« The Bill Simmons Podcast

'Billions,' 'Rounders,' and Andre the Giant With Brian Koppelman (Ep. 343)


HBO and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by ‘Billions’ co-creator Brian Koppelman to discuss the rewatchability of ‘Rounders’ (05:30), which ‘Billions’ character gets mentioned the most in real life (13:45), the show resonating with rappers and NBA players (1:04:00), and finding a way to make it entertaining without being campy (1:11:15). Then they discuss HBO’s upcoming documentary ‘Andre the Giant’ (1:24:50).

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Today's is also the bill. Simmons back ass on the Ringer podcast that were brought to you by recruiter, you didn't use zip recruited referred the billions writing murmuring right, That's probably mistake what I've done adds form and let me say there really helped by did me took Zena hardest, ire people. If I really hard to hire people its think after their powerful engine Eighty per cent of employers opposed to job on Cypriot, get equality, can it within a day they are the best at distributing scribbling your job to the best boards and then find the right people inviting them to apply my listeners contrived for free at separated outcome such bs. Have we ever done a pack ass, the person, it's like, we haven't, I think it's always, but on the phone once at the studio in New York, maybe maybe I went there and then we got you on that yeah. Don't think I've never seen the look on your face. When I say the following: seek is the best app for buying and selling tickets to sporting events concerts and more for twenty two hours after first seeking purchase
any gamer Sporting Bedford, NBA Nato base by whatever she sees promo code, bs right. I he had Nicht tickets twenty two hours off in their problem. Right now I remember, I think, maybe getting next came down the psychic, abrogated, because he came down on that camp couple podcast, the plug binge Bode Mally Reuben Jake steps here. They are doing a two part billion can visit. Now. This is one not for real. This is a pike S not miss. They did season one it's up today That's up to date and felicity extremes into goes up were taken this on a Thursday. So by the time you hear this, both seasons will be up. They went super deed of super duper, duper deep Duff, so that's happening. Then the recap Abbas what an otter I'll! Even on this, Mean Mallory Sunday night billions on Showtime right after its eye. We put the pie, little twenty minute break down and she knows probably a ten times as much.
His I do about billions. I just watch and enjoy it. She knows. I can't we just said he. What he insisted understand, attorneys assistance, name like she's at oh they level, I'm I'm worried. I'm we're not gonna get overpowered. You gotta hanging, but also you have a special resource that she doesn't have Ryan. You can literally Yasmine largest text you and ask you what the hell's gonna so yeah subscribed to the recapture balls that Sunday and if you're not listened to that already, we ve been breaking down Atlanta, which is my favorite, show not named billions on tv. I love Atlanta, and I want I re watch the third episode with my son last night, even though there is stripped cub scenes and why I just didn't care I just want to have a sense of humour. He was laughing at all the re parts. How is he he's? Ten? I did this. Is yours, and you know Sammy was why he was tat. You have two hundred and then finally, one shining podcast our college, Basque, Bob As on Monday output, Chino is going to be. I am not doing a sports pike s cause
running that when instead, so, if you want your college basketball fixed from ringer people were better placed than shame pack ass, their new package, so that gun IDEA and then Sunday night, now, whatever happens and marched man, s who woody report assert use, do battle. Sitting on Darth Vader in Start fighter for two I would for do. You refer Duke because I met Kay when I went out vanity you just ass. It had better ass, your insurance fantasy camp. No- and I had this what he did I said: can you sign a book to my son? My son was six or seven he and he wrote down to SAM, always, your hardest amigos wait. How old is he and I said, seven and he changed the try your best and he goes. I just wanted to try best of tries hard as you. So I was like that's it. I love coach K forever. Anyone you mean you, like
a guy made Donald Trump Junior this one time, then he told me love Billy inside our now, maybe not about Donald Trump hand once and it makes me want to cut my hand of everyday hi hi. Half your visitors were just alienated. They're fine covenant, rag carpet with co creator, billions long time for both of the part of the grandly ringing universe and of mine, and we're going to have him but first programme, so we ve never done this in person. I think then, this a few times we even though this last year- and I didn't go back and listen to it over things where its eyes were added the caramels I made that point where I just
are the same story told two years ago and that's fine neutral, but they accepted the old thing. Just hit me please driving here I know that when we met on fifty one, almost fifty two yeah, I was thirty three thirty four women. Yet we met you met in two thousand, do not around gas we wanted. I went to the screening, in wide any in March two and one still living in Boston. I wasn't even engaged my wife yet, but she came in every way and then we went and got food after somewhere. You're somewhere. You know, I don't know like a spot. You guys knew that was nearer. We saw the thing and we have already kind of been passed over the internet, nobody's Yale buddies, informed bodies could back then the reform we would talk on the phone we sing, o one cause. I think you I didn't talk to you and tied did that rounders quotes peace. There was that we met the day. I called you the day after the which is still pending,
one of the best movies I've ever use for that and be able to do this sign that our lab raised a hand out MBA words with courts for movies and our pick a movie renders had some great ones for it really like top of the line Greer. There was a great count on people and make fun of the players and images perform. Well, you know- and I say to you that I have been reading you and then one sought out. I just couldn't believe dead. You your favorite things. It was Youtube everything's, combined together the NBA and Poker and rounders, and not at that time you know you you're, like we haven't, talked about this in your pods, You are definitely one of the reasons that rounders had the life that it had you nobody. It was a bomb in the theatres dna shelf life. The second shelf life thing and it became this movie that everybody washed over and over again on dvd. You know when there's a couple actors. Are one cable that the hay day of just react to show what they said you would want. You will tell me about them
play at all. Well, yes, but the poker boom it all it all came together. I them the movie gay people, the language and then the whole card can show them something about how Game was played like each little thing built upon itself, but I do you made it cool to talk about movies that, in the way that you talked about a monotonous, the thing was whatever I mean on people. Sitting where we archipelagos reminiscing, but we guys think, but Look back a little bit at sort of one. Both of us Ryan. So I was thirty four that seventy right. That's fifty one minor seventeen, thirty four zero. Like thirty, Or something like TAT, because I was probably thirty year and so like we were at the beginning, yeah, I'm trying to find our voices as professionals doing this thing right and will. You are also like at that point where you had to figure out,
rounders you new people, love that, even if it didn't do on the theatres. It's like what's tax advocate this going to keep momentum. How am I not writing copy for an at age sand? Six years based yeah, I know at the second movie made that it meant when are we just one movie made? It was like a dot on a graph, and it meant nothing by new once we have the second down on the grass There's a line and like yes, we would have difficult I started using the royal we my life, my best friend, is my partner. Yeah in all this is named David Levine. We do all this stuff together, yet I knew did, then I felt like ok, we'll have ups and downs it'll be one of these career. Is where we met. I have a big head or anything, but we will will be in the game and then you know again. I was thinking I don't know. I guess you start to get. I guess I've I've had slept days. You start again logic, it's fun for me that, like you were there Knocker guys, and then you came a hung out for Dan Oceans, thirteen yellow eyes
right. There are fake cacena. You came and spend a day with us and had lunch with us in oceans. Lounge met all those guys, yeah we're doin. I remember seeing Patino yeah and then he's sitting They're in that couch was pretty freaky it must be amazing interview. I had a sad and perplexity. Watch the other movies now watch paternal, which we talked about food actually surprisingly good with very Levinson which made patina comfortable positions in the settings been a comfortable and I was kind of I don't know how is gonna go and he not positive. What was going on with package like how had haven work, what radio station have what, whereas discovered, live, but about twenty five minutes in he once we started talking about acting in Sofie get super comfortable, and then it was like a went to that realm. So a nineteen seventy two in as like. Oh my god, it was areas, is the best it'll Brando stories. We'll jock gazelle all that stuff, you can't imagine,
People should watch that dock. I'm sure you told people to watch that junk is our documentary on the fire the right to say that in the thing yet at some believe and its cause, it shows the five movies you may he'd robbery. Morey of I have. I have just the five perfect movies and he's in them. Anyone in the nest actors of all time like that, to push it over the term. Emmy conceived the idea. Nobody did make those five movies and it's like a truly incredible a true either one run is the five movies, but then his I can sum short and it ruins this. I am db thing: it's This year's take them out of our hands cool sure that they will send these five in a row that just the five but yeah David. I got to work with that guy, I'm enormously godfathers. What like the first movie that matter to Us I move a lot more than any other for sure, yeah, it's godfather two. Second, probably in the movies I've watched more than any other, though I think it's the better of the two agree and
We when he showed up on the set our oceans, thirteen and up a movie did David. I wrote and I'm we once had every day tat. It took a cup I mean you know you get these, God put it just took a minute's like keep our feet under yet has its a huge shut. The face that, oh, my god, that's all Patino. Can I stay in the game. Can I talk to him when he's like? I have a question about this speech you just wanted to whatever you think MR porcine hype, but then what you honey sounds exactly like opportunity, causes output GINO. So every word that comes area. Can I get a growth she is admittedly opportunity say, is really opportunity it was. And he was so game. You know some older actors are founded in. She loves acting that I'm sure talk about this That was why I feel like I could go on for hours of them now that he's comfortable wings, you really loves, actually went on you a Broadway hours when you rhythm working right, so you had to spend the time talk them. Literally gonna spend time on a set working on the care
when men we doing takes me can walk over to David me like those that are you guys heard it like and who was amazing, but then he would sometimes say to Stephen the directive that movie he would go up. Can I do another just for fun and you want to get another take just to try some experiment. Just a weird idea occurred and Stephen, but always say going any lack, of course, do another profundity due to more fun, and you just saw a guy the rest. A life is kind of complicated for him, the kids them ex matter. He's young kids, you may say about our young kids, but when you between caught inaction is one is not actually causes, one is not complicated for him here. That's when he's fully alive and connected and watching it was like super inspiring to us watching him one like watching the work watching him craft the character, but more than that, it was a look at this artists like you're completely engaged in the thing, is
bring it seventy years old, yeah, amazing to watch and HIV Prevention, but I actually think he might easy nominated for it. I accept it. Thank you. My web sites tat sort of thing Murphy on building. I ask him what the Maumee positive! I am now just now on the soldier you're on bills. Its podcast right now, sad about Heil she's got there, Do you mind if I was? You were gonna gotta, mailbag, gray, haired bridge I asked a bill. Is Brittany? Steers was the MIKE Tyson of pop because she guy shows the power at seventeen in an aching and that I prepared Kevin Shudder line to Mister Douglas in the region remember that it is out of place no fee on billions, stand up and made the mail bag and made the mail bag is how old were you when you made the mail bag
What we want- and it was the biggest credit, my life, where your envy, you help him inside your item b b as yourself. Well, it was actually just a friend of my website for so long that I had oligarchy that help people in Europe listen soldier I'm trying to get to get you on the best I can now you ve had to words on the pod gas, Andrei dark, I'm fuckin hurdle can I mean duty? He heard you write in units our phones work, yeah here to talk to you later by then. So you just had a mailbag email and output. Ass, came here killing your daddy is the biggest rustling fan you ve ever met. So what what character. Billions kids, I mentioned to you the most. There must be aiming louder than now. X and chalk. Are Are they the one thing I mention must yeah guess
there's, really underground, wags kind of momentum. Now Oh you away, I know, he's the favour character of the Ringer staff, genocide, close stiff constable, his genius of birch, true genius, the actor and David. I want to come together and Loreen, and I kind of like crafted this care like made the character form there and we change the character of a lot from the pilot second episode books. The pilot, the second episode we realized. I work in a really give constable like this ground to cover and the best he doesn't You don't work in your writing. A show when you're writing a show you just it when people deliver for you, yeah just throw them stuff, and we ass where everybody delivers. If- deliver. You don't stay on a show. That's like the old David Chase thing and it turns out. It is true that sets a basketball
You run place for the guy and they make a three hours for another. You do your own place for these people. All the time Everyone mentions Taylor now Anne and, as you know, like the secret. And I had in the first season of the show levine- and I was that Wendy was gonna win the first season of the show yet and the Wendy was in a way like the hero of the first season, so when we talk about Wendy and I'll say men come up to me, men over forty and one. Very famous NBA player. All basic lets me in your life Can you I'm introduce me to that woman who plays? I really am like she's like a man, person like an actor and she playing the role and married and delight dude. Every due to over forty comes out to me. I'm in love with that Wendy Person and you understand it because Maggie sifts eyes or so smart, she just so smart, such a brilliant actor, and then I will mention
Taylor, because they have seen a character on television before and educate them on a soap, incredibly powerful and smart. Personally. I am not as the iconic Bobby S ride, because again that exact guy, Jamie Louis. In that role wrapper miss aspirational idea in the twisted way. He does meaning people find him aspiration. Barbaric I was never in our minds. Neither Bobby nor chalk are heroic characters to us, oh, we love them both in the same way like what Austria in Michael Douglas, where Isabella but you're ready for the hump movie. They it's funny how that are there. It's over, aiming as what's in there Johnny, very sad. She ate episode one and by that by the last episode you they're, closing and could not in a near like rooting for granted
It is, however, well my cops are covered. My favorite shows the crown and, like You know the queen is a villain boy, but you rude like hell for what I mean because of the idea of duty and she's hewing. I think that is it when someone can define what they want and you can understand the reason they want it. You will route for them. If you spend enough- with them, because you will empathize with what they're going through them has this idea about duty, the sort of useless obligation, but that that, if she somehow gives enough to this ideal, it gives something back to the people I mean I think monarchies are useless and terrible devices, but in ban institutions, but you watch the crown and you, in clear voice so great, and you can't help but route for her, even as she's making the lives of the people around them miserable to watch it
Now I too, my wife watches it. I really like English paper, Fair, the crown of being that the crown- I just blanked I'd said no guy moment. I want to know how environmentally my like nosegay hundred Daughtry. You know we have evidence edit, the air or what shall lean into it. I remember ass good ass. You What show you the most jealous of presenting a competitive watch area like I'll fuck, now yeah, I'm here right minor. Another fact well known to the crown the crown is perfect. I think it's a perfect piece of entertainment. I watch it. I can't believe they get to make the episodes that looked it so hard to do these shows yeah to gather the resources and every shot in that thing is like incredibly composed it so different from what we are doing. When one hour showed a look like that show, but I watch it and our,
stop it! Some, though, aiming I what's our ushers. We watched together nicer, I guess to my wife than you are too young to civilisation it, and so I, like generally speaking time, we like Spain timing. I, like my shabbier thy founded on. Why is it that we do not bring an ethical environmental sense of the crowd I did on the moon, done with these agencies in, but I We wind it sometimes and I'll, be like look how they shot at dinner. Seen they were able. There must be spent on a scene. I get to spend half a day. They got to spend two days re issued bay of twenty today episodes I have eleven day. Episodes are twelve. They episodes so they're didn't ten more days to shoot their episodes than I am, and so there are able to cover things in ways that I just can't and so there's a level of cinema to it. That makes me like com Why would we want to be able to that she's had apparently about came at roads because game it thrones need those two they like veer either
in these giant battlefields ain't, even compare, and even then then dear, but they're staging stuff where they need those resources. The crown you can The crown anyway, you there's an known stabbing. Anybody on the crown. It's you see phantom thread no, not yet, because we in the show. I am one of those like meticulous movies, where. It's not a whole their level? I really like they. I know I don't normally go over the moon for movies like that, but that one ass, a man Every single decision is so careful in having to watch, but because he is among my ten favorite filmmakers. That's when you ask about being jealous repetitive, is something the fact that you did your pie castle spend two hours asking questions. Can you do it? Tat was one of my favorite ones from last year and he walked and he saw the fast break posters immediately, tonight. He knew we lose a hey cap on a whole right here. Heterogeneous gave cap over again, but he's, I guess,
like a child from the same generation and grow box. In the same things like I followed this terrific retro news. I think it's caused by that and now just pop up these old tv guides and obey leg. Charlie's angels came out. Forty two years later gave now have the pilot. I, like really important moment to ensure the procedures Remember where I was, I believe, some day, I'll watch, Charlie's angels. I was six or seven episode to this season. We there might be Carlos Angels for Micro, Firefox it reference episode to billions well, I might even have died remit. If a little nod to that that exact in time it's possible and episode to. I think I told this story before but the Hawaii episode was the first time ever got it. Like a boner, I'd sure, like a really driven by content, boner housing all what's going as X, seven eight! What set with sheer lad ashore
the aims of rivers, bacteria content, boner, I think, should be the name here. None of these cover band. What can you do that you haven't covers Jimmy or open on that started early two, thousands that should be the cover. The government's deftly one of the world's poor and searches. You could ever dared content falconers. Let's take a break to talk about. Hit Showtime series? Billions? Are you really? nobody there we're doing a red do it. This is where the in changing it. I said the copy I just kept the copy. You can enjoy knock out. There's a fierce right, worry between hedge Fund C, O Bobby acts or add an: U S attorney check roads, it's more cut throat than ever fortunes families, legacies be damned. They will cross every line to take each other down and as the stakes ries, who
They trust how far when they go to save themselves, don't miss season three of billions. The show anything weekly calls quote devilish fun, unquote with new. Episode Sunday at ten, nine central, only an Showtime. I would go so far with this. Well, what's really weird, as I know, the answer to every one of those criteria are met. Far, will they go? I know Might I don't mind the stairs can get an extended thirty day free trial Showtime to catch up on the first two seasons. Billions by entering code bs at at get Showtime Dotcom offer expires April, fifteenth get Showtime, dot come what's cool about Showtime and HBO and other prestige it was now, as there are also available like Amazon and Hulu, and I know a lot of my staffers like you know, though they were white shirt because it's on Amazon.
Player is a point there. Whenever it is an there shoot him anytime, you the accord cutter unwatched by just subscribing like I said earlier, I have a lot of people that word for us under thirty that do not have cable satellite. I get, I would say my somebody Embers, Finland is sixty percent, my kids, my eighteen or twenty two year old, they watch all in fact my daughter pay Hannah. My daughter will say to me tat. I would watch Showtime, I would watch billions. I really when a catch up because she's a couple episodes from last he's in China Watch, but I'd have to and she was away for us, Mr Programme in the car- like honest, your dad- happens. When I got has twelve, I sent an hour, you you're not going to catch up, and she said if, if it was the computer. Then I would but I have to turn the television, and I said your dad makes television shows I grant you do know that right here, she'd year, but if that was on, if I could just watch it on the computer, so then I doubt of course being assessed
and a father than like we'll use the flash drive, and I downloaded all including some that and then I might give you wash and she's like I'll, get to it. I'll get it Irish is used, is our greatest I'll, thing in the world. My daughter She really knows how to make me work for it. What does seem and I'm feeling now is my daughter- turns thirteen and like five weeks, but I am Diana feel it. Now it's basically like. Oh, what have you done for me? Lately situation, I was their hero up until now. Do you still our man, I'm really I hate at Hake. I have some money. Coming to my thing tonight, hey you driving me into practice. Well sure, that's then they talk of your day. It's like the. How was your day token we talk about it too. So I think I mean with we have take the pike yesterday. Being dazzling apparent corner it's about, but I walk like a big varied, I can no longer to school schools Post Box with Manhattan, and
somewhere along the way she will turn and from one shoes eleven we joke about it and shall say so what doing today idea, I don't care ass pro forma data, but I appreciate what, though I fucking appreciate the effort I really do, but how much work to be prudent say how was your day It's good anyway, billions, kids, yeah D, them as proxies for anything going out with your parenting the show your everything your subconscious always has been it's funny. People will constantly When I visited where you see chucks kids, you literally see Chuck by catch with the kid, and someone will be like what At the end, the recap that show that we like haven't, we never see the roads is kids. I wondered if he had a catch in this episode year with some like you. Can we weren't there now it. Wasn't me about what people want from tv kids It usually always is terrible goes wrong. It's like the less the better J J Soprano is probably the never an example this but meadow. I always I didn't matter with solid metal
story might need to be a really good actor at thing to pull out from other storage areas and similar was the real deal. Yes, she was on that shit. Like you know, they'd episode, when she did, the guy College and bring them home in time red kid show that, where they actually now, the actors was party. Five. What really meant ashore than to sound your family, but we're leaving outside your family with the other, could act the ruling out the most important one of the last, whatever? Obviously it's Don drapers daughter, that's the most important that this she's incredibly good actor guy now that diseases. You know that the that the brothers were the worst yet and but I do think that she and the relationship that he had there was great if you're gonna, but I bet the problem is he's really careful? Will you there that aside, I'm gonna make part of the show really about the guy's, a father and an Show
We are interested in in this kind of total obsession that these people have for their work we are interested in how that ratifies toward their family lives, but we don't they. To see a lot of interaction. We will see stuff with that's right, kids this year, because, as last season ended, you know acts and Lara or in a red there inside spot, and so that has to play out yet this and it does play out the season, and so that does have to effect the kids in some way, but we can change the nature of the shore and interesting changed the nature. The shows about these grown up people and their obsession. Is it to say that season to the show figured out what it was, because I was very season to is the crucial for the whatever shows gonna? Be U thing at the seas?
I don't on totally now at the show as yet and then season two it in there. You figured it out. I know the moments like the inflection points, episode season, one when we started ended it with that Andrew Birdsong, about sociopaths we, you're, not okay. This is the town or we're gonna use music in the show and then by the end of the second of the first season. We figured out the rhythm of the thing and then yeah when we then started season. Two we were like, we understood, the shell were making and how to do it for sure, but it goes in stages. The first three episodes are the weakest and they were of the first season because their us all, together, figuring out the voice, the town, which is the thing that you're really talking about which is like the shows that work heavy within their world. They dislike unified voice, unified tone, deaf, something that the shows we live.
Love their whole lives had Nypd Blue yeah had a voice, way. Those characters it's a year her or something like that Cypriots and John, how he did it? I found him Miss Jane Kelly me. To do so mad when he laughed with. Where would we go? We have twenty five apps, twenty three episodes. That's the maddest. I've ever been an actor for blowing whatever me to still mad at him. I grow, but if I madame I would love- and I remember I was I was hanging out. I was living in Boston at that. The first year now government should my dad and my dad was like he just become superintendent. End users, like it was so overwhelming, while firm and he loved Nypd, because he was like you now come home and I just know John Kelly's can ever worse day than I did I set it here. It's like his guys at least deck eyes? What is your name or for John Kelly's now? those swam, yes Metz.
Really grower? Ivy Simone was regarded ass. I did it well done. I was I gotta be honest. I was never the same that show after Caruso knows that's good with Bobby some on every line. I know as but I just was never never the same lustre furs, but I guess at the beginning I was not sure and then I would say that shows what great shows doesn't talk about enough. It's one on every change. Television completely Hunter presented. Milch is arguably television writer of all time. You know. He did. Nypd blue in deadwood end with a huge voice and help you flute. I mean, if you put those things together. It's really incredible. I think the first five episodes, maybe five or six of that show really important. In the end, it is tv history of what's going on and have pushed the envelope, and also like that's that that I read.
They go back and reactions, but I really want some of them went pity blues couple years ago and those first like five or six was swimmers for being able to combine those steps in saying I grab, you know, avenues Dick Share Lawrence and all that stuff. Yet the way Good Milch was not give you hurrah cops and yes, there been caught Durban cops. Who were like compromised before that or the cops on tv who might do the wrong thing. But these p, or were truly like human and fucked up people trying to be good copsewood there weren't like cops undertake. But they were like really deeply fact: human bs who knew? they do not relate in case ninety three rate, where We gotta show like that. I'm waiting on here street. There were moments where they were. They were com Mr Weird, there were strange, but they were fucked up psychologically. The way we're on our way people and eightys. It's like I. There is
shall Jerry anniversary in somebody posted a clip was who is CUP of Asia was like the forty five years Mercer Russia share whenever was as a guy get. Oh I've said again: it is so dated job. Surely, cable access, you can't even We thou was good right out, fine. Just it's it's just incredibly dated. Even I think cheers is problematic, The best of any eighty show and even Alan's really dated, but I think the first four seasons of chairs are still lacking the second season, a wise guys, pretty amazing yeah, because yet its basic John Severance and can wall and like dad show that It was very modern. I remember Jonathan Bank suits, everyone loves from what what what the shoe He was a big bang, get out of the back. You know that by then the first, the first four Besides Miami Vice, in the moment, Charlie Barnett, but like guy the pilot, and then
there's one more than the two park outer, runs a ranch, and then those, whereas there are soldiers into intentional out, was the villain, doubtless guy a great opposite, namely a racket got amnesia, get like they have one set of how that, but for the most part eighties tv is it just feels David now and tvs better and its also shot on the square screen verses. Why did the impact of em like I'd you waiting thing or a compelling to look at it because of where it led like do you? the West Wing, if you don't have any law. First, the elevator, is dated, and maybe it is goofy but a kind. Like the way that Dad office worked kind of like there is this progression that lead to swing, which, for me is as good as I have I'd taken, Ojala GO, it was lucky, went away were lucky M Mack. Now, just like not a lot, allow shows when they show came out and they kind of I think, medical. She
LA shows and police shows are always gonna work and whatever the best one is that the time is gonna feel better. Then it is sometimes now the catches lake when ye are starts, and there have been a little bit of nobody, had really known what every week medical shows, but we haven't had like a great one in a while and then for a season. Br was a holy shit and I think that was a great show. That was also place right time and I look at my lawn- it's like good show but right place right time. And then Chicago Hope, was like the neck Bach Winkle of its ears. They knew no net Barkley because, like you had hardly rays and Bruno where the other two champions granite borrowing, it was the chapter of the aid of you. I write a lot of people and that nobody cared richer a Chicago hold your great your Peter heard Mania Cancun. And then that Peter, what Name yet I was a really good show by the way. I think that
sign what you betcha was on. People are now shut which are all these good people and huge pedigree around it permits the same night. They were head. They are yet ever they came. Were for medical job again in two networks were like: let's go in ages was I got it wasn't Thyssen Douglas, but it was I would prefer wrestling. That's why I'm TAT had tasted Douglas as the Roma, yet progressing is probably better. I will wrestling. It was like allegation F, where we have. Nobody was like this. That shows really good Chicago opened and had a good run, and every year like well now there's. Nobody is show tee right now, there's so much to be does matter. I heard that I don't know this exact numbers two. But I heard that right now. Somebody in the industry told me this. There are five hundred and sixty television shows five hundred sir see you later in development, and it's like a real crisis with. How do we find a show runner O. This guy has
so there what we need somebody to run it do it well, our first fifth, choices are already shows. While this person was a key grip on season to billions. What's what's It came the sheriff and like it's like a crisis right now, but we say that George pats us, who is our key grip, would do an amazing easily. I got a giant pats as someone wants her ass. They ran for a long time. Is a good amazing, key grip to see many mention. He grew up in a show, my guy out. They. Never these guys shouted out enough. There's never been a better time for you in the vintages, completely whore yourself out the second share going may not always jug about only you could just completely mail in the worst thing ever get over paid for the problem, like some wrestling drama from there from the nine Is there an just just take the money supply? Thank you. Take the one head I shall stop there. I next one doing a shitty thing. You feel so bad. I mean you know how I felt about run a runner. You make something and it comes out badly. You just feel
awful. You never told me the runner runner story, though, because at that movie that on paper should have worked. I was. I know this sounds composer offshore yeah, but you should know what would not to watch. I might say I never used the tip off. It was the good was when I was like now do not bother. Like on my or male wafers. Guenever first carry my friend size. Whatever you do, don't go pastor herbs stay there were head, is there but don't go pastor, Arbs Isaac? Ok, I just listed, erodes the safe they with. With that run, run around our you're. Like don't watch us, it was A combination of the wrong like the movie was that, Lectures vision for the movie was so different from Wesley Morris wrote a review for you than I thought was astute where he seemed to understand what the movie could have been the directive does not a different vision than we did and the problem was both of us. We're talking on the rope, so yeah
the director would go up and made it. Maybe he would have made a good movie, but it wouldn't be anything like the movie? We want to enter the thing just came in his in between the best we can describe it as we. The guy was supposed to dress The way Andrews now and like a hoodies was the work in Costa Rica at an awe, You don't online betting place off shore, where you basically innocent sure, you're out your computer you're their cause? a little bit commie and your something's not right about why you have to like become an ex pat leave. All yes and it was with this guy kind of finding himself through coming up against a guy bad intentions, but the moment just in who I like and who worked really hard on the movie. But the moment the cash just in everyone's are talking about the suits you unaware, and even I would like to know if you were suits the things we do seem fake, yeah like and then once you may suit decision. Eh decision that follows,
while I visited visitation rights, and so each thing kills the movie each thing it's like Britain did go so far away from the thing that you want to be, and then they start to do our script. Which was written to be this other thing, and it was just one of them times where the elements just didn't add up, and why don't you just redo the thing. Is I got Netflix areas are so what are you just never think about it again, but also I look at those guys like David Chase. Made one show when he was making this products and that one May one show when he was making madman. That doesn't mean that tomorrow, if contains for David, I can announce Michel, but the truth that it is. There is something about your subconscious mind only working on the world now that you ve, created and you're trying to make I'm leaving all day long somewhere with acts and chalk and learned Wendy, right and wax. And that means, if I'm reading a book about the masters,
The union should be the masters at the same time cause I'm coming out for us. I, which is lifelong dream kind of a thing. I was reading a book and about the masters and talk about you know the Guy Cliff Robert who built the thing with thumb. Parents is named cliffs and want to get wrong, but There are built it with Bobby Jones and they mentioned some banker from the early part. Of the nineteen hundreds and the way they reference this banker, I'm just reading Are the masters I'm like? Oh, that's, fascinating right, I'm right down sending an email to myself, because I know that something there'll be referenced. Season of the show, because swirling in living yeah my imagination, some part of it is constantly working on billions and so withered amassing billions a show in the League of Madmen Esperanto some. But for me it's the for David me. It's our shot to do something that matters to people
is audience that really the people love our show, love it in the way that I loved madman in this problems. They love it that way, and so I have a whole other group of people who, like air and just enjoy watching it yet and there a mercenary there. I got I like that, like that's great, you liked us get off for all the p. Watching the show make me happy and the people to wait like yes, please watch the show. You know if you watch that sets of like just watch it annoy me sometimes somewhat I'll, be like a lot of the time. Someone will tweet it me too to take a shot at both shows. Hey, you shows smart suits and like as though they think that's going to insult both for guy who run suits and me the annual suited for perfect for what it is like that show on USA that guy's, so smart in the way he makes that show and like you, I think it's in your mind is smart suits. I just want Shih. Tzus is very smart, but that's fine whatever you want to find it, but what Dave and I have to do for the people who watch it the way that we would watch it
Is I try to make it as real and fun and filled with everything that we are thinking about, everything that, where feeling about the world- and I dont know how to put my focus on that smart enough this, but my focus and make something else, same time. I I you know so we may know show this being a short except just a lot out of you were out of me anyway. I'm working at the top of my capacity, which may be says more about my positive than the job, but that's just iron back there. I think ready and calm as light that if you really are the way if the only thing you're doing I've been around or writing a book or anything where huge. You had a stoplight thinking about it and if we add to stop thinking about nineteen other things, because this is happening in that's happened anywhere it about, then that's when you're in trouble. I think about this a lot because David Benny off who, along with Debbie
this makes came a thrones. I think David bending of might be among, like the five best living american novelists, yeah and he's not, writing, novels right. It kills me that that guy is like to pry I I know he gets annoyed with friends for longer than he gets annoyed me when I say it to him, because he's like I'm pretty involved in this this round should make a show of all time. Yeah fattened could, but I know, but I'm thinking like go. I wished it. If people haven't read city, even if you will read books for one, but this year, each city of thieves I recommend the book. Every person I've ever known as read the book is like thanked me for it yeah affairs, the other day It has his Friday book of whatever, because any said I told the to like. I can't believe how amazing this book is. This book is, and but I can't put the focus either. He has to make a show and then maybe he'll make write. Another or she was the only right, novels, because I'm sure city thieves took everything here,
was he with a twenty four hour? Yeah yeah, its neighbours vaguely movie. Yet he wrote that novel and the screenplay, and then he wrote them. I will send movies fucking us yet great movie now you have to say that the Ed Norton run from like primal fear other way through twenty fifth. Ours is legitimately while the federated, you know this I know you love Edna, due to you the first time that I'm for you I mean, do you know what he did the first time we Madame David. I with I am, I said to you in a mailbag when we did like up. Would you call those things genius? did boat. It was pre packaged in one of those things called we're way. When you re a sky, curious guy, I would he back and forth with people as it was. Of what I want to do, the package that I did know existed yet just so we desire to use whatever they did. Fifteen thousand words between us. We went out for they too egos it forever and its Annie. It's somewhere in the end was really an idea. You could go find it means talking to David me, but the so the work about it
remain on our agreement on rounders mats Castro, we're gonna make the movie somehow we get it to Edward and he would have no one likes the script, but he wants to go. He must meet the guys who wrote it and go to a poker casino to see how real all this appears. So David, I fly out too. From New York and we go to his house now. All we know from his primal fear and deals Flint movie wishes incredible. He was really good and that at times like the best actor and he done them, the Woody Allen movements as I live in exile and movie legend has gone. Nobody align accommodation in ten years. Yes, people verse life now acceptable form. One of the greatest directors ever made a dash for fuck's sake So we gotta go to meet Edward. He invites sovereignty house and we walk in there. We dont know em all miss from those movies from primal fear the Larry Flint movie. We walk in his house and he's like pig eyes of I'm just watching.
Web editing this movie on making right now and do mine just watching with me. So we can see if it works, the sequence I've just put together and he walks, as this house is mostly empty, but he had his big tv in the corner any pushes play. I guess his dvd that dates. Number maddening room and it's the curb I'd seen in american history exe Walk in his shown, so liberally we'd said forwards to him: hey man, nice major fibres and you were watching the thing any he plays it do the whole beginning a movie. So he is having sex that storm Superman. That music is playing he goes out on the street up through many turns around with his hands above his head. He's got the guns. Boy got hit, kills the guy the ads He's got huge muscles and David, I just beach, I'm you can imagine seeing that just a guy to him and I'm looking at screen and I'm staring at him and it s not like what you think
have you no hope we got me. That's on believe what the fuck you. She has more organs to. Let's go play cards, and I mean I couldn't looks like a half hour in the car on the way there could sounds like this most disturbing I've ever seen in my life at re. Worse, I mean total things a movie stars ever done on a screen yeah, a guy who became a movie star to do that thing. On a screen- and it was just mean Levine in him in his house, watching it, and we said like that before We were like. How are you by the end of the night was clear, like he's a brilliant amazing, well read hidden guy in the character. I guess an intellectual Dinah, Tolstoy, Americans reactors obstacle changes and serving pair movies, excellent worth seeing for sure, like it's another the only thing it s, foot some flaws, and I know they changed directors who employ and I'm sure, there's five things out differently now, but it's worth it eating it. Just
really unique where we, I don't think, there's another movie light that I wish he had shown you the Basque Bossy now, because I have an issue that for twenty years, five key finishes the pick up game with the two hand: dunk, reverse in traffic. He's like five ten he come on he's. I hereby docked ominously really dug the war. I think you really don't It goes a seven four rib reactors will surprise. You, though, like to actually went out there. That surprises me with a reverse, to hand down take more. I want to get ass. Anyone Norton Woodhouses, really get about heard him into company, are apparently want to have nuclear power. Little Clooney till I put a lot of Clooney basketball. He's really great athlete lad clans back. But really graphically. I know Joe Real good company ASEAN plead for Princeton Reno coming now he tried out for the Billy oil part. You did yeah, he didn't get. It here robust, feel better about hates Woody Harrison weren't take a break to talk about the all new B
Debbie Ex Three, which was that bill for everyone engineer for those who share desire, more more passion, more ambition, more making. Every second count, the new Bmw Extry Plank, capable of doing more than when I think about people have more power even more ambitious and more class than the competition. I think about Bobby Axelrod. Now I said NED, not the class part striving to be the best doing. It takes to stand out, throwing everything you haven't you. Your work is being done Bobby. We're gonna, be a value out right, that's Bmw! Ok, you write. The Bmw extra is capable of more with the level performance. You expect from being there I drive six point out with intuitive touch screen. Viable safety features like active by inspire detection. Next generation extra, intelligent, all we'll drive the all new Bmws rebuilt.
And or whatever road terrain or adventures, I had no matter what test drive the Anu New, Bmw Ex three at your local Bmw centre today. Bmw on makes one thing is the ultimate driving machine We should in outside you're doing the renders our history twentieth anniversary thing with us you getting at broached by other outlets. Apple value and Levine. You understand the opening address gave me right. It has to be with us and that's why you're were also announced in the next morning. The next six months are going to my pocket within the next cycle, languidly twelve to fifteen months. I do it back. I done data data stated you in the Vienna the gate, papers, for the renders twentyth anniversary has tried, and you know maybe I'll ring. Aren't we want to do it with you. We everyone's ass game and I moved like New Zealand, Australia or something I don't know. It will be hard to get him the greatest and I think, would put
given our get at learning and will you know it's been announced America, which is in this season of billions yeah? I want to talk about the playing a russian billionaire guy. You want asked me about it. Well, I think you know your audience at this point. You know your audience Ozma. Commodore Anders you, basically bringing that character back you bringing Eddie KGB back, but that really what kind of sort of its thoughts had occasion needs a russian billion. That's what I mean is going to try and have sorted out just John Malkovich with a rush. It acts that, if a powerful person that the peace when the world of the show have to respect and grapple with mighty say the word satisfied during the course of the season mighty say the word aggressive, it's possible he had passed the mighty Evan Oreo. It would have the two about persona allowances are pushing it or you would be pushing book one poker. Now now he's
about playing a totally sitting on fuck an hour. It was an amazing thing, man that the guy you know we can do like five after he's been on the show, Would you get your levying a target and we had like talk about it, but I will say I I taxed at him. We had this idea for this character and people giving us a list of people who could play the character. The character came before John. In the way we research the show, as we speak A lot of time at these hedge millionaires now fear, and they tell us everything if we don't precisely not reveal who said what their certain guys will allow us to one, Those guys is more glossary homes, the box yeah, we talked a mark. All
time is very valuable to play a celebrity basketball game stay. I beat him in horse which really bothered him this and bring up the bar he's a very good basketball by thinking honour them. Both of us he's good bees, copies older am aiming to bring up the body more years to admire it. Isn't a very large is a very good bad Latvia, at some point of us, become a stretch for and that she goes I hit by pointed aged forty, three as a stretch for I am a stretch for young mark rats and I'm a threat. Yes, I accepted becoming a threat at a certain point, yet that's fine! you're really stretch for, I believe you might have felt like you are three, but I wasn't it. Ever comes a stretch for just as a man, I believe life. I too, in your stretch, for when you pass forty four. I can believe my back to the basket a little bit, so we had this idea the character then David. I were talking and we were like you know. If John would do it It would have all the extra residencies that Euro, like alluding,
that wasn't the thing it was like, if John replace this character of this very wealthy man from Russia, it would just l the thing because he's one of the greatest living actors he's brilliant person and I wrote of industry characterise it if you became, and he instantly wrote back like a hundred per cent game, what's figure out how to do it, in his very aggressive and its past they will say the word aggressive Dan grazing. I know you're take care me. I know you take care of my renders the possible that word is said, but but the character we heard from some of these headphone people all about dealings they had with a cup of russian billionaires and the word they talked about it made us realized, asked story, arc possibility, and then it was like what're. You build that right. You, you do all this research
We also talking to you as turning people all the time and we're talking to people used numerous attorney's office, and would you you're asking about like situations they ve they faced and from that you're gonna build these fictional characters and a bunch of people are talking about. The kind of influence that russian money can have not Russia money, like the governments over the kind of influence when someone who has billions of dollars might invest with you. How how it's different areas russian so that story He shows up later in the season, but without it too much awaited is Bobby acts read like this character. They Bobby, I should have seen with the character for short and want to spoil it I mean. How is it s you will really enjoy? Of course, I will end with one of these airlines Are you guys you become fast by little pockets of whatever
You go all in your call, girls, what's going on here and then you and creating a shout about a cobra. Yes, when we made the moving, I mean, but yeah standards and inspire the exact area. Would you like? Do though I think it's not that it's not dissimilar to your obsessions amount of seeing your object, a bird that's been your obsession that led to all those pleasantly unbiased some people have pictures of God. I have laboured yeah social media has been good for the Basque about Jesus. Why is it because those neurons at the little videos and the gifts like the highlight things him in magic. It's been especially good for them is a bit like the little form, I've had a basketball book worldview I have also many different thought. You top five justify players. I think leubronn mood than the top five and force. Of course you did honey, I Shan T did he did we did. It would be ridiculous andean, Burghardt BAR six now near it hurts, I think, that's fair
His magic was a hare above bird which also her when I did it, but only the book to be accurate and ass right now. I think it's Jordan Russell Leubronn. Permeable magic magic yeah. I might he's gonna pass magic. Is these guys are all gone fifteen twenty years now and at some point The totality of the career like as much the bran were taken as Thursday. The brown last night against Toronto with does not have a great team Leubronn. It puts up the thirty five and seventeen no turnovers and basically in the last six minutes, every time we went into the room kid you could argue offers a way. This is the best he's ever That is the entire career, which makes no sense, but in a cream was somewhere right use cream was had spent four years in college and then had his first seven years were as great as anybody
Even then eighty five finals he stole the go to guy, like some guys, aren't you got over him and when he got the Karim got the amazing thing than having magic for the end of his career break but he still idea around. Doesn't this guy and high in the bride has justice fanatical ability to prove his body and two as a difference at all the stuff he does is also incredibly small megabrontes, incredibly small, gaining intelligence, he's, got a little M J side term there to wear again. Last night Purnell tried to stop them, they get switch and he goes by purred olenin dogs on and the bronze writing bags get his ass out here. It's like, I was a little, Josh, yeah, Nora, which I don't think it's aside he's had until the last couple years. Well, I like the little bit of the killer. In the brain. You know when your neck spaniel out fund other things toward foreign, so we route from abroad and all
I like eighty two and I like on state, but I route for I wrote for IRAN and I haven't you made the argument. Tat Leubronn is like in the three or four spot of all time. Yet I think he is Ray lowest. I do thank you fight you can in any way and if he's gonna, if he's gonna, do this for two more years and its seventeen straight years of this, he gets through space, narrow, overtaking Jordan. For guys, like me, in me, never overtaking Jordan Fidessa near that's how I feel too, but I think this keeps going. You gotta really start looking at George having to leave in the prime is correct, as use burned out. Jordan, two guys guys like Joe Louis, that characterise the barbershop area and listen Joe lowest skies, bringing up your Louis, like joy, integration acquire but the bran every year every year just comes back,
Any plan is needed. A hundred games in Jordan had to take a break in the middle of his career in that light that, at some point, that's can be accomplished if I were, I think, he's like a lot of you. Younger than us. One pound to people in your staff say you're ridiculous to faint. Jordan is better on behalf of my staff. Thanks, Kobe was the first Basque about where right, yeah, that's what that's! When the abbess started right, who had the data, they? leave that those are so where's cobia on their list in their minds is Kobe TOP five Kobe is the advanced. Metrics have not been kind of goby. Now that it's fire, they divided the book again, which I would never ducas, I'm too old The advance metrics part of it would have been really kind of fun to figure out, if, if not more so as my calibration rape there's some guys from the past. Where you look at the stuff, they were doing like birds, bra birds, advance, metrics, actually, kind of a Bay
but nobody even knew how are like Stockton or Somethin Stockton were good. I d bug there's guys. I marked ice in their sentences that jump out. They can convey our goal now, which I love. What you wrote about tiny in the book. Yeah we're tiny now stay. I am right behind I'm shooters. Thou do as well so like that, like people like Iverson are gonna lose their impact. The idea now has a score doesnt work in when you just look at the numbers. That would have been the justification for guys like that, you'd say what he was a score. Who had to do that? He had a bet. It's like somebody like T Mac, as the years go on, is gonna actually raise in value, because people look at some of the seasons out loud. Oh, my god, but also your hundred. I test, though I test is the tree, some of which have a team act deferred the did the first ever in game off the backward, Bela dont great You ever forget seeing that now, but I tell you this is one
Since I wrote the book when I did, I felt like I test. Is this thing there fades away, and then you end up with fifty years. From now people time in a calm on was the greatest forward about time like no, it wasn't. I was there you didn't have longer, I'm alone, I don't wanna, know best he's in the top twenty, but there's gonna as that time passes. There's him is statistically case that bills are, you know, is the best forward. Coral Malone's like now that shop so began running. I worry about it. Many measures laying ok, you might have thought that boy was playing a lotta people thought he was dead, our forward of all time. Look there alone people who would say he was the best that they ever saw because remember when I was playing we didn't know, even when the title we thought he would win, that its authors, two guys would win the championship, ray during the run. You expected those two guys to win the title. But this is so now. You remember in this room, so tell me they kind of peak and get their asses kick every year and we all gave up on them.
Then I was like Robinson Elijah on you and all the other stuff out, centers now and then delete gets diluted it all the sudden, this aging jazz team, just kind of bite waiting. Everybody out and guy out in her get all the sudden they rise up, but it was like where's version of the team when they were in their primes member that I do remember like those final sort of like packages that the people would shy remaining all that problem alone, truck rain rationalize various team. I remember then, like then during those games, and they would show that criminal and truck packages were thirty, showing the first that run like at the end. You would always chrome alone, with all the trucks at a fan, yeah and but but even then people were talking about with that. Come back those two guys being one of the greatest. Sort of combo. Oh yeah, the league moved in their favour. Leviticus, You don't have any more about this than I do. I'm just a bachelor SAM, real student league slowed down. You're not really help them,
now you may think of egg, where the league is now. It really helps her in gas. You know, like the league, does the position it's in right now is just unbelievable for James Harden. This is like the best version of the league. He ever could have played it where it's it's, it's this advance, auto I saw just and just costly gaze switch in the wrong guy on you and your surrounded by shooters in Egypt, any like a jet and he could figure. Would we when do you think that I wouldn't have been amazing? I think he would have been so between seventy five and ninety percent of what he is now. What like you at what period when We will want to know when we will be free was considered a great he's. He's a hunt how much better let s go back to your very you when you're favour the rally, necks, ya, think about the big guys that are just in the pain, sure there's six guys and there at all times you now and now that paints opened and they ve spread it out.
It's just like he's got this binding here and those guys are all down stepping back in hinges over he's doing that. Something I gave in line with our game thing. If he was planting a mace was going and I love Anthony Mason. I wrote as obituary for sports illustrated like I love Anthony. Maybe they love intimacy, I loved him, but he would every Mason fall down Mason would have knocked The way I might is right am I agree. There would hardly went up Mason. What made him now want to come to the lane like hard, ok, really, good boy, pardons tat, threes, ten threes, a game and ten fritter attempts again, which is absurd. It makes no sense and if If I told you twenty years ago, somebody's gonna do that you would have been confused. So I flew here with next to the stylist for this this. Woman is the stylist for harden yeah it. Andrea, our and hydrated. And one other and be a great. I just can't we're ok,
and Chris Patten, and she was annoyed because when he came to the pod gas Riven annoyed, but a Hindu upon cares that in a pre accredited check that I fear that he's wearing she picked up this plan, and I wish your grandfather, she picked those pieces, the jacket, but not that whole. Sound to be worn. Maybe exact, the shutting gray, but she was like. Combination. Well, it was wishers progress, but she said that all the NBA guys we'll send her tears Bobby Axelrod. They'll send her she's, like I everything about. You shall looks, but I'm a washed it because these guys are constantly sending me go. Like images of acts in your show, because they want to look like we should talk about this, MBA, prayers and love it and wrappers and hip hop artists. Absolutely love your show. It is their number one share makes me so happy happy beyond words lad. Is there no resonate with the wealthier black celebrity commuted
so you know them better than I do those poor. I dont know a lot of them young players and we know a couple of them. Yet you tell me why I dont know I I I partially they it's a rich gotcha. At a rich guy, shows that they would identify with there's. Or a kind of model? A minor chess match the day I like Katy, so we both know that Katy loves the show on your podcast, India in magazines and he's told me and I think yet. These are young men who have a lot of power and influence. They come up against a monolith in the league or whatever else that trying to curb their individuality here, and so then they see this guy Bobby Axelrod, whose, like in a way that model is trying to keep down Superdome Sedative Guide, Eric he's competitive he's got
Our he's got influence of his own, and can he outsmart this sort of thing I think really from for me? That's my guess added and I think yeah you can relate to act his axe, isn't stuffy billionaire he's, not a billionaire like the way like he's that, MR, how from Gilligan gallons Island he a guy who wears MR, how usage, Mr Allister, who put he's a star what kind of a billion ere he is cool, and so that's my my guess it, but I love hearing that their centre stylists tears of what acts is wearing. I do think there should be more rich guy shows because MBA pairs of also loved entourage, which the last few seasons tailed off, obviously in any care because they loved the private jets scenes in the night clubs in the restaurants and the different there in Hawaii their inquire, their malibu
they didn't just identify with their cause. That's an hour late. Always like entourage, but I think on trojan- I don't you show up on Thursday there yet, but I think onto rush gets a badly ass, a rich guy, I know, but I'm just in general. I think the dog Allen had voice in tone and that show, I agree with the idea that he actually mean made a show that was like didn't try Anything other than it was, and he made a half hour that was like entertaining every week. I hardly think season. One is now under it right. First few seasons that show Caesar what is a really good season. The tv and I am in the in the moment- I probably underrated it because I'm by wrote about four page, do and I was writing about it from the frustration of this a show I I didn't realize I was wanted, but I do- and I wish they had done this this list, which is, I think, I'm sure they were both billions public I'd. Never Doyle one of the show, but I did I want to know about. I want to go into this world of hedge fund people and we had no idea that people would respond to it. You know
there's no way by the way you're here, partly lying, no I knew. That is when you told me the idea for the show you would like it now, when I told idea for this, as I that's a hombre, I didn't know that, like people who weren't like the NBA players you're describing, would understand, I think we did a couple things that made sense by making acts are poor kid who became this and making Chuck a rich man. A rich guy, YO and you know, which is something that you for that was a smart decision for giving kind of reading interest in the ways that you do so the guy supposed to be the good guys is compromised and certain other ways meanings but the traditional good guy. We never ever thought of it in terms of good guy Yemen. I freaked me I've been a great way to people, did the show in the way that they take it Like I'm afraid I did a great you created great female character. Yeah, you have a bunch of us,
morning characters that become like almost like a basketball team. Owing ILO S. Reading weighty roads finally makes up for Joe being the worst character in a great movie like tat, we cleared the desk. So good. Now that we can be forgiven for creating Joe Rounders Joe Rounders, yeah, do we cover that in the euro history? Here we we can cover, it sure, want what you want to cover side. They make you wanna Coppermine first this to since we ve ever talked about this matter, about, Joe being the ultimate wet blanket girlfriend. This is Matt Damon Girlfriend in the movie in every seen exists for her just two. Bring Matt Damon out in the audience. But this is the air, of the wet blanket girlfriend. I know you're gonna go an haitian rascal, which is one of the things about an asian brass, go breast of another movies ever and it's the best movie?
our age, that we live in now, because you can, the movie loses nothing by skipping every seen, she's Anthea except the phone call. I want to listen to you breathe, you need that or the number. That from the beginning it had. I been bad I am over the game with Kevin CASTOR. It's a love story, but if you actually, if they re, edited air, only those prevailing scenes out it's one of the best one hour movies about that that's great movie. So I then we do not work for me. I should love that movie. The baseball great great. We had take one more break. Google assistant evident living with then read. What should I do, and I dont know them so tell me what am I? What do I need to know about was you can complete over? a million actions on your phone in your car, and around the house, for instance, you say: hey, Google,
Ah I turned it add see you could say well, I can't believe that picked it up for their well said the buzzword here, you'd say: hey Google book me a table for four at major Domo. Sure, let's make a reservation with open table for for people at Majordomo, then they would merely respond with an answer and it's not easy and for some is busy as you. I would urge you to download the Google assistant. It could be like your own personal assistant that you just order around it can't get you a major no one can get a majordomo, as should the rat Google says download a right now varies it again and then up on an app and eureka, we got a ladder gonna Chang Thea, he's an indian guy,
he's at eyelids Google's as day by showing networks. I just want to say it was your favorite. When I love the pizza. Three and fried right. The home, home, cooking and progress is have a couple more billions. Things that may it under the jack would be to show you want to be like rollicking and entertaining, but the danger is that it would become Campi, which is a line that you guys have not really crap, maybe dipped over once twice three times over the course is, but you really that a nice job of monitoring the rollicking it caning side verses there. This is fucking stupid, come on guys, come on. Don't do now, stop it. How much do you think that balance? Because, in my opinion, that the key to the show my partners, amazing it that an ad knowing where the line is left around devices I might push over it occasionally, but Dave is really amazing. It sort of
You have a conversation which you have Amory. We can't do that that you almost dead that, no one we don't really even they don't get. I would tell it like it. They would never gave it up. My men. Are you just in a room talking through the vines and spit bawling and sometimes B, something from life right. You could come in with something that some billion air someone's hold you, but if you ask, didn't on the show just seem corny yeah and overdone and fake anyone believe it did. The truth is David, our both costly. Thinking about the tone of the show in the mood of the show and how we do want is to be entertaining like We don't want it to be worked to watch it right if people want to fick out it from the show their clear, and you can do it if you want. Figure out what we're saying about the world its there for you yet, but We also want to our enthusiasms to come into the showing. That is really what the show is right. It's things that, for since David I've been best friends were
sixteen years old or whatever fifteen we shared this language about pop culture and we're not so we it's like in making the show we're going to try to make it for guys like us or people who have the spirit that we yeah and women, and not gender people ever ever had the ringer and who yet but who men and women in a non gender people who are just people who have. Kind of enthusiasm as we do, whoever bent for being an enthusiast who just love this shit. So what can the first episode it's been in the trail as it has been amazing to me, there's a run and you'll see that any sort of with wag saying Miriam just read a check. Your body can't cash like a you people online reliant what brilliant wine for billions and I wanted to screw. Like what are you ever seen a watch or show gives you have to understand. That's not our line, that's a top gun
I am sure in the scene. We make that really clear. We said we say those words and the scene but like that always gonna be a part of our showing off. Somebody doesn't like that. We're not can it we could have changed our show and knew how to do it. So we just be like serious drama like yeah, I'm on the face of it. Just pure prick. Steve, but honestly, we wanted to make a show. That was a good time to watch, and so, if we talk on quota cursed us and wise, say it really give wags the fuckin toppling quote and if it doesn't take years, theories meter, and you want to go watch something else. Instead, go watch that other show. That's fine I'll, be watching the crowned with you. That's fine grade. And then the other side of it were also not gonna. Go get really silly. We're not gonna. Take it to a place, as you said that these characters wooden Campi did the characters wouldn't really the thing that its Campi, that it turns out there s sure,
we don't get, matters do not usually diseases. Ecstasy were excellent and then it became a little canopy and over the top, and they couldn't stop at. Why, like the perfect rattling, I always let it take in wrestling when the guy started going hired higher and all the sender jumping off forty foot scaffolds. It's like we ve gone to hide out. This is not sustainable Well, you were with the storytelling, I think, when the for me, when the stories got too like sex murder, level and rustling area, I lay ninety Sierra Leone is the war. The war between the two things happened. Yes, I was like. I can't watch this any. Hold. I rather that, because we were finishing with Andrei, ok cause you you're, more excited that and Andrzej the giant documentary, it say, you're automobile has for documents that, yes, woman billions question. Taylor was the break out kind of new cars. Tourist season to and is a cool character in a bunch of different ways, mainly because I I've never seen anything like Taylor on television before, but you also see how that would suit.
I think, was gonna work anyway, but then you find an actor amazing. Who was really great and Canada has commanded the scene and was even in scenes would like acts in a couple. Other people were Catalan when you're staring at the whole time. There's kind hit in the latter. It was a man of his character lottery is it's all the things you could offer? That's one of those things Was we read a lot of people for our part, we did Only read JANET, I'm buying people we read: women for their role red men for that role? Why did you become fascinated by the concept of a gender now binary Carol. Their cause as you and I are both older- people. Older white men there's a lot the world it's happening that were not aware of unless our kids bring. Home and tell us about it there and- was one day when SAM a college and Hannah had high school Anna came home and say
called home and they both told us the same story. I was in a class and the nature, asked everyone's go around and say there genders their gender pronouns. And I remember Amy and I go with it really than a day, maybe not the sandy, but within a day Wednesday, Thursday? Anna came home until this It was the beginning of a semester. That's why they both they both gone for some ass, their new semester and had to say hurry and I'm a thoroughgoing wait. I don't understand just a cheer lack of understanding this to me. I'd was that we would you mean, explain your gender and then I'm as my meal, it went get it you mean someone, maybe he's transition so they want to be called she and then both and everywhere. There is also the programme that- and I didn't understand I mean I just truly being Oh, do just didn't understand it. In Uppsala, I'm still having trouble understanding, they were just so all that we're home now, I'm Fiametta Swimming honour room would like a ringer ever meeting in its and its women and men.
An egg eyes, and it's like you know how to do that, and I just like you. I can't stop doing because I'm forty eight and I'm just use the same thing, sir away. When the blood for your fiftieth birthday, like how big a meeting in a dynamic just leave the country and never come back. So the thing is that that would happen and one of a writers, Willie Realities, name, had had met. Also agenda on binary person, so I brought the story and writers Room of hey there's. This do you guys know about front like when you start need some new, you say: you're pronouns and most the regiment was really said I just met somebody and I, The person comes to the regiment talk to us about it, and we would like you to do that and then I grilled, my kids about people they met, and so they told me this. Worries, and we realized what we want bring someone entice. Capital could be like a protege someone. An ax would see himself in in a certain way. We didn't want it to be typical, or
What you would expect. We wanted me sort of seemed on the surface to have nothing in common with acts, but added back at the cor. Had a lot in common right. So the notion of making this general character and put him in the world came to us slowly, then we started auditioning people, one other actors are close but when Asia Cato and came in the room there was just in it elegance in their eyes and highly paid use. The pronounced folk I'm sorry it's my life. I know I'm sorry, I'm so bad it. I want to get better, but I've been. I have a gentleman butter person in my life where every death, like I'm with Asia every day of my life, so there's no way you're, not gonna get trained in it and trainees Alfin it end. But the point of it is that is this incredibly powerful actor? You are right and was able to use the first seen therein with my fee and it's that scene where Taylor says, of course, I'm a vision.
And I remember that day being onset and if the answer that I gotta worry the latter there and were onset that day and the thing just had that life, it was exactly what we'd better hope it better than we'd written it yet because they were so the chemist. Between the two them I mean Dan, is a guy who played for his whole life and is a great ally. The true kind of like brought, you know dude here and Suddenly there was a magical thing between the two of them we're like, or we can write this is a real thing and then the first time that Asia and Damien had seen together the second up. So last year it was your cracked. It was like hitting lottery, we looked at each other like while this is we can do this thing. We hope and we'd hoped we could do, thing. It would go over a bunch of years with the two other. So what happens? With the Emmy award category of I'm submitted, you actor and there was a lotta cut conversation in Asia present. At the MTV awards the first,
engendered gendered word. So what is it did research and found out that actors not gendered word actress is engendered word highly. He's activate, shows you. They made the error com. Twelve years that merits Europe's greatest actor right, when even say just what I lay momentarily Oscars one when fragment armour was like Merrill, you stand these dad everybody or stand just acknowledging tat would even if she's winning the best actor as she's, really best actress she's, like merrill. Everyone knows you're real. He like she like everyone in the world. In France, I dont think anybody's really is goodest ran Mcdermott, I didn't she is arguably like the best of her who's, your favorite Mcdermott firm, its I mean you could go right from simple. All the way and we forget heart- beat Fargo that at that almost famous My fair ass, a pointed the album. This is such a harsh. Pointed the eyes on the island to do like that. You'd just start weeping said our hard road
make her like a ball way. She brain she's great into she's great, but what's funny his ministry by thinking what Michael Jordan is too basketball on see. You just can't unseen now number one, but even like in the room at sex, she is the most important actor Europe. That's the thing tat! I was saying that who is I mean, maybe data they Louis to some people. Last thing we did was ripped through this quick. I asked you to twelve suds verse. Ten and now we are on you, you did twelve. You're happy again the shown their late due to over like great what is the right number of episodes? First season, you ve talked you in a tour. But ideally what is the red episode? I don't know, sir. I know the last year saying when you ask her before we run the mice, When we rode eleven David, I wrote as a tool and if you haven't seen at its establishment, is generally considered the best episode of the show other than like the last two of last year, If we consider the best too and we wrote to eleven
I'm remember, writing it finishing David. I wrote it together Saying to him. Should we just try to end the season here, because I don't know how we can talk this in this season. It builds doll. Thing is built to this. But having that final episode, which could have decision which could it has been an epilogue, actually enabled us to start a bunch stuff for the seas, and let us conclude by bringing when a spoil the last season right now so turn this off now tuna now don't Parnassus. By the end of last season, it turned out. I expect that everybody to say that the two Heaven was their favorite episode by far a lot of people at the twelve episode of last season, because of like What action is going through an watch? How can we were going through like for a lot of people? The very end of it was the best thing of the two years, so I might have no truck with issues. Expert I've never used expression have no truck within twenty years. He's the twice in this by guessed, but
I'm no problem of doing what episodes, how many seasons does this go? I'm we love to do seven emigrated sucks and then in the seven seas and I'll be like no, I want to eat. I always wanted eight because, though, offer us enough to do ate up I'll make it like was always ate seasons in our eyes. It wasn't. It was seven, but I'd love to Tipp will do it. We should mention that last year we did a pike ass. I said, Brady you, they needed a rich sports honorary needed acts by a team or something- and you were just like stated There- the dumb look on your face in the third sector, three episode. A future EU makes another run in an mba team. I think the embryo cooperate. I think all the stars about a bit like a time is nodding over there Maybe that sees him. Five each year makes another run in an mba team. I think the abode cooperate. I think all the stars were a bit like a time is adding over there. Maybe you chose to buy from Joel.
Who, by the way, absolutely be available to be in balance, acts makes are, Joe Lake herbs warriors to his heart. To do this. I don't know either Ecuador support who, by the way above would be actors. And then you're off. I under the J, really quickly do so it's coming out. The tenth on HBO heads up on that We didn't railroaded oriented way. I questions because I wish this. I watch the documentary you know I freaked out here. I love you, you would. I love for all the reasons you thought I was U S and how hard it is to actually make a good sports document is, is because we ve done it. S really hard years is get Connor's. Minus protest on called the fifth best. Thirty, four thirty, but years that we maintain a list of these thirty asked. Yeah eight makes me so upset.
I hate that why I love. Where would you like when something that is like what are your babies and inside now? Don't rank these over time to play now everything I have listed more than any one and I got so upset, whereas I left so that the progress of Gujarat, number five you'd second produced grab, so let's really your victory. If there are winners, I would never that whenever rank the Thirtyth Thirty's, it's your victory but which target but here's the thing Did you know how dark a guy Audrey was good? It did it. That's why I wanted to do it but do we really Gorman rode up to do what Furthermore, Andrea was away woman, wrote you like, and what one common wrote was a great you people, who find that amazing take five hundred words five hours a week when he died about, and what were these grants are making princess problems like yet and the way he painted him, and I only have one problem- the document, but one so that how dark he was the greatest thing to see what he would through every day to see the future
the other wrestlers had in real life not wrestling fear the actual fear they had yet of disappointing Andre. The love thy out for him So is this combination of fear and love that they had like either idolized hymn sheet, the way that he changed the sport and you get into this thing at I'm kind of obsessed with which is the end of the territories Yet it was a little would be utterly that actually I've wanted to you show about it. It's to me like one of the greatest would have instead is one of the most amazing stories ever yeah, but the the priority only problem a habit is that you guys in tell the same Samuel back at thing that so I dont know You know, that's not the dock like it's. A kind of data somebody, I don't understand the documentaries without the Samuel Beckett think we're gonna we do a director directed Jason AIR Tat Guy! Wasn't it Pike S wearing a splain. Why but there's a specific reason for it. Nobody Mason
we stand. It's like the most interesting thing about the guys life poisoning the documentary. What if I told you it was a true who, are you sure it's not require will you couldn't proved that it was true motel into? the Jason Hair thing: whenever angel did Samuel back it I'm not going away a video of near not giving away. It is very important as to have an accurate documentary. I was another is another reason why put in stuff, like he had back surgery in nineteen eighty six in they had to veterinary into us, like you can put all that stuff in thereby I'm not asking about you. Don't know how to draw the right. Is Beckett had to pick up trouble just asking about the drive to school that back put em. I took him on, when he gonna have to listen the Jason Hair package that, with their ok well, the documentary is really great other than then. Why did you make it all about finding out of the back? It thing was true: will maybe we something in the works for that. Well, I want to see
We believe the fucking leg. Documentary is great because you see something that I've never ever ever ever seen in my life before you. Genuine human emotion, and from man, and you see a moment we're instrument on acting. I want spoil the already not spoil the few things that I want to say. Lagrange's money went money, went to you that cuz. Then you know only about that, but. You do see genuine human emotion, I like true emotion from vents, and I thought was brilliant quest. That was posed, events and the way that she try not to show motion but couldn't help himself. Hold me so much about all sorts of things. I've wondered about the world per wrestling. Like how it always on him descends gets your net next Netflix show up. I yet I mean. We David. I would love to make a show about that about the territory
reason that have instead would put you is on his arm involved up up up, make it happen. Noise I mean we ve met vents like we're about this I dunno, it's impossible. I don't know you better. Do it before the address comes out, because I am worried that he'll never want to do anything again after this or a year's work rights badly. I know I told someone and wrestling that that's in the documentary the like that said that you guys did that better than I've ever seen. You laid out the question, so I ll just say this like. I don't know that its past they're making a movie about benefits can occur over that period of time. I don't actually know if it's possible to do a show, but we have talked a lot about. When I saw a documentary, I freaked out about their portion cause I've spent months. Thinking about this before then his dad's above to outdated? You re only made with this dialogue, bought it from his dad. We deal he made with his dad was like the deal the layaway deal, yellow. If you missed one payment, so Vince could paid his dad. The
full amount except one payment. If you, Mr One payment, his father were taken a whole company back here, and there when around and dealt with all these dogs and rolled up the whole country. And U S hinted it. And laid out away, but it shows you like this is made its character character of himself put by playing the character, but the guy was this ruthlessly brilliant business purse right and I I said to him when I sat with him. I said: hey, how did you? How did you know that you could do at your twenty four you're going up against all of these incredible? Incredibly tough by kind of gangster figures in each of these categories, the world? How did you know you could Beat them they were, you know, supposedly they were killers and they were whatever and he said well, it always tended towards aggression, the repeated I almost fell out of our chairs. It was just an amazing
and it was tough on four ask as the story was our driver, said this guy's gonna and die and knows he's gonna die at a certain age and is the biggest are in this. Version arresting and now the new version blows up and his by starting to break down. They needed for this. One last match see at that: EMU. That's gonna work, but then the beast- or he had to be the time, tourism arresting blew up, but it couldn't overpower the story. No, are you tell a story about this is about James, they turn or elsewhere. With the eight wonder the world tat, you need I've hundred pounds. Seventy aren't always has everything has to pay off with the ten minutes with rest, many three need all the back contacts Hence I really hard. I love that we had all the different names before they found a hundred a giant through so very low that they will make it a big deal. If someone finally figured out to call a magician was like seventy credit for that matter, the jail he called them the giant are really
You look at it. Obviously he's the giant but you're Fulla wrestling we're going wrestling helps you will, I think, but lane this guy being women like this dynamic that don't like wrestling and guys around like wrestling, and I was shocked by that. No it some it's like a really really was really glad to see it and the fact I mean you really feel a lot when you're watching it are you feel for him? but I love that you didn't. I mean you know way that when we made are thirty, four thirty enemy counters, the fifth best, thirty four, we ve all time style stone, but when we made that we were not afraid to show you that Jimmy could be an asshole, sometimes yes, which was the most and Does that we're we're gonna make this about a guy who's happy to decent asshole. Yet you know you guys honoured always been painted. Is the nice guy per rustling. That's the like image,
the outside than Andre cause. He was never he'll except in Japan and know that small Rendre guys cover. He was always a baby face, and he also because you know I see the pictures of him doing charitable things which he did. He seemed like only a force for good and like a great guy. But when you see in the thing that in fact it was a complicated human being took away too much that it was dark There are not even give way that I can reply. You just see, that is to say TAT, your guy and ad hoc, cocoa and ad hoc. I was scared of him was Connor's an hour we made it. Together. We fell. A tower was right, see the This is why these I loved you, I do and Andrea's the time was just the right time and. Thirty, four thirty it if it was an hour's, fifty two minutes and commercials and bizarre and offers it our seventeen and then, of course, provide twenty. But I've been a job. We did the cut of the kind of things
our selves whenever even showed you guys in the longer we wait, I'm retargeting about it. There we're does it gets postmen and this one's it because we would like had now scope was an asshole life. We will find at that and and obviously worked great because it is the same ass, ever best. I wish we had ten more Minnesota yeah, but I thought the way than ever. There are thirty. I was like. I was obsessed with like more than ever, gonna make the movie about Richard Jewel Oliver short schedule. That's now, every guy right, I was his name for me. That was an astonishing thing that was really get. I thought like battle, we watch the shorts alot it in. Knows funny about, then there a little before their time from what people streaming capabilities Werner if we handle really without, but we knew that anymore, where China pitch it and when they let us finally divine too and a big part. That was we
I want to do these shorts. We feel like we want to get in the space before the people do and the computers ipads iphones, like it wasn't, wasn't great that you spin video player was terrible, which is so straining his. You know the companies make it like a billion dollars. He always had a negative impact on our projects within twelve, my Ghana's just so fresh training of as I just you got. Some of this money just can you? Can you give us he placed on this way video player just stopping really billion season. Three stay away. That's great for marrying and show tat. This Sunday, the show entertainment weekly, cause devilish fun, new episodes, Sunday, ten o clock nine censure on Showtime. My lesters can get an extended thirty day. Free travel Showtime to catch up on the first two seasons of billions by entering could be ass. I get showtime dot com offer expires April, fiftieth, don't forget about super critter. Try. It adds up credit outcome, Slash BS, don't forget about
if you want to hear deep dive, a real, deep dive, like almost like an oil rig, deep dive of seasons wanted to. Go to the benchmark pack, ass and Mallory, and I the mother of dragons, three capital, Sunday night, I'm watching episode, one season three to date taping re capitals are there to morrow. Billions will end at eleven O Clock EAST Coast time, their pads gone right up awesome burn ones this when I read the someone's going up Friday way overnight tonight Friday before yea and before reason start people awake, on Friday morning. In the look, outside in these coasts, and it's gonna be twelve Jesus now and they're gonna, feel sad. And then they agree at this little there and its can be our part cast you David. John Hamburg. The great writer director you should have on he's great podcast he'd, be a great s, for you all have come to allay from EAST coast and never left
I dont understand area dire near. Can we talk about the next visits to say I can't Johnny? It's no you days for doing this. Upham pleasures eyes ways.
Transcript generated on 2020-06-08.