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AD's Trade Request, Plus Steven Soderbergh on 30 Years of Making Movies | The Bill Simmons Podcast (Ep. 474)


HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons talks Anthony Davis's request for a trade from New Orleans, and how the Lakers have a unique opportunity to land him before the summer (2:22). Then Bill sits down at Sundance Film Festival with filmmaking legend Steven Soderbergh to talk about his first trip to Sundance in 1989 with 'Sex, Lies, and Videotape,' making the 'Ocean's' movies, shooting on iPhones, his new film 'High Flying Bird,' sports movies, what the future may hold for film, and more (28:45).

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Today's episode of bill. Simmons podcast on the Ringer back ass network is brought to bear. But could you know it's smart sitting out? The third drinking at Sundance, look out and totally sit up. I sat at the I'm like a ban but apparently I can only do back to back. So I can't do three games in a row. I'm out you know what else is: is smart when job sites overwhelm you had tons Erasmus, zip code, I come such bs go there there's a place. They just and people with the right skills for your job. They actively invite them to apply right now, Listeners could dresser beautiful friendship could accomplish B S. Zip creator is the smartest way to hire. Meanwhile, look at our friends from state farm
Well, it's a friend: how can you drive across country to start a new job or a neighbor help any move into a new home? A little help can help a lot, but stay farm help. You protect your car and home with you, very own agent. He had help when you need them talk to an agency at one. Eight hundred state farm state Farm here to help life go right raw sobriety by the re watch about where we have proof of life, increase Ryan, our vanity project for the re watch was podcast. Even if never seen this movie. I urge you to listen. This park asked which is coming out the midnight tonight because we we make case. Why it's one of the most underrated movies of the century away in a listener ticket, but the ringer dot com, a buzz right now with
three Davis, trade speculation, we're gonna get into that right right after we get to our friends from programme and then right after that, one of them, directors, the last thirty years, Steven Spielberg been dying. Have him on. It finally happened. We did at Sundance that is coming up. First, our friends, from project so ahead Sunday, we can just came to check it out great place there. Year anniversary of Steve, Soda Burg, hidden a big here, He's gonna come. I later talk about that but I I've been awhile I'd, forgotten known its.
Allow the feminist industries are obviously documentaries movies. It's a free for all for people that love movies. You're constantly happened goobers and laughs Chanter gets screening that screening it's really fun to being a feeder when, when their permission, Dane everybody's there there's just a certain energy to it. There's a lot of people usually rooting for the movie in and outside it to get expect we came down, you know like to check the stuff out I've been here for so long. I am forget about the energy that sir that's really really kind of inspiring and is the latter, Canada, goose, grip, jackets car carried this is, Canada Goose all over the place and to the point where, if you don't have a Canada goose jacket, you ye like there's something wrong with you. So there's and then you have the way that the body they have met the bodyguards like the bouncers, thereby these clubs, the spaces.
Ever big enough like for these little parties in house parties and events in ages. Don't care who you are and once they fill it to like forty five one thousand five hundred whatever the number is. It could be like Brad George Gloody online- and now just there be some bar bouncer disbelief. Fuck, you guys, you makin it. So it's it's really! it's a weekend controlled by the people, letting matters letting parties people into the parties and and the lifting of drivers have the most power for the iter, We can remember like eight years ago, a mail bag and about said debts say how Sundance bad was by new, fairer kind of mad. Were you just have these? You know these move executives, their fifties, who are you This belief they can't get it no party in there just screaming at this batter whose a photographer the very Many here it's and we we we went out Friday and Saturday night, and I turn
if this year wasn't a great idea so. Nephew Kyle Nigh on Sunday. Wasn't ingrate shape as afraid to go to a screening and I didn't want to be in a movie theater, just farragos trap there get overheated or whatever net Who can I watch the entire TED Bundy Doc you better now so for hours we banned it out. It. It was it was it was riveting. It was really well that I just have one thing to say about TED Bundy: there is that they keep them, but our handsome? He is, and I feel like he's real killer handsome, I don't think he's really handsome, but I think compared to other serial killers, like view comparing and a genuine Gacy Jeffrey Dahmer, and Charles Manson leg? Yeah he's Brad Pitt, but. He serial killer heads up he's not actually like handsomely J F K, Junior was handsome. This guy was. I
I need. You know decent like a guy, but I think Cyril pillar handsome, an athlete funny I related together. Will you talk about like these out, so because hilarious he may be a convenience. I now he's funny for an athlete that actually funny people funnier, like Dave Chapelle, you wouldn't be here, but we break reference funny for an athlete ease, athlete funny he's not real Funny Charles Barclays, the only athlete we had over the last thirty years. I was actually legitimately funny, but I think athletes Sarah color handsome. I too my favorite so. If you have any more like that email them to the mailbag at the rigour that car because of a sick, he had this bit of fun. Given for the pot, I want everybody, many Davis really quick the requests by the case today. We should feel this common for a while. We were about it. Kevin O Connor wrote about it. Late December, we have talked about on this package, multiple tabs. This
were really planted from the moment he had rich PA who runs clutch, which also happens to be the agency that I guess Rep and so broad jams, probably more than that, but Lebron James posts for the Lakers Anti Davis wants to be a big barcoe, the team that wants to the championship. You can see where this is headed a few months ago. What's interesting is the Lakers have basic, a two week window here to get him, because if it goes the trade deadline, then the south things can get him Bob. Do thanks to this stupid role, where you can have two designated prayer contract Ex Contra goes the same thing. They have career rarity, yellow where they get Anthony Davis's Detroit Careering Forum, which are not going to do so? The Lakers have two weeks here to basically repay for Davis to make sure they ghetto cause. Once we get to
the summer, it's just can be lot lad. Tougher they're, not gonna, have the same kind of that they do now. If you look around the landscape everybody's coming up with what are the, what are the fake Anthony Davis, there. We talked about one on a package: Caboose go Benjamin's and you know maybe the Miami future first rather than from Miami, and maybe one other thing for Davis. I think, is a really interesting trade that should be explored by both thieves, because if- fairly- and you haven't been in david- says you're anchors for the rest of the decade, you could argue that gives you a better chance to win a title than abated. Simmons acts access. I just argued it catch for them would be. Would you want to stay word in other others agency staff for their takers NBC a thin Davis, COD, It is that kind of work been Simmons is already. There is a clear guy to catch. Guys gave each for each other. So that's a fun when it
but on paper I dont know how realistic it is, especially because of However, the how the Jimmy Bother thing is is gonna go. I think. One thing that I haven't, I haven't been surf. Nonetheless, Cabo surfing the internet, thus cupboards, but one thing is. If New Orleans trades Davis, it also really make sense. For then the trade drew how'd age is completely blow it up and start over, and I radically, even though he came from fairly and was the centre piece of the trade that launched the process where they got to first round picks form where where I fear of getting They ve neurons and I can't remember what the other one was Michael Carter Williams. Now, maybe they took my whatever they got. They got two first Round picks forum, but I actually think he makes a ton of sense coming back to Philly because if they could figure out they can put. Let's say Smith, the Miami pay.
What it whenever they need to do, to get your holidays, locked up on a grey contract and is actually a perfect guard for that team because he can go the other things point cards is incredible defender, but then on a fancy likes to play off the bar, which is good for Simmons, so of New Orleans doing this correctly, you'd want to trade Davis. Any you'd want to trade drew how they need one about amount. You wanna get a top five pick any private which merited too so well see if they can do that, they have you, no one of I think the most controversial organizations their own by them- its owner, they were dealt Debs as their GM. This TED, gave he was the one that made the Chris Paul Trade that David stirred hated so Barucci vetoed, which led to some good grantline pieces for me, but I don't know the delta, I don't know. If I don't know if this is the guy I'd want pulled all the strings hair. Is it try to figure out the future of the franchise? And the other thing is
You even trade him now. Do you just wait till the summer? If you keep and he's playing that actually met her ear lottery pack. So it would be well, I bet you are based on our senses to try to shade him over the next two weeks and China have the team bottom out in a big way. I had so what's that trade, I think with the net, if you get, pausing is back. The next made a big deal about. Have they want to be in this? You can't the pausing aces You know he's been in the week a couple years now nuance, Trade Davis for somebody who also might leave Dave gotta turn him into draft pigs in pieces of guys who are actually stuck there, which is why the Boston Celtics packages so appeal?
like whether they want a potato minute or not and the summer, but their budget draft picks and a bunch of leg ways for the package, the kind of control whose on their team, so I too me it's really Lakers or Boston. I anybody else it's just too risky, because again he has the chance, not share, but next year he could leave and he's made pretty clear. He wants to play for championships difference of making a hundred and seventy five million verse twanging forty million. He doesn't really care or what whatever those numbers are and he he's really motivated by the titles. I think the red flags are. He's a little trouble stain on the court. He kind of add one foot out there
for this whole season, which in general is a policy. I don't love if you're, if you're supposed to be one of the three best players in the league which town was he is I can't I wanted him to do what he did last year, where he just put the Perkins on his back after buggy went out as I fuck this, or that going down like some were making the plants and I'm gonna kick ass, did he's statistical, has been really good this year, but I don't feel like its. It doesn't feel like it's a get on my back types. It feels like its headed for an uneasy initiating and, if you're New Orleans, this is basically the future basque Abad State for you now, because if you can't keep this guy. And the reasons you can keep Omar, because it's a small market you were unable to build the right team around him and then, Ask about is never really succeeded there, you can see in the games. You could see the empty seats,
barely any media find them Ours is a football team through and through, and there's just better locations for this team. If you can't keep Anthony Davis, see got that hanging over to this is a really important trade for them. To say the least, because if they screwed up, I think it creates a path for to leave and go to Seattle in the next three years here's, a Vegas, Sir, wherever they might end up, they have to now this trade last time they did it. They did not know the Chris Paul Trade, it didn't work. And they lucked out because they won the ladder and they won Davis and if they got in the second pick instead of the first pick, they get Michael Kidd, Gilchrist or Bradley Beal rather be able to be nice, but but they really lucked out cuz that Chris Paul traded not work out. So it's one of the Lakers have to give up. In my opinion, Ingram and Lazo have to be in the trade and if they both have to be in the trade,
If you want to get him now, you have to overpay so they're, not gonna care about first round packs, because the moment Davis through the Lakers. They become a top six or seven times so that picks national matter, and then care about two thousand and forty one or whatever cuz. You know you can be there for a while. So you probably want the pics to be as late as possible, like two thousand and twenty three, two thousand and twenty four forty five you I like to from those years and you to get in Grimmen, you have to get Lonzo or I'm not doing the trade kuzma, who the Laker fans love, is not that good. Two thousand four hundred and fifty cut into is nineteen in six, a game when is take a lot of shots now great three points: shooter defensively, her don't think he's ever an norstar gang grim and lots of both have chances to be our stars. You know I've said this a million times. Em
on the front seat of the Alonzo Bandwagon. I love Lazo, I still believe in Lotto. I can get Ingram and Lonzo, and some down the road and expiring. Sir. That's where I want to be found. The Lakers. I'm sorry, the pelicans and even better, if I can dump a contract from next year because they have if I'm the Lakers, I'm like, I'm, not taking more any contracts beyond the Davis contract, but if I'm the power cuz, I'm at least trying to dump like the Solomon Hill contract on them, or something like that. This is the other. I actually. I went back and tried to figure out just what the parallel this is Will you have somebody who is the top five? I work at worst top three guy at best opinion, if herself he's happy just becoming available, so I went back and looked through all the guys who have been attacked
three m VP, so many nay, the finished first second and third place before they turn like twenty eight and which is not a long list of of guys have been trade. If you go back or it's like, wilt Chamberlain got traded. What was selfish, you can read my book for my book aided by great after use, urging, like forty points again negotiated Korea, our trade in eighteen. Seventy five- that was the kind of modern Basque, about trade. Where you had somebody saying I'm late, Next, you should show me now very somewhere to this, and cream was the main is one of the foremost It is about time item thirty, my burglar brands probably pass them but got traded leg at its apex me with cream was unbelievable when traded, he was the best in the leg, was close in that they didn t the classic four quarters for dollar trade
Moses Malone Castrated, which were any time people have this conversation. There is forget, you know Moses, got side, you an offer. By fully used to match than they traded on my thing for Cobbler Jones, a really nice pick that fully had. I think it was a Cleveland pick but Moses Moses was probably the best personally for five years and for the five Spanish, seventy nine eighty three, which is makes it so crazies just getting his number attired by they re now, but but he got traded lots of morning a trade in eighteen. Ninety six figures on the level of the guys we're talking about, but he did. When some twenty one, a top three mvp after you get traded Chris Paul Carmelo Dwight, Howard Kauai. Now those guys became TAT three every piece after they get traded there
he's pretty you need. This is basically you Talkin about well Karim, Moses, Anthony Davis, I think, are the best ones pain, others think Dwight Howard was really get. I think there's Dwayne Carmel. I think you're, the two guys that the way the last few years have gone have had made. People cannot forget how good they were doing errors the best centre in the week four six seven years and was somebody that a lot of people that one the european two thousand Levin and some people voted from its exact clover from actually but available. Within a year knows a big deal and he got traded Davis. The high level cause he's twenty five, and you know I think. Wait out and ever newer version? One? Inevitably, I think, there's. I would be surprised if Anthony
didn't when in every pay specific playing with the broad, so we'll see how this goes. I I really feel like this is a pivotal. For the hitters cause. You know, I don't know how many years abroad is gonna. Be able to play at this level is already had this guy great injury, the shearers missed a month and it just in the old days. He didn't miss a month of ventures. So you know do you think, there's a window at this and their quit their cotton theirs Crossroads of they have all these young deeds in there have this guy who's. I grew. Titles now needs a sidekick and through, I mention this is cause. If it's not Anthony Davis, you start looking I like I will. Who else could it be? They didn't get Paul George.
All the other guys around the league are pretty much there. There's there's a weird, three possibility that I don't feel like can be ruled out now that they're getting along again, maybe maybe that somebody to look at but just for the most part. This is the best guy. That's going to become available, over the next twenty four to thirty months and this is their chance to get him and then get the third theme, guy this summer, but you could also compete now for a title with the brain at the Davis. So I would bet on the Lakers, Graham, I would bet on on them overpaying in the past, it being a little more severe with stuff there giving up the? Maybe people realize it's gonna be cause, if you're the Falcon July click this zoo windows, the South Ex just have more stuff. We get to the summer, the south exerting now for the south, you're freaking out because you don't want the waitress skidded Davis. So You should hear position where you negotiating with them, but you can't trade form, but
could be like hey look man in June in June. Here's what we're thinking. What then that's really heard the south is the Sacramento pick. Not been as juicy as I think we thought it was going to be. That is, I don't think they going to make the playoffs, but that's a pic, that's going to be in the eight to twelve ranch and they were bottom. Five team now would be a much more significant pick, because now we have three potential franchise guys in this Draft, including to the most exciting prospects we ve had Thirty years I Anna Maria so fascinating, When we talked about this a lot over the next two weeks. This does not happen. Often I will not tire talking about where it did, Davis's gonna go and whether it makes sense to trade in hour later stay tuned. I forgot. The only other thing I would mention Basque was never get to a sort of it. So I thought this out this way this game is really really really informer.
On Saturday night. I first about it. It showed to me that this, they have a level of them that they can get too in a big stick tat. They can rise to the occasion against a really good team. Eight. I didn't even fight the ethics that unbelievable, but they're just good. They just have a lot of time, when there are kind of aligned gets the one team right now that can kind of at least hang with the warriors added. The problem is the Celtics by lose before they even get to the files, because they screwed. So in so many different ways, I just don't think more gear Toronto. Has the athleticism em and somebody like Tiree and you know, were fired in there, just our best bet to give. The word is a good one In my opinion, right now, unless mark, he makes it the problem Ms Heyward has been so bad that its
it's now liability and its we're, because he's so the play maker? They need off the bench to kind of kind of run the offence when carrying out there, so they have to keep playing them and they have to hope that by April it's it's gonna rob at his confidence is gone. It's gone an end. It was obviously sad I played in that where's game. He was really bad on both ends and just look like just look like last, and that was a really big stage in a big mama firm and they need it because one cuz, I have an advantage in words, is to play him in jail and and and Tatum. At the same time you have size and all these wing spots you could switch and if he's just shot their religion have to figure out to eat just give up on this for this year and jail in those minutes and really try to eat work with what we have or do we hold onto this hope that here it's gonna turn around and now it's the second week of February and were two months away from the
and there is no signs yet that he's gonna turn around the flip side. Is watch. Paul Georgetown. Ok, see, I think, he's the third best guy, the sham fur. Ftp you'd, be, I would have a number three right now does mean, is their best piracy. Most third most valuable this season, and it took him years. Back from the injury. Add which are similar in Sofia. South Ex you're, looking back, I may well maybe that I've been Gordon Gordon was an inscrutable, whereas Paul Georgiana think but his but it's a shiny, really hurt them. The other issue that game I would I was so wrong and cousins? I don't think he gonna and this year I really thought the warriors were not going to win the finals this year. I even said that probably took three weeks ago on this podcast Boogie came back and I think it's done a couple things for them. I think it's invigorating them It's like the new character in a tv show who just makes the show more fun he's basically he's Richie Approach,
or or Rafi It's just why our Ralphie Sir see what's new, foresees a three hour: Ralphie, ok, energy, the energy that he brings there. I thought I said this last year I thought look stale last year because I think there did you can use to each other at this point and when he's in there just different this guy who composed up? Who sets these big? Green studies spoke about twenty thousand, who could space before and then a defence can really kind of banks and bodies, and I think the resentment this is about it good in that sought. The game he's thought you, sir, his legs, are still gonna come back. He seems like he's about eighty two, eighty five percent right now from wearies, eventually going be Defensively he was really impressive in that camp. The way that I sought to Sir just trying to get him in picking roles in China suppose him and he was making the right decisions and doing the right things and
really reminds me of Bison daily and ninety seven when, when he came in there on a bulls team that add one. Seventy two they headed for sixty nine. There is getting a little stale. He came in just gave them a little extra and end a shot in the arm and cousins is much better than that daylight, but the stuff he brings to the table they just never had before, and it's maybe completely rethink If he's gonna be healthy, the share I just having it could can them. I too hard. You saw the subjects the other night when Toda tone the where's got a couple stops made. A couple plays an issue, you hard and now they have looks now they can go big. They can go small, they can play dream on as before they can play terrain the three like: it's fucking, crazy. So I went
I'm thinking this cousin thing, was totally overblown to not thinking that it's going to ruin the playoffs, that's where we are lots more to discuss Davis and all the stuff over the. The week I have we're gonna put out a new trade Bailey. Four January, I did not write anything this month because we, swear to some other staff so worried, and it was just because I wanted to keep the monthly list out when you put that our media pie cast about and try to explain. Some decisions. I still want to write the actual trade ban, probably that either in February and March, but I wish to put the new stout and what's fun, and this is, though, the by favorite thing about this. Many things have changed like I did the last. James Hardened was like twelve in outside Houston trading have started for Janius, that's it so it accounts for a lot of that stuff, Oh George made a big move. Some other guys slid the other way and we're gonna run that this week, Amadeo POD token bail out of that stuff among us of Super bone whole bunch of things
mass, no doubt on pads, I'm going sounds against all odds, pod we're gonna do, most of our giant Superbowl prop podcast on that package, with the trifecta. And that sounds gonna come on mine. Will pick our favorite props from that past? Do rest on mine and I'll. Do the gave us a bit so there go we're, take break and then come back with the one Stephen sobered read after this hey, let's take a break to talk about roman guys are terrible. Taken care. There have studies, show of seventy percent, guys experience wrecked our destruction to knock achieved for it. That's bad. The thing- as people realize it is like a czech engine light for a man's body could be it It is something more serious is going, I'm like a hard issuer diabetes. Thankfully our spots are roaming it is an easy, discreet, waiting had checked out by a doctor and a treaty for media mind it's a ones shop? Licensed? U S. Physicians can dagger three d than shipmates re from their pharmacy to your door with Roma
and the weight in waiting room still any awkward faced, face conversations or make any uncomfortable trips. The pharmacy just visit, get roman dot com, Slash Bill plead a brief outline visit once or doktor ensures that treatment will be safe and effective for you. They can prescribe FDA, approved medication to boot, delivered indiscreet packaging to your door free to day shipping go talk to the doktor. Edi can be tough to tackle its really important, to get a checked out the Roman. It's really easy to take care of it. Today, Roman, is giving my listen a free I my visit and free to day shipping. I get roman slash bill check it out, now. This is great Monday morning here, Sundance here, with the guy who's, widely credit for being the first Sunday break at one thousand nineteen, eighty, nine thirty years ago years steer and Soda Soderbergh still walking around When you were here in nineteen, eighty nine overwhelming what was alike
What do you mean it couldn't bear even one twentieth as big as it is now. It was very different. It was called the. U S, film Festival, yeah point and hadn't become the market that it became the year after yes, actualize yield darted it well, There were a couple of films that were here that it was a good year that year there are some really good movies yeah, but it certainly. It certainly was part of a wave that I think, was inevitable in the late eighties. Early nineties in the eightys was not a great period for studio films. That kind of took over those are all my heroes like crashed and burned yeah, it seventies studios took over and it became a much more corporate business in itself like there was a hunger on the part of audiences to see things that were handmade.
So we ve we sort of surf that I'm so fascinated by that stretch from eighty five dating. I basically is either these are so romanticized. We can't, I watched, don't ask I have seen it a hundred times, but the godfather and godfather, to was unable to last night and we just got so then a godfather to with the commercials, and it's like it's like it's three plus hours long he's telling two different two different there, is there a have worked at its probably the best ever made from start to finish, but I singular cat like it. What what is that movie now? Is that, like I don't know how much book here it is hard to say where you know, I grew up with that dream of working having filmmakers. That word independent mind working in the studio system. Yet you know during that period from sixty six to seventy eight. Seventy nine! You know
what my favorite filmmakers were working for the studios so I was out in grow up as a snob yeah. I to work in that system is well. I just grew up in a suburban. Subdivision in bad merging, didn't know anyone yet so I had to come at it through a different path, but there was a period from, Sex lives at stake through their mid arts where that to be working. You had some really good filmmakers working in the system, and then a kind of one when it I think aid giant? Oh, probably, ninety five, Is there a even his ears past, but it feels this way now, but I think even like twenty five years from now, I think those five six there's gonna be remembered a lot like we remember the seventies. Somebody I gotta interviewed for book that somebody just wrote about nineteen. Ninety nine only area that, unless the films that came in that year and you look at it and it's it's a pretty great,
we do. A pack has caught the reward troubles and I was like the attackers there's elaborate. We like the tide and sometimes to the universities and stuff it. Ninety nine was ridiculous. Is it here and all kinds of movies, tv and movies that you know that we we did this reactions pack has come tomorrow, but this will become proof. Life that I felt like actually was a great movie that didn't get. It's just do what we did it. It's probably like it comes out. Two thousand. It's got Russell Crow at like his lest APEX, regulate gladiators came out Tony your script right. Tony go right and it's just movie that if you put the two thousand Russell crowd into two thousand nineteen he's wearing a cape yes, that doing proof alive. Where's, tights plastic bed. You now I get that part scares me for where things are gone, but then the stuff you do and I saw her fine bird you from their own efforts
you're still experimenting. It's really good. It's really interesting, and that gives me hope that you know I still feel like the experimentations there. It's just. I wonder, like can't godfather two still happen. I don't know I don't either, but I'm all aid. Whenever I get into despairing mood about stuff. I'm also aware that, as feeling that way somewhere in some room somebody's me. Something that none of us know about yet right and it's gonna come out. Then blows so I am always helpful. There's somebody out there I'm always fascinated by that camaraderie, the directors of those seven like that Spielberg Lucas General Copa, those guys a lot of them were were friends, they looked out for each other. You didn't have that experience in the late eighties right already was much more on their own and eventually
Let me say, as you might get up a little bit, I mean there's a. I think, a very I think, there's a good feeling amongst the people. From around that period we were going to Stables together and you'd run into people's Maybe there are those people well that Europe would have been Jim Jarman Finally, we running into each other. A lot, and it was it- was fun from Euro spike in Jim were A handful of filmmakers during the eighties, who were actually making interesting stuff, yeah dependent way Jim in particular, was very forward. King and a sort of legendary within independent from circles, because he owns always negatives, of his movies transfer for people like me, that's gonna guide like how do you even do that so and he still cranking away so like us,
If you told me thirty years from now, you're gonna be back here which Another movie, that's that's in my mind, you can draw, direct line from sex lies to high flying Burke, yet in terms of its attitude in its approach to character. Willingness to embrace a movie, that's about to people in a room for the most part talking you know I'm still hinder that stuff. Why iphones to to Spirea filmmakers that they can use anything they want to form a movie or language contracted. So it's a combination of things one I think I'd like people to its unethical people are aware of How advanced this technology really yeah and what you can do with it for projects like a high flying bird? It's it's the right tool because of the ease of of putting the camera where you want and how quickly you can
so if I had a traditional camera package, even on a headline bird, there were certain things that are We have been able to do exactly the way I wanted. So the film, I think, would not have been any better. It might have been worse. It certainly would have taken longer and so going forward. Now we're about to be in the space where you're going to have a phone about the camera, about size of a phone with a full size. Sensor and that'll be a game. Changer cuz do what's great about the Iphone, so I can put it anywhere. Little. I can velcro it to a ceiling. Yeah can do whatever I want, then that's, that's very liberating. But it's not it's it's. There was perfect for this. You know who sees that kids. Yeah, I've a thirteen year old daughter, eleven year old Son and I live in a way which you know, there's eight. I think allies my artistic than most cities, and you have a lot of kids of parents.
In the film industry are the producers or directors or actors or whatever, and I am amazed by some of the little films that by my kids, friends bade him. I and my kids, a better you down their legality, which do all day shot a horror movie. You did and then their shower, and it's like. While this is that terrible know if I will shut out these tools. Oh my cowering, I think, generation when they hit like nineteen twenty two, these kids out, I've been cause. Other editing stuff is great down. They. These kids are gonna. Have a sense of narrative structure, help stuff how to edit that there's no generation, that's had that. No, no! It's pretty it's pretty incredible. How quickly this technologies advanced in how literally with a laptop you can you can make
really really good. Looking movie like you, really don't need much more than then. What's in your pocket fray and some software and off you go I've seen projects People did credibly elaborate visual effects and it's all adobe after effects they're all doing around your laptop Would you say if I told you that sex eyes, a videotape is my mom's favorite movie like ever without explain at least some of them? There is an interesting law to unpack their cover. It really is that hilarious it comes a cable every. So anxious? I says videotape on HBO Lily system, raising that says, didn't raising movie. I do you realize how where this is that this is your favorite Bush spatters, incredible that that's pretty unexpected. It's really held up. It does not feel date.
Its work as it would soon tat sky would, I would is to me it seems very quaint. Now, yeah that the like always got some tea Like when you, when it seems like a Jane Austen novel to me ever Harry, I what we're going through my guy, but I think, if, if its, if it still able to a whole someone's attention, it's because ultimate that the technology is not really the point of it. Ultimately, now it's it's his case a way of someone creating a barrier between themselves and other people were still going through that now it's just with efforts, a lot more ways to create those bear, yeah, but I mean the part that feels dated. Are you know the collection the tapes again then the vote that, but I think
that movie now, as the years have got on, it's really a movie about sisters and the competitiveness with sisters and just how people can be super close, but also do terrible things to each other, but then forget themselves Gazette related well and also you you. You had four characters who are about to reach an inflection point yeah that, but they dont No it's coming, and so I think that watching that start to turn and you realize of this is literally gonna- be one of those my life where this in my life additives but they're all oblivious to the fact that this is about to happen. I think that satisfying the wash that's one of your favorite, you gravitate towards that idea, indifferent, youth and then a couple, therefore move like yeah here these people. Here it's about the change, yeah we're about to go to point B. Well, I guess I guess, I'm also
tip, to bring us all back to something like high flying bird yeah you know. I think we all we all go through life trying to some amount of control over what happens to us, and mostly illusionary like its it asked me. What we often are are confronted with the hard fact that the amount of things that we can control is actually very small and forget about it. It's your family or anybody close you like that's just not happening, but its clear. That's something that I can I keep returning to characters who think through an active will that they can change this. Situation or the world yeah and usually come up somewhat short D. Think back out there. Get your career which has been written about a million times you of this huge head. Then you have the quorum quote, something you come roaring back, but do you think that's when two decades, since
I say, and then I'll send your year and the best to category four to different fields. At the same time, which I think would happen for what like sixty years like been awhile, I mean that got that when so fast. Where did she like at the moment? Have your career flip light that it will it was. I was trying to sort of keep my eyes forward through the years between Sex lies and out of sight, were actually really crucial to my development. Yes filming and I had the luxury of making five movies that nobody saw and most people didn't alike, but they were. They were each. Really important steps in me trying to figure out what lanes be driving it like what kind of filmmaker empire and part of that process was determining belt. Thirdly, that I wasn't a writer that I had written
but I wasn't a writer I wrote to get in because nobody can stop you from sitting in front of a keyboard but once I let go of that in its own, it's a realist for young writer directors they all want to emulate. There euros, and I realized my wells not that deep when it comes to writing he's not in as soon as I understood that everything got better immediate. And so when you look at those projects, you look it like that run of five films from out of sight through oceans, yet great scripts. Great screenwriters, like everything, got better re to make sense ass. I think I tell this the people sometimes. The successes and failures, the failures were really important. You learn you learn a shitload from them. I wouldn't great anything that that I've done that didn't workers didn't work, as was, I thought it word, because we take what.
Will you get out of it you're starting to get something out of its successes, as it turns out a kind of a mystery and an impossible to under at will- and you just have to. Surround yourself with people that that can it be. Give you the best shot at a having something work. So it's gonna always voted is successes. This kind of, is person you spent a night with he's gone the next morning. You don't know anything about it. I failures like the family that comes out won't leave and you eventually have to like, fortunately kick out of the house, but I If the business is changed in a way that that makes me feel for the generation that's coming up now it is that, had the luxury of those failures like you can't. You can't do that now. If you're young filmmaker, you cannot make five movies in a row that nobody sees you are in jail.
Oh that I feel the end. That is, I think, a necessary part of anyone's evolution, nobody very rare, it's very rare people, don't emerge full blown right out of the gate. It's it's. It's really really rare that that's the case. You need time to develop. Do you think Twitter, just away movies era. Dissected now would I would harmful for you in the mid nineties it that stuff was there if it had been around riotous sex lies. I think I would have gotten into a lot of trouble because I was such a punk yap out. What I thought was good and what I thought wasn't good an term ya. Out of, I would have gotten in some serious hot water. I think just mouthing off about stressors, especially like you know you spend a year on a movie or somethin. Then it comes out, and yet
people should not at ever nearer twenties like the Good NEWS, that, if you ve done, if you ve done these sort of self education about how that stuff works you go back and find that many of your favorite movies that have had a huge impact on you were not lie. I'm certain you weren't successful when they came out and that that's just part of the that's part of the thing I've been I've been I've had a very kind of. But look at it sort of its role. To me in the sense that it can affect the commercial life of the film. If you get good reviews or you get bad reviews depending on what kind of movie it is, but I've never taken it on as any kind of definitive Truth about what tat what we made rang, I just I just
never taken at all like that by the time. I finish something I've been through a process with friends and family. That's Speaking of Tony go right when you invite Tony go right to see a rough cut of one here movies, you better d, you better be prepared four ways. Can I value the real now seize yet he's incapable of hiding how he feels about something, and that's that in the end. Even better news is, if you, the situation in which you need help and you have a problem that needs to be? solved: he will roll up their sleeves and help you so that there is a group of people that I call upon you and I have to take a deep breath before I. I was going to ask you about that. How many peoples at public, twenty, twenty five spread out, and I had one
rector friend of mine on a movie finished movie was finished. Basically we delivered it and I did. He asked Oh yeah, grinning and oversee it, and he watched it essentially, me by the lapels when it was over, he said you need to throw the score that Movie Al It's I don't know what its commercial potential is, as it turns out, the movie had none, but he was it's. It's ruining it's it's one, ask too many, and he was right. He's right. I threw the score out and had one completely,
we written, and that was not something I wanted to hear in that moment, but he was writing my add as friends of withdrawing Gorman who recently passed away- and there is all these different stars Bannerman, whether once and I thought was great- was about he's a sound, so the lamps like a cut of it, and it was a pretty much lacked and is a great great. You should take out their part with the FBI. Director went the by when he gets his jobs in trouble, they just take it out, and I and Demi was like of the film, was locked and it was
in his leg. Let's go back in and see if we should take it out, they took it out. Goblins cassettes like it sounds like over and over again you here that as a theme with directors and storytellers, sometimes to the one thing you take out is the most important part of the whole process. It's it's it's great. That process is impossible to quantify war or predict, because it said fresh, but it's also super frustrating, because you reach a certain point. You, like I've, been doing this for a while, I feel like I should be able to go to the who river by is it turns, every movies different the culture, the mob. In the cultures differently. You just don't know what gonna land and what its it's I'm always surprised things you think are super cleared of people are not, and then things do you think. That's, maybe that's they were being. You know a little too
oblique with this and be with my own eyes two minutes, and I knew that. So it's it's a strange. It's a strange process, but never boring When did you feel like you had command? I, your pitches. Likewise there movie, where you're just say, and how to do this well,. Out of sight- was the first opportunity to really put into use what I felt I learned in the years between sex lies in yeah it was. It was a watershed movie for me in a lot of ways, most him Accordingly, it had two, regardless of how it performed. It was important that it be perceived creatively as a success that I could work within the studio system with movie stars and make a movie that is solid, so I
felt under a lot of personal pressure, while we were making it, and I had to do a jet. I mind trick on my side. On set to pretend. Is there I was on the set of skits operates, read it I could do, if ever I wanted, which is what I did you just when its nineteen seventy one I can do whatever I want and- and I followed that and I had the support of my car. Did my producers in the studio, so I was very fortunate that. Once that happened, and I was on the other side that I felt like. Ok, let's go like. I set up a bunch of projects right on top of each other, because I felt I feel- seeing the ball like let yeah, let's go, and so that the five movies in three and a half years that was a good I have no idea why out of sight didn't do better when it came out everything summer we want. Thus the concern up. Unlike in October, we were supposed to come out in October and they do they mean.
I what what happened was me. Joe black was behind schedule. Major black was supposed to summer and they were behind that's it, you gonna do by the head of the studio who gave me the job said I gotta pee, from here on summer, movie you're dying, you're ready, it's a good movie and I went ok, your call, but It doesn't feel like a summer. I mean it weird way it worked out, but a providence, although at the time, because it's a below moving us. If I get perception of it is that it was. It was successful, TAT, a good news in retrospect. Nobody realises like it till we get crushed by Armageddon, actually outshines, isn't so, but again it will. It did for me what I needed to do. It did for George what it needed to do. We we, we hope. At exactly the right moment. We both needed this movie jazz work, and so that started a relationship that turned out to be very fruitful, so was good. That was that was
one I had Sorkin was on this package two weeks ago we were talking about timing. Luck. Like how you mean that secret ballot, just how incredibly important it is to catch people at the right point, sometimes with moving totally. You Clooney a jailer at probably like the absolute perfect time you would have wanted them to make that movie. I liked I still am discovering Jello United sooner couple things by it. That. Much about are those the first time I really felt like spinning two hours, a jailer including was the doktor had a really made a big in a movie it and we do know if he could carry one there's like area. He can go yeah. I think we were both viewed as people with potential yeah and in the questions were starting to come up like, and when are we going to see what we think we see and so yeah. He and I bonded very quickly over that meat.
Like we have very similar taste in movies anyway, so it just we just sort of fell into this very, very fast Was it a coincidence that you just that working with huge stars after that? Do you gravitates it out? No, I think It's it's a matter of understanding. What's gonna be best for the project and not shying away from the fact that movie stars are a very important tool in your arsenal. They ve been with us since the beginning of cinema, there's no wrong with putting movie stars in a movie. It's only a problem when their misused, yeah or it seems inappropriate or it distorts the project some but there's nothing, I think for an audience
thing more satisfying than seeing one of their favorite movie stars in the role that you feel like they were born to play. Like that's, that's like a real dopamine head. Yes, I remember territorial sand about perfection. Tell he used to he love Janshah Voltages, Focus movie star really much actual than this move. Again. I, like Georgia, Rota and there's it's really hard for an actor Is that point where people feel that way about them by like, when you add Julia Roberts Rosa? I, like those two thousand right there and she was just she made some strange choices in the nineties, but then cunning went back to Mean Julia Roberts, my best friends. Well, in Nottingham Oil and its actually Roberts, and then you hid her red as it's like. Oh she can do this to an that's like the most unique perform Her career cause she's Julia Roberts, but she's also, you know it
you're absolutely right. That I was very aware that the timing of this was was perfect. It was exactly what she wanted to be doing. So she saw very clearly what the movie could do for her creatively. I had just come off. I've been approach about doing our brocklebridge. While we were doing out of sight because it was the same sort of producers, they described it, a member where I was standing on the set of the of the mansion at the end of the film our books, mansion me this idea between set ups- and I literally said that sounds like the worst idea, I've ever for film. Why would you think I would want to do that, Year and a half later, I'm in the middle of editing
help with the lie me, which not. It's not clear at the point that they re approached me that that we were going to be able to figure that out. You'll like it was. It was one of the most terrifying creative periods in my life. The months of editing the lot yeah. They came back to me that a new draft of the script- and I came back to me and suddenly a movie like that seemed to be the perfect thing that I should be It's going in one direction, Pierre Clegg, it's very simple- all I've gotta do is make sure I got the camera on the right spot to capture this performance and we're all gonna be fine, so that that day, nine month period. You know I just needed to move into another direction, but when I think back that that, while that could have easily not have happened, I was lucky traffic and no been.
Is as easy, no doubt was without a tough. We don't have the money till three weeks before shooting, because the consensus was no drug movies ever made. Money, which was true, and so every studio turned it down and it was grand king. Very Diller, USA Films, who came in three weeks before and said: ok will do it. It felt it was scar, Please don't make me forget about. I think they viewed as a drug tat was red color diploma porcine, extravagant etiquette sure yeah I mean it felt to us like us. Guys felt like it was an election year. Yet it felt like this. This issue was like building like people wanted to talk about it. The sad thing is, and we sense this were making the film you could make it.
Movie every five years, because nothing changing and fell in some ways. Things are worse so, at the time it fell, It has to happen now if we missed this window, it's going to close and we'll never get to make this in the funny thing was the traffic for me, traffic in the Aaron, we're not hard. Oceans was heart oceans, as our wives oceanside. It was a new grammar for me it required a new set of skills, and I was terrified and it was a lie- I spent more time on set trying to figure out how to do something. I ever had before I was really it was hard it in Britain.
The funny thing is you talk about. The look down with the actors of the actors were following. The Erika was perfect. It was just you know. I I felt it deserved: a real bravura kind of visual star and it was just. I hadn't really made anything quite like that before and it took me about it took me about a week before the math of it finally became apparent to me, and I realize Ike ok, the geometry of how all these shots should be designed and built and put together, is this you know so it was it was. It was just the biggest thing at ever then, a part of you knows backward eighty nine million dollars which to me was like two Lothar, three hours sex, I submitted by its.
The oceans felt for me are a kind of movie I really enjoyed doing, even though their tricky, because I get to play in a way that I don't really get to play on other kinds of films, yet they can handle a lot of trickery and sort of you know those areas close to comic book movies. I can get like that's it then I viewed them. Sort of comic book, films and away. He won't take a break to talk about our super. Full coverage here, the ringer, We have some awesome for barometers a lot of them are in Atlanta. All of them are hanging out about Who hangs out? Does anyone have with Kevin Kevin Clark, I mean he's, got an entourage now he's just a he's gone off the rails, but there are there they're doing at the ready pieces they are doing package. You can listen to the wonderful Ringer NFL share. You can listen to do
Ryan, Russillo, he's gonna have a suitable preview. You can listen install odds were amateur beyond their doing. The Superbowl props, with the general trifecta, you can read our great coverage and most important not most important, but almost as important as important just as important there. It is Kyle just as important we send our social team down there. We're doing a bunch of videos that you can watch on are to channel as we try to get you to turn over a hundred thousand subscribers inching our way closer cabin crew. Going to be doing slow Newsday from there were a bunch of little sure videos trying to catch just to see what it's like down there so check that out the ringer dot com, ringer package, that work live from the Superbowl, a week and then on this package will be up doing my big pick on Thursday at
we surprised others actors got Alonso a lot famous people that movie yeah. I mean we George one of the things that we I think bonded over was tee. No asshole rule so get to say, put together a basketball team, we want to make sure you don't have like the cancer yeah. So we'd people were vetted you have to stay and end and I'm glad because they were it was fun. It was fun to watch them together because they they really they really like each other yet lot they never left the sack they just they enjoyed hanging out, and I'm really, I think, looking back, it's a real testament to the late Great Jerry, Weintraub too, to be able to have retained that cast.
And made three movies in six years, that's hard with other choices that they have that's heart like I, Cheapside by general in Germany to do that. He now like its it and it's because they wanted to do it, but that's very kind of you now keeping everybody on the boil. Yet, a bar, the Basque, by analogy, it's like keeping the warriors together yet in preventing threat from using, thereby putting up her. I will ride. I worry about the rent heads cause. I think, there's a chance. He lives. I do interesting idea. I think I should really hard to keep a good team. Together.
Where it's this it's this world now, where you touch down a little bit of your movie, but it's this world that were everybody, wants their team and they want to be the guy on the team, and you think that really like that beats for them like winning the championship. Whatever the thing is, if you want a couple times, then that becomes less important right because at some point you're thinking, I think the media and the fans care about the legacy stuff a lot more than the players. Do they just look at it like well, if I'm the best guy in this team, then everything goes through me and I mean carry leffler brought in the rooms, the second best part of our time here. So I I think, there's a lot of dynamics employ you when you make the high fine bird Sequoia, think, there's some think. There's some stuff, you can in their about. I will be
are beyond restores the you know. It's the difficulty now in trying to make a realistic sports from because none of the leaks will cooperate with anything that is an avowed in time to them right so without without, but just ass, your energy than yeah yeah. It's really frustrating cause. Now you can make a realistic sportsmen about which really going on like most people. When I see sports movies, where the teams are fake, I'm like not really engaged but you just can't sits only kind of worth one time any given Sunday. Put a lot of time and effort into the at the names of the teams are the uniforms and it was like our Adam Canada, the young these victims we ve created, but yet of a you're using their Saint N Y instead in New York and stuff, like that, was that intentionally, oh yeah yeah So the idea is also interesting as we wanted to have some real sport casters in the movie and yes, because I wouldn't want anything to do with it. So we went to Fox and they were like great,
I thought that was an interesting idea. I was right here. I was ready firms. If there is a park ass with the age in his right now we ever to film the lack of them here, the sequel available so did you go to the idea and there's just agnor. Now there was no point I knew I knew we were. What kind of territory we weren't. And it wasn't really given what it was. It wasn't really necessary like it was. Yeah, it's really hard to notice, and they should look out here. I mean it's, it's. It really is asking movies. Just asking a lot of what. If questions and in when somebody asked me the day wore on what would you hope to take away from this movie would be for people watching it
said well, what I would hope is when they watch a basketball game now they really think about the the lives of those players lad. These are these are people and they there like that you're watching them on the court. They have another twenty two hours that they ve got a deal with. You know, and it's pretty intense like taught interviewing those three guys. It was clear light the level of scrutiny and pressure, under his chest extraordinary. So for those of you who do not there, he, u intersperse comments into towns, Reggie, Jackson and thought of him and that of a video in there just kind of pop everyone's HOLLAND You any view those guys for. I think each one was about twenty five minutes. Sir TAT half an hour get some good stuff. She probably like put some together. They were, they were incredibly generous. You know with their experience and end, it was fascinating to hear them talk
how how the game is now and how its change to even in a generation for young players- and they talked about shortly- what we were saying that there's, There is very little tolerance now for people who are kind of toxic or don't do the work like this idea this this this cliche of, like the savant player, who can just like walk onto the court and create magic like that, doesn't eggs well there's, also there's too many dynamics in place now for a year and ass all or if there is some sort of power struggle between the stars order. It just comes out now, and you know, Thirty, forty years ago, we started people covering the teams, but wasn't like it is now our people just be like sources, oh my god,
you think I would say that, like the Seventys and I got a zoo into in today's environment- Ivy billina- I don't know how they would function to systems find a design for these guys not to get along long term. Now you could argue basketball, though it's been that way, could you go back and it's like you know, Shaq and penny broke up Kobe and Shaq broke up. Michael Jordan and the bulls like they just decided in a want of anymore. One really hard heart when you think about it. It's I think part of that is driven by its physically physically intimate game. A small team, the outer bureau you're like right there, like dear Your pals or like sweating all over you you're, like touching people like it's, a very intimate game. What I like about it is that was in some of the other day. It's as fast as the sport can get without becoming truly violent, yeah. So that's why it's so funny to watch, but it's there there aren't the opportune. It is like there are in some of the other sports to like. Be over on this side of the field?
Put me out. Why do I have to talk to that guy? I grant you know, but here you're, just you're in the pit and so I would imagine that's it. More emotionally intense experience for those five people on the court. But it's such a It's a shrink, look the game, you feel about how the it seems to me like it's. There too many games given how many teams make the playoffs. I know, but you gotta have eighty two games. You can't have sixty percent of illegal. If my aunt Sangree, that's why nobody starts watching until March. You know basically cause you're like what were these first sixty one this for where the everybody's watching, but it there's no urgency with the standing threat, but I've been amazed base that that the banks in that changes decade, just fer, you know for doing are living in having websites like we're, Grantline, two thousand eleven and then the same.
Now the ringer it's a twelve month year, sport now and people care in July and August that was not the case before, whereas, like some other sports, its flipped, I can at the end of the year, in the four. As soon as the Championships oversight, the draft right about the draft reorganization, exactly where you go in then this guy and he may want to trade, and we just kick out of a constantly, and then a sport lay based bothered the two biggest free are stolen size, crazy and its heading? two February, and if this is basketball, we'd be having a heart attack. They just today, right before we start taken this it came out. Anthony Davis demanded a trade from New Orleans. Really his agent. Basically, they did to address. Is the top basque bar portrait right and carefully shed a Monday morning to start the new cycle is just what
basketball, is that if that's nineteen, it's like we're going to do this summer to do this, the right way we're going to start the day with that everybody will get their shows out of it and then try to fix he's going and that's what our we're next two weeks ago, would be able to demonstrate, as such has become part of what Basque loves. You you, you into this lack out. We had great land, we started in June, two thousand Levin, there's a lack I read after here and there a point where I was like FAC would. Do. There might not be basketball, and I remember: writing have so bad as read in these angry pieces about the lack of one of the pieces another area Jake has been came? We wrote a piece called a renegade basketball league about what would happen if the as you said, fuck it and what are the leg again. We created fake teams that we didn't expansion, draft and the There seem crazy, but
but now in your movie, two thousand eighteen with Facebook and where we have cameras, and just the way you dream accessible streaming. You really could do this year. You could and you can. Finance it entirely on all the broadcast rights and all the merchandising. That's of all the sports. It's the one. I've always wondered like why? Don't they try and take them over you because you don't need, as many players is for power now and others the reason you would in his good day, I'll make an incredible that yeah they and there would be their them. There might be a big change in the economic paradigm in and make no mistake The administration of a major sports league is an incredibly complex effort. And so the area like out start only like. Ok, let's sit down and talk about. What's actually that's what it's going to take to do. And who's gonna who's gonna be running that like who do you
install in this position of authority to make sure this thing is going the right way by you know it is. It is interesting to me. You know that, with the movies its into this idea of. To what extent do the owners in these situations have rights over? the players lives and what they do and they're not on the court that why, I think the point a very push the envelope on that and all kinds of ways in their basically like
They do whatever they want on such mania right and the NBA has no control over in the NBA guys with social media there, the biggest once out of album and you're on the branches he calves, a press conference after games. He doesn't need tucked reported outlet. Just keep the middlemen almost like our trump uses Twitter as a talk to any, but whereas now there's a benefit to talk to reporters but yeah, I'm really citizen Where are the stuff goes because did you follow the tiger versus fell thing, so the Basque, our aid? I walked yeah positive, so by that as Williamson who is one of the most exciting prospects ever hear and then there's this other prospect. On Murray State is a guard is basically like a taller Russell West. In his answer, MRS Junker. Those guys between the the couch in the draft could just have done
contagiosum be like it's nine? Ninety nine paper view it and people had paper there are big money ran away and they may even be able Jack Shit So it is obvious that is it that's? What I think is, I think, a well in a thousand reasons. I liked your move because you foreshadowing where this world is going, which has eventually a regular grant ago, do we need this, Wait owners anymore well and I think the the Real Europe that makes me think that this college athlete thing it's gotta be so that's what's gonna come visit is this is this is just right, give us that these kids that cyanide in class right now and he's gonna, be leaving in late she had sat in his generating tens of millions of dollars and revenue yeah school and he gets nothing like there has to be that this can be figured out. You cap with a system, some sort of
system or something where you there's some level of compensation here for these players who put in the hours I it's just it's hard to watch. Frankly, it's got into the point with me with college foresight. I don't enjoy it the way I used to yeah. It's hard to watch is, I think, these, as we know catastrophic injury. You're done right. It good luck with your degree yeah the ticket. I think the idea as the key to this with the G lick the g legally entreat by because there's a dead really spend any money on the players. Are you know it's for whatever reason they haven't kind of gone all in on it, but their shit, and when they do They could basically, these guys could come right out of high school and go to the jelly get drafted and you spend at least a year in the do they may be to end with the way everybody wants content now that it's actually pretty pretty a cut of science in the GDP. The show
the next g liked him. It make sense to because and talking to the three players that I interviewed, they agreed I was sort of talking from the outside and that it would appear to me that of all the major sports there's, the biggest gap between college play and pro play in basketball as compared to any of the others gets and Iraq absolutely they all said like. I do feel that I just patients to forget everything that I was taught when I read until I shut up an approach there like it's, it's just a different world. Will we talked about failure before its Are these guys were always the best or one of the best? And now you get the league in Like Mitchell, add. The movie played like what time twenty two. Twenty point when you re going to enjoy these games or something like that again for the first time guess felt a basketball since but he was like an yeah, so you know that's part of it to the south extra. Do that now as they have.
They just have a loaded roster that these young guys, that would be starting in any other team replant eighteen minutes and they're not play along and partners in their plane was cause. They know they can be playing forty minutes on a different himself. It's complicated. I want to talk about sports moves are going so a topic I been fascinated by forever of written shitload about sports movies and there's these different, generous ratsey have like the seventies is like the first way right. You get the longest yard than you have rocky and then, like everybody, ripping off rocky with every different sport. Basically, all the way through out said the mid. The MID eighties
there's a little more creativity. We get to the late eighties and yet like the field of dreams and those type of movies, but at the same time we're still making rocky over and over again with major league and those kind of things, then it kind of dies down. Then it comes back again in the late 90s because they become profitable cuz. You can put the one star in the poster and then that leads to this next great wave of movies that leave the room over the titans and all those cameras. Then that starts to go and sports movies can't make the same money. You know it s, just not a worthwhile bed for the studio around. Has the forums that very day because idiom, especially if its Papa so Bio, nine it scan really interesting. The movies gonna go to. Other level and they become movies that cannot use sports, which is what you you made it. You made a movie that happens to take place in sports. With now
What's in it, we all sports and well that what I was trying to do what we had in what I would have wanted to avoid in any sports movie was is the situation in which your your emotional engagement with the story hinges on the outcome of a specific came. Yet you know that's just a trope, that's in all sports movies. Was one that I was not interested in following yeah. What I like about one, Andrea Interim Mccrae- and I started talking about the movies I realise this is this- will be fun because it's it's never B, you never like rooting for somebody to hit one at the buzzer. It's not it's a sports movie without vat cliche in it yet and hopeful eminent anecdotally people whose seen the film who are don't follow sports
find it easy to engage with, because the issues in it are can be applied to almost any context, yeah and so in its fairly kind of I had in mind when we were making it sweet smell of success, which is one of my favorite films, very, like fast verbal, contain period of time that the story takes place over. That was what we wanted two to recreate yet sensing Jerry Maguire serves ninety six, a kind of flip, the script on what a sports movie was, but it still had the climactic game at the end, but that I thought that was such an important move because it created this Red Tidwell CARE. That was like. This is the core sports movie character we ve ever created. This is like ACT,
your guy, who could be in football, there's real thought through the new axis of him in the stuff you is going through and I think, over the next twenty plus years, that's been. The most interesting way that sports movies has evolved is putting a little more thought into the character right verses, just like our adheres to set up, and then he can rally back in the day but what's crazy to me is that they still make the boxing movies. How many boxing movies can we make? I don't know how I got approached by one President made what you d, rather than ever, made what were you gonna go with that? I don't know, I'm not I'm. I just somebody I sort of stop them before they get very far as well I have no idea where you can take this cuz there's been some pretty definitive move about boxing and going in a variety of directions like I just don't, I dont know what my angle on it would be how I would shoot it in a way that's better than some other people have done it.
No creed reinvigorated it. But much of that had to do it this alone hook to it and the fact that we are too through this guy. Now he was back in, but eighty, I think part of it. I think the actors getting crazy shape and then stuff and hitting stuff just seconds almost like a right of passage for great actors. Almost all, I've done. It strike you now, but it's weird that we had so many box movies like zero M M it is the only part of the warrior and that's about it. Part of the fund in a word, was working with genome oh yeah, and you know she was. It was so fun to watch her. Do all that stuff like she was. She was one of my favorite images that that, if I had to pull out it would be
right up near the top of the list. Is this a shot from a wire in we're in Barcelona she but she's running as fast as she can in the cameras three feet in front of her, I'm on the back of like an atv again with the camera. You know that on a hinge and such like. If this thing slows down or anything happens, if there's gonna be blood and she's, just she's enchieved, she can run like she can run the ashes. She looks like somebody that you wouldn't want to have chasing you, and shouted. The costume disastrous runs blackjack it than the lining inside is like this. Animal print see just see its lapping as she's running its very suddenly at the kind of look for it, but it's supercool yeah, you know- and I just I loved ones- run I loved watching our hit. People like it was. There was something, really satisfying about this very arresting, looking woman just like
hearing the shit out of your head. Just I died, I loved making it eat tat, so experimentation. Situ became superstition, and I was really appreciated that somebody was out there doing that. The thing you did too, years ago we need Logan Lucky any reason. Fuck it and that in any that, I'm not doing this old school. Model of advertising all that stuff. For just this can be a word of mouth thing and it didn't work, but it was an amazing experiment, and now that movie, I think I feel like a lot of people. The movie is heading in the right place from yeah I've seen it people like it, but it didn't work. In their work, is out of touch with the internet and the enforcers, and all that we have now that that actually should have worked, the studios were right about everything tat. We didn't have enough money. I I I I I was under the.
The illusion that with smaller amount of money is used in a very surgical way. You could achieve the same result, and we're talking about. We have to be clear what we're talking about Europe Wide Release movie like movement, opening a movie on three thousand screens? That's what this is, what trying to see if there was a lane to be opened up. You know that wasn't with a studio where a filmmaker like We could create a model where they can put a wide release. Movie out Less money, more trance, currency in terms of how the economics work yet absolute creative freedom over every aspect of the relieves, interesting, just work. It didn't work. Twice cause. I did it again on unseen. It didn't work again twenty million dollars and marketing. In each case it wasn't enough. They were right, you can't get out of bed for a lesson
so it's just appear awareness. I can't get aware you just can't and we tried very different approaches on each one like ok, this time we're, gonna put the money here this week like we, it just didn't work. What was that be made when you release stated same time, Orange I too am bubble and the girl from experience. The air bubble was earlier than two thousand five yeah and everybody got matter that fiercely as well. This is the everything was yeah was popular idea for that we're speedometer aimed inevitable. Look what I think I will talk about this yesterday to somebody this whole windows thing that I think the problem. The problem that we are seeing now is people are trying to apply a unified field. Theory of how this window in issue should work.
In point of fact, every movies differ yeah. Here's what here's! The argument I would make to NATO who John Setina runs. Nato I've become very friendly with the minutes Logan Lucky and unsafe. The minute I knew that Logan, lucky and unsafe were knocked and a work. I should be able to get that thing up on a platform immediately. You know to mean like not not that weep and do it it's just. I knew by Friday noon. Till you get where he was not ass yet, and I just spent twenty million dollars dude. Let me drop this thing next week, nobody's going like not hurting you you're. I'm hurt now we're all her right. Now got to wait. Sixty is ninety days whatever and then it's a memory and so that I think their needs. Some understanding that you you're, never gonna have one approach. That's gonna work for everything. It's not, so I think they should
and having conversations about. We got this movie of this scale with these people in it this pedigree. We want to go out this. Why Why don't we? Let's say the window on this- is acts and we as other movie, that's a little more experimental that we're not sure about, and if that, let's have, understanding of its tanks that we can get this thing up quickly. That's that's what I would yet still of sick, but this myself stars born which are really liked, but he did a good job, did a good job. It was good movie, theater movie and I think that's a challenge these days and it's a challenge and sports to ironically cause the tvs are so nice now so comfortable home, and it's like Do I want to go to eighty one red Sox Games year? I just wanna watch the Red Sox and I could be on my phone and on that deal with assholes next to me, and I let us
a coverages amazing land. This is what America does better than anybody in the world is sports coverage. The wild green is as change the game for all these different sports, including Basque, about just much more fun. If you watch it is being classic her, the harbor classics and Obey TV, and you actually do fine. Where hit the square and its blurry, you didn't see anything and use so much more to you through the game, as there are still value gonna the games, because I think you can pick a lot of the body language stuff. Guys interact just how breathtaking The wireless, but I gotta sick- you just have to see him in person, but it's that the necessity like it used to be an error message there. They tat yeah, there's a similar thing happening in movies. In that, when I was when I was growing up, there was a big difference between You saw on your tv and what you saw in a movie theater huge there's, just not that big gap anymore, like these, like you're saying this now for K world. You know eighty five and screens like this stuff,
stomach and when you combine now we're, if I don't know you've all had this experience of going to theaters for people like don't know how to behave any more. You know They just do, of course they think they're in their living room matter of ear like while thereafter about air. The phone is like coming as I do. I hawking and area there literally like it's their living room, so you know it's. I agree that there are. There are certain kinds of films that really benefit the that theatre going experience get out would be a perfect, for example, I get a great cry. Scared like there's, there's good theatre movies, yeah, there's other ones that. Funny go. The movie theater beat, I says, need to save the theater and I think how people find that balance with
trying to get the stuff find the man, because we have its word. We ve seen at work with different things where there's movies, I want to say, like oh shit, it's on Directv already great, the theatre now pay and ninety nine. I don't know if that's good for the filmmaker bad, I think it depends aging I think everybody on both sides, the people making stuff people paying for the stuff. It's made, are in the process of of redefining what success means, because the old definitions just don't apply anymore. The business is completely changed, and so I think it is important for filmmakers to to to be clear about what they really want. You know, I think, if you asked most filmmakers,
what they want more than anything is eyeballs like they just want, is many eyeballs on what they made as possible, and so, if someone like me, I'm pretty agnostic about where, where it shows up yeah, I just want you to see it. We're gonna, be interesting, I think, over the next three to five years, as these companies begin to consolidate and really put down roots in this new looked woken up, a bunch, more streaming platforms and twelve months gas. These all these big companies have decided Ok, that's where we're really focused on that. We think the futures kind of heading in this direction. It's gonna be interesting to see five years if somebody looks at the piano statement, and just goes I'm done like I don't I don't get it. Does this model. I don't see how we make a lot of money in this model I'll
I actually really like where we are right now, because I think the next five years it gonna to be fascinating, even like what you seen with some must have Netflix is done this year. They're, making teen comedies my daughter, like her three favorite, but my daughter is thirteen. Her three favorite movies this year on Netflix with dad stop making those they weren't making movies for people like her. I love her movies. There's, like a million horror movies, a visitor out now, because they're stupid algorithms are pointing to like get my car movies. Well it's a tricky thing because, as tough as the theatrical business is in the end, the economics of it are not very rational There is also, at the same time there is no equivalent in terms of success in dollars of a movie that blows up. Yeah, there's no way you can have a hit tv show and it will throw off a lot of money over the years and stuff like that. But if you, if you hit the jackpot on a movie,
It makes like a billion and have darling right. It's there's just other equivalent of vat in the industry. So that's why people chasing it like mother, it's like the fast a furious Myra whereat, the deck along its gonna, be it cut log, though they may tell them, they make point, break point break with cars and its good and they make to seek was that are ok, not great, they do well and then it becomes James Bond. Yeah and others can make them forever. Until then, diesel, like he's gonna, be in a wheelchair getting into his test or us. So whoever is gonna go go! Go. I asked Sorkin this. I have to get your answer. Just consumers might use by New Fair requested for people like you. What movie last fifteen years we the most jealous of justice, yeah Jack, as you can
The guy was there's just a movie at their like. I thought that's a good one. I wish him well. There is a move in the came at a couple years ago, called under the skin Johnson Glaser move it with Scarlet Johannsen. That's a masterpiece like this guy's mates remotely she made sexy beast. That was his first mobutu's. Perfect shell, yet his second telescope birth with Nicole Kidman, which is a fascinating movie like as close to a covert movie. That's u can get without Cooper being around the very interesting felt and then under the skin is, to my mind, a kind of jawdropping The reason I think about it, a lot is that again what we, if this was a movie they came out when I was growing up everybody I ve been talking about it. Everybody would have seen it, it would have been, it would have taken up a lot of
Cultural, real estate, yeah- and this thing just it was nobody saw- nobody talked about- I mean the people its eyes likewise is really good, but that their work and I remember seeing it with my wife jewels, as nerve yeah, who said not to say hello, What are the veto? She's like holy shit like that was up. That's a piece of cinema, reminds you of like what you can do with the language. You know I mean it's just so just stunning piece of work- and it was just like it hidden in this country at least it might as well have just now shown up. So I see something like that and in that was a movie rights where I was like
He's really good. I'm gonna steal that, like there's stuff in it that that I wish I'd thought. Oh, yes, but that's a good one! It is good luck. It's it's like an answer to his unexpected, so you did. Traffic in two thousand. Eighteen is at a ten soda fixtures area. That is no way you make, that a reality I believe a huge budget did a series of it for a few years, not long after the movie just say it now. But well, it's narco something! That's what methods is absolutely look. I think I certainly went through a period. Probably around the time I was doing the Nick were, if somebody broached at an idea for a project to me, my first thought would have been. Why is this not a tv series, yeah because I do, but I say that, knowing in understanding that there are certain ideas that are movie ideas, Logan
Turkey is a movie idea that I sat here. I'm bird was said at the outset. It dies out at any rate there certain ideas that really say. In that format the cow Mclaughlin the owner character by Tibet it set up. Sensors though there is Nba ownership was deem room with the cultures angrily. I got one of the when I underrated scenes was just like him on the him and his giant private jet with his remit Newspaper that the stewardess is bringing the fruit and it's like he's got, aliens there like a whole other world and they oh each other, and it's like this little secret handshake club and I'm ready to go into that world, because little bad. I think you know when you had the he had opened the way for the Ark. Is this classic Beckett. They theirs Retain owners era like see make you follow me urine. They probably the who s here where's your next month. I funny you should ask for them
this time it in. I don't know how long I don't have the next thing like I have things, but I have not pull the trigger. Anything yet. So this is weird usually when I'm in post production and we were postponed, not a movie? Now you need an excellent well, I have stuff, I just haven't. I'm not sure what three of them are movies, and I'm wondering so, but where Where should I make these? How should they be put out to meet, not movies like high flying bird. You know that our kind of smallish there there in theory movies that come out and go into wide release, and I'm, I guess I'm trying to figure out. Where is the forever home these project? I don't know,
I think this is a fine time to try to figure out what is the perfect situation for each idea, because in the old days it's like movies TV shown, that's it and now it's like there's nineteen different generations of everything you did with their set. That was just really interest I don't know, what's going to happen to it Folks has a way of taking when the conversation for three days. If it's the right thing like, we just saw the fire festival back right, the thing on the conversation fairly five days. I was one talk about it. Harry movie that Twenty minutes in I just like got the sweat, because its literally like I have nightmares like that yeah I, like things like that, are going that way right. That was, it was really intends to watch like it was. I was really anxious euros watching it have you have you made? They got all in a document that I made one a few years ago about sprawling grey. Oh yeah. What
think of that whole process. Computer movie. Will it was that was kind of? a unique situation, because what I decided while developing it was that we would essentially build a new monologue out of existing footage that had been recorded of Spalding yeah over decades that that, I guess one day I was sitting around thinking. Why would, interview, people talking about the best talker ever like. Let's, create created new monologue out of all of the work that he has done on interviews he's given and that's what we ended, do we have ninety hours of stuff and we got it down, Ninety minutes and answer
came like a new monologue and psycho. It was, but it was incredibly, it was also very it was upsetting like he was a friend. It was a terrible tragedy and it was hard it was hard to like beep swimming in that for so long because I missed him everybody who knew him did, but I'm glad we did. It is, I think, a nice testament to his. He had a gets like that, I think people he made it look, you go see Spalding, and you would think I could do that like look, how easy that it not understanding how hard it is and you see other people try and do it and fail, and you realize his apart from his performance skills, his story telling skills his writing skills. His ability, if you understood anything about his process, is ability to synthesize. His experiences into a coherent narrative was exceptional. What are you
reckon up soda billions for compliment in the vain fee of spare time through the earth they I'll Jim. It's all or nothing like. I have to do all of it. You do the whole sees it. It's like could you do that? Could you just step in a somebody else's project like I really think I sent the you'd be you'd have fun doing absolutely my other. I almost I won't name what project this was yeah I've always had a fantasy of getting a call from somebody eight days out from shooting a movie like. Can you come in like take over like we we ve, had a colleague rosebud health issues, something like where this thing was ready to go and where would you like, a tap and unlike let's go yeah? still. I would do that and a heartbeat in it almost happened to me with your on a big movie, be cancer with when I can and it ended up they- they ultimately decided to just table the thing they pushed it a year and went and got like another director. But there was a
a two week period where I was in a conversation where it looked like, I may let fly to another country and I walk onto the sound like had, and I was like that would be off. My second MBA coach, taking like of coach, gets fired eight days for the playoffs off take over like the warriors yards. I mean my attitude would be the fact that I am here and were gathering footage like that's a win so that I would like no pressure to to do anything. But what I can do in that moment, but I think you have thirty one fast year over the next twelve years. Just bang, I want carted off completely hard drive. Shooting cars. Tat is the worst beyond those like big it's just area, is just figuring out whenever I see movies that have that such an interest, it just makes my head heard. I just can't I can't imagine it takes so long, it's hard. It takes a long time. It's dangerous. I dont the few times have done stance that
that makes me I'm not of a mind that anybody should get hurt, making a movie so that the I'd I'd be the worst, be the First, the you'd have a lot of scenes of people talking about how awesome that thing they just but you didn't see where it was. You know it's not the guy. Not this is really fun I enjoyed the movie. What is its Netflix February? Eighth, so, watch, the angular, not least our game, comes the next week. You think you'll get the big tat picture. Netflix you talk to them, but that family from Yeah, how many minutes, I think, we're like forty eight hours, yeah, look they! I can't wait to see how place they ve been great. They ve been very positive on the film the trailer they made, a thousand terrific and love a little poster, that they data that was really cool like they ve been super easy to deal with. You are so complex. Is in there that I just like, and it was like nice to just see them. Movie, including the
from the wire soldier who I just she should be more stuff. Yes, seismic How was I knew nothing about the castle extend knowingly, let I'd send build. You can email ago, every nineteen year, another wanna do somethin yeah go his greatest resource cook. Good luck with it eggs for doing this lane jail presented. I think so to Stephen soda. You can check out, I find burden. Fiber Athos, Netflix, thanks to rich paw for waiting until Monday morning. To do this, Anthony Davis trade request. We love, we love when this stuff happens. The weak and we have everybody in the office of working really nice e rich by thank you where's case there, been Saturday like four p m yeah and then I thought you were back with more package. The sweet off get about three watch was tomato proof of life arrests, are pro conversation
Caruso. It's it's one of my favorite once a week. That's the check that one out until then, ways.
Transcript generated on 2020-06-05.