« The Bill Simmons Podcast

The NBA’s Vaccine Battle, 20 Years of ‘PTI,’ and Billy Crudup | With Derek Thompson and Bryan Curtis

2021-09-29

The Ringer's Bill Simmons is joined by Bryan Curtis and The Atlantic's Derek Thompson to discuss NBA media day and vaccine hesitancy among some NBA players. They discuss how certain local mandates can prevent unvaccinated players from playing, the NBA and NBPA, media coverage of the pandemic, and more (3:20). Then Bill and Bryan Curtis discuss the upcoming 20th anniversary of ESPN’s ‘Pardon the Interruption,’ how ‘PTI’ revolutionized the argument show, and the importance of on-air chemistry (36:05). Finally Bill talks with actor Billy Crudup about his career, including training for his portrayal of long-distance runner Steve Prefontaine in ‘Without Limits,’ becoming a rock star for ‘Almost Famous,’ as well as his character in the AppleTV+ show ‘The Morning Show’ (57:30).

Host: Bill Simmons

Guests: Billy Crudup, Bryan Curtis, and Derek Thompson

Producer: Kyle Crichton

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This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Let's have everybody. I'm J, J, J G stamps Economic Jason Gough it. If you have an earth, a ringer has gone local operating in the fire on bringing arraign from the big apple with. I shall me I feel, and I reckon shots I with my new, showed a full go and all things Chicago if we ve got a facade strain I'd so weak with all the reaction at a local teams in gas was Mona. Cept soldier on all the beginnings of story wants to whether Europe turned down town in the firms are a transplant, make sure you follow. New York, New York and the full go on spot apply wherever you get your projects. This episode is broadly by Directv Stream, introducing Directv Street the best alive to be not demand, which means you can watch your favorite sportsmen, then shows on one place or whether you can catch game live or watch Ladys bought bustard. They got you covered and no annual contract. Directv stream get your tv together at Directv. Dotcom compatible device required content varies by package. Russia brought you buy Fernando Sports, but
where you can play the bad quarterback league and you put millions- are packs both really fun and were brought in by the ringer package. That work. Where hope you listen to the foregoing, Jason gaff and near near with John G Straps, geared to new local pie cast as well as the Prestige TV, PA gas, which we kind of relaunch, and having a lot of fun with that is the Sopranos Hall of Fame episode on their last week. Recapped first and second episodes of the morning show which has the most ridiculous show about time and Amanda Dobbins had something on there. On Monday, David Shoemaker, and I are you to be talked about the season for I've heels. A stars wrestling show the way of thou, be next Monday, but we have a bunch of stuff on there. Billions TED Lasso succession coming up on their so check that the prestige tv podcast coming up there.
Thompson from the Atlantic, and Brian Curtis from the ringer wouldn't be talking about the NBA and vaccines and media day and players. Thou want a vaccinated. as is gonna go, and how does it? Tyrants, everything that happened? This country, their brains stay onwards onward, but twenty years apart the interruption and then finally, are my favorite actors. Billy crude up No it's been fifteen years on how he has been, but are we talked about the morning shell and are them This is made, including he made a movie cod, almost famous, which, on that I've ever met on this package other than the children additives are mentioned, but. his lot almost famous type, but this is the it's a really get anyway. This is really a past sprang up
were taken. There is one very specific timeframe: Kurdistan ringers here deck of the Atlantic is here both of them a bet on this package ass a couple times over the last few months. This NBA seen story. I was totally fascinated by yesterday and how a media day which is normally what are the dumbest days at the everybody, pretends they. But their new team. They loved their new courage, Toby. be that as fair trade, easier basque bar related stuff and somehow became this weird proxy of what's happening in America and all the others that they came out of. It was back
related Derek. I asked you to go, read up on it and cattle or what happened yesterday today. What the league is going to be dealing with going forward is that it can be the dominant issued this year. What was your big take way? Reading all the stuff? Well, you're a great in the NBA relative to the rest scenario, even give it anymore like the vaccination in the NBA, is much higher than the vaccination rate of United States writ large I'd be and is trying to reach a hundred percent, and it is at this point it looks like it coming I'm going to get there, you have a lot of really loud, outspoken hold. it's very vocal minority with our european Jonathan Isaac. Are you really gets me about the reasons that they get? You always hear about this issue, a personal choice and privacy
and in the big picture I have a lot of sympathy for personal choice and privacy. I want people to her privacy, their lives, I'm here for the argument that our athletes deserve more privacy in their given. But you know it's just ironic getting with regard to athletes in this respect, because you know these are people whose birthdays we know whose heights we know, was injury stream. We know we profiles that relationship with their mother. We know we may get sick, we know when they have an injury or a surgery. We know the doktor who perform their surgeries. We know all of those private details and none of those details have anything to do with the contagion. It's impossible. The Chechen minister from a friend it's impossible to have indoor transmission of ACL springs, so I people like Tiree in particular, are drawing the line of privacy at the very place where our individual decisions stop being fully private and start having these very dramatic public,
consequences, and yet you here over and over again the privatisation of private decision. I would like someone to respond to them if they the ability to in that in the press room. He might feel private you, but it doesnt your private, your family, it doesnt your private, too trainer, who is NATO compromise? Doesn't your private to your coach, who has a son who is asthma, the innocent nature of pandemics, two on privatized, our personal decisions and connect us in this web of contagion? And that is the should. I think keeps getting this Brian. Have you cover this? Will review like the beat reporter of Tea MAX had even handle this in what happens if you're a beat reporter for Tee MAX her calmness or local radios than you ve been on Twitter your shower in your coms, excoriated people for knock any vaccinated, and now this is somebody if the cover for eleven first of all, a second I thought that this is the most interesting and be a media day ever having gone to the
Lakers won a couple years ago, and I saw a well known basketball report fighting the Lakers players them. Where am I what what is happening here so least it had a little drama was David Letterman I'd standing up and ask questions the Katy now you know to me I'll tell you what I would cover about this, and I think, is actually just as interesting as key area in the players who have opted out is talking to Kevin Durrant and talking to staff curry in golden state and saying how do you handle this because we're always so fascinated by the diner, lakes within a team and listening to the very careful way the Katy was talking about this yesterday and staff was talking about this yesterday, really reminder me of very personal converse, regions within my own family. Where you're like I love, you really
If I really love you, I really want you to be at this important event, but it's also really important to me that you need to be vaccinated and its important, my kids and an end to other people in the family and those are incredibly tough tricky conversations that have you wanna having the right way in the way I heard those guys measuring their words on like oh well, it is a really high profile version of the exact same conversation. Won't you talkin about leadership of players, leadership of coaches, leadership of a front office. The owners there's this whole infrastructure in place to kind of nudge people to adhere to the court of Protein and in football you have fifty three pairs. It's a little easier. If you have a couple people that maybe I've fallen the herd, but in this case fifteen pyres per team, if one of the stars of the team is she's basically out for other home games, that's a mass of disadvantage. Sea have that you also have
really competitive wants to win a title is the best player in the team came to Brooklyn built this whole thing now it's being endangered by this other teammates that he has to be brought with them so Derek. I think one of the fascinating things for me is the NBA for seventy five years, we're hitting its 75th year this week over and again as being able to reflect whatever is going on in America in a really unique way to the league. You know that are, I grew up. Baseball's american pastime in a lot of ways it feels like the NBA has become more of America's pastime, in that it reflects America during George everything that happened last summer. The NBA was the crucial league for four that right, when you think, when you go back to play power met when you go back to hip hop culture and how hip hop culture was becoming the dominant pop culture in the nineties and it was reflected through the NBA, go back to Bill Russell in the sixties and he's on the front
with our lean civil rights on the step over again. The NBA is there and it is it weird to think that the idea is now at the forefront of this, because the profile of the stars that there I think that's exactly what it is. I think about the profiles discharged they have. You could say that in a way this is the flip side of player empowerment, On the one hand, what is their apparent give you? It allows individual players, voices on issues like social justice, black lives matter to be amplified, but it also me is that the voices of Cairo Irving, Jonathan Isaac are also emphasise, and so were now hearing in very public ways, reasons for not accepting this vaccine, which in some cases we should have no family members are or friends of ours. You don't really want to talk about their decisions. Those decisions are that rationality might be be. Hidden from us will now is hidden from us at all, because a fair empowerment,
them talking the median saying it, I'm not going to take us back saying I'm not going to tell you why, because I think this is an entirely private decision. I really think that this is the flip side of the coin of pleasure in parliament. If you give people the ability, I think to essentially have their opinions being broadcast really really loudly across the country to reflect the ethos is, I touched, the country you're gonna, get a good with the bad you're going to get back this matter. You gonna get social justice. You're gonna get people talking about systemic racism. Your also going to get bashing hesitancy you'd here, you're, just gonna, get all bright, didn't feel like to fight the NBA Canna. Wasn't prepare for this. That it didn't coming as I keep you know they came out today. They did today what I thought they're going to do before media day, which is basically to call out the players, association and say hey
we won't ever vaccinated the Prayers association. Eight, they be, they push back the NBA Epa date. They wouldn't play ball in it. go in there and that's it. That's where we are. I can't help but think what would happen if David Stern was the commissioner not first milestone would have loved this, the sort of Ben you know his his way of just he would have taken centre stage. She would have me turn this into a big theater, but as I think he would have been really hard about this stuff and I think he would have said: hey you're not vaccinated you're, not getting paid. That's like we don't care if we come to a deal dystocia or not, and he probably would have made this worse. Adam sober seems like he is being more careful and more inclusive, and but it also didn't solve anything and now we're at this point where season's going to start a three and a half weeks, and it doesn't seem like anyone has any idea how this is going to play out. I feel like they should have a better idea
yeah it sounds like they ran into the union issue, we tried it. We have to collectively bargaining. We couldn't get anywhere with that, so we stopped, and then I think, if you, the league, you're, probably thinking what, if social pressure on team solve this problem for us, because we saw this right went based, walking back last summer, early on in the pandemic and a lot of baseball players. Writer, saying hey, don't go out tonight, because we need you to come back to the hotel room and do nothing so that we can be healthy and will have all of our players available and it solves some problems. It didn't solve all problem, then we got the football season and I think social pressure within these teams has convinced some players to get back to me, but hasn't given to everybody to get back soon and I think I'd get feels like the NBA is saying: we've done all we can bargaining wise now we're going to hope that there could be this person to person conversation saying hating. You may not want to do this, but we need you. We just my basketball point of view. We need you to be available to play.
So for that's about how far they got. Will the NFL went a lot further and there if the last time he came out without by that the NFL not surprising good thou, who am not a fan of at all, but He was a hard ass about it. Is that hey, you guys have Jeff outbreaks you're going to forfeit games you're going to lose paychecks here, all the bad things that happened Adam Silver has not operated that way and that's why he's been a more popular commissioner, I think they then Rodger Goodell. At the same time, it kind of feels like the situation, do the Rodger Goodell strategy of I do not care about the players weed. This is a business we are going to protect our business at all cost. You know the NBA is a business and if they have guys that just aren't going to get vaccinated- and you are-
very, very player friendly. Commissioner. Where does that leave us that it is not good to be mandated? If it's not going to be like saying a Duke University University Florida, the places where you know Irene, gradual, came from Bay, they mandate immunization demanded immunizations very happy in the area and tetanus? Maybe I can't do that in large part because of its union so You lose the ability to mandate and you don't have essentially a cesarean commissioner, like Rodger Goodell the space they going to say I don't care what decision to make I'm going to force you to get vaccinated without actually having a man today, because it's going to be so easy to essentially require you to work. The game in case today, there are based on the team. Without that, all you have, I think, is what Brion said. You have social pressure. I that's that's. Basically it you have social pressure from within the team, and then you have local policy to local policy as a huge deal.
for the rest, the nets, because I dont believe that Cairo Irving legally, has the ability to what would I think, bought into birthday censure. I dont think he can enter the building, so I dont know how he's going to file for any kind of exemption to be able to play games nervously. The matter now can be thrilled about having a start by undertaking can play and have for their games suits me. I only seat you Avenues year, social pressure from within the team from inessential either the corporate family. That is a team that the same conversations that millions of families of had between the cousins in bed nets using the fathers and children not please give accidents the family, peace and think about the broader community. You're gonna have that and then the Eurostar Gonna have the additional pressure in some cities that have made it mandatory for people to walk into the building to have it backs nation. Her, I feel a career being is not going to play the season and I don't say that
First, take kind of you now. Here's my ears by take come up back. Somebody give by eight after having followed this guy for his career, haven't seen him in Boston for CUP, whereas and just seen in general how we handle things need here. He beats through zone dramas, we know, but I feel like keys. He would sacrifice playing to be in control of what he should do with his body. I really think he's gonna grab onto this and make it a thing and that's gonna auto mean he's not gonna play what was interesting. I thought Jonathan Isaac, whether we agree or disagree with them. I thought he was really eloquent with what he said. You know any had put real thought into it, and I think that is the difference between what he said and were Bradley bills. That was Bradley Bill. Just seemed like he was that generic, I just don't, understand vaccines kind of the.
he laid out or, as you said, you could still get cobra view of the very few had vaccine is like Ebay. You almost half way not only of the hospital near almost half way, not dine that supported the vaccine. You might still get covered, but you know with Isaac. It was. It was interesting to hear him talk about, I mean I've already had covered the had the antibodies. I'm a number both shape on physical specimen, and I'm. That way are getting it, but yet he didn't understand the part yeah, but you could still get it and give it to somebody else. Who is that get a shape ear. So is really illuminating. Brian though just maybe a day like hearing all the same kind of misnomer about vaccinations and everything. Are we been hearing for the last? What nine months and now we got to go through some of our favorite basketball players. Also love how the GM talks about it cuz. They all had kind of the same answer or expect
everyone to be available when they rested, are fully expect anyone who fully fully, but I fully expect me, I felt Bob Myers the worthy like I don't wanna talk about. Hypotheticals go. You know, training camps starting right now, so we, the kind of power the hypothetical stage now were in the the stage of actual basketball. So you you're gonna, have to answer while there is there, some other ones like who admitted that guy just got my first shot last week at them get by it was clear leg. You knows user, like somebody, Abby wasn't starter and it is clear that the best and the team or the coach or whoever is thy, hey you're, getting the vaccine, you just you, do it this way. This is not up for discussion anymore. I say how does this play out there in the sense of some other stuff that comes up is that people have deep down, but thinking about right, like you here, especially begone, any conspiracy board what about
we bad reactions to the vaccines. He heard a couple players mentioned that yesterday. I know somebody who had a bad reaction that you here will how come if I get vaccinated. I still get covered, the vaccine does work. How do we or do we educate? ball on the misnomer is in a way that we obviously have done while the last nine months
It's a really really your question. It's really a tucked the answer, but I I I think I might have at the beginning of an answer. So I was reading Jonathan Isaacs quote and it really. It really is remarkable statement, because he is a hundred percent right about ninety percent of the back seat. He set his I'm not inside backs I'm not anti medicine, I'm not anti science. Our understanding of antibodies of national unity is changed. A great deal taking the vaccine. It would decrease my chances of having a serious action, but it does open the, albeit very possibility of having an adverse reactions to the vaccine itself, and quote that is a hundred percent right. It is leave out the final ten percent of It reduces the likelihood that I will transmit this took longer people I want just occurred to me as I am a long time. Mister O Brien spot cast an his criticism and evaluation of postponement of use. What is the most cliche posts game interview answer. Well we're just a team.
Well we're just doing this as a team. Ironically, the most cliche answer is the final ten percent. The Jonathan Isaac needs in his answer is this is not an individual choice. Pandemics, just smash the boundary between individuals is a collective choice that cliche terrible answer gave at half time at the end of games to every rapporteur? Well, I'm doing it for the team were all in this together we acted. The team started individual achievements. That is exactly the perspective that you need about the vaccines. It's not about your less severe reaction alone. It's about the decrease likelihood that you will pass it along to the broader team. Your teammates.
The assistant coaches, their families and friends, and the compromise and elderly people that live amongst them. That's what it's about, and so what I would encourage people to do when they have conversations with people that do seem relatively educated. And this point my Jonathan Isaac is used to just push them toward the sports cliche of the last ten percent. It's not about the individual. It's about the team and the team here is not just those who were the Jersey. If those what the people that, where the Jersey and all the people that they go home to your lives, there are some good courts about that. Yesterday are today Baxter hubs roads a lot. A lot of people run, name that it, but basically either the trainer on team acts that then if I d been ok, my grandparents or about my parents live with us and one of them,
that in great shape, and I dont want to bring home the virus and kill him. You know when, when you hear courts, I die like yeah that that would suck to work for team being a work environment where you don't trust the people around you, and I think this isn't just a sports, then this is a corporation then this is why the ringer hasn't with better office in eighteen months. Basically, its e there's a different level of trust that goes into stop at the NFL. Somehow I have been able to manage it, and it just seems I covered now near two of this has just become part of the injured. Less, that sucker, appalled, hamstring up covered protocol is out. Nba is a much more naked sport and we know these guys way back. There is less poison the team- I don't know- I don't. I honestly don't know where this goes. Bread I dont know what What are the next three weeks? Look like workers through it. Well,
If I'm sending out the NBA long form bad signal right now, it's gonna be what are the conversations light between players on teams and to end it answers your original question of. How do you get people the right information, the best and most convincing you know conversation these people can have is going to be with stiff curry or with Heaven Doran and that it may be, but team ownership or the GM is calling stuff correct sure they ve already done it said: hey. Is there any way you can have this conversation because you're coming from you maybe it's more convincing than us. I wonder I really do want to know what those conversations alike there fascinating again. They do mirror the conversations letting all of us have been having in one way or another, but the enemy is what
the immediate future is like and well knows we get closer, sees no become more interesting. It happen with the Red Sox Chris Sale, as the leader of the team by all accounts said they stem from a pitching standpoint. Is the veteran and most poor guy then miss some games where the crooked The protocol thing and then did Betty was vaccinated, and this is a red Sox team that had a really severe outbreak at the end of August thirty September, and you just watch in this day to day and had psych o who's that shortstop I've never seen that guy Jose Iglesias when we get in and its because geyser just get shuddered at it now cause I've discovered outbreak, and then he said, the widow, the taboos non vaccinated, repellent race, we're trying to get the wild card and everybody is kind of like what the hell's going on. There is the non vaccinated side, which some of the arguments are
ridiculous. My favorite is that the vaccine put something in your arm that allows you to what get tracked by Bill Gates, Sir, but meanwhile somebody, tweeting that their other I found, which is tracking everywhere. You got like, maybe take a bigger look, outwards track you the one thing that I think is a pretty good. Your manners, I garden age are our countries problem. with dieting in just standards, in general, especially during the pandemic and and how many people were at a shape and the kind of foods that we make and soda? in all these terrible things. We do to our bodies and near the other side like. Why do we care about that? Why do we care about this and it just opening up this can of worms of all these things we probably should be talking about, but I wish it was better circumstances that makes sense.
It is what we should if the debate over the vaccines opens up a broader conversation about how to be healthy in America. That's a conversation that I welcome, but if the question is, how should we get vaccinated issuing knock it backs in it with the healthy choice there? The answers easy people should vaccinated and once we do, then the country can open up in a way that will make us healthier so, for example, fewer people I can see going to my German washed in DC precisely because masks are mandated because we spend a little bit of an outbreak in washing DC. There will be less of an outbreak as vaccinations increase in more people can go to the gym. I think the country will be healthier overall when more people make this decision. So I I think that its good, if the, if the way that we are debating health in the country is, is not the end of a conversation that stops with sort of, hopefully the endless pandemic. The conversation that keeps going that's fantastic.
but you know I don't I don't wanna conflate, that with a bastion of people not getting vaccinated, people should get back stated that snatched the first question and then, after that, let's talk about you how to make no Americans healthier overall overall Yom in the camp like booster, shot sure sounds great. I was never like a fool vaccine guy. Never got the flu shot, I don't know if you guys were, but I just would like damn good I'll get the floor reared. We find this is different and a want to go to the hospital, and I the hospital simple. I was just asking you a friend about this. I have been a pretty sporadic flu vaccine getter and am somewhat ashamed to say so, especially because I feel like bill is I talk to you. A rapid represent a myself extremely probe accede and, of course I am. This experience will absolutely change the frequency with which I get the flu vaccine going forward. I'm gonna get it every single year now, sleepy, that's a very small individual, subtle example of how the kind of commerce
there were, having now about health will help us in the years forward bride before before we lead there go whether what sports media takes. Are you most excited fora with his next were where this egg who's going to be who's, going to be sagging and doing the is Kyrie Irving's body and his choice like what's what meat is on so I have been waiting for that. Zag actually- and you know, look that's that that take be out there already. I haven't seen a ton of it yet because I think you know it is interesting to just read the way sportsmen goes on all these kinds of things, derricks right that this is all running. You know, smacked Edmunds player empowerment era? But I I you know, I'm looking forward to an interesting. Let us say take on that, but I have not seen that yet, at least at least a big one it's quite his AG sitting. Therefore, for somebody Derek it feels like every time you ve come on, we ve been at a different point of this whole back they are about. I remember was at April,
range. You came on and we have found so great and now I've been, I know, people my life that breakthrough cases multiple people they all do. You know they got out of it, but it just a little alarming that years people are still getting and have no idea how they got it was it out? My son's literally game was at you know was I was it from the upper driver who took me from point a to point b like it's definitely. I was deafening more optimistic, though ass few times, I've seen you and soon with when this is gonna end yeah. Look. The first thing to say is that all condemn accent every pandemic has ended, and this one is going to end to when it ends up, hopefully in the next few months, and not something that last several years I definitely feel like Delta was. It was a story to challenge like whatever covert look like in March Delta was covered on steroids and vaccines.
Clearly have not held up on the infection side as well as people are hoping they would hold up in March and April, but where they held up really really well, is on the most important France. They felt that really well, and it's held up really well on debts and that's why you see month after month that the line between unvaccinated DES and vaccinated immortality continues to grow and grow and grow. So I don't think that the last few months have made the decision of get back stated. Don't get back stated more complicated. If anything, I think it's simplified it, because Delta is cuz. It's so much more contagious that it's all daily for people that are in fact stated? But absolutely I wish that we were still in the April world where it looks like we would have finally be this thing. We might just be a year off at some point. The combination of acts, nations, natural immunity and unfortunately DES will will end this pandemic, and hopefully it is the next few months this one's for both the other day
Take a girl bride. You take a first. Do you feel like the way the media has covered covered in the end, the covert porn that we basically add where it's like. I got my apple news and you see the four stories on them in one of them is always like VON Baxter. Demand, as of covert are vaccinated, mom has complications or whatever, combined with them. The fact that we don't talk about hospitalizations in DES as much as we talk about your cover cases where it seems like hospitalizations in DES
have dropped significantly and it seems like the mainstream. Media should really be focusing and then hammered home cause it's the best case to get the vaccine, but yet it's always about covert cases. Colbert cases and it's always leaning toward you. No kind of these extreme examples are some crazy story. Things like that, just from a media coverage standpoint. Are we doing a good job. Yet it's an interesting question. I mean I feel I've tried to really avoid those kind of stories and listen to smart people like Derek and reads more people like Derek on the subject, because if there is ever been a subject, we pick two or three people and just went with them for the pandemic and Sir probably collapsed year. Maybe your news reading into a handful of people. This has been one of em. For me I mean do you should read widely and all they can to stop it. I've just tried to find people I like, and I trust and read them and sort of shut out a letter that noise. I have done the same dark when you think I think fit one
The one of the pre existing conditions of the media there has been exposed by this virus is the fact that sometimes, when we're very confused, we have a very small number of hands to play, and one of them is the shame game, and you see that I think you know certainly on which I think I think you see a too much on the left blossoming it. Is it too much on the right that we can get to appoint, were rather then focus on evidence and report facts. We instead look to shame the other side and try to feel like we're getting one over our political enemy, and I I wish looking bear like I wish there was less seem picking in media. I guess I would put it that way. I feel like an I feel it. I came into this pandemic thinking like America, soap the rise- maybe maybe something merely dramatic might unite this country at this. There's nothing more.
universal eyes a pandemic ie it is, it is everywhere. This is a global pulse that might be like me, most universal internationally, story in the history of the world, but even world war. Two was this international as covered, and yet, rather than flatten polarization across the media landscape is heightened it we need. We came into it with like these dolls to see the world, which is always my side right, your side wrong and are then throw them away and try to solve problems. I feel like too much the media has. Just you know it held the God, was saved her face and refuse to see this crisis in any way that isn't hyper political. So if I could have one overarching criticism of the coverage of this kind, it has been that we can't get out of our way in seeing the world exclusively through hyper polarized lenses, and
It's really really bad for telling people the truth, because an affirmative basis you're not telling people the truth. You just telling people that their site, that their side is still virtuous and the other side is still wrong just over and over and over again, and I wish we found some way to break out of it and find a way to report on this virus across the political landscape. That was evidence first and ideology last so two thousand twenty four, your same President Caitlin Jenny, should destroy our social media, come at the gate right. I think about this without the nine eleven retrospective stuff further this month, and you think, like that happens and it was honestly the most american moment of my lifetime. Maybe we were all on the same side with that and we all embrace New York Times living in Boston is a time, and I don't want to say patriotic, but there was like a picture a key element that sprung out of that? Where was I k? We gotta rebuild the yard. This can happen us
You could feel it and we're all in it together, and I was thinking like work that had happened, two thousand twenty one, how immediately it would have become this path. Arising thing and people taking sides in trying to blame and putting its each other. That was not what nine eleven was like that eleven was really weird. They communal did you You notice that at all when you're watching that stuff, it was interesting, is the one thing I read and all the retrospective was. There was this idea that, of course, you know in the immediate aftermath there was a sense of pulling together and you know coming together as one but pretty quickly that dissolve. Do you know, and I became one of these things where you know everybody says: oh, wasn't that gray, we all pull together and they look back as they. Actually we didn't. You know as a window, that change that was like a but like a couple months later were. Where are sooner, that no Derek. Maybe will depend on the date better than I can, but it was added. I would say that it was it wasn't that long after and in fact we did go in lots of different directions as a country, and we have not
You know what this has led us to the path where we are now been a data point on the path where we are now so I don't know, I really don't yeah guess Fox NEWS. Definitely at some point started work in it, but I don't know. I guess I just feel like those first few days it felt like we were all involved in a way that, I would have thought the pandemic would have triggered. You know them in an age where it is really. This is really weird Haiti, but I mean it hardly worth pointing out a different EU juxtaposing nine eleven and covered their after nine eleven George W Bush, whom I wasn't a huge and I have still not visited the site of the crisis heat. He recognized the reality of the tragedy. Donald Trump did the opposite.
I recognise the reality. The tragedy unfortunately key. He downplay the virus as much as possible steadily over by Easter and brought in people who were chosen. Unfortunately, service quickly because he saw in them the ability to continue to downplay how serious Corbett could potentially be. So I'm not a great man of history theorist, I dont think everything just flows from whatever the president says. At the same time, I think that the surly one of the differences between that crisis in this one was the leadership that we had. An leadership is also possible, partly reflecting the fact that sort of there were the institutional ways that we should have knew how to respond to a terrorist attack both in New York and with our defence unity. Stats nodded the defence of the wars the came after, but there is clearly an apparatus in place to attack the forces that attacked us in coal than we did not have that counterforce.
did not know how to act. The force that attacked us. We had rap and failures in the FDA, the CDC in the White House. We were not introducing prepared for this pandemic at all, and I think that also created a vacuum of uncertainty and a fog of pandemic into which partisan and polarize voices flood, and that, I think, was a huge part of why there wasn't any kind of unified sense of what this risk was, because the are our leadership or institutions in the White House, didn't provide a clear evidence base sense of what the thread actually was. Well now we get to relive those months on the morning, show with Jennifer understand Aris Witherspoon season two revolves around the covered response. Derek will continue to read you on the Atlantic, thanks for thanks for popular in talking about this with us, take a break and gonna come back with bread, Peggy S after twenty.
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first month battering service free when european interact monitoring that sounds great supersaver two eyes: sympathy, Becca, slashed BS I Curtis is still here. We have the pardon interruption. Interruption. Documentary has been this week twenty years apart, pardon interruption. I think that a the exact date is October. Twenty second, about five weeks after live in six weeks after nine eleven and a show that arm leverage the relationship between make a robot and tony colonizers been told many times, two guys that were on the sports reporters together that basically bid their bones of the Washington Post together became very close friends and people were just listen and talk of the office is a bit like that should be a show and it just kind of went from there. Would it? What do you anticipate hanging over these next few weeks as people talk about the impact of pity I'd? What is it? What would you think? It means to you in the big picture: Big Calhoun S, sports media outlets,
We'll couple ideas for a one is couple years ago: I think this was Donald trumps, very first state of the union, I'm watching it on, I believe and b and down the right side of the screen is a scrolling series of topics that kind of goes down as Donald Trump hits the various topics in the speech Am I oh, my gosh, the state of the union is now pity. I give TAT, is unbelievable effect on television and often, I think, very suddenly, but it's amazing how many things had been stolen. Other tv networks from media we had the bigger ringer podcast on Cisco neighbour. A lot of television was borrowed from that. What a pot guess his birth none. I think you could argue the pity I was kind of the second generation of that and people looked that show my who. How can we do our own version of pity I? What little tricks can we sell because
in a way that you really made an argument show that you could feel ok about watch in fact feel good about watch it and not violate air Do I really want to watch the sports argument? Show you, though I like these guys. I like this is this money. This is this is for me and yet to me, that's that's my biggest takeaway yeah, think Cisco neighbour, a victim Mclaughlin Maclaughlan group, where they have been set aside for years on fire and crossfire they either they were their innovations of it. We'd. Never really a hundred percent senior worked in sports. It actually word better locally, They remember in Boston. Bob labelling is to hope that Sunday night show on Channel four and the guy's a command, they would argue about sports inside this asketh wishes and ours
half hour, but from a national standpoint, really sport centre was the only place within worth than they do the sports reporters on Sundays. That was fun. I guess but pity I they tapped into it, and I think it was one of those things you ve no qualms the beginning. You watch your clips in here. And that by this is this show they grew? They really found their footing, but it was still really felt revolutionary, even in the moment, whereas ago, they figure this out, they figure out of two guys. Who's, who are friends, argue about sports under some sort of structure in a way that doesn't feel I don't know like eight like it was kind of abusing some of their take format that we saw in later years. I would say so these really bored remember. This is two thousand and one that the starts right. We're coming out of this
Europe of National Sports Radio, where the big stars of people like Jim Rome and sports radio alot of it not all of it, but a lot of it on the national level is very much like a W. W promo and these guys come along and there like we're, not taking ourselves to serious and Tony said something on the very first shove like. If we can have a talk, show everybody can have Atocha and there was his whole sense of them. Saying isn't it where that we get paid to have opinions about sports here, and I can tell you that built so different and so bracing in two thousand and one again verses at that point, which was mostly sports radio out in the world. I think there is one thing and I think Tony, hold nature, which you know much better than I do, but outside a Wilbur about this once he said like Tony on one of the first days, the show was like a hope you people are hunting and not buying looking at his crew, rang ones like weight, about twenty gonna with you, we have two years ago
anti money worst case we're on the golf course in you known a couple weeks, and we got a bunch of money and Toto goes worst case. That's my best case right in that Tony would never. He did the sums radio show too, but he would never be self serious in that format, and I think it save that format in a way and save that show and protect and I M just they just- have such a good vibe again, there's some dynamics that were employed twenty twenty years ago. People, people probably don't realize, is much dialogue. One was Tony was kind of. I guess he was caught by my dad in the sense of he was the guy that I was gonna, try body as began, and he had the radio show where every once in a while. Say something on the radio show that got him in trouble, and so there is a sense of my guy you're, putting pretty my pc, I that's that's. Probably maybe that might not go that well there. You might get himself into trouble there. He might get
did show by God? I can't order and advertise the east it now. He was much more live wire. I think back there. Now you look back and he wasn't it all, but that was always the consideration. The other thing was it was a show that was out of five thirty. During a time when stories could still content could really breathe and sports right no wait till Wednesday or Thursday for the sports illustrated cover story on the Sunday masters of the Sunday sports right there. They there is. There wasn't like this rush to this. Would you think rush that we have now so the five thirty they kind of way in and they would be the last voice of the day on whatever had happened the day before what had just how then- and it was an enormous power- was the show that he has been had needed for ever was it came out when people came home from work? It came during a time when people had VCR as dvr as they could watch it that night and it just leverage all these
four things and then what you mention was the other big piece was just putting stuff on the screen. That told me with their talk about which seemed so simple thou, but just to have like you look of the screen, you see red Sox at its half. It out, like Red Sox, were there no, when the Red Sox, what are they gonna say you now, and that was really helpful, because tv was just a big. screen with nothing on earth and just people talking, and they figured out a way to game a further and make it a little our final NATO air Guide. All obviously you I've worked with a bad, the fortunate enough a long time, and you know I think, he's going to get a lot of platitudes over the next few weeks, but he understood some of these things really instinctively like people will want this. People want this and all that work yeah and I think one thing ride home. So it's been big about as televisions about relationships yep, it's not what Tony and MIKE
about sports. It's about the relationship between Tony MIKE and you and I have seen lots of people try this on television. They have a real friendship and they try to translate it and it doesnt work as a television friendship it just doesn't. It doesn't turn into a tv show, and I thought the thing about Tony MIKE there was always so interesting to me was because they were both wash impose comest. They treat each other as equals. They didn't they didn't. You know always agree on everything they made fun of each other, that all that stuff, but they were equal. It wasn't big brother little brother, it wasn't, I have all the takes, and you don't know anything which is what a lot of people get into, because get a low in secure when they get behind the might, as the latter podcasting, due by the way the girl and secure they. Wanna be right all the time, those guys really respected each other, and so the vibe on the show was really pleasant to watch. You didn't feel like man, I'm I'm I'm watching a really
We're a meeting here or something. You know two guys I to hate each other. You like, I know these guys, respect each other, and I, like I like being with them re and captured at least the imagination of people who, like I just would love thing out, those guys who has became celebrities immediately. There was a lot more people watching his spirit at the time to you're talkin over me and viewers, and I think that was the time of the company when the people who were stars. Eighty is Pierre, were major: stoppers Berman, Stew, Scott, those you guys they have had to wait until their damn Patrick, even somebody like any main. He takes over four killed for fur Oberman, and amuse becomes a household aim just by inheriting somebody us his job, and that was the power of the platform at the time. I think those guys said that I think the pity I
of everything he has been is done, probably had the highest approval rating you nowhere. Eight just people like that. Nobody was against it. People like they got the chemistry between those guys anything. It was revolution in the sense that we have this now. Podcast were two guys along and they're shooting the shit make fun of each other. There's a million podcast like that right in a lot of them were back in the day, really really what didn't exist? It was making the mad dog had their own thing time, but only people in New York, and here it probably a couple local radio shows that worked other than that of a really value. Deak that these two guys, I feel like they're, my friends- and I am now that seems I guess twenty years later, some of this stuff seems either obvious or the impact of it, as has gone, but it didn't
and when it was impact, won't I say what makes it unique as they have been able to reengineer it nope. You know they ve done different versions of this. I think you could maybe point it Michael Engine, males show you know is a way of life to people at her friends. We are forming a tv show before they did. Sports entered six, but how many people do you know have been trotted out like you're gonna do shouting doesn't work the tv and radio, as the other and admit that they had a hundred radio lineups of the last fifteen years the only ones I really struck oil or make it MIKE which, when it that start in the nineties, probably lay down his early arts and what's a coward does, The end, then, I think Vampa Marcello were probably were pretty successful too, but in terms of like those two time sites that they needed p
to succeed. They really only had those two shows. It's really hard. It's really hard to find chemistry is really hard to leverage audits, at the other thing that nobody matches with pity I- and this is either at least a little person maker. Posted a bunch types and another. They realize this when they created the format, but it became an outcome of the format. You could cite other people in and even though it wasn't as good as corn, eyes or mobile, the show was still watchful and then they could build up. Different guesses. Whitlocke was really get on that shall avatar was good. I think I was getting to the point arouse good before I started doing more NBA stuff, but they d like late, I chose, don't have that Kimmel took the summer off. It wasn't like the shows. The same. It's Kimmel show that said, he's the star,
shell pity I was able to keep the structure and if somebody was missing either corner hazard to carry them were whereby could carry them or they could groom this new talent in those guys just made people better, and I think that's another thing that makes it so unique, Yes, I was on the set once I would keep Oberman did it with tony corn. Iser Keith was really good at it and I think the secret to that is the show is super produced and super formatted, whereas if you watch first, somebody starts talking. You have no idea when they're gonna stop talking to frame, but here I can see only the list of topics, but how long everybody's gonna go so really it really did become plug in play and by the way. This leads us to the next question, which I think you ve asked me offline a couple of times, as is their beauty I post Tony and MIKE, when they decide to hang it up or is it so much about them in their relationship that nobody else can do it
don't they d get rid of it, but it won't be the same in its funding has gone. Iser is just I cite the show is, I only have a year laughed algorithmic soon and he's here oh great at at at at at at for how many piazza did ultimately, but he was so the idea for a week. Like two thousand, I was, I was terrified, no idea what I was doing. The strict The show makes it so that it can kind of walk you through it, and you know it's like alright come out. Have some energy fees for topics? Take your take the bell's going to ring if you're up next, you have to turn to the camera like they do it like. Basically, anybody can host At least you know some, I confidently and then you try to get better at you realize the nuances and the stuff Tony was always good at was having fun within the framework of that and that's what he's the best at, but those guys can carry
Somebody like me in two thousand denied his terrified and really kind of pull out the performance you need from it at all. can be really hard thing for somebody else to do in those two guys leave, I'm never going to do it. They can raise the energy, thus sensitive psycho. This person's energies, low I'll, raise mine Or this person stumbled long or bed, I'm in a calm and save him Tony's the gate at especially like whipping things around. Some kind of and anyway, if you watch the show carefully, lay and he's the best at it. Little Kay since that will allow you to kind of come right in so averse conversational. I dont know I can't imagine anybody. Imagine that so yeah, I think the show exists. That will not be the same. I just can't imagine caring about anybody relationship as much as I like theirs. I just tell you what
money on tv and in so many podcast, like these people, are together doing report today? And I just don't I just don't care it. Doesn't it doesnt work for me? Was the Egypt thereafter like at this point, Married couple, robot drives, corn hasn't crazy I'll talk of. Had he really defence, and he'll get mad at him on the show very out, my god. You said this last week observer in, but there is always the mutual respect, which is what you have to have, and I think what we ve seen tv go bad they especially as being in its work mutual respect is in quite there we saw at first hand next, even Abyssinian, like Didn t view backs as much anymore. No, when you what its professional wrestling, as I said, a million times once you're not sell in the other guys moves as well. It's your its Arap. It's done, and I bet it enough to be situation at this point like if the I've, u dont, trust the other people on the set it's over.
In view of the split screen. If you're not nodding with a real serious face, very other guys talking at me word I respect him near or though, or the fake laugh. When you know, if somebody makes a joke and instead science insight that Eureka coin as it may, we always talked about men and if a body like the trigger really cell tony stuff, like whether Tony was gonna there. I will, in my opinion I'll, never know cause. I feel ass. If he had been without Michael's, Thou Michael's would so there- and I have argued about this with two Rico eat. I just feel like it was a bad match. Witches would happen. Sometimes, sometimes people are bad match. Lucidity is, pin a billion, could trillion times love, but I think getting to twenty years. where is because Tony for at least the entire time I've done him was convinced that shows about to get cancelled in that area to get rid of them and his gun modes Amanda touch a member they started. Putting Pablo with them. Is I get psyches by grand Son
Unlike doing a showed, my grandson, nobody wants to see that too old and but Easter really good at it, and people do want to see it. I think the audiences gone down just because I think afternoon tv is gone for a million different visits. Young people baby are watching afternoon tv as much Tik Tok scenario, Podcast, Instagram,
streaming, Netflix there's a million competitors that they didn't have in two thousand when, but it still relevant, show million competitors and by the way he has been a very different place. Yes, peons not being driven by newspaper sports, calmness anymore. The ride home block, which was for shows, is now shrunk to two shows and they're doing very different kinds of shows. You know MAX Kellerman the afternoon things like that that are not in his in not the same format so the IDA, but it seems to me it's kind of grandfather did not. To borrow Tony's metaphor, there were Pablo, but it said a grandmother damn I was for this week and I was looking up some stuff in twitter and I looked up the stuff just cannot look around and I have forgotten how many costumes they used where it had a very like bar,
basement local tv early, Johnny Carson, feel where they coming out fully in costume. That was really funny and in just kind of a nod of like we know. This is totally ridiculous, but we're just gonna sell the bit and it became kind of winning yeah, but eight they always manage to seem like they're having fun. Who knows it there actually having fun, I feel like they were almost all of it but they never felt gimmicky, even though a lot of it was gimmicks right and woods, hilarious about it is a great armies. Don't ride home is still doing the voices it still. This whole made operation you here like. They were they ask the questions, that's right, homes, voice gonna. Do you think the bearers will start justify still leg, than the show thou colors, the other one. In those guys, I've been there. Entire time as there is, it was really fun.
in that show in trying to get better at to the point where it's like. I can actually hang with this format with these guys cause it's fuckin hard, especially if you like resume like we're on now you're on a half second delay, you have to kind of wait to do your fake laugh because you know you're on the half second delay. There's all these components to it! That's why, when it's in person it's always been, and I think the pandemic. You can see it when these guys are in the studio together we have been able to a bunch of times. It's always better, though, is better debit of feed off somebody in all think it's funny. You say it's not gonna get because the whole show was next the Horatio. Everybody doesn't feel that way. It's so gimmicky. It's not gimmicky, I think, is the way to say it like the show is so produced. Everything is put little box in the little amount of time, but it feels natural that just that that is a really weird element of it.
Yeah then around the horn popped up and people member. There is all this around the horn animosity for years. You and I may of Jesus. What says in that now it seems that people, I guess her fine with it, they don't care, but it was funny that it was always like the annoying brother of The eye reason come ahead before pity eyes. They are the sky, here's your comes, but then eventually p, got over there and now that two shows gonna make sense together. I guess yeah. I guess I think, I'm in the amended don't pay attention to it around. The hoard always felt meat to gimmicky. like it if it right in the game agreed to another level to the point of like now, it's not human conversation in more so I'm out like that's that's when I pull the record and jump out of the plane is when, when it does it, when it just feels like something other than people talking to each other on television, I never watched it. I always tried to watch Potass having Peter had that bore tax where
people feel like they watched another time, even though they didn't you. Oh, I love pity I rape or baby they weren't watch every day, which is really where you want to be with a tv show here s why the prove a rating. I value. I love that you anyway pity I'll be. Instead, the document are, I think, should be fined the behind the scenes stuff theirs. They always have an amazing crew behind the scenes so be fantasy. Those people get some some shied, but just in general, had such a unique tv show I'm glad you brought up Siskel and Ebert Cuz. I think that was another one, and it's really hard to do that, for you create something that just every space steal from at it. It's like an all. You can eat buffet for people grabbing ideas from it and and it's still going to hit their third decade her, but they can't ultimately re engineer it. They steal from it. They take the gimmicks, they take the side scrolling topics, but they can't recreate it, which is the ultimate compliment, Guys Curtis, you can listen to him
on the press backs podcast and you probably work learned some copies yeah we'll get a good press box. You mentioned crappy food earlier. I do these. You know nonfiction book revisits from time to time of the press by so we get AIR Schlosser on Friday, talking about a little food nation tat twenty years old, I might add a book I still think about, and I wish I thought more about when I pull ended a jack in the box drive through and go for the two tacos but I was really a disease, Ai Weiwei, every that crap Jesus he's gotta do a Starbucks nation sequel. Finally, where the terrorist organisation eyebrow, Paris Tennessee baseball. This episode of Bill Simmons Podcast is Brett to buy Miller Lite. Sometimes you want to hang out, but you don't want to go out to that sound familiar
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marketing automation platform, none of the complexity, so you can compete, the big boys learn more at Clave Yoda COM, Slash Spotify, K, L, a v. I why oh dotcom Slash Spotify are dismayed as elusive. I've had a podcast since two thousand seven he's at an open invite. We hung out at a wedding once it Jimmy camels wedding. I accosted him. We habitat occur without for like twenty minutes and yet stolen in command, but then the last couple years, Billy Creative Third open up. He became a little less elusive started. Doing couple interviews now he's out of pocket. this is great woke up to the back ass. I appreciated groping surrounding the truth is one we spoke it back. Camels wedding, I counted. That is our part gas. If you mean I know you're a writer who wanted to write about, he got naval late at night.
I should have been recording it. I said I don't know if they had the recording on the iphones back that message. Just that and just running Azipod. It was great. We asked you a million questions. It was a fun whether he was one of them. I think the most unique weddings that better was awesome. I haven't and anyone like that before, where the amount Dunbar celebrities there and also the camel. Now really given the shit near. You seem ass perfectly plaza about everything, crack and jokes during their. I think I feel like there was. He did some prank. am I to my camera border. Wasn't any case yet that that was a pretty yeah rare rare event for me, and I ll go to those weekend at the weekend. Well, so you started doing interviews a little bit more the last couple years, but I know guided
What is so at the beginning of my career, their own. I always imagine myself of the character actor and I didn't see a distinction between actor in character activists. Just what I thought acting. Wasn't you play characters. I didn't even consider the notion of creating some kind of personality that I would hawk and another it there's that asked to us liberty and fame an actor in general and now we are reality: actors who occupied the same sort of entertainment space for the viewing public, but I imagine that my job, was going to be to convince people that I was somebody else said if they could get two hours away from their life? and be immersed in another story, ever imagine that what they would want to do is go. She had Billy crook. I imagine that they would
what about your movie, but as people in it who could only ever play that part. So the notion of cultivating some kind of a personal story in the public eye was anathema to everything that I wanted to do. So I avoided as many raw interviews is possible as much to the chagrin of all the people who work with and the studios. Ah, but after you know, I'm fifty three now well into my career, I am also concerned about being a pigeon or one way or the other of the establishment
enough over time that if I had an opportunity now to promote things that I'm in a much more inclined to do so, will you had this stretch and it was rubbish? That's all the time we had built the fifth you had this stretch in the late nineties when you'd gotten, almost famous, you got another cup, other big parts and people like next waiver guys. This is this. You wanna guys can be the guy. Then you became kind of one of the guys writer and then the consensus was now he doesn't want to eat, isn't gonna, be that he just wants to do the stuff you wants to do Broadway he does. He doesn't want this kind of arc that some of the other eight plus listers had when they first hit it, and then they do this movie. They work with this directive the new supervisory like you just you can't went the other way. You want it well that the model that you are talking about is very specific to film
actors, the people who want to make their careers starring in chums, producing films, That was not what I was interested in the people that I'm lionize, when I was growing up for people who did cedar and shop people whose versatility over the breath of their career was the thing that made them significant and what I also saw from the moment I started. Actings was people who were declared the die or the girl of the moment the week that the different magazine came up and next month I guarantee you and it was not the same person on the cup happened again and again and again became clear to me that that really wasn't an instrument as an actor would use to pursue their career as an instrument than that
studios and magazines would use to sell their magazine. So I felt like well unless you guys, need beyond the cupboard given away a lot more than get from this and at the same time I am a genuine, not a kindness, hunk rock, but a genuine affection for the theater I like going to the theatre. The future is an important part of my conversation with you know, being an adult in the world. I like communing, with people at the theater I like being in Where and when you finish doing something like almost famous and it comes out, and you got your play. The people in the film industry think all that's an obvious fuck. You guys delayed, stick in his thumb in her eye when, in fact, I just had a great part in
Peter I'm going to wear the parts? Are you know, and I didn't feel my so fired up about it- that I wanted to explain that the people I just wanted to keep calling about my career and over time it was either work or it wasn't well. Your generation two actors, the generation right before I was this incredible jusino in I've been in their ability to do tat for China was due in place for like what five years in the eighties. It represents a meaningless originating parts. You know off. Projects on narrow credentials are, I'll, legendary eyebrow Julia. You know the actress rocket and that there is an enormous group of people who have been able to boast, do films and be a part of the long tradition of actors in place to get to play a part that some
we played not just twenty years ago, but a hundred and twenty years ago, two hundred years ago, those kinds of things, Makes the chaotic business of acting occasionally heartwarming, so the notion that I would get the do like recently. I can check through Harold, Pincher and Samuel Beckett, ah on Broadway, with em callin sure, hence Lee and Patrick Stuart and played supporting parts in those It was just the four of us who did those two plays in rapid? Why we do one one night when the next night, when I'm enacting school But it is the dream. There is no other, of course, than nine months that three of which are in Berkeley, trying to figure out the play. No man's land is absolute No brainer to me, I'd like to have an opportunity to work with those masters like on Broadway in
in my home town. Ah I, but to some people its it book camel actually came up. I think Molly dragged about there, but they came up to Berkeley to see no man's land and we went out to dinner afterwards and he goes. that was saw. I was really interesting cool. I dont know what it was about war. Why you do this kind of stuff by day was gonna, go at the level of perfect response from this call Jimmy the Hollywood elite that is that the notion that people ways of connecting to an audience. That is, it studio or a sound stage in LOS Angeles. Ah, ah, it doesn't make any sense to them. So what? When
but when he would say I don't understand why you would do this every day for the four hundred people that were there tonight that were interested in watching era, Earl pinchers inscrutable play, and now we must try to figure out why I like what you said about your basically a character: actor trapped in the remit, but exists, but the way by Brad Pitt to bread, tat. It is for sure, accurate and back. You know it he's done at one of the most incredible jobs. I think people in around my generation of managing boss and that's really hard to do. He used his level affair, and the way that you ve scrutinise when we, I remember doing sleepers and being around him in Austria, now
This young man was navigating the cavalcade of pressure and attention and to be able to get through that in some kind of sheep that you can continue to produce the level of work that he produces is rare, and he has the exact career that anybody should aspire to occur, character, actor for sure he just he doesn't do theatre so prohibits movie, we have a movie ever movie, which still movie people makes sense. But if you do you know what say you do money box and then you take eighteen months to develop our production elephant Broadway people are gonna, think o Neil someone who knows what to get right when, in fact, your your applying the same kind of ambition, just an is different format. Sleepers was your first movie right. That was Those one can imagine living well. I didn't Sancho grind before that, without
Paul shows in Adrian Shelly and a man. The peat, which was an independent from I played down an Ex kine, who is just that, ah ah jail, and you couldn't stop himself and drive and fast still, thousands. as fast Eddie and on the other. There are not many people saw that. Ah, so then, then I did the sleepers I think, actually in between that. I didn't another movie that I got fired from hell yeah like the first, the first big big job. I have it was for days on a movie, and ah I was supposed to work two days and then I had two weeks and then come back and work another. Today's neither goes on Arizona, Mexico. I did my two days and in the two weeks off I had to go to my friends, high school, my high school friends wedding
join at the wedding Helen everybody. Then I am in a field movie I mean this gigantic. I couldn't I couldn't and shared it it. I tried to take whatever that they had for their wedding and shine and on my own burgeoning career and ah got back to New York, and my brother said my brother, I lived in this parliament together and he said the you got a call from the director and I said well that's strange and in talking much while I was there, probably the fire makes em before before I could get that sends out of my mouth. My age calls me said so I dont know how to say this in an attack for ways out. You said you were fired again. shaking off what an enlightened Would he give me any indication that about? I wasn't not doing a good enough job Andalusia? It wasn't a huge
art like it wouldn't killed the movie. Do let me say anything I sought arm, but instead they decided to release and on recast it and shoot it with somebody else. But this is when I discovered what a great professional was bell, because I still get residual checks from the job. I was fired, oh my god, so a big movie. You get so movies. I don't wanna see the movie right, because the actor who got the part on it, I got ah, but then I get papers, but then I got sleepers and die and everybody is that movie they get up man living Dorothy, I mean there's like twenty people about over. There is the unbelievable me in on our borders. Are both you know or theatre actors to enter sit at the table. You know in the courtroom? See weapon, it doesn't happen. Is our representation Dustin Hoffman is, is our lawyer, you know,
less than half men in another one of these people who had been a character actor in the theater actors. Well, you know, their capability capability, in particular, was legendary and across from him, is Robert Deniro. and the impossibility of that circumstance was not lost, on run, and I we had an incredible times. Ah, enjoy at every bit of their company. Was that so, then, is it true that you declined in addition for Titanic what the actual story with that. No you know I'm on I had committed you are doing a movie call without limits about a runner. Stop we're talking about without limit some very where without limits are sweet, as sports guy you weren't, I was gonna you can have it ought to
no areas on the best sports movies last twenty five years of this phenomenon, well, watering, we'll get it to what MRS I mean. As I recall, you know this was thirty years ago when this happened yourselves five years ago, with the way that I recall it, I had committed to doing without limits and the I had one meeting with James Cameron and it appeared that there was gonna, be a conflict, and so I just said, while I've already committed to that so I dont be. I can take that we need further. I was never offered the part it wasn't like. They relate Billy the guy, you know what screw thing whether they are already money or things about that certainly is so here's what happens in a vacuum stories like that take on their own, so without me, interceding in that moment and sang guys. That's what happened, because I was trying to talk anybody about anything right
reveal who I was and what I was interested in any of that historic and it took on a life itself is funny. We do this. We watch a movie Pakistan. Will we research it to add this she got half astern research sitting up on the internet, and you have I deal with true right, o Billy casting whatever Spilett crude. It was almost the guy, and so it so and he turned it down you just we dont totally. No, unless It's like an oral history or some giant feature about the movie, where the actor actually has a quote I also lay down or whatever I never know, what sure not true and you never know it unfolds, but go even that even me. Coming up with awe Ah you know my recounting about about nothing, Where did the inertia of the last twenty five years of a different story? So there is nothing can do to change whatever story is out ah
no matter how hard I try, I mean it'll, take twenty five years of me, telling that every single time and can a boring after a while, I suppose, without limits, is an incorrect movie? And the weird thing about that era, which are more that's, remember, cause I'm old. There were two prefrontal movies at the same time and it became a staring contest and neither went back down was yours was the one that was backed by Tom Cruise re in his company. I know every foot hurtle Rex I found out about the other movie. The first day I landed in Eugene after I had already begun, prepping away for a while. I land a new genes and go straight, the Heyward field, and one are you not check out the hallowed grounds and
There is a meat going on and one of the people who worked at the meat came up and ask me which steep pre Fontaine movie. I was working on my god and I thought was elected him and I was like there's another one and I sure enough therein production. At the same time. I think what had I been if I'm remembering track like they were. All one group the producers and were and writers all were interested in telling the story we maintain story, and there was some sort of creative rifts. We in the bud, some of the writers and as some of the producers and both of them, I think Tom Cruise was attached. It took place depraved contain before that on and I just took so long to get the suitability rights yeah either a said, I think you said I forgot to produce this well
happened was as soon as one of the productions got up and going the other one was like none with me to get up and running to like it like we can't play with the script. Anymore became a firm, you know, buying it or you get this Jos, literally a race and the race to finish the movie erased to get it out. First, I think there's came out first and down, but regardless the going to say it. Cuz you're not there's came out first was way better new high years is way better years was really good. Really free Fontaine is character, whose life is short life is worth at least to move. So I, if it cannot- currently or not, but I can t remember there was a sports illustrated yeah, I think so
I didn't remember that in one track in high school and by my grandfather and try my my father ran track, and ah I can remember that cover and I must have only been five or six when it came out. They never had track and filled people on the cover later I think in pussy was a handsome guy there's something about that. Liking face his eyes in the Mustang. Should the hair. You looked haunted and my driven in a way that was so didn't know anything about it, but I remembered that picture when I read the script of course, Robert towns, seminal figure, ah from growing up,
like China, town or, if you like, movies in general, you gonna know who Robert powders and to get a chance to meet him and ah play such a legendary figure sum is irresistible to me. Also, my dad was a big sports. Gonna grandmother was big sports guy and I was the feelings guy so this is an opportunity for me. Ah, did their attention do so year you're a Dallas when you are grown up right so that their watching cowboys game. You're just storming out of the house to go. If it is to place the garage iraqi people try to their kabuki theatre, trying to get my dad that got us either. so here, actually, as sport bookie, and what a year and a loan sharks
pretty wild did so. There was always sports on all our time and the the challenge for me was. I adore connection between sports being honoured. The power we now occasionally so sports didn't seem like such a reliable interest to me it was the army. He was not a great box, you know and profession that should be allowed seriously, it is a bad book, is pretty it's a rarity it and you know, I think he just had too much fun with people. He was more interested in the social aspect of it all and also gives a gambler search. Ah, you know that he had jack you see he was always looking for his pet rock or the big when you know, seems starting shady companies get this company without Leubronn, ah
He bought the rights to remember that old umbrella, hat yeah, so Leubronn. What is, I think, play for the cardinals at that time and so you had red and white ones manufactured there were endorsed by Leubronn called the Brok Umbrella, so there were sports figures in our life rona them. My grandfather said state records in high school track. Ah Highschool Boxing Highschool football. So there was a lot of interest in sports and again I was like you know the mounted the letter I was sure- Wiring, I couldn't competed robots in. I got scared the baseball and we get the middle school in those guys started comfort and it bears the other guy I could draw walk. Is my strike zone was in the huge, but beyond that, so wrestling became my sport and wrestling is kind of asylum
jerry? You now experience the. Ah, it doesn't have the same me. No cash is yet football Friday, night lights and in that kind of stuff. So I was always on the fringe of that conversation families up when I had an opportunity, the merry both without without limits, there was no brainer, whenever we came out its it had sat in a statue point erect cause he's had been gone for like twenty two years at that point, but still had everybody from that generation remembered him, and he was kind of this mythical figure, there's questions about how he died. All that stuff. You are my people Eddie Fer, a movie like that. I thought the Olympics and move it as a great job. But I'm doing this by and I haven't seen a plebiscite nine months ago, but I've seen it a bunch of times. The movie does a great job. in the central banks of explaining. Why as metal, because as you, the fundamental fundamental with the Pew Fontaine is like this guy's like basically the tiger Michael Jordan
but then he doesn't even met on they. Let but the way they construct construct that all where it's like, like basically gets. You know know cut off at the worst point of the race by the time you say better. I just thought like from us. what movies standpoint. That's a really really really great saying I really like it. Well, I'm glad you I was hoping the robber would do two things at the same time If you know sports, one of the other things you know is sometimes there no Reimer reason for why somebody can deliver in a moment, sometimes the most clutch person who you are die to be up in that situation in the night thinning they just don't the liver. That's one of the things is most exciting about sports. If they go but every time then we would have a thrill of meeting our expectation. So part of me is the humane approached it and you know and quantifying missing that flax in sub what happens when the person who is the best for action, is driven the most? Who has the perfect mental appetites?
else how did they go on with their lives if they built their entire sense of self I won't let you like the chosen one. And then you ain't been well yet precisely the end, and also he had talked shit about, everybody was like did you go now so to me, that's at a fabulous, story. Ah, that's the heartbreak of him dying. he was on his road to redemption on his journey of recovery, whatever it takes for people who executed that caliber recover from such a vicious below. As that, that's one of the things is fascinating. I'm coming back the next year, turning the page the unit we gotta play professional golf and thanking went into the gallery and put in some persons to sow.
And then having to drop the ball, because the upcoming parties can be worth two hundred. Forty thousand dollars has crazing apartment illustration. The things that you have to do more to wait. There's your body can already do it now that the amount of effort that goes into being a professional athletes, training a body. Do things to your mind, does not take over. So what happens when you're in a game like golf, when all you have time back, so right at any rate for years between the Olympics. Where he's just that's it, that's just thinking. Jesse so he had to reorganise his sense of self in that period of time and then Ah, he dies tragically answer. I really incredible story about arm an incredible incredible. I was actually in Oregon recently in drove through to stay, and I was there was no small part of me that wanted to be able to walk into.
Oh, I don't own athletic store and have people go? Oh, my steep rebound pain had not happened right now, there's no. I would have to grant you know, get out ideas there. Might you know his father s, grandfather that it was twenty years ago show them, but there was a huge or just neural na had been like three different stages that those light. Then I got a picture, so is it still mere geared my heart? There's a pretty low sneaky large memorabilia thing with him like on Ebay, like their certain polluter, raise yeah yeah. Why he's kind of like a God and the track circles, thinkers woman, kids, when I download algerian dream was wearing a stop free t shirt was amazing, I'd kill them and some other stuff he stood for in the seventies and really personal stuff. is really rob, is happening right now and college athletics end.
Making sure that the answer is that the only beneficiary of this huge commodified world, even before him but that is used us at the forefront of Nike becoming A congealing dollar industry he's basically that the test case for the historical switch. That's another amazing part of the movie he's basically trying out Nike running sneakers that launches this massive thing. Well, who would have known at night? You would have gone to take over college at Buttocks as well by right. At that time he was, He was fulfilling his promise to be able to make some money while he was an amateur athletes and there was a company that one or two that needed him to endorse their shoes. So that was the big problem is happy. Maintain amateurs status, didn't you the Olympics and still make enough money to live in train the awesome.
How much dreaded did he do for that, because you not only have to being crazy shape? A? U s out. The technique has to be like flawless Yeah. You want to look like him for sure cause, there's a couple of sequences where ah I wanted to use stock foliage of the Olympics and our funding show its inner caught between me and am when, if it wasn't it, if it wasn't spot on that one I will mention red flags were drawn up, but we trained about prior weeks, Omnia, Patrice Donald she was a olympic Kotler and was also personal hostile, best yeah movie. That's way ahead of its time, where, ahead of its time and his usual tonight because she does she operating a high athletic level and she's she'd been in a movie. So what people, the athletes that we had money and we had some phenomena-
distance runners running with us, didn't realize that the way to go about constructing a scene, is you shoot one angle for about an hour and then then about our changing the cap, to another angle? You should that when you're, you know running because they're running about forming a mile pace at that time when you're running a forming a mile pace- and you do you say a intervals, two hundred to four hundred metres then you have an hour off. If you don't know how to manage that time, you're not gonna make it to the third set up. You're gonna be cramping up like nobody's business, so she knew that and she was like never in our training running more than eight hundred meters. What would you do straight two hundred metres again and again and again, you, know how to manage the days and we spent, I think, probably three weeks, concentrating on all the running stuff,
and the other thing is, I guess, if you got hurt, if you like a stretch, fracture view both hands during that that shutting the shooting down. I know it's driving me crazy, drank uncompetitive and I've been training so much. I want to see how fast I could run into sight you do not get around. That is, that is, so we were there at the night. I don't know why I ran a five twenty five mile. That was my best. That's good right, I don't know, I'm you ve already enacted. That's a balloon. This website is broadly by Directv Stream, introducing directed his dream, the best of live tv, and I demand which means you can get all your favorite sports movies and shows together
think how much new upsurge in your favour reality shows live or been drawn up so that the band either way get ready for some drama and the best part Directv stream has no annual contract. Directv stream get your tv together at Directv. Dotcom, compatible device required content varies by package. So then you get some luck almost famous happens. Yes, ah another situation were so Tom Cruise dropped that it would be without limits. Brad Pitt drop that I have almost finished After developing a fur like what five sixty, yeah yeah. They work together for a while on this gets back to our point before about trying to develop a skill set that,
useful for your entire career. So if you can be a utility player and come off the bench, some point take somebody's job because you have enough flexibility and your instrument is prepared and ready to go you're going to get more of these kind of jobs, and on. The watchman was another example. Canneries was supposed to do that, and down dropped out. There was a play that I didn't feel happened was planning on doing and that it's just a feature of the and the profession that, if you are equipped you can capitalize on it and so the I'd never play guitar before and, of course, had told camera. Don't worry I you know I just like him without limits. I was not in the living runner, but I figured it out it up the story job I promise will for them from me.
people. Yes, there will be some, ah some guitar players who see this and know that I'm a fraud but for most of the audience, No one believes that arm wrestling him and knows how to play guitar and so that that was actually much harder training them without limits the physical told without limits was uncomfortable, but the mental grind of trying to make as an adult to learn? Guitar city, you look like somebody who's expert at it I mean I contemplate a piece of shit passed for sure, but somebody who is supposed to be great added that was very complex, but I had the Peter frantic Nancy Wilson there, Help me. In addition, obviously camera has another situation where, like with the Dustin Hoffman and Robert the Euro,
I put my head down and pretended that I was supposed to be there as it were to intimidating. You know to be what I when I was in high school, I parked cars and my claim to fame. fifteen street fisheries and therefore Larder Florida was that I once part Peter Friendly car so ten years later he's help had changed my departure strange because I'm so tense pitiful I'm breaking guitar strings on nearly every strong, because it I'm just trying to figure it out. You know and are so near that a great deal of patience- and ah this is the great guy- actually is favorite twenty first century movie than with central, and it is now really as I think it is for a lot of people. I I think it's really.
credibly rewatchable. I think it's I don't know it just it just sits all the things I like, but what's the Brad Pitt piece of it? I actually think he might have been too famous for the movie. At that point, I think the fact that we're a kind of discovering all the people in the movie was really helpful for the actual movie right image, Jason. They added some stuff, came out and abandon the couple things you'd been a couple things, but I like in that kind of movies, so is like: These are all these people that were now my life. You know, the great gray point Yoke is it it was about them discovering sounds to me. You want to have some kind of a pig quality, its audits, because Brad Pitt at that point. He so famous that I'm gonna be words Brad Pitt playing wrestle him in a rustling raises the thing, but the though stuff that camera does not move where he dwells on this. Second entire rolling stone experience he has
covering all these bans makes this amalgam bad Stillwater, but then has the recall of like when we go to this place in San Diego. It's gotta, look like this in the backstage has to be this way in the guy work in the doorway. he's kind of a freak. How does that? he's a writer and or border, and I can guarantee peace. This is entirely everything you remember like albums. Did the posters on Betty had in his bed like those words are numbers that those were his props I'm in the movie, the there ah yeah. I was outcomes where that his albums right giving orders on rumours, posters and all that stuff was, is and ah he's a total outlier. You know tat is I don't love you around. The judge speak with them, but could not be a sweeter more affable, a curious, loving individual, but here
mind is on a different level, his capacity to not just remember stories but appreciate why their valuable That's the thing that makes so many moments in almost famous acting indelible is because it captures what's valuable about what's valuable about, ah Russell alike, being on the roof and honest thing. I'm a golden got is not Brussels experienced its the fans, experience right that they got to be there for that, and you'll see the shots. Go to the fact that the part that summit is there a response. The end is the hilarious part, that's Cameron, remembering and encouraging it at the same time, da I just I am unending affection for him Jim Over did a really good pike asked about the making of the moving us anyway
it was where everybody interviewed in it just like had so much affection and admiration for the movie, and just just like a sets of gratefulness that happened die of total you're out of your life, for people are costing about it. Like me, it may where are you going to worm? You trust me I've had the other version as well on their their college students. Now, who are discovered this movie and occasionally I'll get my somebody you know We meet their side. I on the street, like that, looks like he. Maybe once could have been, you know and its because they were just introduced almost famous than they love it yeah. You know the character of rustlers inscrutable to recycle, Ah unknowable? Why not look? I don't look like him anymore and
voice an incredible hair, mustache guy, but I mean who is that your own errors at a wig was my own here and provide greater destroy your accomplishments yeah, it's a robust asthma. Now it was stylized by professional hair stylish, but that was that was my hair. When I say this with my kids, sire. I make my daughter's now sixty my since thirteen, but we're going to need it. Honor was like I had how old how old, before we spring, almost famous manner. I think we did it when Sex, it was like me like: could she love music and she was a biddy lead? So she knows you as Russia, with two, but it's like that. I'm lonely ominous that next generation they met. While when you go on Amazon, you Netflix, it's always there near the top. There is a reason for its people.
Check it out. I Gregg those treatment services. They know what they're doing there they're putting stuff imposition that they know. People are in a cook up. They got good algorithm tat. While you were in the cup other scenes where'd. You found the concert scenes of a second Detroit burn I forget it was like some. It was like a five thousand persons data, though you guys, are actually like playing or pretending a playwright while wished There was, I want to say it was a place for the palladium, an ally, but I could be wrong that had fifteen hundred that they actually filled up with fifteen hundred extra and ah I I've had some interesting experience is performing, but it became abundantly clear why rock star can become insane tv and battered tending to be rockstar, not knowing that I can actually play the instrument of about a pretended to play when we walked out, and there was a blackout
like little Flash is here and there and the music starts in the black the lights come up in the audience goes bonkers chose thinking about it right now. You better believe every one of those people thinks there are living God, because also they created, they created the music they created that moment there curing lists, ecstasy. Her fifteen hundred people, fifteen thousand people a hundred thousand people whatever it is It would be really hard to compartmentalize that way you can see I so many them end up doing like substances develop our farms or that has had a match. The rush of of that two hours can't I've been on stay had been placed on Broadway note, the rush of the live experiences, so different from.
they said creating a moment of ecstasy. I think Jason Lease character says something like better in the movie, I'm an eternal on, or something like that is right. I, if I don't turn a minimal, make sure they turned on to that that Ah, ah, ego that arrogance, the ownership of your capacity to bring life to somebody else is that's the total headgear Sarah mean you're. I don't know how anybody manages its incredible thing about Peter Frampton, I remember a comes alive. I came out and the normally pressure, You must have been under such a young age. We could not be a sweeter person in the world right present, honest affable capable.
we're gonna shit on the guitar I saw last year in the garden, and ah it is so that means to total outlier, because in that moment, while pretending fuck yeah, I am a God. It was interesting that the four years, the bare one of the best ideas for a movie, was like a deep dive into abandonment, dynamics of a bed, but nobody pulled it off now. Neither documentaries have taken up this century since some really good music documentaries. That dynamic great thing which ones would you recommend the Eagles one is unbelievable because our yoga history they address, one is basically because one of the bands, I think he modeled Stillwater after definitely that so, but that whole dynamic of fry in Henley. I think he took fur fer, a rough
Fbb right like that whole, like wait, a second I thought I was supposed to be the guy, but you're becoming the guy. I don't like this and you know that you go for which you seeing sports pvc with basketball teams. You'll see it. When I write a young team that has two superstar, There's that little tug of war, whose team as this, but it did that created and about music journalism was the evolving and criticism, and could you be is critical anymore, if there's all these different relationships in the lesser banks care to have no half ones in like three scenes, it so important. For that famous it's a great movie. I think it's time a scientist I think, especially because it set backwards them of he's. Gonna live for a hundred years. It was oppression in the way to a talk about Iraq, journalism for sure and actually cultural criticism. I think I saw mainstream cultural tradition,
and were leading newspapers, would give space to long format. Criticism that wasn't about a numerical value for the art or wasn, some supper thumbs down. It wasn't a review, critical analysis. I think he became increasingly aware that that was going to be difficult because Ah, ah, didn't the avenues for making spaceport anymore, red innocent, I remember for having a conversation with bad time magazine critic reached Corliss, yes, and he lamenting the arrival of the thumbs up in thumbs down. the notion that something had to either be worthy of your time are unworthy of your time that we could come modify everything whether or not it was a ten dollar that you should spend your time on or not and take this person's advice and if you find somebody who's, general aesthetic imports to yours and keep relying on them.
Rather than all being a source of conversation and contractual essay and then this is a way for all of us to relate, even if it does not successful on the ability to describe why it's not successful is, I think, a healthy part of having a thriving culture and yes in the conglomerates. It's me your problem, because you know the outward that we're honour the distributor, the distributor that we use also happens to be owned by the company that owns the magazine. That is going to do the review on it. So the number of ways you can get some sort of main stream, authentic, ah, ah ah criticism life and back since my finger become narrower now, yeah Twitter has helped, I do feel a little uttered. Forty forty words. A hundred forty character is, there are a hundred sixty whenever he asked
yeah whatever it is now that plus the screen shots of things, different people wrote Now you got only wants that. I as it did that's why podcast said one of the reasons is the kind of gains because there's actual nuance in a conversation versus stuff that can get screenshot it well. It is nice that there is typically whether it's a teenage rejection or rebellion or a social rebellion. There there's always some kind of correction, so there's short format platform that becomes popular you can guarantee. There is some said nineteen year old out there thinking you know what forget this is a man for only two, our conversations. Okay, and where did nothing but grey areas Uganda
be able to leave that there is a great feature of humanity and exit from one of the things, notable that strangers in the reason why I think one of the reasons why I think it'll keep attorneys it's about burgeoning adolescents and every generation goes through that every generation has crashed down the doors of the agenda. She just ahead of it and we all get to arrive into adulthood at some point, so there will be an endless stream of kids. You know, I think, can relate to doing it under the circumstances, the camera that well or, at the very least fantasize. It also has an all time high. amending and, alas, regular and media have your fuckin channels in your close to the end as they are right. I guess I didn't get what I felt like that it's yeah they want to resolve it. So much is it's. It's really about loving something right. That's up to move at the movie is in
that last seen were his equity rule about music in your character, says turns, is turned his chair out everything like that's what the movies about its its automatic he's no other people. Are they care about? Otherwise, this music? In this connection there with each other, that's why the movies can live on four hundred years, because I think I think on you know, there's not a lotta movies. There's great movies, like I love Boogie Knights, errant bugging aids, is gonna, be run around Here sooner. I write it slow, its Greece, it there's dart stuff on it. I don't know what the next generations can dig it out, but almost famous, I think, a lives, the morning shade do now. If you want an award for the amount you are what an Emmy I really appreciate it. You This is U unleashed in this in the show its idea. He's gonna like they put a chef, they put a chef Africa. they or their lectured up just cut, appears to be cancelled.
You got a kid. I have heard leg explore the studio space agencies like everybody's, but saying this, but it just seems like you're having absolute blast on the show. It's really fun watch. Well, Frazier and the truth is playing. Him was much more nerve racking from even ah, then anything I've experienced certainly on film. In a long time, just because the complexity of this thought and the speed with which he delivers, it is a challenge in their eyes, I think that quickly I dont speak that quickly. I dont know how to manage the heightened circumstances that some like him, managers with that kind of a plan.
He does so. My attempt at playing him was just like up sweaty effort not to get fired. My new the character was bad ass. When I read, I thought the in screwed ability of his motivations in environment was going to be fascinating because we're trying to open the power dynamic. So we don't know where he sits in the power and it's gonna make it difficult for people to figure out where it where he fits in they're gonna, be it's me harder for them to be manipulated by people can be harder to tell whether or not he has any kind of persons stake in it All of those things will work to his advantage in earth than this ambitious kind of awe chaotic, ah restructuring in the power dynamics. That being said,
I dont know many people who speak the way that he's written. So when I read those monologues, part of the thrill for me was trying to figure out what kind of person would actually think. That's an ok way to get through life. They asked I've just ok bill. That's it Common you made, it makes me think about polar bears are two different things about labelling. Who really you know with the level of competence and and and dexterity and he's always super present, he's never plain to find the future living too much in the past. He is in the moment, and so for me, what its work as an actor was just to grind out understanding. The text has just so. You know, spending weeks after, saying and again and again trying to uncover the different twists and turns where he thinks the story is in that and then
executing that on the day, while you know Mimi is doing some kind of complex camera work and stuff, and ah, ah, it was a bit of a high wire act from aid. But, ah here again you get a chance to do so. Then, like that at this point in my career wish was absolutely phenomenal. Is phenomenal I've been really enjoying its also show they had to reinvent twice right. They had to read bite it before they even started filming it, because you know, though the bats circumstances in the country had changed to the point that it had to be reflected. Its is one and then then now you start foaming season to us and there's a pandemic so, in their first episode, there's like this new year's Eve Party from like a year ago and now I'll send you gotta. I guess fast, even seen the second upset you, but it's got a fast forward, but well that's what that's what I get for train right, a show about, ah hitting a movie,
regular already newsworthy Bob had spread passage that there really is what morning news shows have to every day is Tenet unforeseen circle. Dances and deliver it an accountable way. That's also entertaining and. ah so consequently, there saddled with that particular during such a tumultuous time in America last three years, in order to maintain that attention to their ambition, they had to rewrite stuff all the time and a conversation. There, the involved run me to move in the times that movement. It was a bombing so rapidly that I think what they wanted to do was humanised the voices
trying to navigate in real time as well when things started to ship so alarmingly in Margaret it became pretty clear that aid was very difficult for us to continue trawling and be normal was changing again and the writers we're gonna have to attend joy. and I can remember getting that first episode of season two and reading a man's needed. At the end, just the hair on the back of my name ended up thinking about now. God were already telling the story well were still in the midst of it. This is going to be harrowing, and ah they want
it was pretty strange to go through all of these various protocols that the arm epidemiologists said put in place for a said. safely, ah make it the season and then play characters to warrant yet aware, I'm coming soon army right, and they therefore, like is, is the water going out right now? Are you there? still at that stage in their understanding. Meanwhile, for us to get on set, we had to be tested twice that day, you know. So there was one of the things you asked to do is an actor is to be as well
you don't want to be self conscious as an actor right. You want to be able to kind of channel the story and the characters and story, and when you are told that you have to be self conscious all the time in order to not get yourself or somebody, sick, at a very strange thing, to manage both at the same time being Ansel, cautious and, of course, Corey is not itself transposing it off so he's I ran after its guy you're, precisely and I'm a very soft eyes person so that the complexity of of doing those two things at once was certainly the formidable here with Corey they need scenes were like he's Had a charity golf classic just talk and hit blasting stranger needier drives the price at which they have been more rational confidence situations Miller.
want him wing and empowered by the idea of one about every hope or night has taken everyone's money and laughed at his ass off like well. You have certainly He met a lot of the guys that I've miles for you know those whose, if he is he's a gamer, and he's somebody who's interested and displaying the full extent of his arm in both both is like an intellectual prowess, but his has any operate under pressure he will eat like wants to be in every clutched situation effects. I I secretly think that maybe one motivations to pursuing a level playing field. Is he hates the fact that he might not be succeeding in the most difficult environment possible because not everybody gets a fair shot at doing and he hates the fact that is,
agency and privilege that comes from being born, the way that he is actually given him a leg up. He wants to show that doesn't matter who is? opponents are in any circumstance whether its young ping pong or managing and network he. He has that those Geller Belief and come in his own dexterity and ability that he wants on display at all parts. Did you have a network executive say to you? Hey? Did you mind hoary after me, who is his own irrational confidence, executive, huge step, thought crime about her. I did not, but I know that my agent is futile bid, calls from several high profile people who imagine themselves as being a Corey ACT like more curious as to whether or not I model, but on that
I didn't model on anybody, I'm all the carrier at her writing for the character that was fascinating and you need well, there's a little there's a whiff of the of the lawyer and spotlight. Well well yeah I've heard of another kind of thing tat. You know the story of very Eric Mcleish, the guy, in spite so we're moving. Yeah great Movie Tom Mccarthy's phenomenal, I shall make your agenda everybody's in that it's just spectacular, but when he saw me now, that part and I've known him around New York for twenty years or so so he said he said. Would you be interested? sport- and I read it- I was like- seems douche manner, and I really want to play that because now let me tell you the story, so this guy, surely turn. The news came out. Ah, he started going to work and
panic, attacks and would have to go to the bathroom and throw up, and he got to the point where he couldn't go into the officers. Wife said Nick should see a psychiatrist and he goes to a psychiatrist, and within you know. A short period of time reveals that she had been trade upon in the last sentence young man, and so in his mind he thought he was doing the one thing that would actually give their families victims some kind of ah relief aid back. You know, listen you! The laws are get you. The police are against. The community is against you, the churches, against you. You get twenty five grand and sit down with the Bishop and as a Basque, you're gonna get so to hear
mine. He thought he was like understanding the system correctly and making sure that the victims were provided for in some way show when it came out and he was sort of painted s arm. The bad guy or enabler you know in some way. I think it was incredibly confusing to it and also in this article that I read he not long after he was in therapy divorced. Is his wife and married his therapists and and there She said. Well, I can't treat you and be in a relationship with you on, at which point she broke up with him and he sooner for malpractice so time he Hellas. Yet Tom tells me all that. Stop any says, but I'm not gonna give you any dialogue. The support that you just have to know that that's what's happening underneath that's the kind of person and for me there was an incredible
ration of the technical said this kind of abuse it really screws with your sense of self esteem. It frees with the how you trust people, how you believe in people and you and putting yourself into situations that or are on your entire life, are just riddled with bad possibilities, but ass, an automobile bennets of good stuff It was good to see you. I know you have now congrats and every day with the morning show, and God we finally did this may do I look for the next. I met our take your dogs do Derek and build screwed up and thanks to calculate new police. This package will be back on Thursday football, probably more for bar and then something
see.
Transcript generated on 2021-10-11.