« The Bill Simmons Podcast

William Zabka on 'Cobra Kai,' and a 2020 Sports Repodders Recap With Bryan Curtis and Jason Gay

2020-12-25

The Ringer’s Bill Simmons shares some early NBA reactions before giving out his Million-Dollar Picks for NFL Week 16 (3:00), before he is joined by actor William Zabka to discuss Season 3 of ‘Cobra Kai.’ They talk about making the platform switch to Netflix, successfully rebooting a classic franchise, Zabka’s character (Johnny Lawrence) switching from antagonist in the film franchise to protagonist in the TV show, Season 3 excitement, and more (23:00). Finally Bill talks with The Ringer’s Bryan Curtis and WSJ’s Jason Gay for another edition of the Sports Repodders. They discuss COVID-19’s major blow to the sports media industry, how sports media innovated when there were no sports to cover, a look back at the 2020 NFL draft, sports gambling permeating mainstream sports culture, the evolution of the relationship between athlete and journalist, and more (56:00).

This is an unofficial transcript meant for reference. Accuracy is not guaranteed.
Come up, COBRA Kai, the sports were potter's million dollar packs, it's one of the goopiest pack ass of the year. It is a holiday present to you. It's all. Next This steps of the bill. Simmons pack ass, is presented by Chase Freedom, chase freedom flexes the newest credit card from chase. Give you new ways to earn cash back, you're always get five percent. Cash back and travel purchase through Chase Annual also earn five percent on quarterly bonus The girls like gas station- that's good for me, because I have had to make a couple road trips to Arizona for soccer. For my daughter, don't ask, but let a gas station stops. And I gotta stop. I would say three gas station stops they're back at some point, so you know those when we take care of find new ways to earn cash back at chaise, dotcom slash the Ringer Quarterly This category spending limits by any attacked with each quarter cards are issued by
if you mortgages Bank and a member of the USA restrictions limitations, apply, offer subject to change brought about by the ringer package, work where I put up a new reward chapels with Chris Ryan. This week we did the born identity and action classic. I also on the ring a dish pack ass Wednesday night stage. Cobain I break down the challenge double agency. I conical show the fifth american professional sport. I promise you there is no better challenge recap. I rarely say things like that, but it's true. five minutes. We make a tunnel jokes, we break it down like it is the game. Seven they may find us, and it is just the peak. The pinnacle of challenging caps nobody's doing better than us, it does not have
Why are we doing it? I have no idea, I just missed your Kobe. That's it coming up. Billy Zabka finally took thirteen years. We finally got him out of podcast he's going to talk about COBRA Kai, which is premiering on Netflix season. Three. We are breaking that news season. Three repeat season: three of my son's favorite show will be premiering on Netflix on January. First, they are dropping it. It is going to be a binge watch extravaganza at where to talk to him about that and how the character of Johnny Lawrence evolved over the last thirty five plus years and and it's a really fun one, and then we are going to talk to Brian Curtis of Jace.
A K. The sports were potter's, break it down the year and sports media and at the top, reducing million dollar picks it's all next first project. I believe that that sports second Wanna talk a little at the aims and our picture. At top, I wash the in the effort to stay nights, never want to react to the first Aims, but you know the basic reactions. Brooklands gonna be awesome. We try to tell you that they're in the the mega previews
so. An ass John Moran is gonna, be awesome. We try to tell you that went to the wizards are gonna to be a after him. I was really impressed by their battle with the Sixers, which the six end up winning cuz, I'm be just to go to the game and Scotty Brixx Wood and bring Robin Lopez in, but in general, the Westbrook BO combo was as advertised bill. Look like he's going to be a top ten guy this year and Westbrook did all the stuff usually does Philly heard you think for them, as they actually had some movement and some offensive know how, at the end of the game, which was something that did not happen once during the bread brown hair so in general, I thought that was a really fun game and I love the chemistry, the wizards love talent. Hence they were the whole bench was into it and I like their team. I really do. I think that, as a chance to be a top, sixteen in these box out dead, the holiday addition to the box. She could see it. He was. He was really good in the south. Ex had
possible time to imagine upturn, whether they should have given up forty picks firm? Will, I guess, we'll know enough. in June and July, whether that was a good idea but he's a problem and when ya, displaying like the way he bade the fourth quarter? They feel like the most unstoppable team, led the Celtics, how that surrealist, peggy weird lineup choices. Just in general, like that, the benches dose body, but the tops in addition, Tristan Thomson who didn't have a precision. you could see during their game how important he's gonna be from a defence rebounding in point, it was even guardy address a few times, but he is a crunched, I'm guide for the South Dixon. I just think he's more viable toward the South ex need to be as Uclaf team. The garden Heyward was so, and Herod had a good game on Charlotte you now he had twenty Saxon, I'm sure he's gonna have a good fancy basque buses that GMO in twenty five games,
but for what the South ex need. They need Cambric come back and they need this to be paid him in jail and steam, and that's what it looked like and that first came to be the only two Other ones really jumped out of me, I'm not going to overreact to the jet, the jazz killing the trailblazers. I just think the troubles are going to have games like that, where they just look. Terrible king's nuggets was fun just because Tyrese Haliburton played so many that's and was so important non both ends and in fact he had an awesome box. Garbage actually watched the game. He looked like a five year veteran and you know and nobody has gained more minutes, foxes out, their Bagley seem relatively healthy and then Bob said in the nuggets and over time a game. They should have one. Regulation, but the house burn in and James Wiseman, those two guys. I thought they were
too bad guys in the draft. I would had Wiseman first than Albert and second, and I think that's how it's going to play out over the course of the season. I think those two if you saw Wiseman in that first game, you'll, see my Christmas to he's. Just he's just a big athletic guy that doesn't really exist, that much of the NBA in the fact that he didn't go first and that Minnesota decided take Edwards over on Edwards was fine in the first game. Look pretty good, but the fact that they kind of beard away from the possibility of a town's, Wiseman combo the whole NBA should be sending. Thank you notes
so I was excited for the kings. Do because I thought that was a fun one to watch than the other, the other kind of takeover, just the suns doing what we thought on paper that they might do with Chris Paul on that team, close game back and forth crunch time and they got really good shots down the stretch and Chris Chris had his patented chat, setup Booker for another one book or made a couple clutch runs. Bridges is really good that game too, but in general, Phoenix just a SEC, playoff game that can they judge were regular, execute the stuff they wanted it. So I thought that was encouraging. Fund Dallas, you know you got an awesome. Luke a game is the last in issues can be tougher them without pausing s because they die really have another Lee plan that roster, so my fear for them
Is it pausing? Us is a while aware this puts a lot of pressure. Luca early look is gonna, have to put up huge debts and carry huge workload, and if he gets hurt for even two weeks, that team could be in trouble with the boy asked the west is is much much better than he is to be signed way. Look there. Christmas day games. My aim is four and a half at home against New Orleans. I think it's a stairway worlds as one of those times. If you catch him on the right now they so much off. They look great who of my Emmi how long it's gonna take for them to a kind of click back at the bubble. Mood but stay away from now and broken in Boston. Broken is favoured by three in Boston and I should think this should be a pickup I would not bet it, but Brooklyn beat the hell out of them in the preseason and in general. Brooklyn just looks like one of the three best teams in the league and needs to stay away. Dallas and the Lakers.
like the energy, the Lakers on the first name, but when you get the rings that screws you up, I also really love what I saw from Dallas last night. The only what I would think about Eric is doing Dallas with the over doubts two hundred and five two two hundred and twenty seven, but stay away from that. One clippers nuggets. You know the coopers. Look really good on that. First, that ass I had three months. Rest and he was outweigh meaningless. Danvers attain this seems like be revenge game for the clips, but I just felt that stay away to the only one I like the bucks to beat the workers, their minus five sixty just be the warriors the workers without Draymond and all the weird pieces they have no chance, buster buckskin put Gerard occur.
take them out. I don't see any way the warriors win this game, so we are going to carry the bucks over into a parlay for million dollar. Pics very excited do this. We had a tough week, I'm really not our pics with us, four hundred and forty nine thousand dollars. You know why cuz the freaking Steelers what dick heads they blew that they blew? My giant parlay I'll have to do is win by three and Freaking Ryan. Finley beats them and Ben looks like he's a hundred thousand years old, and it's really frustrating we're going to make our money back and then this week, but from parlay so we're down two hundred and fifty the seas and we're making it all back. I am looking at a million dollar parlay for weak sixteen nfl. It fell. That involves an MBA Tim and here's. What that looks like our dimension, the bucks or minus five sixty just to beat the warriors, so we have them in place with the Arizona cardinals.
Are playing the 49ers so just been completely ravaged and now we're down to Cj Beathard with Josh Rosen his back up at QB and are just trying to make it to the finish line. Now they have had the all time year from Hell, Arizona, only five point favorites. I don't totally understand it, but I two hundred and thirty two win the game. I kind of hate, Benny and Kliff Kingsbury, but I just been Kyler can win this one x, college back. I think Tyler is could to be a major fantasy football wrinkle this week so marked that one down are modesty, thirty same thing for the bears man four hundred against the jaguars. This is just a fade of the jags. The jags now have a chance to have the number one pick all they have to do is not scrub the last two games, I'm sure they'll play the worst quarterback possible I'm sure they'll be scratching deeds with minor injuries, and they just did the jested them such age favour posture, Bisbee has reactivated
A biscuit shooters now, Obi hilarious! If, if she biscuit lost the jaguars and then on top of it gave the jets number and pick back, I'm noting that, but I'm not afraid of it, I am. I'm throwing their men and then the last one is the bills minus three thirty. on Monday night against the new NGO patriots, there some point favorites the pitcher, thus defined Gilmore the Patriots cannot score. The patriots have came Newton, whose workload I've Cadiz and ten picks this year and sharing completed nine yard pass. they just offensively have looked like they passed the point of no return with Gilmore, plus other guys that outfit out before the season there friend said and has no chance of containing Josh rose and insular bitter revenge game for the bills to because they are, they barely beat the pats. The last time. I think there were surprised by the pets.
clearly when heavy game plan and all that stuff, but I'm all it on this bills team. been riding them. The last couple weeks are in a million dollar pics. I just feel like this is a team that knows they have a chance to win the Superbowl they're, not fucking around anymore, and they have a chance to get a two seed and they're going to try to add down and I'm not worried at all about throwing them at. So, if you put the bucks to win the cardinals bears and bills to win, all four have to win. It is two hundred and seventy three Sophie Bet360 seven thousand dollars and that you win one million dollars, ugly marked out the next one. Indeed, minus one half of the stairs, normally, I would say, watch out for the stairs here: they're home their home dogs, that's ridiculous. When's overreact into the last four weeks. This is a kitchen sink game for them get ready for
some reverses some free flickr, some vague pods, all the stuff. You do in your backs to the wall. Here's the problem there have argued, it somehow the eighth and waited DV away. But here's thing they put the easy schedule in the league by DV away their first in defensive de, but they put the thirty first ranked office Debbie away and they ve lost to their best offensive where's, just over the course of the season then, on the russian side for further, as their thirtieth and rusty veto in the eye test backs it out. They just have no danger guys at all, then, on top of it ruthless burgers. Apart now lasted for the last four weeks. Last nine weeks he's under sixty yards yards per attempt, which
It plays a cry for help because that means you're getting no big place at all. That means it's all short stuff, and maybe to that that is the candidate territory his last for games, his five point, one. Our its attempt, which basically mean scream, passes and you in the immediately threw it through its somebody. We get no d plays at all. I test back, sat up as well. He can't throw about deep anywhere six touchdown six turnovers. I don't know how they're going to move the ball against Indianapolis last four weeks they beat Baltimore one thousand nine hundred and fourteen. It was Robert Griffin who gave them a pick six. They scored twelve points, otherwise, next five days later washed in this course seventeen points they lose them next week, fifteen points to get Buffalo loose them next week. Cincinnati seventeen points they lose
many on the flip side with India in these last six weeks they ve been really explosive. Thirty four points against Tennessee: they want. They beat Green Bay in eighteen, thirty, four thirty one score: twenty six against Tennessee, but got killed, beat his two twenty six twenty be vague. Is forty four twenty seven be used in twenty seven? Twenty, I just don't think Pittsburgh can hang from points standpoint with India and is just in the mid twenties are higher. Regain now thereof adds rivers his last six games, twelve touchdowns, to interceptions what Eight Kubi rating and almost eight yards per attempt he's been really get because he has good tat. Ants he's got Heinz and tailor both who can catch by the back field and are poor. get when they had the bar and then and then his regime,
he wilds last rejuvenated. The last few games wrinkle become a fantasy wrinkle. I think it is better and if you're making the case of upstairs bounce back game, nobody thinks they can winners of the great there. Never so the other thing. With this Pittsburgh game that totally a must win game for them. The game next week is the must win game with the brand, so you talked yourself into hey. If we, you know obviously trying to win every game, but they can't talk doesn't that we live this when we could still beat the Browns to win the division title next week. So I just like the spot for Indy, I think they're better. I think the line should be three mark that one any by one and one slash two x, one in Saran, Seattle, Rams record last week you get them on a bounce back where the worst lasted the earth kinky fired up after you take a giant shit like that against the jets than you
How can you should make the class? I think the rams our planet in everyone's through our goths awful sound? I talked about it on Sunday. but he's the parlor murderer. Reason when things go bad, it's easy because he's playing off all and then they fall apart. So I dont think that happens to be surrounded. Think Seattle. Defence is good enough to that kind of performance at Benny Look at Seattle. The rams are sixth, sixteen February Seattle, Snipe, sierras, much much worse. Defence in the ribs Seattle has a tendency to just let these teams hang around even happened last week with watched with Dwayne Haskins, who ends up a strip
that they would know mask somehow mislead Seattle to a loss because he has become back thing happened in its weight asketh. Would you do it? So? Yes, he ask edge of this year, twenty fifth against dvd way. I don't think they ve looked at good fur really two months, and I think the rams are better. The Rams they beat him you're, getting the rams plus one and a half in Seattle, and the line really should be a pickup, because I think the rams have more talent. I am ready for like a ferocious defensive effort from them and then come back. I forgot the thing with the rams they can run the bar. yours is good. They just need to go back to run the bar on the bar play action run. The bar play action run the boy On the ball run, play action just go.
To who you are. I don't know what happened them in their jets game. I it's hard to get fired up against a win the steam in December, so another it happens again. Then the next one is fairly Minus two and a half in Dallas Dallas is key in this tale and where they actually looked. Ok, last week's, maybe thou soon as their defences awful, I think hurts is legit. I watched at all as equals game. I may not hurts, I think, is a legit game. Breaker quarterback really like him, and I thought he energize the ear. In a pretty unique where you could see on the sidelines and new, even their defence looked livelier. I just they like playing with him in for him. So also think the energies that they could be hilarious This came out where we seventeen, you could have a cigarette
nation where this is a loser, lays down matched by the way. Whoever loses this game is out, but in weak seventeen you could have a situation where the eagles who we are gave up on who art thought were dead. Does it we wrote him off now this and they could be alive rather for nine and would washed in six and eight and if washed, in the zoo I should be sixty nine. Indeed, as we find that one and then you look at weak seventeen guess who plays each other the eagles and washed it so a loser leaves town match, but they just have more time to Dallas, and I like a like the spot, for that. Nearly question for me is whether
you mess with the Eagles two and one slash two and open the door open for Doug Peterson doing all his dumb two point: conversion shit and missed extra points, all the things that always happen them or you just grab the one hundred and forty two with them. So if you potentially, you can do the Eagles one hundred and forty two and then you could bring the bus. Into it: five, minus five sixty and that's, plus one or one think I like that when he was box put the into and to parliament's rights, are marked out and out last one longshot parlay the week with the Falcons plus four forty against the chiefs, and we had the Vikings plus two sixty on Christmas day against New Orleans and your breeze, who
like he's going to kill over at anytime. I am going to recommend this as a minor spreading, because it's one thousand eight hundred and forty four, so you can put one hundred dollars on this and when a thousand eight hundred and forty four so marked down some scenario with that falcons biking. Sorry, it's time he million dollar picks for week. Sixteen, including and be a first one, Indianapolis minus one and a half over the falling apart stores. We are putting three hundred thousand hours on that one. We also putting two hundred thousand hours on the rams, plus one and a half over Seattle, and we are putting two hundred thousand hours Philly just to win par.
Ed with the Maki bucks to be gods they, whereas, but in two hundred thousand on that too, in two hundred and one thousand hours we are doing a longshot parlay of just a sprinkling. Ten thousand hours falcons, plus four forty VI kings, plus two sixty to win to win a hundred eighty four thousand dollars and then the big one. The big million dollar parlay your big million dollar a holiday parlay were putting three hundred and sixty seven thousand hours at plus two. Seventy three adds a need. Bucks cardinals bears and sales are for half the win: a million dollar parlay box Cardinals bears bills so we're down to fifty thousand for the season or winner back the snake. Happy how this I hope you enjoy. It
our parlay we'll take a bag and gets you Billy's after our at I'm joined by the age was Billy Zabka. I don't know what your exact age is at this point, you look almost exactly the same. I don't know how you pulled it off. You are one of the stars of a show that has become my son's favorite show, The time I was really nervous, when it came out that they were rebuilding it, that they would screw it up that this would be bad cause. I love the crowd, a kid. I love the franchise and yet the show as a phenomenon when it went Netflix this show went to another level I felt like it was beloved, but but just explain what it was like: the shift being on the Netflix page and other people that street, two it yeah. It was still happening. It was like you know, surf in a way that all the sun behind it came this scene, monsters, tsunami rays of the sun had just been
Are you really can see it happen and it was kind of almost like a tsunami away kind of sucked out? There was a kind of funny analogy, but it was like you know. After after we had a breaks, mutable we're shop in and around to find a new home. There was this: downtime when it felt like maybe see noses, gonna, land somewhere else and then Netflix grab that which is where we always wanted it to be from the beginning. We were so thrilled, just like God. I was happy to see you know if it would show up the family category or the comedy category. The action category that arouses excited a scroll through Netflix and find it somewhere rate and I came out in it was in. You know, and there was a season wanted to which is already down for a while, so we know, but they knew it we're doing on that and grabbed the world man and all of a sudden it was there is overwhelming still as Amy still seeing, how the echoes of the shower reaching corners of the earth in it's a new stage for sure
yeah, you had right after got, or maybe right before it got released or somewhere and the same time they had changed. The main page have the trend in thing an cobra. I was trending we're just weeks out at ten, and I think my son watched it five times from start to finish. She just loves it and it says it's a super Benji show, but I think that the part that amazed May in the end, I really think there's a blueprint for how to reboot franchise now we're normally like you know, gotta good examples, the bad news bears movie and they just make it again. Thirty years later, as Billy Bob Thorn is basically say movie and as they do, that bad is bears a slogan movie so in the river incorrect kid which they did with Will Smith's son. You know they change it, they put it in a foreign country, but it's basically the same premise. rebuilding it this way, but I'm catching up with these characters there, like thirty five years ago, was the aim is to do with pictures to you. What was your reaction? I was
they may rights like a three a dragon man, they took me to a mexican restaurant or they had a pitch for a new show. They wanted me with, maybe Josh Shield. I worked with a hot dog time machine. I do John Horwitz engage Losberne from held in Mars. So comedy writers. I knew their style soon. They pick me an idea that we want to talk about a show. I was ready for her. the coup Marcia X, or something like that, and then there he sat down and they just spit fired, COBRA Kai, and at my jaw was on the table. I said this is fantastic just the idea, as I said, but you know for this to happen, You have to get a lot of people to sign off you just can't imagine you know rebuilding a franchise like this, and then they said we have everybody, Sony's onboard, overbooks onboard everybody signed off and that it be start: the data needed bodies can be real yeah. You know, and I know that I wanted to know like wait. Then I d pitch was exactly season. One imagines season, one in five minutes. Ok,
You haven't heard anything about Johnny, lords or dangle for all this time, so I was grabbing on everything I could with what it was familiar to me, which was Johnny and Daniel in that story. But then these guys Miguel and Robin Salmon. This whole other world. That was completely foreign to me and I could grasp all that much thing was: what's wait, what's the tone you know Craddock his family movie, it's a beloved family movie. You know how far just go off and so on. By the end of it. I said you know as long as you don't but I don't want to do. Is I want to double down on my goodness? I gotta want to end up being the worst bad guy of all time and take a proverbial cringing the face at the end of this thing. Everybody hates me for all tat now, you're gonna be more of an anti hero and then what they said, which really help me understand the tone they said. If there was no karate kid, we could call this bad and say in the same way that Dad Santa and then I clicked in- and I kind of got it so
walked away feeling stirred and hopeful and reluctant a little bit I think, like you, know all the fans when they first saw this. He was a little bit like don't mess with that, and I heard that, Second, my spirit I know drafted as well, but there was it was guys. I love the guy's. Their pitch was so solid. They really Michelle passion about karate kid, so passion about these characters, passion about me as a bad guy. They follow me. You know the just one of the guys in the back to school yet and you knowing that they wanted to give me a chance to have a little redemption in all that was super the was you know, cried late. It or not, and so I say this they said before the half hour was up there like you in or out, said why man what's next and they say we gotta, get rough macho and I say Grandma Hannah. Yes, so that's it we're they didn't like job sketched out. The kids gives absolute my sense. Thirteen, so he's gonna gravitate to the kids characters there near his age and all of those are really well job at. If atrophy. Remember this, but I was on correlation
I read about it. Let me two thousand yeah you get on end. We data huh. The thing about cried a kid in it as one of my favorite movies, when we would have certainly in high school- and I just feel like it's an exceptionally watchful. So a lot of questions, I think one of the things we talked about was the Johnny Lawrence get a bad rap movie like you are on your side was cut off and ass. All like it like you, I wish shifted it. S kind of became a thing the internet. I think over the last fifty years and the show really tapped into that were its idea. I wish your Johnny Lawrence was that much of a villain. You must love that part, though I did man and listen. I've been fanciers for years, and you kept this like when you came out to know what year was a two thousand and five with the best sports movies or somethin. Yet again, you know you have this platform and he knows in my it was in my peripheral, karate kit and other stuff, but the guys like you and caroling Ali's catalogues wall. You know who just
Johnny lords in the critical just kept kind of like tip in the wrong a little bit Madame mean so much like when they said you wanted to know what you gonna do Bell. I said a hundred percent because, let's get out of here because you know guys like you or the guys, it started some of this conversation and all but yeah we did. We talked about that Ankara land. I always felt. Way, because I always felt let Johnny was an enormous into play. A character like that you keep, you can't go in think of him as evil just doesn't fit with your body right so get I went in and I saw the goodness it am. I tried to find his vulnerabilities. I tried to find ok the end of the movie hands a trophy in and so is not all bad he's a little redeem, Crease cheeks choked him out. So I It felt like you know he had a little bit of a redemption at the end and I am beginning Craddock into his jumped out of the franchise Rand. I was at peace with it, so I always felt like he was. He was too
Daniel, you know instigated maybe Johnny overreacted, a little baby. His training kicked in and he took things too far overall yeah. You wasn't a bad guy, so for the years that he was? You know labelled the biggest ass, all the worst villain and other things and make sure I was the antagonists, but I ever saw him ass, a pure villain. I saw crease more as a pure villain, yet, oh so that decision definitely happened. Lake we'll start out on the replace over and over again, you know you struggling wait a second. You know the man wearing off your bid. Parties, music, is the crescendo of the crane kick in the motion of Daniel and me again, all that Boeing, you scraper all away, and you see this is a shame- story may be, Johnny got a little bit of a bad rap. As far as how do you know how he is characterized for these three decades. In a year there, there is definitely
I I don't know when it shifted, but I think that the next to correct a kid movies didn't help the Daniel Sound case where it's like this guy's, a hero them by the time you get the credit three or Canada. Hopi gets is asked to reconsider the Jerry Lords piece of it, but I think it's a credit to reset I did a back, cried kid. I'm the rewards was piled that six months ago, where say like the jetty lords characters is to really good character. You know you Talkin where the eightys we had these villages and are always like super cartoonish and completely over the top. it's like the Ivan drug era of less nearing Russian, who has three lives in state, their rights and thirdly, doesn't care for APOLLO Creed dies is completely over the top and the idea was a little more nuanced, especially as an eighties character, where you have so many different, highschool movies and the high school movie is always just the worst most on redeeming asshole
right, there's always set up to take that to take them. Still there. You know, too, for the bureau to conquer. in that way too, I think you know albert came in who wrote Roddy kid? I don't know how much he thought about you know. Johnny heading in the trophy and having good sportsmanship at the end reminds me a little bit of bad boys with champagne and that's a clad in a S eye, miraculous member, that I think they kind of became friends at the end. There is a redemptive moment of e sigh and it hasn't Keller. and tell him. You know like there's a little bit of that somewhere in the script and so I mean I had to build the whole character on that moment. For me, as an actor as a person is eighteen year old kid you know. Reading the script there was like you now is about ass is kicking. Everybody's buys, got karate black boat, but nothing I connected to till the end and then like. Okay, so at its core, he's, maybe not all bad, so why dont? You know it's not the! I think there is little more two dimensional
villains doubt. You know you just hate hate, an arm was just trying to make him human. You know I just did my thing and then, of course, credit all goes to the cutting and John Avildsen in the storytelling, and you know Miyagi saves Johnny and away at the end and all the cobra Kai's and there's that moment at the end of karate kid where you know we see is directing Bobby sweepers leg and all the we're having second thoughts in there was all this kind of accident step in that and it happened on the day. I remember like when we're film in that stuff. We didn't rehearse all that in turmoil, weak it sort happen live we rehearsed those scenes, but we didn't it was held for us, a member Rob Garrison Play, Tommy came on this, one day, we were both really in the damp in his we figure out why we were so down were like that we down, because the shows coming to an end and we're going to Christmas and were finishing the movie and he's he called acting coach and said: going through some. You know. Some kind of sad is right. Now you knows Ernie. What do you think he said? What
characters going through right now, he's a well, you know were realising our our teacher? Is teaching wrong kind of thing any sooner living at your limit it? So all that if that happened at the end and John Appleton had cameras pointed from every direction and wasn't like that. At those shots up to do is just he was video. gaping like life feeder away. Was happening and then put all our together so You are a member, and I did the research for the reaction. Was pirate learned a lot of stuff about the movie? You know that it's amazing how much stuff sat there, there's been or histories bags features all the stuff in you three yourself. I know learning karate for like three months. The new and you became really good at it. Then this movie heads but- and this happens sometimes in the eighties- that can even sense when we talked about it fifteen years ago. The character becomes so staked that as an actor you're, almost like trapped by the character right. So you go and you do just one of the guys and you do care by me. Love
practice on our backs. Isn't back yo see do those two. I can't believe I screwed up by new aspects go back to school. I felt it was him in college. Basically but those two and now you're, like type cast as the air as the eighties villain area. What year but it was still the 80s, so you don't think that's happening. You know what I mean like ten years later on the nineties on my way. Maybe you do, and you know in two thousand- that you're really starting to see that for me. I was just man. I just loved acting, I love being on sat in the now. All of a sudden, you know back to school, I almost didn't, do and fine of just one of the guys I signed on to do just one of the guys in the day after I sign that they offer me the bad guy in better off dead, and I was be committed to just wanna guys like mad, I wanna go skiing with coups act. That sounds fine yeah. It is
instead of in the baking hotter zone, a desert playing Jha Gregg torn who really wasn't redeemable warming. There is nothing I can do for that guy I decided that was I get. I was like a parody of Johnny Lair bore the very idea. You know that there was a lot of crowding kid references within the movie, and I complained about that and I love it. It gives an alias. You know, caravans, Timeless Phil, now to find a look back on a scale that amateur at dinner up. I think now worked out better free or just for the debate, because I think that's a better movie them better half dead from a as third five years later at the letter legs only rarely get its and its actual, like kind of shocking that the The theme of the movie is the path that journalism teacher basically doesn't think she could as what it takes to beer order because she's a female, so she had a euro another high school as a guide approve. She has the chop suey, never about our total,
or it right. Radio dollars is an area was deadly peace, a time there was a grounds for an annual doing the movie and that we as better legs back to school. I when the equalizer in New York and I was working with Edward Woodward and do some light- really kind of drama in a robber Mitchum in all these great classic, older Spain's that I was you know just. nationals in older seasoned actors- and I was just learned so much from them and fell like kind of getting away from the team movie thing yeah and while I am on said, I get it offer for back to school and its to play the bad guy diver, and I everybody that was involved, but I was like man. This is like the third one and so Edward Woodward. On the sad I said you know, I just got an offer to do a movie. I play too bad guys and he gave me great advice. He said three reasons you take a movie, he said either the part so good. You do it for free number, two.
People are involved, are so great you want to work with them are three: if the money is not one of those, don't do it and it anyway, our than one of those I said: ok, I'm gonna go do it, but with that with that the school, I'm like. Ok, I just play too tough guys so, what, for me as an actor. What I have to do is I have to turn this guy and make em I made him the cowardly lion. I just values is gonna at the end he gets a cramp. You know through my hair out and had this kind of work. We know it and made him try to make him a little funnier and a little more in open. Pull me aside. Halfway through shooting and said you know, you're coming off to Corky Info, Can you be more there, the tough guy from cruelty kid I say very, did that so right, you know, but I loved it. I'm actually back to school at a film a movie right now, if anything of ever done fight to be on another set for a day, I would be that it was such a party. It was exactly the movie in real life I was a major major major movie
they are reared a you know, cause he had had the Caddy shack pedigree. That movie was so beloved in the eighties and anti I like back to school was just as successful as India, It was among it had yeah, I think so they get showed. Rodney is best work and when he was great in that you really carried out holding ever rose shooter and that on the set nobody My first meeting with Ronnie in Madison Wisconsin I get to the air I get to the hotel, where my suitcase is. I roll into an elevator goes up a floor. Or opens up Ronnie steps on the elevator hair sticking up in a robe crest. The eyes you know and as an iranian Billy's outgoing play in Chad, will you I know you are you doing? I said good, so what you do in euro because I gotta get to the sun. I gotta get the pot out of my love because you can handle it. That's all right. We became friends really on that. In fact, the line the trailer game, a Christmas card was a big he thought was charming. You know when those trailer but Christmas card in there Tommy lot about his life and his family in the
My party I'll, never forget. You know he was at the the head table and I was over with a bunch of the other cash and he came all the way across the room and tap my shoulder and said. I just want you to know how much it meant to me that you gave me that Christmas card right and it was really cool did, you feel like, as you headed through the night, is that the hangar verb of those three characters are just highlight casting doubt There's a looking. I know you don't expect that you expect as an actor your leg while they know you're an actor. You can play different things, but you know list the business so that their finding you know which actor people can have an emotional reaction to in this pre existing one with the sky, so I got a lotta allotted differ I said no more than I said yes and I took things that were more creative for me than they were going to be great films. You know yeah, they were just things that were fulfilling to me as an artist but I didn't really realize I was kind of change. Listen to karate kid at the same time was gaining more and more steam. It's not like it happened and it lived there. It's like you know. Hbo comes
Cable, tv, air nets- and this thing is playing HANS We need new fans, and so this kind of shadow of Johnny Boards is like throwing on my side and causing, I just had a hard time getting around that. You know they would say save flat out like could you two identifiable was his character, and you know, I always thought this and I did this music video of yours. Sweet, the leg oh, yes, but ok, so I remembered put stuff from a calm about. I was excited. You do that the that was my first time kind of like meeting this whole thing head on. This ban wrote the song. the leg in the great guys, the head of the label. Great guy, took me out play me. The song wanted me to be in the video I wanted. I'm off the boat in the sharks. I said no one that jump around with a head bent by you gimme. If you let me right it direct it. You know and have creative control of it I'll try to get all the guys back and I'll try to do something really special name. He said go for an that's! What
the lad came together, I wrote it me shouted the covert eyes came raft came in and then then, hitting the button upload on you too, but the early two thousand and seven or something it just took. people love did, it was picked up by new channels. Talk about this thing. In an hour, this time that I realize what a fan base there was out there for years, cobra kind knitting, how clubs and volleyball teams in COBRA kind everywhere and it was not You know I got a kind of looking you saw that, but I also kind of fell like men. The way I'm gonna get out of getting it side is going through the eye, the needle, like I gotta, you know hit this on their head, and so, when COBRA I came along, it was like the per storm of all that was happening over there and always happened in my career, and now I get it. I've been right away. I started and like turn inside out the writing credible start to show many coloured layers and in many ways, is a completely brand new character. Does he is thirty? Five years of life? That's been written form he just as they did
three that everyone is familiar with, so it is an exciting time with that. You know yeah. I got a nice, I feel like it all happened this century, because I remember I got the page to two thousand one and he has been a calm and maybe, within light the first I months, I wrote about the crowded kid trilogy. There was just the entire car was sick yeah words breaking down, and I got so many emails about it and people just like holy shit, somebody wrote it, somebody did it encourages it just kind of kept gotta. Remember too later the YO see launched or what your later would ever was and they had the Abbe. Jerry Lawrence rip off character, who sang relationship with the new guy they gonna. Yet, as I saw so brightly, the jailer thinks he's gonna kept girl kept going. I think that's the thing that I gotta say. Surprise me about compromises. Show was how good you were in it and it may be kind of be like Jesus Christ, like what other stuff could
guy a better. It actually kind of may me mad, because I don't think AIDS are easy character, be you ve got to you. Ve gotta basically shift somebody's perception of what the Johnny Laura's character was from there in eighty four and by you as a kind of this answer here, but also somebody that euro coins has seen a tv show. A lot like his life's, not great doesn't have great parliament has really worked out is is not a great dad is He pushed and fifty at this point or maybe even low pay and yeah he's just as never shit together. These are people that are normally on a you know is the lead of a tv show. Anagram hold off and then at the same time, their flip in March, well I'm kind of like I don't really like by chance. I filled up gravitated to Jerry was like a mind trick. I don't know how they did that as as your region like the scripts for the first season, are you like holy shit? They? This is
so it's like they pulled the thoughts yeah. It was well man it on paper one thing I think you know that they deftly wrote it that way, but it's the way into the euro, because now here we are season three going into season for and like so that that was smart. That way too everybody and Jan Rob, you know, no, let everybody sink or be known, realise those take dangled down a few pegs he's a little human may be low. Fallible he's not the superhero he's fine and then let's beat the hell out of Johnny, and given the cor's banquet from on the floor, You know, don't even give him a friend. He doesn't even have a Fisher dog. You know it he's trying to make things work. Great is a great way to come in and you know cuz. You would think it might even be the other way. Johnny owns a nice car dealership he's a successful guy. You could have gone that way and Daniel still cut it out in the valley with his mom and you know so, is really storytelling. The writing on that. I love that.
Some of the lines in some other things like, while he's really kind of kind of still, Often a jerk, and I beg you it was about diving into the soul of of Johnny in the heart of them and then putting the heart into the words coming out of his mouth and the act coming out of his body and then realizing this stuff. That was programme from Crease way back and so on the great as great acting experiment. This as an actor. You want to build up your backpack build your back story so much that was filled in already and then to just fill on top of that, but how people risk on into it in you know. Is it for me to have fans go while we like the character to help people rooting for Johnny Lawrence right now is it's a throwback for thirty years, and they weren't, you know, for the better that way, It is when I it's near the indices one at that time. The key episode which made me think the show is, can ever legs, when Hammond Daniel, actually like hang out and they ll get drunk at the bar,
Jerry therapy. I just really fun it's. I call this shit. This is cut back Maya I don't know where this is going ahead. I it was weird because watch it on Youtube. You know, which is where the show prepared, as we discuss before, like I just wasn't, used to watching things on Youtube and having like it finished and the next one come up, and but here it is kind of hard to stream on your tv, the app- and I don't I don't feel like they did a great job in general, just with the app is sometimes a real Art stuff like that, and then when I got on Netflix, especially when it had the two seasons together, it was so easy and so bingeable and you just stay with had like a little tiny cliffhanger at the end of each one hundred and sixteen, twenty yet tat any Jan Internal registered they fly by. So let s look at some mainly by such as they had nothing. I'll, just watch Africa getting ere. You pay
I gotta how many hours but yeah well, it's written. Like five hour movie carved up into turning point. Yeah, you know, and it so it's really bad at Jesse you don't a page turner and reading the scripts is the same way. Just keep going to the edges, never ends in own, while by with a couple couple big it's like crazy about an agreement. Coming back was I wore yes, yeah yeah yeah, I'm only a disease. The two were either. I know I know I don't wanna Stepan sees the trick. Is I've seen But everybody listen to this? Will now it's out, and probably at least those what happens in the air in the first one, but that was pretty agree. Save the everyday aggressive, adding to the only things either. Do we all got that spread, because we know we didn't know really was common. We knew someone's gonna happen, but when we got that script, the entire and even the makeup trailer, the stunt apartment it was like someone died in there was like. Can, you believe, was about to happen? you know, and I was like, like Unama,
usually invested in Chinese alike. I felt very proud of the new cobra Kai, Johnny built and here comes freeze in you know they have a fight, but I don't really know where that's going, we know that he starts to betray me and the season to you know everything at the show was built on his just second pulled away, no giant doesn't have COBRA Kai increases in their his kids, Hospital. It was punch in the garden. If you didn't have a season three, unlike ends here. This is the worst ending of whole track fervency body, so you had no idea of season. Three was happening. No, we didn't know we, because you two days they got out of the car, their business and then your kind of keeping our fingers crossed it. That way, well yeah they did, but they were they. They produce season. Three Sao season, three was produced by U2, but they waited for their analytics and I'll do whatever they do to figure out if they want to do another one. So we I think, a green light on a shooting of season. Three pretty soon after it air and then we went and shot season three and the Netflix acquired What are you and exclusively three? So
in an advisory. This is why Netflix Stock is like five hundred plus towers. Wherever it is smart, there lived a king cobra I, with this in two hundred countries. We wait. Could you I did you film this during Cobain her before and what was that I was able to reform our seas and three was completed last November almost a year ago or so yeah we were dying in November November December and then went into postproduction like throughout the year yeah. So no, we were we weren't there, for that is that is Allianz, isn't fair enough who alley Allie with an I don't know man I haven't seen the season. I hope so, but I can't you know Well, I don't want to buy from Arab. Who I was a very by well? You know this. Indeed, there's a phone on the
each was in appears on came from alley, but who has access to or Facebook account could Cliffhanger just promise me there's that could be legacy the nine, where there's a financial role reversal and then Johnny is super rich Daniels Data, aren't they do that's why they knew what it build. My life, I'm your one Jonas thing again let slip it upside down again. Jerry's adapted children all over the place. Tat. I thought I fairly. How much is your life changed its senses when I networks a little bit. It's been a little bit of you know: I've got kids and the family. The privacy is a little different right now, and you know I'm a little more. You know people coming up. You know to me this and that, but you know I'm at my my life is my family and my friends. So you know that's what I focus on it's great that I'm doing this work and people are responding to it. You can can't look at it
once you know otherwise I'll take you out of its like the natural baseball? You know that you got a block out. The whole story I read so you know as far as I'm concerned, it's it's it's thrilling, but a dinner. I keep my you know my kids still happen, in writing? It that's on the lesser sounds crazy. How do I get a lot of eleven seven? and that's on that? I think that's on the list is weak. They really want to see cried. He kid they bid onset of because they know Ralph and Marty in everything. But you know I never even raise them with it to see. Daddy is a you know, anything other than you know, Roger Bacon, from a baseball, and things like that. So many and I shall I say about kid where he was like five worth Daniel Russo in the movie outer showed its women when they were born at this. Is your father. Rayner is a hero, Europe's yummy the time and make my son was, I think, about five or six in he. Could he asked me a wheel
find bad guy and good guy, with legos and in the bad guy always went down hard, and he found a picture of me and Ralph in the crane kick Stan's in my office, and he goes down. What's this, it's from her a movie. I did a long time ago, and he goes all you fighting that boy I said, guys I'm fighting their pointing us. What did you win unlike well, knew nomes matters might I go many otherwise, but then he googled the trailer and saw me in a skeleton. Ass had been the crap out of some guy an offence and I didn't go through outside. I gotta get away to your little older for this carrier that I'm sure, what's he dives into the whole franchise, so be upset about the scoring in the movie. I start allow JANET, and when I was like pushed to the face was legal than it was here that a crane cake is a kick to the face that somehow legal I've still never figured it out That's a lot less. How do debate the review the the previous year, the other replay, show that was complete and they can kill them really knows it told about his neck back, you know I love that it manages to thrust his neck.
And then everybody, Russia's out, they trophy liver under eighteen, Friday. Turning it couldn't have been, but hey worked with the movie by the way when, when it did the research on that day, film that actual karate turn meant, as you guys were filming Thea the fights for the movie, which I never realized, they try to act as realistic as possible. So there's like real shit on re. That's right! That's right! Yeah, yeah, the real good! schools, all the rat all around all those kids sparring when Daniel walks in with me, Oggie and check it out now those kids fighting all that was real stuff and then you fought like a couple. Dude sat were actually like real debts. Yeah in our green, while the guys I thought the other all real deeds and the best of all, was there of Adele who plays their of Adele yeah butterfly you know that I mean you. He also invented the crane cake. If you don't know who he is yellow didn't know. Prosthetics spoke, I mean guy- and he made me look great, these big, butterfly cakes and I just stood there and through around kick and needs. flew meteor on his back
so further able lessening that's the guy Johnny fights in the semi is here, and it is a distraction. It's it's a scenario massacre, but the are your massacring was detected Miley without the use of a. I will. Listen, congratulations! It's a great challenge! Really, as I really like it. I think it so cool that it's a show like four people, my generation, your generation, that way Make sure that kids, you know that I think that's a really hard needle to thread, and somehow I didn't give you a monster, show during the holidays, I'm sure it'll be front and center on Netflix for a couple weeks. But congratulate over. They very happy that we have I own. I appreciate I get to see each about next this option
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scattered right is a special year edition of the sports, for potter's Jason gave for the wall. Street journal is here and Brand Curtis from the ringer. We done this many times over the last few years. not done it for awhile have not done it since the pandemic started. And I might as well start their sports media in twenty twenty. We usually talk about sports media trends. Things we saw impact of certain things. This had to have been the most tumultuous year in sports media history because we had to completely change that we covered spa Brad. What was your biggest anyway? Why number one is their sports media left there? twenty twenty after lay off said everywhere for me as paean to every local paper in the world. I mean it was a horrible and you can see that coming from March April, I go weight of sports completely.
Shut down and a lot of these media organisations work doing great. To begin with, this gonna be really bad for people, and I think now is sort of in the stage of a lot of the terrible things have happened. Probably more will happen. We seen as it has been as recently as a couple weeks ago and as a what. What are we bounced back as as a sports media? Do the jobs come back and if you come back, do they come back in the same way or have we SARA Ray? Imagine things over the last couple of months and they come back in a totally totally different form where they Jason. I will take us slightly more optimistic tack than Brian there. I agree that you know this forced the issue as it it didn't many many businesses, things that were struggling before the pain that makes her they weren't helped by this, and you know we saw a lot of carnage with job losses in journalism probably, but if I can like to spend,
brethren for a second? I would just say that, like I was just staggered by the way journalists inspires me adapted to this situation. Many incidents. Is your crossing over. The newsroom you saw people were used to covering, like in our lab springtime sports moving over in covering health, going into hospitals and applying from the same things that they learned covering sports, do this pandemic and other there was. but I have a very high opinion with the rigour that allowed US boys. Journalists brings in his profession, and we saw that borne out the year. I do remember vividly you know as those first game sturdier cancer and you had to go. Bear game pull the plug Ba Listen that weird. That will just remember it as the Rudy GO to air game. I mean that's just will just I don't have its own Wikipedia entry at this point, but
I do remember having conversations with people, as things were, just getting, cancel right, let's at what are we going to do, and I think the through line of this year has been not just the seismic mama. Worse, Bush down Manchester United States, but around the world and then gradually starting to come back. I think it was strangely compelling year, you know sports. We realise really rather quickly, rather vital the people's happiness. The human condition- and we saw you know what things just are: rushing back in the end of the summer and the beginning of a far l, a lot of gratitude, candidate from people that things returning, I wouldn't say nor markers. It's still not normal Niven close to it, but I think sport proved its relevancy. Throughout the year, yeah agreed that I thought on yes funny, something's,
kicked in the way I thought it would. You know we had that whole grantline ringer background, where we were always trying to create content when they were dead weeks. You down, we woods schedule ahead of time a look at that two weeks stretching August nothing's happening. We got to come up with stuff, so it was weird on the fly to be like oh nothing's happening like for the foreseeable future. If we got to come up with and everybody is doing the same thing right. You like, I was redrafting, NBA drafts and we are trading the last dance like it was the basketball playoffs or something because, like what else are we going to do? Everybody was in the habit of this. Is this is how Do it I just wonder now that we're out of that? Do we do we? Do we learn any positive lessons from how we had to ship Brian, with the with trying to get trying to get coverage out of stuff that baby is going backwards instead of forwards cuz, I think some of that stuff was positive. Some of it yeah
I agree with Jason Legged showed how smart everybody is cause you can't when you don't have basketball. You can't just be our guide, bossy and three months here you get a ride, something people were really smart. The way they figured out how to say one more thing to a Jason said when they couldn't go to the games or they couldn't go to och rumour couldn't go to the bubble in Orlando. They wrote really good stuff. Like my guy read those pieces, there were about the guy aims they weren't, even just like hey and nineteen. Seventy seven. This weird thing happen there actually about like the NBA files and they were good pieces, including on the ringer, by the way, because people are smart and they figured it out, where did it didn't come a shower of shine, a spotlight on? Maybe Chrome access in this day and age is completely overrated. I'm not saying the access of the human contacts issues like the athletes don't needed him where we thought, but this a multiple sports or potter's they're, not those interactions that people had the seventies
is there at the same there completely orchestrated by the athlete it all time. So maybe we didn't need to do it we were doing it it. It showed me off, it was over it, but should we have subtle? It is, but it's not it usually isn't Leubronn had a great game or a bad game, and I walked up to my locker and he revealed to me everything that happened and I wrote a really interesting peace that haven't. Sometimes, I guess, but it's more like the stuff. Those guys get is small, a lot of its off the record. It's over the course of a season and it comes out leg. You know six months later, three weeks later or they hear something right in a kind of casual conversation. They write a piece that a couple weeks afterwards, I think that's the thing. It's really really subtle, because when I'm reading it, I allegedly do this for living it. I'm read those pieces. I can't tell how their different only even if they waved their doing resumed. I can't I can't look at that below this other. That says, Comma said in a zoom call after the game. I can't tell the difference, but I think there is a difference
I just think it's really hard for those of us who are in there to figure it out. What does seem like we ve talked about this before to the d and texting relationship that people can have with the principles whether its edge I am a coach, a player, even an owner. You dont need that locker and access in the same way that I've never felt I've always phallic. When, when the answer to something is this is how we do it then and nobody's got to be examining that go away. The second will. Why are we doing it this way, especially with the NBA which the guys are all their own brands? At this point, they've become actors in the vanity fair in the 90s, where, if you want access to them, it's got to be on their terms, and you know it's got to be written a certain way. You might lose that access entirely
where the tables were a lot of times are going up. Where you don't go through the team anymore, you go through whoever their gatekeepers of their handler, that whoever is running PR for them and so a it's kind of all tied together. Right, Jason, absolutely, but I asked ass like if we're looking at some of the numbers as poor start to come back in the fall of ratings word down considerably in many instances and There are all kinds of variables here, and probably the prevailing issue was the fact that there is so much stuff happens and I think also people. Were at a point. There lies with. They just want to be out doing stuff like the sort of home like warranty, culture of sour dough and that's legs marching eight hours, a tv I think it turned away and by the end of the summer, early fabulous want to be out a crime. I can't help but wonder if
fact that the media was stifled tabled by the technology stifled by the events are by the fact that they just you couldn't go. All these things, not everybody could afford, or you want to send people into the NBA bubble or on the road at about him. If that kind of just crush of attention, the lack of it Perhaps contributed to that you know. Maybe there was some benefit. Maybe there was some useful nestor, the ridiculous news of what we give up and around at Super balls and NBA finals in baseball, serious where you like why four hundred and eighty five reporters here. This is crazy. This makes no sense you're all watching the same thing in the same press conferences doesn't have any value, and I I'm wondering maybe it did have something. Maybe it did contributed, general elevation of conversation about sporting event. That would make people want to turn it s interesting like so so I agree that it feels bigger and I always felt that the final
I always would try to go to the fine us every year, whether I was covering or workin for it or just to go as a fan, because I love the final specifically for like the three hours before the games and all the people on the court and just just felt bigger, and when the stakes are bigger, it puts more pressure on the performances you ve shining, a bigger, hotter spy lead and everybody- and you know I I I think that was what was weird to me about the bubble, which also kind of light. it was the same pain you every time it was just basically the teams- and you know a handful of people from the organization and the coaches and that's it, and I think that's one of the reasons that the play was so good because it was just consistency, but at the same time I missed I missed all of it. I missed the whole spectacle of the whole thing was
Gonna feel get at the Superbowl, as this is gonna, be the weirdest superbowl I've ever had. What's the super, go Bogan be like bread yeah. That's that's why we felt most vulgar as I was I was at then so is Jason at the last Superbowl this year, which was, I felt like the last big sportswriter conclave that we had before the pandemic kicked in, and I know that because I sought thirty front sports writers of the chase and is Bell concert that we know, and after some day I will name them all and embarrassing publicly began and look for being honest part of what we do is give free advertising to these things. We do critical coverage were smart about it. we break it down, we gonna give it to the owners, the players not separate. When you show up, you are giving to Jason's buoyant free advertising to the event you're making the event seem like a big deal, cause your filing copy and doing Pa Gaslight stuff. So yeah. I do think there said the last.
You never thought you'd feel nostalgia for radio row, but you do you know, like radio row will never be radio role or at least not in the immediate future, the way that it always was- and you know that whole ridiculous NASA mean how'd. You said his bride? I remember roaming, the air, corridors of the hard rock it is another, her rocks, It's been called. Nineteen thousand things both is hard Rock Stadium in Miami and, if I had said to you, We gonna be done as were really allowing time. Your reaction the time might have been given is fine, but but
now you know who turned out we, MR rather quickly, do you think, look back last nine months. Was there a big mistake? Anybody made from a sports media standpoint, sir, is there something if we went back nine months ago that we would change, because I just look at it from a ringer standpoint lake we adapted real, especially in the audio side the first time the three of us have ever done: a pike ass, where we can all see each other charter for people who are now like brine would come to my office, It would be my office as the producer and Jason. We call on the phone and then, when Jason was in bright, and I would just kind of look at each others look around in a but China listen but EDA being careful not to interrupt than ever to me it's like
easy. We never thought at any point: hey. We should just do this unzoom. Then we could all see each other and we'll just all record from our heads and I'm running a digital media company. It never occurred to any of us, and then it had to you know within eight days were like we got to keep doing podcast. How do we do it and then you kind of figure it out and you figure out this new world where it's like this is actually better turns out. Rosillo doesn't have to drive forty minutes to my house on Sunday night, so we could do a b, a game. So there's several advancements like that that I think we're helpful, but I look at like somebody something like he s, P M, where I feel like they ve been floundering this whole year for a variety of reasons, but, like I don't feel ideas, paeonies innovating, are changed at all the? Do you guys feel that way? No, I observed our universe well yeah all over Europe, each other on zoom
you do that here do ya. I don't feel that they really changed, emulate the bigger the greatest. They get. The greatest gift of pandemic ramming, which was the last dance, was re to roll out. Her was slightly sped along to roll out right at the beginning of this thing. Anyway, one Michael Jordan documentary. It was a weekly Michael Jordan documentary that went around and on and on and on and the longer the better from our perspective right agree. I watch the last answer really enjoyed the last answer: a milked it for as much content on the press boxes humanly possible, but you know some of those flashbacks to nineteen. Eighty reunited eighty four at probably good at trimmed those out. Yet it was a gold mine literally a gold mine and probably a job safer in the long run it just created so much attention
for life. In the same way, I think they would do differently if they did it over again, because what they didn't realises station, they should have had like a whole package set up at a time and just basically like how do we mind this for as much confidence possible they regional plan before the pandemic? Was there just gonna run them all over the course of like a week in a half rate? Was I find that besides Yet- and I did the pandemic made them think woe, and this was smart- hey did every week, but try to drag this out. We need something and that ended up being a really good mod on antithetical to the binge watch model, which I think people are used to what it. What did you see Jason from them, this in twenty twenty just as really quickly when you guys think of the idea, like have collapsed, dance just gone according to plan there have been no pandemic and adjust sped run out the way they intended to read it out in the interstitial time during the finals.
I would have had the same kind impact. I doubt they just have felt like such a big thundering moment, because people were star for something and it became a talking point in a way that television programmes, especially sports documentaries, and me just unheard of that same kind of impact, I would say now. I think, I think part of what gave it the impact that it had was that we all needed. You know like people, I guess we're trying it treated like it was the playoffs, but it also kept having these storylines pop up. You know, Scottie Pippin was bad about this or you don't get any figures. Rodman episode, which I felt like all of us, the Dennis Rodman stuff we ve known for thirty years, as I I know I know, That'S- derives bored by it and then there's a whole new generations. I well Dennis Rodman then, and now
forty eight hours at it it just had all these spin offs. It was really kind of crazy to watch it almost awry enemy of when I was a kid when there be like a keynote long, many serious at Richmond for manner routes in all these are. These stories would pop out from those many serious, and it would just a kind of be this on cups and think further thought. Weeks, that's what it felt like yeah was the thorn birds of sports media really was ready, couldn't wait to come back the next week and see it now, let's I totally agree, and I would add, think it would have been big, but just not cool it would have been, must see in the same way it wasn't anything else to wash. It didn't. It wouldn't have had the oxygen it as there are. Plenty of people were the next day, real getting started. Tippins contract, I mean in two thousand twenty hours of yeah yeah like or
who were the unsung heroes or did they give short shrift Horace Grant I mean it was amazing that these conversations were actually happened, felt like some sort of like role playing games, game or something, but I would say, with respect to ESPN into. three. Every media campaign, including the one I work for that the challenge here was you know walking this line between the distraction of sports sports as entertainment, which has been Thirdly, what they are, they are a distraction from ordinary life, too very real, very dramatic. situation which was, acting ordinary life in a fade away where some people, and It was not the kind of thing that lends itself to Sarah glib commentary right. You know we're really good about just off and being silly talking about. Sports when things get a little bit more serious. Obviously that's bigger challenge, but it was this thing.
What kind of simultaneously happening, especially as the league start to roll back. So bright wrote elegantly about this when it started to happen, but like at what point does a writing? My baseball stop paying so much attention to covet positive instead start talking about who is the best shortstop internationally, like how'd. You do both in it and, I think, to a large degree, people found that middle rail impressively. think that was always a charge. I know that where I worked, you know it was a classic rotation of covering the sport, journalistic Lee it was the most essential thing, but also acknowledging the fact that people watch sports for entertainment and distraction. What are really reminded me of sorry to cut up
really bigamy of was the football head injury thing on a much bigger scale. Will I think, all of us whenever you see those head injury stories like this is awful, but this is this is horrible. I come and rethinking you know watching a football game. It should I be doing this and to be sitting those guys out, and then the football games starts and I'm the best example this on my own football. Oh here we go Erika, ok learning and this woman. yeah and sports meeting people. You get this real talent for cognitive dissonance and you sort of do both right in the head. Injury thing comes up and talk about it in its important within the games which is on you just completely switch gears, and I thought that happen all during the pandemic and is still happening up to the star. The NBA. yeah. I think it was such a grim situation just for all of us as people day to day, and you talk about the distraction thing. I totally agree where the covert thing which were games are getting either almost cancelled seem like them. I can cancel this teams missing.
Quarterbacks and is kind of like the show must go on and everybody reconciled. You know whatever their own feelings were bad at and if it was like, you know what I'm watching the stuff anyway, then you can't be morally judgments about it. It it hit a point, with a in and year out. And it's like look here there s this house, gonna go there's gonna, be some games outward. generally be compromise because the edifice is moving along with, la move along. If you can't watch all that, while also bitching about it. It's like it's it's kind of one or the other, and I think all of us are so used to bitching about everything about football that Car use stood at this point in its even before that injuries as like you go back to how they treated players in the contracts and all that stuff in the seventies and eighties. Instead,
right and then looking the other way. With a lot of that stuff, and now you know, I think woods with fishing to be as basketballs that wired thou way in basque boss, so much more pleasure, friendly and so much work cognizant of how the how people feel about them and feel about the way and feel about the prayers and Adam Silver, somebody that is really really wearing aware at all times. So what happens if we start hidden these same checkpoints with basketball? What I like, we were taped this on a Wednesday. There's a situation with the rockets where they might. There may be a covert they might have to cancel this game. I think they're gonna fold way more quickly and some of this stuff than the NFL. They then, if, as you say now, we're gonna go Gone gone, what do you think? How do you think this bizarre Jason, why basketball team cells are quite a bit smaller said a dynamic? Can change rather quickly. If you have, the positives are players you know under noticed out for games
You know I didn't the most acute situation was caused boards and have you wanna talk about something that requires cognitive, dissonance, nothing, we're as Martin cognitive dissonance than like big Time College sportswriter Journal about a multi billion dollar enterprise, which you know one party, on the field are not examined, thereby ready asses compensated at market rates, and I was all before you this and then you, this situation, which you know a little like the NFL leagues, were consuls are announcing that they're gonna do this and they're going barge ahead and the reason they were doing it was clearly the money. So if you were hanging to some sort of red idea of you know amateur. Is that so now and I'm very curious what athletes will do going forward, because I think if you are a college athlete, especially if you're in a high revenue sports, your
Quite aware, now of the leverage that you have in the environment, who saw flashes of this lady summer, as some of the conferences were debating, coming back or play or not play, but I do think that that's going to be a significant change going It's here we were. Nobody has been a moment ago. We announced just a couple of weeks the girl, yes Piazzi, three hundred a three hundred million dollar per year, deal for the as he see, which is a major major hike over what CBS was paying for the same, the money is still there. Despite. Obviously the economic carriages ensued, the money is still there what's different. Now, as I think, the players are weighed aware of their value here would think right, yeah. I agree with that. I just exports makes all of us who work in the industry. We work in make peace with it and with it for better, worse right, sometimes his temper
BP, sometimes you to shut off your brain for three hours, sometimes to outlines another Dan Snyder story. This week I mean seriously how many people who watch Washington how much of a how much more reno cognitive dissonance if they had to push through tomorrow, our you'd you'd, you don't even have to look into the high revenue. Cars boys are professionals words. I mean everybody on. This call is apparent who ass kids, who are playing sports and during this pandemic, if you were in a place where a sports were starting to crawl back, you are confronted with this question of like ok. the safe. Do we do this and you are evaluating those trade personally, you were thinking about what important here? Well, in the end, I can tell you you know I mean that I want to kids out. I want them running around if I felt that they are making a necessary precautions and things like that yeah get out. There was plenty to do this
so this was a very unusual circumstances in which the conditions were applied, not just at the highest levels of sports, the Marquis of them I'll pay turn into, but everybody's ordinary lives. While you can also see gonna have some psychotic. Some people are about the stuff. Even at the sports over you know, and I know that my daughter's playing club and she has forty an Arizona forget you in January, and it seems like it's gonna happen and the case for it is hey it soccer its outdoors. The people aren't really near each other that much You can talk yourself into this whole reality of it, but the bottom line is in California, nobody's playing soccer nobody's doing any outdoor stuff. They don't they put in Arizona. It's like cool come here today. Have all these parents driving to Arizona from California, six seven hours for baseball and lacrosse and soccer and they're all justifying their own ways right, whether it's my kid once a college scholarship
only has three years left. He has to be seen by the coaches, or I just want my kids to be outside in that be indoors, play video games all day. I'm willing to take the risk it thrilling, each person, I guess it turned you under the forty Niners pray Erica. they Arizona areas Those like the use words like offshore casino, basically like a jack objective, might I led to me: do you may say to me: is that Nevada seated the territory in Arizona, your things like who obey them more anxious to grab this territory. The Nevada there's an as I know, no hold by beer and they took it but yeah. It's just ate it so crazy, but you're right. It's like a little macrocosm about the big problem: college sports, stuff
That was the end and I might begin in many instances to it created this beard mindset of sports fans because they were sitting raising a wire, the playing prosperous, my kids play literally, what's goin on how come I caused. He was playing overdue schedule will like it just finished here, use I ran the risk of entering EU sports, were back rather quickly in overseeing You know that
every application of rules was the smartest, but it does seem like there was a little bit of conflict in the way that various sports across people's lives came back. It's fucking, weird and the AIDS virus things you could try to obtain a sun happening, but it still we're like last night watch him where's nets, Steve Curs, gonna, mask on yeah, he's trying to coach he's point the mass down to so his power can hear him then realize you can't do that is pulling up and you just their cunning. The sidelines of his he's just talking his mask for definite sake.
we watching and meanwhile the players on the court and they're not wearing mass. So it's like I did so, and then you have the meteor porters like the southern reporters and they have the Mastercard and yes kind. I get used to it, but I do if I do wonder like watching hardwood classics. Twenty five years from now under these gains that what the fuck was going added, who feel out it's funny right. The coach have amassed God. This is This is crazy. We're here take a break and come back in its more the stuff. let's take a breakdown by Pepsi. As we know this for policies, it feels fierce little different. Pepsi is here to get
you ready for game day, no matter how you watching this season, taxis refreshment needs power through again Day Pepsi. Is it made for those who play the game it's made for those who watch it? I honestly by football watch. He has really changed so much this year, I'm still plough and through early games, late games, Sunday night Games always nice to have some refreshment sunny and for Thou and Pepsi made for football watching, go who made for football, watching dotcom to check out the latest football watching content from Pepsi Jason. You thought these sports media event of the year was I I never want to settle in a million years that the most important sporting there were a counter whatever be the NFL draft, but I kind of beer was the NFL draft. Is a absurd piece of
The iter in an ordinary year is effectively a bunch of telephone calls. When he s piano, regionally went to the League and Piero sounds: are they want to televised at the lake was completely baffled, but we ve seen how crazy it's big com has become a travelling circus. and that obviously wasn't possible. They did in April this year. They ran it on time against a lot of people's advise thence and yet made it work. It was enough for a leak that is so associated with bombast and you know spending money when you do need to spend money on it. It had a folksy field, you had Roderick Adele squirreled away in his basement in our inner cosy. Mr Rogers sweater are you had the athletes at home among their closest love ones, at a time when that, basically, Everybody was doing you have it
judges in their weird wreck rooms with their families. Coaches, don't spend time with their families what the heck is going on and, of course you had, the marvelous seen Bilbil Bill dog sitting up. Table and Nantucket I mean they're doing Nothing not like an eye, and I think also they did a kind of funny thing where they had a bunch of different telecast right. You have other your hearts, stories, you know, mainstreaming having here and you're the one key vanity style, but I'm just the whole event worked. Way that I just didn't expect. Unless were accidentally watching the the tragedy porn talk ass versus day, the football talk Ass, which I was watching, had ABC going. What the fuck is going on with. What is this where's, like the football conversation, not realizing that I was on the tragedy porno, I'm so glad you bet there. There was one
Where did sports media things? The whole year was the ABC telecast at the draft is here, is on a pianist Jason mentioned there being so it there be indifferent right. Let's get, let's get cameras, zoom calls and coaches and like really figure this out and then the other ways cunegonde hard toward like nineteen. Eighty five, you, no real people media in our inner, tells human stories here. Folks in here, like woe, what who, who else for in died in the NBA drafted at two, and this is when it all made sense to me, because I had the NBA draft on in my house, but then I left and came out here, because I knew I do a podcast. I wanted the tv just just didn't want people interrupting me, but I left the tv on and my wife came out after, like pick twelve and was like what's going on with this draft. I've cried three times and- and I was like
now I get it here, this draft outcast is not for me. I'm gonna watch anyway, you have me, you have me Peter. my wife, but if you're telling these stories, maybe porridge isn't care, but the draft his career obi top and goes. But if there's some story about this guy found his father died above all by- and this is you know, a kind of ties it to another topic that I think is really fast aid. The fact that Fox paid a premium price for Tom Rinaldi, who is the premium guy, Tough, and it's become the genre that I do feel egg sports illustrated Gary Smith, people that had hid it pretty in one area, and now it's kind of crossed over to tv in Rinaldi, was the one that perfected it. But Curtis did you ever think, you'd see Tom and all they make two million a year. And I was watching game they this week, I love college game. They that's that an inside the NBA are probably the two Studio shows are pre game show that actually watch and I were genuine.
Enjoy and they cut to the Rinaldi's segment? was on the University of Alabama receivers having a great year and his now kid from that was at the guy stays after practice and catches a lot of balls after practice, which is interesting. I guess plus space. That's a fairly common nugget. I can buy a successful athlete. but it had the string music go on in the background. Doo doo doo doo, Doo, Doo, Doo, Doo, Doo, doo doo that cut a slow mo of him with jugs machine and Rwanda, and, unlike is there just one key that we can do all these stories in its its there's. There's one guy making all the music yeah there The tears Malaga were staring up at the cosmos, Buzz like you just stay and after practice, what do we know what is going on here? Isn't this a throwback in ways? This is ruin our lives. This is dick. Ever saw your rewrite the idea that a mainstream sport to get more people- and you see it- it's it's been epidemic in the olympics- forever the idea that it out to get people
to follow, alarm athletes and near the Olympics ever harder acts were asking. People have the other seven get excited about art. No offense archery play guy. Gotta. Keep your standing with other furnished us our choice. I going to get it yeah, but but There is the others is belief. I think, especially in broadcast media that you know you're going for the widest audience possible and how do you bring in the widest audience possible? Well then, you have to bring in an emotional immediacy, to all this stuff. You have to remind people about the bad thing. and it happened along the way, and I think that has television in Europe
the internet of stratified everything it's easier to subsist on nice. You know that the idea that you could be super wonky and you notes Analytics Pacific are gambling specific and you don't have to appeal to the widest possible audience. So when you see it, when you see it executed and in a sports now it feels stranger than it may have once. Well, I remember really when they started. I remember the patient zero for the Sarah was the two thousand Olympics in Sydney the summer Olympics. This was when day day they had had the pieces in the previous Olympics, but that was the one Were there just like we're gone for this year, eight, whoever the athlete is boom. Let's sir, this five minute story about blank I hated it and it was early internet armor browser my own at that time. Website just was great for me, I'm, like bitter guy and by about goods or its largest attacking every
This is great. This is that you get two weeks after just making fun of this, but this is now twenty years later be the equivalent of war. Have this package right out a black? and you know you know who really feel strongly about this who lost his relative resilience brand Curtis Bright, and then we just did a five minute. Tangent, I'm? U just telling this really sad story about like your great uncle, just passed away, and I went to the hospital bed and Bubba and Kyle start playing music and it, and then it says that guy back to the podcast, that's what this coverage is now I don't understand it and it really feels like bill, and you and I've had this conversation over the last decade. Many times remember when we felt like sports profiles of written profiles were broken because they all became stop stores. Everybody was doing Gary Smith and I, like reading a good weeper once in awhile. I write them every once in awhile, but there's got to be other keys. You can work in and I feel tv profiles right now, generally speaking, a pretty broken because they're all
in that key. It's all about that inside. You can do a funny one. You can do one wonders just neutral. You can do one that doesn't have throbbing music upon the background and I had to say the same thing about written stuff people in a rut, and it feels I dont believe that the only way to appeal the non sports fans is that it has to be a tragedy or a good I really do getting worse, though better, which is the part that part that scares me heading into two thousand and twenty one. I don't know if it's I would say that the contrary is true. That, like you, media, especially even television me has become the domain and specialists that you know it's there also The brain, imaging gray, the other down as a kind of career, won't be replica you're not gonna like do every support you just you're gonna, be a spill, the value, the superstar as the people who are paid the most and our emulated by the people coming up or the wages in the shaft and clear the people who have incited hard for information about one thing.
not trying to do. Everything will not try to be all microcircuits. So are there There are one thing and you know so. I and I feel like the the emotional stuff, it stands out because a lot of the time. The stuff. People are talking about on television is very certain specific arcane conversation yeah. Well, I was thinking about this. We can cause. I really enjoyed a keep to leave his then to football game. he's just so different than all the other announces that it actually makes you notice how generic most of the other, our guys on the other for Bulgarians are worth it just do that prose versus Jos and just all crochet left and right- and you know he's needs more time, and if each is Burma by the issues, it feels like its carry. Ok
and came in came was he was just interesting like I wanted out, hang out with the same way. I thought you know he is obviously really really wrong and would talk of replay by play. It made, you know, a ton of mistakes that could be corrected, but I was just so happy with somebody who is kind of swimming against the stream. I do it just feels like this cookie cutter. You really noticed it on the Sunday night NBC when people are missing and then people move around and then it's like a different house, because Tirico has to host it. So now we have Liam Mchugh and then but this person they were going to shove this in, but it's basically the exact same show with people just perform in the roles, and it's like what is this How did we get here and I think, there's a pandemic explanation for that cause. Member the beginning, the pandemic, neither game road this about, can we Totally re imagined sports tv.
Can we really agencies gave we don't have fans? You know we need fate crowded. Are we just going to complete the conclusion that I think everybody came to was? Actually this is the One thing you want to watch in its regular formed or in the pan. Am you want a basketball game to look like a basketball game, one in a federal look like in a fell, so let's other than keeping the announcers home they did last night and NBA Nvidia be open, or let us make this as. as normal as possible, if not change any of the grammar. This thing and I think that's I think we would have considered that a surprise. In April, the member, member baseball how where it was the first like month, based power like this just sucks. I dont like that. Yeah. Then they try to fix a date. Mixed results, the I noticed it in the world series with good browser. Is this year an and there's so much shorter, interstitial fan stuff in the World Series game you think about like in the past year
Like you, the Cubs fans with the rally cops are the Red Sox stands before two thousand for, like you gripping their mittens in the cold and just everybody freaking out now is always go to thing. For a television producer was turned to the panicking. and because you had thirty seconds between each page, so you just cut to the stance that no there's a terrified six year old music is worth collapsing. Represent. So then you after you, alcohol. I don't have that available to me. I can't go to the Larry King cut up behind the dugout. This is too weird go to the players and the players big in, more entangled in a theater and actually far, I felt more connect. like I don't know much about the tenth they raised, but I felt like I knew them by the end of the browser is because I was constantly just kind of doing body language in the fingers, the India at the net? Warriors Game last night in one of the things that I don't
Television is conveying this interesting ways, but you see it. That's the point on the bench in this kind of weird tiered bench thing that they have behind the benches. Now are you know the multiple fires you're going back? A few rose really really into the games and you can hear what they're saying that are teenage and you can see them celebrate after big dogs are different ways and there's a colleague feels a little bit like cars, basketball and a fine way and all that would be drowned out in a standard, proud, Eurostat, environments button. I think we are telling us should more innovative is the lean into more of that and show you more than they did a little bit over the bubble. I think you do more. I am I dont know how to fix the baseball thing without the fence I never is. It was weird there were certain sports that I never realized how important random shots of fans were to my experience of watching the sport.
Tennis was another one yeah I'd. I got I really like the: U S Open, I would always watch you know at least some of the major matches. I don't watch any the ears open is too weird for me. Some people like that. I had friends that were like it was awesome. I love just hearing the ball in the end, though the sounds of the players as I I thought it I never realized how much I relied on the noise of the crowd and the Jews in the eyes and kind of figuring out who they're rooting for was almost like wrestling wrestling. Another one that's really suffered, but at some point the crowd drift to one of the two players, and sometimes it would to a surprising result, really wow. They want that person when I'm surprised to hear that her wow this crowd's, not really in the Serena. That's that's odd or whatever, and just moving that maybe like watch tennis tell us. You have another sport like that right, yeah, well, other glass night with we ve gotten so used to fade crowd noise, but fate crowd noise during the. Acres ring ceremony was,
really weird. Once there get no new on you, cuz that button is on. There is on the causes of these guys. seeing you know what it out his leg when the light the Lakers twelve man gets his ring like what? What's that sound, the crowd makes universe that we know what the bronze sound is. What does that sound me? Lack of like a very polite applause, sound, they have ever master that yeah justice. I would have said college football because that's another one with a crowd just so into it at home stadiums. But you know what you watch: your college games and half of had tons of fare better data. There are twenty two people out of those games yeah football really worked, because you realize like oh, I don't. I d just show the fields and the powers of the field, the new enlisted cutting away to the crowd, I'm not even thinking that there's a crowd there in the document, but I accept that for possible success.
What are you guys values, but I found the fan shot to be really fraught this year you mentioned build. This is like a standard of sports tv. We always he go to the fans, but have the time- and maybe this is mostly count for nothing. They cut and the people just wouldn't be wearing masks or they have the master on the neck, Canada then you're like what the fuck and I've never thought. The fan shot could actually be fraught and be like this, Weird public health warning to those of you who makes me feel bad yeah. I was assumed, like with the I found that they cut the luxury Box and Jesse. Both craft sit there, no back there ever bet that owners, even Jerry Joneses, seem like they're, pretty diligent with it? How did it affect the tour de France I was a little all over the place. I read the tour de France is a appreciate, the recycling and acquire welcome. He added that you know
If you had asked me if April a sporting event, that would not happen, I would have picked the tour de France simply because it's you know of month, long or three week, long bike race to the mountains of France outdoors, you know and moving place to place every single day it worked day in get shut down. There were, I can remember, I don't believe there were any sort of positive tests are lagging. There were running, shut it down I feel like they got lucky you now. I am happy that they pulled it off and there was actually in its very exciting, raised this year as absorb uh. You know but it felt like a little bit of regular handling work. I have one other big topic birds
former, but so I look at twenty twenty. We covered a lot of the stuff that I think our member from a sports made his standpoint, the too that we have any at one is the gambling peace and the influx of, Initially was fantasy, fantasy became the gateway to the gambler stuff. Obviously, I'm delighted I've loved gambling forever. We certainly we have a big deal if and although it's not like we're not partaking. Last night Fanduel Data Deal with Barkley, inside the NBA Shucks doing odds boosting no it ain't, really leaning into it, and it struck me like gambling, I feel like is the thing to watch this decade for what, how it's going to affect sports and how people cater the content
and how people kind of get used to it and how they get used to it. With the dialogue in the languages stuff, you could see it in the crazy I'm Thyssen regiments fight, which is you know, just as one of the more bizarre TB nights in the year, but draft gangs is running the odds during each round as Thyssen seems to be beating Jones and then at one point one point he's like a three thousand: no one favoured. I can remember meanwhile, like it ends up being a draw, but the odds were just so on the present there. In that whole night- and I feel like that's happening more and more with sports- are really resisted. This, like basque bomb football, specifically where this was
third rail, as everything about Paul Hornig died recently pouring out suspended for a whole year, because he was gambling not even eyes own team, and then you think about the peat rose staff and he was not being now. Gaming is just accepted in its part of its people, understand the language. Where does this go Brian well, I'm always struck. When I turn on the phone, I see like a graphic of Terry Bradshaw holding a briefcase, he's, a wrestling manager. You know from eighty that those kind of amazing to your question about fantasy. Do we think gambling we make it into the mainstream, sport shows to a greater degree, because family is huge right now. Rightly Matt. You know, there's a you bury there's fantasy, shows a fantasy writers, but they haven't quite crept under the set of like the fox
the pregame show. You know, I've been there. It's always super awkward right where there I was like. I bet that helps your fantasy team, like after, like an idiot yard, touchdown or something, and it just feels like forced everything exactly so feels like it's over at a different table, I go about something over there, but we feel that gambling is gonna, make it transition more than fantasy ever managed it. I think it will as there's more money at stake, and I think the legs are active participants. What Jason yeah, I you know there are any number of people who are involved in arms gambling start ups, as these things become increasingly state. Legal will tell you that this is a growth industry with no end in sight. I I just don't know what the you know. Were. I know how brought the appeal is. I don't doubt for one minute: there is a huge industry. Animal get I'm I just curious at what point does it, as you said, so to infiltrate, telecast or alien
people. I had a conversation. I talked to a number of people who are running sports books, maybe a couple weeks ago, and one of them said like asked about like do you think that we're doing with a guy. If there was one of those guys file, one off exhibitions where there was a lot of the killing material was on the screen. Yet not such an easy. then we're gonna see that across borders using that ending a major league since this first that I hope not. Which is the rise making. I figured they, they would want that, and is it yet it knew you'd read you risk feeling a part of the audience in the most important thing in Philly Sports has to be wildly popular. To is broadly, we will get them. We will grab them if they're. Looking for a like, you know, extra excitement in their passes, but I don't think he was resistance to the idea that this is somehow just knew. It was just naturally going to happen because, as these things be coming Recently legal, it you're a lot more of it. I think that they need shifted, and I remember being a page
in like a one and no to when they didn't want me to write about gambling on, you know I to do My weekly for back on that add that a mild website- and I was like a real battle, had already been think. I've fully did it until two thousand. For with the lads you know- and I agree, we just want a dab on that Burma would do be doing his. text. He was the only one on the channel that really a God said, but it was always. It was always like. I see the bills winning, but maybe not by as many points as some people think they should win. I see it being two thousand eight hundred and twenty four so picking the bills, not the cover, many Billig, oh, I get it says like this secret language. I think it's shifted now to the point The one thing I've really noticed is people are aware, more educated in stuff, like my homes, being the envy p favorite his eyes have dropped Kyler Murray's, making a big run
We are the way they talk about the NBA finest hours, Brooklyn six to one that the third best adds. I think people get that piece of it and I think that the members are more and more able to we that into two how they talk about it, but it's interesting people so don't understand. I dont think a lot of people have come up with the odds and that their goal is for the odds to just get people to bet both sides there trying to take off the risk, the casinos to book, bakers whatever so, if they make like you, this was always the red Sox thing pretty thousand for Vegas would make the Red Sox you do five to one to win the world series. They should have been twenty weather, be like all. We know this shit had idiot red. Sox fans are going to come back the Red Sox anyway, which is make the odds lower. That's the part people don't get yet Village, didn't America get a giant
how does our words and election night watch? Yes, I wanted to bring that up that that so that was the most fascinating thing right, where TAT became the most incredible some part of that night, the offshore markets in Europe and this crazy Trump money that was was coming in n and meanwhile they were just jack in the odds because they knew Trump Adam. these crazy people, our Betty on their by use bride. You see now with Dallas every year the cowboys always get treated There are one of the four best than about thieves been while they had made the Superbowl in twenty five years. Thank God, I'm One of those stupid people superbowl. My I just want to know is the fact that love the Tom Rinaldi bringing peace today so what the odds on the screen during a game have we seen that cross That's when I know that the world will have truly crossed over
It will be like crossing the crossing, the beams and ghostbusters or something. I just think it's gonna be more more power. This Khazars too much money at stake. Neither thing is, I think, it's twenty one states are legal, now, maybe supply that say it somewhere between eighteen and twenty one. There's a big states that aren't legal, California's illegal nearest out legal, although you can drive across state lines. I friends who have done this drive right over the state, lied to New Jersey, put bats and drive back yeah in the next three years. I would say, probably at these two thirds of the states will be legal and You know you think about it. Brian lives here in California. With me, it's kind of hard to fathom California wouldn't be looking for another revenue source when you see would have frequent disaster. It is here right now like food can be called out.
more money coming in Saturday. At some point, that's got to be legal, but it does it just feels like it's been a sub bot this year, because it feels way more mainstream then used to be, and- and I do feel like the league's are embracing it now, whereas before it was you stay away from, so I don't have anything else. You want to hear that you in a moment to say that I think that are in a medium bar me now, where you're going to be able to give that you wanted rather easily. You know it's not terribly hard to create alternate broadcast both were very, very much looking for live betting odds, and I think that Every single sporting event now has multiple feeds, a big one, at least as multiple feeds than it wouldn't be terribly hard to do that I will be there curious reach, a point where the sort of Marquis telecast of a game integrates lots of gambling real time gambling information into that. How that could work of each? Could you have a three
person Monday night Football Booth, where the third person with Canada agnostic later. I don't know why you could argue, make the broadcast more interesting. I As liberal I wake a comeback from commercial Bank: hey the lie, betting over that commercial people seem to think the chiefs are gonna, come back and yet there down ten there's five minutes left. What do you think that Louis and then I would just be how they did it. Should we bring a man like MIKE Pereira? Oh I got a big moment here. Can you come on explained the stakes of this? we'll go round you I'd rather than Steve Jobs, just agreeing with whatever the call on the floor was for the hundred straight time right for you to have experts at least have ever gabert. This leads me to my next thing. This is more say it's on a prediction as much as I'm surprised, it hasn't happened.
and something we ve predicted in the past, and that makes me wonder whether over happened. I'm sure we have a sports or potter's from the last three years, anticipating that coverage was gonna change and, like Jason just mentioned about different broadcast, Eighty two different people: there is a moment- Aetius began where they I forget what college was the Big College game in the air and they just put her on every generate. There was a different about last towards each person, and it seems this is gonna, be potentially a little bit of what the future of sports coverage look. I don't just watch our tv, You can watch these feeds here here here here and here and enjoy these different answers. That hasn't happened yet and now we're heading two, twenty twenty one and were basically the same spot where in two thousand fourteen Jason wasn't that happened yet probably a little expensive after imagine that in the have multiple, actions of even a single event, as in others, involved, personnel and expands, and at times
when people are shouting payroll is probably a complication? Am I also think that the new sports, media and cable, and you look at what s behind been going through the last punchy years. Unlike the talk about, maybe my knife, a ball should be an eighty see. Product doesn't necessarily have to be a cable product. They have sort of refined and love at the idea of scale. As much ass audience as possible. We on the surrounding grow. Yes pm. Let's get the most numbers, we can possibly get our money like football game. Maybe sort of a further is a little bit challenging right now, but The more existential question for all of these networks has just you know. We have young kids in our homes. We know what it's like to watch. People who are not our age, wide sports and they don't want it in the linear fashion that we are grab watching it. They watch it in chunks and segments, they don't fear missing thing. They don't feel that they have to be.
In front of it every single second, they know they're gonna, get whatever they want online immediately and what that does to traditional broadcasting in the way that sports presented, I think, is the big headache, because if you, create. If your, if you have our ushering in a generation of people who are not like sitting down twice the first quarter of a football game or a basketball game or a baseball game right through what you programming for like how are you doing this and it cannot just be for gazers like us? Well, that's. The big fear right is their biggest fares, my son, by thirteen year old Son, who follows the NBA through to carry the video game players. Tik Tok Instagram like yesterday, he came any watch, but you watch Brooklyn make as you just want to see. Katy and Kyrie any watch an hour and a half of the game. That was a blood he left, but he feels like he's following the league
the same level that I follow it. I'm fucking, Tik, Tok, Instagram and I gotta say like he's not missing much he knows about the stories are, he knows like he got excited about. Luella buys a dad. Luella is all over Tik Tok. Right now to him that means means low. Is you euro on his way up? He didn't need to watch the preceding day, but I actually watch Labelle on the precision one of the games in Canada. The say I arrived at the same conclusion by Sunday from some of these. Epps. You I'm running a league like the NBA. That would be the one. Why would I do you your head around that Brian, where it's like? How do we know this- is how kids are watching our support. Some of them are still watching eventually, but we have this whole other audience, that's kind of consuming it this way in They still love our league, but we can't monetize them they don't we can turn them into ratings. What do we do? Yeah? And might my kids, thankfully, of inherited my
athletic James, are there going to be sports tv watchers rather than people that get called to go to out of state tournaments? I can already predict that one, even though they're pretty young, but I would just say that is a huge problem in the future, but guess what the present is it sports on television, we were kids sports was one of the popular things on television right now. Sports has the popular thing vision and the pandemic. If anything, just prove that you know what everyone is saying, you know how much I love sports tv ratings whatever you want to look at those numbers, and this is down. This is the most is. The thing is what people watching so there's is very lucrative present to be had for the next several years. The we're about to give the NFL a brazilian dollars for them for the next couple years, and- and I agree with you- there is a sort of existential day.
it's probably about all media, not just sports, like water people, gonna watch how they're gonna watch it, but right now and for the foreseeable future sports sort. It is television at live television anyway. You know beyond a few serious and things a breakthrough in. I don't. It feels like that's. That's the story to me at the moment. It's the man, Delorean COBRA. I live sports yeah, nodded had ordered by the way, I wonder There is a conversation, that's happening in all these needs about something that newspaper start to restart about no eight nine days in the arts was. Are we giving all that away for free? What mistakes are we doing here as you said yet. La mellow ball is a sensation on Tik, Tok, social media and so on that like, but that's because that content is up and thrown around the internet and no one's like chasing the right down and making a problem for the people who are opposed to that stuff.
and the leaks have embraced it under the idea that year, your creating awareness, your building fans and so on, but at a certain point as you, you're not monetizing any of that an interest and that's what television effectively was. He was the conduit We wish you good monetize, the audience come to an advertisers say it's worth this and that's where all those billions of dollars to flow into the game and if you lose that you gotta get The mother places to go back to our time before when Gamble a huge part of widely exert their arms around gambling. Is it's a hedge against this audience decline? or the way that television money will go what's funny. Ratings are going down and will continue to go down and we don't need to lead gate. What happened in the exercise of seven different reasons why that happened, but I think the prices are due to still go up and that something that has not change really, since the eighties they'll
but a command more for their games, because there's more people competing for those rights right now, whether your legal gambier looking long term like we should just on all this and whether there's gonna be a moment like what happened movies to share with HBO Max where they're, like Phuket movie theatres, are out. We who regard directed the consumer- and- I guess thou, be a question for me for twenty twenty one that happened so abruptly. It was something everybody had talked about for copper years. That some day this could happen is some day. Could we get movies at home that be cool? I remember having conversations on this package outpace fifty dollars for this movie right now, instead of going to the theater and now that's where things are going, that's where Disney plus and it filled MAX. Is it realistic for a place like Espn2, just be like fuck it where it? Where we're breaking our cable deal,
or were out of our cable there's are we're not we're just not going to be in their business anymore. We're moving everything to ESPN paean, alas, sooner than people thought cause. I feel like it is realistic funding. I what I thought you were going to say it is a realistic. The NBA does say, hey will not make any more television deals. We're just gonna, sell you and be a games from our own. I am, I think, it would be realistic if they didn't have so many competitors for the rights right now, if that's where we are- yeah, I guess so much money to be made so much money to be made from not only the networks. Amazon Pekin in there and all that kind of stuff right at this moment. So I think that the ways especially like how Baisers works were baisers just like that stuff goes groceries. I'm just gonna own that everything weight with you do, I get to say how he see bought offers our their third Avenue ship groceries Thurston like features like setting us the India I'll take league pass.
Why that's? How I'll get in the sports and watch area be a game here? I still feel happy. NBA values, the networks and I think all the all the sports realize like ultimate. It's a huge fucking country, not everybody's, going to stream games, and you want to be in as many places as possible, but I do I do wonder if either a league or a network is abruptly going to shift a Werehog What happened? The same wage Fiona HBO Max. I was inconceivable year ago that we were going to do that year and about that also like environmental change. What will happen? happened anyway. You watching it at home as opposed to a theatre. What's happening in sports is a behavioral. Changes is the way that people consume sports in an m again, sport will get us stay on this for a whole bunch of years, because, as you point out there, all these your players out there, for whom you know they can afford it first of all, but secondly, is just a way of
you know making new customers creating in our prime interested and yet Alice Way to retain prime membership or boost prime membership. That it makes sense for Amazon. It doesn't have to make sense on its own, is actually in a weird layer, returned the kind of the days of like last leading right with downward eyeing sports, because it was a way to propel there. Prime time line up something. That was why you overpaid for Sunday Football was that way to sell. You know your new sitcoms syndrome and all that- and I think that yeah there's longer runway than we think for all these sports because of these digital players. But I think, where you'll see changes that you know even for behemoths in talent and Economics Wall MEG last sentence like years starting see you know they're worth realise that some of these deals may have been too long or overpaid the idea you just go on a spree and snapped up everything,
may not make them a sense of your just a traditional television company fears like that's where that said last topic them tat. We never really talked about how media friendly the athlete relationship is, and that was the other be take away from twenty twenty his arm and add it there's a rider reasons and have talked about it on the partner, but I don't want to spend a hundred minutes on it, but though the friendly nature of the coverage Now- and you really noticed there, I think in the NBA more, they think even during free agency signings, where you get to like the MOE heartless level of assigning and the person who breaks the story that ball heartless assign with Miami and like he's getting expected that average dramatic influence on their three them like Marcus? I like him, but he's been sixteen. I am really suspicious
times thou in a way that I can't member being before of people's motivations, who covered different sports, the relationships with the athletes why they were chosen for the story why they were chosen for the scoop, how they got it and just a favorite shaded that goes on that Basically, sickly has been whatsoever journalism. What happened to a really since Ladys and Brian is written about that, but the vanity, fair peace and now that's the kind of started to become what is sport journalism Brian? Have we? Are we heading a point when this is a sea saw that is just going to Tipp over maybe I mean I I see moments when it feels like that when it feels like we ve gone and by the way we should This is a dramatic shit. from when we were all growing and not just growing up a warlike twenty ago, yeah data Meciar is Jason, Gus Leah. Where was I calling the media pro player
or wondering if certain you know, we certainly reporters had me. No reports of players and stood for plays knots up. It is thinking of the sports. Media is overwhelmingly pro player dangerously pro player. That would never have come up, never come up. No, nobody digest. I just did you did not get that vibe. Generally speaking, We grew up. The media was an adversary, two players and yet in some ways could drive up where out of town yeah. I heard, however yeah, so I guess I say two things about this. One is like when you talk about that that thing about. I wonder how whose why this story is being broke in what the agenda is here to me, that is largely a product of all these, the locker room stuff. players getting more remote. All these things getting shut off. So we just assume that there's like when it's not old fashioned journalism anymore, it's gotta be something
of one for one relationship, some kind of favor trading with the agent or the player, or you know that journalists are so desperate to bring news that that's the only way to do it anymore, because the old avenues that we grew up with have been cut off and probably to some extent, that's pretty true on the pro player stuff out do wonders like where we concerned at the time when everything was pro team and pro G M and pro owner, where we worried about that or we when I thought about that, watching the last dance when Jerry Krause got to tell Michael Jordan, what to do, which is now just mind. Blowing we're people standing up and not saying Jerry Cross is an idiot cuz. A lot of people said that was saying like Jerry. Krause does not have the right to tell the best basketball player of all time wind and his career, like that's beyond the pale. This guy should get that response, though it were we doing that at the time. I thought about it when I did the book basketball podcast about Rick, Barry and reading
How is perceived when he jumps to the ABA and how angry it made people that caused. Are you yeah yeah? Are you do this, and I think that was a persistent theme would I was growing up and we had a lot of baseball free agency in the seventies and guys were jump? games. There was a. How dare you element to it? You know, and you know it or a day when failed, which you can go and you can go and sports illustrated read the story when he sounded the occasion was like ten years with a million whatever whatever the final number was, and the moment he didn't play well, he became a villain in New York Zactly, but we paid all this money for oh, that was just kind of the way it was for a long time now. It feels like it's When eighty, sometimes, I wonder like how far can acquire go with that before the debate like this stuff hard in, is that in the last two months he's pushed the envelope with this stuff
As far as I can ever remember, anybody doing Emily last decade are the two thousands Vince Carter, one. Get traded at its rhino and did everything you could and the moment he got traded. He was awesome. It's not like. We haven't seen players do this before I'm surprised at people defending it so vehement lee- and it almost seems like it's not even about sports. It's about this moment the countries having where it's like she should be allowed to do. What he wants they can trade him, and he would have no say in that. So this is the prayers way of either being able to own something for themselves through in a cigar I, but. You you sitting on the fence at you, have that support for the last eight years in it for ever they get in these shitting on vans business, then who's gonna, be paying for all this stuff, eventually eat out of the fans are ultimately the reason their prayers make the money. I think I think you can be not pro honour, not probe where, but you could be pro fan. Does that make sense
then a farm in Houston- and I just router for this dude for eight years and then he's like a sea later and hell or high water trying to get out of there. I don't know where their leaves. Us is fans, and that's the part that worries me. Yeah. I think you're asset it noting here is the decline of the morals, old and sports writing. That was a very very competitive profession for a very long I'm anxiously. So I'm I'm glad we're out of that era. Of you know, moralising about athletes and so on, and I think that part of the region for the evolution is that we just know much more about the mechanics and economics of sport, the moon. Once did you know, we look at a college football coach, in eight nine dollars year- and we know why that is ridiculous, contractually when players are being paid, and we are now that's absurd to like get riled up about
somebody making. Forty four million dollars to play baseball are basketball. When you know what the television contracts are for the owners in these sports, but again, like everything, there's probably some medium in between, and I think that part of it is giving also is that the evolution of the business and night in a we should all be a little wary here. Right revolve. We were all one young people once we walked into those press boxes and solve as me, of guys, hunched over typewriters bread out we're gonna be that prison while we became lad and am and its indigo aunt Hannah and I think that there's enough seeing new energy happening around all this stuff. But I also think that the way the business modified the most is that the things that people want, To do are largely in now to be that country is
break that news and have social media vitality mean as being as somebody who writes a newspaper, comma I love doing it, I wouldn't sign a lifetime contract, but I feel like I'm making horseshoes right now. Ok, like this is not a you know something that peoples, to do when there are eleven years old. Now they want to be woes, they want to be sham, they wanna be. You know, people perking up and social media in dropping bombs and all that great stuff, and so I think doesn't leave a lot of room for that kind of you. Now I'm gonna get up here on my high horse and blast away. That's the kind of sports writing culture We grew up with a very familiar with, and n n maybe sometimes miss. I didn't like that error either I think we Volga all about a lot of their people that either download them
over the years. I either, I guess, maybe there's no middle ground- and I I think the thing that's confusing to me. Brian- is what where this goes over the next three to four years, because it seems like the players are in complete control, which is the way the way it should be. But then I was thinking watching a Durant get interviewed by the inside the TNT guys and he clearly had animosity toward them right, and he just has the one word interview and I was like on the one hand, I'm just surprised that he played it that way. Cuz he's such a thoughtful guy spend time with them is like this is just a bad move by you. Why you doing this and then the other?
he's looking at it like these guys have trashed me and Kyrie over the years that funding got some of it. In one word answers I'm like I can respect that. So it's it's just so much more complicated, a new ones. Now I enjoy it. The hardest thing is the part. I can't wrap my head around when it gets to the point where somebody just sabotaging their way out of town and people are defending. That's right, my out and I want to do tat you and I just I would love a world where we can actually take these on a case by case basis, because everything is actually different sums. is labour rights? Some stuff is player thing I don't want to be just wrapped around, like a monopoly peace around the leagues, I'm gonna, do something to make sure I have a little more agency in this decision right, I'm gonna say I want to go here. Try to let you ok great it, but but there there are big differences between these eggs, the one to get me was we had this era like ten years ago, where, whenever a player would just shoot
a reporter at his locker Airbus they're laughing unto ever look at that stupid reporter. He got clown by the player, but then you rush, you listen to the question by actually the reporters, the victim Are you gonna do I? Would you like to be humiliated, like that? You know in front of everybody like that's terrible, but in some cases are border was being asked on, probably deserved its. I just I guess I would just one as do whatever we migrate to the thing to be like. We can actually consider all these things on a case by case basis here and it's a power dynamic. Is it not to think that, like you written about those Brian and believe I feel it? That's like a thing. We ve had a lot of progress you written about the brain yeah. There's our dynamic debts were ass once was you interested in the cover stories, are net needing the profiles and needing the goodwill of TAT. businesses are not terribly
central anymore businesses a whole other opinion ecosystem that exists. Apart from traditional, media in social media and they have their own channels, which are in some instances, are even bigger than anything they can be offered from traditional media and it's not as go to their success or failure. I guess the thing that I miss is just kind of common go now player players are just some of this stuff is crazy. Like Leubronn had this thing he said, I'm one of the pods about how the two title see one word: to top was titles anyone's one in the history, the Abuja and it just kind of came and went, and I'm thinkin like aren't. So your two thousand sixteen title. Where dream I got suspended when they are up three one and it put the serious, but it was a good come back and then the two thousand twenty bubble title. These were tougher titles. Then this Celtics in nineteen sixty eight with Bill Russell. As a player coach,
Martin Luther King, getting assassinated in them the debating whether they should keep the series going or not during like the most virtuous civil rights year in the history of the country and then going through in winning the final psych. So tat, though those two were tougher than that like a kid should we go through the seventy five final say when stuff like that gets torn out. Nobody challenges it. That's what I get scared when it's like we're, just not going to challenge anything anymore. We're just going to do stuff is just going to come and go. I just hope people challenge stuff That boy here who do you want my hopes. There was a lot of m J stuff thrown out without challenged this year. Yet Jane, the greatest ripe, when am Jesus you're Scotty Pipoon, was very selfish having that surgery, when he did that really set us back in trying to defend our title, oh by the way in the next year. I just go
Basketball lay way well well. Well, maybe eight invites with a u tat. He was walking out his de maids yeah, I gathered. It seems like the more famous you are. Therefore the were you could try to get away with spitting your euro dared if by a long history, if they say they were that actors and cigarettes that have already us. This is really fun good to see you guys happy hardest sports reporters stuck would end under the two thousand and twenty Hopefully, if we're doing a year and in twenty forty, what I hope I hope it's all about, how hey wasn't it awesome when sports came back and things could be a games and life is one hour happy out as vows. Thank you. He threw back That's it for the podcast hope you enjoy
all the the audio for me. This hope you enjoy the holidays, Beata Gray Christmas, Eve, hope of an awesome Christmas day. Hope you stay and safe. And I look forward to getting to the end of twenty twenty. As I know you do as well, thanks for less than tax rather support thanks to spread the word, and thanks to my man, nephew Kyle, who has been reliable and ready to throw the Sawyer, and it's been really funny with him in do other stuff, far other other little behind the scenes to have you guys, don't know about like what I forgot. My audio and I have to reduce, therefore, have the sense that three in the morning, or you know some files that bad saying you know ass, put out, fires left and right. I really appreciate what he's doing and I really appreciate all you for listening for spread the word we will see you that enable Gus.
Ways.
Transcript generated on 2020-12-26.