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Could China Cancel the NBA? Plus, Fox's 'Smackdown' and WWE vs. AEW With Jason Gay and David Shoemaker | The Bill Simmons Podcast


HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by the Wall Street Journal's Jason Gay to discuss the fallout from Daryl Morey's Hong Kong tweet, the upcoming exhibition games in China, whether or not the NBA has leverage, where ESPN fits into all this, and more (2:36). Finally, Bill talks with David Shoemaker of 'The Masked Man Show' to discuss Fox's 'Friday Night Smackdown' and this year's stacked wrestling calendar before asking, "Do we have too much wrestling?" (1:06:10).

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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There really is a really especially funny one very flawed movie about we love, it say, can listen that come up we're gonna die. The Jason Gay about this crazy and be a China story which continues to keep going. And then we are going to talk about the one our mark to our old friend, David Shoemaker, about everything that's happening with, that Debbie inspect down and everything else, that's all up in a second. First, our friends for project. I we're tape unless it's a little bit after what o clock specific time for Easter time on a Tuesday. So if stuff changes at all over these next few hours are apology. We get this Pakistan as fast as possible. Jason get
The Wall Street Journal is on the line. I think the most fascinating NBA stories since the Entire Donald Sterling saga is happening. I now it's in motion. It's gonna change. They are playing two preceding games there. Tonight it is an internet. Incident all started by rockets. Gm Darrell Murray, it's extremely complicated and a lot of sides to an unfortunate Jason, we live in a world down two thousand nineteen, where everything has to be black and white. An you either on one side or the other, and you have to say this or that- and there is no nuance in and My opinion. This is a story that has a lot of new ads and is really complicated and for People are really like us away incorrectly. You to do a lot of research. What was your first reaction as this was unfolding? I,
did not have Darrow Morey accidently stumbling into a massive GEO political crisis in my at Ba Season accepted many of them. I mean, I just think it's a remarkable story from so many angles have been. You have a league here, you know this is, the NBA, the league that can do no wrong. It's now being no bashed on the laugh, bashed on the right side of the NFL, all of a sudden and and and you have Adam Silver, whose you know barely had a drop of bad press in five years, as commissioner he's at the centre of the biggest doorman- and I think this is much bigger than sterling in some way. Sterling was a simple situation, yeah, I think it's got pieces of different stuff. I mean I was in the vortex of this all about spend a time when the thing that the past I did that was so kind Go get down, blew up and became a national story. That story was no one, one hundredth as big as the story.
That story was an american story. That became a thing I got thrown into the whole, whatever the national cycle for a day and a half, and then you get spit out and you get replaced by the next thing. This is feels like it's gonna get bigger. This involves probably the two most powerful countries we have this. I have so many different modifications, not including like kind of not that important but secretly important stuff like a cat change. The NBA salary cap and change. It really could. Yeah. Neatly shut down the NBA. In China in a way that I don't think anybody fully realises lecture China could decide. Tomorrow we have cancelled the NBA The SBA is no longer going to be shown in China. We will not have deals with the NBA will not have deals with its players. The leagues has used to exist in this country. This
actually in play. What do you think the odds of that actually happening her? The other element of it not as shift its focus here, but but is it? What kind of love says the NBA? Have you know this is something that people are asking now. Does the NBA have leverage in this narrow? Typically, what we ve seen in these kinds of disputes is the corporation that as offended China has immediately apologized and tried to move on. The NBA has an explicitly apologized here it and in my colleague Ben Cohen, and James already, whose in Shanghai wrote this piece about how look as valuable as market as China is to the NBA. The NBA is also an incredibly valuable entertainment resource for China, and you know they are their own thing, the other NBA a sweet
No one else has leubronn and hardened and Zion, and you know they have some cards to play here. So, yes, China can pull the plug on everything and they ve already pull the plug on. I think those are a nets event that was supposed to happen The Lakers are coming tonight and they have an event tomorrow. They could pull the plug on the exhibition game itself, but I think that the NBA is aware of the fact that they also have some power here and I'm curious to see how much they pushed back, even if it means pulling up stakes. Well, that's one eleven Pacific time. I really want to make this clear. We know we are. This is going to over the next twelve hours, but I think there is a real chance that these two games get cancelled near and nba high tales it out of their today because here's what here's, what is in play potentially protesters and protests, there's a foreign country that, as occasionally proven that it can be pretty dangerous
where you would have protesters outside the hotels and you would have protesters outside the stadiums, and there is no guarantee that at some point that might not be caught a little bit unsafe, and if I was the NBA, I would get the F out right now. Just fly back, let it safe it blows over or not. But I think it's I think it's risky to play the games there, and you know I really read. I tried to read a lot about the story. The last two days. I don't really know what was going on Hong Kong at a cursory understanding of it. The story is so complicated and nuanced ghost in so many different a different directions, and it starts with somebody who committed murder in time. And fled to Hong Kong and open up this whole extradition thing
China becoming involved and if you go back further, like that, the great hand over ninety ninety seven, where I was handed over from the british and it's supposed to operate as its own country and I think, was interesting to see Joe size is the Brooklyn owner. He had that whole statement and he's talking about how the hop on issue for the Chinese, here's that their worried that there's a separatist kind of element to this- that there's a path here, That's being pattern brewing for the last year s the nine minds that could lead to Hong Kong. This is what China, thanks potentially trying to become its own country and that's what China doesn't want it. Like it's their territory. Much like this is terrible and gee, but you know if hole. Why was trying to say hey? Actually we want to be on countries grew guys, not that date there. So many different problems with that analogy, but it's just a shadow from an american standpoint. China does not want this
in China, as we know, can be ruthless and brutal and a different ways which is what's been simmering this whole time at this, and that's where it gets complicated Jason, is that we are now tapping into hundreds thousands the issues of chinese history, and just the latest the Darrow more awaited into with one tweet yeah, but I don't see it as that because, as you know, the analogy that you draw mean yeah there's a lot of things are problematic about the fact that you know we're not an authoritarian state, thank God, but I had not yet, but you know, I think this really goes back to the idea of know. How much is the NBA willing to stand behind the idea of free speech and individual liberty of expression, and this is something that is not for the NBA just some sort of slogan. It is their fundamental ethos and silver in the last couple of days,
I think that initial statement satisfied nobody and then he gave a clarifying interview in that kind of satisfied. Nobody then it came out with his own statement, which came out today were muddying up the timeline, because you know another hours ahead, many hours ahead, but item your issuing a statement and doing a revised statement. You know, there's some public relations bungling that's happening, but I think it's very clear that the NBA feels caught in between an idea of themselves and what practically they have to do in this relationship with China, and that is the trade off that you do when you have business with this country- and I dont know if you're going to have you know some sort of like protests in Shanghai me the jump was in in Shanghai today with the nets and things seemed a little calm there. I think things are rather quiet at the moment, but the Lakers get in and silver gets in, and you know who knows where it goes from the. And for the NBA did the Debbie Debbie attacked by the seller on Sundays by the Debit Abbe
his embarrassed similar situation with lower stakes in Saudi Arabia, where they had committed to do all these events there and then the journalist got murdered and or we found out how he got murdered, and there is a lot of push and then the pull out of these events and their even some Debbie Debbie performers clearly want to be involved. Here they come out, I'm not going there and the Debbie Debbie, I think everybody kind of thought out I'll pull out. This is wrong, and then they stayed they actually I'm they ve had to paper views there and they justified it as the following. They didn't just. But they just ploughed had did it in the cash the Czechs and think everybody has a price at some point. I think the end thing is so different them.
Debbie Debate for a mandate for reasons, but financially the stakes are staggering, mean you're talking just what what ten cent pays for for the rights just to show the games affects affects the bottom line. That's probably, I would say they its five hundred million. I think the players get half or that the owners with the other side. So, that's almost, you know eight million, a team that allows the cap the go up right and ah you know so if if ten cent was like we're done in ten cents, basically, like kind of Amazon ask over there, that why that's a just a lot of money to pass up- and these guys are all greedy billionaires as we know the shore
and what's also unique about the situation, is that you have a circumstance where not just the basketball itself, but the leagues, chief sponsors and partners and media outlets are all in business with China as well. This is not some sort of thing where it's just the NBA going out it alone. This is all integrated into television contracts, the other the games, you know, show european coverage in China and thou. How that all relationship works, the apparel companies Nike and indeed as enormous investment in China for many many years and- and this is not unfamiliar turf to NBA Superstars- Mean- is now become sort. A part of the NBA superstar summer now to do a tour of Asia and especially to hit china- and you know we haven't even touched on one of the other elements of this- is that how surreal it is for the Rockets, the kind of b, the genesis of this crisis, because it is the Rockets with ya, mean who grind of just took
the NBA and China to a whole different level and here's your men coming out of silver talk in today's hang. Our main is really bad, really hot right now I mean there's just remarkable dynamics here playing on real time, yet the two official, I would say, NBA teams in China, would be the rackets and now the nets, because Josiah was taiwanese but stung the biggest. Carried it seems I they had to dangled, carry and K De when they are trying to learn them other than that were not the next and we're not owned by James DAWN. Was that I was that you know this. This is gonna open up doors for you in China. You just have no idea, just trust us. You come in here the relationships we have there's so much money over there, all of its legal from a sailor caps standpoint in a decade, whatever mark in India they get from China and doesn't counting seller cap, and you have these two characters above Darrow Morey, who was with the hour for most of his.
Here who knows first hand how important the chinese business is further rackets and he obeying the buzz, Miss Chinese by Rivera the NBA, who is now a real figure there and then Josiah first. Taiwanese american owner with a rabbit, the first honor with any real connections to that side of the of the world and who gonna. Be this really really crucial important owner going forward for the leak this guy. One of the region they really want to know why the team is. He was opening above these avenues for them in the Far EAST sure I mean look at
I got there actually having this exhibition. This exhibition was scheduled many many many many months if not years ago, and their involves like the three supermarket NBA teams coming over the reform or other to reply in Japan, but the layers of the nets are two very exciting: two thousand nineteen, two thousand twenty teams. There therefore reason they consider this to be an extremely important launch pad for NBA Seas, and so this is nothing new. I mean this is gone back decades now their interests and expansion there and, as you said, the implications now are being beyond simply. You know what happens in the next couple of days, because, yes, if there were some sort of divestment from China, does have economic implications, velly going forward well- and I think gone back to where we talk of an earlier. The dynamics of you know happening in Hong Kong and the extradition bone? All that stuff, I think, there's. I think it's hard for us to realise how people in China, I receive in this story a couple differ.
Was one there only getting certain information about the story right there only get in the information that is being given to them. I also see this a little differently now I had some. I had asked on Sundays gas there I was like this. There is really confusing. I want to spend some time researching and heard from a lot of different people and some smart people in some readers and some people, my life for things like that, and I think one of the key points here is that, however, this extradition thing plays out, the fear is that this would lead to Hong Kong seceding from China, which is a real thing to people in China where, as we see it as a pro democracy, because that's how we see things because we live here, they say it is something different and days something like what they're all dead in him, not apologizing as like an affront, especially if its being fed to them a certain way. If IE, if the rubber it's going through,
This whole kind of juice, splendor of information that's going from, however, are the whole chinese media operations and even the government down to the people and their seen this nurse in their basically saying. Why is this guy from our favorite mba team waiting into this you four year period, Why are we hearing from you? Why are you making this worse than you could? This is like pouring gasoline and on a fire, and I think that's a big part of this I think that's why the NBA? It may be very careful what they said publicly about thereabout. I think privately there absolutely out of their mind furious about this, because it was comes down to like it's one tweet, you know. Is it worth it? I've been in situation a few times you're that situation we every time we three that could be the end of our careers and allotted for ways. This is way worse. That causes actually started international incident. I started do that
In a moment. He was aware of the potential implications here, or do you think it was just kind of atossa way tweet? I think he knew the back story, but I also think we ve created this car. And this goes back to the point you are making about. The NBA were the obeys they woke league. The NBA is the leak that does tweets like this, and you see the positive affirmation that people are pop of age and Steve Car have gotten from waiting into different political arguments and trying to stand for things that I think you and I stand for a lot of cases and they ve gotten praise in its become a big part of their identity, and people really respect them for having the quote on courage to stand up for stuff that they believe in. This is a whole other animal, because
if you're waiting in today S and your aunt I China, which is how his tweet was perceived in others. There is real followed, not just for the late, but maybe for somebody personally, you know maybe the the social media there's botz that can get on. They send you and all that stuff, and it's just a different level of. Ah, you know, I think, there's a fear factor with this end in took about does unease at the top about just you know this story having you know, levels a nuance to it. I don't think there is many nuances, perhaps as the NBA you know has put out there, but I think that
The environment that we are in now lends itself to sort of start declarations, one way or the other right yet, and so, when the league is out there with these statements that are in a kind of having it both ways, neutral ism warrior defending the leaks tradition of free speech wall. So acknowledging you know China's offence here. You know that kind of language. That kind of hedging doesn't really play anymore. You know it's not the kind of language at speaks or connects with people or satisfies you know now people anymore, so you know that's why I think this story continues to have legs at any of the other part of those kind of amazing is that this will happen before the NBA got there. It was like they set up the circus before the circus even showed up right. You know, like Morey the layers of the nets weren't even in China and are in this thing.
Already went near sideways and the fact that there are now coming are going to play this game theoretically on Thursday is just too much to me that this is just going to keep. Oh there's two amazing coincidences to this. Actually, two and a half. If you got the fact that well actually wasn't in China when he did ass. He was in Japan, but the first one is that South Park, just did it happen last week that completely secure China and was delightful and really funny, and now it's playing out real life South Park. This has happened before over the for South Park, where they ve been weirdly pressing it with some sort of issue that was boiling in them would bubble operative, like oh, my God, the South Park. I just did that a day literally just did there. So that was weird and anxious the timing of matches.
The NBA going there right before you know right after this tree, and this became a whole firestorm, but you know the fact that, like Europeans, there too So is this big mba any as PM. Embracing our Chinese training and other other fans. The one point, five billion fans whatever their number is- and this was gonna- be this awesome kind of victory to our fur. Likewise, we're really growing our game here. This is our second most important market, basically other than America and then flips, and now it silver, who can avoid the microphones psyche, can't talk about this. They have scheduled. Press conferences already that he has to do it now. This is what we're talking about take a break. I have a follow up, thought on that, but hold that a second we talk about state farm. They believe in helping people in strengthening communities being good neighbours,
The dna core values, as they farm and poise and agents thereof, with many organizations and initiatives that are focused and bring about peace, that. If China should the communities we live in, such as neighbour had assessed, which strengthens neighborhoods by providing selected organizations with grants, make their community better or education, assist, provides funding to colleges, universities and nonprofits in order to help students successfully obtain skills critical for long term economic security. Don't worry about nearby of good as well self explanatory earlier this year, stay farm launch their one hundred for good initiative which challenges employs across the country form, one hundred acts of good, big or small, they'll positively, their communities. This programme shines alive and how individual ask him clucked, we make a huge impact in communities across the country, find out or about what they are doing and how we can get involved in your community and neighbourhood of good.
Coming back on and silver, and you know this blowing up I know they would a hundred times are behind choose not to have, this is funny This was a stern tradition for David Stern back in the day where there were no be some sort of either not scandal by the kind of moment. Events controversy within two three weeks before the season started to kind of drama. Just in the season- and I was finally goes manufactured by him wherever he like two weeks- before I Billig hey, I've decided the change the rules for how people dress on the bench, if they're not playing a pupil like why they a talk about Africa as unthinking his mind, and it was clearly strategic. This has to be his wet dream for some sort of before this in controversy somewhere the smoke a jack again, oh yeah. This is great.
Come on rating SIRI Go, I don't know I mean I I mean I just got a glorious, shouted stirred people heard Zaki about this in areas that are not directly talking about it in other doing CNBC, trooped arguing about it. You know on Wall Street, but I feel like this is a nightmare, because this is not what they envision. As you said, this was supposed to be the sort of very in a play, unveiling of the New Laker's and the new gnats in this thriving new market where we have new ownership? This was just going to be. You know a very sore well choreographed, happy moment for the league and it's now anything, but but I do think it's a very instructive store,
I don't think this is the kind of thing I mean. We know you know NBA media, NBA, fanned em, and our days is so obsessive and, like I do feel it's weird to like, maybe have like you. Seventeen takes on the Sacramento kings back court, but no take on this. I think that Like it's worth, you know, spending a little time and looking at it and you're gonna learn a lot about this. And you're gonna learn a lot, especially about Adam Silver, through following this topic for the next few weeks. Why was surprised at this, more reflection on how awful social media is in two thousand eighteen steeper was trending this morning because he didn't have a take it in He bore people mad at him that he was Looking at the situation in going, this is actually the complicated I want to learn more about it before I say how I feel, and The reaction online was basically fuck, you that's no.
Now here the work, I you you ve, you been before you have to have an opinion. Now, how dare you had had their You want more time to study a topic in researching talk to people about it. That's unacceptable, basically, the reaction today, mine from human beings, yeah, I get it, I mean. Listen, it's too hard to not like notice has to leave. Her has been a: u no kind of at the forefront of a lot of social issues and I'm afraid to speak his mind about things that are happy United States and then to sort of make the reference to his brother. Being a disease brothers, a chinese China is a fresh chinese studies. Yeah right, sir, like you know the kind of in a kick the can down the road when people are asking for a comment on that cause, he shown himself to be. You know a citizen of the World Steve Kerr and for him to sort of not want to address this. I can I get why that's a tasty snack for anybody who,
the deck a swing at the NBA. I get that entirely. Rather, they should probably mention that speakers, father was killed by the piano and maybe he's he's gonna. Take his time before he Wade's into open, really serious international incident. I have eight lessons from this incident. This incident. Where do we call the Georgia mercy, the evolving controversy cut controversy influx, My first lesson is just don't tweet. I think all of us should just stopped waiting is realistic. What if we just stop treating you know, I think that's been great advice for the last near sighted I've waiting for someone to take it. You know what I love this: A high profile people theatrically, quit Twitter and then, Sir, like gradually walk back onto its idea. Yet I miss it, they bear the same way. People this heroin but Think Twitter might be worse than heroin. Twitter is based.
If you ve made a program list of the pros and cons, the pros would be like the ability to promote myself and then the coins would be like seven pages on your heart had none that it would not have said, but you know thought. It was funny that Steve Current just even doing a tweet, much less talking in a press conference extemporaneous lay about something he clearly did know enough about was was gist cause for people to come at Adam, which makes me think, like in a very clear leg. I dont know enough about this. I don't even understand, what's happening to you, our target by now, but on Sunday I made a very clear, like I don't know enough about this. I don't even know your statements happening. Do we have responsibility, all of us to he's trying to learn about a story before we waited for something. That's this important, yet let of enlightened. Is how the lines of move right I mean you and I are close the same age. I know you're fifty something now but
I'm fifty. I don't give me this something how that area, but you know I remember when I can remember who it was, but the first person I saw who had a dot com address with their name in it, and it was like you know Joe schmo dot com and it had all their stories on, and I was like man that is some crazy ego. Maniacal naughtiness, I can't believe, like someone would dedicated, higher website, deposing their stories and then came the wave of people can of emailing around their story. Sang like here's, my story, you should click on it. If you wanna, we would have to say, and also thinking that was crazy and when Twitter first happened, there was a submission, an initial wave of like. Why should anyone care about what thank you, no twenty four hours a day or what I think about things that have nothing to do it. My area of expertise. Bananas can mean completely normalized and it feels like there's that kind of this cultural pressure, especially if you're in you know journalism resume its a pop in on topics where you have no expertise or where you don't even like you know, there's no appetite
For your opinion, I just think that it's a funny thing. The word just kind of normalize that behaviour now and it's not. The kind of thing we look at us being strange anymore, like if I waded into Kyle's office this morning, and I was like what the NBA China take. I need a right now and he is like, I want to take now. I wonder I want a short take from you now and then he stumbled and gave it taken. As I was a bad take it. I walked out, that's based twitter is become yeah or just like kind of wondering. If that's like somebody, you know it's like more like wandering into a room full of strangers. To think this is what I think about the Dolphins front office Lionel like it's just an old variety of topics like We can all agree, You know I think, we're all are afraid of the potential of of China in any situation like this, given previous behaviour, I also know that I'm afraid even talk about it.
You know- and I think when I think about these- not just that himself, but you think about guys like abroad and Kevin Thereat, and I'm trying to think of what other guys have really kind of Dover into this stuff where they ve talked about like you know some of the stuff Trump's done and Excetera Excetera. Are they go on the shop they talk about? You know how the NCAA needs to play its players. It's all stuff that is kind of gone through. A a cleanser Kay. There's the repercussions are never going to be that bad, you know which, which makes it ok me dive. N, you see my gear whatever, but this is one of those were like Brown came out in really gave some thoughtful thing about how he feels like China is completely in the wrong
with how their handling the Hong Kong protesters and he spent the last two days reading about it, and he actually thinks the protesters art are, are saying and doing all the right things. Maybe they ve got a little bit overboard, but he fundamentally believes in what they're doing anything China needs to lead up and get rid of these law. This law people would have a fucking heart attack now Agri and that's gonna be fascinating. To watch a man is a guy who's. You know be willing to put himself forward on a variety of social issues and we saw it just last week- he's like it out sitting next to gain new services, signing legislation but the fair pay to play act. You know he is doing his day and if he gets there yet and weighs about him he's not. He is he's not going near this in. I don't. I don't take any these, why should you think zero chance?
so in that? Unless it gets worse or something happens, I'd I just don't see the upside in honestly, don't know. If I care about Lebruns Lebron James has taken this story. Do you the gay Cinderella, man or some countries, I'm curious ass. You are you careers because he's a public figure or your cares of him as one of the mere thinkers. You now and he's gonna bring some insight to the situation that you haven't thought of, yet I'm curious from this perspective. This is a guy who's, gonna, stripped away. The idea that you know superstar athletes are supposed to be the sort of opinion, less valueless people. You know, and he has been willing to sort of get out there and put his voice out their answer. It take the heat when the heat was coming and don't forget. You know whether his hair or Currie, these guys have tackled with the president I'd states, which is no small thing
and and so yeah. If you was going to weigh into this kind of stuff, I want to hear it so when he went after Trump that time during the whole Kaepernick thing, I thought that was one of the coolest things. Any athletes done where he was just like I'm gone for it and it was really unusual because you know, I think, we'd seen. Obviously the guys from the sixties are at a whole other level of our great. They were some of this stuff folly in Russell and Gibran Alice people and what we have seen this decade was people kind of pretending they stood for staff are not really
accommodating in the clippers. Instead of just boycott in that warriors playoff game, throwing their warm up jackets and Mccoy wish. I still could be as the years pass. I think it's lamer and lamer is who really look at that? Lebron seemed like the one person's life. If I feel strongly about something David, Trayvon Martin, he did it with Trump a few times. If you feel strongly about something that you're going to hear from him. I guess my question with this. Is you know when Josiah says it's definitely a third real issue for chinese people on the main there now he took some liberties that he talked about like this is made. It seem like Hong Kong was trying to separate, which is not true, but when he says it's a third rail issue for chinese people
if I, if I'm an NBA starting to hear that I'm going okay good to know sure unquestionably- and I think that you know Lebron is heard. Certain things are third rail issues. In the past I mean he's been somebody who's been wanting to get out there and talk about the real issues, and I understand the distinction you're trying to draw between what's happening I know where there's a normative economic investment was directly impact. The league and some blown us away. I history, a history that he's none of us are familiar were not from there and I had a friend my tell me that his parents were from China. His entire life than ever at a japanese product in their house, and it's cycle that something you, and I cannot understand we don't
sustained the legacy in the scars of certain things, and I think furlough Bron to jump off the top rope with some. You know whatever I do. I don't know if that's a great idea yet, but I think that, like into allude to the peace that Brian Phelps did for you guys, who show that was really good that yet like there is enough. This can be distilled into a rather simple thing, which is that this is about expression and labelling. Cancers speak broadly to that idea. The agreed here of certain commenting in being able to comment with liberty on things, because that is what he has tried to do it, and we have seen time and time again in the last number of years that the broadest kind of made it safe for athletes to come out and speak on social issues and he's been out of a vanguard of that and not just in the NBA across all major sports. I think people look to him that way and and and on that for
like that's a change, and that is something that you know: leagues and sponsors, and so on are trying to get comfortable with. Not everybody is comparable with that. Believe me well, and that leads to another lesson from this. Is everyone was way too slow to react? Darrell should have whenever he was gonna say it should have been sooner because the longer you deleted tweets and then nothing happens, and then your owner throws you under the bus. Without I mean, I think, Tillman like shooting out of a cannon was a big like part of the island. But at that point this is now on fast forward and you have to move, and if you read anything about a crisis situation there be any Pierre situation like this move. Is, is the lesson and nobody moved and by the time he finally gave his statement is clear. He didn't really want to apologize. If you read between the lines of what he said, it's not an apology. Psychology apology in his thing that he wrote down I'll just hear hear.
He regretted that it led to a couple outcomes maybe he didn't anticipate, but he didn't apologize for what he said: and then you have the NBA witches were Brian wrote about yesterday, you wrote about it too, for the Wall Street Journal, the NBA, just kind of placid coming out of the gates, Finally, Adam sobered today was a lot more forthcoming about. Like look. We we support our prayers, read for free speech. He said on a Tuesday. This whole thing was unfolding on a Friday and Saturday. That was seventy two hours late in my opinion year, and how unusual also to have in a week talked about a minute ago, but just a circumstance where you have the controversy as kind of the app
hazard. To the arrival I mean Adam Silver going to China now mean that, as you know, another part of what makes this story wild, but I feel like with the language- and you know the NBA too, is pushed back on the notion that it is apologize. There was that brief belief that, like their chinese statement, was more forthcoming or more apologetic than the english statement, that's something that the NBA has denied. They push back on the notion that they have you no apology. More is behalf, but yeah. They are trying to sort of work. This. You know middle rail here of not apologizing but acknowledging. You know China's dissatisfaction or extreme discomfort with this. One other lesson from this: I I wasn't sure there was story anymore that could bring all the different types of people who seem to be Irene. About this on one side where you had,
Elizabeth Warren Tag, crews, work all lined yeah outrage, Chris, ass, a really wise. It was they who is it our reach free for all? It was like one of those where everybody gets in the bar free there's, no cover charge eighties, get too the average bar together Elizabeth Word haven't seen it awhile and it was really crazy. I dont really remember another story late that we might never see another story like that concern our split everybody is these days here yeah I mean this and you know I get it by, but where I saw get off the bosses word people I've been using this story, s kind of a stocking, whores,
attack you know progressive politics of rhetoric on progressive politics. You know I can understand why people's eyebrows arrays that Steve Curs Non answer on it, but but I dont think its correct, a sort of throw out what NBA players have been saying and doing on social issues for the past bunch years, because that's real, that's real stuff and has real implications and as much as people want to sort out characterize it s. Sort of business pose. I don't think it entirely as at all I liked, when some of the politicians who have supported some of the terrible tactics we ve done in this country. We are now waiting in plain the moral high horse and stuff China staring it's a great with people in cages. Right now, are you a wee wee wee school school shootings in shooting their Walmart send shootings. Basically in there is a barn city there? How many shootings area to the share and those people are taking money from from
gun control in the hypocrisy was kind of suffocating I say that is now an aids are real, high horse, Rodya right cycle. I've already you know just coming in and and- and I think this is another part we started spoke about- how, like you know the rules of change with regard to public comment and twitter, and you know how the boundaries of two May. I think that now it used to be, you could say something and peoples, I will add, sort of factually wrong and you know hears why'd, you, Sir, to correct the record. Now. I just think that people try to be. You know to quote the cliche. You know the loud voice in the Roman, just try to say the loudest thing in the thing that sticks. You know the most clearly and try to in the minutes, and I dont think it lends itself to any sort of neurons conversation. Will you know who asked anyone is a span and we're going to talk about them after the spring Let's talk about square, they make that little way. Credit card reader that helps businesses take payments and it could be any business
I've had a lotta haircuts over the last few years, where these square, I'm counting you're square. Yet I began square, you can get your square get. My squire get square it just so much more than just the way card reader. Let's say Europe in a retail shop, say? European in child? I come probably taken properly taken. You wanna do, Looking register your letter, so you stuff I mind, you need to stand tab observatory made even so accustomed custom gift cards to your store for the darkroom. Where can help with all that in such as retail square, can help you no matter what your type of businesses see all the ways square can take your business in cars business from square. One to whatever's. Next, at Squared Archive splash go slash bs to do this for your buddy music career. I d drop in racks and Twitter Euro area squares carefully. The darker doesn't have gift card that path, and I get a great idea square. Calm, slash, go slash, bs, ok,
this is another lesson from this controversy member forest come when he's running from the kids and then he turns into an adult any still running full speed as fast as possible down the dirt road, and our this is going the SBA the lesser days It is complicated because there are two reasons why the NBA, as one of their biggest business partners to there owing to China, like they have a bunch of high ranking executives there right now, because they have the games, the jump they're all that stuff. And then three we're in this new era- vs Pierre, where they don't want any part of this and as such, is this then anything they just want to show us games and the silence is maybe that's right, word or quietness eerie, quiet from
our favorite ESPN personalities and MBA reporters who were clearly told not to go anywhere near the story was pretty damning because this was the biggest NBA storing five years. What would you take on that are you. So you think there is a very clear directive to not touch this talent. I am not reporting that I am just a small person who worked there, for in half years reading the tea leaves of dead silence and the biggest story in five years. Yeah and that they're using wire service reports- and nobody like think about it. This was the other type of MBA story. You would have the woes tree like sources
there are more, he says show about by. We had none of that now or nothing or zero. Sure I mean- and that's also you know, candidly a function of comfort level. You no one knows the landscape of trades in the process, and so on, like that not enough here,
to wait until this particular subject. Besides information now sure- and I think that like there was a wave of ESPN coverage of this when it initially broke out about you know whether was Joe size involvement or what item silver was trying to do. You know with regard to repairing this, but I do feel like you had burst its inter. I watched the first half hour the jump today, so if they did anything in the back half hour here, they began with the Nixon. The wizards Marcus Morris, like putting the basket by was to lead story, though, is the lead story about a hut. They cut very quickly to Rachel Nicholls who is in in ensuring high an end. She did talk by the situation. She spoke very directly about it, and you know it wasn't completely measured. I mean she did call this a pr disaster and she did have a bit of news about the fact that this game on Thursday might not happen
What would be a huge deal? They she enriched Jefferson, went to the nets. The nets are in their hotel. She had Deirdre, Jordan, Spencer, Dinwiddie, sorry to spoil the jump for people who are watching their United Ass TAT, as for the other, what southern they're they're getting in their year they're getting in there I mean, I don't know, maybe maybe led the showed that are now beyond me. Why should it? No? I mean I'd, but I'd also like they didn't like. I mean it structured as a debate show and they did not like kick better. We are few in their defence to Marcus Morris, touching wizards, where the head with the Basque about, was a massive international story, but I don't know I just that the China story, men of a bigger, but I I will say that I am optimistic and hopeful I mean I think Rachel is you know she's fundamentally reporter. She began as a print reporter she's pro a chomping at the bit to go on a story like what she meant after get down, and that was not as dangerous as the story. Perhaps she was one of the ones darts at all.
More so than anybody else. You'd turned you no good out into a puddle and in our so if you're, a reporter like she is, this is great stuff. This story has a little bit of everything and I am sure that she's like chomping at the bed to go at it, well about. How then do we are? you think they're gonna to their people on this because I've, I would say, This is a new era for that cup. Where they would probably run from this. While this is the problem, though, because what happened, you know what the conversation was. I guess I can remember when the last time the sort of like inertia you know sports and politics and we're not oppose the lab retired. That's right the laboratory thing so that wasn't that the sort of parts,
What happened on was you know, we don't want people to go free reign cheer and just talk about politics, but when politics intersects with sport, that's great. This is the definition of politics intersecting with sport. This is not just politics and it's likely what sport does politics intersecting with the sport that has decided is the most important sport that covers it's a deeply embedded with the league and has a huge relationship with this sport. They put a daily program together to do it, I'm home, that they may have some awfully talented people to do it, but yeah. This is her to going to call the bluff on whether or not they truly believe that that's something that's in their coverage, though I'm going to say it's not I also think this, such as politics intersecting with sports, its politics intersecting salary cap. This is a high level of politics. This,
They may cause the salary Cathay go down by like eight billion dollars. So just explain that to somebody who doesn't, I understand this: are we talking about an earlier legumes, monthly payments based on revenue that they bring in? So we rightly unless it five hundred million dollars from China, the seller kept goes down. Do you think Darrell's play long ball here, and this is somehow this is going to help the rockets I've, the AIDS traffickers, have some friends of them and you know, I think, he's in a tough spot where now, if he was gonna, get fired, and I think he was probably way closer getting fired last week and then people realize they can't do that now, because, if you're Tillman for Tata for Tita for Tita Tillman for Tita Safer taught, I like his breakfast image, Tillman for Tita who
if you go back into his history and some of his shut up and what's the name of the book, while his books called shut up and listen, which is immediately you sound like somebody who might not want to be somebody. People want to work for hey. I got you in order to have copy of shut up and listen to convene a nine tomorrow. But he's also you now he's is kind of a Oh darling, you just is: yes he's kind of a man. So far, these different blowhard owners we seen in the NBA Nfl these rich self, made billionaires who are coming in hot. You can guess where they lean politically and economically allowed a different stuff, and I don't think he wants to be. No, as the guy who fired GM ended and stand up for him, because that goes on your legs, these guys autumn? I care about what other people think of them.
That's going to govern their decisions on you. You re sure we're having different conversations that I was having over the weekend. I never thought for one second, that it was viable to fire more. I just didn't think that that was a possibility. I know there are people out there who thought thou. I think there is a report that it was under consideration. I just didn't think it made any sense whatsoever for the rockets for them
for anybody involved just it was in the worst possible message, but I mean how fascinating I feel like a morey enough himself is like a whole. Others had a wrinkle to this story, because this is a person who you know I mean is probably the most intriguing person who could be at the centre of this. This is a guy who's, anger reputation as an innovative as a heretic. You know somebody who's reinventing, not just basketball, but the whole way the NBA is built structured played on court. You know this is a guy who's, challenging every sort of mode of thinking about the sport and for him to be the person at the middle of this is like I mean it's, it's really. I think this is like you know watching like harden give the. I'm at the other day. I felt terrible for him having to get out there, and you know, say we apologise, which was just not I mean it feels like MIKE Nicholls movie. Re was higher than trade area just brutal by me
the whole thing like when you consider the elements of this in the power, especially in the characters in it I mean it's almost cinematic and it's only gonna get whack here in the next twenty four hours and it's the perfect kind of exclamation point to this goofy decade. We ve had of prayer empowerment, and guys continuing. You know what magic and M J starting in the eighties and shall continue to nine days than the broad and everybody in the two thousand swear it's brand. First, and team in the brand actually becomes the team in the guys, just go from city the city and doesn't never really matter with him. Are no more their brand supersedes the uniforms witches really a unique situation, not just for the NBA, but I think for any sport. But ultimately, when you have a brand used, are making decisions on how to protect that brand. First sure- and that's just not athletes, everybody that could be writers
seen it all over the place. All this decade and a lot of it is through Twitter Instagram, then Facebook, in rural areas. So you see that James harden little thing that he did. I would love to the other backer led to that of ambient air not out. There is good guy got his back and then his business spanish be like Jameson disobeyed. This about forty million here. Just say that that is ok. Can you find a camera, so at Tacoma friends of China for one second I don't know who this Darrell is there. Who is that that talk iron's, our team? I do think your point about how dare kind of the greatest guy to be in this situation. I mean I feel bad for him, obviously, but he is the one and GM who doesn't necessarily need to work in the NBA he's somebody that kid really do ninety different jobs good work for hedge funds seek it work for entertainment, company, wherefore, baseball team of football team. He needs
and be a less than anybody who has ever been in this spot as an executive shore and also he's the kind of person who has blossomed in this next wave of the NBA in the NBA of it is the sort of market place of expression she so benefiting from it as much as anybody else, because people like him, who may not have been listened to a generation ago, are now much more valued and certainly appreciate, by the media and so on a couple more lessons quickly. We I asked earlier- and I think it's worth even talking about for a minute like the Howard unfolded, if China, who has certainly done irrational things in crazy things in the past, if they just cancel the NBA in their like we're done, That's it what that means, and also what that would mean for the people there who really love the NBA could that cause, but and shall unrest therein are less of. I dont think it'll play out that way, but you know what say ten cents we're not shown the first month of the season had as at play out.
I come from an american business stamp on I'm just like, but has I play in that country where they love basketball right now in this gets into like all kinds of like weirdness about, like you know, what is the public outcry? What is the reaction? How much of it is distant formation? How much of it is propaganda, the notion of a nation being outraged and what is the NBA reacting to our their act into real outrageous reacting to a government's stance? And I think this is where the sort of most live far. This story is what conversations are happening among NBA ownership amongst ourselves, her and whoever he's talking to about what leverage the league has here, because I agree with you: this isn't some sort of thing. You know there have again been many businesses of veto for whatever reason run across or run a foul of in China. This isn't the kind of thing where they just you know, apologize and reboot.
This is not what the idea is gonna do here. They ve made that pretty clear and they might have an opportunity to kind of you know, sat a new tone here by saying I look, we're gonna do this and you can react the way you're going to react, but were confident that you're either not gonna. U know yank everything or Europe to come back to us more quickly than you know, you're saying. Yet if there is really no way to say anything that makes people in Hungary a hundred percent great or people in China, filling Saint great without offending the other side and I'm sure that's. They ve tried to look from every angle and have been unable to which legions my legs lesson, which we learned Deb Debian South Africa, is how much is a business relationship worth first sports enterprise? We saw this with IE eight, with the sb
where they were really hard on the NFL really really hard. At data thick, I put a tiny part met and at some point the dal said you know I'll fuck, you guys I'm giving you the worst money for bus schedule anyone's ever had we ve tried to make sure we ve put every terrible quarterback on here at least woods enjoy this. This shit souffle you fuckers any. Did that and now patera comes in and any better, very smiley, first move as like. Rebuilt by relation with the NFL that relationship clearly worth more for them, then have climate, where people who work for them can just spout, often whatever they thought of. I wonder what the NBA prices with this. You know like this situation hours, let's say They have one of the games and there's really bad protests thing before and after an adjust escalates. What's the number that makes
ah, then, look at each other and go. This is worth it anymore, but I think the number would be ten figures that they would have to walk away from here. Ten figures in terms of like what will be the number that bitter their break point fur walking away. I'm saying They may be like this will cost us a billion dollars over the next, whatever I seven eight years, we're ok with that. If that numbers higher fits three billion hours, I don't know what it is. I don't know what the math is. Yeah yeah I mean, and at some point of at some point ye, you can end up just scanner. We just gotta play this out.
Lose that China money and that they may be in that situation. Here I mean, and also the league is not just like invested in this as some sort of like you know, entertainment thing there also there, as developmental there looking at you know, creating the next wave of chinese superstars through has enormous appeal to them. There are invested in many other countries for the same exact reason, and you know silver. As already pointed to this, you, the aftermath of all this, the like it's hard to look at its hard to find a more international league, certainly in North America, than what the NBA has put together, but I do feel again. There is probably a moment at which day you know, assess the risk of walking away, but I just don't think that
you know that right now- and I don't know, that's the sort of you know very highly pitched conversation that's happening internally is trying to determine you know what exactly is the risk of standing up because they are not like you know. This has been characterized in certain places as being the summer abject apology. It has not been expelled. Apology no and eat out competitively. This is a league that is run by thirty deeds and Adam Silver, who are all very, very motivated to try to supplant the NFL as the most successful sport in America and the biggest advantage they have is the globalization of the leak in the ability to sell basketball all over the fuck him.
Slick evenly my park ass, we ve seen the audiences grow in places. I never would have expected, like Australia, New Zealand like the Philippines for zeal for people, love, basketball and football as is not able to get that I mean American, for is it not able to break through those cities? In this and when they had the NBA knows this, and if you're drawn the case for the embryo be more paper and then found twenty five years, which who knows this is their fire. On the asked I mean, I would say, the NBA is greatest competitive advantage is the fact that basketballs like a little easier to play it safe. For me, I just that it's a hell of a lot safer as sport, but but unquestionably an look. The seeds of this were planted. You know a generation and a half ago now I mean this is not something that Sir come up in the autumn silver regime. The international law of the globalization of this game dates back decades now, and you know you could certainly point like a seismic of
like ninety six Barcelona with the dream team and was an eighty six and eighty to ninety two ninety art year. Those are you know, huge things that are paying dividends now, and I don't think this is something that you can just sort of extract. The league from it is big very much into the dna of the team, his big much into the valuations franchises? Now I mean you know both of us, I'm sure of had conversations with people about ownership right. The commissioner job in virtually every league, basically is ownership, franchise, value, franchise, value, franchise value at the end of the day. That's what these guys are judged upon, how they improve franchise value of people start to see their dipping. Then that's troubles
If they see them plaid telling there's trouble. So if you're talking about you know withdrawing from markets that start to lead to diminishment franchise values, while that's a headache more than attic existential problem. There's one last lesson in this than the Marina: we haven't really mention his name yet he's looming over the story like a black cloud. There's been times during the presidency, however, fairly feel way where chop becomes kind of, like your crazy uncle at Thanksgiving, where every base had a couple glasses of wine. Here I am, and I hope Hope Uncle Jason doesn't fuck and bring up the divorce from two years ago or whatever it is. Simmering, but you know, he's gonna, bring it out because his uncle Jason the man I'll go Jason, he's gonna. Do it he's gonna, wait till the pie comes out and then it's going to happen and try
is looming over this and he's been looming over for three days and is the perfect Trump story, because he can barreling and laid off the top rope he can for first, my husband feuding, which I anyway the last few months and now he can- put himself on opposite corners of the NBA elite that his expressed his disdain for people like Leubronn who have taken shots at him. He can do all his we're dog whistle stuff that he has been doing for five years now, and really really really make himself seem like the only person who actually understands this You know the NBA wasn't tough enough against China, but you know has been tough against China me Donald Trump. I'm right here and, as you know, is going do it I believe it is a he's, gotta, absolutely hundreds. I do this well, I don't know if you know this, but he's got some other stuff happen.
Other topics involving the president even more urgency in the nations capital? This is for him now. That means he can use this as a distraction the energy and that's, then we're talking about that. But Trump is talking out of all sides of his mouth here too, because an addition to like you know talking tough on China and tariffs, as is a guy who, I guess you know just a couple weeks ago, your congratulated China, on its seventieth anniversary communist rule, he was like a finger ass, the presidency and that China has real seventieth anniversary of the people. Above all, China, which drew him. You know you got a serious rebukes from his own party on that, so
oh he's not exactly on safe ground there, but that is never stopped now you're right that, like he, looms large in this topic, I certainly think that he is, you know licking his chops at the notion of going after the NBA, which has an tagging eyes him by not showing up to his. You know: congratulatory, Wendy's fear they won't go the White House Sentient, ask other one. So it's a real cared for him, but yeah he's he's now exactly stable ground himself well right now he's conferring, with candle, and Shiv in Roman and just trying to forget his plan. In writing. I, why area? Yes, my one succession point which I you know big fan like everybody else by I feel like there's- been tremendous love for all the supporting actors who are incredible, but I think Brian Cox's phenomenal. I think he has had an incredible. I mean I'm not saying anything newsworthy, that new proxies a tremendous,
dear, but I just think that our performance is unbelievable. Well, if he was involved right now, he would just say to China fuck off the now for this. I don't think so. No, I think he would be sending Roman over there to kowtow now for no Roman, moved them Racine again. Well, I a bomb wrong and I hope the story doesn't escalate and I hope it kind of debt down. It actually does concern me in and for a lot of different reasons, but especially as we still have people in China, and I hope it doesn't escalate deaf. I do We both agree craziest NBA store in five years about to get crazier. I think I think the next twenty four to thirty six hours are going to be as interesting as anything. That's happened in a major american sports Lake in decades, but we are wrapping up the second of the pack five or six eastern types of anything happens. We must give a gay media on the Wall Street Journal thanks for coming on his eyes. Thank you
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Are you kidding around the press box with Brad Curtis twice a week you can hear on the Mass Mantua, which covers wrestling as well on the Ringer pack has now work. He just talked about the press. By on the press box about China loaded Brand Curtis. I was yesterday now buncher. We ve learned a lot more to day David Shoemaker. I just wanna go here quickly, even though you talked about press backs. The parallels between this and Debbie Debbie in Saudi Arabia and how that was resolved will immediately for different debit. Have you each situation? It wasn't, I mean resolved per se. I think they manage to immediately. I guess it would stands out in the deputy case or at least what what stood out at the time when, when other, when, when various we were trying to make the argument that you know many, many major corporations do business in Saudi Arabia is deputy, be any different were at the time they are. Actually I meet you
I don't know if propaganda is the right term, but in all of the promotional materials, for the first pay per view, they did. They were like exhibiting the glories of Saudi Arabia and just extolling the virtues of the country like in the context of wrestling, so that was a little bit different. They managed to back a lot of that in the in the subsequent events, and I can only assume their related. What I said, when I say how they resolved it didn't resolve it. They discussions, they kept going. I definitely they just kept going see. Tc is Rashid loss. What said Jack I mean this in the hardest thing than delighted that big companies, like the NBA, like deputy, had to deal with her one of the things have to deal with in them. In the you know, curry year in the modern age is kind of b is publicly acknowledged their reliance on in owed nefarious foreign countries- have hidden ahead
that's a lot of the money that they did, that the day process comes from questionable places and but, at the end of the day, the monies for almost always gonna win out. Here, let's talk about smack down prepared on Friday and Fox, I was there with Ben Sentence Future Pro. Sir, you were there with your press box, partner, bronchitis and render Brown who never been alive. Wrestling about the bonuses were. Of the of the night, were I like going to our rustling of it that same reason? Why, annex two years so much fun? They inequity paper views which are so shorter, where you have these things were you show up? There's energy two hours, and then it's over. That was great combined. Considering we both light tourism area, which I think is still going. We left the rest of it still going, it ended up, said Cyrus like that, it was unbelievers, we'll see the rock again do in his
especially when he's been on such auto pilot on bottlers, the less easy, is driving around a car talking. Sadly, going down variation and it was He became the rock again was like oh yeah, you're, the best. That's ever done this and to see at their Becky Ledge parent, carbon, and he's just so much better than everybody they have. I gets no contest that was cool. And then I d d ladder Madge regime, a man, verses, Owens, Kevin Owens was great, ending, not so great. They ended Kofi Kingston rain and five seconds there was an abrupt funny. My son was cackling That was hilarious, TAT Kofi Kingston, his title Reign, was that in two seconds by then the big surprise, Kane Velasquez comes out which play greater. We can see that you are saying, and I'm sure in the room, probably two thirds of the people. No idea, who was sure and it was
weird wet and the show ultimate that, while we are thoughts on the show itself and what it means for the business gone for it on the other, it was a really good show. I mean a lot of people. Had you know, various you don't need to pick with the production or even up until the last minute, but you're right, and that you are a two hour shows is, is always a lot of fun. You don't get bogged down in the video packages, unlike in house commercials and everything like that. In the end, it does. Or to feel more like alive event. As you know, the pace keeps going any no little and a lot of what they showed was ill. I mean a lot of the event out their Owens Mc Man Match and in the end, the rock saying it was kind of just like a welcome a brief introduction to dvd for those uninitiated the current product. Here they probably through a lot of the big stars in the multi person tag matches in this kind of it. Let you,
while the things our going on the status quo and then then lumberjack match they brought it back for the eighties. Just yet forty people outside for no reason absolutely and end it was at midnight. I thought even that even the stuff that sort of silly was was fine and fun, and you know the bidding ending, like you say, with Kofi kings in Brok listener I mean if your. If, if if this is the whole show, is a sort of in our greatest heads of current wrestling, they certainly went in the wheel house just pulled out the old trusty, what the fuck ending with, where I can say that the non causing version daddy ass, he s ending with with with Brok Listener, which is Vincent Man's favorite, go to move now ever since, ever since listener beat the undertaker, I thing Little Vinci's, favorite movies, just to have
Brok listener beat somebody in a way that just beggars, belief, yeah and I'm glad you're been was laughing he's. I guess he's that the target audience or you know a future W B executive, maybe both if I say that experts for bed that he is cackle his eye out the carefully they did that yeah me hold their data. They gave them. Basically, the S Sd Jones Wrestle mania. One ending yeah I mean that we always mean people like me, will sit here and try to like a man gin, ways in which they can justify it in the future. By giving Kofi, if you know a future shot and which you better and whatever, but really I mean this, was it's really hard this in any way other than a move by you made a move by you know: Debbie, have you and by you know the new Fox powers that be in in other that are working with them. The sort of capitalize on the real sports audience that Brok listener and now came the last guys can bring to deputy
He who knows who knows how? I know what I mean. It's apparently they're, gonna fight this Saudi Arabia event later this month, so that I don't know if Velasquez Gonna stay and long term. You does can very interest in being a pro Ressler Minos. He's trained in his very is pretty good, shockingly good yeah, but I mean the whole thing is feels like further for the die hard wrestling fans. It was a little bit. It was a little bit disheartening, not only because Kofi Kings and what sort of a dire in our favorite of the dire addressing thanking you need, but also because any time you bring somebody in for another sporty really feels like you know. It feels like the w e exacts or whoever is is, is care more about the potential new, fanned the fans in their night after night out, yeah there's a desperation to it. I agree it and he was such a good story, but I feel like I think we you mention this to me- fires that mythic I think I agree with you. I do think there heading towards these two,
Erle Universes, where foxes hit the bigger deeds and then Raw USA is more the coffee, Kingston Ricochet type guys. And it was the more athletic side- would be my guest southern apply. This well then mean that listening Fire Fox. If that, if my theory is re me Fox, will still have you know what canny, ricochet or Buddy Murphy also type characters on to sort of a different. How how much bigger a the your deeds are that's about it, but I do but yeah any. I thinks it aspires with Paul Heymann running Raw and put him in being a very kind of canny adepts backstage operator and also was just sort of a different. You know it s been indifferent playbook coming from the smack down fox side of things, I think we could see to leg very divergent.
Rosters and this sort of thing were, I mean in the past. You know it's it's kind of bin. The reverse smacked sounds kind of is, has traditionally been the home of like good, old fashioned wrestling between the two shows and Robin more of the goods and glamour that might kind of flip and into a real extreme. I thank of its if it. If, if my theories, cracked means just because you know these are the mean fox- is a very specific or a very different audience than the one there used to playing to release are gonna, be hoping to attract a different audience and I think, what's left could be a very of a very you know. Let's say, die hard wrestling Fan Eden on on raw, but will see also you and I both thought. We love the fate of the W W B on facts for cover every since Burma sick, as I thought they would be able he's forbore to really promoted in awe of these ways that we're both smart and incredibly awkward and ITALY. After what I was hoping for a week when we had Becky Lunch
adding promos Terry Bradshaw, roman reins on the Thursday diet. Nfl set with Michael stray hand just awkwardly interview in them and all standing around. You know of nothing more than a good awkward integration is really my wheel has, but Fox is obviously we. We really invested their site and they are using it as a way to promote other other staff and their basically saying we, garlic, we have Thursday football. We have Friday smack down. Saturday, their college football and they had their college football crew, including my buddy, Rob Stone First row: China get summit, action and then Sunday, football games, and this is this they got lead that they feel like they're they're, just gonna What the hell out of in wrestling weirdly makes sense in that group, but I think it's out of all the networks. This had to be the network right
oh yeah, I mean this is the only. I feel it in some way. This is the only network that there would have, you know, can have the guts to do it, but also you know that that has I mean just let me Its foxy know me the dna of it makes sense. It makes you exactly, I'm glad that I'm glad that they had robbed soon there in the front row, so Michael call could literally be looking over his shoulder Adam the guy who might be taking his job Sunday, and I don't have any inside information on that, but I think that that will be I would be ass, ending and keep an eye on why rota it's my red Sox book, rob The wedding was in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania, and this is of twenty years ago. I think it was the same week. I'm Pedro struck out seventeen Yankees in September maintenance. And it was during the height of the ex second generation, with their cross shop. And we were just doing it all weekend as weird wrestling jokes, the entire weekend, I even like one.
In the church wake. There is an urgent- and I remember I pick pick that the earth and did like the undertaker thing like of adjacent areas. The height of guys in there lay twenties just making wrestling jokes like just four, because it was like who can tap there, s a joke and all led to at night after the wedding and the holiday- and I think it was there is this Ban playing and our friend camp did the second thing at one of our friends in the and I thought it was at him and jump at The thing and jumped em in we almost had like a hard core rumble and how they can best Secondly- and this is stones wedding. So my point, Einstein real wrestling- fear is actually happen. We almost I'd like a real de acts fuelled bra. It all day. I would have I just by government not to get punch to say my I ever yeah I've. I've heard a fond memory of my friends younger brother, doing the crash shop as you cross. The graduation state I just
even remember me. I can't even imagine what would happen if someone tried to do that in twenty nine Tom. I believe this should be a documentary of everybody's favorite. Crotch chop story from nineteen anytime it was a thing it wasn't there. It was really a thing. I mean it's, it's it's funny, it's! It was like Austin, three hundred and sixteen shirts and like and making a neck strap on your crotch, where the two biggest signs of WWE, like pop culture, influence pretty wild. So I called it it s because we decide a couple weeks ago that the mass me There should be an Friday. We felt like I write this new wrestling weekly wrestling cycle is, can be so different. What is the best I ever rising package, where I could do it on Friday, leading into the fact that now we just exe, in the wake of this. When I got that is actually completely the wrong day, it should be on Tuesday, coming off smack down in the paper view leading into this other stuff through I've been this method. Tell people what we talk about in the phone is the
since calendar is so goofy now, where there's just the latter we're having paper now it seems like every four weeks, even sometimes even frequently that, but now a dubious gonna have paper views to We have a w against the acts on Wednesday night. We have wrought Monday nights Spectre I'm frightened aids. Are we heading? We passing some invisible tipping point of having too much wrestling content because it feels like were there I mean yeah, it's it's it's a hypothetical tipping point. I do think that, having weirdly having smacked down fridays, you know it opens up your week to getting make some decisions about what you're going to give your time to amuse are very different, obviously different, audiences. Third, that that every that every
oh, is pointing at Windsor Nights going to be a lot of fun with annex ii in and a w. I think just because the competition is gonna, keep us engaged and I think the newness and freshness of a w and the sort of I mean it s the roots of freshness of annex ii. You know that that that's a lot of the real vital talent and for a rustling is on those two shows, but the competition that thing
we're going to keep his engaged in Friday night. You know I mean who knows how it's going to shake out, but it sure feels like with with Fox foxes backing that that smack down is going to be. You know the sort of a show, all the sudden for four w w e, so no, where exactly that leaves raw and in the pecking order. But you know I wouldn't mind having them some Monday nights with the family instead of sitting in front of the tv watching wrestling, and then you can kind of catch up with thing. I say I guess what it does. Is it so much content that itself that you're gonna be forced to hunt impact through you to four pieces of it for the highlights. You know just keep up on social media and just be no watching year, whatever. Whatever way you watch tv now with this sort of remote control in your hand, a fast forward through staff and it's gonna be,
come on there and Debbie, W e and and and even on a w debt to keep us from hidden the fast forward. Well, in football did this: it was kind of like a man morph above another day, ok, fancying gamma. Let's go wrestling at saga. You now The priorities of the three hour, ROZ, probably last on my list. It's interesting though, but that a w and ex teething, my son, was. Day Debbie. I think he is the quintessential wrestling audience raid right, the eleven year old who's on the trampling attacking his six foot, panda undoing resident This is this is who that who their bank account, and once once Ex T wedding and say W. He was out on aid area is like screw. Those guys he's all right, Next, the aegis, loves annex tee, so I'll be inserted that place out. I know a w killed them on the M on the ratings
but it was also the launch of the shows the third week of any future. Some mistake, but date Annex III is really bout. It has really build some equity with younger fans upon their twenties, which we feel rather mania. That was a more fun paper view them as a mania air. Yet
in that way. For a little while I mean that's, that's the diehard fans, a kind of fans are going to travel to go to Romania would probably you know or when they get there, the more excited about the in exile, question and part of that's the talent. You know I mean these are these are, but you know, sort of the in Iraq wrestlers that that people, the other than that the hard core fans sort of follow. You know that event by event and finishes in various ways, but it's also just the booking interpolations running that show in books it like an old school wrestling territory and yeah, I mean part of a part of the part of the appeal. Was it he was able to you know we have had it wasn't trying to fill up five hours a week, and I mean is a relatively small show and you can kind of focus on the couple of feuds that really mattered and and and build those slowly and methodically bit, but regardless
the storytelling is, you know it felt a lot more fulfilling and a lot more coherent, a lot of ways. So I think it's going to be tough for them to do two hours every week. Just like I think it's going to be tough, really tough for aw cuz. They had their roster is not deep enough now and you know, and when your big reveal on your first show. As I go, my god that's Jack swagger. He was the forty nine most important wrestler seven years ago. That's that's that really make an huge splash all due respect, Jack Swagger, whose diseased, I think I'll be back there is a here with a beard with his what's his real name: Jack Agar, Jake Agar, Jake Hager. I think he's better that way, but but yeah they need a lot more guys and even like annex II grabbing female or a thousand things like the return fin dealer, who is always what am I sense regards and never felt like he got his total kind of push and Debbie at her to a scenario. But
yeah. I got a universe of the first, the universal championship and then immediately got her. I mean that in that, and that can be everything in a progressive career, especially that we'd have you eat before a w knows relatively little competition, every state side, and- and so you know it's it it if your your career can be I can feel a bit sick all the time, but yeah Finn Balor's over there in Nxt, and they were looking for and they were specifically targeting like one fairly big name from the main roster to bring down, and he just would have lined up perfectly. You know coming back off a little bit of time off and and and being able to surprise everybody and- and he know he spent some time in the next to you. So he's got the admiration of the fans
they're in Florida, that that could be really Google. It remains to be seen. I guess how big of a big of a you know how meaningful he is too ratings, but it sure does make it feel, like more part of you, no more of a real part of the the fabric of the. U know W, B universe and- and- and I am- I am looking forward to see what they do- I mean I've. Some I have some, you know there's the annexed. He who I mean men and women who are just among my very very favorite, so it's you know it. I M excited to see how that plays out, while Ben summits the so excited to Massa chap us back. That was I going to his favorite their day. Actually you, when Reza forests are, they might actually have more recipes that my son legs, then the Debbie does. If you really like your top eight, I think he would probably pick the top eight, but he just like that's our wrestling more. You know- and I think you could even further back than show where the first hour of it probably what eleven minutes a wrestling- and it was
more promos in bits in interviews- and he just wants to see guys fly off the rope dune flaps in all kinds of stuff. I think the only woman's wrestler he loves. Baculus me, that's a bride, you think he's in love with backyard should supervise, probably a piece of that we were. By her and then on Sunday night and he almost at a stroke but the one, Russia that is just spectacular and I think, as a real case for the goat fur woman's wrestling and miss probably thought that limit, but I really think it spent cemented Charlotte flared gets better and better and she's the one, when's rests are in person. That is really breathtaking, like that back for, if she does off the top roper to multiple people
is well known that the fine moves anybody has I'm just so impressed by air. I think she continues to improve yeah she's, really spectacular. I mean, I think, part of having she she's, oh she's, a little bit hamstrung just because she is so much more physical force than a lot of the people that she's in the ring with yeah too weak basis. You know it would be interesting to see her and you know the accompany full of of her physical equals of its never gonna hath. It's not happen, but I mean there are either there's some robed there's some bangers coming out. Man, I mean, like you, know, Shanna Baisers down there. See that really would be a really fun match up, and then you know Tony store. Maria Ripley rewritten I was and, moreover, a as close to shout stature, but an yoshi arrives down there to mean that that the developmental system is loaded with women who are going to be have the potential be night stars, so you know what do you think? It's crazy that reflect as one of the four
for us as ever, and I think some people make the cases the best utter how about it. I really have to look at everything. He's definitely in the conversation and his daughter is doubt the best women's rights are about time. In my opinion, that can imagine if Michael Jordan, his daughter, was just easily the best part. The double NBA right now that we like fucking crazy, yes, even Michael because Michael Jordan was a free communings. Rick flare was a freak and a lot of ways, but nobody would have begged him to be like He wasn't like ricochet basher he's. My like Larry is more like Larry Bird yeah Libya, words are, there was the greatest ever need be like well, and I am sure she learned a lot it bit, but that would be if Leary Birds daughter turned out to be. You know a complete and utter unmet. I mean it's, it's crazy. That really I mean I can imagine Rick flare. I guess what I'm saying that his daughter would be like the most brilliant wrestler vault it shocking that, like his daughter, is like the female Brok Lester, I hate it.
Not too seriously landmark, she's the best advice, expressions add carrying herself in the ring, a kind of owning the stadium. I think one of these he's with what dressing when you go see in person, is the command of the room, just as in their cause, they're not is physically imposing. I give him confusion on Friday night. The two people that walked in and you're just saying oh yeah their men. To do this, where the rock and break Wessner blacklist comes out with about this before when you're in the arena- and he comes out you feel like you're and Rome in the now. Whenever, wherever century gladiator he's about to leg, wrestler Tiger, you now see, he just doesn't seem, like the other guys, and I think the rock was like that to an essay day and Charlotte out of other women is probably the case This too, that other than maybe now Ajax, because when she comes out she's fiscally imposing for budgetary reasons, but but yes, Charlotte, there's a command
commander the room with her that definitely you can feel in Seventeen thousand see stadium, as does my feet. Yeah I know, I love that cheese and in the big robes and everything else that she does. She say great yeah me sheet, accentuates it and its and yeah me here. You definitely right she can. She can Philip and others bigger and is in a way that its really tough to, although you know, Becky launches a much smaller in stature bit, but in it you mean she didn't feel out of place standing X, the rod out of times bigger than her and then in the ring. It opened up to show you, Sweden Charlotte Flare Shoemaker, who NAFTA Now you were You were when we took it. Arrests in that time, not everything when their jumped out now you later, you say where's, the doktor, and I respect you said whose both legislative tat, if you talk to the darker mental most likely to be at the darkroom ear, but that's why you later she's your people, sure she got up Alice cap of wealth, who's the tapie or less this event.
Have Kyle and they are the mass man show he give his list now. You're welcome any time better be grace year. Becky lead I'll be in citizens, see how her next couple years ago, because ultimately the the history of dressing would tell us that at least a chunk of the wrestling fan base will turn on her at some point, because she's so popular, but just as well. Can wrestling for more than two years. Its name me. Anybody who's been popular from where that paper of more than two years. Where there's that that fact that backlash in people turn so where's that are by their very nature.
They turned us in he'll before that could have been right, saves popular Morton the couple years, but but you're right I mean, I think that that's that's a really. That's that's the right thing. I will say in her defence that she, by the skin of routine, made it through what would have turned the audience on anybody else which was like coming out openly and in the story line with her real life engagement to South Rawlins, amid the right that, like having your two biggest baby faces The rabbit revealed that they are in a permanent relationship is like boom material women. That's like there's nothing that should turn the crowd on you and let you know more than more than that and end in both of them sort of made it through and hurt her in particular. So you know maybe she's, maybe she's a little bit more bulletproof and then then some people, what are they doing? Wrestlings, never really been in a situation like this, with a real life couple that also double as two of the five biggest ours have, Oh has that happen. Before I mean I don't owe to the fire
the star is no, I mean not not female ressler, I'm trying to think of there's an example. It's never bathing like this. I mean macho man Miss Elizabeth. She was a wrestling but Miss Elizabeth Eliza, huge star, a god of the eighties made, but eight they came in together ass, yet that summit, but am aware they became rarely get storylines out of them that a few storylines at let's just say have that age were sure, but I think in this case from a wrestling standpoint. There is seems like there's a lot. They could do this, but I bet it. Maybe they don't want to work together. Yeah they. I think I think I think it's too, I think, would be wise to keep my part, especially because, like it's not I mean I guess you can exploit it when its necessary, but leg. You know resting fans. No, it tat. No, no that's happening, and I got it for some reason just to bring it into the them in those. It's one aspect of real life that, like we're the wrestling fancies, don't feel the need to see translate over into the ring. I think,
you know, I don't know it just it just feels a little bit off for whatever reason down on this relationship, I can feel I can hear the advice you know like it. You don't, I think, dating. I think they taught you time their wrestling history. I think that I mean this isn't a direct parallel, but there's one of the really great things, especially if you're w we fan is that having those two and relationship makes it makes you feel more comfortable. The dope stick around for the long term, it it's like it's like when they old wrestling promoters used to get. To try to get restless marry their daughters to make before they make an champion. You know they would stay, but now I think I e listen. I want my favorite wrestlers to find happiness, it's one thing to add a wrestlers of my childhood of your childhood. Very very most of those did most of those duties did not find a happiness, and I- and I was really one nothing but the best for for the rest of this generation honestly and end up in a most of these wrestlers now and says, runs back. You enter examples of this. They grew up
big wrestling fans. Yeah will mean an end not like do not football players who blew their knees. I always make this point but like these are these folks, like us and and and I want them to succeed, and I want them to be happy folks, like Ben Timmins, ten years from now absolutes, by on the chance to get a job, Shoemaker Press backs Tuesday Friday, its ban on fire lately, good Lord knows, we were worried about twice a week with this work and there's more than enough for you to talk about twice a week is perceived Vietnam TWAIN Twenty and then the mast man show what you're doing this week on Thursday special guest. I once Will it and then we're moving at a Tuesday and that's gonna, be too will go up late, Tuesday night heading into this weird new rests encounter we have was the ally, alas, do shoemaker you're the basket document thanks man is going to be here. Thanks to Jays again thanks to David Shoemaker, thanks to
hypocritical, get to go to secure doc, I'm slash bs thanks to square the company them little weight squared credit card readers decimate pretty much you need to run and grow any kind of business. Things like point of sale, payroll, online stores, invoicing and more see how square can take a bit. From square one to whatever's next at square doc. I'm sorry go slash, be ass, don't forget about the real it was rumoured the titans it's already up and we'll be back on Thursday, one more Pakistan you said: Priscilla Podcast is really get right. Fine, it's weird! You wanted it. You got it. We are what says weird way: this year. Reseller I've been pushing him to do wednesdays and finally, he's he's thirty weird. When says ethnic becomes, a thank hash weird wednesdays. Back That being said, there is the internet
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Transcript generated on 2020-04-24.