a kind of
expedient guide into how to do the immediate disaster response, and there was also a kind of code of compassion. Am I don't, I think, in the whole three months, the d, the twenty two thousand troops, were there and keeping in mind that the haitian people Now this was the separation. By one day they all lost somebody and, with all of their resources, gone there business- the numbers our or was it like? A hundred eighty thousand people died or some outrageous like it that around two hundred and fifty how about I there were killed in a country at that time, only ten million Sochi, it's a huge calamity, and I you know with people's emotions being is rise. They were is rise, they were their desperation, their needs, the United States military didn't but flow. Sure you can imagine how they were sometimes and how they were sometimes treated, but they were all
so ordered to keep their weapons shouldered their helmets off their glasses off to be a soft posture, human presence and to expect to at times be berated and over, time there was an enormous amount of binding that happened with the military and the haitian people that we saw we thought while we could work, like that, and there may be grow it in some ways that the military is restricted from growing it in one, and also we be stay longer. So I guess reverse engineering. In answer to your question about how it all happened, the party really mentioning is, I was drawn up. People, be they in the military or the NGO World who became men tours and then We started moving out into the United States in the Bahamas on Hurricane response building it out rebranding. There organization into what is now core and and with that, then we we went into the covert test,
as well as maintaining operations and all other regions covered testing got its own increase bill shot in the arm initially by grants from Iraq Fellow Foundation in California, and then Jack Dorsey, with his amazing in excess, billion dollar commitment worldwide to fight covered and in many out of the box ways, and he came in Cuba, they now with thirty million dollars and we haven't gotten any money from governments. Money we ve gone were from very few private sector groups and then individuals and without without Dorsey, be no core. Where would people go if they wanted to personally Donnie? Is there like a website or something yeah corresponds dot. Org core response die, org, but about the way we are we get about, thousand Republicans and Democrats work in these terms in lots all over this country, giving
they're all and they need all of our support at great risk. Do, let's add it's it's not without risks, and then, on top of that You want to make sure that people are getting clear messaging, for example, if you live in degeneration home one or the other since on core, if you get positive and I think communities need to purchase wedding. This we know one organisation can do at all what, whether its, community leaders or pastors and community. Where people understand ok, my cousin Johnny has a garage down there. We ve made a comfortable corner of someone in our house. Get sick, Johnny's cool without one, get windows open and we can bring food. They got their fourteen days but backup plans and communities- and this is the messaging- that's not getting out their cause. It's it's really kind of seven, eight simple necessary steps to be ready but on the other end of it. You know if we
what to do- which I believe we should do- is a nation wide total shut down? Why, because it's the right message, not because every place needs it as much. The other, but we all need it together. We need this to be an solidarity dirty and that attrition. I know I speak from privilege. I know a lot of people go through Hell, but my fear is that they're gonna go through much longer that hell. If we don't get this thing quashed but there is no reason to do that until the defence production ACT has been super simulated and we know we're gonna. Have the people either tat everything necessary. So everyone really gets and buys in deep politicize. Is it and yes says at a warm we're, gonna win it now. You I mean that seems to be wanted bigger hurdles is like there's very little consensus, or there is consensus but its not being communicated s consensus. It's like he just keep hearing such different things. It's hot to figure out what one you want to bet on yeah,
look at human nature once the believe it's over, it's going be fine. So if you get excuse to feel that way. That's what they're going to do and that's why we ve got this gigantic. Rising community spread What also I gotta say I'll just set it on here on record. I actually weirdly related a lot, although I did the right thing at all times I quarantine and then I mask inviolable. I get tested, relax, I'm shooting! I relate. To the distrust of the government are related to the premise at the beginning was look, we're all gonna get this. It's gonna take eighteen months to get a vaccine, but what we have to do is flat MC curve, so we don't overwhelm the medical system and, as I got that makes great son. I'm in then it became clear that we hadn't overrun the medical system. I needed a new premise and I wasn't given a new premise and I started feeling like I'll give you the examples like my mom was like we're moving in with this guy okay, why? What we're going to be so happy, they're, okay, great and then we're there and I
whatever everyone's miserable. Why are we still here and there was no backup explanation- is so that is my own person bag. It so to me, just was very reminiscent of a trusting adults in they lie do, and I just have to trust you and I have Believe me when I'm sorry, I have a bad track record of trusting people and going along with it. So I very much understood the emotional component for a big section of the country that has had shady fuckin adults in their childhood and who had shady step parents, indeed not up for trust. Can people edit their expense? Now with all that said, I I said all that out loud on here met multiple times and I said, and I got to do the very best thing. Regardless of those feet, and I ve done the very best thing and I'm gonna continued to do the best thing and I just have to do because I have some modicum of ethics yeah, I'm There's another rule of thumb in this that we can begin to common sense can observe it
for as we know, some hospital systems were truly overrun. We lost a lot of frontier workers and certainly the nursing home we're a major head all over the country, but the window it's true that as imperfect as are the rest of us so a but what really bit. The only thing that's been imperfect is somebody good news that they wanted to pass on, the bad news has been pretty dead on every time and has borne out. And what they tell us now and what I believe deeply is that, but for an incredible sea change between now and the fall when people start having flew and whooping cough and they believe they ve got covered and the panic is not only their health but that unemployment stopped yesterday that people is not going to come through that life as we knew it may never come back and then hospitals
Systems get over run because people are these anti backs. Selfish now the religion of the selfish period? So you know, I think that when we as core a lot of our discussions start in the fall and try to work backwards as they did. We do all we can do before that time. When flew season starts because it's not just getting the flu, it's also that it it's cold or places and people start to stay inside with each other more and you know the again so far the scientists have been pretty dead on with their concerns. This way- and I think there's also these catch phrases like fearmongering, well how bout brave monetary being brave enough to listen to science. Look at me. I say we're going get through it anyway: yeah ignoring its, not the bravest, more
the pic. If you know, if you're not scared of both what's happening economically and health wise with this pandemic, LINEAR did just asleep at the wheel. We get so upset women got a tangible, active shooter. This active shooter has killed more than all active shooting scenarios? all wars, since Vietnam, american deaths and too Vietnam alone, was a ten year accumulation of bodies. In five months we well beat that yeah yeah. Well, that gets ended a hiccup of of human thinking like it, we have such out waited reactions to relatively few deaths if they come from an area that we find it. Unacceptable right in and for some reason there, some level of acceptance with people dying of illness, but if it's, if it's a terrorist,
let spend a trillion dollars on it. There's a mental hiccup. We stop valuing each death equally and we are or elevating some of the debts to this very disproportionate reaction. Yet as a kind of reflective version of of some kind of tactile glory in all. We must stop this bad guy. And it really is a transparency of a great flaw of our kind of basic carrying that shouldn't be bad. He's done something that's easy: the hate, how you hate a virus, you just right rights just is just bad- has to be stopped, and you know when you did when you get into a lot of these, you know even criminal acts and you get to. No, where there were looking to punish the punished. It's really. How do we fix this thing and can it be as important as fixing
Somebody is walking around with a rifle downtown and shooting people a parking lot or school yeah. How many tests of you guys admitted at this point over a million test which is over one fiftieth of the total tests in the country. Oh, my gosh, okay, so, Inter personally, for you self esteem, wise means clear, you said it was times where you didn't want act anymore. I remember lean broken hearted by that and not understanding that. But does your self esteem require? You know that you feed it other things every day. I think that I am either in fatigue or purpose. If I've got purpose, I got no fatigue otherwise, You know about the year the beasts of the world get to me: you're unexpected, like They me you and they talked you do get the reaction of oh you're, not what I expected. You know a girl
Probably we all do a little get there. If wherein the public in any way is funny. I did a talk with South Myers earlier today. I'd never met him and he did set me up a thing that he did a kind of skin on Saturday Night live worry, he played me and he was apologizing because he said gushing you not what I expected, because the way play me was humorless itself righteous and I said I kind of know that guy eyes I saw it is as accurate to certain moments of you know we get certain bubbles
are you monsieur le Howard Stern, show up at five o clock in the morning, if you're in California here you're? Not so I don't remember that interview at all now argue day and you really nice talk, but I was in that kind of may really late into about smoking volume like man, I did not get up at five to remind our shitty, smoking I think I've only had one cigarette. While we've been talkin yeah, you should kill as many darts as you can. I'm on my second pack lip of Copenhagen and I'm quitting September. First, just in case you're worried all fucking, nicotine man, it's such a good drug, but all the delivery systems are terrible. I want to talk about your book and I'm trying to get it out to you and I'm feeling some reluctance in that's to be expected, but I'm really interested in you recognizes, the greatest actor of your generation of our generation. You, heroes and or I'm assuming but here was like Nicholson, who clearly had some special relationship right. You mean he? U directed him three,
times that I dont know than anyone else's had that honour really- and I think we pry agree right- he's the fuckin peak of avarice Naturally they broke down old gap and again it's all projection. I'm just wondering how similar we are. I'm an approval junkie, I'm an approval junkie to end that's my first addiction, probably once you have Nicholson's approval does everything shatter is in danger to have Nicholson's approval like who's next, who could we search out for validation once you Nicholson's, I dont know I almost feel like you. I would have to find a new source of fuel in life approval. You know it it's funny how my own experience with that is. Maybe another way of thinking about it, but you know most of what we see in I'm aside and again in this Michael Jordan thing having to do with the approval of the Father TAT, in a very lucky club myself. My brothers, we had a very poor. Father known
corner was famous for and you go your own way kid in our needs? can I hadda of faith that it was gonna. Take us we want to go on was had a real job, Hand based on that? I think I have the same father, complex yeah. Certainly I wanted is respected. I appreciate moments when he took pride and something that I did, but There was never that kind of depletion that made me feel like I had to fight for it. Yeah. Ok, great! So that's a huge difference. Now, there's also this very masculine pursuit your life, so I'm blaming mine, I know dad. How do I get male approval Oh really, a motorcycle amen. Get me the motorcycle jump that thing on their get in that fight signed me up. I just want you guys, go you're, a man, that's how I end up with all these dumb Hobbes and bad habits, and I wonder, What is your drive towards danger and conventional masculinity? Not that it is an ongoing but
Certainly when were in art later teens there's a big seller nation should that some of that chemical right yeah, but there's HANS, appealing it that onion, if it's not about the drive to fulfil something Then it's a drive to understand where certain parts you come from nancy- always in that. You know what I think that as one gets older, then pretty. Typically, you got to need to reflect on that more because there's that last bit of getting human that you gotta do that who knows maybe the hardest debt
shedding a lot of stuff you relied on in private yeah, and I think that our children pushed out of us the intimate relationships in O. A bizarre said I just got married and lay living. Oh certainly pushes stuff to the surface. That has to be understood and permitted me you'd, better at stuff, better person and better communicator. So I think probably the most sustained war pitch of which starts in our late teens is the pride we take and bull shit that we haven't quite shed. The kind of the agreements that were most Fonda well, maybe that we think define us right on some level like its define us until they start to embarrasses yeah, yeah yeah this line and that their stories, is it tell that I thought maybe the king of any party and then I've tried a couple of em out
five years on my our own aids. That story I probably tried one of them out five days ago. We all those stones, but I will say, however, when I heard you and stern, and also like your academy award speech, there's been a few moments right thought to myself. I would expect you to be in in recovery or so then you have some self awareness, which is pretty unique, your ability. On that? You ve in hard the route for or that you have taken yourself very seriously at times. Are all these things that you seem to kind of effortlessly unload and it doesn't seem to have any shame attached to it which to me generally, I also see it would like recovery. That's generally, where people get too, I guess I did all this. I and all this I said sorry when it could- and that's me I just wonder where that comes modest intuitively of all their self aware. You do therapy, nothing over the years. Under a fair amount of therapy- started off kind of tomato therapy and usually by
the courts and then by relationship. So you know what there was an ultimatum either with an it took a wilder. You know find people who I felt, that kind of Chester respect of doing that kind of stuff the bit by bit people merge and then I got very interested in it by interested, I don't mean just intellectually interested. I mean I've got sold it's kind of how you use it. If I didn't take all- what they had to offer. I walk away forever lessons that were really significant and things that you just subconsciously start pray. The thing was that the muzzle memory rights, like all of a sudden you in the end the benefits the com, in the end. All of that. So I think that it is combination of doing therapy and then practising that there be and like most things back slides, and so you know you china- to kick yourself in the head to harden get on the day, but you know again partly nor
were bought into this idea that Bob when work. This public, like in the movies things like this, that that you owed anything other than did you work well, I never bought into this. It goes with the territory so because of that I never felt any additional shame, but I felt additional awareness at times totally hear you. I agree. There is no doubt Oh it's all what you're comfortable with. I guess it just goes with the territory that people fall in love with you. People want, but they want you to be what they were that's true! I want you to be identical to make. As I looked up to you, then we're learning we were not. At have delivered to tuned. For you stare, We are supported by native now. I believe performance matters of wanting to make the switch to more natural.
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Ryan dot com, slashed acts and promo. Go ok, Bonnie sings Jimmy Crack Horn. So we have me from Bradley and I read the thing you about how much I was awesome- and I called him like this- is crazy- that he rough this thing about here we go. Or bodies. Now on, I your buddies. What's he like any said? Well, he has the best bullshit detector out of any one of ever met, so he's a typo guy. If you're just dead honest with him, he'll, like you, I think that's his assessment of you is any objections over now. That the only thing I don't like is being bullshit everything by May. He wants me: and how entertaining the bullshit has begun in the all. I'm always looking for someone hoods true intention to a fault, so Bob Honey sings Jimmy. Corn? What you need to know really quick is that I'm dyslexic, I did not learn to read a fifth grade at the fact that I fell in love with reading. It was because Bukowski was so simple for me to read. That was the gateway to bunch of other stuff, and in that
graduated too much harder things, but when I tried to read this book with my eyes theirs, oh many, big words in it that I couldn't both recognised words on the page and then through the right rolodex in my head of what the word was say it out loud and then keep track of what was being said, So then I got an audio. I listened to your book twice on audio, because I really I really genuinely wanted to get it and I got to say something did happen in my second go round. I think my brain was so busy trying to put your book into a compartment. I was comfortable with I guess I enter employment. Oh he love because guided because he's gonna be Hemingway, ask is going to be simple, not gonna be metaphor: both can be literal rights or right out again, in my own case, a different thing that I was expecting and then again trying to putting in this box. The second go around I have stopped doing. Rights can like I stopped
when to figure out the end of the movie and I can just enjoy the movie now I found myself laughing hysterically at Bob's acid trip and I think, a summit ex drug attic. There are some details in there that were so fun for me, one being that Bob was repeatedly hearing and and saw with my own eyes an elevator door open shifting repeatedly out like this is such a specific acid. They, like you, gotta beyond the inside, to appreciate that then the fact that its reveal that drug trip lasted thirty five hours. I was like this is such a specific number. Thirty five hours, it's like a Seinfeld selection of words. It's that specific in it's fucking, perfect. Thirty, four is not the right number. Thirty! Six is not the right number. Thirty. Five is the perfect number for a seven hits of acid trip, and I was laughing hysterically, my wife and I were driving to Malibu and I'll listen to it in the car, and then I started to think of your booking in different ways, and I was like
My first thought was I'm getting it. It's Susie in its doktor seuss for adults, there's a playfulness in and there's a doctor Susan S right. And then that led me to there's a hunter as Thompson s too. You know so I gotta say on the second go round. I felt like I clicked in to your mode Oh there's so much a liberation. There's all this playful business going on It's not linear in any way right grasping at. What's going on a lot of the time and then, once again I stop trafficking to do that in just listen. I found a very enjoyable and I found a lot of a commentary, the political commentary stuff I very much identify with- and I guess I don't know if you do, but pardon me, desires to be Bob Honey. I want to acts without any fear of repercussions
And I, like you, I am in a position where, when I act more than one person's watching, so I I to think a lot about how I act and I'm trying to act is genuinely as I can knowing there will be followed, and I have two way how much fall- I'm willing to deal with over something. And I imagine you're in that position times ten and was there some cathartic joe? in creating a character that had zero regard for that aspect of life in twenty twenty here. We give you a brake on one thing. I had done Annabelle on the first book on Bob Heritage, is do stuff I didn't like it at all and they agreed to take it off. When the I recorded myself- and I thought I did- is the terrible job and then never did do inaudible on the first book. The second book, the one that you listen to sing democratic corn
is easier to understand, had yet got to have the first one, but yes, exactly what you're saying What kind of like the gloves were completely taken off? I colonel lavished in the idea that I was gonna write this thing so that, if someone would never expect someone to or not to die then and look up the words because God knows: do you know because of the liberation of it. It got his asked reviews from great writers? It got the worst reviews of every credit. But there was just droid bye, bye, Bye critics, which I came, be really exhilarated by tell me how worse Kaweah great tipper of anyone this war, anybody who would assume
to be annoyed by what they thought I was. This would be fodder for short, They take your clothes off and make judgements on what this was. And what do you, of language was. I will tell that it was a direct assault and the lack of use of language that I feel is coming from the so called academic community. In many cases Caroline in the fact that we're both liberal progressives and we're also nervous about the censorship that's happening in academia. Are we are we aligned in that? Oh yeah yeah, so we actually, I can't see if I can see it from here, but I got a reviews like shut up, ten just shut up. You hear that didn't want to have it, whereas these really significant authors,
into it with an openness to what it might be. The language is its own saw. The doktor seriousness of it is its own us It's nice stop rhyming at me. Stop that made me laugh and right right right. If you don't kind of laugh at the torture of the style, then you're not gonna, get the style and gonna. Please you and so it s kind of was this character. I could apply things some of which I had direct experience with and just exam. You re or color them anyway. I wanted and just ride this guy's steady, clear, if not off, mind charger. Let's try this head on a minute. Yes, I had a blast red nose books. I just had a blast riding and- and I do think in some ways that they are
may be better served audible, the actor who did the second book. I think that a real good job, the eye did you know, I didn't give him a lot of a lotta guidance and it certainly would seem the kind of, a writing that would take a lotta guidance for that also, Let me know that it's there to be understood if you wanna, he had a in afforded you to do it and, as you know, I appreciate you do by listening to a twice, and I think the way described is correct, but I am I'd like to the same fellow do the first one, so it remains for those who want to come to. Yeah, yeah yeah. These are clue base books also in other words, I wouldn't say: do you know these are totally understandable conversation. It takes somebody, I suppose, who is not dependent on people deciding I'm going to take this. On till I get it. That would be a lot too. SK right, but for anyone who did it's there to be found,
kind of the thing with screen when you're right, I'm every sentence: you're right could cost catch another hundred thousand dollars to produce when I'm reading it. I was thinking that you're so limited when you're writing and you note the bucks going to stop with you right, you're going to have to be there with twenty nine days of shooting and you got to figure out how to do it. So you don't you don't paint your into a corner when you're writing a screenplay that you know you're gonna. To deal with, but you can do any fuckin thing dig could be an Mars in assessing and who cares right like. I have to imagine that the freedom of that is really appealing to me. Yeah, like I think that, as a reaction to doing a lot of years movies and and finally the inner being, blood on that responsibility of riding into more money and more money. Are you write, write anything you want on the printed page and then cost anymore to print yeah? That was a great thing speaking the also. I should say the more I mean I've seen it when it first came out, but jerk.
I've had to go back and watch a three or four times area, because because it is so much of what we experience every day and I thought put it in a kind of humorous contacts made sense, and yet when I saw the accuracy of the first time I remember thinking we are so close. To being there. When I saw the next three times, I had that really uncomfortable feeling. Here we are does it have the future yeah yeah, and I got to say in others, some Robert Duval said once about acting, you know it says that the imitation. Most actors have your very clearly a very bright guy is that they let their intelligence show when they're supposed to go under when the character is under.
You did not let your entire at. Ah now you all day for better or puts it was painfully stupid I mean early and it becomes very human because you really feel unable to help that person as a really gracious assessment of it. Yet I will never see that movie you I see that movie, it's a classic performance, it's really flawless and shocking, and any as is almost saddening, because it's become a commentary on a real thing. Now, oh yeah, president, macho when you're watching it you're. Like I mean this is great. This is an eleven. This could never happen and then you're like net and take away muscles than its President Camacho, until November, at least a night as young, as I thought of, talking to you, I was like I'm gonna bring in so much shit to this. And I was thinking out- I ever met you in real life.
Be normal. As I have been, to do, but in my subconscious, I would be seeing you punch out a photographer, see. You're alchemy nor my head see the air stream. He lived in after your house burned down just all this stuff. You ve been with me for Thirty, eight and forty five years, and surely most people you meet have the same thing going on in their subconscious, and I just wonder I have some experience with it, but not at all. What you have, I just wonder, is it? Is it incredibly isolating your spidey senses are fucking sharp and I can tell you can find is it is it isolating? While? I would argue that you know you're a very unguarded, very bright guy, very generous. I and You have had your own journey and the Euro talents that that I would I have my own things going on about just
an interesting you at the same time? I think it's isolating when people hide things its isolating especially when they things that the feel presence of, but I think that when when people are being basically here for our common humanity, its refreshing, the doktor somebody who open and curious about stuff. I like to think I'm too, So I'll tell you that I'm dying for your approval, but I got it at ten minutes ago, so the rest of my week is going to be fucking with fire last question: did you go to California after you read under the banner yeah had been there a few times before it was while we were shooting into the wild we weren't in Colorado, say yeah yeah yeah. We we would. We actually went in inner scout trips a couple of times and watched as they put a couple. Cuba is behind us following us. I Jeff's was still on the run at that time and bear their there. It's a view
very interesting community, the you know when you see the Scientology, also in the sense of the brokering of religious rights and so on in kind of debunked fraud schemes yeah, it's really some yeah, my wife and I read that at the same time as the last time we read a book together and we put it down- and I was like you I gotTa Colorado City right now and she's, a key health. That's a couple and we drove straight there got follow. Like, you said for an hour, went to the little cafe they had had a piece of Pio, certainly poisoned why, because everyone was on highlights that we were there, they were not on high highly because they knew who either of us her. They certainly have. No clue wasn't that I was very surreal, like children of the court Finally, I am you know it's almost like inherent parameters, because with him a hundred miles of Colorado city. Almost everything this built is built by their construction contracts
so rise it than the diner chatting about. Oh we're on our way to Colorado City somebody's here and it's while its wild. Ok, I have a thousand more questions, but I'm gonna. Let you go such pleasure talking to himself This happened you'll just about here, give our love to Leyla and Congrats. I will, while dominion persons in reality, as soon as get this being disarmed right now to a helicopter, My favorite part of the show the fact checked, with my soul maiden Monica Batman, wow wow, wow wow, while we're being tested right now, there's lights in the attic. It's it's a above a hundred degrees, and here I nine p m. So dark it's dark. It's hot is Haiti's yap,
but here we are. How could we not come in here and chat about shown pen we had to it's a must, but do until people what happened. I do not want to help me Well, let me tell you I'm a little conflicted about it. I will I will, but I gotta say I do not want to get in the habit of getting attention for being injured. You know my name you're not like I love attention, I'm an attention who were here in approval junkie, so I just I hesitate in getting attention for being harked causes. I think it's a bad pattern to be an I dont think year at risk. Exploiting and I've never experience out from you. So I think you can tell people what happened. If you want ok, I was passing six guys at Sonoma Race Way. I call a motorcycle and I was breaking very very hard hard enough that the back we'll was off the ground for a good guess hundred yards and then some turned in as they had the right to. I was totally at blame. I thought I would be the slide in between, but someone turned in
and I was already under full breaking. I couldn't go anywhere. I clip their bumper. And then I went over the handlebars and Lena pretty hard and out first hum of revenge on the tree It was a little demoralising. It was a bummer and then side, no yelled thoroughly yelled at by the track, grew overnight enough track soon enough, what does that mean? Well, the rules are with good reason that you should, with second crash, get off the track. Freedom. It hit by me, but my model God landed in the middle of this turn and the tyres in the black part of the motorcycle. Seeing the oncoming writers and was very nervous and we're going to see it, and I just couldn't live at the guilt of someone tiburon my motorcycle went tax. So I was, I was standing next to it, but I'm very safe spot in just waving my arm, so people could see it and then so that the define folks that work at the track just came and really let me have it. There
you know they re scared, free. You yeah. I guess that was what was probably feeling it, but they really. Let me have it and I was too injured to really object. So I just took it on the chin. Send the pits for about an hour and a half ice. My shoulder that's what was really hurting in my hand a little bit and then I went back out for two sessions and then it was just too painful by the end of it. So I then got in the car and I RO back from Sonoma to allay, which is about five miles and then walk up today. We wish you- and I and my mom and the girls went to deltas little graduation for her release school covert styles. Whoever was only five of us there, we had mass time, you feel obligated to say we're means. I fear and I got to appoint while we were there that I thought you know. I really should go. Get this checked out at the hospital, so I've been at the hospital for seven hours all day and the
final tally with some four broken ribs, the clavichord broken in three places and I need surgery and then I broke my hand that I had broke a couple months ago, but good news. I broke three of those met it or carpet, I guess herbal in those held up. Doesn't those break banana fingers are in fact new style? Yes and then the fourth my pinky met a carbon. It broke, sue, not bad motorcycle accident as what happen does we're out the earlier, I'm so sorry that happen. That's ok, I feel very bad. About why, while all adjust its inconvenient. For everyone, I'm sure it scares everyone, sure you and Kristen were scared, and you know I feel guilty about that. What I don't like when you we had Pastrana on you said you knows all selfish people care about you that you have this hobby and thank you James me.
Engagement, but I got a guy. I know you didn't jigs may adopt if you're right on the track long enough, you're gonna go now. I don't want you to feel guilty that people care about you. People are allowed to care about you and If you feel guilty that makes us feel guilty, you feel so bad cycle and people care about you and that's allowed for years. Why feel guilty? It's not like. I was sitting on a stop and someone re me and I got hurt- you knows actively in something danger ya. I think, because it's a reckless hobby, I feel guilty that people have to have the emotional concern about me. You know, I think it's Kate. I feel a little guilty about I you know. I know I look at it. I I'll stop doing that part Giang, Hu Jia, and what about the motorcycle power will get back to that? Well, man. I don't think I'm gonna quit, but I think-
I'd, be willing to quit for the remainder of twenty twenty Kay. Were you ever something, maybe substantial that ok well circle back circle back? What will your market here and then we just have to talk about champagne, real, quick? What a tree? What a tree very, very flattered. You wanna do the Shell farm and he loves it. He Accra see. That was my blog. I almost wasn't digesting it when it was over. You go, you know, champagne just said, you're, a good actor and outside that is what happened kind of like that, but I wanna be crazy. You have to take what a compliment from the best actor. Why do you feel pretty darn nice that I'm glad you could take it? Am I too have a bad habit avoid, assuming that everyone is motivated similarly inches most of it.
Times for him. I guess we're way off you raise. Is it all right now, not always thirty unique person he is and as motivations are very interesting and I can't relate to them in a neat way. Like he's gaze, standing your mind of yours. Now these possibilities. Well, I adore him. Yeah When the interview ended, you go Oh I'd Miriam here and there Miriam one. Second yeah I remember now. I have two up my data age on my profile. So if anyone doesn't remember her rich, moldavian profile had to include man in ban will obviously, which makes total sense banana like a Matt Damon. So what would add that brought you to like fifty year in that's like ok you're pushing it, but it made total sense, I mean you got include those guys yes and then
We saw once upon a time answer in Hollywood. Eneugh panicked rightly so, oh, my god, I'm not even including, but not include, Brad Pitt. Am I dating range? Yes, it would be ridiculous to not include him here and then now after sham penny, just eat turned sixty like the few days after We interviewed ah ha, you now got a push to sixty who are any one where there is better again. You ve been a while our bee jia. If we interview hurry, you might change, I might have to fly, I really respect you. I really do it's so great. You noted tells me you're, not gonna, let the pressures well. This should surprise me, don't succumb to peer pressure, but you're, not gonna. Let society conventions stand in the way of love for you, I'm not
Now. Here's if you want to marry Sean was an already married, a Leyla who we like Ally, alot she's, beautiful, wonderful person, but if, if she were and anyone to marry him. I guess I would be so. Part of that I want to hang out with you too, of course, but I am I'm worried about what happens when you're a widow at a very young age. I see that, but I would rather whether some pretty stars O hopeful the crow will fly in the window right now, feed in in I mean if that, if that happen- I have the idea that seem that's about all the natural progression of. What's going on. Oh my gosh, I I would be grateful for the time I had ok and that relationship and of course I'd be heartbroken. If, if we didn't anti age by then
Oh right, when I write counting on you but ok, but if not then I will just be so grateful that I had that much time and that special relationship, so that port, all I support but I guess I'm a little worried about you hitting the dating seen at fifty. The radio one, maybe I'll be ok. Maybe I won't need data no you'll be you'll, need your arm. Carnal needs met, don't you think I've toys, ok, would you ever? Can you imagine yourself being fifty or sixty and dumb? using the services of a male escort now not now naga. So I'm not gonna. Do that. Ok, maybe I'll find like another. Fifty year old, who doesn't really want a day but would just be interested in some quarters sexual activity. Ok, that's terrible
and now you don't wanna malice car. But what about? If you were well you'll, be loaded, it now from your all money but you'll of Inherited Sean's, o re young. Even think about that, so you you'll be loaded. What the notion that you'd have a boyfriend in he's like thirty And you know that a big chunk of his attraction to you is the comfortable lifestyle you provide. Would you be okay with that A good companion is good, as he's nice, but you just know there are big factor away like she was that you ve got some money in some comfort and you can travel with them and he likes the lifestyle you provide. While I wouldn't be comfortable feeling you, but if I was getting a lot out of that relationship, if all my needs were Matt listening, I think if
you're with a person, your age who you had that suspicion that they liked you for your money. You be a deal breaker alpha, but there's something about it being a yacht like a thirty year old Dumdum. Words like you're, not insulted by that visas, the thirty old Dumdum you know he's a term done now, Marino. Nobody is what, if he's there I'm trying to make him whatever you would be most comfortable with. So I guess I said Dumdum, because then you when it is really of court. This has a dumbo unknown salted by this. Oh, I see her eye Ok, ok, I'm sure we know where green tied on now at all anything, but only one path for Sharm Oriel is immense, actually not effect, because he cannot corrected it immediately. You said California City but met cholera Otto City and if it was a clear and case it's a Mormon town, water after yelled,
Some of fundamentalists, Mormon try towns were not to be confused with your average Mormons Thank you for clarifying the Mormons in particular that the quickest too, make sure everyone understands that they don't approve of the idea. That's good! That's calling out the extreme in their greater it, they now. I hesitate to say this because I d get one thing wrong in the passage you recall, I said that the Mormons believe Jesus born in the USA is not the case. They just believe that he visited the USA after resurrection I did so. I got that wrong. But what is interesting is they dismissed the fundamentalists as they should good for them, but the fundamentals are practising the early version of Mormonism like they they did have. My polygamy was totally right. Acceptable. Do you think polygamy is inherently wrong here? I don't
I dont at all first of all, throughout human history, there's been many many polygamous hunting and gathering societies. There is a group that anthropologists have studied that had one woman married to husbands that was standard. I forget all the reasons. Why was I dont think that a consenting adults the same age if they want to be in a three way, marriage or for we marriage, I dont care at all. The problem is in practice all the examples we have end up becoming, pedophile mills gas were all these old shit heads trade, thirteen year old, daughter, restoring another and it's fucking disgusting and and its rape, and so I do not condone obviously that version, but I do imagine, there's an ethical version of it. The pretty serve your favorite movie, Jerry Weintraub, he had to wife,
amounting married to the second, but they all live together, really yeah. What I read from the Warren Buffett documentary. I dont know if its explicit, but it seemed that he had to gals his wife moved to San Francisco. Very much loved and she loved him, and then she asked one of the neighbour gales if, if she'd make sure that warm was eating because he is liable to forget to eat, he gets so tunnel. Those spreadsheets, and so she started coming over to make him dinner, and then she ended up living there and am than his wife became ill in he went, was with her and then she died and he's still now living with that woman. So I am assuming that there was some kind of interesting arrangements yeah. I don't think it's inherently wrong either, but I do think it would probably get very tricky with the wise because one is probably the actual wife right or lilies that averse NEA and then there's probably
ranking system within the wives up, maybe the husband doesn't even know about what bed does the how exactly or the wife married too many husbands in them in the shop big love in that show, which I have to imagine, base somewhat in rail, He had knight set different house, so he was like now Tuesdays began to? would be inevitable, as you'd have the first wife in no matter how good their relationship was. The fun chemicals are gone as far as like novelty. And then a new girl would hit the scene, and so they do want to do it. Lot. More yeah demand this could go either of two ways, though the first wife might be so thrilled Have a father, a guy anymore, that could be a big bonus. Yeah just seems like I'll tell you a minimally you'd have to be really open. Coming yeah, that's true, that's very true
I have to have a lotta chickens and sit down on her ability out the wine, and then you ever a third and more fascinating. If everyone feels like they're getting what they need. I say great. I just wonder if it's actually possible, I'd like to show all we should try to interview someone not on the pedophiles gale ass. Let's look in, you should look into like some polygamous that aren't gross, or at least like maybe a scholar honour. It is such a thing. There must be some one must study that yeah, there's gonna be like some ground rules whether you re, I mean like societies to do for a long time. So how did they manage? It am, I know, there's different expectations back then than there are now. I think that's part of it now the expectation again kind of esters. Hang where we feel, like our partner needs to check all.
Our boxes, yeah yeah, now in many of the tribes that we studied I'd, say them vast majority- the many women and even live together. You had women's houses in you and men's houses are interested in. So in general. You'd have like this long house with you. Now forty deeds in it and there was a clear rank. You know the status of who was the chief and all this stuff and that person at several wives and down the ladder they have less wives, but then Why does a living together and then they gather all day in the night they co parent together all day, so I am sure that their relationship in any way resembles, but we would as a relation gesture. You know, maybe it's not what we're thinking of it like who gets to have a romantic dinner with yeah. Like who gets to watch Netflix in jail to me as a codependent. It just sounds
way too much like other, I think of it. Inevitably, one of the four people would be feeling upset me yeah endless that prison somebody else in the village to like it's probably are pretty ancestor. Like Lucy Goosey Mass lay sick, is without adding any of my friends at home. I gotta say we we got pretty close to that kind of lifestyle. At one point When you do, we were and are twenties just everyone, everybody, no one really gave a fly, in fact, to be honest, very little, her feelings, as I recall, really have a my ex girlfriend of dated half of my friend allowing their everyone felt find room was really Jill with it, yeah exceed Let's go very open minded really know what the explanation is other than I feel like that. Friendship group in particular everyone had such incredibly
defined lanes they were at the everyone, knew the thing they were and everyone had like. Our role and nose like swimming for where they fit in it, tat, are and that help Polly competence lies yeah man. Well, I feel less. I just got Hannah so when I said that why you're gonna do want, like you can almost died, No, I didn't go even come closed almost time tonight but you're, not worried and say no, no, I'm not I'm not I'm very grateful that Europa me too. Grave over the folks at cedars. They were so darn nice this is worth saying. One of the nurses was an armchair. The sweet gentlemen from the Philippines is been here for five years: zero accent
interesting. You have no accident and he said well, I loved american movies and I said a mediately. Do you believe in goes any says? No, but I used to live there just slow doing as Pocus just trying to gather some data it's lovely shall out to ham shut out. The fine folks had cedars, and you know I think I'm pyrrhus others, but one of minors is when I am. My seashore was an share in really yeah that hospitals are full armchair me, that's crazy, flattering so flattering and then, of course, was like views and do You're a wonder, is ignored my god, you gotta listen to that. So great, it's fun exam like would they be just a medical staff, or would they be like airing all that shit? I want to listen to whoever like, if I will listen to a daily on podcasting oh yeah yeah me to allow me do in fact, so my friend, even simply who I love,
If you marry than you now, I'm telling you No, I know anyone. That's got more percentage, a magic in them in so I notice that he was a guest on Ricky's podcast, Alas man. It was the great he's doing his interviews with the guest on his balcony. What the door shut God stare out, so I quit his fingers. During the interview in every clicks. His fingers in the gas can click their fingers. Things come on their feet is like a little monster takes a Pouponne had been Ethan Clay and he's got a mustache means talking is a mustache. It was real. Before I really liked it, and then it took me over to Ethan Spot can American. The latin american glutton, in fact, in a is it good in his so good at it. That's Murphy's. Ninety percent magic amount, surprise, and because of his own personal story, like you guys, know Ethan from America's
ask for my name, is earl- has been at to blow tons of great huge movies. I met a man without a paddle, he was a bad guy, but it really is a good guy and he is the one most interesting people in the world like he was acting, but then he got into poker. Then he became this guy's kind of gonna and he traveled the country. I just mean a gesture for this guy while gambled, then he gets soup and are made all this money buying and selling paintings, while the thing that he's of course been the most interested in forever is wait because he was at one time I think is a most was five ten? Why and he could We all want to say is like two thirds you're forty wow super muscular and he did not get gastric bypass, Ernie that war and so the level of knowledge he has on diet, exercise all this stuff, so anyways. So I've course,
export them. Like I'm a guy. I listened to your pop guessed. It was fantastic and then Ethan, I believe in yours. It's incredible what episodes of direct member blah and then he said. Can you talk for violence, about podcasting. So then we talked in the form of my right home yesterday and he's ok annoying, and am I I could talk about by gas theme for twenty hours straight yeah, I'm so interested in yeah, all the Mccain somewhere in the advertisers and the platforms and, yeah what's new. I remember. Had one thing happening: advertising bay, and I asked our age and others like war. What, if this happens like? Can you give us an example of what, if this happened to me said no, I can't like this first time. This is the first time that this is happening, and I was like, oh my god so weird to be on the four front of something or the beginning of something. That's better, especially a media form are totally, I feel like I've, just
Ben joining things that are a hundred and twenty years old, yeah yeah love that brand new, and I also love that there's no like Mount Rushmore there's no hack lay very freeing yeah. There's no biggie you do your megalith there's no yeah. They love it. Nice guy then yeah thanks for letting us do this. Even simply american glutton check it out this in the first one. We explains his story. Of his journey on weight loss. And then What episode five, I think it's Tom Cure K. I e r. We should have this guy onto he was talking about how to accomplish calls he tradespeople for combat, but he has these techniques for goals. I found so fascinating, ass, yet and also check out champagne. Could we love em, yes and eleven to the US and also check on our show. Ok, don't go out all these other chosen. If witless inertia, love. You read the air
Transcript generated on 2020-08-17.