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Shelby Steele | The Ben Shapiro Show Sunday Special Ep. 105


Author, columnist, and documentarian Shelby Steele has been a leading scholar on race in the nation for decades. A strong advocate for the civil rights movement of the 1960s, Steele promotes individual liberty and freedom. However, modern racial movements and policies, he says, have done more harm than good for the cause of equality. Increasing dependence on the government has undermined the cause of liberty. Steele, along with his son Eli, have recently released a new documentary, “What Killed Michael Brown?”, an investigation into the 2014 Ferguson, Missouri shooting, just as George Floyd’s death rocked the nation. The film has been labeled as controversial in some unexpected ways. Shelby joined the show today to share the full story, as well as discuss the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement and organization, and the reason President Trump and his supporters are so often labeled as racist. 


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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Freedom is not that interesting and black America once interesting. Is this enormous power that befell us in the sixties? America owned up due to its past events. The past year have elevated the national conversation around raise two degrees of tunnels not seen for a generation are, Today is no stranger to those conversations and has been a key. you're in a scholarship of race relations for decades shall be steel around author. Missed and document refill make our steel is an advocate for individual freedom and liberty and has been a strong proponent of the civil rights movement of the nineteen sixty four. Just this reason that movement, which was built down the individual has been perverted. He says I move toward government dependent welfare and affirmative action rooms have only further racial device. He argued These believes in his writing, including the popular Buff, Whitefield, blacks and whites together, destroyed the promise of the civil Rights Europe now
in your fellow at the Hoover institution still recently produced a documentary in collaboration with his son, filmmaker Eli, steel titled. What killed Michael Brown? It's an investigation the two thousand fourteen Ferguson, misery, shooting justice. George Woods, TAT, rock the nation at the time this recording steel, was embroiled in a controversy with Amazon over the release of the film without any clear basis for their decision. Amazon, views to distribute the documentary there have since been needed. Elements in historic will have to wait, see out all plays out. In the end, our conversation, Shelby details his struggles with Amazon and the journey he has gone through to get this important fill me Seal and I also discuss the rise in the black lives matter, movement and organization in the region President Trump and his supporters are so often labelled racist.
And welcome, as is the bench parachute son, is better more so pleased to welcome professor shall be steal. The only way to get access to the end of our conversation. We do bonus questions at the end. The only way to get access to that part of the conversations member had an over to daily, where it can become a member you'll have access to all the full conversations that every one of our awesome get shot. health ass! Much for joining Michel really appreciate it. Will thanks almost we're having me so for folks who don't know your background. Maybe can talk a little bit about your transformation. Issues of race, because when you are younger you really, were more racial. Radical. You talk in many of your books about your use on race and how they morphed overtime. Maybe can talk a little bit about their journey. I was born into a civil rights. Family? My my parents are met, as founding members of CORE Congress of racial equality. Cargo in the forties.
I was a core baby, so grew up in the civil rights. millions that world demonstrations and so forth I went on demonstrations as a toddler, so that That was, I was always aware of the issue of race, and this was again when I was a kid- was deep. Segregation everywhere crossed America and so on, that was was very was very aware of that and by the time I got to college black our had begun to emerge black to take on new militancy and identified with that, and I still do Patrick Henry is miles and whether you will give me liberty or give me death and if you won't allow men- and I can't come to the table- I care
lay with every with everyone else then I will read Dennis Revolution time, and so I got to that. sixties was the leader, my students, stood near my college and we took over the president's office and we we did all the things that militant students did back in the era of March, you through all the details, but I graduated in college. I want to work in the inner city when governments sponsored the programme how many programs they were everywhere? I work in about three or four of them for about three or four years I began to see corrupt I began to see people using the circumstance of poverty as a means to personal ends, and people started to come
the working Mercedes, Benz and two out of the poverty programme. That was my by the time I left there. I had pretty much lost my innocence regarding property work and I went to graduate school and getting a little much more traditional life from there, but I began to feel that the militancy was hurting us more than helping us It is very good to have a very strong commitment to one's identity ones who identity and and and to be proud and and all its sort of thing, but that's not an end. That's that's! That's good but you have to become competitive in the modern world watch your language
in poverty. No matter what your identity is, and so we can clear and clear, as I saw marched through graduate school and began my my career as an academic that knew it was time to grow up and join America rather than then fight America that my future it was with America and also by this time one very important thing did happen. I call this the great confession and then is there. in the sixties, in the in the MID 60s, when the civil rights bill passed in sixty four America is effectively confessed to colluding for four centuries was in horrific, evil
but from President Johnson on Down America confessed to that in the sixties owned up to it, and I think it The most transformative moment in all american history. By far and we ve only just begun to really stand the the fall out from that confession. The kind of precious that's introduced into society wait guilt, certainly being being one of them, but I did B. I did become aware that that America, this miraculous There was going to actually admit what they done and twelve corrected, None of this happened anywhere else in all of the human and in human history, but it happened in America and so I don't think we ve given ourselves credit for that
and but I saw it, I saw a fundamental change and that changes only broadened and deepen. Since then It is a very we live in a very different world today. Is not a time for me to be black. And thou raised my fist. This is the time to get busy and start a business or go to school prepared to join the modern world and and live in a free democracy and open society in which we can we have now for them first time, the opportunity to begin to live, not as men of a razor beleaguered race, but as individuals
human beings who are free to pursue their aspirations as they wish. I feel very fortunate to have lived through this transformation from the dark days of segregation to the America that that is now open before me, so I can only ask you why it is that, while this transformation has occurred in it, it's. He is on every objective level that a transformation has occurred in american life. Why? It seems so hard for so many people to accept the transformation has occurred. Don't ask about that in just one. Second, is politics of stressing out of stressing me out. My kids are stressing me out, and this is why I need a mattress made just for me. There's nobody on the planet like you, and why would you buy a generic mattress for everyone else? He looks like has a quiz. It takes two minutes to complete. It matches your body type and sleep preferences to the perfect mattress for you, while you're a side sleeper a hot sleeper with you like a plush or firm bed with you
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He caught a basically writing essays in which they talk about in tragedy that happen in nineteen fifteen in then immediately fast forward to twenty twenty and act as though there were no intervening events. How is it that the debt has become intellectually credible? It seems so perfectly obvious that things have radically changed since the nineteen sixty racism is the worst in an american life, and it is the thing that, if your call the racist, It can literally finish your career, whether its justified or not much Americans and poor racism at this point, and yet it is still the treated the issue of racism is still treated as those systemic as the most Americans secretly harbour racist feelings, and you talk before about shifting definition of system itself. Maybe can talk a little bit about why you think that racism is still considered such major part of american life, despite the transformational change, occurred, a be happy for one reason when there was this great confession that I mentioned, and America are up to its past and and
we created a war on poverty and we created all sorts of social programme, public housing, welfare. So, for the? What became clear one at one of the offshoots of that confession was that victimization, our victimization black victimization at the hands of broader America became our power. It was the first time american history. We had any, we had power to wield in, american life because America itself had confessed. So we had that moral authority for the first time in american life, and it became up Mary source of power in society, we could. We could claim racism and worker
Erica say that already admitted the racism and so it it became we began to believe in it. The tragedy of this too, that that victimization be became. I've been became a centre of all. We are you wanna make blah blacks, black personal angry. Tell him that not a victim its intolerable that here that, because again, the idea that we are victims is are I'm trying to do power into two american society. Henderson at the New York Times, is simply ran. forcing the all the theory of ICT black victimization is power. She just say: look at all this victimization look at what you owe us look at work, you must follow our lead. Morally look how immoral you were.
Boy, that's a lot of power. It has transferred, armed our entire educational system, its we political correctness, It had a term is how determinism impact. So, even though we are now free it is not that interesting and black America once interesting. Is this enormous power that befell us in the sixties America owned up to its past, and that's where we protect and the entire grievance industry in America is based is is based on that you owe us are victim. Nation- is our ticket to ride. It is our authority in american life. You have to come to us. One of the difficult things is too to tell a group that never had any power. Suddenly they have a kind of moral power is difficult to accept.
that moral power they now have is killing them is hurting no very difficult point to make that they look at me and they say, oh, my god, that you giving up you walking away from what we fought for. We ve finally have the power to make universities get rid of the S. Eighty test we can. We can do all sorts of things that we never could do before, and you want us to drop that well, I do because the it about the thing about victimization is power is that you become your own animal. You victimize yourself in the long run, and get nowhere and saw after sixty years now of using victimization s power blackmail is farther behind White America than we were in the fifties. When I was a kid when we-
When I was growing up so this power of victimization has turned on us and energy is choking. Is at this point when breaks my heart go to care. So you see young black is an huddled oftener, the black power this like our latin and black lives and all tat sort of struggling uses pave was struggling to keep victimization alive as power as the power and the black So why do you think it is that so many members of the White community tat have gone along with this. I mean that it would be one thing to say your back in nineteen sixty five, that huge swathes of Americans had acknowledged their guilt because they had in fact been complicit in racism as Gordon nineteen. Eighty four Osborne twenty years after the Civil Rights ACT and I frankly known Rachel guilt, because I believe that I have acted in racially intolerant ways, but you see huge swathes.
particularly young White Americans, going along with this and an brow beating and and browbeaten others engaging in Maoist struggle sessions in which they confessed their own guilt for complicity in a systemically racist system. What would you think is the attraction for white. seconds to go along with the narrative where they are inherently victimized. What happened to white man, when they want America confessed. It's it's it's wrong doing is that America endured at that moment a tremendous loss of Mars. a third when you it's just human one, when you confess I did it all right? I'm sorry were well. Ok. Now you will pay a price
and in that that is, and that is what happened to Latin America is that they they were judged to be racist there. They had colluded with evil, and so now they lived under the accusation that they were racist and that they had been a part of this, and so they meant they didn't made have absolutely nothing to justify our feeling guilty whatsoever. It white guilt has, connection whatsoever to personal feelings in is a is a circumstance that you are living in a society that does not trust you that has this against the whole of this history against you. and so what do? What? What Weis then have to struggle foreign and have since the six? This is their innocence aberration.
Approving, are not me, I'm not a racist, and that that need to prove is what blacks take advantage of. Ok, then, then, do this and do that and so forth, and so on and change your here and in the stone age opera, broken and there have another so forth and so on? And what do it? Because they want that innocence? They want to be able to say look, I supported front of action. I have I'm all for let's say let's say I support let's have different colored faces on it and everything we do so that we can prove. We are innocent of that historical accusations that we are evil, racist, anything anything to get away from there and so you know that were one race begins to enable another raised, we ever sort of us
Biotic connection, a white exploiting blacks, all over again in all this time, to capture recapture some innocence and power thanks for selling themselves out to guilty weights Do you still have the illusion that victimization is is their power, and so for so it's a gets to be a kind of sad symbiosis that we are Caught in and we never honestly talk about it but we're all nervous about we're all nervous and- and we all hope for the best I think, but it is by History- is powerful, in America is has a very unique history were far far ahead of much of the mess rest of the world in this regard,
but we have a long way to go and teams there is something else that has happened here too, and that's not just that there is an attempt by both feel guilty, whites and and and some black Americans to push for a particular policy prescriptions and sort of guinea's by their there's. Something now that's going on. It's completely, I think unprecedented, which is that your only declared to be not re. As for a certain period of time, if you acknowledge racism, so in other words, if you say as white person, I'm not racist, I'm colorblind did I I see everybody's an individual. This is in fact used as evidence of your racism, whereas a view then declare that you are in fact a racist. By dint of the cap your skin and through racial, a centralisation. Then you are not racist, but you are also races because you just acknowledged the erases to complete catch point. You there's literally no way for White Americans to escape the charges of racism. You admit the racist, in which case we say. Ok, we'll lose your honest enough to admit your racist, but that means are kind of a racist has just admitted it or you wanted.
You're on racism, in which case we absolutely one hundred percent, no, the your racist, that's right and that power the power to put whites in that position is what is is. Were black powers is parliament comes from our from our moral authority, as victims is historical victims, and so we enjoy so squeezing whites and end in this in this impossible, this impossible circumstance, but it helps again. It obviously. Whites do not have at this moment in America, I'm speaking Braun broad terms. Your wife do not have the moral confidence to resist this to say: hey COM, erases, whatever you want, I believe this I stand by
This, in our argue on the on the terms of whatever it is. I stand by, I'm not gonna, be I'm not going. blackmailed intimidated about this, but about simply being white and simply having a connection to people in the past. So why does not mean that I am evil and that I am a racist. If you can't accept that too bad I simply do not in America have the more confidence to do that. To say that, that's why we're stuck when white begin to rediscover their confidence and accept the fact that they are not racists and that they want to treat everybody as individuals and they practice that. Raised pound the over black power will be over, we'll have to take victim,
they should go home. It doesnt work anymore right now. This whites Morning, Amazon Castle, my mother, the film still coming out with just as they gave ten million dollars to black lives manner and other left wing black groups, Well, as white guilt, they don't they don't believe in the money that they. did they have not it'll care what they do that with the money, They are buying their own innocence. They're saying our brand is not racist. If you give money to shall be steal, you just even put, as is his film up on your platform, your big it you're racist, your horrible person so for well, I suffer today from
The lack of confidence that ways here that now is a big problem. In my life, in my work I have some who grew up fighting against segregation. Finally, I guess it all. Over again, Second, I want to ask you about exactly that sort of turn where so many of the things of the past that were considered to be the beacon hope. The things that we aspire to as a society have now become the obstacles they the enemies that we have to get rid of in pursuit of anti racism. In the pernicious definition of the Ebro Candies and Robin the angels we get. So then, just one second, first, it's Halloween this month. Policy genius would like to mark the occasion by making something less scary. Life insurance shopping for life. Insurance can seem like a daunting task, but policy genius makes it easy to combine a cutting edge insurance market place with help from licence experts to say. time and saving money. Right now you could say fifty percent or more by using policy genius to compare life insurance when the shopping for our policies
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if these, in the end, the early sixties, the these ideals that that we build your statues, Martin Luther King, not because we agree with his economic philosophies, but because, specifically of his vision of individuals being treated as individuals, in that that is, that is what school children learn its. Why he deserves Zone day mean this is this is why people celebrate Martin Luther king on a broad scale across the United States, and yet we have seen that the Woke culture has put so far, that individualism is now seen as a as a hallmark of white culture. There is a dead display at the National Psmith Zone The National Museum of african american history, in which they declared that aspect of white supremacy, enemy in culture, included things like being timely. Having work ethic believing that you should they should delay gratification. I believe the ism, a belief in problem solving. That seems to me that if you want Anybody to succeed. These are just things that they need to engage in, but according to
the Smithsonian and National Museum of african american history. These were aspects of of white supremacy, and so we have to abolish all of our traditional motions of cause and effect of good behaviour and bad behaviour in pursuit belief that individual actions don't matter at all in all problems can be tracked up too broad societal discrimination. This is a desperate, wait and see Social America is for innocence of racism They will go to these links to to advertise to try to advertise their own innocence to the world. These are people entire you, as you said that probably have no personal guilt whatever and yet the their whole politics their whole. Orientation towards american life is it is is around again victimization.
and their need for innocence. They just will do anything to to reclaim The is. I remember when I was in my black melted stages as a kid in college I granted white man, one night in the hotel lobby Just for the heck of it. I told him that he should give me point five dollars right then, and there, because he was white and he was a racist, any needed to pay off and of course he gave me about forty well
It is tempting they really imagination. Those while I can't I can't really fan- is into something and open up put out a shingle and innocence here come in the euro will yet we ve got a sale today, but it's not funny is tragic and a White America's is lost to this. The the young urges preoccupied with this, this idea of establishing their innocence of
of this evil and people like Hannah Jones deserve smoking and smiling in and the fact that the puppeteer pulling pulling all strings someday way to going to wake up. God knows where it is. I thought it would have happened by now. I thought they would have gotten tired of being jacked up like this, but apparently not so, if you're in there, if you, if you're, trying to sell truth, if you're trying to point to hear the truth, we'll Black went through for centuries of oppression, you go through that you'd when you come out of it. Finally, as we did in the sixties, you got the under developed. They didn't have Harvard for us back in the days of segregation. We we we could now, doubt that that was our big liability when we worked in the freedom when we stepped into freedom
is that we needed desperately development, education, economic development, we needed to join Eric and become a part of the great american experiment and and fine parity with all other groups? That's what we needed. What are we? We were so drunk on our power as victims. That we do this day, sixty years later, cling to that victimization and we hate any minorities who doubt veto claimed to of it vision, your uncle Tom and that's the end of as the interview you're you're cancelled, So we're we're we're gonna tell again the people who think they are helping blacks, I simply re colonizing, blacks and now blacks live.
a sort of facilitate white innocence,. Rather than actually move ahead on their own and become independent individuals functioning in a free society. Worse were we don't have the the cultural history we never had to deal with freedom it when we were up now. We know that freedom is our biggest problem. Now, not racism. Racism, so far down the list its. It means nothing, we're afraid of free will to do with freedom, how to live in how to make it work force. That's why that's our real world challenge and again. Whites who were learning from our Anasazi rolling over four for black victim is They are the enemy because they they diminishes to nothing, but what sort of icons, if facilitate their innocence and
power all over again. I guess I guess history, history does repeat itself. In that sense, so you talked about working in the social welfare system and I was in the nineteen sixty there is real push for a sort of racial reparation via social welfare programmes in the great society programmes. The idea expressed by I'll be J is that well now the the sort of barriers have been removed if you had all the runners at the start, wine and one of the runners twenty yards behind the start line that somehow we had to find a way to get the person twenty yards behind the star line up to the starlight US with social welfare programmes were four, but it seems that In many ways the social welfare programmes actually inhibited the ability for that run or to ever catch up, and that there are What a minority groups in the United States who have started off twenty yards behind the start line compared to what America many those minority groups now routinely outperform White Americans in terms of income, including many groups of african, whence Nigerian Americans, for example, outperform white, american
in terms of income. So maybe you can talk a little bit about social if our programmes, but were there, was just well intentioned. It went wrong or was it day what what exactly happened with the social welfare programmes? I didn't help achieve this very specifically. What happened was because whites were longing for their innocence. What way did was literally steal away from black people agency. Over their own fate, their own lives. L B J said put your life in my hands. I will give you an upward bound programme will expand welfare payments. I will have school bussing. I will have public housing that all in all, I am the actor. I am the agent of your uplift of your fate. you you're nothing but a sort of
cipher for my innocence, we we blacks, hitting not quite knowing how to handle freedom yet born into that. And so thy soul away, we put agency, we said. Ok, you be the agent of my uplift. You knew you write, you did commit you're ugly, you were racist offered so now Can redeem yourself by uplifting me. Well, when you look at that you giving away agency to your own up what you're putting it in somebody else's aunt when all of human history has. Then worked, you don't give up agency. and then think you're gonna summer miraculously get get? It You want a that. You will hear what we should have said. We should set
white American to Lyndon Johnson? Thank you, but no thanks! You worry about your innocence. We'll worry about our development will focus as individuals. We will become better educated and he will outcome PETE you I don't want your help. We have our own honour, our own sense of dignity and self possession. We fail to do that. End of many many many many many and I mean many individual blacks did do that. And they are doing their thriving today, and we see them everywhere in every walk of life, making the point that, if and wants to really take charge of one's faith and overhead you're free to do that. Today, in America, you can become literally the president. If that's what you want to do. You can become, as the ceo of a major cooperation you can become
an artist. You can become a veterinarian. You can do whatever you want and the government will will never ever under any circumstances, be able to Therefore you that's it! It's a is a kind of sick, again symbiotic bond between that that came out of this great confession in in the sixties than in both groups got blinded and made a very quick down and dirty deal less, I think of amended chances with great society as it down and dirty deal. He said, basically, I need the. I need the the innocence to to to have legitimacy as the present people just keep the government, the men, and so I need that. So I don't come give you all these programmes, even though they are.
do anything whatsoever about but teach you corrupt, embroil you in corruption. I work in those programmes to three years I never seen so much corruption. In my life, it was just wide open. You have to fight for your life, had to get out of there or sink into there, and I was lucky Verloc it to good parents. Talk the Latin finally found my way out of their, but that's what we we we we now have to do. We have to get away from it. We have to get away from my symbiotic, released shift away people. I don't want to have any I want to be. obeying I want to be a citizen of the United States. I want to go, to all other human citizens. What erases? I don't care! So, let's talk for a second about. Why does
that so many yet you mentioned there so many prominent black Americans with wild levels of success there. So many black Americans who are middle class and above all the d the media tend to portray only Yo Poverty and and suffering in the black community. You, your pals routinely talk about how to be black and America means to suffer in America as though the average income for a black household in stages and fifty thousand dollars or as though the vast majority of of black Europeans are living in abject poverty which simply isn't true. Why is it then, that we don't see more black American saying exactly what you're saying, which is. I've been able to make my way in the society. If you make the right decisions, you can make your way in this society to instead, it seems like, with increased levels of prominence. Many black American speak more loudly about how America is is racist? We ve mentioned call headings
several times in this oppression who went to a top, universities should obviously has been granted the keys to the car over at the New York Times. You care in Attica at the Washington Post was the daughter of african immigrants doing the same thing. You see people at the top of the of the entertainment industry, Lebron James. Does this making hundreds of millions of dollars per brok, Obama became president of the United States and then suggested that America was still struggling with systemic racism and and may come without Ferguson, misery, which will discuss in a second that at the time I thought to myself. he's literally ignoring the facts of the case in order to make these particular comment. So why that we don't see more prominent black Americans but so many prominent members of other minorities, in America say to their kids and to their compatriots, which is what a great country- and we can absolutely rise in. This kind The reason is they don't believe in themselves. Believe in black people, I believe in black people
They should be. They should do exactly what you what you just said. What you're talking about? That's our only future you only you only get what you make. yourself, you you were the that's the obligation of freedom. Is you have to make something of yourself, but they simply one of the problems in black american life. This comes from for centuries of oppression is faith less ness in your group. Your group was oppressed. The somebody's he'll was on the neck.
Would that denigrated there were demonized as part of the formerly oppress persons. Struggle is to have faith in precisely those people ones on people who come from all of that to love them and have faith in them. The biggest Black America is faith less this we don't believe in ourselves. We don't believe will be able to compete with. But all the ugly bigotry, some of the white past we on some. Secret level where we don't admit to ourselves- even believe that and don't and and and therefore lack the faith to take our lives into our own hands. It makes something and make a life
We say to protect ourselves, that's a fool's game. This is a racist world, racist society, that's to work hard, and so that's that's! That's for fools that in a white man, those are uncle. Tom's white men always MA has made Europe believes in them. Well, you know we have to face this problem of faithlessness and we have to raise our children ready. We have. We have gone Lately? Are you reading to your children? Are you teaching them it? Are you developing them? Intellectually? Are you develop developing them their academic skills, their their interpersonal skills? The values? Are you building strong, independent people? we'll be able to be responsible for their own advancement,
you're doing that if you're, not yours then racism, you're, contributing to I've of inferiority struggle it we have a backwards. and it is, it is heartbreaking. We we we'll do. Another problem is that we live in such an absolutely wealthy society. Societies can give us off. figure I keep hearing is the last fifty years that the Americans spent twenty to twenty. Three trillion dollars on social programmes. There's a lot of bait to tempt me away from this sort, this more rigorous self Parliament agreed to the idea that I can manipulate maneuver game my way ahead and so forth in a wealthy society, you can do that, and America woke, who has got the wealth to continue to dump it on
People, as is the Amazon ten million dollars they wake up and give it give that a well I'm on the wrong side of this, get any of that, not a dime. They cancel me who sent Let's talk about in just one second out to ask you about the documentary, what killed Michael Brown, that is, and be available somewhere, apparently not Amazon will get to that in just one second. But first, let's talk about censorship on social media side what you can do about it left wants to silence and remove any boy said they don't like twitter and Facebook. Is there supposed to be open platform? I don't need their content moderators acting like yeah pets.
The New York Times, instead of letting those social media sites revoke their right to free speech. How about revoking their right to your data? Now you could just deactivate all your social media accounts, but that would be giving the left just what they wanted in the first place. Instead use Express BP and the way I do if you ever wondered how free to access sites like Facebook make their money well attract. Researchers, video history, everything you click on, and then they sell your valuable data when you use Express bbn, you anonymize much of your online presence by hiding that ip address that makes your activity more difficult to trace and sell to advertisers and expressly p and could not be easier to set up. You just tap one button on your phone or computer, and your now protected express Vps, also crypts, one hundred percent for data to help protect you from hackers and internet bad guys. So now is the time to say no to censorship. Take back your online privacy today had expressly peons out comments.
When I visited my special link, you get an extra three months of express european service for free again, that's ex pr. Yes, as Vps outcome, Slash Ben expressly peons outcomes like spending. It started. Ok, so you now referred to this documentary that you made what killed Michael Brown. I had a chance to watch a large segment of it last night. It is in incredibly incisive and an emotionally devastating, because it erodes on some very serious issues. So what was the impetus behind making a documentary about the Michael Brown shooting we wanted to debunk. This idea of victimization is power. Michael Round, the reason Michael Brown would become so explosive them and, more recently, a George Floyd and so forth and others. The reason these events become so explosive is because they represent, they seem to morally give moral authority, the blacks as victims. This
to reinforce our whole black pathology would cease, immigration as our great power, I got a white cap with a shoots in kills a black teenager there. It is that's that's for centuries of racism right there. You owe me, and I will give gradual you're illnesses, but you'll have to pay for it all of a sudden every by the presidency, that it states the attorney General United States. Everybody is in Ferguson, Missouri anguish. over the the the shooting of Michael Brown Black black teenager. Well there there because it just route it just flows over with black power. if he is Michael Brow was really shot and killed out of a racist, racial animals. They think of all the power that redounds then to all of black American.
We can what we can just sort of work that we can work that aim for ten more years, and so all of these events, like this job for joy of George flights over there all they're all this sort of that. This temptation is. This we everybody knows powers to be had in these events. Who's gonna get power and, of course, black sir. Here it is. We ve now had sixty years of victimization being our primary source of power, and so anyway, we want to. We wanted to go in and show exactly that corruption and and point to some of the damage that and then we wanted to look towards the end of the film. At some positive activities that are going on in the black humility, their people doing some miraculous work we interviewed, ass. Well, ass. His church
right and in the woodland areas, the of Chicago, where the murder rate is over them over the roof. We talk to former former drug dealers. We way we looked at a public housing. We will look at all against the offshoots of this sort of thing in with the within it, too a point. The way ahead, I particularly like the the ended Where were we? I go back to my check, my father's childhood home in Kentucky We- and I remember reminisce of these people. My grandfather was actually born a slave, not my great grandfather. My literal grandfather was actually boy slavery, and then they came forward and CAP Nelson Kentucky and
my father, how he from the age of fourteen on was on his own and had to make his way in the world and teach himself to read and write and and so one of the honor, that's selfless struggle on the part of black Americans are greatness, comes from those people. They did. They didn't go around begging for white goodwill. They all they wanted was don't discriminated against me. I don't want any. My father hated the idea public as it thought it was this ticket to Hell. They could see that and many other blacks and enable a dead, and it will end we rejected it, but that white guilt is is is hard to. Maybe they rejected it. But
their kids pretty soon they begin they be to be bought off one by one by one by one hears uneasy road for you You look up in urine urine under the under the power of a people who are look it's the problem with wake up social programmes. It look out after white power, wiper, white innocence and white power, and you become just again a cypher me to that end, at the end of the film we try to really get into that, and I think I have some fails and moving moments. At least they were moving may well when we found them. So now you found out that day what Amazon won't even offer the film for foresail. Is that that wheelings our right now, the the sent us a letter. That said,
Not only will we not do it, but don't try to resubmit. Don't change that! I don't do anything. We don't want it ever so those as well to make a statement certain friends of mine. been cancelled from twitter think thanks rearranging themselves and this again we ve got this this often cancelling phenomenon that that I'm going to cancel evil. I'm going to cancel that some pernicious in the name of the good will? What is what's the good too, to Amazon? The good is black black lives matter, which is a well I'm, not I'm not going to waste time getting into two what their, but, but I think they are completely on the wrong track. Then they will keep her
smile celebrating ourselves as victims, forevermore muslim, and ask you to go on the wrong track era and actually describe what you think of the black eyes matter movement, because obviously it has had this massive impact on our politics and we ve seen corporations going across the countries in the NBA decide to dedicate entire guidelines on national broadcasting, their slogan hearing change, jerseys on there at the back of the Jersey can put the names of people who have allegedly been unjustly killed by the police. Are you seen every major politician pay lip service to black lives which is a semantically overloaded phrase, American meet a few things, one the obviously true statement that black lives matter, because they do it can mean the movement which is the sum in that America systemically racists and their black Americans. Are it unique risk of bee murdered in the United States, which is certainly not true from the police. It may be true, statistically, but it really has very little to do with White Americans doing them
unfortunately, and I and then it could mean the black lives matter, organisation, which is actually just a NEO marxist from croup. But I wanna get your thoughts on black matter, which again has become the sort of tautological statement, and you have to say it and if you don't say it, obviously means the racist. Well, they break my heart. The first of all make me sad to have lived through what I've lived through and see what Black America has stood for Firefox I think, of my father's generation and earlier Many women who survived the most horrific sort of oppression, violent, murderous oppression for centuries and accomplices. I see our young people
using that history victimization to hide away from the challenges of freedom that we face today is heartbreaking, for somebody might see there, You finally got a chance to do anything you want and you Oh you all you gotta do is they talk about victimization well, one day when I talk about systemic racism, and so for I call it compensatory racism is a a faith and racism that we wish emphasis on racism, because the reality is racism has declined radically. That's why it's just not there anymore,
And so we we have to come up with a new terms like systemic and structural racism and software, to bring back that all oppression that we endure for centuries That said, we now all we bring that back. We say now no, who we really are, as black people. That's not who we really were. We were the people who fought for freedom and finally want it, but we don't get credit for that. We don't give ourselves credit for that. We we won. We want more, we want whites to give us more junk and, of course, they're rich, and they can do that. And they do that, and it will also then were inflated in our illusions and Thank you. You know. We think people like me, for example, are just hopeless
over the uncle towns. Well, as its again is heartbreaking, it said it said see. Young people sell themselves out that way to to. exhibit that level of faithlessness in their own abilities to develop and overcome. I want to see him see what you will always s, and what was your great point average? What are you doing to develop yourself? Flagstones have the drop out rate and the lowest great point average of any student group in America. After fifty years of affirmative action,. What will we? We now have a bill. The pay we're gonna have to pay pay this bill. And you know I don't know what generation will will finally get there, but at some point, wait: you're gonna turn around and say you you got. We would
we're, not enabling you anymore, link black people as theirs as become an american habit. Reflex that that we do again, because we just keep needing wanting this innocence wanting the power that comes with the legitimacy that comes from from being innocent monstrously innocent of racism. So we'll give you to give you more provinces. Give you this give you give you give you as you sink as you as you sink into this faithlessness in yourself. Well, as you can see, is kind of a stalemate that we ve got going on here sure how it will break. I know, will at some point, but I hope soon sooner or later
in a second, I want to ask you about your opinion of the Obama. Administration is obviously we ve had a black president for two terms. One too overwhelming victories, and I think you know entered office with high hopes by most Americans that this was going to be, maybe the final stage in the transition away from thinking racially in the country, countrymen. He sort of campaign is when I read blue states, where the United States I'm both bad and both black and white obviously, and in my own ancestry- and I can bring the country together and up now and get your assessment of the Obama Ministration of Moroccan Michel is obviously a very prominent political figure in her own right in one second. First, they have to tell you that
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today already so, let's talk about the Obama administration and Morocco, Burma, as I say, for for everybody, even people like me who I vote for Brok of honor. I thought that he was a bad candidate. I thought that he would be of the radical left politically me out, but I thought that he basically campaigned on a bunch of warm D. The slogan hearing, but even for a photo mood and vote for government in back and it was easily inspiring thing for the United States, which is majority white country, to elect a black president after our history Of slavery and Jim Crow Logistic, that symbol is an inspiring thing. It didn't appear to end that way. The Poles race relations, they really markedly decline during the Obama administration, even preceding the Trump administration. What do you make of of the Bomb administration of Barack Obama as I as a figure and now Michelle Obama, whose widely perceived to be that maybe the future of the Democratic Party. Brok. Obama was a war
They are a perfect sort of white fantasy. And he was elected you entirely, I think entirely because he was black man. some an end. He was, as Joe Biden once said. He was clean. I guess he showers every day and he spoke eloquent english so he was, he was in other words, he was in that kill us no vision for the country. Did he ever articulated no set of policies, coherent policies that would reflect some some important vision for the country. He just was a nice way. a kid who wore white people realise that some level wouldn't do much of anything except people?
in view of the White House, so that way, America, say, we're innocent of racism. We are redeem. This is redemption, and so was he will abide? Was small player in a White self promotion, all sort of historical event. That's all. He was again he couldn't day to day what is vision was for for society. Nor could all the white people voted for. They don't know what he stood for, not even stand for it. That's the again! That's the point! Need he didn't get away get in of his message, which is good
I'm a black person whose go beyond the one of the most powerful man in the world and that's how innocent America is. That's how wonderful America is racially. They overcome that shameful history of slavery and so forth, and now they have a black man in the way of acting, very active wonderful. What did it mean in reality is a black somehow more equal today than they were before. Have they somehow caught up with whites and in the air Thirdly, educationally otherwise. No nothing except the whites white can say. We. we're innocent of racism. We we elect than a black a black person. Someone I think it has to be seen in the context of white guilt. Is, is a white guilt president
beginning and the end Michel same. I don't see, I don't see much difference there. The day there that's the game, they both play. Just a little bit every now and then a edginess around this round. The racist you just keep their born of Phinis with with militant blacks, but no leadership, no sense of of what ails black America how it has to be overcome. None of that, so no one ask your opinion of the of the Trump administrations venom. to talk about racism surrounding president Trump and add these supposed innate racism of the american people in electing Trump in two thousand and sixteen Joe Biden suggested that he's running almost entirely to repudiate trumps personal racism. What what do you make of Trump as a figure from selection
and I and the Trump Administration twelve is pretty much what it claims to be You know he's he he was fixed, thinks he's a cat, I'm MR fix it president any does he fixed any number of any number of. Things, but he has no. He has knows he is vulnerable because The left in America is is driven by way guilt defined by white, go in and you that couldn't be farther away from word, Donald Trump, as he does this, not in this sort of the He offers no innocence to wait. America, therefore, he's a racist. That is a big it in his is a regression to oppression, and he once in software and so on. But the fact is this: just a pragmatic approach, Manic sort unimaginative president, who really does fix our trade relations.
what the Chinese? Who changes, because what is done? The Middle EAST, really marvellous, marvellous things that the Obama administration you never got close to doing but again I e has no vision of white innocence and that's what it that's what the left wants today in that's what I'm much of America still wants today. Is this the sort of white innocence and so. I don't know whether we will have to elect another of Burma or not, but at some point there will be there will be blacks who are themselves as human beings that represent the part politics blow. The point of view of the whole nation in a second ask a couple final questions, starting with whether you think that white guilt or or black victimization is going to alleviate first, which which side I in this
of symbiotic racial relationship, we ve talked about, is going to change its behaviour first. But if you actually want to hear shall be steals answers, then you have to add on over to daily wire dot com. You can subscribe over there and hear the end of our Conversation mile shall be seal. As you know, I am a big fan of your work. People should go out, watch the documentary they should purchase all of your books, including way guilt. Really, we share time has been well spent, obey arrived lab admire, you you are your old man, an admiring so much appreciate the men Shapiro show Sunday Special is produced by math. Is Weber executive, producer, Jeremy boring our technical d, There is often even in our assistant director is Why does the associate producer Nick she hit our guests? I get the major editing is by Jim Nickel Audio is mixed. I might call me to air and make up this binding at Geneva
idle graphics, are by Cynthia angle. The Ben Shapiro shows Sunday Special is a daily wire production, copyright, gaily wire, twenty twenty.
Transcript generated on 2020-11-01.