« The Bill Simmons Podcast

Inside the Evolution of ESPN With Jim Miller and Bryan Curtis (Ep. 237)

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons sits down with editor-at-large Bryan Curtis and New York Times best-selling author Jim Miller to discuss the shake-ups at ESPN (02:30), whether there is a business problem or a content problem (05:30), how the network has approached digital content (14:00), the deals with the NBA, MLB, and the NFL (25:30), the acquisition of Adrian Wojnarowski (40:30), 30 for 30 (54:30), and the demise of Grantland (66:00).
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Today's observe the bill summits back ass brightly by seeking, are presenting sponsor the easiest way to shop for the best ticket states to their revolutionary rating system. You seeking Jamila, I dont man if you eat, I that's good for your first time. That means you get ten hours, our baseball tickets. First timing is seeking to seize promo code, Bs M o b download the seeking to decorate seeking their com. Sobriety by house of carbs our new smash it food pack cast I went on the second episode, nobody buddy, we talked meatballs. We talk tat dogs, we jaws. We talked what's the best Vegas enter good times. People like this back ass, subscribe to it. Now speaking subscriptions we're done with game thrones binge mood. It almost killed, Mally Ruben, You saw the office brand, you have seen in the last couple months. Here we have the release, all only lead handles the community S revive Mallory. They tape sixty episodes.
In like two months, it's finally downward post in the last five later this week, people love this path to subscribe to, and I can catch outbreak for the game through he comes back Sunday night and after it's done, you can go and twitter go on at ringer and watch our talk, the Thrones Post Gabriel, What are you doing in my big? It was always a shared cultural gap. I never seen an episode really my dad. Thanks to this benchmark pike S watch. Sixty episodes in two weeks now he's retired why shouldn't as Ipad, but he did sixty episodes in two weeks and end users sucked in do you get when you get sucked in your bedroom anyway, I talk the Thrones Twitter Sunday night coming up James Andrew Miller, Brian Curtis. We're going to talk media is paying a whole bunch of stuff
first project, the three men the ringers editor large bronchitis, Jamila, author of CS the best, so he s p m but bestseller Es in our history, with timescales, best seller- I don't away up to now. We get you work amount of podcast for down the road. The unionist right origins do that what is got origins YAP going to look at beginnings of things in movies, televisions, ports?
sick relationships. We wanted tug ESPN lots of stuff. Foregoing has been going on in two thousand seventeen I for I read stuff. I've heard some of the stuff. I made a mistake: I went, I did at the Vocs conference and got asked any is being question and in three minutes open. Pandora S box. For about forty different conversations. I should just shut my math pussy owed women's organisations. Were you when you think you'll be not asked the european question? Is there one? I think it's my whole life rain. I think so until the bitter end, I think I'll be like sixty eight is panel not even exist anywhere to be some sort of video on demand. China Haven't you easily a tattoo yeah, it's a tattoo, hey man. I worked there for fourteen years but anyway we there's so much going on. I haven't been totally happy with
With the analysis of it, so that we could do that now, ok, so, first of all they cleaned house skipper finally has an inner circle. John skipper, who took over basically into one thousand and twelve. Now he has a new inner circle in place. Connor show who I create a thirty thirty with he's in charge of content. Burke Magnus is in charge of
scheduling and then just in Canada is in charge of the business side. And that's it that's the new inner circle. Why did it take five years for this to happen? I thinking in part, because when skipper took the job, I really believe he thought that he can continue to be to do his old job as well, which was the head of content for through all its what he loves yeah. It's signal its. What is best that and therefore I don't think he wanted to let go of it, and so that combination, I think, was really powerful. You know he tells a story about how, before he became president of Estonia to go to Disney enjoys forget his idea and they will look and then they have to call theirs is he was had a content, but they didn't. You know there's this guy Johns Governor the gay agenda whatever and the day that the first time he went to Disney after becoming president, he pulled up to the boot and make a commodity, Mr Skinner and
it right away. Yeah like there's a big difference between being president of ESPN and everything else, and I think that I don't skippers, not naive, but I don't think he appreciated it. So I think that one of the things happen, particularly during the first two years, was You are looking at any is paean organizational where he thought oh yeah, but now, Mr President, like, if I told you like how the place was operating in the directory ports and the fact that you know everybody state, basically like you, think that in a bone, Eimer was still running at some guys come. Become presently they just. They know what they want to do they clean ass. They change everything. He didn't do that. What was your take from afar breath? They agree with what Jim said, but assets like add. We think this is how much of a european right now is a business problem and how much is a content problem and what we know how to those two things by being disengaged Jim's. Take on that few had to pick right now give percentages. What are you
Those two are for those two things. I think it's probably more business problem because the fifteen- freeze changing so fast. The technology is, is a wild card and distribution is just a minefield for them. So That is one of the reasons why you know people ask me: God forbid, skipper got hit by a bus tomorrow which those three takes over, I think just an as yet the inside laying because of so many other challenges the future is is in his pile, but that's not to say the content is an important, but I guess Victor business on integration. It is keeping them up a night, so I was the closest skipper, probably online through two thousand thirteen, and when he got the job, which was the town two thousand. Somebody really didn't get it through the summer. Two thousand and twelve. A boat and was staying he was like a liaised Herman yeah. They kind of they created new title four George
well, don't you see what kind of done that when George became president see Bernstein, but then he laughed and was just kind of vacant and then so they put him in and its end skipper was in a sense. This is gonna, be great. It's good everybody e, it seem weird that he, he wasn't Gunnar replace himself, and that is, as it was happening was watching a gun. See, you're gonna do Georgia's job, which Georgia's job is. Basically, you fly everywhere, you're an airplane all the time you gonna Burbank for meeting every week, you just immersed in the business side, but then also try to do the content job and the thing was skipper and defend the end. The death on this is greater content, a great taste, I would say he's had the best taste of anybody who ran ESPN the stuff that he did especially firm away to two thousand twelve was just, lights out really smart, really forward. Thinking now, I said he's doing this
it's a little like in the NBA when people are coaching and they're the GM at the same time, and you just can't like doc, rivers, you just can't do both jobs, so we at we all thought. While he's going to know what he'll he'll figure out, who is number two is it'll happen, and then six months past nine months, past and twelve months past and it became clear, was bullpen by committee, and I think that was his biggest mistake. I think he thought these direct reports that he had, which is like John Posner. All these people could just kind of collectively do his job and it's wrong. You need somebody who has the taste who has who's the tastes maker and the content maker. Basically,
Well, that's when the wheels came off, I think there's another component, which were we were just worth mentioning, which is ESPN Bristol. It's like a biosphere, sometime, yeah and so after becoming president skipper also had the possibility, God forbid, of looking out I'd that current ESPN Ecosystem writers, a lot of really talented content, people out there You know you may want to say. I think I got as shake the culture up, and I think that you know we have at least have a voice in here. That's different, then what we ve been saying to each other around me that he has been, for thirty plus years, forwarded to that point, totally resistant to go outside. Stop that's, but oh was the only time they went got Joan Lynch Conner Jamie Horowitz
Kevin wildly, I'm a wildman already been there, but that was in my time remember like new blood liqueur. These people, where we could have been saying we could have in sit around here. Thinking for you know, is amazing way when skipper became president, he really brought other its interim. You got you know this one from here. This one from Here- and you know it's just a whole different kind of mix. But. He certainly didn't do that at all. In fact, he resisted it. So there's two thirds for this brain Jim and I have to inside information on a mission to sue. You think forget theory. One is skipper, genuinely thought if he had the bullet them by committee, an he and he could do, but jobs and he could kind of flooded and now that it would base, could be as good as it was. Theory. To is the survivor tv show type of mentality earth. If I, if I know my number two that becomes my successor and
If, for whatever reason things don't go well, then it becomes that guy who's or that girl whose looming behind me any now there was never that person, so he basically made it impossible for him not to be believed guy, because there was no successor and play what do you believe? I think that's what I like the second theory, just from afar, think that sort of fascinating it. Also, though, can't you that and say, let's see, let's give people time and see who comes out who comes out of the crowd re use only with that, but we knew who all the people were. None of them all of them were kind of promoted. As high as they should have banned, or maybe even one spot to high. So there's! No. There was no next. Who didn't you wouldn't bet I about but didn't go so this guy
presided over a movie that one and ask her there's something an unprecedented he s been history of it was unthinkable a couple years ago. Russia is being would take home and academic work. So who that that guy looks good that guy? That guy It's that gets the big price right now is to a certain logic in that year, but I'm in this too, in at the end of early worrying, but in two thousand and twelve, the eleventh skip. It is interesting to me. Is great peacetime general, in making money hand over fist right, thirty, four thirty grand lent You know we're making money. We can say that was a vacant bodies. I ever fan the big they make up when we're when we have money to spend. We do this, we have this. We can invest quality content right, not not silly stuff, but thirty. Four thirty grand things people remember wartime, General John skipper: when money gets tighter, when you have to lay people off, is he that guy? What do you think about that Jim buffer?
he is that guy, because we got blinder people lesson round and base financing is a good it being that guy. I think he's better than some people would have predicted because he hail. Fellow well met, I mean he's he's not a he's, not a suit he's, not a you know: pencil pushing numbers guy. He is a very collegial guy and I think that I do believe that it took a lot out of them, the three hundred and and the hundred he doesn't like that they're going to tear their executives to live for that kind of stuff. So I think he was equal to the challenge of that, but that's not to say that the other scenario doesn't exist. Look for the last five years of rain there. I think it's the first time since one thousand nine hundred and eighty three, where ESPN
a successor inside and you're gonna. Do it or even even an abundance of several of them to choose from, but he really really secured himself that top perch in a way that I think- and I think anybody had I think part of what makes the european story so fast and in this decade is It follows a lot of the same beats when you look in the past companies that, when things turn for them They just had. No idea was gonna turn because things have been going on for so long, the business model and everything and it has been you'd, been lights out, perfect and when you have that for a while, your mentality becomes. How do we keep this? How do we keep this formula instead of thinking? this farm is gonna change. We need to do now. Let's look at the church. But we need to be seven moves ahead. They were never seven Mossad there always behind and debate.
Biggest things I noticed two thousand limited as twelve. Two thousand thirteen you know technology was, I thought, what they the biggest thing they should have invested in, and you know their mentality was. We have to protect Sportscenter. How do we fix Sportscenter? Well, let's build the giant set, what spilled the state of the art hundred fifty million dollar settlers double down on how it looks and in they weren't thinking about things like what? If every is digital. On ten years, we in our website, in two thousand thirteen fourteen first took it- would take us like a year to redesign everything, cuz they're outsourcing, so much of it, but even when we had like thirty thirty, things like that when we run them on, is peanuts com. This the videos would freeze and we have all these internal discussions about these videos of freezing
Daddy and hates this. They can. We just put these on Youtube and would have our shores are ground things any the stuff we were doing and they want to put their money too, because Harder saw the ads like nano. We gotta keep. Women has been a common like you, but when there has been a candidate freeze and people don't watch them and it was just to me the technology was the big mess, because ESPN has that com should it become Sportscenter and should become the fuel of all the stuff, they innovated with another belatedly doing it because they bought into Bam, let they get it now. I feel like they should examine into doesn't twelve, I mean look, I can conduct or quit on the digital center. I do think that the digital Centre in Vienna, because sports and it was such a big part of it in the big stage and everything else it
does a lot of oxygen. It does deliver for them a lot of solutions for digital operations, hence its name. Yet you know as well as made life a lot easier for them and things a lot more efficient. Having said that, but they went through the three d experiment which is in a quite deleterious to the bottom. Tat was a rare, last Forebode murmur, who, I think, is a brilliant and yet we must offer them. There's e g o here who's, who was magnificent, had one of the great city of careers ever, but I do think that look
they saw a digital in certain ways and then they started to to move. There were many times that they were in front, but there were many times that they were behind, and I think that when things that happen in two thousand fifteen two thousand sixteen is there were so glad to have escaped the Washington lobbyists thing on our part that they didn't realize about the cord cutting, particularly with the young generation and even the notion of like skinnier bundles, that I think, look thirteen million households over appearing over the past several years. Losing knows that that was tough, and I think that anything like that in mind. It amazes me as we as they poverty is a terrible word. We keep hearing lately to the future yeah how much like when you watch. If you watch, he has been all day which nobody really does, but if you did it somewhat James show how much twitter programmes every show like a funny like years. His Thompson dancing and that's on the jump and that's on the six and that's on coordination and that's on this in its lake there,
doing on television. What we're all doing our desks here, the ringer, which is here some funny on, What are we write about it to react to it? You were posted whereas you lack Tirewomen jokes about yes lack about it that actually Bristol doing the Bristol Car wash right right with a piece of not with deck Prescott that they do that too, but with a piece of weird internet content, and it just filters through because it's like we know, people are watching television. We know younger people want utopian like they used to. So how can we weirdly reacted, I think, that's fascinating me. People don't believe me on this, but in two thousand thirteen. They had no idea the cord cutting was coming leg literally none there is no hint of it Darrell attitude and in two thousand thirteen was what would that was the year they did Oberman rain or that today's important port, Tina belief and try to remember now say was later than thirteen, but
for it was formerly thirteen. It was like flexing your muscles were just Reagan, adding thirteen was the biggest revenue year they had in the biggest profit they made all that stuff. Then, when Fox came fourteen of us, then it became oh, how their fox challenges challenges us they do was a weird moment, though I think look, the moat was pretty big. Vs giver had gone out and spent a ton of money a close to twenty seven billion dollars over cod football engineered longer deals in anybody ever done the business I mean you can have a bigger moat at that point, so I mean I think, it's easy to say this in Monday morning quarter I said at the time I think that they overreacted to vocs one there arts RO european talent now who were enjoying garden true and salaries compared to what they used to make, because there is like even like a sniff like, oh Fox, might want them is all of a sudden
Miller, salary trouble, this idea was thirteen Think there you know, as you re right remit was, I am like Sage started, indigo to vaccinate and they did that contracts, but they had we lack. They were trying to get at that point. I mean Overman was actually not an not an expensive deal. Given. History and given what they pay other people I like, but I know for a fact they were like a real foxes. Gonna challenge us watch. Their samina was like some age. A challenge, the Yankees in two thousand to say I'll, just go get cavern. Brown men and then a year later was when the court cutting stuff started, because that summer the reigning started to go down and they would just completely phlegm expire Why is this happening because they are there? The world cup- and I remember there is this email that the person who does the analytics brothers have sent his longing email, trying to figure out what the causes were, and one of the reasons that they fear eyes was
CUP fatigue that after work up to the World CUP is paean. Views were fatigued with these people. You two time I put my money around in this email that they also is. Another possibility is that younger There is a growing right to call to our streaming services like Roca. They withdraw these things like yeah, that that was the reason actually, because your younger viewers are now judges and therefore cutting and that's ain't. Gonna funds, and I just don't think they saw any becoming. I never heard the word subs until today, two thousand fourteen used in a way like we're, losing Serbs and now is the game changer. They thought that when he did the Abbe idea, they thought the subs arena be affixed thing. I've talked about this in the past before when they started going down. As I wait where, where that it was going to stay here and
They just didn't see it now. The question is: should they have seen it? Should there be anticipated that it's a really hard thing anticipate you need somebody that is just dialed into where shits gallant more? Who was no, I mean right, like in Burbank, there's a strategic group. There there's an abundance of people looking at the industry outside of the SBA. When you look, back, I dont think a lot of people were talking about it. I'm sure there was somebody or so, but the truth is that I don't think anybody in Disney or European. Would you really think about it? I mean you got include. You got include Disney in that you know what I'm thinking about Jerry Sandwich, it's more their savage its serve. It's a damn good one. At that Jersey legs. I love their number. Forty four, the Buffalo Chicken she steak with francs redheads us. Let us demand a blue cheese dressing. We think
is, he makes it the Ringer office right we regularly. I think I was gonna day, but I do regard you personally on my own. Quite a quite often, I have two did yesterday, fantastic, the giant Jersey make Cubs got any more legendary because they can order from Jersey makes online rain attitude on you. Do it. Online Jersey makes, with ten percent of one of the best names fur of food place, a food MIKE Sieges, Canada, what it as its since ninety vivisectors makes a big power in their supply was size to order meets cheeses and fresh ledges. I spent the first thirty two years of my life and I ve been nothing more delicious and authentic EAST Coast, STAR Serbs or where they are flying, saw a ban for the squad, play office hero like I did last month order? Smarter Jersey makes online wanting a get ten percent off when you order online, a jersey makes that calm such b s getting get out get eating. A jury makes that calm such bs
When I went yesterday, somebody with plan offers Herodotus Covenant because they had like six giants there. Maybe there is hardly an I just ass. It was like a temporary aid is waiting an app but funny about doing it doing a red fer, a pack ask has you know, I think one of the problems that is fell into huge problem, they're gonna, make Europeans find their good they're, always going to make money there, just that can make as much money as it in four years ago, but they were operating like this giant Starbucks conglomerate and part, the issues they had was like with smaller stuff. How do you sell small things? How do you sell something grantline? Had you create a parking How do you deal with all these different advertisers and sponsors when you're going to leg, chevaler lay and subway in there just cut
you fifty million dollar Jack's or to undermine our checks or whatever and as part of that deal, it's like. We are your fastfood person. You can't go anywhere else. Can I go back to your previous sense, though, because he has paeonies can be fine. That's true, except, I believe that the name of the game right now forget about content, forget about quality, forget about which the it's all about Wall Street, it's all about Disney in Wall Street, ok and did Wall Street is home of what have you done for me lately right and so the reason why I think this is such a critical time for EU pianist What is the narrative? The Disney gets the state of Wall Street about growth. I it's not going to be at the rate it used to be mean for what seven years they're getting twenty percent com pounded increases. Their subsidies, yet I admit, is unrealistic. That's enough to make a Bolshevik and you get
you can never replace that you'll, never replace that, so it's like so where's it going to come from, because this is like you know in some ways you got it. You got a loan from from, like the mafia and there's like we don't care pay up, pay up, pay up pay up, but so it You can't go Bob Eiger can go on, and investor car and say this anti Europeans can be fine. We're we're fine. It's always gotta make money, that's not enough! It's like how are you not solve this problem of p of dwindling subscribers and still spending a ton of money. I mean I was shocked by the big ten deal. Everybody I mean this was after cord coming up. How do we know about? cutting and he still spent a fortune, but that's a boxing to read as follows: in for friendly, not half an hour, we gonna get my order, the big. Ready anybody, NBA videos. To one I mean these are expensive deals. There stood on the money. So I mean that's that the moment in time where I right now, which is how do you create a gross
from a mature company that literally has its best profit days, possibly behind it. So can we agree that you do the NBA deal every time you don't do any per cent of you think that action and then that those mistake now you have what first of all you have to, because you have a thousand seventeen sixty hours to play around with, and you can It's just cannot be Stephen Smith. Rare I mean so you gotta that the original strategy might someday be seen as an offensive that I have been personally sphere. Yes, the the S any European will be First Edens management the one thing that can give her did. That was grave right from the beginning. Was he just a psycho? Shapiro God love him. He wanted to develop. Shows me was trying this show in this area and skippers like ok, it's all about life, you know won't get to those things all, but he just went out on the biggest Steinbrenner ask, binds free of all time and bought of everything
so I agree with you, but I have agreed with it at the time that it made sense. I still think by the way. What what do you think the boy do you think the hemorrhaging would be if they didn't have the NBA? I mean have to the available at any lady. The existential question would be dialed up. What is this network for rife? They don't have all these games. You know that question would be louder. Romanian Diane. I can easily you in the chair leading Cambridge. If, on a Friday night right I mean you have to have the NFL, because that helps years, you're surcharges, there's no question you can't get, having box of know how is getting out of business with a unified. Never now that's it. You can't do that, and but you gotta for the NBA. Now that doesn't mean no look. We're in a quiet law, so baseball's coming up everything's coming up, does Disney say to them, though you know what you need to have that money to buy baseball. This time I see I don't give a shit about baseball ass tat. I thought when people talk about in this first law, as we discussed on the pad Brian Brian NFL Nba unit
he's getting the games you're. Getting other highlights you getting unlimited access to all the content which fuels every single show you have, and they have all these talking had shows where, if they run the highlights, and I was in the situation, may be or show neared regional bodies for pilots we're talking football. You know it helps when two people are just talking, is running- highlight we are talking about, are still photos where work and announced no photos and magnanimous just doesn't want mine. I one point: nine billion this man, that's the long form deal yeah. I didn't get to play a game, it's like they don't care, they wanted the highlights, that's that's what mattered to them and keep it The man in football franchise, but the same thing with NBA, India a little more diplomatic about being abused or footage, but the same time it's like their island there. On the court there there, in every step of the way there. Let me is the off season just as exciting determine sport, I mean: do you got all these trades and people are following you got experts, I mean you got verbal coming back to you has been because they believe in that. So
oh, yes, I so, but the baseball when it happened. I actually ramrods arguments for about an hour ago. Why don't get this wine like people? You could feel this decade was one people, just wives, their own baseball, Ivan Half billion dollars. The idea was, it was like you just watch, your own baseball team, you you're baseball team, Texas Ray the Rangers. Do are you home on a Tuesday night Watch in Kansas City verses, us, not an item clothes nobody is so is like and, as it was explained to me as I could choose our buildings it where they debased. By now it is integrated, re, literally cheese exit, honest, it fuels baseball dna now, as we found a cup yeah. Well, what happened was the IRA sends killed, killed, baseball, an ape average. I thought was really interesting. Talking about it in sports, illustrated this week raise basically like every time. A man's people watch your items, the Red sat game, ants.
Everyone's, unless in watching the nest imposed game show they don't gaudy is paying for based on. I don't care, they would. Rather here, Dennis accuracy, talk about whether Dustin Pedroia should abundant in the seventh thinning. They don't care about this big giant macro conversation about the league and I think that's what, with those five and a billion they paid for how long a year's see. I don't do that ever do that again. I think that's where they would. I think they would double down on football. Basketball college. I think they would get rid of baseball will. But here's the years the interesting question about this next round. This coming up, you don't even know who you pity against so maybe foxes and have the money. But what if Jack, Baisers Oleson decides to do something or mark Zuckerberg phase or oriented yeah Mark Zuckerberg once in all this and go deep in baseball, mean you have twitter exploring things. So it may not be the same kind of competitive landscape before you have the rates deals. Are.
We only have one based violence, yet twenty twenty one, I just don't think the baseball gone forward. I don't think it does enough for them. And I think it would be more violent, as somebody ass, maybe they'll, be anyone. I lose your valuable Emma, be network, may be a mobile network, just keeps it or maybe they'll be going to deal with like Facebook in the world or whatever. So their Miley point is at what point is Disney say you can't have everything yeah, I think we're here I mean we're at the police said that with employees rights and they They said that with employees- and I think I personally thought I was gonna happen before the big ten cause. You could start see writing and I was shocked so I think we're going to see a situation where they have to plan for football interval first and that's going to be huge and they have to engineer the Monday night for
rights coming up at the same time. She others, because how will it years that otherwise I mean an official, its twenty one for Monday night football, but it's always starts beforehand. It starts quite a bit in advance, so you will see I mean, look they already there struggling right now, this year they got a bit of a better schedule, but remember when they got money difficult, they didn't realize tat. There were to come up with more years. They not the fourth we're schedule Gaullist started. There is denied for bonnets like so now are the Monday night footballer we grew up on is like way at the bottom of the pile, and it's like its punitive on the other. Partly organ upon her she s being year after year after year by giving the absolute dreariest games on Monday night. I'm that's what it feels like when you look at that schedule. This year was a little about a little better, but it was not like going back.
Regional sunning ideal, one of the worst the Sunday that money in which one of the worst moments when a worse deal making episodes and he has been hysteria. It's like the NFL assessment has wireless so mad and realize they were so desperate. There lay which is going to give you the worst scheduled David over and over, and I think the animal was mad and if I was delighted while delighted because they got him, but they were the last ones onto the boat right over the last one to get up, we ever body else about Emmi course they were have because they sold at these, been I get which ever saw numbing, that's givers, her rent horrendously bad. Why was there ever saw able to butter up the intifada better than Eiger in both an amber? Well, first of all at that time to remember something: Eiger didn't have a job.
And so railways, how, as I was the worst nobody Eisner toward DNS he's leaving right. So it was the worst timing are offered Disney because I remembered there was a day one thousand somebody on the board leak that make Whitman was being interviewed for the job, and so it's like eyes. There's gonna go in for rumour there we're losing seven hundred million. I think a hundred twenty five million, I think on Sunday, So I we're to go in front of the board and say I think we need to do Sunday and Monday. It's a tough number was it was a pretty cheap price there right. How could it had for like Larry Julian Point something combined very cheap, but you know what I will defend eager to death on this one, because It was very, very hard, also any love, desperate heartless. They might go
as does while the lucky rabbit you got eyes while they thought they were getting Monday night schedule yeah I mean so that's another big thing, but you have to also credit ever saw, because one of the hardest thing to do is after nine being in the NFL game and not having the rights to get back in it that that was that was well played. That was what lady got back in it and he got the best schedule. So we ve been going forward. Twenty twenties is PAN as MBA. I think they double down Annetta couch for bar for sure called troops and then a bunch, french stuff. What you think you're our just Monday night on an do. They gopher I mean: can they out bid? Let's move is on Sunday afternoon, which is still son. That's two sons. Afternoon, games are the best I mean you know Sunday night so dear to me. In a clearly taught I will say it- I've been twenty twenty one. So really it starts twenty twenty twenty nineteen manner
I think some of these big ass streaming places a be ready by then You already seen at Facebook, Twitter and Amazon in the autumn. Livestock so consider sixty minutes without an affair leading consider Fox without that Sunday afternoon, game. In I mean I don't move as ever loses Bohemia sees at him in a cronan. Cbs knows what that's like they another mademoiselle worse mistaken world. By giving up the energy package in than ever, they still never gonna back. Then I give up that you give a theocracy. Nobody but the other point is: is the bidding gonna get so high that it makes it prohibitive for even yes paean to go after so if you have c, is gonna, be the first test case for this as one of the biggest
debbie me by you have see. Was they fell out there in a great this bidding war? Without these suitors, I don't think he spends gonna bid. For you have say I don't think so. I dont think foxes gonna go gigantic. All infectious, let the Champions league I visit there come back a little bit too Turner just spent on champions League that, as you have seen as infilling Turner type of thing Anyway, embassy sports is going to spend on it. She start look at adding o, whose left for this big giant rights thing that they thought there can have on the gauge as an air. Nothing shall times in their sociology. Usa may I might darker aspect, would be USA, but if it fair, write stuff doesn't go like the way people thought, I think, that's a bad sign, the other stuff. Another champions chimpanzee just went for way more than I ever thought that Turner thing. Stand by that other guy think March appears stalled. Very bullish on you have say and die,
I think it has to be his they're all companies sunk into it right, but I think he's setting. I read in turnover speech yesterday that their head of the numbers that they thought day? And I believe that at this point I am not sure, but I know the authorities are like a hundred fifty thousand pop and they have actually been doing more than, but I think the big issue for them. Is it so hard for them to keep stars you ve come Macgregor and then either he gets beat. Stops fighting? Are you tries to do a deal you have and arousing I'll send she's gets knocked out. She's gone you now, whereas the NBA they know they have Leubronn and Katy. They know they allow these people for fifteen years. Thus, a weird thing to buy into you're, not getting the best of the best stuff is gonna, be paper. If you re so you're saying I'm going. I simply taken in called for bottoms your third tier rights, or maybe your second terrorize, never really gonna. Take the good
if we want to promote you all year, I'm an ado shows about you and I'm gonna get these kind of little middle of them. You know like marking, time kind of events, but never gonna get. The big events tired I want to talk about. Is parents did the strategy, but first that game insurances, Sunday, night, HBO July, sixteenth red afterwards. Our experts will be honoured, twitter feed at Ringer in go there. I think I think twitters gonna opinion at the top of the actual twitter page to our lab recapture Red afterwards, Jason Concepcion, any Greenwell, ballet Reuben Chris ran. Maybe some celebrity guess who talk the thrones starting Senate. I watch the episode and then just go right there in without happen. These digital strategy so do not replacing Posner not suppressed. We should talk about that so cuz with somebody that was my boss for awhile and
I had a good relationship with for a while until after I got suspended, and obviously things change with me- a lot of people there. But here is out of anyone they had was the only person who at least could have a conversation about where things were going. I'm only when we? To us, CALM Valley, like three straight years in Siam, on Facebook or on these things, and he felt like stuff was happening there and I every time we went out of his way. Why doesn't he has been an officer like? Why? Wouldn't you open up this, the air instead, like opening another billion bristle. Only I'm an office here because, like Our engineering other stuff that we're doing with our what I'm saying this united the time like our website like we have now source staff. The technologies not gay, like we're just now get stuff, and all these
nears are in Silicon Valley and they just they come out and they just go there because they know they work apple. They can opt to Facebook picking up at some start a figure peace and that's where the action is any is pain was sitting now? Did you ever see that your cursor year we talked about it and he's gonna Bristow? If so much invested in the campus other stuff? I was that it was. Crazy? They didn't have just a building with a hunch people in I don't know Cooper, Tino or something and they could just grab people. I really felt gets it it's a technology, Problem is one of the things that is the real issue for he has now and you look at what we, report. This is what I wish I had said set the Vocs conference and eight, which is rare time, which report has taken his pains corner digitally in a lot of ways like there just way better at Social their way better driving traffic, their team stream app is the biz better than any is Penn as an Dave really Natalie taken their corner, but their legs
for years, ahead of wages. Ban is just with the weather thinking and he is pain as I belatedly China catch up. What's an example of the fact that they have a whole bunch of people in a room every night, watching sports and whatever happens there, just putting this digital video. That just goes out like some some movie. Clip of you know that's tied into some Clayton and three point explosions in there that clip out and a shared. You know million times in twenty four hours that has a highlight say, which is one of the best highlights I'd like to do in the game of staying there movie more that social side, which is also something Barstow's doing to where they just engagement in the eyeballs. In the end it there ever bring all the other things and ESPN Agar their website is really hard to find stuff. You know and I think that was one of the reasons they cut back on the guy
so many writers, because they are probably like. We have to move towards social mimic. The bleacher poor thing, we'll just have our signature. Deeds will have exact loan or Mona Winners than Barnard allow, and a big ass magazine people. We use the magazine, people on the thing on the website, but for the most part you got that website. Now, it's like, and videos and tweets, and vertical and vertical, but vertical Brian. I have talked about this. I feel like you're buying Moses Twitter feed here. I don't know if you're lying actual stories and maybe they'll ray you're losing order signs. Fatalism Stanley. Last Chad forward you last Henry last couple. True people, that's a fastening part about wage is its. He is a twitter asset in he does nothing seemed to he's not heat, Did his special pirate radio draft show the final one on he s, Piano Yahoo. It was a
We're in a half hour show in the plan was for him to be on three times in the flesh and four and a half hours yet, and the rest they were just show his twitter feed along the side and react to what the news he was breaking on Twitter. Just a really postmodern thing like we got this guy he's not in the flesh on our show, but he's twitter feed, which the whole world confine on its own is the content driver. The show, but if I'm Disney shareholder, I say oh wow, look it's gone in our tent retreats or whatever I was monetize its that's me: stay better emitted into the citizen, saying anything about him as rapporteur. It just saying, like it's a weird thing, to bring into your orbit, because it's not the same as somebody. Other things were talk, but on, while everything you know he's tweeting lab everything he's doing writing daily for the website right. That's just comedy rebuilds clear to them that thing that they care about is the ticker they care about. Scrolling thing in the bottom of the screen and and
Yet security were that seems an old media faint care. I know, but I think that I think that was the biggest thing I think last summer, from what I heard when was really had like just an unbelievable summaries. Like he was scooping them on every draft back before the draft and freed it came Hughes nail and allow the phrase stuff anything skippers like what the hell like, where the abuse our support this, as it clearly killing us clearly bother them and they have to run on the ticker, their running sports and are there any Peter Other and it says yeah whose Adrian words Rascal reports, over and over again, I think they're like screw this. We want that to be as periodically so what's the financial advantage. If there's not it's an ego thing, it's it's! I No, how you monetize it because, like July first they had My tv, a bunch debts Now I would use em ANA Gomes on television also shift since our internal inside these ends? And morning I mean he's alive.
More powers, emerges renown and woes needs wraps, but I didn't That was gray, is worse as well. It is not his phone and they you add Sham Shariah. His old protegee is breaking scooped cause workers on tv for ten sowed minutes. You can look at his phone and then things are fine out I don't know, I don't I don't. I don't really get it, but I gather from this standpoint that there we thinking like good streamline our website. We have Zack Weave winner, Sweet Ramona, Aristotle couple it you guys and then information and that's it. We all care about a day ass. I think it goes well. Investment, the NBA we're talking about this. How can we think that much money NBA and not have the alpha insider of the India? I would argue if you're, Spain, twelve billion on the NBA there should be room than fur marks dying. Then you have that is that's just and Chad and whatever there's a whole. That is different. I, like the internal, I don't mind the two that you have to competing forces inside. If it is it's the
if the world in the NBA so big, then as long as these guys are good at what they do, and they are why why? Why do you have to choose and why it to lose it? inexplicably, especially causing just gave Stein this huge contract last October the way in three years, not the work and they d. You know they gave Jaws Jan contract and that their pain him our people who move to Bristol because they were told to make the commitment and then they get laid off in future. I think it's I think it's genuinely bizarre and the widespread Spain to me as if they do it now can write off all these of these contracts at their pay, for some cause cost for one year and then comes off their budget going forward. I saw I sent a dozen years. Many others went anyway. Why, when your mark Steiner, Japan, he breaks the broken, honey stories. Last month I look like Edward who started this podcast that he does now all the time of all these huge gas from the cowboys and also from my wine that money has been that got. Why wasn't that money has been done before or do
we're doing what it seems like a great use of his time or do what they did with storm where you you know you, you kind of renegotiate the deal on you're, not making much is used to, but you're still part of it, and do you believe conspiracy theories about about woes, told them get of people as I personally, don't I add to that. Ok, so in the white heat of it at the moment. The day of the first day. The lay also think there was a second aims at rolling three days of horror that we all experienced on twitter, I heard from inside. He has been the worst thing, absolutely which they gotta be a worse and peeped. Just absolute belief. I heard twenty four hours ago hold back on that low, but maybe it's more complicated than that. Maybe there are
not everything is me out. You'd have certainly, like you told us time right. They wanted this NBA insider and not this NBA answer that's clearly decision, but I heard of her pull back on that. I dont think that we would save II is ok. If I come, you gotta clear, deck? I think, though, that he has been might say to itself if we're gonna say came a binary proposition, which he didn't have to be thinking. I think it's a lot more complicated. I think it's a lot more complicated than that straight than the straight story. I believe that two or decision which you didn't have to be. I think I think it's a lot more complicated. I think it's a lot more complicated than straight than the straight story. I believe that two or they made the with them and then realize that the budget was just out of control and that they configured out. Maybe Watch though I mean he has every right to say, look voting to come over and I want to be competing again. Somebody, a colleague like that I mean you, know it's different
membership after more. You know that was it. That was a very in a way. The similar wait right now, but they took him out back and now they're singing come via. I mean they think you re right, but they figured it out amongst each other and write more was like. Let's make this work together with us sat together, we're gonna make it work in that it did not work in this case it did not. There was not that combine mom, I don't even know if there was an attempt, though there that's the thing I don't want any risk. It was weird at the final who is some of the weirdest energy ever found. My life, you had Stein therein wash it Henrietta. Therefore one of the games you ads, steel and beat all like ten feet. Apart from each other, you'd be there, it was like a crazy, but I from a digital stamp I don't know about what has been done, and I just think it's a pretty big statement not to replace poseners job. That's that in itself. Here job here, a huge like digital is disappearing now, so I think that
I saw the report. I think that was the thing that really took me back a decision I think they really miss the boat on staff that I was playing when I was there, like. The east encourages own progress they were their first. They were in space they had mine. You know we agree on. We had a lot of success of our paths early, but they were insisting on putting them on pod centre and set it just floating them out all over the place, but it is she should have been a growth industry that really could have replaced the SBA radios and then I think they ever really. I ve no doubt sell it Jane they didn't know what to do with it ended in and it was a grain of sand a beach in, so it wasn't a priority. I told you this, they used to throw my podcast into their giant subway do I was like the four At a tired, you got a few invested, someone s, hearing, actual numbers percentage wise, right now you're progress or serious beyond what was that its due of ground.
I would say we may ten times as much my unpack asses grounded thing, but that this is a very basic like don't Roma, don't throw our package in your subway deal them. Let us do mid roles are things that other people are doing there where the great can we do this, but the thing is they were they'd never cared about the small potato staff, because they're always so focused on the big potato stuff, which is the big conundrum adrenaline. It was like this little booty part of its people. An skippers, you're saying I want again to be rolling stone for this generation, don't care about whatever, but then, when things start to foot there like It has made more money at cycle when I make more money because of this this and this, so what you think their attitude about undefeated has now or that that's a great question. Undefeated in five thirty
there's no way those sites make money for them. So I think you have them because you invested in them and in the end, to feed its case. There's you know, there's is real reasons why you would have a site like that. I just don't know how they profit from it because unfit especially now, like you think, like a audio and video of the two ways to really kind of generate new income for a site and undefeated like I don't think they are in pain. As at all in a substantial way, and I don't really have seen having releasing the videos from them. Either factories Baltimore odds to my two, my reading anyway, but but not in like a giant way, but both of them are really tech, heavy sites, and that's what you want the year by thirty eight costs at our man yeah, that's a baby, I can't ungrounded, so they that's weird me too, like you can afford my Stanley, you can keep doing factory in their feed it like I just under one.
Game plan that goes back to peacetime. More time to me, five thirty, it feels like peacetime acquisition, re growing we can get in on. We can get a little bit of an election thing at night. You know do and all these things, but in more time it says to funnier when you're cutting all these people from the company core people from the company an interesting fit. I'm attention, be there, I'm just saying that it feels different. You know, what's a leadership thing too, because I was there thirty eight was gonna- be based bomb politics. The two things there are great at was nay an AIDS pedigree fear. And maybe you could branch out to all sports in politics, but then when they I said it was all these different things like food and now kind of settlement or what it should have been from the start undefeated. I I store these. Can you explain the sightedness sentence, I dont totally, understand the quote: what is the ultimate mission of that site? Is it too? Is it? news is it
CS as and an entertainment its it seems like it hasn't, really figured out exactly what it is yet and I hope it does I, like some other writers have, but what the mission: what do you think the mission is? I think that, aside from the obvious and the diversity part of it, that's important discover, I also feel like he believes, there's a quality, there's a pet agree to that operation from top down that he wants to be associated with its ironic, given what happened to grant land right? That's the only thing you know you try and find consistent Caesar rash. Miles or whatever and Allison this one's so generous, and but this one's mean that's part of the harder task when you're looking at yes as a as all beat you know, We always talk about the individual grains of sand, but look every day for
last five years skipper has been making decisions yeah. He and his team have been making decisions Sometimes you understand them. Sometimes you don't. Sometimes there are things going on that. We know that they can even talk about. Rather they do sometimes it's because a particular executive has decided to go deep for that site, and you want to support that executive, even though it may not be the right financial decision. The question is: how much of that stuff can continue. Given the diminishing pile and the pressure on the bottom line, my guest, Then the faded is eventually it all. Being more player. Heavy, almost like a bit better version of pleasure being with like a lot more stuff, where, dear alight, your ear form an alliance of different prayers and do
projects with them, because that's so you'll join when Jordan Wanna talk about police shootings, re yeah, that's where he went right, something like more or less lebruns interrupt uninterrupted these little players should be in there's these little satellite industry now of players who are just bypass the meaning completely get their message out. I mean That would be where the undefeated that would be their big growth spot is how do we align with players and do different projects with them? But the question is that you know it's going to be expensive of these players always have an angle. They have some. They want to. Of staff they think stuff is worth more than it is in. My question is: are we six months away from a man, the main areas beyond where they have to figure out that they can only be in business, unprofitable enterprises and perhaps even significantly profitable enterprises right, whereas, like thirty four thirty, I don't think
Greenland now right now in two thousand eight, when we're pitch in that were made, on a very limited basis, just as a celebration almost and then, but that was a that was Fifteen million our project that really was gonna cost twenty, not dimension the marketing of the other stuff and they decide the red dejected there is no relatives in no way. No, I think I could see them doing big ass, one off doc, Projects that they could figure had a sound market like the Michael Jordan Documentary, that's been around for years, but now I mean countries are going to oversee the demise of thirty four thirty five. Thirty six thirty was never supposed to have a third series. Well, I mean, I know we're gonna talk about their near pike aspect we had thirty. Thirty ended,
the people that running Eoe at the time didn't want to come back cuz. It was their idea and shifted to this. Espn films presents was going to be the new brand. Ever I was calling in three thousand four hundred and thirty is it was like what the hell are you doing We sent them a big patch Connor and I ended two thousand and eleven here's. What series to would look like that green, that that was supposed to be the last one, and then we wanted to do one multi part series that was initially going to be Tyson and became OJ but now I feel like it sounds like a thirty five hour day has been thirty oh yeah, we talked about That would have risen from our our centre to think how it, but that's a good example of what one of the things that I think happened because skipper didn't have his right hand guy, whereas rating lady, you would all these different little satellites underneath him are fighting for terrorists,
reigns in Dublin down on the territory they already had in China, grandmother people's territory like into thousands of Karen I really want to their various shorts, and we just fell like that. Streaming had gone to the point where we could do shorts. Was eight we'd all these ideas that were good enough for thirty thirty. That could be like five minutes. Ten minutes we felt like we can be big party grandly and we want migration and the company was aligned behind it and it was like we're going to shorten this spot and we would always talk like we had done a couple shorts for Greenland to and cut out at these fish. Is discussions on. Should we can stop it? Should we just in weakening heat that corner within two years all these other people like what we want that territory, maybe that's the way it should have gone, but we just, it is paying w like. We can stop it. We could in weakening heat that corner, because all these other people we want that territory, maybe that's the way it should have gone but which is really
tool for the whole company. I'd beyond anything. Were you you just touch on something, though that I think is a real fast, any aspect of european, which is therefore a really powerful duality too. The european culture, because, its somebody attacking Bristol it can be a pretty unified place yet I mean aside from the hardware right, but aside from a couple disgruntled people which worries yours, gonna, fight like by large, it can be pretty pretty unified but if somebody is not attacking it with in its incredibly normally competitive, but sometimes too I mean they're such a sense of ownership and such competitiveness within European itself. That night, ten, they just wind up shooting themselves in the foot because, just like he has been thirty. Five is a perfect example of that, because it's me about one individual part of that culture, were that operation wanting to own it and not having you know, somebody else do it and.
For though isn't darnay legacy of you, would then be a countdown well for the west. I don't know spring of two thousand fourteen. We caught wind caught her eye caught. One of this he's been thirty five idea that basically ripped off our thirty four thirty. In memory everydayness by changing a number had retains a number of his say was thirty five documentaries about thirty five years, is piano worried over his is, but also you guys we're never contact. You are important in my view. We have found out from sales because sales was trying to sell it, and we had a friend had sailors who o Connor was. I do you guys know about this. Meanwhile, the memo head in the page, multiple topics that we are developing for thirty four there so what the hell and we had to spend all this political capital, China squash it, and that was Catherine, I do this good guy back. I caught thing, which is one of the reasons is kept to sending. I was, the bad guy, I would be the one that sent the angry bow and cannot be kind of the smoother over after, but we wish
Why should I believe, as I can you imagine, they lunches pent thirty five as we're doing thirty. Four thirty well, imagine down by uniting without about not having you guys, pardon me, I say, and we just like we, the knowledge base and all your best at it does so, but that's it example, and I really think like when I look at what's happening these be now. I can see all the seeds of it just how break in this way. We have one more thing to talk about, but by the way, that's why you're looking that's one of Connor's. I think most important challenges, which is we're. Gonna have to pick sides. Turkey was always able stratum of offences. Let's talk about proper caught that come every guy knows it's hard to find a gesture that fits Curtis poses collar. Maybe cars too tight sledge to learn the shirts too loose. I have some good news ordering a custom fit shirt has never been easier thanks to proper cloth. You know about proper, now create a custom shirts eyes in second sponsored terrorism. Questions no measure inquired
from over twenty Carstairs ten customers, five hundred fabric stars from classic the business get the stuff. You want a high quality with the absolute best quality crasser ship strangest. Eighty two hours proper class guarantees a perfect fit meaning, if you somehow don't have your shirt fit proper perfectly, they were make it for free step. We should sit on fit. Look your best proper caught their com, such bs and give could be s sake. Twenty hours on your first hearing impaired Uclaf. Circumcised BS give code bs. I want to talk about two p. Oh that got bounced last month that both for my bosses and I was shocked Marie down here and John Cousin, her closer you, you have been pretty clear, did now at the corner, and you think that's why I view they are you a hundred percent sure that's arisen? Well,
I haven't sat down with John how to look me in the face and say that I mean I've heard that firms several people and I think it I think it makes sense both for skipper. Creating that architecture and fur Posner say I want to do it. You know I, I understand both perspectives so Marie was business strategy, eventually got more and more control over stuff and eventually became the boss of EAST Penn phone, so Connor Grantland, five hundred and thirty, and eventually the end of heated and was in charge of content. There was something else too, though. She was arguably
John Skippers, the conciliatory Dicky S, job losses and his conciliatory forever job loss start again, so fading out around two thousand twelve, two thousand thirteen by the spring into that fifteen years or tired He was really had faded away. A lot of them are really Marie has become a much bigger blip on the radar, oh yeah, getting dating back to two, no twelve, even and thirteen. And he kept on giving her a lot of responsibility and so when people would try to go to him as the court of last appeals, I think it's pretty safe to say that you know he supported her myriad ways and was very very I think you know biggest painted the company. That's a big deal. Is it fair to say that she knew where all the bodies were buried quitting the grail in body. Just I mean she was
as I said Eric, I think I think skipper was probably more trains with Marie yeah, then maybe anybody else. This was a shocker this this this was a shocker and I think, tat. I think this is the one that hurt skipper the most for right of reasons. I think e number one that issue in a white male, which is basically everybody around him, now suffer Rob King bright. I do think really believe in her. I think he really in Georgia. I think there was a true friendship, and I think that that was the hardest part about this. This new organization, I think, was, was let her go. What do you think? The reasons were. Well, you know, let's start with this, I think that if you but he and I were peaceful, had reported about it, and so why are you here hello, sexist on it or that skill is being sexist about it. I don't think that was the case at all. I think that she
certainly had a portfolio and a position that it's a meritocracy and you talk about that Mean Murray had I think she had hit and MRS and I think that the hits, unfortunately, for her didn't garner alot of enough of attention from the people within the European, and I think that MRS guarded Alot, I also feel- and I know this cuz there were people who said that they did not want to report to her anymore and had a hard time working with her. Now, I'm sure she's got just like she did with Grantland. I'm sure she's got a compelling point of view herself, and I know that you really should work your butt off and she cared a lot, but I think that that was probably
legacies you know about about behind this decision. I was going to say in the misses- were very public messes with somebody somebody like that he would not be a well known executive to the outside world in the wake of the ground. Thing, of course, were in the tank on this, but she's then becomes this figure to people on twitter. Two people looking to be angry about that in a way. And he has been executive. Normally what I will say this now in our defence lucky. Another grandmaster that these were this was the deep into the pool, though I mean for someone who had been a business in the business world even though she had the job and has a responsibility when all of a sudden you let your gun walking to that Grantline Office, I mean there are very few people who would know how to play it right right the beginning. Now there were certain mistake said she made, and I know that
no them and Daniel. You think she made so that certain things worse granted, but I'm just let's just say that some of the things that she got caught up in were really there. They were tough, they they weren't hanging curves, notably they were like a reverse letter. I mean this is this was tough? We love for a long time. I think It's really hard to be a leader and be in charge, there's a leadership components being Abbas, and you look at what happened, grounds see arson, I'm gone. Nobody knows what happened with food the site is all that stuff. The way was handled just wasn't good, it's a site that I mean the ring should name exist if they, if they had handled Grantline correctly ground still be there and they would have grown and had all the people in place like we created something that ed of surpassed me being their other other pieces. Were there and
I'm not saying that the number of staff felt that in articles go, I think the staff was upset with how is handled. I think that that caused so much damage, but I mean there is aware. I feel there is a way to say that the new needed no offense you needed to say that that to the staff, because you are so strictly linked with with grand land, and there are a lot of you but they were, they were young, they did not see, away out without you being there occurred occurs. Ass I was emailing, saying: hey man, we crew. Email everybody we created this site, it's your job to protect and keep it and keep a great, and I wanted it that I wanted it to build, still be great, then all the stuff data over the summer. I was I while in and the morale is so low tat. Would you you're like if I posit that they replaced instead of going with Chris? They want machine and Sean took over right after you left is still around
Yes, don't ask me, I think it is the United States, a pretty power volume. Having a decision- one, that's interesting, but I just what I mean you know look where his pms. Now after the cuts you know I mean it is hard to imagine the grim. We were not coming and looking at something when I visited Iraq and about undefeated invite thirty eight yeah yeah, but but, but why? But without bill I mean I think, gets I can either the post bill, Graham, How will we created this with bill and then it goes on and out. We need to cut somewhere rationale Think that's how allow people found the other thing is they had. Every department has had counts and they needed the had cancer undefeated one skipper really fully committed to it. I think that really and they weren't honest about that. I wanted to do. I had count com about grand land and five thirty, eight, because I thought that was fascinating when a couple times when you, I know you guys were
furthermore, and who, as you know and then I'll son, but five thirty eight was getting it. And that's why you so you left, I was a pretence. A pretty big decision might turn in itself. I had us I added decision to make. I was south by, where's the stock and impure Kafka record and use A about how are on the road part gas in our pockets, wisdom, I felt like I felt, like the staff that we had with the content we are putting up. I could see people started to burn out and I didn't think it was sustainable like if we work and grow and add people- and I just was really starting to get worried about some kind of the mental health of the staff, and so I said nothing like we gotta keep growing. I There are things I didn't know thou at the time I didn't know about, I didn't know that about the cord cutting thing I didn't know it was as bad as they were starting to realize like Springer, two thousand and fifteen, that the court kind of thing was a real thing that they're going to have to have legitimate budget things.
Always been told from day one. We want to be wrong stone for the internet. We, why do great stuff, like even two thousand fourteen with almost tired legion gains you know. Neighed initially was supposed to be an grantline we we're still moving in China make thing we did a big deal with matters read stories for us like that. Therefore, but we were aware of the fact that five thirty eight was getting resources that you couldn't get. I was by the way at the in time. I really like made. I wanted his sight to succeed with with data sounds to me was when we had this head counting, unlike March, and we needed needed a social person with Social was a big thing for us. We needed to really boost up our social and get our stuff out and they just fading give us any headcount, and I knew I was gonna veterans, but I think them must allow is about me right. They fight Leaving any day they felt like, I was gonna leave at the end of my contract for not open ground. I think,
final year than you are ideally, adventure was a very very difficult year. India, I don't blame them for play, that way if they felt like, I was going to leave where they keep sinking resources in a rather well. I just think that now is the time, though, to for them at least to come up with, for you guys, together to come up with a bold new financial arrangements whereby you could estate. I think it was just too simplistic to say: oh, you know what were you he's already making this much money and we're not going to be a pay. What we think he can get on the court and called market, so to be a little bit more entrepreneurial about it breaks rolls do some things with revenue sharing and other things that you sometimes have to when somebody how grows you know that and they thought I was leaving a start accompanying the corner, where there were reasons that they thought, where they get there? You know, let's just let's be honest,
indeed been Zion inside Baseball railway with everything I dont think that, but I guess I need one think she left, I don't think so, should abandon charging content. I think she was a brilliant businessperson. I think I think she got ms cast an eye and a day she got Miss Cast, partly because he had done a poor job of building his inner circle around them. In people who could have promoted that he didn't. I think he could only non Connor Ladson than he did. I member Conor must left in two thousand and twelve or thirteen. I care member. In thirteen, fourteen and fifteen of uncertain you is almost out the door again, You know I was like. Why am I the only one fighting forgot her at sending long emails about why they have to keep on me. It was like he was one of the only young. Second, as they had who actually had a sense of content, and I don't know
just everybody's box and everybody out? It's just. I think unfairness also to worry when you get parachuted into the content world it. There are things about it that are just so unique, and I mean that's why I like a living guys, the growing up in there and you see her career. The way is flourishing and you see how amazing shouldn't. You know she's on that same visa, better executive, I'm just saying, though, that you spending that time in the trenches and then moving up forward and moving up for its. Not only that your colleagues understand that you ve made your dues, but you ve, we seen what some of these jobs require. So when you're talking about it from a man in point of view of a keener sense of it. I think it is very difficult
I would say it had to again: I've been there for two years. It had two gotten a really bad. That re like had to go of surprise by that you're talking like inner circle for escape, skipper thousand Twelve Wash Marie closer does or his those are through them. All gonna one other thing he never did that I had that Georgia has had was that she for staff, who sets but a judge. The best one is large anti, oh, who ended up gone to run and he has been W chartered, haven't chief of staff so that these meetings and who Billig I? U meeting with baseball at ten o clock than your meeting with you, spend a port days, a twelve cheap staff of them. And before the meeting a be like. I you meeting with bill summons background here. The four bullet points bubble buys him tat one thing about this this this
skipper which is go. He didn't have anybody well, but also is it is. It was how they arranged the organization rikers it just like. President AIDS is states, you have a view vertical. One like Eisenhower, used to sit on top. Just like you is the commander in chief and so everything kind of felt it up. Nixon was like that, and then you have somebody like Bill Clinton. You basically in annex and he wants, is just right in the middle right and he wants to be Do you want transparency and that's what civil wars and, by the way, skipper prided himself on anybody could get right and that he was obviously Jake there. The job was to big, see, look at the NBA right, you gotTa Annie. I may find this game anywhere without anywhere without all STAR Asta weaken whenever there's a guy right next to wearing a suit. His cane big than his name is Jared. I've known him forever he's Adams chief of staff every Waste Adam goes Jerry go sites like he's already behind, get them ready, so the nuclear go there he's. Just to this. We gotta go here, you're the aid programme. I am I right
sent any matter. Skipper warrants be like that should be Connor Conor should go wherever you go and prep you in beer chief of staff, but he just didn't want it woke. He can't you know, look skippers. What sixty two sixty one! Whenever you dont you can't change just because the job changes you can do certain things but skipper his whole life has been very by the way He's a lot quicker. This decision maker than George was he likes to be more face to face, is here going, you know a million miles a minute. Any feels comfort with that, and so that's his model I mean I totally understand that it's just that. I think that you know the legacy is that he really he didn't understand. How was, as still think, is a brilliant counter. Guy he's, I wish the things he dead. Were you know that the first Had he Greenland? Thirty, thirty, I think, is the incredible. I just don't think anyone else would have green light. Then suddenly they he's gotta Contra coming up. Do you think he stays will now? Definitely him
and as part of the genius somebody did right. Having so, do you think as as innocent bystanders these next few three, Here's determine and whether the skipper thing was a success and I urge you fell into the lining Serbs and all that stuff. It's like already, not a six ANA tvs get time. He's got tended to do. Change. The narrative as it would, you think, are the two things he has been needs to do next. Two years, would be Europe to prayer. It is a view where skippers, new chief of staff figure out Well, I of timing in two years is gonna, be rights, deals but figure out the way forward on that which you can pick. What to Jim was talking about earlier, where you gonna double down, where you gonna just abandons that we can't do it gotta go. We gotta get out of this these businesses and then give figuring out two minutes, the big question sick: what's the central question. He has been we to pay for this. What are we gonna do how we gonna make money? How we going to satisfy the highly masses on Wall Street. You know I ween imbalance.
The continued Montes company do you buy, saw this new european states in China they're gonna open that has all content as not only as being a cricket, not as different stuff see how that works. Maybe not, but I think a period right now we're there willing, and I feel that they need to throw a lot of stuff at the wall and see what sticks and you know, and by the way, even if it's not a gigantic comrades, they're all day she being the singles and doubled business. That speaks to your point about podcast years ago, because they weren't they would thinking about homelands, and so now, if you get an early on something and it's you know, even if it's a small piece of the pie, if its profitable and it has a growth strategy behind it great. Let's do that. Let's do that. Let's do that. So I think that in in that regard, the problem being smart, which is there not trying to just look,
One thing: that's going to other sudden turn it around which, by the way, makes the message is that to give Disney to give Wall Street all the harder. We also think a big challenge for them gone. Rather than a challenge for the last couple years, has been finding new talent and you look at like law, the talent that day there found front, divine talent. Now, because the notion of talent is changing, I'm SAM people that- dry boss to a computer screen origin here's to a radio or pack asked or you know can be somebody on air, and I just think I think, from of finding talents day point, came and really lacking the less copier. So there we say gaining Owen. I may I mean sure: that's is at finding TAT Arthur a bland, developing talent for filing somebody who has potential and development.
Into an asset knows in unknown commodity. She hunted down the heirs instead Clinton. You know, I mean it's been a long time. Figuring out what to do with her at the great western right. What does she want to do and what what would she be best to an over them cheese, known I'd, say the talent they develop lately is like Palladora in a magazine. To around the horn guest to getting too has its own show come up and then, and then it regime right means comes as on that same color path, right yet magazine great writer round the horn. Guess who knows next thing you know was Johnny has been radio Katy, I mean you know Katy and a lot of people on Twitter no Katy, but I think Katie's got another level jump in her that it that's possible somebody can figure out what she should be utterly really that first personage are higher. They wouldn't shade who in the chamber? Oh that's right, that's what Winston NASCAR guy for Marty, Smith, faxes. I could do it.
Let us have endured for some soccer stuff and let us have Marty Smith, Giddy Katy, wild access. Now and now is the athletic director Turkey's needed as well. The rabbit that deal could pull it I should have. We should have thrown a couple more things in there. I think there I didn't. They need to continue to find town, especially in the digital side, because you know pounds out there Go find so go find some people whose the next generation of european law that dumping, like Tunisia, a three hour, show around my Greensburg through hours. I dont have been three hours with anyone.
Three hours is like a ride from Boston to New York, and that is, I think, that's the that's the first played on Connors table. I think it's a big one if your head of content- and you have a guy- your pain over six and one slash two million dollars a year for when you're, going to give him three hours everyday, nothing, better work. That's me that shows all about sidekicks, but I think who was the person who are the person in people but the thing is if, if you're going to buy it, so I agree with you, but if you're going to, if you need to make that show work by having ten other people on it, that you have to give me.
Contracts to them. Why did you choose the idea? And the first thing where we are now about casting aside kicks greatly with a Katy S, a big role in that we have not regular Roland, then, who is sitting next to him to me- is huge earnings indicating she'll beyond a doubt. If she's on the S band, they gotta put her on her. Now there was a new first stage was gonna, be on it now sage and tat could be on it in. I think they're still figuring things out by the way it starts in you see skeptical you know what I think, it's your climate ever cynical down your shorts, I mean we because it's three hours and it's a s expensive, show not to say that I dont have faith in Conor Abyla Granier whenever but its that's gonna be a tough one. That's not an easy show to do just not tat they just what are they doing with that has been made here,
Radio, all over the place radios is at an I mean it's almost like pie, Cassock Gunnar Guy had a great decade or two, and you know it has been brought back to life and over launched in no easier. So many each year in the hay days so fast, Amy local markets there like that, even though the top forty, which shows and in these major cities, has ever unjust once they or their own during. Doubtless she just one here, but the mavericks in there cowboys in the budget are gathering actually but yet is governed.
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That is our chance hope. So we gotta do we gonna leave. Can Matthew Harry play me how much studies, but they give us your place, we have made up yet only twenty five year old, Matthew, very baby. Now, China, they went age, my the SBA. This is set in the seventies. Seventy eight emanating early eighties radio shouted after watching Tommy Child ACT there being played by one of the guys in a decision for the kid is factually and went with your dad because you, my dear Should we must prevent a character sour here. He sees the wolves, the signature pack, s guest room Brian. Thank you. Thank you. As a really good job. I, though, a bright a great piece about how Europe is creating a whole new generation of media which is true? It was it was what One of those I love that peace is. I had never thought about it until you laid it on. I'm like yeah, he's rate deserve our people that just want that in
two months ago, he never matches. The idea was nowhere at a time when good news travels slow, but I just think that this whole dynamic at ten o clock at night to watch. What's going on between the New York Times the Washington Post makes you feel, like you know, I mean That'S- must have been languages like in the seventies, yeah in a spear, works, doing this movie about MRS Ground, which is like perfect timing, but it is unbelievable if you walk, if you every single night there stairs, there's the journalism and the breaking news is pretty compelling the age of the heroic journalist, they'll rope, political journals taken, that's what's billboards does move it because the way we think about the people covering Trump, he is evoking met by the people to cover next absolutely thanks for doing this. Guy s, thoughts as they have. I wonder where more reconvene, the three men what needs to happen. This is the last big for a while right corners now. This is the second skippers Gueboroa needed yeah. I guess,
You don't think there's gonna be another massive lab. Think I'm in here I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. I mean I illicit. I'm not trying to scare any money. I know I just have no idea. I hope not. I've certainly hope not delay simple adamant. It was done said Lord willing, I mean no, certainly don't don't want any more. You know it's it's weird, because we see these headline sometimes are you a steel or forward laser thirty, two thousand or whatever? You know three people it is planned to years ago. It was changed conceivable, it was inconceivable and people are still feeling it, and then this hundred Oh, you know, programming and production, their ratings were really bad and they were starting to think about that back. Which we were sharing an office with that grandma two thousand and eleven. That was like, I think, like twenty two people in that feel, like the biggest most important thing that happened. Three hundred is insane I remember one ratings went down, though, and it was one of the region
Why Bonanno gave Shapiro programming and production their ratings were really bad and they were starting to think about that back then yeah and you gotta credit Shapiro Gus mean some arrangement of Uruguay really turn things around. You stiffer tools thanking us. I give to explore ways.
Transcript generated on 2020-06-10.