« The Bill Simmons Podcast

MJ’s Second Retirement, Explained. Plus: Chuck Klosterman on 'Survivor,' Defining Greatness, and Two Months of Quarantine Life | The Bill Simmons Podcast


The Ringer’s Bill Simmons shares an essay he wrote about Michael Jordan’s retirement (4:25) before he is joined by author Chuck Klosterman to discuss the 40th season of ‘Survivor,’ generational gaps between athletes, nostalgic basketball behavior, and the 1992 dream team, as well as quarantine life, the historical weight of the COVID-19 pandemic, and more (24:45)

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
It is absurd to be ass. Back ass than the Ringer POD cast network brought to you by zip, recruiter. Hey, we don't know what the upcoming for bosses it is gonna. Look like we don't know of one tenth as many people in every section, Winona they're gonna been our car sales to cut down a bathroom trips her if people over sixty five or but go. Who knows things might be a little up in the air some things remain certain a guard presenting sponsorship, critters mission through this, their dedicated to helping people find jobs in Europe in growing companies higher for their teams. If we look for a job, zip critters apple send you to up to date. Job opening sea can be one of the first to apply by connecting job seekers with employers. Zip code are committed to helping our workforce stay. Strong, zip code that come sash work together is where you want to go for that one. Meanwhile, what central kitchen
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every billions episode on uncertain on Showtime and given the directors commentary safer, because they're the shell runners and co creators of that show, Three watch was by the way we had a special guest on wednesdays. Podcast disarray, came out Groundhog day with me and Sean Fennessey. You can find that on the rewatchables speed we're doing crimson tide next week we have a couple more good ones. Coming up, we've been on a nice run on that podcast, though it's time to pump out the content take people's buds, our stuff that at that allowed us? We can do here coming up. I wanted to read is it something that I wrote two years ago Actually, when the brand James was about to be a free age in his last year in cleveland- and I was comparing it to what happened when Michael Jordan was about to be a free agent in nineteen. Ninety and the revision is history that came out of him retiring a second time. The truth is He didn't have anywhere else to play and I
and even know if their covering this an absurd, nine and ten of the last dance. But this is, a crucial amazing point of this whole ass. The answers as you watch it the fact that the balls most out a J arise during the owner and both Jim Jerry Crass were so willing to just cast this dynasty away in that if a gateway to bring and Jackson, Pippen and Michael Jordan or to the three, are, however, to just to try to keep winning titles, it's amazing so I did all the research on this two years ago. I'll talk to some people. I was surprised when I found out so I'm going to read that at the top. It's about twenty minutes long, if you want to fast forward, not listen to that and listen to my awesome skills might Maya Audio books skills. You don't want to hear that just fast forward. Twenty minutes check closer men is gonna and we're Talkin survivor, we're talkin. I generational staff, with Jordan, the bran, whether Basque Bob, whereas get better in general, why we have to try to keep figuring out there
we're about time when technically the prayers just be getting better every twenty years with Ivan all that, and we talked a lot about the quarantine actually and what life is like and Anna gets a little deep, so be prepared anyway. That's all coming up first hour friends from project. Remember what right have, naturally, the majestic home run when the pen and exploded the lights were Michael Jordan. Here, hold that often relay trailing by three points in Utah with forty one. By nine seconds remaining in a dangerous game? Seven looming Jordan, cat Billy shredded three jaspers for uneasy lab, stripped and oblivion calm alone and the other end
then dreaming that I kind jumper brain rustles, tumbling mug. To swing the ninety indeed finals, no other boys player, touch the bar. I repeat, no other bulls. I touched, the ball. We already thought Jordan was the greatest, and then he did that. Even if the Delta Centre didn't shower everyone with sparks those forty one point, nine seconds reside and a different planet like Tiger prevailing Tory pines and a busted me or Ali pouncing and tearing George formed in Zaire when we are believe someone was truly great, truly different really special, and then they do. Heard again anyway, and when that happens, it's almost theory, to watch the final level of everything I caught. That game say. In bar in Boston or Weird recently in the white flag and are increasingly pathetic. Bread was than Michael Stance, but
and thousand eight eight m J had evolved into America's one man, nineteen, eighty? U S hockey team Argento, should answer for the Beatles and Mohammed Ali, its fared argue about the start, to finish careers of Jordan and the brain, but the boy can never truly challenge Jordan. Unless you reaches that specific point in the past? Fifty years, only Jordan, Ali and Tiger were so transcendent that everyone rooted for them during their crimes. They unlocked the following achievement: unanimous approval. We respect the Bron, we revere Jordan, so an M J retired from Basque about seven months after game, six new tie it fell. Just art warming is re halves playing catch with his bastard son, who could barely throw what way to go out the end. But what if I told you that Michael Jordan wanted to come back on the he couldn't find a team? Thirty four thirty percent
go without a team directed by Jason Hair. Let's go back to the fallen. Ninety ninety seven back when Chicago is turning out to compelling dramas season, for we are in Jordan's final season. Jordan genuinely despise Chicago's paranoia general manager, Jerry Kraus who'd, been aggressively planning for the imminent charges of Jordan, Scotty Pippin and fell Jackson. The problem with Kraus, as David Halberstam wrote in playing for keeps, was that Kraus quote deserve more credit. Then he got but one more credit than he does served and quote imagine age, because president seething about David chastened, James Ganda Fini getting too much credit for the sopranos, then spending season seven openly Gee for new, show, runner and star. Will this was worse, crass constantly bristled about getting credit for that was that esteem when he couldn't get it he effectively dead needed it. Maybe they should have been that I saw a fan plaque you got in and ninety seven, the other problem.
Miserly balls owner Jerry Rainstorm paid record breaking money to his meal ticket Jordan, but Wooden obliged for M J fill an Scotty ever the opportunist Jackson nickname that seasonal ass dance and motivated his tribe accordingly, to past decades. Later, it seems impossible a crass and ran starve, underestimated Jackson's connection with Jordan that badly even worse several new that crass planner replacing throw the college coach named TIM Floyd. You know because any I'm? U can jettison Phil over TIM Freakin Floyd. You have to do it. Meanwhile, a sulking Pippin headed final year was criminally underpaid contract, determined to get paid and not by Chicago the franchise that dukedom with lobe, stance is that once but twice Scotty had into the last dances? The top ten point, future famer in the end is one hundred and twenty second highest paid player and even Jackson'S- finances and master tricks. Couldn't sues, caddies, bitterness here
than an ailing left for our summer he's gone the team. By waiting until October for surgery he lost another three months. Any left Jordan carry everything which, of course he did. So not helping their third, we're being recently erratic Dennis Robin who is Charlie shining his where the league, the finish line, was coming. You could see it new the end part one hour. Snow was incredible documentary about the Eagles as the Bandsmen, slowly grow to despise one another. Everyone expects them the break up until finally happens. On page nineteen, eighty with Glenfern down Felder nearly brawling on stage is the band implodes, the bulls there had their long beach. Eighty moment, just a drama filled final sees in that became its own farewell tour of sorts, the shook off and AIDS and start and slew of issue Chicago done. Think pieces by ripping off an astonishing fifty one in ten stretch, fuelled by as always the homicidal competitive Jordan
I know, Jordan's GO resume, kicks off was six rings, the dream teen, the ninety three finals, Re Hobbs game, but for me, Jordan's greatness resonated the most during boring nights in Jersey or Charlotte or Sacramento any time you took offence to something heckling fan Adobe Flash. Car and opponents near whatever was it immediately transform into the NBA John Wick ever? just wanted a win. Jordan wanted something else by the mid, these coaches were worn in their prayers, not the trash stock eyeball or provoke him in any way. Keep your head down shut up, don't give him any reason to get going we didn't, have let pass for those Monday in M J nights, just sport centre in those eleven p m. It was due God narrating, Andrea, twelve points that have happened in the third quarter. Jason WEBS gave her and let me tell him a man named jaded like that and we had next morning box course. When you glanced a page four of USA today,
bored Sexton saviours of Jesus M J. Forty nine- against the clippers- I wonder who pissed above every night, this stubborn lunatic search for a reason to demolish opponent, and they can find it. He made one up, crass and raised or if they stacked DEC, it's a thirty five year old legend during that final season, guess what it did a matter. Sixty two wins: twenty losses, MJ put every game, Jackson gather. Where's coaches and trainers for a special meeting before the ninety eight playoffs asking ever to write a message about what that final seas and meant to them a poem, a sentence, a song, whatever it had to be fifty words are fewer. Grown obliged they went around the room, ridden their messages, even Jordan, and when they finished Jackson, burn them in a coffee. Can the chaos that ascension and are burned away with it. They banded together freight weeks. They prevailed.
Last time for a ladder reasons, but mainly because they employed the greatest basketball player who ever lived. Jordan finished his balls career by winning three straight titles playing three hundred and four of the past. Three hundred for games and logging in and comprehensible eleven thousand seven hundred. Eighty six minutes opening the door for understandable he's just spent narrative. Jordan rose author SAM Smith later Road. That Jordan quote couldn't stand playing misguided, Pippen anymore, and that Jordan was called sick and tired and burned out just like a ninety three throwing Jordan's hatred, crass and that's why George and walked away after that six title or that's just the store. We always believed. Let this happen. Sometimes it narrative emerges and takes hold and the truth is much more
located the eagles they broke up because the band hated each other. That's easy! Georgian retired that second time still the best during the week, because he had nowhere else to go and that's complicated. It's also proposed former t may be J Armstrong told me was that Jordan walked away ninety three because he was completely spent both physically and mentally. In that they returned seventeen months later after noticing how dramatically expansion had diluted the League M J relays. It's still a few more titles, Armstrong believed without the schedule and unforgiving town poor draining him too badly and they did the second three p finnish Jordan once and for all, but ask Armstrong about M J second time and now in a scream, he was done body, was done around Jordan bleed. Mitigating circumstances played a much bigger role
Damaging lock out followed the ninety eight files, with owners intent on repairing a broken salary structure that empowered You're stars and ominous ways turned out pilot. I'll spree. Well, choking is coach to, unlike about green team, seagulls, the rise of polarizing, Iverson, hip, hop generation and slew of paid lottery, picks wasting their talent. Older fans were openly rebelling against encore behaviour in skyrocketing ticket prices. They just didn't like the league them much life after Jordan quickly became the scariest three words in basketball, The man bump tv ratings by twenty five to thirty percent, generating more attention, adoration and every other soup dark combined without Jordan, the Leagues business model was broken, David Stern, knew it the commission spent seven months plain chicken, with the polarization desperate to rebuild suddenly troubled league? He grew Doktor Richard Kimball Beard and played at that
have any of the situation. Speaking reporters and heavy turns, in the fresh scars and nineteen. Eighty four is devastating baseball, lock out. Only when the NBA stalemate stretch into the holidays. Did everyone start believing stern may know, didn't Abner that stretch, guess what Michael Jordan, never retired. You know I M J, never tired! He never wanted to retire. He just didn't have a basketball team over the months and years that pass We came to believe a story that, like a handful of other moments and Jordan's Greer big spot, ever really added up Jordan affair? really retired, a genuine thirteen nineteen. Ninety nine, only a few days after storm, broke the prayers and spawned a new collective bargaining agreements. And if it seems like I'm, J, waited until the last possible moment to leave. That's because he did he have beautifully telling aid under porters United Centre, that quote mental, am exhausted.
I don't feel like. I have a challenge physically, I feel great is the perfect time for me to walk away from the game. I'm a piece with that sort of Recap: the most homicidal competitive athlete we ve ever had quit basketball, not once but twice at the peak of his powers lad. Let me think about this. Every competitive m J I doubt describes as pathological need to conquer others, to wage against them constantly to search for victories begins. Ranging from Let's play horse after practice too. I bet my luggage comes out before yours does. The man was consumed utterly consumed by competition. You don't shut that off its own fucking facet at age, If I were expected with that, Jordan found Sir, today adding to the mystery
week. We learned the Jordan recently sliced his red index finger on a cigar cutter. Jordan claim that he could not play basketball for two months anyway, nearly play golf and the Bob Hope Classic with Charles Barkley the next weekend. I wonder if the gambled by November, when Skip Bayliss whatever happens, that guy Skip Bayliss wrote about M J, embarrassing Corey, Benjamin at her practice, dimension, Jordan's, nagging finger injury and the peace. A convenient a narrative emerged if Jordan precise their finger. Maybe to come back. No, when I M J closest friends told me that had the bulls projects back after the ninety eight finals. Jordan absolutely would instead that's how much I respect the Jackson, but once crap Ryan's door, nudge Jackson out that flip George stance, either way. Now he had to leave Scoggin loyalty to fill in. Also he's didn't want us
over there, anyone else, Jerry, Crass, underestimated the M J, Phil Connection, so egregiously such a damaging wage gap as future, an mba history. To that it's difficult to recall a bit your misread in the seven decade? History, the whig? It's completely indefensible! It's like this scene from fast five. Look there setting millions of dollars and fire. What are they doing? That was the balls enforcing for Jordan unfriendly offence to know it. Late. Ninety nineties franchise was sadly enough to realise, let's hoard our cap space Jordan decides to jump teams. Nobody thought that way. You know with that idea. Orlando, they clear the decks and a heroic effort Anti MAC Greenhill, an TIM Duncan after the ninety nine and Anti as in season they get to him The seventy ninety eight nobody thought that, in January. Ninety nine, the news
Maybe a favorite teams keeping their own free agents which correspond some of the dubious contracts ever class a ninety six hours. I could be Iverson around they, science, they point nine million MAX extensions, but unfortunately Did she for the regime in June? Is so baskets the nets baseboard? Eighty six, and keep Jays webs that the way chalk lamps back Stanley, murders, Schoeffer, Atlanta, Angolan State They locked up our Anderson and Jason Coffee for a combined eighty million, which was roughly twenty times too much, and the next day spent fifty six million to keep Charlie Word and Chris Debbie or say later be known. Charlie words, expire, contract and crystal is expiring contract. The latter mistakes back then, maybe a quarterly possessed real cap space, the kings. Smartly spent. There's, I'm flatidae batch in a six years supply a marble reds for just sixty two point: five billion Further teams landed, Marcie, free agents who flapped or eventually flapped Phoenix Tom Googly IDA
into make dies Charlotte their common Philly MAC, Geiger Sky Brent, bury the trade law, but they do those over again up and down on sterling slippers didn't spend any their caps base. As usual Other they probably spent a corresponding amount of non disclosure agreements anyway, are seven contender. For that goofy lack access in San Antonio Portland, New York, Indiana, Houston, Yoda, the Lakers only one at cap space, the Rockets we are radically landed Pippen in assigning trade for sixty seven point, two million nobody else could have afforded Jordan, who is coming off array, one year, salary of thirty three million messy play re truly seismic discount. So I ask you again: what was Michael's move create? An old guy team with Pippin Barkley in her came in Houston, team up with Duncan and Robinson and live in San Antonio Slum
four ring number seven in a tiny market like Portland, Guitar, Indiana, join forces with shack and cobia in play fur yanks. Magic, Johnson Steam, please Only New York loomed as illegitimate possibility if we remember the next traded a bunch of crap for spring. Only eight days after Jordan retired. Could they had on four May on would cross of soul Thou Jordan Chicago legacy for a poohpooh platter package in a couple of topics that was Jordan's. Only play unless the Lakers Hartfield Jackson, unfortunately, that the nap in for Their six months so did the league inadvertently checkmate its greatest Blair actually Yes, that's exactly what happened and that's how Michael Jordan ended up. Standing his own bizarre record most times that the goat retired on top, is The final them BP! Two m J skip the lock out season returned in January. Two thousand
any. He washed in as a part owner and present a basque vibrations in September. Two thousand one Jordan stand everyone. By deciding to play basketball for the wizards and Publishing thirty nine months have passed since the right Game, Anita stretched out included, demonic, Lewinsky scandal, the real slim shady so vs Mcguire bye, bye, bye, nukes. I did it again. The Bush Gore election, Kurt Warner's, rams the premier, the Sopranos, the first internet stock boom, the rock vs stone cold. You'd Bela checked, jumping to the Pats Chuck Nolan Morning, volleyball, who led the dogs out why to Kay why to J. Two more Josie albums and fuck. Three more Yankees titles. Jordan asked his return two weeks after nine eleven, later promising to donate his salary to families of the victims, the country was reeling. None of it fell right, those two wizard. In point out like Irene in concert or any minute
do the bandit already peaked, we didn't care just by the heads Michael many nights. I couldn't do it a couple minutes magically. He did. Jordan's creaky body just could no doubt he'd been away to lie. He missed his window so, Jordan have stolen that lack of title and ninety nine will never know, but isn't that? What, Ports is all about defending your time, until you lose it. Here's what make us in June of ninety seven right after one championship, number five. We are entitled to van what we have until we lose it then you look at it and you say: ok, let's change justice go to rebuilding at once, Guarantee move buildings going be two three four five. You cover memory. For forty two year, if only they list I were written in czech Austrian one. Second, first, let me talk about vandals sports, but
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Is he Pennsylvania, Indiana was rejected or Colorado. Hello, Colorado refund issue did not withdraw beside credit. That expires after fourteen days see sports books, dot fan, do a dot com for terms Ganley, prom car when in under gambler or in West region. A visit eighteen hundred gambit, I met in Indiana CALL when an Android nine with it in Colorado, call when in Algeria five hundred and twenty two four thousand seven hundred that's around speedway number, all right. We are going to bring and Chuck Klosterman right now. Here we go I shall close to him in his ear. I text then said: I really want to talk about survivor millions that season he loves, survivor, is much or more than anyone. I know, and he just texted back. I want to talk about Michael Jordan. Ok, first of all, I can imagine that island survivor more than anyone know I feel like you have you come
given the survivor World Year, Europe there here in the ear and the inner inner circle of people that love the the most buy it I mean we ve also grown up with it to spend almost twenty years for us. Guess I didn't forty seasons exceed thirty nine. So I guess that makes me a pretty big fan. Suddenly a loyal. Then I guess I will say this though I don't feel as though they show has evolved in a good way. Ok, why well ok for a long time for a long period, survivor kept getting better and better, because you know you would It moved more and more into the idea, the game strategy right and that can really
because an issue, I think that they thought survivor was just you know. This is reality programme, be explained that despite your men as firefighter friends back and be- or we had to talk about why the mom is it gets that became less and less and less monsieur, get better and better and better as it became, was popular, but people who stuck with it, I think continually liked it more. But now it's in this strange spot, where Is it only non stop strategy and you can? get a sense from watching the game was actually happening in the kind of insular world of this slide here I feel it is constantly getting information. It ends up being police meaningless when the vote actually happens. I also like really feel about the fire targets. I think that dumb, I didn't like people crash on a desert island.
I had to survive. I dont think they'd be like one. The first things we need to do is fabricated economy. But why would why would they did so? But he had no twenty is moving it back word actual life. I guess the factors all previous winners on the season in some ways is good, because like no one's gonna like jump the rice we're trying to create chaos for no reason, because people do that. Never win but, as a consequence is almost like a I don't know I want to show in, and I almost find my mind drifting for other things. Well, I'm watching it, which is weird because nothing else in the world said whom I saw. I think they made to mistakes. What is that, they're, just too many people on the show. Still they were headed There's the season of finance is a week from now
jury has. It seems like there's like forty people now watching they did that either the movements of the extent- now and when he got voted out. But then they, get rid of any of the people on extinction, island or have any sort of elimination thing or anything with them, and you know it's only an hour a week. I am, I find myself more fascinated by the people on the extinction. Because they went into a little bit in the two hour yesterday and you know that that one lady, we had been there really since the first day. I know every inch of this island like Boston, robs wager that now Natalie, because Natalie seemed like the best cure. On the show this narrow, yeah and she's like I've, I've explored every inch of the island. I know it like the back my hand that she's turned a Tom Hanks castaway, but then they these other people there and it's like. Why do you have twenty people on extinction our lie held? I know the logic on that. What's I think that the thinking was we don't want to get into a situation where there's
characters that people actually want to see who disappear maybe for the very reason that they're interested in that the other sort of happiness realisable. This person has a lot of charisma would have was it really taken, keep some alike I said I ever in the game yeah. Does it bother me as much? I just isn't situate I feel like where maybe they have played this concept to its logical conclusion. I mean it likes it or not, the people involved with the show any more two have a problem dealing with the adversity of the conditions. There almost I'd rather be here, then I would be at all or whether it that's like when the people were, but there was one season I think maybe you can see ensure season. Dree were
they came in a technical error and put them like in Africa in almost like a desert so banner, and it was like a real dangerous terrible place As of you that's kind of what I'm looking for, I don't want to see people discomfort of being able to purchase like twenty four hours of peanut butter. That doesn't really see, I guess you're viable, were you know I keep I just lights. One of the only shows me and my wife just always and watch together, and you know it is it will clearly watching a local baseball team words better, the more you watch it like it improves over time it. I wish I could be a consulted on the show. I think, there's a lot of things that they could do. That would make it more interesting deal, but there on this directory and they're not going up so
name like to the things you think they should tweak. I do think that they need you sort of back in the direction toward each other, more sort of for lack of a better term dangerous setting where it's, where were gypsy experience of being there is, is part of the the candy assault on the on the computer. What about Florida? What you said you wanted for dangerous Eddie. We should just have an Florida, it's very dangerous there right now. Apology other behold. You show up I'm at its market without Basques. I also like you I said earlier. This will seem like a contradiction, but just like some time, You overcompensate initially reality. Programming was too much based around the personalities of these people, but now I would
a little more understanding of what their interpersonal non game relationship it because it's not. It's really has become. Maybe this is why you like. It may really has become closer to conventional sports in that the only what really logically route for just the best players, I the only thing left to fight for why we like, I think a lot of people like someone like Boston Rob now as soon as a character because he's good at playing the game, but that only because the only slices where's now do we see is his game play like all the other aspects of his prisoner, if I recall were pretty, unlike like all he's a guy like, but he's good at this game. Now we ve taken away that first part in all its. It would be like it if we were if we are falling boxing.
We didn't get to know anything about rebutted, ran flights or anything about Thomas turned, his life the thing about Marvin anguish, lights. We just saw them box. Now I don't know why I just use the money goes back and that anyone all I'm saying is like it. It would be to watch, sort and have no relationship to the people were watching. That's right even survivors. Not that financing is not so fascinating that I don't care about the people involved. Well, I think they should have and I d been it up- asserts cause. I do think the show is bissing. The two guys hang around the camp fire who didn't realize that dad blank in common were the two people who didn't get along, who now there. Finally, some common ground or the flip side, people they started to know each other which you can set up over five ten minutes by say though I think weapon, there's tourism really interested in this is, and what is just the star power has been.
Some in everybody's one everybody's been successful and, more importantly, they know each other's boobs because they watched the previous seasons, I thought like last night, there was really actually moment when, wherein the travel tribal council and didn't Is doing her whole? Woe is me routine China, Throwed Nick off the sad that they're, not actually inside of I don't know. I use right side, just figure if I'm gonna to go to extinction now, and I once rice, my my stomach, the all thing and they cut to the jury into the jury. People like our she's she's vague and make it a move right now. This is bullshit. They know each other. So well, it's it's like watching basketball, where the two teams have played six games and apply upstairs they just gotta know each other's plays saw. I think that parts been really fun and then that the second piece is just you know at this point, all of them
are just so good at the game? It feels like a lot of ways of advanced it. You'd have he repaired to sports, where it's like in basketball, they just no better shots to take them. In survivor they cannot know the moves to make thou, which is like there's. A game began again, Beata game. No, no, that's not gonna complicate the voting because, typically at the end of survivor, there is always this fundamental question. Do I am going to vote for the winner should be the person who played the best or the person I liked about, and the tradition of survivor that since the very first season is to say you ve got not for the person plays the best you knock, but they all line before so they're. All good at the game is hardly can really hard for any these people to establish that they played you not like that that they somehow plate better paid.
Older move. They all have the high awareness of each other, like in their kind of its kind of culture there off prevent Like it's all here, when you hear these people on survivor, talk about survivor, its soul in rain, their psychology that, like every year old that like like that. Something like Russell. One of these characters is like this tower and will change like fear from the bad. What's the gates they date, I dont know how they're going to gauge, who should win this outside of, like almost their own standard. At that makes sense. I don't know I have stood straight. I finally complaints about this, but as I watched last night, and then I was watching it on the lake. They are recorded instead later and I got your checks. So I was almost watching a more critically and more seriously, and I guess I don't know I disappointments. Give it here's the thing, though, because they all know that
came so I'll write. You think the one thing that could happen and in the early part of the season with Boston Rob ever was really wary of like letting him run the game. Oh Harry goes he's gonna control. We can't let let could control it, we're we're out too smart to have somebody upon the strengths, and yet this happens every season as this goes along and they become suspicious of the string for, but then there's somebody who actually is pulling the strings and they can see it, but they don't see it like this shared. And Tony the last like four five episodes. Run in the game now and yet every time gotta wish we voted out. It's always nobody ever kind of looks at this looks at wait. A second tony hasn't an immediate challenge yet like let's just take this fuckin guy up because he's going to go to the final we know who is three people are, and I don't know whether it's fatigue, hunger, sleep deprivation, all the things that go in where your brain just stops working as well, but I'm always amazed that they can't see like a red around this point when there's seven left, nacelle
that's when you can put the game and that none of them could see that Tony was running in the game, so I saw I still feel the basic. In a survivor is still in the way that it did in two thousand, maybe maybe I'm just maybe enough of the other matter into just it's starting to all seen the same to me like I have a hard time time. Sometimes recalling what happened earlier in the game, if I can find it with a season, I don't know, maybe I'll tell you this- I kind of stopped watching it right. You said you seen thirty nine seasons, I've probably seen somewhere between twenty seven, thirty and sometimes the same. This of the show there just be years were found nodded and the first step asylums I am out, or they are piling up on my dvr, and you know I just never in a black and this year there so many people I liked in the Show- and I really like that they were-
old, old school and grab some people from the two thousands any major now has become something that I don't experience that might for television, which is a sure I don't really have to watch. While I'm watching I got an axe and I can have various conversations red while I'm watching it. The other shows I wash tend to be why a better turn, but a like by complicated or whatever. Want to actually see what's happening, yeah that that the review there would be a real, but you can you can sort of space out from long stretches of driver and there's no consequence. The challenges I dare to put the eye that now that something a watch or used to watching them, that's right. I'm like two out of every three seasons. I watch this now that we have those sport, some anything anyone's competing in anyway, I'm probably gonna watch. I gotta do the line at the cream based bother when he spends like hey. We have cream baseball MIKE. I call I
I don't think, there's any scenario where I would just watch. I barely wanna watch american baseball. At this point. I am definitely not watching korean baseball I'd rather watch the old games. I've been watching some of the old to thousands games that they ve been showing and the intensity of aid, just it just seemed like there's just more famous people in the game and things like that, but the old sporting events have sufficed for me, you know what this leads me. How I want to talk about this George thing, a real area. We tried what this all the time, but finding the way this is impacting like the sports discourse is pretty it fascinates me.
That, though, is that this documentary about something that happened all these years ago is prompting, I feel, like lots of pretty sort of complicated fundamental questions have hinted. It does doesnt seem to really be pushing this the that some decision now has to be made about whether we just concede everything is better now or that it is possible for things from the past to have them superior. I see there was the art. No. There was like a story in New York magazine or whatever it's like watching. All sporting events makes me think that that you know how great things are now operate. Athletes are. I don't feel like that sort of that the the She's mention all reaction money. If it really is coming to
Jordan, the Brown think it is it's amazing to me how it sees the infiltrate, everything your free service? Ok, so that guy a guy in Georgia that shot right that the exemption, in today's shoot him. The brown comes out and he knows This is terrible. How can this be were being hunted? And then there was a week from Jason Whitlocke with like He's doing this to establish himself is more political, the Jordan as well. Really in everything. That was our distant like in war tsar reaction, first of all that after the bronze treating this, but but even then it was like it didn't see
so far. I feel like I'm, not surprised. Someone had that reaction and I feel like I may have unlocked why this Jordan Leubronn thing is. Is it so fascinating to people. I think that both leubronn people and the georgian people feel like they're having the same arguments, but there actually making two different arguments. The people in Jordan's camp are saying he's the greatest basketball player of all time. The people on the bronze camp are thing he's the best
playing the game of basketball and it seemed like those things are the same. Didn't do you agree a difficult year because I was not the case for Jordan was more than just the stats in the rings, in a great who, as a fine basque, bows that the force of personality and the charisma, and all the stuff that I felt like when I was like a little kid growing up in you just grab data Ali Baba. Yeah, I'm older than you, but when It was on why wrote a sports when I started watching my router sports, whatever was bout him as a six year old. I was just like I love. This guy. How can this guide me in my life- and I do think Jordan had that, and I think also those who go into athletes of my lifetime that had that that, when they were in the room, there are the most important person the room to everybody, to the people who are competing against people on their team to the people watching
that's why I like, I feel, like our generation, never challenge the Ali thing like when tasting came up, but whose ever like FUCK Ali its Thyssen. Like we, we had like a reference to the US, I think there was a sense of that wine. Jason was nineteen. What you said had a chance, but nobody was ever like he's better than Ali going back. The thing I just said, though, do like. I know you place your as the best player of all time, but who is better at playing basket? Jordan never that gets tough because he had been at it, but I think a lot of people are here. I think people think the Englishman. If you re a black person- and you say that clearly, the bride is better at playing basketball, the Jordan. For all these reasons
is physically the advances he had his, maybe the things that he was able to take from Jordan. All of these things. You also have to be of the opinion that, twenty years from now when there is a totally new generation of guys play basketball, that the player from that period will be better than the brown, but you can't failed round the best ass ballplayer about time. And I believe that there will always be the kids wishes. Who says Jordan. The best basketball player of all time can also work from the position that this step, that doesn't matter what happens? Don't forward it's not up here, a measure of how skilled they are at the rudimentary elements of the game. It has all these secondary clubs.
What better, have a lot of people who now feel that, like that, labelling is superior to Jordan if they also concede that they're, not gonna, feel that way in twenty years More has to be. I think Jordan was better in in whatever questioner thrown at me. I do. I just think he was better. I think the only advantage the broad has retrieved discussed a million times as his career was longer nest. Amazon, sugar and that has a lot to do with advantage that is their ahead and that's it wants to see. You feel that Jordan was a bitter pastor them abroad. I just think he was better like we ve been doing this very widely ballgame. So would you shame that were brought among between and the brown visibility pass. I see I think Jordan.
Is it really underrated passer? I really do I'm saying which one is better between those two with that skill, I would say the promise was slightly better because it was more of his death, nay than it was for Jordan, whose a better rebounded between two pretty I mean the brain was two inches taller. But Jordan was a really good free powder. Amid not me, he would have things not like I'm trying to criticise joint, because this would well with the lion theorists watching this documentary series, I had moved into the I thought that I had sort of garden. This position where I was like another brown has been ensured that there just for all these various reasons. He is better watching this now and realizing that I was looking at this question incorrectly, but I was like that it's not
just a picture measure of who is better at these things, I feel like Lebron at most aspects of basketball is better than the Jordan and Jordan is still superior and them the explanation, it is fusing to me, but I think real there, but I think it I think the biggest piece of it is. You have to compare the person to who is in a league with them at the time, and the debt since between them and whoever the peers are the Jordan thing, over and over again the fact that he he just stood out in such a dramatic way where's the broad always had these different rivals and people that could go to tell with them and with Jordan I a member like we argued about our job. Versus Drexler wasn't way was a couple media members things I dad was I Jordan versus MAGIC Emmanuel extinguish, says a joint Bartley ASEAN Vp extinguished? Is that he just crushed everybody out through the air
the nineties. I also thought like it. Priscilla makes this point like he just said that the most unbelievable body, control playing and play out of anybody we ve ever seen like it is. You always did the perfect thing as politically and I've never seen another guy, the link I would compare to is almost jeer rice, which would another hour. I just feel like caresses best receive I've ever seen and add up, maybe, Maybe there are new or guys that technically wicked They do this better. They run their forty. A second faster, but I just know living through the Jew Stateless Guy was absolutely unbelievable. Always got open and could do. Everyone on the football field, so that's waded sides. I write the distance with appears matters, but what you just said, though, is this kind, is confusing thing. The fight.
Ok, you is, it is irrational. Do not believe that the current generation of any sport is not the highest level of its of the dead, the performance levels higher net sport than any other. I figured, I think, you're right, but I also have to look at it like cars right that give you took a Mercedes from two thousand twenty. Then you compared to an eighteen, eighty, six, nine, eleven Porsche and you're like which car drives better in the Porsche in the eighties, who's the single best, probably driving experience you could have unless you want to get like a ferrari or something? But if you compare that to a Mercedes now, the Mercedes was just drive better, but does that mean it's a better car than the Porsche in nineteen eighty six doing other things it was doing compared to all the other cars. That's where that's where my brain starts to bleed a little bit will be the confusing
He is maybe, when you're saying Individuals, the greatest basketball player or Jerry raised, is the greatest receiver and we, If caveats like well course, things have changed the example I am in the end, the theories were Jordan, places last game at mass of workers and where's those original shoes. And they heard his feet yet his feet or covered a blood by the end of the game like that will never happen. But not nobody do that. Nobody knows where an inferior product on their shoes for a game, I do I just. I don't believe that would have enough, but there is still something that the guys would do in this field. With an interesting thing to him, to do in ninety nine, seventeen. Ninety two rivers, which did it up in the same way That may be twenty years before that a guy. Might as you like, more information like smoke cigarettes for something at,
after I doubt would never happen in the later tat. The detriment would be guy. I do something changed about the way these things are done that these here, these qualities that these things are people do just never be done again, but it's almost like is always saying greatness, always saying like what we want from the person the Jordan did. The best is the best version. Of what sort of we ideologically walked from a basketball player, even if there are guys in the present who might be any sort of measurable quality, be better. I do think it matters. You have so many more ways to try to reach your ceiling for whoever you are thought. Now that can't be understated like the d
just even what's happened in the last ten years. I guess I remember writing about this talk about this later in the two. Thousands, but then think about other thing. That is just changed in the last eight nine years. You know these devices, you have that, like whoop, where you can just where on your wrist and track every single moment of your day, if you're sleeping at the right time You know what you're eating you all these different people that can just study your body and realized, if something's wrong, like that, the great examples Steph Curry, whose career just does not happen, twenty years earlier. He has ankle problems his whole career and he's like he's like a grant health kind of got a bummer test where they have a Steph. Curry would have been a fun and be a too bad about his ankles. So we just got to move on
put him in this decade and now he's at top thirty our time player and that's the part I think where it gets really tough to compare players. Do you feel like the gaps between various generations? getting smaller, relied forget. What I mean by this is like. Ok, a man a basketball player in the thirties compared to a basketball player in the fifties, and then things in the fifties, the Seventys, the seventy two, the nineties. The reason of this period now do you feel like the chair. Changes in those cannibals generational sweep surrender is getting more or less accentuated. I think I would say seventies through the end of the two. Thousands was pretty easy to compare prayers. I think this decade, better higher concentration,
The shooting and the percentages in the way the game is played, has change absolutely everything and, by the way, for palm baseball same thing right Maggie, you watch. I was watching the nineteen. Seventy eight Yankees red Sox, one game, of game and Jim. I said forty six former Zaire, but was not a big guy like we have now thought it's all like skinny guys their muscles. You axiom a seventies eighties same thing. The guys are all kind of lanky. You know and weary, and just had certain types of bodies there weren't, like the big Coreham alone, TAT bodies back then football. How bigger the line me now? appeared to what we saw you know even through, I would say the MID laid eightys. We didn't have three hundred sixty pounds lineman back then do you like the gap is getting bear. I do, I think, physically, it's different. I can't I sort of feel like the best basketball players.
It's going to be changed this an average basketball player from the settlements would have dominated the fifties. I don't know if an average basketball player from the nations would have done The second is, I don't think they would have, they would have the gap and getting small, so the better, we'll player in the world in eighteen. Seventy seven is Jabbar an air player in nineteen. Seventy is give me like a lie so gay but I can imagine you take while Rollins and you put him back in the fifties and the a hall of Fame player So you go to the names. Jordan is the best player, an average player is who is a great like who, what the ability of an average night display average star,
Average nineties player the best guy, I must say, what's a Brian Russell, ok trainers. What's brain rattled rear view, ass. I don't think it's out much different. I'm making progress corresponding to points again. Maybe if you actually were actually transporting them out of it. This is not like that. We have to imagine Brian rustled grew up and sang of me if we didn't like the time the sheep, ok about it by here's, the wedding, forgetting you ve, less teams in the seventies, and you have the ABA for a while in the NBA and the NBA's, just like a less athletically Ba Ba is where a lot of the younger guys there it's black or it's just more. It's got Dr Dot Jay and Marvin Barnes. All those guys The leagues merge, still only have like twenty one teams. You have a bunch of awesome athletes at that point, and each team has four five and the guys
I just get squeezed out of the week or like the Don Nelson types, cuz they can't guard half the printer guys believe. I think I think there were less awesome guys, but they still at awesome guys. And they have good athletes. What, with the height and way of Russell in wines playing in making any six, who is probably like, six, seven, two hundred something that fleet bigger than Elgin Tailor. It seems to me like he would be approved by while we never would consider guy like him, physically dominant, We were giving Russell top of TB like well, it was a smart defenders. He was he, wouldn't you say selfish player. All these things, I think, if you put him in the seventies, physically down you get so loudly. Young air, I I disagree. I think the seventies rather I've sixties are different,
it really shifts in a really shifts in the seventies, even someday like Bobby Jones. The cow is an amazing athlete. Shell, but like what we see is that very Jordan didn't start Wait. Until nineteen aiding I write so some Michael Jordan, who is always up, naturally strong and like a fire strongly. He wasn't. Reform of that kind is natural strength throughout Europe, burning these guys never lifted wait. I think anybody who would have done wait, training to high school in college and within and became a pro athletes wouldn't went back to the city, these air there would have been like hurry. Lucas will have been afraid of it, but I didn't Finally, I thought, but these gaps our current. Looking at this, I guess more differently. The right! I just do European agree with this. I feel like every generation.
Is getting a little smaller in terms of how different the other different from me from one end to the next. I do wonder if there's, if its ever gonna get so small, that it will just be the same was so that's gonna be, but that can be were where the shooting of cops cause. I think the biggest differences last ten years is how good everyone has issued. Shooting now any like house for sale, and I we broke down night- came to ninety ninety seven balls bullets And we're like what is Juwan Howard? Is he even in the in the league playing more than fifteen minutes a game now he's this six ten forward, who he shoots? Eighteen footers, he doesn't post that because no three point range not really that good at protecting the rim. Where would you play it in the meanwhile. They had Tracy Marian their team is a three point shooter and you walk. Second,
Joanne Howard's like one of the highest papers? The weak and the game- and it's like he would play fifteen minutes ago Tracy bury we get twenty of his minutes, because we know now that it doesn't make sense to have him Medea wages. It fascinating deal. I mean You must remember this from when you play basketball is like a junior high created a high school kid if the centre on your team was, having a lot of outside shots in practice. It was upsetting you would be reprimand yeah, but don't do it so wait for someone like you want howard- How long was it before any cobalt? Ever even Saddam would have when he said that, you need to work on a shot that's longer than a free trial. We want you to take the lead. It happens all the time, and I have been real quick for easy, like good the job here again, what I guess I didn't think.
That in my lifetime, wonderful things in basketball that would so radically change just how well they shoot? I thought that kind of b, the fake it seemed like TAT, did seem from the seven names in the night. You think about the reason why the work but which is because if you go back and you watch if these sixty seventy is one of the things that stands out tat. I really love is how many different styles of shooting there are, and you have guys have one Anders gas Jamal Work shoot from the side. Gosh atop their head guys with a hitch guys, you jump, stop and shoot, and that's ban be now over the last twenty years by just as a system whereby the timing ten. You know to shoot and if you're, talented, you're on some sort of team and they teach you how to shoot a certain way, everybody sheets
same Nay way. Now, even with the little exceptions like Durrant who release is it you know top of his head and it's one of the reasons he saw unstoppable, but they just the quick anus is gone and anybody that's coming the lake now they're mechanic searches can be so much better. There's gonna shoot better, but athletic way other than the equipment and stuff. Like I refuse to be, David Thompson couldn't like coming through the league right now and athletic wages be as incredible as it was in the midst of it. Is you know, well. It does seem a bit in terms of how high a guy can jump that hasn't changed or body control. You know that I think we have a lot of it if it's them, I think Georgetown Ewing could come into the world
right now and and be an absolute problem. You know, I think the difference is the efficiency in the shooting and guys guys having a better intellectual understanding of what they're good at not good at it, and I was like that we had on the flying coach, podcast, Steve and PETE Carroll had Dave Roberts on this week. We just put it up and they were talking about. Analytics and how they filtered and appear development, and how you're, using analytics now to try to figure out who you should take not just like looking at them That's but other stuff like their backgrounds in an whether like it were, they a pitcher in high school that might mean there better shooter and all these variables that you know I I I just think things are some smarter and general? Then you get somebody and your team.
By I Howard. I now need to ninety seven elected you on those eighteen voters sack man either postal pursue three like you, you shoot forty seven percent, just a general from from that spot that you love your like forty, two percent, which means as fifty percent AIDS for that scoring you just gotta change at are not playing so then he that summer he shoots threes all summer and it's like a brick Lopez situation. You everything, brick Lopez, would shoot threes in your, and never and also it is. It is odd. How maybe possible it now seems to become a pretty good three point shooter, but it's not possibly regarding what you want our maybe taken one year old Jake. You know I think anybody who's gonna who's gonna just work at something. This is why I believe, unlike our J Bear, it is a large american. She threes well,
You'll figure it out the guy works hard. If you give him three years, I think work the where I get suspicious as I submitted Alonzo or Marco faults, where it just seems like their form, can't be also. You know you know the you better, though it's like. I now assume that that skill he has tried to learn already that some that in high school you were in the past, it always impossible, like a guy, could never attempted to Jim Jim Master Somethin, I mean that's like going back to the Jordan thing it was like he did not want to put a stop for a long time. Feel Jackson had to convince if you do this, you will be, it actually place your strength more than spacing guys eating away basket, and then he became a best posed a player.
A period that the debt had not occurred to him tat. He would be they did. It occurred to him that he thought against that, while guard guards didn't do that added. That's part of a genius also guard, like Guinea Johnson used to do that. There was a kind of a history of guys who, like a leg of two guards who would basically gray, had a guard down the block and scorn, and that word Ricky Pierce used to do a little bit. Yeah they're guys, but I mean just turned it to Jordan's big gimmick. The game that we did for Priscilla's party has fifty five points: she's like twenty two, four hundred and thirty five, and only makes one slash three and it's all jump shots, one off moves post double facts and he's he's just kind of slowly mastered it and it's actually creepy watching it, because that's the version of a vampire that could be really matter
this game after in a lot of the movie as like that the Quicken the uptake and then looting are like those little drop step than the fall away. He basically dismay that seven admitted admitted it in his proud, proud of it, and I think that J the genius of putting that together. That's why, when I hear leg or you didn't you threes back, there's a guy, he would he would have, Get it out. One summer had had a shoot, eight threes, z game. It would happened you something else. I want to ask your opinion yeah so many times. I know how many times you probably said this were written this in your life You can't miss the period where genes and visual players really hate each other right tat, you love it. I think I d ever ran ok, so what if the bulls would have walked off the floor against the distance without
shaking hands. Do you think the way that we have decided that almost everything Jordan does is great Judith competitive intensity? That would not be seen as this terrible misstep. It would be seen as proof that Jordan cared so much. He couldn't even shake their heads or you think the same thing would have happened where it suddenly in this we're, Then sleigh situation, it's like they weren't sportsmen you would have taken he for I it's really hard to overstate how much everybody hated the persistence, but you think about when pairs punched outline beer, people psyched fairly tat, was awesome, so guided did that will give it in the even I went to that can be viewed the stands. People were like awesome, someone finally did it.
People is hated that team in there and they were intentionally dirty allowed a different ways. So when they walked the court it. It was the exclamation point that I think so. It had to be now the gig thirty years of heat. For that, if, after if when Samson catches, the ball may, if they turn around, eliminates the layers and eighty six, Lakers walked off the floor. There would not have been a drop in the same way. It was its task- is. I was a series winner. I'm tryin to like a fire was another example. The Lakers is, and I don't know it was the fact that they were home and they did it deliberately before the game ended. There is no reason to do it other than be decks, and they knew it. They knew it as they were doing it they're. Just like fact these guys were were not even give them the satisfaction of a post game. Handshake and ass.
He put it like that and they also. Let's be honest, I don't like as air I say, has taken a lot of shit over the years. A lot deservedly, but like the dream, came stuff, it wasn't it that Jordan than like him, he had issues as they say. In the dark with half the people on the team, at some point he had crossed came out and shed light hey. I also stated that it was not that many guys, because you are the main sources of come to me and said like does not true he applied, it was like nine and twelve. It was in that, but it was. It was Scotty Miko. He had a whole with bird, I doubt bird would have ever cared enough to said. Yes, it. The other bird, has been pretty complimentary, Josie origin, but he had the thing with magic too in the end that there has been very reports on, a true that was our untrue, but they had a real falling out in the two guys surrender team that magic in Michael
Regular, let a man I think, we're in them all the matters that Jordan and MAGIC, I think both of them. I think it only matters that George yeah cause they Data, Jordan, a play, No way MAGIC Johnson was not going to plan. If it had been MAGIC Johnson boiler knows, but he was gonna do what is needed, then, because what it had been for all these reasons, for the fact that you know that a joint didn't need it, and I think that the Euro zone. I think every guy in the team could have hated Isaiah there and I always go deeper than they really needed by to be on the team, and they were really genuinely concerned. He wasn't good want to be on. The team was the other piece cuz they. You know he was talking about How tired he was in all! I stop right there. In the moment, the thing that was indefensible was stacked and making it over as air, because, as I was just a better, where and had had way more success, and you now
supposed to be the coronation of. He was the fourth best guy that whole generation you know any shit any should have been there, but at the same time I get it I think it makes sense that you make it and by the way ever leaves this part out. His fucking coach was the olympic coach and its culture. Ok with him that being on either like that's how deep the issues where Chuck Daily was like our ban, forget it. I won't five form. What also you know, he was best player on the nineteen eighty olympic team. I didn't get to go yet. There was get up like you really like, like was kind of old odium. The weird works that a word anybody, but it is on it it is it a. I think daily was like well. What can I do? I mean what they
daily, wanted to put do Marzano because they really needed a defensive guard and that they didn't really anybody macho yeah to get by without was right there, one quarter quite weak point. Was you had magic and stacked and as you guys, but dad's Emma Jane Ben could have done whatever but yeah. I think it's unfortunately there they are, but I also feel like you know how to make your own bed. Sometimes you- you're, the only person in the world while say this doing up. You like, I felt the same way, but you know she never like stuff about the ninety to drink. Tea said always bump me out. I remember how bad buried what's in it at that point, is tough pig ivy league? Couldn't he couldn't fuckin run like you, member? They put him at the
the gold medal game, Israel. I hate thinking about that, I'm glad it is on the team. Obviously I almost wish that he would have just like almost never participate would almost be seen like as a code, I think he knew he knew he was gonna retire. He knew was gonna play. There but she wanted to be part of it. I think it is important that is on the team, but yeah it's it was tat cause you had so many those guys at their all time, peak of their powers. You know an end and he was the opposite. He was, I barely barely hang it on and then both yet major back surgery so yeah? I agree the eye it bugs me out to see him and you can see that it looks like he's fat but its cause. He has his job back Yet what is job like classic praxis? You know we're even lose time. You see out there like the tenth as player on the floor and making a can except ain't that a company like talking about it now
things take issue like this great thing, but I I ate thinking about that. I think what the most underrated part of the dream team was that magic goes away for a year and comes back It's like his team and M J team and he still as good as it was when he laughed, and then I M Think goes away fur eighteen nineteen months and comes back in that ninety five seas, its course. Thirty one, a game in the play off site for people to just disappear at something there like where it's almost imperceptible. If you lose three percent that's enough to knock you from, like I'm the best pouring the league or the second best born laid to him that the twentieth best where and for those guys to keep whatever they are empty
keep and still be able to hang at the same level I was thought was amazing, like I'm really excited to see what happens with the rent when, when the NBA comes back, when the rain comes back, even if he loses three percent, that's going to be such a huge three percent for him, because he was one of the week. So does he dropped the twenty? I don't know here is my prediction on that yet know why I'm making it a man by the doctor, obviously, but I feel the ranch is going to be the first guy his back from that injury, essentially unchanged. It's very pass on sheet. You ve seen this that you know that you used to be it over to like you can come back Domini came back and became a different guy would ever thought. Yes, I think that, because this age, because Edison down all these things, I think He'S- should be the first guy going to come back kind of change. Are you before we
Are you getting scared about? What would the fall would look like with no college football Cosette I'd? I dont see a road map for college football coming back in it I mean look, there's so many terrible, awful weird things about two thousand twenty. So far, one of them the things that you spend the sport schedule getting knocked out. Football still probably the most basic essential american thing, we have high school college pro such a big part of August and September, and I don't see how college football comes back on and see how campuses potentially open unless they shut this thing down over the next six weeks, which seems unrealistic. The buyers will you now. I would like to answer your question. I thing yes, but I would be lying now, all I'm thinking about is irresistible, in the times today but
the building of this, like a kid coded, be seen besides the risk that, when you certainly chain, The idea that this is something you gotta worry about, your kids school. At the opening and Joe. What follows twenty, twenty one, twenty two to me: way like TAT but, like I said this lesson that you said your black candid border. Whatever it's like, I don't feel bored. I feel tired. All I get up in the morning and truly right as much as they can to living. Then I'm with my kids for the rest of the day and night, physically and emotionally exhaust me- I don't know I haven't been me: should care about sports
in that way. Now John, and I am not complaining that there are people limits, much worse than me. I could get worse renege I mean I don't want to come all again saying, like all my life is terrible. Now I realize people have worse than me, this is better as an adult. The heart is pure you, my life, now here. I M sitting in place dogma when a project I wanna, keep saying like. I understand that it could be so much worsening. You know it's like somebody and all these things like the idea of sports being gone. It just seemed like everything has gone, seems like the world is gone and sport
just one of the many things that I used to look forward to and now it seemed like that part of being a person's got over or postponed for the time being, yeah, I'm with you, it is weird. It's weird. I think I, on the one hand, I really want sports to come back, as I do feel like it's gonna, be a welcome distraction to a lot of stuff, but on the other hand, I think a lot of people are like You were it's like it's back, I don't care, I'm I've kind of speech spent every chromosomes in my body. Course. I would watch it was weird for the first couple weeks this every so often I would be just waiting around for something and I would open it, Up on my phone from my fancy basketball game. What do I do? like what about would like elegant like. Why am I just they shouldn't?
There are just kind of ingrained by that's weird question. Could somebody asked this yesterday and I realise that when answer that outside that's carnage. Saying that that's my answer: where do you go to your information on what's happening dated day with the with the with the virus, is my answer, surprised me well, ok, this is, I would say that this endemic with the possible exception of arab spring has been the first time where I feel like Twitter has been a net positive for society. What I would say in every other period, there are good things like about social media and their bad things
and you know the bad things out with good things. I think maybe the twitter particular way. I think I think during this period is like you know, When there really is only one story in the world is being experienced by all people in the same present tense moments, it has been a good wage kick it. I'd like this is the real written off you talk about people's able like privilege, is really does show privilege to make. This is the first time in my life, when the news actually affected I've never really had a try when national news impact at me this way on nine eleven, that eleven Euro New York
the time are you. I wasn't on catching and then see that she liked them. I probably wouldn't said the exact same thing ends in two thousand ones. I said for the first time you know national events are really. You know impacting me it up in a kind of an inner there's no way. This is really the first time real that has again and So you know I I read that the times I read the Washington and I know that everything that happens there is significant in the media about this virus, I'm going to hear like someone's going to send it to me or some other source is going to connect me to it. I mean I feel, like I read the whole internet everyday
I am you did a lot of people on Twitter because I don't like the hysterical nests of thanks. I really I'm really bear bone right now near times last imposed. The Atlantic, I think, has been surprisingly good to make his. I was felt they were you no definite liberal, lotta ways than I thought that would maybe color the covered said they're doing, and I think they don't really get stuff. They dare Thompsons than great stuff. I think I learned stuff from some of their pieces and in that, and I think the dailies done a great job too. With just kind of simply explaining hey. This is happening. What it means, but for them, sport I am trying to avoid a lot of the news where I feel like some Please give me the news, but there's some agenda behind it. I don't want any political agendas anymore. I just like how do we win?
Here anymore, what this says about laughed right. I did too that's funny election. I know that's that's coming just I just want to know how can we win? How are we going to solve this? What are we learning for Other countries like what is the end game for this? That's what I care about the fact that it has taken on this kind of political framework. They had the means, obviously detrimental because now here and there was the sense that Trump wine to open the country up, you know, he was very straightforward about that. The people who hate Trump almost thing to view this is like Well, we need stay in and some of the virus will be the virus. That way it will be by not going out fact. The matter is. We're- probably all going to get this at some point, we're doing that to basically keep the hospitals. Frere laugh. You know
but I dont is this area. I use people bring forward ideas a geologist. Every idea things bad like what are the good ideas. There are no good right like the best ideas, have such a profound downside that went to look at the best idea. In that context, I just I don't I don't know you, you re, everything and sometimes it will be like all the seed is little glimmer of hope. You'll see certain curves, changing or you'll hear about what the Oxford thank you to all the people in Oxford might have the second
or there is a story about some fuckin Lars something this Lama. They these you fight you and then he just keep reading now need to realize seven more things that are or worse like I did. It's the same family but like enough like ok, so Solo Oregon opens the football, in this year in theory against North Dakota State and not the gods day. Coming was gonna, get you Jane a movie star, I don't know how they got to this game but by and we was going to come out of your go to this game or whatever you know, and I was looking forward to it for a lot of reasons and now the whole idea of it. It just seems like this is bad. This is a bad thing like every part of the year. The idea being to stay with lots of people is bad. The eye
here that a large chunk of society sort of seas. Sport is so essential that is worth a cannibal and it makes feel weird about sports away like it seems odd that you're proves that soon money is now build into Canada that did that the com, but the sports industrial, complex or whatever that. It's almost like true meaningful to feel like we have other things to worry about: still worried about this, like, like you, think
I only. I know you can't given every Saturday night. Do you think the Anna felt? Well, if it happens, it will be because of all the money at stake for the owners and networks and to the players to a lesser degree, and that's why I talked about this on Sunday my wife, ass me like what's the point of sports coming back There, then to save the money from the people, and I was explaining, like Lagarde, you know, there's some other. There's some other ancillary things. You know like reseller talked about the sports media. People get, you know, get to cover stuff and work, and things like that, but ultimately its it's agreed move to try to keep it going because there's too much money at stake and had seized the weight as its it, let's be frank about it? That's the number and reason it's because of the money. That's why it's coming back. I wouldn't even said. Never one reason it faded sole reason. Was or to the fact that we need the money. You could say distraction national psyche try to make. It seem like less for Roma bike. Here's by questioning
and I am admittedly reading way too many stories about the stuff there. Story in the harbour report. About how people think that the viruses that Sundays late January, beginning of February I was at Sunday it's it's really really really clear that some sort of terror. Or something was there. That was probably the virus. I know somebody Who is that Sundance who sicker than they ever were in their life and was sick for like eight days who doesn't normally get sick? Who I was reading the symptoms of what it was? It was like. Oh shit, I had it back, then. Is it possible? This is been around big January in all these forms, and some people just didn't get it well. I think the hope for a while- and now I feel like it was misguided- is that when the sphere started me in a lot of other people were like. I think I have already had this.
I think I might have had these minor symptoms in February or whatever and up, and you know that I'm Askin Julie like asymptomatic outside these minor things, and and Ass, most people have had maybe they're real, maybe it's gone through the country anywhere, but now they're, starting to look less and less possible. Whenever I see Why can a widespread Casper antibodies valid like seven percent? For seven point, five percent of people seeking like, if it doesn't seem, is widespread. As I kind of ammunition he might have been the case, but it was deaf way here in a much bigger way than I think we realize. I made that clear, at least in the bigger cities, at least in Ella Sampson oh near city, babies, Gaga three, three basketball players, get it from two teams playing and take that point as well.
Was contagious thing in the world in here. But, oh, I don't know for sure apocryphal, but I said something about which there was a get a plane with with seventy people and one person had Cobain in forty. Five people died from their suit. Him enough is like the most can aegis thing in the world and yet at the same time, How does tromp now, having spent not haven't, had all these people who are constantly in the world not experiencing it? Obviously, Healthcare workers are getting this, but not all of them. Some of them would be all right, yet it so dangerous that, like I can't take my kids to a public playground even though it rains here every day, because it could still be existing on the metal I am, do everything then told to do or do not breaking any these rules. Well it and then you are also. It doesn't make any sense to me. It's like the contradictory information about how contagious it sometimes seems,
And how everyone should have it. If that is the case, if it is really is that viable, the idea that such a huge percentage of people our asymptomatic but yeah, can pass, IRAN will be an egg. It also killed people. I mean I'm friend of these two doctors. When things were goes over when we're talking about over jackson- and they were both like the fact that so many people have no symptoms and kills a lot of people death, it's an almost uncontainable, Prob LY, you can. It like. It is one thing if other diseases real deadly, as everyone is aware of that another where it can seem like huge swathes of the battles, have no reaction and they could still kill somebody. It's just so weird I mean well that's why they ve been saying it's like it's almost like a virus. You would create the lab to fuck with society them. The most possible
Ok and say: oh they don't smoke, do not smoke like actually, maybe people smoke are less susceptible to die. I guessed it goes How can it seems like ninety percent of the information and being reversed or debunked in other, though of you get it once you back and get it again and now it's like well, you might get it again since it what what? What is it is it with its pretty brig, pretty big change that that's why I say this with the first: I'm were. Twitter has certainly been somewhat positive in that the stories are changing all the time any. So the idea that like if we waited a nest, got red one source at the end of the day, the next they would be different anyway, my as will ever change every ten minutes, but the thing I can get a sense for it finally, the mood of the populace yet now
How how bleak is the perception are people, joking about like every so often you can see a few days ago by an there, won't be any sort of like, like you know, like asteroid, type, storing or see people and I'm making jokes about again and then it will shift at an end. You know cause it's, but those early, the pit you're, following now, I'm in your ear problem, not a bit of a twitter above all, right you're not cause there? If you are following a bunch of people down south, they would just be mad that things are an open yet well, I'm following people in news, basically yeah and media people are not yet. I well people, I dont, know necessarily budgets like this. Can information based up you know cassettes how long do you think. Majority of Americans, will be willing to be lockdown. I think were about to hit that hit the point where it's gonna shift
Well, ok, so I think we have four weeks left before a lot of people are just going to be like fuck. This, so is gonna end up being that this whole period was- sensual you could you could argue that, even if, if everything, was going to happen anyway still happens. At least we had these three or four months for hospitals to kind of build up their infrastructure a little better to get. You know that dude leave no This is going to be the center of everything they do for a year or two or whatever we we we fucked it up, though everything should have been shut down for four weeks. Everything four weeks keep it contained, there's no to spread the people. Have it dont, give it anybody else, and then you know, like the stats in South Korea are pretty amazing. They they basically got rid of the virus, but they also did a whole bunch of things that I don't think as a country would ever be prepared to do. I needed,
packing and stuff yeah I mean, but the bottom line is they got rid of it, and if we had even put half of that stuff in place, we probably would be in a lot better place. We are now we didn't get rid of it, and now our opening stuff up again- and there can be a second wave- will be more prepared to handle it from a hospital standpoint, but it still get it going to come back for anybody use. I know that I think we've seen the worst of it like that's insane, there's no way, we've seen the worst of it. Yet it's going to come back and people people are. I think it's taught us that people have a fundamental need to be around. Other people to be outside to not be told what to do, which we knew anyway, but it's not sustainable to just ask everybody to do the right thing. There's some people- I don't believe you know daddy beyond on the red, a conspiracy board. It's fine! It's like bonkers. With their light, they really genuinely believe alot of people on their that this is our hopes,
said the economy and that this is in his bad. The hospitals are nearly as bad shape as they wear like there are people out there that believe that. So I don't know. I just think we're having protest, thou and you seem like always take the plan- demagogues, death, yeah, yeah, but this should happen after nine. Eleven people think that eleven was, you know orchestrated. What do you think is gonna? Be the ultimate outcome: sweating, going to have. I think we're going to have it. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we'll end up having a second wave and it's going to really scare people and we're to be back to square one. And that's how this by screw, obey like where we were in the second week of March, will be more prepared for it than we were in the second week of March, where we were prepared at all, but I think, if there's a second wave, its we're back to square one, I think the Good NEWS
is from an like: a New York City, subway standpoint and from eighteen thousand people at the staple centre things like that. Where could just so easily get way worse, like that's, that's not going to happen, but there's going to be a second wave, because the right people are still dying from this thing. Everyday, like it's calm down the numbers in New York of gone down. The numbers around the country have gone up to you. Do you ever leader has yet to walk to to get exercised by wafers. You know dune grocer shop, everyone through our things. I tat we, my mom came over on Saturday she'd, been kind of isolated, four six seven weeks and was like what is this. Is this just kick honors in, I beg you seen people take little babies
Epps toward at least being around people that they can trust each other people that I think are just out and about what it is confusing thing, because it's like so ok, for example, like we don T yet little kids, you don't want to see the grandparents right because they could be vectors yeah. But how long do we look at? What point is clear that the kids don't have it? Grandparents don't have it when we have tests I would like it if you are keeping our entire family isolate how at what point can you be?
comfortable knowing their like well either. We I withdrew us or we don't have it you'd, see eye to eye on because different dates when, like the country opens up and out people like what will be the difference between two weeks ago were two days ago, as opposed to the day when you finally make the decision. I don't I don't know. Why then did the most underreported thing, as has just been, if you're over? Seventy, just a fear, your and every day that you know that that things come for you if you get it and how you avoid that you're. Just the virus is put on earth to take you out. If you get it here, seventy it up and it's a real interesting deal like you know my mom Shelly. Eighty five, you know she's she's. I talked to after she sort alike. I'm already. Eighty five
I don't know how much longer like it like. You have a laundry your expectation of life itself, like you wanted in truth, the last year's on earth in your house. Your half: do you can't be like you can't you like? I'm I dont adjusted it it's what you know it I the egg is the fundamental question. He'll keep talking about opening up the country for the economy is always about the economy, but at some point, is there going to be a question over what is the value of if your life is essentially a kind of self enforced house arrest, No, no! Otherwise it is that our people are these to be people who will be like well. I feel like my mother, my mama's in that spot, when which came over my daughter's birthday on Saturday.
And she was really like- it took like two hours to jogger ashes, deftly depressed she's like that the by myself. I dont get to see my family. I dont get to go to data the fourth, that she had that she loved all them out the window like going to the jam taken French Glasgow, These wide tasting thing she went there is like those are all gone suggest by herself in her place every day watching them. Flaxen british shows and just gone backers. You can do that for x, seven weeks, but I think what you know like castaway witchery, we just did other reliable suits fresh whereby he says talking to the volleyball about what a year and a half in and it's like wow. That seems realistic, he's probably going we'll start crazy, like there's a lot of people out there, who are probably and they its could save a boy, might start talking to a volleyball stage of this a couple months away. I don't even think it's the no lack of human contact.
As much as dislike the complete removal of agency like I have no problem staying, Leave my house lot as it is, but if you will here it is not a choice. I make the odd thing the only this idea that, like us, just how how the world is now. I know it is crazy itself in about ten years or twelve here's the always gonna be the most popular, I say, to write in the atlantic or slate or any of these places are the New York, as they still exist. People who have kids, who are making twenty twenty one moving onto their old life, either own sort of life and people saying I am. I miss the period of the pandemic when I was with my kids every day and they were still the age limit
The colombian smother with me- and I know you Know- was weird further reason. I know this is the case I would be by one of people. I know it. Like I'm real close to my kids now, like I always close to my kids, but this is different. This is like our lives are intertwined UK and in twelve years when my son moved out- and you know only calls me when I please call me back. They called him her, whatever I'm gonna remember this period then I remember how how intense it was emotionally to be close to my family. Even though now in the present tense, I just got done saying others did the worse period of my adult life why memories totally fuckin worthless, it's like, as with almost the ice value. Your memories is there all box there, just the injection of emotion into the kind of visual audio
renders them in your mind and then you can decide like. Oh, I guess that was great. I guess that was wonderful. I guess it was awful it it's like an it's. It's never true yeah, it's never true or AEGIS laid out was the nuclear family is definite closer. I think there's no question, but then it's come at the expense of all the other relationships you have it. If you buy yourself about a family, that's even worse! I really you know if you're stuck apartment or your Hauser Condo or with the rebate all day. In that same. Then you don't have you know what have like. I am with you. I've spent more with my daughter, the last three months. I was really said my daughter acts. It felt like were probably closer now in the air sure there will be a small power, we look back and you go oh. Why didn't we always How much time together like is that the whole point of having a family anyway,
not doing it. Gives it never be happier than they loved yeah like my daughter, is in a good mood, everyday life You like that was not the case when she had like she yelps. It was what he had a good approach she hated you always want me to pick her up earlier. Whatever so they're real happy. I think their memory of this will, like I, was kind of a good time you know, and for them it will actually be accurate. I think when a young person remit their life their day. Have it it's like I'd like more accurate depiction, but when you're in adult UK, include all these other sort of ideas about what happiness is supposed to be like. Unlike what is suppose you know, Yeah I'll all these things. You know it's like Naomi
like no one ever laid on your death bed like oh. I wish I had worked more like what are you supposed to think about that actual? I'm gonna think that they are getting a ten percent harder. I wait you described, though, maybe think of when I was kid in Boston, we had the blizzard and it came out of nowhere, and it was just three weeks where we got for feed us now. Nobody is prepared for it completely derailed everything, and when I look back those like where the fondest members of my entire shouted the NAFTA, School made weird snow shit every day in my parents were home, and now this is great. What a great three weeks that was. Would couldn't go anywhere. So I do think of your kids. You probably heading for a lot of other people, don't feel the opposite, though we should wrap it up. Hang in there. This was fun. It was good talking to you as a os upgrade your decent spirits
and after the idea that we have to do our work this year gets in it. Bela right thanks to you, they procurator tags to fend off thanks to check closer men and we'll be back on Sunday night on the bs package, with Priscilla coming off of absurd seven and eight of the last dance and doing another episode of M J Renewables which, if, if you listen resellers pad, we did wizards balls, to night to ninety seven. You can find that one hour so by right now and see some During the weekend, Stacy
One way.
Transcript generated on 2020-06-02.