We have one of your idols on today. My very faves one of the people that I think is just an exemplary person living on the planet and you know, does not come without controversy. Every person does- and I think just you know she is lived- a life that is crazy. She was a joke, less covering human rights. She saw the world from that perspective for so long that when she got into politics, I just felt every time I was tracking her reading about her. She just had such level head about dignity and her name is Samantha Power, and I just love her like crazy and she's cool currently the administrator of the United States Agency for international development under the Biden administration and was the United States ambassador to

United Nations under Obama and she was with President Obama from the inception of his run for president yeah, and this is neither here nor there. This is a just weird ding ding Ding, her husband CAS home wrote Danny condiments most recent book? Really, noise? Yes, and it was a bazaar- was so we're because we interviewed her and then the next day, Danny Convents team reach out to us, for I'm sure- and I saw the book- and I was like woe. That is too simulation. He it's very simulation. I mean they write books. They die coupled oh she's, a speaking of a people surprise when our yeah- that's actually how I d her cause. I read her book a problem from Hell. Probably I don't fifteen years ago when I was studying

researching and trying to figure out all of these wars that were happening everywhere. Where sort of Amerika was being involved in what's right and what's wrong, and I was specifically concerned with the child soldiers in Uganda, but she had a the amazing perspective on that, but she wrote this really dense book called a problem from Hell and she's. Just so oh yeah and so thoughtful, and then she also just in the midst This became a mom yeah you times over and you know, hid her pregnancy wench This first working in the White House could she was like. I don't want them to think. I cant do my job, because I can do my job as a she was just wearing like really big shirts and running to the bathroom Alla time and yeah. What are really like about this show that we're doing as we are trying to show women in different lines of work in different areas and try to cover all of that spectrum and the political one is so specific, and so

EL driven, often end and so was really really really cool. To hate. To hear this powerful woman, whose, among all these men, all the time, has to find a way to make her voice heard, and I just we enjoyed hearing how she did that. I never has a really a victim's attitude about it. Cause she's definitely like in her new book and education of an idealist, which I loved reading as its very much you know, servant autobiography she's got such an idealistic point of view and she talks about how she was sort of school about what has to happen in how you have to compromise, and what can you give up, but in it got us into a lot of situations where you know she's three minutes for a meeting in the White House, but to walk into a meeting where the president end. You know ten heads of, aid are waiting for you to walk in three minutes. Late is excruciating, you might as well Walkin completely new yeah, and she just talks about that with such law. the she's just have a real human being that you here.

Equally, she and I can love or more I am glad that you brought her to the table and it was such a fun conversation, so these enjoy Samantha power. We are supported by one dream. I find that I'm endlessly cure ES. Yet, if the television comes on, I will watch something mindless absolute I'll watch. You know three hours of a reality show that I didn't need to have in my life and then I'll feel like man, I could have been educating myself and wondering M gave as that to you. There's curiosity at your fingertips. Video learning experience is audio learning. Experience is going so much further than what you'd find searching the web. There was one called the brain based guide to communicating better. oh good, because oh good for your personal and professional life. Communication is key for everything and there were like lessons and practical strategies, and it was just really really

and they have documentaries, tutorials and a ton of collections. It's really really great. If your curiosity has ever been peaked about anything. You will love wondering wondering is the best we use it and want to join us and experience your own mind Boeing moments with wonder. If I'm right now, our listeners can get the special offer a free month of unlimited access to the entire library, go now to wonder him. Dot com, slash glass, to sign up today, that's w! Oh Anne D! Are I? U am dot com, slash, glass, wonderin, dot, com, slash, glass, baby

go to bed rolling What way first of all, which is more difficult, setting apart cast equipment or asking the world do acknowledge genocides Maybe I'm just asking is easy: it's nothing and gave him to do anything that she got. Are you guys how's it going for you with this one? We hate to be happy, but we are be happy. You cannot be happy, no workers we're talking to people that we have not dying amount of respect for, and you are at the very top of my list and I've

mired you for so long and read even some of your really dense stuff is you can write That's no joke or problem from Hell was not a light blug. That was when you out yourself as being more nerd than glad that's fine with me. Look in preparing for this searching on the internet and seeing that people have Samantha Power fan club, T shirts and then coming to the realisation that they're not sold they were made and that I can't get one was something that did not make me happy, Why need one I'm going to to the interview couldn't find it and then I just felt an immediate might competitive glory kicked in and I was like who does this

our own. A t shirt think she is. I am the president, shall we can all be ok, you're right, erased and bow that's. What we're working out here and also a Christian is going to put an Etsy store up because all she's been doing over quarantine this crafting and gel nails, so she's gonna do store. I'm talking about my analyst crafting to keep me busy of needed sweater and a half unlike to make clay figurine. Of all my family. So there's just like mishmash faced clay figurines everywhere and I figure why not at sea store, and you can do some the power to shirts. Oh, no and the text I get thinly pooped in regions room

a phone and she took her family is not a child. Minus ten removes a dog point out. We should say this interview was happening in February. Ok will come out later in the ear, and so at that point you will be in the jar. Yes of of of U S, aid, administrator or administrator of the agency for international development. When Christian was saying you know we get to sit here and we get to talk to people that were incredibly taken by. Don't you feel fraudulent, a hundred persons are, we feel so broad Juliette. I wondered what your experience was. Do you feel that Samantha, like do you feel fraudulent in these space, because you're in this insane arena like when we come at you with the same power fan club stuff? Do you feel as fraudulent as I feel cousin of mine? I think mangoes deeper, because I'm like even saying someone else's words like I can't take it.

For the good play spent. Do you find that at all I mean the short answer? Is yes, but it's complicated, partly because of that, that I tried to do the didn't pan out that are much more salient in my memory is partly because virtually on any issue where I've even made modest inroads. It's what you were just sing, but the good place. There's some team of people that you're working with where, when I was you an ambassador, I was a person out in front, but then I had all my site since nerds or my humanitarian experts are my climate law people and I'm below the bright shiny object so absolutely feel I dont know what would the rewarded not sort of Jason?

I suppose, in just a little bit like a let's move on this talk about something else in how much I feel like I've expose myself to your life and your work. I feel like you, ve, set such a tone and an example for me as to how to give credit to other people, because one thing I love about when I read your writing, is you take such time and loving tone when you described the people that you work with and I'm not talking about? Colleagues, it appears I'm talking about like there's a chapter. in education of an idealist, when you talk about having gotten a new position and how much Maria the nanny you hired for your family to watch how much she did, the kudos that you give to the people that you work alongside not just in compliments, but in they are literally the wind beneath my wings. I couldn't be here or like it's just on or a ball from my perspective of oh yeah. This is a woman who recognises its. Not just her. There is,

tyres, support system here and not only recognises it, but you take the time to put that information out there. Well, when I chose to write about my wife, I think the way I rationalize doing so is it felt a little bit self indulgence in is one thing to write a book about what we should do about. You know sexual trafficking or about climate change and other than to read, look about oneself when those problems are out there in the world and part of my logic was. I had this experience of being an activist, and being before that a rapporteur on the outside, and looking in and thinking, I had a pretty decent understanding how things worked in the US government and then I got in there and I started to see this tapestry of humanity right both in terms of where people were from where their parents have emigrated.

religion, race, gender, just the range of backgrounds and people that I was coming in contact with an eye on the outside would have tended to focus on sort of the Secretary of State or the president or the new security visor. Then I get inside him. Looking under the hood, I see all my goodness gracious, it's so much more interesting and rich than that, and it's a scream at virtually every level of government and who are these people? You know who aren't interviewed by the press. Aren't profiled in vote hooker, anyplace else, and yet there are the life blood of this, so the idea was open it up and tell a story about that, and I want people who read too not just see themselves and ass himself

Oh, maybe one day become Eu Ambassador, but there are so many ways to make a difference. That was an objective was to show look at all these different ways, making different separately the describing Maria who was our nanny, was, I suppose, motivated by something else, a what's factual and true, which is just no way in Hell. I would have been able to do anything without her, so that was an imperative to tell that story, but also to show that it isn't easy and to show the privilege that I had to be able to hire. Somebody like that after tat the resources to do so, which so many working women don't have a working parents. Don't have. I saw you, I just felt like. Let me own this, like I am lucky, not everybody to soothe, and even with Maria who is a magical human and for it to still be made barely hanging barely hanging on having the conversation

with John Kerry about Russia sanctions and having duckling my son at the time. It still myself Delicate time is a sermon trying to get my tension, and you know it. With carry in trying to show him away as we all working parents have the experience of doing and having him trying and trying again and finally, him stopping off and saying Putin, Putin, Putin. When is it going to be tackling DEC on tackling DEC on and that's my version of it, but ever Working parent has a version of that story right and that's when I have a Maria and that's with all the blessings and privileges that I've had I did so? I wanted to open it up rather than like. Sometimes, if you like it so stylized, you know yeah me and my children and my work life balance in everything is going so swimmingly eyes, a charade off. Yes, oh. I also know that you said that, obviously,

you're telling people to lean in, but also to lean on, and I think that so important concern is this ideal that, like women, have to do? in all. They have to be the mom and they have to also work, and you have to do this and they have to be loving and nurturing and also disciplinarian and all you have to be all the things, and I think it's really good to say. Like no rely on your village rely on people around you because they bring you up, and I also wonder, give you Kristen. It may maybe learned from SAM but probably Emmy. Maybe it's a fisherman sing and other fishermen at sea, but you Are the epitome of that? I would not be sitting here if you had done that. For me, all you do is bring people up and acknowledge them and give credit and should take that's very ends. Well, you know, I will certainly compliment, give you further. We copy that, I will say also I was down wind of

I am sure the creator of the good place for many many years and he just reeks of lifting people up. I was gonna. Ask you someone model that, for you all useful thinks of it, he is the best boss I've ever had. I was desperate to figure him out like what is it what's his special magic? What's the recipe and number one, it's that he's just kind and respectful, but also he goes out of his way to uplift people in a very practical and tangible, way like he will see our prop master, who is exquisitely, talented and he'll, say next time, I'd like you to be the production designer, but it was the specific desire he had to isolate people's talents and then just see how he could water that seed. and it doesn't make sense in my brain to not do that and you were so apparent in the big.

When I met you, just as I like an acquaintance- and I was like oh this girl's gonna do great she's my boss very soon, and lo and behold here we are, but I do think in female space that can be hard to do. I think there's a lot of feelings of this can go into races. But like you know, there's only one slaughter, there's only two sides and I got one so I got a port it for myself, that's unnatural. To feel that way. I may we have, to combat it, but I think it I dont know if its natural or if its societal, and that there has only been one place at the table and it's been looked up as a gift, but I need to fight a fairer. fight each other. Did you have a group of women who you felt like you lean on like professional or personal. So in my in early twenties. I was in a pack of female workers, violence and they were all like me, but by large freelancers, who would have been prone to not be that welcome

because in the freelance environment sooner you get, strings. You get a string that connects you with the publication of the magazine. Tv station were a newspaper and so, if you are seeking to acquire lots, so you can make piecemeal enough to get by on thought in your info. For some other correspond, a male or female to show up, and yet When I arrived all the men we're like no other, no they're, no strings available, we gotta covered, and this woman, it was time magazines, freelancer, Laura Peter, said to me just to listen to those ass well, ass. Of course there is work come and she wrote her number honour coaster. You know which I tucked into some book I was reading, and then I was back in America and I was thinking just been to the Balkans at one time. Should I go back and I have heard little ever was a cop you serve email address, she have you, got there first internet, where you're the plug your computer into the wall and an eye

I will I e mail. Her will call her. Should she writer. Those guys is that what is gonna be like, and I trusted her When I went, I stay her apartment and she taught me how to write a leads and do a rating Then pr, radio spot she kind of educated me and then the circle expand. I've just more and more female corresponds like this. and they were all my wedding you're, my best friends. To this day. We have you, no one of those message chats in were posted the latest outrage on this or that of the latest book, we read that we were meant everybody. So so that was just a kind of network that grew up and really defied, journalism reputation and maybe some other reputation that some women have her kicking the chair away once they have achieved something for themselves. That was not my view. Ass, though, when I got to the White House, I was not conscious initially of being a woman in the workplace, weirdly I was pregnant than I was initially the mother of a new born. I was new to government, so how

you get a decision out of the president on something that matters in his urgent to learn that as well as I was the human rights adviser which is like into being the skunk long party to feel a lot of trends in ten season american foreign policy that cut against human rights. So initial I thought number one, I'm back! but my job, which is terrible because their people outside counting on me and number to I'm bad, because I knew when I suck and that's it and I've just got to get better how about me- and it was only when a female colleague of Mine named List Sherwood, Randall who's. Now, President Biden's Homeland Security advisor in a huge job at the White House yeah, she said, ladies they're only six of us out of twenty six senior, a sturdy staff. We're meeting in my office on Wednesday night Well, you never one glass of wine yeah

and bear in mind that the end of the offices at the White House, if you work on our security because of all the intelligence you work inside a safe to literally, have to turn one of those dials like in a heist movie anyway. That's even system is a bottle of wine in the middle of the sea, and these Other women, I kind of work on different issues, and so they seem to totally other acts together. They had none of these thought bubbles. It seemed to me from the outside that I was having of why my so bad this women are getting things done. Then we sat down and one after the other told stories just like mine and anomalies, wait a minute there's something else going on here I mean everybody who was their working for a bomb at that time was a progressive in their orientation and pro it would have self identified man and woman like as a feminist, but it didn't matter there just where these these ways in which a woman's comments warrant elevated were taken seriously. It felt like only at least that was the other women's impression, and servant was impression of my own contributions.

a bit inability to get things done so once we had just that one glass of wine and that venting and I heard I was like ok wait. She works on Non proliferation and she works on counter terrorism and their happiness experience. I am so it's not because its human rights, some other dynamics here and a numbers matter right you go from being the only woman in a room to being a majority and how just things engine such subtle and essential ways without you even noticing, but it was that experience and was convened this group in every week, any one of us in town was felt. The Wednesday group and our calendar is like a permanent thing. It totally and the way we thought about ourselves and our own abilities and it changed. The way we interact with one another If one of us was the enemy to innovate, disagreeing with an I disagreed. Fervently on a couple issues we would say over wide must come back to this point:

not sure we ve been hateful interest, make sure that the dignity and the agency of the individual was respected in elevated, and that was the intention activity in a self consciousness I had never had before. now running a large aid see I'm thinking about and every day, how do I make the workforce feel that and not just on gender and not just other people who have long been marginalized or in or not been present in big numbers, but diverse viewpoints to re people who are bringing contrary and perspectives that may be are you bar you because you have to be efficient and you have to get decisions? You can't have long lyrical debates about everything at all times and gotta keep your Gs De Pie, oughta, give you just a cushion at the right level, but at the same time at feeling that people can have a being attached to something that inclusive propriety in a huge opportunity. I feel like two at scale. She was possible

so much I mean this is why you're my favorite wool, and also, I think, in a we interviewed, Amy Polar on armchair and her and three other and created a brain citizens brigade, which is a form of comedy experience for so many comedians, and it were talking about this idea that you almost feel like to succeed. You have to be a guy's girl, you know, like you, have to be someone who gets along with the guys in and who can hang with the guys quote and like I just love this idea that you guys tat girls, night, essentially giant, say innocent ass. The female relationships are important and to not disregard those, but you can like climb a ladder or you can like get along with the men in and of course, the reason we feel this is because men dominate so many of these professions, but I love it just like no also focus on the

I never would have done it. I mean the reason, I'm so careful gear on this one. To give credit where credit is due, is that lizard been she'd worked Pentagon four year she'd been some of the most male dominated. She just knew that this was a place that she could create just with this small act right unless a refuge and a place to inculcate a solidarity that wasn't there before and I became you in a basket her. I had talked to meddle in all bright, who was America's first female secretary of state shattered some serious glass of her own name, I'm before that she was? U N ambassador back and ninety ninety three so twenty years before I was in the job- and she had had to say, It is well that I would not have had, but for Lisbon Buffer Madeline, which is when got to the? U N, the one hundred and eighty three countries represented there, an only son

of the massacres out of a hundred. Eighty three were women, so she created something. She called the g7 which of course, through the group of seven among countries, but by girl, seven and she gathered those seven ambassadors together, and I think that they managed to notch some, not trivial policy achievements in so far as, God, female judges, elected to the war crimes tribunals and those judges ended up being involved in passing down the first ever verdicts on rape as a weapon of war and as a former genocide, so it end up having this knock on effect, but beyond that, they just me it allows you to identify kind of. What's? U and watch the and what's the guy was William, was society? What's the community, the broader dynamic and was across region and religion and adjust what these seven countries happened to be? There had put women forward when I at their flash for twenty years. Three hundred ninety three countries in the world about ten countries have joined the EU.

Since and when I arrive, we had thirty seven female from representatives, female ambassadors and so on melons advice. I convened the g thirty seven would it went up over financing. Was the g forty one? Forty two: do you know this book confidence code now writing down tattooing, body, women and girls in confidence and so forth. So we brought these authors to talk to these female pr is about confidence, and these are women, who are often the first person in their nano in their family, but in their village to go to college, and here there representing a country at the United Nations, just breathtaking stories of courage and resilience and so forth, and yet here they are talking about confidence and disclosing what has been like for them at every stage when they ve been in a breaking through some barrier in Nepal or in Vietnam or in Mozambique or whatever and said, I was

using, and then we had dinner with a glorious Steinem and before them you know in their own countries to be able to reflect to her a bow wow The feminist movement in the United States meant in their own communities, and so someone again was was really That's all it solidarity, but some of it was cooperative as Madeline, had done on concrete issues and things that we were trying to achieve unity, for example, getting more female police and soldiers into pieces. emissions for sexual violence is such a recurring challenge, so you'll get its practical but its spiritual, and it takes time and that's what goes right when you get busy when you get stuff when you're in challenging or competitive work situations. That's what gives cause it's the first thing that gets dropped from your schedule, and yet it pays off the pay such dividend so make that time.

oh my god again, there's so much to unpack weight, but first we have to fix this. I want to help you fix this. Listen what if you took those headphones off and you flip them over right, like invert them right and then still put it on the back, is there a hook that goes over your light years? There must be some there's something: I am doing this raw see that hold the little space between the actual. Eager and love, is the the like black hook thing that goes over the top of your ear. All this. Does that mean, Yes, yes, you guys break through helping women. What I thought your Gazeta shows you how fast at only say what I've tried to do a little towns, which is that you know how they used to be able to achieve by J Ai, that's like nor turned the crystal but you're a great.

Listener, and you knew there was a small possibility that I had something to contribute and you went with it, and that is why I love you. Now you can like it would do anything that language ass grew colony and am all max. I know I'm or not in the safe and we did it. This is the power I would love to go under the say only to field. We are supported by hello, rash. Ok, I love burritos, it's one of my absolute favorite foods, I'm so into the experience I like when you wrap, food up and put it in a little packet, and you made me the most delicious burrito, the other night from hell of fresh it had by beans had a lime, cranberry bursting with flavour, big time it was so easy and it took me like twenty minutes to do the whole thing and it was

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on all in having an outlet is so important. Even if you don't think you need one try better help go on a complaint about us go away. I pod cat, you have permission, you have permission. If anything we ve done is bugged, you go take a listening ear and just be you and feel better when you leave its more convenient, more affordable than in person therapy financial aid is available and our listeners get ten percent off their first month at better help. Dot com, slash glass, that's better h, E Lp, dot, com, slash glass, I would love for you to accept, laying a little bit your thoughts and feelings on being pregnant in the White House. Okay, so I hid my pregnancy. Late. Hidden quotes

oh pathetically thought I was highly like I did on house applies when I had a whole bunch of brief cases in front of my giant Riley you doing the same thing, but in I presume people on the saddle, in the no air, yet it was pretty outweigh its now been. My son is eleven so by definitions been eleven years since I felt I had to do this, so I met my has been cast on scene on the Obama campaign in the early part of two thousand eight. He proposed shockingly quickly we got married in July, two thousand AIDS, the election of Obama was, November, two thousand and eight- and I then we knew we were pregnant, begun pregnant in serve always so I was only a couple months pregnant at that point and then thinking about what job am I going to do, the Obama administration and we all my thoughts

I was not they're gonna- hold it against me that I'm pregnant actually internalized. We have the massive global and for crisis at that time were trying to get our troops out of, but worse magazine it hole, and they would once one who won't go away for three months. I looked at it, putting myself in their shoes and just that will guide I mean it's an emergency situation, and so, even if they won't mean too because their progressives and understand the rights of women there not to be left open sounds that's an important, acknowledge, I think it's a sort of a contrary, an acknowledgment of like you weren't, coming at it from the place of it being the sexist or that they wouldn't they would hold it against but it's simply a reality, sometimes for the other side to go off. I'm supportive of this, but she's gonna leave for three months. We need someone to fill the position, and so I did the holes.

our thing and then my vanity started to kick in the certainty that I was returned, but Colleague of mine, who was one of Obama's climate advisers, we were do right around the same time. We had a kind of one of those where we notice we were both wearing scars, it's the same style and sort of mixing. It ever really had one of those looks across the room, and so we chatted our boy, ended up being born in a within days of another in, and so this became recurring sister heard of and we had to deal with pumping in visiting her, our babies during the work they once we went back after maternity leave. I mention that just because, whatever is that we women do internalize about the culture it can improve Eve or contribute to delaying the enjoyment of full rights. What I wish I had done is just said it. Here's the situation

import because their younger women behind me, I was in my late thirties when I had my first child answer me hiding. What signal does that? Send two people are thinking. Do I have a baby? Do not have a baby me hiding badly, maybe I'd better even more like the worst of all worlds right, so so I think just to have the confidence to know that these are there to protect you I mean it was no paid leave right any at that time at all at something we still have to work on we're still like the last developed country. That doesn't have that. So That's another issue related to it, as if once everybody was well aware that I was here, a baby, and I was lucky to be able to take the three months and use the vacant. ten days and the sick days and then have savings that I, Braun or have my husband still working, but just the choices that forces people in the federal workforce to me.

right where you're not gonna, be with your baby him for three months. You guys go back after six weeks because it's not covered and you can afford to buy formula, get send your kids to daycare without me, income that you get so so I think your allotted dimensions to being pregnant and then went on back. I really did go back whole hog. I had met Maria this amazing emigrants from Mexico who spoke I, my son in Spanish and I'd, come home and she be dancing to mexican music. You around the apartment and just so full of of love and prayer. Again and again, this kind of effervescence So that made it easier to leave. Of course, the first day I said goodbye bore away you I'm in the end and cast an eye driving together and he's quite stoic about it. He's like you'll be back tonight, we're gonna child are not immediately child and an efficient by. We put him in a daycare right across the White House, so I would spread

it's in my very modest heels. Looking like a Washington working women like sprinting down the corridors of the old executive office, building darting across the street, trying to get my feet in an annex few occasions you not even thinking about I'm just know, I had a meeting on atrocities in this country to come too, and so I am hustling across seventeen street without even knowing I'm doing it unbuttoning the top couple button but be efficiencies have to be found. A man in a couple occasion, just getting so busted kind of in saying you don't I've got a girl. What do you think your most embarrassing or comedic intersection of having a career and being a mom is the thing that is coming to my mind less about the many times in which you know. I'm sorry

my daughter and have the was a blackberry. Days, but of Latvia wedged up to my ear and then I feel her paying As I release better word. You, a man with John Kerry holding her and it's going all down my suit eyes. So there's dad the whole genre, but I think be the better example because its parent or not parent, I think it's got a larger truth in it was before I had DEC on. So just for months into my time at the White House, when I still very much feeling like a novice, whereas adjusting to having been quite close to Brok, Obama, the Senator and candidate, to now there being some lairs between me and him not having walkin privileges lay at the overall and really not seeing him much as he was dealing with the financial crisis and other very grave.

I was in the early part of two thousand nine, so I'm I think around seven months pregnant at this time. I finally get someone to the two brief him because he's having a meeting with the Un Secretary General and in addition to being his human rights adviser on his you, an adviser, some absolutely site, and this is it I'm gonna remind him the fifth of what he is missing, by now and the inner circle gonna nail the brief and the way our offices restructured. There's the old executive office building where the New Security Council staff another one staff work and then just across a tiny little line is the West Wing and when I get over the West wing, I realize I North West Wing West Wing is if the situation were many tonnes, have many important meetings. Just I've never been to the awful ever every minute. Wait I'll store before it was a term where's. The old

and instead of doing what I should have done and what I'm confident most dude would have done, which is just as somebody when we get to the oval I hustle back across this little leaned back to my office of already flights of stairs to my office, and I google well math oval office. You wanted to do it by yourself, Dan Straight because you don't want people to know that you're not been to the overall monitoring months into the so turns out. There is a map online, both the Washington Post man it's really mainly about whose powerful and kind of whose close to Home- and it's not about, actually find it Gary Baby Oval, so I printed out it, but it's not drawn escape oh I give up over there, I'm still there's a chance. I can make it on time. Still, my only briefly like it's, you know, I'm just desperate, I'm so panicked and I'm still holding my little battered poems brings water bottle. Does I fainted as a pregnant mother in my first week of the waiter,

Carry that water bottle ever since so bottom line is on ten minutes late. For this, eating- and I come in- and everybody seated Enesco devised with the Secretary of State because funky mood is not in the meeting- is still on the pre brief. I put this. You know it's a water bottle that I've been caring for weeks. So you know that stickers like all round the pollyanna. Rather, we shouldn't be carrying such bottles and no longer so far as they want to reassure people fewer reusing at so I was reusing, but nothing else, but I had the bottle. I put it on this coffee table in front of a bomb over his apples were next thing is like flatly, comes overrun and just picked it up and he's got this look I'll, even light like this, I suggest that as this unsanitary thing like ours is going in the present, so I'm late

and my briefing on breathless- Obama ends up like honey. We often just saying much catch her breath will come back to humiliating and it's exactly we don't want to do. You ought to be the pregnant woman who can't finish your sentence in the so what's important about the story, though in it, because it's not, really a mother in story is just more the inelegant at all when you're trying to You too much it wants is that I was so mortified. I didn't tell anybody the back story, the Map Europe and after about two years working at the White House, I'd say I had come across a half dozen people who use the exam same washing, pose map got lost in exactly the same way and because I told him for when I start feel more confident. Did I told a story like an commencement address, or something and one by one, these we were committed. I use that seems like I wake up at. Haven't you too, you know, so it's more just

you know, you aim to sort of show that you have it together and it makes matters worse than that, but it's also just so many people who look like their strutting around the with poise and so collected where's, your the scattered one. There's this great expression, never compare you're in sides to somebody else's outsides, neighbouring love, love and that the economic That's what I learned it now along exactly, and I think that that is a story that just shows that it did so many people have that same churned of like how my coming across I've learned my lesson. If I try to be nothin tickly, humble person, but man. I will switch on a dime to an overly confident person and picturing myself going through that walking in and is the first thing I like not even may be waiting for the president to address me me like I got lost its all happened ya. Everybody's. You know how stupid mab I'd like you to sit down, and this is where, like I can switch on a dime

I would look around and be like. Ok, ok, is anyone else in your sustaining another life, no ok! Moving on! Oh, I love. I do feel a real. Desire to own when I feel like I'm either put up with some shit. It's learned, but Clia fear in an environment where you're afraid we're, gonna lose your job are you're, afraid, yeah, there's somebody in line then yeah you have to come with the map right. You have to prove your competent. You can ask for help because that shows that you don't know what you're doing and you ve never been there. I ve never been there than you're, probably not good enough to be there, and you know it just like spirals out that I'd adamantly its learned, then, because I think that my owning my privileges, I've been in a position of privilege for so long being, an actor who could pay my bills. People want you in the row a hundred percent, yes exactly and then so. I have the luxury of not dealing with that.

Of oh, I'm gonna be kicked out and actually just going straight to bitch. I've been through a lot this morning. I want everyone able defined whores sang. I wish I could bestow that feeling, because it is quite a liberating feeling that I dont necessarily feel is combated, but rather ownership of my space and honesty. I wish desperately that I could like bottle that and hand about everyone who needs it cause. I we're gonna, sell it and our mark store on at sea yeah we're gonna be able to sell it. Dont think covered in the circumstances of the zoom life could be throwing a spanner in the works here in an interesting ways. You even small things like zoom bombs and dogs barking and for us, as women and parents, there's just no way around that the personal life is gonna

intrude all professional life in any. Yet now, that's true fur way more people rageous that kind of integration. I just wonder if we were passing through this season the vulnerability of the deepest like there, I'm all sense, but also of exposure and whether that creates more ever more of a willingness on the part of people to assert that life is like but like zoom brings it all right because its lives are often captured, but there are upsides to it in that, like I'm, seeing lots behind you now you're, seeing what's behind us right now, you're seeing the actual practical, tangible space in their something to that leg, especially a comparison. You brought up in your book that I love so much is when you would get to know people the? U N, using that like you valued it, because when you walked into the

whom of someone else who is from another side of the country. You didn't just look at them. As the representative of Seneca, you looked at it as O. This person has a picture their family on their desk, and I see now what this person likes to drink for lunch, what kind of tea or coffee they like and you're, able to humanize people so much more, and maybe even these little boxes, where we get a glimpse into each other's spaces, is as actually partly bringing us closer together. Yeah interests in the gender space like yeah, the dad is on assume the kids probably come in there too, for like may be the first time a dad is experience,

In writing. The intrusion of like that I am making BBC in our view that we all made love from like eight years ago in the behaviour and starving rustling. So serious. Now, that's everybody. It is its bringing some equity and I think I know in a fun way that no one expected which, when you were talking about maternity leave and that whole period of time where you had kept quiet, the reality of the situation as they needed you there. So you be there. You know- and I think that's a really big reason. We need paternity leave, not just for men so that they can spend time with the kids, but so that it's equal, so that if a child is born, it's not just like. Well, the mom's going to be gone for three months. It's like what the dad's going to be gone for three months to so it's all. One thing: you know you can't parse out. The female element

wrote nor no, some would you also referred to that when you were, I think, appointed to the national security cabinet position. There was like a picture taken of deck running to you, and I just want you to express what the reaction was to that picture from people. That role so first, let me set the scene which is in order to become you in a basket or I had to go through Senate confirmation, just as I did for you s, aid and I had written prior to that point- maybe a million words as an activists critic of U S, foreign policy, books and so forth as well, but those words were, I knew going in we're gonna be picked apart and challenge, and when you said this and how can you defend? Having said that and so sure enough? That's what happened and so deck one at that time was four and he was sitting behind me.

Maria was there with our daughter, but that didn't last long that was gonna be the. How could anybody we mean to me infant daughter was has finally been. I didn't work out so well as your insurance. Exactly so I pure ran off in the hallway Maria walking her back and forth. I just want to go out, and but I was there, answering tough questions for a good few hours and when, finally, the gavel whence- and this quite difficult few hours for which had been preparing for weeks finally was over there. I'm just wept over two rows of chairs and just went into my arms, and it was so beautiful. We can. I talk about it even because it was, I think, primarily his sense that I needed protection. On one level. You know and answer things in reverse eluded me. I had needed action, but I was all alone there for the prior few hours, so

jumps into my arms and next thing, because it's a high profile position, this Washington scale, paparazzi oppress ground there. Just sort of descended on the table and my thought bubble in that moment was finally there's gonna, be picture of me and my son, because every damn photo is me taking a picture of CAS and the kids and him never taking a picture like immediately, it's just I thought of it all I like, I will exist in this boy's life, so had that thought which seeks to some division of labour issues they have to work on it, and then it ended up in the newspaper I am certainly very sweet photo of just like my relief in his protective Nelson was beautiful, and then I guess it was picked up on the wires and went around the country is published and other places, but it was in the washing posts and I we're getting these emails and letters from people all different walks of life, just saying how inspiring they felt that follow

The message was some version of usually which is really great, to see a person with small kids going into such an important and high pressure and time consuming their security role. You know gives me renewed faith it that we can all do it. That way, just all have to just go for it, pursue your professional dreams, and and we'll figure it out and lean and lean on the other lean on we monitor. In that instance, I was leaning on my boy, but what was interesting for me was really caught me off guard that all you know, I'm just living, but now I'm doing something else. Some modeling unwittingly in that case So it made me, though, act differently than for the next four years, when I was in the job in being really conscious about how I interacted with my Kids are giving more. Let me put it this way, giving more visibility in to the chaos and

into the questions that com at home. There is this great british book series call them, Mr Mann, and if you ever came across it, but it is the best riding down tattooing in my body I have. This element is actually the best baby gift. When someone has a baby, because it's for kids just a little bit, you know, maybe your youngest Christmas still go for it. It's MR greedy, Miss! chatterbox Mr Mean is basically parables about the human condition. Are they little circles? A little circles wait. They also have little mess because I little middle misled as barriers examine. My mom got me little, Miss Bossy, which I found compliment and an end of aggressive area. So I got really miss books and the devil routes. The Mister Brooks in them is books, but because it You wanna, explain kind. A wire away and not just bring your kids into the darkness of wire away and all the crises, but I started to explain in each of the ambassadors and had of lichen them to one of the Mr Mann characters you so that you know.

was the russian ambassador most lie. Who is there? Who was the one who went on and on and on and in the Security Council meetings where you can never get home for dinner on TAT was missing about us, and so we were take the glow bowed and I was shown on the globe where the country was of a year, and it was all great until they would actually come to them. ambassadors rest now, oh, my god, you should examine what is so my busted again, but giving voice in public remarks or in interviews with journalists about this experimentation, almost or exploration of, how to do both knowing you're, not gonna, be at full cylinder on both at once at any one time, but instead of internalizing all of that kind of extra analyze it we do beat ourselves

and so, if you show that you yourself are carrying that same sense of off I'll, never be enough to be in two places of one sir: even use your platform to urge self forgiveness and and that others can forgive themselves making all that more when an education idealist in, I wrote about the fertility staff and miscarriages and IVF which women, I think, starting to do much more. In that's another example where, if you looked at urged her memoirs. You would think it is really was very rare finance. The fertility challenge with a miscarriage challenges which are related, it's so prevalent in writing the book. I thought oh surface this in grab my own journey and knowing how many women are going through, and just so. They know that so many of us have gone through something similar. The number of people at book. Events who come up in the cartesian want to have is about that experience and about that communist

that solidarity, someone will identify with you if you're saying something honest and I think part of the something we get into this right as humans to find what one identity that is doing it right, and I do that as well like I'm looking for like the way to do it, and this is one come across in just like. You know looking at what feminism means and, unlike I wonder, if we're chasing this one, thing when in actuality, it's all of the things, because I know in my heart of hearts, I never feel more powerful than when I'm what sort of my what you'd look at as like domesticated duties like when I get my laundry done and my sink is clean unlike buck. Yes, I nailed it and don't necessarily have that feeling like when I get off a sad or anything, but like I am elated alike, the feeling of one I'm taking care of my shit at home, and I don't necessarily feel like I'm, not a feminist when I'm having those feelings. When so it's like some,

whose, like you know why, I'm a working women I dont want to have children. This is not my path. I want to just be a career women or someone who's like I'm. U, no! Forty! old, and I dont have kids and I have a loving marriage and an I'm more of a party animal. I like to leisure time or having someone who's like. I want to be just a stay at home, which is a huge job with one or multiple children and imagine, and those of you who have it who who want both in its like all those identities, are important to represent two women because they're all choices, one I dont think is more feminist, then another. I think of any of us doubted the endurance and multitasking skills, Empathy and the patients that it took to be a sterile mom covered oh yeah, cooling off guys son. Well me

Why you get your ass and write like that. That phrase you know, just as they are Roma, which, in other words serving popular culture, probably still go together too much in all, all these women do it. I'm the best mean, and I came out right in the meat in the beginning, it say and just like that. No one ever judged a stay at home, and I was like yeah, perfect. I really thought you were going to say your most comedic intersection being a moment a career woman was when you were pumping in on young, soon, she's bathroom, all his eye, find that to be one of the most spectacular stories that I've ever read, because I've have followed her for years on end searches was this: what's the acronym for her party in Burma and algae and algae, where Europe can be able to speak to a better? but she's a very important figure, and she was under house arrest for twenty one years. I think the President and Hillary Clinton we're in

the room talking with her about major peacekeeping stuff, and you were like WA la la No. I mean I was in a meeting is a historic meeting was a first sitting presents trip to Man Mara, there had liberalization where a democratic election had occurred and the results were being respected, it look like, and things were liberalizing political prisoners you're getting out of jail. I'd actually negotiated the communique before about came with a whole set of concessions by the burmese government. Obama showed The communique was negotiated and people are happy with it and there I found myself in her house in a meeting with Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and arrest the teams, my very small meeting of maybe a half dozen people in uncensored. She, and luckily, even though I was incredibly uncomfortable in the meeting your bustin out you're in this security, but

always special when you're a foreign country, but even in America, where you can't get separated from the bubbles. You can't be like time out. I've gotta go pomp or whatever, so I just got sweat. long? You can't raise your hand and sakes. So excuse me my skins, about to rip. I need your relieve some of this pressure. Cassandra really able even failure skins about a rapid anyway. So locally. There was a moment where the meeting got so called skinny down, where only the principles were left and, I think, will be left Secretary Clinton on sex itchy and President Barroso is the very reason while the rest of us were kind of shewed. What asked God Almighty, I run after to the armored car, and I get my little pump bag and I run back is a reservation. Is Erasmus? They put me in the restroom closed the toilet seat. I sit on the seed and take out the implements an arm, doing the thing in its making this noise and I'd have that moment that a woman, as you say, you're swept up in it and you are just lids like the next thing. I knew you were so busy that you're not going meadow on your life.

Sitting there and having to do that. for whatever would have been five minutes. Thinking about this. How did it happen that and I'm even married, because I met ass on the Obama campaign and then it was also a whirlwind and then has happened there Myanmar has appeared to liberalize in this way and the nonsense did she that anybody can even be at her house and that you can be sure that the de facto leader of this country and end we? How can it be that that I had two kids another hopping? one of them, as it was the professional and persons and all of you to just to say if any part of this scheme He sure this scene, if somebody had painted that picture for me, would have been completely plausible you'd been me, you no kind of doing swim, apps on the moon or something was crazy, because they then went met, I'm going men and I thought all I'm getting carried away like. Where is everyone wonders? Let me and my reverie and figure out what the hell's no worship

at the moment. So I knew that the press has been gathered outside her house. It hadn't occurred to me that the bathroom might be proximate to where the press was gathered, and so I opened the curtain to cut a check out like I wanted to be done with your meeting and then as soon as I open. I see like the back of Aung San Suu Kyi and her her should have beautiful burmese fabric in the back of Obama and his suit in the back of a podium and there they and they have just started their press conference and, unlike behind what, with the curtain and You know two inches more wired to the very big news shattered glass, is brought to buy zip recruiter, hearings heart it just is big time we're ten of having this right now because or Canada

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That's a no brainer! Yes, I think I can just put it on everything and not feel guilty. The never settle make every bite of food exciting. You can find primal kitchen in your local grocery store or visit primal kitchen dot com. a shudder glass to learn more. I will say that pumping does give you that, reflecting on your life a because there eight physiological good feeling we look at the dopamine or knock citizen release that would the let down that they talk about, but also I found that I had some of my greatest thoughts and also this is another feeling I wish I could bottling give to people my husband used to say: why do you exclusively pomp, when my guy friends or over and unlike me, so sorry, sir I dont exclusive this, where Israel

then for young exactly I was like. Let me just be clear. I pump when I need to pump if your friends are over that's irrelevant because again, I think that that was given to me that privilege was bestowed upon me from being an actor when I went back to work after getting pregnant I said I can come back and I'm gonna need. You know every three hours eminently to go to my trailer for twenty minutes and they were like great. I had the leverage, so I just want women that choose this path. Of having a baby and, in addition pumping have the leverage to be able to say that, and I want the people on them to know how important it is that just women on earth have the leverage, because they're making more people on earth did he without yeah? We sometimes forget that. Did Obama break your water not live with

visit Calais, Hatchet, doing ok by anything of that, the only manually break it yeah did immensely break it. What a star so I like many working parents, worked right up until the last minute wanting to get as much as I could. I had in an earlier book of mine, written at some length about the armenian genocide in the urban campaign four presidents. I had sort of taken advantage. I suppose of the fact that I had very good ties with your media in american community and I had offered assurances that, if elected president that all bomber would reckon

as the armenian genocide and then I got into government and I was massively outnumbered and it was very hard to actually get the issue before the president was those lairs I mentioned earlier. I thought if I could just talk to present Obama himself, that maybe you know I knew he'd be pretty torn up about it, because there were costs in both directions, potentially an I just never had the chance to to make my case, but I I found myself in the last week in April travelling with him and I wasn't sure legal. I stand back with staff with whom I worked on the speech. I had the opportunity. The vip section B were being very nice to me and work and sit down being pregnant everything I kind of hemmed in hard and ended up getting separated from the staff and the vips such that I was like, or

and backstage at this event, which you never want to do. I have a security guard. He comes up in his like man. Can I help you and the next thing I hear a voice, irrecognizable voice behind me say I shall be relaunched, she's with me and it's the president and his on his way to the men's room. And he sees me I haven't seen me one or one relations have been president and bigger. the baby and he knows Casper really long time as they talked together. The Irish got those who the hell are you going when you do at this very friendly and but my response is, I'm really worried about the Armenians, and so I took this like beautiful little personal hello moment and unfortunate rooted it and, of course he was really conflicted about it and when you're conflicted that can make all of us, I think a little more. Maybe too

server and- and I wasn't wasn't good form of me when he was being friendly and in general and in government you should have all viewpoints represented rather than just kind of gulf. You no kind of corner somebody and then try to convince them like it's sort of bad, even by me, if somebody else had done a kind of bad form, and so we talked about it he's a very tense discussion and I think we'll hit me. The hardest was not that I didn't prevail and answered of convincing that this was a risk worth bearing, but it was more the finality of it- and I think, that's a big difference between being an activist on the outside a journalist, then and then being in government when you lose and fail in government like there's no door number two, you know it's not like there. Some other place where this kind of thing is going to get addressed, or some other room with the President of the United States outside of men's room. So I call I did it myself and luckily,

all cast an eye like he's, not gonna call John, so CAS agreed to meet me at all. Three corner and and really refrain did as the way you kind of have to do. If you work on causes that sometimes feel appeal, which is you have to value the fight, a growth mindset, and you just I'm so proud of you and then I began to feel a little bit voice. If you say so about, is this just as I was so hard and I was scanning and as it is and so at a certain point I called the darkness an exam early like a month. I'm not supposed to this isn't suppose we Hamburg and feeling like a little like over here and sure enough when it happened, precise, in the sequence but I guess my water broke and the consequence of that is that my little boy tat one who was meant to be born a few weeks into me I was born on armenian genocide remembered stay

why so, as it happens, this was April. Twenty third, the data for the statement was to be issued. We talk about what it means I advocate on behalf of things you believe in, and we talk about what happened and hampered memory is, and I ve no, we didn't know when he was like forward The genocide per se, but now is even asking about that. It had a very happy ending in my life was immensely frustrating for people who had come in on me in prison. Among some hoping will get that right. While I have no evidence that President Obama broke my water, but I will say I have no evidence that he did and fair when I was pregnant with my

a child. I was definitely like nine and a half months pregnant and standing in the bathroom, and talking to my husband and my water broke right onto the bathroom floor and I was like oh my gosh. It's happening it's happening and we call her doktor and I said: ok, so my water just broke and she goes ok great, come on into the hospital nose like ok, I'm starving we're, gonna stop and get lunch first, real, quick and she was like. Don't recommend that I was like again I'm starving I need to so we stopped but a restaurant and the whole time at the restaurant. I'm going to be honest, maybe it's maybe I'm a warrior, but this it's like not that bad being in labour. Like I'm fine, I'm meeting like Chile key lays and loving life. We drive that a hospital an hour and a half later and we get there and, unlike and unlike laid on the table on my doctor, my who is a very good friend of mine, Doktor Hakata. She a zone- and she was like her and I go what's her and she goes on

water broke and I was like you know. I definitely broke that definitely broke all over the bathroom floor and she goes okay. Tell me this: can you feel this and I was like nope? She can you feel this know? She goes hey, so there's a lot of pressure down here and I think what happened is that water, didn't break you PETE your pants and you didn't know her and I was like, why and I as it turns out. That was correct. I had simply peed on the bathroom floor, but I was just on a air because the baby would allow arrogant heavy out was so arrogant. I would like Amazon for lunch, whereas this is great labour, so easy and not painful that wasn't at all the case, I had simply just released some urine onto floor and I were worried worried throughout my recent career, about, over sharing. But I'm,

hunger I use alibi now that far and in a new place I knowed notice imperiously over share with someone so much over time, but I do have one more practical question for you, because you know no one has done this more than you learned how to talk to men. I just we watched the final year and I was like, oh my god, it's just Samantha in all these men and she is to convince them of things and have them listened to her and take her seriously, and I mean just practically you: how did you do that? How did you Make yourself heard in a way where people would listen. I'm not know ever been asked Vanessa question. I'd say first and foremost- and this is just relevant in any form of persuasion which is made people where they are right, so is not what their position is, but what they're coming from one of the things I write at length about,

The Balkan that that meant lot to me was even if it didn't produced then that I saw much of the time but was negotiate for example, with the russian ambassador, trying to convince Putin's representative here to do a set of things that were oriented and more humane direction than they might otherwise have gone now required meeting him where he was. You know what were the imperatives that were coming from President Putin of all people. You know from Moscow what are his incentives and disincentives? How do you put yourself in in his shoes? Even if, in certain respects you don't really want to be one in his shoes- and the same was true, interrupt the: U S: government, where the gender dynamics were more pronounced, at least in the early years of the Obama, missed

where you were surrounded by men more often than not, and it really was. It was again not to just hear what their position was, but to just try to think. Okay. Where is that, coming from, we share the same universe of values and often when you're arguing with somebody, you could find some couple of abstraction, where you could agree completely and it's only when you drill and live a bed and so to try to remember you haven't common, but but really try to hear what they need. I think is part of it, because that's how you would Taylor your message, then. Second- and this may be something

are more prone to do than man, I'm not sure, but excessive over the top over preparation? So just you can't you, you know for the for the big meetings and the big debates for me to have up my sleeve, the not only the robot, all factually the facts that are gonna strengthen my case, but the rebuttal to the rebels to some always be playing devils advocate yeah. You make the best argument when you can anticipate the argument on the other side and who do you know just taking again a band with issue, but taking that time and with your team thing, ok, they're, gonna this? So then what what facts do I have to deploy in other than that are gonna help? And then, lastly, unless you really do have to sort of No! Your audience, I suppose, and gets to meeting people where they are about stories and the human connection, which really has been kind of filtered out of many many institutional discussions. I say institution Robin government, as I'm sure,

from business. I'm sure it's true and entertain men at the management level by it there's a way and not always in the meeting itself? But you know if you have let's say not him making is eating woman who survives ices attacks and sexual and slave men to or somebody who has worked on the front lines of the above all at the damage. for you know. Somebody now, in the covert context, too, is giving vaccines to people by doesn't have enough go around and isn't reaching low income communities or isn't reaching developing countries, but those personal testimonials that kind of can The way in which you have undermining with Republicans and Capitol Hill, on a democrat- and might you know this is my view on this issue in that issue,

rather than all we're both immigrants or we're both parents or we're both rats. Austrians were both Catholics, and so sometimes it's that that human, something that because shakes up the atmosphere and takes you out of that institution, space yeah. You have given us so much time and I want this to go on forever, but I do want to say one last thing. You know in your book. You brought this word up, stander a line between a bystander and something you call and have denoted it as an upstanding end in my daughter's school their highest to claim their reward is an upstairs and I remember her coming home in kindergarten him. First grading going ah Johnny won an up standards and it was like Johnny was hey. It's like he won the abstained or award, and then their picture goes on the wall and why there an upstanding because he believes in helping someone on

they ground when they're having trouble it's. You know, they're, all small events that happened in elementary school kids life, but the idea of that word has infiltrated so many communities in so many people, I think greater than you even know the lease of witches, my daughter and the way they operate Their schooled up stander is like winning an Oscar. Then I wanted to say thank you, for that is awesome. That's definitely the only thing. I've ever done that my daughter takes pride in but upstanding and by standing we all live on that spectrum right on our, nowadays we stand up and maybe many more days we stand by the rover wound, but to have them aspiring from young too. They have more good days the nod and love that Thank you so bearing like good luck in your new job. Thank you. and if you need any help with hedge funds in the future however, there are issues in the world, and this is one.

you guys, suffer.