There was a greatest blessing just being vulnerable and honest with people about how much I was struggling. It made me realize I hate being vulnerable. I want to be in and do everything myself. It came out of the room that way beguiling on other people, sometimes If you dont give them the gift of being honest about higher struggling than they don't get the gift I think, of helping aid Welcome MRS De Ben Shapiro show Sunday special. I'm excited to welcome. Shannon Bream should be offered the brand new book finding the brighter. We'll get into that book and everything else you need to know about China, Bream and just one second, but first hiring is challenging, which is why, You know we end up with people who have to adjust the light to every single episode, but there's one place you can go for hiring a simple and fast and smart. It's a place where growing businesses connect to qualified candidates that place zip precludes outcome, Slash Ben zipper cooler sends your jobs over one hundred of the webs leading jobbers. They don't just stop there with their powerful matching technology. Zip

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positive minutes. You have a difficult job and covering the news every day you doing it late at night, it's very fraught polluter whole cycles that how do you stay positive all the time? The way seem to you. I try to keep perspective. Sometimes you have to compartmentalize things and we do report on things that are really tough, especially of its interests as situation with the loss of life. It can be natural disasters. A terrorist attack. Whatever it is, you have to do it. You have to do in the moment report these things before me. I tried a separate that and have my real life we have a little bit of perspective on the bigger picture. For me, my faith is at the centre of everything, and that's really my compass and kind of where I have my foundation and several other people think I'm not sure where they put their roots and where they kind of final stability. But that's for me, so one of the big conferences, Grognon sort of journalistic sphere, is the objective journalist versus opinion journalists Divina, I'm very obviously and a journalist? I say what I say what I think it must be difficult for you because you are a fair and balanced, objected journalists. That means you're trying to remove your views. How do you? How do you know

one do that this is a human being a number two. How much do you think it's possible to do that? As a journalist? I think you have to make the effort a hundred percent of it. I'm if you're in as I am in the news division- and we got there- oh sure, reunite woman preparing it. We want to make sure that all sides are presented. Do we have gas that are opposing in views on any particular issue, we're gonna cover? We go through the copy very carefully and say: let's take out any additives that are over the top. It's always good to window. Those out are just let the story speak for itself that the facts speak for themselves. We make sure that we give ways to all sides. It doesn't matter what I agree or disagree with and I feel like I'm doing my job. If, at the end of the day my twitter is split, I have some people on their who say like you're, the worst you aren't attacking our president. Won't you respect him in them. Other side. The very same, so I have people who will say obviously you're taking all of your talking points straight from the White House. The president told you exactly what to say, and I think most people don't know where I'm coming from. Personally, then I've done my job cuz. Of course all of us have.

Opinions as human beings, but I my goal every night and doing the show is that people dont know what my personal opinions are. We just give them. The news: are viewers are smart? They can figure things out for themselves, so we give them the information leave it to the visit frustrating for you. You see a lot of politicians critical in democratic side of the island, having this open debate about whether it inappropriate to do things like appear on Fox NEWS, whether to do these town hall events with the objective side of a fox he's been like right there and then you have Central was with worn who goes on the view and as a Fox news

hate machine, the propaganda machine I'll never appear on there and even their objective hostages providing cover for their non objective house. What do you make a critique of fox? I expect it. I mean it's something that if you worked there for five minutes, you know you're going to have to deal with. I always encourage people, and sometimes I think, I'm gonna convert or to out there who will say. Oh, how do you work? There is such a terrible place, especially as a woman, and you know they go through the whole litany of problems and I say make me deal: will you watch our eleven o clock show or six o clock with bread, we're seventh with Martha any of our shows that are strictly news programmes watch for week or two and then see what you think you don't have to watch the opinion Bay shows which we celebrate. They have their own fan base and they spark really interesting conversations, but for the news division I say watch one of our shows that a straight down the middle and then you tell me what you think and I find that most of our critics have not spend any time doing that. So I think it's fair to ask them to recognise the deference choose. One of those news

programmes, and then you can judge for yourself, and I think if people do that they might be pleasantly surprised. How much does the news division interact with the opinion of vision? You guys talk amongst yourselves. Are you guys, friends? How does that work? We are all friends me, my hallway. I've got Tucker Laura Bread and my hell for all in there and humans on our hallway too, and we I'm will pop in, were all friends, will exchange ideas and talk about things and news of the day. Of course, what're you gonna do wonders who'd you got on tonight that kind of thing, but when it comes to putting our shows together, making editorial decisions are real. No cross over at all any more friendly with each other, but we have completely different production staffs and the way that we tackle our shows, I think, is very different, so given sort of the leaves politically fry Nature of the moment and the very strong opinions the people hold about. President. What do you think is the best way as an objective journalist to cover president trumpets been kind of fascinating from the west. There's been a contention that if you treat anything that is, from with any level of seriousness that you are somehow contributing to his feet. Can narrative or that you are somehow, covering for him on the right there,

this feeling that if you criticise President Trump at all than you are being disloyal or that your or that you are treating him as something terrible, what what is the best way it's got a present from an how exactly do separate the narrative from the from the news when you do this, I think that we stick to the facts. I think that the most important thing and if he has a good day, he makes a good decision, something's good with the economy. May we just put it down the middle and some people will see. Even that is taking a side they, as you said there, some people say you shouldn't even treat him as legitimate president. If you cover him in that way in some way you are legitimizing something that they feel is illegitimate, but I think you know he tweets. We dont cover every single tree but if their newsworthy we do, and sometimes he makes policy statements by tweet on we try to window through those, but it can if its factual and formation, its data from the bureau, labour statistics on unemployment, those kinds of things, that's what we traffic in in the new side that we do in our particular hour, and I find that so much of people's reaction is projection either proper

then I drop their anti resident drum and I think that their feelings factor into the way that they hear what we're saying. So we try to be very careful in the way that we, then things knowing that people are gonna come out from you know, often very tribal places and its sometimes the interment ourselves more about their emotions, and things are so emotional and passionate on both sides. Right now, it's more about that and it is about what were presenting. So what do you make of of the critique said? The troll administration is somehow weekly stonewalling, that they there. Why I'm your journalist, the critique, is that they are a threat to press freedom. You have Jim costume Ladys find you someone who wants you liked him, a castle of drama Castaway of Jim accosted CNN, who actually put our books about how victimized he is from an air conditioned office and in Washington DC? So what we as a journalist, what's your impression of how transparent the Trump administration is or is not? I think

If anything, I would say that this administration- sometimes there are members of infilling there to transparent, because he does say and think what he yet. Oh, he I e high. He puts it all out there, whether on twitter, whether stopping to talk at these dangles, as he does so often when it comes to or from the White House me that's something we didn't always get with previous administrations. He will soften. Take question after question. I think in the beginning, there were probably some people on several acknowledge: keep moving just get on Marine one, and let's go on this trip. He loves that he loves to engage there, but I think has critics or an essay. Yeah he's been really nasty to the press. The fact that he points them or calls them out. When there are these rallies, he always puts them in the back

it's something you see him consistently do. He knows it's a winning! I'm talking point for him with a crowd whose there, but as far as transparency, is concerned, I think he's made himself in ways that are very unique to him much more available to the press into these questions than a lot of people have in the past, because even if he is doing a joint pressure with a foreign leader, he ends are taking all kinds of questions that I think sometimes people in his staff. We're trying to manage m would like him to do less of that, but I think he's made himself pretty available. I think every White House can be criticised for not turning over more documents or having more press conferences and because they are limited in that respect, we don't have a ton of press conferences and briefings from them that we ve had more of those in the past. So I think he gives you a little bit more the personal side, but I think on the more structured side of the way that this event,

straight and talks to people, certainly that there are those in the procedure which it more of that when one thinks there's been kind of fascinating to watch the dynamic between dynamic between President Trumpet Fox NEWS, the little tweet things out where it is as though he has certain expectations. The Fox news gonna cover him in a particular way again making. I think some, this mistakes that people on the left made mistaken the opinion, starting with the shot and he show for four years show, for example, or the idea that if a Fox news has a town hall with people to judge, this somehow Fox NEWS now supporting people to judge what before they were just that from now on, and that seems to have created a false perception of Fox news among people right now left so in your mind what do you think Fox NEWS actually is obviously to huge talking one people on both sides, the aisle? What I think is interesting about Fox and I always tell the story, but my dad's birthday is the same day the fox launched and he loved it, because he is. You know that Well enforcement officer he's passed away. Now he was a former marine, everybody says never former, but I just

that he's not in this earth anymore, to say Europe, but he felt like when Fox launched. It actually was a place that presented stories and viewpoints that he felt represented for the first time in a long time in the media, not that they were taking aside, but at least that they told his part of the story or that they looked at stories that other people would overlook. The fact that it was being presented so, I think, about a lot of people like my parents and people out there in Amerika. I feel like ok. This is a place. That's at least going to treat our new point like it's one worthy of conversation are being included. I'm so I think foxes unique in some of the stories that we pick and the way that we do things. There is definitely the opinion contingent on which is highly popular and has a very devoted fan base. But we do make a real effort to keep a dividing line between that and the news division. So I think in the new division,

do stories that you may not hear other places and we tapestries in a different way by our commitment is always to have both sides on. I don't think it's interesting to go on and have you know any kind of conversation about a particular issue, whether its abortion or taxation or whatever it is. It only have one side. I think it's a much more interesting conversation for people to make sure you have two or three sides or, however many you can fit into broadcast to have that conversation cost me, that's adding value, that's where viewers to learn something new, maybe or at least be like ok. I hadn't thought about that particular point, unwilling to at least here it. So what struck a little bit about you're sort backstory. So how you got where you are, because there's lots this in your book finding the bright side. So if you go back all the way to the beginning, you grew up in a very christian household than that, had very solid values. Obviously talk at the beginning of a book for future tapirs about your mom and how she really impact, you too, I thought. Maybe you talk a little bit about that yeah. I turn. When did they chapter about her caught the meanest mom in the world and people cringe border? When I say that, but the truth, is she embrace that title? It was

Actually, a yard sale at G20, which is the kind of thing we would have done growing up that there was a plaque they're called meanest mom in the world. She actually found it when the book came out and tweeted in text me a picture of it cuz. It does exist and it's hilarious that talks about sort of like I'm, not your friend. We will be one day but right now, I'm here to keep you on the straight and narrow and keep you out of trouble It goes and that's it kind of thing she hung up in the kitchen, and that really is how I grow. Up, I mean I really was not allowed to listen a secular music. There is definitely no don't dancing. That kind of thing there was a ton of love, though, and I understood the discipline because I was from a young age, always asking why why? Why don't do this way? My ideas better and my parents allowed me to do that tried to channel that energy and positive ways and how to keep me on the street marrow and either little things that I did here and there they got me into trouble. They always knew the oyster. My mom was a teacher at the school. I went to cater twelve, so I was hardly get away with really anything, and I joke about when the movie Footloose came out, I was in high school was not allowed to see it because I was living in footloose some

He got a big just copy. People have to Google that and we watched it someone's house there vcr- and I remember I didn't know my parents. As I was living at. So that's really. I grew up and you really did lead an extraordinarily clean life and for somebody who's in a sort of public life, This is considered taboo. Now, I'd as as a person who was released, This also from youth, who is in outspoken virgin until marriages, someone who believes in those sort of social standards it you need to the book or somebody talks about, although same sorts values went to Liberty University. I you're summit took her faith seriously. I did not at liberty, universe college, originally started not at at Liberty University. You took some classes over, it was afforded Stanton and you talk a little bit about. Maybe what that clash of values like is interesting, Grubbin Tallahassee, so I had a full right of Florida stayed academically and it made sense to stay home and and be Florida and because my family, and go to college basically for free, but my parents were very open. Listen if you want to go to a place,

like Liberty, where you're going to get it education, which are also, can help people investing in her faith and allowing you to grow and that the whole time Robin about too, even though I knew financially and be tougher for them for me to do that, so I did take classes right out of high school outlawed estate. Is great university, but I realized that very first class. I hadn't psychology that their we're gonna be serious questions about my faith. We were asked to write about the most important thing in our lives, and I talked about my relationship with God, and I had a professor who wasn't nasty about it, but what sort of patronising like you'll get over that,

at some point like this is not legitimate, and I remember thinking I'm seventeen I'm going off into the world. Is this? What I want to do for the next four years, or do we want to have another four years of kind of really rooting myself in my faith in liberty has very interesting classes that are required for everybody to take that or cut of apologetic classes and really questioning and and digging into the doubts about your faith in and learning the other side of the argument- and I thought I am I think I'll do former years and that before I get into the world, that's going to constantly be questioning the most important thing in my life, one, the things that they have an interesting spoken, and I found this to be a common thread for for a lot of votes. That item you are very successful is that you were bullied not treated great back when you were an ethical and now it's funny, because whenever you see people are super successful and they say I was bullied back in high school pupils. Anything now that's not right, especially somebody like you you're in emission you're, the one of the mistress ape That how are you boy in high school? How that even a possibility? What was like two people? How do you think that shape you as a person?

I will say it had a really great environment in that it was a high school. Where a lot of friends I was always sort of on the French. I felt like I wasn't cool I was sort of a nerd partially because my mom was omnipresent at everything that I was ever turn into an giving out detentions and staff to the cool kids in school, so there what I'm sayin it was hard to try call it all. I was a very just so I had you know these thick glasses. I was one of those little kids, I'm not sure with Cuba. Like second third grade wearing glasses, always had a book in my hands I was a bookworm. I joke, but really think that originated any friends because we had a pool, so people would want to come to us out of the full and I might have been in my room reading books, but they're they're having a great time jumping run in full. So I just- and I still I think, carry this, which I think is a good thing to feel like you always sort of on the outside a little bit looking in, and I felt that way as a kid and- and I certainly was not cool. There was a very cool girl who and it'd be a great friend of mine who lived across the sky for me, she's loaded older than of any of the rules that I had, and I thought she was super cool because she listened all. You know this hair bands and they had Kay,

well at their house, and all these things we never would have had, but I remember she's, to make fun of me for just how sheltered she thought I was and uncool that I but I think it makes you get a little bit of a shell and almost a badge of I don't have to give into peer pressure joke in the book. I didn't have a ton of beers pressuring me to do anything, but it's I wasn't afraid said, cannot be my own person and stand up in and kind of a little. With an outsider and I still kind of annex I think always will soon. As I got up and ask you about how you got from doing stuff at Liberty University, in going on trips to Brazil, to do community aid to doing beauty pageant get that I'm just one. Second, first as summer sizzled, you feel like you are cooking in your closing roasting. If you can't handle the heat, it's probably cause, you need who underwear and Tommy John has the perfect solution, Tommy, Innovative cool cotton, underwear for men and women is a summer much it's like your own on body. Air conditioner, which need if you live out in California, Tommy Johns, cool cotton fabrics features breathable lightweight fibres that keep you two to three times cooler and drive forty five times faster

and regular cotton Tommy John Men's and women's underwear sport. I know what you guarantee that totally. Would it help me back in high school? All their underwear comes in a range of styles and fabrics that are suited to your entire summer. Wardrobe the legs, never right up the waistband. Never rolled down there, you design, ensures there's no pinching or bunching ever Tommy John, is so sure you're going to love the fit and feel it's all back by their best pair you'll ever wear or it's free guarantee. That means, if you don't love, at First Bear Unifil Refund Tommy, on no adjustment needed hurry, at a time in transit com, slash ban right now to get twenty percent off your first order. That is taught me: John dot com, Slash Ben for twenty percent off Tommy Johns. Slash. But how do I know their goods and wearing them right now, Tommy dot com slashed by various. Let's talk about your history in beauty pageant Some this element is not as happened. They anything about up, maybe connects Wayne sort of the appeal of ITALY. Will what got you into this? In the first place you when I was a little kid and watch Miss Merrick with me my mom and my grandma, and I thought it was so glamorous and I thought how do these people have it so together, you know these sparkly evening gowns they look perfect.

They know everything about solving world peace. They have all these great idea whose eyes you flatter greaser, like other worldly beings. I think this is really exciting and, as I got older, I learned a lot more about them. Is America pageant that had actually most of the winnings that you would have paid in scholarship where you actually, then, if you have scholarship money, you have to submit to them. You know your tuition bills in that kind of thing, in its very much push towards getting you to finish your education and scholarship in the process of for me. I had a guy who cut my hair. I talk about him in the book who was running one of these local pageants that fed into Miss American. I done one before it was disastrous because during the telling competition I forgot my piano peace halfway through the total stage fright. I thought. Maybe this powder thing is it for me, but the guy come here is like not to know you should do this again. You should try it, and I went on to win this little local passionate go off to Miss Virginia still with his horrible stage fright about playing the piano and it really deepened my prayer life. I say to people because I was so terrified and praying the whole time onto the stage through the bees. You know getting through

and saying, like God. I know that you ve brought me here for reason and I have to depend on you in this terrifying situation, which I think a lot of things in life. If they scare you kind of a good idea to try it and that's kind of high view. This whole thing and if you later. I was there in the finals, Amiss America, never thinking. As a nineteen year old, I was gonna, go from you do almost falling off the stage with embarrassment and forgetting my peace to be in the files and Miss America, but it's like, unlike anything I ever did before. It, enabled me to graduate from college with zero debt, which was a huge gift to my family. As I come from a modest background, but it forced me to go out and travel online speak really dig into a lot of ideas. The very first question I got it Miss Amerika was there was a k, K, K rally in Georgia yesterday. Is that right, with the first amendment you know, protects and I thought well. Ok, we're gonna, have serious questions and serious discussion, and so is the very thoughtful engaging process, not for everyone. Not everyone wants to walk on stage in a swimsuit in here rules, but that was actually the least of my worries there.

The whole rested process was much more terrifying to me than walking around Muslims and there's been a lot of the criticism of the pageant specifically because the sort swimsuit aspect of it from both for the feminist, right, feminist, left, and also from this she'll Conrad people say, while basically isn't that just scheme The entire is that appropriate. What what what you're taken, whether these, pensions should continue to include things like swimsuit competition. I mean to me its nobody is forcing you to do this? If you choose this way, potentially to put yourself through school or to eat a push yourself, intellectually, to Billy Dickens these issues for a lot of the young woman? That's the toughest part, is doing the interview and having to dig into questions like the first amendment, or gun control or whatever it is there a lot of political questions in the pageant now, so I think that there's a lot of ways to look at how it pushes you and me from me the physical aspect of it was the least of it. I did encourage me to quit. Being a

as a college student in eating twenty four seven and envy much more discipline in that part of my life, so was discipline across the board, not for everyone I mean for me it was you know, a great option, but I know a lot of the programmes are trying to in America, especially are trying to modernize in that they're saying, if you do, one soon you can wear active or if you want to and we're not gonna insists that everybody be a skeleton. I mean it's it's about who you are and what your body as and I think it's been healthy- that there has been much were of an acceptance in advertising hadn't. So whenever that people are unique and have different shape- and you know you could be positive about whoever you are I'm for me. It took me to a different level of discipline across the board that I needed as a college. Kids. Do you think the when it comes to patenting they're, serious questions to be asked about objectification of women? Treating women simply is pretty objects. Yes, there is this there's of this other aspect. There is playing music and people answering political questions, but the essence of it as it is a beauty contest. It is not just a piano playing cards as citizens, Tchaikovsky Competition in Russia,

I wouldn't have done well about, though, what would he make up of that particular credit? I get it. I may I completely get it, and I understand that we're having important conversations about the role of women and the role of equality and all of those kinds of things. So for me, if it's not for you in tasks I'm not going to play in the NFL. I mean there are different options for different people. I say we don't take it away and say this option is no longer going to be there because for some young women, it's a lot of fun is very helpful financially and it's and it's a good option for some people, but I guess it's some people will say: listen if you're walking out on the stage in a swimsuit that's not great for women, but do you take that decision away than from woman who say no for me, it's fun I dont for pressure, and I doing and I think in the twenty first century we and have all the options on the table. If it's not for you don't do it means it is pretty interesting to see this sort of hiding between, as I say, the social right and sort of the feminist left. A lot of these issues

at the same time. There's this. This move, that's been very bizarre in both media. I am advertising away from basic human standards of beauty The ideas that were supposed to pretend that beauty pageant is no longer a beauty pageant that basically does the Tchaikovsky competition and the only way for this stuff to survive is for us to move away from the very idea of beauty pageant. It all seems to me that if you're going to a beauty pageant, it seems like we should probably be part of it, and I think you see that now, there's, difference in Miss America, Miss USA, alot of people? You know you hear one and it sounds the same. They actually split years ago over an issue. Related to swimsuits, so Miss America's is seen as the war act. Demagogue you have. The scholarship find Miss. Usa does not apologise, I mean they do swimsuit evening gown and in energy portion they're all equal, and they don't away from it in for a lot of young women who are spoiling aspiring models actresses, the woman who just one Miss USA is a lawyer. Image she's actually been through school educated and as a practising lawyer. So I think it's an avenue for different people to choose what they want to pursue.

You miss USA makes no bones about the fact that this is a beauty pageant. This is a competition, but we also have women here who are doctors, lawyers and if that's, what they choose to do good for them yeah, I mean new. When I was at Harvard LAW one of my friends. There was actually a form of Miss America, winner, Erika Harold, when in a building for Congress in Illinois, and they learn enormous number of qualified women who actually compete in a sort of stuff and our really academically, brilliant speaking that you, you ended up moving on into into laws had it. How did you decide that that was the direction they wanted to move? Well, I was always fascinated by politics. In a you know, it's all intertwined with this idea of our laws and how they come to be in how we decide to navigate our society? My dad always said to me when I was in school, you're going to law, school or med school gonna pick one. I don't hear anything about any guys or password you don't like. Then they work like you get one of those in the symmetrical was not ever can happen for me for numerous reasons, but Moscow had no mass and I thought that would be a good option for me. I wasn't sure what I would do with it. I was very hesitant,

I thought I want to go to law school, I think it'll be a basis for a lot of potential things at an awful practice which it did briefly, but I had an opportunity to go back home to Florida state in Tallahassee and to go to school sickly again for free, did a law degree and then figure out what I was going to do. But I even before I was out of school, I knew this is not going to be the traditional practice of law. Isn't what I was going. Do the rest of my life and so you ended up moving into tv. There are tons of people who actually obviously want to be and heavy and ensure the question there are asking is: how do I do this woman? What does the pathway to getting into TB enter their enormous number? People want a job just like yours or your job, a familiar faces. How did you get into tv ice? I am less than people I mean I went to the bottom of the wrong and started there. I mean I was to go. Do an internship. I want a volunteer one of the local stations in Tampa, whereas proxy lawn Florida is it you come in as an intern and I said, ok. Well. How do I do that country for college credit? I started calling all of the local universities and schools a cake, and I take this credit through you, so I can go internet this. No, we have to come back,

here it your mass com degree when you get into your third or fourth level of classes. Then wool approve this internship credit and then you can do it. I thought that's not realistic for me right now, so I just kept going, no known? No! No! I finally get University of South Florida and get the dean of the communication school I'm. This is a time when faxes are still happening. I mean I'm faxing, my transcripts for law, school from college to say, look a serious person. I want to do this. Will you help me? He was the first person said: ok, you're driving me crazy cause. I think if you just where people down that's half of it, he said stuff actually mean sending me all the stuff all do this for you. You have to do a news writing class. Could you know nothing about that? Will do but then I also approve the credits for you to go in turn at night at the station. So I did that, and it didn't tell my firm and I would go knights and weekends overnight. Whatever had to do to just go in turn their I go out with photographers reporters, I would work the desk answer. The phone make coffee,

I mean I started at the bottom. I was running everybody's errands, while practicing law during the day, but I loved it, I loved being the newsroom, and I thought you don't need to stick with this and figure out what to do here so few months into it. When the internship was wrapping up and went to the boss there and said I'm going to quit my law firm and he's like No one here is offered you job when they tell us how he actually like this is. What are we gonna do? So I'm just gonna move down this path and within a few weeks there they had this overnight position open up to a to eleven a m, and I took it and it was you know, I'm major salary kite on our were terrible. I feel I can never saw my friends. My husband would tell you I was tired all the time, but so happy, and so I started at the bottom- and I is any little job they will. Let me take on. I learn TB production from being there doing, and I was working the prompter a produce. Or quit I started producing I mean it was just one thing after another and just learning on the job, which is a you know, sink or swim kind of situation, but also greater parents be having their that's a very familiar story? I finish law school. I worked at a law from for ten months. I hated it,

despite their eyes about it, is about to get on your end. We just gotten a mortgage anaconda and my wife. What you mean said you quit equipment at the job for one third, the rising production. Behind the scenes net that everybody starts amended, it still did go. Loss go up in a text that will recommend vote should continue its anti judges runway thinking this very useful, but don't stick with something that hate trying as there's money behind life is too short. Yet I had to tell myself even within the new business there been times, I've taken promotions are different jobs that were tied to a financial bob, and I thought I knew that wasn't right for me, but I did for the wrong reasons. So I do think you have to follow your passion and what you're gonna be excited to get up every day due to have you get from local Those are the way to Fox NEWS being a national broadcaster. Why do like to include this about getting fired from my very first, a guy who put me on tv left the station. The new guy who came in everybody was freaked out and they say you don't understand when a new person comes in they clean house in. Unlike making, no money and I'm doing ten jobs here and loving it. I have a great attitude like I'm safe, no, we're not

save with a guy called in and the head of each hour, was sitting there. I literally first second thought that promoting me they're not gonna happen. Now they had a radar sitting. There does not happening in the guy said to me: you're the worst person I've ever seen on tv. You will never make it in this business I dont know why anyone, but you on television it was humiliating- and I cried I literally went into a sound proof. A bay and cried was so humiliated. It took months and months and months, me to get anyone to return. My calls I played for jobs all over the country, Eventually, I landed at a wonderful station in Charlotte North Carolina worth their three years than went to DC to work for the embassy affiliates. While I was there, I Fox had exploded and I was sending my work there, can get an interview. Nobody cared because they get a thousand has made a day and so on. My husband who handles unprofessional speakers had booked Brit Hume for, and that is a bore. It was a breakfast event and he said you need to come up with me tomorrow morning. He'll be there. Maybe we can talk to him.

And what's the late news the night before I did not want to do when I got up that morning, had a huge sit on my face like this is not a good first impression. I want a golf warehousing convinced me to go, so we get there Brits, wait winning by stage in the green room, some sort of a captive audience the programmes running behind a little ways into that. My husband says: you may not know bribery. If you recognize my wife, she is a local anchor here in Dc Unbreadlike, all very nice. What would you like to do long term- and this was my moment of truth, and I just said I want to come work for what fox- and he is like. That's nice, who's gonna, be like people say that to me all the time, I'm not sure they understand exactly what we do. How somebody send your stuff over, maybe I'll, give you some advice and cleared by I'm a little embarrassed. I leave the room sort of take a walk. The geyser there talking while gone. He says to shoulder my husband: do you think that our own? Does she like politics? What does she liked to companies the ball when she was a law school? She worked in the forty speakers office and he said law school did she finished, hasn't the cashier graduate with fires where it says to him. Do you think she would want to cover the Supreme Court for Fox NEWS and

sort of like I will speak for her, but I think that would probably be asked why come back in the room? Five ten minutes later and Brit literally says to me one can you start am like? I don't know what just happened here for the past? If I saw a man, but I shall be paying my husband, the agency me that we're back to my agent and from there it was. You know there were several months in their wives, cylinder contract with NBC that run trying to work things out to get the fox didn't think it was gonna happen numerous times that look like it when come together, and I had to sort of like all the process and eventually when my contract was up with NBC. I went over the fox thanks to boot hue and I've been there's no evidence. So when I ask about these Supreme Court, be what that was like just one second, but first with the ever increasing number of car makes him models is now impossible to stop all the power. You need in a traditional chain. Storefront, why endure often pointless or seemingly intimidating questioning like, is your odyssey, an Alex or an x and wait? Well countermine orders the parts on his computer choosing the Brand, his warehouse happens to carry. This seems like a bad deal, especially because you have computers with access to rock.

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My life? I'm really think it's it's been exacerbated over the blueskins Rovers his way, but even in the last fifteen or twenty years it seems could become the number one issue in a lot of people's radar. Many people, a tribute present forms victory to the fact that there is an open Supreme Court's Eden. That was Goliath see. So what was it like to cover the Supreme Court? How political wasn't it son when first, I started. I realized how much I had to learn. The very first giant case I covered of over. There was dealing with Foam Guantanamo Bay, the rights of various prisoners there. It had been back in four through the federal court system numerous times and I just trying to read the record and get ready for covering it there, the Supreme Court. I was well- and this is a a different level of reporting. It's a tough to cover costs. There are almost zero leaks over there I mean any one whose lurking there and their negative with their entire legal career, giving you information is only Congress where people like here I've got. Stuff. I want you to tell her that I want to leave the earth's completely the opposite, but I London, because it was an intellectual challenge for me. I was Indy use that law background doing it. I just knew I had a lot of work to do to get up to speed over

or so it was little overwhelming in the beginning, I missed a very astir place and they don't mess around over there, but I've really enjoyed getting to know the various justices as much as you can really trying to figure out how their brains work, how you think, going to vote on and really interpreting the oral arguments, because there are a lot of them that lay booby traps on both sides and they want to play doubles advocates you dont know how they're gonna boat. So yeah, I mean it has become highly political, which I dont think is what the founders ever intended for the dish of judicial branch at all. I think it's morphed into something that's probably away from the original intentions, but covering the confirmation hearings. I should say battles over the last several years. I've never seen anything like what happened with the cabinet situation. I mean I've covered. That's probably my fifth one. There was nothing ever like that before. I think. Even just you know you think about it. You Justice Kennedy who was you know such at the end of either the swing vote. He hates

In that term he was confirmed. Ninety seven to nothing I mean those days are gone. I can't imagine us doing that years ago. They would confirm my voice boat. Now, it's a totally different process and I think the whole thing has been so politicized. I think it's a little bit off off the rails school. What do you think of how the governor hearings broke down monopolies that that was probably the biggest hot, but an issue of the last five to ten years. American politics, maybe even surpassing persuasive, seen sixteen election itself. How do you think that that ended up playing yeah, I mean I. I truly have never seen anything like that, because I was there in the room and it became apparent within ten seconds of then chairman grass starting the hearing. It was not going to be a normal hearing at all whether from the die as from the various members. Were the audience in the end, those seats for the public. That I mean we literally from our vantage point that were add, as were broadcasting sort of sky boxes overlooking area we could look down.

See each group that they brought in and you can immediately. We started playing sort of bingo on the protesters like that one's gonna pop up that one and a half of it with AL I mean the first day was so jarring because it happened so often by day free. We were sort of like there's another program, you're capital, please very good with informing people. If you do, this year's, what's gonna happen quickly, quickly, taking them out and moving on to the hearings, but then, when we started to get the fall out from the letter that came in with Centre Feinstein revealing at all of that played out over the next few weeks, it just got so vitriolic. There were times that people did not feel safe. I'm talking about senators trying to get to the floor to vote. You saw it happened. I mean, regardless of what side there were on their alot of people who very upset. I ve never seen people that emotional about anything. I've covered that certainly the most emotional topic restore that I've seen where people just were relentless about a minute, it has become really blood sport and in it, must be difficult for you in your woman at Fox NEWS, which means that

you're going. We shall act by the media for having the temerity to be a woman it at Fox NEWS. What is that like me now that it seems like every issue is being broken down into a certain sort of sexual politics, for women are expected to be on one side. Men are expected to be another. Cavanaugh is an example of this, where it must have been there. If your woman and you thought that there were holes and Christine Blasi Ford story, then you we're being disloyal. Two women Univee objectively covered that you're being too soils women. How? How did that? How do you deal with it was taking me has as a woman who has had a few me to moments myself in my life, my legal career beyond on, but also being a lawyer, I thought we can we really careful about this, because I am a hundred percent in favour, as every American, I think, should be in the idea of due process. No one in this country should be accused without the opportunity to defend themselves and to have some due process. This was different because it's not a core proceeding. You know people would say its most glorified job interview in the world, so I definitely had very serious concerns about

you process, but as a woman who has been through some of these things, I thought we need to hear from this person and we need to allow senators to make informed decision about who she is and where she's coming from, but ass. We started to get that second and third and fourth tier of people who are that now sending an anonymous letters that he and his friend had sexually out of the multiple times in a car, but I can't name myself the guy who got trouble for sending in a false report about something I'm saying that a woman was on a boat with Cavanaugh. She called him for help. I mean it just gotta, be preposterous. We're like now we're losing sight of the course story, the person who is willing to come here under oath and tell her story here side of the story as were now. Are you know, Michael Avenant? He gets into it. We have the Julie, sweat next Emily it turned into such a circus that I think people lost the ability to be objective about a lot of it because it became completely political and not about the substance of what was being discussed. So I want to ask about some was me two experiences

so. Obviously, this become a hot button issue again in the country. It seems like this is really ratchet up since today. And twelve. When Mitt Romney was about the most anodyne human being offered walk, the earth was supposedly waging a war and what woman, and then that was revived obviously, during in twenty sixteen, when President Trump was not ended. I was running for president of the United States in Hillary Clinton sort of revived that so you ve, been in the tuna industry, which is not well known for its treatment of the treatment of women you are in beauty pageant also not typically well known for four wonderful treatment of women. What we're sum of, but your perspective on, meet you in what were some kind of the experiences that you about. I mean there's some. You know, there's the funny subtle stuff that has not actual assault, but if it makes you very aware of some gender stereotypes and things, I echo was a young attorney that I was conducting a deposition in person came in that day with her lawyer, I met them out. Front nay said tell Mr Brain that I'm here please get me some coffee, its MRS brain, and I ll see about getting you gotta get out of certain things

probably most of that, had to do with the fact that I was so young and baby faced as a new attorney like I'm gonna, be the one deposing you today. There were two times that we would show up for a deposition for something else in there somebody there that maybe we were representing the company that they worked for and they were being accused of sexual harassment, the weighted treated me when I walked in the door? Thought might be true, you might want to sell. This case that may occur that start that it happens like dogs. This may not be your best character, witness your arm, but there were. You know there were times over the years where I've been put in situations that are uncomfortable. There were discussed actions about my body or about being more sexual or being more sexy on tv, I mean those conversations are uncomfortable and you have to navigate them carefully. As a woman, I been a sexual harassment attorney when I was sitting in those conversations in it thinking. Ok, they're aligns I'm not going cross. How close am I to that line because my career does matter to me. I think there's a way to as a woman navigate this carefully to respectfully use, comedy or humour to get myself out of this situation, not offending the person who is now making a decision about my

career, but also maintaining my own dignity, and sometimes it's it's a really and line to walk, I wear exactly that went on to be spoken with a bunch of women on this before and asked the same sort of question women who Carl, if you're in visiting this chair a few weeks ago, just talking about some of her experiences in the business world when the sort of sexism- and I asked her. So how do you deal with the the person across from you? You seek to do You is using to elevate the at what point you say. Ok, why can't work here any more honey, druthers lines yet and that that's so frustrating to me as a woman? Could you feel like we shall have to make that decision? I mean you shouldn't, be put not play yes, but also of your being realistic about some conditions- and I think, listen the last five years or so. That's wildly change that companies are having extreme make overs with the way that they handle HR, giving women a place to report, and so I think, there's been such a disinfectant of sunlight, which is fantastic for all women and men get harass too. I mean we have to be honest. I've seen those cases plenty of them in my career as well. So I think that the more we can do

personally, where we're gonna to draw a line from me. It was I talk about Roger ills and the book and the fact that he was a dichotomy like everybody. He was incredibly generous to people who were in trouble or ill or had emergencies in their life. He was a tv genius, but there was the sight of him to that. For me, I had to deal with some really uncomfortable conversations and I kept going backing having those conversations guess. It was part of a regular part of my career to meet with him into advocate for myself to take on new assignments and do things. But there came a point to me where I felt like there was a moment where he said. Let's talk about you having a show, and I thought the untasted. I talk about the book, how I put together this fuller of Allah might ideas. It was very mapped out and specific, and I went in there to talk to him. I had the folder he immediately

Natasa Boulder side where I realized, when I can have a conversation about the show. That's drawing me back into another one of these uncomfortable conversations with SAM and I said it may jealous in my career. But at this point I have to draw the line here and say: I'm not going to have these uncomfortable meetings with him anymore and so for the the last few years. He was at Fox and never saw him again in person, and I thought I can live with that because for me gone to my my breaking point, which is no more of us and I love my job is Supreme Court correspondent. If that's the last thing, I do a fox, I will have been blast and I love it and I left it there and I never saw him again after that last meeting where, for me, That was the line in the sand. I move around to get gossipy, but I think I'd be remiss by DNS what those uncomfortable conversations were like what what exactly the content of those words will we he would talk about. The need to be more sexy on tv, chew. The conversation he would uses people need to think if they went on a date with you, it be a good time because, right now, that's not

five on getting premium Clive getting like church, lady vibe, which is me. I gotta, give often heard slave I've and I must say with that, and I think he understood the medium of tat. A vision and he knew what audiences wanted in a way that sometimes you had to think. Ok, as a journalist and ok with this- yes, I can dress differently that when I was a lawyer and I wore black suit a quarter every day, so ok, that's a step I can take. I need to address more colorful I need to be more imaginative about that, but if I have to try to do the news in a way that also me flirting with the audience, no, that's ok, with me at that feels you can have awakened and not about a funny, topical story here and there, but I didn't want to come across a crosses provocative or somebody who was trying to be sexually. Loring while delivering the news that just wasn't something that works for me as a combination she's been really, but to watch everybody trying to navigate kind of the new and I am As a social conservative and somebody who is very strict on these matters myself, I'm pretty cool from a social conservative, one of the new lines that are being drawn at some time, one of them

is that I see is that there is almost a virtue that is attached to claiming for some people that they ve been, demise more than they ve been victimized, the other week I was, as with my wife and we're Disneyland, my kids were walking down the street and there was this big fat homeless guy sitting alongside the street and his wife during a beanie without marijuana symbol, in Amerika. Will this guy probably is not in our vice president at chased him back and were walking by, and he turns to my wife is interactive woman and, as she walked by, he goes o girl. Don't Do that, and I am always turns Minsk was still got it about ways of like you know, I understand the guy gathering selling gotta come on like yeah, I mean I agree with you. I had a guy on the metro in DC offer to pay my rents. Those, like I haven't, heard that one before that apply to mortgages because, like like I'm never going to be offended. I and I won't get emails from people even friends or people that I don't know who say like I love the address you had on tonight

really great. Am I getting in trouble for saying that I am one of those people who cares about that yeah. I would like to think it almost fifty that people think I look sort acute. So I'm fine with that and if somebody walking down the street is you know, you know instead Asia is another thing, but to get an admiring glance, or something like that. I dont know what woman well now some women will be offended by that. I'm not why of them. I mean sheriff across his align into something supranational, not ok, I'm, but for me that even I have male friends that have to worry about whether they can say that somebody looks nice or how I feel you know. I am hoping that the pendulum will equalize somewhere. Where people can feel comfortable. Saying nice things to a friend were a woman, that's in their life on the baron acquaintance with and not feeling like. They have to be, he hypersensitive, but the freeway. So you have obviously a very demanding career. You also family had balanced? Did the needs that mean you're doing a show at eleven, a m on the east coast? That's that's really rough met. My wife has bad hours because she is a doctor, but that eventually

that will end in chauvinist residency and soldiers were owners? How do you have been able to balance those demands while I'm an idle so that for me, work- really well. I was for about a year doing the morning, show with Bill Hemmer, who I adore in New York that men I was up at four hundred and thirty, which and those are not my hours, a dot m four hundred and thirty p dot m sure. When they came to me and said, we really wanted to launch this nighttime new show at eleven. I thought I'm awake that that's great for me. So it works really well for me just a biologically, and I also have a husband that I've been married for we ve been married from us twenty four years and so he has been through everything with me the doing the lawn hating at every day of my life getting up, as I'm sure your wife's. How would you going to do it getting fired, moving around the country, I'm going to couldn't have done any of this without him, and so we don't have kids, and I talked about that in the book cuz. I get asked that question a lot to explain in the book, but the two of us that you know we kind of try to be each other's. Sure, leaders and biggest supporters, we disagree and have arguments like everybody does on, but we try to

number were on the same team, and so that means that sometimes, when I've crazy hours, I travel. He comes with me when it and where he make sure that our house does not completely imploding disaster. When I'm not there, you know he's a guy who's greater No all things and I'm not good at which are like cooking grocer shopping, Ito laundry. I can put it in there, you know and get it started red or very much a team, and I dont think I could have done any of us about him. But how did you meet We met in school at Liberty and oversee undergrad on. We have friends were constantly trying to put us together. We always dating other people now that I did anyone before him, but Thirdly, devise week you that we had front kept running, put us together, and so finally, our senior year, we were at this homecoming sort of a ball game. My parents were there, he was they are my my friend who really was instrumental in putting us together, came to meet you, like you or me, him to day, so she dragged him over to me. I think- and I was with my family and I joke about it. I love my mom instep, dad myself, it's very unique as AMOS Jasper,

So when my husband, I met him that day formally, we had friends in common but to really meet him. I'm saying there with my step dad who is a unique care, and I'm thinking he's already met. My very interesting cept add on day one of those not even be on a day get on, and so I thought, if, if you can make it through that, God, with on this very first meeting There might be something to it. Now we were still dating other people at that time, so nothing came of it or our final semester in school. We were both single unavailable and at that point and determine I'm leaving an on going home to law school. I'm tired of having my heart, broken by the last guy, that I did. I'm gonna wait like a guy and I'm not gonna, get emotionally tat. Maybe a nice dinner out, something like that. That's it and he play baseball and a lot of the players on the team kind of had this player reputation for not being they must wholesome cars in the world. They got a couple of them briefly earned. What what I found on our first date with him is that it wasn't accurate for him, and he turned to me this guy deep faith, wonderful, family back.

Very faintly oriented, and I kind of new very early on like this guy is marriage material. This is a serious thing. I'm going off to law school. I do, and I think when you Pharma, somebody really can't help that he says he went home that night after our first date and told his remains we're gonna get married, ah and told me that for a little while, but I think that I knew right away with something different to yet. That is every story that I hear is basically the guy knows almost immediately, and it is this: where was with with my wife. I knew like right away that I was gonna marry my wife and then it took her a little while you go the same way as they are exactly. I ever saw no look at her. Also yeah, that's right, How do you get around so everyone or up exactly so I'm weak? We have two kids NASA. To wage out not get our word eleven years in July, so that she can a gas. So you open your book talking about this health crisis that you have with your site and how your faith helped gate throws worries, you tell a story. Yeah I've been struggling for along I'm with a genetic. I condition that I have, and I didn't know I mean it- took almost two years actually get diagnosed. What I knew

I started waking up in the middle of the night with excruciating pain. That I mean literally makes me jump out of bed. I mean it was as if somebody were stabbing my eye it seems so strange when I first started happening as it was very infrequent became more and more frequent. My first original, I doctors like I can't help you, but I think we need to get you to a specialist to figure this out. I went to that next. Specialist spend a few months with It got to the point where it's nearly every night, so I dreaded going to sleep because I knew for whatever reason as soon as happening overnight so exhausted. I'm now living in chronic pain, double vision, a lot migraines everything that was triggered by was happening with my eyes, trying to hide it from everybody and do my job, because I had no words where they had no diagnosis. So after a couple of visits to the specialist they went back to him, I really just barely holding it together at this point like eighteen months into not sleeping chronic pain, and he says to me, I just think you really emotional yeah. I am because my world is like a barely holding together at this point I left fair and felt so discouraged that he couldn't help

and and that it was sort of suggested that I was not on that for long coming back to the doktor some living in this constant cycle of excruciating pain, chronic sleep deprivation and that gets you to a really bad place, because I'm now almost two years, and two it sorts arching online, which I say, don't do for health condition. Could often you like seventeen seconds to live, and I said it's all over I so I was just trying to find people with similar sent him. So I could get an answer and I would stumble into these message boards and chap words whether people would say yeah. I've been turned away from the emergency room ten times nobody can tell we know and can help me and then you know a talk about ending their lives and I thought actually somebody huge relief. I got to the point where I was into my forties then, and I thought I can't make it another forty years like this, I can't make a forty seconds some days. I am barely able to keep it together and I thought that you, since such a relief, if each citizen and not wake up, and I really do think it through a little bit. What will it do to my family? What will it do to the people

I loved and that sort of shocked me a little bit too logically and intellectually. Knowing that's not the choice you want to make, but it wasn't such a bad state emotionally, and I think, when you're physically exhausted to it, exacerbates everything, and I went to my husband and said: listen, I'm really at the lowest point in he was the only one who had any clue what was happening and he said we're gonna find your doktor when you start from scratch. We're gonna do this and I remember praying so many times order for not gonna he'll me. Please just send me to the right person who can help make us. Sometimes God has a different plan that we do, and I thought maybe not healing me. That's not part of it, so I worked to find another doktor within a couple of days. They found a spent,

the courtiers specialist in D C, and I call than I should keep its gathered on a crazy, don't cry on this phone call and the lady said to me: can you hold launch, came back and said had a cancellation for tomorrow? Can you make it- and I said I just one more night got em displaying get me through this night. Let this guy helping tomorrow I get there and his assistant, who does the initial assessment? Does all the right up? He walks and having read them he's like, I know it you have and it really for the first time in two years I felt like this little sprout of hope, like? Somebody finally is gonna help me. Please let me look at your eyes, but I'm almost unheard percent sure he goes to any I kept. This is what you have to jack condition as we go through the appointment eventually says me just say you know there is no cure and I can whately lost it. I don't remember. Even checking out I remember running back to my car was filling in for Bret Baier. That night on the six box show I had to get back there, never getting in the car and just stopping and stopping and stopping and saying like cod. Why, like? I can't

can living like this, and I really just that. I'm not strive my car for bridge, I mean I can't function this way anymore and I was praying I'm crying, and I remember I said if people I don't feel like I've, audibly heard the voice of God, but I remember feeling in my spirit him saying I will be with you not going to heal you, and I take this away lice going to be perfect. But I'm going to walk through this with you. It was such a calming staying because it's felt, like I heard from him, and I drove back to work after that day, and then she went back to the doctor, and he said I don't want you to what I'm saying. I can't hear you there is no cure for this, but we can manage it and eventually years later with, that meant was having the surgery that it put off and put off and put off, and the prognosis was, I went to work on your corneas

this thing, but while I'm there, I'm gonna cracked revision as well. At the same time, watching this new eleven o clock, Chauffeur Fox and oh my great- I have a couple weeks off camera. He says within a couple weeks. Most patients have their vision better than its ever been it's gonna be great. I quickly realized for slot is an extra shading pain for the recovery is part of it, but I couldn't see I mean I could see blobs I can drive. I couldn't see my phone can re my computer, I couldn't recognised people's faces. I completely shut down in kind of went into a shell cause. I thought I could even say how to people in HAWK as their blobs walking by donor, who this is so. I talk about in the book during that I had been book to speak, a conference, a christian conference and I wanted to cancel because I thought this is ridiculous. I can't even I don't. How am I going to get there? I can't see- and so I went to my husband looking for affirmation of wanting to cancel this thing, but I didn't get that from him and he said no, I think you should go. I think you should be honest. Either people face and they're going to want to hear this and be super

a view, and he was right. I just navigating the airport I talk about in the book I mean I couldn't see, I'm asking people to help me to get from gate gate and I'm really emotional, Hoping to see, I go on the stage to speak. I can't see they're like hey, just look at the clock in the back. You need a wrap up at this time and, like I can't see the clock back, I can't see people space in the audience my mom. Let me there to be my seeing eye human for the weekend to get me through this thing and I just levelled with people. I was honest in that speech. Like hey, I'm not here to make fun of myself and be funny like I usually unlike struggling, but I'm I'm being that you all will understand this and am relying on God. Isn't this purpose in this and makes it more emphatic when you go through things like that in his teaching me something? So I get this moment that I mean when it was over people line up down the aisles just to hug me to pray with me to cry with me to tell me about their own struggles and Zella came in a terrible place too, and it is the greatest blessing just being vulnerable and honest with people.

About how much I was struggling, and I looked at it that way, but it made me realize aping vulnerable. I want to be independent. Do everything myself? It came out of the room that way beguiling on other people sometimes, and if you don't give them the gift of being honest about higher struggling than they don't get the gift. I think of helping you learning that this one of the most four things about the book. Finding the brighter is is that you actually do talk about this sort of stuff, because if you happen to be a strong person, it seems like you seem like congenitally happy person who person who, just by name tribute I I've met you, you ve been up, be that people think, therefore, that you haven't suffered, that you don't have to struggle with these things. The fact that you are willing to to openly struggle with these things, I think, is a good reminder to folks that, just because somebody is happy, doesn't mean that they're not struggling to be happy or that if you have struggles, you can't be happy yeah and that's when I hope he will be encouraged enemy, everybody for having been there you'll, be there a sudden death of someone. You love a terrible health diagnosis, losing your job financial trouble. Just struggles are released,

Europe's whatever it is, we're all gonna be in a valley at some point, because people do think, I'm so happy all the time. I thought it was important to tell some really tough stories in the book and say: I've been in that valley. There are ways to work through it. You will come out the other side. Life doesn't always goes. We play and there's plenty of pain in the process, but I think there's purpose in it way more of authentic two people now living with chronic pain to help issues, could I been there? I think it makes you look different people differently, like you have no idea. What's going on with them remember at one point being on a treadmill and running and thinking like yeah barely I could Send it here at any moment football, these think of them struggling with personnel. Me has no idea what, if that person feels the same way. The person who cut me off travel, which I hate. Ah I'm a little crazy. I four wheel myself, but who knows what their rushing off to do? I mean we have to give each other a little bit more leeway and a little bit more respect and love because everybody struggling with something. So, let's get back to you you covering stories in internal. Isn't she talked about the difficulties of covering the cap

ah here and what was the hardest story you had to cover and what the hardest for you personally, I think sometimes where you ve been at the sight of devastation and cover tore NATO's, and you know, storm superstore sandy things like that. Recent people who utterly feel like they ve lost everything or they're just looking around themselves in their life at least the physical part of their life seems to be in championing that's really difficult. I had a story one time when it was a local report in DC about a woman who had been out walking. I'm an older woman and she had been There- was a hit and run and police were searching for this person. She had been killed in the accident

reporter. You know you have to go to the family and go knock on the door. I got there and it became quickly apparent to me, as I started talking to her husband. He did not know yet, and we were the first ones to arrive on. The scene is kids weren't even there yet, and those moments make you stop and think about humanity and just how precious life is and how people we can reportedly stories. Everyday people's lives are being devastated by the things that we report on whether it's a shooting or anything else, natural disaster. But I think things that force you back to the humanity of other people that are covering, so they are just another story that you read them before, but you're actually seeing them and seeing the dentist, ten to them, I think, is a report of those are the hardest things to show up and see people an enormous grief, it's interesting beans or the political position covering news a result, and I said around wondering if I really just sort of in the gossip business because it seems like a lot of what we do. These days is just covering whenever gossip is happening, without real really about how it impacts people's lives. What what gets up in the morning to to do what you for a living when it seems like a half the stuff that we have to cover is just

minutiae, or rather than I am super curious. You probably are too. Are you strike me? that kind of person where I want to know. What's the real story behind the story, so filling every day we're going to have we know with. Yes, we have all. We know certain things that were covering. I wanna get people off there talking points and find out. What's really going on so much of DC is political theater. I think the best example of that was a few weeks ago, when speaker oh see an attorney general bar where at this event and behind the scenes they see each other, he jokes to her about whether she's brought her handcuffs she's could throw him in the jail over the capital and she makes a joke back while the sardine arms is here so funny to arrest me when I can that's a typical DC thing. People will be at these events or cocktail parties and their fine the minute you put them in front of a camera, there's a partisan agenda and that people have to be mad. Each other were truthfully there, very chummy, a lot of them and when they see each other socially, it's fine. So I knowing that a lot of this is for show it's for the rest of us up in kind of digging to see what's really behind it. What the real policy is, what the real motivations Arcos there's always a than secret Matvey

and behind a lot of these stories and in the reason that people introduced a bill or vote for a feller, dont Boville? So to me, what gets me up is digging to find the story behind the actual headline tissue it's really not incur politicians forever. So does that? Do you think that they are more or less on us than they are portrayed media I think that's tough. You know my my dad used always joke, like lawyers are the worst rated people I think behind Dennis as far as I can, the public feels about them and then there's journalists so he's like really you're leaving lawn and hook zero as people feel this way about politicians. I think that with self unease you always see the approval rating for Congress is like eighteen percent or something like that. But when you ask people about their member its way higher, so I think there are frustrated with the institution and see that is paralyzed and doesn't get alive done. But when you talk to them about the person that represents them a lot of times less well, that's different. My person is different.

And I think we ve talked about this- a lot of politicians away from the camera are great people that you want to hang out and go to lunch with them or hang out with their families. But I think something happens sometimes in front of the cameras. They feel an obligation have a certain talking point to be a certain way. I do think there are good people all on both sides of the Isle, who generally are driven by their faith, their own moral compass didn't they genuinely believe in and that they want to make a difference in a positive way? I think that's the minority and I think, a lot of other people on the hell for a lot of other reasons, or they go there with good intentions, but they get caught up in the whole thing I mean I'm. Firstly, a fan of the idea of discussing term limits. I think America should have that conversation. It would require amending the constitution, which is not easily done. You see, I don't know, I think a lot of people get there and they get enamoured of the whole thing in its changes that several members of the media will. How do you think the media climate has contributed to this so if it used to be the acid forever that people say, of your present. What would you do I'd say basically make it that I thought repairs lines

best. Make it to the Washington DC is relevant here? Wants you don't care? Who is the president, your care whose in Congress, because they're not bothering you all the time but the media, because we cover this of incessant limbs were on top of it all the time. How much are we magnifying the the conflict and making the conflict wars as opposed to helping to get people behind the news that they're saying now, I think sometimes we have to be very careful not to take the debate, because I think both sides will put it up air and there's histrionics about this or that and you get the press releases or the releases from the congressional offices or the two. Is there a likeness of the end of the world, and I know it's not because I voted on this before you know. This is not the end of the world, so I think we tried it like I say when I go through a script and I see too many adjectives I wanna take those out like I don't wanna, be so descriptive and hyperbolic about things. I think that we have a responsibility to present things, and sometimes if a story has been super overheats were like, you know what we're doing a full gas segment on that going to read it and tell people about in the story, but we're not devoting five or ten minutes to it, because it's not something that rises to the level of that in reality, and I think it's the best approach.

The difference so since no even covering a very polarize period. American history are you, after Mr Kerr pessimistically where the country is going. I'm always optimistic. You know me, I'm very polly and people will say at times so I mean there's a great book out a few years ago, called implosion by Jo Rosenberg and was very interesting as he talks about times where a country has seemed irreparably fractured. You think about the civil war and other periods, and it was. It was very good, but for me to go back and read when things seem so crazy right now to say, like our country has been warmly divided places before and we have found ways he says mostly through religious revival. We found ways to come back to our humanity into each other and you don't want a tragedy to have to be the way the country comes back together, but there have been examples through history, where we ve been in a much worse place them in someone caning someone to death. On the second floor, essentially I mean it has been crazier as bad as it, seemed now and we ve come back from that. We have re united many times. I think I'll always think that there is good ahead Joe. I do have one final question for only ask you in your free peaceably. I see young up incomers one again,

the journalism wanna get Mcgovern politics, what those would be, but if you actually When a hydrogen and brings answer you have to be available, subscribers subscribe, had another daily wired, icon click subscribing near the end of our conversation. There, though, shambling thanks a lot for seven. I really appreciate your book in finding the bright side. Vote should go pick it up right now. Thank you great viewing? The bench of Euro shows Sunday Special is produced by Jonathan executive producer. Jeremy boring associate producer map is club edited by Donovan. Felt audio is mixed by might call me there and make up his by just one of their title graphics. My Cynthia angle, the bench Shapiro show Sunday Special, is a daily wire production, copyright daily wire, twenty nineteen.