The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by Ryen Russillo to discuss The Match 2; encouraging rumors about the return of the NBA and possible playoff scenarios; ex-athlete commentator bias; Horace Grant's comments following ‘The Last Dance’; the spectrum of “forgivable athletes”; one of Bill’s favorite sports documentaries, ‘When We Were Kings’; and more!
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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that ran resellers coming up in a second first, our friends from project. I take this Sunday, five specific fill it. I just watch the match too was Tiger Peyton Manning against Tom Brady and fill medicine It was an excuse to actually watch live sports not knowing what might happen, I gave it a chance just cuz, I'm bored, I'm like a guy in the desert, who just seems like a saltine crackers like, oh, my god, that's a saltine cracker turned out to be a delicious saltine cracker. I really enjoyed it. I had a great time russillo,
did I enjoy it because I just be sports or because this is it actually exciting flood sporting event? Aren't you got? It was fun, but why would you go Salteena Desert, maybe like the last thing. I don't know what wish it I said. We then now. I think you need something. A little bit more texture visa bout pizza been the desert uber. Why would Salteena and salt, not an agitated, had an hour had I'll tell you. I've even drier. Here's assaulting. I just stuck by first drive like Tom Brady. Can you send me a text going like hey? I don't know if you're watching this or we were trying to come up with a plan for tonight spot, and I was like why you almost feel like skeptical of your own enjoyment of it. And then tat actually go hey. Let's do this when it's over! This is actually find some surprise that you seem to be surprised by it because, like I don't think we got what we wanted. We get some live sports in those guys rock and a cool. That's what I was gonna hoping for. I knew
dad I'll cut him. You know their personalities enough last twenty years, those four guys, but I do think it be funny if there was celebrity or in one of those things and after an hour just like. Oh, my God, the sky sucks he's like he's the worst due to have to play round with my whole nine or ten, the other guys just role in their eyes. Let it happen today would be funny if, like what Brady starts out ice called the first seven Hawes a features it out like. If that was me, I just went again soon moody and sulky, and notably the hay bill rough go in there. Are they buddy? I know I'm aware where its head determined, fuck, your piece of so I'm gonna go in order of the things I enjoyed. First of all, I went into the match thinking I was gonna rude fur for woods and paint manner, because Tom Brady Ditch by favorite team. I haven't like some of the things that are. Said and adjust the way it made me feel within one minute as back ambrady for life.
I know I'm in a river a month amputees this. If I'm ready for him in this stupid government, following a about way whenever the season starts so that that was, I must have been lying to myself. I can't rude against ambrady. I just can't I believe I even thought you were gonna try near. There was a guy like that, Did you date, eighty icon, that talk of them? If I run them and then you run in them, I can't go and supervise the grant for air is harder. It first while hard not to root for him and also hard for me just to refer paid Manning just in I was all the paths dna coming up, so that was fun. The the film Mickelson basically carrying for Brady and telling him what to do.
Different parts and chips and stuff I thought was easily the best part of this whole thing like. It was honestly like getting a golf lesson from this dude see this got to make sure just tap it. You want to push it and everything he was doing. I just I love that you two did you enjoy that you notice it yeah, it was great to I mean he just be sitting there and not being greater golf. This is most of us, but when you're with someone who's terrific to play with, you can point out stuff- and I always say this about the Impella examples. Not a great golfer people always expect me to amazing cuz he's at the golf channel and he's been on the golf be for such a long time when you go with him like. I was a completely different from the back nine. They just three little things. He had said to me something after tea, something, oh, my chips, something I'm putting. I think- and it was great so that part of it was was pretty cool. Mickelson was me, he's he's a talker he's gonna. Let there be no easy religion. I feel
around, but I've feel like all all the guys gonna get along, not that I expected that they work and get along just like that, but the they actually really seem to be having a really good time. With all thing, and I again I don't know that surprising. It just seemed genuine. While I agree that end, I also like that it started to get serious about six or left they do. You could see the competitiveness started kicking. It is probably even little. Lose for guys like Brady and Manning, come now the gate. They got the cameras there, they have the earpiece in it's raining their expected. I have personality and you can kind of tell whence it hit the point of the match where they could just go I want to win now. I'm it's! Ok! If I'm not like Mr Persson by these last six us that that part three everybody had it all subjects the Tiger Woods near the air? They was the sixteen thousand credible, meaning put it eighteen niches with from the big really there really data to cause Tiger hadn't even gone yet
I don't know if it got me thinking leg, you know obviously woods and make us in couldn't go on a football field, so you there's no way across compare. But I think when you have great athletes like that they're just good shit. You know, like Ivy League of Curry had been out. There no carries a better God for the Brady same thing, but there's something in in their genetic make up that. It's not just the support that they are the best at their set. There's more going on that Brady had sat here. The best moment, the match he holds those shot on the aid from like one fifty would ever was and he reacted like bird in the last answer. Reggie were mixed. The three that he's just like our core went in Anyone any of us are losing our minds and and jumping around
who in a jig like he was just immediately, goes to make fun of Charles Barkley eight there's something different about those guess. Those were my takeovers yeah. Whenever I've I've played golf with guys like women, Euro six handicap agreement, even though you call the gap in all the hockey guys. It will come back to remark dry summer and you ve, just playing with you go. Oh you guys are all automate this too We do not need your you'd add up the cards in a day. What you eighty one day like what and it just is just a different level. I thought it grants yeah does I thought the breathing really funny in that you knew he probably want to be more pissed, but he couldn't because other China to swear Gan its everybody's watching and staying any shaking them all over the place and that you're right Finally, as a great approach at ease, ass, Barkley, other medicine tastes, and he was just waiting
leading the entire time. Although I thought bark, we had one of the eminent NEWS Navigable guidelines, but I think he asked was a woman who egos that thing he said about your chest being through the whole way is unimportant. It enables like yes, actually. It is very important to have your chest follow through the shot and have that back. Shoulder continue to push for momentum and chucks like ok like some. It was going off when he said that this whole time tat every night seven by good air, to add that just in time as soon got a lot of praise all over the place, but he was really good too. It's it's crazy. How? If you dont, like twenty things, have to go right for these guys for this to be entertaining like private, they probably hit seventeen. The czech bark sedated hit the announcer Again, though, the fact that they had limited cameras there and they had to readjust after every hawk as a covert and everything like didn't, really feel.
Like a stripped down production and the golf cart so cool. I want that by the golf carts later cuz. I have a lot of thoughts in those, but, like the cameras, are the golf carts. The way the guys were interacting thought it was really good at is actually better than it should have been in that it does make me wonder whether they should do more of this with golf. Why does it just have to be gimmick batches? I love here in these debates. I dont know why they could just do another where these next week, that is the Ryder CUP have this? Why couldn't maybe here the Ryder CUP, guys just everything there saying where it will be the downside of fighting the cares, I think, is the players themselves don't wanna be might up. Joke is like that, round. If it was, it was so caught. Her today was saying: oh I I hope the NBA does this with NBA players. I've stopped.
We covered is like a year ago in this path? Yes, they're, not gonna, do not get a jerk and assign off now, like the coaches are even less likely to sign off than the players. Definitely the coaches, but I also think it can fundamental thing where it's the way you want more access will now like. I can already guess like what Michelle Roberts Quote would be. You know, like all you want, you want to hear them this this that I p, like I've seen them change in the shower you out there to. How far do we go to settle down? Here is my big Pepys, and this goes in general. This even goes when I play golf. I hate this that the whole Gimme thing gig, giving people the pots Sophia skins match. Rustic were yeah. I just feel like, if it's more than an hour to now fate, put it up, put put in a put, you put your second, the table just make it the
point of skins matches your it's. It's not crunch time and all these differ moments. They gave a couple putz today that we're like five feet. They are that's good as it gets. It was sure. That's good! That's that's like this. I it's longer put the bitter dink, which is I painted, if is longer than painted Anchorage put it good advice you dealt with. I know there are a couple of getting back one of those in the way it start
our two were Phil was, I forget, which announced are set on the first holes. Like I'm kind of surprise, there isn't a good good here where they just given it to each other, and they didn't so they put it out that First Hall and then was it filled. Actually after they put it out. I got that we're gonna get a good good. Then I could be forgetting whose order was on that. But that's what happened. The first or some people say just keep doing it and then, when somebody actually then has to make a pot, they haven't potted like last for five holes. Then you can grow up, but I don't like to the giving puts thing. I don't know that it's that it's that big of a deal- I just don't. I say you don't give anybody any pots when you play with no, I
If, if there's like a stake, if n, it's just that, I got that's a five words: it's good! It's in the general vicinity of what you might usually make cycle. Why we out here for not going to put this! I just never understood it. The filters, there's sportsmanship and then there's just like were actually were moving competition. If you know I like this, it's hard to make that for footer edgy bill, I'm into this we know it comes down to is the one time playing golf with my dad and he wouldn't give me a three footer. I missed a long putt for a third. Five on the cap. In the front nine oceans way, and then he wouldn't give me the three further and I missed it, and I got thirty seven. I went thirty seven the three of so mad at him, the back nine? I couldn't believe it and give it to be known that he should have given it to me. Glad I'm glad he was a dick he's like I can't he was like. I can't get that to you. That's four hundred and thirty six and I'm like
and then his. I guess what I didn't deserve a thirty six more things. I liked. TIGERS beard really came in nice. It's like a little bit of little night, HAWK sliced alone from that site. Member night OX sized Liability Williams has got the yellow glasses. I don't remember that the beard, our low low sized alone iraqi Rocky for COBRA Russia, know Russia, the eyes in a rose, the Beers Sars is lifting Bert Young His head, I do know Tiger, had kid had that kind of facial hair capability when I, when I didn't event with them in two thousand and six for whatever that You're with golf game was, and he said how He has his golfer. He would give the My facial hair and I was like- why does your guy have a goatee and it's like cuz? I can't growing and now fit. Fourteen years later, tigers got sly, Stallone's beer from Nighthawk, so I don't know
yet an odd thing. You lost me on that one not say I feel like I let you down bus, or I should say that you lost me. That I'm going to picture you a go. I'm going. You know that I was, I was worried, you wouldn't know, wouldn't that's dope. That's all I got a porno Serpico yeah yeah, that's exactly what it porno super with. That is one side. Some sort dresser! I wish I wish you could see the sword tighter attachment tigers by tigers. Whole vibe was great. He looked tat. He was an awesome shape. He say I should add at a ball. I put I got me forgot. I gotta take
I was a little surprise how much better Nicholson's calves were entire scabs? Did you notice that didn't notice devise been a calves guy? I always forget to look. I'm always look like arms way, step Yuri Dat. That's that's! What set you apart. You read The definition way. So do you think it s the right machines at his house just some guys. Yemen is genetic. Remember that I'm tv show or the cook a calf implants and like went out that night shown off his cast everyone like this summer's gonna rule freight look out and the entire tyre I thought were beggars Tiger? Was the big weightlifter I remembered some of those years or their target, to make that yeah. He was, he was bench pressing. Big big numbers yeah, that's what they were SAM, I'm imagine with a trainer and he's been up. A frame lose is lifting, but then lady, with the niece leave. And you're going. Oh, my god. What are you doing? Why would you give anybody this kind of like these, this
Tell on you even those already username report, his shoulder for a decade plus a pettiness soon as six somebody said some about it and then Belgic took em off of it. I remember that he had probable shoulder Brady for I think over decade, raves Zack eleven years. I was thinking how manning of hired writers to to write like if he was in a row the right for us to know you'd have like a comedy guys he can. I can. I had so many good Brady jokes, like I've, a cargo jokes and t jerks in while I'm in here the guy who's as more here, Then it is eight years ago in the key really could have could have been firing, and, I think Brady. I don't know what would happen, but it there was. This tonight was very gentle. The whole thing today they were very happy, but it they at least get one of a kind of milkshake joke out. He could. Said, suddenly I gave her a guys all about pliability. You swings little tight there well Brady,
add the Eli would have made that one joke than I thought was like it out a counted it Canada's Barb a visa, these circumstances Brady's our birdie was awesome and then I gotta say I absolutely love the golf carts I spent an hour going off cards on live, no idea. Why would even want one what I would do with that take their legal to drive in the street, but I was really like jealous of their golf cart. Down here. They have a minute beach. You can drive you can park and would like that with the fancy seeds, you can do whatever you want, make enigmas fancies. You want bill and I want one really bad. The first two or three months I lived here. I was like I'm just going to get a golf cart like I'm definitely going to be a golf cart. I think you should do this and then I even called and get a price on something and then that guy courses, I called him asking for a quote called me. A hundred times and
I ate past, like I don't see them with envy anymore, like it was understood when I moved out here. I was like I'm getting a golf cart, I'm going to do that and now I'm like, I said it's just a phase, be a bad move for me. Cuz, my son would probably skip the keys and God only knows what would happen if I don't go Tommy boy scene from Tommy Boy that I really enjoyed it. The raised a shitload of money for charity, which was great, and it was just a win all the way around and made me want to have sports come back to take quick break. Then we come back and talk about everything. The idea is for our sakes. We need to avoid crowds anyway. We can right now, but what if you need to go, the post office would have need postage send out letters and packages. Don't worry stamps dot com is here to help with stamps dot com. You can print postage on the bandits, get those lines across to the post office. Personally print. U dot S, postage official US postage. Twenty four slash, seven for any letter, any
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stay safe. My friends are an optimistic bill is here, is brimming with optimism, backtrack weeks for our active battle, super optimistic, that's a good stuff! Avenant! There's dates gone around, so were so we're tape this. Suddenly I dont think anything will get the side and until Tuesday, if you talk to anybody, that's sad to say that, but I think they fit the point that makes me happy where they actually have a plan or a semblance of a plan with end dates for things, because everything the Thai into when next season, would start to and then how far you go against football, and things like that. So here here's what I have heard and I am confident in they for information, but I think on Tuesday I could flip if something weird happens, but I think
is what they're looking at. I don't under. I don't know. What's gonna happen, training camps, the if they're gonna play more regular season games it, gonna be playing a game any that stuff. I think that spend the hardest part for than the figure out. I think what they have figured out tentatively is that the plants would start July, twenty fifth Saturday, that's what they're aiming for. I am not saying that to date, I'm saying that's what they have that's when they ve told the James. This would be an awesome date. What's let's look at this July? Twenty fifth, they want the last finals, data be September twentieth, which is a Sunday so thou be your game. Seven drop dead last day, the final date, so you remember like when they, when the final said that normally it usually like June eighteenth June nineteen June twentieth and then the fight
then the draft will be five six days after the drop dead, final stage of the game. Seventh, the latest it could pass bigger. Mba draft would be nine hundred and twenty four nine hundred and twenty five somewhere in there live within forty five days of the finals and then free agency October, first, with everything ramping back up, hopefully in time for that refer to open on Christmas day,
the ideal, how this place out scenario right now that their working off of doesn't mean it will happen. What do you think is the thought on because I know would not every facility being open here. It feels like this. The being pushed back a little bit tries to level the playing field in the fact that some of these facilities still are to be open and the resting. I am, I think the players are getting more ramp up time than I thought. Maybe they did they get the part. I can't figure out is what happens between MID June and that July, when you first date, which is kind of like when they would help the collapse would start if everything works out perfectly so do have regular, seizing it. I've heard five different things over the last few days. One of things was that the bottom three teams in each conference are GIS out their native in it oft tanning, then you hear everybody's about
then you here why play a couple games, but it will be normal plan. Then you hair I know it's can be applying game at eight. The recent hearing, all this stuff is, they haven't decided yet, but I thought the bottom three teams in each conference not being involved, and this again I don't have information on this other than just here in that. But I see now those three. That means you have basically the top twelve seeds and each conference so that allows to do some sort of planned thing, with seven eight, nine, ten, eleven twelve where you could have. Maybe a one game play off nine verse, twelve, ten verse. Eleven then the winner plays
the two winners by seven and eight. I don't know, but that that was the only way that made sense for me with the last three teams, but I do think there there they ve been batting around like a plan possibility because I think they know games. Wood would be watched, then. The other thing I heard was that the rosters might just be bigger, but they they might just have like how they would have in a training, camp roster and just kind of keep it at you know. Fifteen
when he people but just go, and that all away like that, so there's latticed I've got out there at the seven to twelve thing, though I dont know what the differences mean: cows, nineteen winds Lana destroy both twenties. That means the Knicks or in without my favorite part of the bottom three or out, but somehow the poor, necks after, like go in and try to get their shit together for the past, so big more sense to knock out the bottom for, but I haven't heard I am here and then you have Phoenix gosh you bringing San Antonio record this year about their set is San Antonio fourth, Western forthwith border. Third worst forth, their game ahead of us
there are win ahead to games ahead of Phoenix because at last come to light. So it's so. Let's play this out for a second and again I don't know if this is true, but let's say well, let's say it's even more large gonna knock out, though the bottom foreign each conference, so that would be next pistons hawks calves and spurs signs timber wolves warriors, I dont know: what would you do the rest seizing games and whether you have a couple you know gay couple. What basically warm up, aims that would count as regular sees a games, but if you had eleven teams in each conference. That would allow these due to do a little plan thing for the eighth. Did you know that? nine ten, eleven. Basically one team,
and emerge from this, and that of the eighty think. The question is what the prize, if you're the aid seed you either put the Lakers of the box like great you're, probably gonna lose that's, that's the part where it gets kind. Adobe. I think, if you put the last two seeds in each play off said stakes, Dat becomes more funding. As you would have. The nets in the magic are the seven eight seats in the east, but then in the west you have Dallas and right now, Memphis. So now you have LUCA would be involved in that whole thing, with the seven seed which I think gives it a different. Level credibility, that's why I'm hoping the seven seed might be available to be played for because then Lou, becomes involved. What are you hearing on length of series, you hear anything on Adams like pretty the main about best seven one in this to see my authentic not doing speed? Russia? I think I've thought their heels a lot of bad because very wary of people feeling like this was a fine
season or pseudo season. They wanted the same logic. Genuine any are also losing home court advantage because that be in these bubble thing. So it's like you have here the Lakers. Normally there, forty, nine and fourteen the boxer, though, that's better in them and have that hammer in a game. Seven, it staples is huge, fucking advantage and that's been removed. So I think to to get rid of home homeward advantage and the best the seven is a pretty big penalty for these.
Seems like the Lakers in the papers in the box. Who really are you now spent some time trying to earn their spot it at its best, the five neutral location leg? It's pretty tough, that that could mean anybody could be anybody you, I really wanted to be. The sixteen games are now. I can handle a best five first round. I don't think the first round should even be seven, but your people are already willing to kind of like pre diminish wherever this is in the way. I see it is if they give you have to go through and play that many games win. One thousand four hundred and eighty one sixteen games to win an NBA title, but yes, there was circumstances here, but I don't know, I'm not never made a rush of you like so many people want to diminish things all time, but we also know like a view. If Leubronn were the winner and you dont like, or rather you disable this one. Does it matters much and then, if you do love the brow,
you going to say you know what seats I just I'm, not I'm not ready to kind of do this thing. Where will that ring? That ring doesn't mean as much? It would definitely be the case if you're talkin, single elimination or stuff like that, but I I would want nothing to do with single elimination. I just wouldn't I would suck I mean. I know it would seem interesting, but I think we'd get results like. I think the cool thing about the basketball results is that the basketball results, as usually kind of that rewards the better teams and I'd be scared to death the sea where the single eliminate like it. If you want to talk about people diminishing being a single elimination champion would be like people would even want to make shirts see it's funny? I think if they do it this way, and it's best to seven, but it's a neutral location in the Lakers clippers or bucks, who are the three best teams. If one of those
seems prevail. I don't see how anyone could say: that's been diminished. If anything, they had a bigger balls. I because they didn't have on court the team, where would be diminished if it was like the Rockets? One is a succeed because it was a neutral location and any sort of playing on the road in a game. Seven haven't come through down three one and a game five on the road. Any that stuff is removed. The news in it basic the regular sees desert matters, matching teams against each other and theirs, fans any that stuff, so I would say for the Lakers Box and clippers to get, who that stolen the title. I would take that seriously, but I give Dallas one the title we Is it weird I you in the title but yeah
things, perfect, simple, it's harder! It's going to be harder! All you work for four hundred and sixty plus games have any games. It doesn't even matter because he has to have the seating but when he worries the lame data for certain teams were home court, I think really matters for them. You know like I think, for whatever reason, my aim is really getting home. These are the legal and home Philly somewhere around the bucks or twenty three it on. I think it matters for the Lakers. I think the attitude thing was an advantage for Deborah Ann Utica as well or com a city. Super loud every down three, two in your playing games, six in Oklahoma City, like that's a really hard game, the crowds crazy. But then you look at it. He might the clippers where any play series they're going have theirs. Scooby be five thousand two, eight thousand fans from the other team and they almost Canada.
And have a home court advantage. This neutral set up is weird thee. I dont send advantage but it's not like they're losing much by not having home plan games. I dont think like if they put the Lakers in the western finals, there'll be half later. And that every game in our Eu Ets would it be the traditional hunkered vanish. So it's gonna be weird. People were talking about pumped in crowd noise, all that stuff get your official take on that. I didn't think it was that bad on the soccer thing you know, but can I liked it if you're not really? Looking for in your hearing some channing, I think you should go with both things. They gotta love laugh track actually propose that we did a laugh track for the radio show an.
Are you like one rate events, the outbreak, slap, yeah, yeah yeah or, like somebody had his younger than you build or like a make out scene or something that I wanted to? I wanted to have those drop in appropriately throughout the radio, show just try all out but I know that everybody is anti it. It may look worse because in soccer stadium, so massive and you're not really in the crowd the shot into the crowd, is it really the shot field, is the shot and ran, and the backdrops like the backdrops are gonna be in the shop, is smaller, so smaller. So I, if know, if look just look weird, because you know no one's there, his was soccer. It feels like you know. It's like I'm not constantly, noticing that war there. What am I hotter takes is that I think but I think NBA noise is there's annoying as it is fine to hear the music Blair in the background for these in a stupid songs when somebody's on defence.
I don't know I would call the like of which sounded like a basketball game. Oda biggest set out rather have the sands game than anything else. I don't really good resource empty though it might sound weird, you know like an empty Jim. I think that's. The problem is gonna, sound, the echoing and there's gotta, be this dead, these absolute long dead silences, and that's probably, what they're afraid of the colored like it. Is that why we have an answers. The answers for the dead silences, you gotta guy, I'm going out restarting all the time now. Some guys you to talk all the time, but
look, it's gonna, be it's how you I'm anyway, you seem really hostile about this. What do you see? This is bothering you know, I'd I'd, I've kind of excited for the sounds. I hope we can all peer pressure. The NBA into following on their cinches be legs screw rather gimmicks. Just let us hear the deeds. That's gonna, be the big when everybody's gonna love here in the guys, just fucking. Do it even if yet one minute time delay or whatever, but that's how we win with this? If it means we get audio of the guy's, not directly, might job we're getting more of them out of the core, then I am all for it. But if I did just I'm telling you just gonna, be it's gonna be like going to a high school game that nobody that, like a bad highschool game or some weird summer league game and to us,
good I'm, not letting its problem Jago it. How available to spend two months in Orlando, I spent some time in Orlando. But if you get the car. The quarantine media list and there, like the innate. They ask us like this. Reseller wanna go just to do this from Orlando and go to the games get tested? Do the whole thing I would assume you're in right. Yeah would do that yeah, I'm a lot of three percent in I either. I know if I came back, my wife is, I'm probably getting serve divorce papers, but the currency Bubba, they won't be able to serve bank as nobody be allowed in So I won't even now kind of I don't. I don't know if I would turn it down where everyone will. This ever happen again. This is one of the crazy.
This will hopefully never. Why had me. This is with a view to the craziest things in the history of sports. They're gonna play the NBA paths in a neutral say in what is the world than Orlando, as is like, this will never But again I don't know Orlando this time a year to count me in. I know. I know you love Orlando July Celebration- view bent out of celebration now now that the add the fear of going against football with especially the files. I think is probably less of a fair cause. I don't know how realistic it is that the NFL season starts on time. If he viewless that Peat and Steve on fine coach. They are. Are PETE was talking about this? The bill Maria upset this week about how right now there
a dead even with where they are normally be in the hall for buses and psycho. You know like late May, but this is he said, starting this upcoming weak therein is our falling behind, but up until now is kind of match how I go for the most part other than that that people can be around each other, but starting this week is when this is now, you're falling behind with just everything- and I don't know- I don't know how realistic it is. It really cut the college football stuff starting to sound, not real. And are you acknowledge that I fear the college thing as a free for all and that's that you deal with when you deal with all their supper conferences, commissioners, athletic departments and not having one real voice, I mean you. Could we ve talked about this in the past? Should there be a commissioner college football. But I don't really know anybody would listen to and
You know you had with the big twelve say now were good and they d, like Texas TAT, was talking about enrollment going up because they said we're like not an hour, were ready to go. Annie the California schools like were not ready to go Alabama. I think weeks ago was like we're playing the aim is practising I I I don't know it's always a daisy thing were yes, you know the kids are paid the way they should be compensated. That's not really what the debate is here, but to have the kids go back at our being paid, but then it again at time like I bet you, ninety five percent of these kids may be higher wanna go back. They want to go back and play sports because I like doing it and if What college did right now? I'd rather be quarantine with my football team on a campus then than be at home, so a college football. It's it's hard to get a grasp. What what it is!
some of the schools that are just saying that we're just going to do what we want to do. Well, it depends on who you're going to have to know who's going to be there for you to play. How do you have college football? When nobody is allowed on the campus other than the football players that doesn't make sense to me how you have called for, but none of the other sports are allowed to play. Where are the title? Thine ramifications? There I mean it's where it confused. Try to forget the NBA. Their college sports thing is like a hundred times more confused because there is add silver, as you put it out. They have the commissioner there's nobody who could be like hey man. Let's do this, We got together, get all your your agendas, not try to figure out some common ground that it happened in college football, and then you have the answer come in. I don't see how works yeah I get, except that they need the money, so bad keep everything else afloat. Now I do
did the college football is gonna, have to look in the mirror here, a little bit because of the way they ve spent money. Now the money there, comes in with easy tv deals is beyond they would any of these schools are, they would make and yet to kind of prevent some of that trickling down to the players and what would be a ground breaking way in agenda not getting into like all the different options I have, but they ve spent attentively. I, whenever you study, college admissions or look at any of the tunisian prices, but we will. How could you wish and be this much more work? because the number of administrators, so it's ok, we have more money coming in. Ok, let's keep spending more money and allow S college football programmes have been spending, like drunken say, this year, and now it's like a way. We have all these bills do so we have to play football now. Gradually they want to play for positive, lose all them.
But equally we have strength. Coaches make an five grand a year. You have. You have lowered natures, Yasser oh yeah, Five hundred k year, you're not all of them, but look at the way College Football has spent on salaries on stamps. On upgrades on all of this stuff training judges, it is right just to make sure they can make it Look like you know, we're spending, that's the things they all your actually were, spending all this money, so we're not flush with cash or youtube, but you're you're, not flush of cash, because you ve you been on this, spend spree ever since his tv money went through the roof a few years ago. Ten years say you think it's can save about where just a couple conferences come back and that's it.
If the US is yet again to Morrow the beyond two thousand people say I'm shaking my head for the people can see me bouchet. Sometimes I forget and assume that the lesters can't see any of our fish reactions. Yeah. I point I greeted did every hundred hours. Buying Auburn, whoever yet and so for everybody, because I can't believe what my town is packed right now, like I came, appeared to tape- and I was like woe and whether you want to look on and enhance social media. You can see these these videos of people moral. They weaken I dont I know. There's some people have a hard time processing, there's no way there wouldn't be taxed dating jump. I'm saying if you could let that many people in and you are going to have some kind of guidelines you would pack a stadium. Just would it's just it just different down there in a few
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you wanna talk about Pierce, leaving the bride out of his top five and the biases of exploiting its other players. I think this is a fun topic. I think they're, like us, of media people, where, when media people get another media person successor, I digress terrible that is going to have it organised, if you think appear peer, says the thing with abroad that Perkins called about on since the two thousand to game, which I think was at the Mohican son Precision and they almost got a fight in the air and the tunnel after the game and there? It is that it was just a never liked each other. Ever since that kid you shut up in the south eggs and it became light, the crops in the blood for five years, where that they were just as much animosities, you could possibly have with two sides, culminating in the two thousand twelve thing, but then you, even here when I cagey my pack ass,
With Sandler and he was like its evil, we see these guys. Now I stood out like them. It still that that from our fuck with those guys. It's all right. It's hilarious, but Pierce, leaving the broth app and its tab. Five. When he's a BBC person that I dont care haven't you, the broad, how many things how spiteful you I'd get there's no version of a top five that he's not on at this point now. So part of me thought it was kind of funny that it's so clearly of India. Yeah. You know like that. There's a part of me that allows you like respect it. A little while ago you didn't care so much putting in fifth may have been funnier but pierce your right. The Lebron thing has been real for a long time, and what I always think is kind of funny that happens, especially when you get to work with so many these Isaac, Austin Rivers goes crazy and says that Dwayne Wade not being top fifteen is ridiculous. Seasick, if you didn't come.
She didn't play. I don't wanna, hear your opinions should be ranking anybody but go first. Dwayne weighed his peak, is a lot of guys peaks, but you can't you can't put fifteen like No there's, no Dwayne Wade he's a top fifteen player Lizzy. I I mean: do you agree Road map admired said that exist right. So that's a current player. Whose ripping everyone in the media and then I sit back. I register Think I go. These ex athletes now are more biased than any dude with a podcast The other certain writers are certain debate, guys in outlook. We know who they are, who just decided my my stick is going to be I'm just going to hate on this player the whole time and no matter what but four players that always do the
like all you never played you never played like you. Guys are out of control right now. I'm Perkins Perkins it a weird spot because he is piercing guy, but he obviously loves Leubronn to yeah. So to win this Jordan stuff was coming out of these last six weeks or where five weeks there is this kind of like Leubronn Protection society that was trying to like makes indifferent arguments were like look. You already admitted you think M J. Of all time. But now you gonna do all these other things and like park and those guys they don't like staff yeah whatever. That is those guys like staff, because maybe the under the wars like I stuff so like, I always feel like Perkins, Iran has, I, like staff, Leubronn doesn't like stuff either, but he also, I think, it's part being with the beer with the thunder.
But now he was doing the same in our making about trade young, but it was. I went at perk which I've met him. They were cool, but I was like look. How could you think did that trade young his first years is better than steps first year when you like, I'm not talk about the raw stats, but there are completely different. Setups, like the gaps, are totally different march acts and had a plan in the corner. You know and that's that's a real thing like don't look at just the right number, two: couple years of Trae, young and Steph curry. You can also look at the basketball situation and you're not doing that, and then I was like. Why am I even doing this like he just doesn't like Steph Curry, So why would I waste my time and it just always one of the six guys like you and I didn't play and just our whole business is having opinions and a little bit of the eye roll from certain segments that I'm, like you guys, are more out of control and bias that I think I can ever remember it. Maybe it's cuz. This generation of players is so sick of, seeing all the guys for the ninety say they suck every year.
On Anti gazettes. The other part about It's like that was going with the Red Durrant. When we did the parts with the rat, he would mention you mention that at least half of them how it actually hurt his feelings when Barkley in those guys would go out his generation used and understand it, because he was like our guys. All of us like look up to those guys like why are they disparaging ass her Felix, very lively, Barghouti it's the warriors. The whole run right I mean Barkley would like was Anti Houston and golden State and oclock like he was almost answer all those guys and then, if you go down the list of all those guys are play. The nineties you write like it just was
another nineties guy say how much we socks and maybe that's why some of these guys are little more protective of their generation. But it's it's different. It's not like that. Any video sports- and I think it's just a basketball thing and is not quite sure exactly what it is. It's funny I really try to avoid prayers until after I wrote my book and then in the two thousand tens, I wanna make an effort to talk to more people. This indifferent respect, these things like that and ended up really being a smart move for me, because I really kind of open my mind some staff and showed how narrow minded I was uncertain things or just their certain things that just athletes really care That I think you and I are just gonna miss and the thing over to over the last decade was how much respect the guys who played in even the exports had
Cobby. His out, I was, I went through the two thousand site, Kobe selfish she's. A bad teammate is Bob and yeah you inside us, but he won the first real shack. You want to know eight, like I had my whole case laid up, but then I remember my guy. Viewed Bird in Indiana, and it was like what web player would you want to play with and his eye. If I wanted to have fun, I play with the broad and info When I play with Kobe- and he just had so much respect for kobe- is that covers my favorite part of the leek and I'm like fuck, the the legend Hopefully the heavy to re, evaluate thing, but I just went through it. I had the other smoke eyes on my part on Thursday to cap, the Jack and barns, and we had a cobra Duncan thing in both of those guys were like if I had to take one guy, take cobia cat, the Jack one title with Duncan. He won the O. Three he's got a wrinkle Duncan during Dunkards APEC season, and he was just like, I think, corbies better leader, but you know you could pick some other things park is using Duncan, never had to leave
The EU is a part of it. I don't know if he could have done some stuff. Cobia challenge a guy's, Bacon, stubborn and thick, and I quote: Cobby had fell Jackson he's pretty good like that. That probably helped, but those they really felt strongly about it, and I do think I like, when they get site that when people like, I say one way and the guys are in there, they see some extra thing now. Neither of us could say you have a cobra thing is consistent and I caught a heap. I hate that I'm doing this now to go, but what's copies, what's his career parcels and give wrapped, I dunno I dont they. They went away in oh nine or two thousand ten. Without this are he was a top ten or eleven guy in the leg and perfect for that him and the perfect guy to play with Kirby there. So you know, I think those Laker team Siena by them was a problem, those first couple years for in a good way for them.
It was. It was a really big unconventional team. During the last stretch before the league started a change how they played in. When you go back and watch those games, they were pretty weak on the wing then here they had a reason. No nine and our test in today's ten really Fisher was involved in crunch times way more than I think you would have expected or thought such a voyage check stuff like that. But one another's things are pretty good, but with the guests, I, if you remove, guess all inches substitute, whoever. I think it's a problem but you know you could say the same thing with the south excited they went away without cagey. Not no doubt course not that they were not if it Phoenix pulls off Amari, and I think it was a marine Boris Theo or doubts our aim was it. A Marine Marian Irma India for Cagey is that was on the
Bona Eddie into the US seven or eight season, two yeah it happens. You need to get lucky. The problem with the Gazelle trade was just the date of the trade and the fact that nobody else an elite new is available. That was what people and national it. They trade in three ways for the deadline, and people did no, he is available and penal seems just about it seems, are furious about it, but I thought I'd member war games like is your boy and he meant Chris Wallace and at what, because he treated bow, because none of us knew using NATO and also why now people can do the hindsight deal on markets are becoming player. The he was there is. There is no there's no thought anybody in the moment with that trade, Yo Yo, Marcus holes? Like a nice prospect, it wasn't now turned into that eternity like a multiple times. Darn had a great career but
Look at what was the asset in two thousand eight when they made the trade and they write that an asset. Yes, all the thing The reason I bring that up in yeah, you're right, like garner, mean forget, it was even talk about it, but no one here saying Pierce is an all time: top five flare. This is what the conversations about Kobe, You start going like awaiting Dewey. Do we not put Kobe high enough or We look at those series where he lost a phoenix and game. Seven first try to get bounced back to back years by Phoenix in the first round. Here. That's that I dont think its close. Without getting Kobe, I just fag went Dunkards and your team, your guaranteed fifty five wines. As long as everybody else is a sea minus he she's gonna scare happened. You look at his track record and just how good he was, how consistently good he was and then the other three season, as the chair in the Sunday were It's really early Parker, like he's not even close to be impartial,
Its fish out of water manner, it's broken down Robinson Captain Jack, is weird. They like the second most important person than that and he rose through everybody and, as you know, I I dont remember Cobby, having anything like that. It's a really good argument, though it's it's funny, as we did a break out for it on Friday, He bore really passion about a God, one where the other, like people really feel it's one, those things people really feel strongly one where the other I just felt I give you have Duncan and your team. I know I'm in the plants everywhere and I know if I have a decent tee. My I'm in the final for and I've got to have the title Neches, just the fact that I don't think you could necessarily say that with Cobby with how his career, Canada shifted gears a couple times their lady, he had some even o three before the tree while he was very strange that year like he was playing great, but they had a lot of trouble reaching
me was it I feel Jackson's written about this. Multiple books like it was a lie hi evolution for him to get to where he got to know eight hundred and nine as a teammate. I think that stuff gets thrown out. I just wonder if it's the position, it's his style and like the perimeter, guys like I like Kobe, supposed to be cooler, basketball player than Duncan. Is it as simple as that? Why other players would would go for that? You know when we thought about Cody has a difficulty may be was difficult when the team stunk help in the team was a very good you're right, I'm I'm not doing like when it whenever I say that about we'll be, though, like whenever I bring up exalting. That's, not diminishing all the
people that have added other players. Nobody does this by themselves in this late. You just don't you can't does not a solo act. You got to have other really good players and he had this year as you're saying is pivot. It looked as if like wait, a minute to end up being like a first round exit here and we're talk about him is the best part of the leek. You know if he is. That is that is that, truly what it is and the Phoenix Series to in a game seven where he just kind of like em over this who just Yankee reared Game, is where it was a great he's got some tough finds that offer files is really bad he's just terrible that serious and in part of it, is because that Detroit team was the best possible tend to go against them and their lack of chemistry stuff goes on to say, but yeah you know it happens. I think that's what What makes you know the Jordan thing that Jordan Run, that he had really the Orlando was the only hiccup in you look at all.
Other great guys. They odd hiccups. I gave my guy bird, you know they get swept by the box and eighty three they lost it. Seven at home and eighty two and eighty five, he heard a sand in the bar fight and probably caused in the title and he's got hiccups like anybody else, and You look at your that's just like it's kind of unassailable with, except for the baseball part, know that to me that, as even count grace, he didn't play any pick a basketball and then comes back and plays in the NBA. It's pretty debts quickly on the brain? We you and me in house had been, shall give her a wild. What the bride was could be capable of when the M J Dac ended, and there is a blank landscape again so he went on the uninterrupted pack has claimed that during two thousand lemons lack out, he thought about playing football and there is a shared Jones contract. There's all thing
I never remember the lock out into those eleven getting to the point where guys were making alternative career path and fear. Thing is we didn't know whether we're going to have a season or not until the end of December, which football was over by that point, so I guess it means he would have been pushing for the year after, but it was such a weird song. And people running over there you go abroad must pay for the cowboys this. What's going on, we held the cigar bites, the bride was playing football. That's it was never happening where what is ever talk about That's why this stuff is kind of funny right now not to this is new, but it's ok, Pierce I've, Cobia Office, Thurii, Leffler Braun of his top five, ok segment, right When we gathered round my cab come out right, Leubronn, a tolerable coats are those of the bees. Great abroad have been the best for popular ever. That's next. So yeah, he had that he had a work.
Video he had like for stories this week the entire Robin downfall. You did you tracked him nice, it was it ass. He is producing a new Adam Sandler movie, cod hustle. That looks good data that that was said. The great this code, new apple series about, I guess, athletes talking about what makes them great doesn't sound like an informer survival and then new, Nike commercial, never too far down had that when as well that got that guy. That was actually get commercial, but it was clear leg. He caught up, laid low for five weeks. Yeah yeah. I led a rather as a very smart strategies like fat guy. This MJ fabs. Let this go then this week doubts I come back. Never mention in the everyday luck for ten parts, not once not and that even shown, Nothin goose egg did it
doubt an interview request. I dont think that request was made. I think a lot of scores were settled there back and we I'd been anxious to talk to you. I once had by the source, granting both take one hour break avian more certain than stream in these is HBO Max as a new streaming performer of HBO meets the greatest collection of movies and shows see at all. Speakers, series movies together a time as classics laughing. Warner Brothers, librarian lad. Other places was revised. The Lord of the rings energy and so on, your beloved tv, some oh geez, like friends, Big theory written Morty South Park. You get superheroes Superveillance from DC like just to see one woman suicides glad yet family favorites Sesame Street Loony teen Scooby do and yet new MAX originals for everyone. All your favorites on one place forges Fort teen. Ninety nine per month I was
sorry about this- I assure you have it. I don't want to wait till made twenty seventh. I got it already. One Tipp, if you him forward on the apple app. You got it HBO now, so do it that way or you just go to HBO Max Dot, to learn war- but this is, I think- that by two thousand movies, my son a month ago was like what's he found out South Park. Recommend you were there is we're getting this, so I have it our poor back next week very excited at it is happening. It streams made twenty Again, visit HBO Max Dotcom to learn more ok, Sawhorse Grant, who I knew was gonna snap as wait for it. He
who is the most glossed over guy in this whole documentary is the third best guy in the first three teams, Rodman probably got twelve times as much shine in the stock is Horus did then was accused to be, snatch, which current people I've talked to me that it has been the rumour that he was the same Smith's snatch, but I think the prevailing feeling is it debts, really unfair to call Horace the quote: unquote snatch when the early Ninetys SAM Psmith could talk to anybody, keeps we just easy for a reporters, get information back then so hoarse finally stabbed said a whole bunch of stuff about at the key phallic. His manhood was challenged a little bit in the dock. This store in there the story about MJ, wouldn't let him beat on the airplane and stuff like that, and it just kind of went off, and I was here for it I enjoyed it. I was waiting for him to do it and-
I think he was criminal, Indurated Kazi, especially look at that ninety one series and pet that anyone pissing was still a big fiscal team and its base will occur this was the guy who really did come come through in. That is a lot of different ways any dead and they won three straight titles. They won three neuro, which other then at that point other than the rest, Celtics and Migrants Minnesota team. Nobody done an I don't know why I felt bad for the way he was treated in the dark just because it was clear. Jordan has disdain form, yet there were. It was like a forty eight hour when newer and felt like it had started happening after the dock was over where people were kind of like. Are you going
our aid up all the stuff and you go wait a minute if there's gonna be anybody that has this ten part deal about him where we're all kind of like man, this guy was insane. It's gotta be M J because it ok to be fawning over Michael Jordan. I think it is but yeah you knew like. I don't watch the whole thing going. Ok, everything is true rang out every comment on hours, I'll check out hundred percent accurate, like we get it and guess what they there's another were version of. This were people wanted to be this unauthorized, biography, Lego, where's, his ex wife, What does exploits aggravated his exploits not could be in it he's got a sign off on all the stuff like that
also go research that relationship and yo understand? Why she's that in it amended its it's that fuckin chess here so that I have risen? And so when you sit there and in like rule ok yeah are, it is probably a couple guys lying about history that I mean that happens in anything right, but it doesn't mean because we love the dock and it was reinforcing of M J greatness. Did I feel like I'm, some rube yeah? It seemed a little generational too. The people from the Hague her out, hagiography thing around and say I was totally Hager, there's been way worse. Yet that's my inaccurately infomercial demography is worthy honest reactors, one that should be allowed as this guy. So one thing I was thinking about that we didn't talk about during the five parts we talked about, the stack it's over and over again is so competitive.
But nobody's work. Petted this guy, this guy needed to win in anything, is all he's. Vat is winning. How did you gonna be in such a bad owner? Think if we retain the epilogue and it was likely to our unauthorized dark? That Lastly, it is over. We don't need your footage anywhere. Now we're going to do the last twenty years like what the fuck happened had. Is this guy become such a bad owner Charlotte's, a bottom five organization in the league and has been I dont know what went? What are we did it? We did our team with egg when we die, rankings of teams- you wouldn't want to be the GM, for there was an automatic. Oh there's, one there's the top five. So why has now competitiveness manifested itself at all and any sort of success owning a team? Even when you play baseball, they had
and whole power and they're talking about you know man that guys in the cage in the morning they do come for the games in a cage. And then the game that, after the game, is back in the cage, hardest work. I've ever seen in my life so that the case has an owner. I don't get it. Ok could be as simple as luck really that's a pretty seems together you get lucky but no one's ever going there. That was one of my favorite ones, like others, somebody's players, worship, Jordan, Jordan, sneakers, but gather probably sign. Therefore less as a free agent. Is they weren't sneakers that red I'll, be up and by people who are worried about that. As I got my favorite things like when Jesse was part of the nets, Billy Leubronn he's black like eyes like RAP Jesse, so wrapper throws out, there is forbidden to go. The nets has a rap music music. What cheesy zero point: zero zero three percent of the nets that guy's gonna get
very thorough, going there right. So we do the same thing with M J before to the roster I'd said, I still can't believe how I'll get a job coregos done in that group because going a year on like this is the least interesting roster of any timidly, but maybe it's competitive when it's him. Maybe it's it's some detached thing worse, since he doesn't. It can't really change the outcome of anything like everybody still has to spend the same amount of money for the most part. I don't I don't know I'm. It is just as bad as like. He sees Bradley. Be only sees kid Gilchrist. Anything, one guys, but in the other, which seems impossible that you could be maybe the greatest ever to do it and you can't see, the difference in somebody's like our you just that bad or is he so hands off? That was foreign office? Lets him down
I don't know man I mean that one's that was really hard to figure out. My guess would be it's just the fact that he can't actually go and do anything to execute any kind of result is why being an owner is different than being a player. Is that make any sense? I'm looking at my list of the greatest hits of all time so Russell who coached Seattle in the 70s by all accounts, bad coach, Lenny, Wilkens, came in within two years. Russ Lenny Wilkens won a title with Russell steam. Then he famously went to Sacramento. I think in the eight thousand, six hundred and eighty seven ranch and was just a train right there, and then they find the bottom out Korean, never coached or did was a gym, magic, terrible, coach, Turbo, GM, sorry, Larry Bird good coach,
decent GM, probably one of the only ones that are dead dead, but this one, Jerry West, Great GM, a great job asker, her came Shaquille Moses, have a check, Elgin Beller in my top twenty one of the worst. She observer Julie, serving never did it bob petty crime alone, Kevin Gerda, Charles Barquey Cosy bad coach in Cincinnati, repairing nobody ever what a lot of coach will afraid. Bad coach Dave counts, decent, Ouch kept Mikhail Awful GM great Guy, really really in atrocious Jia. Really bad like one of the worst year. Absurdity.
As in scrape either so they remember. I e whether I am rather sad. Yet this is over ten years ago, but I think Forbes sports did in article where this is writer. He based we came up with this formula of trying to figure out who is the best GM and the article. The conclusion was, it was Kevin Mikhail. Oh god, TAT word. No, I mean I, I went I d absolutely rip through thing and they were psychologists have mine so Isaac. How did the? How did this happen like dessert, a part of your study where you go Kay, and the answer is Kevin. Mikhail case made my formula sucks eight. Ah, he does not know because if you do this if you look at how many wins before and how many winds after you always run through so formula. I got me so just just. Why have you clear here? If you had a team and you can hire you? on the team and you get higher energy em in the game. Mikhail beer first call, and it was a yes there's guy stuff
He was that anyone's first car after left Minnesota. So then, websites out was another, it is a bad gm and gave the busher who is now no longer with us, but so that I just listed how many guys, like sixteen seventeen at the top, fifty five guys ever in only two of them were good gems. Maybe maybe great power should be good jobs. I remember a kid member who I talk to about this was: long time ago. Somebody gave me the theory about what one of the reasons why they make forbad bad, because they're so good, they're saying this about Mikhail, because member Mikhail had taken chances would like
in a kind of shaky chemistry, guys like Latro, and try Hudson and people that mark blood. My goal, though, candy like over an area which is get these guys, is it. Why does he keep doing this in? Somebody is because he was a really good prayer in really good players. Their attitude is well fees on my team will make a work, but there the problem. Is there not playing anymore they're, not on the team in a network that were the case falls apart? It's like you, can't put those guys unless you have, though, the peruse where they give the Minnesota case dad KGB, but were never able to have figured out so anyway, great personal thing about this thing about this bullet. Why would change being a role player, make them be a better GM feel. Like I've heard, I've heard the coaching part of it gives you your great player and you were surrounded by all these guys that aren't as talented as you were. Then it's like. Oh, how come you
I'll go. Do this thing in your light, while I can't do that they only you could do that. So I can't do it so the coach one makes way more sense, but ass the ability to look at players and say this guy works. This guy doesn't and to get it wrong that often that that's pretty Craig. I don't know I just don't know. Is it just the result that we have a there's, no real correlation between it, Yes, I had a big enough sample says: yeah is Ange Ain't scored more, he be worse, it selecting players. That seems crazy, Steve. Her said something interesting: what's he was talking about one of the reasons he thinks he was well equipped to be a coach at the key talked about this recently on fire,
Should care about. You have a more innate sense of your your badge and every guy in the team, because you ve been indifferent positions on that t right, sometimes like steep cars careers. Really. The perfect case study for the sea basically was himself under the league. Bounces round ends up in Cleveland, he's mark prices, backup. Finally, I get the footing and then ends up on the balls and he's there for eight years goes to. The spurs basically Louis is that they gave him this big contract and he's just not playing to do a trade with Portland. I think for Derek Anderson, just a dump his. Thousand the jail blazers four year, not plan and back and the spurs through, not playing, and he was like that perspective like being an essential guy for a couple years, but then also being a non essential guy makes you think about the whole concept of the team differently about staying connected with each guy and
it's a big thing for him and having pop of its to Jackson, is another one fit having fifteen guys in Eurostat, but having a relationship with each guy and making sure you're connected to them, whether they're playing or not. I'm not sure how Michael Jordan, if he coach even noted. Do that you now he would. He would approach it as we get. We need more doggedness are cobia hook, copied Bene coach anymore dog at our team. You guys got a step out. We'd, get tat for he wouldn't be thinking about how to I have relations with each guy because they never had to think that way. Now you have, you can't be the same guy with every guy. That's the laughing! You learn about culture. And I don't like using M j- would be you're really hard on this kind and soften cuddly with the euro that it just got here and his young and does it quite understand,
Eric and all a kind of stuff right now he he wouldn't you dont, when you're great in the focus is on you, your whole life. You probably don't do a great job being compassion. Other people's feelings? You know when you're one of those absolute one per cent of the elite of the elites like you're gonna, be narcissistic. You're gonna be selfish. You probably gonna sing for every but I dont know how you go from like you're the focus of everyone else and your kind of being observed
How do you transition later on a mindset where you can you can go, and I need to start thinking about all these other people's feelings around me. I would think that the impossible we're gonna do that. Forgive us really quick cause lit the Lance Armstrong Thing Premier tonight on espionage, which I had not seen so you haven't seen it have that's in three categories for forget: Bilbil, Caesar athlete, Sapper trade us in some way or made us angry or goddess of them or rages. I thought that guy about and then you can either you're just permanently out. You end up in a place,
like sort of out, but not not, is out as you initially were, and then the last category would be a back it. I forgive them and I think that category specifically you're looking at a rod, Re Louis Tiger Woods who die in tigers the flimsiest of the three out of those but all three of those guys. If you'd said, there's going to be Sunday or down the road everybody's going to like these guys again, you like it stuck out here what a ride like him again, for whatever reason he became a forgivable. Why are some people forgiving? Others aren't? We are pretty forgiving right. I think in general, people want to forgive as much as the Publican
Highlawn and tear you down. They love then going hate. You know on the couch imma give you a hug going out for a whole deal when you put together this list, a couple jumped out at me like a rod. I may not love, but the PD stuff doesn't really ever bother me it doesn't it just it's not something that I would sit there and tell Cameron just like this person for the rest of their lives, because they took steroids and play a sport doesn't the railways thing? That's a pretty remarkable turnaround. Provocateur leaves out one alone. Will that's good, I jest, because it's still really no. I mean, I know what we all read and all that kind of stuff, and you know alright PETE roses a great one cuz, I'm always surprised how forgiving one is the peat rose in a lotta has to do with him being the answer but ceiling but PETE, I dont believe anything. He said, never, never this whole time and then, when you want to see
a book, that's when he decided it. Okay, hey everybody. I did gamble like I feel like PETE thinks he's playing the public and that to me is more offensive than somebody just taking steroids. You know PETE's problem. I think I think it could have happened for him that you think about Michael Vero. I forgot to put Michael Vick on there one who came back he's. It he's a full forgivable. Well, one of the reasons that is a full depends on yeah depends on what you pet situation is now there's a minimal people are never gonna forget back yeah, that's true, but at the I feel like he's back for the most part like he's on tv again is higher ball. Stuff like that, but but he did an unbelievable apology, tour and really put time effort and energy. And you know months and months and months into. Atoning for lack of a better word. No doubt growth p roses bed, the opposite he's just like
he's honestly like gotta like the Tiger King Doc or something, and I think he was always like that even the seventies he's, like basically Joe exotic with forty three hundred heads and ahead and he's just so unlike a ball and so Stevie that there's no overcoming it. So I had to the list of people who are just at the unforgivable still OJ, leading the way you're, not a tougher one, eyed raker outta. Here but I mean you know, it's like he was a famous person so I think it's a good example of. Like that's that's line three race. I don't I don't know where things stand with them. I know he's tried to do some good staff in and try to be an example and done a lot of talking indifferent things, but I dont know like give people have forgiven him or not should I put him in the sort of bonds? Is somebody like in the Bay area? They have completely forget
he's a hero again, they never really bad air and everybody's out yeah he's he's dead. Leaving the barrier right. Nobody. I. I owe you never have. As you know, we were always in no, no, no! No! No! I I wouldn't. I wouldn't say that eurobonds bonds saw thing was: oh you guys, like Maguire like you'd, like what he's doing wait, wait till I get started and it was fun I caught up in it. I loved watching at home, run chase. I mean this stuff he was doing was absurd.
And nobody liked him except for is for home fan base. It was really weird they can you not I'd like that, something, that's a lesson. I've taken with myself the wrestling whenever we're talking about stuff. Just never forget entire fan base didn't care because he was thereby increasing home rots and that's never one like that would never be one arrives like all this one really bothers me. I think Clemens probably bother me a little bit. More than bonds did, but then Clemens, unlike whatever that means that lets stuff it wasn't that land used, because if I'm lance, I'm like hey, you guys can fuck off every single guy. In my sport uses: ok, yeah, that's what the sport is. Everybody has to use the power would Lance was that he went so on the offensive. Calling the doktor. Who is the misuse of drunken whore? And you know I mean he went scorched earth on people. When he knew his cheating when he knew he was cheating. So it was like hey if you're going to cheat and do the thing you know.
Maybe you can do the Mcguire words like I'm not here to talk about the past or something you do. The thing where it's like look but his play was I'm going to be so ruthless that I'm going to try to you and then people were losing their minds like all you know. Why would he ever take any steroids? He was sick and I go for that would be a reason you would take him first of all he was so nasty about it. He did sit down with Eureka recently into who did a really good job with em, where I got I'm out: Garcia entered the now yes out ambulance but like when he posted his is total France Jerseys in the basement, because as a flat
to everybody? I get it man. You are you're awesome, but you also treated people like shit, but you are really like at least some of the baseball steer Roy guys. This is the guy you you lied. Reporters of you who cares Armstrong was was like ruthless about it. Man I I can't stand. I'm sure I even turned down chances a couple years ago, more than once to have him on this package of zero affected I am out, they'll kill. He was so nasty to so many people here and then, as you say, hey man, my dad yeah there are about all that guy's sick fuck. That guy about her way is that is that for you, because that won the guide of of the modern era that you have the hardest time, with
Now it is your most unforgivable yea may be. I really thought he was just such a liar, and such a hypocrite is really animal and so nasty to so many people like couldn't get couldn't get past. Clemens is another one that has cottages low for a while, and it's just hoping pressure of time. People forget, because there is some there's some buzz last year About- should Clemens being the red, Sox or fame if he gets in the real HA affair and it's a really- we do that now in a letter written about Roger Clemens Day in Boston with we ve, come full circle with all his, forgive in fact that guy
I later now was I let him anywhere I like having sir some fucked that guy's, because until hasn't twenty you're not allowed to feel that they are manages it so bad, it's so much hate out there and he can't hate prayers and it's like, while sometimes it's kind of fun to have somebody don't like. I don't know it's there. It's like the whole point of sports, as you sports hate certain people right. I don't really hate Clemens out on hope that something bad happened so, but I really love Rudy gets them after he left the red. Sox. I don't think he understood a lot of the reasons why people in Boston felt betrayed by him, especially when he got an awesome shape in Toronto. The next year that was bullshit. And I added I like having I like having this stupid. Absurd grudge against climate silent, would allow its funds have absurd sports grudges this that real. This is a real life yeah. I like that. I know I like that. You admit it and I think it a good school. I mean I used to have a long, long list,
when I was younger but yeah get older, you get older and you know if you don't feel, look at things the same way, but the Clements one yeah. That sucks shows his abs off in ninety seven but these out illegal wait? What will happen here and if you do get you going, I'm get made fun of this whole time for let them go. Any added have taken stuff, and I mean so. Those numbers you put up in Houston are so Phil the just filthy, Maguire I'd, really have a hard time with. I don't care enough in a rough YO, Palmyra care We were in the hall of Inward, wouldn't do apart guessing or the wrong thing, but yeah lances leads to me in a different category than than any the baseball guys, because the way behaved. I think one of the things that's funny and I've got the baseball steroids guys should be in the form of art and the record that I think it's a shame that people think there staring heiress started during a certain time. When
the? U have evidence that it might have been around in the seventies. Pretty significant evidence of the same kind of weird home run, swings and stuff like that. Eyes having clear years sitting: fifteen twenty, more homers and never have. We got back and read the stories from back then its there's a lot of like nautilus, stuff sake. I work that worked at a nautilus. All winter now is really at some pop and his bad. But then it's like well, I will steroids, was ever ass. It was in football, it was in the track and field the Russians. In the german side, we thought we didn't have steroids in the seven.
So from people seem to think a kind of showed up with big word so said. I never understood that yet by the way, those guys are eighties anyway, there eighties and then muslim eulogiums dig it up a little bit later on, maybe just because all of a sudden, you had second based and went to her twenty pounds now hit home runs. I it was. The Brady Anderson was when people were like fuck this year, the winning it in ninety six when he had the fifty homers. That was when it started when we're thy wait, a second what's Goin on come on at, but at the same time their baseball took off there in that area too.
Our end as air out their forget sit there. The Homeward Derby Fenway ninety died and it was like watching Superboss go out of the park and we all love that we deal was totally and open up. The other important thing is wasn't necessarily cheating back. Then. It was kind of like a gentleman's code for out of this stuff. It wasn't like Maguire taken creating and others suffer, wasn't necessarily against the rules, but by anything I ever read well yeah, just a legal whose a legal right to buy them Yeah you can have a legal steroids, I don't know I mean I'm sure, there's a version of it. You can do with the doktor or something but give it legally prescribed, whatever were taken a break and never come back
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maybe federal credit union. Our members are the mission I last segment. We wanted to end each podcast with awe with something fun, something a little gone backwards. Reselling I had talked a lot about when we were kings at their one of the pods. Before I think it's, I still think it's the best sports act manner of all time, if the. If, if the category is just a start to finish what sitting sports documentary. I stoning it's the best one and it came out in an aid to ninety six it took Leah aghast over twenty years to make. One, the Academy award which which I was surprised that I did the research. I had forgotten that part of it and it comes out- and this really strange time for sports documentaries when sports documentaries weren't really that it wasn't even conceived as a.
Yet cause yet hoop dreams in the ninety three. Ninety four range: you had ESPN Sport century series that comes out. Ninety nine HBO really starts making sports documentaries midnight these range yet Bud Greenspan's olympic. Document over there. I could have done the same way, a little slow, methodical and then there came out. And it's all the footage of form in an alley. Zyaire which is a whole crazy start to begin with, because they're about to have the fight for me gets caught and everybody's just kind of stuck there for an extra month and a half, and this documentary is incredible. I mean honestly that release it now, and I don't feel like it stated at all I mean maybe have a couple born of yours is a
Norman mailers, Lotta George put them, but other than that it is so good its. It has so many great moments and its honestly, like a sports movie, it doesn't even feel like nonfiction. I am just blown away by it, if you have a chance to see it, I'd recommend at what are your eye when we workings thoughts. The James Brown at it They use music in the stock is unbelievable because it's not just the fight. Is this three day music festival but they're gonna have and James Brown Sober brother number one. His look in this is out of control. Amazing, just as I seek pig case play, it is like he's, come out of the sixties thing and now he's just like seventies and when they do doing to death and they added it with the training of Ali. I've said this before, but it gets me so fired up every time I watch it. My gentleman is like through,
Roof is like a shot of of testosterone or something for ages. It I get so pumped up the mess you want to do something because the way they added it- and it's just perfect as a perfect use of this music, the score song and early in the whole thing and I'm glad you brought up forming getting caught. Can you imagine having this fight that up and then ok, we're just gonna hang out here in Zaire for another six weeks, like everybody schedules that, whatever you are doing, the report as it were there, I'm soothing another forest and stay also some did I imagine Norman mailer. This is a real Dionne waiters work for him in this area. Big time that is one of the key things about this fight. Is it's the height of this. Just great magazine feature writing era. Yes, the height of sports, illustrated this is the height of some magazine, sending George
point in our, however desire air and the fight getting postpone them. A George just stay send us the experts report when you're done like this is what the seventies were, and this was writers actually get in a paying out with athletes and be around them, the biggest that it's in the world. Are these guys revered? I lay in about Ali and really contributed to its, not a myth. That was the reality, but just though the persona that we got to know in the seventies cause they all fuckin loved them because they got to be around him, and so now you're in Africa and they're just ever, when just around each other fer, you know months on end and then I'll. These gone through this whole spiritual thing being in Africa clicking with the people in this crazy way in its also honestly, its Ali stealth. Still with about ninety nine percent of his
I was left you know like it. If you look at the interviews, he's he's still really fluid he's really eloquent. It's it's it's this fight and I think the phrase fight and then the shavers fight an he s just different by the time it is the first second Spinks Fights and seventy eight you speech his speeches slurred. He has been hit many times, but he stole he's. The throne is fastball in this and that's other than the music and the way it evidence that fight that just to see Ali like this like there, never to be another Ali documentary like this? Is it If you want an eyelid act, may just wax s nobody's ever beating this I'd say it's hard obviously has a bit was a year before I was born, but everybody thought he's gonna get crushed, everyone thought is gonna, get crush this fight. Howard Cosette basically does a eulogy in a eulogy form innocent ones,
and then that's also. I like a cells role in this thing. Like he's this opinion guy, but also was hurt like he was one of the rare opinion people But he would just do it. It was almost like it wasn't a story until he had given his two cents in the whole thing and the plan in trying to say that Ali was scared of em and then I'll leave. The whole time is like eminent. You know that motel I'm telling you I'm Tellin, you and your like to see, really believe this, or is he trying to convince himself in the lead up the whole time? Now? I'm sure Ali wasn't afraid of anybody, but I've he's, had a hard time going. Did he know? Did he know this? Like did he know? Okay, this whole time in the way he let himself get beat to hell by sparring partners there, like the he wasn't very good in his sparring sessions, and he did it purposes in this fight he wanted guys to hit him in a body hit him in the body more more build up that tolerance to it. Knowing that this is the only and people take out foreman and, as I say,
like going through and hyper himself up. I'm always looking for is: is there a part of this, though? Where He actually doesn't think he's gonna win. This fight is, he busy, can and that in a form and really is this guy is forming, beats Frazier to a pulp. I mean he's heap. He hits Frazier so hard in one of those fights at thinking, oxenden seven times they treasures out on his feet and then falls down, unlike comes to because he fell down and he also killed. Kanner new is the other guy who Ali and had some trouble
They do a good job in the documentary after the first round when they show Ali sitting on the stall and one of the riders saying how you could see real doubt in his eyes. For the first time, like holy shit, I wasn't ready for this result has been a great debate about how much of the whole rope it up thing was audible odds after the first round when he got to feel just how strong foreman was and how much of it was when I had attended the cornered it now, because the coroner was going nuts like what are you doing, you're going to get killed, but he just said he just saw something, but it goes back to like what we talked about last week with Jordan like when you talk about, like the the true true, true grace, and the same thing with Jordan. Where that the whole series easiest way
for whatever moment it is to not go around under the basket in a double back and still the ball from alone. Like all ages, he sets something. You know I don't even know how you would explain it or pass it on to other people like something about the punches is taken from forming, and you realize that some point I think I can weather this for a few rounds. I think he's going to get tired and it's some point of hitting him with a right and that just becomes to dance for seven rounds and he pulls it off and nobody shouldn't be in foreign like for my goes into a deep depression for two years after this the EU is like this: is Thyssen Douglas multiplied by a million you know eaves actually in shape? He had no excuses, he was there. And is disabled. It hit the shit
about Lee and alleys not going down and he's like. What's going on, I cant figure this out. Who am I this leads to the place the classic are forming laugh. I E Rights Alan right couple years later, I think I have watched them. That's the greatest fighter negative. It's our have assurances its number to be on our guard, Yes, you have her sweet, but I'll watch or watch format tonight, baby. It's just inconceivable. Anybody be form it did. You read house, book IRA. I've read every Ali thing ever right. Thousands, my favorite You have one. Do you like more than Hauser, I really thought ghosts of mail. I was even though that's a little entirely. I was on a flight first class no big deal and this guy stands up and, unlike oh my god, it's Thomas Eyes, Hauser
and I go hey just want to let you know when he was Ryen Russillo ESPN I was like okay doesn't know who I am a problem with a guy, just the ball, the Ali books that yours is the best. This is incredible. I just wanted. You know, I can't imagine a metal work you put into that. So you know thanks and he was like yeah. I don't know I mean I was I was like. Oh I got a letter. I go. That's Thomas Housing and this poor guy was looking at me like I was the craziest person the world because of this going on and on and on, and he can't get a word in because I've just like look. I just I love that book and it is a great book and we use get read what you read. What mail I read about this right. He wrote a book about this yeah yeah among all the fight.
Yeah, there's some good always that potentially now nobody who is the one I think redneck wrote about, he wrote a book about Ali but was more more geared towards them. The sixties and Ali and things like that and then there's just been so much I'll, be content its. I feel like there's nothing new at this point. This is still the best. This is only at its peak. It's the best, our story, because it's the more it is most improbable in and then the fact that, like all these positions were there in the scenes with like form in Don King James Brown, Talkin about being black in America, the MID seventies, like even that alone would be, the best piece of anybody else's dac, and it's like a fuckin after thought in this thing, yet mynors also that really weird bad interview where the guy mispronounced Zaire, he's got you the really long MIKE and he's like oh Muhammad thoughts.
I am using his who's, this guy that had access sally. I guess everybody did, but it was just it's. You could tell the guys really nervous, so we sort of screws up the whole led up and then end up in a very good question. On top of that, with it. There's ass other the other really really fantastically edited seen as the lady who, when they talk about, did somebody put a spell and George They show that ladies performance, interspersed with foreman and she's doing like those crazy eyes when she singing you don't talk about yeah yeah than she takes a shirt off up the duchess. Really, filmmaking I daresay scenes and those that are like just so far beyond the normal sports doc. Thank all time, great stuff, nervously, crew, Christopher. No one thing where this, like the three things are happening
what's as telling you the story and that's what they were doing in this. Did you did you ever read the Don King book only only in America or is it made them I forget, nine, I'm not a huge down. Can guy now, I'm not I'm not yet you even less of one after the fact, because all he did was steal from his fighters. Well, I don't know who did it but he would. He would do the same with Ali, where basically he would he would tell Ali was gonna pay em and then he would go out. You know boxers bags cash, that's the way you handle boxers. So we would all like a million dollars and then hand Mohammed Ali, like a bag of the cash afflict, fifty grand and duffel bag
Maybe you just take care me here you that in all these people be like stop doing that, stop doing that, letting him take advantage of you that way, and there are like mama- was such a pleaser people person that he actually wasn't. Would you think of him? He wasn't like confrontational as a person like we're on one, despite the fact tat, a cup educational guy a much bigger scale, but yeah that every time anytime, you start digging into any the Don King stuff? You like! Ok, like this, is it's rough? It's it's! It's pretty bad desecrates thing about this fight. It starts at four in the morning, Zaire time it ends for forty five. Whenever five o clock a merely starts pouring red immediately yeah they almost like it's a biblical. Ah
There has never been a fight like this, and now you know it's funny, knowing what happened the foreman over the next twenty five years after this fight were eventually he becomes this beloved guy who becomes This memorable personality in his own right becomes the announcer than he adds in probably winning a heavyweight title, and it's almost like a second George form a night. It's hard to reconcile that it was the same George Foreman seems like two different people. Was their life from warriors. There's two, my greenbacks I've ever thou. In that I didn't, I hadn't heard yeah. That would make sense that it makes
and some others MIKE Mike ears like these guys guys on again right. It's have played up. Would you have come up with the pack as history? I don't know yet basketball by come back. If that's good has back we'll talk about it, talk about that yeah. Really. I don't have a plan, yet amateur probably put that plan together, a sap, the first thing in the morning. I dont think you fully gotten weird occupied, yet When the quarantine started it was. I got man, resellers really get it to have. Some left turns here.
We're not sure I'd fully happened, yet its eighty percent happened. I have some good news for the audience before we go on Tuesday. The redrafted balls comes back on this package, two thousand for half an hour. We already taped it, and then I thought next week. Possibly we could do a five on this package has done. Member o five Luke Chris Paul anybody, yeah love it Martell Webster yeah, so it's let's get they're gonna reseller a pleasure as always attack decent thanks man. I thanks to zip cruder thanks to HBO Max. Remember it's a new streaming platform, olive HBO meets greatest collection and movies and shows you get all the HBO Series get time as classics like wizard of OZ castle back in the Lord of the Rings trilogy yet New MAC
regional forever, like love life, legendary, not delay with Almah, he had South Park Rick morning. Are your favorites all one place for just forty nine nine per month? Hbo Mac starts streaming made. Twenty seventh visit, HBO Max dot com to learn more and thanks to Navy fetters. Credit union may, as military appreciation month, Navy Federal Credit Union proud to serve active duty, military veterans and their families. There are military appreciation, Navy, federal Credit Union is celebrating with special offers, and parliament's credit cards are to get some more joint Navy federal credit in thanking service members during military appreciation went by the hashtag hashtag mission, military thanks, maybe federal credit members- are the mission we watch was coming up mundane boomerang, we'll be back here on Tuesday with the two
as for we draft was and more seamen, ways.
Transcript generated on 2020-05-31.