« The Bill Simmons Podcast

A Full-Fledged Jokic-Gasm With Kevin O’Connor and J. Kyle Mann. Plus, Jake Tapper on Post-Trump TV Life.


The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Kevin O'Connor and J. Kyle Mann to discuss Nikola Jokic's MVP-caliber play, his presence on the court, the Nuggets' playoff hopes without Jamal Murray, the era of positionless basketball, and more (2:50). Then Bill talks with CNN's Jake Tapper about what it was like to cover political news in the past year-plus, covering non-Trump topics on 'The Lead With Jake Tapper,' moderating both Democratic and Republican presidential candidate debates, mega-panel TV shows, his new novel 'The Devil May Dance,' and more (1:02:00).

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
The bill. His back ass is presented by Fernando Sports, but great now you can finally bill Simmons. This is forty super boost for Wednesday nights. And be a game here's what we're doing, sons hawks you can bet on whether there will be a forty point quarter from either team incense hawks go to fend off sports book on Wednesday morning. It get the ads and you can bet them and you'll get A really good boost bill, Simmons Podcast, is brought to you by Fanduel sports book, the official sports book of the Ringer and an authorized gaming operator of the NBA. I love being able to bet hoops there for a couple of reasons, easy to use safe and care fast hey, adds but, most importantly, love same game. Parlez love been able to say this team is going. And because this is going to happen in their best players gonna. Well, I'm just gonna better than in the same place. Right now Vandal Letty new users place first bet risk free up two thousand hours just place first, better, I think faded.
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to buy the ringer dot com, as well as the Ringer Podcast network, hope you're, enjoying the ringer verse our nerd culture podcast that people really love rewatch buzz, went up on Monday night. What about Bob? Was it? The greatest therapy movie about time you'll have to listen definitely in the bill Murray later career, comedy apex of what he was doing, because I think it was that and ground out. They read after quick change right before what about Bob was also really good. When I come up on the pod cabinet, honor and Jake how man from the ringer we're gonna break down this edge envy pcs and why we think he is on question. We then they pay, but also why it's been a really special season and some of the things we ve seen some big picture staff, some deep dive stuff.
Really a lot of fun doing that one and their Jake Tapir, who has never been on this podcast before, but we're gonna talk about what life is like in two thousand and twenty one with politics in everything. That is the pod first or chip all right, Kevin Conners. Here, Kyle man is here this Yokich celebration podcast. I think his Mvp is totally justified. The odds have finally swung that way, and I like
this thing near the end of the seas in talking about how big the envy Peter, if he should be, where you may think about, like the gold men, only let big it's the same for every sport and you'd think like a hundred yards dash, it just be gigantic. It should be like a bigger gold medal and some of the other ones is measured. Facets person worth in the NBA is thought it could be like forty pounds, twenty pounds, ten pounds, five pounds and then like the one pounder that you give further Carl Malone lock out season, might does results. We had to give this somebody. It felt like people worth thinking about halfway through the season. Oh shit now than it beats heard. What are we somebody's gonna win this now I feel like yoke edge, has not only earn the VP to me its bordering on like a twenty pound envy, pcs, not don't want to give him the forty pounds, that's for the greatest of all time, that's enough, but it is somewhere between ten and twenty km, you wrote about him for the ringer this week
under rating? How great the season has been for him for sure I would say it should be borderline unanimous now, maybe not quite unanimous but close to it. What the reality is Even when Joanna Bead was considered the favourite yoke, it was neck and neck with him point and now that all these guys of Miss Games Yoke, which has been the only all stars, bladed every single game, the season he's the centrepiece of the wet everything everything damage. On our fancies, Lloyd, more touches than anybody in the league, his eyes, more points per tonne all high volume of players he's defended, more pickin, than anybody else in the entire NBA the seas in accordance second spectrum yoke. Ich does everything for Danbury? Does it every single night? That's why they're competing for on court banjo, it's a if a historic, often season and a very good defensive, sees in Asia. There's no question about it. Yeah everything that can be said is absolutely right. I mean, I think, what is being
maybe not quite appreciated it. To the extent that it should be. Is that historically, he is blurring and in being the torchbearers between like this positional list if you look at the envy peace within the past, we have had a true five. I win the envy p since August Shack in two thousand, but if you look at the volume of what yogurt is doing. He leads the league in passes throne this season with almost fifty one hundred, but he has nine hundred and nineteen pass lead on the next person, that's the biggest gap in the top, fifty so between between spot. So, if you just consider like the volume and efficiency of what he's doing, it's impressed in it Kevin deep position, this basketball thing we're supposed
for all and be a and reselling. I lit a gate a little bit on Sundays. I could we put jet yoke agenda be together. I am against that because its two centres, I do think yoke is a centre at the same time, he's appoint centre and then defensively. I guess, he's a center, but it goes to cause point of, like I don't know a position, skies, more- and this seems to be, the sport were drifting towards an early Noah Yadda says to me: Yadda says the evolutionary shack in so many ways that we talked about over the years and beat his deep. Additional old school centre carries a guard. I dont know if he's necessarily point Guard Jimmy Butler, I'm supposed to is a forward. I guess for I'm Ba purposes, but I dont really. I just feel like he's a perimeter guy. The yoke edge is carrying the torch of this. What is he is it worth? What does he do you, as AEGIS A player is the center. How do you consider him? I think it's like Kyle FED he's just boring the lines.
What, when I think about positions, I think more defence like yogurt, is clearly a centre on defence. He is the big man in defending other bags. He's too defending the screener and pick and roll actions he's the guy near the pain, he's a quote: unquote: big and defense, but on offense he's everything he's anything he's: whatever Denver needs, he pushed up a tonne. A lead on the post? He can run the ball up the floor. You can run off screens, you can run pick and roll. You can screen the pick and roll the no position, and I think you know do you hear players nowadays, like science, has he's just a basketball player There are a lot of guys that don't define themselves by position, and I think over all that you look at the league and some of the towns. We have guys don't be a big I'd. Doesn't let us stop him from shooting threes trouble, and I think that Gaza Carl Anthony towns, for example here
best shooters in the league period. There's no reason to say he's one of the best shooters as a big he's, one of the best shooters period, just from the same way that Yokich, you don't need to qualify. It saying. Oh he's one of the best playmaking bigs, no he's just one of the best playmakers period, and I guess what yoke it really does with the way in which he placed me off and similar for what he does it all. Yet, if you look like, I had at a step- and I pulled specifically for you guys if you look at in you, consider heavy load, heavy usage and then touch time. I went back and compared this season that Yoke itches into Ross and twenty sixteen seventeen o God not to pick on Russian about. If you consider rest usage, that year was forty one point: seven yoke, it's this year's twenty nine point four, but box plus minus yoke. It is eleven point six in Russia's eleven point. One! The kicker here
me is yet what proves the me that yoke is a supercomputer. Is that he does this so quickly, like the bomb moves through him, he doesn't pounder dominate the ball. The big thing here, it's touch time Russ did that on a higher. You said right at a lower bp em at nearly double YE yoke. Itches touch time. So Russ was five point. Seven, eight and yoke is two point: seven, four, so cheese when he gets the ball he makes he makes a great decision almost every single time, and then we talked about the volume of passes. It's just it's. It's unheard of yeah. You think, like I guess, point center, but sometimes offensively when he wants his own stuff. He reminds me a lot of dark. Zach was the first one that pointed that out a couple of years ago, I'm like really dark. They have totally different bodies. Then you watch it and there's there's a lot of dark ass stuff with him like the way you can. Spin. The way that weird shoddy has where, even if there's a guy rain front moment still feels like he can get it off and it so as a good shot. The fight that building
I saw the other day against the club. Rosaria doubled around the elbow honey just slip on into that fade away, far more sheltered ray. But can you gotta get playing your piece he's been so good offensive way that it is actually the picture on Monday it's actually making people think they just have have bigger than their roster between him, and indeed, basically is a realistic to even think you could win forestry play. Our friend ay without going through one of those two guys and then be. If you are going through and there's two guys, you can't play small bog and some, where is he Brooklyn trap? do it against Philly, but ultimately at least they have Deandre at least Claxton Skinny, but still at least a a blake who can be strong, but it's you know they have guys to throw them. But if you look at the west, it makes me think this is
Lakers, when God german right? If they didn't think they could get anything from Marcus all in a play? Our series heralds way too small for yoke adjust. We found out last year, so the german thing was weirdly pivotal for them, but can you expand that peace, because you said some people were telling you that in the league yeah, I mean, I think, Lookit Yogurt in two different ways: they look at him. His answer asian? They see the way in the value that a big man can provide on office by running thanks to him and nobody can pass like yoke it. But the idea, like a ban or democracy bonus and running off and threw them, can present challenges and help improve your office. The flip side of that is that with more bigs like a yoke, Ich Lichen and beat you do if you aren't opposite. Will you have the double yoke ich your screwing yourself. I mean if your doubling a guy like him who, like Thailand, is a computer brain who can locate. Teammates
but even looking in their direction and fire an accurate pass you're in trouble and like the shows in the numbers he scores. One t one points per chance on post steps when he's single coverage, one four points per chance, which is elite when he's double team so That's that one point. Four! It's insane daylight! I don't ever double this person for any circumstance in one of those players that once the great narrate wants, there's a threshold of greatness where they want to double. The brain is like that. Like please double me LUCA. Does that alot actually yoke? It absolutely is that way, though, here I think the second counts he's ready, for he knows if it's a double comes as a former ahead. It's insane watching him in and with that in mind, teams like we saw this in the Lakers versus Nuggets game. When I put Marquesan, in the second half and single covered a lot of the time because they have to resist doubling. So a lot of teams are on. The league are like, okay, with in bead with Yokich. What, if the wolves, get good cat? I mean you have a lot of good bigs Emily there thinking we
need to have a big for this potential series. So you go like for years, we're talking about. Well, do you have a guard stopper for Stefan Kari for Damian Lord, for all these perimeter, guys for Kari now for a lot of teams, it's like well, we also need to have a big two hundred and fifty pound pound guy to battle against Oka. So we don't need a double well. You know this goes back to the, why I think he's worthy of VP. I watch Denver just love watching Yokich, but I watch them and it's like he's reaches. What do you do point of this run? Were you watchin? It's almost like a football team like when the patriots would play the chiefs, like oh shit, that Tiree kill out there. They ve Kelsey underneath I have to double team both of them? What do I do? It's a conundrum right and with Denver is figured out because of his. I also think he's in better shape, which really helps him
but his ability to stand the perimeter and just dissect everything and pick it apart. But then, if the wrong person guarding I'm his ability to go. Take that person download you're saying like I guess you have to single him, but if you single him he's going to score fifty five percent of the time or he's going to get fat, and that what are you do element that to me is the key to and be pieces and where we're watching on fuck. What do you do? How do I stop this that Kyle he's doing this without Jamal. We thought jamaa Mvps open. Again, devor is going to go in a tailspin, I want to say they're better without, but they, but there certainly it hasn't. Set them back at all and if anything shows that put the team on his back a little bit more, which is an empty peace post, do but is it starting to become realistic to you that they could compete and win a couple rounds here, even without MOM Murray? It's kind of goes back to what we talked about with Randall. I do think that, like without Murray Murray,
gives you a lot more variability in that he can get his own shot, and then you know you have him yoke it just the kind of guy that just he's going to hit the, Players when they are with you, their value is going to be different than if they were in another situation and like bronze, like that too. It's just say he's like a motherboard player where you just plug the pieces in and they work, and there aren't many players like that out there and if you look at them, if you look at like the Variety of the ways that you get it done like his shot chart is just like green separated, but everyone everywhere, it's like very it's like an oasis and then you look like his his top five like modes of off balance. I think he's like in like that. Seventeen, seventy percent or Tyler higher in every single one of those and a big thing that you were taught that you said that I think, is key about that. This next evolutionary step for sinners is
the fact that, like if your big like Yoke Ich, unlike you, can we'll into your own post up from like a face up like in the past, there wasn't enough space to do that. Yoke. It has the ball skills to come down, see if he has a mismatch and dribble into it. He doesn't need it dumped to him, because you know he can hit three. So any just he's just a new type of player and I've been really curious about like going forward. Is he gonna be like a like a idle milestone like template for four big eyes going forward, like our guys, gonna wanna play for like him in the future? I just think that he's a whole new Tiber player on on that level and really remarkable. I think I think that the point you're hitting on Kyle, I do think he's somebody that players should look to try to be like I don't think anybody has his natural passing a Billy. That's just a gift interviewed him a couple years ago, a thousand Denver and asked him. I mean there's something you practice like. How do you become such a accurate passer? Is? I don't know I just for doing this
life? I look, and I put the ball goes where I wanted to go. He never to explain it. He doesn't talk about. Why he's a genius, I think I really is one of those days, yet you just can't explain it in. I think. This is why I bill said: can they win a couple series? I do when you have a player like yoke, you can, but it's not just yogurt stuff At the time when Murray got hurt, I said that sad, as is the socks they're out but Michael Porter Jr is averaging twenty five points per game and he is making. It look easy, and is doing it in ways that you see superstar scores, do pulling up with his hand in his face. You know totally contested with multiple guys around him he's getting better as a passer which, like I said, coach Michael Elon, has talked about and remarks about recently. So can they wanna theories, any law that depends on mad jobs bill? But I think you look it Michael Porter, juniors emergence being a twenty five point. Four, guy and looking legit, like very sustainable, he's been good all year long. I think about Denver and
They went to serious or not. I look at this time like a major major final threat in the years to come, and maybe even one of the favorites if Michael Porter Jr continues to improve, because what he's been doing all year, and especially as of late to me is probably a more under the radar storylines of the entire sees importer looks awesome. You could feel the Murray absence really for the for the first time last night with then that they because the Lakers needed I their play hard, and that's why I say that capacity this is. This is this is where it can about fires here with the yoke its thing. So you know I like. He's one of the best passes of ever seen in my life. I grew up always hearing about the, but we eat out. We didn't have we'd. Have you tube until
two thousand sections in the MID Eightys and Ninetys, the guy, that's about it said: shut up in Portland. Was three in Japan, see a giant pumpkinhead beak and still see some of the passing bill out and was a guy like I think Russell has been underrated as a passer, but just from passing big men, the stuff he's doing. Is already at the highest level. It's with like when people talk about the S nicks when they talk about magic and birds. Stuff, like that, it's interesting look at his stats just compared to bird? If you look at birds, eighty four, eighty five, eighty six, eighty seven just combination of those four years. He was twenty seven, ten and seven joke at this year's twenty six. Eleven a night Bird was fifty one four thousand and eighty nine for shooting splits Jokic is basically fifty six four thousand one hundred and eighty six and this is the one that really reminds me a bird gives. Obviously, bird was an incredible passer. Bird was a twenty seven point, six usage:
and magic was always in the MID S two, and that was one of the reasons guys love playing with those guys because the ball moved around even when they had it, they got rid of it. They were very unselfish. They were Trying to get other guy's going Yoke is usage. Is twenty eight nine. What you little too earlier, Kyle he just really fun to play with, and we've had different versions of the Mvp of the year, Westbrook being kind of the most insufferable version of its two thousand and seventeen. But those hardened rocket teams were no pics over and over again, it's like your main guy. What we're seeing with LUCA now in Dallas, it's like everything's to answer me guys here stand there you're going to stay in there Boston's doing the kind of worst version of it with Tatum and Brown. Rats like these two guys are going to score fifty points you stand here stand here used in here with Yoke edge it. That's not how it goes and I think the porter peace. This will be the most fun thing to watch a bar, because I do think he makes porter better. So Kyle
when we talk about the usage and all that stuff in their other numbers, you crunched. I think that makes more of a unicorn than anything. The fact that, in this version, the NBA, where every team wants to have the who dominates the ball in some way. He doesn't need to dominate the ball and to me you can build around whatever team you want, if your best guys wired that way, yeah yeah You were talking about burn. I think a common denominator is that, like you talk about floor razors, I think the big thing the common denominator among all those guys is that, like they elevate the effort of the people around them because they reward it like you Talkin bout bird bird, if bird had played today yeah I mean he could have played the LUCA in over heavy volume, pickin role style, spread it out drive. He was a lot faster than I think people give him credit for it like an early eighties. I went back and watch them. Those like for the historical things at in the summer that system
side, no bird was actually deceptively fast, but he S. The big thing was like you know he was doing a lot of those like pin downs and like he would catch it in the middle of the floor and Pierre had people like wrestling under the ground. Basically, but making those same types of like I catch it, I make a quick decision in and that sort of like photo memory that like bird had of like he, would take a picture sort of of the play before he would make the play. I feel a yoke its operates in that same real time kind of flow lichen and yeah like with Porter Porter in Yoke. Its together are an incredible marriage in the same way that Murray and Yo Qatar, because Porter and Murray both lean scoring Heavily- and that's that's a big thing that that I think that's one of the big reasons that hee hee, of AIDS him, but I think another thing to is like it's really wild that weird like living in a time. Maybe it's just a case of like basketball is just going. This linear way of work were just getting better.
Time we iterate, but you know we got the best passing center started to qualify with center. I know you said that earlier Koc, but we had the best ever plan right now, arguably, the best player ever who have on, who you ask with Lebron are the best driving big guy ever in Yanis, we have the best. Drivel shooting forward ever I think in Kathmandu rant it's just an amazing time of you know. Yoke is a unicorn in a time of unicorns, so he's winning any bp in that. In that case, Add to that one cash. No, I mean I'm of the Kyle and I think that's sort of a reflection of the state of the game with the amount of spacing that is, vital for these immense towels to do what they do and I think the NBA right now a lot of people feel nobody's plain defence and it is harder than ever to play defence right now because of the level of town in the game because of the way off answers play in the NBA, so
I mean that I agree completely with you guys. I do think players continue to build and build a build over past generations dead and Alice. Just the way, the way the way teams play now his help facilitate that talent to reach an even higher level. You know gone back to the bird, thank as he did this. First, and magic copied it, and it became one of the many reasons why that Eighty seven, eighty eight, eighty nine, ninety Lakers just kind of move toward magic bird that eight thousand and sixteen which I still feel like, is the most dominant team. I've ever seen they were doing this geometry thing where they had a bird and Mikhail one side, and if they posted up Mikhail and bird, was over on the right side, you base guide the decided that point. What to do a lot like with Yoke trait Mikhail is a high fifties. He shot sixty percent. I think in the eighty seven season you can't I had to Dublin
you doubled them with birds guy then bird was wide open. You couldn't do that, so what team started doing was just jumping off a Dennis Johnson and Danny basically being like all right, we're just going to give you eighteen footers? If you make them, you make them so so then the I flipped it and they put bird down there. Where he would have the same impact of of Mikhail, as as I go Lopez guy, but then also could hit all the cutters and when then there is this moment where they kind of unlocked it, and if you go back and watch eighty six finals, unlike a parody myself about eighty six ethics, but watch. Eighty six finals bird was at the height of his powers of this was like this toy. He had where he's like. Alright everybody back off, I'm going to post I'm going to take my time, I'm going to back up Rodney Mccray and you could kind of
the Rockets like what do we do? What do we do and if they sent the second person over, he just found the guy immediately if they sent the guy too late bird would just split both of them and score, and it was that What do we do? What do we do sound tat? That came? I thought it really hard map It is I'm seeing that with Denver, and I think your kids were makes himself. War as an offensive just a week? I Dirk had that once by red top of basically top of the Key- and ass. He got older, he's Oh then, that whole area- and he had this weird funky hypos game and they would space it perfectly that have three when she was everywhere and he would have the pain open. Any kind of operated down there right everybody's got their spot. Lebron has figured out a couple of different spots over the years. Yoga has two spots and for me it's like, if you're an offensive player and you're completely elite in two separate parts of
a half court. I don't know what you do and is there anybody who has two spots like that right now, because I feel like everybody else, has one spot, but he it's almost like. He has two apartments in the same apartment building or something that he could just kind of go up and down and depending where he wants to live. I mean I'm thinking to myself. As you say that does he really only have two spots? I want but I feel like everywhere on the on the court is a spot Yeah Sycamore have court where the like. He could do that twenty four feet away thing, but can also go down into his Bulgaria and there basically getting the same result either way, no matter where he is twenty four feet I mean: is there another elite post score? Who can also shoot of from three? I don't think so because, shooting better their sheer towns is not an elite post score he's a good post scoring. Really have anyway who deleted lead. I, I guess technically Durant the rat.
Could we please see why, right dear aunt, when he kind of the he's he parcels but he can go down there and get points anyone's threats. I so repertoires, yeah minutes it's pretty it's pretty broad and I was gonna. Gotta get no another I mean I just send the click on the direct note is that maybe the next step for some of those guys like. If you have a perimeter base guy, can you maybe add more post up? their game. In order to do some of the stuff does Denver. Does I wonder? I wonder if maybe that's part of where the influence different so difference is the passing is just attic. In any event, two guys who could pass like that out of the low Leubronn who had seen him do it. I don't think he's. Like, I really think Yokich might be one of like the three or four best passers ever I don't know if Lebron is one of the best three or four ever, but he certainly has,
and then the other one is Luka and, as I think about how Luke was going to evolve, I would we all think it would be three points shooting to be one right. If we can get the forty three forty four percent pretty consistently, but then the low post peace, cuz, he's big, he's fucking a handful and there's ways that could go with a from a passing stamp feel at ease years away from that. You think I got didn't even really go down there until two thousand and thirteen year, and now that such a huge asset for him, I love him guys adipose game. I still That's an old school thing. I really enjoying guys do that, but you were. You were hit non, something with the. What are we new zone at like what I think like the top level- and I come in just hammering on like that. The passing is what is the thing that separates these guys? The play make the scoring flipped it to passing, but also just like the awareness of those two things you were talking about like what do you do?
because he's calculating the game in real time, always picture like, like a literal like a level like a construction level. Unlike the bubbles in the dead sinner, there aren't many players that can keep it there there guys that, like want a score so badly that you know you can bait him into taking bad shots. You know you can't there a lot of ways that you can do that, but like Jokic, if you just watch him, he has the entire defense in jail, because because he you know that he knows that he can score and all these different ways if we just described all three levels, you know he's like a pick and roll guy who plays short Rolly can shoot threes. You can post and then, but yet he just he could flip it into this insane passing. But I also think that you have to kind of say that, like what Kevin was saying that, like
spread out nature. The game is, is a thing that he was in the position to capitalize on, unlike sins of the past and- and he just did like- I think it's like Sabonis had play today. I don't feel like you always have to kind of put those things. It's sorta like the thing where they be like Bob Cousy sucks. It's like what is not as good as are, but you have to put things in the order that they happen, because who knows if the the game would have happened. The same way of tiny Archibald didn't bring his thing to the mba and people built on it. So it's like they're both valuable but Yokich. I think the thing you have to applaud yoga for is just that. He was in the position to expand this game and he's twenty five years old. That's the thing is like in the way that he plays. He could do this for a while. Longer in Kyle. On that same note about the balance, like he's very level, he used to lean too much towards the scoring. There are so many nights nuggets fans are frustrated, take only four five six shots, and now he just routinely takes twenty shots per game because you,
get the unselfishness for him earlier. It is true that manifested as I need a pass pass pass for my teammates in order for the notice to consistently wing games at the level of our he understands that he needs to be the score too top of everything else and the way in which he does it is some invite bill said it's bird. Ask just that level ability as I want to talk about fly. Bullets. Let's take a quick break. The September summit Spock Ass, broad you buy zip recruiter. Great team started great talent for finding the right people could be it especially if you're, a business owner who's hiring, look, look at the NFL right now. Imagine the patriots trying to rebuild their
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is the yourself a favor had to your favorite stores, freezer I'll grab yourself, the bag of Mccain, Quick Cook fries their fast to prepare easy to share and you flip and deserve that. Are it so when you talk about like a truly great offensive player which had been yoke judges in year end, especially in a play officers, you see somebody seven times into some point that you try to use certain things against some right. With Kobe, and I think Kobe was easier to stop than a lot of these guys. You could get them to settle for three, I'm talking easier to stop than the greatest of all time. Guys, like you, look at what the two thousand and four piston state to him, they made him settle for three. They used a hero, complex thing against them, the same thing, the Oi Celtics did against them same thing. The two thousand and ten Celtics almost successfully did in game seven against them
Basically use corbies ego against them. Send double teams Adam in games when he wants to be the hero, heroin kind of force him to make the right basque biplane eventually get there, but he would have this in a whole rocky process. Leubronn is greatest he's been throughout his career. I still feel like there's a part of teams that are just say k if he wants to shoot twenty four footers great go head, because that means you're not near the basket. That means you're not driving that you're getting a call every time eager the basket. I still feel that now with Laker games like I think, teams are delighted when issues twenty four footer he's somewhere between thirty five and forty from from three thing, I think thing. I think that probably changes with a hand in his face. What is the flaw of Yokich game that you guys see that Denver that could be used against Denver because he's got to have one? So what is it? I think it was hinted at,
Lakers game where they just didn't double him at all. They took away passing options. They stay close to home, one buddy, who was behind the art everybody else who was on the court with the oak and try to make him a score, and I dont know if I call it a weakness, is the Sally shooting fifty percent on dribble jumper It's not a negative by any means, but I do think what you'll see teams try to do is say: okay, create creator shot for your, And it might be the timing of the help that comes over to maybe try to prevent the lay upper or whatever you have him getting into the paint, but try to make him into a score against a tough defender is probably the solution. As you know, on power from the ball back off, I call it a weakness, assess necessarily he's I can well they often supplier, but Albania, joy is okay. I say because we I mean it's a subtle weakness but member the o five son spur series when the spurs use NASH is
selflessness against them and they're just like go ahead score. Forty points, a game, we're taking out everyone else. You're not getting. Fifteen assists in any of these games and NASH put up huge stats, but it really hurt his team because they just covered everybody in that kind of exposed. This whole eat out there. There is basically a flaw in the machine I did say enact, does want to play that way and when I did the book a basque coping with them, when I made a watch that seven playoff game- and he was just like- I should have shot more threes.
What I was doing. I was of forty plus preset report shooter. Why didn't I take pick eleven again, which I think he knows now. It does feel. I call that yoke is realize. Like oh shit, I should shoot more yeah. I think I think it's a combination of what you're talking about what we are saying before. It's like you do need to have that balance for the first three and a half quarters, but then you also do need to be if you're gonna be the best player and a title team, you gotta that gear of like I can go in just destroy you on this level, like if you're gonna dear me, to do this. You know it's interesting in the ways that teams have gone. At him? I mean in the play off steam, start experimenting with like the types of doubles where the doubles come from. When they come, I mean it's very sophisticated. I mean we don't eat teams reserve that stuff for the playoffs and with Yoke Ich I mean at we ve seen this do with like best players through the years you're talkin about there's. Always it never fails. There always is like a little dash of like let's either beat the shit out of
you can't do that as much anymore, but for let's ears The shit out of this guy- and we did see similar last year with why I mean dwight- was just all up in his space like throughout that series I mean, I guess the other like reasonable segue here. Is that, like the defense- and I mean it's been do that on on the offensive in you. Dare him to score, you have big outputs over the course of a series or- or you and then you go at him on the defensive into too I mean teams are attacking him. The share via throw it he's, defended more pickin rules than anybody in the NBA this entire season, she's any any help us out. I mean he's. Never lockdown paint protector body mean is no Rudy go. Bear is not a joint debate on defence, but he's good enemies, good position away. He communiques he's an elite rebound her. I do think you know to your point, guile that maybe you attack him even more on.
Sense. You wrap it up even to another level, to try to wear him out. Try to get him frustrated because sometimes you'll Can you now we ve seen about some of those outburst here and there through the years not so much recently though he had one a couple weeks ago, but with your great outburst he does. I love it. It's part of what makes them so lovable, but but with Okag. I think that's pretty. Of what has gone on to read with a season he used to be a bad defender, he has become an above average or defender, and that is that is an aspect of his game, which is why I feel comfortable Fannys would be a near unanimous envy it's not like he's a negative on that end of the floor. He's pretty good yeah. It's the roughing up thing, there's only a couple of teams in the west that can do it, but I'm just thinking about how would go series by Series right like if they played Phoenix in a series. I think Chris Paul would figure out.
A bunch of different ways to fuck with them, especially on screens and stuff. You would be given elbows and punches stuff like that. The Lakers are the tough batch up for him and, ironically, that's the team they probably have to go through. I would say: Davis is the perfect guy to defend him. I'm not saying he's a yoke stopper by any means, but I thought the Lakers gave a lot of trouble. Last year you talked about Dwight kind of fucking with him and messing them and hitting him, and he always seemed like he was taken, an invert the face, gettin popped in the nose gonna for rebound just getting clobbered she of that peace. And then you had these laws athletic guys who can handle him when I won foresight and how many are there? There's Davis there anyone like Mark Andre eight and do that in a series- probably not Barca, so did a pretty good job as good as you can hope to do at least so you, might the three hundred pound heavy savvy veteran would be the other way to go. You gotta give the guy
that can like just accumulate like you talk about Chris Paul, like they can just accumulate those little shots throughout the game, and you target his frustration. I'm after teams talk about this. I mean he's done it in recent years. But like yeah, you this target him in that way. I m it's all a positional savvy enough to bother him in that sense. I think Well, they're gonna, be it either a top three are top Foresaid right now are taken as it is to day one o clock there. Forty three and twenty four preserve forty three and twenty two is: are they not a fool following clippers team, but as usual with them anytime, you start feeling half decent about the clippers. All of a sudden, they three in around row and they look terrible the Gober matchup. Banner, a really fun with with Yokich over the years and that's a team. If therefore seed, they could actually see Utah in round two Mikey wins the Utah match up against.
Bear my run at the back of it- I don't think you're wrong to think that is just a matter. What then, were actually when the serious, even if yoga twas the match habitats for free can get man. The backfired thing is tough, yet, as I do from a you know, unfortunately, the Murray thing I do think it rears its ugly head in a seven gave sears. I think when you're just plain somebody once thought of different, but you going seven times. I don't know maybe know what you're have to have to be, like thirty, fifteen and seven for the first to rounds to advance to the west, the an importer would have to be a twenty. The to them would have to be somewhere between I'll, say. Fifty three fifty five points, a game realistically, Yeah something like that, I mean you mentioned Jamal Murray that'll, be what causes their demise and the pro season. Eventually. Unless
border Junior goes from running like to pick animals for game and three isolations per game to ten to fifteen total any still dominant. Like he's a loose, in a smaller usage, you doing those things. If you do that with a higher usage that changes, everything for Denver throughout the variable, I would look out with Denver, but I agree with you that your mama not having him battle, hurt the sheer but If he had heard it said I had tat, but it's not yet, unfortunately, but in the future, like once, you get your mama back, you get another year. Baron Gordon you make additions to the draft reagents see through trades, this team, it could entering be twenty twenty to play off. It could be the favorites with appointed you to getting as good as he is. I am, he will tell you about it on and be universally this. We can share Kyle loudly oppressing avatar, pressing question about the guy's relating to be universally ok, I'm not sure if you guys are where there's a yoke is not american ones
Is it possible. For the way American Basque about set up for people twenty in under. And the whole au system and the whole her Abolish spread out shoot. Twelve three is just the way we play basketball and you could go watch any eighth grade and up game on Youtube. Wherever just watch the way we play basketball is it possible for us to ever produced a yoke edge? magic or a bird or anybody who sees the court that way when we're rewarding these specific things that basically are directly opposed to that. What do you think I That's a really good question. I mean we've seen yeah it's interesting because I mean Harden was american. He plays that in that way he has that same kind of ability. I don't know, I don't know. If that is that's a nature, nurture
The thing that I am not totally sure I guess it really depends on weight, Kate Cunningham as a guy coming up that has that same type of like play, making scorn scoring balance, but in tat in terms of like Serbia is just a really interesting case study for like up a very contain basketball. You're in the way that they grow players like a lot of their guys that reach the highest level of China. Have these kind of common traits of of playing this way? Is it possible for the american game to create a yoke ich? I dont know, if I don't know if those players are necessarily created or if it was just a really good fortuitous situation of the serbian basketball culture cultivated him in a way that was just sort of right place right time, I mean I don't know what you think Kelsey I mean. I think. If we talk about earlier with the this is just something he has. He just has the ability, the ball wherever he wants a too and I
I mean something that can be nurtured with the way you are raised in the culture that you're part of, but it's also just nature in the sense that he is truly an outlier. Now he his passing accuracy is like Tom Brady level. It is the best quarterbacks is Gregg Maddox, it is the best pitchers. Like he is just one of those guys. You can just put the ball. He wants you, no matter where is born and I think the american style versus the overseas style? We definitely reward and in care about things that go often are on the box. Score points donks big plays and not the stuff that goes beyond the box score and let you know like being in the right position, making the extra pass and all that. But I think it's like you said Kyle. We still have some of those guys. Cade Cunningham is a past first player. I think a lot of it depends on just what you're best skills are and with Kate. We have that, but I don't know if we'll ever find a yoke for many years to come because he's such an outlier, I think the emulation thing is the key part like I was talking about earlier.
These players come along and they really really affect how players after them play like. I really think that, like Jordan came in and we a whole generation of six. What six guys you wanted, carry a big usage rate and shoot in the slot, and things like that, and then I don't know will see we're just gonna do this cycle of who is gonna, come that's going to want to play like you. Are they going to be in the position to play like Yokich? I don't know he's so special that I hesitate to say that it's going to happen again, but you, you would hesitate to say there going to be another player like bird. Is there going to be another play like a bonus and it takes some time, but it happens, but I don't know that's a good. A good question even think. Like the stuff harden was doing this year, I didn't think he had
like I just thought he had developed, so many bad habits in Houston, with the way they had that offense that that was just the way he had to play from that point on, and there was real ingenuity in some Brooklyn Games this year. I guess from an american basketball player standpoint I would say hard in the broader, probably have the most ingenuity creativity to the way they see staff. But those guys you know, harden, came in believing what two thousand the brown came in a league in two thousand and three, the so who's next year. The next guys. I just worry that this next generation now now I sound like a super o guy, but you know, if I'm of, if I'm a forty player- and I can do everything in basketball- who am I going to emulate, I'm going to emulate Steph, curry and Dame Lillard and when I try to learn, Lukas dropped back step and
but I'm not going to do, is like going Youtube and watch old clips of Kenny Anderson, New Jersey, Tech or Steve NASH on the two thousand and six sounds like I'm going to think about three point: shooting and that's what I'm going to practice. That's how I'm going to play and what about a fast break, I'm going to run to the corner? Cuz! That's where I get the bomb not going to think about what to do in a three hundred and ninety two. And I really worry about this stuff because I think we're creating an assembly line of players with the same attributes and which is why it seems like a lot of the forum, are the most interesting guys we have now us and Bead LUCA Age where there are they're, all pretty distinct even Zinga, I mean he's unique just because of his height, but I just hope we're not going to raise a generation of people that I'll just play. The Why that's? Why jail in some really rooting for him? I think he's different. Do you know, I think, he's theirs? for this to him that I'm not sure these guys had now been do depressing Kazi. No
So I mean you, I imagine Rudy Bear Gilbert I'd adamant about two going anywhere guy in your favour, guided budget either cocoa who told you in America, asylum. If it's a lot of work is where where the american influence goes wrong, I think a good. A good case like like example of this is the one person you didn't mention was la mellow and la Mellow had lament has this skill set? I've talked about this. A lot is that, like he, but his his sort of, like you, know, test experiment like. If you look, his case. It was very unique because yet he was pulled out of the system and allowed to experiment at this crazy level on bothered for a long time he didn't play with the same teams. He was always just kind of to the side of the american pipe.
Wine, and he developed the skills that, were you really unique idea I'd? I think basketball is kind of homogeneous right now, especially with especially with like trainer culture. We do have a problem with and I did. I think it's going to get better because it's getting address, but we do have, problem with players entering the higher levels of basketball spending too much time now, I'm going to sound like an old man, spending too much time playing. Workout basketball, as opposed to five on five learning, feel creativity, things like that, because players play the same way like they literally mimic down to the detail while and then you think about, If you're young guy like need sent to me, we haven't talked to Nee Smith research. It's Koc, that's a whole separate
borderline emergency podcast. We may have to go to locker room after something came, but I watched how they're using Need Smith, who just the light bulb, went on two weeks ago and he's doing all this hustle stuff he's shooting three he's getting offensive, rebounds and yet on offense. He just runs to the left corner because that's how the Celtics play and if you watch every NBA team, basically most of the premier guys just run to one of the two corners and they stand there, and they don't do that much and it's like how are we going to develop this dude we're not putting the ball out of hands? We're not running pick unrolls with them? He's were not running motion with them. Is this just what he does- and I just think about somebody like that who I really do think is talented. How is he going to evolve unless, like Jalen Brown gets hurt and he gets the Jalen Brown eighteen shots and all the stuff that so that that's that's my cheer. I mean. How is that any different, though them, like Pga Brown, spot from twelve feet in the base?
from the elbow I mean like players have always spotted have just from mid range now they're spotting out from behind the ark, and I think not there is less movement than ever. Thou you have to with the Weird motors is dams for some teams yeah for sometimes for short, Let's move him, but I dont think it's all at every team has become the Houston Rockets with James harden the more revolvah teams are shooting more and more and more and more threes, which I thought. I still think that Kurt Goldsberry Book sprawl ball that when we back about years. From now will look ahead of its time and about the NBA needs to be pro active with rule changes to make the game aesthetically beautiful, I'm not reacted and I do think there will be a point with the three point shot that maybe change will be necessary which had an influence, the way teams play and await train trainers. Trained players. The way players practices their drawn up. But I don't, I don't think we're at that point. Teams get threes in so many different ways, so many different offensive systems such as all
hi Pickin Rwanda, I personally love the way the game, right now, but I do they. It will reach a point some day where someone, changes are gonna be needed to change the way teams player. I like it. I don't love it. I have. I think these teams are two three happy, and I know I sound like an old guy, but that's one of them, That is why I want to do in our and your courage, because I just think he's really. The wait then replaced Israel. Important, the same ways to feel like the early two thousand kings were just really important because They were so different that whatever else is doing, then it became the mid two thousand son same thing. It was, I think, We have these guys and you know I think the league we have more talented players than ever. I just wish we had more styles. Denver to me is just a unicorn team. You know the fact that So, if Porter was on like the Cleveland Cavaliers, we go right. They would bring it out there spread out.
He would go one on one try to be people, you know he'd, four, twenty four game, a game. I, if know, if be be the best way for his to call you mention the mellow, I'm really glad you did, because he should have come up sooner. We're talking about that, but you re really unique. Experience the way he grew up the way he got pulled out and when, I was glad to make mistakes obviously was help. I guess my question, though, is how does seem like he has real social media currency with some of the passing in the end. Selfishness and his highlight passes have become no different than like a miles bridges, dunk so maybe that maybe Le Mellow will be the one combined with yoke edge that cause some? I don't know nine year old to be like on the playground today. I want to be like these guys, I'm not going to be Dame lowered, shooting twenty eight footers, I'm going to try to set up
teammates and I'm going to throw no and like is that possible, or those are two best hopes he has, and he has a style that is very palatable and- and I think like, and I think that I don't look you look. You know Steve we. We have had examples of players with that passing gene. Impact on today's game, like Steve NASH, really influence tray young known as much as much crap astray young gets here. The train. I have really good passer. I was out you I wish she passed more and shot less like I. If I could take the sea saw, I would see, saw way more towards the unselfishness in passing, but yes, he is he's an incredible password, but yeah I mean I know it's hard to predict. I mean it's hard to know, but I mean he's. Yellow mellow ball has a massive massive amount of credit credibility with with these with the kids these key as governor, but I think that, like you know, he didn't it's just hard to. It are to know it's hard to really recreate what happened with him like beget with love
because the comparison that I've made a bunch is that, like the only other player that I could find, that have really similar experiment of like my dad, is controlling my whole playing context. My whole development was pistol peat and we aim and we ve seen the historical kind of impact that he had. So I guess, if that's any indicator, yeah me people of passing so hopefully hope. Ok, I gotta get back to get as his case is the most optimistic I've seen so they at least if we about domestic care cm, he's out there as optimistic about niece, whether you optimist by Mr Liese, bismuth. Fine gonna worry, don't uniting the pre eminent, it's ok for him to be run our screens and hand ass, build a fine if spot from three, as he hadn t leave much this year you're trying to win in the short term. Sometimes that's the answer to send. You know you, have the luxury to let him get the wraps. You know like the spurs did that accounting Johnson it or you can really bad and develop plays at the same time like ok, see like poker.
De to settle down and and they don't mind. Let it let it fly want. It still needs it. Yeah chaos would never do only does videos on the wait about lottery, thinks that he has to defend from beers pat from pass. These, then did you ever their Mohammed, weeding out there were who waited Julian Haze leader, poker, someday Bell Sunday, whereby Europe a more bomber video. Twenty two points. Last night, old yeah, I'm gonna buy or Obama stock, give me the seven foot. An wingspan guys. Twenty years old I am, I went we'll go by the rocky cards of eyes I saw have been. I have I got a minute. I haven't watched a lot of magic. I did see the the crunch time. Marco Anthony won the game, but Hampton looks like he's a keeper, and I don't know what that trade. I think that trade or I like when trade
both teams is ideally why you want to make a trade, but I do like some of the stuff. Orlando is done. You think that bulls, trade, where the bulls might not make the playoffs I mean that could be like the seventh picking the raftery, it actually with the way they do the lottery adds. I guess then, ten Chicago keep it, but that's a tough trade and we all like that trade ray we're like like the which trade for Chicago Man either both they're not gonna, make the play a game. We were both pretty initially. Hi it where we we see. I think that we are willing to boost which Haddan like Buchi hadn't hadn't started, really really shoot it yeah. We're like this has a great upside down and it was kind of interesting. Did his watch collective bull, social media like go into a total tailspin panic, but like on with our to Hampton he's an interesting case because he was near the top of his class
all the way through and then when he got to the n b l, we started to do the NIT picking thing, and you know we had the extra long draft process that we got really near picky. He always had like high defensive upside. I think it's just like the shooting seems like it has more growth played on it than we thought before, which mean that was a good ticket for sure for the for the men were in But before we got a quick question about the draft covering on Ringer University Ringer University, which of so, is it a top five or top? Six for you guys, or is it a top two and then next level. Three slash for petty habit: I'd, say the latter at their top to then a three flash for after that. You know. There's some questions. Is it a top five coming as some people love homes? bar is high on him, but I'd say very clearly at top two and then some other could play a Suggs in Green and after that, I'm kind of life. Out. So you have Cunningham and Mowbray,
are now it's become like what happened. Then I fell draft furs, Lawrence and Wilson, and then it dropped a notch, and then it was like hearing for all three a Kathleen for yoga yeah. I agree with you. I mean, I think, those two guys at the top or like either. One of these guys could be like a peace that gets turn us into. Let's say like Minnesota: got either one those guys it could really really change the direction of a where they go cause they're, both unselfish players, who give you high, like caves really. Team defender really smart. You know he can play multiple roles there, so many teams that he could fit on in that range that, like he would he would plug right in and change what's going on for them, but yeah it's a. I go to top five top six. I like Scottie, Barnes, more, that's been my You're saying the last week I like him more than ollinger allowance, I'm really high on him. I like him alive I also like that. You're Williams, a lot too. I may lived a regret that one but he's another guy that I think where's where's Mitchell's brother these days in the land, six to ten range Davion Mitchell.
I believe I have six or seven right now, a lot of people have the top ten at the moment, yeah, I'm all in on that too. In case you're, wondering he's good at kind of guy. Yeah like that to me is like there's no question he will be, productive at the airport. I haven't done all my my studying at I really like Moby though I like, I I just to me. That's a canvas more boldly to passer better pass them a number show. Usa, I want to see a team on like that Kevin Oconnor, we can rejoined the ringer, we can check you out on the mismatch and then a ringer use and on, I miss a ringer jobs. Are greater opening rigour, MBA University on the Ringer, NBA and Eliza is a common watches. Us videos and you can hear monitoring the issue as well fight all question yoke, and so, if you had say right out ten pound empty peer, twenty pound in GDP.
They have all the higher arise when he heard forty prize is forty he's that eligible for the running of the forty pounding Bibi's, like you mean, like the who's, the heaviest envy peace, every forty envy pay is like you know, bird and eighty sags shack in two thousand, the brine. Two thousand thirteen, like steam by others that they seem like Oji seasons from all time, guys. Jordan and there there's no like Jordan. Ninety three kind of ninety two without is urging the georgian wines tough, because you could, you could basically make a case for like six. Pound every piece for him. By that I mean basically every time we wanted a forty about a vip, but he should have one like eight, so yeah I'd say he's forty bound across the board. Do you have got ten pound or twenty, it's a pretty special envoy.
The army will fisted a huff all the historical things it is doing, and I think, if you take it into the broader context, man I would want to leaned toward the twenty. I mean it's pretty and it's pretty good man. I mean it's, it's pretty pretty special. So I can I go. Teen. Eighteen, perhaps I meant to say I'm saying tat. If I think if they get the three seed, not having Murray for the last third of the season. Basically your last fourth of the season inching its inching toward twenty. It's me, its apparent from the face. The only player is played every game, the seas, nails and all star five, more minutes, maybe bondage Joyce Randal on a year, so many players have been hurt. Our health and safety protocol so many variables the season and he's been the one Eddie Guy, all your long dominating every single mighty, the twenty pounds? Reaper awesome, Cassie Cards, guess this absence
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Our next. This is what I want to work. This is one of those I like that. I'm just glad it in these amigos bullshit khazar anyone out to get into that right away with you, Jake Tapirs. Here he's got the Eagles face when you called the patriots she like three years ago, I'm gonna! Let that side, I think we can get past it. You put your programme now, in my opinion, we need. They, when their similar cheaters years, the lining with them that's fine, but as they have you on any you know, I've always been trained to two to be kind to my hosts. So I will just say I'll just say: thank you. It's nice to be heard. As I told you, when we started. I I've been an admirer of your will, give your working and your entrepreneurship and and force of law you that you are for quite some time since it's it's nice to meet you even if it's just virtually yeah. Thank you. I appreciate your fellow Gamma Boston, guys
Somehow, somehow we get along the Superbowl, there's gonna, be some six or sell things ass kings, probably a probably headed for the Boston way. Oh it's a pretty soon, but I did think about veering towards the sports side, or you always knew you were going to be in the other direction. Other direction and, to be honest, I float in and out of following teams, and one of the great regrets of my life is. I was so intensely I bring the two thousand eight presidential race, because I was on the road covering Obama. Then I I didn't catch the Phillies another world series. I mean I watched the world Series, but I didn't really wasn't really part of my. I didn't follow it now. I don't even know if the MLB F was around at the time- probably not but yeah, but no
but now that I have the emerald be out, it's just its is much more part of my life yet funny the technology has gone. So good luck, I was at a soccer termism, my daughter, the vague of the Oscars, and we just put the Oscars on the dashboard on my phone. I just hooked up. Thrifty began I wasn't looking at it, but you didn't really have to look at it. You could just listen to it, but I was thinking like this is nuts, like I'm watching the Oscars in my car as we're driving on the without board said: like a game changer, you would have had that. Oh eight fillies on the road like where every web based wherever I went there would have been so great a thankfully annabel. Would you call called season
again at whatever. Yet whenever that is, I have bad. So I was able to really the last few years leading up to the two thousand and seventeen super bowl. I was able to really get into the tea, although almost the entire team is gone now, for I know that the state of Papa,
Basically, you keep my two guys and then everybody has just disappears teenage crazy. Like every one of you I mean, I don't even know what's gonna happen to urge like every one of the great leader was, I mean you'd think that we'd have one of our quarterbacks. At this point, wonderful, I mean I was kind of a false guys, false guy like kept quiet, because everybody unsophisticated when it comes to sports and so for me, was the site of also unnoticed suitable. If we have to pay, if they're not going to pay both of them, I mean we should stick with the one that brought us to the dance. But I can't get to quiet because it seems that stupid, because Carson was. Lastly, the Bob Lot now enough, not that we have nothing, but now we have neither right, you were kind of Mary images of each other, because I am a kind casual to depending on
what's going on in the world more than casual news and politics person, but then obviously sports, sports sports and then you're the flip side of that when you hit stuff, like I don't know the last eighteen months heading into the election and then through January is there time for other stuff right? I just seems like it's completely are consuming, especially with the state the country is it is, it is all consuming. There is time for us to stop because, especially when it so nasty which it has been you now for the last fibre years just truly nasty and ugly and every time you think it can't get uglier it almost inevitably does yeah. There definitely has to be time for other stuff, birds, family or writing, or sports or binging on Netflix, her ears boom
so whatever there has to be because otherwise you know, I would have a very serious drinking. I like that. You stuck in HBO Max was Smart furthermore, the areas get him I learnt company has now add up. Is gaieties deathlike HBO bags, actually love HBO backs yeah. I feel like it. It's calm down a little bit in so many different ways right the election cycle. That's done the pandemic, yeah. I know it's a great around the world, but at least that America seems like it's your heading into a decent man. Direction where life is starting to feel again and now it feels like the disinformation stuff is going to become the dominant thing really bad worth, reading ass the end that is worse in it's like I'm, so I've been changing,
on the marvel of diplomatic universe. I waited to watch them all with my kids. But my kids are eleven and thirteen now and they couldn't care less, but supernumeraries denounces watching about myself. When I find I when I work out and I'm at the point in Avengers Age of Ultron. Where were you doing really well, but you, like you, look at how much time is left in the movie and you can also just sands light of this is the fake defeat for all of a sudden, like you realize the fake, if he has the bad guys before so you realize like. Oh, no, that was the fake out. All fronts got some. You know I mean, as movie goers, you just become accustomed to this stuff, in fact I say to my kids- were watching a movie, especially bigots. Sad, remember, kids, as it were, the two thirds why did the movie, where the heroes in his lowest point- and you know what I mean like get because because these things just have a structure anyway I feel like that's where we are right now, like ok,
information like Trump as the lead purveyor of this information, as basically kind of been quiet for a little bit, but we know that that's just not the case. Something does happen. You know like the Republican Party, not all of them. Too many of them house leaders, mainly Mccarthy and scales, were seeking to you know: Galli Liz Cheney for telling the truth like they, it's just dissipated and we just don't know what's coming next. So I don't we're not out of the woods yet when it comes to disinformation. You've been in politics, your whole career. Is it fair to say we're just more aware of how ugly it is, I you could say like on to the nine and early two thousand stuff like that. There were stages
where, where it was really ugly, it was early two thousand obviously, and just seems like everything now is more overt and really know all the reasons for that. Maybe it's so media makes everybody more hyper aware of all these different things, and I know them Information disinformation stuff is way worse now, but at the same time like Do you think if we had a lot of apparatus that we have now to follow the stuff tat we to be more aware of of just how deep this were in the nineties in the two thousands, if a great question, yes you're right, look, there's been ugly politics forever and and and all of that- and you know, I think that you know you raise a good boy. Are we now is more aware of it
and that's possible because of social media were now is more aware of what everybody is reporting and everybody sang, and maybe it was just before they were saying it in smaller groups, and we just were we of it. But you know and like I've written about some of this stuff, the last novel I wrote, takes place dream of a party and then the new one takes place during early Kennedy years. So you have there been ugly hearts, but you know one of the things that historians always used to say when things got uncle and politics, one well in your John Adams and Thomas Jefferson, you know they had pamphleteers. That would go after each other and call you know call on. Adams, a hermaphrodite and things got really ugly. You know in this last race, literally Trump and his
we worry accusing Joe Biden of being essentially being had a fine, I mean so I think the degree to which it is ugly than ever before and the ugly. This is that there is a sense of shame that has just gone from the market. When it comes to some people what they are willing to say about another person. I think it is worse than before and, like I said, even though president terms voice has been quieted because of evidence remove from social media his defeat new election. You know you have more people believing his lies than ever before. Also so I don't know it's it's we need
and strong republican Party, I'm not one who thinks like the Democratic Party has the interest anything. I think there needs to be a lively fact base debate on these things, but people can't just be making stuff up about election fraud or a cabal of satanic, worshiping pedophiles. I mean I work, who are cannibals also by the way don't forget to eat and pizza eaters yeah right? Well, we know what pizza means. I mean right with the January six. If that doesn't happen, how much trump is in our life right now That's a great question. I think he probably still isn't. It depends on whether or not those lines that he was telling
The election lies whether he was still telling them and whether it had resulted it because, if January six hadn't happened, you could argue on this alternate universe. There would have been some violence in some other way like you, when I was what everybody had been covering this. This is what we had all feared for months. I remember talking to a friend of mine who writes for a prominent publication and she was really I would name is person, but I had to get permission, but she was really bomb. Because new about what it just happened it this is when the real unstable liars to come in to meet with Trump Sidney Powell in like flynn- and you know all these people who were.
Intimately trying to overturn the election. Yes, she was worried because she knew about this, and this is what we all fear that these lies would lead to violence and of course they did your hypo I need more like ok, you know it. You were doing there. Some stir and ask stir of ECHO's alternate universe, has there been an act of violence is Trump still lying about the election. I mean, I think, that all of that was inevitable as long as you kept broadcasting lies and inevitably, therefore, he would have been taken off social media one way or the other, because it was going to lead to violence somewhere somewhere. That's my answer is well. I know I think
happen, but if it didn't happen it just would've been January, twenty, three rd or exactly whatever yeah or it would have been March three RD. When Biden on such and such a place. It was all just a question of how is it going to manifest itself in the violence? yeah. I guess you could feel at Bruin you I mean you guys, I'm sure you, Probably at least a little nervous about a year safety and everybody that worked for CNN and stuff, like that it became so divided. So polarizing, especially around the election like did you did. You feel ain't gonna work, everyday life I mean Caesar. Sioc is the guy that Trump inspired to send or who felt that he had been inspired by Trump to send pipe bombs to Democrats and members of the media? No,
Listen, you go back and you can find me interviewing prompt telling him to pleading with them to calm things down in two thousand and sixteen because the rallies were getting so violent. Ask him a question about that. A debate in March, two thousand sixteen in miami- and now it was always was always the fear that this was gonna leader. If it was it was leading to violence, it was called violence and then what was going to happen and how much more was it going to spread and look? I mean. This is notion in national security costs to cast of terrorism, which is the idea that if your powerful enough you you
site and you demonize somebody enough than people who are followers of yours. Even if you have not said go commit this act of violence against this person. You have created this environment that incites stochastic terrorism, and you can argue very compellingly that Trump and the conservatives and Republicans pushing in two thousand and eighteen, the fear of the caravan coming to America. Coming to the United States from Central America. You can make a very compelling case that that inside the violence at the tree of life, synagogue in two thousand and eighteen, which was remembered Trump, was doing all this leading up to the midterms trio. Life synagogue attack was October,
the Daphne Jean. It was right for the alleged you can make the compelling argument that it up inside the violence in El Paso. I mean there were no fingerprints, but there was that stick ass to terrorism, and then there was the inside it directly incited violence of January. Six. That morning, yeah me, I said something to see an end that morning about, like, I hope, were prepared for security today
I might have said it the night before, because we all knew he saying it's gonna get while January wild comfort, I mean, and he was saying the election was being stolen and people were people believed him. I swear, I almost wonder if he started to believe that after a while, I dont know- and this has always been a big mystery about this year of who is lying because of political ambition. Who is saying these lies because there is some sort of psychological problems and they don't know, what's real, what's not real
and who is not intelligent enough to understand that these are lots and at some point it doesn't really matter. I don't know what Trump believes. I don't know why he believes what he believes. I just know it's not true, and I think you seem to be suggesting that at this point he believes that And I think you're right, I think he does believe. I dont know that he always did, but I think he has now at this point, you know, I'm not a professional in terms of white. Why leaves out where? Why Michael Flynn does, or you know any power or any of these beyond just noted everything you're saying is true. It in, and you know they ve been asked provings in courts of law, a chance, because it's not true, and it's just
I cannot fathom, but then it you know there are people who join coats, and I dont understand that. But rather They find a compelling reason to believe in such and such and I dont understand that you know how he has lain the use lane the breadcrumbs for before the actual election, all totally a lot at tat makes you think that makes you think this his plan, all along that if you lost the election, here's his get out of jail free card here he has this separate plan of well, I lost, but here's why Because she said, if I lose, the only way I lose is if they cheat yeah, that's it. He said it so We saw months coming for months and months and months yeah. The only thing that is surprising to me about any of it is how little the people around from and who are part of
republican power structure continue to buy the idea that no no, no, we just need to appease him for a little bit hunger, and then he will accept reality. Yeah like the management models of the world, but he thought he could just wait. It's all the electors, Matt and then from wood, except what happened. Why would you think that, in the other thing that surprises me is the degree to which people like Jared, commissioner and of uncontrolled and my pants people who I have to believe? I know that the election wasn't stolen, although at this point who knows what they
but those people how much they didn't understand that this is going to keep getting worse and worse and worse and for the sake of the country they needed to try to stop it. I mean like Jared Kushner, can make an argument and I'm sure he does that he helped pass criminal justice reform, that he helped with these incredible Abraham words in which Israel is now at peace. With several sunni Arab nations. I mean there are its. There are things we can be proud of that he helped achieved by nobody. I gotta get me: that's not gonna, be in the first line of his obituary in accountancy shrivel. Yeah, wonder I wonder if it became professional,
saint Aubert for job there for at least the first part of it when he is that this is how many, when I'm in a play this character and then it seemed like a bearded to something different and I'm not sure at what point of the process from two thousand fifteenth, two thousand twenty, that veer happened, but by the end of it like. I really think that he thinks the election got stolen from this way like OJ, probably doesn't think he burners wife, you no legal, do things that I think at this point he probably does yes, I do. I think he, I think, he's probably come up some version of whatever the reality that that night was it didn't, involve him committing a murder. I think people can convince themselves just about anything after enough times, if they're repeating the same, you know half truths or lies over and over again. I think they can convince themselves of anything.
I mean, I guess that's right, I mean I. I will say that the older I get and I don't mean to make light of mental health issues, because I take very seriously in the real crises and people should get the help they need and all that. But there is a real at dumped. The older I get the more. I realise that there are a lot of very unbalanced people in positions of power near the house in the Senate in the news, media and people who should not, who should not be trusted with the power they have begun They their grasp on realities tenuous? So perhaps perhaps with the Republicans egg, there is obviously a fear to come out fully against him. They given and even at the bitter Anna was really until January sex when some people I drive like this
I'm gonna be on the right side of history. Do you think that fear came from being afraid of drums supporters or being afraid of trumpets, two thousand twenty four? and the fact that in four years later, this guy might be back in my life, and I don't wanna see MIKE an enemy of is illegal. I mean it depends on the individual. It's a smart question. A lot of people like right now right playing it's playing out in the House Republican Conference with them all like going after Liz Cheney, because she is telling the truth about the election and the insurrection, yeah. I was more constructive. Probably that almost everybody, that's attacking her in terms of policy I think a lot of those people afraid of trump votes, they're, afraid losing an election and there for they are doing what they feel needs to be done in order to knock defeated.
Or in order to be able to Kevin Mccarthy's case win the house in twenty twenty two. I think there are also people, Twenty twenty four, I mean, I think, that's the calculus just relating to the two dozen people thinking about running for president twenty twenty forks. But when I don't, Understand about them is the stronger trump is the less likely the more likely it is that he'll run and the less likely it is that they'll have a shot. Like I mean Chris Crispy can't run for isn't it if Trump's running, I don't even know which of them can run for president if Trump's running, I guess, theoretically, lens Channy could but I don't know. I just don't know how that works. I think there is also a degree to which some of them are personally intimidated by trot some of them are personally people that have never stood up to a bully before and for instance, I think it's very likely. That one of the reasons Kevin, Mccarthy, member
He was all in on the line and then the riot happened, and then he had like twenty seconds of courage where he went the floor of the house and held prompt accountable to a degree for the interaction and then, between that and like January, the end of January, he switched back and, all in with prompt again during that period, Maggie, hey Remit of the New York Times reported the tromp called Kevin, Garcia Pussy, and I think that actually have an effect. Yeah, I think that actually I mean to his face, not just behind his back. I ain't like I think they had. In fact, I think that that must have really bothered him, because he's got a brutal spirit He's afraid of you know, I don't know it hurts feelings. I have no idea, but I mean it's crazy to me. It turns out that. I don't know we're not in the world of adults
But what is CNN, like you, have this something for five years and then a sudden. It's gone. It's almost like if there were playing if the NBA plans for five years in a row from a content standpoint and those that there was in the issues gone like day to day what are the things that you think are driving discourse right now things that you care about other than the disinformation stuff and obviously the covid the vaccine arguments things like that. What else matters right now in two thousand and twenty one to you well, first of all, let me just say: he's not gone just because he's not on tv like he's still like he's lingering? Oh yeah me all this republican civil war stuff is hit. That's him! Yet it's you know, it's not he's not. There argues dolphin, but you know that's, that's his shadow were his spirit. You know well enough to be completely honest,
the toy. My show my daily show the leave, which is on it for went from one hour to two hours at the end of April, and I love and one of the things I love about it is comforting non tromp stories, yeah covering the coup in Myanmar and covering the blockade because of the civil war in Yemen, and you know I hate covering the co. I hate covering disasters in the sense that I'm sad it's happening, but I'm glad that we're able to give these stories air, so I don't miss any of it. I'm so glad that we're able to cover stories about veterans that are important and stuff that, like Trump, would crowd out of the way because he would tweet something so
deranged or racist, or you know just something that just pushed everything else away that we couldn't get to the more substantive stuff, because the President of the United States was telling for congresswoman of color to go back where they came from. You have to cover that right. Yes, it's weird, there's still this shadow, but at the same time I look back and those four years seem like they happen like twenty years ago. Right just the last three months of I think what in realising the moment which you can now really clearly, now is just being on edge day after day, not knowing at any point what could happen either. I dont think that something that I really. Put in a words are talked about with other people are just be like. Why wasn't it weird just wake up and within two
I saw how could break loose and then once that's removed, it's almost like having laid bad cavity in your mouth, beggarly, Oh, I didn't realize that's why my head hurt for two years. This is nice, it's so kind of peaceful today, nothing's happening, I'm just worrying about the patriots are gonna. Take of the second round of the draft, and that's that's my biggest dilemma today. Yeah. I know it's like when you're sick, you're really really sick and you are in the throes of it and you, like God. I never appreciate, despite not being said, I how well I M normal well behaved furious and you know how want to cover just normal debates about issues, and I want to have then on to talk about like why we shouldn't pull out of Afghanistan, not like why her position the moon, landing wasn't, faith is controversial, you know,
This episode is you by Captain Morgan. It doesn't matter which sport you watching it's always exciting, to see a backup come off the bench and really let it up. Substitute that makes the same game retain feel knew well. The same goes for drinks. If you want to switch things up. Sub in the captain. I've made this happen couple terms in the weekend. Actually, you know I've been trying to get away from the second cup. Face a yellow, calf, unaided soda, I won't say which kind, but you can guess he makes a captain. Saturday drank as you watch it day, watching little Gough NBA, something that particular happened. Your step with better now visit Captain Morgan that come to find captain near you drink responses. Captain Morgan original spice from premium caribbean ram with space and other natural flavors. Thirty, five seneca by volume, Captain Morgan Rum Company, Newark Newark this episode
Seven Spock asked his body by legal zoom. Legal zoom was to help the experience that smile inducing pulse quickening no going back now moment when your idea becomes a reality when you leave and all the is and codes. And you say: let's do so legalism is here to help you turn your passion, your idea, your dream into something official, legal, zoom, satellite firm and something accessible innovative. So, whenever you're ready do somethin awesome legalism is here to make it official legalism. Let's make an official. What is it? What's the fair criticism of sea in the last couple couple years in your man. I mean, I think you know, I think, one of the criticisms that ah see in our budget, I think there was a real if it was very difficult to cover trump in the Trump era for any number
during any number of periods. First of all there was this earlier we came, he announced he was running thinking like June, May or June alike July or August. He was number one in the polls in the Republican Party and he would these rallies nobody had ever seen anything like before, at least not in modern politics movie. You know, maybe Father Cough winner, William Jennings Brian or something was something like but he's extemporaneous bizarre, entertaining offensives. Long, rallies, tv news covered them. While the wall, but I think my boss, jobs workers, said if you could go back. He would do that the way you did but everybody debt, I mean all the arts did it, and I think that that was a mistake as Jeffreys acknowledge, because then give equal time to other candidates. By the same token, he was this fund
modern on, and people were watching me whether they live I hated it. They were people just couldn't stop, and then I think you sleep the indecency of it all. It took a long. It took a little while for everybody to figure out and not everybody did that you know we in the media could stand up for facts and truth and decency without being partisan about it. Like it's, okay to say, hey you shouldn't call a ban on all Muslims entering the country, because that's unconstitutional and completely big it. But I ain't because we, never really in the news. Media hasn't been presented with anything that stark and so sometime it took a while for for a lot of people to understand how to cover it and cover it well and cover it fairly and accurately and standing up for the right things without being partisan. But you know
I still think there are a lot of lessons that a lot of people haven't learned. So when you're mattering a debate, what's the sports equivalent of that, is it like a like being the referee of a prize fight or in your position, you almost have to be like the quarterback, who can't throw any picks has to get every snap from the center perfect you basically the perfect debate for you is, if nobody's talking about you after right other than this say. Oh, he did a good job, but what else do we need to know about what it's like to have that job for two hours?
it was a very difficult job and once you do it like, you know it's it's! U reluctant to criticise what I'm you wanted, the things that so I did. I did two debates into doesn't fifteen sixteen one of them had eleven candidates on the stage, the Reagan, library and seen the valley. I would not recommend that we have not fun was three hours. The air conditioning broke, I mean it was. It was a mess via I've. I think it was a good substantive debate as
things, go but its very difficult because you had eleven candidates in there all J J J D take another all yelling, my name to the next one I did was nay. I thank our March made knows March to those explain. It was only their down for candidate stand. Crews Rubio case you can from now is much easier. The one thing I'll say, and I you know I have done some debate since then. Democratic candidates is you're going to get, especially if you're a lot of candidates on the state there's, there's only two ways you can go. You can be tough on time and stopping people from talking when they exceed the time limits in which you get criticised. For being, you know, A have already asked about the time or you can be too easy, Walk all over you, in which case you ll be criticized, for that
really is be little room in between. So I remember I did it and democratic debate in the trade in our lotta candidates. People criticise me for likes. Thank you sooner. Thank you. Thank you so much effort for stopping them, but then, like the converse until you get down to two or three candidates in which you can really where, if you get down to two or three candidates, nobody criticizes you. Basically, unless you out like up when Chris Wallace had, which was Donald Trump Fault, not cressets, witches, somebody's taking complete, but in a normal situation like when we had the Biden, Bernie Debate at the end of two thousand and twenty, it's only two people so nobody's buying for time. But if you have a lot of camp, I guess did I say, is I don't recommend doing it early in the process when their allotted him? It's because it is very difficult to pull off and rightly criticized. If you care about be criticized, it's almost like how boxing referee, you notice him
he's breaking up the action too much, and he knows him if he's not breaking up enough. If you're not noticing, I'm at all, you know is doing a good job, basically the best fights ever the thumb his only there when he actually has to be here- and those are the best debates too. But remember those aren't. You fighters now imagine if there are ten the wreck measures their ten th the mean that honestly, is what it's like. Imagine being the referee of an eleven box. If it's like a bad Arroyo and in wrestling or something you ever gonna, u Ache, imagining it was real. Will you have the other thing which I just think is that's cause I've done. This shows you'll have you'll, have a special election night you'll have like eight people there over the panel's here. You have
like a eighty nine person panel. I remember when I did the NBA show for a couple of years. It was usually four of us right and then there was a couple times they would squeeze in five when we had like a special guest or something, and it was just terrible because somebody's talking came back, then that means for their people are just kind of standing there waiting to talk, it's impossible to have back and forth, and I was like I just don't ever think there should be more than for not just on the show, but any show the NFL Pre game shows they'll have five. It's always one too many with the foot, the subway election stuff. What would you have like there be like nine or ten? I hate the yes and I have the same bias that you do I prefer a panel with two people, three max or even like I just like yeah one. I mean
No, I don't need any if, like Abbe Philip, is on my shell. Need to hear anybody else. I just want to talk to have Phillip or Maggie Haberman or any of these brilliant colleagues. I have yeah these mega super panels. I don't I don't have a say in that it is, not, generally speaking my favorite thing now. Maybe there are focus groups are ratings or something indicating that people love the mega super panels. But to me it's like you know it's like shark, NATO as the slight. Why is in its just some It's not, but I dont know there must be some reason it might be. Everybody wants to playing on big night selection nights in the regions. All call in I don't know. I don't know what it is. I am generally in favour of the two person or three person discussion.
I just think it such as such, because it's like here's an idea, all that's interesting. Here's another idea, ears and not you know like everybody's working together in paying off each other. You have terrible people everywhere are trying to say so site the dinner analogy right. If you have a dinner at Psych. You mean one other person you mean to other people, we can get a table for four and we're just all kind of playing off each other. But then, if you go two hundred and fifty six basically table of segments and then there's two different conversations happening, then you get to eighth and you might as well just be at two different tables. There's no pay, Diner TED, it's even crazy. There must be some study, though, that people love seeing lots of people on the tv screen that there is actually some sort of ratings boost from it. That's the only way I can imagine and make them May I also thank you, know, there's also like a lot of different kinds of analysts right when you're, putting together piano
yeah, there are a million different kinds of diversity. There is racial diversity, gender diversity, ideological diversity, professional Firstly, here's a panel of pundits Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives progressives, you know, etc. Here's a panel of journalists- you know I mean so I think that's all part of it that there's just like you know everybody all. I love and Jones. I wanna hear he asked to set. You know everybody has their favor an arm and a just waiting for their favorite, I mean I'm. Sure there's a reason, but I agree with it, Well, I didn't like shows are not in my view that this actually, who knows whether or not their better? If I am not even talking about the viewer experience, to be honest, I am talking about the moderate, your experience as a moderate,
it's easy to have two or three people well and then you're ear. Constantly you basically like appoint guard on a basketball team that has nine people on it. Trying to set up different people because I can be used, three and three it's of a lot easier d feel I can, I would say, say the sense of humour of this country, maybe for the last two three years is about the worst hit ever been our ability to laugh at ourselves, people that take really everything way to personally and the things you're allowed to make fun of obvious. Today. This has dwindled left and right, but you general egg is like. Is this the most serious you feel? Like countries that were banned. I know there's a lot of different reasons for it. I guess for what you're doing, maybe it doesn't maybe doesn't affected that much. But that's the reason I'm asking is just you see like and live, which is always a barometer of this stuff and they they've been trying
do you know the different new stuff the last few years and as soon as up went away. It was like this cloud. Moreover, over the show- and they got way more experimental were able to do stuff, but it just at the moon. In general, just from where you're for what you do for a living. Had he see it such a complicated question, I mean so many reasons for all of us. As you know, I mean there's, there are political divisions, ideological divisions in my wife, and I often wool were kind impinging on on thirty rock right now, and I have that yet you could do today. Right, I mean just a ton of it are, is is making fun of its that making fun of racial stereotypes, I'm not being racist themselves.
Now we're making fun of people who are racist kind of thing, but now nobody would even do that anymore. Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a lot of stuff that you there's a lot of stuff that you can't touch, and some of it is probably for the best- and some of it is definitely comedy deadening. You know, first of all, I'm old enough to know, because I used to watch. I used to sneak down stairs and watch the original, not ready for prime time players, so I'm old enough to know that, like everybody always complains best besides, it is true. Gesture is the one constant in my life is that everybody is always talking about how much they don't like the current, castor. The current show or whatever five years ago yet again always.
And the truth of the matter is that even if you go back and like watching those old shows in the seventies the classics like The comedy right issue like if they had two and three really good gets, think that's when you now get inside baseball. I mean I don't I don't know who did you and Saturday I love? Was it sedateness originally? No back then. So they only started doing you a few years ago that they always darted jazzy. Sixty. No. No, I was never you talked about. Bennett about it have you met him now, I've, never, madam, I tried tweeting him. He was not interested. He first you have. He hated went across the beams. I think he's here. Rational, you know, you didn't you don't get too close to a source material
I thought he did a pretty good job. They stopped doing me, though oh you're out yeah, I don't yeah, they stopped doing me, the last gift that I think they did with me was when I stopped booking Kellyanne Conway and they did a thing about like me, not booking Kellyanne Conway and it was like fatal attraction. I don't know if you remember it was like a a attractions get em down. And I was asked what I thought about it and I said to my wife thought it was sex as what she did. She's a super feminist and she thought it was sexist. Why would why they sexualizing Kellyanne you know and and then I never did Again- I thought. Maybe they were like.
Expired. You holding your all. Your wife thinks for sexist, well, see how you like not ever being impersonated. How do you take? What do you do with your show, the next couple of years? How do you make it more interesting for you? Well, first of all, two hours a day, I'm like a kidney candy store, because- and I have this great team that I put together and I mean how do we make it more interesting? Like I mean it's so interesting like, for instance, I listen to an episode of this american life a few days ago. They did a great episode about frankly on the republican pollster, doing a focus group trying to figure out how to sell the vaccine to republican voters who are skeptical- and I was like this is so good. This is so interesting and I wonder if he's I want a very even got back renewed after is just a really good. Shall I mean that's it? That's a radio show.
And I reached out to Frank and told me that five of the twelve had- and so I just say to my staff, like let's book, Frank and use the focus group and talk to him about how do we do. This is a big problem in the country right now. Forty four percent of Republicans won't give accident, and we need them to give access to achieve heard immunity. How do we do it? In a frank, we have room to do it with the time to do it to have a conversation with Frank play. Clumps of these people, scientists, I'm again the candy store, I'm the most accurate with the boat. Most important thing I can do is not do what cable has been criticized for in the past I think appropriately? So just you know far outrage of the day. Nonsense fate conflict, let's not I feel like the viewers right now or in the place where they are hungry for, like real substantive you knowing
Jane entertaining, but not empty calories news stories, and as long as I can do that. Totally excited and happy to be doing my job, it's fun. I wonder if the discourse on podcast has kind of helped elevate, the potential of a show like that right where people are used to hearing certain type of conversations. If you have two hours you can have, you can kind of capture the spirit of those conversations and some some longer segments and by picking topics that maybe aren't like the stereotypical up starting at the top here, Republicans are mad, like you actually can have more ambition than that.
It gets definitely fair and because I I think that I have to say I have spent you know a lot whenever I'm driving update basically was being and listen either pastor, they methods, that's pretty much. If these citizens and at the park answered death, they definitely elevate the conversation, the ones I was into anyway. I can feature something I am sure there are four or oriented they do not enhance our understanding, but, generally speaking, what I listen to doesn't, I think, that's probably fair that at least for me and my show, I think that that the desire to make people feel smarter and better informed is something that is. It is definitely, I think, encouraged by chance. I think also
There's a lot you know when you're in it, when you a job. If you get a lot of feedback, but not all of its positive sum it you know they have some of them. Some other people make good points. I remember this guy you on green tweeting at me, like I ve, no seven or eight years ago like basically saying you have this perch like. Why are you not covering climate change more and it really had an effect on and we really started covering it much more because I was like he's right. I wasn't trying to appease Elon, but he's like he's right. He makes a good point. What are we going to tell our kids? Are we covering this? Are we not covering, so I do think the feedback. Also, if you have the ability to listen to the stuff, when it's actually a point is being made,
It has been helpful to do. You get feedback from the kids, yet there that quite old enough to have said what are they? Thirteen eleven yeah yeah yeah, it's interesting when you kids, when you hit that thirteen fifteen range. All the sudden, though drop some oysters. Everyone's Roma are some pearls, nuts and oysters. My kids rarely but they are more they're into their world. My daughter is, I only started, I think, really impressing her when people were on Tiktok. Talking about me in a positive way. Kids were kids were talking about in a positive way using my facial expressions is means are or were, and that was like wow. I yeah really amid the big time, it's a little frightening that Tik Tok has become so powerful. I just joined, I just joined,
our generations going to join it and what we're going to I'll make it less cool. But for now it seems like it's, it's the dominant force for two thousand and twenty under. Basically, I will say that by joining I have already exponentially made like me to less, for there is no question like especially to my children, I'm sure, but look I mean you know like with Willie Sutton and the money. You know why you rob banks, that's where the money is. I mean that's where kids are and if, if you are a person person for your content provider like you are like I am. I have a novel, that's coming out in a week and all that that's where people under, as you know, that's where people under twenty twenty five are they're not on Facebook, they're not on Twitter, definitely not on Facebook, yeah Some of them, I guess, are on twitter, but generally speaking, they're having they might be on twitter, but they're having fun on pico right
There is still a stab Chad and Sudan Twitter study that they have secret lives that we don't know about in the grand they post photos. People look at an ethic tat is where the real creativity is going for better or worse, but lily. You know the bar of Just adds and having a million people see what your videos on Tiktok is basically as low as it can get if its decent well, you can't really appealing to kids how old your kids, I have my daughter just turn. Sixteen o my son. Thirteen so they're right in the middle of it right now with the tick Tock Rob show. I meet a funny thing to me, as you can only posed a video. That's a minute I'll. Take that right. That's that's! There used to be lower now, it's! I think it's up to a minute here Funny thing is, I mean it's interesting, because one of the things I do every day is I posed for my team. Rather, my staff posts
Every segment from my show on Twitter is kind like awaited, showed yours what I'm doing or if you miss dead and also its I kind of like accountability. Here's what we did that! The social media team will send me they will pick on their own two or three segments, and I did that that usually interviews or maybe if we have some special long package done from indi or something they'll send me those I'll all them on them. On my facebook, but Instagram can't I anything post anything it's too short yeah, But there may be some adoration down the road where that might be, how kids get news there might be some way to take to grab little kernels from a show like yours and kids, see that and it's I don't know. I just feel like that generations going to get basically everything from it by my son's, like learned about bass
from Ticktock. That's funny. I don't really understand he'll just come to me and be like add Ellen. Ever since two thousand and one Mvp season, it'll have like three facts from it. I'm like, where did you we Why? Why are you even telling me? I saw a tick talk, but it just seems like people, the kids get a lot of information from they definitely get stuff, but I just wonder, like I hope that maybe it's you know: what's the palate and learn more really share a lot in a minute right. Have you hope that they'll have a pallet? I mean a minute is not allowed its mark, my son, my son, my son, it's eleven, he watches Youtube videos yeah, I'm here I'll be amazed by it, but he'll learn like you, ve thought himself how to play chess watching you to wound he arm. He just knows that he knows things like incident
more war. Now he to learn about the Vietnam WAR. We ve talked about the Vietnam WAR, but you like watches these Youtube videos. To learn about things like that to me is. You can learn a lot more on a fifteen minute piece on Vietnam are half hour. Whatever I worry about the Tiktok. I dont worry about generations acres. They seem great to be honest, but as you worry about about takes out being too short, before we go give me one Jimmy Kimmel story that he'll get mad, that we discussed than the purchase. I'm proud of you ve done him since what
wait, has corresponding thinner. That's when you guys, with two thousand ninety thousand year somewhere, like nine ten rain trade Merlin. Likewise conciliatory for the whole weight housework before I die out, they everyone's don't belong to say like he's as you he is one of the kindest sweetest it's Actually, knowing you now. It's amazing that he does the hollowing candies dealing with for the kids. How are we heading for rapid being this bit? It is the sole me then he is the opposite Is it so I had done a piece for night when I was in ABC News: I'd done a profile of Sarah Silberman back when she was dating Jimmy Camel they broke up, but when he was doing the White House Correspondence dinner. She called me and said, Can Jimmy call you because he doesn't know I've never done anything like this before as it sure the truth of the matter is. I probably steered him to do.
Noirtier, want your quality. Then I, like that's my back like I he probably even broader, but anyway he did a good job. The last time we saw him. We were out there my wife, his friends of Molly, his wife and but we're all France end up. I went out there and my son Jack. We were in first of all these kids with yours, I'm sure they breathe such rarified air. I mean there's Jimmy Kimmel, making them pancakes right. I mean he loves to cook for people, as you know, he's making the pancakes and my kids are just sitting there like. Oh no big deal. An Oscar host is making them breakfast anyway, so my son, who is the character Says so Jimmy Camel am I presented? This point is nine. He says you know my dad says: you're a Canadian, but you ve got
made me laugh. This is when we've been staying there for about a day, you haven't met it's Miller, okay, dead series like how. How dare you call yourself? commissioner. I have been here for twenty four hours and jimmy- and this is this- is urgent because that's not true when you walked in, I said such and such and July, and my son was oh yeah. That's right! That's true by Jimmy, had remembered in his brain. This is what I made this nine years. Went fight, Freddy QUIET, like a classic Canadian, like keeping an eye on what works for what members of which audience so anyone that's a good one, also cause it involves Jimmy argue with somebody which is another secret train. If this is who is render argue about anything. It's really a story about my son and poorly were Than it is about Jemmy button.
Your book. Oh so it's called the devil, may dance and I wrote a book a couple years ago called the Hellfire club, it's about a republican congressman and his wife moving to Mccarthy ERA, Washington. It's a big mystery in a lotta conspiracies and it did well if we have the best seller less than people liked in it. So I did. This is the sequel it takes place in nineteen sixty two I'll. Send you a copy? It's it's like it that the basic premise is based on a real story, which is then Frank Sinatra after campaigning his heart out for you, Kennedy expected on Kennedy, came out to visit away in nineteen sixty two that he would stay with Sinatra, Sinatra's, Rancho Mirage compound address? This worked until he built build hell up and all the staff so that the president can stay there, but then Robert Kennedy,
The attorney general started getting cold feet and second thoughts about it, because He was tracking down and organised crime, and people thought what your cracking down on from an FBI agent, actually master I can have an organised crime, bigger your brother's friends with Sinatra, who is best friends with them all. So the premise of the book is the Charlie and Margaret my characters go out at attorney. General Kennedys passed to investigate not received his really mopped up? I was very fond right. It was a great escaped during covert and their quarantine, where I could just like leave the world away, will lead the world aside for seconds and like an hour or two drinking bourbon with Sinatra and the right back at him. I think people are like it I'll figure. When is,
is the book out or is it coming? It comes out May eleven. I should have known that before me. When is that that's next week, one week one week from today, there you go alright, alright, I'm glad we finally did this and I still hate the eagles. That's fair enough. I hate Patreon, and now I also hate well wherever, does wherever Brady goes. I won't. I will hate him as well, because he has patriot stink on him. He may never retire? He might just do a couple years in Tampa and then just go to another franchise. He's like a vampire. He might just never never die. The thing is also like because I like you so good, I mean like you dislike AEGIS What do you feel about him? You must be at least ambivalent about him, leaving made me sad, but I was mad bite fallen, then I bet on him in every a game, and it was great So that's how I made myself feel good by gambling on my only point: is he so good? He doesn't need,
cheap, but we to get to get into that. We want it, we don't either he didn't she, it was never proven now. Unfortunately, it was the same thing without it. Believe me: it completely flood unless it is an excellent point, was it the gloves, do not share. You must have the same. It's the same principle the by listen. It was. It was a sham of investigation. We lost the first round package. I agree with the last drivers. My first gate I have, I can't defence by gate. That's a tough on the brain I do think he got railroaded because I think it, though, is just bad about that after spy gate, he never thought he was going to do it the pats again. That's that's what I tell myself from it tapper. It was great to see you on Congrats thanks bill appreciate it was fun,
I see we never face, I don't have with me.
Transcript generated on 2021-08-10.