It is August two thousand and fourteen, and it is a very difficult day for Kevin Tsujihara Kevin has a billion dollar decision to make. If he's wrong, not only will it stockholders be unhappy, but some of his employees. These will have nervous breakdowns, or maybe even their jobs see. Kevin Sugihara is the head of Warner Brothers. That's the venerable movie studio, the studio that owns DC comics and release all the DC comics movies. Even if you don't read comic books, you got to know the characters, Superman, Batman, wonder woman, you probably you probably had a lunch box or bed sheets with him on it right but it is these superheroes that are on

Bihar is mind today, Becaus his studio has a very big problem: problem that even Superman couldn't leave with a single bound. A few months earlier, Sugihara had excited to release Warner Brothers big summer, tentpole movie on May sixth, two thousand and sixteen the film is Batman versus Superman. It's supposed to be the studios biggest movie of the year featuring its two biggest superheroes, sharing the big screen together for the first time ever, but as Sugihara sits in his office on the studio, Sprawling Burbank lot he's just received some bad news. Another studio is going to release their blockbuster on the exact same day, Anna just any other studio, either or any other movie. This is a from DC's archrival. In all things, superhero, the Disney owned Marvel Studios over at Marvel Studio head, Kevin Fiege is relishing

game of chess he's presided over an unbroken string of hits as marvelous dominated the box office the release of iron man back in two thousand and eight and does he feel confident with his strategic power play? You bet he does. These are the two biggest names in the superhero business Dc Comics and Marvel and they are staring each other down again as they have for more than fifty years. Just like a couple of comic book characters themselves, someone is going to have to give someone is going to blink if both movies are released on the same day, this is going to split audiences, and that could spell disaster at the box office for both studios Sugihara frets over the

social media explodes with DC and Marvel fans duking it out over which movie should yield to the other. Finally, it's Sugihara that Blix, Kevin fight smiles. His movie Captain America, civil war, will hold on which release date Man versus Superman have to find a new date cup how how indeed, just another day in the long running feud between Marvel and DC this episode of business wars. Brought to you by the Simpsons on Disney plus the Simpson This is one of the longest running and most award winning series in history, and you can stream the first thirty seasons of the Simpsons and so much more right. Now, when you subscribe to Disney plus in the USA,.

From Wondery, this is business wars, I'm David Brown. If you listen to our path series, you've heard about the outside person, they drove rivalries between Netflix and HBO. Nike and Adidas will be exploring other epic battles in coming weeks, like Coke versus Pepsi and lift taking on uber. But for the next six Roads were going to take you inside the real and mythical world of the comic industry. Now,

begin episode. One origin stories, DC, comics and Marvel are the biggest names in superhero business they've been landing blows on each other for nearly five decades. A little lie the eternal struggle between Batman and the Joker you might say, but what started as a war for the minds of mostly adolescent hardcore comic book. Readers has asked it into a multibillion dollar. Epic battle, that's being waged in boardrooms on social media, any movie theaters, where the seats trembled from the sound of the superheroes blasting one another with their many super powers, the bottom line is colorful comic book heroes are everywhere and they are big business. Maybe you were one of the millions who caught the black Panther movie recently on its way to a record US opening. That's a marvel film by the way, or maybe you've already bought your ticket for the dead pool, sequel, or maybe you,

consume your spandex wearing heroes on tv, where, like the multiplexes, these characters also dominate we're talking about the flash, Supergirl agents of shield that vendors arrow. The list goes on and on and believe me fans pick sides DC versus Marvel. Comic books aren't just part of mainstream pop culture. They are pop culture. Superheroes have burst out of the damp basements and clicky comic book stores to take over the world in twenty seventeen alone movies starring like book, characters accounted for five of the top ten highest money making films of the year. That's saying something.

But it certainly wasn't always this way. How did marvel and DC fight their way to the top? And how did comic books go from a niche hobby catering, mostly the kids, to dominating the pop culture landscape, To understand this evolution, we got go back to early 1960s the space race. It is well underway, is John Glenn becomes the first American to orbit the earth. Chubby checker has just launched a dance craze with something called the twin. And a young handsome president is just claimed. The White House DC is on top thanks to this guy Superman. I still don't speak English. Actually, let's go even

Further back you see DC had introduced the american superhero back in nineteen. Thirty, eight, with the publication of the first Superman story. The character was created by a couple of Nerdy Cleveland, kids name, Jerry, Siegel and Joe Schuster. They had tried for four long years to sell the characters, a comic strip, but were rejected by Matt, pretty much every publisher. Finally, Dc Box character to run in the new magazine, it was putting together called action comics the creator, we're paid all of one hundred and thirty dollars Superman quickly, became the biggest selling things since, but you know the real sliced bread. In fact, he became so popular actually get his own brand of sliced bread, a million people online New York streets to see the annual Thanksgiving Day parade with a series of enormous invaded, began, resenting, famous historical on screen, but now that sales of his magazine soon, climbed to a million copies merchandise. Clogged shelves,

Superman Balloon flew in the nineteen thirty nine Macy's Thanksgiving Day parade the people who Randy's the time didn't have much personal interest in comics, but they did have a little interest in making money, and they could see Superman was filling the coffers like nothing before they commissioned more costumed heroes. And in nineteen thirty, nine along came Batman swinging from rooftops and soon after wonder, woman started lasso in bad guys. Dc's dominance continued for two more decades: the popularity of superheroes Abd and flowed, but DC had whether the downturns in large part because Superman never went out of style. They don't call in the man of steel for nothing which brings us back to the nineteen sixties. Superman sells an impressive eight hundred ten thousand copies per issue and Dc. Seemingly, has it all the best talent, the stretch?

noticeable, an merchandise, Obel superhero characters out there, an cushy corporate office, in Midtown Manhattan skyscraper, clad in gold literally Marvel is around there also based in Midtown but their operation is a bit more lean. Shall we in fact the publisher basically one full time: employee, his name who is Stanley, perhaps you've heard of him, The legendary Stanley would go on to become like the Rico, Fellini of Comic books and as synonymous with Marvel as Walt Disney is with the company he founded you've probably seen him in one of his requisite cameos. In today's Marvel movies, there is tall and lank. With receding, hairline, a graying, mustache, tinted glasses and that boyish twinkle in his eye. But in one thousand nine hundred and sixty well he's not a legend yet he's just some poor.

Club writer and editor toiling away in the low class funny book business churning out hundreds of mostly forget tales of romance horror and the wild West, Marvel at this point isn't really a superhero company. Are they been founded as one back in one thousand nine hundred and thirty nine, like a lot of comic book publishers. They were born to chase the success of Superman, their first comic book back in Nine thirty nine was called Marvel comics number one and it featured the debut of two super powered characters: one was the Submariner mariner powerful undersea and then there was the human torch, an Android, with the ability to burst into flames. Both were moderately popular, but the company's biggest early superhero success was Captain America. He burst on the newsstands in nineteen, forty one with a provocative covers showing the star,

avengers socking Hitler in the chops, but after a few his readers, grew tired of all its superheroes and Marvel turned to other genres in marvel nearly went out of business in the 1950s when it suddenly lost its distributor. The company responsible for getting its magazines to new stands for sale. The company's owner was forced to fire near everyone, everyone that is except one writer Stanley, maybe that had something do with the fact that Lee was related to the owner after graduating from high school in nineteen, thirty, nine Lee was looking for work. His uncle came to him looks Dan. I think I gotta leave for your cousins. Husband runs a publishing company over on 42nd, St Publishing hot as sure beats working as an office boy at a pants factory.

Maybe yeah. I like that idea. He started as an errand boy, fetching sandwiches and refilling ink wells for the artist soon he found himself in charge of the whole place, The editor quit suddenly in nineteen forty one and Lee was made editor by default at all of eighteen years old. By the way the new gig forced him to be all things for. The company Its operations sometimes achieved, shall we say comic proportions like when visitors would come to the office. Excuse me, young man, would you know where I could find the editor Mister Lee the visitor would be talking to MR the though he could be excused for not knowing the kid in the reception area dressed in sneakers and a sweatshirt was not an errand boy, but artist in editor. In chief to the response, like he's the errand boy, of course, not

Just a minute, sir, all telling me here Marvel comics. How may I direct your call? Can you please tell the man in the lobby that left for sorry. Do it please? The visitor would then leave unsure if he ever meet the mysterious editor by one thousand nine hundred and sixty Stanley is feeling burnout out mean he can only pence so many formulaic juvenile stories. In fact, he feels like he's wasting his life Lee dreams of writing the great american novel. That's why he uses a pen, name Stanley.

In his comic book, work he's saving his real name Stanley Lieber for his masterpiece, maybe someday. Maybe it's time to go, write that book. He thinks or do anything else really I mean comics comics are low prestige, business, they are considered suitable. Only for small children are mentally deficient adults Lee, even ashamed to admit to others what he does for a living. So that's it. He finally resolve that tomorrow, tomorrow he's going to walk into the marbles office and quit after more than twenty years Stan Lee is going to walk away from comics for good and then something unexpected happens. The next day at the office before he can offer his resignation Marvel's owner, tells him something and that something will change the course of comic book history and pop culture, history,

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Businesses have to handle millions of visitors, update inventory or the latest news in an instant and word off the mini scary security threats of the inter, so, whether you need to stream live events handle black Friday traffic or simply provide a safe, reliable experience vastly can help see how fast we can help your teams at Basf. We dot com, Slash B, W, that's F, a S. T l y dot com, Slash B W, So What does Stanley here that day, that makes him reconsider, quitting? Well, it's something that would get Marvel back on its feet and put it on the path to become the International Power

now it is today, and the irony is, it goes back to Dc Dc's debut of Superman back in one thousand, nine hundred and thirty eight had launched a massive superhero boom, but by about a decade later, the superpowered had fallen out of favor and audiences instead turned to genres, just like certain genres today, one day, zombies are hot. The next day you can't give away and undead court, but in nineteen fifty six DC decided to test the popularity of superheroes. Again they released a revamped version of the speedster hero, the Flash and Eureka. It was a surprise hit so DC soon followed with other updated characters.

New super hero boom was upon Us D. C's. Most ambitious title, however, comes in nineteen. Sixty folks in DC have a brilliant brainstorm that, if kids liked one super hero in a book, why not give them. More like seven. So an editor takes many of DC's biggest names, Superman, wonder, woman, green lantern and combines two one. Super team three of America, but combined dragon power of the man of steel and the cosmic crusader, but Wingert Avenger and the king of the sea, the tiny titan and a star all working together for guard against people lies. The justice league

The Justice League of America Comic is a smash. It makes DC. The richest superhero company, even richer, now. Here's something you need to know about marbles, founder and owner talked about Stanley's boss. His name is Martin Goodman and he's a businessman. First, a comic book fan one His greatest skill is seeing a trend in capitalizing on it. Goodman once summed up his business strategy. Like this

If you get a title, the catches on and then add a few more you're in for a nice profit. Here we are so good men's, always looking for a breakout titles and you can copy that's weird D. C's justice league comes in one day. The marble founders out on the golf course with an executive from rival DC comics, probably some posh country club on Long island couple of hours outside

Patton. The two were shanking balls discussing the biz, so how's everything over at DC. Pretty great. We just introduced this new title that selling like gangbusters huh. What is it? It's called the Justice League. It combines most of our current superhero characters into one team, the kids love it. They can't wait to slap down there. Dimes you don't say fun story. It's probably bunk, though Goodman says he never played golf in his life. More likely, Goodman finds out about the Justice league success by leaning on his industry contacts or from a spy within the distributor. However, he actually found out Goodman sees dollar signs. He is determined to capitalize on the success of DC's new title. In the same way, he tried to draft off Superman back in nineteen, thirty, nine, he

choose excitedly back to the office and summons stand. 'cause he's got a job for his editor, but at this moment Stanley has something else on his mind. Ah stand there, you are hey, come into my office. A second I've got something I want you to work on. Ok, Mister, Goodman. I've been wanting to talk to you as well. Listen I've been thinking and I feel it yeah yeah yeah standing in a minute. I've just found out that DC is got a new title. That's flying off the stand right by Stan. Could you come up with a team?

a team of superheroes, like DC's justice league? You could use our old heroes like Submariner human torch. Maybe captain America that'll save you from having to dream up any new characters. Okay, let me think about it. Lee leave the office torn his head, swirling a bit it's good month, lucky day and ultimately, a lucky day for all superhero fans. Remember Stanley had it resolved to quit just the day before.

But when he witnesses Goodmans enthusiasm for this new title well, he delays walking away for at least twenty four hours. These torn he's approaching forty years old and he can feel his youth slipping away and with it the opportunity to work in any other field. Besides these stupid comic books, what respectable company would ever hire him when all he's got his twenty years of writing this dreck under his belt. Well, that night leave pours his heart out to his wife. Joan Joan is supportive, but then He says something somewhat unexpected. You know Stan. If Martin wants you to create a new group of superheroes, this could be a chance for you to do it you've always wanted to do. You could dream up plots that have more depth and substance to them and create

characters who have interesting personalities, I'm just saying people who speak like real people. Her words change history. Lee decides to give this new superhero group at Marvel at least one shot and, as his wife suggests, he's going to do this comic book. His way by God never mind what DC is doing with the justice league. He burns inside to do a comic book with more depth. More maturity, Dc Dc is for kids Stan thinks he vows to make his superhero book for an older.

Smarter, savvier reader. Well, in the next year, nineteen sixty one the result of his efforts hits newsstands and it would turn out to be like nothing comic book readers had ever seen. It would create what we now know as the Marvel Universe. It's a comic called the fantastic four, a Sci FI tinge tale about a group of adventurers with a dysfunctional dynamic who accidentally gaining credible powers, the comical change. The way superhero stories are told from that point forward and it'll also unleash an era of unprecedented creativity that witness the creation of dozens of new many of whom now have their own movie franchises and for Marvel's rival the mighty DC. Well, it will turn into a body blow from which they will spend

decades recovering. I hope you enjoy this episode business wars. Please subscribe on Apple, podcast, teacher in p r one over every year. Listening right now, you'll find a link on the episode notes, just tap or swipe of, cover art you'll, also see some offers from our sponsors and we hope you'll support our show by supporting them. Now, if you like what you heard, we'd love for you to give us a five our rating until your friends how to subscribe to, and if you'd like, to share your thoughts about the show or suggest some future biz towards you'd like to hear answer a short survey. One dot com, slash survey, I'm your host David Brown read Tucker author of slugfest inside the epic fifty year battle between Marvel and DC wrote Karen Lowe is our senior producer and editor sound design by Bay Area, sound or shows exact. Producer is Marshall Lewis, and it was create

by her Non Lopez for one three, hey, I'm Dan Rubenstein, the host of the wonder. You show sports wars this week we start a new five episode series on the battle between two of the greatest players to ever catch a football or talk trash, Jerry, Rice versus Dion Sanders, one loved, only football, the other loved only himself. They were like in one way, though, both men hated each other's guts to listen to Dionne versus Jerry and other great stories subscribe now to sports wars from one three