I'm worried about the kids who get this the teenagers who get maligned as awful bigots racist, xenophobic transposed just for having an opinion, that may not go with the main stream now how the media shames people out of an honestly Helder, religiously held opinion and controversial issues it's gonna get worse. Unless people speak up. If you our political commentary at all the century? You know Megan Golly, one, the most, bunch of voices on the political scene for well over a decade, she's been at the forefront of political news, covering elections to listing debates from in commentary, since she began at Fox NEWS in two thousand and four at fox. She hosted multiple hit, shows including the wildly Popular America live as well as the unbelievably popular the Kelly file after leaving Foxen twenty seventeen He went on toast Megan Kelly today on NBC a May media giants. Megan has been one of the sea longest voices for real female empowerment, as opposed to the toxic brand of modern feminism.

So often peddled in the media now having left behind traditional television, Egan has moved into my territory the world of podcasting, her new show. Megan Kaliko Premier last month with her hard hitting commentary and an incredible slate of staggeringly illustrious gas such as well me problems mothers. The show has been an instant success. as successful as Megan has been in her career. She's also repeated we found herself embroiled in controversy from her challenges. It fox news to her feet with Donald Trump Card tumultuous relationship with NBC Megan, and I discussed all of the facts and explored what the media, just got plain wrong, there's more to the story than you might think hope you enjoy our conversation. Hey and welcome. This is the Ben Shapiro show Sunday. Special just reminder will be doing some bonus questions at the end of the show, with Megan Kelly the only way- you can get access to that part of the conversation is to become a member

daily where it can become a member you'll have access to all the full conversations in every one of our awesome. Guess make thanks. So much for joining the show, hey thanks for having me and good to see you so obviously we're recording this slightly in advance of when it's going to come out, so the state of the race could change, but let's talk, obviously me from the outset about what you see the state of the race, as with regard to President Trump and and Joe Biden, it seems like been all of these dramatic events, but one thing stays fairly consistent and that is the polling data. The polling data seems to consistently suggest a large national lead for Joe Biden and a pretty solid state lead for by in most of the swing states and even the states that shouldn't be swing stating pretty close. How do you gauge this election right now? We're right now trumps? Losing? I think, that's true because Biden ahead in every pole, in virtually every state and has been steadily

but I almost view it as a basketball game bend where I don't really watch a lot of basketball, but Doug puts it on and I keep an eye on it and what I've realized over the years is you only ever need to tune in for the last two minutes of a basketball game? There's no point in watching the whole game all everything that determines what's gonna happen is the last two minutes and I, These margins are probably gonna, tighten significantly before we get to November third and peep still deciding whether there really gonna vote for Biden. I mean disaffected Republicans, they may not like electronic, but it's a big. to vote for a guy who's going to pack, the Supreme Court with a bunch of Democrats and change basically get rid of the head of the third branch of government, and I guess that's so I did. I do people are still wrestling with some of that and that will see a tightening and if it gets tighter. You know as as tight as we saw with trumpet Hilary benn he's back in business, but one caveat too. That is don't forget. the last time was couple days before the election, Jim call me came out with theirs.

Hidden documents on the computer room at has them has them and Anthony Wiener was back in the news because he was harbouring them. That's found them, but above, and that was a huge game changer for try. I mean I remember being on the set was shot John Henry, was coming on after the caliph, I was dying he had been saying, I can quite get him to two seventy and get him to sixty seven Kinkel again to seventy. He came in studio that night and goes he's back he's back so We'll see if there's an October surprise, it really helps him like that. But right now he does he's got some ground to make up for sure well. What was pretty amazing is that if you look at some of the polling data on the underlying issues, Trump really in, like a normal watchin cycle should be walking away. With this thing, there's a gallop whole. They came out this week that fifty six percent, Americans who they are better off now than they were four years ago, which is normally the key when you are having a reelection raises. Are you better off now than you were four years ago right? There's that that point-

showed that forty nine percent of American said that they, like trumps policies, is opposed to forty six percent of Americans who, like Joe Biden, policies, and it is getting just absolutely swap, in the international pulling data and it does. When supports idea that many of us have been saying on the conservative side they offer a long time, which is that the trumpet situation in terms of performance has been quite good. If we could somehow pair away all the aspect, which is what a lot fan seemed like then this would not be close. Raising it actually beginning at this point yeah. I know but you know what it there's no question: Trump. Does a lot of self inflicted wounds? You know like twenty calling calling Campbell Harrison monster? That's not smart! That's not smart Paul who are you going to reach a woman sitting at home in suburban Philadelphia is gonna, be like yeah now voting for him So you know the goal is widened, attended. This point widen and there's no more unnecessary appeals to his base there with him so like just a little bit wider and like just a little bit of self restraint? I don't have any problem while like the helicopter right at the hospital after Eartha, that White House after Kobe, that that's just tramping his dramatic cell, but I will say,

especially having watched this race as more of a consumer over the past two years as opposed to an anchor. He is fighting them. He does have a third enemy in this and he read, did early on and he knew he had two demonize the media make them quote. The enemy, but they actually are his enemy, and you know you know that the press- average of him has been ninety percent negative and continues to be there completely unfair to him. And there are still very fair minded people out. There are consuming the news, not understanding that still trusting what their hearing on CNN and I think it's been a huge problem for Trump. The news is, I think the media will have had a lot to do with it. So let's talk about that, so I want a kind of red frame and in about your career in the media, because getting really been able to experience media from all sides menu. You went from being sort of

local reporter all the way up to the biggest anchor on Fox NEWS, and then you moved over to the socalled mainstream media and you worked in those halls. So I want to talk about how the media runs from all these different perspectives. We'll talk about that in just one second, but first we need to talk about life insurance. It is Halloween this month and policy genius would love to mark the occasion by making something less scary life insurance. Now shopping for life insurance can seem like a daunting task. Policy genius makes it easy. They combine a cutting edge insurance marketplace with help from licensed experts to save you time and money right now. You could save fifty percent or more by using policy genius to compare life insurance when you're shopping for a policy that could last more than a decade. Those savings really start to add up. So here's how it works. First, you head over the policy.

Com. In minutes you can work out how much coverage you need and you can compare, quotes from top insurers to find your best price policy. Genius will compare policies, starting at as little as one dollar a day. You might even be eligible to skip that Inperson medical exam, which is super convenient once you apply policy genius handles, while the paperwork on the red tape, the best part they work for you, not the insurance company. So if you had any speed bumps during the application process, they'll take care of everything. For you there's a reason. Policy genius has a five star rating across over six five hundred reviews on Trustpilot and Google. If you need life insurance head on over to policy genius com right now to get started, remember you could say fifty percent or more comparing what policy genius when it comes to insurance, it's nice and super important to get a right. Let's talk about your media career because a lot of people don't actually know your background. They just know that you're really famous and that you're really popular, but there are no kind of your early beginnings. So how did you get to be Megan Kelly was on Fox NEWS, which is where most people living on the conservative side of the offer saw you well, I used

a lawyer, I mean I'm still a lawyer, but I used to be a practicing attorney and I did that for about nine and a half years and then was miserable just really As I know you know the experience I lasted a little longer than than you did in the game, but know I really loved it. I, like you, had a humble background and for me becoming Megan Kelly Esquire. It was such an ego boost. I was so proud of myself. I thought you gonna. Take me seriously now you know I didn't go to Harvard. I went to Albany, but still I'm just saying like. As a young woman coming up and that my my fellows a doctor a lawyer anything I guess it was like. Ok, this is something so I long do it a lot longer because it meant something to me to me as a human. But over and overand over there's only so many years. You can spend that unhappy in doing what you're doing and it wasn't because of my law firm or my colleagues. It was just the job itself. Is it's pretty soul, crushing and the grind of it was I just I couldn't anymore so

What happened was actually went to visit a friend of mine in Boston, who has zero dough she's a nurse and she was living. Not very off. You know and we have such a good time reminded of my own roots, like I don't need this money, I'm totally happy with my friend in the bar gettin fifty cent beers, like I'm good This is kind of what I need and nothing much more and I came back Chicago and After a series of events I just decided, I was gonna, try to do something else one thing led to another woman in my guitar class, worked at the make you which is the Chicago? Oh no for NBC. She offered to help me make a resume tape. I did it. I a bunch of directors. I wind up walking the tape in to the office to bill, Lord down in Washington, because my husband, I I my first husband, had moved to Baltimore at that point and the port Sucker put me on tv, and I had I part time, while practicing law for about a year, and then I gave my tape to hum Human Fox and they hired me in the bureau

and so what was it like? Working as as rapporteur as sue working, a sort of the anchor because he again fortunately a bunch of these different roles. I loved it ass. They like that with some of my most fun times that in in journalism it was great when I first got hired. I thought I was gonna be more of a legal, corresponding and maybe commentator, and I was getting ready to go and I was gonna work just Fridays just to begin so practising law. And I said to Bill Lord, because though the first day was day when Hurricane, Isabel or Cams Isabel was coming through, I was like you don't need me right right. That has nothing to do with my skills and He was like, if you don't, have a raincoat arranged liquor in rainbow. You better get em getting here like, oh god, soil oh in that an Albanian put me on the air that night, but I went and I sat in the control room Tom had ever been in the control room, which was so chaotic and The news that night, like that, you got reporters all over in their gettin blown around by the hurricane. Like wins, and I will now

forget about it up for your audience, but there was this one guy they were trying to get him on. His name was Eric Hong he's a reporter, and They couldn't get a modern coming to you come to you and then somebody other feed came in and they couldn't get him on and AP yelled at him. I'm not getting on double jail, I ask: do they have to work on its way crazy environment, and here and that really was inappropriate, introduction the news which is its, ugly behind the scenes and it's not highbrow in any way and it was a good introduction- because I'll tell you this, then when I first started Fox, I was frustrated because There's no achieving perfection in the news. It's just you can't! have enough time, you don't have enough staff and it's not the way news works, but in a law you can come near perfection in your brief in your argument In your presentation, everyone looks good all the time and I was frustrated

and I remember talking to him, you know, like you know it's it's hard, because I am used to sort of the American Airlines. First class cloth napkin real Silverware service to my audience to my clients. And she goes yeah we're Southwest airlines She was right, it is just you, gotta get you gotta get a little grittier if you're gonna go into news and especially cable news, and as turns out that wound up. Suiting me just fine, we started off you're, doing the sort of objective new stuff and then obviously moved into Kelly File, in which case your perspective is allowed to come out a little bit more so at what is the difference between? Those two things, because we see now this complete merger of the two. Obviously could CNN where they promote Chris Cuomo as an object. News anchor or John Lemon as an objective news anchor, but you it pretty start division in your own career, from objective news report or to Megan Kelly file, where your perspective was incredibly clear and your were pretty open about it. What was the difference between those two roles?

I mean. I think that you can you can maintain your journalists to credit by being open and honest about what you're opining on and when its opinion and what you won't opine on. You know I don't stand being callers a credible news anchor and going therein openly ripping on President tromp in everything he does every night and calling him a bad man and evil and racist like that's, not reporting. That's that's pure opinion. and I feel felt you go there and you. You can no longer call yourself a straight news reporter, however, was never hesitant to call somebody who is driving two hundred miles an hour down the highway, while one is pushing her baby and baby stroller ninny it, and I think that sort of is what distinguish me from some other people on the air. I would take more editorial risks like that on what I consider common sense issues. That weren't, incredibly divisive and what, My main commitment was was to the facts and when people veered offline when it came to the facts, I owe you

hit them in the head. It was like get back, stay right, stay in the right lane and that's how this discussion is gonna go, and so I think I mean I'm seeing it now with a black lives matter. Narrative like if you just stick with the facts like what are the numbers only comes to police shootings, what what racial divisions? What is that, where the crime statistics? freak out. They just want you to say what they want you to say, but, as you know, facts don't care about your feelings. Somebody really smart boy says and I'm in that lay like I don't care if you don't like it. These are the facts and we can have a reasonable arguments that we stick to that. So I think it sort of stuck out a bit as like she's different and she saying she's defending the police. It's like well, if the facts are defensive them then. Yes, I guess so. I am defending the facts. Anyway. That sort of how when- and I always try to hold onto my objectivity like even when tromp was coming up- and he was very controversial. A lot of Republicans didn't like him. I was never out there night after night being like he's terrible. How could the Republicans do this? I would just report on him fairly. Then I defend

him on a lot of the bs being thrown at him and when he did something really crazy, like saying judge I couldn't decide his trunk university case because he was have hispanic heritage. I hit him. You know like as a lawyer, It was felt comfortable, giving my opinion so anyway, it's it's a bit of a hybrid approach, but I wouldn't submit it is. It looks nothing like what we're seeing now in the media, with people like Don Lemon, whose just a joke and christian mama, whose much more worried about his muscles than he is about the facts. I just can't CNN anymore, and I'm angry about it because I used to like CNN, but those days are gone. So, let's talk about your career Fox NEWS, obviously even volume pretty much every high profile. new story for the last ten years and and that really began with me now in retrospect, Roger Ales,

fiercely was a genius at what he did and Fox NEWS, but also happen to be. It turns out like a really terrible person. So what exactly was your relationship with Roger Ales in and what was your perspective on? How he and Fox NEWS. Can I start with this. I want to start with this because was Roger a table person. He was a flawed man who was a deeply flawed man. He was also in some ways- a great man. and I remember talking a friend of mine who, in PR she's a Democrat, I remember saying in a what should I say when people ask me whether he was awful or raise that I have really feelings about it, and she said you just say was terrible. That's it to say was terrible an eye the is I it's more nuanced than that? You know I can't speak All these guys have gone down its. I think it's really hard to see how hard we Wednesday and could be a great guy, but in Roger case. I spent enough time with him that,

I know how magnanimous he was how what good care he took of so many employees or too strong here he was how clever he was, what a patriot he was and what she loved the armed forces and did so much for them. I just it's hard to completely right him off. As all all because of this other side, even though the other side is indefensible. So ages start with that when, when he first Hired- it was we got along well, I knew right from the start. He was sort of body and, frankly so lie. So I that I, as you know, I don't speak the queen's English and I'm totally find with twelve year old boy, humor and I just as tough to offend me so we with our own grave. I kind of like that about him, as I would later find much better than the alternative of like that. The broadcasts world of like everyone, but us is awful and then he started, sort of taking me up into his office. In the conversations

New York s ability to our sessions. We go in there and talk to him and anyone always locked the door which, as we know it, you know, I boss likened door when we go in there and it is just sort of more from like body talk to directly sexual talk, directed at you and As a woman you're sitting there like like, I, I don't want this like. I can see what is doing and year like. I dont want this because on making it on making. My bones here, like I am reporting well and breaking news is right during the Duke lacrosse scandal that I covering four fox, and I was breaking a lot of stories on that and you can What what you're thinking in your head is? I'm gonna have to reject him at some point and then my careers derailed, like it's over no man. One to be rejected by a woman, and no man that is rejected by woman then has good feelings about her. After the fact, these are facts of human nature,

and so, when you suddenly realised the relationship is morphed for him into a different lane in your sword, his lane, you're scared. You now you you know what's coming, I really want to do- is shrink down Dounia smallest self and hope he stops noticing you, which is directly the Is that what you're, hoping in and professionally ready warm notice you so very complicated? an eye for the longest time. Just pretended I wasn't hearing when I was hearing left off, Take got to the point where I could no longer pretend, because he grabbed me and try to make me three times in his office and I basically ran out the door. So that's tough new nor long story short then, after that I just ignored him. I did report this to Proviso Fox NEWS who gave me the advice of just ignore him he's going to a rough time in his marriage. He'll be fine and I was we have have that advice and I like ok, he took a shot. Men do that and I was kind of animal and then, when the whole Gretchen Karlsson thing came up, and I have this love, lost between me and Gretchen, I'm a fan of hers and I

a fan of mine, but the question is being put to people directly with the cape: and every boot is rushing to the camera. Saying he's not capable, but no way, it's not possible, not this man and I was like about that. I feel uncomfortable and then I was told by somebody close to Roger on his team had managed to limit the investigation into him too, just as immediate small circle of people and that are hurt. Her immediate regressions, immediate small circle of people on her show, which would not include any talent which would include, sort of any of the more prominent females at the company That was when I knew I had to come forward like I didn't know what he was, but I knew they had to take a real look at it. So they need a real investigation and that's that's what they wound up doing so he fell, He died not long after that and I cried when he died, and I I talked to ten who in the whole thing with me with your suit shoulder to shoulder on all of it. She had a story with him and

stay. I feel sad about. I feel sad about what's going on Fox because they think it's a lot different than it used to be. When he was at the helm, and so I think we really lost something- we lost him when he died in when he left Fox, but it was because of Roger that's. What lose sight of who get mad at me. I get out of the women who come forward. He he cost himself and the rest of us his leadership so anyway, it's still a sad subject for me and you know one, not it's not black and white does go to media bias in a different way, which is, of course, that a highly within goes ahead and makes an entire movie based on this, in which your portrayed by Charlie's thereon. They never even bother to call you up and ask for any of your input on the script to their telling largely your story without ever having asked you a single question. I want to your thoughts on that, while they clearly stole my book. when I saw them, we re as I got with somebody been reading. My is settle for more it still available. Online hands as I well that's enough,

like I'd, nobody offered me a cheque for- which I wouldn't have taken actually did get a purchase, offer for the Balkans, said now, but it wasn't from them. So I don't know I had mixed feelings about the movie which had no involvement with, but I thought it's good to shine a light on sexual harassment. Cuz there's still a lot of young women out there who have no clue how to deal with it when it happens to them, and I I like that piece of it is like here's, a here's. What happened here? Take from it what you will but I knew they were going Fox NEWS, as you know, just some parody of itself, and that were rip on people. I logged in ways that we're unfair, and indeed they did brine, kill me in particular on the chin in a way that was really unfair, really unfair. They don't care they just and they made Roger they. They try to get some of his, but they really made him look like a monster, and I want to abandon. It was really just it was painful for me, for so many reasons, the ones I have outlined, and also because I lost a lot of friends of foxes.

What about other Roger Loyalists in the building? Who just couldn't forgive me and it still makes me upset this David. They just don't understand. So you know you move on, but the media. Of course they love to take down Roger Ailes and they played up that story way more than some of the other stories of Democrats falling and there's no accident, there's no there's a reason that they were. They were all these bills. About Roger ales re like there was the show Taiwan, and then there was the bombshell why there was some other third one me wives, one little film about Harvey that got no numbers that They quietly released late. He was a serial rapist, so you tell me what one is been and then meanwhile they then somehow continue to portray. You is, villainous Numb, no matter what the situation is. So, let's talk about sort of what happened Fox NEWS that prompted your moved. It NBC so you're you're on factors. That is enough.

s ratings. I remember because you are kind enough to have me on your show at the time you always read it for me. I appreciate that. Thank you. I appreciate it well, it was your show and then the twenty sixteen cycle comes about, and the whole trumpian split happens in which everybody is divvied into your either pro trump or your anti trump there is no middle and in which Trump took personal personal to to you asking him difficult, specifically specifically about his treatment of women, want to ask about that in just one second, but first, let's talk about something. Really, important you can do for yourself or your family. I'm talking about preserving those family memories mean out in the garage right now you got old film real you got Vhs tapes even have a vcr anymore. Of course you don't you have a bunch of old pictures,

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the only get it arose, your Donovan such and then he has very angry at you and you are one of the first into the junk tank when it comes to. If Donald Trump, his angry, you then all of his supporters, so angry you- and this turns into very polarized environment for you at box. I wanted to talk about that all about, while I was a hard time and in the moment. I wasn't sure if he was really angry or if he was just using me as just another story lying which Trump likes to create, and now I think was genuinely angry. In response to that question, I don't actually even think think it had so much to do with the question itself as he felt betrayed by me. He thought that I was at Fox. I liked him, which I did like, You know I like them. I like Ben Carson too, but I basically accused him of being an idiot in my question him that night behaving complaint right. The way the way trunk did that is our brain bag is a political debate for the presidency, like you're gonna, give your fastball and for the record how it very well like his answer, was just fine. Like I say what I say: people are sick of this pc nonsense and we

fine, you don't like it too bad great. That's quit vintage trump, so if he hadn't chosen to make a thing out of it, it would have become a thing, but it was, very hard because you could feel the fracturing of the audience is sort of. At that point. The moors frumpy and wing, which at that point was more of the bright Bart wing and then the more national review type Republicans who are like more old school republicans who didn't may well, Mitt Romney types or really just sort of mainstream, be a Mitt Romney thing and ROD was really desperate to keep those two factions together as our audience and did not want this war, which is our happening wasn't just because of me. It was already happening in the Republican Party. I just I was a piece of it because of Trump and I fell like people were misunderstanding, I wanted people to go back and look at the debate in in whole and see the questions that we, asked of all of them right. They were all really hard and they were great and the Republicans did great that night. They do you think the highs really debate ever at that point.

Anyway. There was no standing him down, so I just decided to ignore it and ignore it as much as I could, but it just blew up my life and I was like it wasn't like mean tweets, which are like all: that's not nice. It was security threats like people showing up my house in the middle of the night and scary stuff. You know like getting my face when I'm on the street, with MIKE as you know like when some strange man comes in approaches, even yells, it you on the streets of New York and threatening manner with their children. You like. as it was a woman, especially your kind of like I don't know where where's is going, and what am I gonna do this escalates and you never want to do anybody a videotape right, you don't have a fight. You certainly want to have ethical fight, but there's a lot of that- and I I don't understand it was like- was a tough question. So anyway, I think Tromp saw Me and that storyline as a way of telegraphing to his base

there was no one. He wouldn't stand up to establishment media Fox Anchor like box. He wasn't. hold the Fox Roger rails, not behold him, and I think that's why trumps pull numbers went up after that whole thing. It wasn't like a verdict, necessarily on or fox or the question. It was a verdict on. I like this guy who doesn't give a damn about what people say about him. He's gonna buck convention he's to re. everything and I will that's what we need. We need the guy in that package to go to Washington and wreck a system that isn't working for us and land. I will say for the record as me: things got a line, and you know people right table things about me and so on, my ratings never went down. In fact, they only went up. I've been never suffered. Yeah me. I think that that is one of the great lies there. There too great lies, I think about me. They take on Trump, particularly The right wing media during twenty succeed. One was that if you went and hide from you did so specifically for the ratings, which was crazy.

and the other lie was that if you was that, if you went and had from lose your entire base. These these two eyes were being maintained at the exact same time. What was that you were doing it for the ratings and the other was it would kill you ratings if you're a critical of trump, and it turns out that people can hold more than one thought in their head at the exact same time, moving on from kind of Are you word factor so that decide you're you're, basically ready to move on what were the factors that one into this making, because at the time you were the highest rated show on Fox news. You were the biggest Ankara on on the right, and now you decided to me on and go not only to network news whenever an embassy, but also to to do Ting completely different right. Do something much softer sort of return to your journal. roots, a little bit. What what prompted that decision Well, I mean not, unlike when I left the law I was. I went had first in the brick wall of unhappiness, and I know people loved the Kelly File and I actually love the Kelly file to I miss it. I wish I could. I wish I could watch a show.

that now as a new consumer, but I wasn't happy at all in my personal life, in the life of a cable news anger, especially primetime news anchor, is not pleasant. It's not good I don't know a lot of really joyful. Cable news programme hosts it's it's it's like working in the Colosseum for a living Every day is another fight, another attack, another person calling you something awful and and having to have big meetings about, and what are we gonna do, and you know this is and who you are, and you know your based understands your base audience and understands it's, not you, but then, if I WAR, and then your kids are seeing this stuff, and it's like, oh my god, so you got in. excuse me, but you also do have to devote a lot of time to controversy and then now. It is to the point we are getting attacked by all the other news anchors too, and then, after the Roger thing, I was getting attacked by some internally also is fighting fighting fighting, nonstop and, in the meantime, my home life and, like you, have a very tight family. I have. I wanted

divorce. My first husband back in two thousand section I met, met married Doug. has been now we have great marriage and we ve worked really hard for it and I am proud of it and we have three great kids and I wasn't seeing any of them I basically wasn't mothering my own children and you can say its access. I care what anybody says it it wasn't. I wasn't happy, I wanted to my own kids and I know this is sexist to say that I think women have a habit, special desire to be with their children, maybe more so than a lot of men. That's That happens to be my belief, for me. It was insurmountable. I was not to be sort of the Wall Street dad who went to work at six, a m and came home at eleven p M and never size children. During the day I couldn't do it. His were little then, when I left the Kelly file, there were three five. seven there were babes, you know not I I could still be there. I hadn't miss them, thing. So it's like. On the one hand, my professional life is really unhappy and I'm not enjoying it,

on another hand, my home life, which I really want to be at, is not available to me. You know it's not there so, I ask myself: what do I want to do? What I want to do in fact offer me a bunch of money to stay, and I just thought there's not there's not enough enough money that I don't Live like this, I don't care, I could go back and the fifty cent beers, like my nurse friend in Boston, I don't care No, I didn't have to do that because embassy may mean ice offer, but the reason shows them- and this is where I went wrong- was like you can do a morning show you can be home by noon to be with your kids and it will still use you on the big nice electronized science like is still so to do my politics coverage when I want my guy. That's a decent compromise sends look the landscape in Baghdad and like I'm, not gonna, go to CNN and others are going to MSNBC raised closer to those you're out so kind of the three main networks for something more reasonable

there's really not going out a lot going out at CBS Abc did offer me a role, but I didn't find it that attractive and then there was NBC. That said, here's the thing you can do something that's maybe more uplifting to the world and then go home, be with your kids. So I'm like okay, I'm gonna, try it I'll, try something new I'll exercise, a new muscle, and it would the more stressful year and a half of my life and you know I was I'll tell you so a lot of my fans have been like the ending it wasn't fair, but I say death. I will say again that what when you're dying death by a thousand cuts, sometimes the big machete is a mercy you now as it was for me yeah, I mean it from the outside and as somebody with whom I can serve as friends, watching how NBC News set you up to to fail I mean that they say you up from the very outset almost to be there at the very first show that you did You did this pretty hard hitting interview with Alex Jones and it was clear from all of the promotional materials you're, not gonna, be soft peddling Alex drones, and then

media decided that in fact, you're becoming propagandist on behalf of Alex and in this is like the very first episode and Alex John, a pretty important figure at the time, because trumpet and talking with him and even doing his show this sort of stuff in the media sector. As here's Megan Kelly, whose now promoting a crazed, conspiracy, The arrest and NBC didn't really defend you in any way. They short of left you out there to hang on to me outside. Look like okay, here's an early indicator of how this thing is going to go all the conservative conceive notions about what exactly it's like in the world of mainstream media are correct, but Alice Jones things was was nuts because it was suddenly a new rule was imposed where we only get to interview the good guys. That's it Journalist can interiew. Meanwhile, I'm like Diane Sawyer interviewed Jeffrey Dahmer, and there wasn't this guy as far as I know, Alex Joan. Has it hasn't even anybody? Okay, so spare me so and did an in depth invest interview with Alex Jones right after the new town massacre was

after he was saying all this crazy stuff ain't even touch on most of it that they gave me a total pass them. Times interviewed Alex Jones. I can go on nothing and bow but Megan. Wants to do it and it's like the nap No inquirer had a cover. With me on it at the time that, with a caption most hated mom in America, oh my god and my neighbor down it. We have a house of the Jersey Shore, my neighbor, she ran in there. Her name is Kitty and she took all the most The UN's down issues like how dare you shops in here children should be getting all the magazines and throwing her car, so it was other worldly, because I was like and I mean you can go down the less Charles man in all these murderers who have been interviewed on television, but somehow Alex Jones was a bridge too far, and I two hundred percent stand by that interview. They pointed to the fact that some of the new town families didn't want it to happen, and that I understand, but the truth of that is sick.

The new town, families objected and nineteen or either very proud, or at a minimum neutral so, and I didn't cover. You know when you can't you can't do this. average that way, based on an who might get upset. You have to do that and he wasn't the news and trumpet circulating publicly Alex Joneses, relations stuff from info wars, and it was high time somebody took a hard look at him and I think it's pretty quickly after that is from actually stop trafficking as much within for water. So obviously it had it had some impact. so what was the relationship with the NBC executives? Because it really did feel like they were hanging you out to dry, like they put you out there and then within five minutes of putting you out there. It felt like they just completely disappeared. Normally a network defends its own anchors. Normally network will actually protect its own anchors and issues with Ankara's war was incredibly controversial. Things mean Fox NEWS routinely, will defend Tucker if Tucker says something: that's controversial acc

and continues to defend its anchors, but NBC, really just what it felt like. They cut you off at the knees looking at it from the outside alone, but it This way there are very few network executives as steely spined as Laughlin Murdoch Roy derails MRS Anna Scott J, while as very few precious view, and you know why how about Roger earlier. You know when I was a fox. He would. A hundred percent have your back if any controversy came your way. The first thing he would do is go run in front of a bullet and take it for you and if I may put it this way, not every night, network executive is as brave or a strong or as art. Is that and that's all I'm going to say so looking that sort of your tenure in the mornings in NBC, the one as well early in terms of everybody looking at the ratings and saying the ratings were not good and of course they were saying that from like the very beginning, he normally when you transition for an anchor to another. There, of course, is to sort of lead time before you can start to build.

waiting so how much what happened at NBC do, you think was about the ratings and and how much do you think it was about politics well I really hope that we are building in their ratings and we are numbers we're going up and are advertising revenue is going way up like we were making more money on that show them. The show had been making prior, so the advertisers loved it and we did needed some time and I talked to Hoddan in coffee, we about their show and it was a bomb in the ratings the first couple years, a bomb, but they stay out of it even start, actually doing positive ratings until five years into the gig. So especially morning, television. It takes some time and we were on a good trajectory, but of course we did hadn't gotten it done in the short time that I was on the air there. I do think you know I'll say this. I was are defending Brett Kavanaugh a lot on NBC. I was and remain horrified by what happened to him. I thought it was grossly unfair gave Christine Blasi Ford a fair hearing both on the air and in my own mind I ll, into her. I thought it was worthwhile hearing.

she had to say, I have no problem with like sizing her up every, who came after that was a joke everybody and en bloc, not only, we all go to Julie, Swetnick, the one who made the ridiculous gang rape stuff with through Michael Avenatti, which is in force, but when, Let me see if people forget this one, they went to air with a report that Breck having us only girlfriend that that the girlfriends mother remembered her daughter telling her that break Havana had shut. turn into a brick wall back we're dating several years ago, and they they put. It was anonymously source that they were to sing. Somebody has told us this is the mothers saying this: they put them the air now keep mind. This is network that would ot put on the Harvey Weinstein allegations, even though they had rose Mcgowan. Another women on the record saying he was a predator right, we're when I was on the record saying he raped me, we will have our facts that we can't go

now you got like an honest person saying the mother of somebody said she's a woman once said it like a triple years, or so they put on there. Somebody else lined up tracking down the actual girlfriend who is like one hundred percent None of them ever happen, he's an amazing guy, that's the kind of it was going on about bread and I was there trying to read my loyally self and look at the facts. I'll just say this. It was like the old sesame streets on like one of these. Things is not like the others, and I think I felt that while I was there, So the second ask about the controversy, of course, that that was really the excuse for them

to get rid of you. It was pretty obvious what was going on right there. I'm gonna ask you about that in just one. Second: first, let's talk about protecting your online data. Now, when you use the bathroom, you always close the door behind you right, I mean you, don't want randoms. Looking at you, that'd be weird and strange. So why would you let people look in at your internet activity using the internet with that Express VPN? It's like going to the bathroom and not closing the door. Did you know your ISP Comcast Verizon and they know every single website you visit and what's worse, they can sell this information to add companies and tech giants? Who will use your date it to target you express VPN? It puts a stop to all of this. It creates a secure encrypted tunnel between your device and the internet, so your online activity can't be seen by anybody. I use express VPN on all my devices. It works on everything, phones, laptops, even routers,

so if somebody sharing your wifi, they can be protected, even if they don't personally have expressed the opinion. The best part is using Express BP and it's easy is closing the bathroom door fire up. The up. Click on button now you're protected expressly pianist the world's number one really VP by Cnet Wire. The virgin countless other, so if you're like me, and you believe that your online activities, your business, secure yourself today by visiting, Express BP and dot com, slash men use my exclusive link ex p r as deputy coms lifespan in an extra three months for free, as expressly peons outcomes, lush bent. So obviously all of this common aids in one of the great foe, controversies of all time in which you are talking about the latest black face controversy in which someone is caught years ago wearing black face. I can remember what the context wasn't very well, but you make the absolutely in arguable claim that it is different redress, does Michael Jackson for Halloween than it is to dress up in nineteen twenty style black face in order to mock black people This results in NBC News, basically using it as an excuse to get rid of you

so non controversial, but I've point blank asked basically every Democrat I can find about this, ranging from one Williams due to members general public and there are like yeah. I mean that is perfectly obviously true, because anyone who has a sentient capacity and owners of prefrontal cortex understands there's a difference between I dressed up A person of color whom I admire and I'm dressing up as a person of color to mock people of color, there's a difference in Ralph northern dressing. Up as Michael in and between Ralph Northern dressing up as a stereotypical, black person, Andorra, KKK member, so that like beat. These are very obviously, if you make this perfectly obvious point up also made by joy. Behar harm noticed still work for network news and in Europe basically tossed out the window foreheads, while they bring, that your racist, I mean what was all of that. I mean you, you have a basically right. I was I was on what happened in terms of my presentation. I, what happened was a real housewife, Lou endless apps was in the news for she dressed like Diana Ross and she she tinted risk

She actually just put on extra self Tanner so she did look darker than she normally does and she had she look like they Ross with a wig and dress and they were killing. Keep in mind by the way this is, it doesn't show produced by Bravo which is owned by NBC, Universal and, and it was pretty shaped and they put on their. They put her on the air with the minutes the tinted skin so that that was their decision. She got up, go back, and I wanted to talk about it because we were talking about all the crackdowns on Halloween costumes. We started that day with, discussion about how, over UK they sent. some university, a ban on like any cost. That that would look like a cowboy, because didn't want you to offend american Calaboose in Response which every american cowboy was like STFU. We don't need your help, please right and when they ask suggested to the two people that you know you might consider dressing

something uncontroversial, perhaps as a letter or a number. That's where we ve gotten on hollowing, and I talking about how like the standards for what's offensive change, and not everybody understands when their when their walk into something that they suddenly there doing something. That's awful and I pointed to Lou endless actual, like this woman, she wore this you're trying to honour Diana Ross and got blown up, and I said thirty years ago, when I was a kid. The point I was trying to make was you do that unlike the wasn't gonna blow back, and something that became controversial, and then I said you know when you look at when I look at her, I, like. Oh, I see a woman who's trying to look just like Diane Ross, loves Diana and she's, trying to honor her. So I didn't really say this is fine. I said this is what I see tell me. If I'm wrong, that's it. That is all that happened that day and then, when I looked, I looked in the newspaper headlines, it was basically like Megan Kelly calls for

turned to minstrel, show black face and did the show in a KKK hat was like oh, but by that point. I was used to being misrepresented by the press. You. It was like everything We had said about me over the past year was untrue and I tried it. Take the high road and not respond, and that was also what I felt tat I needed to do in that latest incident I went back on the air the next day. After being told by everybody there that I was hideous and then I said something terrible, and I think is right, which is when you think you ve genuinely offended a bunch of people. You should say you're, sorry, and so I did. and then I had a panel on to talk about black, face the history of black, face and sort of get to the question I was asking, which is: how do we go from a to b right and like? Why is it? People are associating skin, tending in a modern day, costume meant to honor. With this really controversial practice years ago,

and I had a couple of black guests to explain that and their their opinion on it and have a or an OU have persuaded people. But it was an interesting discussion and- and then I was, back on the air again after that show. So I think for me, was straining naturally be able to talk about it. I didn't I didn't know, I didn't think it would do me any good to come out and try to defend myself by saying that when I did know that NBC had put several. on the air with people wearing black face like I knew Jimmy Fallon had done it and a couple of people there had done it and, of course, their been anchors wearing white face like lesser hole to win a brute raspberries Jenner. and also as the woman from what was illegal american idol. One of those shows a Susan Boil who Susan Boil but like, I don't want to start like firing at other anchors or other personnel like this. That's not the answer here, and what I concluded was the people who are offended? You know by this

chosen to believe I'm a racist because it remarks that have been totally misrepresented or even if they think my actual remarks, women were racist, they're, not persuadable. These are these are People who are open minded to me. So what's the point just screaming into the void and the people who don't see any big deal of it. Don't don't need to be convinced, they know who I am and am I audience both at NBC and at Fox. They know who I am. They understood like this is something that was being used was was being used against me by people who couldn't stand me. I will be the left who decided to generate this huge campaign which might have otherwise just been a twitter campaign had not had buying else air in certain circles of power? But when all is said and done, then I was okay because I walked away. I did fine and I was free. You know I was free I I've never been through an experience like I was, I went through

I mean the whole year. Not just that end, and I was relieved should just be out. You be back at my home, which is safe with my husband and my kids and just take a breath to try to regroup, because it was if such a shocking jarring upsetting turn of events in my life, and I It took a while to sort of heal. From that. To be honest with you, I'm not going to try to pretend I'm made of steel. It was. It was hard. I shed a lot of tears, but I got through it and I like anything you both of these things and hopefully, if you're smart, you dont get better and you get better get smarter And I think, maybe one of the reasons I went through that or at least to take away from it is I get the whole cancelled, thing in a way I otherwise wouldn't have. I was never in favor of it, but I worry because obviously I'm in Ashley secure on fine, financially and I'm I'm a public figures. I landed on my feet and I have my own company now, that's good, but what happens when this happens to a civilian?

as somebody who doesn't have that kind of financial security doesn't have that kind of platform, shall name built up already. I feel like I need to help them. I feel a rest on its ability to calm, bs, I'm what's happening to people in our country. Right now, I am worried about our country, I'm worried about kids who get this the teenagers who get maligned as awful bigots, racist, xenophobic transposed just for having an opinion, that may not go with the main stream now. How the media shames people out of an honestly Helder, religiously, held opinion and controversial issues. It's gonna get worse. Unless people speak up So we have to find a way we have to find a way of allowing that to happen without people getting fired all the time and I don't know exactly what the answer is. I know that, like Douglas Murray, he says you know when your company comes to you and says you ve got to take care.

Race, theory training. You have to look at them and say I refuse to allow you to re racial eyes me my company or my country. I refuse it takes a lot of guts, that's tough, but we got it get out, and so that's one of the reasons why I came back and I'm doing podcast night. I have my say you know I have a platform where I can make points I will say that is in a certain sort of perverse showed in freedom. it's entertaining to watch the left eat it on on some of this stuff. My favorite story around that actually surrounds that incident with you, in which a Washington Post, employee, dressed up as you to try and mock you as racist, and then they were maligned by the other people at the party as racist, and there is a full Washington Post investigation with heroic pictures The people complained about it. News, big beautiful photos is like, while, ok We want to take. This is logical, extreme, my guess where I guess we're going to get there.

you know, I I that's so funny, because it's like okay, she wants to go as me, she's trying to make a point about black face. She wants to go as me. I've never worn black face. Unlike half of Hollywood and NBC, but like I I wouldn't she goes just intruder. Why? Why wouldn't she goes Jimmy came out? Why wouldn't she go is like Joy Bay, how I wish you good, like those people, actually work so she's a little off the mark to start with, but man she pay right, no idea, even change issues, issues trying to make a she's trying Mega Far West Wing point that was false about you and got up and get eaten by the machine just just as much so. I thought that there was a beautifully erotic, outcome to denounce particular scenario. When you talk about what's gonna change, it seems to me that, unfortunately, it's gonna have to get worse before it gets better, not because the left is going to stop it just because the the left is they? They found that the best thing that they can do in order to gain power is too wide. A lot and threaten a lot and then corporations particularly are so vulnerable to the sort of stuff mean just this week, Yelp decided that they were going to church.

their policy, and so now, if there is a complaint about a restaurant that is reviewed by europe- and somebody said, erases thing happen. Yelp will issue a warning on their website. Warning everybody like an empty and abuse note on their website without any evidentiary basis. That this place has been reported for racist dimity, and then they have a higher level. Where a media outlets reports, the story, then they call it now is something like a confirmed incidents, of racism, even if it's just the ala reporting the allegation, so we now have major american companies who have the lives of Other companies in their hands basically being willing to throw out any allegation whatsoever by any random. I mean I think that until the right gets his, why needs the left, or at least attempts to you, its market market power in the same way left, which is, is I don't actually bound Then I think this guy continue because corporations have an absolute interest in Cato. to the windiest among us, and we

have to somehow get through this because we believe in the first amendment in this country, and we believe in in saying how we feel and having a diversity of opinion and when you get to tough issues being able to discuss them. That's an american principle, never before Then we have a new way of thinking and you need to shut up. You need not speak about it at all. You just accept my new way of thinking or you're awful period and cancelled and maybe fired. How insane is that in a week need more corporations with a backbone, like I loved it, when the Wall Street Journal stood up to its employees, who were like some fit about. I don't may maybe like a Heather Mcdonald, Op Ed or some op ed in in their newspaper. It's factual and we should have done this and then like eighty employees, who were like like no and the journals like understand. And you're said so anyway. That's employers need to do like You understand, you're in the business of news of journalism, where we have to cover facts, and when we do opinions we have for both sides and it may have sent you

hiring for my company now banks, I just launching new company. I, like and of the young people saying look: let's get this straight up front. If you are not in favour, The full discussion like on censored discussion of some of those controls, controversy, Things happening the country right now. You shouldn't work here, if you're somebody who needs five compliments before I have to tell you what you did wrong. You shouldn't work here, Mimi. To hold your hand, when I tell you have to work on a Saturday, you shouldn't work here. You can reach. and you can be intellectually stimulated. You're gonna have fun, you learn, you gonna grow stronger, but it's not gonna, be easy right work where's, I think, need to say that to their employees as opposed to like your special you'll never be hurt you Things will never be hurt and you just go to your safe space. If anybody says anything that doesn't completely comply with the way you want it to be said, it's like I don't want to live in this world and I want my kids to have to live in this world so you're right. We have to stand up and fight because it used to just be academia, and it crept into Hollywood

It took over news, and now it's taken over corporate Amerika dimension, half of sports and, if it, if its, even just the right. I know a lot of liberals who are totally against this nonsense. look at the Harbours letter, but beyond that, just like center left or just quote, unquote, regular progressives. They don't like this nonsense either. It's this far left contingent. That has the loudest voice in the room and people are low. turning to them, because if you're the owner corporation somebody's running in their saying racist, racist, racist, racist and I'm hurt, and this is I feel unsafe and you me and safe. If you don't do it, I'm asking you to do there, like, oh, my God, people didn't used to drop charge like that unless it was really serious. Now it's morphed over into. Whatever you you coming to work with a black hat instead of the White House and somehow, like you, you ve, hurt somebody had made him feel unsafe Other things on that front is I'm really interested to watch what happens with Joe Rogan Overt Spotify,

because you are using the revolt of some of the spot if I employed against him and he's basically like here too bad pound sand and so far spot of ice had his back. So I really hope they stay steely spined and continue to have his back and set a lesson for other companies. You're going to be the business, especially of news and conversation yet be more open minded and even any other corporation needs to stand up for what American principles are, but this is not EAST Germany. So, let's talk about, you know what it's like be a woman in a position of high responsibility and high power. visibility. What do you think are sort of the special challenges women face and and when do you think that the allegations of sexism in the end, the obstacles faced by women go too far If I can sum up all the challenges women face and a couple of sentences, but there's no question: there are some and that's sort of what I'm seeing with the racial discussion we're having now, there's no question: there are still racists here in the United States, but I don't believe- is a racist country, and

I feel the same about sexism, there's no question that there are sexist here, United States, but we're not a sexist country at all, so you have to deal with it on a case by case basis but I would say, in general, you know men control, most halls of power, most of the corporations they so control most political bodies, and that does posts and challenges for women that we have to figure out how to handle. The vice presidential debate was interesting because I do think- and the studies do show that women get interrupted more than men like the the boardroom, the the men it women more than they'll a man speaking and I've actually in the past venom gasket and remain one of that. The tactics used, which is just hand up, I'm speaking, and it does make people stop talking, Sup interrupting you, but she used it and it was obviously a tactic and she used it in a way when it's a debate the guy's allowed to jump in the tail end of your thought. That's what a debate is it's not like here in front of a company saying this is how gonna handle the situation and all these guys are trying to jump in. That's when you're, like YO, not done she's in a debate like they overcorrected for what,

One of the first presidential debate like I wanted to hear more back and for those two anti septic and look at no. You should have the doom minutes and I usually do minutely bit. They didn't. I I alot of thoughts about the debates, but I say this about being a strong women, woman, have to do it. You have to do it unapologetically, and that leads to some consternation and in certain circles, Peter necessarily looking at it as a strong woman whose unapologetic about it in a way that favourable- and I think that's led to some problems in my own life- However, my own approach to all of that has always been to not when who and wine about it, just be better, just keep going just work harder. you know now you would. Oh that's a sexist. You that's a sexist comment like screw you to understand what most women are up against. Why I understand very well in I didn't come from some fancy, powerful family with big connections, I'm self made entirely, and so I do understand, I understand how to get through a sexist encounter how'd. You know sort of

as I said, the other day, woman up. Strongest self and handle handle tough circumstances. I don't believe in the constant resort to victimization. I could stick I don't like identity politics. I dont like how people are making our lady parts what we're all supposed to be about where the people want to make somebody's. to what they're all about it. Just it's completely disrespectful and diminishing. There was one day at the in the Obama years where they invited like female, is to come to the White House. For, like a woman disdain, I can go up I'll, go to the White House when I get invited as a reporter. That's all I want to go I'm getting like. You know, I'm getting to check the Box of being in having the right genitalia sweat gets over. What is I'm good. You call me when you want me for my brain, not for my lady parts

I just think we're getting away from there. Now is just such a rush towards identity, politics and victimization in finding your. Your policy has also been victimized and people think it's empowerment and it's exactly the opposite, its disempowered. So what rather rates for a second, since you mention them incentive. Moderate residential presidential beds, maybe can avail. wait how you think the debate moderators have performed thus far. It seems, like obviously, Criswell, had a tough job. Consider The behaviour during that debate, Susan page, had it. a much easier job, considering that that was one of the more people. As you mentioned, polite Nancy Septic debates, I've ever seen on national television. How do you think the moderators, I think Susan page did fine. You know it was boring. Personally, I'm in favour. Of a spicier debate. That's just my own approach to it, but then it was boring but fair. I didn't think she was unfair. I went back and looked at the whole transcript of every question. She asked and was like it's fine, it's right down the middle. You know her topics,

election, probably leaned more left than if you had a Fox news, anchor doing it, but that's okay, that's whatever people are used to that. It wasn't egregious Chris Wallace. He had a tough time and you know. I don't know if he planned for it. I'm surprised actually, because when we prepared for our debates on Fox, we used to have discussions about, especially with Trump. What, if you won't shut up, What have you tried to run over us? What if he won't stop interrupting like we talked about all that we came up with game plans. so I dont know if he'd do that or if it was just at a level he had never in anticipated I happen. I haven't due to believe in cutting the monks, and I think I wouldn't have been associated with a debate that didn't let as the moderator control, the cameras and the MIKE's, because you and believe how fast they stop talking when you you take back control of the camp. On you and the MIKE's on you when they will stop talking quickly? and you'll have to do it once you know like it like being a parent. You know you gotta, like like show your you. You mean

at one time and then they behave so long. Follow through on your threat, then every time the rest of the debate would have been much better if especially with tromp? If you knew it the camera and loses MIKE He would have been more reasonable and then go from there. Then then it's a judgment call inch cut the guy off at every turn You want to see him going back and forth. That's that's highlight of a debate so I know I love it's for me as frustrates I'd love to get it out. There do myself, but not this go round. Yet what? What do you make of the complaints that we have put out there? That there is too much emphasis on trying to get a quarter court objective journalists the actual debate, questions that frankly, I'd rather see a debate moderated by Sean, Hannity and Rachel motto. Then watch a debate moderated by Susan page. Is you you're going Harshest version of the leg just have Sean question Joe Biden and have Rachel Matthau Question Donald Trump. maybe not weigh more interesting way. More entertaining I'm a guy That is somebody who's in the middle. You know, I don't want that like myself, right out of the running, but

stand the point and I actually think maybe it's solution is to have like a three person panel. You have sort of a straight news: journalists to is objectively straight news- not Don lemon right. Somebody who's actually straight news. There's still, was out there and then pundits from either side but the question is, would you have handy question Biden or would you have them question trump? I think you'd have to have a question Biden right. And then you have Matthau question trump see how they do. I think it'd be interesting. I think it'd be absolute war at the anchor desk, but it'd be in so in just one. Second, I want to ask you about how you balance all this with family. You mentioned family before and being a mom, and I want to hear about your perspective on balancing career and family, because I think one of the great lies of the twentieth century is that everybody can have all and obviously have to find that balance. But if you want to hear Megan Kelly's answers, you have to get

we will remember had on over to daily, where I come join at the top of the page, you can hear the rest of our conversation over there Megan Kelly. It's always great to talk to you and, of course, go. Listen to Megan Kelly, show over a devil. May care media make sure to check it out. Megan thanks. So much for joining us really appreciate it. Thanks Dan lots of love, The Ben Shapiro show Sunday Special is produced by math clover, executive producer, Jeremy boring our technical director is Austin Stevens and our assistant director is a widowski associate producer, Nick Shihan, our guests are booked by Caitlin Maynard editing is by Jim nickel. Audio is mixed by MIKE Corallina, hair and makeup is by Nika Geneva, title graphics by Cynthia Angulo, the bench oh show Sunday Special, is a daily wire production, copyright daily wire, twenty twenty.