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NBA Optimism Alert!!! Plus: MJ vs. Tyson, Quarantine 'PTI,' 'The Wire,' and Post-Virus Social Un-Distancing With Tony Kornheiser and Van Lathan | The Bill Simmons Podcast

2020-05-13

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons shares his thoughts about Adam Silver’s meeting with the board of governors which seems to garnered "positive feelings" (2:28), before he's joined by ESPN’s Tony Kornheiser to discuss Tony’s mortal enemy, modern technology, continuing 'Pardon the Interruption' during the pandemic, and all-time captivating athletes including Michael Jordan, Mike Tyson, Muhammad Ali, Tiger Woods, Bobby Orr, Secretariat, and more (16:53). Then Bill talks with The Ringer’s Van Lathan about his rewatch of HBO’s ‘The Wire,' quarantine thoughts, COVID-19’s impact on Louisiana, ESPN’s ‘The Last Dance,’ and more (1:04:35).

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Threats have started to be as Pakistan, the Ringer package that work is brought to you by zipper cruder. If you ve been wondering what athletes some of our food, we have been doing out there. I guess you're not alone, because I've been wondering to. I can't wait to see if staff curry is Thou shooting in the low sixties and golf while some people businesses are branching out there and this time their places that are too what they have always done, like our presenting sponsors, zip recruiter throughout as their mission has remained the same. There still helping people find jobs, no growing companies higher for their teams, they're doing it by bringing together candidates who need employment and employers. Looking for great candidates pictures of committed to helping our workforce stay strong. What's work together, zip recruited outcome, slash work together also brought to you by world central Kitchenware, even help them raise money that they are doing some awesome stuff bring in food to the heroes. Front lines all over
country, as well as trying to keep local restaurants in business, and if you care about that stuff I would highly recommend you upset it of the day and show you met her today. He's been here a few times. He is an awesome. Pike asked him increasing income. That former World Bank president and epidemiology epidemiology? Why that's another word say: epidemiology expert Jim, came to discuss the science based methods for the United States to combat the cover Eighteen pandemic Chang shows there are a lot of good stuff about. What's going on last few months come up wherein attacked my. Friend, tony corn, iser about everything with this Jordan Dark how they do? A pity I during the pandemic and everything else and they'd vainly thin, whose, Thing on the wire weigh down on the whole great rigour package, by the way where you talk. Why the wire so sustainable,
fifteen years later, as an entertainment source and then later quarantine stuff, especially stuff going on in Louisiana events from so that's it first, our friends for Belgium. Did the beginning of this package at seven fifteen separate West Coast, Tuesday night we'd actually finish the pakistani for has it and then they come up with a lot of basque boss. That's happened over the last couple hours. Wanna talk about it really quickly. Some information came out about Monday and Tuesday. I was very pessimistic, as we discussed on Sunday night podcast. That we're gonna have momentum to continue this season, because a few,
things are happening one. There were three different camps with the owners. You add the owners who thought hey. Let's bring this. What are we doing complain, arenas, you add the owner sang not come back at all. This isn't worth it, and then you had owners in the middle trying to figure out this bubble strategy. She had that you had Adam Silver, the commissioner, the NBA, who you know the last six years has really taken, alas, here He is somebody that likes them sent to everybody, to take consensus, to really make smart decisions and to make his many people happy as possible, which is one of the reasons why he's been such a beloved commissioner. This was too into a situation where whatever decision he made, nobody was can be happy if they came back for all the other leagues, it would look like maybe pray didn't tramp? you know- and some owners cannot pushed him into coming back before was safe
if you didn't come back at all, and other sports are coming back like matches. You have see, but measures baseball and the email and anybody that comes back before the abbess, then it would look like he was now. Strong enough, sir. I think he was in a tough for a ladder reasons trying to balance lotta competing agendas. Then the third piece of this was the the association which until recently had a really been Boca once Michel Roberts got involved, vocally last week. That's when I really got word because now it's just so many competing agendas, what's gonna happen and what did to happen is basically what happened on Monday and what we could have been waiting for. This is a leak that is run bad superstars, that's been the case. Since the nineteen sixty is added, some point. The best players They were enough to ban together and
push one way or the other their unique either have to push for this. Safe. Stop talking about this, it's not right for us to come back or hey, let's, it's really try to get this going. If we're running at a time we have to exhaust our options in the outer figure. This out. So his hands at Yahoo reported that on Monday there, call range by Chris Paul and the people on that where Lebron James Chris Paul, Anthony Davis, Kevin the Red Janius, quite staff, Curry Damon lowered Russell Westbrook, so you have on that phone call one two, three, four five six. Ten of the most important point is the weak. Its action whose DOT on Africa, so you don't have Jane. Harden or Paul George, but they all have teammates around the
you don't have nuclear package or Jimmy Butler, and there the two best play I'm plan came so whatever system that comes out of this. It would have to be you no fourteen Extreme Plath teams, wherever they decided twelve, who knows there were no South x Ray actors, jazz or Sixers where's sea. If six at twelve p m, don't everyone on the car? I'm act ok with it, though I think this is their greatness this together quickly. These are ten of the most impact for guys, the league, so it remind me much different stakes, obviously of what happened in nineteen sixty four. The Astor game in Boston, Inachus Gazelle, one, bring Boston up here. You had the best personally frustrated for variety reasons: low wages too much travelling lack of a pension plan
and they just kind of had it and they finally tell the commissioner two hours for the Ostler game that they're not playing without some sort of pension agreement in place aid he's televised neck aim the avenue tv conch? that is is coming potentially for ABC, but if this asked our game faster. Now may not happen. You add basically all the best guys from the first twenty years there will Russell West Oscar Beller, and then you have Jerry Lucas's. They're gonna have a check Tom Lenny Wilkins seemed Jones. How Greer your read our back coaching You ve got him Larry Flasher, whose advising the players in the locker room, whose a powerful lawyer who became basically their first big advocate, and they end up take a vote in the locker room, David we're stand when he wrote about this and breaks through the game. He said there are two movements, one was movement, the who wanted a straight, the game that was led by heights and Russell Wilkins, and then couple other stars. What
the planned negotiate later included, will Chamberlain and it turned when the Lakers owner Bob Short sent a message that the latvian ordering West empowered to get dressed and get their asses out on the court which made everyone mad they screw we're not plan and they end up on the fly. The commissioners are right. If you play I recognise our union since then this has happened over and over again with the league We ve had these moments where the best players had to be in together in some way You saw it happen, the ninety nine lockout out when it really seem like that Caesar was Guinea, I canceled eventually they all figured out at a table. There's legendary story about Charles Oakley slapping Charles Barkley, but this is a where german league there's only basic twelve guys on. They really have fifteen but twelve suit up at any. Given time, there's only fifteen or sixteen
really truly relevant impact for Guys- and I think, you know, we might remember this as a real moment in history, where, again, the guys are Chris Paul abroad. Anthony Davis, Kevin Durrant yeah squire, Steph, Curry, Damon, lowered and rest Westbrook. They are by, then the car thereon agreement according to Chris hands quote. Take the core with proper safety messages are its proper safety measures. Once the league is given the green light to commence now them up Interesting guy and that caused lizard, because he's not gonna make the playoffs Oh I was he in their because, even if not in the plan picture contains points out quote there is concern cancelled, seizing could negatively affect this next year. Yeah so really. This is just about the plan teams and about Leubronn trying to win the next title and all that stuff. This goes. You know a little deeper,
This is what this is about. Our our finance the situation. Will never be the same. If we miss the season, this Ebay will not recover robots back so so you know. I don't think, there's any way this season happens if the best personally were against it. I mean it's a positive sign that the best players were for it. Ok, now next words ASCII our guy woes, is be an asian Roger ASCII he's, so he tweets attendees left or the governors cow that observe its re feeling positive about momentum towards MBA return to play this season. Scutcheon included how Lee players will need to a comfortable with some positive test for virus, not shutting down a resumption guy has been what it there's been too big sticking points that I've heard over and over again with this one was that. Arabs over some of the owners just didn't feel comfortable with a potential pr here that the legal take. If they do this, Babo system and their jasper
through Tass tests that you know their people in this country in an aid, especially if there's a I can weigh with virus coming. I think there, Very wary of the outside world. Looking at them and being like you guys, why are you playing you guys are being greedy you're only doing this for the money you burning through these tests. In it be going to better class. So, that's in the air and that something they are concerned about the second, this A piece of that again from tweet discussion, included how Lee players will need to get comfortable with some positive tests for virus, not shining down a resumption. This has been the their sticking point. What happens if we have another go bear situation. What happens if the so leading the raptors to London in addition, a game for of Uclaf series and somewhat starts for the rafters comes down with corona. Do you shut up and down the panic what you do and
I think they're trying to read their heads around right now. Hey were problem, we might have a couple Tessier no matter how? Well, we do this bubble system, you just ever now be somebody was asymptomatic and may be somebody who had an eminent comes out because it everybody can play basketball format. Who knows you just down now So what do we do if that happens? It seems like from at least that we in Ireland talked enough people about this yet but It seems from at least that tweet that there are certain rap heads around eight. We might have a couple of of positive tests at the end of the world, is that if somebody who's in Twenties early thirties, whose in physical shape gets this hollow, that knock em out for could he be out to ease with that night. As for the rest of the air. What if he doesn't pass on, thereby us at least there have in this? gosh you now and if there are not coming back the thing now worried me in what I talked about on Sunday as it didn't feel like
there were actually having the practical discussions of ok. What happens if this happens? What happens if that happens, sea had here's. This is the second thing that made me more optimistic than a bend in or in a couple weeks This is another word. Street silver used the term campus environment when referencing what's been called a bubble. I think about that, that means. There's been real thought put into this, because the bubble the quarantine bubble all makes it sound, like you know, These guys are in like basically an outdoor pseudo prison We can't go anywhere in a bubble, you say campus, it's a lot of friendly array campuses. The word that leg ESPN uses Compaore is paying campus. Well guess what it is, it's a bunch of buildings and Middle Connecticut. Facebook save thing, hey the Facebook campus.
Really great apple, Cumnor Apple, campers campus, seems happy campuses. Like my college campus, it just seems like a big place that has a bunch in it that you'd want to be so very subtle, but very format that they're now not saying the word bubble. They want to say campus campus environment makes it seem happier makes it seem like people aren't wrapped the reality. Is people are going to be trapped if they do this correctly once you're in you not leave in one everybody's in nobody else comes in and that's how they're gonna have to do it. That's the best way to do it, that's what they ve been talking about for the last six weeks, as we keep talking about in this podcast ass. The other part of that tweet were said, quote calling did significant detailing how other pro sports legs here in a broader working towards their returns. This is key. Is I think, they were Canada. The wait and see thing I have the Bundestag is coming back see
I got my last might come back. You just said you see last week, so we have moving out, who knows a baseball who knows if they'll get their shit together in time. So that's good and then and then Sham said. Shame. Surat here, there's a sense, his words. Where's namby eight both want to finish the two thousand eighteen twenty season and inform wrapped up where's listed below serving a new committee work with the wagon on potential plans, and that committee includes Chris Paul Russell spoke, silent, Jason Tatum, two way power and Kyle. Actually so there's there are rafters and celtics about this. Some point, which makes sense cuz they'll, be top five seed so I think all this is really positive. Really, scared man! I talked about on Sundays. Pod was we didn't seem like we had any momentum. It was just a lot of people staring at each other waiting for some. To make a move.
Stop of having to be the prayers, and I dont know where I'm sure we'll get more information of next coming days. Who really push for this I still don't know who were in the different camps with the owners. I have a couple ideas, but I like anything else, and we see this like in times of crisis in the NBA, in a passion for five, big owners and somewhere between five to ten point, and that's who ends driving this. You ll get somewhere Leubronn he she's right it at a time. Just stay in career was his pen the way it's two thousand threes. If he's not the As far he's, one of the three out aspires, He doesn't have allowed lot chances that her as a title, if you feel comfortable with saw a campus set up walk out of here, pushed a play in you know These guys are not to mention the Sea Ba in the financial impact. So I,
This is really encouraging and I it's funny I was talking to submit this morning and saying how how, I just made. I was cuz. I just didn't seem like I thought, just felt like they're running out of time, it's may 12th we're headed toward May 15th. And for this, to get going realistically would have to get going in the beginning of July. I think I understand that intuitively The fact that we have real momentum is positive. I want to get my thoughts. Are the record I have passed Mr Bildt is gone. Optimistic bill is back, let's, let's bring my frank organizer, I tony colonizers here we just came off a traumatic thirteen minute episode, I tried to get him on zoom, which failed, so nappies is out audio zoom. I you know you're advertised, the guy who doesn't like technology and flying and I just found out first hand you really- like technology really don't know. I would I I would like to use,
hey and loathe I'd like it times. Three hundred thousand, I dont like any of these things. We got a call last night was about fifteen friends in high school. My wife can get on occasions. Couldn't get on. Yours do is adjusted. She just couldn't get on it, but I was on this call where's my what that fifteen high school friends- and you know I'd like seeing them in a little boxes. I didn't like the fact that only one person talk at a time and it was quick to be honest. It was creepy, it was creepy. I felt like a boy over and I I didn't enjoy it even though it's so happy to see them all physically. I would have been happy just to look at them and not have to join me in on every level. You showed me. This would be easy. It now only wasn't easy was traumatized. Twenty hours later, the New EAST might say: I'm you ever get display back I'll, never get it back. I love you,
talk to you, but I hate all notions of food all of these things that enable people of a certain age to interact and the way I am passed a law I'm I'm here? I mean the out back. I get out of the city, I merely out back. I don't want to do it. I thought you were at least tactics, We have enough to be able to press control C and copy the linkage to a google browser, but what I Do you know that you're reacted like I was asking to donate a kidney? No, I can't I can barely himself circa. Now I cant do control ski control old or any of that stop. I can't then you're, the only person who even I asked me to do it most people have pity on me and they just let me be already. So I want to tell I'm comfortable on the telephone yeah
We figured out how to do an audio zoom with you, which I had said its work, unhappy about it's really nice to target I don't understand. How you have pulled off doing pity. I because you're doing that from a location will bonds, another location, split screen. That's why it even that I felt like the odds of them successfully pulling that offered. You were like a hundred to one. So let me explain exactly how it works. I'm in my attic, you see a small background behind me as I try to sell my most recent book back for more, yes and then put girls paintings on the war. My wife's paint was on the war encased. Anybody wants to buy them. Somebody for really quite nice, and I said you need this somebody over here every single day, and they said why, and I said because if anything goes wrong and when I say anything, I mean anything, goes wrong, I'm incapable of fixing it
not going to be able to walk me through it. I'm not going to even listen to you, I'm going to say to you send somebody over here, so they send somebody over every single day. And that's the only reason that it works, and we d about an hour thirty forty times and three or four times it has not worked, and there would have been no show it's it's pretty simple. I know what might skills it is my skills. I don't I don't go to the home depot. I dont go to target. I don't go to these places and pick stuff out. I don't do it myself. I dont know how to do that. My only skill set is talking in some would say you not very good at that, but it I have. No mechanical skills is a true story them when I was in junior high school in New York state before you were born There was a series of tests called the can you d are preference tests and they were designed to test your attitude.
In a variety of formats? There were five or six tests and, on the other, said were sort of academically while you're at it. I was ninety nine percent, while and on the one hand there was a category. I got an eleven on spatial relations. I got a fourteen and I remember for sixty years, because I cannot do those things down and it was this. Was God saying to me the bachelor with type learn how to type get a career sportswriter. I did, but I don't understand how you even sentence stories for the washed and posted workers. Forever ass, you're ready for added a David. The occasion I could call up somebody get alive person dictate so down the road they had these. These things that spot copy around and they won't. We had people want, raided them. I think they were technically God copy spinners ah
and then, however, it thought you, however, we got to the office it got to the office. And I got out of the way the tribal out it's like basically travelling with seeing eye dog. That's what I've had to do well, no worse your worst, fair with pity I really for the last twenty Yours is that our friend well by would. Finally, figure out a way to never have to do the shower you're in the same room. There now, God in his way, and that's not the way here on it obviously, but he's. Finally, it took up the almost twenty to get here and now you're on the split screen with them, and that's just your destiny. Now this makes me you know, look I love like I love doing the show. I am so grateful, so many people work I feel badly for them. I have my work and I am very grateful for that because it gives me something to do, but this is a relationship show built on site builder.
Looking at the other person interrupting the other person, because his note away you just look at the person, you got what I'm talking about an end. That's what we did for a long period of time. My gloves to be away loves to be on. The road only tells you, my friends, tell me all the time one I'm on the road. I got this ethical lying to you master when you want, but now this is it this is it the rest time yeah split screen with a dumb way, with a full set into a second, and I have the way that I guess the people in Bristol were able to cut through that, you know me: we do it early enough in the day, so they can play with the video. But it's it's it's not it's a fine show. It represents a certain degree of normal, see. I think people
grateful to have us on even know were folded in the sports sector and we are not our own entity. We still do in about twenty minutes were content, but it's it's not it's not the same. Show unhappy people like it, but you know. Could you ve done the show? I always insist: if there's gonna be somebody doing a show, you have to do it with me. You have to sit with me. I wouldn't. Whenever target we used to make laboratory come up from Miami. If you're going to be with me, you always with me bill you, that's what I want. I want that relationship shop, while member when I started hosted a more in two thousand Levin, two thousand twelve. Basically I told them. I wasn't doing anymore unless I was in the room with because I hated running in the class I caught the closet. I've been this closet avenue sad you're, a second delay.
Staring, there would have to start laughing at your job before you finished a joke because sword match up with the delay as this is. Do you suppose tat energy have been in this empty room? It's I don't feel like I'm doing television. I just don't like this, and I stopped doing. No. It's it's no good that the delay, the entire purpose of the show is in the title. Pardon me: interruption can interrupt on the way it doesnt work. It am, I hope it's good, but it's not the optimum circumstances. Just not, though we can and we I want to talk about the Michael Jordan document. Are you sure you are of the many old white guys left out of the interview list. If they, I think their capacity was like an egg, they can only fit somebody in very well said one more year. You know that seen in good fellows, they bring
able for railway odor right down and brought, even though there is not able to get a better deal for me here. That's true of a complicated relationship with them over the years, covered em you You ve talked about democracy and then randomly at an hour. He comes to Washington and Yes- to wit the wizards and is tight with, whereby there playing golf and and then he ends up now it does it go out with the wizards by as your watch this what we're expectations and then how are they realized? Well, I didn't want to talk about how to expectations when you start to watch this, you get about twenty thirty minutes in, and you said yourself, I'm sorry. Why is in Jordan on the screen? I don't care about, that is wadman unobservant, Scotty Pippen. I don't care about their lives. I care about Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan is
fasten he's six and all in that's Germantown, aware that doesn't happen and most sports he's here Thirdly, we charismatic- I want to see him yeah if other people want to talk about him, I'll live with that when Beach, bigger ones one I had no idea. I want to listen. Dj Armstrong talk about Michael Jordan, but I don't wanna hear Scotty Pippen talk about starting Pippen. I didn't I dial into the Scotty Tipping documentary within his workmen dot. I'm not interested in that yeah. I want to watch this one guy who's, the both cowards market, one of the most hours Matic athletes have everything. Don't you feel? Then, why yeah? I that's why I like the last two upsides most, but also understand why they had to do it that way, cause they're trying to do a ten, our dark, and at that point you have
hell can dive into the character said that it was the right choice, but I just personally like the last four, or because now we're able to really start to get to the heart of make on you know they they get most of it. They they ignore the family stuff pretty much completely and that might have been because he just that tight with the family or whatever other, that I was actually impress the day, Dover gambling staff and that he was wont to talk about it and the stuff with his dad and and things like that, it certainly was not It didn't play out the way. Some of these other docks play out where their. Basically, let me show you the revelation for me in this room was a revelation We have all seen where Michael Jordan takes the championship. Trophy and collapse is holding the trophy after the war, I guess, that's the fourth one right yeah work. Ninety six, we ve seen it
We haven't heard it when you hear it You understand the context you understand, those are sobs of anguish, yeah, that's not happy That's not happy at all. That's that's such a week your mom. How many times have we seen moments, but Michael Jordan over the years, and this one was deprived, was because we didn't have sound. I dont know if you felt the same way at the Kobe Bryant Service. I was flat. The Jordan. I was offered by Jordan that he allowed himself to be that you man, I was just I wasn't you used to that, and I was so impressed.
Empathetic with him at tat moment, but that's not a word that I would have used for. There are moments in this dark, but they win seven and eight more than one to six from you so far. I might stop that. I might have ended it at the end of seven when you just put the EU peace out. This has break him. That's it that's good! I'm good! Now yeah. So where does he you know? It's been a genuine younger people. Talk about this in an really experienced all Jordan thing for the first time. I think that three greatest athletes that pass through my lifetime- where I could remember watching sports, which really starts- and they made two seventy four. Seventy five ranch were Ali, Michael and then Tiger I really fight those three were kind of levitate, of everybody else that I got to witness. Where do I? What what's your list
I mean my list because, because I studied english history as a kid, my list always includes Babe Ruth. Even I never saw him because he changed sports in America and Jackie Robinson. I have no clear recollection of Jack. You are playing with change. What's in America, better off. If I just tell you this, that being even a where they should now athlete where you? U tingle, you literally tingle in anticipation of what that person is going to do- and possibilities unfolding in front of you. That evening I would say that my top three I've got to you swing. I've got Jordan. I've certainly got Ali, but my third was surprising, the single most How is Matic ACT? We I had ever been around and it's a very specific time was MIKE Tyson walking
to a ring. Only a town- and I just said it- I covered enough Thyssen Bites. Why why? Oh, my god, Our mental. This is so different, for indeed and then are than are. We and I was I could not take my eyes off my taste so till you down the other one and I would add another wildcard. Nobody else would would use it. They were No, I you know, I think, that's really fair. The Thyssen was Scully three years older than me, and I was- I saw every Thyssen fight I loved watch in time, That's all. I literally. I watched every single one of them from the whatever he's Are they gonna national tv? And I think that's why the Douglas laws with such, like aid, I remember when I was when this happened moment because it was so. What do you was? Gonna beat him down right that wasn't
I thought I was down beside me somewhere and it was a February Saturday night. I was in college and I remember everybody. I shall fight with Ed and its most stunning last I've ever seen. I hurried evil, sir surpasses anything so yeah. I think I think that's fair to put Is it in there? I think we penalize him for some of his off out of the room stifled souvenirs whereby me mom, I'm almost apologetic when I say it, because I'm not endorsing challenge not endorsing behaviour, I'm not doing any that I'm talking about the sheer act of one human being. Almost mesmerizing and hypnotizing someone else. I could not take my eyes
when he walked in the ring, I then always ran across the wizard got me before the Bell yeah across to do business. So I tell tee who got like eighty percent there and I think, got further then maybe maybe they get for now is those curry warriors teams, especially in the regular season. When went the way that they were connected with opposing crowds and a different. Daddy aims around around country and how beloved that was what an experience it was to go, see them in person and how people are showing up an hour and a half before to watch curry warmonger that already that the chairs a rule to warm up yet, I I dont think Braun had ever, and I got to turn this into Lebron verse. Anyone conversation- I just don't think he ever got to that specific point. Where
Currie warriors to have really reminded me of what it was like with Jordan there during the last three bull seasons. When the people would show up for the games as as soon as they could get into the building just go, they may be. He was warming up when they got there are many aid yeah, all sport, you give it all sorts of different, there's a warm up, quality to stuff curry, that's different from other sports. You can watch a quarter back for the board down the field sort of working passes. You know two hours before the game, but you pretty much out to be a sportswriter to get in at that time and see it I have that same feeling, the same feeling of desire and longing to see a servant thing. It's very often to see a specific picture. I dont that no Ryan, when I was a sportswriter, because every time he waited seven There have been no eaters every time he went out there. There was the possibility of something he had never seen before any moment right why it was possible to strike out twenty seven like
you know we could bring it. No one line could do that living in Washington. Now, if you give me a chance to see that or whether on television I will plan my evening around that it's usually for pictures and not hitters, because it hitters cases situation. They come up at a certain time and uncertain situation. Legal, ok, I'm watching this. What war but was really given. You may want to watch a quarterback occur back. They excite. You are running back next site, you sometimes of past Russia. They excite you, but they are not there not out there enough. They can only be out there half the time that most you know it. So it sort of not the sentiment I was talking with Wilburn today was air, but she was wondering if there would ever be a Brady documentary. And what a lady would, because we want important might to believe the Brady's. Careful tweet units is like George, that that's what they're abbeys. Let us do it that way, and I, like it
It wouldn't be the same for football player because they are they only really normal half the team. The only on the field half the time they can only. They can only elevate the people who play with so the whole other side. The ball is a fine language to them. So it really. I don't think it's the same in basketball, you wanna! Well, it's the smallest group thing you you're there every day it's not it's. No pictures are different than hitters and defence of wine and no different than tied ends in basketball. Everybody's pretty much the same. I imagine in eighty years ago we gold is a problem. Different. Don't you think yeah. I think I hockey in the seventies having or was like tat for people in its eye caught the tail end of war and he'd already had at least one big. Surgery at that point, but I think the people there to see him in the late sixties and early. Seventy is felt this way it was like this is.
This guy's GIS skating at different speeds. He'd and the angles taking it just there's nobody. He almost looks like he's. Different species. I felt we eat when you talk about pitchers. That's It was like with Pedro Boston for those couple years. Elsewhere is just like you. I want, similar on further gay, I wake yeah You dont occur down, yet it felt like every star. He had Jesse their strike out twenty guys throw no had her throw perfect gave at it down. Needed. You're too, so I'm with you on that, got to see Russell, though. At least very heavy yeah yeah. I got a few mantelish because I'm remember when I was an eighteen team, we add rustling, cable in war, on all the time and I admired I admired Russell so much because of the way that he played for
but understood what he was good added. Why wasn't good added didn't attempt to do things like russian today? they say. Oh, you know, the big man has to prove our move it out, but will crash Europe from twenty six feet. That's not what don't Russell did and build a thought that out because GO vessel understood everything he could do and he wasn't. He wasn't like wilt amid nobody was like what does as the physical specimen, but he wasn't like we'll do that. He did not suffer, give me up of leading to do everything member and will, at the end, had to leave illegal asserts just to show you how to do it because he didn't want before up as this one dimensional player, which he certainly wasn't, I mean weren't, is he's just amazing. Just amazing, but actually lazy, but that was also the problem with well. Where e he cared so much about the numbers of things, and he was I got here,
big, unselfish, I'm gonna try to eat the league and assess, and then he actually changes the way he plays in some ways. For the worse, because so intent on getting aid today. Is this a game? Russell was always just you know what it. What is it you take for us to win this game? care must now using? I think it's important that I think that is a distinction that is important. It is not to say that was always better than chambers. I would never say that, but rather one the rustle dominated levels, Russell, what teams and they may very well have been markedly better than chamberlains teams, but lots of teams. I that went home women chamber seems did not in place I did not I'd about that. My book about in Berlin had Russell had a better team, the Chamberlain the first couple years and after that it was either even our chamberlain was better basically from like nineteen sixty three sixty four on
he played with the West end algebra or his we need to to but he added were you team. Yet how Greer, Billy, Cunningham and golly, I didn't Walker and Lucius Jackson, and while we don't know that illicit Jackson that Gus Jets, yea and Lucy was loaded yeah, that was that may have been the best and be a team ever that one year that they. Finally one amendment that's great rustling. I mean I will from sixty six to seven day. I think he was the his team was the prohibitive favorite every year for the last five years in the sixties and Russell and up one in three anyway. Hey. Can I ask you? This is gonna, be a weird one secretary. It was kind of like that right, Secretariat, yeah, I'm a digesting by that. Third by that third race was I who it was the most compelling was going, ok, so out
Of course, I do remember that pretty well and it is a sore point in my life actually but nobody's gonna care about, but I will talk about it because it's my life and unbridled trip sector. It went where now, when he of candidate series of fifty greatest that leads to the twentieth century yeah. Somebody on this phone call had secretariat I don't think it was you, I think it was me and I would have put secretariat higher, but a crescendo laughter when I put him eight bothered me enough. I wouldn't put em. I couldn't get him anywhere, they all they should have been through for anyone, so he he's rating. He's racing in the first two wags the triple crown and he's waiting against a horseman sham, I believe, secretary and sham. If you looked up and he beat the derby now by away any beaten in the past.
His by Alain for something like that and it breaks my heart beating sham twice in a row in the Belmont, he beat him and everybody else by thirty. Three lay the gap between secretariat and the second place horse is a job that they make about when the rights that are blue baby, you know that's what it is my daddy Blake, seems hard and Newsday new things. All island cape certainly was a long island. They produce days my first job, I love Newsday, like I love no other employer in my life. My first job and I'm living at home. You know I grew up on long island were long island high school sport is a dream for me. If anything and everything that I could have asked what well Belmont part is half
He now saw county and half in Queens, Gabby Efficacity half on the island sore sport should it at the time the great stand I get to the great columnist and Larry merchants best friend, the great can Isaac she's gonna blow out. The coverage of the bellman with Secretary Just crown you know what that hasn't been a triple crime. While it's gonna be a real big deal to see. If you can win it, we have, I guess, twenty five thirty people on the staff. He assigns every body to go to the bell mind and assigned a very specific little story, everybody other. The lead writer in the lead columnist, he's gonna, write and twelve inches me, I don't get invited to go. I dont get invited to go. I watched at least on tv basically weeping that Michael is open up the wild career because I'm on the only a minute what what and it's not like you pay.
Told you gotta be offered a poor communication, fails white, all the story yourself, don't don't you take a day off and some I didn't watch. The bell everybody on the news that staff watch the bill on live. I watch live, but it was like on television and the job. It kills me for this day that I was not part of the coverage. No, and I love it, I locked the horse. I love the story. The horse, I used to listen a bill now talk about the horse, you know and stuff like that, and then I have a claim endearing, doing spot for Secretariat and when NBC did that simulated derby thing the other day in Secretariat one I was, totally here for settling for academic yeah. I love also Terry content, and I really wonder that's that somebody that is there a way ahead of its time. If he becomes evident,
thousand twenty. I think people Kate. Even imagine what would happen with someone he drives me, no Wilburn will bunches dismisses all orchestrated or cheese. Why do you care about that? This was a giant when, once the mean just the impasse that you would be in a hoarse ways- and this is the other thing that will buy- it- doesn't even consider to be the strength to be a jockey sitting down jam. Cheer up any the eyes the whole way they weigh one five hundred way anything the strange in their arms, the balance that they show their fantastic outwards. Didn't I, what am box when I I love it I can't imagine between Robot Austin we get in Chicago he's. He's the king Gos
he got into the air he the Hall of Fame thing. Yet he lies in this Michael Jordan, Doc. It's on its big deal rear wise, except for the terrible pandemic, which is a little supper for this, but It was really shaping up as the year of Wilburn and I don't use, be postponed and be postponed a year. That's all. But what did he because he was, but he loves the Jordan Doc so much but we were actually on the air any used. The word it's a world. The three would forward its a worldwide obsession, and I mean if the camera was obvious, that, like the camera, would have registered by complete a week, but I heard it said that they were wide obsession wide eyed tickets. I take it was gonna work, but the fact that we have sports and nothing to talk about every day, really helped. I know I've gotten force out weeks of podcast content out of it mainly because it
I think I've been. I always try to. I want the podcast reflect whatever I'm talking. With people in my life and what are we to talk about just now, been wrestling about the or the ratings are spectacular there there, their large then and be a finals ratings people are people are star for sports It's not that they waited a long time for this, but Michael Jordan. He has not diminished in people's eyes. Maybe He hasn't been a great honor. He hasn't been successful, but as a player he has not diminished in people's eyes and that the debate that keeps him alive all the time is debated. Don't you think it's a debate, Jordan and Braun. I'd love to me. I'm one welcome abroad, the bronze great he's, not he's not greater than Michael Jordan is just not it Michael, took and all in the fighting. All rail tell people what
that means. Listen I've never wavered from firmer Jordan as the goat, eight dead packs and the ceiling and all that suffer the only way the had a chance to get him was just by playing twenty three. Airs at a high level or site. You know some crazy durability, slash form in saying that we have seen, but he was never going to be. Have a higher ceiling? I dont think nobody stuff we cipher. Maybe that's the wind more he'd have to all the time and once you don't win all the time, it's just it's! You cannot compare to to Jordan. In that regard, I mean just get some guy wrote the other day and wash your pulse look. I was writing about why he took the Brown overjoyed any mention the early Cleveland my guess is that labelling carried to the final long as you don't. You said it was
what you gonna gene and do you know when and Jordan always have got it had been, and I wanted I wanted to take the newspaper and I wanted to crop up in my hand and throw it through this particular writers head you. If I could have done that features, you will get you look at the Chicago teams. Did you see the reason those people are good is because everyone's attention is Michael Jordan, you, Michael Jordan, all the time with blood then went to play with Dwayne Weight and Chris Bars and then want to play with car. We urged, the eleven that make yes, let's, let's not make the bronze career,
to reaching down into the pockets of of you know about gaunt, stir and pulling out players. That's absurd! It's just absurd and anticipate the Jordan played with great players. Again, I would tell you the truth made those players Glenn that that they had the ability to be great, because so much attention was aunt, Jordan and I'm trying to make Jordan into you know what God, like I'm not doing that, but as a basketball player and the other. The other thing this guy said was well the brain out, rebounded them well no kidding Bron is point what what are you talking about? I mean it. That's not an argument that were Braun has more. We bound the microbes. What some so am I right on this, but they did this in your preaching the choir. So I turned fifty six months ago. Can you on Don't you dare not even talking about fifty, don't open I want an hour, rearview mirror
I want to know what are the signs that officially turning into an old sports. Maybe a white guy, or has it already happened, and I don't see the sides it giving gimme some tell us I mean I don't know, I don't know how that works in all this. They want a logical. Well, I'm Leavin totally said about me. He says that I'm musty and crusty, maybe that's true, but I don't necessarily think that everything I saw I was twenty. Five is better than it is now I don't. I don't either dead that no. I mean I like I liked what I saw and it didn't fond memories you know. I don't necessarily think that this stuff is better. I don't knock, thing that's going on now I dont mean I looked. It will probably not look at Tom Brady. I got my God, my God, nine superboss. He wants
ex tomorrow should one, but tomorrow should allow us to secure tracings echo of care count. Doesn't it the man like a fair count, but he's spectacular do it. It is forty, so totally spectacular. I wouldn't just what about that go back. I would tell you that United in Montana rates there they're all time grades but I'm not gonna, stand up and say you're better than Brady Iconoclasm puss brain regenerated his hair, I mean never gets enough. Credit for that is cat, like Michael landed, had a hare these days. Really Yes well. I hate eaglewood. Here it's one of the repressive like you that I still have my eyes. The hair is wider. I was During last night, the NFL network was showing the nineteen. Ninety four dolphins, patriot, week, one game: Dan Marino drew Bledsoe battle with Jim amply entire Kristensen announcing an like and guess what I am talking
since it had bowed. He had exactly the hair. You thought he would had so I watch most of the game, my son, who really got enough about the last year and I gotta say football: we just incredibly violet they deserve. Police, thematic, cheap shots, poor bank coats, the patriots tied end, take took a couple shots at the guy. Would you He kicked out of the game. Now the quarterbacks are getting annihilated like Marino Guy guys, commoners knees, guys getting. Thrown to the ground, and in my and was, like God, forbid, with so much better back then, like he loved it, he loved the violence that has again we we have rid of all this. I think I use this phrase once in some. I recently heard. You know one of the happiest, unapologetically violent yeah, that's what they were. Basically, however, our you have seen the guy gets knocked out really wow. What a knock out. We don't judge it in full by
what we're like the IKEA watch that stuff You say that it's not me. It's not! I I'm a casual fan who will get the big paper views. I got the paper view on Saturday night and it really enjoyed it, and I was surprised there was no fancying, where we talked about him Ipod on Sunday about how cool it would be if the end, I just said: fuck it and they played. These games the quarantine bubble and instead of fans you just had, really good audio of of the guys talking on the court and coaches. I dont they don't ever have the balls to do it. I think too many land mines to it? But I think it would be amazing. I would love to hear the stuff on the court, even if they had to put like the game. Three minute delayed and make sure if somebody aids, screaming. You know mother fucker, as I, whatever you protect, like whatever you have to protect, but
I thought it was so cool to listen to the corners and even just hear this sounds crazy. You RO at the NBA was like in the seventies when data in play music during the game, and there in time out, you can actually here the coaches, like especially like you were bring your Sitten court side bid court. You can hear everything on the core right. Yeah, I mean what are used to listen to the more than anything. Was you notice now? You know why They went to my wheel house on the next and how much I love the next in late, sixties and seventies, and in those days and people young will find this amazing. They didn't need. Fourteen assistant coaches over five give me that they had a coach, they had a trainer and they had a publicity man casual work.
Let us get old had barely Wayland, who was the trainer who is in charge of two things, keeping track of bows and getting on the referees and they had Jimmy work way. So was the pr guy who also got on reference and then and then read where was paid. The coach, the team and amazingly, did yeah hold the team and, I think, all Think it was that way throughout the NBA, the amount of assisted coaches? and the real estate they take up, which could be seen that could be sold. It is amazing to me yet have they like the three riding with my friend Larry Brown. I go. I think Larry was one of the early guys on them from so when I started going inside the games in the mid seventies. We had in this is when these two, let me walk on the court. I could rebound further guys before the game. That is clear, is just totally different air, but we only had to cut.
We're Tommy Heights and is the head coach and John kill Lazy assistant in there as a game, and I swear this happened. This is our member it anyway there, the game where both of them got kicked out, at our back. Was there sitting the third row any came out of the sky and coach? the gay, because a billboard coaches, like think about how say that is now the billygoat which one of the other thirteen coaches do we have here was to take over We had already am football, but there's probably twenty five assistant coaches in football matches I mean you knew you can. Actually you can actually, as a profession, be an assistant codes. Forty years I mean that's sorting due to meet in India in those days you had a manager. Now there were a couple of guys. You certainly had to have somebody in the bullpen and then you had a guy sitting near the manager, but not as many as now.
Unification I got him baseball from managers was priceless because managers of If you were covering a team, and you are new to the team. You're, a nice game for seven o clock start manager got there. Three o clock Manderson, dug out from three o clock on and told you every single thing he did the night before, and why and taking a master class in two weeks you you can actually baseball, I'm not that about basketball and I'm not sure about football baseball is a noble sport you can learn baseball, you really can you can figure out and guess, alongside because baseball stops long enough to figure out what you doing and there's a strategy.
To start with. Only because you know you're gonna have to go to late, I'm not sure basketballs. That way, I think they ask your book. I think the movement is too quick and in football I just think. There's too many moving points, baseball, here's one guy! It's it's nine! Against one Yang! It's it's it's a different dynamic. It is. I guess I will sound like an old guy sportswriter when I say how much I you'll love to watch baseball, and I do I miss baseball terribly. Well, you had I really Mesopotamia. I miss it way more. I you know you'd get to this spring and encourages this of this spring from Euro is the NBA playoffs any hockey seven and then just the red Sox than that They were just beyond the tv every night and now thou hast thou watching the night. They did that before dolphins pay
its game Monday night. You're a lot better than I am, I seem to land on either bridesmaids or mission impossible fall out. Every single I am so those are size movies. It does it The choice is nowadays you We know worrying I've never wise, but about when you recover, baseball in the seventies. You you wanted to get even more for the manager. Wouldn't you just go the hotel bar. I mean how much much journalism was done at the hotel bars the weight seventies early eighties because they all ended up. I think it yeah, I think, as a rule that that you know the players didn't drink where the man two drank and manage a bay or they got it at the hotel boy I, a bar guy soybean- I didn't do that. I I got up early I went to the ball park. I sat my listened and I took notes. I listen to Ralph help for two straight weeks explained. I spoke to me it's just.
You're spectacular and you find over the course of time or managers are willing to do that. You're willing to tell you about the day before they wanted. They made a lot of decisions. They had time to think. About them, and they want to justify them too, and they go back and forth with you with that Do you think right? What would you think carry Frank? Honor was being honest about Michael Jordan, Spaceball ability in the document I got so interesting. When I didn't know the terrifying corner with the man, Birmingham like oh yeah, tell her I'm Keller, new that any Andrea, Frank on a study would have made the majors I'm you know, I don't know it's a real small sample size and then maybe I am informed by Chee Chee Ball and his lack of of going up the ladder in baseball, but I dont think Franconia would have lied about that. I'm a woman! I don't! I don't think he had to flatter Jordan in that way. I think- maybe
It's true, that's not to say that he would have been as good as both Jackson idea Sanders, but maybe he would have made it it just there's like as the years passed. Nobody wants to be the person who who says look, there's no The way you do is make it. The major links are, I think, I'd like let them get ahead or so you're about to all too, with very possibly couldn't have done it, but I don't You don't Franconia! Well, you upfront, honor! He was an unbelievable manager to win so you so wouldn't you believe him? How do you think that's a flat yeah. Who knows, I just don't think at this point in life anyone's gonna, be the one who just comes out was I click? It was ludicrous I was thirty years old. You know had to play baseball for twelve years. He was gonna make the majors, but it was said that he had to do. I don't. I Look. Why don't you something you something? It is true that Haiti
with it, and I don't know if you would have stayed with he would have worked hard enough. Yes, he would have tried hard to right. I don't, I think you would have tried, I think, if you given it sweet, for years, they would have been different, then one year after year, three quarters of the year. Really. You know how I just wonder about the the by that he had its that's a really hard body to have four based when you're, six, six or higher used to be like a like a behemoth. At that point, What did it interesting in the dark when the train or said I trained? You become a baseball body and now you're going back to back the bullets entirely different. I am that interesting here that I really did so well. You had to book up at that point. Do the whole thing ass? If we, then we did a thirty four thirty about it paid based bonnet does either way it does seem like it rejuvenated him in at least paved the way for him to are to come
Furthermore, we got three now with a different case He came till. He came back. I remember when you retired from writing. People like he's gonna, come back some day, it's gonna happen and adjusted never happen. You became a tv, those it happens when I'm but my attic with a happy birthday. Happy anniversary, which I take great pains to write. How do I do say it out. Said earlier. You like I, when I was writing in there, is like a very split secularism. Tony was writing something and then you're writing happy endings for you say I'm that's what I do. That makes me happy. No man, why are you know? Memoir got enough? No member? No! No! No. No member, I guy, postpone your dog walk back ten minutes. Corn iser pleasure is always good to talk to you. Yes, do me, one favor tell people out there that I have my own party ass. They can listen. Why don't you tell them.
I am a pod yesterday- that you can listen to you- can get it on all the places where you get podcast, like I guess: Apple and Spotify, and radio dot com basically radio show it's not along, interview with you know it's different. Unless this it's all people it's called the show sticks, yeah vicious things, that's a while he just one email. Thanks for having me I'll, be there Your dear should tax for comrade sad everybody, ok goodbye, I vainly the coming of, and second first one say about a couple: Ringer Pack has like baseball, barbecue, Jake Men's Jordan, shoes Domain, their serving as your guides to the good, bad and utterly bizarre corners of the baseball world, and all that makes it- I we were hoping to launch this before the baseball season, but then you know the pandemic happened, so they ve delayed baseball. Worse,
gonna find they're gonna be go down all bunch rabbit Alice. You dont know these guys, you well because there are they. There really talented their young there funny they love baseball and it's a sport that's become increasingly hard to talk about anyway, but we feel that they can do it so subscribe wherever you ass, the baseball barbecue, The wire way down the hall with vainly than in Gmail hell bands about the command, hope here. Listening to that, when we are sub tv concierge which exclude on Spotify pop on Papa thereabout. Once we talk about, shows that a much him, but if you want little twelve to fifteen minute now, keep I've shallow dives on shows that are gonna, whether you should watch him or not, and then finally, we are behind the billions with Brad, complemented David, the being breaking down every episode of the show, as it happens on Sunday night.
Go check out all of the rear back as their work offerings that we have. You can get them on Spotify, an app on everywhere else that whose Van Nathan I Bin Laden is with us. He house, upon CAS on the ringer with Gmail COD widow. The whole is The wire they're watching every single episodes, something we conceived before. Everything that you in the last ten weeks, and we thought we could do it and Superpower do not zoom in its work it out. Well, your back in the world with your old friend from the wire what's had been laid to relive the shop it? Yet it's been amazing, like first of all, is made me understand. Just how old are you Like when you re watch something net, you re for the first time that you wash just aid for the first time when you are like twenty three and twenty four, and they go back and you do the relaunch of forty. You find yourself get them all
things that you didn't care about things you you look at characters. Definitely like of stop that you thought was cool. Maisie. Now you look it real ways that live in the real Socio Egon. That kind of situation is going on in a wire gives you. You have like a much better sort of vantage point to approve shape. The show when you have a little age on you causes that is about cops versus gangs. Is about all these other mechanisms, and it's a little fire to me that it truly is. The finest television has ever been made. I'd I did I've that last summer, which was when I started to get really passionate about us, do in a pot about it, and I watched the sopranos right before it. Those are the they too have gone back and really oh then, and I others there's some other runs like mad man. Breakin bad lost is one. I keep hearing about game thrones of that night. I already did that before the last season.
And I don't know what it is about the wire, but it reminded me a lot of the sopranos and that I was so happy to be with my old friends. Again people that I just cared about and light and were in my life and the show was over. They were gone and in its up than them, wife always talks about when she has these friends that she loves? from. These shows that she doesn't know there and their fictional characters, and then you If there are going like forgot. How much I missed Elsie from the hills like bright just it Bobby This these people in its spoken we're the wire weirder, because it's it's not real people, but think out of any show ever my life. It had the most people that I just kind of mist seeing on a tv screen, did you miss the most when you re watching and who are you relax, my god, I forgot how much I loved pursued x. I taught them. A little bit resolute manner, but body
lying like it was body for me. May I like, like disk, I see in the way body came up in my everyday it back here to represent it again. Now the fool sort of The whole bob lacks all the ramifications. If you were a by his care, too, are just going back like when I thought at first was only in a young boy comes into play on as the homey man he's doin. Ok, I, like you, said at the beginning of it. These are gonna, be W. Nowhere stuff is, haven't you know, we're gonna go with just the right is almost like. Somebody's cared is that you watch me their demise they give reincarnated every single time you watch the shell right dealt that way so like watching their character. How exist was West, Baltimore, Jumanji, so much the people I grew up with, but his bogeyman ass, my favorite here too, a wire history. They want your favorite character to be Elba s very clear that Simon Burns want
El bars, the hero of the wire, but my favorite cared about fires. Bony. No and it's funny with the reward experience at some distance and since the bars on Russell Westbrook shows up and really looks like Bodiam, carries himself a little like him too, and he gets the nickname body. But then you think like, as we watch West entire career The personalities or similar leg boat, one of the only characters in the wire. Who literally, does that change for five four five these are whenever he finally spoiler EDA Ediths bake it to the last upset, but he D, stays fundamentally who he is from day one and I feel like Westbrook was like that would enjoy the ba. I don't feel accused aimed at all, since he got into the wagon anyway, he is, who is? That's it you're, going Well, he's gotten better I haven't gotten better, I'm saying as it as a character as a teammate as a person would he cares about he's, never had
stage. Where he's I came here Brussels watching this production company he's gonna, be vaguely back vanderdyke, he's, the kind of seems seems cause he's got his family. He plays basketball. He like imagine that there that's it. There's any, doesn't really care what you think either is that out? There is never a media strategists, you just gotta. Do this thing: it bodies like on the show where his dislike his life's, that change as ever it else around him allergic. Is America, that's sort of the tragic sort of arm characteristic of body. They did the the tragic characteristics Is that why everyone else, the sort of losing all of these truths about the game in the real about what we happy around them. He stays entrenched ass, a soldier,
and believes it to the very end. The only thing that could convince bode that Kim soldier it up and keeping his nose clean and doing exactly what I told of him is not going to work. The only thing that convinces him of that being the path to his greatness is death. That's the only thing that can visit him of that other than that. Even laments that he says listen. Now, I've fucked up account never been late, never done this never did, and he still in the same spot it took. Does the identical remove him from the reality was Baltimore you? about the whole thing, either the first or second He did what are their early once about, as it's even the show and the two guys who are basically doing our workers and their making a specific effort. Not to make this a quorum coalblack show it's a show that has a lot of peep
most, who happen to be black, but it's not it's never attempting be a black show, which I think was one of the cool things about All the nuances are in there, but it's almost like advance beyond the point of you know what I think, people of may be thought it was on paper. How does it show go had in the wrong hands. What are their mistakes? Somebody could have made if they weren't approaching it that way to deify somebody, so one of the major things that the wire doesn't do is it doesn't deify anyway, you get a three hundred and sixty panoramic view of every single character. Right you don't have a situation where you have incorruptible police officers. Who would never do anything could never do anything wrong or never thought somebody bus, had you don't have robber Baron sort of joy dealers who are deep. There really have hearts of goal, but they just been corrupted by system. That's exploded neighborhood! You don't have any other arm. I watch a lot a crash course world history,
the job. Creating those gotta love that, and he often talks about in the midst. What he's doing these crass courses about how in Latin in history classes everywhere? people they resort to great man, history, light they talk about light gray. Man who done these great things and they refuse to acknowledge the systems that help these guys do what they did like say. Something like Edison invented the lightbulb know: Edison was the head of a team of people who invented the who invented the light bulb or its current or whatever it was and like. When you look at history and systems and not terms of just this guy came along and changed everything. It changes your perspective of who's, going who's back the wire does that inherently it inherently looked at system in divorces itself, away from who's, the good person who's, the bad person and a lot of times in society and in the shows we have a ten
to look at things, because we want a villain right. We want a better. We can his aunt we need data shows we need data wind with. We need someone who is just doing something for their own reasons. In his bags, gonna hurt people and kill people. We want to stop them and because the wire never gets into that a lot of things that we get hung up on in society. The show never gets hung up on them because they just aspects of society and not the end, Bob relax. These people are in the position that they are in a worse Baltimore, partly because their black, partly because they are poor, partly because industry and capitalism has forgotten him. But it's not one specific thing that leads them to them and the cops its partly because they want to stamp out drugs. Did they do? They Buzz, partly because they want to make rank and is partly because they have all of their own interests at heart, so because nobody gets deify it's hard to hate. Anyway, with that said. Who is the worst person on the wire cause? I actually have a nominee, you do the wars, person
on the wider world person, underwear, single, worse person who requested like not redeem What all? Ah? It's Rawls or visa back a hazy he's back from sees a to Z. The low scrawny do with big painters, zig backer, Hale Cassandra, but he's just more tragic. Really the worst person is probably wrong. It's probably was, I think it is the crook tat summer crooked, the black guy, who jugular it's fucking with everybody in the later on and like the forces in the fifties and he's medicine with the kids, I can't remember his name, o thou. Finally, I think his name is don't tell me now actually write. That guy has no redeeming cloud. Is at our he's just evil man's fingers officer a row. He gets the ring taken from when the ring-
megan his round here, of having a ring. All think they bade. They name, it is good to drive me now. They name because its other by how much was a bit, will how much of it Finally, as you know, he's pretty bad microphones, gets all revenge on, but that's it that's all they had in the show. Where was like, there's no black with this guy. He is he's just evil. That's it! There's no No other things going on. Gonna hate speak of deify. In great man, stuff and all those things I know you ve been watching the Michael Jordan fact. Better course. You, like there's, been some of that with the documentary there's been some great, hey geography stuff or do you feel like its ban? An even balance has actually think it's been about his even you can get considering their relying on the man to do interviews and to basically bless it. If the I'm blasted they're not doing it now, I think has been pretty big- has been pretty look. I think Michael's Gaza gone the Gaza places to talk about some things that
He really had got into. It is impossible not to indulge in a great many everyone, you're Talkin about Michael, join, just because he's so fucking great. Ah, but now I think the last episode in particular is the one where I feel like it gave you the last couple episodes where I gave you the disorder, the full especial look at him, because you could tell in that episode that they didn't like him and nobody pulled any pushes the say. Listen when other like now was he and ass all? Was he a jerk? Was he horror,
like the last couple episodes of the ones I just ran, they make Michael Jordan. Look like you see the price that he has to pay in order to be who he was. It meant that MIKE Michael Jordan, look that make him look bad. A little bit and when she cries that's a very important moment in the documentary, because I went outside Michael when he was crying he's like that's cuz, you never want anything. If you like break. I think in that moment he realized exactly how much he sacrificed to be sitting in that chair do what he did. He sacrifice a lot of meaningful relationship with people for a long time. He sacrifice all those fuzzy memories. Like that, hit him so hard, because he realized that, even though it seems like to us that Michael what has it all in order for him to be Michael George He really did have to give up a lot. He had in a typical sort of twenties and thirty's
in terms of building last relationships with people. It taught us his his family all events that stuff and when he went when you saw him get emotional, is because listen. He say, and I gave all that to be the greatest winner in a history of basque boss. I know I don't think that they ve got too much less, and I can understand that the criticism of doing our committee on somebody and having them have final cut on it. I get that, but I think they're doing a hell of a job with it and I think has been a very fair portrayal of matches, Michael, but everybody that was abominable. That better use made a key point that I think people messed with the cry of pain. I took it the same way as you, and I thought I pretty obvious, but I don't think it was because I think people misinterpreted in couples from his tongue. To me, it was all about when he gave up with the family and if you notice, we seen aid episodes now his family's that mentioned at all Not having in it,
it's not about not even the sun sets. No, that was the drinking documentary. This was able than not they haven't I've. Given you know it now you saw there's been a couple shots at him like practicing with them and their younger you don't obviously got divorced, I think date they were, they ve been really careful about, not act now, singer mentioning his Ex wife at all, even when they showed in the episodes on Sunday. You could see that when he does the press conference on his retiring before he plays baseball in that dream and there's all these people their necks. They go on down the line and they show rides or for Jerry, crass Vill Jackson, but he's sitting to his wife and theirs wide shots where you could see her for a split second, but it's basically like she was there, and I think you know they say when they're talking about the baseball stuff he's playing baseball is he's heading three. A day there have the game is here tonight? It's obviously, he wasn't really involved with his kids that my
at all. I don't know what the with the bounds was, but I dont think you He was around that I'm sure he probably regrets at a little bit now side to give the same way as you did. He probably missed a huge chunk of of his kids childhoods and all that stuff too. Pursue this obsession there sit down. You start to relive these things, and you start to you know: there's a price man. You know it's like. If people talked about the comparisons between Michael Jordan and Lebron James, the one thing that you can say about it. Obviously I think that this documentary is putting some even more space between Michael Jordan, Lebron James. I mean it's just like All of this stuff was happening with Jordan at his peak. When I was especially the last I was when I was in high school, so obviously I have a sense of how great Michael Jordan was, but when you see the level to which she
really dominated the gay, the level to which, when they were all tat, nobody was really gonna get at them, and you see that there's something separate him and looked elaborate, but I will say this though, The broad has a loving family he has. All the adulation from everyone. Politically, he has a socially. He has the he's like a thick combat, almost in a way that almost a separate sphere of greatness that he has, and it tells you that, for whatever reason, maybe because Leubronn, maybe because Jordan had that growing up that type of ideal it family life and the broad never had it, then it was nothing. Le Brow was willing to sacrifice. He wasn't really willing to sacrifice that for greatness. Was a willing to sacrifice, haven't all these friends and stuff like that, until he wasn't really the sacrifice that Jordan I was set.
Nature to him. He had a great relation. With this day, I have felt ass, a family support of mom, all that stuff like that, so it was time for him to build. These are my job and in a bank was mine I'm saying there was some things that were second nature to him, that you want to go beyond some other days for the broad you see the difference between the two guys, so I think when the brine, you look back and you see maybe not as great a basketball player will probably more fully Ford Human, be ah they that cannot that that's important to note well also pulls it off with a background that a hundred times worse than were Jordan, had to do it right and at which it that's, like the really crazy thing about the position, the bronze at in his life. Now, as are the obstacles in other ways, it could have gone wrong, whereas Jordan, you know tat to have
a pretty normal family to have older brothers and a really loving pay it's that came to his games and things like that. You know how that stuff, that can matter in certain cases. You know that figure him it's always been where to me how tight he was with his dad, but then you were there. Hear stories about him have in that same kind of closest with the sun's baby had it I don't know, but I I took this way as you that the tears seem. May about like. I wonder if this was worth it or some telling him that it wasn't worth it, but him still feeling like it was maybe like scars from matter something really. The moment, though I think fur, where ethical, the ways the stock had gone wrong here could have been like you're, not using that you're gonna. Take that out. I dont like that part
and they would add, take it out. I think I I don't. I don't final cut of the dark, but I certainly think he had veto power over certain things in it and out. A final cut, but it's his footage right. So without his sign off, it's not going up at all- and you know you d better to Jason about this, but at all I'm under the assumption that there's not much in the documentary. I really dont know about away on dad. I'm uh there's something that does not Much in a document agreed that Michael, wouldn't want to be in a document. Arms are out of your final cut of it. But look you know it goes back to something it is caught up in about is a luxury to have two events to overcome, fell the broad and have to invent not an offer up above. If I were broad, didn't have the you didn't have to say you don't have to think up stuff to overcome. He was right there Sixteen year old, single parent home, at that
the whole night there was not a yet the event to overcome eating Your slighted, you didn't have to live, not made the freshmen team. Everything was all right. They're, all the hardships and all the things were right to do so for Jordan, while its also its remarkable that he able to continuously motivate himself throughout the years by inventing things overcome. Its also shows you that, as on point, these we're gonna go for my dear you hate whatsoever, the quarantine where MID may now, For college football to happen, realistically, you gotta get that should together problem, I got early August that the waiters gotta get kids on campus practicing all that stuff out of their debts. Realistic for a mile Louisiana where I would say top five state. For by matters the most may be top sex right. What's the Tabs Ex Texas is one. Tat, they were now the Florida floored at his taxes
I Louisiana Florida after that all Oklahoma Obama's Edwin yeah. You are in the top seven or eight year what what happens to this? I gave Louisiana beyond all the other shit. That's already going on. If we don't have football, this sure it's weird, I fear I fear what people are to do with their Saturday's. Listen, it doesn't even obviously L issues coming off the greatest we ve never had by leaps and bounds But that's not what we're talking about we're talking about how not having college football effects. That Route South Louisiana mentally economically and culturally. Air is so stupid. Man, no p. You are gonna. Listen event van is mere hyperbolic. No, it's a big fucking deal. It's a huge deal understand people.
Is the biggest part of their year. This is the biggest part of a lot of people's existence, their people that can give you everybody out of the recruiting class from nineteen seventy six and this, and the forgot like that that that all that can do This is the only thing in their life yeah follow this they following kids when in the eighth grade and seventh grade were giving looks and were given all it is that they're going to sign in day job liar parties and stuff, like that. So I made they build their lives or outside a morning, and even if there are even if there are even if they do play with no fans right, the culture is still completely shifted because different, tailgating there's no address the wheat. Let the business gathering in bars to watch it by. We can't go to the chimes or to the silver more cafe or to some so be put to the vote.
City are all of these different or walk on down there. Any of the games or anything like my cat, has a needles, places and watch any of the games, like that's going to have a significant effect on how people like are getting through this. Now that doesn't mean it. You run back and you do something as unsafe, automation yet the taxpayer holes nearly a hundred thousand people. That's a lot of people to get together to have one or two people, or even three people cannot be sick, I bet there are huge citywide outbreak, but it would be nice if they could figure out something. That's what what's the matter sounds like these days does. I would imagine you always hear about the places that guy? Lot of tourist traffic have obviously been estimated the last three months New Orleans I would say, is a top for american city for people.
Coming outside of New Orleans into normal and suspend weak any about these different events thinks that we're just what's it like there like a Thursday. What's it like that right now? Alright, now zombies, nobody out his think it goes down like a ass from what it yeah from what I am from that down Anti Semitism send me one should. I is really should be more shocking and eighty you ever seen. Was it it on. My instagram is of a completely clean, bourbon street, which should tell you live like a completely clean, bourbon street, a clean Burma she's like a clean, Charlie, sheen radios, like that you're not supposed to be able to have that like a clean, bourbon street and did not even there, economics matter a lot to the city in terms of tourism, but they also just like to throw a party em. What does it mean when you can't do what it is. It's been in your dna, four hundred fifty or two hundred years that starts to mess with people so obviously
people go without jobs is gonna, always be tough, but also when New Orleans, meanwhile, as when they can get loose when fill a cooped up. It is it's a concern, but The first thing we want to do is South Louisiana, especially in a place. I knew all about rules while from So many presents conditions you wanna keep people alive and then, if we gotta put a pin and come back and really get lab, and twenty twenty one that will have to happen. I remember We were talking when this whole thing was breaking and you are really scared for what was gonna happen, a Louisiana because you just felt like the region is just to social into wired, for people to be around each other and that the whole concept of just idle stand or stay away from each other? Just wasn't set not the dna of Louisiana do feel better about it. Now, as we added to my three. Ah, yes, and no, I feel better that people have an understanding about how soon
This was because of the havoc that a rod when it first kind of swept through the the sudden have an estate. So I feel better that people are taking it seriously. I wonder about the long term, the long term, sustainability of a shut down there or stay at home then, and it's hard for a lot of like it's a gathering state that we gather just to eat like I could be a Louisiana right now and I'm like arm or I'm on a man and play a man before you know it is twenty people in my house and we going through Punch Popeye's everywhere. We did your enemy, we just get together alot, even though we have hurricanes we have Hurricanes Hurricane Party Louisiana. The thing is not in so much of a party as it is a hurricanes coming, no one wants to go through it alone. So hey the hurricanes he had not Tuesday were
all going to one place and it's gonna be x amount of Us, India, while we will have no lights, went to war. He cut off all these days, but we ve pulled together our resources. We pull together our collective spirit and we're gonna make it through this together. What the virus is asking Louisiana to do is make it through a part which I've never seen. Try to my home state before so what I am concerned about is just the long term damage, like I said, not just economically, but to despair, but we gotta go through it. We gotta we got figure out, candy wastes. Can a cat. What else have you noticed during these last ten weeks cause you you're an observer? You your watch, it things here, look at it your observing the culture of staff are different types of things. What it would have It is what is alarmed you, ah,
I've noticed is something has been very comforting. Is that everybody is actually ugly we're all ugly like people thought they look good, then all the good bill by every. If, if, if you break it down, ok, I'm a Russia picture of us all. So they were. I Reynolds Mouselike. Oh my god! That's why you look like you're like everything shut down. Baby. We all ugly everybody come join, come join into the regular looking groups May I see your now and I'm not here the about it, but about the amount about gloating, but I have to admit is nice that everyone can see that we're all just human beings with faces in it that's been issues in the kind of sea dishevelled. John HAM, you're gonna need by just see I use it. That's a bad example. He usually is dishevelled. Here several weeks there, but would you would you say that it is not
he's not quite Dodd Draper right now, all right the more we like. Oh so, we don't have this many blonde actresses and celebrities maybe house I don't know, I guess that everybody was born. A blood is one I ever knew. I was bored obliged, not everybody's beer, like you always lucky boy made out his beard is not going great, is going great yeah Beijing was keeping guys looking youthful? What would you say, some of them, are really gray and a look now, they to look like somebody's uncle. Dad oh Grandpapa, does me good. Also, I, like I'm, always impressed with one thing with human beings, with their ability to adapt Like I don't know how long we can adapt in the way that things are going right now and I have my reservations about it, but I like seeing people get together. So if you would have told me in March
that we were going to not be leaving the house for ten weeks and we were not going to be going to bars for ten weeks and there's going to be no Disneyland, no NBA, all of that, and that there would be some semblance of normalcy. I would have said ten weeks is way too long fat butt. And and I'm hearing here, and it might be another ten la but but so far, so ok, what announced today they're gonna open some beaches here. The really are the beaches, but with with restrictions but who knows- and I think. I think one thing I underestimated. You know because I think we are all worried about a splash outward about my kids. Worry you start energy this world as we hit the two thousand tonnes now in its does twenties that you can do everything without other people in the room you can order food, you can, you could have sex, you can watch tv
you could read movies. You could literally that leave your has severely want to, and that was always. I got a man that would suck man. I hope hope this next generation gonna be social. I hope they're gonna people skills, I hope, instead of having like sure thing I I hope there go out and hang out with people and have experiences and not just do everything visually This is just old guy, be talking, I think, what learn the last ten weeks. Is that people really bis hanging out in? being in the same room with people like you. You've you've got some social distancing, hangs effort for through the grapevine yeah I have turns out. We can be candidates being over those people which makes me happy, because I was generally concern twenty years Nobody was ever get interact at all, but now I think we're learning that is part of our they wanna be with other people, so people. So thank you're right, like look
I lied before it is happening. We had so much the more on that I was. I am a focused mode. Amigo to any bores any clothes. I'm writing a failure so far without a lot of stuff about the duality stuff. It would just be sometimes you go someplace, especially here and allay arm. You go someplace in just the army, ass of a bunch of people, chattering about the most vapid, in separate you just you just hear stuff and his life. It's because I can't you just hear a Mamma second draft and if they don't by it already Bob. Why I'm that I miss the stupid background. Conversations at the Soho House Amiss seeing random sitcom stars nineteen. Ninety seven that I haven't seen in a long time holding court at places with people
trying to be them? I just dismiss so many parts of delay that I thought were the annoying parts of ITALY. Now they're gone, and I want hear every week. We certainly that's how we became more were friendly word. We would at about at the some of those parties that I never to go to those, but I sometimes end up at him. And you really own end up wanting to talk to like three people, and they said you end up grabbing those people and trying to get in the corner and then hoping nobody else joystick. The exact bothering you just do anywhere. We rightly the girl Party for us to help out but it is funny I dab in the same way I do. I am more nostalgic for things that I thought it a leg you know like here. I, I was within their borders. Are they wish disorder which distort referred? Where why we gotta rest right now, but I found out, I wish we can cut of restaurant I would be great. I wish I could go and sit down in the wars.
As for, let us even matter the quality of it. Just the experience of talking of getting bread brought to a table just before it is all started. Oh dear colleague, I got to the to the Cheesecake factory over there in an hour in Glinda, I tell you if I would have no, that that was the last time I will be ear: restaurant for a long time How much bigger deal about that? If I'd out of known That was the last restaurant than ours. Be aid for two three, four: five, who knows how many months I'm added, totally different light the whole they would have been totally different. Maybe the girl did she say at Geneva, mash doses of them, I bet, but that literally was I paid the Tuesday reform should everyday DOW was my last restaurant experience why
We're going to a copper, Blazer game. I took my son. There was a nice game started late. The game suck Last minute. I think a wide decided at the play Blazers Kay they're just shoot threes every time, clear position, Three, as is three point out this there's no energy in the crowded. On my son's tired, I could tell we get food at half time we're sit there. A quarter of em look at random and I know he just does want to be there and I make you wanna go and he's like yeah this suck, my gear. Let's go this way just watch the fourth quarter on tv, be the same experience, so we went home and now I think like if we're at that might be so fired up to be a basketball game like second, go at a time machine and go back we're fucking staying right lab.
Ask around other people, you're gonna, wake up I'll, get you a soda, and you know so. I think stuff right that I was taken stuff especially lie basketball for granted. Now it now, I was not taken anything for granted, so out of our literally pay, for hundred dollars to watch. The defenders play the San Jose. That the Irish or whatever they were the Lakers practice. Vassili literally our well have you thought about what happens when everybody is allowed to hang out again together how many bad mistakes are due to be bed like worth what what? What is the next catch fella where it cycles are good. That's have could shallow again what kind disasters that gonna be like. I just think about Nephew Kyle, producing this park ass right now and when we had when everybody is like
Scared, you could be normal, get I'm really concerned about his first forty eight hours back caitive. Imagine what could shallow would be like everybody let loose going way- oh my god ha way He too, like p essays, yeah, listen guys like don't do all the recreational drugs that you can do it like us light. Fiercely pace yourselves a little bit with the drink, but look I will be real like is, is almost kin to appoint aware like when I first started, I was sort of draconian. All people would have us out anyone. There was a guy, but I know that lives here. My Parma complex that huh, like it like that Fridays. So the NBA. Close out that Wednesday right it's so that Friday he is be happy, goes YO,
we have a party over at the crib. Like me, they have drink it has got behalf aunt Atossa there and I was so pissed off I was like. Are you crazy? We got elderly people to live in this building. How could you bring It is up to a point now to where I still would never, go to anything like that and would really look down on anyone that that that would, or and judge them all these people that flat out these crowds. But in the same breath I understand people's desperation to get back to normal. I don't excuse it and I don't and I think that they're making bad decisions not just for their personal health before the hell, tar communities, but I can't stand in judgment of people who are really have in our time. With this
but here any anymore, because it's been such a long time and is nowhere for them to escape. There's no place for a good to go where this isn't happening. You know, there's nothing. You can like you know we had not eleven. It did that same the next week. There was football in baseball and stuff. I do not have that. It's a light. You can't even like come back in step away from, it is nowhere to go and Sonya people are trying to find the escape they can it sucks it some of those involved, Megan bad decisions one of those escapes can be the wire which you can stream Amazon, HBO, where into season two on the park cast. Which I know you have a lot of feelings on a macro- spoil that I I encourage you to put a listen to
we're on the home. I'm really proud of this package. I think it's really get, I'm glad we did it and I think it will have a ten year tail as more and more people, discover the shock. As I know, you know, as well we get a year other, but somebody else gets a year other who now becomes in the range of somebody who had enjoyed the show, and this Time aside, the I think it's gonna last it'll, probably twenty five thirty years before it will really feel dated some. Deeper staff of shared here like exceeding the fact is that pay phone yeah how's? Why don't we just check whether they distract their cell phones? They arise as a luxury I get to the raw say you away down the hall, and then we have another project were developing. That who knows. Who knows, maybe not using sooner than people thought that you by rival out more vein in your life pretty soon yeah Bill Bill said at best we had a meeting about it. As I really do. Both things move us, oh yeah, we're not!
which will work. Yeah I've excited its bent forward here then good to see it thanks for coming, I'm a I'd thanks to cornered thanks to ban thanks to zip recruiter, and if you miss the reward chapels with crimson tied this week, and we have another one coming later in the week, in its draft day with me and now they ribbon another episode of our flawed rewatchable series. That's that's. Coming to undeniable Morpheus Bacchus later this week until then,.
Transcript generated on 2020-06-02.