HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Kevin O'Connor and Jonathan Tjarks to discuss the All-NBA teams, the Warriors with and without KD, Bucks-Raptors, what's sure to be a wild NBA offseason, fake trades, and more (4:45). Then Bill sits down with David Epstein, author of 'Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World,' to talk about the benefits of delaying specialization in young athletes, looking at training and practicing differently, testing for talent, PEDs, HGH, and more (1:09:45).
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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he's not going away, we're we're figure out the next. The next thing, there's gonna be a next thing here. They will have an answer that we also announced there that show that we are doing little eyes after show in that It's a Jew. Ninth, the show outside the series to sell their. I can't speak season, two Globalized is gonna, be June, ninth on HBO and our after, as can be hosted by the ringers Amanda Dobbins, and our friend Ringer satellite, just in our universe, even though she were three as paean Kimes, so yeah in the heavens and main crimes hosting big lit alive, which will be right after a big little ass ends for those seven episodes and then a couple bonus websites where you can have a bonus, guess as well so really fun, as always to our two to collaborate.
People outside our little universe, who also violate the kind of belong in our universe, welcome aboard Mina, even if it's for eight weeks, thanks to is paying for letting that is where I come We are going to talk to our common oconnor and Jonathan Sharks about the all mba stuff that gets announced today. As well as the playoffs and what are the words do this? anything and then David Epstein author, who wrote a really good book, called range that I have a lot of thoughts on he's, come up as well and either way: no podcast on Sunday, night or Monday about US after term it sorry Rarely do this, but this big soccer term it so If you want to hear a podcast for me, we are putting up We watch a buzz Sunday night. The hangover room put that up.
However, one p m actually travel, and am I guess I'll be Monday morning, but that's gonna be memorial day the hang over one of the most fun we watch was paths we did not. Table Carlos and the real was the internet. It actually just went up, Luminary exclusive to them, the insider which we are, It was one of the most underrated movies that whole decade and one of the great journalism movies ever an the last. You know last grey ass great Pacino year, so eagerness in both of those and the best pod will probably come back. I think Tuesday, so you'll survive you'll be fine, come up
kerosene sharks. First, our friends from project I were taken this out of Thursday late morning, Jonathan Sharks from the rigorous here Cabinet Connor from the rigorous area intact, but meetings, laughs, a bunch of other stuff. The first one big question for you guys gonna, throw this out here. Would it shock you if we never saw Katy is aware again marked this Thou Kyle World? Don't break out now, really not at all. I wish let me underline that ours. For the first time. Any signals that this act. Breslau the injuries worse the injuries worse than they ve let on and were now heading toward
and were now heading towards a situation where it act. It doesn't make sense for him to come back. I feel like against a box here be closer. They would meet him against the rafters way they're getting endured. I now make a pillow and allocating Shams Ronnie Report before we get Onyx podcast, which was pretty much I'm assuming what we ve been hearing that he's gonna miss the beginning of the final already I didn't do that I didn't even yes, shoves report is anxious about before we started that Katy is likely to miss the start of the enemy finals. Warriors hope he can return later in the series mouths, pretty identical to what I have heard recently of injuries more serious than they ve let on Emily. May not return at all, especially for the short series and my keys. Maybe it makes sense for him to get. This rests instead of pushing and risking further injury, so think about it from the Katy anger. If there are to nothing, when the first two games and lucky Ngos the game, three golden state. Give this I'm ready by some seven straight.
They claim? Let's say they lose game three in Brazil that fuck it ass, an he's dead, mother sat up and so funny. You can't really do that. Really the only scenarios where he can come back as if it's, how to one one which are ok but no possibility of its own to then it's like I'm coming back. Obviously, a player fits one one, it's better, but if I'm him on that sure I wanna come back before the team loses, especially if I'm really hurt, which I think he's really hurt. He is I mean I I still see. War has grown up, one one at least after, firstly, with the pro Procope as Marcus. All can stop that pick unroll camp. The strain with that we result. I talked about it either. Eight strain is a tear if its poor, it's different? If it's a strain, that really means it's a tear and it's either a tiny tear, a bigger terror and actual Voltaire, and for him it's like.
One great to get three. They ve never really being clear about which greatly was, but I think it's worse than they're letting on he's been gone for two weeks now I mean this is not a strain calf type of thing words, I wouldn't know the Braun handed jury until after the files were over Katy if we don't save it with all the details here conspiracy, Bill Jersey, Catholics, surgery, Bilbil. I remember I married you, never earful detail, o nines owner insults, cagey, oh yeah. So yes come back the out anything and I was like some weird name for it anything again or he'll be back their feelings. I gets vibrate he's that back it. Where is he now the well marked gnats an inch is kept going and inevitably above the Glen Davis against your land of magic. And yes, here I never gave act. So do you think if I can doesn't come back a major market ago like if they went without him. He's, They're gonna get you think we're making molecular leave gone state about fucker.
The thing is gonna matter what kind like manna. Seamless was gonna play with his awesome, their wedding without me like a mistaken when we're championships, but I guess it does the warriors winning two three nine games without KD in winning the title without him and then him leaving would be unbeliever endless justice. Potent offensively write them either just like those values that are looking well. I feel I have to say that I think the weird thing up till now is when the bulls, where fifty five and twenty seven, that I've J and really came, you know not that far for making the final with the team that the number of Jordan it. This would be. The new weird I won't say: let's not forget the last forgives beings Portland, though, play a much better defence, and I, finally, whether it is, I think they will see our as easily as it at the conference. Farms are Katy against harmful. Ethically, I that's a big part though I will fail, we ve gone faith off ass. It's interesting with their pickin role, the and why Portland is is but saying I'm trapping that stuff car
dream of dream on is because Kevin Europhiles off on the floor having factory with dollar Mckinney guys at your moral? to help off of when you are going to trap, but like with Katy, Just gonna switch that and there's not a dream on shore role, option that you have. So if I that's one reason why the orphans looks so different wives, just as dynamic better or worse, with Katy. Just different saw me I do think, however, that you can't give you the option of being score. Obviously you can score, the hall happens, a basketball where a team list, somebody in everybody s kind of bans together in in you have to step. In there all sort of shown on its Auburn really beneficial clay and stuff in him, a bigger ozma having the steam right would cut chaotic net. They were office, guesswork staff is like, the ten best of prayers ever and it's like you, get to take more shots and you have. The bomber, like it's gonna, be good for him bids that could be.
Situation where his protection crater, so it happened right away in their game five or they all did step up. Second, secondly, went down, so you think Over Underne game two and a half. When do we see Katy again in the finest you're over under I go over so You go overseas aid, three or above and major Amis. I think you'll be one and one thing come back again: three, that's myself over the other over them Let's talk about the, albeit aims beyond eighteen, just came out and little fast, anti wrinkle here, because there are some financial incentives for some of these deeds. Monstrous centre says crazy. How much my region First team for Werner surprise, yadda, scurry, Paul George James harden Fifth one year, kids verses in bed was a nice little battle. Actually voted for a baby. Ok got it over every argued over, I did yoke edge for third envy p, but I did indeed for first him.
Yeah I feel like Yoke, which was more valuable to his team. I mean the whole tonight the sheriff I carried them their built around him where's fully without him They ve got other pieces, but I can see it to our ability in the regular seat. I gazed defence, its about how you interpret the tooth. Things right. I was like that all the area, like just performance, it said you know, valuable and then, if they find their vision. Yet for them the appeared psych. It's like you know why was the impact that they had on their team. Did their teams, cedar, fails specifically based on this person, so I'd I'd feel it sort of, like the indeed advance metric staff in the offence of production at all that- and is the rim protection that, like for individual staff that gave the not to miss, I thought I'd. I basically split the boat between them. By doing that now it now. I think I just
Rio Pitch yeah. I think what you over to the overall offensive impact with the play, making ability the passing the shooting, the brain, the Bob more western conference. It is western carmathon the fact that he also was a solid defender. He wasn't elite defender of potential defensive where the year like indeed, but he was still possibilities good, so I think in that sense I yoke. I got my first team only in here, Third, on my every few bell see, what I wonder is like is Paul George Burthen Calendar and like We do it here, Katy play semi, he was incredible, was incredible, announced the regular season, a word yeah, I ass. She thought Paul George was better than covered the real anger. I did because I thought he had agar burden on a much worse team, and I thought defensively. He was a little bit better and then offensively he was really clutch and I I was look at it. Try to look at this season, I don't have any baggage from the previous seasons and then, if it likes, if it's like, basically either. Then I started thinking about how much the team win.
And then also like the legacy of the prayer, that's fine My bring it in the Katy thing. The biggest thing to this is: I did Paul Do enough to steal his first team spot and actually follow you did. I think so too. I had George first, seem overcoming played, hurt and asked his Patsy's Plato. Restructuring is hurt. You dare Laura Data if we're talking refugees and volume production Katy was there almost every night. Time he was so good this year. Staff got hurt, Sheer Katy concept in oil than there in that number. The gaming is compliant Verona, like fifty points that are overtime game, like he's really get here: had stood and credible run this year and I go. Subsidies. I am amazing. What are you doing here? I now and n. I think I'd even did a package with them where he he go It's crazy about this obvious fact: cyclic worse we're on the regular season. That's it if you want. I also include the playoffs. Then we can wait till after this and then do everything at once. But that's not the point. That's why smelling like
I hate here in the argument about more brown should have diamond peace is, I know I shouldn't regular season, a word when end result. I have talked about this recently, the different the cost now between the regular season. The price is bigger than ever wider. You guys think with sorrow. The sharks I mean, I think the biggest thing is just like in the plan- is all about match up sought by finally weaknesses to ability, the Magyar seizing ice age. A games like big men, especially is collapsing. Why the minorities who cares by the places like I finally mismatch? Can I attack it? It's so much more specialised with more tailored to each individual, hackers game planning, there's yeah funding from day to day for a single opponent, where you're exploding every single week weakness in your trying to highlight every single strength that you have on your own team, you're running your best plays here, you're you're, making adjustments from God to game against a single opponent. So far, We ve seen this in the play off that some, like Pascal, see outcome who, at a tremendous
our seas and exploring all seem most improve player are without doubt my mind, but would see, outcome in the policies and we ve seen what he still ass. A work honest. On three points. Shooting still needs are proof he still on average. Three point should also sectors progenitor lobbied autumn, Adam sag off and protect the rim. Then, in this round the bugs have sagged off the outcome as well, and you know wrappers have counter Just by having see I can cut off ball. They ve played I'm a little bit less, but it just shows difference in regular seas and play or sometimes especially with the outcome like effort, has been one of the things of his elite strength when the policies and everybody's giving an effort. So if I came planning its effort and has also just exploiting weaknesses. This has been the placid sagging yesterday sagging lot way: ass, lotta, guys, gonna Tony Ellen treatment in Romania. What's happened in baseball where there is much in a game, the red Sox by last night and
Bruges rub their chance to win the game and like the tenth meeting and somebody came up and they moved they move Muky bets basically to fit in spot there is like he's not hitting it to left field. Wherever they made the front. We're saying the same thing like the shift in baseball. We ve, seen like the sagging, is crazier than had ever been Toronto game for was basically like we're just words Every other guard can take a shot wheelchair like we tapping address airports a knock yourself that will give you that all day she icon that the whole platform by but This happens every year, but I'd just noticed the gods. Honey. Look like they say: phlegmatic big men become like number for starters I can't I guess, she's knew that bananas guys out use innings, who cares and the plaster and baseball like we have these Bolton guys at a play off, came we're throwing light, Two things in your out through maximizing every possession. Basically, how much that has
with gold state being gone state that I mean like we saw a lot of big men go far in the playoffs yoke. Its and if any of their ball bounces a little bit differently. We have yoke agenda, be both in the car. Finally, the games best young, big man and not to like some of the recent draft offers like towns and eaten so on and so forth. Eyes that are at some point we could be unwilling seems maybe not, but there's a lot of good young bigger than the league. Coming back says carelessly like towns had a great season with Minnesota and he was a hard cut. My army- and I know you had em off yours too. Think about what is in store for me, because I think it's a lot easier to succeed when you're on a team that psycho anywhere I would say that endeavour. We hope that we have and workers are a lot, and I know we really him. We do. I would challenge through two centres I think, of the waste changing now. It's like. If you're a centre you gotta offer like MAX, often evaluate causes. I get yoke is some valuable cities like playing like stuff and hardened. Almost we're like you give this deviant grain is he for so many points out even set out. I think
Ass, a shift that big money coming back spheres like dominant blaming I'd, be scorn. Twenty five thirty points a game again to really make their value play ass. I look it now. I got through our positions in my head when we get to the paths in his sake, Create a shock for themselves and somebody s does it there's a team have to as you can do this again tries one they ve Hawaii, and Larry, sometimes, but really just Kauai does I fully was so dangerous and I kept there are like the sleeping giant of the planned cause. They really had to guys who could create a shot? If you can't servants at least for the head of state. I accounting Harris now that category, but but Get somebody like like one is China's I decide do Tatum? Is he ever going to a point where he big guy who created shop for himself or somebody else in a playoff series, and how do you know after two years with the AG's at and little check marks he's he's hit? It's such a tough,
It's like. Do you want to roll the dice and trade this guy for Anthony Davis in two years? From now he's going to put all this together and be one of these guys that only like eight of them exist and eighty solemnly twenty six for outside what that conversation inside you, these thirty two years. All nobody marvel well, he recited is that even where yeah yeah in issuing Mormonism ain't gonna happen any thing in the world, the horizon pretty much. He sounds like so I mean besides what our let's yeah I mean if you have signed a drill, why not go here I mean I know they suffer wherever there are bay leaf, intend to keep this core and go into the season. Because that's what they should be said. Of course If I'm like, I'm, never selling my house, no can't make it on four fry has no way it's all for what they should do. So in my house. If somebody comes in and makes it offered their Lucretia do, if, if they can now they're playing a perfectly, don't think their absolute going! Try to see how much they are. I feel like if you ve got,
drew holiday, Anti Davison sign whilst at the same time my Catalonia for evil French, I just go for it. Didn't China valleys, leaving he's leaving didn't chow we're talking about the fear. The night we're like that's a potential elite defensive team with the low yeah there in terms of positions. On the contrary, they play laying some little never mind like. I think the only question is often of way with Zion and eighty. How much can those guys space of Oregon so what your point is with centres on the minute I value but like this core something that they should try to keep in your right. Maybe maybe they're, not you. I won't realistically there he, if he was, leave, that's it shorter the oil, the season and, like your winning games, he's like you know what I see the potential here I want to state, which is why they should wait until February to do this, but he is the most VI right now, there's teams that are going to be an arms race. Basically to get a few years. I'm thinking If you have a Zion Williamson, what are the odds? You'll ever have a player as good as Anthony Davis. Next to him in the next nine year ago, severe right
I would say: zero yeah, I don't. I don't see how they could wherever they go, the trade, for surely only reason it makes sense is, if you know, is living in a year, and that say you just have to basically cash in four eighty five cents on the dollar unfailingly from those we have not my source go for it and we should Katy leaves golden state as more wide open. The problem, though, is for what they could get for him. And you have Zion now under control for seven years- and you have light this really unique, historically You know window where you can turn this guy into all these young players impacts that you know is gonna leave you have to do it. You can't risk not doing it now there if they really think he might stay out, played out of fabric is a fight that lake? They were spoken. We send their wherever it having most reveals phobia on the table. The effort
three every diamond and also, I think of it ass, the ones that as appealing though, because they would have already about made all the picks by then maybe, but I think, for New Orleans. There's also value in seeing these rookies come into the league so like. If the number for particulates says that various garlands right, and you get actually see this guy perform for a couple of months me NBA, so you may be. Potentially, you get a little bit less value and a deal but made you get more confidence in the daily are actually making through making a smarter decision by waiting. Do you like our debate? big, our guy Alexander I see in our allied, I tried it by reddish commemorating listen to me. I like further still you don't like a metal allowed here. I think, with ready sheets gee you and I talked about yesterday- draft on a corner. Three five billion x rays play counter. What would reddish it's like you and I are line, and so I think with him. It's like there's a three Md Road for him to be a good three point, shooter Who-
and defend model physicians, and he has the play making ability that we do in the areas of work group right now, as I have teamed, here's the thing is ready for the first time. In his whole, life was the third we'll behind Zine Williams in an area where two guys you dont space before well. Something else am I making excuses for furnished distinction at Duke, however, projecting forward three any potential with with a road to be a little bit more leathers buys honor. You said the support think has to me he's Rodney head: why do you not baron for a while. I ones like names, so towns are healthier. I wonder green yeah, but by my only like tried harder because, like the time as there are you. I swear five minutes against very talent, and then I turn fifty this year then believe I like to do they rightly would want to play series like a week ago. I like to hear a Portland
climb out here. I lay round guy. He might not be eliminated. Eight first wrong, I might be moving up. Claxton tries if I'm drafting anybody over six eight just try liquid make class and with interesting a Georgia. He basically ran the office. He was like a six eleven point guard for that team. Anything How can it be doing that in the NBA, but I think it's important or garden the position in phase league and we ve seen versatility every until an inability to make plays off the dribble, like you, can't just spot up and shoot and then be a nobody driving the ram or they are making a pass off the drivel you have to be able to meet the second following a teller like it here, big data can travel, doesn't look, there's a ceiling on you in a big time, plasters, poor, Capella Claxton, I'm hoping firm it together. I wake up backwards, omby a second time, the rat joy and be quite dame We get the seconds I had a damosel contain. Who was the first him garb size harden hardening her actual, so I voted for Westbrook just be
as I penalised carry one one team, even though statistically he was here. Resume, but I actually watch the celtic season and lives and ass. I I can't live through three word. I can't say you're, one of the best personally guy just refuse so Westbrook, who You know is really a bit from a shooting standpoint: the first months and then got better zero. I bet is played so hard, though year he's frustrating. You drive me crazy. I talked about a million times, but edges it is better to feed him. I'd rather be. I feel I feel like I'm gonna get lost in the next year. Will young racism that leads us to the thirteen go? Bear Blake Griffin Westbrook Campbell, Get said six guard about which will talk about big employee so my anyway, and then everybody everybody full
in voting for the bridge, is really folded. Yes, all of the Brons. Happily, it's a fuller, whose is how is it or were against the Hutu six forward? Eight miles? How do you were word the brand for that Lakers season? What's the point about what I mean reward him thou so so he went to. He went to a young team that was on its way up last year and made, and the team got worse and the The thing which his agent in one of his best friends from since high school start the saw anything that completely destroyed their team. How does he like a penalised for that short because he was twenty, eight, seventy, seven and thirty to maintain graduation pretty much the same way? Defence all year? I do, I think, the defence. My buddy Ben Tailor made a great video on Youtube about hidden, try about the bronze de France any trial on harder than he is perceived as he did. He did here. He is perceived as someone who had a lazy defensive ear. He had lazy moments for shore, however level
also at moments with defensive versatility, he saw a great rebound or may so put an energy on a lot of knights and the second to the back to back, maybe took it off, but that's because he was such an office of force for him for that team, about away with regular Marcus Aldrich I'd. Fan the argument like Le Blinkers, intimate the playoffs, but this season, Lebron James and the Lakers or plus two point, one points for wonder: possession when the brain is on the floor, minus five point eight without him and with the spurs there are possible Point two with alders plus one point: six without him, so the Lakers better, with the broad on the floor than the spurs worth all Cecil, I hate with it ass I sat there is able I urge is over and over again they build like this complete roster their system, they have great Roche and they can plug people in and out our who it is the. Here's where our built around like we're being held hostage by the bronze talents plan, it's a man, oh my god, we're up playing with the greatest care about time. This is amazing and it
and everybody in their team got worse. Who move out better this one? I believe I remember correctly on your part of about the all meetings one the arguments was like they do. They make the play off course I love, I didn't have any non play off gas, but that's why I made it easier for us who is your suit, your fit in six forwards, so I had if I had ordered island, center. I really wanted about town yet, but I stuck to the no play off saying so I go back returns and I put out, tat of a Mitchell over here I'll really gonna play. I go, bears wealth, but would like your browser's Mitchell Stats, like I think, the less. There are thirty two and eleven last forty three games before they threw a game. Eighty two and he was twenty seven five and five like forty five, forty one, eighty two, What's shooting feeling? I was really good for that. I wouldn't of adamant my fifteen on mere. If there are fifteen
what was his, we took a widow. Definitely I care about winning and judges care about staff thing. I had a feeling ass. He believes the devil, but I had been his loser. The last three years has, beyond my thirteen, I think, Holiday Walker calmly. Thomson Simmons are all arguments as all those with their arguments over Mitchell. I think I am assuming winning nature. There will always be the best part of fifty when I don't like, if you, if you plug, didn't, be our camp, our holiday, that you taught him, there was something we can't I, Are you paralyzing like Amber free at him? I was like I'm. Actually I was actually true, but history. We realise that is more n. You have five guys in it team. Does a win in the east. I can't put you on an I'm sorry. These was terrible. I just can't that's fair, but I mean, like I feel, like I'ma, did everything he could to power those guys there was only so much you can do. I do realistically given the town around two, we build, chose to be on a wizard scene with John Water soil? It's a casually and
I feel that, if I saw you can ignore the numbers, but I dont think you should, especially when it comes to like splitting hairs like this, like Bradley Bail, the season with a better play maker, the dynamics- is great northern ten point. Seven potential assist thirteen point. Nine points created persists compared saw a ten point. Nine at eight point: five respectively Mitchell was grey. To end the season. However, bill was great all season long certificate later I don't know about it. Never mind, never mind like with Mitchell, far more inefficient as a score scoring. Can see. Matters here lie if I guess he won, but this is the only score and his team who also gonna score juveniles. It bill was as well I ain't, I throw Mitchell, had a better supporting castor, but this is one of my favorite stats. I just had the set TAT, one fifty games and washed in one thirty, two: This is how I just crush this. I went. I went in a bit metric site
Utah one. Eighty more games, the Washington I just one look at it, I feel like what drove wedding for them was coincide. Our Rudy go bear their system there veterans around in a child. He was kind like the driver of him a car they built around him yeah whereas like bill encumber had like jalopy, no like peddling with motor, like bicycles, Russia, driving a car. So I get you from by do feel like if I choose, I guess what are voted for. I liked me right now. I've Cumber at Donovan Mitchell was not admitting those guys are really good nor veterans? Nepal also do so. We have different strategies. You just get it act. Ass time I used the word. Agnostically correctly, there sounds good greater. I actually went into it like if you need me class, not voting for you, but the resided I was cause, I thought the league was really loaded this year when I needed some way too try discern the impact of sir. People and ass. I think, like first about the stats with this stuff,
We just looks at a which drives me. Nuts, like the Damn Booker thing specifically like I think p really thought Devon. Booker had like a great year last year, including somebody in this room. Right now and I'm like it took a lot of shots for a really bad theme. You make any the better he had a good off, and so we are considering today really got really. They jump and play making sure he's. Gotta get me my he's a young, a tariff who got but Lou. Why are they terrible though they ve had seven lottery pigs last year's is poor palace of the Phoenix Sons Roster and that's why they're terrible We have also advocated a language for coaches. In three m I mean there's a lot of reasons live the Phoenix islands are terrible and its because Devon Bucker I wanted. To put looks like I said earlier, I want to put Mitchell on my fifteen. I wouldn't put broker on that neither like there's a lot of great guards, the sheer about we're deserving of Vienna Mitchell as somebody who's is in the conversation I just, I can't find it. The arguments for him over Bradley Beale Orkut.
Hope you don't mind me a guy loved them in the draft. I still love em. I was a young kids for me right now, but They hope you don't mind me a guy loved them in the draft. I still love. Em. Now is a young kids for me right now, but I do not think is there it's crazy, like normal, is just I kind of like barroom talk, but the implications of this conversation are like just league altering follies franchise now for the billiard guides incredible Howard had so much the better I can then add. I just stick to the same. I had the same rules each year for this stuff and I see, as I've said, actually care a dynamic teams. Cause was when I was right in my book. It was really when the only ways you can kind of figure out who is good in a given year. I think, with with that, like somebody like Booker, for example, the team of nineteen sixty three. Dear facts, in Sacramento, the team, thirty nine and forty three right
I think if you compared rosters, just in a vacuum, you wouldn't really say Sacramento was like more talented than Phoenix. We do. I feel they have a lot of good players. Maritime border, which I mean examine a guy gather. Shared Ghip Ghisizzle was bare, allows the fit better. What Who is the centrifugal forces that fit think it was really was like spread pickin role with the order and they have Fox Bogdanov edge, Buddy Hills. They have like remaining big man, actually be lead so as probably a fast pace, I believe that a system they had had their roles assign where's phoenix. There is no sense in our also lake. Is the system was Devon Book our best parent he's gonna have to do everything in the wake of the revised over seventy points. The motor was also hurt for a large part of the season as well. He was That was one of you like motor, wasn't even to me in the conversation followed, be I'm surprised, I guess
He wasn't one day, I'm curious about some NBA. If you're Charlotte, are you paying him without Supermax like what even do at that point it? So money I just wouldn't but alone. I don't know tell your fancy. They re he's using every somebody's somebody sent me a screen grab of other contracts, Caprice going. I read it to reseller when the positive it's like staggering and whenever eighty five come out to all guys ever make it all started again. So you have come to that. What are you getting a getting another season like you had this year, Riga, thirty, eight, forty, forty percent, more than one more season of what you meant a slightly over. The other option is like carrying it down when they tore down a get em cagey and live like five years of nineteen. Wins that's hard to sell your fans to there is such a thing opposition. This is something I wrote about in March, like when the hornets for on them maybe not making the play or not as one of the arguments I I had an there was like if they make the pious, maybe voters will be more likely to give come by the edge over the other guys in this conversation. For that six spot and
Obviously, what happened on another do play offspring is there, but for show but now it's like your locking yourself this core- that is not a off team in as little versatility Campbell Water, is a great is he as the season theirs stretches where, like you, need more from him stresses where he was extremely inefficient himself on the offensive before never mind is defensive limitations that to go back to the play off conversation we had that would really pop up for the horn. If they ever made the second or third round. Your teams are pick on him likely Charlotte. That's fine, not getting there, but that's. The problem is, but it's like you said bill. What are you doing? your fans, if you just let him why Then I will say there is, I do think, a hornets France would understand, if you left, I'm not sure if they would understand the team, let him go so that things can be done. Then, if your Campbell, you take the bag ready, I trap play with a star somewhere else. I don't, I think, and this guy he's gone Adieu ways from New York which is under it. You think I am from the front yard.
I think heard out somewhere years mix for him. I feel like eighty in Cambodia, the most logical, Kamba Inquiry inquiry to Brooklyn interesting in there. I suppose so, would you have if your brother, I would rather Indiana Dr Cambric area for the nets. I think one That said, rather of carry from the necks out rather put Campbell with K, Dick is stable. Culture he's just more table, Greg. I perfect Lexi, second guy for a guy like KD I gather more willing to face the media right here a normal ever been in a great situation before he's a normal human beings, probably balances out Katy, well hidden cameras on his dagger guy with that we carry you have that possibility of like on December second, before a practice, oh wow,
You know. I've said that get enough. Shots are like some weird tiree thing and then also becomes a three day storied near there will be no three day story, but I feel I can use you might be time. I care subverting shared out my boy. You know guys a major do exe. Lindsey it seriously. I mean if I was running, Going after watching what copyright carry did in Boston, I'll be really afraid to have him as like my leader of young players, and we actually think the Lakers is probably the smartest fit for him for life. Go after him or her or I yeah breaking away and everything out over the infrastructure with the broad lines, so I would do wonder if, in the back, her carries Hetty still wants a cordon quote: own team can decide. I wondered how one of his in his mind he still I want. I feel like that whole thing the show is sending like men were brought up when, after all, maybe this is an actual, they began to get Bokkis someone out somewhere else. I wonder let's take a break, and I want to talk about this carried. Let's take a break to double helix. They create purse
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They have a tender words even get to try it out for a hundred at risk free pick. It up for you, if you don't love it, but you will they're, offering right right now hundred twenty five hours of all mattress orders for our listeners at helix, sleep tat come slash, Bs he sleep, tat, calm, slash bs for up to one hundred twenty five dollars off on the Cairo thing, you're in Boston for the last, like five weeks or so, and you are in the middle of all the Cairo Whispering and all that stuff like just from fruit. What's cross, the South accept second cuz, who the hell knows, I don't think they're going to bring them back, but you just never know what the stuff from the stuff you heard even stuff, you could report, urges anecdotes inside stories to fight that. Would you feel good as the GM of another team committee term. As a French as guy you're gay, into somebody who's up and out every day, a roller coaster. You're, not sure he's gonna be the stand. Offers type was not even acknowledging a coach and an elevator standing
so, you're not sure. If he's gonna be the guy who's in full support of his teammates into the media or somebody who's. Gonna know passiveaggressive. We talk about it, teammates. So like you, you have to know you're getting into. I think everybody would we That said, I think of your team, like the nets Are you ever you'd nice young core and like they're, ready to take a lead to the playoffs? Cairo still is a player who makes your team better and that's too something at the deal with all that drama, unlike that goes for the Celtics too. I do think you should try. And backfired, if you can, especially because it's like a recital having freedom in six months under saying you retain the asset, the trade value there that is letting him walk, would have Cairo said no trade clause and combat, and no no thank you. I hear it can see essay. I think this is a number two guy, this guy he's a come, do his thing and leave and have knowingly worrying about it. Cuz somebody else handling the off the courts, not that runs that running a team right I will not elaborate basically like carried us. Things is on he's on your new guy
working with carry Brooklyn. I think we can't discount he's really into. In day to day, and there interesting back on them or to team and if Katy, that out of the nasty content, if on the next would he do to stand out? Will you have carry carry is a brilliant port I day he does really range thinks he's up and down and he's kind of captivating, and I personally didn't wanna cause. I wanted the something season to go well, but it may still would it be a dry? Nearly attention is the next so be good for Kyrie too there's something of an ex but still trusting to nets family did in Boston to smile. I need to be in a bigger city in Berlin, so It would therefore be added that the lower than that Celtics rivalry with these draft text was trades had become acquainted, became a full circle. Able very local I very unhappy just with the
be a process. This year I thought I was really frustrating like. I was really hoping the kings would make the aid seed, because I really want to vote for facts even though he was like what seventeen and eight. But I just love that impact that he had and their team about. Then I love the hardy played stiff and his leadership has culture setting right only I rely and that's when you know I received Having buggered thing. We have now If he's going to be really good player, not, but we already eggs Why is really not that they went? Nineteen sixty minutes is really citizen. Based bother can see. This is, and I tried on a line up with a deep marks. A thing with Booker, though, is like he's: gonna want to throw a sensible like he has developed into an all player, but what he is and has core what he wasn't high school in college, the guy who runs off screens and off all guy who can attack close out and create a little bit further guys he's developed into this player that we see Where worries about I'm a guy, so it's like when he surrounded by better teammates. I think
more of that office of versatility, that we don't see right now with its current clear here's, my passionate bucket write Mackenzie is saying is true, but I feel like part of the reason I didn't take Luka last year they were Booker's like I'm the guy. Now I'm not going back that off all roll. I like having the ball in my like this point. Could worker of adjusted the right am, I think he could have gone off. He would have wanted to babies. I'm lookin my stats right now, think I think there are a couple factors and laughing re Mcdonough just really loved the under eight with the fit with Bevin Booker. Also with Roberts. Armor, there's a factor there, but there is a connection, but I think they Booker. Dodge good words and if I, if your drafting a guy that you think is worse than somebody else, because your star players like no and that's a totally different issue, but I'm not sure that's what it was it's like everything you want, if your building a team, it's perfect, two guys who can Greyshot Luke, book or had been amazing what happened I was, I was recommended, an added it wouldn't matters coach, because european coach, what time and have a fire that goes with it. I'm here
you know, when we watch what's happened, the warriors in December, fun. They are without Kate. Even though Katy was the best player league, when he got hurt, it is still at the core. They have three guys. Who can a chats Katy was almost like it was there's been a riches to the point that sometimes it is to the detriment of the team. I still feel like you need at least two and that's why I can't figure out the smoky Toronto. Sir I now can't figure it out that for sure Morocco is going win game for I was actually shocked in. How have limited they were as that game, when I didn't feel it tat was a fluke I really felt like, and you said this on your vernal podcast. I think what did you do that before game, for I believe so came forth? Thirty five knights over. Who is at some point you express concern about what is it? I've got out wars. Yes, yes, he was before the game, so we record Monday night for the Tuesday night Game,
at the same way because man that half court our fence when it really slows down and people start getting tight. I need two guys who can greater sat on that. Should he had the sector me that guy's Middleton, I think, he's really gotta watch the rest, a series she suddenly up and down serious. He asked be consistent. Even if I had a good geeks orgasm. Really I got going it hears the guy's make us it, given that second guy, like I think it the top guys at other middle then Lowery or and right now, wouldn't from the as a second star in the series is down the honest I ever since Ronald put collide lettered Adriano than ever since they ve been doubling and sometimes tripling on his drives by helping off guys like Eric Bledsoe, who are horrific, catching shoot We point shooters dad has made- things so difficult for Gonna do what he does get into the basket. Drawing files getting the freezer align, never mind the playmates, opportunities that come from his drives. I think for your figure out a way to get him going, maybe putting him on the posts posting him against Collide Leonard. Instead of having an attack from the perimeter I didn't
stay where they weren't doing that? I thought Janius in the post is one of the most frightening things I saw system because we really strong. Now when you put him on the left black and he can swing and towards the lane, with the spider manner, on other continents are not taken postcode, rather quiet zone yeah. I mean right about injured, Coy Co. Wiser, finally so strong- that caused by moving lies far superior perimeter defender, though than he is opposed to federalism, good posed a but not what he is moving latterly on the permanent. This begins and long arms. I think, like you, can take it that little bit more, maybe having addresses back to the basket, are facing up closer to the ram, creates more opportunities for him to kick out to utter those three points the team scene, I think, as I would think, I'd want to put a courtyard us- and we're picking roles both ways to acquire off my little bit get a third defended and kicked the ball out, and then it goes down like him.
So make sure ass orderlies, like George, Shall Malcolm Braggin, coming in a you- and I are both- are in full agreement with that and in like putting on us as us as an oblong screener having him short, the ram unregretted Toronto. Maybe it switches those strange, but that's what you want any real funny. I off yadda. They don't switch, that's Goliath not exactly used to doing is being a a ashore defending the screener in a picture of the situation. What are which or whether they drop, I think for the bugs at something season and the plants and long term like putting out of the screen of maximizing, see that actually brings us back to Middleton. I think he's their best like guard. So if I may, on Middleton, have the ball aghast screening for him that two men game created a shot, free and honest and openly for someone else. I think that's how to get this out. I watched came forward through Scylla and I didn't understand why blockages didn't go gigantic and just play what you're saying basically and have yet to submit a b, the bar handlers spread them out with Tommy.
When a Dj Wilson images or throw out the guards completely, because none of your guards are playing well like you should you have to play guards the greatest thing about Janius is he's queen in the chessboard like the way Lebron was recombine Gal. I am anywhere ok yeah this week, we're literally playing and point out that you're gonna guard corollary like he could do it here so late. I was gone, smarter. China's growth, the match up to make more, could play more guards and a work as well He stupidly kept play more coherence and it's a hair. Put three bad guards out there for you and get our asses kick well. I want to see the other version of that. I mean to me so I just like your fourth and fifth players, like whose I think for sharing data. The gaming brockden Janius Middleton ensues other guys. Shred brought both brought and I think, broadened so big, strong aspects. I really like braggin. He just didn't, have any idea where again, so they had to figure out what through Bledsoe I would just come. Let us have a quick sugar myself. Is he really was troubled last again stack eyes if he's play
bad get him out of the castle. Where would you that extension? Would you invisible ink it by? I hope that it is in this boy March. First, I for years, seventy million dollars then we have thought it was a good idea when and how they cause like he's up. He was a are all defensive team player the Seas and he's great defensively by like it. That's the difference between the various yeah in the policies, and so it's light for Bledsoe, like I think it a fine deal by now Looking at it, you know what this knowledge in the play off. Somehow he just shut. The bed it's maybe they would have been better off having twenty million dollars in cash space. They got not a a summer, they got tonnage everyone's up, pretty much nothing Brook Lopez's, Guph, gonna get paid somewhere for sure. I. The camp the more I thought about this, and I like the essential they did it just cause it's he might they save fifteen and twenty million there's just so many point guards there either. Like this summer, like let's say Toronto loses and six inquire leaves. You may get calorie for free this summer. Thought, though, deafened get off that contract and rebuild kindly
think is available for fifty cents on the dollar, Cairo the free agent the angel Russell. If carry bear jammer Et Al Gore, We also have our debate. Jammer Ed garland all coming in the draft, as top for pigs, are people who could be like the creator. Garlic. At some point, too many point guards who could run a team and I want Wanna lock down the second level, but so Gus yeah. I that sort of touches on the all I discussion- words like you'd, do, could put together fight six teams. A good roster. The league is deep at every position, but especially the guard spy. Well there's a so many guys get snubbed and that's all stronger overtime and all this influx of guards coming polygamy, younger guys, continuing to get better like here to find like it's easy to find such a measure. I love me so he loves Booker
he's got his lines. I lie. I love Mitchell. I've loved him since pre draft he's he's. Let me read my somebody's that's from nineteen. Eighty, four upside eighteen, eighty three times four points, a game. Six assists again forty ape and shooting eighty percent free through four ribands again was that pretty good, now it wasn't was wretched. Vs career loser Sometimes you can put it that way or save lives AL you could put, stats and not be anywhere, but you need more context than just ass, though it's like stats on everything. Of course, that goes without saying fully foil agreement there, but you can't look at stance contacts and that's one of the issues I think, with players with media players have of fans just talking about numbers, you need contacts with any stat or you
just to look at Windsor masses. I'm curious for sixty three seems pretty telling me how the players feel about it. I'm Ba boating. You think. How might there phase so tired of the media vote? I think they probably feel like. What, if somebody is an agenda with me. This person doesn't watch leg, even some me where I decide. I'm just voted for I've got this year. Is that a fair way to do it? I don't know that she would. I decided was a fair way to do it. I mean that there is so many guys if I was like Bradley Bitter Campbell Walker, like I'm, bothering me the media between fifty million dollars than losing I'm sure I'll, throw a bronze, gonna love. You put Lamarck soldiers on thirteen over him. The brand played fifty five. James there's only two other guys in the history of the way of Baden. I bade him and were on a team, were they lost and didn't make the plants, and they d only pay two thirds of the season and then either every trade, I'm sorry that ruin their season. It really call. Those guys got worse. I feel catalyze laid only five or games only a hundred and three more minutes
Is it really that's what I've been on the record in years past, as when we get around two thirds, it's really for me. Unless you have a compelling case what curious, like what you think Leubronn back has abroad changes in next year. What's his next play, if he doesn't get Davis like what's the move from abroad at this point hope and pray get. Somebody and forty thorny I'm getting lifelike Jimmy Bala the Summer camp. I don't know what he does. I think I'd I mean it's hard to say on another year, when you have the broadest far lingering like bad. That's interesting that someday. I m fascinated by the idea flipping like foreign lawns. Oh oh, I think you are sure I don't even think you'd need the throne for to get crystal that big icons. I think lines over his by larger might be too much vaunted. Be cool, fit like to hear what I would love it. I would like to offer my favorite vague trades. I'm totally here, for that is the cap work out. That could do that's what you want
depend on what they do and free agency if they have the cat space to absorb Chris Balls contract. That would work, but you you would want to sign a guy's obedient to find somebody, somebody salary to make it work the tough salary to match their. He could renounce just a bad Anybody- and I think, the only I said, I'm on the books are like Le Brian and coups moaning ground. They take it through it to create a space for the average or absorbing Paul. But if you want to sign a guy and trade for Chris, all it would be a little bit well. I think I think if it happened it's because they struck out Anita Zactly, the two most fun fake trades or that one and bent summits from a column trades. I will not have a better it s really fight. I hate that trade which, for her for fully both teams are really likes macroeconomics, both on a better one, but for fully I'd. I don't like that trade I think been Simmons. I am, I always do we should for the wrong hand and how you don't you
about a cast serious. You rightly stated that the user is about Devon. Booker is the best way and the league of images, and does he absolutely does he shoots over seventy percent of his jump slots using is right. We don't even think issued city more. He takes a horse adds a gas ended by giving uses this right hand my thought about she'd by, but then in its like with joy. Bead he's your number one player. If you're the sector's, however, and beat somebody who is fragile, he has proved not to be durable in the past at twenty five years, only moved around, like you is forty, five, sometimes, and with Ben Timmins. If you're talking about the best fit for him as a player, it's like a yawn us ask yeah and he's not gonna, get that with Philly, but to me Philly then Simmonds, superstar insurance. If anything horrible ever happens to draw bead the beach have been sentenced to be the next guy you can build around. De my com is good. Two years later it, but for years
scarcely I just don't I don't I don't. I haven't seen enough since dating back to the Boston answers last year and I was and in the camp of that guy's gonna be a superstar, and you start with that Boston Terriers! You go through this whole season. The share, I don't think he did any of the checkpoints I wanted to hit. Not one of them, I mean say to me for Simmons his his game is so unique, asking a very specific role like, if did he play with Dame in Annabelle Adobe reader Roma off a great pick, unrolled like art. Thou would be like that. That's one of the things that is a good case. He doesn't like this trade, not you and I both both have written about been summoned to the short roared unclean Portland right. You do that the great because, as I fear radically been Simmons like being your dream, I'm off Dame vacillating. Could you get a guide and switch reposition defence dying shore? All financial efforts, ISM pass a throw goes, saying. However, I ve been here how that codes, Zack Low, saying,
He is that's not all that he wants to play. Heave still wants to be a guy on the ball, so you need to have a guy is fully committed and buys into their role in shown that that's where my concern is with Ben and I will be opening turning him if they found the Sixers I foresee not foresee J now and I'm not sure what to be ass. Dear, it's hard to find a tray them I'm not getting, whereby the siege out anything do you think, there's clippers potential for him. If they strike out on everybody for who Ben Sue for fur like through you trading coppers, though Cosette I think the coopers have to come out of this summer with a name. I would pretty, bad anything in the current trade, but if quite for some reason, Toronto sneaks by I'm lucky these next few games, Walkie completely falls apart throughout. Makes the fat ass the Red and come back, which we named talk about that here and there go like six game. Seven games, maybe even when the longer they got, makes a tougher friend here. Would you trade for, though we thought
shareholders Alexander and there will just make a trade have been in trade today with the German as a true peace. Another forty five, I actually think coopers are smart enough not to be like the though Gorman Red Sox mentality we gotta get out come out of this with a star, bye, bye, bye, feel they wouldn't do that, but Simmons I would love to see someone somewhere else. I would maintain that I would love to see him on a different him. I think so too. I mean like, though, the bead Simmons core works, clearly like they were in a game: seven baubles, Definitely there these comments finals by tell him to fit the fit. Still isn't probative tenable, that's really interesting. Tatum summits terribly birthday with, indeed for sure. And then Simmons in Boston. If correctly and we leave, let carry go and then we go Siemens, Heyward Jail and Brown, whoever the Pixar horrified and put team and citizen. I would do it now. The awesome for cod
this content alone bigger the content for us looking about it. Having demonstrate my servant, land, Celtic Ben solely, that is what I wanted, and ever so many bed citizens is at stake They'll be fascinating, led servants for data. I would do it yeah you do for both yeah. I think so. How would you do it with Canada, if it is done, I filed out the has altered the score him and Tatum Long term, but I'm saying, if you're fairly, would you do it? Simmons reform Philly take ten percent yeah. Yeah I would rather Tatum if a boss, I M, so glad tat I went on. I would like to have a free to attempt four guys, who averaged at least fourteen points a game in their first two years and shot forty five percent in China figure? If there is some sort of Oh yeah, I that Europe and he had put in the ice lack cause I am convinced that scoring fourthly, to show early that they get to the line to really get to the highest possible level, and he
hasn't news like like three points when a game last year in the So really should the best possible compromise. Glenn re sounds interesting, one to me when you set out yet he was incredible for a couple years there, it's more like the MIKE Mitchell skies who scored, but they weren't really like difference makers, and at Part that worries me as if they were adamant all year with him, go to the I'm gonna go lineages wasn't do we know that for sure I guess, coaches wronged him all your longing. I think they were sure right. It is. I think and over again their explain it to him all the different benefits. I came from going to the rim, I think, would Tatum Paul, Georgia's wonder how popular persons for him yeah Tatum, like Paul George powders, and they get line a lot earlier in his career either, and that was always wanted. My criticisms of George, when he was in any Anna, he wasn't a guy who could consider lately taken to the next level. And get to the basket and become like twenty five point, four million plus score consistently. It would Tatum that's good.
To be the hurdle, and it wasn't really until this past year I have for so. The George has made that leap to become a guy gets, live Cecily Georgia's way more athletic than Tatum. I wouldn't. I wouldn't see Georgia's like a passable path for him. He hears, I thought I would like our need for Tatum you'd want them to be more like a pall peers. Chris Middleton, my point forward type as a ceiling. Gimme he's got I accept what has he said the first three years for Paul George Free through attempts. One point: seven two point three point: five: last year, employed for the free trade with the affair with somewhat that's a better jail and brown path. Paul George, I don't think that's the shooting paneling, flew in MRS Aubert, on the south, expanded. That's what I'm hoping for having I gotta raises drug trade value for money, Shearer statistical standpoint, babies leave. I do
I thought, we'd jail and did the last four months was really really encouraging. I'm here illegally right, I'm a lot of accuracy to share power. They re ass. I didn't want to come back to that was impressive, reaffirm. Tatum, though I mean, I don't think, he's got enough credit for his improvements on the defensive and oars a path for though it s like s his scoring it's only year. Two still, twenty one years old, but his defences improved dramatically since this time in college and as has is passing I think those are two positive indicators for moving forward, so you would keep. These two together, unless Davis is worth, Tatum browser you tenure, I mean it depends on what else is on the table for trades, I be open trading jail and you were. I would keep data. Jail embrowned last forty two games: fourteen and five forty nine percent shooting thirty nine percent from three to point. It This is very true percentage of that stretch. Sixty eight-
I think would Brown. I remember pre draft I like doing bosses foresee leave you brown and Non shooter Ben, as a non cheer. Brown is just an average shooter and I still browser more than an above, average shooter, I think, a free, That would you do hey wording. Fourteen and twenty four kindly that's intriguing, subsume he walks similar. Every wax candles making three tuna Methodist emerges worn out very near Sharp Alan. I think you need it. I think regardless The treaty in a trap consolidate those pick. Somehow I can add to three more rookies to this Rostov you can't do that diversity, especially here they already had put right in situations where, if they're not playing their gis Sally might actually been good at a different time, and at this point, is you don't play for two years? What our situation, everything for olive oil ass, a really like semi, and I think I usually have
it traded, Marcus, Boris in February and just given semi their minutes and cross their fingers and might have been better for a variety of reasons. Yeah. I don't know why. I we say every summer, but I really feel like this is the summer when our house can a break with you. Gotta get confidant bearing on assigns the unwary level, and I think this is we're gonna go for the rest of our lives as fans cause these shorter contracts and the whole plan everything is just this is where we go. I hope so content radar. Quickly and these serious. Could you see a path where okey AM loses game. I've game six, and we just go what the hell does yonder. I think, sir, but I think what we saw these past few games, I mean I I thought Milwaukee would come out making adjustments made game for, like you do with it, but they made they made none at I'll, be watching tonight how they adjust lionesses role benefit if, if Toronto contain
containing him. I could be easily see I'm having a lot when that some, I guess I did so. I thought lucky wins, but it's gonna take seven and I can't believe it and by the way, no. In a one gamer there then you're really going you're. Looking down your bench in your leg, its decision, important endeavour, Wainwright, were you just can't look down any go unanswered those four guys, those nineteen. I find anybody else, it's a different animal fresh. I love it. So my favorites that very thing was great values have died. These by my Scott like a little bit goodbye man, it's it's not crunch time and without the conversation with trying on the first two games now and then suddenly, Norman Paul's playing all the Valley that's right. That's that's our home court because we will see how that's why I think, like Muggy is a different aim at home, even though they did they scuff that First Boston game. I think those of flu for a variety of reasons, but for them
but it's a younger team that should be better at home and where we say this, but this is send the case. This would be a best fire in the in the serious errors. However, I wanted I yoke, it was the best part they did when this one feels like at some point. It she's gonna be coerced. That's all I want to buy quite health, however ass they were three games. Five days even when he is he's had reached down about Ray. I asked my pretty damn oftener and games and then ass, the closets bothering him since twenty sixteen, not just last season. Like it. He said he's on hurt, says fine, but Then he s really not much that. Yes, the guard yacht us an squire, thirty five points again efficiently. She I'd heard its legitimately done that they do it. This way where you go every other night. The conference fiat is the hardest. You complain yeah for sure then ran when their spacing shit out teams and plan for for games like if the earth one should the first round. Should be really congested and
it should be every other night. Let's get through that, an Algerian have sweeps you have. I am, I guess, for tv they want to every night and these, but I think you're right deftly basketballs. I heard by that by not by every single ratings expert would bring her, like understanding what nights when it bar like get less ratings by out assume it would make sense to take one night often give seems more space more time for off days and maximize the products through in situations like lie, get hosting all? I sure I am like one great ally that support the seriousness everything. So I have two more things, then we're done. Fight it over again. I think I would have voted for Bradley the bill I got stuck with the nope last thing. Mitchell Fit. As I remember now, I felt Design right now bills ages. Looking at our voting like oh my gosh, now it's in my commission whole supermax thing. I really feel like I had really, if that it. If I
What about that for more than twenty seconds, I would have been leg. What I find the vote that costs in the supermax, which is a terrible. It has a lot of responsibility. Is you have it shouldn't? I don't think it should make a difference with the contracts. I hate the fact that an VP defensive player the year all NBA makes any difference in the contracts a player can she's even shootin at all, and I might be changed as his aid aid should not make a difference. I think it right to have like media in some form determine the wards thing from other environment standpoint. He was one of the basic best six guards, but the team was thirty to fifty in that matters. To me, you know, and I know, while got hurt, they traded Dubray, which was stupid, but I don't know any in the east to win thirty two games like what are we saying that points I just gonna do it, but now I now like shit, see, I wonder about Bradley Bill is too cautiously MBA. I've been Randy Weapon of Scarborough threats I mean, I guess my number one for the Lakers out out pair
thirty cents on the dollar. I love to see that the feel regret for Aldrich inefficient posts, who can over his floor? I don't wanna, hear dated eighteen, I don't know how to team was a top sixteen in the west and newest him into Rosen that were there two guys in every fourth quarter I watched ass. I think I just think the Bronx prepared the guy. I will we ve already establishing or care about wins and losses Last thing that railways important lasting Are we the bronze? Later next year we positive gap Were hung over some positive resembling the army of I'm never one percent positive or any player, because unless I get the best player in a way which which he's pretty close to being the best foreign lay, it is still not our I think big picture. The Lakers have had so much uncertainty. They really want to start over again yet babbled for the franchise to amplify after one year. I can answer them doing and what are you treat him for then? What is it he s? Very trade he's not three ordeal, Lange, I don't think he's gonna first,
ok, see your hundred censure money. I point I must say I am as he's. Gonna do Devon, Bugger ever plain uclaf can yet further down the signs are no idea but ass. I was there. I just for the record for the aggregator said, there's echoed, say I've I think and buggers really counted, but at some point you ass, the wind something. How did you do in Kentucky we would like to ask you? If you don't seem like a back seat role, seventh man, it was weird they re use them. At him when, though I they make the they made, the title tarragon. Well, they offer What year was the final figure? My was gone from those kinds of time. Ischia. That's right! Would you rather Fox Broker Fox, because the defensive edge, I think,
often says underrated, though I do like watching you guys Yazoo Dynamic here this buckets fanatics here, but if it's pretty close for me, it's close love. Why could we have to keep we have to keep standing of our battles? Irony Obama for me, is already we inherit, as I say, Lama him radishes already. When will you know what our work out like care say they have annex as in incredible threes, Adobe regarding Bobby lovers work. That's usually you to leave us to become the new, drew
yes he's gonna work ads for the poor, as their hands has reminded me that there is always jerk? Scarcely when you do your part, we are to get our policies for yeah. We're done we're doing a video shop to this from local according to mock drafts today. That John allows under. Yes, you be with us on this topic as some things, but sick bay, tug, bad zipper, critter having a high sports IQ super import it. Certainly one of the reasons I have succeeded, my high sports IQ off the charts Mensa level, I'm kidding but there are some athletes out there. I Q has been one of the biggest parts of their game. Like my favorite athlete ever labour, well comes the hiring. You don't need a high hiring, a key just the interpreter: soup, critters, powerful technology skins. Thousands, Erasmus, find people right experience for your job detectors. That there is even learns. What kind of candidates you like and invites more to apply Cypriot or so effective
we're out of five employers who postpones a pretty at aquatic candidate through the site within the first day and my listings contrived for free yeah good is uprooted outcome, Slash, bs, zip, recruiter, dotcom, slash, as super greater, is the smallest way too I David Epstein is here, he wrote a book called range, which is your second book. The first one was about sports genes, yeah. Yet it's funny when you see the cover the first book in the bookstore, you think it's about like actual chromosomes, but it's actually not it's about what makes an athlete great. Basically, what is it but I think about a I've, I won't have you forever and ranges best interest in a mere, as as the soccer parent, which you know, club soccer has gone into this direction of it so tat answer me: you can't play other sports and yet in the
back, my head. I still have what everyone back and Alex Morgan told me four years ago and a has package of them and both of them were like yeah. We didn't just pay soccer like Abbe played three sports out. Morgan was like a soft bob where the demon play club soccer until she was like sixteen. The mentality of sports parents is that you, get in earlier. You gotta like specialise in it, and just do it all the time and the dope waiting ass. So, let's start because that was basically the first Do your book was Fetter Verses Tiger and the data here. It's interesting you mention it did out Morgan in play. Club to sixteen. I was just looking at stats from Dynamo Zagreb, the declared the academy the produces, like all the players that we're on Croatia's national team dna and everyone thinks like, while their developing these great players, one of those players came there before they were sixteen there recruiting those players, not making them Leah but you said my started writing about you're the first chapter of range, this, the so called Roger versus Tiger problem, is as Malcolm and I were sort of framing it. When, when we debated
the Tiger woods. Everyone knows that story of early specialization of at least absorbed suggest an that's me. The motto we ve extrapolated from for all other sports rights, become this like early specialization, gonna cottage industry for like a gigantic cottage and The rod federal model where he played a ton different sports mother was a tennis coach refused to coach him force him to continue playing badminton basketball soccer long after his beard.
Specialized and basically wanted to see which one of these is the norm and me look across different research, the tracks, athletes and different sports. What you see is that the Roger pattern is the ubiquitous one. Athletes play a range of sports again broad general skills, the so called sampling period. They learn about their abilities, their interests may delay specializing, that's that's the norm, and so that was kind of how I got interested in mentioning a soccer parent. When I started writing about this, one of the first things that happened was soccer enthusiasts were like maybe your crappy, like american sports, but like not soccer, basically was the response. Yes, I I made very sure to go. Look at what research existed in soccer
and it turns out it's it's the same, I'm right after Germany, one the World CUP. This paper came out showing that the players went to national team play more different sports in matter. If they were in a formal team, but they played more different sports, they had more unstructured play all we have until they were twenty two. Then players were at lower levels. Basically, so it does show up with people except it very well. I was shocked when Abbe was talking about a passion. She was that everybody should play everything for as long as they passed. Again and she was saying but they now is. I think it was in your boat, but at the beach point she made was leg. Had the other sports helped her. With certain skills in the sports she sat around like she was saying where the reason she was so great, a headers was because, when she play back The bar. She was really get a rebounding in trying to figure out what their riches lay off the rim was in the angles and just kind of red when a bow was in the air was going to happen and she was
that's why I was getting headers, because I was good. Rita, as a matter of our not positive, that's true, but that makes sense to me. That's actually really trusting, that's her intuitions. I think athletes are often there. Twist about how they do what they do is often wrong, but that that's like kind of dead on with what scientists would say where, if you play multiple different, knowing their lingo invasion sports, which means you're trying to get past and want to try to get a ball passed them, whether that soccer football volleyball whatever it turns out that you then need less time to learn any new skills in other sports at are like
and it seems like this is actually something you don't once I gotta get out of sports in range that that there's there is a kind of knowledge where called using procedures. We can teach techniques or so called closed skills that someone can execute this, doesn't matter someone's learning, math or soccer. Yes, what you really want is the person to learn how to match a strategy to a problem, not just how to execute a procedure could which want, as the skill acquisition scientists call, it is transfer the ability to take this knowledge in these skills and apply to stuff you ve never seen before and as the levels go up, that's which are having to do and so this multi sport diversification is variable challenges and playing in different size, pitches, indifferent surfaces, crease these general models, you sort of frameworks to allow you to match strategies problems, and then you can learn all those technical skills were easily later. We, had a piece in the book about soccer parents going to soccer experts and being leg. I want
my kid to be like that kid rate and the people turn them more than they should pay a lot of sports, but basically the pants. I don't want them like that person now and it's like this is given take for theirs just two people having supper conversations exactly that was this world class coach and scientists It is big problem. Now. Is people come to him? Look at some of the players. He's help develop and say I want my kids with that players. Doing now not I want my kid doing without player was doing when they were twelve the skills without apparent we'll go. Sessions are doing when they're going to write right and a new forces when there were seven exactly and you could teach them these. You know cause skills, or these sort of techniques for how to run plays I win at eight and nine, but it's pretty clear. I think now that the waited to get the best ten year old team has nothing to do with the way to develop the best when you're older Basically, I think the most frustrating thing for me. You know I have a kid. My daughter can. Basically she could play through sports it when
and have a great time doing it. The problem is less sport legs. Soccer is to be on one of the best. Which is, when you really any good. Those cops by other time, and you know, really have a choice you have to practice for days a week because that's what that He was doing and that's what's banister we're, says the way to succeed and that I have to break in C Europe, my daughter biscuit- does not have time to do another sport. The right way should love to play to, but there it's impossible, to do that and schoolwork. And I wonder like from Socrates, you, like especially out here in southern California. It's ten months a year. I wonder if there is no going back from that now it is, I think, just the way it is becoming a cottage industry and in private and how much obtained cars and then how much the tournaments are and people are just spent
and others economic incentives to keep it that way and there's no. It stops at right like when I was living in Brooklyn. Recently there was a: u six travel soccer team that met across a strategy insane may sixes and say it is not because they couldn't find didn't. Have competition the city of nine million people Riah. This isn't anything set everything to do with the adults, financial incentives, not with the kids, development, where what we know about optimal development is really bumping into like these other incentives structures, and if a coaches incentive is to win the eight year old championships or whatever ten year old twelve year old, then they should specialised those kids. But I think we need when you get like what France started decades ago, where they said. Ok, we're gonna, wouldn't have kids exposed early, but lots unstructured play different. Surfaces even different balls, different size and in number of players and different challenges. So they get the kids in the pipeline, but because I think, playing multiple sports is really just a proxy for varying the challenges that your facing regret, and so they diversified their pipelines. Had let's get kids in from all kinds of different background,
and they have the coaches. This one guy help design design the system Ludovic. The brew says: there's no remote control and what it means is the coaches shouldn't be micromanaging, because its unstructured play reaction develop that kind of creativity that you can execute at a much faster level that you need when you move up pilot So I think, if you look at a place like France, you see that they ve found some media. Where they ve managed to still have kids being exposed and even in let me pretty early but incorporate the best of what sport science shows us. The thing is they have like a much more continuous pipeline, gonna use up till the end. We don't have that all new, as what we have is a huge number of athletes in the pipeline, and you know some good ones come out just by filled But we don't dont have a good system here, my daughter's coach, she just ass. We just like that this guy Jacob to tell he
really is really passion about mixing up the practices so like we do a lot of footsore american teams. Don't do, but the south american teen astute ton of going to the beach in practising like basic cakes and just everything to kind of shake them out of the monotony of the same practice, every single time which seems like a make sense ram, and you can even go further. You return you this whole thing in the book that that was fascinating about when people memorize patterns, which you can do in sportswriter here, like a high school basketball team. Can memorize the patterns of what to do and oppress. Envy really get and basically cheat. This is the right, but if through their matter that damages being bridge Basque, operate in sectors like that too cuz. We notice like some of the teams we play in look out for you. There really did they have like pattern off swear. It's like a bug us here. Kids. Do these two things,
every time and you can kind of shut down after while because their basically run in the same thing it's really hard a job people out of that which I think one of the problems with the house. Soccer in America now is like it's it's our. Development and at that actually like people playing an athlete slick. Interacting on that's exactly. I mean that if I had to pick like one theme of of rain, inside and out of sports, that I was writing about. It would be that there are things that can cause you to win or have very quick and poor performance short term that systematically undermine you're developing in the long term, and that's like exactly what you're talking about the analogy ask of I dare to like we're. The EU system which Connor rewards people have the ball time, be yet doesn't work of team like the team play were seen the where's right now, Thou Katy the bomb movement and things
you just can't really have an aids, it rewards different style, the James Hearted stuff, that's right, enemy, nay, you! Now! I think it's like their second grade national championships. They don't have that because it's good for development right working like throwing one handed shot. They have it because, like those are customers, and if they are non secondary team, and the third rate team in Lahti say you teams now they're, not popping up for kids. Their popping up around kids like there's like a kid who is good in the team, starts assembling around them. So you know again the good thing we have as a huge pipeline, so we can get away with lot of inefficiencies but you don't. I don't it's good, I think. Even at the NBA level, people are so afraid of breaking things that they often don't implement. Some of the best you know what they're guys in the NBA that are like taping ankles and getting paid like three times as much as they will the next showered down so like. Thank you tried to help someone too much. They get hurt you're you're in trouble, but I think even looking a k d like when he went to golden
all the sudden he's seen facing these different kinds of challenges. We have to facilitate our you have to like get a backup point guard, and I think that was this, so called mixed practice for him. I think it's actually made him. Even at that level I can much more complete. In player. You talked a lot about patterns that matches in sports, but outside of sports to an that's one of the reasons you know it s. Like tennis, it's not you that they have unviable hand. I coordination, but. They played so many hundreds of thousands. Of the same type of points here that they can just reckoning the things at a time. So you you because it was this different pattern than he can recognize. But can you explain that is that I was really fast one of the best hinders the last fifty years, but could figure had a hit Jenny Finch as an she struck him out, because it was this different patterns.
You can recognize, but can you explain that cuz? I thought that was really fast then coming. This was a question I had where, when I saw a softball pitcher pitching to baseball players- and I you know just like kind of tried to calculate quickly like Balls- go in like six thousand four hundred and forty three seat, that's like longer than the fastball, these guys are used to sing. Why can't I hit it if they have reaction speed fast enough to hundred mile per hour fastball? They can't hit a six mile Powerstop when it's bigger turns out, they dont have reaction, speed fast enough to hit that, like their minimum reaction, speed is two hundred millisecond gift of a second ass. The time takes us to see the balls in front of you that information to cross the synopsis of the back, your brain and for you to initiate muscular action not to swing just to initiate its half the total flight time of the pitch yeah and- and we do need to have a visual system capable of tracking object, is its angular position. Changes that fast gets close. Our head said advice. I keep your eye on the ball. Nonsense, can't do it like kid could closer. I,
when the balls half win, if it weren't like psychologically upsetting it wouldn't affect them at all, and so with the players are not to do, is judge movements of the torso rotation of the shoulder orientation of the arm. The flicker of the pitch, which is the flashing pattern at the seams, makes it spends the group that into so called chunk export scientist it's like one data signal as soon as the balls out of hands, as going here, there Swinger don't smoke and have to make that decision right away. So, when they're, faced with such underhand, throw unfamiliar rotation of the joints, unfamiliar spin of the ball on family, moving to the torso they're, totally stripped this information that makes them appear to have superhuman reflexes when actually there, just picking up these choose to see. What's coming at a time I thinking about that park. As I read the book the last two days, about our watching South Korea Guard staff Gary and here Obviously that is gonna be an outdated staff. Is that is good of a vast bob where, but
This is one game in whose guarding and we're like seven times he knew it. Staff was gonna do before he did it and I ve never seen somebody can. I guess I had a time where it what's that Weird things, staff was can do from thirty feet in just be there like either stripping m are getting in his way and ethical. I may sort of said stay plating. They probably played a million times when they occur AIDS when they are in high school energy, like ingrained in his head ass. He does this night things. That's right! That's why you need, that's another reason why, even at the elite level, you have to have this incredibly variable challenges that you're facing all the time because that forces you to be more variable and you dont get into situations like that right here, where other people are unable to anticipate and despite your patterns as well, I think we see things like baseball, sometimes with some of the japanese pitchers like the come over and have weird wind up in there now you know loan the lights out their first year and then they systematically get worse and worse and worse, every here, the ass they people. Just to that challenge, do you feel like we?
we ve talked about on this past overlaps couple months about somebody like Houston. Even somebody like Walkie, where dad? specific our offensive system. That's weird built around one grape, where here and there do the same thing alive, but if you haven't seen it that way, It works really well, but over the course of two weeks, not good for the Blair. When you keep saying it, you kind figure now, and it seems like that's, what's happening used in the last couple years. Where the longer the serious goes. The tougher is for them to get stuff. That yeah, which makes me think, like Rahzel I talked about this all the time about the different between the regular season, the playoffs and in the regular season. If you're, basically attaching yourself to this system that might not be, idea, first, seven game serious with with the with the way people can learn patterns. Here I mean I'm speculating, but that makes a ton of sense to me because
You know, I see why you want to do that if your player is as good as James harden you, maybe he can overcome some of that stuff, but but I think just like seeing the same picture again- and we see see this in all these sports that require these so called anticipatory skills where you have to react faster than you could. If you were just like waiting to see what happens, that smelly are is, is gonna work against you hear the ones running that systems red Saxon Ribeiro is another when they put him down, In times a year, they put him the other three or four playoffs after a while, they I mean they didn't and crushing, but they had way more success against anybody here. Yes, sir, I think absolutely that got the problem for the playoffs. If you can't, you know, if you have this system, the people are getting used to like seeing the same pitcher more and more and more it's a good thing for best. Because at I still vote for Bob Movement, an old school teamwork- yes, a guy I was really invested in the no Katy warriors, because it was I area. This is all who were by bad that I love another. Take a lot here, any minute. It still works, obviously Nike
with racy it and say like no, not us, so I made sure to put two full pages of citations with a whole bunch of soccer studies back there just for them. This time This guy comes in, tells us we're in this right, again the soccer community like like they did with the sports Jean my first book will, with rain, see it and say like no, not ass. I made sure to put two full pages of citations with a whole bunch of soccer studies back there just for them this time. I think some will be relieved, though, because I think what what the science is telling us is. The development in some ways is easier on the kitten, the parent. Yes, I think so angry, but some might say, like you know whether again people with financial interest for force kids to do things that they shouldn't be doing or deselect them earlier than they should that's a different question. But I think some parents will be relieved and- and some will will the same way I was when I was right about the ten thousand hour rule will like. Be really upset cause. It's like part of their identity or whatever the problem is. Competition is still the best way to get better in our country that's why
younger brothers and younger sisters always have an advantage or trying to catch up to the older, siblings and get their asses kicked by them when they're, four and five and six but they're always trying to catch up, and you know, Zachary is the same way where you do get better when you're playing where we have on their best. I think ten or twelve team, Southern California when we play the other. Teams? Sometimes it takes us. It takes our team, like in a twenty minutes to catch up with the speed of in the town of their the team, and then you kind get there, and I think at some point that the petition prior matters which bigger than that becomes a vicious cycle of well. The only way to pay thus themes is to put in all this work to be done those things but now ran through the specialization thing, exactly in an that's and there's nothing wrong with company competitions great, I just a question of what other stuff you're doing and what kind of development that competition is causing like fits causing you to run all these plays, and do these things that there are certain hampering the creative aspect that I think the french development system has got
this down. They have competitions, but their varying the sky. In France, I hate when they figures there, and here I will, but it seems like they did and they have lots of competitions, but even the times different and they don't really do a lot with the competitions other than use them for development right. It doesn't qualify you to play something else, so they really diversified pipeline in a way that the words were the eagerly is about competition, of course, would say a regular insoluble, mother. So let's take a break dogma. Belvedere produced in one of the world's longest running distilleries Belvedere vodka, the world's finest on natural back, a part of a six hundred year. Polish back make tradition. Belvedere with Non GMO. Polish rye, pure water, no additives recognised for quality name, the icy world vodka producer of the year two thousand fifteen to those sixteen and two thousand and seventeen enjoy a delicious cocktails belvedere back at an remember to always drink research.
Possibly one of the things you talked about in the book was people do the same thing over and over again, no sportsmen sports and some of the weird examples of when that gets thrown off Now you have to use instinct because situations completely different than what you ve been trained for some people still just gravitate towards what the training was that I just get in the car, and I think that use like a really sad example about firefighters yeah, where, when their when a fire goes in, what direction they don't realize is gonna happen in, though in a forest, and point you just have to go. I got to drop all my tools and just hightail it at air. They keep the tools Is there a train or even where I work here, that it is very late in the book yeah
that's you know one of the responses that has been now to start doing a so called variable training with them for this into leaving where they have to face like improvisational situations, basically to try to like loosen them up from those pattern Basically, so that's like the new kind of impossible there. I think it's gonna be very, very difficult. I think so. About doctors, same thing like they're supposed to follow the same steps, every single thing they do, but then, if something pops up, it's like all this, like I was looking to these databases of airline. You know like commercial airline disasters and it's always the same thing. It's basically, some unfamiliar situation comes up and I decided just to like go with the the thing that they always. Basically, even when, like simple actions, would would save him. That was one of the craziest stats. I didn't. I most gonna believe this is trees, said leg
at all the major airline crashes, seventy three percent. It was with the staff that had worked together for the first time. I was like what the fuck in any no yeah. They should announce that before you get on the plane, not right. I ask why this is the first time we ve worked together LEO great right. I write it can have a cocktail of you and you have you wanna know like that. You should ask when you're walking by the UK or sign together and in one of the things that happens then is one he was unfamiliar with each other, even more likely to stick to like a rigid original plan, the air to improvise with each other. So it exacerbates the problem of falling into like the same old patterns basically eat him. As in the book, but I think that salaries challenger thing was a good example of the opposite right totally where something is going wrong and he just improvise is on the fire because he had are there experience accumulated from over the years needs like actually will do this year, but the book probably said to do that you pay, as I glare
I just got lay in the plan of doing this is right and he had experienced mean he was like a military pilot before right, and so they face like a whole. Bunch of you know, challenges where they have to improve before they get to where they are firstly, I one thing you didn't talk about as much with even the sports transports that fear with the specialization in the home and your everything was burnt out here and they did. You say are they in a chapter about that? I did think about it except I wanted to stay. I also thought about doing you're in. Bernard Injury, because sometimes the related like there was a school data to, it is always physiologist gave me where they had their performers. A bunch of her former Olympians learn the basics of several other performers. Whence he had just to see what had not daring to perform it and they found it lowered their injury rates by like a third big. They re measure their injuries compared to canadian gymnastic. And so we don't exactly know why there's some protective effect of doing multiple this when they work less of their original. My little bit less, and so I thought
got injury now thought already not burn out, but I decided, based on my past experience with feedback from parents to focus on skill development and say I'm not just gonna make you feel good. You know for your kids, mental health or you know their physical health. This is actually the way to go for skill development. I thought that would be like a moron actual kind of message, but but it's for sure to having a little bit in the chapter on music in range. I mentioned studies where, when kids aren't just like, just practice a ton. They go through a sampling period like athletes and when they find an instrument and genre they like they ramp that practice up like crazy. So it's almost like they find their fit and then take off in and most them when they quit. In these studies report a mismatch between the instrument they wanna play in the one they they actually play. You know, and so I think the burn out a lot easier to happen. If your matched well with what you're doing even cause gonna get burned out his produced. Like ten thousand. Gas over the last two years- the number of people- I don't think so. He is
common Syria is pretty good, is in jail guys. I was there, The burnt out, thank as marine ravages, absent most famous example here, but there's been other. And I think you know figures gaiters gymnastics allowed a tennis buyers. Yeah The kind of lonelier by yourselves sports, I think, are, are a little more dangerous. That's why I want to buy my my kids to plan teams and ninety stuff individually cause. I think the solar, Therefore, as me, Tennyson super interesting one because- and this might be something to think about with like your daughter, a little bit where there there's this famous study of swedish tennis player. Some from went on to become top ten in the world and what it found was at us when kids would develop any sort of more again, it weighs you're playing different types,
games and when someone would identify them as being good and having potential, they would then be moved right into what they call a more restrictive environment were now there told drilling drilling drilling, and especially for girls like if someone identified a girl is talented, then they mediately took them out of that environments. Had I know what to do with you in almost all of them, quick by the time their eighteen. Every single one was the thing you had in an about Thea. How is it was the did the army or the Navy here that or the air force I mean they're all in there are one point or yea about about damn, trying to get people basically to break them, so they their quit or stay here yeah, but then to many people acquitting. So they decided to give them monetary stuff to convince
this day, but other people who would have stayed anyway just took the money in anybody would acquit anyway. I didn't take what I fear that that was a half billion dollar taxpayer me somewhere is accidentally. This was writing about this, the psychological concept of grit that sometimes like test for now to survey twelve questions. Half of them asked you about your resilience and have asked about your so called consistency of interest. And the most famous study was done at West Point- use Military academy looking at cadets who got through beast Barracks, which is like the rigorous physical and emotional orientation, six weeks long aware, high school students, fishing and officers in training and what these researchers found most famously Angela Duckworth was that grit was a better predictor of food, make it through beast and where these traditional measures like tests and nepotism and all this other stuff but in so there's been all this emphasis on great that's what we're looking for. But then, if you look at those cadets who make it through beast, they then get through the military academy. And then later on, starting since about
ninety nineties, almost half of drop out of the military on the day that they are allowed and that's it more and more and more and more and turns out it's because, as we move to a knowledge economy, basically, so that what your mentioning is to keep them. Is this high ranking general said we should defend West point because its teaching officers to get out of the military, which well isn't so we tried to throw money at them and all the people willing to leave left in the ones who are gonna stay took their half billion dollars collectively, and it turned out that since we met knowledge economy and you can move around jobs and take your skills and goes to something else. The highest potential candidates were just doing that, and so
we started to have a little more success or one that they lost their grid or whatever, like some knows. You learn things about yourself, your early twenties and decide to change, so they started having success with this thing. Called talent based branching, where they they let people sample. Just like the athletes, just like the musicians over them sample a bunch of different stuff. They pay them with a coach and say: let's reflect on you know, did you like that? Were you good at it, and then they try something else. They keep zigzagging until they maximize this concept. I talk about range, match, quality, the degree of fit between your info an and in what you do so they found the creating a talent market was much more effective than throwing money, a people, and then the great thing was a personal thing for you, which you run about books. How you were here below rich track, star heading in the college, you walk on a team of by the end you're one of the best guys on the team. Yeah yeah below average track star had to get on em you, but Yeah, I was a walk on in college and I was like literally the worst person on the team and and stuck with it ended up, as you know,
she record holder and when this award for the athlete who achieve significant success in the face of unusual challenge in difficulty, which, like manual towns, difficulty, was I just then suddenly a third rate exactly and you and small sums really looked to me like this guy- was pretty funny, because I I didn't square high in the great test, because my interests are always changing. Rightly out of him sports illustrated pro public. I, like I, used to be a science grad student, so it's like. That would seem to testify. They have some kind of grit, but I still in school well on the survey, because I have a lot of interests. I am fast. By grit and become warmer fascinate every year by during the NBA draft? because every year people get robed into the same deeds that it's a man, the great the work out threes and then insight in the game tape. You know efforts a problem. But other than that you know
just turn that switch on its all the tools are there and its like that? I use it doesn't make it and it's the people who, as I know, that as a dog man that guy fights God what a competitor those guys make it go through and look at the best fifteen guys league and all those deeds are people their play really hard. Can miss sometimes with sometimes I think people are greatly boomers, yeah hi, The biggest thing come out of college was here that efforts in another games doesn't care. Times he cares care. Sometimes he doesn't doesn't is not tough enough here. I don't know why became tougher. That's why these guys get you get impact because of the James hardens everyone's rather forbearance. But then, if you go back and about James hardens life. I think he had allowed a grid to get through, like his shouted another ship that he went through. So I don't know how do you figure that out of fear and a beer? Gm? That's interesting us something?
mention is is actually a profound point there, which is great, is not the stable characteristic people. Think of it, as we actually change like this. This concept on it from them raise till the end of history, illusion where we all recognise we ve changed. Our personality traits ran in the past, but then think we're knock em changed much in the future. That turns out not to be true and so predicting grit going forward. I think, is a really difficult thing to do where, if, if you're, the draft nursing effort is a problem for this guy, that's obviously not not a good sign, but I think especially with big eyes, especially with the guy resell- and I were talking about this recently at stake. If you're over Six eight and you don't try that hard. I'm crossing of my draft work, I just you prove me wrong, so be it, but I'm gonna be right, more times and run and that one, but if your life, the guy who's undersized by an inch and a half, but you re, to give a shit in fighting for everything. Now you might be Pga Tucker from
yeah and I rather had I'd rather roll the dice with that. You know and you'll never get this stuff perfect, but I think, like you said, you can go back and look at like a lot of the antecedents of harden's performance, and maybe you could have a better idea of that. This is in there somewhere you're not going to be perfect, like there is no perfect predicting personality change. That's one of these things why it's difficult, but I think we could you know. Do better and in focus less on those. Those measurable see other important, of course, but I think there's this like this Mcnamara fallacy knows name for the sector of defence in Vietnam who who judged for winning the war based on our body count burst the other guys body count, and that was it and it's the same as the drafts. I T decided. Things are important because you measure them, you know measure them because your important right so so because their importance, These less easy to measure things are still still thing. We can do a better job of trying to get a little bit of a signal for when you make a good point in the book about this right or wrong with anything there's? No one hundred percent zero percent- it's like you, try and in this is what events metrics becomes eye to it. He trying to
The more likely scenario, fur point, Point air Point B for anything and when things are, that is, like things, might change and of something proves you wrong. That doesn't necessarily mean you are always wrong. It just means in this instance, these set of circumstances happened. Yet shut it in the wrong direction, but overall, you might be more right and wrong here he has washed her people should care about right, yeah yeah, I mean if you look at like what the ashes did to revamp thirteen at some huge, MRS Shady Martinez, right yeah, but but they stuck to a good decision process I think, and so they got more right and wrong, even though that's a huge miss for them, but I think that you know even simple things like blackjack. If you play perfectly, you win a few more hands. You know per hundred that kind of things you just have to have a better decision process in and not get too hung up on you inevitably Miss Caswell. What was the biggest surprise, as you did this book, the thing that shocked in the most probable
in that with the chapparal learning fast and slow that there are is incredibly well known techniques for learning that really heard of in it doesn't seem like most teachers are coaches. I've heard of that that make you slow down progress in the short term, but set you up for the best long term development. Basically these things in making. So it's it's so deeply counter intuitive You can do something that causes improvement right now right before your eyes and somehow that is not building the scaffolding for someone's longer term development. Select. The single most surprising study to me was his wont. The? U S, Airforce Academy. Will you can do these crazy experiments? come in there for for math classes and they are randomized to teach. And re randomize, the next glass and re randomized again, and what they found was at the teachers were the best it getting their students to oversee, even calculus one, basically,
systematically undermine them for their future classes. They would then undermine ongoing foreign. It was basically because they were teaching these like narrow procedural sets of skills, and so then, when it came to transfer, which is what you want to apply to situations you ve never seen before those students were were events this is. This is something that's gonna now at math, including at my daughter school, which I really disagreed with the teaches them to do math find specific system. And I was always like an ad labour with math and I don't really get a bath, but like I just think how do you see The problem in own use, whatever method works, fear for their time and effort that never made sense to me. You know that's right, it's a difference twin using and it's totally analogous to sports the same things, different tween executing procedures and so called making connections. Knowledge where you can actually wheeled your skills for situations you haven't seen before, and that's what really care about whether its matter sports, the short term success over long term gain going back there Hocker is our biggest problem, a sucker you in
America, where these especially higher levels. The clubs are doing things that can help them when atonement when kids are ten eleven twelve thirteen, but those third learning all these things that you no long term aren't really help. About a year, the other nine. That's why we end up in these terms. For you to see you, you know special the men side, the men side is way worse than I think the woman side. In this respect you definitely enemy. We have a huge advantage on the women side also because if you go around the world like most countries, women just don't have good opportunities like they do here. So I think that's a huge advantage for us here over the rest, the world by a lot, but you have to be right. Manumission fits all right. That's what most of the players most the best players ever growing up on France different game every day, the ball small stays on the groundwork reaction, yeah their plane and like a phone booth of their plan on the sand or their plan on the cobblestone. So like sort of the same game, but it's really mixing up there.
That challenge and then then they go to the academy of fifteen and sixteen academies like we produce all the guys with high transfer fees or ignore they came here on their fifteen. Is one of the things you eat, I would say the big lesson of the book for me, which I felt pretty strongly just in general. My life is that there is no right path. Anything and if you go in a bunch of different direction. Sometimes that's a really good thing the end, especially if you're succeeding away you're doing it. Still want to learn how to do, their things and if you fail, it's ok and he pushing keep trying keep China add things to that certainly something I've really been. Passion about with bound everything. I've tried professional as fifteen years, like always at least try to do something else for sure. I'm honest like when I was you know it assign you were at European, like it was pretty apparent from aroused in it. You gotta, like sat on your ass and printed money basically, and instead you're, like you, know, trying to do granite
and try and do other stuff in and doing it, and that I had HBO show that failed. Yeah, like it's. Okay, learn stuff from it. Then you gonna next thing, but I felt doing that you can eventually stagnate? You know that that's like one of them, the cause I'm trying to figure out to do it myself, quotas stuck with me. The most was this woman, her menu bar who studies how people maximize them? quality there fit with what they're doing and in this good stuck mad was you learn who you are in practice, not in theory. She says we have this idea like this commencement speech, idea that you can just introspection, decide what you should be doing and go forth and do it were. In fact, your insight in yourself is constrained by you know your roster of previous experiences and you have to try stuff reflect on it. Zigzagging keep doing that until you get to a need. Where three uniquely can be successful and fulfilled. I was fortunate as when we were creating thirty four thirty I thing and I was kind of a real team for the first time I
I was able to see the value of all these people. Collectively way were making each other better? As a writer, your by yourself, father time, yeah, you know even doing part- sure by yourself out of time, or are you just with you in the gas, but the guest is always changing its really you and the third there things really valuable for me because, It was the first time I saw oh yeah leg. I can have half of it, dance American for better, which is something there I guess the first real time I saw that was when I for commercial, because you could. In the writers room where somebody would have half of an idea and then somebody else make it hard so that Canada does worry me. Then thirty thirty happened annually. Realize the value of you really can't you your potential in their surrounded by other people who really good. She has been that led to great land and that lead to war were trying to do now where the morgue? people you have around. You is just you gonna, be better here. Otherwise,
I remember that Haiti him. How can the EU do you not think our natural tendency is to settle into like good enough right, and that is a great analogy from and include this in in either of my books, but, I used to read through some of the speed typing litter train a how you get faster at typing and it's like we all get pretty fast, and then you settle a good enough. If you want to get faster, you bass Cover, set a metronome, a little faster match that speed, no matter how many mistakes you make and you keep taking it up it's a great analogy because we will, whatever we're doing, will settle into good enough in that same way, if you're not like interacting with people, were pushing you and stretching you and Well, that's a learning foreign language might wanna my biggest mistakes. I took like seven years the Spanish, but I never to another country and gas where's the new situation. Haven't you don't speak Spanish? for three months, where there is no alternative in it's like you have to survive by talking this year and by the time as well, I can remember ass span and then by the term. As thirty it's like, I can't, and now I can't
if anything understand it whatever. But as my father cause, I should again somewhere, but yeah yeah set this learning. You want learning like a baby. You throw people in get immerse, teach the grammar later nets. We want do a sports to throw people in. Let them problem solved. Try fail, delay the gray We're part which is like the technical skills. Can we talk about the marshmallow test? We I've got a good way Kyler, but color hurry up less than a candle by the way. What one of the thing about your career that I think is interesting if you, my me, give young insight is one the topics and ranges: Anna logical problem, solving like using analogy from different domains, and one thing of notices seems like you're, really interested in team chemistry, whether that's a basketball game or like a band that breaks up and super interesting to hear how those like that interest kind of use to cross domains. I think that's, like Sir, you will also these these multiple interested bleed into each other basic year with its something we put a lot of thought into one word of open. The ringer like that
has to be an inherent unselfishness with the team, and people have to feel like if the whole, prizes exceeding their succeeding verses like worst way to do it is, if I succeed then that's good and I don't care what happens there really ass? You know people to think that way. You you know that What, then than the other thing, is you want peace, but I feel like you, you might bring. Them into the universe and hire them, but then you don't know where it's gonna go and we ve had people. I think like matters, for example,. There is an editor and I was there and she was a great editor. We never thought she'd been podcast minnows like she went on a couple, Cash was good that leads to benchmark and now she's one of the best people have fur speaking. I never to guess at, but if you don't pay and infrastructure that allows people to a kind of meander whatever direction gonna go, then you know it
it is the latter what your book was about. The town base branching that yet, like the army is figuring out that you have to let people have some his lateral mobility or they, and you can't figure out what they're gonna do is justice upper out structure. She were to meet aside his awesome to see yet her blow up, basically take one hour break and then I want to talk about. The margin of Haiti's and the Marsh Malta. It just quit break terrain about three watch buzz. We have one coming up. World they Monday The hang over its happening, I'm not We passed on Sunday, night or Monday. So this is all you get, but it boy is it a good alternative? It's me sheriff secrets ran breaking down the come in the last ten years, so you knew that honorary watchful, Spain. If you love there, we watch was Pakistan for you to check out our spin off series. We watch a ball. Ninety. Ninety nine, which only an luminary, but we did the end,
this week, and if you haven't subscribe to those and you like the reactor was, I would highly encourage you to check. Does out be at the insider when it most Andrea movies of the ninety. Nine is an patina last great year really. So that's how come up with a hangover Monday, a memorial day on the remarkable speed? Checked it out? I let's go back to our developed quickly. The marshmallow has just because I want to know car. Listen this got relate to two seconds my explain the marsh mouth as quickly as is famous test, where kids are saddened, room when they're like four years old, marchioness placed in front of them where men are says, I'm I'm leaving won't tell you if you, if you can eat US marshmallow, but if you don't, when I come back, you get a second marshmallow and the kid does not long after weight and and the ideas that it did. Their self restraint predicts. Like a lot outcomes later,
So the just staring at that marshmallow, it's hilarious and some kids immediately start picking at your sniffing in one cages. One cannot just grab at either right away. The other killer. Stare at every five minutes then eat it. Work another Catalina half of it and then there's the kid that just like when that comes back two marshmallows are just as they could be there for seven years. A couple the kid programmer right away like throw the plate and start looking around the room for other stuff for yeah, then there's the kids who are like there, you know they're trying to turn her head there trying to distract themselves. You know there. Selling their singing, sometimes the boy start hitting themselves in the face of our. Would you they're gonna, take a measure right away, but it's become this light, this you know that this is a predictor. Now of the people. Marshmallow right away what happens
I changed. My answer was supposedly you know they end up with worse health, more likely beaches due to drugs, doing worse, Actually, all these sorts of bad life outcomes in oil or education, but looking back they end up on the side of them died, but so So you can go online. You can see parents doing this to their own kids right and there's even like. Does it there's a hilarious one online that site at the end, you realize it's it's about like abstinence like if you don't eat the marginal you're going, you know in the afterlife there's good things were, so it's just like proliferate in all these crazy ways, but the study actually did not say what parents think this stuff, that it's like a crystal ball right. There was some effect, but even once been repeated, that's been smaller, but what is really about was it. You could actually teach kids really easy strategies to figure out how to like not need the Martian yeah. Now, I'm sure more people know about it. I would say the people they don't need the marshmallow either a super stubborn physics.
That guy doesn't think that deck. I think man eat the marshmallow, I'm not doing it, like really obedient right or like have shouted diabetes and their parents. I dont refreshing a change pities really quickly. Here this is thing. I feel I give you did a third book. I can the timing into EU danced around it down to books in different ways? But this would be the third book. I would guess you I mean. I did you the way I caught on it as I was basically Co. Writing the story that out at our Treasury is yes Fishermen are already so talk about that. So I did a lot of p d, writing and sort of got a little for tee from it, and so like left it after the book. But it is a very interesting world. Its further pressure is Referral is very fertile and, in this stuff's getting better now there is really no way to know if anyone doing anything unless they somehow get caught like what a right there were. You end up in some clinic in the clinic, gets busted under NATO gets tied into yet I was like second or third time
yeah they are counterfeit. We save this. Fourth, I ve ever seen in some sports people, don't care. I like two of our last forcible envy. Bees have about suspensions, but like football fans, We know that self says the Ottoman shock. I know I thought I learnt that everything I said it living dangerously, but yeah. No, it's it's interesting and I think In the major pro sports, like, I think that the best Corleone me, doping scandals you have in your sport is how hard you are looking for them, not how many people are actually doping, but I would say, Basketball, if that's a scale of one to ten best, was probably a one fur Howard there looking yeah, it's probably low is. We learn. People say that about one sport merges, none of the best players have ever tried, Pleiades rang what America and believe it, and you know people say well to skill sport, but, alas It's, for example, are all chemical analogues of testosterone, they're, all like testosterone and so on.
Or were men have an advantage. They would help we lifting any printing all sports basketball, a male Bass Bobo, had evidence of eighty eight is a recovery dragonettes apart that is so hilarious when they say that you known Basque, bought it didn t, did they don't they? Wouldn't changes. They would totally need HIV Aids. What you talking about a few have, whatever injury and you're trying to get back faster Take it easy age to combat faster, I mean I can tell you like when once driver ass? I was going back. The nineties now get my hands on a dealers ledger and it had a whole bunch of college basketball programmes in it right. So the idea that this, is a thing that miraculously basketball players don't have incentive to do like, I think, there's a whole steroids error in the NBA in the nineties that it's just kind of never been really celebrated, create a celebration of celebrated the railway problem. If you were a few watch some of the games from back, then the Ye Ina yeah they gotta, geyser bigger. Let's say that way. I think.
Therefore, like eighty nine too Ninety nine! In every sport there was fire, o storage Renaissance year did the drugs little better and more people are doing a good year. For sure I mean I think, they're getting there about it, you can be very lives, is Helga bigger. His head did you larger duly doesn't happen at that age. Yeah, I wonder the quick for me as if, like a major major major MBA star, tested positive for something with they tossed the sample Just just say to themselves: Let's make sure and then go back a second or third time until they got the sample they wanted, or would they want a risk like a massive hits? business. That's right, like what's the incentive to catch somebody Can you really I'd be either the onset of right? You can end up like the sports, where it's been. You know disastrous. I even in this. This is sort of an aside, but remember looking at some
Like data for Minor League baseball, where they dont have a players- unions, they have more random testing than in the majors, and players would tested positive been suspended were still more likely to move to the next level. Baseball players would never tested positive. So if you, if you know you're incentive, is still to do it, even if you're gonna get caught cause, you still move up, and I think that sort of where we are in a lot of sports and is that what, when testing, is really really limited and not that random infrequent? It's not that easy to get caught. I just think leg. It changed. Not legal Tommy John Surgery, legal yeah, like Ed, it's such a slippery slope. For me, when can put a dead persons ligament in your arm and that's fine he now even encouraged here you could take you get diagnosed as having a dvd here, you know medically diagnosed? I have to take this and take a riddle in here, but if you know that
does that now becomes illegally, that did it she so poorly governed and so hypocritical in so many different ways that messy ticket Each like his entire shouted ray, I'm super curious. If we like you know, is he like an Anthony Davis, where we raise these little guys were learning little guy skills and shot him for HIV Aids? I would we get more messes. I'm really curious because he's like that, beyond the experiment that we know of that we have like that, like it before you mention in their en route- the young men getting basically made it with another giant channel. Ask about where it was arranged, marriage basically and to see what would happen in her father kits it. Yet I mean you don't say arranged it was like. People were encouraged for, like several generations who were on the national basketball federations. They definitely made an tender setting foot tyndareus here now, but you you're going to any changes your HIV Aids, when steroids in the nineties became controlled substances h. There were like
scientists testifying saying, let's not tar each stage with the same brush, because we don't know anything about it yet, and so Congress gonna it into this law that this trafficking law that, like SIRI, came out of basically interpretation of the law has been that it psych even more restricted in most areas, and I think, that's basically an accident of how the law worked, and it wasn't meant to be that way and that end up more stricter than it should have been its in football people our carry people really really really care baseball here or they did for, years now, maybe they're not to it and in football either. The thing was incredible. I remember writing about it really going all in on it in two thousand and twelve and thirteen like just how the steering
their spray and reality with Georgia Armenia is ludicrous is what are we doing. I mean I was in the locker room there. I remember I've some great table, someone ravens yelling mean I went in, and railways must be talking because he was injured, something I'm like. That's not my rule like on care, and I had. As you know, I have a copy of his personal checked that deal with spray company like pictures of it on my phone and sort of like You know what he had to say about this. This moment you went to re low, oh yeah, yeah yeah. I know why you scared freely in the giants now mean like people in the face like Debbie. I totally use then have history of him We had no idea that still has not come out on Super bowl media day right and we couldn't predict the ravens were going to be in the super bowl that year, so that wasn't really planned, but That's true. They were under dogs at year, end at that company that we got a lot of flax or saying oh this product, for these reasons, couldn't actually contain insulin like growth factor, which is the thing that that they advertise we will want, and then there was like independent testing the show that it did have some of them we use surprised by just how many
fleets at we wondered if they might be using pities. Coincidentally, their wives were the ones in the Pyrenees other. That was amazing. You know that I am not surprised because, because I think, like athletes are such a tiny fraction of this p d market is people who want to look better. That's that's the real market attitude like advertisements for those people, million people while it better. I almost did it. I almost did it for a whole grantline thing I really am. I did all the research on a year when I started play basketball game I was, I was gonna, be like amateur, really take the same. Understandably best Morgana Gamma Ray what this is, what I might actually I will return fifty, but I did research on it, and I didn't like how thought the stuff about. I give you and sir in your body, could actually spur the cancer on a little bit that that was a little alarming. Here, though, is the army. There may be like an adaptive reason why we have less growth hormones. We get older when you're more likely get cancer, so I think I would be wary of that. You know if you wanted to do so
like amassing. You should do this year, but I would go with like low doses of testosterone rather human growth. Let go cuban style that's a big mark. You would think tat it s not here. I think it as ads, for it does. There has been very passionate about leg, low doses of testosterone thing is, I think you have the once you decide to do it. You just have to keep doing it. I mean it, you then, if you come off and I think it fuck sure you can come off, there's ways to come off. If you do a low doses, maybe I'm not saying you should do this. I think it's like vastly alarm concerning off her heavy regionally prescriptions for me unlike in their forties of like quintupled over the last decade, for this stuff like so, we might get to a point where this is like. Normal for middle aged men and athletes, but ass they allowed to do it, which might become a weird situation near I it's. I miss it. The most of anything does I don't know whether a basket gotcha. I have dreams about it. I really do my favorite thing there did you do it. I, like, I love the camaraderie of it. I love the teamwork, I'd just enjoy it. Its eyes
jobs about playing, so I'm gonna have to make one more and I make an arena. Ok I'll have to talk to Alex and see Did you ever think in a million years that he would become Miko court? I'm still not sure how like a boy s, but that he'd, though those things which if, for him like it has I could not have envision the way when you know after like Katy Kirk, I thought that's tough would stick stick and peoples, it that all I'm not gonna come a pathological liar, but he's definitely was a serial liar. I mean somebody told me that carry that Katy, correct video was used in a class about like for, like intelligence analysed, to say, like he's, really look at someone but good line, basically yeah yeah
I I do is the very bonds of lying. I don't know who is? He lied over and over again and got caught Bothwell Times and got suspended for an entire year than ever? Is a cool put em on Sunday there baseball, like what I mean is good commentator in Ireland and in a one point it turned out. He had like a prescription that baseball. Let him have for TEST Astro right like so relic I mean you know, I don't begrudging dna that stuff. I think that brigand story was betrayed for both teams. Kind of yeah, maybe cheered him a little bit of his perfectionist syndrome, and you know but no, I reckon ratified it answers they ve only one one world series this century as totally tainted. Unlike the eye. The super clean red Sox World says that we have actually here, unfortunately, an angry for years, and we can clean air squeaking clean for red Sox here, ass, yet I think that would be an interesting. I know you be burned out on it for a while, but I think ups.
There's so many ways to go with it and just in general, the dough. Some things are ok to improve your performance, but others are here is one of the most fascinating topics to mere ETA yeah. It's a very difficult leinen for sure there are things that are banned. You know go in Germany in shooting shaking your knee right is ok yeah, it's like recycled blood that shot back in tyranny? That's, ok and who knows when you go in Germany, it is now even just that like play the rich plasma stock, as you could get that years of they're gonna Germany are going for, things are probably aren't approved here so that's not are probably not arrived here. I have to go to their everyday right, so that's not Zack. I like medical tourism, so it s not a good symbol, If you go to another country for anything, that's there's a red flag its. If we don't have any a red flag, greed I look forward to all the are the stuff you have coming. Thank you.
I don't know? What's the ex ante are low bookstore here I don't really know. What's next, either mean range from that Tuesday. I think that you know that my three month old Jimmy busy for a little while, but I'm gonna, abide by my book. Unlike her, not worry too much money, exactly what's next, let's get the little innovates. It's called range you can preordained comes out on Tuesday, David have seen thing. Thank you. I'd thanks to David Epstein thanks to Jonathan Sharks and Kevin Oconnor, thanks to the Neff stand, a troublesome were not there in Pakistan Son innate Jesus stand a travel and thanks to disown and we'll be back problem Tuesday day. Hopefully nothing crazy happen and if there is thing. Absolute barkers happens, outdoing mercy. Gas, from my hotel room at my daughter secretary, but there s a hat We will receive aunties there, the basement
Transcript generated on 2020-04-26.