We are different by the nations and professors professor, she crazy to say american centralism. They hate that the average length of a constitution and the history of the world of seventeen years this year. What two hundred and thirty two years under the same constitution. So we argue Nick, where the exception not the rule. Oh, welcome this. The Ben Shapiro show Sunday special. I'm excited to welcome today, David Barton from Wall Builders. They focus on America's forgot, in history and heroes. Emphasis. The religious, moral and constitutional heritage of our nation when it gets you all of it, just one second, but first there's a widely Hell belief: the procrastination is a bad thing, because, most of the time it is but life isn't so black and white. Sometimes procrastination can actually work in your favour. For example, let's say any life into it: but you ve been putting it off because you are lazy. Congratulations! You managed to procrastinate long enough for technology, to make it really easy for you to get life insurance

policy. Genius is the easy way to shop for insurance online. In just two minutes you can compare, quotes from top insurers and find the best price. Once you apply The policy genius team will handle all the paperwork and red tape nausea. This pressure, no hidden these just financial protection and peace of mind and palace genius, doesn't just make life insurance easy. They can also. We find the right home insurance, auto insurance, disability insurance. So if you need life insured but you ve been busy doing a literally anything else check out policy genius, it's the easy way to compare all the top insurers and find the best value for you. Policy genius nobody wants to shop for life insurance, which is why they made it easy, for you, be irresponsible, adult make sure you're not buried in a pauper's grave, and if something bad should happen to you, your family is taken care of its part of being responsible, go check them out a policy genius that com, its policy genius, Dotcom David so much for joining shall really appreciate. It grew be her birthday so for those who are no my explain what while builders is well below does the name we take from the Bible book of near my? We like that? Storing the Bible. It is the story of her building that which has been torn down near my

this back and it's the largest grocery restoring the Bible and project they thought would be impossible to achieve. They didn't fifty two days because everybody did something I like the image that in rebuilding the walls, why you would normally one stone masons you had a guy his daughters out there you had apothecaries, you had jewellers, she had soldiers, everybody did something So we look at American, say you now if everybody gets involved and does something that just rebuild and as the poor stood near my the only rebuilt our own home men of two call built along section, but the priestess little bit. If everybody does something, the whole thing goes back up in a remarkably short period of time. So that's the image we like, his while builders, everybody doing something, you don't have to be qualified or your hat with specialist just get involved, rebuild. Something has been torn down at the morals of faith, the character, education, politics, whatever it is. Get in there and rebuild and get your taken educate. No policy in the United States. How that ought to change round a start with you brought

it seems memorabilia with you. While builders is an organisation that has one of the largest private collections of founding here, memorabilia documents in and other materials in in the world, so but we get to you show me. Some aspects is really really go. Your showing some of this to me before we actually began filming this. How did you get into actually collecting all the stuff I gotta go back. My story hours a math and science guy Whatculture Math Matheson Scholarship became a teacher and then became a school principle. And matters such as my deal, but the basketball coach in other things, but I wasn't at all a hit. I didn't like it didn't like in high school and lacking Collis, didn't like at any time and yet and not liking history? I came across to really old documents that I had been taught about in school and I've been taught about those documents, but when I actually read them

They were totally opposite what I've been taught about school and some now, I'm gonna wait a minute here What I learned, but I'm holding the actual cause and they're not the same and that got me looking at others and the more I looked in the history, the morgue so different from what I've been taught and are really loved. What I was finding and so at that point and did lots of public speaking and we actually retired six adds at three hundred thousand miles and each van we just drove all of United States, so many ties millions miles and as we would go through place, we must stop and in towns at by thrift, shop or Salvation Army, or you know something a member walking into. Torn Connecticut. Where as I walked out. I had the part that use dresses to go by and there was a used stoves up here in tricycle over here. In the back, I found a box of leather bound books and turned out to be the library of one of the founding fathers and people had his books and some five bucks a book but didn't have a clue,

with the head, and so, as I have, and I would say when I started I could out of tune. Fifty founding fathers maybe name five So I didn't know who must have more hours. I ended up by a book from a guy named shoe Williamson for twelve bucks on his work thirty nine guys who signed the constitution but nobody's ever heard him today. So at that point in time I was able to just by lots of stuff. Read it you're through all the right. Insofar as this is amazing start what I was taught now, the dates alone different because with internet Google, as they all this calves assign constitutional, raise the price on him, but back then It was really easy to get the stuff. So today, now this problem eighty or ninety vendor should make a living cell in the stuff. They know that we buy and sell contact us inside. You want this, and so now I don't have to go out and asserts like we did before, but it was a really fun journey by all the sole stuff. Lightning brought some that with you, and I want to give you the opportunity to show our listeners in our viewers. What exactly you have because

this is just unbelief running into me before the shower. So well, we'll start George Washington Easy named recognise this actually are to pay. Out of one lock of his hair, He gave this locked Alexander Hamilton S as he was dying at at that mountain, and so the Hamilton family, with two kids divided it. So this is what went to the son of Alexander Hamilton. This is a daughter and this ring his braided hair on their so as just an amazing thing that the whole the hair of George Wash and back, then we cannot say hair. That's kind of creepy as for back down? That was how you passed yourself on from generation to generation should pass them lock of hair, and so that's from from Hamilton one of the scientists, the declaration, fifty six seiners- and this is kind of an interesting thing for me now been in history.

Yes I'll, speak at law schools and speak of these really sharp kits, and I can ask him I'll show me a picture of fifty six signers of declaration say who can you recognize up there and they use Jefferson Franklin I've. Only one time ever had somebody named third once in a way matters. Fifty six dash Gimme more and they never can. And so I find it interesting that basically, we ve been trying to recognise the two least religious guys. We know nothing about the others. And so, when you jump into this guy's, a sign of the declaration on his name is Francis Hopkinson. He designed the first American, George wash made. One were first federal judges, but he's a church music director enquire later, and this is actually the first purely american hymn book is the first handbook in a man. Could ever have music in it and what he did was at the hundred and fifty sobs music, So this the entire book Assam set to music is thing- was Lessing, the sobs like David saying this arm, so this, from a sign. The declaration

You also have items like this. This is the Bible from seventeen. Eighty two, this Bob often one thousand seven hundred and eighty two is one of the rarest in the world. They printed ten thousand copies back then there's a cop is left in private hands, and this is this one of them a few other, institutions. But what makes this amazing is on the inside of this Bible and by the way this is the first Bible printed in English in America, It has a congressional endorsement on the inside and it says, resolve the car The United States recommend this addition. Babo Hamish United States is printed by the printer of Congress. This was just in the Congress at this was quote a need addition, the holy scriptures for the use of schools, and you won't wait a minute. I saw the founding fathers did what religion your school at all and he got well when you do this. The congressional endorse Bible for the use of schools so that there are so many things like that, it's kind of fun to to back up even the works like this

this is a guy named John why's. He sees a pasture and Massachusetts and historians like a Coronel. They say when you look at this six greatest intellectual forces that help shape America, because we are different by the nations Uno professors draw some crazy to say american centralism. They hate that the average length of a constitution in the history of the world is seventeen years this year were two hundred and thirty two years under the same constitution, so we are unique where the exception not the rule, but when you take it look at where the ideas come came from professor said John Wise of one of the six most influential writers on the founding fathers thinking, and it was this sons of Liberty RI. Now this originally came out in one thousand seven hundred and ten and one thousand seven hundred and seventeen sons of liberty returning this in one thousand, seven hundred and seventy two? So this is a different from the sons of liberty, and it has two long sermons in here that he did and from this sermons we get the phrase that all men are created equal. We get the concept there endowed by the creator.

Certain an right. He talks about how that taxation without representation is tyranny. He talks about how that all the forms of government, the Bible, God preferred formerly consent of the government. All these phrases end up in the declaration came out of, His ride insists arms, So those are the kinds of things we have you not we're earlier. This is a guy really like John Locke, the two treatise a government Richard Henry. Lee signed. The declaration said that they quote copied the declaration out of this book, and so should go through this book. It's find a red amended mean that legit they apologized for government are amazing, Besides, the Bible references, the Bible more than fifteen hundred times in this, and this is what the founders used to create the successful document. So that's that, get John Hancock stuff in so many other founding fathers, but we just have a blast learning this stuff costs is not what we were taught in school Does this not what we were taught in school and ensuring it with others?

when one of the things they even talking about what is really important to me, I mean I wrote a book there that largely concerns. This is the image acts of religious thought on american founding thoughts, obviously you you it a couple of times. We should Honan on it. There's this idea that's taught in schools that effectively America is a secular country that it was founded along the idea of separation of church and state, and to this end, the first man is, is often cited. The idea that we can establish a religion and then forget- about the second half, which is that there is freedom of religion What exactly in your view, was the relationship of founding thought to religion? How much did the founders rely on religious thought and what do they think and of governance in religion have us you should be balanced. They were very adamant that you do not separate religious principles now doctrines, her one thing religious, prince, Well, Sir, or something else, and so when they said there should be no establishment religion back then, and establishment of religion was a state established religion. They had no trouble religion, they promoted at the first

federal law that was passed. Dealing with how you become a territorial, United States called the Northwest Ordnance, George wash and sign that our own August, the seventh of seventeen eighty nine, this thirty two states became states the United States, and that law specifically says article three religion, reality and knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind. Schools and means of education shopper ever be encouraged. So to this day, if you looking constitution like the car North Carolina Constitution look at our Kansas, except it says forever, and the public schools of the state religion. Morality would be taught as well as knowledge, so they saw. That is a mandate that you can't be part of America, for schools not promote religion round in which particular denied patient. Now we're not doing that, but the principles of Bible principles, of how we control ourselves behave. Behaviour are morality. How comes from there, and so they were shooting into promoting that

I mentioned that there were two documents had just kind of turn me around one of them was. I actually got a copy of what George watches Seventeen ninety six farewell address, and thus considered one of the most significant presence speeches ever given its interesting that we have a state laws from eighteen. Twenty were then eighteen, twenty You are required and states to take a written exam on four documents every year for the first eight years, a school and thus for documents were the: U S: Constitution, the declaration of independence, the state Constitution and George Wash and farewell address. You had to study that you had to know that a written exam for the first eight years, a school once a year itinerary that and the civil war Abraham Lincoln actually issued a general ordered all the union troops said guys if you're finding the enemy today and which has been the whole day? Reading George wash his farewell dress meditating on its principles, thinking about what he said so

happened over one Woodrow Wilson read the farewell So we really thought this was significant and in the Farewell Dress Washington is saying: ok here we are at two terms I believe in retiring you all know what we ve been through any talks but economic. She talks about what happened the revolution and he says, and now my fellow citizens as I leave here's a few thoughts and they're almost like warnings on me. One thing she says let the federal government get into deficit spending NOS one of his great warnings. He talks about. Would inform entanglements and try to keep sovereignty here and don't get tired foreign wars, and so- all this wise that, but what he says he says up all the habits and dispositions that lead to political prosperity, religion and morality or indispensable supports. He said in vain with that man claim the tribute of patriotism.

Who should labour is worth these great pillars. So he goes out saying guys. Anybody tries a separate religion, morality from public life from politics there, not patriots, they're, trying to destroy the nation and that's a big. Let me test, and I was told that Washington was a great deal that he was not a faith guy, and here he sang guys, don't if anybody tries to take faith out of the public square there. Not a patriot, I'm on my gun, That's not what I was taught. And so when I read his farewell address it really got me thinking what else did I make guitar right and so separation, church and states one of those phrases that the way we use it today probably best way? explain. The phrase did not originate with Jefferson. It originated back when the fourteen one thousand five hundred John Greenwood, a pastor and Great Britain, is probably the first got it credited with

paint it back in the one thousand five hundred, and so they wrote about four hundred years before Jefferson picked it up, so he was repeating what historical riders it said, but it even in Jefferson's letter which he wrote on January. First, one thousand eight hundred and two that's a famous letter. The court quote today on separation of church and state. That letter is two hundred and thirty. Three words. Long is three paragraphs. It's easy to put a footnote in any court case, and since one thousand nine hundred and forty seven know quote, no court is Gordon more than a towards a wall of separation between church and state. Does every court that used it before forty seven quart of the whole letter like rental, versus United States in eighteen. Seventy eight and every time they quoted the whole letter of Jefferson, they said, look based on what Jeffson said: separation, church and state made. You can't stop a public religious activity and so we ice cap, religion in public life, using the separation phrase. Until a case and forty seven called Everson versus Board of Education

and the course at all liquid. Like said Jefferson, we can't have any religion. Any religion read the there there's a and they don't put the whole letter in there when you read the whole letter you it's obvious what Jefferson set, because he had a group, in Connecticut, Send were afraid the governess gonna shut down our religious activities expression. He said now, there's Wall of separation Twitter to state they will knocked off your religious activities. That's not what we get today so that the kind of stuff that really story. Turning me over and said, I wasn't taught this. I got a whole for a line, even separation of church and state, and so, if you go back and look what chairperson did. Oh my gosh Jefferson started church in the: U S: capital. Building. Every week we had church in the capital by eighteen. Fifty seven, the largest church protestant Church United States, met in the capital. Every week, Jefferson started that he and body preachers to preacher that church house at separation. Well, there

while we don't look at what he actually did or said, would you choose a phrase from them? So I can only ask you about the religious new points of the founders, because those are often misconstrued arm misunderstood, but first with the ever increasing numbers of car makes models is now impossible to stop all the party need new traditional chain storefront. Why endure the often pointless and seemingly intimidating questioning like? Is your odyssey and Alex yes and then wait while the counter and orders the only parts on his computer just happening to you. He was the only brand his warehouse happens to carry well. You also have a computer with access to the internet, which is a really cool place, and that has access to rock auto dotcom at home and in your pocket, rock auto dot com is a family business. They serve to auto parts customers online for twenty years, but a rock auto dotcom and shop, for audio and body parts from hundreds manufacturers. If everything from engine can, oh modules and break parts to tell them motor oil even new carpet, whether it's for your classical daily driver, get everything you need in a few years ago, deliver directly to your door, quickly, see all

you prefer best of all prices at rock, auto dot com are always reliably low and the same for profession. Otto dot com are always reliably low and the same for professionals and do yourselves. Why spend twice as much for the same parts got amazing selection, reliably low prices. All apart your car, will ever need Rock otto dot com, I got come right now see all the parts available for your car truck Rachel Piero in there. Did you hear about his box, so they know we say you ok, so let's talk about the religious per back of the founders of the typical narrative goes in public education. I was in public school and I went to public school for fur colleges well, Typical historians tend to say that the founders four, basically ds that they believed in the clockwork universe. Her. He said the universe in motion and then through now natural law discoveries. We came up with all these wonderful ideas, but the Bible is really sort of a secondary. After thought. Did these well dear stayed there may have been servant, a root level. Fist, belief system that they believed in it. But when it came to the Bible didn't take,

literally that and take it seriously what Make of that characterisation of the founders. Characterizations the right words and it's based on the fact that we really don't know them who they are. We actually recruited one thousand eight hundred and forty eight public school textbook that we use for generations and public schools. We studied all fifty six signers of the declaration. We knew who they were their names, their character, sacrifices we need their faith, their family, we all about them today. We know the small handful I was recently with an academic at at Notre Dame he a job means said you overstate the faith of the founding fathers. They were largely bias. I said: ok, here's the deal, you name it a deal. What you call you name what you call it is founding father and for everyone, you name all name five over once. It today would probably be considered evangelicals in and religious terms. She named, want a five. Let's see, who runs out first? Well, he get through three or four and can ran out. I'm still go.

One over here on the other side and the problem is we take the the least and we make that to the rule and the rule is that, for example, the fifty six seiners and declaration twenty nine of them graduated. Schools that in their day, were considered Bible, schools or seminaries. Now you have a heart, convincing me that ideas is going to attend a Bible school or seminary a place that trained ministers, and they were largely Christians. So that's their faith. We say in Afghanistan and the rise which you, why would collect such an unjust and an easy one, is to take somebody like eight John Hancock This is an original proclamation. John Hancock- and this is the state of Massachusetts and by the way, he's calling them to a day of public fasting humiliation, prayer witches. Early, serious, that's kind of serious on your faith, but you find throughout that he is very open. As a Christian, he he caught talks about Jesus

price and Saviour Excetera twenty two times he called the state of Massachusetts of prayer like this, you find it by the time you get to one thousand, eight hundred and fifteen. There have been one thousand four hundred government issued calls Print America, largely by founding fathers serve their deepest. What are they heavy pregnant and why they call your prayer with what might be considered evangelical language there's he would alternate oftentimes with thanksgiving and fast in. This is one of her. Cox, Thanksgiving proclamations. This is when we found out An addict was trying to kill George Washington and its attraction. Amazing story- and he says, while the fingerprints of God in this are such didn't know that this was a God thing, because the way the weight came out, they should never discover the treason.

Never been scum. Roofs too well laid plan so from about another sort of anything, tell a story that this story is really can interrupting, because Benedict Arnold had an ego and his ego didn't get mass in the american Army cause. He thought he should be improved did much faster and he wasn't being recognised, wasn't being promoted. So he start saying the British will respect middle honor me. I get a promotion through them, and so I started working the British is in charge of West point by the way, the biggest statute you fine. When you go to the battlefield Saratoga, which is the first major victory MAC Revolution massive statue of Benedict Donald cause. He was the hero, it was a miracle general. He was courageous, but he just in making he enough respect and so because in that eagle kind of thing he turns the British, and so he works with them and because his american general is so good. He has West point out. West point is under his control, and so he makes his plan to give Westport.

To the british and he's gonna happen there at the time the George Washington arrives, so they can kill washing recapture washing in in everything right there, sir. What happens is a british officer Andre John? hungary- is going back and forth worth Benedict Arnold, and so they make the plans laid out Andrey actually takes the plans. False him up in the bottom, the shoe to hide in cases in which stops, and they won't find it and he gets into what is cons, It has to be a safe part of New York and is run by the British. All the more or less through their his The American Pardon New York is back in the british port of New York. Any runs up on three guys source talking to and and this that that their british gas, I can tell him what's goin on start sharing more information than it should have, turn out there. Weren't british guys. There were three american militiamen who had just escaped from a british prison and so here's three America's who shouldn't even be in this area. They were prisoners, they got free,

and now, as Arnold starts becoming a little too open with them, they start getting look curious and they start thinking this. Smell ride. So they actually grab him and taken to an american post which ones post be in that area. Also, everything was improbable all the way through they searched in full anything and they said I search again and for some reason checked. The bottom of shoe found the papers, so I just everything was: it is just too many coincidence. Is that what they saw? This says to providential to too much God here and sought. That's why Hancock called for that that time, thanksgiving and its interest in another part of american history that I think we do Very poor job with today is when you look at American. History is largely wide and protestant. For example, we never talk about the jewish founding fathers were particularly that jewish cooperation back then, the fact that John at present John Adams Present John Quincy Adams, both called for the reestablishment

Israel as an independent nation. Back on that day I mean nobody knows that, and then you start talking about what founding women did and how that wives like Fred List with Louis the wife of France's those signed. The declaration was a prisoner of war for what she did for the revolution actually died as a result it, and so there were three women who were persons were amidst what the women did is unbelievable, and then you throw it, for example, what what blacks did in the resolution? We think of revolutions. Bunch white guy Now there were so many black founding fathers. Viking call them that, and what are the best stories deals with Benedict Arnold, because vintage once they discovered treason he jumped over the British, are quick to get out of town before he gets executed for treason. And so he is now british they make him a general So as the the british Army is moving south out of New York down toward Yorktown, pin it on a big part of that he he took his soldiers

He it New London Connecticut than the Battle Groton Hijjus Benedict Arnold killing, Americans, and so you get it he's now. British general. And as they work down into Virginia one of the problems George Wash and has in young General Lafayette. Is they just don't have any intelligence on what the British are doing? They don't know what the British do until they see it is like. If we can know we could play we can be prepared, and so a black man named James arms dead became good friends with Lafayette. He was fighting in the resolution. An Lafayette White Guy Lafayette was massive, anti slavery, guy and so big equality. Guy and issues talk in his car I like in the conversation it kind of goes that Lafayette says man. If we could just have some intelligence know what they were doing is so help us and, and James said,.

I'm willing to go. Do that and locket narrow that that's way too dangerous dangers, and so there talking and James is now I'll do that and so what hams as James go straggling into the british camp and a straight going in and he is a says about escape slave. I hate him Americans are so mean amid their distant and answer the british avoid we'll take in, and so he begins faithfully serving the bridge fish and fairly soon they say hey while we let you serve the officers cause you're, really good, great attitude. Just will we love you, so they made him the servant to benefit all the British. General! So here you got a spy now who's with been startled and honour. With all the other british generals as are making their plans, and so what happened this change. Almost every night gets word to Lafayette and Washin. Here's what they're doing and said the british move around and suddenly the Americans want, where they're supposed to be in their over the bridge or an

they send Benedict Arnold, often emissions. So he's gone so James days behind the british camp and law. Cornwallis, actually takes them on his his servants and any get the commander in chief with a spy there and they're? Having a conversation kind of thing and is slight Cornwallis is we ve got a spy in the camp? Some work is now the Americas know what we're doing before we do it in. Names on those? Can we really hard, but you ve been so good us I know you hate this idea, but would you go back and be a spy for us against the Americans and they are now don't they may go back the Americans, if saying he becomes the first double spine american history and because of his intelligence is why were able to trap Cornwallis out and Yorktown in the American Revolution so I should like the other guys credit, a black double spy. First double spot american history with bringing the revolution to an early and saving countless lives, who's ever heard James Armistice

the who's ever heard of a guy, like you, have a guy princess in one of the first seal team members. Ever that guy? What a remarkable mission they had in Newport and capturing a british general and just as is the stuff of Hollywood movies, and there are so many black folks, most people and in the end I have no idea that their name, the Hoosier state, named after a black preacher named Harry, loser the converted, so many people there moved in the Indiana that was known as the who's, your state, after a black guy in the American found it. So you have all these black soldiers. We know nothing about what we did a day's wait. We showed the bad and the ugly about America, but not much of a good and self weakens slavery, which is southern view, will do that, but we're not going to point out that there was never a time in Massachusetts when blacks cannot vote that we had blacks, elected office in American, one thousand, seven hundred and sixty what were chairs were reelected for forty nine years hold a different political positions. He was kind like the black Paul Revere.

Road New England warning people by the british coming. We don't hear these guys, and so that's one of the things I think we really do wrong on history. Today is I know so little about it and we characterize so much and the characterizations not accurate. All this goes back to your simple question of the faith has found its would characterize him, his DS, why we choose two or three or four and even they're, not dis and then you can choose Franklin Franklin early in his writings that I'm a deist, but then George Wesco comes to America. He gets George is George actually built a place on his ass for whipple to stay and after with been there, their Franklin life goes in a different direction and he is such a faith guy for the rest of his life. But people pointed at one letter. He wrote when it was twenty, something pretty call himself the disc and they don't look at the change that happened in later life so that even the gas recalled CALL George Wash

I mean the guys who knew him best chaired sparks did the first edition washes writings. He actually interviewed all the people who, with washing lot of people, I can't say, I'll keep people even their views on family, and they said you might as well question Washington. Patriotism question is Christianity, everybody in a decent way, cd so he got his records. We ve his writings writings today we call him him ideas and it just doesn't lineup historically and that's that's why we like original documents and going by and by the way, but I gotta say so appreciate you for your faith. Your stand for faith. I appreciate you for your love for truth, the kid Goin back to truth and you don't care for defence. Both sides are either side. And your courage in doing that and that love of truth and when you go back to the actual document, you get such a different narrative of American, we see today so ask about one specific founding father and though the one

people always side is that the key DS, Jefferson, who writes the Jefferson Bible goes through removes all sections that he finds troublesome Julius. Relating to miracles. How should we view Jefferson's faith because people, because he wrote declaration of independence and obviously becomes president declaration of independence, is seen as in many ways, even or foundational towards the country than the constitution. Lincoln, obviously thought They could only read the two in tandem and it was for that reason that the civil war was worthwhile and moral. So, looking at a Jefferson's faith, How should we adjudicate where'd, you, person wise in terms of his belief in God, was he just appear deist, no, not at all a Smet, Affright LE monde let me get rockwork on what you said, declaration and constitution. You cannot separate the two, the Fanny Father said you couldn't they specifically said that

and the? U S coat annotated today, the two documents you cannot violate with any law or the declaration and the constitution so modern stuff we separate deck. A declaration has so much faith in it. The constitution. Doesn't the constitution has a lot of faith can easily pointed out, but people think it does so in their minds, separate the religious from secular and in a striking that the constitution article seven day to to the declaration,

goes. Every federal law. Son present, Trapani Sign Leslie doesn't go to the constitution, goes to the declaration, so we'd never separate those two to modern culture, one kind of secularize it going back to Jefferson. When people ask me Beth, Jeffson Bible that question I get well, he cut our old thing. She disagreed with, and then I saw asking them. Questions said: okay, which Jefferson Bob. What are you talking about when he made the Jeff Zimbabwe yet which one you talk about? Eighteen afford: eighteen, twenty one there were two yeah: well, if they don't others too, I don't know they don't know they're talking about, then I ask: what have you ever read either wonderful we'll know within had he known cut out the miraculous supernatural sort of way says:

Right so go back and read it. So if we go back to the one thousand, eight hundred and four version he's in the White House he's president it takes to bibles. He cuts out sections in the Bible, pace them all together. Now, that's the first Jefferson Bible and he did that largely he had been given a friend piece of you got guy named pisco I a sermon from a guy in Scotland they Bennet and the guy, Scotland said. Look if, if you want to reach american native Americans with Christianity, do not give them a Bible cause if you did they might read the genealogies they would. They might read, and that's not what you want. He said what you need to do, is take the teaching of Jesus and give them to teachers. Adjacent don't get in the whole Bible and Jefferson. Great idea. So what Jefferson cut out was what, in in christian turn, should be called the red letters of the Bible so cut out the words Jesus. You them all and in if you read that,

You find Jesus. He Linda sick and raise is there a so ok what happen all the supernatural, Mercosur there is there, and so ok what happened? all the supernatural stuff that you said he cut out because it is there and by the way he did that he gave that to submit. France? He was really close native Americans here really and wanting to share the Bible with them, and so he gave that to some missionary friend said: this is much cheaper to print them. The whole bible. These are the teachers of Jesus and instead of going through for teachers and four gospels has got the teaching one time she don't read of four times so was often called synoptic Bible, has just a linear bible and teaches you so it has supernatural stuff all throughout so say. Well, obviously couldn't this week about eighteen afore about investments, big mouth, eighteen, twenty Bob I've ever read that no ok, let's talk about that because all this, I'm telling you this is all recorded Jefferson's rights. These are in a shrine. Is people look at the price

but they don't read what he said or why he did it or anything else say they just jump to this characterisation again. So the eighteen, twenty one Jefferson, start writing. So many of his friends, you said the thing that helps you have limited government is having moral people. And when you have more people you have less need for outside gamma. Could she have more internal german? So here on reading the writings of every moral philosopher he could find he I mean Pythagoras and Cato on played on all the gas and he told friend after friendly said, I've read them all and I think the moral teaches of Jesus better than any of those teach and so what he did in his own handwriting? He went through an Eighty want what he considered the best moral teachings of Jesus and he then pasted them in the end and an day book that he had.

But because he spoke several languages, he also pasted the same teachings and the end and the latin and greek and in fresh, and so he would read all all the teachers Jesus for languages And so that's what he ran on a daily basis, nobody really knew he had that book and tell the Library of Congress Cyrus Adler and one thousand eight hundred and eighty six was talking to a grandson of Jefferson and the grandson. I've got his book on all the moral teachings of Jesus would like to buy this. The library of Congress bought it, nineteen, or to a congressmen, John Lacy out of our read this and said this is the greatest collection more teachings. We were

for saying so I started writing off bad about Jefferson, Jefferson, bibles what it became known as, and so he wrote off pads and in one thousand, nine hundred and four Congress took it and reprinted it and gave a copy to every member of Congress. The next fifty years and said, if you will live by the moral teachings here, you won't have ethical problems. You won't have corruption excetera. And so it's that's. What's called the Jefferson Bible today, Jefferson's own handwriting, because the book ass- a reproduction Jefferson's O notes It's called the life and morals of Jesus of Nazareth, and so has the great command love God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your my forgive, your enemies. Kindness to enemies eighty one more teachers and thus Jefferson Bible and they say, it doesn't have any any supernatural stuff in it. It does, but that wasn't his purposes purpose was collected more patients, so if you're tellin

the Jefferson so hated the Bible that he emanated supernatural than first she got explained with eighteen offers all about I can also show you all sorts of supernatural stuff because of Heaven and hell and angels all sorts of stuff in the moral teachings of Jesus who bought them have supernatural, but then I've gotta ask you to explain to me why it is Jefferson was a lifetime member of the Virginia Bible society be so. Bibles, wives, the it a member and if he so, bibles. Why was one of the three largest contributions he ever gave was to a Bible? Society have spread bibles and why is it that he gave a full bible to every one of us, kids grandkids when they learn to read that was the first reading. Bookie warning now is a full bible, so I asked people say if chefs so hates the Bible than how do you explain all this? behaviour, and the problem is since about nineteen o three, what's known as a unity,

parents have said. Jefferson's Unitarian, he didn't like Jesus and so and they have adopted him but academically. You can sustain them position, and so, when you look at truth and reject recent ridings, when you actually read both of the book suggestion Bible, you come up with a completely different conclusion than what academic you know, how does that? Academics, they repeat each other, they don't go back to regional sources, they quote each other, and so that's how the Jefferson's got a bad rob S just ass to his faith. He kept calling himself a Christian now as a Christian, we say: probably not. Orthodoxy in some is ablaze, but he caught. Certainly didn't run from that title. I was

say from my standpoint is probably not a Christian, but that's not my decision. That's gods decision, that's it! If he, if he had here, did that faith, he was an enemy of it by enemies. He was enemy of some of its doctrines, but never of Jesus and never of the scriptures just some parts of it. So that's that's kind of really. If I say that kind of the truth behind the viable to adjust rarely get today. So one of the things that I want to ask you about is what the role of the state was in promoting the ledge enough early on because obviously this has become very controversial proposition. Ask about, then, just a second, but first you get to the end of the day you trying to go to sleep and you find it really difficult, you're struggling but you're not alone, one in three of US adults doesn't get enough sleep. I m. One of these people not sleeping enough, it can affect our cognitive function. During the day, like learning problem, solving decision making. That's why we're partners calm. The number one app for sleep sleep to fish,

see the serious damage, not just your brain, but your body as well. The sleepless are more prone to accidents. Weight gain, depression with cod It discover a whole library of programmes designed to help you get to sleep, your brain, and body need, like sounds gaped at Dover hundred sleep stories, narrated by soothing voices like Rome Flynn from gaming throats and Stephen fry? So, if you want to seize the day sleep tonight, with the help of calm right now My listeners Ben Shapiro listeners get twenty five percent off a calm premium subscription at com, dot com, slash ban at sea, EL, am dotcom Fleischmann forty million people have downloaded, find out why at com, dot, com, its life and by the way doesn't work on adult and also works on children. They got these sleep stories. Put your kids right out go check them out right now and calm dot com, slash ban at sea element. Dotcom, slash been ok. So what Let's talk about. There's hint of a rich debate is broken and modern times right now,

and it has a lot of historical antecedents. Obviously, and that is what is the role of governments in promoting or or not promoting religious institutions, so that this debate is, I think, quite fascinating because it puts a lot of conservatives against each other. You have folks who consider themselves classically liberal. I put myself more this category, where I it did the entire bar again of the government was that the government was basically goes to stay out of this room specifically because they assume there would be a moral and religious people, those going to fill that gap, and there were folks said: the government should take a more forcible position in trying to promote really just morality, judeo, christian morality, What's your view of where the found came down on the found, came down on is being part of the culture of the side, not the doctrine society, but the culture society. You wanted a biblically moral, you one of the biblical me because of culture. There were a lot of moles available time. I may we had a third your war? Will we fought muslim morals and it was because we did not. Agree with their morals, when the Americans,

revolution and one thousand seven hundred and eighty three really the first foreign group for ambassadors that Congress and Soutas in one thousand, seven hundred and eighty four this Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and has been Franklin and it's gonna go stay with the Muslims at Cape attacking us, and so we end up with a third to your war, guess against guests. Islamic terrorist part of that is when the first correct honest printed in America and It was done by Isaiah Thomas, which kind like the psalmist Schuster their day and they print. It said guys need to read what's in here, because when you read what's in the Koran you'll understand why this is so incompatible with the morals and the values we, but they think you go to Heaven for killing people. I got your kind of morals. Is that an that's? Actually what Jeffrey and wrote a letter to the State Department in seventeen. Eighty six, he said we finally asked us this muslim bastard. We ve done nothing, do as muzzle. Why do you keep attacking us? Why do you keep hidden our ships and killing our guys enslaved

they said because as how we go to Heaven and Jeffreys like no way, and so that's when Jefferson went and bought a crime for the first time and read it to voice said again in London in seventeen sixty four addition read it and that helped him then know how to fight them and subsequent years when he sent the army and Navy Tripoli from the house, monism assures the trip. Lay the marine corps him. So there were were more. They were incompatible with what we believe or constitutional freedoms Sharia law, would be within that because they don't allow religious freedom. So we believed that the government needed to promote those things that it wanted preserve and if we want to preserve freedom, you get a promote the things. It then enhanced freedom, because if you have a people that don't believe those place than you can survive as a nation which is kind of where we are now or so polarize. There was yet their own values system and you can't be cohesive as a nation Within that framework they promoted what we would call

local values and morality. Now I point out that you take somebody like Ben Franklin. I don't think he was acquitted, but I will also point out that he was very close friends with Thomas Paine and Thomas Paine, probably is the least religious or the founding fathers. So, but even at that pain is not anti is not anti religion. The way you presented that we actually have a six page letter from Thomas Paine, where that he is defending himself from the attacks made him by the founding fathers, because instead one thousand eight hundred and ninety three came out what the age of reason and age of reason attacked: Judaism, attack, Christianity, tapped old testament, new testament went after all of it, but it was pro God. And so when the founding father saw that they attacked him, Patrick Henry wrote a whole book against him. You had SAM Adams, doing Op Eds on him and and and Boston newspapers. You had George Washington never spoke to him again. I mean the guys just turned their back you're, going to be

Tat religious you're, not the guy without you were, and so in that period time before he brought the age abrasion. He actually took the manuscript ideas, assume all have been Franklin and said: hey look over this tunnel to take, and so it's an attempt to remove religion from America and Franklin brought him back and said, this is a terrible idea. He said I would advise you to burn this paper, but forty seen by any other person, I talked about what would be to ensure the tiger and and if you take the biblical morals out of America, do you realize what you're doing and so he said thank how great a portion of mankind have. Needed the motors, your religion, to restrain their wise to support their virtue, and so Franklin advice not too, he went ahead and did it suffered them the taxi here, but when SAM Adams wrote that peace against pain adopt at the boss and pay

Bruce pain. Then wrote this six page letter back to to SAM atoms and ass a letter we have. He says I am a huge, I believe he said I wrote the age of reason because I saw France had in a long in the is, is assembled, destroy any nation, I'm trying to tell them they need God and the don't blame Christine. Internal judicial, but you need got and- So even the least religious founding father, Thomas Pain is trying to keep God at the centre of the nation. Is, being God conscious is restrain on your behaviour of scripture are pretty clear for faith people that if you stop thinking about God, your behavior change is really quick, and so we do thanks to help us remember to think about God and the way we treat one another is different when we think about gotta Canada him. So that's where the founding fathers

I mentioned there were two documents, a really kind of flipped me. One was Washington's farewell address. Where he's clearly saying, if you want political prosperity, don't secularize the country, don't secularize the nation, don't take religion out. The second thing to hit me was, I found an one thousand, eight hundred and forty four. U S Supreme Court case! That was a unanimous decision and in that case the court now in my life, I've been involved with eight cases at the Us Supreme Court that have dealt with religious expression, someway shaped fashion form so as I was reading this one thousand eight hundred and forty four case, it was quoting founding fathers like James Wilson, who was a signer of the constitution and declaration second most active member of the constitutional convention. He is an original justice on the Supreme Court started the first loss, I'm in a big guy.

And it's quoting all these founding fathers- and I was reading the case, but it said hey: if you're going to be a government funded school in America, you will teach the Bible we're not going to have a government phone, the school that won't teach the Bible, because we need the morals that come from the Bible. It said you have to see to the Bible. Without notary comment, you don't go through an adoption to it just teach the Bible as it as a book, and so that was the position we took all the way until one thousand nine hundred and sixty three that position change in sixty three were in the sixty two first independent Engel by Talvin, seven hundred and sixty three and a punishment marine corps. Let the court said hey, we think what we've been doing for three hundred forty years is wrong: no more voluntary prayer, no more bible reading! That's all going in the significance of me that in those cases the court said what we're doing is without historical or legal precedents. Never poured the american history so literally in Ark,

Action of self we have lots of educational documents, were big sexual education, textbooks on on what this geography or math or English. One of the textbook she found across all generations is Bible, Aldwin education to sixty three, so we taught that without the morals were good. We don't have to be a question. Do you will have to be religious person? But if you, if he behaved by those morals, we have self governing nation less carbon needed them. Government, so that was really the view they saw. They did not want the government promoting religions or penalize promoting religious doctrines or penalised in people for not having the right doctrine but they did want to promote religion, morality, but not all religion, that all morality, biblical morality is what they were after, and so they did make that distinction like with muscles and others all the muscles are always welcome to come to America. We never, but we did say but realize. When you get here the moral standards we use our

These judeo Christian, more standards turn second and ask you about that. That there is a question that I've been asked. As I say in my new book, I write a fair bit about this, and one of the questions that I am often asked is well, you know It is true that there is a lot of christian talk at the time of founding It's true that people are studying the Bible, but that's because- yeah, that's just what everybody did at the time. Was this really your key? to the philosophy of the founding, is very real connection between the Bible and the philosophy of the founding, and ask you that question in just one second, As you know, from watching the news, the big tech companies are all looking for your data. Why? Because they make jobs and jobs of cash, because you and I are giving them all of that data for free. If you want to give them your data go right ahead, but you I know that you too can be earning money off your own data with big token. Here's how work. First, you download the when you sign up for a free, big token account. Next, you complete actions to earn points, action, include answering surveys checking into locations. Acting or social accounts and more then, can redeem those points for awards like cash and gift cards. You came in

your earnings maturity of that kind of person Youtube, What data you share with big token and then you get paid for it. Your data is always secure. In big token, the best part you get paid. If you a start earning money for your data, go to the app store or Google play search for big token, that's b, I e g g o k e en that's one word download the app Sign up make sure use my referral code, Bennett, Shapiro again such big token. In the app store or Google play download, the EP use my referral code. Ben Shapiro to sign up claimer data. Get pay, there's no reason. Everybody else should make money off your data, use your own data and get paid at big token and use Referral code Ben Shapiro to sign up already so the The question that I was posing before the break is that you're one when folks tat about sort of the connection between sounding philosophy and judeo christian morality. There's this attempt by some, to basically say well sure all these people read the Bible, ensure they refer to the Bible but the, but that this is because this is what the

what else would they be wasn't like, there was a thriving atheistic community in eight in one thousand, seven hundred and sixty in the same way that there is in say one thousand nine hundred and sixty so is This really more of a just sort of happened here and everybody happen to be christian and believe in today christian values or was there some deep philosophical connection between you oh christian values and the american founding I'm gonna back into the answer that question a couple of ways, one is for all the collection that we have a founding document. We have more than a hundred and twenty thousand original four copies ritual founding document. Before eight hundred twelve, so I have so many of the hand. Written documents. Are these guys and having read thousands and thousands and thousands. Of their letters and are worked cetera, and having myself study the Bible for a long time and I as a kid I grew up and I believe that you need to read the scriptures kind of life recovery cover every year. You know you go through it,

and so therefore, I am very familiar with biblical rhetoric and language Anna had read. The founders rides I kept seeing these babo versus all throughout the riders so what happened was a few years ago a publishing company came to me said: hey what you would you do, a common turn, the Bible now here and in my opinion, but I know somebody who can comment on the Bible and so we did. We took the letters, the founding fathers and when what city specific Babo verse for why they did something we, let that be. The comet turn that poor, the Bob so result in what we call the founders Bible, its them commenting on the Bible, but as an exam, we did separation of powers now other setoc by separation powers, modest, you in France, the principal and german? Seventy nine is why we did separation of powers now other setoc by separation powers, modest you in France, in the Spirit of laws, now but he had done separation of powers. The way we did until America and John Adams said. We got that on German, seventy nine and, by the way,

my one hundred seventy nine, since the horrors is desperately wicked. Who can know it has a separation powers and their thing is look. Schuman, Tennessee is to be bad hearted unless you have a religious and Forester to make you better, and so they said, that's a history of mankind. I mean you have three branches of government, Great Britain, but when the king is bad, the judiciary is bad in the parliament based on what we say that the heart wicked. Maybe we can create a system where that all three harsh won't be wicked. At the same time, maybe judiciary goes bad. We can have the present Congress, stop that and so that bad, high principle, that without gods in flood sheet, you do the wrong thanks. That's what really draw them say. Let's put power really distinguish and checks and balances,

and so we are really the first government do that, but they found it in biblical reasoning. No, when you get into oaths- and you talk about the other five out clauses, the constitution, Rufus King Sign or the constitution talked about how their oath system came out of the Bible, how and then you go through any you find for things that we do in the other day, manufacturer told their armies God says I swore an oath by my right hand, and, and you go through any you find for things that we do in the autumn day manifest we told did Romney swear oats in his name, which is why we say so help me, God, so everything we do in the Oath Valley, Father Rufus King said we did the US the way we do in America, because what the Bible teachers

and so what we found was it's not just philosophical part of the culture we find them saying this Bible verse. For example, a guy named James can't is called the Father of american jurisprudence. You said when we created our judicial system are he's one of the two guys responsible for our judicial system. It said we set it up with the we have circuit court judges. You're Supreme Court. Today they back on that day they get on horse, they actually all road. A circuit today there over them I are going to whatever. But James can't said, we got that first Samuel, seven, whether says Samuel judged Israel any road. This. Get from deal about Miss by the judge,

we're going out among the people and traveling and that's why they should have a circuit court that would travel so when I found all of those verses that are specific to not just generic tone in a tone versus these are specific application. They got me really intrigued, but then I think what really maybe the best answer. Your question is this books called the origins of american constitutionalism. This is done by professors at University of Utah, Polly saw professors as published by El Issue Press and these gases, you know when you look at the american documents. Brick differ from a realization. We have ideas, nations never implemented where I found was get those ideas and they said. We think that if we back in red what they wrote and see who they quoted? Moreover, they gather ideas, so they collected fifteen thousand represented

right, it's out of the founding Europe. They went through all fifteen thousand. They found three thousand one hundred fifty four direct quotes. It took them ten years to document every quote back to its rich, a source at the end of ten years has said. We now know what the founders got their ideas. Are the number one must cited individual and when you ve got thousand years writings and you ve got tens of thousands patients have come and gone. You get a lot of people you can choose from. They said number one must cited. Individual was Charles, modest Q, Baron minuscule, France, the Spirit of law. Seventeen fifty eight point: three percent- that's What for one guy, when you get thousands against Jews? Shrimp number two was William Blackstone. His four line commentary on the the laws come turn the laws that was number to ascend point. Nine percent number three was John Locke at two point: nine percent, particularly this but well off the traces of government. Does

but the type cited individuals, but what they found that was really kind of shocking, was The single most sided source in the American Fanny was the Bible. Thirty four percent, as four times more than lock for swift us more than block four times more than queue for TAT, one, the blacks in the Bible and then they set, which Babo versus recorded most often books into the army is the number one must quarter book where that is. It was building its nation. Moses is setting up the nation and I say I was next misquoted, so I mean even the secular academics have documented that the Bible was the primary source in the ideas it. Shake the American found it. So it's not like it's in the atmosphere. Listen to culture is guys, really did think according to specific Bible verses, they apply them, and so between that and the founders Bible, and it's pretty compelling that it was just not the atmosphere, the culture. It was, the thinking that went behind it

Another question ass to what specifically in this context, is great to the Bible is instrumental in american founding. The Bible is also used for nefarious purposes. People quoting the Bible in order to justify slavery for centuries. So How do you answer the the accusation? Actually the Bible can be used for any variety of reasons. In some of those reasons have been quite awful overtime, The way I answer is with the concept of original intent, because when you look at original intent, when you take a clause out of the constitution, you can make a say something was never designed to say. For example, we say federal judges help lifetime appointments. While the guys who wrote the constitution, says with definite dont, want la time appointed for judges that crucial I started one thousand seven hundred and sixty five with SAM Adams, who said the two biggest problems. We got rid of judges if they have blocked. Appointments, are not accountable if we ever

the dual government will never have lifetime appointments. So in the constitution actually says good behaviour judge it could serve the duration, good behavior. What good behaviour look at the first six judges they took off the court in their lifetime. You took judged off the core one guy custom the courtroom this it s. Bad behaviour for bread will judge you're gone in ozone. There were no lifetime of pointless. Now we take that clause to say you have lacked time appointments, that's not original intent where you can take Bible versus and make them look like their pro slavery. But when you read the whole context of the Bible, it's a liberty, but it's all about love it's all all about self. It's all by how you treat others. You treat others the way you wanna betrayed, you wanna be a slave. Will then don't make slaves, so there will always be occasions and that, as part of the nature of man again, that's why we had checks and balances. Gus man's heart, when you are trying to make

you're an justify. Your means. Your fine thanks, it'll say things that yeah. I can take a Bible burst here there, but when you know the whole scripture and put it all together is hard to do that. But there is no question that, and this is the story, human nature. You know there's good people, does bad people, even good people can do bad things like Dave is one of the heroes of the Bible. My gosh is the worst Father ever can't raise his kids and then what does shape and murders IRAN, but Overall, he did really good things, but he had bad episodes. So you in that part time you can justify a lot and look for versus justify so far made all this back to original intent. The Bible is a lie. But book and is the abolitionist who finally prevailed. The abolitionist were largely the most religiously dedicated people will be. The quakers, the congregation US founding fathers, like Benjamin Rush, whose is found in the first abolitionist,

Presbyterian material, those guys are really Babo oriented without the loudest advocates for anti slavery and for freedom. Yes, you have southern preachers who tried to make their poor, even have some jewish writers try to make that point but overall, the religious communities really over here and so even to day you'll have a little schisms of shoot off religious people trying to make a point and thereby assess Weymouth. That's not what the whole book says when you take the whole book and I think that what you have to do that because there's gonna be religious, people did some really bad stuff, but overall religious people than much more good than ever them bad, and that's why you have to look at the good, the bad and the ugly and judge Fine, but the big picture funny not just by America, stands right now, as we had deep religious route, we ve seen a lot of those routes. Really a road people go to church, while less very few people have even a baseline familiarity with the Bible, our educational, Not only does it teach the Bible but is specifically prevent from doing so, so, dear

What what's your hope for sore the future of the country, given the lack of? the founding literacy and biblical literacy that that's prevailing, I'm very active and government politics. We have a very large network of legislators, the that were over. I work and public policy. All the time again been involved Supreme court cases. None of that is an excuse for why individual people dump study the scriptures and apply and limit themselves and teacher to their friends and neighbours. I don't need the government doing that now that I would like the government to reinforce what works and religious morality does. Work would be nice if they were not enemies of it. If there were at least allies and friends- so, even when you look at risk recent decisions like the blades birds position, which is worth the Supreme Court, said: hey it's ok to have that war, memorial and shape of crossing Marilyn. Suddenly there not being hostile to their at least accommodating peoples on religious expressions,

and so you in that situation, but that doesn't change the fact that, right now, it's speaking for Christians, only fourteen percent of Christians read the Bible on a daily basis. That's not a garments fall, that's people, as for end, but I can't load the garment and say enough. The nineteen eighty Supreme Court case coldstone be Graham. When I acts it was about the ten commandments in Kentucky classrooms. Actually the competent and that led to the supreme poor case is very intriguing because in the schools can lucky as she would walk through the schools Hall ways or many pictures hand the walls, a picture, George Washington Tape, wider Cape, Hatteras, lighthouse and horse run it through a pasture, and but one of the pictures was a copy. The ten commandments, just just and it was important classroom, one part of the curriculum, but the question was asked what the fish dude sees the ten commandments. What have they turn aside and

over there and read the question: is it constitutional for student to voluntarily read a copy of the ten commandment to school? The Supreme Court came back to the absolute, not intend to court. The court is said of a student worth to see the ten commandments. They might be induced to read them if they were read them, they might better right, respect and obey them and that the unconstitutional, oh yeah, thanks like don't steal and don't kill him, don't purchaser. So legally, we can't even put in front of kids what sang it more than fifty locations of praying for. Your supreme Court has more than fifty two pictures of ten commandments, summer Stone stone Summer on on the wall separates the Supreme Court bench. The justices from the Supreme Court attorneys there's latticework their brows last. Were ten commandments on every Medina Gruff, so you're not Lenny. Kid say the basis of our legal code, it's easier to find the ten commandments and a government bill.

It was in the gum about it than a place of worship, and now you can even do that. So I mean the government would at least not hostile. It would be helpful, but now they're saying you can't even let kids know the ten commandments are thank how good Chicago would be if they at least knew the ten commandments and stop killing each other one every eight hours or whatever it is in things like don't steal and don't thus, your good wholesome thanks. So I can look and say that I think the governments had a role in creating an environment is for hostile to religion. We have facilitated legally. We called the centres veto. If somebody Jack's too, somebody else, sharing their faith, we're going to make everybody else stop. So this got want to check nonsense. You don't let one person v2 everyone else, and so that's starting to change with the new justices new course we're starting to win some things. We haven't won in fifty sixty years, Christina turn, but that still won't never excuse why individuals don't go back and study. The scriptures himself

learn the teachings lead, those teaches become benevolent, become good citizens become more citizens, become good neighbours, help others government doesn't do that. We can, but the government can reinforce that second, ask you one final question that I would ask you you brought some of the while with you today and much? What are your actual favorite artifacts? Wonderful to hear the history really appreciate hear David Martin's answer you have to be a daily wire subscribers subscribe had an over daily wire click, subscribing near the end of our conversation over their debt burden. While those thank you so much for stopping by and it's it's wonderful to hear the history really appreciate thanks the impression you broke. The bench of Euro Show Sunday Special is produced by Jonathan Hank executive producer. Jeremy, boring associate producer. Mathis Glover, edited by Donovan felt Audio is mixed. My comment here and make up is by just we're all their title: graphics,

Cynthia, Angola, the bench Shapiro show Sunday Special is a daily wire production. Copyright daily wire, twenty nineteen.