Hello, everybody, welcomed armchair expert. I'm Dac Shepherd, I'm joined by Monica Patman in Wabi web, your third instalment in the good place week is make sure he's an incredibly special show creator. Everyone, ever worked for him loves him, which is a reputation, that's almost impossible to get as a show runner running. The show is by far the hardest thing in show business people give directors, alot of credit and needs

you show runners all the credit yeah front raw muckle, honey, you're beasts mode of Euro Show Runner Meriwether everything yeah your favorite mini killing. These people are meets that their work machines so to execute that job. It's hard not to break a lot. Eggs be especial person to be loved and he is universally loved now. As of reflecting on this episode, because we we too slowly record these over the course of time, knowing we were gonna put em all one week. This is a while back yeah and he and I get into some debates that of sense had with other guests ray. I want to say my positions even evolved a bit, maybe maybe There are some retread, that's just a warning. I haven't devolved. I guess that's. I felt compelled to say that tat in a little while yeah, but yeah get in. I really like to talk to him about what's funny: what's not funny I note the guy who feel disappointed or tired of any of these conversations, cause MIKE brings of various specifically Driscoll.

Out of conviction. He is, I love hand. So my dear son, over them yeah, I am, I think, he's one of the cruellest most evolved people, yeah. I really do I think, he's self aunt ass, take any well tail when you listen about. Yes, they often being honestly not only landing at occurred to me until just this moment there, maybe there's a tiny bit attention with the fact that my wife loves him too, he's the other man in her life. We spent a lot of time together and yet he is head over heels for him as he deserves to be had over heels over you, two or at over. He also he's kind of. Maybe I was feeling little competitive that you guys love him so much and I'm just this cave man,

webs my ass- would bark yeah he's not a kid Lubs he's an ugly man, yet we ve picked opposite lanes. Let's just say that in our approach to be an attractive but anyways, I have a total respect for him. He is so smart and he's such a brilliant writer and again then amazing leader, that's basically will show runner, as he's empowers people on he's a great guy whose names Sure- and he is up now We are supported with love by vital farms, so excited but the sponsor they wrote Us Cuba is no extent they migrate there. They sent us some personalized mail, and it was so cute and maybe even he descended because we actually use vital farm eggs at the house. My wife very, very ethical and our food chairs yeah and she knows, cage free, that's bullshit! I gotta do to be labelled, cage, free

is the have. I have one square foot space indoors now that some horse shit yeah, that's not real vital farms are pasture raise hands. That means they, Rome, free outside and a hundred Nate Square feet a sunny space there their role in the green grass, breathing that fresh air forging for food floor. That's one another door, some eggs and eggs are much better. Would you agree they're much better there, not that long. We'll thin, yellow color in the yoke. It's a deep Orange rich circle are so nice. Beautiful yoke and the package it is so fine, listen taste, what it means to be bullshit free to get your Cuban for vital farms. Pasture raised eggs had two vital farms: dot com, Slash Dax, he's

Make sure welcome to the armchair expert. Thank you This is the early a swamp we ve ever done in it. It was a concession to your busy schedule. So I just want you to know that the, but you know you have a lot to deliver on. I also have I have pull with your production team. You dear you're, on the inside you're, so what I have said this in the interval, but obviously make sure is my wife's boss. So the stakes are high, Hi for me, because you're supposed to be nice, your spouses, bark, I say, she's calls me boss, you're in person and its it makes me feel absurd lead as you like. I do it it's I mean she's doing it obviously a little bit jokingly, even though legally technically it's true, it's true of alchymy boss, it

feel like. I wanted giggle inflaming among your boss, that's crazy in general. Do you not think of yourself as a boss or just her boss? I dont think of myself ass, a boss of anyone except the other writers yeah. You got up with them and to shape it here, but also you know, tv production is such that there are many bosses there at the real boss of the show is the line producer, who kind of oversees the hiring of much the crew runs the ship real, who is Morgan, sack and Morgan yeah. I've had the pleasure of being around Morgan and he has a superpower that we discussed at your house had dinner one time which is gives zero feedback. If you make it looks like Mount Rushmore, you got held the world's best joke and he would stare at you. You might say that's funny, but he will not laugh rise. He is an Easter island, head of a man. What he's he looks and talks like New England, Patriots, head coach, Bilbil jobs

please I just Gimme Bela Chat, yes, and, and so the yes he, but when, because he is so taciturn when you do get him the laugh, you feel like a world gently exactly well, that's what I want. I wondered if there is something to his lack of feedback. That is appealing to you because for me, as a comedian, I'm just an approval junkie. Here? I am. I want I'll run around and just that my pay as you smiling, so when he doesn't smile at me, it just makes me you hit the throttle. Hard I mean one like you find yourself just like tat. And saying that if you remember daffy, duck cartoon we're like he comes out, any tap dance is any ends. His tapped is manic tap dancing by thrusting his arms out and looking at the audience breathing like a happy today around people who don't give it up, but I'd like that, how I always in a failing and I had em. I think I recommended to him at that dinner that he should just take class.

That you see be, which is a common. Fear, because surely there be lots of female comedians that would now be able to make him laugh and that would be a superpower. It unto itself riding yelling. If I had had that foresight when I was going through the groundlings, if I just stayed stone face, I probably could of done so well. You describing the prithee like the game thing of like making people basically- oh that both the game of me how to get laid with that part of. I believe, in my view, that a term nagging nagging command was like you. Just don't don't like a lot, don't praise any wandered are used to tell them that their not funnier, but I think that's bad, eyes. There was, of course it is not all that. No no, it is, I assume, somewhat effective if the persons in a brutal junkie right, because that there is also an old Richard gear quote. I want to say and like

that either the american Gigolo or something which was treat queens like whores and horse like queens. You remember that I need is a terribly lassie on the voting list. A currently all of like, like all of that book and like most quote movie cuts in the seventies. It just is a kind of Brandon the sergeant I have no interest in trafficking, arise right, right, anxiety, yet What say? Look on this huge spectrum of like liberal or conservative or progressive, or what not, I think of myself is you know sixty percent, just a bit left of him ok and then I think, you're beyond me, laughed right, yeah yeah in characterized by the opening bars of this conversation that what is established but you are you are you are particularly in by the way I admire it. So I applaud it. I dont know my we I have some weird fears. I guess

in some of them- and this is a great question for you is, I feel like we widdle. Away more and more of what can be made fun of just generally speaking, You mean like in the seventies to your point. You could have got a fucking Portuguese. That was a movie, everyone loved it. You know, whatever could do racial humor. You could do sexist humor. You could do pretty much anything. The sky was the limit for better or, worse, are not seen. It should be that way now, but I guess I do have the slight little fear that we're getting more and more and more more narrow on what were allowed to actually make fun of well. Ok, I would take up a thing. Is number one: when you say you could do this cutting homer or you could do that? Guy humor, the Deaf in our view there is white men right I'll, ask when used when it's like the the the people who lament the loss of the ability to make fun of certain things are almost always the dominant power position. People who have who never have?

on the other end of it re right, there's, never been alike, and that's why the those arguments are always people on the far right often make this argument of like what, if they're wipe what, if we had white history month or whatever, What will take the mother fucker everybody's? Why does everyone? Yes? Oh well, so when you so that now that the first thing I say about that general idea, the second thing is, I don't think anyone is interested in making the world less funny. I think that the question is constantly now, as people are like waking up to some kind of systemic calcified injustices in a number of different ways in that society in which we live. The question is like: like: are we going to continue to block

only make fun of entire groups of people without considering the consequences are considering the meaning of it are considering the effect it has on people, and I make my point is always know we're. Not we shouldn't be doing that. What we should be doing is saying like, oh, I am, I think, the trade off of now. I can't make the same kind of jokes I made in the seventies annexed. The trade off you're, getting his entire groups of people, don't feel marginalize. The old I feel like we gotta take that quote hit I'm just not make those jobs anywhere and also you might need to be a little less lazy. It's probably the lowest, hang intrude on the tree right swords. Right and drive you to come up with the even all know, genre, maybe of calm, and if you want, I mean I think now, even like looking back at movies like you, Will you I forget how old you seventy one you're sounding on forty three, forty? That's it we're almost executives, immateriality too so lucky you I get. This thing

unconsciously or summons more successful than me. I just got other holding his immediate release, New, or at least forty five, forty two by not that you look forty five years that you know your your accomplishments, told me he's he's gotta be alert mean it's kind of the point is like when I go back and look movies, a you and I that from our childhood yeah, it's whore its horrifying to me the jokes and are made in the way it is yeah like, and I don't want to specific examples, but there is letting go. Just talk about did flights. Is that one of my favorite movies? That's why I love that yeah yeah right time. Five year it was some others that we love well, for me was a ghostbusters allege. I was I didn't know I wasn't in the Caddy Shack Animal House. I wasn't that into that yeah, those movies, a garbage in terms of their politics, our guy and there they had a political now, then

I dont mean. What I say politics I don't mean like expressed politics. I just mean like those kinds of jokes they traffic in half and also by the way, like you know, is think about all of those movies where our, whereas any non, I do in those monies, whereas any were Non white writer non wide director, nonlinear actor, like think about flesh. Think like there's. No reason that you know that there is one african american actor I move. He plays a junkie right, it's like that's or the beginning, yeah. His aim is like Bobo, where something is a fun name, yeah by the way that I'd be reiterated, that you haven't found that's what kind of his character or black actors as they allow. While ok, you could say that, but but but on the exact same time is that movie also of Eddie Murphy movies in you, so they're they're playing here and by Eddie Murphy, I mean goat. You try to watch some of his staff specials now man. It is not easy. They re not! Yes, he he! He is not nice thing

to save a gay people- Algeria's you're, not area, so it so that you know. That's all I'm saying no. When we were kids with wheat, this was that was just a world like I did it, So when I was in when I was in high school I directed plays and when I say plays, I mean like they were evenings one one you're, my junior. We did a Monty Python night in my senior year We did a Saturday lignite and in my life, what a comedy nerd with I'm you're doing that in high school. I you deserve everything you ve done away with. Most of us for money Python night didn't need scripts cause. We just memoranda. Has the house in theirs? In you know the famous lumberjack song demanded by dancing and I'm a lumberjack nam. Ok as work on lightness ape all day what happens as they start talking about how their thy, where high he I'm a lumberjack,

am I look at whatever I wear high heels suspended, broad it becomes about how their transvestites or cross dressers or whatever now and in the sketch they start screaming. The F word at the other, like the audience kind of of the sketched out screaming the F word at the man. Ok, and we just did that you had PETE, we had high school kids onstage screaming. That word is part of the sketch and now, when I think back on that, it's like I mean good Lord. I never thought for one second about how horrifying that is and now thirty years later, whatever it is twenty five years later, we would never do that in a million years. You would never do. Why had a sketch at the groundlings that I wrote with Hedge Nathan, where we were, we were in high school and we were gonna kids house and we were calling him queer and vague and all these things and then, as the sketches folding, we're like what are you doing in there room common you're fucking, beautiful

inevitably comes reveal were very, very unlawful charge. Our aim work using human being gay, but we are clearly in what we are now you know nowhere? That falls whose measurement, certainly what I knew no brochures we couldn't currently get through the beginning. This sketch before the turn is reveal a right, and I you know so its interests me, so you, when you watch, say Eddie Murphy, stuff right he's doing what he would. He would play a gay cop right, yeah the overriding aim, a whole Regina that and he had the that hold the whole first ten minutes of raw. I think its raw are just him in the leather suit saying, like you know, they're looking at my ass and that all the guy I mean it's obviously ironic, because he then later was pulled over for having a Trans trends prostitute in his car, with so like through knows what the psychology is there, the right there's, I think it's pretty tricks inherent, but I do want to speck I'd, take big leap.

Yeah. I'm gonna say that that's down by the idea that I mean there is a lot like he had at his classic. Like mincing gave voice was a pretty cool since they pose a character, he dared yeah yeah yeah, but so when you so when you're watching that you can't divorce yourself from today's reality right, you can't like just go back to being tan. Noah like I can't. I just showed Kristen really had no awareness of Andrew Dice Clegg right and somehow it came up and we started watching all the videos of him like from the beginning. You know lighting a cigarette for five minutes and then you know I've got my tongue up this chicks bell or love, I got you. Oh my god. It's you fucking love it because its first of all she can just she recognises what context the joke, serene maiden right, like that's, not hard for her to figure out that this thing at that time that the intention was not negative or evil,

c I I would. I would disagree, you would yeah. I think he was just that. I think he was just a toxic nightmare of a dude who it was like I'm going to. I sense a void for toxic, no negativity and I'm going to fill it like I hated him when I was you dear despised and life. I found him to be. I first of all. I didn't laugh at anything he ever did. Even when I was fifteen it and laugh now, and I and I didn't understand why people did laugh, and I thought his like Hickory dickering Doc hey I caught whatever I found, none of that funny and four, and I just I still haven't like I've. Never I sometimes I really quickly it was he not funny because, like when I was watching with my brother's a kid. He was clearly a bozo. He was not. There was not no part of it that thought that Andrew

is clear: the man on stage walked out on to you now fifth avenue in was that person. It was like look out preposterous, this you know generic New Jersey type character can go, and so it was clearly to us making fun of that stereotype of New Jersey do that, but that what that's not how you now I mean honestly I it may have been that I just didn't. I wasn't aware enough of the stereo type or something to even consider whether it was a mockery of that stereotype. I knew, as I didn't, find anything jokes funding. I thought his attitude was awful disgusting and I didn't I didn't. On a funny. Rind did make me laugh yeah, and so I and then I remember when he hosted s now and Nora done very famously said. If you, if you let this guy host on that, I'm walking and then she did and further for the rest of my life a bit like Norton,

the best love nor it. Yes, that was really historic moment ran, so he he hosted a kind of at the height of his body and a career, and there were protesters in the audience right yet and what was the fall? loud of that whole thing other than Nora. You say nor nor in nor done refuse in my memory. I hope I have this right nor had done refused to be on the show and in fact left the shall. I think that her last show was the week before he was, I think, and the end of what I think the real fall out was he sat. On the other hand, I think that was sort of at the peak of his popularity like right that week that he hoped it was like he had hit the mainstream aimlessly. What really took him downright is. He then went on our Senor Hall. He cried that's right. That was the actual and, like you, I believe there is even a documentary about it, but he cried in. So I would say this is in defence of my point, all of a sudden

We went through this is weird that he's a character, but now he is he's out, there is introduced clay, but now the real human being not playing the dice character is crying and our arsenal and then just shattered everything for all of his fan. Some teasing yeah like it there's something you know profound about that whole thing in some way. I don't know yet what the gleam, for I have zero sympathy. Yeah, I don't care, I think these terrible person. I don't want him to succeed wrath you ever hear, amongst turn now I'm. The stern gal your now now I miss Stearne, somehow highly. Have you any grubbing, Connecticut Europe in Connecticut? But I wasn't I just didn't my dad was really in the stern and he would listen to him. Some. My parents split up when I was nine and he my dad was living in southern Connecticut and when I would go to his house

for the weekends like he would cause. It was being broadcasts out in New York at any or he would get it in the Ark yeah right by four. I just kind of mister. I just didn't quite for whatever reason and you d- probably if you didn't like dice, was he may be too massaging mystic is oh yeah, I think, rowing bologna peoples. By the time I like, by the time I kind of like dabble, I could get into stern at all like New who he was and he had gone national and stuff. I think it was probably the same problems so that each time a strippers, unlike aha, just like I, it doesn't offer me yeah. So I think I might have told you the story already, but Bell had

in a similar aversion, Tis Howard Stern and am I had done the show- and I really got along with them- and I liked him and then I wanted to he was in town and we got him bite. It got dinner and Christian was like absolutely not I'm not going to dinner with the guy. You throws bologna at women's ass, shone like I get it there. He is a different person than the character on his show rang whatever I beg her to go to dinner with him, and then we sit down in. He starts asking her questions and within forty five seconds, I'm seeing that she has its glow about hasn't. Had since the first two months we were dating in, she fell head over heels. Love them and has since been to his house without me, like my dad was second like we gotta cancel the trip to Howard's house, and she said

No, I'm still got out, and what will you do? I love him. I think our Howard Stern is to me as a very different thing and candidates. Clay slate me was a one trick pony and the trick wasn't that interesting. Howard Stern, is a talented deeply. Talented. Personally, I have an immense amount of talent to do what he does all idea and I also more frankly believe in the idea that he is playing a character than I do with energized clay I think entered with clay was a toxic asshole. Who was, I got fame and money for being a toxic, asshole them and then ran out, and then he was done. Howard Stern is obviously a pick out. He's broadcaster he's ideation, who it who has a deep Isabel Murray Leah Letterman, he did. I tell you Great Howard, stern story We gotta move I'm running late date, diamonds, my so how it by so my my wife is reaches Philippines daughter, I was gonna bring

as I have done so rich, so stern used to kill, Regis avatar just make fun so much fun of em and just Reno. Of course he did right, so one day and an Regis you know is a New York hero at the time, and people are kind of saying, like hey Howard, did this idea gathers ago? Ok, the really care or doesn't really know. What's going on so Howard Buddy, nobody's aware that Howard is just killing him on the radio yeah. So Howard, moves into reduces building who buys like the beat of the pen house, building and one day therein the elevator together and they get on and stirring it in and its awkward and redescending says also a gigantic here.

Deference jellies. If would they never speak and we just have a thirty second shot of them. Take me of it or not, is already a golden story girl from my name as planned. Hated it had. Any brothers is, oh, I M so Howard says as a reach turned him says: Howard, we just fell, but how are you and Harris's high Regis and he goes Hake show. Yet you know to the building. I can I show you my. Let me show you my apartment and hearts is real k, so they get off a reduced this floor and he walks in any region shows round. The apartment tells him how long lived to tell him of the neighborhood. One thing leads to another: there become friends and Howard goes on the show the next day, and he says I was totally wrong, I'm straight out of money on this guy's great, he showed me run his place. He so charming his wife joys, so lovely by abolishing just totally winsome over it's like that. That is to me there's two things too. Note about that one is that to Regis. Now that's exactly what I was going to gonna. Like I pray, I could hear

No, it's a situation like that. I don't think that's The other thing is to me: that's that's. What makes Howard morbid human being then than I ended as half of his current gas are people had law? standing. Wars were like I'm Donald on the show. All the time they had like a unit was in the papers that what they would say about each other and then that that is you know he he's here. Donation that I have to imagine you find yourself in a little bit, which is he he has had to face a lot of, because we can all get. This gear were he's like on the radio he'd you dont, think anyone's hearing. You is dumb. As that sounds early. A lot of people are hearing him, but he's not actually thinking these things he says about. Regis are gonna. Get to him.

And in the end they do, of course, and then he he's running into these people, and so I think a big part of his life has been bumping into people who use them. You know rough on yeah and what we used to have this problem. It s an owl, sometimes because s analysis, whole world view eyes too. So I worked there from ninety eight too, oh for random, that you no part of the part of the world view of us. Now, as it were, that where the scrappy underdogs forget about the fact that she has been on the efforts for videos, music, so peaceful, jiminey history, it's too it has. These had elaborate downers. It hasn't what has the attitude of like it's the middle of the night? No one's watching worthy irreverent, underdog like where that, where the little brother kind of punch in upper whatever and but occasionally so I produce, we can empty when Jimmy found into effect-

we're doing a lawyer. I would get is pretty cat each year and not, but also like you know, Jimmy was a rocket ship, even at the time he be his his level, a faint I watched him go from. You know. On the end of the first week, he was there. Obviously, in the first we're getting ones there you go out and have a drink in a bar is the caste and writers got no one recognises you yeah for up for it. Episodes later he had played the guitar and weakened up day for the first time and was like instantly, I think, right, right arena, and then, a year later it was like this is the most famous guy in the show it having for failing to happen more quick than anybody else. Elderly I've ever seen. Yeah least what I was indeed tribute that to him being so q yeah. He we had oral needed impressions and he sang songs in it like a tar used, you just like he was Sandberg had a similar thing amber was in the same but it, but he didn't read that didn't really happen for Sandberg until until lazy Sunday,

which well or the right significantly more than four episodes into his Italia. But anyway, what would happen is Tina and Jimmy would make jokes about whoever the biggest people in the in the country, but pretty quickly like we will be producing. You know the segment in some I have a joke about some big star and it would be like you would see in Germany or teen his eyes. I can't do this. I know that personally, I am in its dicey, because the whole, the world of personnel is the world of being irreverent and telling the truth to power and all that sort of stuff, and it's hard when the people who are doing the joked are themselves kind of in this power structure earlier in our lives, and it was an interesting one who's, gonna, say yeah. Why I one time had a movie coming out against the order. What's this the long series like the undesirables there's more than one and what is that

give you a guy every guy. When muscles in the version, I do, I'm gonna accidentally go back into this time at a wide, and now I can only think undesirables goods by wasted. We do with your own. Where we have, rob, give us the at the end. I suppose now said that it is not the untouchables expense. They were of man undesirable, such a better name. It really so I remove a movie coming out against the forty three. The arrivals airboats, and I was on a continent in- I was saying, like you know, don't go see that movie see my movie bottle and then its amount spiraled into like me saying that those guys are really muscular and that, but I dont think they can move quickly like us. Much as you can inflate your muscles? Your tenens urges all writer, so this whole thing of, like you know,

lay down in his bed and fight me. You motherfucker delighted that he was in areas where the other, either to lay down in a bed, invite a guy or walk over a kick your ass. Anyone. I did this thing and then I had all this like a little people on Twitter were mad at me, of course, that are fans of sly Stallone. I too am a fan of sliced a letter, but I just thought: oh wow again, this comes back to my fear. I thought you can't make fun of the most hyper alpha six four men. If you can't make fun of like the pillars of success rates, drank who the vote? Can you make fun? Yes, yes, a hundred percent and I feel like it's your job. If you are one of those people too, all of the hit two reaches velvet. The invite a mother fucker into your parliament want a nice guy you and also to just laugh at it like. If you are a few, are a like you now, forty year, veteran of Hollywood, who is bad, nothing, but success and happiness for the most part in your career

yeah. You get everything, that's amity and I take it. You smile that I'd like that cause you're you're, behind that success, you're you're, a human like did you see the Cary Grant documentary now I was really great it. He had a famous quote. That was a lot of people want to be Cary Grant, not one of them. Which is its both funny and super true, because he was like an orphan kid. In England he changed his name on a boat to come here. He wasn't really Cary Grant, nor did he was he able, like most of us, can internalize were up. People were on the outside saw of him or the level of success

for all that stuff, he couldn't internalize and he was doing them lsd therapy once a week on a couch at the height of his popularity and fame, because he didn't feel like that person right. So it is hard you know to ever go like wild fuck, it I'm Cary Grant. Let's let him have a laugh on my account if an aspiration old goal, but it I don't think it's easy. Why don't you know it's not supposed to be easy? None of them. I suppose to be easy, but I I have this the older I get the more I have this feeling of like look. If you, if you're a especially feel like a white dude in America, you're, it's like you started by winning the lottery like see out there. You start by just like I'm a white man in America, Lang wow that can I'd better, I'm in the top one percent of human beings alive on earth and didn't I tell you I that concept, although I a hundred percent agree with it, we had joy Brian on and we got into this at length, although I think it's in arguable that white privileges of facts,

Questions especially and mail? I mail, and what there is no question that I had a leg up. The reason the concept is it easily embraced by people is that no one's life feels privilege real one feels like someone knocked and their Doorn handed them a fuckin writing job and rationale right. So I guarantee your life was very challenging to do all the things you ve done. So it's it there's a couple things one is. It feels a little bit like your diminishing my accomplishment and in a little bit feels like all this was given to meet with which it wasn't it's hard to see the gradient of of how you know what advantage you actually had our how much harder it would have been if you weren't a white male absolutely and that, and that is the jet- that's what I think people are asking for. What we are asking for is, please realise how lucky you are right at the gates

You shouldn't, I don't think, there's comes easily and I think it comes like naturally, of like you wake up all the time when Europe do no fourteen and go like while I'm of white boy in America, so little joy reset all its white boy. They always white boy. They every day, which I love, yeah land from solid height, and I think that is that's. What this is about to me is the request that you realise it start realizing and start thinking about. Yes, Guess what I'm saying is. I wish the messaging was a little bit different. I wouldn't have done messaging was a little what there was ever a better way to ease this council, then they re mean that your privilege, if, if you live in a trailer park in Fuckin Louisville in year, you you have never met your dad in your own welfare. I find that kid. I'm like you, don't fuck you a hundred per cent yeah. There's a nuanced difference in that: it's not it's, not that your privileged. If your white, it's that being white, is a privilege there that's different and by the way, that's a great angle right there, which is. It feels very specific, impersonal to you. It helps when it's

just a condition of white peoples that make sense like there is adding, there's a radio lab on this, where Google and there are rather Facebook there reasons you could list for why you wanted a photo taken down of you heard this part can now there was a man, a real abbot. Usually, if you didn't If you want to be taken out of someone's photo, you wanna take him down. There is like a drop down menu. You could check. You know the reason why in in regionally when they made It- and it said I'm embarrassed and when said: I'm embarrassed, no one checked it in the neighborhood put and other category and people would write in it's embarrassing. Right. I mean they were writing it in so frequently that they decided. Oh, let's change it to its embarrassing began to say I'm embarrasses of vulnerable thing to say I'm embarrassed, but if it's, if you can say to you- objectively embarrassing when I don't have to be vulnerable to site. Will this is fucking? He won't would agree. This is embarrassing right and I think there's some

now get in there about this white privileged. Nevertheless, if it wasn't a personal thing where people felt like it, it's not it's his people take it personally, they make a defensive, but it's not it's just saying it's a privilege to be a wise person in America and it is yeah and an eye, but I also completely agree with you in the sense that it is not that it is not the job of all white people everywhere to start from that place, because There are millions of white people living in abject poverty Leon below the poverty line living in terrible circumstances, because some aspect of the country or this or the world has failed them. That's so it's nice was a rural. Get away in my town are my two best friends living. I can promise you the horrors that existed

or were round or with any him, and so so the point is not to say: hey. Every aspect of your life is privileged because its objective- we not true, invented subjectively, not true for most people, what the ask is- and it's not a big ask- is to stay. Consider the fact that, because you are white, there are certain aspects of the work You don't have to worry them yet likened, though getting hold of orange and yell. So I will say in my town where there was rural ghettos, poor people got tree like shit like. If you get, you saw the old clunkers on the side of the road, all the time, with the cops harassing those people rang, didn't hurt because a more can have insurance and a minor had summoned the car, Like there were a lot of all the exact same indicators of why they harass other people,

They were doing that and in May it may were. Certainly you know at the mercy of police just like they are in Russia in the city bites the F B, I think of it like this. Think of it like a hundred point scale. Ok and every person has every white person in America has two it is going to try to in. In sort of engage with his her privilege at some level between one and one hundred right. Aha, for you and me, you'd acts in me, Mikey a hundred absolutely a hundred yeah based on socio economic standards in the city. We live in an hour situation for those people who Europe in your kid. I no longer has the right of fucking, my kids honey. I think our kids a red lightning.

It has already been Oliver Nepotism, whereas in other yes, don't getting married a good script, I won't fight to get I'd. My son is a Dodgers fan and when the Dodgers made the world Series, it wasn't a question so glad you, pitches starting a third, came to release a picture in order, but he, like I mean they his the mount to which his life is better than my life is short, already he's ten and but that's a word. A hundred, our kids are at all at a one night. It's our kids, like in STAR Trek when Scott Over, like I'm, are murdered, giving it a hundred and seven Kirk would say given a hundred and ten of us are at art, but that those people in your rural village in your rural, get on your town going up there if they might be it a two hour yet so it's like they there's the it's in its We in very very very specific circumstances that any reasonable person would ask them to consider their privilege yeah. So it's it's not like it. Doesnt work, it's not ones

it's all. None of this stuff is even now, but I don't think that's part of the messaging. It wouldn't hurt anyone to make that point. I totally agree with- and I think that's part of this thirty percent or whatever that feels like you guys, have lost your mind. I'm not privilege, I'm not rise, I'm not that net. That's part of the issue of yes and I think it's an unreasonable asked on the part of people like you and me, for example, to ask that other people in other parts of the country with different circumstances, consider think about that think about privilege in the same way that we do it's not reasonable. They don't have it the same way. We do not know yes I'll, take it sick, it's like fucking life out there. Now, yes, and so I believe, you're right in that, like the messaging of it, especially from the left from the strident laughed and can be really bad and they can be like when you, when its subjects come up on, especially in social media or someplace. Where there's not a lot of new wants, it can be blindingly.

You bet ya, any I'm fine rank went out in the yard of stuff on the far left is equally is preposterous to me as the stuff on the far right, yes and end. The targets are. The targets are like the left likes to eat, its own, and so there yeah we lived. You only get you a large chosen. It was like. I can't wait like the guy that they were hugging last year. They can't wait tat light on fire, so it is. It is an absurd and unreasonable asked it to think of the concept of white privilege as the same everywhere in the world and it shouldn't it's a bad message. You right, support for arms. Your expert comes from a bee sees a million little things, which is a new show that Premiers Wednesdays September twenty six at ten or nine central. We

to watch the show. We day we are pre new. It's really fun to give us show on C p, I now we loved it a ton of people that I love Romany, Malka, who I worked with the maybe mama so funny and fund a watch and writer of man and very charismatic James Roadie, who I've also work with these exceptional on it, and you know like him out again. Why tell me, because I never just sign up for a comedy, for whatever reason I, like my dramas, but I miss Comedy Amiss is what we would call a drama, the marriage of both it's a wonderful mix of funny stuff. An emotional heartfelt stuff, and it's about four Best friends in there is an unexpected death and untimely death. That brings, them, together in a rapid. Profound way there

say it has some parenthood elements to. It feels a little reminiscent of that. Knowing how you feel about that. I know that's a compliment for renewal and little things is a friendship is one big thing: it's a million little things, Amelia little things, premiers Wednesday September twenty six at ten in nine central, and you noticed this concept of intersection reality. Are you familiar with an offshore? Tell me you're a girl. This came from a safe, mahars who's, the guy who came on evergreen those talking about those who use our favorite. He was Ratline brat wine steam he's professor agenda. He eat he. He was confronted by a bunch of students, follow a lot, but there's this thing about it sexuality, where is the the more characteristics you have that make you marginalize right low? So let's say your block, then let's say your female: it say your lesbian, let's say your training as these increase that

that increases your authority in this new system of equality can, and so those that, inter sexuality gets elevated right to the persons can have the most power in this move is the person with the most amount of intersection. All you know, marginalize address actuarial, I'm so nervous it. What words them choose but that to me and the very far left is scary to me right, I think that's where to me it starts getting a little out there and in crazy one one of the things that they talk about is

understand my story, but you can ever understand my story. That's a dangerous place to live right now. We can understand other people stores not to the degree that they can. But yes, we can understand other people that that's the power of story. You know I don't watch Philadelphia and I fucking finally understand what that life is like it is. It is fuckin hard and we, the change. You know like that. We can that that's the upside of all this shore, ass of how I felt when I watch ghostbusters, I feel like I finally understand what it's like to bust goes that's right. No one was no was talking about it burst in May, feel good. Lyric ever in a song. Boston makes me feel good. I mean it's sits, works on a lotta levels, it's one of the worst invest songs ever written yeah. So how did you you were born in armour baron Ann Arbor, Michigan right in ends. That's right down the road from me,

right, and how long were you in that? Were you there not long? My dad said my dad went to grad school there and he was getting a master's and then was planning on getting a Phd in linguistics. Oh wow, after he got a masters in linguistics. This is one thousand nine hundred and seventy six or something his adviser was like regulations masses linguistics, I strongly recommend that you stop studying linguistic argues on no one hiring crystal clear answers and he had the time is getting married at my mom and they had a daughter. I was away, I think, or maybe I just been born and he was like warm shit, so he just switched over it and went to the law, school and grab hours, or he was a philosopher like two more years after I was born in them. We left and moved it is of no Roman. Now, although I remain lorries in Eden, I remain

and Arbour, Michigan and Jan and Arbour reactor lay. I remained loyal, fiercely loyal to the mid term, universally Michigan sports. I wrote girl I've a ball team in the basque altogether. The ad was a woman's told me, that's the most popular Brandons in college football, as you, not least way. Yet her Notre Dame right, I would have thought that, but they said merchandising wise mind you. This was an alarm that taught us anything it s, not blush of a modicum of fact check. As I wouldn't guess it. I would guess it would be no Dame and Alabama one in two and then I would guess most of it is what's bay, most thing rolling tied all died as easy, as Gaddafi's can in no way Michigan. Well, look we'll find out who's. Monica fact: checks, rallies episodes, so are you? U grubbing kinetic, mostly Grubbin can't get any practice law, yes,

the lawyer he was a aid still to this day, except it's mostly retire, but he was a like a taxpayer like oil livelihood act so now and it was very boring he hated it. He hated his whole life and he I like to say that he's the only dad and suburban Connecticut history who told all of his kids that they could not under any circumstances, go to law school, my first experience was with this, was I did a student film in Ohio like eighteen years ago or sun, and one of the other actors who was It stand. Dana comedian had been a lawyer for like seven years and quit and I was dead broke and I couldn't comprehend quitting being a lawyer. He was like an intellectual property is attorney and he quit and he said to me- you don't want it every time I tell people I quit, they have the same reaction you have, which is. Oh, my god. Why did you do that? Because I've never told another lawyer that didn't say? Oh, my god I got it I got. I wish I did Yeah incense that interaction

it's been almost unanimous. Every lawyer of talks, you pretty much hates it it's crazy, and then I have a friend here in California who she had a kid and she she tried to quit or law firm, and she said I just can't there's no way. I can raise this kid right now and be learned. Is that what you have to stay? How about we take you to part time and she goes ok. What will that look? I would like for just forty five hours of others in that was part time. As a lawyer was forty five hours a week yeah. I think one of the thing is that the kind of new post like like I'm internet explosion economy has done, is ruined law firms, because I think when you, if you went to college of your high achieving kid- and he went to college in your ambitious all the way through, like nineteen, ninety three or some you went to law school? I was like a high paying job and whatever, and then you would go to a law firm. You would be a you know. You would Dexter.

Go your way through law school and then, if you're really ambitious, you would go you'd be a first year associate a law. Firms need work, a hundred and ten hours a week and eat sleep in the office just bleary I'd all this stuff and then you would slowly work your way up and you kill yourself in cars. Often you make partner, namely to the suburbs and by a big house, and then the one d like internet economy, exploded and suddenly There is an option that was like go work at Google and like where her whore you anyway, we yeah. I get a guy like, I think it I feel, like I read this article a long time ago about how, like maybe right after I gradually college ninety seven and there is the art of his being written, warlike law firms. White shoe hard core old tie me like me, media law firms were having like cater to their yawls. I was killed now he has. Can you imagine a sixty two year old, asshole lawyer boss? I am basically like gets like oh and almost sexual thrill from destroying our lives, our first eurozone. Having

do they need anything anymore, sprout building a break? Does everyone like ping pong, or should we go with suitable check? It out guys got an xbox that must have absolutely murdered. There was a good of on watch like closed circuit, video of above them telling the boss before the meeting. What he's gotta say? Look at my own. I know you want to keep circling back to this. You, your grown up babies thing, but that night I, like yeah, I was so I'd. Never consider that under no did you have what you wanna, be you let it be a race car? That's right! That's all I wanted to yours and you ve been able to live out that fantasy. I understand in large part. Yes, I have to the point where I had this very profound moment where I'm I had to two races on a weekend in Fontana here in California, last last race of the season. It was the first time blinking had gotten kind of sick where she was really snuggly in

fever and everything and so snuggling are all morning and then a certain points like all right. I gotta go to them. Please it's like an hour drive from my as the one then the entire ride. I was thinking how many trophies DEC What's a number, you mean a busy at one as it ate what are even going forward? Our does your fucking eagle me, but you just left you're cute little snugly baby here too, years ago, vainglory Darwin glory in a circle. So so I basically queer, but now I'm now back into now. I decided I I do. What I do want more Europe really getting reset, and yet somehow dissipated was failing is wrong for a while. So you so the same friend that went down to part time your friend I Christine Rayner, she went to Harvard LAW School and I have been in her company many times where people of asked her where she went to law school and then she has said I went to Harvard LAW School and almost a hundred percent of the time people go.

What and I have to watch them just patronize over above five minutes, and I ve ever since witnessing this. While I would have thought having graduated from Harvard. This is great thing to be like a fuckin racing trophy, but no it totally backfires might be. It is generally so threatened by this. Is it herbal saying where you went to college. So allow me to indulge in my privilege and complain about it is it is. Are we doing about going? It's a weird lose lose thing, because if you say you into harbour, that's the reaction, the end, if you say you went to school in Boston, which some people do not build our true in Boston or whatever, and then maybe with their aware, be you and then you get your dead at Harvard, and then they really want to Why don't you just it's either disable Harvard, and now you may use darling,

I'm an asshole where you go to school for giving. So, let's start yeah start from this a baseline harmonizing leeway ominous all. Do we need to talk about our yeah I mean I was on like seventy five percent of my education was paid for with financial aid are high, and so I did, I feel less. Poverty and bill. I feel less embarrassed about it because I do feel like I I they didn't like it. It's it's actually so sad that we as humans are so easily triggered in threatened yeah that sent something that is look I couldn't never fucking got into Harvard it wasn't wasn't within me of either was through the due diligence or you know, test scores, it's a huge account punishment and it's crazy that we hated if someone wins an olympic gold medal. Neurons are vehemently. What am I gonna get think I know exactly what we are some weird fantasy of had we can commit.

Did ourselves to learning the high bar whatever fuckin. Sharing that we could have. The other something about like intellectual feelings of intellectual, inferiority that really trigger something much more deep to identity. I actually say I think you're right, but I would rephrase it all up. I think that the reason we don't do that with a hundred meters. Ash winner, because I know what I'm not I'm, not that there is no, but Harvard is like why went to this college went to Harvard or Yale or Stanford a principle would ever and it. So it's like it's the closeness it's a remedy to it. That makes people get defensive or whatever a wild guess. I don't know if there's any true, there are so many things in life like this, like I will. I happened. Do on a talk, show mention that I dont gluten right sure and I dont gluten. I have sorry attic arthritis in it in flames. My joints, and the amount of people on Twitter that were, you know like

Oh you dirty glue, you know like they were they took. It is like that. I thought I was better than ever hear good for glee at that. I was to learn that exactly it and I think it's because you know all of us, be human is to wrestle with your diet. You know we have access to weigh more food and we was designed to have access to us. It is an issue for everybody right or at least ninety percent of people. So it's months seems to have elected. There is some weird it triggers like me back. I should have level fuck that guy off course it will you got money he can afford knotty gluten or whatever the thing. Becomes its is very trigger it, so we earn yeah, because I then tweeted, I also don't eat pickled herring you I know that a lot of things I don't do yeah well gluten, is now a it was for a while Caille and before I was

something else that is it is rightly it is stand in for a kind of like through fruit, allay life Lego likely being gluten free, regardless of whether it has to do with your actual physical wellbeing. Yes, that is like the o that the trend that the that's the wealthy allay kind of like drafty world well, but also it is a trend right and in so whenever there is a food trend people will be on and around you talk incessantly about, rose its consuming so much of their brain power in so It is seen as a way to get attention too. I think it triggers like attention giving it which we all, how I have it in spades but I think we hated and other people we note I love about gluten is like no one knew what the gluten existed like five years

Oh wow. Everyone talks about gluten all the time, but there's is a fascinating history of gluten, which was on numb stuff. You should now upon us eyeless new nine years ago, but there was a there was a concerted effort to deal with the growing population in the limited amount of anger ultra. Those happening in in in wheat was in reengineer right. I forget what year, but like an authorities or something yeah, and so the wheat were eating which you, so much more does have a significantly higher amount of gluten it right and then had ever had dragged maser, unities crop yell yeah. So whatever did go through the techno yeah mean and in in chains weathers. I care, member that guy's name, I believe, is indian or pakistani the scientists to engineer that wheat that, like disease recent blight resistant wheat, is like the reason that there are eight and a half billion people on earth like without in his iron. Try for war

because of my sorry to have to say that is one of the goods. One of those things about history that just flew by everybody or most people is like we wouldn't have the world would have not on the way they have got him in my eyes entered this week. That could be they can resist areas. In fact, so many of the least sexy historical things are worth mouse impact Volga. Yet you love history right. I do yeah and you once described to me you're ideal vacation just want you to walk through lower as this change your wife's do. I know where I deal with technically my wife's description of my idea. Vacation we're trying to plant this before we kids we're trying to plan a trip she, my wife, lights, beautiful, picturesque, sort of islands, a vacation at her dream. Tat bore Laura yeah,

Bora, Bora, yes, or are you just Hawaii or anybody places like warm and breezy and sunny you sit out and on a chair? And you read a book or you like go swimming, and then you go in a boat and whatever, and she described my ideal vacation is going to England and going going to a castle, England and reading books in silence. While it is raining outside. I guess fifty one degrees and rainy inside in the dark reading book in you have the perfect excuse to never leave their right. That's gotta be built the banana see, that's the rain. The re I'd Africa, even if we wanted to drive around and look at it happening, we couldn't you you'd love to go check out Winston Churchill's childhood home by the look into pouring out yeah. We can't possibly get these conditions, so you. How did you go from Harvard to writing? Answering life cassettes seems to be. Is it harder to become a writer uncertain, Iver Performer? What's the racial deprived, more performers and writers? No eyeing is more writers. All really I mean I obviously size. The cats varies, but they there's a lot of writers.

On the show and also by the way most of the actors are also writings guy we're not credit, is writers within a god, we'd have been only more so road for the Harvard Lampoon, which is their humor magazine, that code Ryan was annulled by the way. I know you hate stern Baconian had the best stern interview, or he told his whole history there at the lampoon really and how he Adam. He had tricked o Bill Cosby Young. You certainly know that story of undue they are, they decided to give him an award bill, Cosby and out you know it's coming out of Harvard, so it seems like a very steamed a war, but changes made it out to see if they could get him to come and up and he did and he went and picked up bill. Cosby from like a private airplane in his dad station and it was his him without us being too

handle earnest, and you know that the trophy was a bowling trophy Annie Legatee made us beads is holding. It is incredible that pretty pretty typical yeah so that that magazine, which was the delay which, where the national anthem came from all that stuff, so I wrote for that and I didn t I wasn't- I really got to college, they understood the right calmly professionally was a naturally you I like. Will Europe says what comedy as a kid you obsessed? Did you have fantasies of being a performer, always you want to be a writer, can always want to be a writer I mean I I did. I acted in high school in college, but I There is a moment I was in a play in college and- and I got really frustrated because I thought I thought to myself. I know how this is so This our and I can't make my voice sound, make its. I can't make the right sound. I can't make the line sound the way I want it to end the litter

the next thought. One third of a second later was: oh I'm, a writer from Iraq. Writer is right. If you know what did should be use Yahoo yourselves, you get someone else to do it for you. I had the same experience trying to draw a picture of the sailboat. When I was young kid, I will with this image, I was gonna drive, a sailboat it had like ten mass, and it was it was raining, and I said, trot this thing and it was you couldn't even look at him our house. I hope I can get the thing in my ad onto the piece of paper. It's very important with I think moment in every person's life. When I mean, I think I, if you would ask me when I was a senior high school, I might have said I want an actor. I think it's the moment that you realize you can't do something as such a powerful thing. It's like I'm, not good enough. Like rights. I remember the moment I realized. I was good enough to be a professional baseball player. Like idea I came up, I was, I love baseball. More than anything I was

thirteen years old I was in like Babe Ruth League- is what they called it, and I came up in a game in the bottom of the last inning, with the tying with the winning time run on second base and two outs and a and the guy struck me out on three pitches and it was a war. I was Good hitter is the first time I struck out all the year, the last game of the year when accounted an egg and out- and I remember sitting to member waiting for my mom- you can pick me up. I mean like yeah like if I were a professional baseball player fat. That's wrong, headed I would have just knocked and they re a u at a double dear ability, yeah yeah, yeah size ride. The defining characteristic of these great athletes is not even their base skill level, but how they perform in those crazy situation corps Seattle, like like Reggie Miller, hitting three Teresa nine point and twenty seconds here, every like it has the right of in, like a play off game no one ever so yeah I've I've. Well, that's it We have here by the way, which cannot comes up a lot as we talk to people which is having a bit of a flu

Identity is very key. I think is like when you're that aid, You may know general, like recognising, which way the rivers flowing. You know, like you, have this idea of yourself. I'm gonna be there's gonna, be a race car driver, but then other other than others other It's a proof. You know raining in that that you should probably acknowledge and maybe deviate a little bit like bs. Fluid is probably helpful, there's nothing in it when you're in a writers, room and you're breaking a story like there's a there's, a sort of weird zone, and I don't never really defined it or try to describe it, but you want You like you, want to hold on to targets for, like the season that you're talkin that you're in the middle of the episode you hold onto like these ideas, you think, are good ideas, noticeably lordly, quick jellies general. What happens MIKE sits down with all these writers and they say ok season, two of the good place at the end of it. We know that we want Kristen to be dead on an airport

we're gonna start with her here and we got it. We have fifteen episodes together. Their right in your ear you're you're, designing the architecture of that of the entire sees yeah you're looking so, especially initially the good play for good places, heavily cereal eyes, Joe you so breathing had a has to link up everything else. So really quick up acidic means it there. That's friends, you can just turn on an episode. You don't you see the one before doesn't matter to see the one after it's a stand alone. Cereal eyes is, you know, life anger. Is that pick up right after they left ass annually? by the way, could you follow me around and just described above, explain everything that I say to everyone. I talking either because all learning curve to me, because I'm I'm just speaking weird Hollywood, nomenclature, oldtime and I'm getting questions and I ran all I need to bring people.

Speech, rights of a good places, cereals, which means like, at the end of the first episode of a season, there's a cliffhanger and the beginning of episode to its programme to pick up right where they cliffhanger left off, and then we tell another story, and it leads to some other thing in that it's like one long, continuous Georgia broken up, so we always have to have in our heads a general idea. We do a lot of discussion at the beginning of each where, where we going can't, we can't march into this season blindly, if, if episode, Ays, linking directed episode, B and c and D, if you get Z and you dont know at sea is then you don't know you don't eat, making that it where your aiming gets very fuzzy and you will screw it up because of you. You will eventually take a wrong turn that without knowing it and they have to correct it and it will be awkward and won't feel natural. The mafia a reasonable flow for the Azeri that you're telling the pointing out of his chief either that's right right. So the point of all of this is that you there's a zone. That you get into where you're like. Ok, I feel like

I understand the basic targets. The basic places were heading down the line. And you want to hold on to them because they become like nor stars view to navigate by and, as you come up with. Other ideas for stories are thinking. That's remember, that's what aiming at so you want to hold onto them and you wanna in they. They need to be meaningful and they need to kind of have weight, but you can't hold onto them so tightly that you become blind to other, better idea. Right. So if someone you want, you want to hold them loosely in your hand and your mind so that if it after, like seven or eight episode, someone says hey, I know that we used to be aiming for this target. But what? If, instead of that it were this slightly different target you the. If you're holding onto the original target to closely are too tightly you may say: no, no, don't we can't rock the boat Vienna any merit any might miss a better idea. So it's this weird kind of theirs acting term for I remember from the old days raised in agriculture that they, it's called soft focus where you're sort of like it's like.

You're not staring out on the stage not staring at anything. A particular kind of aware of all of your surroundings- and you can see- I can see Monica sort it out of the corner of my eye she's every year and that great and so the comforting- and I just sort of sort of sense the room- and I am not looking- I'm sort of the toilet DC, the dough toilets over their rear door unlocked the garden the toilet. Earlier when I went to the bathroom everyday you're off track, and so I think I think at some level writing especially surely the good place is keeping a whole season and in what I call soft focus which make sure you are aware of everything but you're. Not so laser focused or tunnel vision, diamond off the power. That's right now and how do you? I would imagine so much you judge you would do you write individual episodes? I do you write.

First episode in the last of the season me personally, I you personally I have. I tend to only read the last one bottles and obviously the very first one was the pilot that I wrote an itinerary desirable we're gonna him. His interview that I couldn't stand, I'm really glad you turned over the ready to other people on that's why you're going to intervene in the top right, the last one, because when you write so the way works is generally speaking on most shows not every shelf emotions, as you would call break the story willing, vinegar where the everyone sitting around a comedy room and you're saying like okay. This is episode seven years of the kind of stuff we need. What if she broker, lay yeah that give it all. You do a lot of blue sky like what, if it's this, what if it's this would have disadventure these are and narrow it down. You come up at the gent

out line everybody's pitches, jokes and stuff, like that, once the once you, Sir, settle on the outline of the story, you sign it to one person that person goes away for three or four days and they write the script. Then they bring to say right it in three or four days. Yeah yeah yeah, who I mean in a long time for writers, walkin, hair ideal world you would have much longer, but the nature of laying the machine. The treadmill keeps movement yeah They're gonna put some on the air yet ripe. Libya, Lauren Michael's, used to say it s now, which is the extreme example of the machine, is the show doesn't go on because it's ready it goes on because it's eleven third, overall I ever had the rewrite it shows up other ways and that a grant of you- you agree with this, but my technique as a writer to get over writers block, is to give myself permission to write something shitty, oh yeah, Don't you think that's one of the greatest asset you can have as, like course, don't eat. You can really.

Become paralyzed with trying to write something perfect and you'll. Just never write Rocco Fuckin right, eight terrible pages, that's It will be too, and there are already tomorrow and then inevitably fibre good enough, but it is not a really give yourself permission and theirs. It right there's a curse and industry term that my wife uses I just say, which is a vomit draft. Our world is like Jes via out her puke DR yards as yeah. There's a lot of versions of it, but she's like she believes we in the balmy at it out. I could also say that out yeah you're trying to be shaped beer from minute, one you're just gonna be prying ever right, anyways used, so that script comes back and then you everybody sort of Rio. Henry Reds and rewrite it that I've seen a lot of land mines for insecurity. One is you, as the leader of this writing room have to respectfully and kindly shit on bad ideas. Right and that's all you gotta do

well, I'm sure a technique for that is yours evolved or did you learnt from Gregg Daniel? I learned from great and so great Daniels ran the office where you worked for quite a while grid sort of my mentor I left personnel, I moved out to allay my first job was on the office. Great are the average american attitude of the British shown I early as good a terrible shell anyone's continues on another. He and I took the job. I there's an email. All that I sent to my agent at the time which eight, which I think about a lot in which my agent sends back to me a lot in which, at one point I forwarded to Gregg to thank him and the email says. Look. I don't think this is a idea to adapt the off. I was a huge vow me. Like I don't know. I don't think that's a good idea. I think it's not gonna work haven't bought that guy meaning Gregg is gonna. Teach me how to write and that's why I'm gonna take job and a issues it was. They delay that simple. Like I had a meeting with him, it was two hours long. I felt a kinship or a kindred spirit or something

Ro attraction, maybe maybe all three there and I was accused of it? We have a right and then that's exactly what he did and now writing staff the first year, the only full time writers were me and indicating in Beijing. Back, and none of us really knew how to write. But you adopted that similar kind of spirit which is you'll, find you have found people on twitter right and set out a, would be great telling me. I haven't, eaten a cat that, like many things that that idea sorted came from him, so he he basically like. He taught us how to write. He taught me of the rules of of like long formed, comedy writing and he so his like all of this kind of individual things like, for example, how to navigate turning down bad ideas without hurting the ego, jars, new, pissed all of that, and not all of it, been ninety. Eight percent of it comes from him, Lord Michael's, as many sort of producing aphorisms they're. All good in there

a true, and one of them is that being a producer on which is essentially a job when you're running the show being a producer means having its sovereignty, Now that you ve got your job is to say no, and the reason is when you, when you're, coming up with when you're running a show of producing a show the Essen aversion. Is this the Essen aversion, as you write, a sketch that takes place in, like I know he sizzler and shared, like warlike tollbooths on board plays writer. In the end they production designer will come to you and say hey: Oh, you were thinking of like normal, like during toll October or whatever, but I was in college in germany- and I haven't told whose they designed with his cool arches and this- and I was thinking and your job c- is too politely somehow say: that's cool,

oh said in her manner guide. You Y know you want to be creative and you want to do an interesting thing and you have designed thirty foretold loose in the last thirty nine years of personnel, but this just needs of irregular Togo and then the production and then the costume are welcome to you in saying hey. So this guy. I saw this guy walking on Venice, in Venice Beach, with an alligator shuttles right near any. Had yes yet of the ETA shirt made out of parrot feathers wherever you go now just like genes, and a teacher guy does like like a human redress that you're hot, but the thing is everyone just wants to do the best job can do on a sat, so you're an end, so they want to be creative and they want to expand their repertoires and all that sort of stuff until your job usually is sort of saying like thank you, but no, let's keep this right.

And are being open to the fact that occasionally, those are gonna be brilliant idea that I really want to keep the door open when things are done yet bringing you these ideas, knowing that eighty percent of them are not going to be so, we had a character on person, recreation, a couple characters now: bench horseplay, Karajan him John Ralphie YO who was just this absurd maniac of a person, and he, but he was. Who is a cartoon, use a car use of what it was like. He was being animated as the Athena and I use say to our costumers Houston and allow access to aid, and I will now ever want to know what you're putting him in like you get she was one hundred percent. Your decision, I wanna, be surprised by it and I Europe basically said your job is to get me to tell you that to absurd, and if I don't tell you through absurd than you, can keep getting more absurd as a result, if you look back at his episode, you can see compendium of them on Youtube. He is wearing the most ridiculous clothes they,

find anything. They wonder aggressive waiting progressively mounted on the chart, and so that's the soft focused thing. That's the saying. Like you pick your moments, reuse were used to say to the creative Lee minded people who work for you and work with you go nuts just go now: it'll be fine and we have room right now for you leave. This will not in any. This will only help the show yeah. I heard the total only help it, and if you do that, everybody is happy in an likes coming to work. I heard through the grapevine that you guys. Basically, fuck around a good chunk of time and writers. You're right, like bells got by the other day, and you guys are playing a game like right, you're playing games to get the creative juices fly

yeah one of the main ok. So there there's a bunch of different kinds of writers rooms in Hollywood, and one of them is a kind of no fun nobody, laughs writers, room where it's like you get in. You sit down. Let's get to work at after. Like ninety minutes, the shell rentable say five minute break and five minutes later ovens back into writing again. Unlike look, I dont want to disparage any the way. Anybody does it's a weird job, it's very hard job. I don't want to everybody. Has his or her own way of approaching it yeah. I feel very strongly like the only reason really to get into this business in the fresh basis, because you get to laugh at your friends like yeah dead, there's law. As I say, the thing you got yelled at in school for passing notes benign surrounding making jokes that you're now incurred. As you do- dreadful as a highly so much my yeah yeah I've through it, and it's

and this is it. This is yet another thing of like if you don't understand how dear good fortune than Europe near missing using the point here. So I have this feeling of like look work as work is crucial and vital. I take a lot of pride in it. I think it's I've. I take a lot of pride and what I do, I think I'm good at it shows a maker of a high quality, but also I am not going to this. Is it's not the military? It's not, and it's not by the way. It's not even tax law or something you did not him. It's not important work in the young. The sense of like it is worth not at people not have any fun, and if you have learned having fun, then it's to me if I'm failing and my job, so we have a bunch of games and stupid stuff. We do. I think that the point of all this is to say, if you, if something amusing is happening, you shooting engage with it, an indulgent it and let it happen because what really what's the worst thing that can happen, you gonna blow twenty three minutes of your day.

A doing something that makes everybody happy and everybody enjoys like yeah, that's God in the long run, that's gotta help the show like the angler, in the mood in their happy in the northeast are flowing like you get agriculture, because I think of myself as having a similar approach. When I have been in the leadership role, I wanted to be fun and I dont yell at people and an end I think I am generally pretty benevolent. Maybe people disagree, but when people take advantage of it, I'm extra upset about b, has, I feel like? No, no guys don't like we can do this, but a few

me over now that now I gotta you're gonna forced me to be that guy, don't wanna be, do you ever run into bad yeah? Sure, of course, like not, I mean at this point now. I've been, you know, there were seven years of parks. Erech co ran Brooklyn, I nine with Dan Gore, who created with me for a year plus or so two years issue, and now it's you know. This is your three of good place. So it's been like you know, a solid more than a decade of me running a show, and at this point there like there's a team of product. Can t that's been with me almost the entire time, some people, the actual entire time and the writers who had been with me four five six seven years, and so the number of people who could take advantage of that of the atmosphere is pretty. Small, mostly new people, but the new people come in and they see the way that the senior writers behave right and they follow. Early, you'd and then it generally generally speaking, I haven't had too many situations where I felt like I was being taken advantage of. One of them was at times

the late Harris. Widows are IP our who the only real fighting terrorism deed. He, yes, yea. I was love by several my friends, I never madame by old. Yes, he we just pass the whatever it is the six year and for your anniversary of his death. I can it's tumblr yeah, yes, it has and he I buy it. I felt like he was taking advantage of me. He was he was disappearing and he was going to fish concerts and he was not working hard and he would turn in work that I knew a sub par for him. Yeah and I eventually sat him down and it took a lot dick had get this to happen. I found out, I said, I think, are taking advantage of the atmosphere here. He broke down in tears and said: was addicted to heroin, and then I was just as our telling me. My office on citizens sounds like very attic advocacy behaviour. Yes exactly, but it took some one at that level. Yeah to read you make me feel like. I was really being taken advantage of

in general. Are you opposed to confrontation? Or? U fine with now, I'm pretty bad yeah, not. I am not built for I'm pretty conflict, diverse verse. Yeah, I'm a rule follower by nature, and so my whole life like when I am Bell get along so has literally. I think she- and I talked about this because I my eye would literally I was a guy college parties who would was tracking like them. Noise, ordinance cut off of Mars and when it was like the one, I would turn sneak over the stereo internet ground because I was like I do want to get a want. Anyone to get in trouble like I was worth as a rule. The rule is no noise after eleven thirty or what area, and I would be like what we get followers. I just wanna I wanna diving couple things that may be could be uniquely personal between you and I which is you You have you liked to make fun of alpha's yeah masculinity be in general or I so wigs. What do you think that is a rule follower do when you look at these like over testosterone, guys at the party like

national leader hole. You are monitoring the stereo volume in Euro, like their every humans, wrong with this world are or were already think their places. Do you think they walk me through your take ye? I like your bring this up in part. I think because you play, a literal demon on who is who tortured, who is in the process eliminating. Department yeah and you are excellent. On the other? interesting. I thought about this a lot because it's not, as you might expect from a place of I was bullied. I can ever bullied and I went to a baby I did the bully provided. No, I think, like I mean I grew up in, like a suburban, I went to a suburban, Connecticut public School system, which was pretty benighted, It's I mean it was Jackson, geeks there's only. I am, but I happen to straddle both groups, because I was a geek who play baseball right right. I didn't get. I didn't get made.

None of that much hitting a bullied ever so it's not that it's I think to me. There is a toxic masculinity. This, I think, there's too scientists can, I just say one hundred percent of my listeners are off road. Racers go continue They're gonna make us about how to get my story. I might raise by all women. My parents are parents divorced eleven, my mom, I two sisters we had. We had a cat with two cats were girls and a dog who was a girl and reduced, we my current life again exactly guess female door, so I so I think it was just like that. I watched deeds be jerks to my elder says I saw like I lived through a divorce from my mostly through my mom's vantage point up, so I think that was formative now and then. I also think that toxic masculinity is a specific brand of human clueless nets that I just fine hilarious ya. Think that deeds like deeds in, like Vegas Night Club

or in or on like in Jim's or in wherever it, where it there's a there's like a a tribalism, uses its absolute tribalism, but also a sense of like the like so little of what they think. Matters actually matters in the global world view, and so I just five always just found it. I didn't have a label for toxic masculinity is a recent fairly recent label, at least to me, but when I heard of the first time I was like. Oh that's exactly what it is that that that's the term for this thing, I've been track, my whole life well, but here's the part that I want that that that intersects of my own life, so I am arguing with Monica Christian on a car right once right, came in where I'm I'm I'm Back to the where this all started, where I said, I'm nervous that were were getting Narrow narrow, with what were allowed to make fun of in their saying knit there doesn't,

have to be sent. Someone doesn't have to be the punchline of the joke right, it doesn't have to be about about ethnicity or a sexual orientation, or an accent from a country. Babo law you can make. You can just have subjects that have no no victim in in Monica said, look at the good place in she brought up the good place and my argue, to her was no there's. Definitely someone being targeted aid is whether the Jacksonville, Florida, jokes or dumb dump right there is. There has to be doesnt there. There does have to be a target for comedy yeah, but I think of it as punching up a little bit and soda punching down like if you are, if you're lucky you eat, it is ok to make fun of. Jacksonville Florida, fine, Jacksonville floored, is an insane place. Tongue gets its got. I mean Carl Hyacinth

example is a novelist. She was a Miami Harold. Thank you MA am Harold. Reporter he's been writing books about Florida, firm, twenty five, thirty years saying like this places insane before refugee agency energy vacation. There is again being from Canada. Now I never why? Oh you did, and now we are we live, we did, and it was it was. It was that it had its clear culture like it, was specific right and so and enjoy some of it being a place of insanity and Florida. Being a place of insanity is not punching down because Florida, like when I was it s now, I wrote a sketch called it was. It was a m like a commemorative plates that just celebrating all of the insane things happen in Florida how the time it was all is, and the nine eleven hijack as a train there, and there were charmed attacks every week in my memory, yes, and so like the floor, it is in the same, are her again every five zigzag so that, like there's a difference to me and like luck

I was recently in south Beach by doing promotion and- and I was standing there going well, so all these people recognizes was, could we can offer very shortly? Everyone's is breeze and about their data, that is vast and aids, and it's a lunatic with lunatic French, a hat. So and ass Jason Mendoza, many isn't, as carriage on the show, is from Jacksonville and he's a total Ding dong. Yes, and that, but like Ding dogs, you can't have a common, there was a Ding dong. Well, ok, but deal. I agree with you, but I feel like that supports like it does require up It requires a target okay, so he has to be a target right because he's a Ding Dong, yet an uneducated person who says very stupid things. However, to my mind? So what we do is we try at least I'm not the only one who does us. I want to claim it. I'm some like visionary he's. First of all, he's Filipino the actors filipino the carriage Filipino guy, and I my thing is like Filipino being done on a tv shows really fun you gotta lotta good Joe months, my whole careers platforms

I do so. I thought well, there has never been a filipino dumb guy that I know of them always the same. It's always the same guy, so this will be under single, make him Filipino and then aside from that. We're gonna say he's not just dumb we're gonna, give him characteristics that make him a good, interesting person enthuse three dimensional, those characteristics areas incredibly loyal to his friends. Aha, almost to a fault, he has the capacity for truth. Weakness? In goodness he wasn't. He fell into a relationship with Jimmy was character with two hunters who is like an a british aristocrat By way of lead. I the elite of the yes and when it was revealed in insane way that he had once in a previous incarnation of the neighborhood that their living in been married to JANET the peace, artificial intelligence. They had a. Heerd moment in their relationship and he was very comforting sweetness and I'm sorry. This puts you in a weird position. I still like you so we're like we're going to show you that he's not being a Ding Dong, not the only thing he is right and if, in his

as you are doing that for a character, I think you're, ok, you're in solid footing, if it's just if its punching down straight punching down on taking up a group of people who are in a disadvantaged position and just mocking the disadvantaged position that there and then it's no good then it's boring and its cliche, and it's not funny, but I'm lying in applying these out. Just by the way I love, I love the good place. I think the writings off the charts brilliant, so I dont actually have an issue of any of this unjust, I'm vocally being an advocate. So I can try to prove my greater point. Please is even Christians character. It is what from my point of view, it is making fun of white trash. Agnes and white trash is no different to me. Then inner city, poor, black folks, like it's, it's yours in front of a Socio economic group shore, and so is it is it ok, cause were white, were free to make fun of white trash

well I hears rosy. A number one is different, at least in this characters position, because this character look. She had. The character and miserable parents who were the awful awful p. Absolutely who really like really very circumstance, yes, but also she is able to at least through their story that we ve told she has. She goes to a school that seems like it's a pretty good school she gets. Job. She has her own apartment. She lives in Arizona and if she has a pretty she like sustaining a pretty decent, what you would call a middle class life yeah, so it is different than for example, inner city. What you would call inner city african amount, again poor communities in a number of ways already, just by like this. By the way we ve portrayed, it's not the same thing right, it's a did it, but you're, not you're, also not wrong when you say that is a socio economic class is just that this GEO economic class that she's a part of it

comparatively speaking, migrate nor yeah. I know she and she went to college like she added the ability somehow or another. She went Arizona state on the show, and so this is that's where shoe area. So so again, it's like it's. It's you in theory, your right in practice with this budget their character. We have shown that she has probably in part because she is a white person who was not born into abject poverty, he's, had certain advantages that lead to her having certain more advantages, etc, etc, etc. Ok, so

Is it really what I'm saying, though, globally? As I absolutely accept that- and I am bracer- and I agree with you, but I do think it is weirdly. I think people underestimate the power of society where we are a group, animal humans, rights and making funding. Gossiping is actually how traditionally we ve kept the person empower and check like it has served in evolutionary, true purpose in so we make fun of things it. I would say it is ok to make fun of certain aspects, of being white trash, what's his cot, that were doing it because we can do better. This is what we are saying. This is funny, and that is actually the labour by which we get change, which has its. We make fun of it publicly and we can take the specifics out of it, but we make fun of any given thing, and we do it so loudly that the next aims does that thing they get a little embarrassing as they realise our society is deemed. This is ridiculous, are funny, and so it is. It is weird

be performing a sociological service to make fun of shit. It's kind of how we say This is preposterous rhyme, sir, if you're wearing affliction sure in a jacked up truck little drive through sizzler a new order, your coke and you know what the scenario is we are seeing guys pretty much. No one agrees with this behaviour. That is, I guess it was funny yeah, and I do think that that is the service that comedy can provide to society. Yes, I buy and nine I feel like I understand you're saying- and I would add to this- that there is a way in which you can do it reduced. Fifthly, and entered a pointless lay into me, mug my grandparents, my whole mom sort of family from South that my grandfather's by born in Mississippi and might they live in Texas, their whole lives and I take offense whenever it whenever someone in the cold, You're represents the concept of stupidity or a ladder. Woods life by give

never southern. Actually I personally, even though I am for Michigan in Connecticut, I take offence at that yet, as I feel like that's reductive and stupid. Yes, and so a new objective, lazy, that's right! Yes, it's lazy, and it's and it's in a Keurig N Lazy is something we should make fun of. We should I ever stop that's right now, so it is: let's take Kristen's character on the good place. Again, I lazy really terrible in real life over. I cheat her again The idea here was luck. There are aspects of her life and we are explicit about this, the wheat, you would call trashy, she reads celebrity Jerry her favorite magazine is called celebrity. Baby plastic surgeons, urgent issues, cheese and she loves. She loves pro wrestling on the show right. Our voters who lives in a new writer, DOW Jones Dahlia against ASCII, who is from, is from Massachusetts and refers to herself ass, a garbage

and if it is so so with that's what we have said about, there are certain aspects of Eleanor on the show that you would call trashy. However, there are also certain aspects of her character that are incredibly aspirational: she's completely independent person. She rich you left home. She was fourteen and put her with cell through college and she like have may pay their own way and she is like she's us. Iver. She is a really good emotional intelligence, her and ten, our up all the time for people's phony behaviour. She wrecked as it another people all the sturdy stuff. So again, say admirably, she is capable of changing the chase. Apologize to me the number one thing I watermark of a good per yes, so I thought I feel like, even if you think that we are punching down on the concept of white trash or something like that, we're not doing it in the typical is not deliverance riot. Her character

not from the DE movie deliverance, and also we are trying at least to show that there are twelve different personality components that make her more interesting than the kind of reductive stereo tat we might otherwise be presenting I think, you're doing a great job of it again. I was advocating that side of the argument used to further my own agenda by harm. I I too, I was any democracy, which is that the entire Mariah from credits to credits is basically making fun of stupidity right and that can be mean if you have a child, that is testing at seventy, nine is being mainstream, that's very fucking mean move yeah, and so I, see a pretty significant contingent of the population- saying that's bad in its evil and that's mean- and I would agree to all those things, but I would have to take a utilitarian stance and say, but overall, the net result of that show. Our movie is positive. We are pointing out things were putting things out there that we should all

Try to avoid- or you know what I'm saying yeah well, that the meanest part of that movie to me is the beginning when it lays out how this happened, because its showing to sort of thoughtful. Sort of intellectual people having a nuance discussion about family planning and then a show. The different couple the white guys, aren't all your hats right and he's in that southern China weigh up say and then they just populate like rabbits and it, and there is some, things very dicey about that- that sort of like graphical, lay out of like how the world got stupid, you asked the part of the movie. That makes me, though, least comfortable, and I don't I'm not talking about the truth of it or the false of it, falseness of it or what, I'm just saying watching that graphically represented on the screen made me feel Ikey. It made me here, like one one of the groups as rats. Yes, that's exactly what that's exactly what it suggests. There is like these early.

Candy and eyes area and ass. I would agree with that, but I would also say it is taking justice sharp of a view of the smart people, which is their completely fucking paralysed by their own shore. Fears and everything has to be perfect and so to me it's right but didn't realize it is equally here it in there. I think he's making MIKE is making fun of smart people and elites just as much he's making fun of them, but he's also positing that the world got to rubble, because they last step because the right, under the rate he s overall blighters at some point you like yes, he's he it is satire. Obviously satire- and you know you look We live in L A and the idea of like discussing the size of your family like its. It is a thing we are like we. There is a lot of that's not that it's not true. Now It's a moment for kids in LOS Angeles. I go out

still Mormon near here I go straight to. There must be a religious yeah explanation for why on earth. He would that's right and so barometers that higher at heart of that move. Part of a democracy that that that gives makes me look queasy is the idea that, like he ultimately, even though he's he it is satire of, like quote intellectual people, end quote, he's also essentially arguing that they lost in the end because they lost the war the world when AWOL rain right he's so he's landing on the side of the kind of nuanced intellectual elite. Instead of the less fortunate less wealthy people of the world, yeah and you're going to break some eggs when you make an owl that you're going to try to make some broader point that might be worth making and you're going to fuck up all along the that's right and there's no like there's no way to that movie came out how long ago is that movie two thousand and six? I think you all beers ago, so that it's like the world changes dramatically every twelve years,

No like now look it's easy to look back now and say that was not a that go with that movie. Maybe didn't make the exact point. It was trying to make me a very Easy for me to say that twelve years later will, by the way it thought it was making one point and then in the last election cycle it appears to have been making. We never run riot like its relevance, kind of peat, yeah yeah, we'll make you You, you are a very and I don't say the slightly. You are very ethical person in its it's really admirable, in its angle, to see someone that is working so diligently to be mindful of all these things that someone, a hunter percent on the white privilege should be, and at its very encouraged, to see that you ve had success with this ethical constrain. As I would call, it argues ethical how big up I'll make a joke of anyone's expense. But I appreciate you- and I am I'm glad you're so gainfully employed, and I hope you continue to keep doing this

keeping your wife's boss. You one thing I do want to say is the so year we as we ve now just learned MIKE, is uniquely kind in nice. My wife is uniquely kind in nice. In TED is Maybe it's a monster he's a master of kindness niceness in my first thought, when I, because I knew you prior to her working on that show here- and I admit, tat in my four thought was. This is the dream sat for a pickpocket. I think I would live in a good way. Is everyone's nice, as some of you now wrong, though, in fact what would happen is all three of our popular would be the date on which we would have the same thought, which is like you, no one in the grand scheme, this doesn't matter here. We would argue that we on our, we would get new credit cards and put more passionate about anyone happen again. We go looks you know, that's a bum luck on our part, but I'm sure things will turn around for us and it just keep it

you guys your ears aid is a positive one. We want shame on you for mutilation when we use is always aim on me and my whole thing's rethinking the dying thanks for having me, in my view, important issue with. You know why, because this is the third episode of the week and then a spare people a song, Maybe you should do an impromptu poem. Instead, ok, ok, when driving my car. I often rack fantasizing about fact check. I need to know all the truth Even when passing the toll booths, she has guiding star for all that's true, her name Monica pad men? She says I love you, my dac shepherd

viewed as you know. Is I love that power made. You say: rom do poems pick a lazy ass words to write the truth. I was like what am I gonna sing on earth is four year I was panicked inside. Ponders sweating like. Like Odessa who were in church. Ah, I love that re, make sure he's great boy, It is great, yeah, Oh yes, he's also I'm a couple things at dinner really come up one. I happen to know that he makes that there is an equal number of female and male directors on his which is

he's a very committed, an equal biodiversity and diversity and equality. And he would never say that or brag about that. But I will, I know it to be true and he's just so respectable ally view. I love you too will have our roles I get. It takes all of us to make this world go round yeah. You need both be due care. The game and nagging come up but we talk about that. I'm Vincent de la Fritos backtrack people on but you know you and I talk about it all the three times a week and I always love it you're my resident expert on it. How can I say to you Muggah? What's it call when I am queuing you up to explain the game to Pierre the game nagging yeah

August. We were to set the Hansen's party in India, where there is an example of it. It was really great winded, it was someone I was somewhat had said something the Erika like, oh, I know someone had called her a hippopotamus because he she's got her tea. The cutest, oh my god, Q desire for all my gathers, and I get a Eric Charlie's wife, Charlie, the perfect ten calendar, my main heartthrob, so you can imagine that she's beautiful! cause Charlie, is Mary. Turkey, which is being grew ass if they were equally be exactly I and they are, and she has the cutest gap in her teeth, and I guess somebody called her a deposit as and when they said. I love that, because my all my ex girlfriends, her yeah like it was so essential. Weird backwards, complex does exist,

taxes. I would do you even know your disgusting hippopotamus. It was a really good and egg again read the gang. I hope his brow high five DE masters, sweet magma man anyway, nagging is- is detailed during events at an offer. Your fact check, if you want to hear about it,. The black character and fledge. You said his name is Bobo. His name is gummy ok. I don't feel too bad about that mix up wall. You don't feel bad at the mix up at the point made He was talking about watching movies and old things and how its now it's like. Oh my god, about a lot of stuff in in new products. Some companies in you said flexion than he was yeah, there's! No, you know there's

oh diverse name, that movie you like one now, there's one black character. His name is Bobo, who strung out junkie but lived on with people who write in like was like yeah. That's the example of the black person in a movie. Anyway, so his name being gummy is actually way worse than Bobo. Even worse. I think it's worse than Bobo alcoves, I'm on this. It's worse o k o soon so Nora done did leave So now, because of Andrew Duff claim his appearance The ninety nine be, after the fact, some Kashmir, especially John love. It claimed that she was simply trying to draw attention to herself, but she set like she did in article four salon magazine and endless basically debunked bat and said my

objection to Andrew Dice Clay was at his character, was only about one thing: abusing women and laughing about abusing women. There was nothing else behind it. It's true because one of the best tools in our dean, massage monistic, archaic, stupid, caveman thinking. Is to comedic Lee, portray them and make fun of them so like what you're really laughing at is the character of this person that's what it's really dicey, upon intended? to know when what's happening, you know it's great to be answered, live while Jersey shores out an imperative ii that culture royds dancing, fucking, whatever you. We have to go on the show and play a character were you're, actually pointing out how ridiculous it is. That's a great tool and actually making it.

Embarrassing will really saying. Is that this? This would be embarrassing back like this yeah, that's true, but I think when you're on us, and now you have the benefit of every one. Knowing like this person is playing this character and generally, even in those, catches. The character normally receives some sort of come up since, like it's funny if they're, just winning in their terrible, so with andred ice clay. He just is this character that he's portraying always and there's. No. He just is that sear just seeing this horrible person, although I do feel obliged to defend them because of you. Listen du monde Stern. He is, I don't know, This feelings are about dream else or not, but I can tell you and stern. He is omnipresent, not pick. Character. He plays on stages the dice man he's, a real human being and as a character played in. Actually, when you hear a story, he was

he never saw himself as a stand up comedian. He was too afraid to go out ass himself and try to tell jokes, and so we created this character. He wasn't afraid that if you get hide behind that character, he get on stage, so it just there's. A lot to the story soon minimally, anyway, person and I dont think he he you know he wasn't that person I don't think anyone saying he wasn't, but the character they he chose to portray was this toxic, massaging zoom. I think the reason it was funny is that, especially in the eighties, when those popular we knew about this, Guido stereotype of the italian american guy with chains driving a camera with the leather jacket like he was plain, on vat that we already thought was embarrassing universe kind of like the fall out of serene fever? so was sending up that character, but now

in any way where that character received anything negative because he was that way, and I you need that There goes Urim and them I guess we're not like Steve. Martin, you said, do with an awkward to wild and crazy guys, and they had a swinging bachelor pad. Now they want to do is far they more immigrants and yeah they never got laid. I guess that was the Joe write, a word total puss hounds, but they never ever got lay yeah yeah. I wonder like his thing could have played out, different. I don't know how you do it on stage a stand up where you get yours, you know it's interesting, yeah ethic! That's how why that is so. Messy, and why people couldn't really distinguish him from that care. What's funny, though, is when you now view him in time capsule and he's not a threat to our current society. If you ever thought, he was one like

Kristen whose definitely a feminist or watch it and just laugh hysterically, because it so preposterous that someone would like their cigarette for fifteen minutes and they talk about sex the way he does it's like now that he's not a threat you can You can laugh at now might can't might doesn't enjoy there, but I certainly do a night. Kristen does ensure people Newberry opinions on it, but it's altered because we will listen to the world. Into to Gladwell spot gas, and it was all about Sammy Davis Jr in all the things he went through with incredible man yeah what say Davis went through and that there was a period where he was really shown by the black community because he had yet introduce Nixon, onstage and hugged him during the election Many went to a rally I think in Chicago

in the black community, like really didn't, want him mare and then Jesse Jackson. I think made a speech saying you that he's one of ours you got embrace Emily performed in all this stuff and the point of the I cast was the role of the token person, the first person, whose token female at accompanying the token black person what they have to do, to survive and what they have to do to overcome it? such a different dynamic than everyone. That then follows them and the part of it that was absolutely iconium, even listen to somewhere I can relate to MIKE in you quite often on these topics. They play, the NBC televised roast of Sammy Davis, the audio from it in every job, milk is just the mouse races, terrible joke, and these are, friends like there's no question, may actually loved him, but like Don,

freckles and all these guys, guinea map, yeah energy brutal and see that someone had to just take a bath. How to open the door for richer prior and everyone else. That then have the luxury of fight. Against that, as they should is very hard. So it's interesting, I can watch them massage anything and see it as a funny character, but then yeah. I hear that roasts terrible again also talking about a real human being there talking about someone in front of them. That's real in yesterday's clay like this chick was had her tongue up my ass, I think there was ever a check that had her tongue up the this man's ass. So it's all like bananas. Let's, even if it is a real, what what are you putting out there? Why, like, even if it's a total eight up story. What is the point of it what does it do? First society? Does it make people? What is the point? Let's use more innocuous example did you,

ever watch episodes married with children, yeah yeah, El Bundy's plain the stereotype of like a massage monistic dad who just want so watch football, drink beer and look at boobs and its serving up per it's like it's actually pointing out that that's preposterous, like they're in on the job that demands a tv show where they that's what I'm saying they have the luxury and the benefit of I'll be shed a character being in an actual character, that's on tv and then and then yeah. He faces repercussions for that behaviour or at least like you know, winning he's not when I see the whole picture and when someone just portrayed being a deer a thing like this is my character or what Why? What

the point is evaluating whether it makes me laugh runner, yeah, there's really interesting about the top ten percent costs. When we we just recorded somebody today and we were talking about young people. On college campuses and sensitivity and those issues- and I was thinking like I'm they have the luxury of being sensitive to this, like I was sensitive to all: that's not all the only those books. That should be our lot on college numbers now, but I also never felt like? I, could say: hey, that's don't please Don't do that linger. I never felt like I could say really clear. Quite often, people me you and they go. Where are you from new? Go Georgia We are not satisfied with. The answer is that they really well knows what ethnicity, our YAP or even the inner you pakistani there too

previous yep and of course, You get sick of answering that question yeah, because I'm from Georgia right so they say where a farm and I'd say Georgian is unknown. Where are you from and again this is it's it's hard for my egocentric point of you like. I would for someone to be interested in where from like up so we persons mine like I think I would love to someone like. Are you germ? I would just want anyone to be interested me trying to like. Figure out what I am or something, but again I am in a position of power in this balance. So I would like that, but in my mind, love it of a girl Counterpane, said worrier ancestors from Oh, she was look. Me and now she is curious about me and I'll get to tell her like oh half his english irish than the sum front, you know whatever, so that if, if that

person who asked me was asking every person where they were from where their ancestors were from it wouldn't bother me they're only asking me, because I look different to them running on put me in a very specific box of ok that person's there I think the super vulnerable like evolve answer would be when you ask me that I feel like I'm on the outside of this group, like I feel excluded like that would be the that we the thing that could break through to me again. Some locked in my perception were I'd love to be asked where I'm from Gaza would mean you're interested in me said a break. Me out of that, like an active vulnerability, would be when you asked me where I'm am from, when I tell you George, and these are nowhere, you really from I feel like you're, saying I'm different than you, I'm the other ray I'm just an american girl. I think it would. Click for people oh god, you that does that would make me feel,

that what you know it shouldn't be it shouldn't, be incumbent on the person it's getting bothered, but but if we want to like help, people evolve like then a little starting with, because another part of this point was thus in people's intention is relevant yeah you now, and so We want to break this cycle and let people know how those things hurt us think vulnerabilities, probably the best course of action ok, but I the problem, is you say that add that that should be the respond, but if that is the risk, bonds. The the mostly the reaction is persons, so sensitive revenge, yes, and I think that's that Part of this whole conversations where people are vulnerable, because I think they fear that no that's what that's why This conversation is it of course, there's extremes, but micro aggressions, you generally

in some of them are reactive when people are feeling to sense and that people are feeling too sensitive, think people some people are feeling to some. Yes, yes, I do so so responding to where you from where you from in a way that anything other than India. Which is what I always had to do. It is also lumped into this, this sensitivity thing and its burden, you first of all, I am thousand see what you're saying never drive me crazy. Everywhere I want. Someone else knew our strong yeah, I'm saying it seems like I would like it, because it does happened to me at all right, so I'd feel unique. So, first and foremost, I think it breaks my heart that something that you ve always had to contend with. I will get so sick of it yeah if nothing else, even if it didn't trigger insecurities in you the roads,

I didn't see the conversation yeah, it's a very annoying but, like I my whole point, This is young kids. Now have the a jury of. Feeling a sense. And saying something about it and I did not Have that I was like you know. The Indy in kid, amongst all these white people, and if they were saying something offensive d me or my grow, the grocer really caressing may I will course, would not say anything, because what would that do thou come even further. Outside this thing, I was trying to be super inside of you're. In the token yeah yeah I was- and you do have do just sort of and over a lot when near in that position. So I have a little more sympathy for this stuff happening. I don't think it's gray, but this step as happy on college campuses. I

have a little more sympathy towards cause. I'm like a good for them for being Abe. Now was the time that people are able to do that. I couldn't so I just think of the again I'm with you all the way to their nation, for they should stand the top of the roof top and shot whatever it is that they feel disgruntled about or dissatisfied with yeah surrounding professors. I agree like four, people, you have to recognize any time. A group of people has surrounded one person which had outing at them. Yet terrible. That's it! That's not. Are you handle your fuckin business here? What you're it's not here and there? It is not a condemned discourse, although there are highly treat anyone on any place words, not is not an even apart from college campuses is just a terrible threatening way to be an this notion of shut up. It's not your time to talk. Also, I completely reject. This is

is a conversation. It's always a dialogue. All grown carries out of both sides being heard yeah. I fully agree with the cry: ok, what's the most popular brand of college. Football merchandise side claimed you of them was you did and then make said he thought it would be Notre Dame or Bam a fitness insider. In two thousand sixteen said the school that's made the most money in college sports. This is not Marchant icing money in college sports. Texas, aunt em, a hundred and ninety two point: six million. That includes like ticket sales and stuff like that that that was per year. That was in two thousand sixteen down here a lot of money to not be given those athletes even turn, but yeah. That's true, but two thousand and thirteen. That was the last time I could find for merchandising you mercy of Texas asked him universe. Annexes Aston was

one and number two was Burma I knew that, as you see, would make it in their new thoughts oh yeah, I noticed I have so many Assisi another sad. These carry on France, Securities and Exchange Commission oh yeah, it is the citizens of our countries. I myself have a lot of t shirt, so I know that the south is Poland their way in merchandising. I warn the other day. Ok about the re engineering of we and Glinda yeah am I is sort of had a hard time finding stuff on it. There was something in it in John ALL, J, o c dot, com and ninety. Ninety ay said it had produced a new wonder we may. This is what your time up? No! No! No! This is from the thirties,

I learned the sun stuff you should now, which is a great podcast. If you want to learn what I learned, I can't remember the particulars of it, but so If you should know, did a silly acts, Disease episode and give maybe the full history of that week. That was reengineer, I want to say it was in the twenties God. Ok see you can go find than on things. You should know the stuff. You should stuff. She should ever listen, abigails now its awesome, they sit down and they too about a topic. Well fed to research at all week and amazingly exchange everything they learned about. It is that in their really both funny, yes, great o the scientists that invented the disease resistant. We MIKE manufactured MIKE the thought this person was from India or Pakistan, but he's from America

his name is Norman Borlaug yeah. He basically is credited for feeding a billion people notice disease resistant This is probably the person that I'm talkin to say what years Borlaug was in business by the way way to overcome a rough last name. It's basically a boring log, a logs, already boring in and of itself, and then, if you have to put a negative and, finally, to say it's a boring law boring assigning the planet Borlaug. Maybe ok, He launched the Green Revolution Tommy event. This is ass, the others Doktor Borlaug most famous for having launched what came to be known as the Green revolution. The agricultural phenomenon responsible for an exponential increase is a veritable exe. Ocean in the amount of food produced on earth what years, namely billion? As I told the acid, This is it he was deployed to solve this

you weren't you to India. It with the peace corps and he figured out the dwarf wheat- so stander we plants are fairly Tom, have narrow stocks dwarf, we plants are relatively short and squatted ethic thick husky stocks groovy, sure one advantage of that unique feature is that dwarf plants can remain upright, they don't follow from their own weight and why riding riding on the ground? They don't break down on a windy day. Another advantage. Indeed, the most important advantage is that compared to stare we plant, the dwarf produces a prodigious amount of weak colonels. The comparison is astounding, so mad dwarf, we the the gluten level went wave of how interesting there we go now we figured it out here tonight. Don't

to go, listen to stuff now background makes that there were eight point four. Billion people on earth according to the inner. At some point four. One might now you just got me autonomous area, the idea and why then he said maybe Notre Dame Burma right How many writers versus performers, Annetta now very is but in the past ten seasons there were, right. There was arraigned from twenty four to thirty four riders. Cast as more around the eighteen number. More writers loom more riders more writers, more problems, more money, more writers, more problems, catch him by the plenary said her mother pussy, never venture what I really think we could have someone could take off with catch him by the pussy shirts and say

address by the pussy offences innocent cheerleaders, his chair eating, link is helping one another and supporting them. You love like I do your number. I respect him so much. I respect you so much too near I love you and in India and tomorrow, if you ve made it this far miles, our punch, shriek and smell? Let's go but two miles the knock out by assuring downloader chip lobby.