HBO and The Ringer’s Bill Simmons is joined by author/journalist Malcolm Gladwell to discuss his new book 'Talking With Strangers,' as well as recent controversies, the audiobook revolution, classic conspiracies, NBA tampering, and more.
This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
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does one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine fit. We have four movies left pick never been kissed is this week, so you can subscribe and luminaire in that we'll talk about that later. My friend map and Gladwell he's been on this package many times with lots of things together. When I saw Diys and he has a new book coming over and talk to him about it right out. First, our friends pearl jam they say back Gladwell, never another book, you rather buccaneers. Four year, sixty sixty between I'm old. I can't make funny my fingers, don't even work anywhere you're right. I need a simple there's, a whole generation people who don't realize you used to write and am wasted town. They think you're, just a waste talking head. It's too, Unlike the end, your luck, erratic, I'm just for clients
in the Himalayas you'll miss it. I do miss it, but what I dont misses you can do that. As far as you know that you like, when you do this book, that you put together a guaranteed in just work on it like once a week, you were doing at there's still a thing. It happens to me it's usually in airports. Somebody will come to me and say I love those emetic changes. You did with Simmons back in the day and then they want and I just feel like someone stabbing hark as I am like over to you. Won't you won't do them anymore. I do them However, as I never said, I would never do them the last. What we did was my favorite thought it was. I thought it was that we did not want for the ringer. Did I do to get me out, be just invite me you, but you're too, busy like now. That is even really thing in thy two years I get yet now it get jealous when other people right stuff cuz. I always feel like. I have a kinship with the people who were writing less and then you come out and you write this talking to strangers book
in one of the most complicated books you ve written and it seems like you, you started to explain the thesis on one sentence. I don't wanna go on it like that. The morass of the book by the thesis is that the strategies that we use to make sense of our friends are weak and work really well. In that context, work really badly when where they are applied, two strangers and that an enormous number of the controversies we find ourselves in a car in the present day are about failed conversations between strangers. You meet the person, you don't understand, we who here she is your rattling this off with with the vigour of somebody whose than like fifteen interviews in the last week, but I've got really good. I've done glows get back it up and I am what I've done his cause. You know you do this thing that, where it's all you'd in a day when you run book tour, you would give a talk. I would give a talk right now. It's ok
eyes, and through now holding is you choose in each place. You stop a different cunette Acuity partner, who will have a different conversation that a person before so you want me some diversity in your q and a partner and that way you don't get stale. So this as I go, last three years kind of trend because This is the same thing I board shock when he just at his book. Yet as he is like bodies in every city there or whoever somebody they hope to mobilise dawned on people that, though the peep dawned on the book publishing business that the people who shall for your book. It end are already going to read the book. So the last thing I need to do preview, the book to them. They have it, we're gonna, read it so you can. They just wanted find out about you and like do they have the by book to get into the thing? Yes, so that's you so I was of the vestige which
Insane of you would just go any sign everybody's book and will be a long line when I was pretty self is, and it was just like- and I was far You know, if there's like hundreds of people online, you fill you gotta, keep it going, but I also like I wanna talk to people, but you to people, but you and adjust lady. I my longer it's like ten years ago is the nineteenth century? Is it? Is it you I mean you know you have no more understanding of, like I don't know the book to allow this kind of funny alone. I think I would like to version of it. Much more do and like the little q and each city now you're making me want to write a book and also says all kinds of things I gotta go sweater user imitates my style. Well, an update of I've said for years that an update of the book, a basketball I mean it's unbelievable. You haven't done it Like other stand, it's not gonna beat you ve done all the hard work you just need to revisit the top hundred you could eat.
A month off and like right and he'd, maybe plain diamond. I'm doing all right all right that I heard that and gradually move Evan rope it every people yet in ten years. The latter's change, crazy, be a decade, but that was it. More fun to sell book. The way things are now imagine it is, it must be like you're talking to were taken. This on whence a utopian Larry milk would given on Tuesday Aguilar Woolmer today and Riverside no last night. Was Britain Darling the actress? The now before we spend my neighbour for that was LA professor at Harvard night before that was SAM Sanders, the hilarious SAM pr guy they before that was I was on brine layer whose, like the opposite of Samson, equally brilliant, like like an old jewish guy, commotion and so thick, it's five completely different experiences. Have you pick the less yeah you,
You try mixed up as much as possible for a year, almost arranging like a cocktail party where you you're walking around the party talking all difference. Have you people like brightly? I just made fun of broiler fur like be an old guy and he was so hilariously down with that and then last night was have supercilious because, like British Syria Seven she said you know, we talked about storytelling and I then Larry. I don't know what areas Canada tonight, but you know where you can go in any number of. We could spend the entire time talking about the Lakers. Who knows right with him. It's very pass expressly with this upcoming Lakers isn't Thea, the book, it's more of a psychology book than anything that they use. Books have a ban, but it really dives into it and every time I a book. I that never in a couple that different dips into it in a big way. We wonder why I just don't read psychology books because I'd love reading about human psychology, yet I fear and on the other hand I feel like I'm pretty good at sight at Sea
just like understand in all things, and maybe it's because I don't read books about it. They do you think it's wonderful or the more you read about it actually could screw up your compass. Well, there is the problem with reading with jumping to the kind of source material. Is it its vast yeah like it's just really really really really really are running, like you had David Epstein right on this to the end, like six weeks ago, David David is the guy who reads everything before you write a book, so he does an insane. You know to master the feel before you arrange he idle. God knows how many Emmy must suspend like a year just reading, and I I don't do that much more selective but it, but you have to have a such an approach to this because the you could delicious benares your life consuming the literature in these areas of interest. So your processes, you start out with Sandra Bran, killed herself in jail, and I'm obsessed with that, Sir,
So you just obsessed with not even thinking it's a book tat. You just like anyone, know anything about this case like everyone so she's the case of the women, the young aftermath, woman is pull over, saw the road in Texas, copycats and arguably four years ago for yours go, she gets arrested, she hang yourself in jail and there is a whole. The whole thing is there's a dash cam video, their entire encounter, so as one of the only so all of these high profile encounters between African Americans in kind is really the only one where we have an absolute transcript. We know exactly like they're still arguing about Ferguson what happened with Michael Brown and Daring Wilson
with Sandra Van, we know and that's why it's so heartbreaking, because ass, you can see just how stupid and banal and idiotic the cop the cops encounter with them just like it should never have happened. It's the most kind of, and so I watch shit like twenty times and became convinced that there was something both incredibly interesting in an interesting. It seems like I would labour in that context, but but also something powerful typical about it, and it also read this book? Is it brighter on the same time, read a book by a criminologist in a birthday call Frank Zimmern, Kauai police kill and he was trying to figure out how many american civilians died at the hands of law enforcement in America. And his first thing is it's really hard to figure that out?
believing that we don't have numbers on that which is in itself incredible, and then he figures out that its by two thousand and then he says, was that high or low relative to other countries in answers. It's way way high yeah and then he says well hello, had been going on that level on the answer is a very very long time and then, once you with a book, it's like it's impossible not to be set up angry. When did you come into the realization had a lot of what happened when she got stopped. The stuff with the cop was about two people that were basically set up by all these other factors to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Cuz, that's really what the books about two people a place at the right time for reasons that really didn't have anything to do with them and then hitting all the same points like you're going head when you don't Canada, how to talk to each other here Y got
media really William theres. Many many many questions that arise in the tropics up the one I sat alone as being the most significant is wise. He stopping her eye. So the first thing you do you look at the cop. We have an exact record of his entire career as a police officer. Every single please stop he ever made and what you discover. First of all, as it he was stopping people all the time constantly for incredibly trivial, infraction so central bank not some enormous incident. It is it's what he did yet and the second is okay. So why does he do that? And the answer is because he was trained to do that and then once you should have realised that fact that he is not a row cop, he is in fact a parity matic cop he's a cop acting precisely as the system
wanted him to act? And that's when you make the leap- and you realize? Oh, you can dismiss this. This is not simply a personal interaction gone awry. This is the result of a deliberate strategy of law enforcement, which was has been enacted without regard to the social costs, to its social consequences and ass his last third quarter. The book is just about exploring that kind of how on earth to be end up with a with a law enforcement system in this country idea, strategy which, which involves stopping innocent people in suspecting engaging in wild fantasies about their potential round and how much of the book can we step on you wanna leave some mystery young Islam is gonna, say: there's theirs, I mean I didn't know a lot of the stuff I feel like I'm pretty well read. I didn't realize the volume of stops and how is it was? Actually you know a strategy
started fur, not the greatest reason, but not a terrible reason. You lay down on the book. I won't say what you have there, but then just kind of became everyone strategy it was almost like an sportswear somebody's offences, succeeding fer, a specific reason there, but as a gay that often succeed, but it's terrible for them, and this is the spread, often civilized forest Yeah and it's just like ridiculous, and then please don't back up at all. It make sense to do it. This way I mean when you're stopping a thousand people and you're finding one gun- and you know two lb of coke. Do you have to ask yourself? Is it really worth alienating nine hundred and ninety eight people? defined, essentially what we're doing right, we're stopping your institutionalizing fear anger and all all these things that just don't need to you at least I'll need to do that. It's not worth it for what you get out of it, but you also in this book, tied in a whole bunch of things that I'm just in
they didn't, like amended acts in the Senate ASCII case I've been emailing with an ox the document is gonna like down. It was very good cause. She, for we did, is what we call an enhanced audio book. So we did our audio book like a so all. History, archival tape whenever I have someone you hear that you hear them not me. Reading them is a completely different experts. We have. We got a song from denominate, that's a theme song that run throughout anyway. I want to use some of Amanda Man, his own audio, like from her audio book. In my things, might ask permission. So we get in touch with Amanda. I study mailing with her is excellent. I deserve it. Isn't it interesting that kind of- and she turns out, of course, to be incredibly thoughtful, interesting kind of person, but the notion is what are those I I I divide all of these crazy public controversies into to work abroad. Groups. There is the one
there are, the ones that stand up to the test of time. So, ten years later, when you look back on controversy acts does it still seem like a legit controversy, ran and yellow color. They ones like you just have you can't? I understand what an we think it amend an ox is the latter category is in retrospect. It makes no sense crazy The millions of people around the world were convinced that this kind of you know Seattle, middle class, slightly awkward, Seattle girl who goes who's been in ITALY for three weeks, honoured like year abroad, shoes at twenty, like twenty or so who, just like Meta, Lubeck, Corky interest. We somehow convinced ourselves that she was this murderous femme, but tall. Who was, hoping in her room made her boyfriend and some random like drifter. Comes it off the street into
I think that ends in a bloody massacre like it is. It is crazy, is an o j is one of those things to coerce, OJ parroting Matic, it's crazy. Ten years later, whereas was when the stands up really well. Well, you know, John beneath Ramsay, It's not like we resolved it or we now think. Why do we get to meet still a kind of grand mystery that can it commands at the age of case had two things that we didn't know Nough about ninety four. Ninety five one was just the domestic violence pieces of it which every bit it is kind of blew off yeah. You know, eat there. Is this mindset a vow? You can judge you weren't there. You know people know where they thought about it. It wasn't a red flag like if became postage. I haven't thought about it. In the meat to era the presumption of OJ skill is so much stronger because they play the tape. The nine eleven take its it strong
post OJ, because that was your. That was the That shown the light on this whole thing in its in she's, the worst one when she cause- and this is after a couple times the police had come and she's just like completely defeated. And yes, I guess they call Brian Simpson and here it about OJ, he's gonna kill me like eight she's, not even like scared. It's like she's, just convince she's, gonna die and then people heard that and it made them completely foot the footpath. They thought about. This. Of the other thing was dna we just an understanding maintain any foreign and, if I don't even like we're having younger people, understood it, but I I think older people like well, you know they could just like the blood and they just don't get it. I I you you, so you think that the the switch was flipped on are kind of understanding, an appreciation of how serious domestic abuse
is, you think, is led by OJ, I think red around. Then I think that was later, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe only the beginning. O j? And this is why one of the reasons why answers documentary about him was so great it. It's a tipping point of like nine different things yeah, where it's like just life is different after this happens in this spot and the spot. Yes by this spot and even the concept you talk in the book about you, people's perception, verses with the reality is, and they see what they want to see in a big piece of this it was our he couldn't have done. That is ok yeah! You know and wait ten years ago about. We think we did her back and forth. That's where we're talking about like who would who had the most surprise, as person be like right now. My surprise his OJ. Wasn't any foreigners basically like Barkley Boylike of also Berkeley just murder, somebody might now? Charles would never do that. That was how we
about OJ in the mid nineties, as there is no way you stop? It also the question I would be asked today about: oh geez, whether he had had his idea? That's up yet immediately or whether it the other thing was wetter. I mean his behaviour, also those alike Roy dredge yeah. It's rather sit here I was feeling within an end is, and here we are talking once again about patriots, but that we decide azured it we're gonna, let us about them. It is about the discovery there in her net has had the city of minute debate with an exam, insanely advanced case of city. I feel like I've she watched Steve. I watch Stephen AY honesty and talk about this and he was like saying: don't use those of
He was like you didn't want to hear. You want to incorporate that fact into his understanding of irony. That is, and I thought you know what that's a big mistake. I think you have to it. Doesn't that I'm off the hook, but it does say that this is like a I die. This is actually a kind of way of. My problem is that I like a lot in that I use him this book to do when I talk about the stamp of red case when just because you bring in a an outside Consideration that affects behaviour does not mean you are letting the perpetrator off the hook. So to say I this chapter on separate case, which is all about
What is our goal? Do her attitude and brought her case? How does it has up a hall? Drunkenness contribute to sexual assault, alot of people, their first impulses, oh you're, vice by saying alcohol contributes heavily you're trying to let Brok turn off the hook wrong hundred percent wrong. In fact, it greatly clarifies his responsibility for its own behaviour, so he's not just responsible for his behaviour towards women. He is also responsible for the things he puts inside his body, so we ve now told him dude you re team. There are two things need to worry. One do not act like a criminal towards women too. Don't ingest substances at such a rate that turn you into criminal write it or that you think, control, even what you doing walking straight and any decision, you're back you can control with football and see tee at the same thing applies,
I've noticed what the Antonio Brad penalize couple weeks away. People have talked about him any Malibu, both interlock to wait joked about at the beginning. That's where yeah. I think that people have been hesitant with Brown, because they don't know, there's something wrong with them. You know, Think if this had been ten years ago twenty years ago, which is what happened, I back as a lunatic that each take it was crazy pills again and he would have been like a character. I think this has happened in a lot of different parts of sports and culturally, given something like on my child actors. You know- and you think, like in the Ladys Early Ninetys, which was really when child actor started grown up. Child actors were fuck, it up, left and right people, a coward, stern and Sarah LAD. There really started making fun of those people again. He bought a duty.
And it has become a funny thing now. Don't think we'll do that. I think you had. I think twitter has big part, that the internet and the people are just saw a lot more feeling these days, but I do think people consider a greater range of factors, so yeah yeah, that's a good time. There's other bad things outcome of that too, but I think that's ultimate good things. At least we give people little more benefit of the doubt from the middle. I said yeah and if he tea things a great example. You know that we are now talking about me. He might have had like a concussions. We don't know feeling tell us, in a grand cascade, you see, some has quotes said he had liked when he concussions in his black out concussions five times like who knows, exaggerating, but I remember watching pages games and thinking he'd been closed at least four five times new car right. No doubt I wouldn't be surprised by any number me everything. I could trust in the Superbowl they're coming back in Seattle and
in the game caught the gaming touchdown. So God only knows no man is so earlier. I mean it's not even we have talked about how many concussions Brady's had just by virtue of being on the fuel for dialogue. Did she made a more handsome, the biggest era tourism at the sight of a huge made headway that red hair, the deputy be the worst. Aren't I a dead wrestlers in crimes Debbie, Add one thing happened that was so terrible that it's kind of been its most to our bows Chris Vanua, where he killed, is basically his family. I miss here and-
they said, his brain was a bad, even recognisable, yeah and he eat. There is just so much damage, and he was you know, wrestling in the height of the chair, shatter where four for five years is like a big thing hitting people over the head with chairs, and these guys were like any dizzy, and then there are the next city and doing it again and he uses his brain wishes. Mush. There's a guy who, I repeat, my book of a bit of a chapter, the book on the chaplain them run on torture. When I sit down with the yeah see I got, you did all the water boarding and then I had to damage the other guy who studies what happens to people when they ve been traumatized and that second guy super super interesting and his his one of the things he told me on this
some nothing. I went into the book, he was saying the thing is fascinating about PTSD is you could have two soldiers who go to exactly the same experience exactly the same? One guy will emerge, one percent healthy and one guy will have suffer from profound PTSD and there's no obvious reason. Why? Then it is not that one guy is from a good background and healthy, and yet a guy is drug using an you. They are objective Lee indistinguishable, yen and something about the way one person processes that that experience proves to be highly pathological, analogous fun and
He was out of the question he was running. Answer was: can we distinguish between those two people before they go into battle, but was really interesting about that? Is then? Then you, if you have a situation where, in order to be a soldier, you would be screened for this, and we have had this weird thing where they would say to. You know: bill you're. One of those people is knocking at PTSD you're, a grunt you're on the front lines and then Malcolm you are you gonna Workin, the commissary jack in the base and be totally now the same things. Of course gonna happen in football, because the same is true. There are some people who get multiple oceans and their fine and there are others who develop profound city at city. We don't. We have big reasons to understand what distinguishes between these two but is very clear that
someone, I guarantee Anders, has this profound susceptibility to that? Had that profound susceptibility and he was off the rails by twenty two right rat and there is quite possible that you know grog could live to be ninety five and ghetto could be. It could be a brain surgeon and, like you know, go back. School. I mean it's just there's. No, so there's we're we're, probably a generation away from people. Screening, your kids and saying denying this is by were the only way for posts revives. He said in the early teenagers, they start aggressively screening, kids and saying. Ok, this kid, you don't have any of the subtleties to congratulate. You complain you can't mats. Can it be a really interesting? And what, if the percentage of kids who had the cept ability susceptibility, is seventy percent of the football playing or what, if it's, five percent right one?
huge difference it outcomes and soccer lacrosse unhappy to yeah. You will do it, for you know and the honest the sport there will all will. Only sport there will flourish is running, of course, my favorite sport, because everyone's could, after and cross country all people get kicked off the same. It's gonna be the last one laugh I think about the concussion stuff. I think about the concussion stuff, constantly kiss my daughter's now, five foot, eight and she's playing striker and there's corner cakes or crosses and thing this one thing she get out has gone up in the air and tried to get ahead, and if you watch soccer games allowed at times, you know you got a headache. We asked as you, u crash heads. Are you you hit the gully, not only guy it's her. I had somebody when I did that stories two years ago. Explain this to me. That is really really crucial at your neck muscles be strong right and that your head be fit. Step that so she's good at that. So that's good, but if she has head to head with somebody it doesn't matter and you it's it's been assumed because
We see watching the last ten years in little kids running around in a little more circle, but now sleigh grown woman and Ghali's running out and somebody else is running in there and they collide and that the dangers gone up. And then you start thinking is apparent like I do the right thing here like isn't it my job to protect me kids, my kid loves plain. Whatever my son's plan he's on the seventh grade team in six great plain running back but its flag, but he's got. Wanna play with the pads and a couple years, salad, his kids. Do it here aside, like our I D. Try a new though accessible thing is yet one concussion you're done you using sellers. Romano you're here this is the first time in history. I was a kid. As I said, I was like saying cell. He accepts your men there, so they sat here, diagnosis and then, like these random people come up and just start telling me sad stories occurs every here, slackness, a legend
this, like yeah yeah yeah. I don't think you should we take a life advice from this man advice, grabs now, get they take life, advice the gaelic and carefully advice from the cause, but I see you coming seventy two following them: the following gambling story involving a leech vena care, who, I guess, he's one of the committee all time Great Hussars, media group on public golf courses, so he's in a Gulf Tommy, correct me. If I get the server he's trivia like years ago, at treated as hide he's in a coffin clubhouse in Minneapolis and that their the clubhouses right on the a power for rights just next to the green on next today to the tea
and so he didn't even a table in the middle of the of the gulf of the covers. So we turned to the groups, is gamblers, have gathered casinos and a choice can he's. Ok, each chip in Miss get fifty fifty thousand dollars on the table. What I'm gonna do it the power for? I may use a potter and I'm going to drive from the middle of the golf club open windows. I must start right here in the middle, the room and I'm gonna make par, and if I don't opinion, fifty grand, if you do any makes part many goes. Ok, gobbler, nothing here, snuffled, nothing on the next all economic power, but we're gonna willing to start by putting the golf club, the Gulf Garbo inside a plastic up those I wouldn t off with the boy inside a plastic up, make part
and they like double or nothing like we're all it was it. It takes her money where it is now. My came it she's, as is the task that he big documentary arm. I gotta be fantastic, like all those guys. Those public course guys here are so much more interesting, sweat of the William sisters. It's all anyone whose like comes up some Arthur Ox Way is gonna, be infinitely more interesting and more resilient by the way than vendor could have for private course guys. That's why? I, like are the Canadian who, when the U S, open your brethren, surname Monica now blinking o o o her? Yes, yes, yes with the weather, like the of the Eastern Europeans like last name or Ukrainian, yet you are very serious. He was old school Andrey set aside that I've car the gradient,
After that, could she she was caught all school and really super competitive and then see much came off an assembly line, like others other tennis bars. I want to talk about our intuition in some other stuff like a brick. Let's take a right to talk about square. You know square the mate that little weight square reader that helps businesses around your neighborhood. Take payments running grow business. It takes so much more than payments. That's why square build so many more tools that can have point of sale, software for restaurants, retail businesses insolence invoice is you can send right from your phone, easy to build website stopped beside mine access to business funds to help you increase your cash flow purchase, new equipment or whatever it is. You need to do is to grow businesses there, too, their payments are still the best business. I've been using it for years. Every time I get a haircut super easy, no complicated contracts, weird fees, you escape money fast, even instantly, and since square, makes all these tools there are built to work together. So whether you sell stuff finance grammar website with you
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and as you point out like demanded axe thing, she she fit the proof if it was the law and order, episode, sort of egg. I bet she did it. I bet she's the one which has had it police actually acted. No! No! She did it Did it amused by intuition here and they just convince themselves
they did it, but how much you think like pop culture plays, was on that should the ADI right. So I did a singing. The book were taken episode of friends and I had your those dearly psychologists, your experts, who was called facts, which is the aim of a notification system for identifying and registering all the expressions that your face can make. So they what does like, I forgot, the numbers a hundred expression to face can make and they ve got a number for each one. So they can look at what you do. In fact, if you look at a two minute stretches of friends- and you can know, take every expression of goes across the face of this of your brow furrows. It's like F, too
Can you not one is where the inner part of your eyebrow goes up, which is what you, which is a sign of distress. Yet right to this color you one and then said you have to memorize all these little codes for hastily failures to master facts is really really hard to do that, but I found a fax person and I sent her two minutes of a friend's episode and, I said, do a fax analysis of every expression made the people on friends, and then I and then we went through together. We said: ok, I'm does eat. Does the expression on her face match their internal emotional state so of joy? There's a sea were joy, is angry. Does fate? Does his face, show anger a clear to the costs and, in absolutely every instance, the facial expressions of the actors perfectly batch, their internal motions states, which is why you can watch insanely complicate, observe friends with the sound off and know what happened. You don't need to know. You know that Monica is upset
and you know that Russia is perplexed and Joey is dumb because their faces perfectly show thing. If you watch a lot of friends and lot of tv, where actors who are trained in this, but transparency they are trained to perfectly represent their emotional sits on a faces. You think that that's the way the world works, but in fact, does not the widower works. If I were to reach across him right now and punch you in the face, which would be most surprising and then angering for you, I I do so safer problem, you would use it if you would think your face would show surprising and anger right, yeah how'd, he probably wouldn't you probably faced might not shooting, and I would like you to explain why did it at their part of the package? The test timing? I have cut the setup, you the threat, the friends, our guy, I'm sorry
something that's one of the many ways in which you know it's. A good example of this is quite is drafted by the by sea, known at sea. Considering drafting quite right, bring it into the room, and I forgot who the GM was at the time of Seattle just before they moved to OKC the Oklahoma and they bring quiet and kawaii sweating through his suit and the GM is quoted. You know the now the g of his they weren't in Seattle anymore, as Livin with Whoever unwise, maybe with Casey DNA. Wherever it was, there was a team that could have had quite get. There was high in the draft and they interview him and he sweating through his suit and the GM seeds. Is at the time. We don't want him because we want someone is cool under pressure of course, and quiet has
no heartbeat, he's an already covered so guy. What I was doing was he was making a set of what kind of transparency assumption he was assume it. If quite is showing signs of nervousness. What I consider to be signs of nervousness in my presence, then he's nervous and only that that that represents a kind of stable trade of his now quite good, been hot, The soup could been ill fitting or could it be nervous, but made quite a kind of guy whose only nervous, when he's talking to a middle age, white guy on the day before the draft right? So it's like. That's a classic mistake. We make us if we jump to all kinds of conclusions based on some, so the real s that is due to a million hours of tape of quite play? Basketball, you, don't have to meet the man. Don't meet a boat what's Euro blank which is like the cousin of this. Maybe even the brother link is like first three seconds you come up with. Their thing
this is like now, I'm spending time at this person and in that's almost screw me up. Its euro must better with the big thing, and break, is like a great way with by with basketball interact with intense acquiesce, we'll cases of tabs I'll look at somebody's bottom like about, will there's a so there's a difference. There is certain kinds of things that I think are you can pick up in that fruit, particularly your expert. You can get the Gestapo somebody very quickly yes, but I'm talking about much more. Yet this is the new ones kind of it. Yeah yeah Tional, like you're famous thing about em. That chief said a number of occasions about Gregg Odin that you just have watched the way he walked. Yeah just realized he can play by animals like that to you, survivors because twenty threes running like that already that's good. I worry about your courage with this by the way really either. I think he runs heavy at the key has allowed await yeah That's because I love watching him. My fear with him there, some number away,
the event. Ba players get over a certain way to get a little dicey. What language does your hundred sixty pounds by that? There's a nervous about us about the elder yeah? Who is this similar body tat now he's a bonus. The other one is just his son. The bonus gets. It's about a sit me, the owners, awareness but he'd, like all those millions of surgeries, yet he ended his career stills irregular, but just never moved were now. But if you saw the cliffs in the eighties, yes, you know looks like oh he's a good. He looks like David rabbits and the train, fancy thing. I was that essentially with the friends, because I pictured you watching out of twenty seizes of friends trying to find the perfect two minutes, but that I I know he's way too smart. He probably Ray episode, eyewash, a lot of friends in my life. I haven't I mean: what are you actually research, nobody yet die. Why did I
the into it was it Eddie was enjoyable to come up with a good. What do you want? It is the stretch of a particularly difficult funny by friends. Is the plots are so insanely complex? And yet we their transparent or friends was. It was eight. Son Slash daughter of the systems that a group of the seventies like three company was the ultimate one words like misunderstood, meaning yeah. I saw you with with that girl at the bar. Oh wait! A second! That's your sister bird looked like your arm was around her. And then at the ended all turns out my late. They just friends took that two other however, what we re talking about, but the transparency of the actors, that's one of the reasons In my opinion, none of them were able to translate intellect massive movie stars, honest and private came the closest levices dear it's not the garrison was you know, getting nominated for various academy. Words are things like that because they were so big on that show
and they had the latter. I bulging and mugging is exaggerated, whatever in its it's just tougher to do that in a movie. That's why, Jennifer S and she said the most success and like sailor movies, you know where she, because those sailor movies are cottages like that, they're, like extended friends universes, by wit, without missing I was gonna, say. Sometimes I watch cause, I'm always fastened my studio shows, especially as I've been on one. If you, you'd studio show you can learn everything about the show without hearing what they're talking about by the body language? How engage people are the looks on faces do they seem and the reason I know this is cuz the second euros and countdown which was not a happy second season it was. In a bar and their re running it, and it was
was that or they are running a sports centres segment we laid at three in the morning, but I couldn't hear it, but I looked at us in my body. Language looks bad that, like? Oh, no, oh, I didn't. I request that looked like that. I've just like that of steel in fact, we have we in other words of sinking backwards. I look suspicious and just like, I'm dying for the sector to be over your head. What this is my lad, so telling thing my my body, language. Could you get these situations? Is that what the as a viewer? What you want? Is you want body language narrative over the course of the segment, so it's totally okay to started uncomfortable as long as you end up comfortable. This is my my, but I think is actually perform. His genius, my she was Stephen ay- is it only has one gear No, that's not sure you missed acoustic, Stephen AIR, my pack of Jeff, I don't mind. If I did I listen to that, but now he didn't bring a band.
Just it was him in his guitarist here, but he come on no stars drop down. Stephen was regular vodka. I've there has never been a package. You ve ever done. Where you said last, I love I love when somebody where you anything rate you turn on the table. I think you Polly and urged him a couple direction. I thought you'd love for coffee in the Middle EAST as it is now and have never had you so epic. But what you want with like, where is the voice regulation where I want him in an emotional moment to get really quiet and soft and and then ran back up. I want that If I want the so I know he can do that as we would hang out at the files on the big said that they constructed and that's when we get to know each other whenever they thought we hate each other, we actually like each other, but he died. He can do it. We can do it. Yeah he's he is
I stared performance with opinion. His fate figured out. He took him forever, but he has figured out how to do it. Where there's like the little twinkle in his eye the whole time you never take him. A hundred percent secrecy like he's, put real foreign and analysis into a knowing. What is the accent better than his axis for test? Its grace is fantastic. He's the ease, their number, but I use my enemy speaking the idea, but it was didn't. I always have to bring this up its dna. I think one or both of his parents are Jamaica's neuron. We course he makes so my senses, a western totally huts. That's weird expert average per pound rich quick ran. I want to do but think about pavlovitch ally. This and pity act. I was in pity I astray baby. We did Africa, I'm just annoyed by pop of which the cost of Papa, which cannot leader saying I know this is but this
ties in to your book and perception, verse reality and how people think first is actually putting thought an stuff here, totally valid criticism of paper, which I'm not saying. I hundred percent believe this. But here's a totally of our criticism is a fucking boy. He's bullied to sideline. Reporters doesn't need to be that's your argument. These means other than Bulgaria. Boys I then reporters he gets his kicked in team. You I say and then goes effective and is like Anybody who, who is complaining about how we did like we don't need to eat that. Does this whole thing that just sounded like so lame. So I take some ownership. You guys finish, seven we've all ES basketball players as they were playing on a team here, but we starling. Seven body. Do they believe that they can be better suited to? That word was Marcus all Ricky Rubio Rudy Fernandez Sergio well, in the end, we have people
acting like we were sending you know but ran schuyler brainy out of the big three to play in the thing, and we think that the five, whereas a really good, should make you the salaries of other players, though our prayers were ten times Warner, the bus and Celtics, and they got their blackened. He picked the wrong team. He did a badge and take some ownership, but now knows about anybody criticizes us like what we do want to hear it. Those guys were fears a few playing for Spain. You try Zeppa motivation, those trying our team was motivated by the fear of being embarrassed. I think was try. They just got rattled because they added it was chemistry thing, but they would pop of it. So he's he has disdain for. Basically all the things that come with being a coach, but the to the thing that it has foot is the people around him really love him, which is great. He does this whole thing it takes ever and a day
where's. He buys the wines, and everybody says like if he'd, if he knew me, love him in that it has now become the reputation. That's the prevailing reputation. It's like well. What about the part when he's a big grant, but a squirrel sir, Others have we done so we don't get to criticise us for this anymore. Now, it's like pop his hands off right now. I'm sure somebody will put this on a fucking blog like similar ribs pop, not ripping path. I'm just talk and there's a double standard with them. He finished seventh in the world championships. If I had the record to pop, had I would he's got he's got the right response, How old is he? Seventy, I'm sorry: what's your Sadie late, sixties snowy? Seventy something now is that battled. I think I just think it's like a pop up. First, one apple with quite, why did they not work out was at whose fault was that, ultimately, tomorrow he lost the guy just one. The title on another team is just nobody asked the question worth. Imagine it's weird yeah. I think this
I would be wholly personality, sash people kind of in the grain of a certain whatever, because that's what everybody else thinks becomes ingrained. I think it's weird you know with me he squeezed coach of the last twenty five years. Ok, but out, but out to those nineteen people pick Bela check apart, bowed checks, a good counter. Eight there is talk about how bad bow check is scarves does make fun and they get Superman about him, but he's not a character like pop of which does not like a little twinkle in his eye. Allegedly he just. She has no time for his jerk onto my but then bowed chicken these press conferences were somebody will ask him a really interesting football question and your answer for like three minutes: it's fucking awesome he'll printed like yes, my bag, a bill that the way you covered that point in the second quarter, Miami the way you're, the guy. What was that, because I've never seen you do and his eyes were laid up, is like so happy here and then
Spain, it but his wares in irish and wide. Why do you need a great basketball coach to be good, good or excel anything else. Is I'm just talking more about how somebody's character takes hold one where the other year, whereas with pop, which now who's been grump, this whole decade publicly basically been that's been part of a negative. As I said, oh he's gray, we love and he gave up his summer to coach a b team, an american beating. I don't think you can harsh on and everybody else was like on the beach pop is like. Think that deeds blameless that they finished seventh were not allowed to wonder like what happened. What I'm upset about it? got matters I don't don't. Employees. Shame us that was like it's a world guys did finishing. Seventy Canadians have put together a real team. We would one right here. You would have easy easy tomorrow in just a bunch, a hockey player I mean like, and not that breaks my heart. We could have one even you're afraid to criticise pop I'm not. This is what I am talking about. What is afraid of pop?
and where do we get here? This comes up in you know what I'd have children, Jason Dusky my book, and I I it's all about how I feel like the leadership. A pencil was totally outrageously attacked over this area are blameless, but would Joe paternal job eternal essentially did nothing wrong. He hears about the allegation. Demille tell superiors and the critique of joke paternal was essentially. Why was a seventy five year old football coach, not behaving towards a suspected pedophile with the savvy and inside of a veto, a psychiatrist? right were like he's a football coach. He doesn't even know what the words there was. This, however, is the hilarious. This moment in. I think one of the trail transcripts where someone asked what does did you use when you went to when they ask me? Quarterback goes to paternal Mccleery from a good about, goes to maturity. To tell him this allegation. Did you use the word sodomy said now? I didn't uses were so and then, as a sort of thing, I thought
where they wondered whether paternal actually knew. What the word sought me people her eyes. He does it eat. His he's been thinking football twenty four hours a day, three x about easier for Sixty years he is not going to be alert to the darkness inside the heart of one of his former coaches right. You can ask him Do that? That's why you have mental health problems, animals are fit train psychologists in the world. The animal is gonna problems. We do this thing. Sometimes, when a crisis happens, we suddenly expect our leaders to be skilled. Absolutely every job under this. We know you covered this really nicely in the book about the the spy from Cuba and forty signs that this was a spy. And they just by chance they have our dead to write a one point. They misery it because they see what they want to see. Much like people think pop did a good job at the world champion. Drivers who not that he must go now is
I'm having fun with it, because I am an injured the blog posts tomorrow and somebody gets mad. God forbid the agrees as his pipe he the aggregator second come for me. The bigger the biggest horrible Viagra gaiters, knew from plum ass in this book I love spy stuff and I realized My dad is like a big he's. Gonna like earth is vineyard for the weekend as the bookstore dislike. Whatever has a red cover with like a russian symbol eyes like a man, I'm the guy. I was that Cuba is that it is of Cuba and a red cover, then I have always I've never been that guy. But I can feel like at some point in my life. I'm going that guy that through those, but I have read, Mean Lulli huh those. If it has the words find a title I own it. I have a whole section of my library at home, which is nothing but spite spy books and theirs.
I stories I didn't put in a minute. I had my way would have the whole so that maybe your next once despise there when he's crazy, is Cuba had like the upper hand with the sea? This really The small market hoops team just battling the Nixon, Lakers and ambiguous first class, buys it to act, elbow agents, an interesting thing about in general, but my story is that small countries always have so EAST Germany played West Germany, like I mean they rooted them in a spy game. Cuba has bested United States over and over again Israel massively played its larger arab neighbours in right is always the case that there are these. That ceiling we need more funding was spies. They tat we had so tromp was got this the spy thing. My conclusions were so pathetic at finding them and why bother at all, like one just give up
just give up completely lost by spot shut down the spider vision. There was a paper obeyed by this former Syria guy who said despite game the espionage. Between the Soviet Union and the United States over the course of the cold war? Ended up as a war by the end. We knew all their secrets and they neural all our secrets, because each of us had spies on me. It aside, high up in our defence, entails ran, gave a thing away. So he's like out of certain boy, you have to say one or two shut down all of the speakers oppressions, because you know further ahead sick, give it up because the money for something else, The only thing to say ever pulled off was killing JFK, it's the only thing I remember them doing successfully and they murdered president. I why I watch what are those
the pod cast. I become the aggregated, a cover for I gotta seventh Ceci killed you gay. There was an hour of cape, I can learn a Brock's which we propose to be a pike asked about how all the conspiracy talk about our of case. Death was nonsense that had the effect of completely radicalizing me, I'm thinking that there was a huge down the rabbit hall, the ethic I'm more convinced of the hour of K stuff, then the J F kissed. What J, F K? There's nothing be commits. A fifth of the sector, the books. I went down the rabbit hall, the ethic I'm more can instead, the are of K stuff, then the J F guessed. What J F K? There's nothing be commits, a fifth of the second gunmen who shot him killed him for the shattered from a different direction. Could I want us to read it out in a back: evade reactor disappeared or phone it back. If we did once I mentioned my favorite theory, which is the fact that it Jack Kate was shot accidentally by a secret service guy who's in the car behind,
act, and that was the second gunman, and I love our. I love your great there. I don't believe it, but it's a gray one end the and I had not thought ices tossed about didn't think about years later, I'm so good ground on IRAN across a whole in all of the crazy JFK shooting website paranoia thing are huge segment of that is devoted to how I can't believe global back like a crazy. That's like the least credible, my son, It's sick is what is the beginners error that spill James was? There was a big proponent of that IRA, either James James his book on none on his crime book is so completely finished, yeah. I guess he's does a good job that all the maids genes I go and though the read page, I go to you, and this is the guy It is true that the then I've Celtics patriots, red Sox rather pages and conspiracy, are you going
I go every day while I always check conspiracy, beloved road conspiracy, page that it's completely crazy, but they they were they put on this Epstein thing from like day one and as the Epstein thing unfolded over the last few months was. It was like a victory that for them, overlay really felt like finally were. Finally, we hit one of these You know what were they a thing from day one they were just like it from that from the moment I mean he would dig out of jail. Doesn't seven, but that when the Miami New Eddie was the Miami New Times, they did thou Jane the huge long peace like a year ago, fix was in on his initial in his initial sentence that that fixing them, but then, when the Miami paper broke all the stuff that actually happen, and you know that if you go into the deep internet they feel like there's this hold rich people people and you know under age, girls all over the place and eyes wide shouts a pair
but for all these different things that happened and ends, but he probably has an island and then it turns out this guy actually had an island when you have the added it's a problem, nobody has been able to see it's a red when you have the island, you lie, lies weird shit and weird pictures and that stores borders, and that was the worst story in ten years. Yes, bed and I actually think it didn't get enough attention where they, especially the power, where oh, he managed to kill himself in jail as two cameras just happen to be better functioning the same time the two guards were ceiling as they have been overworked in it, and it just kind came and where there is like what is going on and now people think he's still alive real. They think they took a day. Body that that's where off men on all the other stuff, but the whole figure under thing.
The conspiracy thing, which is gone sideways in a lot of horrible as this decade, and I think, is one of the ways we're going to remember all the bad things that happened this decade. I still, I still enjoy some of the old school ones like that Jay. Kara year die like one that, like kicks reckon conspiracy, I thought that was be trumps only positive thing, he did this entire presidency was unleash all the J F K files. Just I am finding out. Ok, You are foes vague. I only three OECD this as I doubt you could never do that. Lets antics. More break. Let's take Roma braids talk about door dash an app I just used about five. As regards dinnertime, you stomachs rumbling stolen away. You need tonight. I know that sounds familiar door dash. You don't need to get it from the cash to get a meal cooking. They connected to your favorite. Transfer the city ordering Zizi he's the door dash app choose what you want to eat a dash,
bring it to you anywhere. You are not only that bird replace you live, there might be a door dash and probably is Moreover, these really when they see that allow three ten thousand other amazing restaurants are there to they connect your door to door delivery in over thirty three hundred cities off. If these states and Canada order from local go to searches from your favorite chains, Chapeau lay Wendy's, chick fillet which the summits family has stepped into multiple times. Thanks the door dash and the Cheesecake factory. Don't worry about dinner lead, come to you with door dash right now our list, as can get five hours of the first order of fifteen hours more when you download the door dash app and enter promo code bill five hours of the first order, then the door dash at from your appstore the app store any appstore and then a promo code bill get just do it sits what said while luminary the pack ass subscriptions,
as to some of the best content around, including we watch was thanking. Any languages which is headed toward finnish will. Therefore left. We also did breaks down. The story was sacked, thanked him and nine, which you can you can find in the in the luminary. I do a search for stuff and we have a new common next month, the winos anew in it we did. Did you owe him a unique teased it it's it's about a basketball franchise that is within the National Basketball Association and still is therapy. My teeth. Luminary gives you access to a bunch of other original shows like the one that I just teased from innovative dynamic it is can't find anywhere else Trevor Noah, there's, there's a sex pakistan that gonna see say the name, but it's one guy rise has one fiasco about transit.
That one star there is not a good ones, the luminaries free download. You can use it to listen that thousands of Bacchus, including this one within the music tv film, calmly sports, whatever What's that ninety nine and so much more like reaction, was there nine. Only on luminary get first, two months just luminaries premium content for free when he said, but luminary Download Flash Simmons after that, it's only seven hundred per month limit that links slash Simmons two months of free access, cancel anytime terms, do apply. Let's talk about something you told me before. I start this black ass, yet the spokesmen Africa one week and.
The actual hard cover is selling seventy percent as much as the audio book, the audio books. So right now, yet we are of the number of audio books. So we did a special audio book supervise the super interesting and we did especial audio books. Were the audio books is producing a pot gas. So you here I don't read someone's quote any odd. I gave you the tape and I we have scoring. We got a sign from genome and aid, which is a theme song of the thing and we use our cable tape and death toll is like listening to ten consecutive revisions, history punkahs. He listened to the book ten chapters. Ten, and what happened is that the so the book came out and I said to somebody beforehand: I was in England, and my English publishes said you know Jordan Peterson's book in England
the audio book out cells, the physical book, as it really is. Historically the audio books like ten percent of total sales yeah. But what was happening with a generation he's a lot of very, very young followers who experienced him on line and they were for him for them. They he was a digital phenomenon and so he put out a book, they just they want. They been listening to him on Youtube and listen to. I just want to listen to him, and so what happened with me is. I think the same thing has happened, who said a whole universe of podcast listeners, who tend to be much younger. Who know me from revisionist history know if my previous books are just migrating over and getting the book of color books come out listen to it and now this is weird thing where I'm not even sure you know five years to know what percentage, how small, with the percentage of physical books be theirs everyone to be.
Is, that could be the primary way you consume some large number of of authors, sir. I'm trying to process this chasm, stun that I would have expected a higher but not for it to beat the number it may, and I think goes back to what I said earlier about the queue and an eye a bookstore changed. I think I think this whole decade has as conditioned audiences, to be used to a conversation You know and to be used to hearing the author speak or the host speaker that that kind of intimacy than listening to it when they're working out or when they're driving or when they're flying somewhere commuting or whatever- and I just I was in New York, city and DC. You know last weekend you see everybody with the airports, every everybody, it's like invasion of the bodies that are all day. It is within the next invasion by statures, where they just fix the airports, and you have become an alien, yeah yeah. I guess what I did
see anybody. Reading a book changed why you even walked out an airplane it. So it's used to see every person had about now. Half the people working there and Peter or they're just watch a movie or that there are funds also is super interesting because it is about a power from people who wrote well to people who talk well right. So I think about this when I listen to ring apart gas Yuval Group of people so give one random exempt Mallory Reuben, yet matter. Reuben talks really really well right, she's a voice you want to listen to for whatever we can break down, but there's something her personality comes through she's. Incredibly compelling ten
ago. That would not have mattered right. It would win us, it will bring. You would have been if you talk to her casually in the office. You'd have been charged by the conversation, but the fact that she had an incredible verbal presence was a stray factors unless she went on tv but then TVS complicated, because then you have to look the part as well sound apart now with audio all of a sudden well, who have this particular weird, previously undervalued gift, a big able to express themselves really well, but also the tone of their voice is of a voice. You want to spend time with right that person is now suddenly elevated right. The book contract Mallory could get to day is ten acts when it would have been of dont tower that she's gonna leadership, it Alaric
that fasting, like this happened bill, as happened in the two years that everything flipped and a random group of people with compelling voices. I think they went to the head of the line. I think something else happened, though I think people been listening to the stuff now really since the middle of last decade, but they have this whole twelve thirteen year, history of just listen, a pack ass in some people. Listen to him at one point: two: five speed: I've never done one five feed, which I don't want to. I can't you higher than that. I felt like it's like you just here your ears did cocaine based glazed sensation, but I think they're, just by hearing costly everybody else's pike ass. It makes somebody better Pakistan, Sir rhythms. They pick up certain tracks in. Things like that and I you know you weren't learning anything from talk radio. Now you are going to be I too, like your local shit ads on the drive time show like TAT. You know like the guys in Boston talking about we gotta take between movie and J D in yeah you're, not,
in better you're, not getting better professionally by listening to that yeah yeah. But if you listen to pack, I say you really like and barring certain things. I think that helps, but I thought the thought of an hour of your book, outselling net fiscal book- I would not have predict, So this is how it sees it seems like this is now like at the end. They do this every day. The serious thing bothers me when there are lacking when cereal podcast took off his pack has very taken off narrative park has took officer pack has been around for a while doing really. Well trust me: what's what's changed, I think right now, when we talk about revolution, steps is, could could this could audio books and pack has replaced books with us the question so why ten years you know
I put out a physical book at all. Is it enough or was it simply an afterthought? Do I do an audio book? I then some one sees it says: do you mind if I turn it into a visible physical, chemical capture or Maybe it's like where she has become it out and Chaise Basque, my book. They really want this movies books can do. I am one of those who thinks he did with the book is There's a lotta illustrations and it's just a fun book to read and interact. That's not just traditional here's forger pages of words yeah Ok, so there's a clear, so they have. I ever did another bat basque by book. I would I would do I would make it a more fun book to read than just hear all these words yeah
the lady that ran, if you read it Book of basketball and you broke up the top one hundred into ten segments of ten players each and it's ten to ten chapter audio book and you release the audio book one chapter a week for ten weeks and you charge two dollars for each chapter. I mean that's a really interesting proposition. All of a sudden right build up a sense of suspense about What's coming next, I mean it's like you could do a kind of it could be a kind of shaggy, Gus redder know it I think about the books, the book ideas. I have ahead that just sail away as watched him go like I can read it, thing, I can read a really good covered the red book, because I've seen time, then I think you could tell the story of the last twelve years a league through him.
These are fascinating guy at these misunderstood in some ways, at these properly understood and other ways and he'd be really good book. I would never one, I spent his hands here, but I do think you didn't do in Europe. Forgive me for returning cause. I love booked a basketball so much, and I think you didn't do that. You should have done my one. Take a there's more than one could take that this has been my big written. They are supporting the book up into two bucks. Is you should have had one absolutely bananas choice: You should have put someone in the top ten who no one in the history of basketballs, airport and soft and you needed You do like you, a controversy dislocation. People are paying attention like, like picks somebody make give me give me make a case a wholly implausible case for somebody to get me thinking about like so were the reason right
so, if you, if there's something about basketball players- and you have ideas about this- that you think is radically undervalued, yeah, so pick taker chemistry guy and put him in the top ten- and you say you know what this guy was. The ultimate chemistry guy, I know established May I would never besmirched the pyramid, like that fair was very carefully constructed. The thing is we need to Madame more than ever, as everyone gets a dolphin yes, which everybody is reckless, it's unbelievable here. Dear crows, is propagated, cause you when they ve pay way either it's ridiculous wait. We talk about I'd, economizing content, so I've been experimenting with my pick us listening. Trying to broaden it. I was be listened to. This buck has got dissect yeah
She's genius skill in it and in the basket nerdy in the absolute best possible ways that somebody sky what's his name, is a burning Chris Noah, so the sea anyway he dies. The package is a guy one guy who breaks down, typically rap, albums or but sometimes army ups disregard ocean. He does tell the creator and he dies Conway in so listen to the first episode of it was the second in his Conway Series and he's talking about that moment in two thousand and nine. I think it is when Conway member interrupts ah at the Grammy's. He says when Taylor Swift, is about to when he says you with all due respect. Beyonce at the greatest video of all time. Is this big controversy. I forgot that Obama call among other people, called him a jackass after that
This huge moment in in pop culture, the con yea stood up at the Grammy's and dared to call into question the fact that they voted Taylor Swift over the answer. Right now with fancy, without, of course, is that the idea of a participant in a contest disputing the result- in the world of sport is commonplace, yeah you and where I am worried that it will hardon Westbrook complain about it, but no in the game to like a RAM Sates game like I had I also every single players speaks up after that so and with interesting, but that is it a football game. Is the outcome of a football game is actually highly legitimate innocence it. The goes on forever. You have a hundred chances to win and complain,
so weak, but even then we allow someone to complain about one of those one hundred outcomes if they don't say on entirely fair yeah we're fine with it we're fine with the coach of the players popping off we're in far more blunt ends and uncivil terms about the unfairness of the outcome. Kenya complains about the outcome of a totally absurd. Thirdly, rigged illegitimate, like Grammy voting. Are you kidding me like Grammy voting is like a bunch of and they even no votes for its people did even half the public pay. Attention died when Toto, unlike five grandma, nobody ever took them. Sir said I mean I don't editing the death of the gravest, so you have you have a kind of posturing. Lee preposterous election guy stands up, who is a legitimate player in the world of music and points out something that bodily is true in wretched
act did Beyond say, deserved the Grammy over too. I think it was. I think people get upset because it various into her, and I was a young woman in people felt like it was not clear about Taylor. Swift could take care of us whether we do know that at the time We just never as like him, I mean like young coming, aren't going to take care of themselves more for now, we believe she's. Nobody, like my put his like enough in sports. It's fine and the process is legitimate in music. They act It's it's the act like Moses to my house and had the Grammy's on Stone tablets and Conway hope. Connie. A question Moses is like the whole picture and the fact that we got so upset this that Obama Obama felt com away in Calcutta jackass that was running it. Secondly, you listen to the take. Rather general, I think it would be funded, have a game shove Obama's worst in it, actions versus Trump Situated figure. She said,
totally, would have intervened kind ever stare served him. There was a way, move or Obama will, I think, even some weird ones over the eight years I can definitely was Leon himself, is very serious, really had. I don't know the context in which he waited, but I got very second the tape itself. It's not like it's an outrageous, he actually comp. He says he. I forgot the exact words uses, but he's he says you. I respect your accomplishment, but I gotta say beyond say. Video is the best video of the last ten year. Whatever it's not like he's saying, you know why you you don't deserve this railway girl, like no, it's actually deodorant he's doing what any music Finn with real music, they would do but in the wool, abuse are not allowed to be a music fear yet, which I just think is bananas. Wrong with the world of music, where everyone acted like an atrocity had just been committed because khanate,
dare to prefer legitimately beyond thing over Taylor. Swift. What's and let's foot that her answer sports example? serene at the? U S open. Last year, oh yeah yeah gets the penalty for being coached. Would she was which they caught on videotape of the coach coaching, her and the UN? now them on it now whether that was her father and I don't think it was in. That's why she got upset, that's coach and he was coaching and the guy saw any nail their that's one penalty, second pound she broke her racket on the court appointment the runway. She shattered her racket and then and then after that started parading the up and was calling him a thief and all these things and then lost game penalty in a mad say in my opinion she would have lost anyway and it swung, serene as well as a man, so unfair. What happiness arena do you think would happen or
got coached coach got caught, she destroyed a racket and she called the umpire thief. I don't know with poor Serena on this one. I think I think that story was somewhere in the middle right. I think the empire, but when I had a perfectly, but I'm airing, I much prefer a world where athletes IX athlete or music stars lodge express their legitimate emotion, and passions in the middle of these highly charged contacts. What I don't like is sanctimonious era that people have that that treats sports contest like they're like like it's an election or like is you know it's the It's that it's that the cardinals meeting in the Vatican to choose an Ex pope and how dare you question that you know the selection process since when, since when are these, these popular culture ritual sacred, do not sacred right
we do a lot better place when people rolled arise at a rate at a Grammy selection and say you guys stood up and better that that sets and the other the lady. You feel this way, because the jamaican spread team is. Cheating with steroids for the last like twenty years, and you ve just look the other way. I'd been now. You just look. The other way is spent hysteria after I'm sorry, which ah splinter in the past few months was, was a temporary medicine, Are you kidding about the sprinter? The jamaican night duck abandonment got demands now there What was it is? U S? Brain ranches got caught critical, although it turns out it's a much more complicated case and it appears he wasn't cod for cheating. He had a you know, you're required to you, have, as he was a user whereabouts violation. You know, because they they You get tested as many as fifty times a year and they shop at all hours and you have to tell
where you are, and if you don't tell him where you are then, but it Basque above all, they might want to take a page and tennis may want to take. Agent ask about what you're talkin about they throw this tested. The garbage should think there never. As was never having repeatedly areas while they grit they get no name, we don't write dragon field and we test you. You know once every couple days and in the middle, and I will come knocking on your door in you. If you dont produce a year in separate, you're in trouble. I died the way it works at that level the only way and there would be an MBA superstar Pd Scandal- is if the guy was being photographed by like an investigative team walking out of You know that the pharmacy, or whatever, with a whole box that says steroids in big letters and as I pick a superstar innovation, cities is Walker, got by steroids, Patsy
even then Adam survey like while we don't know about we do know, can't judge issues too, though we couldn't find the box. Nothing was. There will never seen him before. I get this amazing, the basque most Ray, what to tell not nothing to do with swords but having to do with the greatest Basque operable. I had a very bad lebaron. I just really interesting now know that
current our collaboration, I'd Michael Jordan, the greatest day hookah though I don't feel a branch or through that I had a child with this guy who runs a company that at the it's one of those eyes that you have a civil respond and the respond collects. You know how would it collects like forty bits if I forgotten how many bits of physiological data yeah and they crunch it, sent to a server and conscience and give you all your redoubts? They do this work with athletes and warnings. It dies as it tells you about you, it's really about your recovery, so we'll say after you worked out ill saying you wicked next morning, he'll say how much have you recovered from your exertion the day before, and why this is interesting is that you ve had always discussions with reseller and others. I know
the eighty two game embassies in Asia to law, which would be extinct, sir. So this is all about that number right that if you are day in day out not getting back into the green green is cited forgotten, I think at seventy five percent and about you below seventy five percent recovery you are or below fifty percent recovery. You are risking injury by continuing to exert yourself at a high level. So guys who don't- and this is a very, very powerful predictor of your chances of getting ensured. So, if you're, someone who does not bounced back to seventy five or eighty on a daily basis, you're heading into danger zone, so they were talking about Leubronn, was fastened about abroad is said. I've never seen anything like it abroad is a guy who can right after his work out, he will be in the twenties and the next morning. He second eighty. He just that, and the argument was usually fasting, that
be one of the things that makes him so extraordinary as a kind of as an athlete. Is it not that his overall levels of performance are greater than his peers, but that he returns to something close to normal, faster everybody else, so the other guys. So if everybody was fully rested, The bronze advantage over would also be five percent, but on in games. Seventy five. His advantage is twenty five percent because he's at eighty five- and there are forty right and then the second question is well how much of that is innate and how much of that is why out his? Is that, because the bronze doing something different, nay said yeah, that it does some of it is in aid. The summit is the bronze has taken this question of recovery more seriously than his then than his his peers in basketball. I love that, and so there was the truth as Ivan finals when he they fucked, it could see the Miami felt like he was tired
during that final Jonas Salk against Dallas yeah, and they put him on now minutes limit that next regular season and basically forced him to come out. You want to come out and there that was, I think, the first time a team was gearing somebody toward Peter Warne, the playoffs, but that this solution is that you know the way to precisely measured. Yeah. I think that when this this guy was suggesting that these tools are now infiltrating professional sports, and so, if you game is out what is really clear. Bottles are for training, freshness for tools of measuring someone's catches. That's that's our tat. I got so. I think the question of whether basketball hasn't eighty two games he's not his mood. The wish you ll see in a couple seizes is simply teams will manage their everyone's minutes. According to these independent metrics and no one's gonna play eighty two games right. Nice does either way I think we're gonna, see
teams driving their stars into the ground, because they're gonna be leaving anyway and jumping to another table. It's the Dallas Dallas Cowboys. De Marco Murray, right yeah. He's got reengineer its? I hate the marker, here's another! It carries you're living like in retrospect. If you think the guy may be leaving What do you care about preserving em you now, unless she think you actually can win the title? Does this mean that the raptors genuinely thought they had a shot of hanging onto too quiet I was going to mention this Thea, I'm really fast and see what happens. There's a ha ha Butscha shake on behind the scenes right now in the NBA, with the tampering, an alliance, a lot of its been reported, but we're talking about. Oh owners are people that work for certain franchises really trying to crack down on tampering liking.
Crazy way. Slang we get to check your phones, that kind of stuff and Adam sobers at you know he's at a point here where he could start morphine David Stern. If he's not careful, I know you can unite on, say that lately and are you further David Stern? Well, I think I think I think people are looking to him to solve this year and the only way for him to solve this is to have more power and what's more power, it's the tampering finds a ridiculous. You actually have people checking, phones and stuff, but that the thing is, I would say, on the team. Am I need to see or found Gladwell? Wouldn't you have like? Seven phones I don't really like. I don't think, checking value. Just Billy hey Tommy, can you get another apple, eleven and then I'll just take it and pay the Adele and then your texting? Whoever from the thing, they can't stop what happened, but I think this I once
Then there is something that happened. This summer I won't say say the air, the teams, but apparent from one team to the other and there's just a lot. Smoke and there's a lot of smoke that dates back a lotta buds and That is very clear that conspiracy about this is your things. That were brought up in certain meetings that made people go, wait a second it. This is the smoke and they say what happened this summer cannot happen again. You cannot have which do are you talking about that? I'm not sandwich but by There is more than one team. I think multiple, or the maddest debut Abbe. We had more mad teams this summer. That felt, like last season was actually compromised in some way for them by players having one foot
the door, nigh radically Calais when the title we owe he can't be blamed for but I refuse to feel sorry for the owners, because, although I realise that you need to do a rule change for this, but this is a very simple solution to this kind of plan movement that is onerous, need to give equity stakes in a franchise to destroy our players. Wanna write, so if you were to Toronto, you want to hang onto quite in a perfect universe. You should be able to say why will pay you you're normal amount under the cap right this you're asking for, but this should be a rule that says
you want, if you know, don't you want to give a player as a sheep? It might is not me I'm guessing now to do that. You shine, you should be able to say to go. I will give you one percent of the French. I tried it out, Madge Answer, but only if you stay and but if you say two years you get two percent. If you stay three years, you get three percent while not does quite increase the. Is that a good deal for the honor absolutely? Does it introduce a really positive trend in ownership? Totally, does the idea that players don't evacuees Dixon Franchises, makes no sense whatsoever. I? What would I would like to see is up. I've been thinking with us for start ups as well. The partnership, the law, firm partnership model, is a really really useful one. So imagine if you had a franchise in which the starters on the team are the partners they all on a piece of
choice if they get, you know tat. If you leave the team, the team buys back your seat right under the same way. If your partner in your seat licence it a seat licensed if your party or die they buy you out right, they give you a lump sum upon leaving and your share the French as no they don't. So you give imaginary who said as a general rule in the NBA that twenty five percent of the franchise he equity enfranchise needs to be held in partnership by the starters on the basketball team. The super interesting way of about it. You have to do it. You could do if you want to do what, if what, if they made a rule that the franchise could invest in the players buddy multimillion I empire
because they allow going there now you do you're gray eyes now have their own empire now could be. That could be part of it. It's like, I beg you, have a salary, but then you also it's a ten million our investment when they do they have in their whatever Katy thirty five, but imagine that we pass this rule and so I'm Dango partners. Oh, I have a way to make the Cavaliers the number one destiny for every sharply win. The lottery for the sixth time and better embarrassed that out setting aside my franchises, what's what the calves worth a billion for a lot less a come on, get a billion for these days. I think eight hundred look at it.
An hundred as part of the high number of its size, furlough TIM, I'm gonna, set aside a tutor million dollar equity stake in my franchise to my five starters, and so each daughter will have a partnership. That is worth forty mind. It would never do this will, but no they would do that if they thought I would. If, if would you, if you damn Gilbert, and you thought that by doing that, you could attract five of the biggest stars and again to come, the people would do you you would do it you're talking about a group of rich guys that are always convince their smarter than are ready ass, though just pay like I'll just find the next. Whoever did Tillman for tighter, though the Houston owner the book. This we caught shut up and listen to the actual title, the work and its his advice for business and life. This guy owns debated so fantastic shut. Listen separatist. These
these guys these owners they're out there. Now they figure, don't need the purse, that's what so frustrating I think to them about. This is like the purse of foot the dynamic on them then it's one of those rare things were kind of everybody's. Happy except, I think, people in their twenties eleven papers who thinks it is great that its use musical chairs do this. I worked with dignity that I was in love with Ramona Chevrons others thoroughly sterling, and one of the purposes is really, though the one that goes into sterling's past as a landlord and allay points. At the two sat on two separate occasions, I'm here to settle cases brought by the department justice where he was discreet, cues, credibly and of awe of discriminating against African Americans, and this happens and he selling these cases for systematic dispute, housing discrimination against black people and is the owner of e in sports franchise, largely
played by African Americans want happens, nothing. I was nothing happens, but twenty years later, com, the racist somewhere to my call on its rocky places, like it ahead, two thousands, but somehow I taped phone call with his girlfriend when he objected to her putting an instrument picture with magic. Johnson, that's gonna, bring him down right and there's a wonderful moment. I think it's Matt Barnes Court has met Barnes in in the pike ass. You say: why is there what is the stray comment, his girlfriend Brigham down when we knew the dude was systematically discriminating, typing when I was a fine with me. I am what I want. I want this so
question about. One is why we heckled Baron Davis, who was on his own tied his own team from courts. I know, but this an interesting distinction- and I get into this actually my book- that the distinction between D, the institutionalize racism, is the kind of state that somehow where oblivious to, but the personal stuff is a step that we flipped out about personal conduct, If it seems a little bed, you know off color or the disreputable. We go nuts and we try the guy the league, but the guy was systematically discriminate against black people right. Nobody, started early, but why is it that kind of contradiction and the second the old says, because that that the actual audio of hearing voice say this stuff is just easier for people to understand like this is the same. They came up with where Rice re Rice goes to Diana found somebody get fired from the ringer refrain.
During the decisive say we all know he hid his girlfriend. Yeah really hard she was dragging the elevator? Was the assumption we'll find that, like all right, just take couple games are right see the video which shows you owe you hit either way. When really we weren't fine with that, because the suspension was too low, which was one of the reasons that became such a big thing that signing didn't there. We had description of an activity which generated x, amount of controversy, and then, when we had a picture of the activity which confer exactly what we were told before, yet we figure, but that's this injustice
A similar version of that. Somehow the existence of a tape with Donald Sterling is a scandal off the charts, but you know documented evidence that he runs a business which discriminates against African Americans is something that you know where was Davis Journey was like it just kind of like it was considered to be irrelevant fact. But my question is why so, when you, when you, when you fast for the present day- and you look back on the lessons of the doll sterling Affair, the lessons not the done sterling is bad apple. Blesses is something fundamentally wrong with a league where a handful of billionaires, our court uncle owning these teams, thinking they couldn't figure out how to get rid of them. I would talk to people about this who work for the lake, and I were like we he's gotta do something. First, there was a
There was almost like going back to your book like they're, just doing the random stops, hoping this will be the day they stop his car and have a gun in it ultimately wench by a team. That said you on the team- and I can't get rid of the purse without, but there was a way which we figured out with. Second final Donald sterling. The thing it brought him down ultimately was the decision by both the players any advertisers enough is enough right, but ultimately she didn't have to sell. He did but it was, he got an awesome price and there is a bidding were any address Caruso and he had aplomb are and what ultimately they weren't gonna play. I dont believe that do not leave it to day. I think one of the great missed opportunities this decade was them not playing in that way. After If countdown that day- and we thought there is a chance to clippers work into play and then they came out just through their warm up, submit corn got blown out, they showed that I wish, if we did
together. I think that would have been such a cool moment if they're like now, actually we're not playing yet has now what happens was They had now you're putting all the power now yell about it. A huge missed opportunity, but we need some smart people in that time. You know hook. You know the hero of that pocket. I lit up by so much. The hero is doc. Rivers right he's great. In those situations, whatever problems you had about Doug Rivers in the past, the window when he comes across his thick full where he was awesome during that whole strategy, what he would have you revised year, you will you I like that. I have to sterling thanks. These are both real estate, things that explain how he treated Coopers. He had a b is building a he might still have it. I think it's on will share in Beverly Hills and it's like a ten or eleven story, buildings, the whole bullshit corridor. He has he's the only office in the building, or at least this was the case five years ago. When you see these are our stories. People told me five years ago, whether their turner,
but now I don't know, but he didn't have any of us in the building didn't run out any their offices. You didn't like in the elevator. If anybody else you know so he had a twelve ten eleven twelve story building and it was just haven does it. The other thing is in Melbourne on pc age. For people are saying members it's on the ocean. Theirs one way in one way up it's his long highway and there's houses on the ocean and a bunch of stores and theirs one part about like when you're driving down, maybe like twenty minutes for cinema, appeared that as the more is pizza, it's got this sort of shopping center. And if you look across the street, it's maybe a for house lot, that's just empty nothing's, their sterling onset and doesn't do anything with it to sitting it just empty and he kind of likes it its head.
Like selling stuff, but he likes holding things here, which is how he treated the clippers yeah. It was like here's, this team just glad to have it. I don't care what happens to it, and then you go to the games dressed in black with his arms folded, building a barren Davis like he is the this person, who is we're pastor, national Mass boss, a sandwich you yet appeared. We will yellow. He was pretty heavy that year will, I was hearing a barren David S. Extra have is out there. I did. I ever tell you. I told my birthday, Mr Watts, Alan. I was in a hotel in Chicago the lobby, and I look at the corner of my eye. I see for very tall people come in parent and Melbourne Ojeda told the start out again and then Baron Davis spots me and he goes yo, you the tipping point and they were reading tipping putting their book group itself.
So many levels that they have had a third. It was the other seven workers right that and I quote Club Book Club and they really mean. But I love Baron David, so much that we like, but it did cement when I heard bad Matt Barnes on the Pike ass, I was reminded, I think I don't know anything about my parents be strikes me as do Please deeply interested in corn. I wrong yeah I've outside he had media potential here, he's dabbled in some, but I would be interested to see if you care yeah yeah. He was here you go up and I wish I was like in the ito in my entire life basic atop, Forbearing Davis, to shout across a crowd of lobby YO, we re the to put his like the best. You know. I did the NBA draft diary for Blake Reference draft. He was the first peck and it had leg go also it whatever they would burn these graphics and his goal was to host centre at live, and I made this, open the dire as like, oh yeah, the that are ten thousand one. Meanwhile, he
was the out Baldwin Roast last, we can. He was a great he's really has really good deliveries? Jokes we're, unlike might actually happen, though, be amazing if that was in the NBA draft, just that that, his goal is the host Sarah alive and he actually maybe a survivor watch. You watch the attic problem now. I saw that part. They were part of it I'm I'm I'm gonna watch how I still lovers that sort of the last, places yet were left or anything goes thrill, yet she wrote you impressive, make jokes antibiotic Jeff Ross, and you will be doing this until he's Ninety years allow my every I know we make fun of them constantly about that because in like oh sexy was claiming it was done with us, and now it's like you can have one without em. I thickly covered everything. We had everything we go next. I am going to Northern California, where I will do War, endless events just sneak in a couple: rich guy events,
tell me where the AIDS virus thinks in some rich guy advance notice. Such I'm all about the people are not. You're like the bride of rich guy Aurettes settling the bronze played fifty six thousand minutes eve than fifty six thousand minutes of rich guy. That's just seven see as having tunafish today eleven in the morning, so it is all compliant Lillian. This is good, read the book. It's got talking to strangers thanks for wherever I thank the Gladwell. I can wait for Thursday morning Our packs now is most intriguing and surprise, guest Gaza can you guess this? I promise you thanks to Cypriot, her, don't forget to go to secure dot com such bs thanks to them. I'm glad what thanks to square. So is more than a little way credit card reader. It's a whole system tools bill to run and grow any kind of business from point of on payroll to invoices,
stores, gotta square dot, slash, go slash, bs all the ways you can take your business from square one to whatever's, decks, Kyle, Thirsty, how scenarios thirty new segment called cows corner? You have to tell sorry about your life at the end of August, yeah coastguard! That's coming Thursday. One way.
Transcript generated on 2020-04-24.